Our answer to Gepard: anti-aircraft guns based on the BTR-82A

New twin self-propelled anti-aircraft machine at the Future Engineers 2023 exhibition. Source: Telegram

"Dronoboyka" for the Russian Army

The use of light armored vehicles as carriers of various non-standard weapons is the main trend in world conflicts in recent decades. The special operation in Ukraine was no exception. MTLB and MTLB-U are used as a base, less often - armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. What they just don’t put on cars - from anti-aircraft guns to primitive MLRS. On the one hand, this indicates a large amount of equipment on which experiments can be carried out in the troops. On the other hand, it indicates a clear shortage of highly mobile, well-armed and, most importantly, inexpensive combat vehicles.

At the same time, the problem has been voiced for a very long time, but so far it has not been finally resolved. In fairness, the enemy’s situation is much worse - there is simply not enough equipment for alterations. Ukrainians are not able to produce their own armored vehicles, and import deliveries are far from always suitable for experimental work.

At the same time, the list of threats to personnel and equipment is only growing. Ukraine is gradually developing and mastering the production of analogues of the Russian Geranium. It's still a long way from widespread use, but it never hurts to prepare for the worst. At the same time, the Russian army has something to shoot down heavy flying kamikazes - the arsenal is more than extensive. Here are the obsolete "Shilka", and "Arrows" in various versions, and the famous "Tunguska".

Crowns all ZRPK "Pantsir-C1 / C2". But all this fraternity is distinguished by either high cost, or not the best mobility, or both. Rocket-cannon systems - Pantsir and Tunguska are excellent for the role of "drono-piercers", but this technique is much more effective against MLRS and low-flying missiles. aviation the adversary.

In addition, this couple is very expensive to manufacture, in order to shoot down Ukrainian drones-kamikaze. The enemy has similar problems - the widely advertised Gepard anti-aircraft tank is even more expensive and less mobile.

As a result, in the second year of the special operation, the need to develop an inexpensive, lightly armored wheeled platform with anti-aircraft guns and a radar target detection system became clear. A machine for speedy mass production should be as unified as possible with existing equipment.

New twin self-propelled anti-aircraft machine at the Future Engineers 2023 exhibition. Source: Telegram

The first prototype that meets the described requirements was shown at the end of June in the Tula region at the International Youth Industrial Forum "Engineers of the Future-2023". Judging by open information, the car has not yet received a name, and design features can only be judged from the photo. But there are a lot of interesting things here too.

"Shaitan Arba 2.0"

The engineers chose the BTR-82A as the base for the potential drone strike. The decision is fair - heavy kamikaze of the Geranium class, if they appear in Ukraine, they will work on rear facilities. Here, armored personnel carrier armor is quite enough, and the high mobility and survivability of the chassis allows you to quickly transfer vehicles in the depths of defense.

It can be assumed that such a machine will work on UAVs, which for various reasons could not land Russian electronic warfare systems. The main argument against drones the enemy is a pair of 23-mm anti-aircraft guns 2A7.

This well-deserved weapon leads its history since 1962, when it appeared as part of the Shilka self-propelled anti-aircraft gun. The quadruple automatic machine developed in Tula TsKB-14 made it possible to effectively shoot down air targets at ranges up to 2,5 km and altitudes up to 1,5 km. In this case, the maximum speed of objects could reach 450 m / s. During its career, "Shilka" was not so often used for its intended purpose - the features of military conflicts affected. For the first time, they learned about the capabilities of the machine in the late 60s during the Arab-Israeli war.

While serving in the Soviet Army, the Shilka became famous, first of all, in Afghanistan, when it smashed the fortifications of the Mujahideen to pieces in a matter of seconds. For this, she was awarded the nickname "Devil's Cart" or "Shaitan Arba". Four 23-mm guns received a proper name as part of Shilka AZP-23 Amur, and together with the turret, the product is called 2A10. The number of barrels halved on the BTR-82A, presented at the Engineers of the Future 2023 exhibition, makes it possible to be prudent with the stock of shells carried.

