Features and benefits of SAO 2S43 "Malva"

123
Features and benefits of SAO 2S43 "Malva"
Prototype "Malva". Photo by Central Research Institute "Burevestnik"


Over the past few years, NPK "Uralvagonzavod" has been developing and testing a promising self-propelled artillery gun 2S43 "Malva". To date, the prototype has passed all the necessary tests and confirmed the design characteristics, which allows you to start production. In the foreseeable future, serial self-propelled guns will go to combat units and will have to give them certain advantages.



Development and testing


Since the middle of the last decade, the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" (Nizhny Novgorod) from the NPK "Uralvagonzavod" has been carrying out development work with the code "Sketch". Its goal was to create several new models of self-propelled artillery that meet modern requirements for such equipment. In 2019, it became known that within the framework of this development work, along with other samples, a 152-mm self-propelled artillery gun "Malva" is being created.

By the time the first reports appeared, the 2S43 Malva project had reached the stage of building a prototype. In 2020, it was shown to the leadership of the defense department in a closed manner, and a number of photographs and general information were presented to the public. In the same year, an experimental SAO of a new type was brought to factory tests in order to check the general design features.

Just a few months later, in the spring of 2021, the Malva prototype was handed over to the Ministry of Defense for state testing. It was assumed that all such activities would take about a year and a half and be completed before the end of 2022. It was not possible to meet such deadlines exactly, but the backlog turned out to be small and should not affect the overall progress of work.

Against the backdrop of ongoing testing, in mid-August 2022, UVZ management announced the start of a new stage of work. At one of the enterprises of the corporation, the construction of a pilot batch of Malva products was launched. The number and timing of the manufacture of these self-propelled guns were not called.

Finally, in mid-May 2023, it became known about the completion of state tests. SAO 2S43 confirmed all the calculated characteristics. The management of the corporation-developer highly appreciated this combat vehicle and expressed confidence in the imminent start of the receipt of such equipment by the troops.


The first known image of the product 2S43. Graphics Russianarms.ru

Thus, R & D under the code "Malva" is successfully completed, and now issues of an organizational and production nature are being resolved. This means that in the near future Uralvagonzavod will be able to start producing new equipment, and the army will receive another modern self-propelled gun. It was previously mentioned that deliveries of such equipment could begin in 2023-24.

New concept


The Malva project is based on the concept of a highly mobile lightweight artillery system on a wheeled chassis. Similar equipment has already been developed in our country, but not a single such project has reached the series and operation. Now the views of the customer and the capabilities of the developers have changed, and the 2S43 product has every chance of entering service and complementing the traditional self-propelled guns.

SAO "Malva" was built on the basis of a special chassis BAZ-6610-027 "Voshchina". It is a four-axle all-wheel drive vehicle with a high payload. In front of such a chassis there is a double-row cabin with five-person crew stations and a power plant, the center is given over to the installation of various units and ammunition, and an artillery mount is located in the stern.

The used chassis is equipped with a YaMZ-8424.10 diesel engine with a power of 470 hp. With its help, a combat vehicle weighing 32 tons is capable of speeds up to 80 km / h on the highway; cruising range - 1000 km. The chassis is designed for both highway and off-road driving. However, in terms of mobility on rough terrain, it is inferior to tracked vehicles.

The artillery unit of the "Malva" is distinguished by a certain simplicity. In the stern of the chassis, the upper carriage machine with pickup mechanisms is openly mounted. Shooting is provided within the front sector with a width of 60 ° at elevation angles from -3 ° to + 70 °. Under the artillery system is a folding coulter that transmits the recoil momentum to the ground.

The 2S43 self-propelled gun is armed with a 152-mm 2A64 howitzer, borrowed from the Msta-S combat vehicle. The gun has a rifled barrel 47 klb long with a developed muzzle brake and a breech with a semi-automatic vertical wedge breech. A separate-sleeve loading method is used using a ramming mechanism.


"Malva" at the parade, 2021. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

"Malva" can use all types of ammunition for the "Msta-S" and shows similar combat characteristics. The maximum firing range of a conventional projectile is approx. 24 km; active-reactive or guided fly further. Ammunition SAO includes 30 shots. Shells and shells are transported in the central part of the chassis or on a separate machine and fed to the gun manually.

The 2S43 product was supposed to receive a modern fire control system, but exact information about it is not yet available. Probably, a digital system is used with high-precision navigation tools, the ability to exchange information and automatically generate data for firing.

Desired benefits


Thanks to the use of a new concept and the correct selection of components, the Malva SAO has a number of important features and advantages that are of interest to the army. At the same time, there are certain limitations and even disadvantages. However, the competent use of new technology and the implementation of its advantages can reduce the impact of negative factors and reduce risks.

The main advantages of "Malva" are associated with the use of a wheeled chassis. Such a base simplifies and speeds up the transfer of equipment, and also allows it to move faster between positions using highways or dirt roads, as well as some off-road conditions. In particular, the wheeled chassis allows you to quickly leave the dangerous area and get away from the retaliatory strike. The experience of the current Special Operation shows how important and valuable is the speed of movement.

At the same time, wheeled vehicles have certain restrictions on mobility and cross-country ability, which is why in a number of situations they are inferior to tracked ones. As a result, the organization of the use of "Malva" or other similar combat vehicle requires additional factors and circumstances to be taken into account. Otherwise, the self-propelled gun will not be able to effectively solve the problem.

The high mobility of the 2S43, among other things, is ensured by a reduction in mass due to the rejection of a full-fledged reservation. Because of this, the calculation and aggregates are exposed to certain risks. However, the experience of operating other artillery systems with open placement of guns shows that such threats should not be overestimated.


Fire tests, June 2021. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

In addition, there are simple and effective security solutions. For example, during the current operation, it turned out that the main threat to artillery in closed positions is represented by light UAVs with a combat load. To protect against them, the equipment receives special mesh screens installed at a certain height above the body. Machines like "Malva" are quite capable of carrying such additional protection.

