Post-war use of pistols manufactured and developed in Nazi Germany

59
Post-war use of pistols manufactured and developed in Nazi Germany

After the end of World War II, the victorious countries got millions of small arms weaponsmade in the Third Reich. A significant part of the trophies left after the surrender of Nazi Germany, due to redundancy and poor condition, went to open-hearth furnaces, but a considerable number of samples of small arms were used for their intended purpose, delivered to third countries or, after conservation, were sent for long-term storage, where they sometimes stayed for more than 50 years .

During the Second World War, the Wehrmacht, the SS troops and various German armed formations had a large number of pistols of different models captured in European countries, but today we will consider short-barreled weapons of German origin, produced in Germany, or the same samples produced at enterprises located under the control of the occupation administration.



Pistols chambered for 9 × 19 mm Parabellum: Luger P.08 and Walther R.38


The standard German army pistol after World War I was the Luger P.08. For firing from it, a cartridge of 9 × 19 mm Parabellum, which was quite powerful for that time, was used, which, at distances typical for firing from short-barreled weapons, provided a good stopping and lethal effect.

The exact number of Lugers produced is unknown. According to some reports, taking into account assembly outside Germany, up to 3 million copies could be produced. However, not all pistols made at German enterprises ended up in the German army, some were sold abroad. According to a number of sources, the German armed forces from 1908 to 1944 received more than 2,4 million pistols.

It is noteworthy that the Kaiser fleet in 1904 adopted the Luger into service earlier than the army. The "Marine Model" had a barrel length of 147 mm and sights designed for firing up to 200 m.


9mm pistol Luger M.1904

The Luger P.08 pistol (also known as the Parabellum) officially entered service with the Kaiser's army in 1908.


9mm Luger P.08 pistol with holster

The most notable innovations were the disappearance of the automatic safety at the back of the handle, the use of a coiled cylindrical return spring and an extractor combined with an indicator of the presence of a cartridge in the chamber. To put the weapon on the fuse, it was necessary to turn the fuse lever down. As in the “Sea Model”, the automatic pistol is based on the scheme of using recoil with a short barrel stroke. The barrel bore is locked using a system of hinged levers.


P.08 pistol with detached magazine and open bolt on slide stop

In fact, the entire hinge-lever system according to the device is a crank mechanism, in which the shutter is the slider.

The weight of a standard P.08 army pistol in curb condition was about 950 g, the total length was 217 mm, and the barrel length was 102 mm. Magazine capacity - 8 rounds. Rate of fire - about 30 rounds per minute. The initial speed of the bullet is 350 m / s. For the armament of personnel directly involved in hostilities, a modification was made with a barrel length of 120 mm. From 10 m, a bullet fired from this pistol pierced a German steel helmet. At a distance of 20 m, the bullets were placed in a circle with a diameter of 7 cm. Shooting was most effective at a distance of up to 50 meters.

Later, the German Navy received its own version of the P.08, without the safety on the handle, but retaining the two-position sight and the 147 mm barrel. Such pistols from the P.08 were distinguished by an adjustable sight and the possibility of docking an attached butt.

In addition to the "land" pistols with a barrel length of 102-120 mm, there was an army version with an elongated barrel. This modification is known as the "Artillery Model" or Lange Pistole 08 (LP 08).


The pistol of the "Artillery model" was intended for arming field artillery gun crews and non-commissioned officers of machine-gun teams. The barrel length of 203 mm and the ability to attach a rigid holster-butt to the weapon significantly increased the range of fire.

The carbine pistol could be equipped with a Trommelmagazin 08 drum magazine for 32 rounds. Although the sights of these weapons were marked at a distance of up to 800 m, the effective firing range with an attached holster-butt did not exceed 100 m. Despite the higher cost, several tens of thousands of LP.1913 pistols were produced from 1918 to 08, and this weapon massively and quite effectively used in the battles of the First World War. Subsequently, the Artillery Model (as pistols with a barrel length of 102 and 120 mm) was in service with the Wehrmacht, the SS troops, the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe.

"Parabellum" for quite a long period of time was considered as a kind of standard and, as is commonly believed, was one of the best pistols of the First World War. One of the main advantages of this 9mm pistol is its high accuracy. Compared to other army pistols of the time, it combined high power with sufficient compactness.


P.08 pistols were of high quality workmanship, good exterior finish, accurate fitting of moving parts and ease of shooting. On weapons of early release, the cheeks of the handle were made of walnut wood, with a fine notch. Pistols produced during World War II may have dark plastic cheeks.

In the interwar period, a slide delay was introduced into the Luger design, which excluded the movement of the bolt forward when the magazine was removed, which increased the practical rate of fire and safety in handling when disassembling the weapon. In addition to the standard army version, in the early 1930s, Mauser-Werke AG produced pistols with an expansion-type silencer.

The 9-mm P.08 army pistol had good combat and service performance. But by the beginning of the 1930s, weapons designed in the early 1939th century no longer met the requirements of mass production. For all its merits, the Luger was too expensive and time-consuming to manufacture. Fine-tuning some parts required the manual labor of highly skilled workers, which greatly complicated the production process. In addition, the officials of the German Ministry of Armaments were not satisfied with the high cost. In 32, the Wehrmacht received a Luger with three magazines for 98 Reichsmarks, at the same time the Mauser 70k carbine cost XNUMX Reichsmarks.

