Prospects for the use of anti-aircraft missiles 5V28 from the S-200VM air defense system for striking ground targets

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Prospects for the use of anti-aircraft missiles 5V28 from the S-200VM air defense system for striking ground targets

On Military Review on July 13, an article by Roman Skomorokhov was published A riddle that fell like a stake into the ground, in which he discusses the possibility of using Ukrainian S-200 air defense systems for shelling ground targets.

I do not know the military specialty of the author of this publication, but, apparently, he has a superficial and sometimes distorted idea about the Soviet long-range air defense system S-200 in particular and the country's air defense system in general. In an article on the possible use of Ukrainian long-range anti-aircraft missiles taken off combat duty, Roman for some reason cites irrelevant information and, on the contrary, misses important technical details and organizational nuances.



Also, from the readers' comments left to Roman's article, it follows that not all of them understand what the S-200VM air defense system was and what capabilities it had.

The current state of Ukrainian air defense systems S-200


After the collapse of the Soviet Union, a powerful grouping of air defense forces remained in Ukraine, the like of which was not in any of the union republics. Only Russia possessed a large arsenal of anti-aircraft weapons. In 1992, the airspace of the Ukrainian SSR was defended by two corps (49th and 60th) of the 8th separate air defense army. In addition, the 28th Air Defense Corps of the 2nd Separate Air Defense Army was located on the territory of Ukraine.

The structure and armament of the anti-aircraft missile forces stationed in Ukraine were similar to those adopted in the USSR air defense forces. In 1991, on the territory of Ukraine there was equipment and weapons of 18 anti-aircraft missile regiments and anti-aircraft missile brigades, in which there were more than 100 anti-aircraft missile divisions armed with air defense systems: S-75M3, S-125M / M1, S-200VM and S- 300PT/PS.

As of 2010, about three dozen medium-range and long-range anti-aircraft systems and complexes were in working condition in Ukraine: S-300PT/PS and S-200VM.

In 2013, Ukraine had several divisions armed with long-range S-200VMs. Maintaining the S-200VM air defense system with liquid-propellant rockets, which used toxic fuel and an aggressive flammable oxidizer, was possible thanks to the heroic efforts of the calculations and the refurbishment.

Already 10 years ago, the combat value of these single-channel air defense systems was low, and the operating costs were very significant. In fairness, it is worth recognizing that the S-200VM was the most long-range Ukrainian air defense system. But this was depreciated by the poor technical condition of the hardware of the complexes and anti-aircraft missiles, which was caused by a high degree of wear, as well as low noise immunity and single-channel targeting.

Somewhere in 2008, Ukroboronprom announced a program for the restoration and modernization of the S-200VM air defense system, but after analyzing the options, this was recognized as irrational and resources were directed to maintaining the multi-channel S-300PT / PS air defense systems with solid-fuel missiles.

In 2014, the decommissioning of the Ukrainian S-200VMs began, and in 2016, the last division of the 540th Lviv Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment was formally decommissioned.

There is reason to believe that some of the equipment and missiles removed from combat duty S-200VM were sent for storage, and now they can be converted for shelling ground targets. However, this makes little sense, and why - we will consider below.

What missiles from the S-200VM air defense system can be at the disposal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?


In his article, Roman writes:

"Rocket 5V21 in any modifications had a semi-active homing head ... "

In fact, as part of the S-200 family of air defense systems, various missiles were used modifications: 5B21 (V-860) - for the S-200A air defense system, 5V21P (V-860P) - for S-200V air defense systems, and 5B28 (V-880) - for the upgraded S-200VM air defense system. Theoretically, the upgraded "Vega" can fire old missiles with a shorter range, but this opportunity was used only for the "disposal" of missiles at training grounds (during training and control launches), which had no further prospects for operation in combat divisions.

The anti-aircraft missile of the 5V21 modification, which was used as part of the S-200A air defense system, put into service in the late 1960s, like other missiles used in the later versions of the S-200, was equipped with a semi-active radar homing head. But it is not clear what relation to possible strikes on the territory of Russia have the 5V21 missiles repeatedly mentioned by Roman, which have long been disposed of and shot at firing ranges, and were considered obsolete already in the early 1980s?

As part of the S-200VM air defense systems, which Ukraine inherited from the USSR, 5V28 (V-880) modification missiles were used with a firing range of up to 240 km, and in Roman's article, where he cites photographs of supposedly 5V21 missiles, they are captured.