Four 23-mm guns AZP-23 "Amur" based on the tracked "Shilka"

Indicators weapons outstanding, but not devoid of specificity. The rate of fire is about a thousand rounds per minute, and the survivability of the barrel on the first "Shilki" did not exceed three thousand rounds. Later, due to improved heat dissipation, the resource was increased to 4,5 thousand shots. Judging by the photographs from the exhibition, the gun on the BTR-82A retained liquid cooling - antifreeze is driven along the outer surface of the barrel.

This, by the way, reduces the survivability of the gun at the forefront, where dense fragmentation fields from artillery are the main damaging factor. There are two types of shells in the 2A7 ammunition load - armor-piercing incendiary tracer and high-explosive fragmentation tracer. The former are capable of inflicting damage only due to kinetic energy, as they are intended for target designation and adjustment of the line of fire. Four high-explosive fragmentation shells and one tracer shell alternate in the belt.

Unfortunately, so far there is no talk of any programmable air blasting - this will multiply the cost of both the ammunition load and the gun itself. A 23-mm high-explosive fragmentation projectile, when hit, is guaranteed to disable any UAV - the mass of the projectile is almost two hundred grams, and the initial speed is up to 1 m / s.

Observation-panoramic system from JSC "STC Elins"

For aiming the gun, searching for and tracking targets, a radar is provided, as well as a spherical survey and panoramic system. The lead developer, JSC STC Elins, is not the first time dealing with the anti-aircraft issue. Based on open sources, it is known that the company created control equipment for the experimental ZU-23 / 30M1-4. Behind the long name is a deeply modernized ZU-23-2 towed installation. The product is widely used in the army, primarily as a payload on trucks, MTLBs and airborne armored personnel carriers.

Seven years ago, Elins developed control and surveillance equipment for the installation, which included thermal imaging and television cameras, a computer system and a laser rangefinder. The technique significantly increased the efficiency of the well-deserved anti-aircraft installation, but was based on an imported element base. In particular, the TV machine worked on the Intel X86 Core 2 Duo, and the computer system on the Motorola MC68040. In 2020, Elins engineers, on their own initiative, created the Vityaz control system for the BMP-3.

According to the developers, the technique made it possible to increase the accuracy and accuracy of firing from guns by 1,5 times, as well as significantly improve the awareness of the commander and gunner about the battlefield. Particular emphasis is placed on "self-destruction of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) using standard weapons." In the future, the module could provide remote control of the fighting compartment of the BMP-3.

ZU-23 / 30M1-4 with remote control at the exhibition "Engineers of the Future - 2023". Source: myslo.ru

In addition to the above, Elins' portfolio includes thermal imaging cameras, laser warning systems, sighting systems, and more. Some developments of the office were exhibited in the Tula region at the International Youth Industrial Forum "Engineers of the Future-2023". The information has not been fully disclosed, but it seems that Elins presented a remote-controlled ZU-23 / 30M1-4. The gun operator with a laptop and a pair of joysticks can be located at a distance from the gun, which significantly increases the chances of survival.

The appearance of specialized "drone piercers" for the needs of the NWO is a good sign. Domestic industry, albeit not as quickly as we would like, responds to the challenges of the enemy. At the same time, nothing fundamentally new is required - it is enough to put together solutions that have been proven over the years on a modern element base.

The self-propelled anti-aircraft gun presented in the Tula region is a clear confirmation of this. It remains to wait for the exact characteristics of the product and the imminent appearance in the troops.

Comments

[andrewkor]

According to the title of the article, the Author was a little cunning. Our counterparts Cheetah are no match for our counterparts, the answer was given a long time ago!

[Civil]

Excellent developments. At the same time, it is necessary to resolve the second half of the issue - remote detonation of shells and (or) with programmable detonation.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Civil

Excellent developments.

Without a programmable projectile detonation, all this is guano. The probability of hitting a large maneuvering target is about 5%, and even a small UAV is not realistic at all.

[maksbazhin]

In 23 mm, undermining cannot be stuffed or is much more difficult, so the entire development immediately reduces the potential for modernization. And with the explosion, the number of shots will decrease and it will be possible to abandon water cooling.

[rytik32]

It would be better to have 1x57 mm - this is the minimum with a programmable detonation and 1x12,7 for self-defense against kamikaze drones.

