"Peter the Great" leaves, questions remain

203
"Peter the Great" leaves, questions remain

So, on April 25 of this year, just three months ago, when the first wave of noise about the Eagles arose, I published my opinion on this topic. TARK "Peter the Great" - who said it's time to landfill?

Then it was very difficult to understand how events would really unfold, but these three months showed that colleagues from TASS have more informed sources than all the other media that wrote and spoke on this topic. And the TASS material turned out to be correct: the heavy nuclear cruiser Peter the Great will indeed be written off after the repair of the Admiral Nakhimov is completed.



All the dreams that the Russian fleet there will be two such ships, dispelled like haze over the ocean.


Admiral Valentin Selivanov, former chief of staff of the Russian Navy, gave this assessment of what is happening:

“Each ship has a service life. “Peter the Great” is now 34 years old. This is the normal life of a ship. If such a decision is made, then there is nothing to object to. It is better to build a new frigate or cruiser than to restore this one. Over the years, all control systems weapons, pipelines are outdated. If such a decision is made, then it is justified.

Let me quote from the article above:

“...on our pages, we quite often talked about how these ships can be of real benefit in the event of a conflict. Moreover, at one time, when analyzing the repair of Nakhimov, I spoke out in the sense that it would be nice to reinforce the frankly poor capabilities of the Pacific Fleet with a ship whose salvo power would be about 50% of all the capabilities of the Pacific Fleet.

A curtain? Almost yes.

In addition, in that article, I unwittingly missed one point. More precisely, it was said about the human factor, but not quite in that direction. I said yes, the crew of the Peter the Great was about XNUMX people. And this quantity could be used to equip several frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov type. Seven, to be exact.


I confess, I completely forgot that for the "Admiral Nakhimov" we not only have a crew, but there is nowhere to get it from. Of course, our higher naval educational institutions can provide a certain number of specialists, but these will be specialists without work and service experience.

Hypothetically, it would be possible to break the crew of Peter the Great into two parts, leave one on the ship, send the second to the Nakhimov and add graduates and specialists gathered from other ships. Rocketeers, signalmen, specialists of radar posts could be taken from the crew of the same "Moscow", for example.

But this would mean that we would have two ships with inferior crews, that's all. It is clear that tomorrow it seems that you won’t go into battle, but who knows how everything will turn out in general?

As a result, the crew from the Peter the Great has already been transferred to the Admiral Nakhimov and is preparing for the tests. Some part was left on the "Peter the Great" to ensure the survivability of the ship.

"Admiral Nakhimov" is at the final stage of modernization at "Sevmash". Mooring trials of the ship are currently underway, and the cruiser should start sea trials in December 2023. The return of the ship to the fleet is scheduled for 2024. This was previously announced by the head of Sevmash, Mikhail Budnichenko.


In general, the situation is strange. The Admiral Nakhimov, which is 10 years older than the Peter the Great and has not sailed since 1997, will become the flagship of the Russian fleet based in the Northern Fleet. Whom he will restrain there and from whom he will protect our borders - of course, that is another question, but I repeat, in the Pacific Ocean this ship would look much more expedient.

But alas, no.

Here such a vile thought creeps into my head that Nakhimov is being transferred to the Northern Fleet precisely because there are factories nearby, where, if necessary, the ship will be “finished”.

It is clear that 9 years of service at the dawn of foggy youth and 26 years of waiting for repairs are not seeds. For a quarter of a century, the ship was kept “at the minimum wage”, and now, even if you have killed 200 rubles or so for its modernization, of course, you should not expect that everything will work as it should. This is too optimistic.

How justified is this at all? I'm not here to judge.

Many today say that "Peter the Great" is everything.


The ship is in a condition approximately similar to the condition of the Admiral Kuznetsov, maybe a little better. For many (including me) it was a very unpleasant discovery that the resource of the 34-year-old ship was almost completely exhausted. And there is no point in trying to modernize it, it's easier to write it off.

Here's a question for those who care so much about the notorious "presence in the DMZ", "flag demonstrations" and other rubbish: well, is all this, your favorite ostentatiousness, so important? Here, if you please ... They demonstrated, showed, were present. Not a single combat operation in 34 years (except for the capture of as many as three boats of Somali pirates, a worthy deed for the largest non-aircraft carrier in the world) service, not a single missile launch at real targets - and that's it, the ship is scrapped.

Excuse me, how was it necessary to demonstrate and be present? However, everything is on the track record. Thousands of miles were wound on propellers, various exercises took place, some tasks were performed, the results of which were given awards and titles.

And now that's all?

Meanwhile, if you look at the other side, the Americans have Ticonderoga-class cruisers there.


They are not driven to the other side of the world, as they drove "Peter the Great" to show the Colombians and Venezuelans our strength and power. They just stand at their bases, undergo maintenance and repairs, of course, taking into account the service life. They are also written off.

For example, the cruiser Shiloh, which was laid down in 1987 and commissioned in 1992, will be decommissioned as planned in 2039. And his fellow Vicksburg, which entered service in the same 1992, will be decommissioned in 2041. Accepted by the fleet a year later, in 1993, the Cape St. George and Vella Gulf will be decommissioned in 2044.

That is, almost on average after 50 years.


And now we have a ship that has been laid up for a quarter of a century awaiting repairs, will be replaced by another ship, which is 10 years younger than the replacement. Well, one is no stranger to our miracles, but everything looks rather doubtful.


Well, "Peter the Great" could not work out the entire resource in 34 years. I can’t believe it, even though he spent half his life on dubious campaigns. And replacing it with the Nakhimov does not look like something logical, especially since, as already mentioned, one such ship deployed to the Pacific Ocean will double the existing grouping of ships there in terms of the power of a missile salvo.

But it is perfectly believed that the priorities have simply changed. And there is simply no money for "Peter". Now, if you go from this side, then everything is very logical. There was (you can already say in the past tense) "Peter the Great", which was worn out by demonstrations of the flag and hunting for boats of Somali pirates, which really was time to put on a major overhaul. And it all looked fine, because for 2-4 years the ship could be taken to the dock, in its place was the Admiral Nakhimov, for the overhaul and modernization of which 200 billion rubles were spent.

With this money, I note, it would be possible to build at least 6 frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov type, which I consider very decent ships. SIX. That is, if you then upgrade and repair Peter the Great in the same way, then the fleet, it turns out, lost TWELVE new frigates.


That's pretty decent power, by the way. If all these 12 hypothetical frigates were to be driven to the Pacific Fleet, I am 100% sure that the Japanese would moderate their ardor a little. And the Chinese, on the contrary, would have taken it with a feeling of deep satisfaction, since everything that looks against Japan looks for China. Although China does not have allies, they would like such an alignment as a powerful Pacific Fleet.

But what can I say now, we all understand perfectly well that there will not even be two cruisers. The money that could have gone to repair "Peter the Great" has long been burned in the crucible of the NWO. And there is nowhere to compensate them, there is nothing to talk about. Well, except maybe try to type in sms, as it is now fashionable.

There is no money and it is not expected. Therefore, "Peter the Great" will go to waste, but what will happen to "Nakhimov" is a question.

It can be assumed that at first the ship will not go anywhere at all or go far from the repair plants, since everyone understands perfectly well what 26 years of standing is. I wildly hope that the repair of Nakhimov was done differently from that of Moskva in terms of quality, so there are some chances of success. But the overall picture is puzzling.

And in any case, this huge ship will be doomed to stand near the quay wall. Precisely because there will again be no money for campaigns and demonstrations. In this regard, we are clearly returning to the nineties, when out of the entire Russian fleet, a couple of BODs depicted something like that in the waters of the World Ocean, fortunately, they had enough for long-distance trips.

In our case, answering Comrade Admiral Selivanov, I would like to say: yes, we understand everything that there will be neither a couple of cruisers of the Orlan project, nor a dozen new frigates. There is no money, and there is nothing to hold on to.

"Admiral Nakhimov" is almost coming, "Peter the Great" is actually leaving, questions remain.

And the main question here is: what to do with the Pacific Fleet, which today, well, simply does not look against the backdrop of the Japanese. The course taken by the country's leadership has given rise to many unfriendly states, which, although they do not have any special claims against us, except for a showdown with Ukraine, they still exist. And separately in this cohort is Japan, which is not only declared an unfriendly state, but it also has a wagon with a trolley against us.


And the fleet. Well, a very decent fleet capable of dispersing the Pacific Flotilla in one salvo of all URO destroyers. Good destroyers. And on these scales, you still have to throw something.

Now those who have been reading us for a long time will say: you yourself stood up for frigate corvettes, a mosquito fleet and all that, being against aircraft carrier cruisers! Yes of course. And now I advocate, because rather than having three huge black holes in the form of "Peter", "Nakhimov" and "Kuznetsov", patched-patched and absorbing money precisely at the speed of this space object, it is better to have two dozen new ships of a smaller class. We still know how to build them, and a new ship is a new ship ...

But what is the use of these arguments if there is no money?

It can be assumed that the repair of Kuznetsov will now stop / move to the right indefinitely, and everything has already been announced with the repair of Peter. One can only hope that the repair of the Nakhimov is really a repair and the ship can still serve.

And one can only dream of new corvettes-frigates. It is clear that no money will be allocated for them, no matter how sorry you are.

And it turns out that the situation is returning several years ago, when the flagship of the Russian Navy will proudly hang out as part of the Northern Fleet, guarding the Arctic borders from no one knows who (well, I can’t imagine an American AUG in the ice of the Arctic Ocean, there’s not enough imagination) and with an indistinct promising to come to the aid of the Pacific Fleet within a couple of weeks, depending on the ice situation on the Northern Sea Route.

It is clear that Nakhimov has nothing to do in the Black and Baltic Seas, so the only place where he will really be appropriate with his missiles is the Pacific Fleet. But the ship has already been enrolled in the Northern Fleet, so there is nothing to talk about either.

Naturally, the command of the Russian fleet was thinking and deciding something before taking such steps. It is a pity that we do not know all the nuances, but in general it becomes clear that many naval programs will be curtailed in favor of the ground operation in Ukraine. There's nothing to be done about it. And in principle, the replacement of one old ship with another, older, but repaired one, will not affect the combat capability of our fleet critically, all the more so, if it were not for our submarine forces, talking about the combat capability of the fleet in general would be even sadder.

So what's most in this stories it is not the cutting into metal of Peter the Great that causes negative, but the fact that they will not cut metal for new ships. And that the Russian shipbuilding industry will now begin to feel the same nineties, when there was something to build, but there was nothing to pay for.

Alas, this is the reality of our days.
203 comments
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  1. -12
    19 July 2023 04: 15
    In this case, it's cheaper to build a new one!!!!
    ..........
    1. +38
      19 July 2023 04: 33
      Quote: Fedor M
      In this case, it's cheaper to build a new one!!!!

      In our case, we see how they dispose of what is impossible to create today - they didn’t come out with a mind.
      So isn't it easier to dispose of the EBN legacy?!
      Recently, it has begun to cause many problems ... There is less and less time left for a normal, decent life ...
      Moreover, this legacy is rotting and dragging the once powerful, industrialized state to the dump...
      Maybe this is happening because the former laboratory assistants suddenly become accountants, directors of LLCs, and after that they become vice-premiers without showing themselves, without showing the fruits of their labors, “without drinking, without smoking their last cigarette”?!
      1. -16
        19 July 2023 05: 52
        In a real battle, Peter was no more useful than Moscow. 5-6 PKR on board and arrived
        1. +32
          19 July 2023 06: 33
          Quote: Clever man
          In a real battle, Peter was no more useful than Moscow. 5-6 PKR on board and arrived

          And how much use is Ticonderoga / Burke in a real fight? Three hundred kg. centuries on an inflatable boat and... scrapped.

          To Article:
          each ship has a service life. “Peter the Great” is now 34 years old. This is the normal life of a ship. If such a decision is made, then there is nothing to object to ...

          There is something to be said here! If there were a dozen and a half destroyers in the Navy, then they would probably agree, but there are very few ships of the oceanic zone, to put it mildly. Soon corvettes will become the main combat units ... Peter, after a major modernization, could easily serve for another 15-20 years, just during this time, I would like to hope that a full-fledged change would come to the Fleet.
          But this would mean that we would have two ships with inferior crews,
          wassat well, yes, one ship is better, and "even better" - not a single one, but what a savings ....
          killing 200 rubles for its modernization

          Yes, this is at the exchange rate for today - a miserable $ 2,2 yards, or a little more than the cost of building one Burke, which, something tells me, is no match for TARK ...
          With this money, I note, it would be possible to build at least 6 frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov type, which I consider

          Yes, yes, "very sensible", only it doesn't work that way. And instead of one giant 26-kt. warship in five to seven years, one 5-kt will come ...
          even though he spent half his life on dubious campaigns

          He did not "drag", but carried the service.
          And how else to gain invaluable experience for the crew of the ship? Maybe I will surprise the author, but only on long autonomous trips. Nothing else has been invented yet.
          when the flagship of the Russian Navy will proudly hang out as part of the Northern Fleet, guarding the Arctic borders from no one knows who (well, I can’t imagine an American AUG in the ice of the Arctic Ocean, I don’t have enough imagination)

          I cannot comment further.
          It would be better if the author wrote on everyday everyday topics - his strong point. It’s not worth talking about the fleet and aviation more ...
          1. +12
            19 July 2023 07: 22
            Naturally, the command of the Russian fleet was thinking and deciding something before taking such steps.

            laughing laughing laughing today one commander tomorrow another, today the fleet is subordinate to the commanders of the districts - tomorrow the commander-in-chief of the Navy, one, then another ...
            1. +22
              19 July 2023 07: 47
              Debate about. that the fleet did not stop in Russia and the USSR never and will continue forever. In the USSR, it was especially hot between supporters of aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines. The submariners won, although the number of accidents with our nuclear submarines exceeded all others combined. But even in the surface fleet, not everything was smooth sailing. Remember only the inexplicable decommissioning in 2001 of the new nuclear reconnaissance ship SSV-33 "Ural" 12 years after launching !!! And this is literally on the eve of leaving the Lourdes base in Cuba in 2002.
              Or how all six unique spacecraft of the Cosmonaut Yu. Gagarin type were abandoned. Two of them remained in Odessa in Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR and rotted as unnecessary. You can reproach Svidomo about the "dog in the manger", but four others have rotted in our home ports in the same way.
              1. +7
                19 July 2023 10: 05
                Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                inexplicable decommissioning in 2001 of the new nuclear reconnaissance ship SSV-33 "Ural" 12 years after launching !!!