In the early 1930s, Carl Walther Waffenfabrik began designing a new semi-automatic pistol chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge. Initially, the designers, by analogy with the very successful 7,65 mm Walther PP pistol, tried to create a blowback pistol (Walther MP). But a free shutter without an excessive increase in weight did not provide the necessary strength, reliability and safety, and therefore, after a series of experiments, Walter specialists settled on using recoil energy with a short barrel stroke. Locking was carried out by a latch, swinging in a vertical plane and located between the tides of the trunk.

The first two hundred "Walters" under the 9-mm Parabellum cartridge, released in 1936 under the name Armee Pistole, had a hidden trigger location.


However, after military tests, a pistol with an open trigger and a double-action trigger mechanism, which had the brand name Heeres Pistolen (HP), went into mass production. This pistol entered service in 1940 as the P.38 (Pistole 38).


9mm P.38 pistol with holster

Depending on the year and place of issue, the mass of the pistol was 870–890 g. Length - 216 mm, barrel length - 125 mm. Magazine capacity - 8 rounds. Bullet muzzle velocity - 355 m / s.

In 1944, by order of the main department of imperial security, a more compact version was created and produced, with a barrel shortened to 73 mm, which had the designation P.38K.

9-mm "Walter" was mass-produced at the enterprises of Germany, Belgium and the Czech Republic. In total, the armed forces of the Third Reich received about 1 million of these pistols.

Initially, P.38 pistols were issued with walnut grip cheeks, but later they were changed to Bakelite. Pistols produced before 1944 were of very good workmanship. At the end of the war, mass production came to the fore, which negatively affected the exterior finish and reliability.

In the troops, the 9-mm "Walter" has proven itself positively. The pistol had sufficient efficiency, good reliability and accuracy of fire, a high degree of safety in handling. But despite the fact that the R.38 was easier and cheaper to manufacture than the R.08, the new German army pistol turned out to be quite complex, had many parts and springs.

For comparison: in the design of the P.38 pistol, there were 11 springs, mostly small, while in the design of its predecessor, the Luger P.08 pistol, there were only 8 springs. In addition, under equal conditions, the R.38 with a barrel length of 125 mm was somewhat inferior in accuracy to the old R.08, which had a barrel length of 120 mm. Due to the thick grip, the P.38 was less comfortable than the P.08 for shooters with a small hand.


In the second half of 1943, the number of 9-mm "Walters" in the army became more than the "Lugers". Nevertheless, both pistols were actively used by all branches of the armed forces and various paramilitary formations until the surrender of Nazi Germany.

Pistols chambered for 7,65 mm Browning: Walther PP, Walther PPK and Mauser HSс


Under the restrictions imposed on Germany after the defeat in the First World War, the German industry could not produce pistols with a caliber of more than 8 mm and with a barrel length of more than 100 mm.

Under these conditions, in 1929, Carl Walther GmbH created a very successful Walther PP pistol (Polizeipistole) chambered for the 7,65 × 17 mm cartridge popular at that time.


Early pre-war 7,65 mm Walther PP pistol

The automatics of the Walther PP pistol are based on the blowback recoil scheme, which was possible due to the use of a relatively low-powered 7,65 mm Browning cartridge. The shutter-casing is held in the extreme forward position by a return spring located on the barrel. The trigger mechanism of the hammer type, double action allows a shot both with a pre-cocked and with a lowered trigger.

The design of the trigger mechanism includes a hammer release and its safety cocking - qualities that are important for safety. There is also an indicator of the presence of a cartridge in the chamber, which is a rod, the back of which protrudes beyond the surface of the shutter-casing above the trigger when the weapon is loaded. Such a device makes the gun much safer, as the owner can tell if a cartridge is in the chamber, even by touch.

The gun turned out not only beautiful, but also compact, simple, easy to handle and safe. With a sent cartridge, it has the ability to quickly open fire. Weight without cartridges is 0,66 kg. Total length - 170 mm. Barrel length - 98 mm. The initial speed of the bullet is 320 m / s. Sighting range - up to 25 m. Magazine for 8 rounds.

Although the Walther PP was not initially considered as a military pistol, its positive qualities, commercial success in the civilian market, popularity with the police and security forces contributed to the fact that the Army Ordnance Department also ordered a large batch of such pistols.


7,65mm Walther PP pistol issued during the war

Although the 7,65 × 17 mm cartridge was significantly inferior in energy to the 9 × 19 mm cartridge, in most cases, staff officers, rear and auxiliary service officers did not need a powerful army-style pistol, and the use of the compact and lightweight Walther PP by those who did not directly participate in combat actions was entirely rational.

Experienced shooters, who had the opportunity to compare the Walther PP with the P.08 and P.38, noted at a distance of up to 20 m in equal conditions the 7,65 mm pistol showed better accuracy than 9 mm pistols. Due to the lighter weight, the weapon chambered for 7,65 mm was easier to control, and the recoil and sound of the shot were easier to bear for the shooter.

At the same time, a 9 mm cartridge with a muzzle energy of a bullet of about 480 J was more than twice as superior as a 7,65 mm cartridge with a bullet energy of about 220 J. This (in combination with a larger caliber) meant that the "Parabellum" 9 -mm bullet, when hit in the same part of the body as a 7,65 mm bullet, has a much greater probability of quickly incapacitating the enemy and depriving him of the opportunity to fire back.

Due to the small dimensions of the 7,65-mm Walther, it was easy to carry covertly, which was appreciated by police and security operatives who carried out operational-search activities in civilian clothes. Pistols Walther PP quite often had crews of armored vehicles, pilots, sailors, couriers and staff officers.

In 1944, due to the lack of pistols chambered for 9 × 19 mm Parabellum 7,65 mm Walther PP pistols, junior officers of the Wehrmacht began to be equipped regularly. Until April 1945, the German government, secret services, police and armed forces received about 200 Walther PP.