Allegedly, ZUR 5V21 at the starting position. Actually 5V28 missiles

Well, and for some reason, a photograph of the launch of the V-880E export missile from the Iranian S-200VE air defense system.


Launch of the Iranian V-880E missile

In Iran, the missiles delivered in 1992 were significantly modernized during the overhaul, and they are even more different from the 5V21 missiles than the standard 5V28 in terms of internal filling.

Quote, Roman Skomorokhov:

“It is also possible that Ukraine could even get missiles for the S-200 from other sources. Although no such transfer has been announced, potential donors exist in Europe, with Bulgaria and Poland being the current operators.”

Such deliveries are extremely unlikely, and here's why. Bulgaria, which received two S-1980VE air defense systems (channels), 200 TP and 1 V-26E missiles in the mid-880s, decommissioned them more than 20 years ago due to high operating costs and now they are inoperable. Poland had two S-200VE air defense systems (channels), 1 TP and 38 V-880E missiles, and even in 2002 upgraded one complex to the S-200С Wega level, but in 2014 it was removed from combat duty. Even if V-880E missiles suitable for recovery have been preserved in Poland and Bulgaria, their delivery to Ukraine and resuscitation will be fraught with great difficulties, in the absence of real combat prospects.

Radar facilities S-200VM SAM


Considering the possibility of using Ukrainian S-200VM air defense systems on the ground, Roman mentions radar equipment, allowing a number of significant inaccuracies:

“The early warning radars from the S-200 complex of the P-14, P-35 types had an excellent detection range, from 400 to 600 km (the S-200 was a long-range complex), the 5N87 / 5N87M and P-15M early warning radars worked on detection of low-flying targets.

The obsolete P-14 and P-35 radars, produced in the 1960s, have long been decommissioned. The mentioned 5N87 / 5N87M radar systems (and not radars) include standby stations, as well as radio altimeters, and are mainly designed to control medium and high altitudes. The P-15M mobile low-altitude radars based on the ZiL-157, which were used mostly in military air defense, have long been decommissioned, and it is not at all clear what relation they have to the S-200.

If we are talking specifically about the Ukrainian S-200VM air defense systems, then to review the air situation and accurately measure the coordinates in the radio engineering units attached to the anti-aircraft missile regiments, there were standby radars 5N84A, P-37, 35D6, as well as radio altimeters PRV-13 and PRV -17.

The two-coordinate radar 5N84A "Defense-14", operating in the meter frequency range (the photo of which is available in Roman's article), confidently detects a fighter flying at an altitude of 10 km at a distance of more than 300 km. The information is updated every 10 or 20 seconds.


Radar 5N84A

The Ukrainian version 5N84AMA, adopted in 2011, has the same characteristics. During the modernization, a transition was made to a modular design and a new element base, which made it possible to increase the reliability of the station and reduce energy consumption. The number of operating frequencies and noise immunity have increased. Currently, all Ukrainian Oborona-14 radars have been disabled or destroyed.

Prior to the start of the “special operation”, Ukrainian RTV also had a P-37 standby radar operating in the 2830-3010 MHz frequency range and an instrumental range of up to 350 km.

Roman did not remember the 35D6 three-coordinate radar station operating in the decimeter frequency range. This radar is one of the best late Soviet radars and is capable of detecting targets flying at low altitudes. Detection range - up to 360 km.

On the 35D6 radar, the antenna post with a rotary device and the control cabin were mounted on a single semi-trailer.


Radar 35D6

The 35D6 radar has good noise immunity, after refinement it can be used as part of modern automated systems and, if necessary, work in the mode of an autonomous control point.


P-37 radar and PRV-13 radio altimeter

Mentioning the obsolete and retired P-14 and P-35 radars, Roman forgot about the PRV-13 and PRV-17 radio altimeters, which are paired with the 5N84A and P-37 two-coordinate radars.


S-200VM target illumination radar

It is with the help of radio altimeters that the exact determination of coordinates is carried out, which is necessary for issuing automated target designation to operators of the 5N62V target illumination radar (antenna post K-1V).


Workplace of the ROC operator

However, as with other Soviet object air defense systems, the operators of the ROC of the modernized Vega had the opportunity to independently search for a target in the “wide beam” mode. But this required more time than with the preliminary receipt of accurate target designation.

Some features of the combat use of the S-200 air defense system


Regarding combat use, Roman writes:

“... the target was supposed to be in the beam of the ROC until the missile warhead was blown up. This is important, since it is not so easy to provide such conditions for a ground target.