                And why is there something inexplicable? Everything is very understandable! One ideological communist named Gorbachev proposed to another ideological communist, the second Grand Marshal of the USSR Yazov, to dismiss one and a half year old students in the reserve, all at once .... you see, mothers complain very much! And the third ideological communist, Groy Soyuz, Admiral of the Fleet Chernavin was afraid to even hint at the inadmissibility of such a step! As a result, ordinary sailors with the best tenth grade education in the world could not cope with the high-tech equipment of the Ural .... there are no specialists and there is no ship!
                Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                abandoned all six unique space ships

                The same story, why do we need space ships if "Sea Launch has become" our everything?
                1. +3
                  19 July 2023 20: 18
                  The liberal swamp that has clung to power for the past 30 years has not understood that far from everything can be bought for money, and that our country, thanks to their efforts, is no longer able to build such ships and replace Petya with nothing at all. If our country was already building new URO destroyers, then the write-off of Peter would be justified, and without this, this is another crime and a betrayal of our oligarchic-liberal government.

                  Yes, the cruiser Pyotr Velikiy is outdated for a long time, but it is not worn out, it needs an average repair with modernization and it will cost much less than the repair of Nakhimov. But after such a repair, we will have two ships, and this will significantly strengthen our fleet. If you bring Kuzya to mind, then together with Nakhimov and Petya, plus a couple of BODs, plus a couple of Boreevs and a couple of Ashes, you get a ready-made AUG capable of much.
                  1. -4
                    20 July 2023 13: 15
                    As a liberal, I'm wondering who you in the leadership of the power bloc (not even the Navy) consider to be such in the last 10-15 years? Who's got the power there?
                    It seems to me that there are more questions on management than answers, and the liberals would just not interfere.
                    1. 0
                      20 July 2023 14: 14
                      Quote: Jonny_Su
                      Liberals would just not interfere.

                      And who are our liberals?
                      1. +2
                        20 July 2023 14: 32
                        It would be quite in the spirit of liberalism to appoint a committee on the Navy in the State Duma, to independently verify programs, environmental protection and interaction with industry. Greater transparency and elimination of conflicts of interest. The formation of a concept (like the "white book" of the British) coming from real life, and not for all the good things in the sea, as it is now. The strengthening of the Navy, the separation of the Black Sea Fleet from the district - not to say that it is liberal, but it seems reasonable.
                    2. -2
                      20 July 2023 21: 58
                      As a liberal, I'm wondering who you in the leadership of the power bloc (not even the Navy) consider to be such in the last 10-15 years? Who's got the power there?

                      ALL the former and current ministers of defense and their deputies, the heads of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, clung to power, and they all support and supported the liberals
                      It seems to me that there are more questions on management than answers, and the liberals would just not interfere.

                      For 30 years, the liberals have already helped the authorities, enough is no longer needed.
                      1. osp
                        +1
                        21 July 2023 03: 25
                        And how many new Ka-27PS/PL and Ka-29 helicopters have been built and handed over to the fleet over the past 30 years?
                        As I understood zero! No one!
                      2. 0
                        17 August 2023 10: 16
                        Liberalism is still the absence of state intervention in the economy. Like "the market will settle everything" and all that. State. sector in the economy is now the largest and has only increased over the past 30 years. Therefore, those who make political and economic decisions in our country can be called various bad words, but definitely not "liberals"
                  2. -1
                    20 July 2023 14: 13
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    our country, thanks to their efforts, is no longer able to build such ships

                    Do such ships need to be built?
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    the write-off of Peter would be justified, and without this, this is another crime and a betrayal of our oligarchic-liberal government.

                    And Peter write off???
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    If you bring Kuzya to mind, then together with Nakhimov and Petya, plus a couple of BODs, plus a couple of Boreevs and a couple of Ashes, you get a ready-made AUG capable of much.

                    Something you stuffed too much into the AUG!
                    1. 0
                      20 July 2023 22: 16
                      Do such ships need to be built?

                      Has our country started building Burke-level URO destroyers? Or do you propose to go to the RTO Buyan-M in the ocean zone on the BS?
                      And Peter write off???

                      And that the TASS agency is lying? Or do they check the reaction for Petya's write-off by uploading the news several times?
                      Something you stuffed too much into the AUG!

                      And who is to blame that the current government for 30 years has not been able to build a single ship of the aircraft carrier or destroyer class? Will you have to form AUGs from Soviet ships built 30 years ago, or do you propose to send numerous mock-ups from exhibitions?
                  3. -1
                    21 July 2023 21: 26
                    It's all the fault of the capitalists. So more accurately and reflect the essence.
            2. +8
              19 July 2023 12: 33
              No decisions were made on the TARK "Peter the Great", the ship is in the combat composition of the Northern Fleet and performs tasks as intended.
              On Tuesday, July 18, a source in the Northern Fleet told RIA Novosti.
              https://flot.com/2023/СеверныйФлот24/
              1. +9
                19 July 2023 20: 26
                Yes, Petya is part of the Federation Council, the AP is simply probing public opinion for a reaction to another crime, this time Petya's write-off.
                Losing 300 billion dollars (that is, 27 trillion rubles) by liberals is not a crime, but about the 200 billion spent on modernizing the cruiser, all liberals have been howling for several years.
                1. +3
                  19 July 2023 23: 54
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  Losing 300 billion dollars (i.e. 27 trillion rubles) by liberals is not a crime

                  Why be surprised here, no one answered for the fact that Russians were killed in the Donbass for 8 years, and the Nazis were armed by the West. No one explained why, having recognized the referendum in Crimea, they did not recognize the referendums in Donetsk and Luhansk, why they did not support the "Russian Spring", when the entire south-east of Ukraine was waiting for Russia. On the other hand, they recognized the farce with the elections, which was carried out by those who staged the anti-constitutional coup in Kyiv. Is it because, in essence, the same anti-constitutional coup took place in our country in 1991? All the oddities with the same SVO, which is more like raising the rating of our bourgeois power on the one hand, and on the depletion of the Soviet margin of safety on the other. When our arsenals are empty, and the reduced and optimized military-industrial complex cannot compete with the mobilized economy of the West, the lost 300 billion will seem like flowers. The bad guys will offer to negotiate on the terms of the West, as an act of "good will", in the name of peace, humanism and tolerance ... In fact, our rich people should not bomb their junk acquired by overwork with "vigorous bombs", which is stored in this very West.
                  The edge of stupidity and betrayal will be seen more clearly if we remember that we have capitalism, and this has long been a global, planetary system, with its leader and master. No matter how our bourgeoisie puff out their cheeks, depicting "butting" with their masters, they will remain their henpecked. To paraphrase the classic, it is impossible to live in capitalism and be free from its laws (not created for the benefit of Russia). There is only one way out, a way out of this alien pole of power, the creation (revival) of an independent pole of power, which can only be renewed socialism.
                  Without this, one cannot save a great country, which became a space and nuclear superpower due to independence from the Rothschilds and similar ghouls.
                  The fleet began to be destroyed long ago and purposefully, under the howl in the media of the uselessness of aircraft carriers and the cutting of the most dangerous boats of the 941 project for the United States at that time. How the fleet was sold and destroyed is generally a huge topic, and the disposal of "Peter" to the already two ruined cruisers with unique hulls is a natural result of the stupidity and betrayal of those who are more comfortable trading in raw materials and selling off what is still left of the Soviet heritage.
              2. +2
                21 July 2023 03: 25
                No decisions have been made on the Pyotr Veliky TARK, the ship is in the combat composition of the Northern Fleet and is performing tasks as intended.
                On Tuesday, July 18, a source in the Northern Fleet told RIA Novosti.
                https://flot.com/2023/СеверныйФлот24/

                Well, Kherson is a Russian city and we will never give it up.
          2. +14
            19 July 2023 08: 14
            I agree with you, dokkor18, our bloggers and Skomorokhovs, including, have developed the habit of talking with a smart face about what they don’t understand anything, and consider this the ultimate truth, by the way, the latest news from the Ministry of Defense, TARK will be modernized and returned to service.
          3. +11
            19 July 2023 08: 24
            “Peter the Great” is now 34 years old.
            We have tugboats built in the 90s, they are still working and successfully, and also in the 70s ..
            1. 0
              20 July 2023 00: 14
              So this is not from a good life. There is nothing to be proud of here.
            2. -1
              20 July 2023 16: 00
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              We have tugboats built in the 90s, they are still working and successfully, and also in the 70s ..

              and what is so new that has appeared in the towing structure for 30-50 years? Nothing! what for then to change them? but in the military and world fleet over the same years of innovation, a dime a dozen, and most of them are not backward compatible ....
          4. +4
            19 July 2023 14: 41
            Quote: Doccor18
            It would be better if the author wrote on everyday everyday topics - his strong point

            Elections are in a year, so what else will he write))
          5. 0
            19 July 2023 15: 40
            It’s stupid to shove so many resources into one ship, everyone loves prodigies, but there’s no sense in them
            1. -2
              19 July 2023 21: 18
              here the problem is not only in the wunderwaffe, but there are also problems with 22350, they cannot be transferred along the internal rivers of the "EGTS RF",

              1) There is an "EGTS RF" (inland rivers of the Russian Federation), where the minimum dimensions of the locks are 135m * 14,3m * 4m (l * w * o), this is the mass of the vessel from 5 kt to 7,7 kt.

              2) There are ship projects: 1234, 1241, 21631, 22160, 22800 - they are too small and their capabilities are too curtailed. In BMZ, it is more profitable to install stationary systems together with guided weapons. In the SMZ, it is more profitable to use aircraft and larger warships.

              3) There are ship projects: 11356, 1155, 1164, 20380, 22350 - they are too large and in the event of war they will be locked up in another theater of operations or destroyed during the crossing between the theater of operations, in general, there will be either zero or at least a real maritime conflict .

              4)CONCLUSION: We (RF) need ship classes described by the following formula: "a class of ships of the maximum-maximum weight-dimension but at the same time suitable for transfer along the EGTS of the Russian Federation and the NSR of the Russian Federation, as well as for construction in the depths of the territory of the Russian Federation (in the upper reaches of the EGTS of the Russian Federation)".
              1. +3
                19 July 2023 23: 30
                Gunboats? How will the river fleet function in the DMZ? Have you heard anything about the seaworthiness of the Chukchi? And how many, by the way, weapons will fit on river barges, and what kind? Flares are not weapons, if anything.
                1. -1
                  20 July 2023 15: 33
                  again,
                  Important clarification: final vessel must FLIP according to the EGTS of the Russian Federation, and not FIGHT in the EGTS of the Russian Federation, when transferred, it should occupy "135m*14,3m*4m(l*w*o)", and during a war at sea / ocean, the working draft can be 5m and 10m like the same arly burks, this is easily achieved with small innovations: for example, to implement the bottom HJC not in a stationary form, but in a retractable one, and when transferring it, remove it inside, in general, from an engineering point of view, everything is solved, the only question is collecting analytical calculations, organizing R&D, compiling the correct technical specifications and financing.
          6. 0
            20 July 2023 12: 29
            Quote: Doccor18
            Peter, after a major modernization, could easily serve for another 15-20 years, just during this time, I would like to hope that a full-fledged change would come to the Fleet.