A big advantage of the 2S43 system is a high degree of unification with existing equipment. So, the chassis of the Bryansk Automobile Plant are widespread in our army and there is a lot of experience in their operation. The artillery unit of the "Malva" was borrowed from the serial "Msta-S". Only individual parts and components are designed and produced from scratch. Such design features simplify and reduce the cost of production and operation.

However, even in such unification one can find disadvantages. For example, the SAO 2S43 is “composed” of fairly old components, and therefore a breakthrough in performance characteristics is not to be expected - all parameters remain at the level of current technology.

Combined approach


In general, we are talking about creating an unusual for our army, but quite an interesting sample of self-propelled artillery. "Malva" differs from cash ACS, but the existing differences give it certain advantages, although they impose certain limitations.

It is important that the promising product 2S43 is not considered as a replacement for existing self-propelled guns. It should complement tracked vehicles and give ground forces new opportunities. A combined fleet of self-propelled artillery on different bases will be able to more effectively conduct combat work in different conditions and more successfully solve the entire range of emerging combat and fire missions.

To date, the self-propelled gun 2S43 "Malva" has passed all the necessary tests and entered the pilot production. Now the new SAO can get a recommendation for adoption, go into a full-fledged series and enter the troops. This means that over the next few years, the Russian army will receive a self-propelled gun of a new class for itself, and with it a number of interesting features.
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  1. +33
    10 July 2023 05: 19
    All advantages are negated by the extremely short firing range of Malva
    1. +5
      10 July 2023 05: 30
      Quote from: FoBoss_VM
      All advantages are negated by the extremely short firing range of Malva

      Insufficient, but by no means extremely small, do not exaggerate.
      Although this is an indicator of "taking into account" experience, babble about anti-UAV nets, forgetting about the range of fire and rate of fire.
      Although the layout will make it possible to lengthen the barrel almost without going beyond the size.
      1. AAK
        +50
        10 July 2023 06: 52
        If we compare the firing range of self-propelled guns of a similar class, such as "Caesar" or "Archer", supplied to Banderas, then the firing range of the "Malva" OFS of 24 km against their 40 km is not insufficient, it is not even small, but worthless. The gun is from the times of the USSR, from the Msta, and not from the Coalition, the barrel length of 47 calibers is not even yesterday, but the day before yesterday ... Well, one can note a certain objectivity of the author, who, albeit in a veiled form , but pointed out the moral and technical obsolescence of this self-propelled guns - both about the lack of a modern PNK, and about loading 1 shell each, and about being overweight ... in general, an army of a morally and technically obsolete model is coming under the guise of being like the coolest wunderwaffe ...
        1. +3
          10 July 2023 08: 31
          Quote: AAK
          If we compare the firing range of self-propelled guns of a similar class, such as "Caesar" or "Archer" supplied to Banderas ... but worthless.

          And if we recall the active use of the D-30 and even the D-20 by our artillery, then it is insufficient.

          Quote: AAK
          in general, the army of a morally and technically obsolete model is coming under the guise of the type of the coolest wunderwaffe ...

          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Although the layout will make it possible to lengthen the barrel almost without going beyond the size.
          1. +2
            10 July 2023 12: 24
            Here is an article about the new plant for the production of Msta-S. Which ate capitalism along with KB.
            https://dzen.ru/a/Xee2GjZCtgCv5TnK
            1. +1
              10 July 2023 22: 27
              I’m wondering, the M777 has a 5-meter barrel, the M59 has a 7-meter barrel, the Msta has even more, and the range is about the same.
              What makes it so?
              And why then do you need a long barrel, if a shortened one is no worse.
              Are there specialists?
              1. 0
                10 July 2023 23: 59
                Quote: Shurik70
                why then do you need a long barrel, if a shortened one is no worse

                There is also barrel wear. Requirements for the quality of the manufacture of the barrel. Recoil.
              2. 0
                11 July 2023 09: 07
                Quote: Shurik70
                And why then do you need a long barrel, if a shortened one is no worse

                A long barrel allows you to disperse the projectile more strongly. But the range can be increased not only due to the better acceleration of the projectile, but also by improving the projectile itself. The maximum range of axes is achieved when using a de facto half-rocket.

                At the same time, the same projectile from a longer barrel will still fly farther.
              3. +3
                11 July 2023 15: 23
                Sample traps, except for barrel length L / 52, the volume of the chamber for charging 23 liters ...
              4. +2
                12 July 2023 11: 12
                Quote: Shurik70
                I’m wondering, the M777 has a 5-meter barrel, the M59 has a 7-meter barrel, the Msta has even more, and the range is about the same.
                What makes it so?
                And why then do you need a long barrel, if a shortened one is no worse.

                Modern NATO shells have much better aerodynamics. We have developed shells with similar aerodynamics for the Coalition-SV, their mass production is being established. If in the future the production of such shells becomes massive, then their use on the Msta and Hyocints will lead to a serious increase in the firing range. The usual OFS with 52 calibers is long, will fly at least 30 km. And actino-reactive (from the same "Coalition") for 40 km. , if not further .
                It remains to wait for new shells.
        2. +3
          10 July 2023 11: 02
          I will speak out in defense of mallow.
          Wars are won not by piece wunderwaffles, but by mass, i.e. technologically advanced weapons.
          1. +3
            10 July 2023 12: 10
            The enemy will simply shoot these mass Mallows, one after another.
            1. +2
              10 July 2023 12: 43
              And what the enemy does not shoot? What do you think the gun should be?
              And what kind of protection from highmars should be in it?
              1. +8
                10 July 2023 13: 35
                it must have at least the same range as the enemy
                1. -12
                  10 July 2023 13: 40
                  If we make the range not 24 km, but 34 km, then the price of the gun will conditionally increase by 2 times.
                  If we make the range not 24 km, but 40 km, then the price of the gun will conditionally increase by 3 times.
                  But Hymars will endure them equally)))
                  1. +1
                    10 July 2023 20: 51
                    And if there is no Hymars on this sector of the front, then with an appropriate artillery duel with opponents armed with artillery with a range of 30 km + from the mallow (battalion) in 3-3.5 hours there will be no trace left. This is an educational classic. Not even 40 km, but 30+.
                  2. +6
                    10 July 2023 20: 59
                    So what. Will we continue to fight on the D20? It's cheap and massive .. So wars are not won
                    1. -2
                      10 July 2023 23: 15
                      That's exactly how they win. What we see.
                  3. -1
                    12 July 2023 10: 57
                    Quote: rytik32
                    If we make the range not 24 km, but 40 km, then the price of the gun will conditionally increase by 3 times.
                    But hymars will endure them the same way