[lodochnik2000]

"what if"
discussed at VIF:
The 57-mm cannon "with explosion" is too high-tech product for today's Russian military-industrial complex.

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

For 23mm, it will be expensive and ineffective, there are fragments from the projectile, figs and nothing, and their spread is scanty ... Even for 30mm it makes no sense. The complexity of the production of shells will negate the benefits of saving them. So the car will also have to have an ultra-accurate rangefinder so that the shells explode no further than a meter from the drone, and this will not work at all for armored targets like mi-24 or su-25 ...
For 57mm and above, this is already interesting. There, there are more masses of explosives and there is a volume in the projectile for striking elements. And the range is higher, which means that there is no need to put such an installation right on the cutting edge, which means that an expensive installation has more chances to survive ...
It is also necessary to modernize all naval artillery 76-105-130 mm, a good rangefinder, and remote detonation of shells with striking elements, then it will immediately at least have some sense, but for now it is a useless anachronism ...

[Alexey Lantukh]

By the way, the Cheetah has 35 mm guns, and also has both armor-piercing for the ground and high-explosive fragmentation shells for air defense.

[savage3000]

And that's right. We have a Tunguska and a shell. All this is better than a cheetah.

[Ivan_91]

In general, Skynex and Skyranger are now the best drones in Ukraine. They are more mobile and have a remote detonation.

[scientist]

With such a frenzied intensity of the use of UAVs and their means of destruction, it is high time to develop a compact identification system. The application system for UAV flights is, in principle, outdated and probably leads to serious losses from "friendly" fire.

[Andrey Moskvin]

Do drones from the deep rear take off to fly over their air defenses? I think from the front.

[alexoff]

Drones are returning to their rear, go figure out whose

[Andrey Moskvin]

Right. I only thought about the kamikaze, I forgot about the scouts - the observers.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

It's a good thing, but I think that somewhere in the warehouses there are also ZSU 23-4 "Shilka": they should be re-opened ...

[Toucan]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

It's a good thing, but I think that somewhere in the warehouses there are also ZSU 23-4 "Shilka": they should be re-opened ...

Shilka uses an archaic, hopelessly outdated hardware complex based on electrovacuum devices. Of course, it can be transferred to a modern element base, but somehow this did not work out. The price tag that the industry put up for such a modernization of the Moscow Region did not suit.

[uncle Vlad]

On the SS-20 (which Mishka cut) stood and the radio station "Kazakhstan" Lampovaya, by the way. It did not fly out during a nuclear explosion, they say it was checked.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

It's a good thing, but I think that somewhere in the warehouses there are also ZSU 23-4 "Shilka": they should be re-opened ...

"Shilka" was good in the 50-60s of the last century. It shoots beautifully, the adversary is scary, but no more. The probability of getting anywhere from it is not large enough (the spread is large and the range of a direct shot is very small).

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

There are shilkas, but they need serious modernization in terms of radal, OLS, suo ... That is, what is more difficult to do and costs the most ... Yes, and the machines themselves clearly require major repairs. The question is, then it may be more efficient to build such armored personnel carriers.

[Bingo]

Drones are needed differently. Specifically, this one is suitable for knocking down UAVs used by dill for terrorist attacks in cities. That's just

imminent appearance in the army

How the hell is she there? WHO to beat? Maviki is clearly not her goal, she can only get there by chance, and she can only be found by chance. A normal spotter UAV, like our Orlan, will stupidly climb three kilometers - and knock him down to a carrot spell. Lanceolate - you will also get hell. Geraniums with the advent of such - will also climb three km.

[Catfish]

Our response to Gepard:

Something he belated, this answer.

Cheetah -- Producer Krauss-Maffei
Production years 1973—
Years of operation since 1976.

Anti-aircraft guns based on the BTR-82A - at the exhibition "Engineers of the Future - 2023".
Half a century...