            In order for "Peter" to be able to serve for 15-20 years after repair and modernization, he must first undergo this repair and modernization, which takes from 5 to 8 years and 200-250 billion rubles (hello inflation, even despite some simplification of modernization) ... And what will we have there in 8 years?
            Let's get a look .
            Now the Northern Fleet is already accepting the third frigate pr. 22350, the fourth such frigate "Admiral Isakov" was planned to be delivered in the same year in December, but apparently they decided not to risk it and postponed the delivery of the ship to the Fleet in the first quarter of 2024.
            And already in the same 2024, and already for the Pacific Fleet, the fifth frigate, already pr. 22350.1 (with 32 cells in 4 UKKS) "Admiral Amelko", should be commissioned.
            In 2025, the frigates "Admiral Chichagov" and "Admiral Yumashev" will also be handed over to the Navy.
            In 2026, the Admiral Spiridonov will be built and handed over to the Pacific Fleet.
            It is not yet clear with the deadlines for the delivery of "Admiral Kapitanets" and "Admiral Vysotsky", they have not yet been laid down, although the contracts have been concluded - they are waiting for the release of stocks.
            In addition, the construction of six frigates pr. 22350.1 for the Pacific Fleet is planned at the Amur Shipyard. There will be power plants for these ships, so the construction time should not exceed an average of 5 years ... The first two will probably be built a little longer. But they plan to lay two buildings a year.
            Here is the solution to the issue of new ships for the Pacific Fleet, which the author was so concerned about ...
            In addition, starting this year, it was planned to conclude a contract and lay the foundation stone for the first two large frigates, pr. 22350M, in the new Admiralteisky boathouse. Now nothing is heard about this, but in the conditions of a military conflict this is normal. Although, due to funding problems, they may "transfer to the right" the laying of these new ships.
            and even more so, it would be wild game in the conditions of the war and the growing military spending specifically for the war, to start a gamble with the modernization of "Peter the Great". To lay out three billion dollars (even two billion for a truncated modernization) for the repair and modernization of an old, worn-out, middle-of-the-art repair ship ... which, after all these expenses and titanic efforts, will serve for 15 years ... Sorry, I'd rather use this money and for this (8 years) time I will build SIX frigates pr. and they will serve happily ever after, at least 22350.1 years each.
            In addition, the program for the modernization of the BOD pr. 1155 at the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet continues with the help of repair plants. The ships are also old, and they must be driven into repair and modernization as soon as possible. Do not occupy the capacity of the Petya shipyard, but drive two BODs there and in 5-6 years return to the fleet two modernized "frigates" with updated air defense, 32 cells in the UKKS and 16 X-35 anti-ship missiles each.
            Here it will be according to the state.
            As a result, in terms of money and terms, we will get not one old, but modernized cruiser for 15-20 years, but 6 new frigates for 40 years each, and two modernized large frigates for 15 years each. Instead of one old one, four new ones and two modernized ones.
            How do you like this exchange?
            Quote: Doccor18
            killing 200 rubles for its modernization

            Yes, this is at the exchange rate for today - a miserable $ 2,2 yards,

            It is necessary to count at the rate of 2018, when this allocated amount became known. And the course then floated in the region of 65 - 70 rubles. for $ . And quite recently, the course was just like that, before Nabiulina's somersaults.
            Quote: Doccor18
            And instead of one giant 26-kt. warship in five to seven years, one 5-kt will come ...

            If you lay at each of the two shipyards (and there are already two of them) 1 - 2 frigates per year, then during the modernization of "Peter" you can build 6 frigates for yourself. And upgrade two BODs.

            There is one more consideration.
            Our only aircraft carrier, the Kuznetsov, is coming out of modernization almost simultaneously with the Nakhimov. Of course, they serve together, go out to sea together ... but we don’t have a second AB. But in the AUG order, a sufficient number of frigates 22350, 22350.1 and 1155M will be much more useful than another cruiser, for a price, but sometime later.
            Our decision to modernize nuclear monsters was made in 2014-2015. when it became clear that for many years we would not have the opportunity to build NEW ships of the frigate, destroyer, cruiser class ... That's when the decision was made to modernize all three nuclear Orlans ... and then the decision to modernize the BOD pr. 1155. Just so as not to be completely without ships. The experience of modernizing "Nakhimov" has shown that much more time will be required for each of them (not 5, but 8-9 years), and the cost of such work will be twice as high. And there is only one shipyard for such work, and it can only be upgraded one by one. Hence the logical decision - to limit ourselves to the modernization of one "Nakhimov" in pair with the "Kuznetsov". But the modernization of the BOD, although somewhat late, but justified itself completely. Both in terms and at the cost of such modernization. Therefore, it is desirable to drive through such modernization all the remaining BODs, while the construction of new frigates at two shipyards is swinging and entering rhythmic work.
            Quote: Doccor18
            I cannot comment further.
            It would be better if the author wrote on everyday everyday topics - his strong point. It’s not worth talking about the fleet and aviation more ...

            Totally agree with you . It seems that either an eighth grader ... of the Soviet school wrote, or just a person who is absolutely far from the issues of the Navy and military development in general.
            In order to write articles on the military, especially on specific topics, you need to KNOW the subject. Or at least take an interest in them in good faith.
            1. 0
              21 July 2023 08: 07
              Total 8 frigates of the far sea zone by 2027 (at best) year. For the entire Fleet.
              This is if there are no delays with the GEM and, in general, with financing and production.
              The first modernized 1155M was left without air defense. WHY is he needed? Target.
              Look at the rest of the 1155 after the modernization, how they will be returned to the squad.
              Orlan needs to be modernized. This is an ocean-going ship with high combat power, air defense and anti-aircraft defense. But there is no Kuznetsov. Useless, with an outdated air group, unreliable, capricious boilers.
              1. 0
                21 July 2023 10: 53
                Quote: FRoman1984
                Total 8 frigates of the far sea zone by 2027 (at best) year. For the entire Fleet.

                8 new ones - namely new frigates pr. 22350 \ 22350.1, and a certain number of frigates on the stocks of two shipyards in the two ends of the country ... with the transfer of 2-3 ships annually in the future.
                This is bad ?
                Or do you prefer to get instead by (attention) 2032 (and obviously not earlier) only ONE old but modernized cruiser? And at the same time, only 4 BODs will be modernized in two fleets? Do you understand the price of the issue and the consequences of your desires?
                "Pyotr" will be able to get under repair no earlier than next year - 2024 + 8 years for modernization. If they try very, very hard and reduce the program and the amount of modernization ... maybe 6-7 years - no less. And this pleasure will take $ 2-3 billion (I won’t guess in rubles, taking into account inflation, but no less for sure).
                Is there enough money?
                And then social programs are already being cut ... the ruble collapsed ...
                We don’t fight with ships in Ukraine, we need tanks, artillery, shells, aviation, communications, equipment for the NMD ... Do you think that the Fleet construction programs in such conditions will be reduced, moved to the right or even stopped? And if, in the context of a reduced budget, there is a choice, then I definitely make a choice to continue building frigates, moreover, already at two shipyards and modernizing all the BODs left without it.
                There is simply not enough money for "Peter". Even if they really want it in the towers, in the Navy and the government.
                Two new 22350.1 frigates (32 cells of strike weapons each) and the modernization of one BOD (32 UKKS cells + 16 X-35 anti-ship missiles + the new Shtil or Redut air defense system) will surpass the modernized cruiser in strike power and combat capabilities, but will cost LESS than half the cost of its modernization.
                The arithmetic is simple.
                And if you want big ships - after the first two 22350M we will lay large destroyers / cruisers VI 14 - 16 thousand tons in a new boathouse with a set of weapons no less than that of the Nakhimov, using a power plant on four M90FR gas turbines (27 l / s each). The cost of such destroyers will be cheaper than the modernization (!) of the Nakhimov by half - up to 500 billion dollars.
                Here is an alternative for you.
                We must be guided not by wishes, but by the needs of the Navy, the technical capabilities of Industry and the financial capabilities of the state.
                Quote: FRoman1984
                This is if there are no delays with the GEM and, in general, with financing and production.

                The production capacity (the machine park is new) is quite sufficient to meet the needs of the Fleet's construction under all promising programs. The power plant for 22350 has already been worked out and the industry today produces at least 2 sets per year. When laying frigates at the Amur Shipyard, it will give out more. There are no more technical and technological problems.

                Quote: FRoman1984
                The first modernized 1155M was left without air defense. WHY is he needed? Target.

                He ... they (the BOD was also modernized in the Northern Fleet) remained with their native short-range air defense systems. The air defense system is good, the ammo is great, but only for the near zone. If he goes to the tie from 22350, then for two there will be wonderful air defense, VERY good anti-aircraft defense, 3 (three) helicopters and just wonderful strike capabilities.
                Starting from the second BOD at the Pacific Fleet (and at the Northern Fleet), modernization will be deepened and expanded. In addition to two UKKS, in place of the second tower, two more UKKS will appear on the waist right next to the helicopter hangar, 16 X-35 anti-ship missiles in 4 inclined launchers, "Packet-NK", possibly "Waterfall" PLUR and in addition to the previous near-field air defense system, medium-range air defense systems will appear - either "Shtil", or "Redut".
                Quote: FRoman1984
                Look at the rest of the 1155 after the modernization, how they will be returned to the squad.

                Already a year and a half ago, the Vladivostok Shipyard presented a project for the modernization of the second BOD in the form I mentioned above. They will be like that.
                Quote: FRoman1984
                Orlan needs to be modernized. This is an ocean-going ship with high combat power, air defense and anti-aircraft defense.

                It was modernized, soon for running gear - "Nakhimov".
                Quote: FRoman1984
                But there is no Kuznetsov. Useless, with an outdated air group, unreliable, capricious boilers.

                Fundamental mistake. it is "Kuznetsov" that is more important than the second "Orlan".
                Quote: FRoman1984
                with an outdated air group

                Its easy to change. Instead of the Su-33, the MiG-35SK will be purchased - a very worthy fighter, with an AFAR and a new avionics. MiG-29K \ KUB will remain the same, possibly as drums. It is possible to upgrade the shipborne MiG-29K \ KUB to the level of the MiG-35SK, their airframes are almost the same.
                An aircraft carrier, and mainly an air defense aircraft carrier, we need in the North to cover and ensure the combat deployment of the strategic submarine forces of the Fleet. As a defense against enemy anti-submarine aircraft. This is his main task and it cannot be solved by conventional surface ships. It is for the same purposes that we need in the long term AV of medium VI at the Pacific Fleet.
                And the Nakhimov will be paired with the Kuznetsov, providing an air defense umbrella with its long-range missiles and protecting it from surface and underwater threats. It will be possible to send them to foreign distant shores only in peacetime.
                Quote: FRoman1984
                unreliable, capricious boilers.

                The boilers have been changed. These are very good boilers. They capitalized steam turbines, updated all systems, avionics. It will be practically a new ship in the old hull, with an updated air group.
                Quote: FRoman1984
                "Kuznetsov" is not. Useless

                The Chinese, USA, India, England, France, Italy, Spain and even Turkey categorically disagree with you. Of course, they would be happy to write off our AB for needles, but for themselves they prefer to build, have and use those.
                1. +2
                  21 July 2023 23: 57
                  There is no MiG-35SK, just as there is no serial, working Zhuk-A AFAR.
                  The Design Bureau was not even able to provide it (AFAR) at the time for the Indian tender. And the MiG-35 in the amount of 2 units also arrived without AFAR.
                  So that's where the waste of money is - the ancient "Kuznetsov". Yes, indeed, many countries have aircraft carriers, but they are modern and are being modernized, with modern aircraft and helicopters. So India buys 26 Rafals, not MiGs

                  And why do we need "Kuznetsov", under what doctrine? Why "Peter the Great" will not be able to ensure the deployment of boats? I repeat once again, now we do not and will not have modern PLO and AWACS helicopters, as well as an air group capable of solving problems.

                  To modernize the BOD 1155 and drive it on a leash from 22350, so that, like the "Moscow", they would not be drowned from a subsonic anti-ship missile - this is just in the spirit of the Shoiguv-Serdyukov reforms.
                  And in terms of air defense - let's see how the second one comes out - I don't share your optimism, we live in the wrong country.

                  You probably don’t know, but the problem is not only with gas turbine engines, but also with diesel engines in 22350. There are simply no diesel engines. There is Chinese junk that cannot be put on warships. But they will be put, because there is no way out. More than 1 set in 2 years will not be issued due to the lack of ... everything.

                  There are no frigates on the nozzles of 2 shipyards, there are on one and they cannot lay the next 2 due to lack of space. About the "Amur" plant - bullshit, they will continue to rivet 20385.
                  In terms of firepower and efficiency, Peter will be stronger than all these unfinished BODs combined, Kuznetsov and our entire mosquito fleet. For he will be able to detect and hit such ships without air defense - FIRST.
          7. +4
            21 July 2023 00: 53
            The main difference between Burke in a real battle and Peter or Nakhimov is Berkov 70. And in battle there are an order of magnitude more of them, an order of magnitude greater is the stability and efficiency of such a connection, an order of magnitude greater is the ability of the industry to reproduce ships.
            1. 0
              21 July 2023 11: 19
              Quote: Jonny_Su
              The main difference between Burke in a real battle from Peter or Nakhimov is Berkov 70.

              Quantity almost always beats quality, this is an axiom of naval construction. That is why the number of new frigates (including the "large frigates" pr. 22350M) is much more important for the Russian Navy than the restoration of another powerful but old cruiser.
              That is why China has relied on a numerical increase in the strength of its fleet. You will face off against US+ fleets in the Pacific and for influence over the island nations of Oceania. For the safety of their maritime communications in the Indian Ocean. Therefore, the old English principle "Numbers matter" is especially important for you. And that is why, in addition to continuing the construction of destroyers, you are resuming the construction of modernized frigates.
              Russia is now waging a land war and this is making its own changes.
      2. +13
        19 July 2023 05: 53
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Maybe this happens because former laboratory assistants suddenly become accountants,

        And the former accountants suddenly became "great scientists". Directors of research institutes and design bureaus .. or even the entire Roscosmos. sad
      3. 0
        20 July 2023 06: 29
        The main idea of ​​our time is: "The simpler the better" .... The easiest way is to dispose of the population and bring in a new one.
    2. -5
      19 July 2023 04: 47
      No.
      It is cheaper to repair the old one and not return to the topic of the notorious Soviet heritage. It's time for him to retire.
      1. +8
        19 July 2023 11: 12
        Quote: srelock
        Cheaper to repair the old one and never come back

        You can't argue, it's really cheaper here. Will it be cheaper to defend the Motherland?
        1. -2
          20 July 2023 00: 16
          And how are these cruisers homeland? For 200 billion. Clamping the money of the ground forces could be equipped with new infantry fighting vehicles.
    3. +8
      19 July 2023 05: 01
      Quote: Fedor M
      In this case, it's cheaper to build a new one!!!!
      ..........