It’s not that it’s not easy, but impossible, to ensure the defeat of missiles from the S-200 air defense system on a ground target. At the design stage of the S-200A, the possibility of shelling large radio-contrast targets such as "railway bridge" or "cruiser" was considered.

The curvature of the earth's surface at a distance of more than 70 km does not allow reliable radar illumination of even a large ground target, and at a short distance, numerous reflections from terrain folds and artificial structures make stable guidance extremely problematic. Moreover, even when firing at air targets, it is difficult to reliably hit objects at a height of less than 300 m. In connection with all this, the "ground" mode for the S-200 air defense system does not exist, and, accordingly, firing in the normal mode at ground and surface targets with 5V21, 5V21P and 5V28 missiles is not provided.

In the event that the semi-active radar homing head for some reason stops seeing the target, within 7-10 seconds the “maximum up” command is issued to the missile’s rudders. The missile goes into the upper layers of the atmosphere so as not to hit ground targets, and there the warhead is detonated.

Separately, it is worth mentioning the possibility of striking the ground with an air defense system with a radio command guidance system. A number of sources say that the S-75 air defense systems of later modifications could strike on the ground with missiles with a “special” warhead. The SNR-125 low-altitude S-125M / M1A systems also had a “ground” mode, which made it possible to fire missiles with fragmentation and “special” warheads at radio-contrast ground and sea targets.

The same fully applies to the Soviet-made S-300PT/PS air defense systems, which use 5V55R/RM missiles with radio command guidance of the second kind (with sight through the missile). Prior to the start of the “special military operation”, training firing of the Russian S-300PS air defense systems was repeatedly carried out during the exercises, with strikes against ground targets with coordinates known in advance. In this case, the firing range does not exceed 50 km. The development of such tasks was previously repeatedly written in the official media, for example here.

Possibility and prospects for the use of 5V28 missiles against ground targets


Quote, Roman Skomorokhov:

“On paper, in theory, yes, 5V21 could fly up to 300 km.”

Not on paper, not in theory. The missile of the S-200 complex is capable of flying over 500 km, and such cases are known. In the late 1980s, during training and control firing in Kazakhstan, after the failure of the guidance system, the missile did not self-destruct and, having flown out of the range, fell onto a collective farm field. During the fall, the rocket did not explode, was subsequently dismantled on the spot and taken to the landfill for disposal.

Of course, it is not difficult to equip the 5V28 SAM or any other missile of this family with a contact fuse that initiates the warhead when it hits the ground. Another question is where will an unguided rocket with tightly locked rudders fly and where can it hit?

In February 1991, during Operation Desert Storm, the Iraqis tried to launch B-755 anti-aircraft missiles from the S-75M Volga air defense system towards the troops of the multinational forces. All missiles fell in the desert without harming the enemy. With full confidence it can be argued that the result of the use of unguided 5V28 missiles will not be better, and unguided missiles launched into the "white light like a pretty penny" will pose a danger only to the civilian population.


In order to make it possible to deliver accurate strikes on specific targets, first of all, it is necessary to make changes to the control equipment, abandoning the semi-active radar seeker. Relatively easily, an anti-aircraft missile can be turned into an operational-tactical one by combining onboard control equipment with a GPS navigator, which is already actively used on drones-kamikaze. Also, in order to control the firing range, it is necessary to introduce a fuel cut-off mechanism, which is not on an anti-aircraft missile.

However, this is not the biggest problem that arises when converting missiles into OTR. Those who are at least a little familiar with the S-200 family of air defense systems know how cumbersome and complex the complex is. In fact, the “dvuhsotka” is a “semi-stationary” air defense system and is deployed in well-equipped engineering positions. Relocation of the S-200 is possible, but it takes a lot of time and is very laborious.

The rocket is launched from a massive 5P72V launcher, which also undergoes pre-launch preparation. After launch, the next missile is supplied from one of the two 5Yu24 loading machines.


Loading the launcher 5P72V SAM 5V28 using the charging machine 5Yu24

The 5Yu24 loading machine was a rail-mounted frame with front and rear supports for the rocket, mechanisms and drives for moving the ZM along the rails, mechanisms for coupling with the 5P72V launcher and rocket reloading, providing an automatic loading cycle, including the approach to the launcher and return to its original position.

Due to the fact that all previously existing S-200VM launch sites in Ukraine have been eliminated, and the 5P72V launchers themselves and their loading vehicles have extremely low mobility, it will be very difficult to launch missiles in the frontline using standard S-200VM air defense systems. .