                    Alexey, for your "Haymars" one or two "Lancets" are enough, which do this quite well. Even in motion they take the Chimera.
                    And the Hymars also has a Tornado-S with a guided precision-guided munition. And it shoots further, and warheads are 2+ times more powerful, and cluster munitions can be used to cover more space with high-explosive-cumulative ammunition.
                    "Coalition-SV" shoots in range and accuracy all the guns available to NATO, and they have already been / are being tested on the Zaporozhye front. In the series they will go as soon as mass production of shells for them begins. And if the production of shells for the "Coalition" is really massive, then their use will raise the firing range of old guns (such as the MSTA) to the parameters of the "Archer", "Caesar", the Polish-Czech variety and 777.
                    It's all about the aerodynamics of the projectile. For both the length of the barrel and the initial velocity of the projectile are quite comparable for them.
                2. -1
                  11 July 2023 09: 29
                  Quote from mototun
                  it must have at least the same range as the enemy

                  If we are talking about the "enemy" in the form of the US Army and, accordingly, the M1299, then you will not get the same range of a similar system due to the lower technical level. Previously, it was possible to take, so to speak, by brute force (Hyacinth, M-46), but now they have already come up against the laws of physics.
              2. +7
                10 July 2023 20: 39
                Quote: rytik32
                And what the enemy does not shoot? What do you think the gun should be?
                And what kind of protection from highmars should be in it?

                There is no need to invent anything, everything has already been invented in the form of self-propelled artillery mounts with an armored wheelhouse. Which go to the firing line conduct a fire raid and immediately collapse.
                And able to withstand close breaks. Actually, it was precisely such a concept that was before its fighting, and only confirmed that this is how artillery should look like.
                1. -1
                  10 July 2023 23: 20
                  Quote: certero
                  And able to withstand close breaks.

                  Nobody argues here.
                  Just hymars that lancets hit right on target.
                  1. +1
                    11 July 2023 15: 08
                    Quote: rytik32
                    Quote: certero
                    And able to withstand close breaks.

                    Nobody argues here.
                    Just hymars that lancets hit right on target.

                    I see you are stuck on HIMARS even more than the Ukrainians themselves.
              3. 0
                11 July 2023 15: 06
                Quote: rytik32
                And what the enemy does not shoot? What do you think the gun should be?
                And what kind of protection from highmars should be in it?

              4. 0
                12 July 2023 11: 03
                Quote: rytik32
                What do you think the gun should be?
                And what kind of protection from highmars should be in it?

                High speed of leaving the position after a perfect artillery raid.
                And also the use in counter-battery combat of specially dedicated crews of "Tornado-S" \ "Smerch" in a guided high-precision projectile and the crew of "Lancets". Target designation from radars, not only artillery, but also radars of front-line air defense systems.
          2. 0
            10 July 2023 20: 17
            Then it was necessary to do it on the basis of a cheap four-axle Kamaz, like on a shell.
        3. +8
          10 July 2023 14: 37
          Thanks to the use of a new concept and the correct selection of components, the Malva SAO has a number of important features and advantages that are of interest to the army.

          Interestingly, without reservation, a range of 24 km and at the same time yielding to tracked vehicles in cross-country ability, in whose stripes is it of interest?
          1. +7
            10 July 2023 16: 01
            Quote: user
            Interestingly, without reservation, a range of 24 km and at the same time yielding to tracked vehicles in cross-country ability, in whose stripes is it of interest?

            For those who have all of the above, they also have to tow.
            They also have artillery without armor and with the maneuverability of a wheeled tractor. Moreover, the clotting time is one and a half times longer than the arrival time of the response according to the norms of the 80s.
          2. +1
            10 July 2023 17: 27
            Interesting without booking

            Represents due to resistance to the main methods of detecting firing guns - sound and radar - reconnaissance, because they can shoot in the fire raid mode (no more than a minute) - movement - fire raid ...
        4. +3
          10 July 2023 17: 46
          Quote: AAK
          then the firing range of the OFS "Malvy" is 24 km

          27 km when firing ARS, similar to "Caesar" and "Archer" shoots at maximum range
        5. +9
          10 July 2023 18: 06
          then the firing range of the OFS "Malva" is 24 km against their 40 km,

          Damn as much as possible.
          Caesar and archer OFS do not shoot at 40 km. Study the topic. am
        6. -2
          10 July 2023 22: 17
          It is the Ukrainians who can shoot anywhere, both at the troops and at the cities, and ours, I hope, only at the troops. Are guns needed for 40,80 km? Perhaps, but there are missiles for this with greater accuracy.
          1. +1
            11 July 2023 18: 54
            Perhaps, but there are missiles for this with greater accuracy.

            Air defense shells do not intercept.
          2. 0
            12 July 2023 10: 43
            Quote: Alex Tarkhov
            Are guns needed for 40,80 km? Perhaps, but there are missiles for this with greater accuracy.

            Missiles for MLRS cost much more (especially high-precision ones), transportation, storage in operational warehouses and loading are somewhat more complicated and longer.
            And still
            Quote: bk316
            Air defense shells do not intercept.

            and this is also important.
        7. +1
          12 July 2023 10: 40
          Quote: AAK
          If we compare the firing range of self-propelled guns of a similar class such as "Caesar" or "Archer" supplied to Banderas, then the firing range of the "Malva" OFS of 24 km against their 40 km is not insufficient, it is not even small, but worthless.

