Mobility and cross-country ability: combine the advantages of wheeled and tracked self-propelled artillery mounts (ACS)

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Mobility and cross-country ability: combine the advantages of wheeled and tracked self-propelled artillery mounts (ACS)
Image of the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik"


The Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) in Ukraine has clearly shown the critical importance of artillery to achieve victory in hostilities, especially given the fact that, for a number of reasons, aerospace forces (VKS) of the Russian Federation (RF) cannot seize complete air supremacy over the territory of Ukraine. Despite the fact that in the middle of the last century, the First Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU N. S. Khrushchev, fascinated by rockets, almost destroyed Soviet artillery, she still survived. Much of what was created during the years of the existence of the USSR is now participating in the battles on the fields of Ukraine, and on both sides. Who would have known then that everything would turn out like this ...



Let's get back to reality. And in this reality, the Armed Forces (AF) of the Russian Federation require a lot of artillery. Mobile artillery is desirable, because, as practice shows, in the conditions of the use of modern means of counter-battery combat and kamikaze unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), towed artillery systems do not last long.


The remains of the American towed howitzer M777

There are three main options for ground artillery systems - towed artillery systems, self-propelled artillery mounts (ACS) on a tracked chassis and ACS on a wheeled chassis.

In Russia, towed artillery systems were the most common, followed by self-propelled guns on a tracked chassis, the number of which in the troops is gradually growing, there are no self-propelled guns on a wheeled chassis in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces) yet.

The problem of using towed artillery systems has already been discussed in the material Towed artillery: a new life in the format of wheeled self-propelled guns. In short, on the basis of towed artillery systems, "ersatz" self-propelled guns can potentially be created by installing towed artillery systems on wheeled chassis. They will not have all the capabilities of "real" self-propelled guns, but they will be able to quickly advance to a given area, relatively quickly fire two or three shots with unguided projectiles or one (preferably) guided projectile. Of course, they will not replace “real” self-propelled guns, but they may well occupy their niche - can’t they turn them into targets for the enemy and send them to be smelted?


SAU 2S22 "Bogdan" - this artillery system is just like the "ersatz" self-propelled guns, made on the basis of a towed artillery gun

Potentially towed artillery systems can also be installed on a tracked chassis, but is there any point in this?

However, we will not talk about towed artillery, but about what kind of self-propelled guns we need - tracked or wheeled?

Tracks or wheels


The debate about which self-propelled artillery mounts, wheeled or tracked, the armed forces need has been going on for a long time.

Adepts of the caterpillar chassis say that wheeled vehicles have much worse cross-country ability, that they can only function in areas with a developed road network, and this is true. Proponents of wheeled chassis talk about lower operating costs and higher mobility.

What can be added here?

Actually, both sides are right. Tracked vehicles really have more cross-country ability, and wheeled vehicles have more mobility. Based on this, the conclusion suggests itself - the troops must have both types of self-propelled guns, both on wheeled and on tracked chassis.

There is one more nuance - on the Internet it is easy to find a huge number of destroyed Ukrainian towed artillery systems and self-propelled artillery installations on a caterpillar chassis. And how many videos confirming the destruction of HIMARS wheeled multiple launch rocket systems? Yes, HIMARS shoots farther than most cannon artillery systems, but considering that they sometimes hit deep into Russian territory, they still approach the front line at the range of our artillery shot or the operation of the Lancet-3 kamikaze UAV. Suitable, but not destroyed, that is, the point is still in mobility.

Additionally, how many videos on the Internet with confirmed cases of the destruction of the French CAESAR wheeled self-propelled guns supplied to the armed forces of Ukraine (AFU)? Let's just say, a little, rather, these are isolated cases.

It seems that the RF Armed Forces are also leaning towards this option, since recently there has been more and more information about the development of the latest Russian artillery systems, including those on a wheeled chassis.


Projects of Russian self-propelled guns on a wheeled chassis

We are not talking about a replacement, but rather an addition, the only question is when and in what quantities Russian wheeled self-propelled guns will get into the troops.

Perhaps there are alternative solutions?

Mobility and patency


Tracked vehicles are not designed to move under their own power over long distances - the resource of its undercarriage and engine life are quite limited, not to mention the fact that after the passage of columns of tracked vehicles, only memories will remain from the roads. And the average speed of movement of tracked vehicles is low. Therefore, tracked vehicles are usually delivered to the battlefield by other vehicles, of course, as far as possible.