It seems logical to create a towed or self-propelled launcher mounted on a heavy-duty wheeled or tracked chassis, but even in this case, many technical difficulties will have to be overcome.

In the early 2000s, in Libya, with the participation of foreign specialists, an attempt was made to improve the mobility of the S-200VE air defense system by placing the main elements of the complex on a wheelbase.


To do this, the 5P72V launcher was installed on a heavy-duty off-road chassis MAZ-543, placing a rocket between the cabins, according to the OTP R-17 type. The guidance radar was also mounted on the MAZ-543. Means of technical and material support were placed on the basis of KrAZ-255B road trains.

However, nothing good came of it. When launching a rocket launching at an angle of 48 °, the MAZ-543 was affected by jet exhausts from solid-fuel boosters, which caused the wheel tractor to fail. In addition, due to the high center of gravity, there was a tendency to tip over, and when transporting a fueled rocket, it experienced too much shock loads.

I was very amused by the comment of one reader, a quote:

“In your opinion, is it possible to use the S-200 from an air carrier and how much will the range increase?”

Fortunately, there is no aircraft in the Ukrainian Air Force under which it would be possible to hang a rocket weighing 7100 kg, almost 11 m long and 0,86 m in diameter. For comparison, the widespread MiG-21F-13 fighter had the same normal takeoff weight . Yes, and the suspension of an anti-aircraft missile under an air carrier is impossible in principle, since the 5V28 SAM is loaded onto the “gun” from above, which is typical for all Soviet first-generation air defense systems.


For a better understanding of the dimensions of the rocket - a photo of the 5P72V launcher and the 5V28 SAM installed on it next to people. Also visible are the rails along which the 5Yu24 loading vehicles leave the reinforced concrete shelter.

As for pre-launch preparation, it should be understood that a rocket cannot be in an equipped and refueled state indefinitely, and jet fuel components have a certain shelf life. Expired fuel and oxidizer are prone to loss of their properties and self-decomposition, which is fraught with emergency situations during refueling and can lead to abnormal operation of the LRE. Currently, Ukraine does not have stocks of fresh fuel TG-02 and oxidizer AK-27, and the establishment of their production in conditions where industrial enterprises and energy facilities are being hit by cruise missiles and drones, unreal.

Preparation for the launch of long-stored liquid anti-aircraft missiles, produced about 40 years ago and requiring refueling with hellish components, consisting of a very aggressive flammable and explosive oxidizer and a very toxic fuel, is a very extraordinary task. This requires special equipment of a technical position, and the refueling procedure itself is carried out in chemical protection suits and in insulating gas masks. Neglect of skin and respiratory protection means and violation of refueling technology inevitably leads to serious consequences.

At the same time, the question of whether it is possible to use anti-aircraft missiles of the S-200VM complex for shelling ground targets should be answered in the affirmative. But the conversion of 5V28 missiles into OTR will require very significant material resources and will be very laborious, which will negatively affect the cost-effectiveness criterion, with vague prospects for combat use. I'm far from underestimating weapon opponent, just as I am not a supporter of the thesis “too late, little, useless”. It is possible that Ukrainian specialists, among whom there are many who are highly qualified, will try to make operational-tactical anti-aircraft missiles, but the combat effectiveness of such home-made products, taking into account all the circumstances, is very doubtful.

In my opinion, a much greater danger to stationary objects in the depths of Russian territory is posed not by converted anti-aircraft missiles, but by heavy Soviet-made UAVs Tu-141 and Tu-143 or unmanned training L-39 Albatros equipped with a combat charge, as well as newly created Ukrainian and existing Western long-range drones.


Judging by the available photograph, taken moments before the fall of an unidentified object in the Bryansk region, it looks more like a Tu-141 long-range reconnaissance drone than a 5V28 anti-aircraft missile.
44 comments
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  1. +15
    18 July 2023 05: 45
    I do not know the military specialty of the author of this publication

    Thanks for the great article! Such a highly professional and qualified review of the S-200 air defense system, and indeed one of the types of weapons and its possible use, has not been in VO for a long time. You immediately feel like a professional! drinks
    ps And Mr. Skomorokhov's VUS is extensive. Recently there was his article about Japanese NPLs. About the same level as above.
    1. +3
      18 July 2023 12: 21
      Quote: Amateur
      And Mr. Skomorokhov's VUS is extensive. Recently there was his article about Japanese NPLs.
      What are you? Still, it will reach the SSBN. laughing laughing drinks
      1. -3
        18 July 2023 14: 11
        the Armed Forces of Ukraine have 2 divisions of S-300V1 air defense systems hidden somewhere else (1 of them was in storage)
        - according to Gerasimov's reports, they were not destroyed
        1. +2
          18 July 2023 23: 33
          In the picture - S-300V, without 1.
          Comment is too short...
        2. 0
          19 July 2023 01: 10
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          the Armed Forces of Ukraine have 2 divisions of S-300V1 air defense systems hidden somewhere else (1 of them was in storage)