      In this case, it makes sense to mothball the ship.
      We have actually eaten away the legacy of the USSR fleet, now only helicopter carriers are on the slipways from similar warships. However, to talk about their identity with a heavy nuclear cruiser, even the tongue does not turn. What awaits us tomorrow, I personally do not know. Therefore, it is better to let it be than to bite your elbows later.
      1. 0
        19 July 2023 21: 38
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        In this case, it makes sense to mothball the ship.

        how do you unpack it then? there is a lot of equipment on it that requires special specialists and workers with experience, there are already huge problems with this, and this way they will become even more ....
    4. -10
      19 July 2023 10: 48
      Quote: Fedor M
      In this case, it's cheaper to build a new one!!!!
      ..........


      What for? In the 21st century, all these past concepts with thousands of crews, when everything is replaced by a couple of MBRs.
    5. 0
      22 July 2023 17: 06
      Are you a shipbuilder? Designer or manufacturer? Do you know the real possibilities of Russian shipyards at this point in time? I can ask a million more questions. "Petrukha" is going for modernization, and whoever has questions is their problem)))
  2. +20
    19 July 2023 04: 20
    "Peter the Great" goes to landfill, questions remain

    There are no questions. It is enough to study the "insiders" of all effective managers involved in this issue.
    Another demonstration of their inefficiency...
    But on July 30, we will once again demonstrate the "power" (or power) of the Russian Navy and the greatness of the St. Andrew's flag ...
    Oh, how many "great" victories have been presented to us in more than 30 years ... "Kursk", "Admiral Kuznetsov", "Losharik" ... Now "Peter the Great" ...
    Soon the entire Soviet legacy will collapse completely ... We will still have hope for the experience and education of "effective" managers, who without exception defend dissertations on very problematic topics precisely after 2000 ... What a coincidence, however.
    1. +13
      19 July 2023 06: 25
      The power of the Navy is the best characteristic to what is happening with the fleet. Great comparison wink
      1. +8
        19 July 2023 06: 47
        The power of the Navy is the best characteristic for what happens to the fleet

        And with the country as a whole.
  3. +3
    19 July 2023 04: 38
    Well, I can’t imagine the American AUG in the ice of the Arctic Ocean

    This is because today she simply has nothing to do there. As soon as interests appear, the AUG will immediately appear - only several icebreakers will be added to the escort destroyers and frigates, taking into account the climatic conditions of the region ...
    1. +3
      19 July 2023 06: 13
      Well, if they are NOT there yet, it is more logical to keep the ship where they are ALREADY
  4. +12
    19 July 2023 04: 38
    First.
    The final decision to write off "Peter the Great" after the commissioning of "Nakhimov" has not yet been made.
    The second one.
    It would not be so sad if there were already at least new surface cruisers-missile carriers in the approved projects. There were hints of a new concept for the destroyers "Leader", but even those remained in hints.
    The third.
    I especially agree with the author about the weakness of the modern Pacific Fleet. Once, Russia already regretted that, due to the weak fleet in the Far East, it had to urgently transport warships as a whole squadron there from the Baltic itself.
    Fourth.
    So if there is still not even a clear concept regarding the construction of new surface cruisers, then until this concept is born, until they begin to design, until they approve, until they start building, until they build it, until they are accepted into the Navy - so during this time, if now " Peter the Great"
    he will put on modernization, he will once again, while those new cruisers are being built, will pass for a young one and will have time to grow old a second time.
    1. +4
      19 July 2023 05: 02
      Of course, I don’t understand much about the navy, but if the Pacific Fleet has become a priority, then it might be worth building additional shipyards there where they will build the navy and not only. Near China, if really such a good ally, let Putin talk with Xi and us will help to build the appropriate infrastructure there
      1. +13
        19 July 2023 06: 23
        Why fence a garden and build shipyards when there are northern ones? In Soviet times, no one sculpted a shipyard to give the fleet an aircraft carrier ... they built it in Nikolaev and distilled it. What prevents to build in the North and overtake to the Pacific Fleet? In addition to the lack of personnel, of course ... well, with the construction of a shipyard in the Far East, personnel will not appear ... they need to be taught and trained. And these Leksutov-Khusnulins can only start thousands of Tajiks. Well, talk about Soviet galoshes
        1. +3
          19 July 2023 07: 03
          Construction (however, as well as modernization) at Sevmash is extremely costly in itself, and also the efficiency of managers! And so it runs into good trillions. The plant is imprisoned for the construction of unique ships, where you really have to pay millions per ton of displacement.
          It will not work to overtake from the North to the Pacific Fleet under the conditions of a naval blockade. Say thanks to the "Tsar Liberator".
          Building something in the Far East with our leaders is another roll-on-drank-failure (see the Vostochny cosmodrome).
          But in general, the construction of frigates as the strike force of the fleet at the current pace is organized sabotage. In the case of a steep kneading, this squalor will not go anywhere (the tanker will be sunk), and in the coastal zone all tasks are solved by aviation much more quickly.
          And no seven frigates instead of one cruiser will work, the habit of measuring everything with money nullifies common sense. Well, how many destroyers can rich Switzerland build at its shipyards - right, not a single one! So it is with us: for the Pacific Fleet, ships need to be built in the Pacific Ocean, but there is no place to build them.
        2. +3
          19 July 2023 08: 28
          And these Leksutov-Khusnulins can only start thousands of Tajiks. Well, talk about Soviet galoshes
          These Tajiks will build galoshes with their own national color. laughing
        3. +9
          19 July 2023 08: 52
          I apologize for interfering in a smart conversation, but the largest shipyard in Russia has been built in the Far East, for giant surface ships. A new one appeared next to the old star. Frames yes, but it seems that the issue has been resolved with this. There are not enough personnel at Sevmash. Not everyone is ready to travel from St. Petersburg to the north and far east. Moreover, it is necessary for Kerch. And to Sevastopol. And do not expose the shipyard in Tatarstan. Our country is big, but the people are few.
          1. +4
            19 July 2023 09: 12
            I don’t believe that it’s impossible to find and train 5-10 thousand people for shipyards there in the Far East, it’s not such a large number of people, give people a normal salary and I’m sure there will be those who wish from the same new Russian regions
            1. +1
              19 July 2023 10: 17
              Quote: Graz
              give people a normal salary and I'm sure there will be those who want

              What should be your salary?
              1. 0
                19 July 2023 21: 00
                give people a normal salary and I'm sure there will be those who want

                What should be your salary?


                I remember that on the NSR, the builders who cooked the pontoons to lift the K-141 had the highest salaries ...
        4. +1
          19 July 2023 10: 15
          Quote: Nikolay310
          frames will not appear ... they need to be taught and trained

          You tell the mothers of school graduates!
      2. +2
        19 July 2023 10: 12
        Quote: Graz
        maybe it’s worth building additional shipyards there where the navy will be built

        Why are you not satisfied with ASZ and Zvezda?
      3. 0
        19 July 2023 17: 55
        Quote: Graz
        China is nearby, if it really is such a good ally, let Putin talk to Xi and they will help us build the appropriate infrastructure there

        Sorry, but I just can’t understand what is China’s interest in having a powerful fleet of another state at its side?
  5. +15
    19 July 2023 04: 56
    Wait. The article was written on the basis of five days ago "news" TASS, reprinted by a whole pride of media. Yesterday it was clarified that the write-off is not considered. Both sources are equivalent "unnamed". What is the article about? How did you love the fleet? So I see no reason. They will announce the write-off, then yes, forward to analytics and criticism. And then ... Or is there always mourning in the ritual economy?)
  6. +11
    19 July 2023 05: 13
    The ship was accepted in 1997. Definitely need to upgrade, even if it costs 200 yards. Our industry will no longer produce anything new from the same class.
    Our hope for 22350 will not come true due to their small number and the inability to build more, we run into the power plant of this ship, and the catastrophically long periods of its production.
    We need a new flagship at the Pacific Fleet instead of the ancient, useless Varyag, an analogue of the Moscow
    1. +11
      19 July 2023 06: 19
      The only question is where to get 200 yards ... maybe ask Abramovich and Deripaska?

      Or finally understand that the resources of Russia, given to her by nature, should work for the country and the population, and not for a handful of freeloader ghouls ...
    2. +5
      19 July 2023 07: 24
      You don't need to upgrade it. And Nakhimov did not need to be modernized, and Kuznetsov. First you need to develop the concept of the fleet, take up the small fleet, build everything anew. But all these ships are just a crazy waste of money and resources. At the expense of the power plant, if they had taken care of their production 15-20 years ago, then there would have been no problems with them now. Well, and most importantly, it is necessary to raise the quality of the officers of the fleet. Judging by the actions of the Black Sea Fleet, then without increasing the level of training of command personnel, ships can not be built or modernized.
      1. 0
        19 July 2023 10: 20
        Quote from: Derbes19
        First you need to develop the concept of the fleet

        I understand that you have already developed the concept? And what does it consist of?
        1. 0
          20 July 2023 00: 20
          And what are the headquarters of the Navy for?) No, I didn’t develop it and I don’t need it. It is enough for me to distinguish black from white.
          1. 0
            20 July 2023 14: 20
            Quote from: Derbes19
            And what are the headquarters of the Navy for?

            The headquarters of the Navy is working out its own! You decided to point them with your finger where to go, so point them !!!
            Quote from: Derbes19
            It is enough for me to distinguish black from white.

            You're bad at that too!
            1. -1
              20 July 2023 16: 25
              Quote: Serg65
              The headquarters of the Navy is working out its own!

              he doesn’t work out anything, he rivets the eternal copy-pastes and wunderwaffes, while flushing a lot of resources down the toilet, and the sailors and shipbuilders themselves are normal, the problem is precisely in the General Staff of the Navy and its activities in the field of analytics, long-term and super-long-term planning.

              Quote: Serg65
              You decided to point them with your finger where to go, so point them !!!

              why the hell should a layman do this? if it's not his job and he won't get paid for it? Or are you willing to pay? Well, for example, if I, as a layman, come up with a way to make the AUG cheaper by 100 million rubles and report it to the General Staff of the Navy, then when 50 years later, the AUG will be built and money will be saved, will I or my children be paid at least 1% of the savings by the state? answer: no! and therefore what for should I think over and check something, and even if I have already done this, then why should I make it sensible + visually draw up and send it to the General Staff of the Navy? And such garbage is happening not only with AUGs and not only among the townsfolk, so even sailors and shipbuilders will not receive anything, and therefore they will sit on the priest evenly.
      2. +8
        19 July 2023 10: 58
        Quote from: Derbes19
        First you need to develop the concept of the fleet, take up the small fleet, build everything anew.

        Will not work. In our Navy, the marine part of the nuclear triad hangs with weights on its feet, for the use of which it is the navy who are responsible. And if the withdrawal of the SSBNs from the base can still (and should) be ensured by the forces of a small fleet, then the defense of the lines in front of the positional areas cannot be pulled out by one small fleet.
        The Navy is responsible for 40% of Russia's strategic SBCs. So ensuring the inevitability of their launch in which case ("30 minutes of life for SSBNs") should be the main task of the fleet.
        1. +2
          19 July 2023 11: 40
          hi Greetings buddy!
          Quote: Alexey RA
          of our Navy, the marine part of the nuclear triad hangs with weights on its feet

          This is the main task of wartime! But there is still no less main task of peaceful existence - ensuring the interests of the state in remote areas of the seas and continents!
          Boats are indispensable here too!
          1. -1
            19 July 2023 18: 03
            Quote: Serg65
            This is the main task of wartime! But there is still no less main task of peaceful existence - ensuring the interests of the state in remote areas of the seas and continents!

            Forget about peaceful coexistence. After 24.02.22/XNUMX/XNUMX everything is already ...
            1. 0
              20 July 2023 14: 22
              Quote: Adrey
              Forget about peaceful coexistence. After 24.02.22/XNUMX/XNUMX everything is already ...

              what Do you think that the war with Russia will last for centuries???
              1. +1
                20 July 2023 16: 31
                it depends on what is considered a war, so the conflict "RI \ USSR \ RF" VS "west" was 100 and 200 and 300 years ago, and in 300 years it will also be.
          2. -1
            20 July 2023 00: 32
            This no less important task is ensured by the industrial, scientific and economic power of the state. This is what needs to be done. And not build pyramids like super cruisers. There will be industrial power and an advanced army and a powerful navy will automatically appear. No other way. And all these attempts to "modernize" are just a waste of funds and resources.
        2. 0
          20 July 2023 00: 11
          This is what needs to be done. And not upgrade cruisers.
          1. -1
            20 July 2023 14: 35
            Quote from: Derbes19
            This is what needs to be done. And not upgrade cruisers.