[Zufei]

Cheetah 35mm - height 3000m
Shilka 23mm - height 1500m

[Bingo]

Quote: Zufei

Cheetah 35mm - height 3000m
Shilka 23mm - height 1500m

Cheetah - rate of fire 1100 rounds per minute, ammunition 340 rounds
Shilka - 3400v / min, 2000)))
Targets here and there, one projectile is enough, but the Cheetah has a multiple less chance to hit. And a target flying at 3 km, outside the Shilka zone, will just as easily take off at 5 km - out of reach for the Cheetah

[Roman Efremov]

If the Cheetah has a projectile with a programmable detonation, it can also shoot down at an altitude of 3 km. If not (and all these developments in the photo for a caliber of 30 mm definitely don’t have it) - it won’t hit a compact target even for 2 km, it would have to hit 1. Here, it is not the caliber that comes to the fore, but the density of the flow of shells, which Shilka has many times higher.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Sea Cat

Something he belated, this answer.

Because our answer to "Cheetah" is 2C6.

And the article describes another SHORADische - too large for small tactical UAVs and too "close-range" for UAVs of specific reconnaissance and adjustment.

[Pavel57]

It is a pity that the Yenisei anti-aircraft complex did not appear. Although it was tested simultaneously with Shilka. Then the caliber 37mm would have been preserved.

[Mister X]

Quote: Pavel57

Yenisei anti-aircraft complex

The official reports do not clearly indicate why they were not accepted.
Maybe the ammo is small?

[Wildcat]

IMHO, Shilka was taken because it was more efficient at low altitudes. It was assumed in those days (and correctly, IMHO) that ZSU is needed to hit targets at those heights where air defense systems are ineffective.

According to SABZH - a strange decision.
It seems that there are already 30 mm and 57 mm domestic AHEAD.
To make a 23 mm ZSU with the characteristics of Shilka (height 1,5, range 2,5, and this despite the fact that even the Cheetah is 3 and 5 (5,5) kilometers) is very strange.

The new generation of ZSU with 30-35mm AHEAD (the same Millenniums / Skyrangers) is already positioned as effective not only against UAVs, but also against mortars and MLRS (up to anti-ship missiles and artillery shells).
Here the BTR82 in the "ZSU in half Shilka" variant does not look very good at all.

IMHO, but the base for a 23 mm ZSU in the form of an BTR82 looks strange. They already put 30 mm on it in an uninhabited tower (with not the best characteristics, IMHO, 30 mm from BMP2 was already "hard"). It is not clear how the BTR82 will "survive" a tower with two 23 mm guns, there is also a radar and an OLS (by the way, where is the BC?) - it is not clear.

From the good news - well, finally the Zu23 is being modernized.
Already all Zu23 operators, from Finns to Poles, make both a normal control system and drives for external control. And a normally modernized Zu23 can, in the "Rattle at maximum speeds" variant, be able to somehow replace the ZSU if the domestic AHEAD fails ... Especially if MANPADS are also integrated.

[sivuch]

IMHO, Shilka was taken because it was more efficient at low altitudes.
And here is what side to look at. Shilka had a higher probability of hitting a target in MV and WWII. At the same time, the targets were - Il-28 and MiG-17 on bombing. And an anti-tank helicopter hovering at a distance of at least 2.5-3 km - here the picture would be completely different. And the detection and aiming system of the Yenisei was much better, as well as survivability and the ability to fire at ground targets.

[Wildcat]

You see, IMHO, when choosing Shilka, she was considered precisely as part of the air defense of the division, and in this role she looked more effective than the Yenisei for the reasons you indicated - MV and PMV were a problem for air defense systems, and if the target went higher - she had someone to do.
In principle, the correctness of this decision was confirmed at the debut of Shilka in the Middle East, where, according to the recollections of an Israeli pilot, it was the losses from Shilka in such systemic air defense that reached half of those shot down.
IMHO, if you then made the decision "Shilka or Yenisei", you would also choose Shilka under such conditions.

Another question is that the rejection of the Yenisei as an air defense system for tank divisions was not quite the right decision (probably, the long range of the Yenisei would have priority there, as well as greater combat stability). Soon enough, I had to admit that we needed a larger caliber (they chose 30 mm for the Tunguska), the transition from Shilok to Tunguska was never completed, and Pantsir was used as the "air defense of the first line" (Pantsir, of course, is not the "first line", but according to fact ....) IMHO has low stability and patency.
As a result - two calibers (23 and 30 mm) for memory, none of them have AHEAD in the troops; the third one appears - 57 mm in the Air Defense Derivation, but something is not visible and there are questions about it.