          Before posting the left photos, figure out how the S-300V differs from the S-300V1
  2. -3
    18 July 2023 05: 49
    I was very amused by the comment of one reader, a quote:

    “In your opinion, is it possible to use the S-200 from an air carrier and how much will the range increase?”

    Fortunately, the Ukrainian Air Force does not have an aircraft under which it would be possible to hang a rocket weighing 7100 kg, almost 11 m long and 0,86 m in diameter.

    Thanks for the provided information.
    It's nice to read an article written by an expert.
    And the question was not at all about combat aircraft, but about an aircraft in general, which, when launched by dropping a rocket from a high altitude from the rear ramp, significantly increases the ballistic range. Since, according to the information on the VO, there is no continuity of Russian air defense today, this makes a strike by such a system on a large concentration of civilians (say, during the celebration of the city's day) very dangerous. You talked about the guidance / detonation system using GPS. So a terrorist strike with such a hitch in the deep rear with a launch not far from the border outside the combat zone is not excluded.
    1. +5
      18 July 2023 08: 28
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      And the question was not at all about combat aircraft, but about an aircraft in general, which, when launched by dropping a rocket from a high altitude from the rear ramp, significantly increases the ballistic range.

      Do not confuse missiles with BR. You can’t significantly increase the ballistic range when dropping this missile from the ramp, since the height and speed of the carrier by the standards of the 5V28 missile defense system are not so great. At the same time, a huge amount of R&D and testing will be needed, which Ukraine cannot afford. Due to the design features of the 5V28 rocket, it is easier to create a new solid-propellant BR from scratch than to adapt this missile defense system to an air launch.
      1. -1
        18 July 2023 17: 42
        waiting for the new Tu-160M2,
        they want to implement bomb bays for medium-range air-to-air missiles
        for example R-37 up to 400 km, R-77 up to 100 km, in the future up to 200 km.
        transformation of the Tu-160M2 into a strategic air fortress
      2. -1
        18 July 2023 19: 39
        Thank you, but the science of ballistics says that starting from rarefied layers of the atmosphere, a rocket is capable of developing a greater speed than with a ground launch (over 1200 m / s) - and this is much better than the Colossal projectile.
        Further, in the absence of air defense continuity, such a missile (not at all somersaulting on an aerodynamically stable platform at an oncoming flow speed of 130 - 140 m / s, as commentators write) will reach speeds of up to 1800 m / s in the upper troposphere, after which it will continue flying along inertia and hit an unprotected target (a weekend market at noon, a beach at a local reservoir, a pioneer line, a presentation with the participation of significant persons, etc..)
        Forgive the old man, but all of us, even if once, had our own VUS, and my bread was to foresee it. Our adversary is inventive, and he can carry out his R&D by training on our pain points. The world is full of decommissioned (but enough for one flight!) C-130, you know approximately the number of C200s that can be assembled around the world, well, imagine the points along the perimeter of the Union State from which a launch can be carried out. And warheads (in fact, large-caliber shrapnel) are most effective against human clusters.
        So the range of action of such a hitch and the possibility of counteracting it remain a serious issue for me in the light of the love of the Power (what we have in Russia, what is in Union Belarus) for extras.
      3. +2
        19 July 2023 13: 50
        Quote: Bongo
        Do not confuse missiles with BR.

        And with planning ammunition
    2. +1
      18 July 2023 09: 40
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      the question was not at all about combat aircraft, but about an aircraft in general, which, when launched by dropping a rocket from a high altitude from the rear ramp, significantly increases the ballistic range.