In parallel with the 7,65 mm Walther PP, the Walther RRK (Polizeipistole Kriminal) was produced. This more compact and lightweight pistol for the same ammunition appeared in 1931.


7,65 mm pistol Walther RRK

The Walther PRK pistol is designed on the basis of Walther PP. At the same time, the design of the frame and the shutter-casing, which received a different shape of the front part, was somewhat changed. The length of the barrel has decreased by 15 mm, the overall length by 16 mm, and the height by 10 mm. Weight without cartridges - 0,59 kg. The initial speed of the bullet is 310 m / s. Magazine for 7 rounds.

Before the surrender of Germany in May 1945, Carl Walther Waffenfabrik managed to produce about 150 Walther RRK pistols. Such pistols were used by the criminal police and the Gestapo, officers of the Luftwaffe, rear units of the ground forces, as well as command staff.

The success on the market of the Walther PP small-sized self-loading pistol with a self-cocking mechanism could not but give rise to a number of attempts to compete with it. One of the successful examples was the HSc pistol (Hahn-Selbstlspanner pistole ausfurung C - self-cocking pistol, modification C), released by Waffenfabrik.


7,65mm Mauser HSc pistol with holster

These pistols were armed with the highest command staff, secret police operatives, saboteurs, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine officers. The serial production of this elegant weapon began in 1940. Over 250 copies were produced in five years.


The weight of the Mauser HSc pistol without cartridges is 0,585 kg. Length - 162 mm. Barrel length - 86 mm. Magazine capacity - 8 rounds. Width - 27 mm, which is 3 mm less than Walther PP.

Like other examples of this caliber, the Mauser HSc is a self-loading pistol built on automatic blowback and has a double-action trigger mechanism.

The shape of the pistol and sights are optimized for concealed carry. The front sight of small height is hidden in the longitudinal groove and does not protrude beyond the contour of the weapon. The trigger is almost completely hidden by the bolt, and only a small flat spoke protrudes outward, allowing you to cock the trigger manually if necessary, but practically eliminating the possibility of catching the trigger on clothes when drawing the weapon.

A non-automatic safety lever is mounted at the rear of the shutter. The lower position of the flag corresponds to the "fuse" state (the drummer is blocked and removed from under the trigger), the upper one - "fire". There is also an automatic fuse that blocks the trigger when the magazine is removed, which ensures safety when disassembling or unloading the weapon.

Pistols of early production were distinguished by excellent workmanship and surface treatment, walnut handle cheeks were placed on them, in 1944, to reduce the cost of production, the production of pistols with plastic cheeks began.

Post-war use of German pistols Luger P.08, Walther R.38, Walther PP, Walther PPK and Mauser HSс


German pistols were a very desirable trophy for both Soviet and American soldiers. Unlike captured machine guns, rifles and machine guns, in the Red Army, the "short-barreled" was not taken into account so strictly and was often hidden by military personnel directly involved in hostilities or located in the front line.

It was very prestigious for a Soviet officer to have a Walther, Mauser or Parabellum pistol as a personal weapon, and fighters at the front often presented captured pistols to deserving commanders. Also, short-barreled trophy weapons were usually a means of stimulation in the course of communication with quartermasters, when it was necessary to obtain scarce property, or served as a valuable gift for higher commanders.

After the end of hostilities, most of the German-made pistols in hand were seized, leaving only official award weapons, and by the beginning of the 1950s, captured pistols were almost never used in the Soviet Army.

After culling and inventory, German-made pistols were mainly distributed to the armories of military districts. A significant part was placed at the disposal of the state security and internal affairs bodies, and a very small amount ended up in the armories of film studios and museums.

Short-barreled weapons intended for filming in films were altered so that they could only be fired with blank cartridges, and at the same time, automation was ensured. Museum exhibits were brought into non-working condition while maintaining their appearance.

It is reliably known that many state security officers who fought against the "forest brothers" in the Baltic states and nationalists in Western Ukraine had 9-mm German pistols as personal weapons.

Captured pistols Walther PP and Walther PPK for a long time were the personal weapons of Soviet diplomatic couriers and prosecutors. Several thousand compact 7,65-mm pistols were donated to award funds, and they are still on the list of weapons that can be awarded to senior law enforcement officers, deputies and high-ranking officials.

Things were different with the Allies; after the end of the war, many American servicemen brought with them captured pistols from Europe to the United States.


American soldiers inspect captured German pistols captured in Berchtesgaden

At present, a significant number of such weapons have been preserved in good condition, and German-made pistols often pop up at gun auctions. The cost of original copies that are in good technical condition and have a confirmed history, reaches tens, and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The 9mm Parabellum and Walther pistols had a resource of up to 10 shots and, with proper care, could be used for a very long time. German-made pistols were actively supplied to third countries, widely distributed throughout the world and used in many conflicts.

For example, R.08 and R.38 were officially in service with the Afghan army and, according to the recollections of Soviet veterans who performed international duty as part of a limited contingent, Afghan officers had such pistols in the 1980s.

At least until the mid-1950s, Lugers and Walthers were used in the armed forces of European countries liberated from Nazi occupation, in the GDR and the FRG.

In the post-war period, P.08 pistols were assembled in France at the MAS factory in Chatellerault, for which machine tools and a large number of semi-finished products were taken from the German Oberndorf. For the French armed forces, more than 1949 pistols were assembled until 4, some of them were stored in the warehouses of the gendarmerie until the mid-000s.