Regarding the issues of intrigue in the military-industrial complex, there were various "OBS", including the one according to which it was the designers of the air defense system that "defended" Shilka, since they needed a means to "lift" enemy aircraft from WWI and MV, where air defense systems were ineffective.

[sivuch]

In any case, Yenisei would be much better in TD. and in the first place - precisely because of its capabilities against anti-tank helicopters. And the probability of hitting a target is a thing in itself. After all, it, the goal, was first required to be discovered, and the Yenisei was better with this.
Another factor, however, is obvious only now - it is incomparably easier to shove a remote detonation into a 37 mm caliber.

[lodochnik2000]

> It seems that there are already 30 mm and 57 mm domestic AHEAD.
--
at the level of presentations and life-size layouts - yes
and so no.

[sivuch]

1. Shilka is cheaper.
2. Shilka is lighter and more suitable for Marines and Airborne Forces.
3. There is an unconfirmed version that the missile lobby, and Nikita's son in particular, feared that the Yenisei might be a competitor to Osa.
They also wrote that the designers of the Yenisei themselves were not too interested in promoting ZAK, since there was enough work in the Circle.
And the advantages of the Yenisei are well known. First of all, the ability to destroy helicopters with ATGMs of the first and second generation (work on Tou just began in 62)

[Evgeny Kirichenko]

It flashed in one of the publications of the Ministry of Defense devoted to the history of the air defense of the SV that the 37-mm machine guns were never completed - the insufficient survivability of the barrel and the low reliability of the gun remained. Because of this, the towed Shkval was also wrapped up.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pavel57

It is a pity that the Yenisei anti-aircraft complex did not appear.

The FSB and military counterintelligence would do well to find out the nature of the anti-lobby of promising weapons. Even I understand that it was not without the intervention of foreign intelligence services.

[AC130 Gunship]

Are you sure that these are their tasks today? Oh well

[SovAr238A]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

Are you sure that these are their tasks today? Oh well

And what difference does it make, what betrayal is expressed in?
Undermining railway tracks, or relay cabinets, throwing Molotov cocktails at military registration and enlistment offices, transmitting data on the movement of the military, disclosing radio station codes, lobbying for the production of obviously worse weapons - all this leads to a decrease in the country's defense capability - and the essence of betrayal!

[Alexey RA]

And we will get again the best years of our history. When developers and production workers enthusiastically settled scores with the help of Holy Inquisition Offices.

Pest Firsov, former head of the design bureau at the KhPZ plant, where it was transferred by the pest Neiman, the former head of Spetsmashtrest; at plant number 48 (Kharkiv), where those. the director was the fascist pest Simsky, who dragged the fascist Gakkel to plant number 48 and put him in charge of the production of BT-IS. ... Farmanyants - Deputy Head of the 8th Ch. Ex. NKOP tried to disrupt the release of BT-IS. …Your intervention is needed.

© "On pests in the manufacture of BT-IS". Letter from a military technician of the 2nd rank N.F. Tsyganov to the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks comrade. Stalin and comrade. Voroshilov dated October 26, 1937.
Moreover, Tsyganov himself was arrested in 1938.

[Vadim S]

It is possible to upgrade the ZSU 57-2, which have been in storage for a long time, but for them it is necessary to change the entire control system and new projectiles with remote detonation, it will be very expensive. In general, against drones, it is necessary to reduce the caliber and increase the number of barrels, if remote detonation is too expensive for us, then we need to create a cloud of bullets, at least from 12.7 and higher.

[agond]

More does not always mean that it is better, with an increase in caliber, the rate of fire decreases, and the mass of the installation increases, the reach in height and range also grows, not as good as we would like, and it turns out that a combination of automatic gun + missiles is necessary
And in a 23mm projectile, of course, a programmable detonation is needed ..

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Vadim S

It is possible to upgrade ZSU 57-2 that have been in storage for a long time

If they are. These are not tanks.

[Vlad2012]

Miser pays twice. You can shoot down an UAV with several remotely detonated projectiles or spend hundreds of bullets in white light like a pretty penny and hoping that one of them will hit such a small target.