          Well, let's not overdo it. 24 km. , this is the usual high-explosive fragmentation. active-reactive flies (if by analogy with Msta-S) up to 29,5 km.
          At the same time, "Caesar" and "Archer" fire at 40 km with active-reactive. therefore, the usual OFS range will be of the order of 30 - 32 km. So not that big of a gap. But still, the gap is not in our favor.
          Now about the "Coalition-SV" and its possible incarnations.
          For a weapon to be launched into a series, the readiness of the industry for the MASS production of shells for this weapon is critical. And they are only trying to organize the production of shells for the "Coalition-SV". As soon as the release becomes not even serial, but mass, the presence of new long-range self-propelled guns can seriously (and maybe critically) affect the course of the database.
          By the way, not only experience, but also the base for the "Malva" may in the near future serve as the basis for the wheeled version of the "Coalition" in the "cabriolet" version. And if you try to use a new projectile from the "Coalition" on the "Malva", then the usual OFS will certainly fly away at least 30 km. There is much better projectile aerodynamics. And I think an active-reactive one will easily take a distance of 40 km. It's all about new shells.
          Quote: AAK
          an army of a morally and technically obsolete model is coming under the guise of the type of the coolest wunderwaffe ...

          If they replace the towed guns "Msta-B" and "Giotsint", then this will definitely be a breakthrough in terms of efficiency, speed of transfer, speed of leaving a position, and hence in survival.
          They should not be perceived as an alternative to self-propelled self-propelled guns. They are to replace towed artillery.
          Quote: AAK
          a barrel length of 47 calibers is not even yesterday, but the day before yesterday.

          Look at the barrel length of the 777 and compare the range. It's just that amers have shells with better aerodynamics. When the shells for the "Coalition" go massively, then with such shells the "Malva" will probably be able to shoot in range and 777, and catch up with the "Archer".
          In the meantime, in the army, these "Malvas" will be able to dramatically increase the quality of counter-battery combat and the survival rate of crews.
      2. -1
        11 July 2023 14: 59
        Although the layout will completely allow you to lengthen the barrel without going beyond the size.

        And what initially prevented the barrel from being made 52 caliber long?
      3. 0
        16 July 2023 07: 39
        The project would have been good 40 years ago. Western self-propelled guns hit 40 km, developments are underway to increase the firing distance. That is, in conditions of real fire contact (or counter-battery combat), for example, the Caesar self-propelled guns with the Excalibur projectile will have a 2-fold (!!!) advantage in the shooting distance. How will this end?
    2. 0
      10 July 2023 08: 45
      Quote from: FoBoss_VM
      All advantages are negated by the extremely short firing range of Malva

      That's for sure . good Yes, and it's time to update the line of shells
    3. +3
      10 July 2023 08: 52
      Quote from: FoBoss_VM
      All advantages are negated by the extremely short firing range of Malva

      Yes, by and large, there are no such advantages as such, except for a slight reduction in price due to the base. And given the shortcomings of this base itself, this pepelats is not needed from the word at all.
      1. +3
        10 July 2023 09: 15
        There will be no discount. Everything will be devoured by the launch of the production of this device. So it's really completely pointless.
        1. +3
          10 July 2023 09: 31
          Quote from cold wind
          So it's really completely pointless.

          Systems of this type are a replacement for towed artillery. We just don't hear anything about it.

          So whether the pepelats makes sense or not depends on his place in the troops. It's one thing to be a toy for the Zvezda channel, like the Terminator, and another thing is the regular art of some non-tank units, the same notorious BTGs.

          The second option is somehow too smart for the existing realities.
      2. 0
        10 July 2023 11: 24
        Fewer people needed per gun. 8 people for the place-b, 5 for the mallow. That's all
    4. -1
      10 July 2023 20: 54
      Exactly. 24 km is nothing. Yesterday. Maybe someone will rejoice, but those whose pot is boiling will wince. Slovak Suzanne shoots 40 km. You can't win a war with such a mallow. Hey, mallow gunsmiths, have you been sleeping for 30 years?!
    5. +1
      11 July 2023 00: 51
      Quote from: FoBoss_VM
      All advantages are negated by the extremely short firing range of Malva

      These are tools to stop enemy breakthroughs, or to sharply saturate the offensive of our troops with artillery. In addition, wheeled artillery leaves fewer unmasking traces of movement.
    6. The comment was deleted.
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      10 July 2023 08: 42
      A new weapon of greater power.

      Rather, distance
    2. +10
      10 July 2023 10: 40
      Quote: Setavr
      So many words, but it all comes down to one thing - Cheap Msta-S, a wheeled chassis instead of a tracked one. And that's all.

      Nope. This is not a cheap Msta-S, but a self-propelled Msta-B.
      "Malva" is a replacement for towed guns, which were targets for counter-battery combat back in the 80s.
      Quote: Setavr
      With worse bullet and fragmentation resistance, worse cross-country ability (I don’t understand how this wheeled vehicle with a long base will act on the current battlefield), plus additional spare parts for logisticians.

      But what, does Msta-B have a different cross-country ability and a different tractor base? I'm not talking about sustainability. wink
      Quote: Setavr
      Why create a new chassis if we have thousands of T-72s in storage, not counting other Tesheks.

      * looks thoughtfully at the T-62 and T-55 going towards the front.
      Thousands of T-72s in storage, you say ...

      In addition, the wheelbase of the self-propelled guns is an opportunity to unload Uraltransmash.
      1. +2
        10 July 2023 10: 59
        Quote: Alexey RA
        This is not a cheap Msta-S, but a self-propelled Msta-B.

        Judging by the presence of the receiver on the barrel, just Msta-S
        1. +1
          10 July 2023 15: 59
          Quote: svp67
          Judging by the presence of the receiver on the barrel, just Msta-S

          Ejector? Yes, the barrel is from the self-propelled version. But the Malva has a niche in the OShS - this one is just a replacement for the towed Msta, of which we have plenty.
          1. +1
            10 July 2023 17: 42
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Yes, the barrel is from a self-propelled version.

            There the whole swinging part is from MSTA-S. Due to the presence of a semi-automatic chambering, which is completely absent on the MSTA-B
      2. 0
        11 July 2023 00: 57
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Thousands of T-72s in storage, you say ...