            Okay, let's write off this cruiser ..... do not tell me where to get the money to write off? It's not even ten million!
            Quote from: Derbes19
            There will be industrial power and an advanced army and a powerful navy will automatically appear.

            what Yes, we have a new Adam Smith! Well, as a gynecologist, I will tell you as an economist, industry and science require the sale of their products and their ideas, and not grinding water in a mortar! And this ... the army is not a devil from a snuffbox, the army does not have such an "automatically appear" function! It needs to be nurtured and grown! Instead of watering manure for decades and remembering it when the need makes you ride a bicycle to Upper Lars!
            Now it remains only for you to know about your knowledge in virology! recourse
    3. -3
      19 July 2023 08: 30
      let it cost 200 yards.
      Where did the money come from? Zin? Because of what bins of the Motherland?
      1. +8
        19 July 2023 09: 20
        Well, $ 330 yards was "given away" and no one answered for it. So there is money
    4. +4
      19 July 2023 09: 10
      Only Sevmash has experience. But Sevmash is the construction of nuclear submarines and there are many orders. Nothing to distract forces.
      The problem is that perhaps not all of Nakhimov's weapons systems are ready yet, so he will hang out in the north not far from Sevmash.
      Well, the main problem of these ships is the reactors, if at Nakhimov they were not in operation for a long time, preserving their resource, then on Petra they were used to the fullest. And it’s hard to say how many years of resource the reactor has left, I think it’s not enough. Surface ship reactors have not been made for a long time. Unlike boats. Although everything is not so simple with the latter, since they recently changed their manufacturer. Those who made them for all boreas and ash trees simply went bankrupt.
      By the way, the situation with the leader was approximately similar, there is no reactor manufacturer. Now perhaps this issue is being resolved, where production was transferred, and where reactors have not been made for a quarter of a century, only in the Soviet years.
      But such ships are not only problematic reactors, they are a large number of manufacturers and suppliers of systems and weapons. And this is also hard. The shipyard only builds the hull of the ship, and then assembles all the systems received from suppliers into the ship.
      Many here have no idea what the country's defense industry is and how everything works there.
      1. 0
        19 July 2023 11: 30
        Reactors of surface ships have not been made for a long time

        And how then have icebreakers been launched for the last 5-10 years? No reactors?
        1. +3
          19 July 2023 11: 38
          Reactors for icebreakers have always been very different from the military. Starting from fuel. If not in the topic, do not be ironic.
          1. 0
            19 July 2023 17: 40
            So, I'm not being ironic, I'm asking.
            What is so fundamentally different in the requirements for the energy core of civilian and military ships that one cannot be adapted to the other?
            Although, in my opinion, there is no need to give birth to a bicycle
            Yaue surfacers are now unicorns, and the world is ruled by unification that breeds efficiency
            And Skomoroshek is right in one thing, there is no money .... and there will be no more in large quantities
      2. -1
        19 July 2023 11: 33
        Quote: Oleg Ogorod
        Surface ship reactors have not been made for a long time.

        As far as I know, KN-3 is still under the technical supervision of the manufacturer!
        Quote: Oleg Ogorod
        since they recently changed the manufacturer

        How interesting is that? And who else is building such reactors now?
        Quote: Oleg Ogorod
        who made them for all boreas and ash trees, just went bankrupt

        Come on? MSZ is working, ZiO-Podolsk is working, Afrikantov's Bureau is working .... who did you mean?
        Quote: Oleg Ogorod
        Many here have no idea what the country's defense industry is and how everything works there.

        Campaign you, too, only know about it from the media!
        1. +3
          19 July 2023 11: 46
          Military and icebreaker reactors were made by Barricades, and then in the same place, but under the Red October brand. Including the same KN-3 (these were made only by Barricades and for a long time). But they don't make them there anymore. None. For three years already. The Barricade site was bankrupt and the staff disbanded.
          In Podolsk, only civilian rhythms are made for icebreakers.
          But Africans work, I have been there more than once. But these are constructor developers.
          I won't say where they do it now. Maybe it's a secret, but I don't want to divulge secrets.
          And I will add that the reactor is made by several enterprises in cooperation, some blocks of buildings with part of the filling, others with the filling, and still others with the rest of the filling and assemble everything into a ready-made reactor. Fuel is loaded elsewhere.
          1. 0
            19 July 2023 13: 14
            Quote: Oleg Ogorod
            Military and icebreaker reactors made Barricades

            Only the reactor vessel was made at the Barikada, the reactor itself was assembled by Gorky Plant No. 92!
            Both plants are working safely, as well as Red October!
            1. +3
              19 July 2023 15: 22
              The barricades made not only the reactor vessels, but also part of the filling, although this was called a block of buildings. NMZ collected further, although now NMZ is already diamond-antey and now has a different name.
              There were many different Red Octobers, those that since 2008 have been made at the former facilities of the Barricades reactors no longer exist.
              If you don't know the question, you don't have to say anything. And not so long ago, one reactor was assembled directly at Sevmash itself. Passing Nizhny Novgorod.
      3. +1
        20 July 2023 04: 39
        "Reactors of surface ships have not been made for a long time. Unlike boat ones." what editors put on the icebreaker?
  7. Eug
    +5
    19 July 2023 05: 19
    What to do with the TOF? As for me, the solution to the problem is MRA. Especially if you create a long-range interceptor (to replace the MiG-31) and a naval missile carrier (to replace the Tu-22M3) as modifications of the same type. And now - regiments (3-4) of Su-34 with Onyxes.
    1. -11
      19 July 2023 07: 13
      Eugene, use common sense.
      The kneading began in the Pacific Ocean: we are with China against the US-UK-Australia-India-Vietnam coalition. Their task is the occupation of China and Kamchatka. Our task is to capture Alaska, the task of China is to capture Japan. Well, how to solve this problem by means of coastal defense?
      We need a powerful Pacific Fleet, and a nuclear one, since there will be nowhere to bunker.
      I'll give you a seditious thought:
      It is necessary to build new cruisers according to the project of the modernized Nakhimov, there will be a better project - to switch to it. And to achieve an unconditional superiority in the theater of operations in submarine forces.
      1. +3
        19 July 2023 08: 32
        The kneading began in the Pacific Ocean: we are with China against the US-UK-Australia-India-Vietnam coalition. Their task is the occupation of China and Kamchatka. Our task is to capture Alaska, the task of China is to capture Japan.
        Why do they need China? What will the occupation give?
        1. -1
          19 July 2023 20: 39
          Why do they need China? What will the occupation give?

          Not occupation, but annexation.
          Mainland security and shifting the US Force projection to Hawaii. In the absence of a language barrier, they will quickly assimilate the useful part of the population and receive a huge technological breakthrough (like the USSR during the Great Depression).
      2. +5
        19 July 2023 08: 56
        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        Their task is the occupation of China and Kamchatka. Our task is to capture Alaska, China's task is to capture Japan

        Oh...
        Even a hundred years ago, China could not be completely occupied ...
        Why does China need the Japanese islands and 130 million extra mouths?
        How will we capture and hold Alaska?
        1. +4
          19 July 2023 12: 05
          How will we capture and hold Alaska?
          And besides, we can’t master the Far Eastern hectare, I’m not talking about Siberia, and then there’s Alaska, where a lot has already been developed and worked out.
          1. +5
            19 July 2023 12: 37
            Quote: kor1vet1974
            hectare, we can not master

            A hectare is very interesting, but nothing is clear. For a farmer, very little, for a personal plot - too much. It cannot be processed without machinery, and a tractor is redundant for it. For one family, the harvest is too big, and in order to sell the surplus, you need to go through seven circles of hell with no guarantee of success ...
          2. -1
            19 July 2023 20: 31
            In the absence of project development, stopped by the IMF, we will soon be optimized to Muscovy in the XNUMXth century. If there is no money for anything limited by the IMF, then it is time to sell the territories and open trade in live goods.
          3. 0
            19 July 2023 20: 40
            And besides, we can’t master the Far Eastern hectare, I’m not talking about Siberia, and then there’s Alaska, where a lot has already been developed and worked out.

            The Bering Strait and the naval base on the other side are not an empty acquisition.
        2. 0
          19 July 2023 18: 18
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          The kneading began in the Pacific Ocean: we are with China against the US-UK-Australia-India-Vietnam coalition. Their task is the occupation of China and Kamchatka. Our task is to capture Alaska, the task of China is to capture Japan.

          Quote: kor1vet1974
          Why do they need China? What will the occupation give?

          Quote: Doccor18
          Why does China need the Japanese islands and 130 million extra mouths?
          How will we capture and hold Alaska?

          Come on! Well, it's beautiful! laughing
          At the same time, Belarus, taking advantage of the general confusion, captures Poland in 10 days and liberates Czechoslovakia. Czech Republic from Slovaks, Slovakia from Czechs. Finland, seeing the hopelessness of the situation, leaves NATO and, as a sign of understanding the current situation, in order to enlist the support of the Great Axis Powers, declares war on Sweden wassat
          1. -2
            19 July 2023 20: 33
            Do not use the training manual of unscrupulous opponents in the defense of dissertations: to attribute a deliberately false thesis to the opponent and crush him with brilliance. For this - a minus.
        3. -1
          19 July 2023 20: 25
          The colonialists occupied all trade routes from China (gunboat policy) and that was enough. The slogan "we can do it again!! - have you seen it?
        4. -1
          19 July 2023 20: 28
          Extra (not USEFUL) will be optimized. In general, for China, the re-creation of the Japanese "Sphere of Co-Prosperity" only with Chinese hegemony = victory in the Third World War and the creation of a new world order system
    2. +6
      19 July 2023 07: 47
      Quote: Eug
      What to do with the TOF? As for me, the solution to the problem is MRA. Especially if you create a long-range interceptor (to replace the MiG-31) and a naval missile carrier (to replace the Tu-22M3) as modifications of the same type. And now - regiments (3-4) of Su-34 with Onyxes.

      Naval missile-carrying aircraft? Should be the main strike force in the Pacific?

      Our aviation did not help much in countering the American united AUG.
      The naval exercises of the US Pacific Fleet "Flitex-82" (FleetEx-82) taught our KTOF a good lesson:
      https://topwar.ru/35145-voenno-morskie-ucheniya-tof-ssha-fliteks-82-fleetex-82-sentyabr-1982-g.html

      But at that time, our nuclear submarine-hunter K-492 of project 671RTM, "taking revenge" on them at the Bangor naval base (the place where American nuclear submarines are based), approached secretly, overcoming all American acoustic detection systems, in the Strait of Juan de Fuca, just five miles from the coast took up a position. K-492 worked out a missile attack on the Bangor base, then discovered the Ohio missile carrier leaving the base and began tracking it, recording a hydroacoustic portrait.
      K-492 evaded the Ohio several times, frustrating attempts by American anti-submarine forces to locate her, and then found her again. The boat deliberately revealed itself, letting the Americans know that they were at gunpoint, all attempts by the Ohio to evade tracking were unsuccessful. The American boat went to Canadian territorial waters, returned to the base, but when trying to get out again ran into K-492 again.
      1. 0
        19 July 2023 08: 08
        Quote: Lynx2000
        Our aviation did not help much in countering the American united AUG.
        Naval exercises of the US Pacific Fleet "Flitex-82"

        What's with aviation? It was an intelligence failure. Space, naval, etc. And patrol aviation works on its tip.
        1. 0
          19 July 2023 08: 31
          Quote: Silhouette
          Quote: Lynx2000
          Our aviation did not help much in countering the American united AUG.
          Naval exercises of the US Pacific Fleet "Flitex-82"

          What's with aviation? It was an intelligence failure. Space, naval, etc. And patrol aviation works on its tip.

          Patrol aviation is part of the reconnaissance of the fleet. Why did he write about the MRA? General Giulio Due also believed that aviation should play a leading role in the war, and air strikes on the state and economic centers of the enemy could lead to victory. The surface forces of the fleet also matter ...
          Aviation is not omnipotent, space intelligence too. At sea, it can also be difficult to detect from the air even such a connection as a combined AUG.
      2. +4
        19 July 2023 08: 10
        Quote: Lynx2000
        Our aviation did not help much in countering the American united AUG.
        The naval exercises of the US Pacific Fleet "Flitex-82" (FleetEx-82) taught our KTOF a good lesson:

        The only question is that from time to time our MRA also taught good lessons to the American AUS.
        Quote: Lynx2000
        But at that time, our nuclear submarine-hunter K-492 of project 671RTM, "took revenge" on them at the Bangor naval base

        The only problem is that for us, catching "Ohio" was a one-time success, but the Americans "grazed" our SSBNs in the Pacific Fleet all the time
        1. +1
          19 July 2023 08: 40
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

          The only problem is that for us, catching "Ohio" was a one-time success, but the Americans "grazed" our SSBNs in the Pacific Fleet all the time

          Nothing of the kind, ours act in a similar way, and the Americans "graze" on duty not far from their shores. Ours are well aware of the directions and the base of the Bangor missile carriers.
          In Kamchatka, I met the then commander of the SSBN K-433 "Saint George the Victorious", their "hunters" grazed in Avacha Bay, our nuclear submarines go on combat duty from Avacha Bay in the surface position pass the target to the bay and maintenance. This is the most vulnerable place where they try to "get on her tail", while surface forces, aviation are involved, and the "hunter" is driven. After the departure of our nuclear submarine to the depth, it is not so easy to detect it, even with the American acoustic system in TO.
          1. -1
            19 July 2023 11: 33
            Quote: Lynx2000
            Nothing like that, ours act similarly

            Nothing is similar. Several escorts throughout the history of the Soviet Navy. But the United States controlled up to 80% of the Pacific Fleet SSBNs entering the BS.
            Quote: Lynx2000
            Ours are well aware of the directions and the base of the Bangor missile carriers.