[Blackgrifon]

Weird car, IMHO. With the same features, it is easier, and possibly more effective, to install a module with a 23 mm gun + MANPADS + OPS on the Tiger / Athlete / Spartak.

[Tank destroyerSU-100]

And what prevents you from taking the Shilka, modernizing its radio electronics and electro-optical guidance system and launching it against drones? Judging by the available information, a certain number of hundreds of these machines still remained in storage bases.
Another option is also possible - a simplified "Tunguska" without missile weapons. You can also abandon the radar, since drones made of composite materials are an extremely difficult object for the radar and guidance will have to be carried out via an electron-optical channel with a laser rangefinder. But equipping a thermal imager with high sensitivity will not hurt to detect heat-contrasting objects in the air. The cost of such ZSU will be significantly lower compared to ZPRK.
Such a ZSU will be more effective than 23 mm improvisation, since the 30 mm Tunguska cannons have a higher rate of fire, greater range and reach in height, and their 400-gram projectile is multiple times more powerful than the 23-mm projectile.

[Igor K]

Power for "toy" drones is not so important, remote detonation is needed for effective destruction while saving ammunition and barrel life.

[Proctologist]

Thank you for the article! Almost the first in which a seditious thought is carefully expressed

UAVs that, for various reasons, could not land Russian EW systems

.
Looking at the use of "Cheetahs", made 70 years ago for other tasks, against drones, I completely agree that the wheelbase for such a memory is better. Well, the uninhabited and automatic combat module itself is important - if necessary, it will not be difficult to put it on the MTLB, also a finished chassis. I hope the designers thought about it.

[Ghost1]

When these products go to the army, then another conversation, and so at exhibitions every year advanced technologies are shown that remain there.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

That's what it is necessary to revive without fail, ZSU on the base Stalin's threshers (ZSU-57-2).

Such machines can be guaranteed to hit high-altitude UAVs at a lower cost than when using anti-aircraft missiles.
Naturally, the shells must be modern, as well as detection and guidance systems.

In addition, there is a need to additionally equip short-range self-propelled air defense systems like these:

Machine guns caliber 12,7 and 7,62. You can simply hang ready-made GUV-1.

For work on small UAVs.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

A sensible comment, that's just to replace the ZSU-57-2, as if "Derivation-Air Defense" is ready with automatic supply of ammunition.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

A sensible comment, that's just to replace the ZSU-57-2, as if "Derivation-Air Defense" is ready with automatic supply of ammunition.

There the trunk is shorter and the reach in height is lower. But modern means of guidance and detection may well give a second life and FOR large calibers.

[Vadim S]

Zsu 57-2 guidance system is only manual and there was no electronics at all. If Shilka turned out to be expensive to update the breo, then these essentially need to be put in everything new and squeezed in somewhere! This has been thrashed over and over again. And software fuses will increase the price even more. I assure you that no one will do anything about it, only there are plans and money for the development of wooding.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Zsu 57-2 guidance system is only manual and there was no electronics at all.

I specifically highlighted on the base. Or do you not understand what it means?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: vovochkarzhevsky

I specifically singled out, at the base. Or do you not understand what it means?

In your case"on the base" Means "redesign".
Because a new tower with drives, new means of detection and a new SUAO will be needed. All this will require volumes and power supply, so you will have to change the engine and look for a place for the APU - and there it’s not far to replace the base.
After that, it turns out that cannons with 4-shot clip feed are not suitable - and the Burevestnik will happily try to shove its AU-220M onto this ZSU. And the output will be ... a double-barreled "Derivation" at the price of "Shell".

[Glagol1]

It is not entirely correct to compare, the cheetah has a caliber of 35 mm and the main task is to fight larger targets. 2X23 mm - this is for helicopters / planes and drones. For drones, even redundant. For drones, 2x12,7 or 4x12,7 is ideal.
Here we are looking forward to them!

[wlkw]

Yes, I also tend to think that it would be good for electronic warfare operators to transfer a specialized installation (maybe with remote control) for 1-2 rapid-fire machine guns 7,62. Just for every little thing flying ...