        While the fighting is going on, with less intensity than with the direct participation of NATO, it makes sense to hold on to the T-72 and bring them to a more modern configuration. So it is with the T-92.
      3. 0
        11 July 2023 13: 54
        Well, there really are thousands of T-72s, it's just that all the repair plants that could repair the T-72s were sold for scrap. and for the t-62 one miraculously survived
    3. +4
      10 July 2023 18: 31
      Automated loading.

      OK. You laid the OFS in the stack, and suddenly you needed smoke / REP / Krasnopol, what to do? Unloading stacking, replacing shells is a waste of time. The vast majority of artillery systems (with the exception of the very original "Archer", etc.) shoot from the ground, having shells of other types in the stack just in case.
      Further, the point is not to shoot and dump, the artillery must support the infantry and work continuously on the tasks of the senior commander, i.e. in the short fire raid mode - movement - short fire raid (including "Malva") ... The main defense against KBB is movement.
  3. +4
    10 July 2023 07: 58
    Instead, misunderstandings would increase the production of Msta 2S19M2 and replace its barrel with a 52-caliber one!
  4. +2
    10 July 2023 08: 00
    Finally, something wheeled accepted, the system was pushed through, I just can’t believe it. But, there is a coalition tower with a gun on KAMAZ, where is it? Msta is hopelessly outdated with its 30 km, I hope this is not the only chariot that is starting to enter service.
  5. +2
    10 July 2023 08: 23
    it doesn’t roll very well against the Swedish archer, especially in terms of reloading
    1. 0
      10 July 2023 08: 53
      "against the Swedish archer it doesn't roll very well, especially in "
      so fashionable! how is it that the adversary has, but we don’t, we need to sculpt a worthy answer. and piled.
      again - "Since the middle of the last decade"
      they added an old gun to an old chassis - a victory over the budget. With this money, for sure, a dozen MSTs could be done, or even more than one coalition, I'm not afraid of this word. and they blinded a child prodigy. as if msta-b would not be better. and definitely cheaper if you decide to save
    2. 0
      11 July 2023 14: 46
      Archer cosplays MLRS, quickly shoot the stack and dump, while the tasks of artillery preparation and escort require continuous fire impact.
  6. +7
    10 July 2023 09: 02
    This piece of iron, which does not even have bulletproof and anti-fragmentation armor with a barrel of 47 calibers, will not even live to see the second shot (if you are lucky and have time to fire the first one), because. it will be blown to smithereens either by a drone or enemy counter-battery fire.
    ps To improve the quality of R & D on this "wunderwaffle", I propose to send its developers in full force, together with customers from the Moscow Region, to send to the front of the NWO. Those that survive will begin to design much better.
    1. +2
      10 July 2023 11: 00
      good
      very good and most importantly effective offer
    2. +10
      10 July 2023 11: 10
      Quote: Amateur
      This piece of iron, which does not even have bulletproof and anti-fragmentation armor with a barrel of 47 calibers, will not even live to see the second shot (if you are lucky and have time to fire the first one), because. it will be blown to smithereens either by a drone or enemy counter-battery fire.

      This piece of iron is a replacement for towed artillery, the protection and clotting time of which, during normal counter-battery combat, leave no chance of survival at all after the very first shots.

      And UAVs don’t give a damn whether there is armor or not. For the same "Lancet", that "Paladin", that "Caesar" - it makes no difference. To protect against them, air defense is needed, not armor.
      1. +1
        10 July 2023 21: 52
        If I'm not mistaken, the towed D-30s in the SV began to be replaced by 152-mm MSTA and Akatsiya howitzers 10 years ago. And the towed howitzers themselves have not been produced since the beginning of the 90s
        1. 0
          11 July 2023 10: 09
          Quote: Vlad2012
          If I'm not mistaken, the towed D-30s in the SV began to be replaced by 152-mm MSTA and Akatsiya howitzers 10 years ago.

          And this process was slow and unhurried. Until now, even in the official videos of the Ministry of Defense on the NMD, "Msta-B" appear - you can see, for example, the report of "Zvezda" dated 27.05.2023/XNUMX/XNUMX.
          And I still don’t remember about the towed D-20s that appeared in the videos of the same MO.
    3. -1
      10 July 2023 14: 15
      Dear Dilettante! A tough, but very correct and timely decision regarding the developers and customers of this "miracle weapon" ... But, in the context of the ongoing "development" of capitalism, in Russia, the probability of this proposal (decision) being executed is practically zero, with the addition of the word "actually"....
  7. +13
    10 July 2023 09: 09
    Not a fig I'm "catching up"! And the wheeled "Coalition-SV-KSh" has gone kudyt?
    1. +4
      10 July 2023 09: 19
      Probably, the matter is in automation, which has not yet been replaced by imports.

      Another thing is that the Kamaz chassis is much more preferable, because it is much cheaper.
    2. 0
      10 July 2023 21: 56
      There is a modular charge with the production of which there are difficulties.
    3. 0
      11 July 2023 03: 57
      where-where. . . Coalition-SV-KSh left for Kudykina Gora. Together with Armata. . .
    4. 0
      11 July 2023 14: 02
      where the wheeled coalition is not. in general, all new types of weapons quickly evaporated somewhere. since the age of 14 they have been tormenting armata, a boomerang, a kurgan, a coalition (a little later, it seems), but there is nothing of this in the troops, except for piece armatures. but 9 years have already passed, it is interesting to look in retrospect how much the union has built from 70 to 79, for example.
  8. BAI
    +2
    10 July 2023 09: 45
    The firing range is insufficient. Need more than 40
    1. 0
      11 July 2023 00: 15
      What types of projectiles? Needs to be clarified!
  9. +2
    10 July 2023 10: 58
    And what will we get? the same eggs, only in profile ... i.e. on wheels ... and no other advantages They are silent about the number, it is unlikely to be here and now, manual loading, which means the rate of fire is not high, there is still no booking, but why is it, women still give birth to gunners
    I don’t understand if the caliber would be 203mm or at least 180mm (for example, the S-23 cannon, which is 30-44km) and long-range
    A sample of yesterday, and even the day before yesterday
    After all, how much has been said and written, today more than ever, rate of fire and accuracy are needed! The queue gave right on target and left! Half a day to create "lunar landscapes" today, no one will give!
    1. +2
      10 July 2023 20: 07
      Quote: Dimon-chik-79

      After all, how much has been said and written, today more than ever, rate of fire and accuracy are needed! The queue gave right on target and left! Half a day to create "lunar landscapes" today, no one will give!