If it is necessary to transfer a certain amount of armored vehicles quickly and far, then a transport vehicle is used. aviation. If far and many, but slower, then the ships and trains.

In the area between the airfield, port or railway platform, the movement of tracked vehicles is provided by special trucks - trawls, tank carriers.


self-propelled guns on the trawl

In the United States, tank carriers are used much more actively than in Russia - yes, rail transport is cheaper than road transport, but tank carriers provide much more flexibility and secrecy of movement. Savings on trawls for tracked military equipment are comparable to the acquisition of an ultra-modern fifth-generation fighter in order to later use it to use unguided bombs.

The question arises - if the caterpillar self-propelled guns are on a wheeled trawl, then why not fire directly from it?

If we talk about a conventional trawl, then it is clear that the recoil from a shot, if it does not damage the trawl, will make the shooting accuracy unacceptable. But after all, the trawl can be finalized, and this will require minimal effort.

In fact, the main improvements will be reduced to strengthening the platform by integrating a frame into its design and installing supporting jacks that ensure the trawl is “hanging out” when firing - there can be 4-8 units depending on the caliber of the self-propelled guns that will work from this trawl (on some trawls, such devices are installed initially, the only question is whether they can withstand the return and whether they can level the “horizon”).


The trawl designed to ensure the firing of caterpillar self-propelled guns "from the wheels" must be finalized - the platform has been strengthened (shown in red), jacks are installed (shown in blue)

How can combat work be carried out by a tracked self-propelled gun from a wheeled trawl?

Approximately the same way as, apparently, the Armed Forces of Ukraine use multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) HIMARS.

A caterpillar self-propelled gun, fixed on a trawl, is advanced from a disguised base point to a firing position. The crew can be located directly in the ACS or in the passenger compartment of the trawl cabin (if there is one or will be mounted additionally).

Upon arrival at the position, the trawl immediately turns in the direction of reverse movement and hangs out the trailer with the caterpillar self-propelled guns on jacks. The crew takes jobs, enters installations and opens fire on the target. Depending on the distance to the enemy and the possible risks of counter-battery fire, a given number of shots are fired. Immediately after the last shot, the trawl removes the jacks (of course, the process must be automated) and leaves, together with the self-propelled guns, to the basing site as quickly as possible.

It can be assumed that under such a scenario of using tracked self-propelled guns, losses from counter-battery fire and from enemy kamikaze UAVs will be minimal. At the same time, the smaller the firing range, the more relevant for the self-propelled guns will be such an operating scenario.

Of course, if necessary, the caterpillar self-propelled guns can be unloaded from the trawl, move around and conduct combat work independently. In this case, the trawl can go to the base and wait there or be used to deliver fuel and ammunition to the front line in special containers installed in place of the self-propelled guns. The option of installing an armored compartment on the trawl for additional ACS ammunition may be considered, if its dimensions and carrying capacity allow it.

What tracked self-propelled guns can be placed on trawls with the possibility of firing?

Almost any, as we have already said above, the shorter the firing range, the higher the need for mobility of self-propelled guns. On the other hand, self-propelled guns with a longer firing range when operated from a wheeled trawl will provide fire impact on the enemy over a much larger area.

It can be assumed that it will be possible to ensure the operation of tracked self-propelled guns of 122 mm and 152 mm caliber from the trawl without any problems, since self-propelled guns of this caliber on a wheeled chassis exist and are actively used. The possibility of operating such artillery systems from the trawl as the 2S4 Tyulpan mortar of 240 mm caliber and the self-propelled guns 2S7 Pion / 2S7M Malka of 203 mm caliber is questionable - these vehicles have high firepower but low mobility, making them more likely to be destroyed by enemy counter-battery fire. Ensuring the firing of mortars 2S4 "Tyulpan" and self-propelled guns 2S7 "Pion" / 2S7M "Malka" from the trawl will be more difficult to implement than self-propelled guns of 122 mm and 152 mm caliber, but the feasibility of this is very high.