      Well, let's say you dropped a rocket with a trolley or platform (no other way) from an Il-76 flying at a speed of about 500 km / h and an altitude of 5000 m, what's next? And then a structure weighing about 8 tons will go to the ground tumbling like a stone. It will not be possible to immediately separate the platform and launch solid-fuel boosters, and even more so the main engine, due to fears for the safety of the carrier. You can attach a parachute to the nose of the rocket to slowly lower it vertically. And after the carrier retires, start the engines. But what do we gain in this case? In addition, I have serious doubts that a delicate liquid rocket manufactured several decades ago will withstand such somersaults.
  3. Aag
    +4
    18 July 2023 05: 59
    Thanks to the author for a detailed, professional analysis of the topic. I especially liked the tactful (!), polite correction of errors, shortcomings of the previous author (Skomorokhov) who raised the topic.
    hi
  4. +2
    18 July 2023 06: 48
    Well, Roman did not deserve a "belt" for this article! Because he is a Writer, not a Reader! His vocation is to write, not read reference material before writing an article! And in general ... it’s not “royal” to poke around in the “material”! You can "order" and consultants will give everything! They didn't look!
    PS I remember from the once read information "about the S-200" that at the end of the "life" of the S-200, solid-propellant missiles were also created ... even the "marking" was indicated! Is this true, niht fershtein! hi
    1. +3
      18 July 2023 08: 32
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      You can "order" and consultants will give everything! They didn't look!

      Excuse me, what consultants? There are no consultants. I could develop this topic, but I won't.
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      I remember from the once read information "about the S-200" that at the end of the "life" of the S-200, solid-fuel missiles were also created ... even the "marking" was indicated!

      You are confusing it with the S-75; for the S-200, even experimental solid-propellant missiles did not exist. No.
      1. +1
        19 July 2023 02: 46
        Quote: Bongo
        Excuse me, what consultants? There are no consultants.

        This is unfortunate. crying
        Some writers could use consultants.
    2. 0
      18 July 2023 09: 03
      Are you hinting at an old Soviet joke, with the inhabitants of the Far North?))) so they didn’t always know how to write)))
    3. 0
      19 July 2023 13: 58
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Because he is a Writer, not a Reader

      At least he expresses his thoughts.
      By today's standards, that's commendable.
      At work, I began to encounter incomprehensible texts.
      It turned out that they were made by artificial intelligence!

      For the sake of experiment, I also set him the task of writing about the machine gun I studied.
      Compiled quickly and neatly.
      But such nonsense...
  5. +1
    18 July 2023 06: 58
    Sergey's opinion on the 2001 exercises is interesting. The crash of the Tu-154 after the defeat of the S-200 air defense system.
    1. +4
      18 July 2023 08: 37
      The main reason is poor coordination of actions during the exercises and poor training of operators, as well as the "general factor" when there were chiefs with big stars in the cockpits of the complex, which should not be there. There were also technical issues, for example, letter frequencies were the same for different ROCs. I do not know whether the conclusions of the commission investigating this incident have been declassified.
  6. 0
    18 July 2023 09: 01
    Great article. Apparently the author served in the ZRV. I would like to see an article about the possibilities of using the S-300 "on the ground".
    1. +1
      18 July 2023 09: 43
      Quote: TermNachTER
      I would like to see an article about the possibilities of using the S-300 "on the ground".

      It seems that in this article, Sergey quite intelligibly said that all missiles with radio command guidance can be used on the ground. As for the details about the S-300P, the time has not yet come for them.
    2. 0
      12 September 2023 11: 16
      Quote: TermNachTER
      I would like to see an article about the possibilities of using the S-300 "on the ground".

      About 20 years ago, a former air defense officer I knew told me how an S-300 accurately hit a tank at a training ground. Moreover, we were talking about late Soviet times, i.e. There were still the first modifications.
  7. +2
    18 July 2023 09: 29
    Prior to the start of the “special military operation”, training firing of the Russian S-300PS air defense systems was repeatedly carried out during the exercises, with strikes against ground targets with coordinates known in advance.

    It is not entirely clear why the author did not consider the obvious option - the use of air defense missiles against non-radiocontrast ground targets with known coordinates according to the missile's ANN? Judging by what they write, this is exactly how the S-300 missiles are used in such cases. The accuracy of the hit, of course, depends on the accuracy of the INS and limits the actual range of use.
    But this is the standard mode for the S-300, although not the main one.
    1. 0
      18 July 2023 23: 29
      Quote from solar
      It is not entirely clear why the author did not consider the obvious option - the use of air defense missiles against non-radiocontrast ground targets with known coordinates according to the missile's INS data? Judging by what they write, this is exactly how the S-300 missiles are used in such cases.