            Yes. Only here to reach the base ... to put it mildly, extremely difficult.
            Quote: Lynx2000
            In Kamchatka, I met the then commander of the SSBN K-433 "Saint George the Victorious", their "hunters" grazed in Avacha Bay, our nuclear submarines go on combat duty from Avacha Bay in the surface position pass the target to the bay and maintenance. This is the most vulnerable place where they try to "get on her tail", while surface forces, aviation are involved, and the "hunter" is driven. After the departure of our nuclear submarine to the depth, it is not so easy to detect it, even with the American acoustic system in TO.

            Ugums. And then, after the breakthrough, checks were made - at a certain point in the ocean, anti-aircraft defense forces (surface and underwater, aircraft rise) gather at the right time, and the SSBN goes through the area of ​​\u75b\u80bits control. In XNUMX-XNUMX% of cases - behind her tail
            1. 0
              19 July 2023 12: 10
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

              Nothing is similar. Several escorts throughout the history of the Soviet Navy. But the United States controlled up to 80% of the Pacific Fleet SSBNs entering the BS.

              The tactics of the nuclear submarine type "Los Angeles", and then "Virginia". Located at the entrance to Avacha Bay on the border of territorial waters. When an SSBN is detected, covertly follow it. After her departure, a boat was pulled up in her place from the Kronotsky Bay region (to the north) or from the ocean. For the rotation period, the control task was carried out by R-3C Orion aircraft.
              To test stealth during the course, diesel-electric submarines were involved. Checks were carried out for the lack of tracking of SSBNs, carried out by ships, submarines, and aircraft.
              The Americans in TO deployed a stationary system for the early detection of submarines "SOSUS".
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

              Ugums. And then, after the breakthrough, checks were made - at a certain point in the ocean, anti-aircraft defense forces (surface and underwater, aircraft rise) gather at the right time, and the SSBN goes through the area of ​​\u75b\u80bits control. In XNUMX-XNUMX% of cases - behind her tail

              "Certain points" of the ocean for carrying a database are not abeam San Diego or Pearl Harbor, in the areas of our fleet.
              Enough has been said about the noise of our nuclear submarines.
              Regarding our methods of searching for submarines, they were quite effective, they made it possible to detect ...

              Py.Sy. Any military service is not sugar, you often hear that our submarines are noisy, emergency, incapable of anything, surface forces are not very good, armored vehicles are supposedly the last century ... But they serve and perform tasks.
              1. +1
                19 July 2023 17: 27
                Quote: Lynx2000
                But they serve and perform tasks.

                In-in. Despite many difficulties and setbacks. Why is MRA worse?
                1. +1
                  20 July 2023 02: 02
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  In-in. Despite many difficulties and setbacks. Why is MRA worse?

                  Have mercy?! Did I write that aviation is worse?! On the contrary, they complement each other.

                  Py.Sy Regarding difficulties and failures, they are inherent in any branch of the armed forces, there are many reasons, similarly, the Americans had miscalculations, failures and disasters, our nuclear submarines repeated passes in 1983 and 1985, and moved inside their AUG orders in the following exercises ...
      3. +2
        19 July 2023 08: 58
        Quote: Lynx2000
        Naval missile-carrying aircraft? Should be the main strike force in the Pacific?

        Our aviation did not help much in countering the American united AUG.

        There is no superweapon in the world. Everything works together
        1. +1
          19 July 2023 09: 22
          Quote: Doccor18
          There is no superweapon in the world. Everything works together

          Eat-beat?! So what did I write about? About this very thing. All forces and means are needed, in cooperation, even infantry ... Yes
      4. +1
        20 July 2023 08: 50
        Lynx2000 (Alexander) , there is a book by V.Ya. Dudko, commander of K-492 "Heroes of Bangor", where he writes about that campaign. To be honest, not everything was so smooth there, and only the unprecedented arrogance, first shown by our submarine fleet, which the adversary did not expect, allowed the boat to break away from pursuit when it was discovered in the bay. As Dudko writes, they were helped by the presence of many civilian ships in the water area, which, with their noises, blocked the noises of our nuclear submarine and allowed it to break away from persecution. It seems that after this single crawl into the womb of the enemy, our submarine fleet no longer runs the risk of sticking close to enemy bases. And here you can compare what American submariners allowed themselves when they penetrated into our territorial waters near Vladivostok or the Penzhinskaya Bay near Magadan (Sea of ​​Okhotsk), where they installed recording equipment on a military communication cable and repeatedly went there to take information.
        Well, I know how they grazed our boats in the Sea of ​​Japan from the experience of my service on the K-163 submarine in the 29th Division of the submarine of the village of Rakushka (Gulf of Vladimir). Any exit to the range for firing rockets or torpedoes was always under the supervision of a Japanese guard or an American Orion aircraft. Or it was worth surfacing at the end of the autonomy at the border of inland waters, the Orion flew in almost immediately to wave its wings to the commander in the felling fence - like congratulating him on a successful military campaign. I hope now that the secrecy of our boats does not allow the Americans to frolic like that. request
        1. 0
          20 July 2023 09: 44
          To be honest, it wasn't all smooth sailing.

          Not at all smooth. For example, what was discovered by the Americans was due to the presence of civilian digital spectrum analyzers from Brüel & Kjaer, which had a feature.
          The effective use of these spectrum analyzers required a very high level of training of acousticians, commanders, watch officers, and, taking into account their single-channel nature, it was actually not a “panoramic detection” but a search with one “narrow beam” for a controlled (manually) directional pattern of the SJSC PL, to the listening path of which the spectrum analyzer was connected. Obviously, in order to search for a needle in a haystack (PLA in the ocean), such a “beam” had to be very well used.

          That is, in order to be detected in this way, it was really necessary either to know exactly where and when the American nuclear submarine would pass, or to hope for a miracle.
          And these analyzers were, according to Dudko
          ... the flotilla had only two spectral analysis instruments. One was always at headquarters, and the second I took ...

          In this case,
          We received unique tools, methods and techniques for tracking submarines in the natural environment. Unique Tracking Experience, completely new ways to check the lack of tracking of our missile carriers, which, unfortunately, no one was interested (Either due to employment, they either did not believe or did not want to recognize the low secrecy of the PKK SN in "protected" areas).

          One can only guess about the capabilities of the Americans, who did not have ersatz in the form of civilian devices that were forced to be used for military purposes with us, but full-fledged military spectrum analyzers: ((
          1. +1
            20 July 2023 10: 39
            solar (Sergey), thanks for reminding Dudko about this spectrum analyzer. I read his book a few years ago and forgot a lot. But now I remember that his boat was deliberately sent into the bay at the exit from the Bangor nuclear submarine base, to wait for the passage of the American boat in order to record its noises. And I remember how Dudko made his way back across the ocean, winding between the islands of the Aleutian ridge so that his pursuers would not find him. So who drove whom on that trip is a big question! feel
  8. 0
    19 July 2023 05: 29
    "Peter the Great" goes to the landfill

    And Vladimirs continue to sit in their places
  9. 0
    19 July 2023 05: 55
    I am interested in the problems of the fleet and read the article to the end. The essence of the article is whining. The usual and familiar, like everything is bad with us, but what a stupid boss we have, but it would be better if it wasn’t like that, otherwise ... the money was spent on the NWO, the ships are not being built, they are probably being repaired at random and expensive, but the Americans and the Japanese have it out there! Such articles are not constructive, although they mimic them. These are panic articles with the motto "What to do, everything is gone." It is unfortunate that the author cannot apply his mind and knowledge in the context of precisely our, Russian problems. I will no longer read these throwing, moaning and tearing of the hair on my head - it's disgusting.
    1. +1
      19 July 2023 06: 10
      I completely agree. It's like everyone in everyday life: you want everything, immediately and the newest, and literally yesterday. But in reality, the apartment is not very good, and the machine is old, it would be better to update it, and the TV set would be in a bigger and newer format ... Although we seem to be earning something, but we can’t burst ... And then suddenly another conflict with a neighbor rows a bunch of budget ... Yes, and family members often spend money on god knows what instead of utilities. And the guests come, they poke their noses - and here it’s not so with you, and here it’s not like that. So we have to pervert as best we can. No one can boast that everything in his house is balanced and that he, as the head of the family, conducts a competent policy and successfully manages everything, and he has everything the very best. Let's be realistic.
    2. +9
      19 July 2023 06: 15
      Another thing is articles that tell how bad everything is with them there in the West, but everything is fine with us!
    3. +6
      19 July 2023 06: 17
      For people like you, on the 30th there will be another window dressing. Look at her, then listen to the nightingale-jelly and from the imaginary greatness again continue to puff out your cheeks ... because there is nothing left for the uryashkas
    4. +1
      19 July 2023 06: 35
      This is Skomorokhov's signature style. If you need to strengthen the TOF, then it is more logical to transfer Ustinov and 2 TFRs from the DKBF there.
    5. +4
      19 July 2023 06: 41
      Quote: Reader 47
      The essence of the article is whining.

      Maybe a reflection of reality? Is she different to you?

      Quote: Reader 47
      I will no longer read these throwing, moaning and tearing of the hair on my head - it's disgusting.

      Ryabov read. A TV is better! There, for pink ponies, they show a completely different reality.
    6. 0
      19 July 2023 07: 43
      The issue is the tupari in power, who are simply dragging us back, not forward
      1. 0
        20 July 2023 08: 58
        The issue is tuparis in power,
        What prevented you from showing how to govern the state? Maybe something was missing or simply there was no desire? Well, now take offense, it's your own fault .... request
    7. 0
      19 July 2023 08: 13
      Quote: Reader 47
      It is unfortunate that the author cannot apply his mind and knowledge in the context of precisely our, Russian problems.

      A very strange opinion. Did you read the article? .... If you read it, you didn’t understand anything except bukaff. The material is just on our Russian theme in parallel with the American one .... In general, I guessed all the letters, I could not read the word.
    8. +3
      19 July 2023 08: 38
      The essence of the article is whining.
      State your reasoned point of view that everything is far from the way the author writes, parry. And in fact, you are also whining.
  10. +8
    19 July 2023 06: 01
    And the TASS material turned out to be correct: the heavy nuclear cruiser "Peter the Great" really write off after the repair of "Admiral Nakhimov" was completed.

    Where did this information come from? Is there an official solution to this issue?
    Mr. Skomorokhov somehow avoided publishing official sources.
    1. +9
      19 July 2023 06: 27
      Yesterday a refutation of this information was received. Write-off is not considered. The article was written on the basis of a five-day fake.
  11. +3
    19 July 2023 06: 15
    To have a fleet, you need to have money. To have money, you need to create added value, that is, to have a developed industry, science and education. For 30 years of capitalism on the planet of pink ponies, it has become clear that none of these three criteria, with the current ones, can be seen as your own ears ...

    And for the little ones, the Navy will soon hold a parade ... and it would be good if these parade "ships" would never encounter what the Black Sea Fleet faced ...
  12. +3
    19 July 2023 06: 33
    It is better to build a new frigate or cruiser than to restore this one. Who will build it and where? Something recently, not even a destroyer was built, but here is a cruiser. Well, Roman issued “They just stand at their bases, undergo maintenance and repairs,” if you don’t go to sea, then how will the crew learn to perform combat missions while standing against the wall? Either they complained that the fleet does not go to sea, now it’s bad that it goes. It can be carried out on time with repairs, then the ship will not have to be written off after thirty years of service. Well, the fact that supposedly Ticonderogi are in the ports, and which cruisers are part of the AUG or aircraft carriers are also in the ports? So, judging by the press, they dangle around the world.
    1. -3
      19 July 2023 07: 27
      Why do you need a cruiser at all? Especially since it's so huge. Who is building cruisers now? Or do we have our own way?
      1. +6
        19 July 2023 08: 03
        It is needed because it already exists.
        Why is it needed? Destroy ground and surface targets of the enemy, pin the squadron of the fleet with EW and air defense forces, ensure reliable communication between the squadron and command posts anywhere in the world, including in the case of hour H and most of the infrastructure will be destroyed.
      2. +3
        19 July 2023 09: 12
        Quote from: Derbes19
        Who is building cruisers now?

        And it does not need to be built, it has already been built ...
        Quote from: Derbes19
        Or do we have our own way?

        Naturally. Everyone has his own. But stupid copying of other people's fleets (tasks) has never led to success.
        1. +3
          19 July 2023 11: 05
          Quote: Doccor18
          Naturally. Everyone has his own. But stupid copying of other people's fleets (tasks) has never led to success.

          The main thing is not to get carried away in your own way. And then you can swell in unparalleled worldwide way the cost of seven or eight full-blooded AUGs - and in the end come to the need to build your normal ABs. smile
      3. +5
        19 July 2023 11: 03
        Quote from: Derbes19
        Why do you need a cruiser at all? Especially if it's so huge. Who is building cruisers now?

        1. He already is. It does not need to be built for 12-15 years.
        2. 1144 is the "long arm" of a ship formation in air defense and work on enemy ships. Plus a communication and control center.