SAU 2S7 "Pion" (left) and mortar 2S4 "Tulip" (right)

Conclusions


The scheme for organizing the combat work of tracked self-propelled guns with the possibility of firing directly from wheeled trawls will provide the RF Armed Forces with the following advantages:
- the ability to choose between mobility and cross-country ability;
- reduction of losses of tracked self-propelled guns from enemy counter-battery fire;
- a significant increase in the mobility of artillery units equipped with tracked self-propelled guns, ensuring the possibility of prompt transfer of self-propelled guns from one direction to another;
- saving engine life and life of the undercarriage of tracked self-propelled guns;
- an increase in the ammunition load (if possible), prompt delivery of fuel and ammunition when the tracked self-propelled guns “dismount”;
- minimizing the impact of tracked ACS on infrastructure (roads);
- an increase in the number of trawls in the troops as a whole will make it possible, if necessary, to use them for transporting other military equipment;
- there will be no need to accelerate the development of wheeled self-propelled guns (reducing the risk of design errors) with the development of mass production (which is always associated with problems and delays), instead, you can focus on the production of used wheeled self-propelled guns and the purchase of modified trawls for them.
43 comments
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  1. +12
    11 July 2023 05: 51
    Yes, it’s easier to remove and put an artillery unit on such a trawl ... The trawl itself will turn out to be painfully difficult, which will add both in price and weight and drastically reduce operational maneuverability, which is already not high.
    The author does not take into account the dimensions, especially in height and the stability of this design when making the same turns.
  2. +2
    11 July 2023 05: 54
    I personally think that the best option for the AOI would be to create self-propelled guns based on the Mk, but we decided to go the other way.
    1. +5
      11 July 2023 06: 13
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      would create self-propelled guns based on Mk

      What is MK? And let's agree on a tracked and wheeled installation of a tower type - self-propelled guns, not a tower - SAO (self-propelled artillery gun)
      1. +2
        11 July 2023 06: 35
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        would create self-propelled guns based on Mk

        What is MK? And let's agree on a tracked and wheeled installation of a tower type - self-propelled guns, not a tower - SAO (self-propelled artillery gun)

        This is how they write about the platform of the Merkava tank. By the way, your suggestion is very convenient. ROEM is SPG and ATMOS is SAO. good
        1. +3
          11 July 2023 07: 18
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          This is how they write about the platform of the Merkava tank

          I understand and disagree with you. Of course, such an installation is necessary, but in your realities, with the presence of many good roads, wheeled self-propelled guns and self-propelled guns are still more needed, they are also cheaper, both in production, self-propelled guns three times, I am generally silent about the self-propelled guns, and in operation. And they are more durable
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          By the way, your suggestion is very convenient.

          Yes, if mine ... We still have the "brains" of the GABTU
          1. +4
            11 July 2023 08: 29
            Quote: svp67
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            This is how they write about the platform of the Merkava tank

            I understand and disagree with you. Of course, such an installation is necessary, but in your realities, with the presence of many good roads, wheeled self-propelled guns and self-propelled guns are still more needed, they are also cheaper, both in production, self-propelled guns three times, I am generally silent about the self-propelled guns, and in operation. And they are also more durable.

            It is true, but it is a pity that such a beauty was abandoned.


            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            By the way, your suggestion is very convenient.

            Yes, if mine ... We still have the "brains" of the GABTU

            Well, I learned it from you. hi
            1. +1
              11 July 2023 14: 06
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              It is true, but it is a pity that such a beauty was abandoned.

              What a large size it is ... And what is the length of the barrel in calibers?
              1. +2
                11 July 2023 15: 34
                Quote: svp67
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                It is true, but it is a pity that such a beauty was abandoned.

                What a large size it is ... And what is the length of the barrel in calibers?

                The Sholef was designed with a 52 caliber barrel.
                1. +3
                  11 July 2023 16: 35
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  52 caliber.