      And how does it follow from what they write that S-300 missiles are used according to ANN data?
  8. +4
    18 July 2023 10: 52
    After reading the title, I decided not to waste time and immediately look at the author laughing. Now I will definitely read it slowly and thoughtfully.
    Thank you Dear Sergey! It is a pity that lately, for objective reasons, you do not often indulge us with your balanced and reasoned materials on topical issues.hi
  9. +1
    18 July 2023 10: 54
    Thank you for the article! Indeed, a similar level in VO has already been forgotten a little. But there is a question:
    depreciated by the poor technical condition of the hardware of the complexes and anti-aircraft missiles, which was caused by a high degree of wear


    a high degree of wear in peacetime in Ukraine from what? Age and storage - I understand, but wear and tear - no.
    1. +1
      18 July 2023 14: 02
      Quote: Proctologist
      a high degree of wear in peacetime in Ukraine from what? Age and storage - I understand, but wear and tear - no.

      All elements of the complex wear out to varying degrees during operation. For example, more than 10 years ago, Iran bought diesel generators for the S-200 air defense system and "various components" from Russia. By "components" apparently we mean electrovacuum devices, the share of which in the composition of the hardware of this complex is very large. Just like electronics, mechanical parts wear out. After finding the missiles on the database, they are disassembled for prevention and the number of such cycles is finite.
  10. -2
    18 July 2023 10: 57
    Land strikes with anti-aircraft missiles are not possible. Too many conditions to be met. I think that the same British will help the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they will redo the guidance system like the planes. Which were redone in silence
  11. +2
    18 July 2023 11: 23
    hi
    As always, an interesting article!
    Such deliveries are extremely unlikely, and here's why. Bulgaria, which received two S-1980VE air defense systems (channels), 200 TP and 1 V-26E missiles in the mid-880s, decommissioned them more than 20 years ago due to high operating costs and now they are inoperable.


    https://youtu.be/jBNnD81OPnA?t=1267
    IMHO, even now the Bulgarians are dragging something along the parades, so in the light of the news that they and the BTR60 are ready to give to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, you can expect from them and the S200 ...

    ... SAM 5V28 will not be better, and unguided missiles launched into "white light like a pretty penny" will pose a danger only to the civilian population
    ...
    the question of whether it is possible to use anti-aircraft missiles of the S-200VM complex for shelling ground targets should be answered in the affirmative

    IMHO, this is to be expected for the following reasons: there is a missile and you can "fire" it, calling it, for example, "a decoy for air defense" and "a new weapon of the Armed Forces of Ukraine." Like "both the lads are in business, and the hryvnias are paid." And those who are "out of business" - those can be sent to the "counterattack" by landing.
    IMHO, again, but the photo is not Tu141, rather C200 feel ...
    1. +2
      18 July 2023 14: 28
      Hello!
      Quote: Wildcat
      even now the Bulgarians are dragging something around the parades

      SAMs from the S-200 look very impressive in parades, but these missiles have not been on the database for a long time. Not surprisingly, the S-200 is extremely expensive to operate.


      The position of the Bulgarian S-200VE air defense system. A snapshot of 2008, there are no missiles on the guns and there have not been since.

      The same story with the S-75

      The S-300 PMU, on the contrary, is operated, albeit with a reduced composition.

      Quote: Wildcat
      IMHO, this is to be expected for the following reasons: there is a missile and you can "fire" it, calling it, for example, "a decoy for air defense" and "a new weapon of the Armed Forces of Ukraine."

      You have no idea how many fires with the preparation and refueling of missiles. Of course, old anti-aircraft missiles can be used as a decoy, but I do not believe in their large-scale use.
      Quote: Wildcat
      again, but the photo is not Tu141, rather C200