        The only thing to remember is that 1144 is a connection ship. And alone, even he is likely to repeat the fate of “Moscow”.
  13. -2
    19 July 2023 06: 49
    I don’t understand why we and our rocket industry need these huge floating coffins? Or do we want to sail somewhere and capture someone?
    1. 0
      20 July 2023 09: 03
      why do we need these huge floating coffins with our rocket industry
      This is exactly what Khrushchev decided at one time and sent sailors from ships to finish military service in the infantry. You are not a relative of Nikita Sergeevich, was the uncle interesting? fellow
  14. +1
    19 July 2023 06: 58
    I would not count 200 billion in frigates, but in what is really needed for our army: in geraniums, lancets, daggers, etc. In the 20-21st century, our fleet was a black hole for the budget, without much beneficial effect. It's hard to imagine that things will change in the future.
  15. +2
    19 July 2023 07: 10
    It remains only to hope that the repair of the Nakhimov is really a repair and the ship can still serve
    So Moscow seems to have been repaired. And that's what happened. . .
  16. +8
    19 July 2023 07: 22
    They write it off, they don’t write it off, but they definitely won’t build a new one.
    As an illustration of events in Russia. While fires continue in Siberia, the Russian Emergencies Ministry sent two aircraft to extinguish fires in Turkey.
    the second French Danone was nationalized. It would seem that you can throw caps into the air. But for some reason Kadyrov's nephew will command this Danon.
    Well, who else thinks that today's life is different from the 90s?
    1. -1
      20 July 2023 09: 12
      The Russian Emergencies Ministry sent two planes to extinguish fires in Turkey.
      And so it was always, they flew to put out fires all over Europe, when their forests burned. They explained it to me like this: These two planes are abroad, they can earn money for two new ones in their own country. And there are also fires far from water bodies, where the BE-200 can work efficiently, draw water and not carry it hundreds of kilometers to the fire. It really should be more of a lake or a straight section of a large river, otherwise no one will allow such an aircraft to be risked. And in Turkey, Greece, France or Spain, everywhere our BE-200s worked on the coast of the seas and extinguished the richest populated areas and resort areas, for which they were ready to pay us a lot of money. Something like that... and no charity. request
  17. +1
    19 July 2023 07: 22
    But what happened a day ago in the comments under the article with the opposite news. There is still a lot of fun there - both responsibility for incorrect forecasts, and responsibility for defeatism, and so on. Well, heroes? Will you say a few words in your defense or will you just quietly downvote?
    1. 0
      19 July 2023 07: 29
      Please! Please! Guys, what are you, do not be shy


      1. +3
        19 July 2023 11: 54
        And no one is embarrassed, Skomorokhov released his passage based on obs sources, yesterday they denied the write-off of Peter. Any questions?
        1. -2
          19 July 2023 13: 38
          Who refuted something? In that article, too, the source is not named. The same grandmother said.
          1. +3
            19 July 2023 20: 52
            You are calling people here to make excuses, but for what? The RIA Novosti source denied that he was not called "unnamed", unlike the TASS information, you can ask RIA a question. So when they officially write off, then call.
  18. -1
    19 July 2023 07: 42
    "The heavy nuclear cruiser Peter the Great will really be written off"
    Did not live richly, there is nothing to start. To build and preserve, you need other brains.
  19. +2
    19 July 2023 07: 57
    No one will write off the flagship on the go during the war ...
    I believe that they refused to modernize it according to the Nakhimov project. But writing off immediately is unlikely. 34 years for a ship is not a period at all, it is actually a new ship. Ships go for 50-60 years and even more.
    1. -3
      19 July 2023 10: 01
      I already wrote above, but once again, do you or anyone know how many years of resource the Peter's reactors have left? Nakhimov stood idle for most of the time, the reactor almost did not work, Peter wandered around the world for more than 30 years.
      The same applies to the rest of the driving system.
  20. 0
    19 July 2023 08: 00
    Blah blah blah. "Moscow" has already shown how important such ships of Russia are in a modern conflict. 60-year-old Urals and tons of 55 are sent to the real front, and the author dreams of fleets plowing the seas and oceans. We would have to live on the steppes of Ukraine.
  21. +3
    19 July 2023 08: 21
    the crew of "Peter the Great" is about one and a half thousand people. And this quantity could be used to equip several frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov type. Seven, to be exact.
    Do we have these seven frigates?
  22. +5
    19 July 2023 08: 37
    Strange, but in the cart there was such news the other day:
  23. -3
    19 July 2023 09: 02
    The time of "white elephants" ended after Jutland. Unfortunately, not everyone understood this.
    1. +2
      19 July 2023 19: 29
      Tell it to the US and the Chinese, thankfully
  24. -2
    19 July 2023 09: 21
    The soul hurts and the heart cries, but there is simply no need for these monsters - symbols of another country - for this one. Only harm. Now is not the time for show-offs. Further frigates and rise is not worth it. We need an anti-submarine fleet.
    1. 0
      19 July 2023 13: 30
      Quote: Luty
      The time of "white elephants" ended after Jutland

      Quote from Vashek
      Further frigates and rise is not worth it. We need an anti-submarine fleet.

      what Who says that we have a problem with the admirals? Looking for Nelsons? So I already found them for you, here every second one is Nelson, and even Ushakov !!!
  25. +3
    19 July 2023 09: 44
    TASS material turned out to be correct: the heavy nuclear cruiser Peter the Great will indeed be written off

    wassat Oops ..... the destroyer of helicopters, tanks, steamships has another blank shot and a bummer! feel
    Citizen Skomorokhov, are you some kind of rush? My advice to you, wait a couple of days and only then take your order! wink drinks hi
    1. +1
      19 July 2023 11: 13
      The precepts of the self-knowing one are true! laughing
      you do not reflect
      you spread
      let them fight back
      ©
      1. 0
        19 July 2023 12: 53
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The precepts of the self-knowing one are true!

        Lyosha ate the dock in this case! laughing
  26. -7
    19 July 2023 10: 00
    Russia as a maritime power ended in 1856 with the self-sinking of the fleet. Since that time, the navy fought well only on land, and at sea it was a complete shame. Therefore, it will be a boon for Russia to have a fleet with the ability to defend its coasts and areas of deployment of the strategic missile forces. Plus the cover of the islands in the Pacific Ocean. Huge ships are not needed for this. And of course, it is necessary to develop naval aviation.
  27. +1
    19 July 2023 10: 17
    Why breed demagoguery with a text that is one and a half kilometers long, if this information has already been refuted? They gave an official answer that no such decision had been made at the moment.
  28. +4
    19 July 2023 10: 21
    Great world power? No, a country without a column, which, instead of really starting to do something, is only looking for someone else to get gray imports through. And thanks to the Soviet people, who, although they themselves did not defend the USSR in 1991, left a very large backlog, which now allows them to flounder. Start throwing poop at me.
    1. -2
      19 July 2023 10: 38
      And why throw poop into a bunch of liberal shit?
  29. +1
    19 July 2023 10: 52
    Well, except maybe try to type in sms, as it is now fashionable.
    For a long time already, the whole country. Every day
  30. 0
    19 July 2023 11: 02
    Roman Skomorokhov: "Money that could have been used to repair the Peter the Great burned out long ago in the crucible of the NVO."
    Our guarantor and his patrons should introduce a progressive tax like in the rotting west, and a tax on luxury - that's money! But they do not want to offend themselves! But to rob the people with pension reform is easy! And one more thing: the Ticonderogi mattresses go for 50 years, and write off Peter after 34 years - are there any intrigues of the 5th column here?
  31. -5
    19 July 2023 11: 19
    I said yes, the crew of the Peter the Great was about XNUMX people.

    The crew here is not the worst.
    According to the state, the TARKR crew is 500 snouts, we look at official reference books. And in Soviet times, every six months (!!!) there was a partial replacement of the crew, yes, yes, conscription - dismissal. My opinion is that the deadline on the ship is only needed to rustle the tidy, and wash the dishes in the galley. Even the boat team, I’m silent about warheads - contract soldiers are better.
    Now about the "reconstruction" of Nakhimov. And what is left of the original ship, except for the hull and YaSU? Cable routes are definitely under replacement, they have nothing left. Someone wrote here that a ship that arrived for repairs is a "pig in a poke". 100% troubleshooting and budgeting is from the realm of non-science fiction. So the repair of "Peter" is another epic, and for the money it's better to build frigates. The question is in the "stuffing" and the place for construction.
  32. -7
    19 July 2023 12: 34
    Or maybe we should give the entire Far East region to the Chinese? They have maps where all the coastal cities have Chinese names, that is, they are ready and waiting for this! And the problem of the Pacific Fleet will be solved immediately, people will be relocated to the middle part of the country, Shoigu wanted to build two or three new cities in Siberia. Toph scatter on the rest of the fleet. Well, we do not pull such a size of the country, no matter how bitter it may sound, everyone understands this, but it hurts to admit it. There are few people, there are fewer of us, soon there will be no one to protect such territories.
    1. +1
      19 July 2023 21: 16
      Mister. And you ask the Far East, I confidently assert that your face would be broken for the fact that such meager thoughts sound in the supposedly Russian head, which I personally doubt. I'm not a cheers patriot, but your thoughts are not Russian. Not one normal Russian person will write and approve your nonsense. However, most likely, you are a person from abroad. I don’t know about the body, but the spirit for sure.
      1. -2
        19 July 2023 22: 31
        I hurt the feelings of a simple patriot, I understand it's a shame, but I'm not out of malice, I wrote - it's bitter to realize the truth. That territory is already populated by the Chinese, people are leaving there, they often show how the mafia keeps everything there, the division is in the spirit of the 90s, there is only one depression. I am for optimization, this will only make everyone better. It just seems to me, given all this, that's exactly what will happen, it just takes time!
  33. +4
    19 July 2023 13: 09
    A strange article, they have already denied that TAKR Peter the Great will be written off. After Nakhimov, he will get up for repairs, but at a less costly scheme. The Severodvinsk shipbuilders have gained experience and things will go happier if the industry does not fail in the timely supply of weapons and equipment. Moreover, the time has come to reload the spent nuclear fuel on Petra.
  34. 0
    19 July 2023 14: 52
    Why write off a warship in such a difficult and dangerous time?
    1. -1
      19 July 2023 18: 31
      I don’t know why write him off, but I don’t know how he could help in difficult and dangerous times, and even more so how he will help not to lose everything on the outskirts
      Ps - the minus is not from me!
      1. -1
        19 July 2023 19: 28
        To write off - I drank the dough for recycling.

        Help - see Timokhin's article https://vz.ru/society/2023/7/17/1221453.html
  35. +1
    19 July 2023 15: 08
    A good ship would still serve faithfully!
  36. -2
    19 July 2023 15: 12
    Why compare pies with irons? Ticonderoga has a clear purpose for which it was designed.
    The Orlan project was built under the military doctrine of the late 70s. Since then, the concept of "who is thicker and longer" has ceased to be the main factor in performance characteristics. Perhaps 2-3 ships of medium (or less than average) size, built with this money, can solve much more problems.
    Of the minuses - well, yes. There will be nothing to drive for the show in Venezuela and Cuba. And the sailors will not pick up some kind of infection there on leave
  37. +1
    19 July 2023 17: 35
    And where does this "reliable" news come from? No official statements
    1. +2
      19 July 2023 18: 03
      The Navy has confirmed that Peter the Great is getting up for repairs after Nakhimov.
  38. -1
    19 July 2023 17: 36
    the minister's family knows where to stick the cruiser for display to the public
  39. +5
    19 July 2023 18: 56
    "Nimitz" - 48 years old and the Americans are chasing tail and mane and will serve for another two years, "Enterprise" has served for more than 50 years, and our "Peter" has a lot of 34 years. Nonsense. The official who signed the disposal act would be nice to be shot on the spot. Yes, it's so revealing. The "executor" enters the office and discharges the APS in the face at point-blank range, then another clip and there, in theory, one neck (throat) should remain. from which blood will splatter. God!!!! Help Russia get rid of this "Elite"!!!.
    1. +2
      19 July 2023 19: 39
      In the next year or two, the conflict will go into the "nuclear phase", there is no longer any doubt, now every ship counts. Re-equip it with a naval version of the S-500, let's call it Rif-M2, put 4-6 Pantsir-M on each side, on Caliber-M missiles, at least 40 of them with nuclear warheads. And there will be a super-powerful ship that will not let anyone in and the naval base, where it will be based, and, most importantly, a strike force with 40 missiles with 2 megaton warheads and a flight range of -7500 km. Skomorokhov's naivety amazes me - instead of repairing one cruiser, you can build 6 frigates pr 22350, right? 76 locksmiths, welders, electricians can build 6 on one slipway!!!!!! frigates? Well, they probably can, only in modern economic conditions it will take them 100 years !!!!!! no less. If we want to build 12 frigates pr 22350 or 8 destroyers pr 23560, we need to restore the Soviet planned economy. and in the current market capitalist, none of this will happen, it is extremely inefficient. Here one instead of "Poseidons" offered to build thousands of tanks. Well, now "UVZ" is making instead of a battalion kit, a regimental tank instead of 31 is making 100, in three shifts at the limit of its capabilities. And by the way, 40 years ago (1983) they released 2000 !!!!!!!! tanks, and this is in peacetime.
      1. +2
        19 July 2023 21: 01
        Thank you, Sergey!
        You are just a ray of light in the underworld.
        With the upcoming batch in the Pacific Ocean, in the absence of a fleet, we risk becoming a historical relic. At the same time, we will not only lose the Far East, but in general we can shrink to an ordinary European country in accordance with the decision of the victorious powers. Only the fleet can ensure the mastery of the seas, the transport of troops and supplies, the repulse of enemy raids and landing operations, as well as the disruption of their transport flows in all directions.
        The area of ​​the globe is 510 km², the area of ​​the oceans is 072 km², the area of ​​the Union State is 000 km². That is, by giving up the oceans, you reduce the territory controlled by the enemy compared to ours to a ratio of 361:000. And all these land-based ICBMs, tanks, coastal defense with its frigates and aircraft will be easily covered from all directions controlled by the enemy. Do not forget that in space with the slogan "no money" we have already rolled back to the last place among the developed countries.
        So the choice is not great: either we decisively, without embarrassment in means, eliminate the center of war in Europe and prepare for the Third World War in the Pacific Ocean, or our fate will be decided by the winners in this war.
  40. +4
    19 July 2023 19: 27
    So, someone is sitting in TASS and pouring, who really wants to write off one of the last, and currently the most combat-ready of the Soviet cruisers.
    This is the conclusion.