                  Not a record already, of course, but worthy ...
  3. Eug
    -3
    11 July 2023 06: 25
    And such a trawl can also be used for the container version of the Caliber, and you never know what else .... as for me, you need to understand the time before the first shot and see how effective it is. As for me, the "tractor-trawl" complex can become a good basis for land "modularity". It is clear that it is better when each combat weapon has its own "personal" chassis, but in the first approximation, the use of the "tractor-trawl" system promises some savings. Moreover, you don’t need to invent anything special - just look at truck cranes.
  4. +3
    11 July 2023 07: 47
    Some kind of nonsense with these trawls. It must be said bluntly: we need wheeled self-propelled guns, they have much more advantages than tracked ones. There are not many potential theaters of operations where the wheels cannot pass, and the tracks are also stuck, only because of their weight it is much more difficult to get a car. And in the highlands, the harp on the stones is like on ice, where wheels are needed
    1. +2
      11 July 2023 08: 55
      Wheeled self-propelled guns (in addition to the well-known advantages) have fatal flaws that tracked ones do not have.
      - their dimensions are always larger; they are more difficult to hide and disguise
      - the center of gravity is always higher, the rigidity of the vehicle as a whole is lower, therefore, they have restrictions on firing sectors, limitations on the power of projectiles, less range, worse accuracy, lower rate of fire, prone to buildup after a shot
      - require the use of outriggers
      - have weaker booking
      Conclusion, the use of special trawls is logical, and it would probably be even better to put only one tower on the trawl, from self-propelled guns, this will generally reduce the towed weight, simplify the design and operation (it is easier to replace the tractor than the engine), the center of gravity will be lower than in tracked ACS, this removes many of the limitations inherent in wheeled vehicles.
      1. -4
        11 July 2023 11: 01
        Moreover, the "tractor-trawl" option will make it possible to do without organizing the production of narrowly applicable wheeled chassis.
        There is such garbage as SAO (like a truck with a gun). Wouldn't it be better to create a register of rogue trucks with a small residual resource and artillery systems suitable for the vehicle's capabilities.
        Type: UAZ-tadpole + 82-mm mortar, and in ascending order. Create conversion kits in the factory and in the field. It will be cheap, and it is not a pity to quit, in which case. We have: mobility, with proper design - speed of deployment in positions, the ability, if necessary, to quickly rearrange the kit to another truck. But when the VSUke arrives from the old ZIL or captured KrAZ, or from the captured IVECO at the headquarters of the blue division, the step to Victory will be the same as when using a conventional self-propelled guns.
        1. +3
          11 July 2023 18: 56
          Quote: IL-18
          Wouldn't it be better to create a registry of rogue trucks with a small residual resource and artillery systems suitable for the capabilities of the vehicle.

          So-so thought, to be honest. The old trash did not reach the position, could not complete the task - people died.
          Quote: IL-18
          Will be cheap and quit don't mind, if anything.

          The old trash could not leave the position and fell under a counter-battery attack - people died, equipment was lost.
      2. nks
        +4
        11 July 2023 11: 21
        Quote: agond
        - their dimensions are always larger; they are more difficult to hide and disguise

        In the general case, this depends on the layout and barrel length, but in the case of Msta-S and CAESAR, we see that everything is exactly the opposite.
        Msta-s with a barrel length of 47 calibers has a total length (after the breech there is still a rather large BO) ~ 11,9m, and CAESAR (6x6) with a barrel length of 52 calibers
        10,5m. Further, the height and width are 3,35m and 3,38m for Msta-S versus 3,26m (for the cab) and 2,55m for CAESAR (6x6), well, IMHO, a truck is always easier to disguise ... as a truck :)
        Quote: agond
        - the center of gravity is always higher

        This is not so (see above), moreover, we see that the Msta-S has the worst patency in terms of the angle of lateral inclination and the slope to roll over (more than one example can be found)
        Quote: agond
        - restrictions on the power of projectiles, less range, worse accuracy, lower rate of fire, prone to buildup after a shot

        In the general case, this depends more on the artillery unit, and in the case of the Msta-S and CAESAR, exactly the opposite is true - the latter has both power and range and accuracy are higher. Swing (with this you can associate the rate of fire with the necessary accuracy)
        it depends more on the mass of the self-propelled guns, which dampens the recoil momentum and, for example, ARCHER has less buildup than CAESAR, but mass is a thing with two ends (see below)
        Quote: agond
        -- require the use of outriggers

        Optional - CAESAR does not have a remote, but aft base plate, which is also used as a platform for calculation.
        Quote: agond
        -- have weaker booking