Until the end of the 1980s, the R.08 pistols remained in service in Portugal, Sweden and Norway. A very significant number of "Parabellum" is in the possession of individuals in countries with liberal gun laws.

In 1957, the Bundeswehr adopted the P.1 pistol, which differed from the early Walther P.38 in an aluminum frame. The mass of an unloaded pistol decreased to 770 g. The improvement of the 9-mm "Walter" in Germany did not end there. In 1975, a reinforcing transverse hexagonal rod was introduced into the design of the pistol, located in the frame in the area where the barrel locking larva was located.


9 mm pistol R.4

In the early 1970s, the P.4 pistol was created for the German police, which was a modification of the P.1 pistol with a barrel shortened to 104 mm and an improved safety mechanism. The mass of this pistol was 740 g. The release of the R.4 continued until 1981.


For concealed carrying by employees of the anti-terrorist units of the FRG, an even shorter-barreled version was created, which had a barrel only 90 mm long, barely protruding forward from the short casing of the shutter.

In addition to Germany, R.38 pistols were produced in France. Manurhin manufactured them under license from Walther. In France itself, they were used to a limited extent and were mainly exported.

Even before the war, the 7,65 mm pistols Walther PP and Walther PPK won their niche in the world market in the segment of compact service and civilian pistols. After the surrender of Germany, the production of these pistols in the late 1940s was launched in France, Hungary and the GDR. At various times, 7,65-mm "Walters" were also produced in Romania and Turkey.

The French company Manurhin produced 7,65 mm Walters until 1989. The Walther company itself revived the production of such pistols in the early 1950s and carried it out until the end of the twentieth century.


7,65 mm Hungarian pistol Femaru 48M

The Hungarian version of the 7,65 mm Walther PP pistol, manufactured by Femaru, received the designation 48M. These pistols were supplied to the Hungarian police and security forces.

In China, a copy of the Walther PPK has been produced since the early 1950s under the designation Type 52.


7,65 mm Chinese pistol Type 52

The Type 52 pistol was used by Chinese police and high-ranking officers who needed a more compact and light personal weapon than the Type 51 pistol, then in service with the PLA, which is a copy of the TT. The Type 52 pistol differed from the German Walther PPK in much worse workmanship and surface finish.

Licensed production of the Walther PPK in the United States began in the early 1970s. The release of pistols was carried out by Interarms and Smith & Wesson.

The assembly of 7,65 mm Mauser HS pistols with Heckler und Koch GmbH was resumed in Germany in 1968 and continued until 1977. Most of the issued pistols were sold to private individuals in the United States, where the pistols were supplied in two surface finishes - blued and nickel-plated.

To be continued ...
59 comments
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  1. +12
    15 July 2023 05: 25
    Eh Sergey Sergey ... these pistols are the dream of any collector ... if not for our draconian weapons laws, I would also have got a German Luger ... alas, all that remains is to wipe your saliva and envy the Americans who have outstanding rarities in their collections.
    1. +12
      15 July 2023 06: 10
      I went to gunbroker.com, there is a P 1908, and quite a few. Not cheap, you won't find less than $2000. These are bought mainly for the collection. It is uncomfortable to wear, large, heavy, and the mechanism is open, it will smear the pocket with oil, and the holster is even more weight and size. I'm off topic, I collect weapons of the Red Army.
      1. +7
        15 July 2023 11: 53
        Quote: Nagan
        smears the pocket with oil, and the holster is even more weight and size
        You can't carry a gun in your pocket, only in a holster.
    2. +4
      15 July 2023 23: 22
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      ...if it wasn't for our draconian gun laws, I'd also get a German Luger...

      Perhaps we have lost great opportunities in this matter, the Americans would smoke on the sidelines.

      As far as I remember, this issue has already been specifically covered in VO:
      https://topwar.ru/151936-trofejnoe-oruzhie-vermahta-ispolzujut-pri-stroitelstve-glavnogo-hrama-vs.html

      And the essence of the question is this: "Experts call the idea of ​​​​the Ministry of Defense barbaric ..." there is still a cool video there:

      https://zebra-tv.ru/novosti/jizn/utilizatsiya-trofeynogo-oruzhiya-s-vladimirskikh-skladov-varvarskaya-pereplavka-istorii/

      Perhaps someone from the advanced will tell how the problem was resolved?
  2. +10
    15 July 2023 05: 34
    At 7 hi from Argentina.
    The author writes: "The cost of original copies, which are in good technical condition and have a confirmed history, reaches tens, and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars."
    Today I did not find this weapon for sale in our country ... but the prices that I often saw .... up to 1000 bucks.
    Well, less often, or very rarely up to 1500 evergreens.
    1. +15
      15 July 2023 06: 14
      Quote: stroybat ZABVO
      At 7 hi from Argentina.
      The author writes: "The cost of original copies, which are in good technical condition and have a confirmed history, reaches tens, and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars."
      Today I did not find this weapon for sale in our country ... but the prices that I often saw .... up to 1000 bucks.
      Well, less often, or very rarely up to 1500 evergreens.

      The gold pistol that belonged to the Nazi Hermann Goering is put up for auction at the Rock Island Auction. The organizers of the auction expect to receive from 250 to 400 thousand dollars for it. And there are many such examples.
      1. +7
        15 July 2023 09: 31
        Sergey, thanks for the new cycle! I read it with pleasure!
        Regards, Vlad!
      2. +8
        15 July 2023 10: 18
        Sergey, thanks, as always, it's a pleasure to read and the material is cool. I remember somehow
        I'll give you parabellum. We will go to the mountains
      3. +2
        15 July 2023 13: 39
        Quote: Bongo
        The gold pistol that belonged to the Nazi Hermann Goering is put up for auction at the Rock Island Auction. The organizers of the auction expect to receive from 250 to 400 thousand dollars for it. And there are many such examples.