      Then maybe guided projectiles for MLRS "Smerch" and "Uragan" - caliber 300mm or 220mm - UAV finds a "target", gives coordinates - MLRS at the same time fires a couple of guided projectiles - right on target.
      The price of the "guided projectile" is compensated by the lower amount of ammo spent on the "target".
      hi
    2. 0
      11 July 2023 01: 08
      Quote: Dimon-chik-79
      And what will we get? the same eggs, only in profile ... i.e. on wheels... and no other advantages

      The main reason for such a hybrid is the manufacturing cost and timing. In any case, it is better to be towed, they will rather be washed away.
  10. +2
    10 July 2023 11: 33
    She would have had an automatic loader so that at least they could attach it like a phlox, otherwise, in fact, the msta-b is equipped with a KAMAZ for transportation, and then this place was loaded onto the bases and that’s all - a new sample!
  11. +1
    10 July 2023 12: 10
    "All parameters remain at the level of current technology."
    Then why is it taking so long to test? They cut the budget! And for Putin's galoshes to appear in the troops, there is no way without it! Now they will make 6 pieces for parades and calm down. To break through the front at a width of 1 km, at least a hundred such guns are needed. Our industry is not designed for such capacities.
  12. +1
    10 July 2023 12: 16
    God forbid that it would show its effectiveness and not become a piece copy like a tornado C
  13. +2
    10 July 2023 12: 34
    Hand on heart, dislike for "Malva" at first sight. I think that all the vague advantages of this project are offset by the existing A-222 "Bereg" caliber 130 mm. Mobility is not worse; rate of fire up to 12 rpm (which "Malva" can only dream of); all-round shelling (against a sector of 60 degrees); ammunition 40 unitary shells against 30 separate; the best security of the calculation with almost the same dimensions. The only plus is the combat weight (it will probably be airborne), i.e. a weapon for light units.
    1. 0
      10 July 2023 15: 41
      The coast is even harder, even worse with patency, and the amount of ammunition for it is rather limited by the standards of the Ground Forces.
  14. -4
    10 July 2023 12: 36
    Put a gun on the railway platform. That would be candy. good
  15. +3
    10 July 2023 12: 58
    It is necessary to be able to make Sau not only worse than Caesar, but also the Ukrainian Bogdana.
    Rostec can
    1. -1
      14 July 2023 08: 05
      I doubt very much that Caesar or Archer would have passed the tests at our training grounds with our military. It's like giving them an M4 carbine. We have rather "specific" requirements from the point of view of NATO.
  16. +3
    10 July 2023 14: 06
    There are no advantages other than mass and mobility, the range is small by today's standards.
  17. +2
    10 July 2023 15: 25
    Quote from Neles
    It is necessary to be able to make Sau not only worse than Caesar, but also the Ukrainian Bogdana.
    Rostec can

    And of course we know who approved this ye for our guys in the troops. The Lord, I hope, will thank this subject fatherly ......
  18. +1
    10 July 2023 15: 39
    Be horrified .... we have been running around the second circle for 40 years.

    https://dzen.ru/a/Wu1zjPAxc7o40KhP
    1. +1
      10 July 2023 22: 31
      Not true! Msta-k has an armored cab, but not here. So before the second round they haven’t screwed up yet
      1. 0
        11 July 2023 08: 37
        At the same time, Malva is 2 tons heavier. It looks like we can no longer make such chassis.
  19. +1
    10 July 2023 18: 09
    Compare the performance characteristics of the SAO 2S43 "Malva" RF and 2S22 "Bogdan" Ukraine and everything will become clear. Rostec has created another wunderwaffe that has no analogues in the world (which is the absolute truth).
  20. 0
    10 July 2023 21: 01
    The maximum firing range of a conventional projectile is approx. 24 km;


    for such a colossus, nothing against the background of French wheeled guns

    sawing budgets is apparently already a bond
  21. -1
    10 July 2023 21: 08
    Quote: VladMirU
    Quote from Neles
    It is necessary to be able to make Sau not only worse than Caesar, but also the Ukrainian Bogdana.
    Rostec can

    And of course we know who approved this ye for our guys in the troops. The Lord, I hope, will thank this subject fatherly ......

    even if you thank
    the score will be in its favor, and it will remember the taste of black caviar and a blend of expensive cognacs
  22. 0
    10 July 2023 21: 10
    Quote: Dimon-chik-79
    After all, how much has been said and written, today more than ever, rate of fire and accuracy are needed! The queue gave right on target and left! Half a day to create "lunar landscapes" today, no one will give!


    Yes, today lunar landscapes are a symbol of the "most modern army in the world." (c) Shoigu
  23. -1
    10 July 2023 22: 44
    Caesar shoots 40 km with active rockets. no need to overthink it. Or 50 km with the accelerator. These shells are expensive. Ours are a little short of 40 km. Again, long barrels are either increased weight or a thin barrel and all the ensuing consequences.
    1. +1
      11 July 2023 00: 24
      Even more dispersion and huge pressure in the barrel in pursuit of long-range == meager barrel survivability.
      1. 0
        11 July 2023 19: 54
        And I about it. And then everyone wants prodigies. Once they did it and we must. There is a tank of 60 tons and we need the same Mouse.
  24. 0
    10 July 2023 22: 51
    We probably have a lot of guns. But how many chassis can be mastered at the BAZ? Piece goods, developed for the Strategic Missile Forces 30 years ago. Load-lifting, but extremely clumsy machine with a small motor resource. I don’t think that when changing positions it will be faster than Msta-S.
    There are no analogues anymore (((If only they limited themselves to parade samples!
  25. +2
    10 July 2023 23: 42
    The artillery unit of the "Malva" is distinguished by a certain simplicity.