        It depends on the requirements, and often the problem is the weight limits that are given, which are not wheeled chassis restrictions, but air mobility requirements.
        And do not forget that mass is not only air mobility, but also, for example, bridges. At the same time, one can notice from the experience of the NWO that, due to the layout, the defeat of the classic
        tracked self-propelled guns leads to undermining the BC and the complete loss of the vehicle, but CAESAR does not.
      3. +2
        11 July 2023 16: 40
        Quote: agond
        the center of gravity is always higher, the rigidity of the vehicle as a whole is lower, therefore, they have restrictions on firing sectors, limitations on the power of shells, less range, worse accuracy, lower rate of fire, prone to buildup after a shot

        This certainly does not apply only to wheeled vehicles.
  5. +4
    11 July 2023 08: 31
    While there are disputes on the Internet about what is better than wheels or tracks, the Germans are doing things. RCH-155 is what a modern self-propelled gun should look like. Standalone BM that can be installed on any platform.


    1. +2
      11 July 2023 09: 01
      Thought in the Russian Federation goes exactly the same way. At Kaolitsia, the same module is presented ..... the question is in serialization. And I don’t understand why, the barrel of the new gun itself is not put on such simplified carts as the BAZ or open-type caterpillar. There are a lot of technical risks with such a module at once.
      1. +1
        11 July 2023 12: 14
        Why, the "Coalition", "Msta" already has such a "module" and did not appear yesterday (and it is also successfully or not very transferred by designers to other chassis). It's just that the author in his article, as usual, suddenly "invented the wheel". Instead of rolling the finished self-propelled guns (SAO) on the finished trawl (which in themselves are necessary things in the household and separately), then I would suggest creating a simplified semi-trailer trolley (simple design, low cost) with jacks controlled from the tractor cab (minimum completion), on which the serial tower is mounted. So it will be possible to save at least on the production of a special chassis (which Msta, for example, is not "completely tanky", does not support conversion from the T-72), and limit the requirements for the bogie to the capabilities of the proposed tractor. This would be relevant if there was a large backlog of ownerless "revenue" towers (does it exist?). Or if it is possible to convert it relatively inexpensively into Msta-B towers from storage. In fact, we get the same towed gun, but with improved deployment / collapse speed (elimination of the main drawback of tugs).
        And you don’t need to finish the trawls ...
  6. +1
    11 July 2023 08: 58
    I think that after the SVO, we will have a race for Howitzers with higher characteristics.
    1. +6
      11 July 2023 10: 47
      IMHO it makes no sense. If you need to install an expensive guidance system, then it’s better not to use a modest 152-mm projectile, but a 300-mm rocket. She will have more explosives and a longer range ...
      I mean, the lot of artillery is distances up to 30 km and cheap ammunition. If you need something more powerful, more accurate and longer-range - this is the lot of reactive systems. They also have a higher rate of fire. In general, they are superior to cannon artillery in everything except the price
  7. BAI
    +1
    11 July 2023 09: 25
    how many videos confirming the destruction of HIMARS wheeled multiple launch rocket systems? Yes,

    1. Yes, because there are few of them.
    2. They are far from the line of contact.
    How many videos of destroyed Iskander carriers? No one.
  8. +2
    11 July 2023 11: 00
    Why the artillery unit is not put on the railway platform is also a completely cheap option.
  9. +1
    11 July 2023 11: 08
    Military thought does not stand still, now they are proposing to use trawls as a gun platform. What's next? I propose another crazy solution, but should we stir up a hovercraft platform? Cross-country ability is generally class, sat down where necessary, fired and flew on. Let's call the project like this - "Elusive Joe" laughing But seriously, the world is full of worthy self-propelled guns (SAO), you can’t develop it yourself, copy it!
    1. 0
      11 July 2023 22: 16
      one joe is enough for us on the planet, although he is not elusive, but self-propelled)
    2. 0
      11 July 2023 22: 50
      Patency at the pillow is by no means a class. No wonder she took root only in the Navy. On land, they tried to make "cushion-caterpillar" hybrids, but they did not go further than experiments.
  10. +5
    11 July 2023 11: 24
    Upon arrival at the position, the trawl immediately turns in the direction of reverse movement and hangs out the trailer with the caterpillar self-propelled guns on jacks. The crew takes jobs, enters installations and opens fire on the target. Depending on the distance to the enemy and the possible risks of counter-battery fire, a given number of shots are fired. Immediately after the last shot, the trawl removes the jacks (of course, the process must be automated) and leaves, together with the self-propelled guns, to the basing site as quickly as possible.