        Well, this is no longer a weapon, but a purely related history, like the notorious chips from the Cross in the Middle Ages. If it were possible to fish out the hamburger that Elvis Presley choked on from the toilet, he, too, could be pushed in for a million.
        1. +2
          16 July 2023 00: 06
          Quote: Negro
          ...on which Elvis Presley choked...

          Do you have there, in Ukraine, the life story of Elvis Presley is also alternative? If you want to tell what he died from, then medical specialists have already discussed this issue in our Russian media. But you live in your parallel reality, everything is itching for you.
  3. +8
    15 July 2023 05: 42
    And the Walther PPK was the favorite pistol of 007 James Bond. wassat
    1. +15
      15 July 2023 06: 20
      Quote: Amateur
      And the Walther PPK was the favorite pistol of 007 James Bond. wassat

      Initially, Ian Fleming, who was poorly versed in small arms, armed James Bond with a Beretta 418 caliber .25ACP pistol.
      1. +7
        15 July 2023 07: 28
        Quote: Bongo
        Beretta 418 in .25ACP.

        It will do to shoot yourself, or to fill up someone at point-blank range. In the latter case, a control in the back of the head is highly recommended, you never know if the bullet gets stuck in [a notebook, a pocket Bible, a pack of bucks, otherwise _________ (write in)].
        1. +10
          15 July 2023 08: 29
          else
          - gets into a metal dental crown Yes
      2. +7
        15 July 2023 08: 07
        Quote: Bongo
        Ian Fleming, who was poorly versed in small arms, armed James Bond with a Beretta 418 caliber .25ACP pistol.

        He also tried to slip TT to Bond.
  4. +10
    15 July 2023 05: 50
    I’m probably ahead of the Author and there will probably be articles about other weapons of the Wehrmacht that have spread all over the world after WWII, but before my eyes is a frame from the “Spark” of the Vietnam War against American aggression. In the photo, a fighter fires anti-aircraft fire from an MG-42 with a drum store from the shoulder of his second number. Surely the photo is staged because of the shooting angle, the machine gunner has a very expressive look!
    1. +10
      15 July 2023 06: 14
      Quote: andrewkor
      I’m probably ahead of the Author and there will probably be articles about other weapons of the Wehrmacht that have spread all over the world after WWII ...

      Be. Yes
  5. +7
    15 July 2023 06: 56
    What pistol did Adolf shoot himself with?
    Not from "Walter - PP"?
    1. +18
      15 July 2023 07: 05
      Throughout his life, Hitler owned several pistols. But at the time of the storming of Berlin by Soviet troops, the Fuhrer constantly carried with him 2 conventional serial "Walters", caliber 7.65 mm and 6.35 mm. Hitler carried one of these pistols in his inner pocket, the second in a holster on his belt. Hitler's adjutant Otto Günsche said during interrogation that Hitler shot himself from a 7.65 mm sample. After the death of the Fuhrer, Günsche gave the gun to Arthur Axman, head of the Hitler Youth. On the night of May 2, Axman, leaving Berlin, hid both pistols, burying them in rubble on the railway. Axman surrendered to the Soviet troops, so he got rid of his weapons in advance. Unfortunately, he could not indicate the place where he hid the pistols. At the moment, they are considered lost, which does not prevent various "Walthers of Hitler" from periodically popping up at various auctions and being sold for a tidy sum.
      1. +9
        15 July 2023 07: 07
        Thank you leader!
        Here is a comment!
        I am impressed... hi
      2. +7
        15 July 2023 20: 14
        Quote: Crowe
        At the moment, they are considered lost, which does not prevent various "Walthers of Hitler" from periodically popping up at various auctions and being sold for a tidy sum.

        We regularly sell "Goering guns", fortunately, a lot of captured guns from Germany were brought in at one time. wink
    2. -4
      15 July 2023 07: 20
      Quote: Paul Siebert
      What pistol did Adolf shoot himself with?
      Not from "Walter - PP"?

      from the ampoule gypsy feces. lol
      1. +4
        15 July 2023 21: 56
        Quote: Nagan
        Quote: Paul Siebert
        What pistol did Adolf shoot himself with?
        Not from "Walter - PP"?

        From an ampoule with gypsy feces

        Lev Bezymensky wrote in detail about the last days of Hitler and the events of establishing and concealing the truth about his death in a very interesting book "Operation Myth". It can be freely downloaded. Its author apparently published it with concern, observing the growth of sympathy for Nazism in Russia during the years of Yeltsin's rule. Apparently, therefore, there is no prosecution for copyright infringement. Also interesting are the memoirs of E. Rzhevskaya, where for the first time in the USSR the events associated with the identification of Hitler's corpse are described in some detail. E. Rzhevskaya was able to bypass the ban on the publication of such materials introduced by I.V. Stalin in 1945. Largely thanks to her in the USSR, information about the last days of the top of the Third Reich became public. Some consider her memoirs a civic feat or a historian's feat.
    3. +5
      15 July 2023 09: 47
      What pistol did Adolf shoot himself with?