    In fact, this is an Msta-B on a wheeled chassis with manual loading ....
    Before the Swedish Archer, she is like before "Paris with cancer" ......

    If you have already made a budget self-propelled guns, then at least organize its mass production so that every month the regimental set of self-propelled guns Malva leaves for the troops.
    Yes, ensure the mass production of long-range active-rocket projectiles so that you can shoot at 40-50 km, albeit with a weakened lightweight charge, but the main thing is to hit the target .....
  26. 0
    10 July 2023 23: 50
    Well, the self-propelled guns are new, but as if old, I hope they will use it as an intermediate product and, based on experience, they will create a really good wheeled self-propelled guns that are not inferior to the archer, but better
  27. 0
    11 July 2023 00: 16
    The barrel is short, the horizontal aiming angle is excessive. There is no automatic loading mechanism. I think you should have a second armory vehicle in pair, which will provide automatic reloading. Targeting should also be robotized so that the machine can shoot in unmanned mode. Advancing to a position in unmanned mode for a distance of up to a couple of kilometers and returning to the crew selection point after firing, I think. can be provided today.
    If you have any doubts, please contact me.
  28. 0
    11 July 2023 00: 41
    Quote: Dost
    Caesar shoots 40 km with active rockets. no need to overthink it. Or 50 km with the accelerator. These shells are expensive. Ours are a little short of 40 km. Again, long barrels are either increased weight or a thin barrel and all the ensuing consequences.

    you should at least check yourself on wikipedia

    actively reactive, he shoots at 55 km just the same
    and 42 km with improved shells
    Nexter Systems has released a self-propelled 155 mm / 52-caliber gun TRAJAN weighing 13 tons, which is a derivative of Cesar. Trajo has the Advans Vega Intertial Guidance System, produced jointly with iXblue, which allows for better shooting accuracy. TRAJAN has a range of up to 42 km with ERFB projectiles and 55 km with active-reactive VLAP.


    in short, write them an angry letter,
    how do they enjoy the achievements while we are gentlemanly
    use the classic
    1. 0
      11 July 2023 08: 41
      Interestingly, the Yankees are also sparse. At least we have Hyacinth (remained), and they have darlings 155/39, which are the same Msta. And how they shoved it, roughly speaking, into Acacia - this is a great secret. And they only talked about wheeled self-propelled guns, although, it would seem, for "light" brigades on Strykers it would be just right. But no.
      1. 0
        11 July 2023 10: 22
        Quote: Dimax-Nemo
        At least we have Hyacinth (remained), and they have darlings 155/39, which are the same Msta.

        Nah, 39 calibers is not Msta. The "Msta" has a barrel of 47 calibers - the beginning of the 80s, the first generation of "Bullev" divisional long-range guns with a barrel of 45-47 calibers. The second generation received a 52-caliber barrel.
        And the Yankees remained in the 70s.
        1. 0
          12 July 2023 08: 21
          I meant that their 155/39 characteristics are approximately similar to Msta when firing a "regular" projectile. There are no howitzers according to the new NATO standard in service with the United States now.
    2. 0
      11 July 2023 10: 19
      Quote from: bravo77
      and 42 km with improved shells

      More precisely, shells with a bottom gas generator.
  29. +1
    11 July 2023 00: 43
    Quote: assault
    The artillery unit of the "Malva" is distinguished by a certain simplicity.


    Yes, ensure the mass production of long-range active-rocket projectiles so that you can shoot at 40-50 km, albeit with a weakened lightweight charge, but the main thing is to hit the target .....



    what are you talking about?
    here they can’t wait for their native Hymers.
    and you set tasks here.

    improved krasnopol still ask.
  30. 0
    11 July 2023 04: 10
    Reading about Malva, I remember the Armata that seems to exist for the first year (a pre-production batch of tanks was made in 2015), SU-57 (first flight in January 2010), Uran-9 (adopted for service in January 2019) and look at calendar - 2023! SVO lasts 17 months. . .
    And where ?! Where is the money, Zin?
    1. 0
      11 July 2023 08: 45
      Su-57, unlike everything else you mentioned above, is in the series. If you can consider mass production of 12 cars per year. In the context of this article, the Coalition suggests itself, which seems to have shown itself well last summer. But which is still being tested, and which, apparently, has big problems with ammunition. Starting from new shells that are different from everything that was before, ending with a modular charge.
  31. 0
    11 July 2023 08: 34
    It seems to me that when they talk about wheeled self-propelled guns, they miss one point. When the military in Soviet times at the end of the 70s demanded wheeled self-propelled guns from the military-industrial complex, they proceeded from the fact that the Soviet army would advance on Western Europe, where it is not difficult to find a good road, where there are many bridges of sufficient carrying capacity. In such conditions, wheeled vehicles really have advantages over tracked vehicles.

    Now we have the opposite situation. We are definitely not going to the English Channel. We have to wallow in our native mud, in which equipment with a load of 8 tons per axle will simply sink. And that means - no armor, no automatic loader, no ammunition on the self-propelled guns itself, supply from the ground. And no comparisons with tracked self-propelled guns. At the same time, the base is preferably the same as that of the promising MLRS. And the same level of mobility. If all this disgrace does not fit into 20 tons, a maximum of 24 tons, then thanks, no need.
  32. 0
    11 July 2023 15: 19
    Where is the self-propelled guns 2S35-1 "Coalition-SV-KSh"?
    ____________________________________________
    1. 0
      12 July 2023 08: 22
      In the same place as the Coalition itself. If for the caterpillar at least an experimental batch was for military trials, then this one is not even there. And there is no mass-produced ammunition for them, there is modular loading, so far we have not done this.
  33. +2
    11 July 2023 17: 55