      On the 5V28 SAM, the aerodynamic surfaces are symmetrical, which cannot be said about this object.
      1. +2
        18 July 2023 17: 42
        hi
        Good afternoon!
        Most likely you are right.
        But theoretically, if we assume that this is still a C200, then soon it will become known, it is unlikely that the Armed Forces of Ukraine started a single launch in this case.
  12. +2
    18 July 2023 12: 18
    I do not know the military specialty of the author of this publication, but, apparently, he has a superficial and sometimes distorted idea about the Soviet long-range air defense system S-200 in particular and the country's air defense system in general.
    Well, what are you, Sergey, the right word to say this about the writing author of VO himself. After all, judging by his articles, Roma understands everything. Except nuclear submarines. Although it is quite possible that he is "a huge specialist" in this as well. It's just that I haven't read his articles for a long time. especially about aviation. Where he carried so much pseudo-literate nonsense that even the curls at the bun were aligned ... laughing laughing drinks
    1. +2
      18 July 2023 14: 33
      Hello, hello
      You can not "understand" everything, it is very detrimental to the reputation.
      1. +3
        18 July 2023 16: 00
        Quote: Bongo
        Hello, hello
        You can not "understand" everything, it is very detrimental to the reputation.
        Good evening, Sergey!
        Okay, you know that, I know ... Roma probably thinks that the more nonsense he writes, the "cooler" he will look ... So looking at his articles, more and more such amateurs appear on VO who tell how they measure sweep of the wing and along the front chord of this wing belay I am glad that sometimes competent articles like yours still appear, but such a "feeling" that soon only Roma and his ilk will remain at VO. Well, something like this. hi drinks
        1. +3
          19 July 2023 02: 50
          Quote: Fitter65
          So looking at his articles, more and more similar amateurs appear on VO who tell how the sweep of the wing is measured, and along the front chord of this wing

          wassat
          Quote: Fitter65
          Only Roma and others like him will remain. Well, something like this.

          At one time I "sprouted" when Roman added to the fact that the Su-30 appeared earlier than the Su-27P. wassat
          1. +2
            19 July 2023 23: 58
            Quote: Tucan
            At one time I "sprouted" when Roman added to the fact that the Su-30 appeared earlier than the Su-27P.

            I remember this, after this nonsense, by the way, I abandoned this business, read and comment on Romin's articles. drinks
  13. 0
    18 July 2023 17: 11
    I would like clarifications from the author about the signature under one of the photographs. The fact is that there is no workplace of the ROC operator as such, there is an officer or guidance operator. He has no direct relation to the ROC, there are no people in the K1 cockpit during combat work .. On In practice, they never gave us information about the height of the target, only the azimuth and elevation, turn on sector scanning and wait for the target mark to appear.
  14. +2
    18 July 2023 18: 56
    You can immediately see not an amateur, but a specialist: with knowledge of the matter - specifically and to the point! Definitely +!
  15. +1
    18 July 2023 23: 25
    In the event that the semi-active radar homing head for some reason stops seeing the target, within 7-10 seconds the “maximum up” command is issued to the missile’s rudders. The missile goes into the upper layers of the atmosphere so as not to hit ground targets, and there the warhead is detonated.

    This is mistake. A very common mistake even among those who served on different S-200s. If the GOS of these missiles ceases to see the target, then the missile continues to fly in stabilization mode. The loss of the GOS of the target does not have any effect on the moment of self-destruction of the missile defense system. The self-destruction of the SAM occurs within, EMNIP, 20 s after the end of the operation of the onboard power source (BIP) without taking the SAM anywhere. If self-destruction did not occur, then the missile defense system, being statically stable, continues uncontrolled flight up to 600 km.
    1. -2
      19 July 2023 06: 34
      Thanks Wang for the valuable information.
      So from the ground - 600 km, and from 8-9 km, but along an advantageous ballistic trajectory? There is something to think about!
      1. 0
        26 July 2023 08: 23
        The question is cost and necessity.
        But if you dream, then you can launch missiles. As a carrier to use a snowstorm, he just has the opportunity to place a rocket in the inner compartment and push it on the manipulator (we will omit the costs of taking off a snowstorm). Let's say the launcher and the hatch of the cargo compartment will not fall apart at speed from the oncoming air flow. What will we achieve? Launch in a rarefied layer of the atmosphere with a range of a couple of thousand kilometers with a warhead of a couple of hundred kilograms. By the way, we still need to calculate whether the missiles will withstand the heat, because. the speed will be reported to her more (otherwise there is no point). The cost, even in the presence of everything and not possible luck, is cosmic, the effect is minimal.

        It is much more efficient to invent and build analogues of the Iranian Shahab MRBM.
  16. +2
    23 July 2023 15: 47
    Quote: Bongo

    On the 5V28 SAM, the aerodynamic surfaces are symmetrical, which cannot be said about this object.

    But it really looks like "Strizh"!
  17. 0
    12 September 2023 19: 41
    Great article!!! The car is a true professional and a classy military specialist who has served from a platoon commander and probably to an air defense regiment commander. Served on the S-75 in Mongolia (1975-76) ZKV foreman of the starting battery. For the missile defense system of this complex there were tables of firing at ground targets. And one of the missiles, being on combat duty, could be equipped with a special charge.
  18. +1
    13 November 2023 10: 06
    All the same, anti-aircraft missiles are used as ballistic missiles.