      Hitler shot himself with a 7,65 caliber Walter-PPK.
      Adolf Hitler committed suicide between 15:26 pm and 15:30 pm on Monday, April 30, 1945, by shooting himself with a Walther PPK personal pistol in his Führerbunker in Berlin

      The version of Hitler being poisoned (or that he poisoned himself and shot himself at the same time), by the way, is now refuted by many. It is alleged that only Eva Braun was poisoned.
  6. +3
    15 July 2023 09: 58
    Did curators from the USA and Great Britain send various kinds of "Forest brothers" such "toys" for "fighting the Soviet system"?
    Or did they have enough supplies from the "previous owner"?
  7. +7
    15 July 2023 10: 10
    Pistols chambered for 9 × 19 mm Parabellum: Luger P.08 and Walther R.38

    Here I would also mention the German volkspistole - Walther Volkspistole and Mauser Volkspistole.



    1. +5
      15 July 2023 11: 32
      The focus of the article is about the post-war use of pistols. As far as I understand, pistols for the Volkssturm were not mass-produced, so it is logical that the author did not include them in the article.

      Volkpistole (from German - "People's pistol") - a German semi-automatic pistol of the Second World War, which was developed for the needs of the Volkssturm. The development was carried out by the concerns Mauser, Gustloff-Werke and Carl Walther. Production, however, did not go beyond a few prototypes.

      Although there is a next part, perhaps they will be there.
      1. +2
        15 July 2023 13: 44
        Thanks for the quote, but Wikipedia, as a source of information, does not interest me.
        The focus of the article is about the post-war use of pistols.

        Pistols could be used in different ways. For example, technical solutions developed during the creation of the Mauser experimental M7082 Volkspistole (1944) were used in the post-war Heckler & Koch P7 and Steyr GB.

        1. +2
          16 July 2023 17: 10
          Thanks for the quote, but Wikipedia, as a source of information, does not interest me.

          Please, in this case, as far as I understand, Wikipedia is right. A quote is just an illustration.
          And as for
          were used in the post-war Heckler & Koch P7 and Steyr GB

          then a pistol, the production of which began in 1976, can hardly be categorized
          ... pistols manufactured and developed in Nazi Germany

          hi
  8. +5
    15 July 2023 11: 46
    eh, the free sale of pistols would be introduced into the Russian Federation .. and self-defense and the country's economy would rise ..
  9. +11
    15 July 2023 11: 49
    "Well, what can I offer, gentlemen? Five MP: four 40s, one 38th. All fired. All in full ammunition. Grenades: anti-personnel fragmentation grenades. They misfire, about 50 to 50. Faust cartridges - two, sorry, "I didn't check. Here are the pistols: four Walthers, one Parabellum. This is from an import. And now a domestic manufacturer: a Degtyarev light machine gun, count it in oil. Four PPSh - a heavy, but reliable, lethal machine. Tula Tokarev, aka TT, today one, I'm sorry, they take it apart very quickly. But there is a revolver, but it's completely unreliable. Time has worn down the firing mechanism. Mosin rifles, I think, will not interest you.
    - Listen, where did all this come from?
    - Echoes of War.

    https://yandex.ru/video/preview/15288553009435112906
  10. +2
    15 July 2023 13: 36
    Informative. I did not expect interest in the short barrel from this author.

    In principle, before the advent of Glock, the PMV / WWII short barrel could be considered modern - except for models such as Nagant, for example. Yes, and now he does his job. So the successful German models, the same PPK, simply continued to be produced, in the original or scratched by the communists. Like their plus or minus peers: TT, HighPower, M1911.
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    2. +1
      17 July 2023 21: 18
      Deleted!? No hello, no goodbye. And no traces in your personal account. At least there was a warning before. What did Papa Pege bring to ...
      I'm sorry, there is a remote in my personal account, I didn't notice at first.
    3. 0
      18 July 2023 20: 37
      You, I see everything is itchy. So the question remains open - what and from whom did the communists scratch-scratch? At the same time, and, if you please, answer the question about the "principles of modernity" in relation to the short barrel.
      Regarding the deleted posts, I did not expect that I got to the point like this:
      Quote: Negro
      If Russia ends where our boys stand...

      Excuse me, but it was not necessary then to introduce yourself as a male nickname if you blurt out like that. I will not give here the reason why I am charged with rudeness and insult here. I understand more than I write here.
  11. +2
    15 July 2023 13: 44
    Quote from larsikkot
    eh, the free sale of pistols would be introduced into the Russian Federation .. and self-defense and the country's economy would rise ..

    Don't... goofy students and schoolchildren will start genocide in educational institutions. hi
    Part of the population of Russia is categorically contraindicated in the possession of any weapon ... as practice has shown, this ends with the massacre of innocent people.
    1. +6
      15 July 2023 14: 06
      students are garbage, it is worth remembering about pensioners ....
      1. +5
        15 July 2023 14: 07
        Quote: faiver
        Retirees must be remembered...

        Retirees have an award.
    2. +4
      15 July 2023 18: 42
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Part of the population of Russia is categorically contraindicated in the possession of any weapon ..

      Alexei! It is curious to know your opinion about .... scooters. More precisely, about those who ride them on sidewalks. I’m not talking about thoughts if this * body * appears in front of your car! You rented a license, you pay insurance, an article is crying for you / in which case, God forbid !!!/, and these? I'm talking about weapons.
    3. Aag
      +5
      15 July 2023 18: 45
      "...Parts of the population of Russia are categorically contraindicated in possession of any weapon..."
      It’s just right to take away cars from some ...
      1. +2
        15 July 2023 20: 14
        Quote: AAG
        to select

        To be honest? Well, these .... under-bikers !! Really. Got it !!!!
        1. Aag
          +2
          16 July 2023 21: 34
          Quote: ArchiPhil
          Quote: AAG
          to select

          To be honest? Well, these .... under-bikers !! Really. Got it !!!!