    Gorgeous. That is, we take an expensive and heavy caterpillar self-propelled gun - and additionally make it heavier and more expensive by introducing a tank carrier. At the same time, we will be able to work only from solid ground next to the roads, and even in open areas that allow the trawl to turn. The ballet of tractors and trawls and fuss with jacks dramatically increase the deployment and collapse time of the battery - in contrast to the classic tracked self-propelled guns, which can leave the position almost immediately after the last shot.
    And yes, the maximum speed of a tanker with self-propelled guns will be lower than that of self-propelled guns. Because the roads are not an endless straight line, and at the very first turn, the high CG of the SAU-trawl link will force you to slow down in order to prevent a rollover. Or the descent of cargo from the trawl. Or the removal of the trailer from the road by inertia.
    And the most relish will be when the column of self-propelled guns will need to turn around - say, due to the fact that a road is broken on the route or a bridge is damaged.
    1. +3
      11 July 2023 12: 24
      The author, in his own style, solves problems as they come in "in a managerial way": by eliminating intermediaries!
  11. +2
    11 July 2023 13: 24
    I'm not sure that I understand the problem raised in the article well. One gets the impression that different issues are mixed here.
    At the first stage:
    On the one hand, it is easy and convenient to load self-propelled guns onto wheeled tractors to deliver them directly to the combat zone, then they are on their tracks, and the tractor can be used to provide the necessary logistics. What is the problem?
    At the next stage:
    You can wonder about calibers, different layouts and combat use, new and better types of weapons. That is, it is, as it were, a different issue, the study and implementation of which may require more time, work and expertise.
    1. +3
      11 July 2023 17: 28
      The fact of the matter is that there is no problem, there are certain fantasies or opinions of the author, to which he undoubtedly has the right. A tank carrier is a tractor with a platform, that's all. Why fence a garden and attach a fifth wheel to the cart is not clear. Similar articles are found on VO, for example, they argue what to arm and how to book an armored personnel carrier, which is just a means of delivering l / s to the war zone and is not even intended for combat by name, a transporter, it is also a transporter in Africa
  12. +4
    11 July 2023 17: 34
    What kind of nonsense is shooting from a trawl ??? The thrall will rest on the ground, and the self-propelled guns will rest on the trawl ??? What a savagery....
  13. +2
    11 July 2023 21: 07
    To the idea of ​​​​the author, only INTO Ostap suffered.
    1. 0
      11 July 2023 22: 41
      By the way, wheeled self-propelled guns have a large turning radius, for example, the Coalition-KSh based on Kamaz 16m, that is, you can’t turn around on a narrow road, and you can tip over from the road through a ditch.,
  14. +2
    11 July 2023 22: 32
    I already wrote once.
    Approximate scheme.
    We take an EO crane based on the Urals, remove the crane installation, strengthen the installation site, put D-30 or D-20 in place of the crane installation, of course, without wheels and beds.
    SAO is ready.
    He arrived at the position, lowered the outriggers and fired. Outriggers raised and go.
    D-30, D 20, etc. we have full.
    1. 0
      18 July 2023 15: 55
      Already cooked up, SAO "Phlox" with a 120-mm mortar cannon. Not D-30, of course, and not D-20, of course, but almost what was requested. And the cabin is armored, and the ammunition is solid, and there is a machine gun.
  15. 0
    12 July 2023 08: 49
    Similar installations, namely tracked and wheeled field guns, have already been in our history, remember the years of the Second World War. The Germans also had them, both sides "sculpted" them on what was at hand. Later they switched to specialized installations. Putting a gun on a self-propelled gun is good, mobility increases, but that's all. Loading from the ground, sending a projectile by a rammer made of precious wood is also not bad, although laborious and slow. These self-propelled guns (SAO) do not have the main, automatic setting of data for firing, everything is entered manually, and this time and the likelihood of errors. although with difficulty that our army will receive a full-fledged self-propelled gun, modern means of reconnaissance, data processing, and target designation.
  16. +1
    12 July 2023 09: 02
    The trawl idea seems too complicated to me - dimensions, turns, speed of movement, price, etc. etc. If you really want to go both on tracks and on wheels along the path of transporting excavators in quarries? We drive the self-propelled guns onto carts, on the other hand we lift it with an evacuation vehicle and take it along the roads.