    These are the performance characteristics that a modern self-propelled guns should have, and not this craft of the last century. I admit that this ersatz self-propelled guns can exist, but only as a complete replacement for the MSTA-B artillery systems and the like, and then if its production is comparable in price to the price of the MSTA-B along with the tractor. Again, a question about the choice of the trunk. If the system is completely new and is just being put into operation, which means there are decades of operation ahead, then why the hell does it come with an old barrel and old ammunition, instead of a barrel from the Coalition and its BP nomenclature? Or will the production of obsolete shells continue to continue? Where is the automation? Where is the electronic filling? While this "analogue" turns around, the calculation on a piece of paper calculates the parameters, aims, and finally fires the first shot, the Dita self-propelled gun or similar will already give out half of the ammo to the target and leave the position, and the crew will not even get out of the cockpit.
  34. 0
    11 July 2023 17: 59
    I read all the comments, I would like specifics. What is the dispersion ellipse of a gun firing a regular "blank" at the maximum range? What charge is used and how does the use of such a charge affect the resource of the barrel.? How many and what parameters should be taken into account when shooting at maximum range? The network has data for a 122 mm divisional howitzer, dispersion in direction is 30 meters, in range 176 meters, and this is when firing at 5 km.
    1. 0
      12 July 2023 08: 27
      When shooting at maximum range, there is a lot, so without shells like Excalibur, there is not much point in this lesson. Is the divisional howitzer M-30 or D-30?
      1. -1
        12 July 2023 08: 57
        I'll answer honestly, I don't know, so in the article. The article is more for dummies than for specialists, although the presentation of the material is very accessible, everything is described, and what accuracy and accuracy are, how data is calculated for shooting, and much more
        1. 0
          14 July 2023 08: 01
          It still seems to me that km. at 10 D-30 should shoot accurately enough for it to make sense. For the M-30, this is almost the maximum range.
  35. 0
    12 July 2023 03: 43
    Where is the coalition? While not at the front and does not help, this is all nonsense! Since 2015, you can ride in parades and in battle Zero!
  36. 0
    12 July 2023 21: 00
    An artillery system was developed, which has been used in the world for about thirty years. What is the progress here? There is no progress. Long range requires new projectile aerodynamics... We have come to the problem that the "Coalition" has... The French CAESAR, which is similar, was developed 30 years ago.
  37. -1
    13 July 2023 20: 25
    The Malva project is based on the concept of a highly mobile lightweight artillery system on a wheeled chassis.

    It cannot be said that the concept is a complete dead end, but this product is very long, its effective disguise will be difficult, and the stability of the system against fragmentation also makes me skeptical. Like a wolf, which is "feeded by its feet", such art will work and survive the better, the more opportunities for rides and camouflage the terrain provides. There is only one problem - as the author writes (and this is logical for a wheeled chassis), its cross-country ability is lower than that of a tracked one. And here is the second trouble of the concept - a rather bulky and nimble product will have to dive (for the most part) in urban areas, because it is from there that it can quickly roll out, work out, and drive back on good roads. All this is very beautiful, but how realistic are such cozy conditions for the same NWO? No, for Ukraine they are quite real, this product would be just a cake for them, a good toy for defense based on NP. And for everything else?

    Such wheeled colossi come in very well with the Europeans, where there are roads and us. There are many points, and according to the strategy, they seem to think in many respects from defense, but for us - is all this conceptually suitable and, most importantly, modern? Indeed, without armor, with such a wide profile, a penny UAV will fly in and take out nafig ..
  38. 0
    16 July 2023 17: 22
    Quote from: FoBoss_VM
    All advantages are negated by the extremely short firing range of Malva


    From Wikipedia:
    Firing range - 24,5 km [6]. - at such a distance it is difficult to hit something without GSM.
    Rate of fire - up to 7 rds / min [7].
    Calculation - 5 people.
    The amount of ammunition carried - 30 rounds[8].
    Dimensions, length / width / height - 13 / 2,75 / 3,1 meters [9].
    Gross weight - 32 tons.
    Due to the abandonment of the turret and the reservation of the gun installation site, the vehicle became much lighter, which made it possible to transport it by VTA aircraft, such as the Il-76.
  39. 0
    17 July 2023 23: 24
    Absolute crap this Malva. Distance is non-existent. We need a normal 152/52 gun, like a coalition.

    What was the problem with installing the coalition gun on wheels ???
  40. 0
    23 July 2023 07: 28
    This CAO needs a cabin with anti-fragmentation protection.

    The crew should have a chance to survive when weapons positions are detected and fired upon by the enemy.
  41. 0
    12 August 2023 19: 53
    What catches your eye when the artillery system of the late 20th century is passed off as "achieving 2023. The project is not just crude, it is stupid and seems to have been designed by the women's bureau of summer residents. This is when everything seems to be outwardly, but there is no main thing - the mind! Under the 152 caliber gun mm, with a barrel of at least 8 m, the presented base platform will not withstand even 50 shots! The wheel formula 8x8 will not work either, only 10x10, with a significantly reinforced frame, rear and side support platforms for stable shooting. The performance characteristics must meet modern requirements for counter-battery combat. That is, the firing range is at least 60 km, the rate of fire is at least 10 rounds per minute and the accuracy is higher than Western models. With weaker performance characteristics, the system will be destroyed in the first hours of the battle. Why again throw dust in people's eyes, imitating IBD ( imitation of vigorous activity). There is a "Coalition SV" with an excellent weapon. There you need to develop production, and not invest, as always, in a rotten duck!
  42. 0
    18 August 2023 19: 42
    And what were the requirements of the MO in the TOR?
  43. -1
    20 October 2023 14: 22
    Why create a self-propelled gun with characteristics from the 90s of the last century?!

    Why can’t we at least increase the barrel length from 47 to 52 calibers, so that the range is at least equal to the best NATO models?!

    Why did Ukraine think of creating a Bagdana with a 52-caliber barrel and a range of 40-45 km OFS and 60 active-reactive, but we DON’T?!

    This is sabotage, sabotage and betrayal; I have no other explanation for what is happening.
  44. 0
    18 November 2023 16: 19
    What's new and breakthrough here? They took the 2A65 gun from the towed msta-b, self-propelled msta-s, and placed it on a wheeled chassis, because Kamaz or Ural are too weak for him; they took a BAZ. We got something intermediate between msta-b and msta-s, more mobile (quickly folded/unfolded) but less protected, that’s all. And as a result, a rather old gun is bolted to an expensive chassis that is excessive in terms of carrying capacity.