          [Quote] [/ quote]
          Children on mokiks, scooters, scooters, ATVs - got their parents brainless!
          Do they feel sorry for their children? Without instilling - not even trying to instill respect for traffic rules, other road users - to buy expensive toys for their children, - IMHO, - associatively.
          Sorry - it seems to be off topic of the article ... But, in my opinion, everything is strongly interconnected.
          If a certain madam drives a car (no matter what brand, and cost) driving with false claws, while chatting on a smartphone ... And in the front seat her child rages ...
          Even ceteris paribus, in the event of an accident, who will be to blame?
          The answer is obvious - who has fewer "connections" ... Feudalism?
    4. 0
      16 August 2023 13: 11
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      population of Russia is categorically contraindicated possession

      First of all, possession of a fountain pen, keyboard and language is contraindicated for this part. And then they came up with 2,5 gigabytes of laws, and the majority are against man.
  12. +8
    15 July 2023 18: 08
    Hi all! Friends! A message from many beloved, but repressed MorKat.


    Do not judge strictly, for? I am only ... a transmitter. bully
    1. +8
      15 July 2023 18: 11
      Something went wrong. Recently, more and more often.
  13. +7
    15 July 2023 18: 41
    Quote: Negro
    Retirees have an award.

    Glock from Shoigu? lol
  14. +5
    15 July 2023 19: 24
    Where members of rhe RAF terorist muedered vith any of theese pistols
  15. +4
    15 July 2023 21: 42
    Excellent stuff. Let's imagine that the former submarine commander who was shot dead the other day would have the right to such a short barrel ... That the commander of the territorial defense who was shot dead in the Belgorod region would have at least a legal old TT ... Like other residents of the border area ...
  16. +4
    16 July 2023 17: 40
    hi
    As always, an interesting article!
    The 9mm Parabellum and Walther pistols had a resource of up to 10 shots and, with proper care, could be used for a very long time. German-made pistols were actively supplied to third countries, widely distributed throughout the world and used in many conflicts.
    ...
    At least until the mid-1950s, Lugers and Walthers were used in the armed forces of European countries liberated from Nazi occupation, in the GDR and the FRG.

    Unfortunately, all the "Lugers" and "Walters" that came across were from the "beginning of the 20th century" and were in poor condition. They were given with the words "well, see for yourself, there are almost no rifling ... if you want, but we do not recommend it." IMHO, "not only everyone could survive until the 21st century."


    Only one P38, with the hallmarks of the GDR of the 50s of the last century, was more or less efficient. IMHO, by the way, in comparison with the TT P38, it is less "kicking" and more "grip". Although, compared to the TT, there are a lot of things that are "non-bouncing and grasping".
    For a long time, since Alain Delon in "Police Story" I wanted to try feel P38, it was not in vain that the crook demanded it. feel ...


    And a bit of Ian and VogottenWeapon on P08 production (Ian has a lot more on different Lugers, from the first to the last - "including but not limited to" .45)

    https://youtu.be/rIX1EL1hTmE

    And from Ian about the production of the P38:

    https://youtu.be/JXAMma6mUq8

    And a little about trophies

    https://youtu.be/dFR3osqn8AI
    1. 0
      17 July 2023 21: 13
      Quote: Wildcat
      Unfortunately, all the "Lugers" and "Walters" that came across were from the "beginning of the 20th century" and were in poor condition. They were given with the words "well, see for yourself, there are almost no rifling ... if you want, but we do not recommend it."

      The reason, in my opinion, is that the poor condition of the barrels of Wehrmacht captured pistols is due to the fact that the military production of 9X19 Luger cartridges involved the manufacture of jacketless bullets for them from sintered zinc powder. I can imagine the condition of the barrels of German submachine guns.
  17. +2
    16 July 2023 23: 43
    It was very prestigious for a Soviet officer to have a Walther, Mauser or Parabellum pistol as a personal weapon, and fighters at the front often presented captured pistols to deserving commanders. Also, short-barreled trophy weapons were usually a means of stimulation in the course of communication with quartermasters, when it was necessary to obtain scarce property, or served as a valuable gift for higher commanders.


    Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko (Voroshilovsky shooter 2nd degree (1939), Medal "For Military Merit" (26.04.1942/16.07.1942/1942), Order of Lenin (1942/1942/1911), Medal "For the Defense of Odessa" (1942), Medal "For the Defense of Sevastopol" (8.07.1943), diploma of the Military Council of the Army (1941), pistol "Colt M1945", rifle "Winchester", knife of the English company "Kinfolks" (13.06.1952), Mantle of Honorary student of Oxford University, award weapon - Mosin sniper rifle (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX), Title "Hero of the Soviet Union" with a distinction medal "Gold Star", Order of Lenin, Medal "For the Victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War of XNUMX-XNUMX", Medal "For Military Merit" (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)) confirms this practice: "The artillery major rushed out of the house, hearing shots and screams. The bullet pierced the bridge of his nose. No wonder I spent so much time studying this position. The old huntsman also shot, and quite accurately. He laid down the orderly. Through a clearing covered with the corpses of the Nazis, we rushed to the house. I pulled out the major's documents from the pocket of his tunic, cut off one epaulette and the metal Order of the Knight's Cross with a Finnish knife, and took out an officer's pistol "Walter" from a black leather holster on his belt. ....
    We managed to make out something in the documents of the fascist officer. For example, his name, surname, date of birth, places of battles where the major participated. ... "Yes, my dear Baron Clement Karl Ludwig von Steingel, this is not France for you"...
    First of all, I carefully examined the Walter pistol. The weapon of this system was in my hands for the first time. With Romanian officers, I somehow came across rather clumsy Austrian Steyrs of the 1912 model of the year, light Italian Berettas of the 1934 model of the year, powerful German Luger Parabellums of the 1908 model of the year, Belgian Nagant revolvers of the 1895 model of the year, which I didn’t I love because of the difficulties in reloading their cartridge drum.
    "Walter P38", of course, was one of the best products of the German military industry during the Second World War. It was compact, easy to handle and maintain, suitable for a wide variety of tasks. The pistol was distinguished by the presence of a reliable fuse. In addition, he acted with a soft pull on the trigger. Its trigger mechanism allowed self-cocking and pre-cocking. As it turned out later, Captain Bezrodny also had a positive attitude towards the Walthers. ...
    Taking advantage of his good mood, I asked a question about the forester and recommended that he be accepted into the permanent service, despite his unacceptable age. I supported the request with a gift - a pistol of Baron von Steingel, which produced the desired effect. The captain, hiding the gift in the table, promised to discuss this matter with the regiment commander, Major Matusevich.
    In the end, Anastas Artashesovich Vartanov, who voluntarily joined the ranks of the Red Army, was recognized as a fighter in our platoon.
    "
  18. +2
    23 July 2023 15: 59
    I can add a few observations from practical life:
    The 08 pistol is an excellent weapon that could be shot in the eye of a squirrel. The problem is only with ´=maintenance and pistol cartridge
    The barrel of the Walter p-38 was very successful, the charge is satisfactory and the stopping effect of the projectile is good
    Walter PPK, a pistol without obvious flaws, I had for a long time as a personal weapon"
    Walter PP, a weapon intended for officers, is somewhat more reliable, but shoots perfectly. I have a small hand and cannot handle heavy weapons.
    I really liked the Russian TT pistol, I had several mods with a longer magazine. The bullet had great penetrating power.
    My favorite was the old Nagant revolver, light, flawless shooting.
    The Italian Berreta was too heavy and uncomfortable.
    I was close to pistols, we had a gunsmith in our regiment who kept all these weapons in stock. In 1969, unfortunately, everything had to be written off. This is just my brief look at these shotguns and I didn't mention the long magazines and pistol-carbine option. am
  19. 0
    24 July 2023 16: 17
    The history of the P.08 pistol dates back to 1898, when Georg Luger designed the legendary Parabellum pistol based on the Borchardt C93 pistol.

    Its production was started by DWM, since 1910 it was produced for the needs of the German army at the Royal Rifle Factory in Erfurt. After the First World War, the Erfurt Arsenal production line was forcibly taken over by Simson & Co. In Zula, which produced the pistol until 1933. Subsequently, the production of the P.08 pistol was established at the Mauser company, which produced it until 1942. The rarest P.08 pistol was produced by Krieghoff in Suhl, which was the exclusive supplier of the Luftwaffe. Only about 1935 P.1945 pistols were produced between 12–000, equal to the monthly production of a Mauser.
  20. 0
    14 August 2023 12: 38
    What a pickle this is! And - nothing, did not prevent the Nazis from living such diversity.
  21. 0
    15 August 2023 04: 56
    if not for our draconian gun laws

    Why not give the CS to hunters who have rifles to begin with?! Why the hell can't I, who have six rifled barrels, have a fart spitting at 50m?
  22. 0
    5 September 2023 12: 44
    Quote: Bongo
    And there are many such examples.

    In Moscow's Artemis, a few years ago, a personalized dagger of the homosexual Nazi Ernst Röhm was sold for 150 thousand rubles.
    Was in the window for a long time.
    1. 0
      21 January 2024 00: 15
      I suspect that such “personalized” dirks (and not only the above-mentioned Rem) are now a dime a dozen in all countries and villages! And we won’t talk about prices - the range varies widely.
  23. 0
    6 January 2024 16: 22
    I liked the Luger, it hits accurately and doesn’t throw around, and it’s very comfortable for the hand.
  24. 0
    6 January 2024 16: 22
    I liked the Luger, it hits accurately and doesn’t throw around, and it’s very comfortable for the hand.
  25. 0
    21 January 2024 00: 40
    Eh, my friend, you are naive. Indeed, after the war, captured holster weapons (as easily hidden from accounting) were ordered to be handed over to all military personnel, with the exception of the award ones. But how much of it was actually in the hands of the post-war population - only God knew about it, and he remained silent. And it was not easy to part with such a valuable front-line “souvenir” for the soldiers who survived the war hell. I remember once (in the early 60s), showing boyish curiosity, our company of six cousins ​​staged a “shmon” (in the absence of our grandmother, who had gone to the market) and discovered the hiding place of our uncle, a front-line soldier. In this “cache” we were most attracted to the Solingen folding knife, which the Germans equipped their scouts with, as well as the P-08 with a half-loaded clip and a full box of cartridges for it. Shocked by what we found, we put everything back, closing the secret place. Already as adults, we tried to find out the fate of the stored captured weapons brought from the war. They never found out the truth: the grandmother said that the son-in-law simply drank it away, having sold it to someone before that, and the uncle was indignant that the mother-in-law drowned the pistol with cartridges in the pond. The echo of similar events was reminiscent of last year. During the move to a new apartment, my friend’s grandchildren took out an old cupboard in the trash, in which they discovered a secret drawer with a pistol hidden in it (apparently by their great-grandfather). True, it was not a Parabellum, not a Walter, but a hefty Mauser S-96.