    PS The mass of the excavator in the photo is under 100t.
  17. 0
    12 July 2023 12: 40
    Rave! Are there highways around the LBS with at least tolerable pavement? Trawl will be in the first funnel! It’s easier to take an army truck, reinforce the body with a frame, again jacks and peel directly from the body. Or equip the same truck with mechanization, which allows you to quickly raise / lower and fix the tool (towed) in the body. Trawl on LBS is just a target! And immovable.
  18. 0
    12 July 2023 18: 10
    In fact, the main improvements will be reduced to strengthening the platform by integrating the frame into its design and installing supporting jacks,

    And this chariot will rush to victory with a "swift jack."
    ps There is nothing worse than a humanist who begins to invent technology.
    1. 0
      12 July 2023 20: 10
      If we take into account the fact that self-propelled guns are not intended to participate in attacks like tanks and firing on the move, the same is not practiced by them, it turns out that self-propelled guns can be replaced with a non-self-propelled artillery mount, but not with a trailed gun familiar to everyone, but with a different design, for example, a tower from the Coalition and install it on a plate and shoot from the ground, and not from a chassis or from a trawl, the tower weighs 17t + a plate of 3-4t in total will be about 20t or a little more, that is, bring it to the place and unload it to shoot and quickly load and By the way, it is much more difficult for the enemy to hit a tower with a plate than a conventional self-propelled gun, it is lower and smaller. A tower with a plate will require a special transport vehicle, both in two versions, wheeled and tracked, of course, the machines must be equipped for accelerated unloading and loading operations, Obsessive desire of the military all over the world to shoot from big guns and certainly from wheels is not justified by anything, by the way, it’s not bad to transport mortars over the mountains on beasts of burden, and it doesn’t occur to normal people to shoot from the back of a donkey and the same doesn’t come from a cart, but put it on the ground and shoot.
  19. 0
    12 July 2023 20: 37
    And what's the point of making a wheeled self-propelled gun from scratch with obviously miserable characteristics? Firing range 24 km conventional
    OFS is the level of the late 80s. It is better to upgrade the existing 2S19 to the level of 2S19M2 by installing a new SLA, communications and navigation equipment on them. If you invest resources in the development of a wheeled self-propelled guns, then it should have complete unification of the artillery unit with the 2S35 Coalition-SV
  20. -1
    13 August 2023 16: 20
    Before the appearance of the Lancets and Geraniums on the front line, the artillery of the Russian army turned out to be completely decapitated. Due to direct damage from the Moscow Region and the Rostec Corporation. The artillery complex "Coalition SV" designed in 2002 would greatly help to strengthen the defense capability of the Russian army. All specialized media paid tribute to this self-propelled guns, describing how good it is and why the “German” PzH 2000 is worse than 2С35. But PzH 2000 was made for 400 pieces, but dozens of 2C35s turned out to be advertising. He was thrashed for 20 stagnant years. What is it, hostile actions, carelessness, laziness or stupid inability to solve an important defense problem.? The absence of the "Coalition of the SV" at the front turned out to be a gigantic gap, which, if you look at it, we simply have nothing to close so far. As a result, according to both our and foreign experts, we are still losing the counter-battery fight against the Ukrainian military, equipped with NATO-style artillery, almost “in one gate”. The enemy could be frightened by the "Tornado" with a firing range of 120 km, but dispersion ...? Leading with this, technically very perfect evil spirits, counter-battery combat - our 152-mm howitzers 2A36 "Hyacinth-B" and "Msta-S / SM" shoot at a maximum of 33,5 km. And NATO ones are from 40 km or more. Thus, a kind of "safety zone" of very impressive depth appears for the enemy artillery. How can they fire at us without too much risk of getting a decent response from the Russian side. Here is such a leading "corporation", or rather cosmopolitanization.
  21. 0
    7 October 2023 14: 18
    Shooting from a trawl - what nonsense? It’s hard to imagine a more clumsy bandura, like a road train made from a loaded trawl and a tractor. Imagine a trawl driving through the city with a DEK-251 type crawler crane - this will be the self-propelled gun on the trawl. Such a monster has zero maneuverability and extremely low maneuverability.