    And the fact that Peter will be written off is still tryndez. Hello from Sevmash
  41. +2
    19 July 2023 19: 30
    https://vz.ru/society/2023/7/17/1221453.html

    Recommend to all laymen.
  42. +3
    19 July 2023 19: 38
    MOSCOW, April 20 - RIA Novosti. The heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser Peter the Great is not going to be decommissioned and decommissioned. Andrei Luzik, head of the information support service for the activities of the Navy, told a URA.RU correspondent about this.
    “These are some speculations of journalists,” Luzik said. This became known as part of a joint project between URA.RU and Noodles Media to expose fakes.
    Earlier, news began to spread in the media that the cruiser Peter the Great, which belongs to the Northern Fleet, was going to be decommissioned. This supposedly should happen after the repair of the ship "Admiral Nakhimov". At the same time, the publications noted that the decommissioning of the cruiser is a "fundamental decision" ...
    _____________________________
    It is, of course, difficult for us to predict something with a high degree of probability, but in this case, a reason will appear to beat someone in the face. And it will be fully justified ... Either - or ... feel
    1. -1
      20 July 2023 09: 48
      We also promised not to raise the retirement age, yeah.
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  45. -1
    19 July 2023 20: 30
    Shocking news, and sad. On the one hand, they are still trying to reanimate the honorary phallic symbol "Admiral Kuznetsov", on the other hand, a quite powerful vessel, a kind of doomsday floating rocket carrier, is to be decommissioned ..
    Of course, I am skeptical that all this mega-magnificence will survive in the event of a real war, and will not pinch at bases like the Tirpitz, but still a rocket carrier stuffed with a vepon capable of circumnavigating the world by itself is better than the eternally towed and frankly unlucky "aircraft carrier type" is extremely controversial design.
    In modern times, generally speaking, one should be more careful with write-offs of this kind. Everything that may be needed in conditions that, unfortunately, are not as far away as we would like, it would be better to hold back ..
  46. +3
    19 July 2023 21: 10
    I read the military-literary "opuses" of Mr. Skomorokhov and, simply, "go nuts" from the "depth" of his "knowledge" in the field of tactics - the strategy of the Navy, the Aerospace Forces about "acquaintance" with the plans for military shipbuilding in the USSR-Russia and naval doctrine. .. I am amazed at the tolerance of the editorial board of VO to these "works", especially since the author, bluntly, did not even mention that this naval "masterpiece" is his purely personal opinion and nothing more ..... Well, firstly, a maritime power always needs ships of the "ocean zone" (great autonomy, versatility, a powerful salvo of fire, the comfort of the crew in the ocean element). I think that Mr. Skomorokhov would hardly have "survived" an ocean swell or an 8 - 10 meter wave (for weeks), without loss of efficiency (sometimes consciousness) on a ship of "modest" displacement and comfort, already, on the second - third day. .. Secondly, "flag display" is a necessary and obligatory attribute of state policy ... Thirdly, only in sea voyages (near and distant) the skill of the ship's crew is "forged" ... Fourth - there is information that the conclusion of "Peter Veliky" from the military personnel of the Navy and transferring him "on pins and needles" is a "fake" "stretching" from, allegedly, TASS (according to the military information group "Mil.Press". Media registration certificate No. ФС77-39156 dated 11.03.2010/2023/0 - https://flot.com/1/%D0%A5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%B80%D0%1%D8%BD%D0%9B%D0%B4%D0%A0%D1%BB %D8224%BE%D15%XNUMX/). Well, and the last thing, for Mr. Skomorokhov - American and British AUGs "roam" with enviable regularity in the areas of the Barents Sea, which, of course, "strains" the command of the CSF, the Navy, the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces, together with the Supreme ... And "Peter the Great", with one "semi-volley" (about the included electronic warfare and electronic warfare) can turn this AUG into a "pleasant memory" for XNUMX minutes or "politely escort" to the North - Cap - Bear, away from sin .... .
  47. +2
    20 July 2023 01: 39
    I have no words. The author sucked a "sensation" out of his finger and invented a lot of fierce nonsense on its basis.
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  49. -1
    20 July 2023 11: 46
    The author makes three conclusions in his article. The first is that the presence of cruisers of the "Peter the Great" type in the fleet is of no practical use at very serious costs. The second is that instead of these two cruisers, 12 new frigates would be much more useful. The third - everything is gone, there is no more money for the construction of the fleet ... And if the author approaches the first two conclusions logically, and I agree with these conclusions, then the third conclusion is far-fetched. The author proceeds from the fact that Peter the Great is not being repaired, since there is no more money for the construction of the fleet, and together with the write-off of Peter we need to say goodbye to dreams of brand new frigates. But after all, the refusal to repair Peter may just be due to the fact that they looked at the modernization of Nakhimov and decided - well, what the hell, we’ll save on Peter, and instead lay down six new frigates. After all, if you carefully follow open reports about the activities of our military shipyards, you will find that new corvettes and frigates are being built in Kaliningrad, St. Petersburg and Komsomolsk-on-Amur. And no one stopped their construction and did not freeze. In general, we do not know the plans for new ships (the form of admission is not the same), but what is in the public domain allows us to say that the program for building new ships has not been curtailed at all.
    Something like that.
  50. -1
    20 July 2023 12: 35
    Build the new first, then scrap the old
  51. 0
    20 July 2023 16: 45
    Where did the author get his thesis about no money ??? On which he built his inventions ..
  52. 0
    21 July 2023 03: 21
    Then it was very difficult to understand

    Yes, everything there was immediately clear, as soon as the tales began that they say Peter is a coffin on wheels. outdated and not a cake at all, from some authors, it was already obvious that they had given the command to explain to the people another regrouping and a difficult decision.
  53. osp
    -1
    21 July 2023 03: 50
    It’s not even a matter of money, but the age of the vessel and the TIME it will take to modernize it.
    Minimum 8-10, maximum twice as many years.
    But the ship is 30 years old and has been mercilessly exploited all this time.

    And to these 30 years let’s add 10-12 years for modernization.

    The ship will be 42-45 years old.

    This means that reactor plants will either leak or become unsafe.
    And it won’t last very long - time and money are going nowhere.

    Therefore, if you leave it, then “as it is.” Maybe those 10-12 years will serve instead of stupidly standing idle in the dock.
  54. -1
    21 July 2023 14: 41
    With this money, I note, it would be possible to build at least 6 frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov type, which I consider to be very decent ships. SIX.



    This is what I regret, that they poured 200 billion into a monster with very conditional combat characteristics....
  55. 0
    21 July 2023 20: 03
    the reality of our days is the deeply tertiary importance of the fleet for such a power as Russia. as the first real war showed. all the local “great naval commanders” at the top were engaged in sabotage and betrayal of the Country, with their eternal moaning about the fleet. 36% of the military budget for the Navy before its own is a mistake worse than a crime. it should be 3.6% - this is really justified spending on the fleet. even taking into account the annoying "rpksn", which in fact should not exist, their construction is the same mistake
  56. 0
    21 July 2023 21: 38
    These ships are the legacy of the great socialist state. Russia will not support them financially, and does not deserve them. This Kirov is a powerful ship and could still sail. Its disposal is sad, but in today's realities it is inevitable, as is the subsequent rapid disposal of the remaining large ships of the Russian Federation.
  57. 0
    22 July 2023 00: 05
    Источник опроверг данные о решении списать крейсер "Петр Великий" https://flot.com/2023/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9%D0%A4%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%8224/
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  61. +1
    24 July 2023 17: 38
    With this money, I note, it would be possible to build at least 6 frigates of the Admiral Gorshkov type, which I consider very decent ships. SIX. That is, if you then upgrade and repair Peter the Great in the same way, then the fleet, it turns out, lost TWELVE new frigates.


    This is the logic of greedy but narrow-minded pygmies. You can sew twenty hats from one piece of skin, but what can you wear them on? Ask the Americans why they didn’t build 15 frigates instead of the new Ford aircraft carrier, costing 50 (I think) billion dollars? Fifty is more than one!

    Firstly: in the time required for the overhaul of Peter the Great, our shipbuilders will be able to build, not finish, but simply build, only one or two Gorshkovs - we do not have the necessary capacity for large-scale construction (it’s not like building studios with a mortgage). But we already have experience in modernizing Project 1144 ships! And it becomes clear to even a no brainer that having one modernized Orlan in the fleet will be more useful than having two Gorshkovs.
    Secondly: in cases with large, serious ships, modernization is always more profitable than new construction (well, if you don’t want to steal money, but want to benefit the country). The same applies to our aircraft carrier. At least (to make it clearer to the pygmies) the hull and propulsion system do not need to be built.
    Thirdly: the effectiveness of our entire fleet of corvettes and frigates has already been clearly demonstrated - it was also possible to successfully launch Calibers from ten container launchers of the "Cube" type - cheap and cheerful. This is not what the fleet is built for. The fleet is, first of all, a demonstration of the power of the state! Scientific, industrial and military power. This is why states have eleven AUGs.
    Fourth: no matter how beautiful the ship Gorshkov is, it is just a frigate, and a fleet cannot be built from frigates alone. Orlan is a flagship around which you can build a strike force, supplemented with frigates. Large displacement - more opportunities to accommodate various types of weapons - is the basis for the group's combat stability.
    And finally, most sensible people do not need to be reminded that a large and complex ship in the fleet is a center for preserving and enhancing competencies both in the field of shipbuilding, and in terms of operation and repair, and, most importantly, in the field of training and education of privates, officers and command staff.

    The total displacement of the fleet of yachts of Russian oligarchs exceeds the total displacement of surface combatants of the Russian Navy... not so for the USA and China!

    It’s not difficult to turn into pygmies, and then all that remains is a cargo cult...
  62. 0
    25 July 2023 04: 51
    ... Write off, cut, etc.
    Maybe at least leave it as a museum for younger generations?
    To see something other than the phone and Google brains. For Northern cities, it may be too big for a museum, but it will reach Kronstadt on its own.
  63. 0
    25 July 2023 13: 19
    All the state money goes to yachts and villas...
  64. -1
    26 August 2023 11: 01
    Quote: Doccor18
    He did not "drag", but carried the service.
    How else can a ship’s crew gain invaluable experience?

    And does this “invaluable experience” help the Black Sea Fleet a lot? "Moscow"? Or to the landing ship that received the drone on board? It seems that the experience is truly priceless: it costs a lot of money, but the benefits from it are a big deal! IMHO, the navy performed worst of all in this war.
  65. 0
    26 August 2023 11: 06
    Yes, everything is simple in principle and economically justified. Those who plan to write off Ticonderoga will live quietly in retirement, some in California and some in Kansas on their hacienda or ranch, get up early in the morning to check how the flag feels there and are proud of their country America, and the one who writes off Petra will also live quietly in retirement in the same Idaho or Maine, get up in the morning to check how the flag feels there and be proud of how it fell off on time)))) by God, it’s funny the path is rolled there and the Kozyrevs and Kalugins and Kasyanovs turn out to be even Masha Drokovs then suddenly they smoke schematosis despite their young age
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  67. 0
    21 November 2023 16: 00
    Complete bullshit. I have seen Peter the Great every day from my window since his arrival in the fleet. For 34 years, he spent pure time at sea, God willing, 2,5 years, that is, less than 10% of the rest of the time at the pier. What is the purpose of resource extraction here? And what resource are we talking about? In terms of the service life of turbines and other mechanisms, it is barely sufficient for major repairs. The case is probably a little worn. So after repairs, serve it and serve it again. I’ve seen enough of the brand new missile destroyers that our valiant naval officers with big shoulder straps, but without honor or conscience, wrote off as scrap. They themselves would be written off for scrap by leaning against the wall for this. American ships, on average, are at sea for 50-60% of the total life of the ship; their hulls do not take into account the ice conditions of the north, but they write off their ships based on actual wear and tear.
  68. 0
    26 November 2023 21: 01
    The oligarchy should be shaken up voluntarily and forcibly, otherwise they feed strangers. They would have found money for Peter and new frigates. They have a whole fleet of yachts that cost as much as a good frigate and have no less displacement.