[Blackgrifon]

There was at one time an SRBM project based on the Tiger - in fact, a reconnaissance vehicle with a set of drones and a machine gun module - change the drones for newer ones and install MANPADS with a search station - and it will work quite well for itself. Yes, even in the database, it will still be relevant for scouts and (now) for crews of drone operators.

[Alekandr]

Such a product is only suitable for object protection against kamikaze UAVs. Due to the limited range and wheelbase, it will not be suitable for combating reconnaissance quadrocopters and aircraft UAVs. Those. the copter will notice it before entering the affected area (or when firing) and will direct the artillery + not everywhere and not always it will be able to pass. Because quadrocopters are rarely more than 500 meters away from the reconnaissance object, you can use small arms with "smart sights" like SMASH 2000. For the RPG-7, this has already been developed. To defeat all types of UAVs, the ZAK "Derivation-Air Defense" would be ideal. But it has not been adopted yet.

[AntidipresaHt]

And somewhere the lonely Air Defense Derivation is bored in anticipation of acceptance and an experimental batch

[senima56]

"... Unfortunately, there is no talk of any programmable air blast yet ..." It's a pity! Then, and there is nothing to talk about yet! I saw the plot when out of 4 guns "Shell S-1" tried to shoot down a flying target - everything is past! And this is with the "monstrous" rate of fire of 4 30 mm guns of the "Pantsir"!
So, whatever one may say, only remotely detonated projectiles are a real, real variant of fighting a swarm of cheap UAVs!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Not everything is so clear. For example, 12,7 mm caliber bullets are tracer and it is quite possible to aim at them, including with the help of smart sights. Progress does not stand still and sooner or later guidance systems and drives will begin to meet all the necessary requirements.

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

If this is an anti-drone, then instead of missiles like on a shell, it would be good to put a jammer there like an anti-drone gun, but you can put it more powerfully with battery power ...

[Observer2014]

Whatever they don’t come up with, they don’t have to make a good projectile (30 mm) with accurate remote detonation

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

For small projectiles, this is not effective. It turns out very expensive and inefficient. Expensive shells, expensive electronics, but at the same time, a meager diameter of fragmentation, poor coverage and weak impact. With a normal suo (and many times simpler than for undermining), giving a couple of long bursts and hitting an object is corny many times easier and cheaper ...
Expensive complex machines are not for war - their production cannot be increased in case of war, and this is even in a situation where cruise missiles do not fly to factories, and military equipment must be such that it can be produced and mass-produced, taking into account the fact that in the first day of the war, all major defense enterprises will be hit by the enemy.

[Fangaro]

... nothing fundamentally new is required - it is enough to put together solutions that have been proven over the years on a modern element base.

If the author is talking about electronics, then it is just now that is difficult. Cooperated in previous decades. Now countries (not only us) are racing towards technological independence.

[Mikhail Maslov]

Why is it so, if only, it was necessary. All the guys are at war and you need to act and decide quickly. It’s good that at least someone thinks and does. this is escort of columns from UAVs with drop functions, protection of deployment sites and not alone, but with the same "Panzer". This system is an addition to the existing ones.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Let me bring you down to earth a little. If a projectile is used, and not a bullet, then a self-liquidator is already needed instead of a conventional fuse, and this multiplies the cost of ammunition. And, is it worth fencing the garden in this case, if there are machine-gun modules, including combined ones of different calibers and not requiring a self-liquidator. And if you are going to resist large drones, for example, capable of dropping 82-mm mines, then missiles and the same Pantsir are better suited here.
Development without missiles, due to its short range and the high cost of ammunition, requires at least careful study and verification, even at the concept stage.

[certero]

The enemy drone hangs over their positions at an altitude of a couple of kilometers and there is no danger from the equipment described in the article for it. But he himself sees the entire battlefield and our positions are excellent.
In the same way, our drones hang.
So far there is nothing to shoot down such things, there is nothing to even reliably detect those except for observing the sky

[Roman Efremov]

Quote: vovochkarzhevsky

That's what it is necessary to revive without fail, ZSU on the base Stalin's threshers (ZSU-57-2).

Without a projectile with a programmable detonation and automated guidance, no one needs this junk.

[runway-1]

Unfortunately, so far there is no talk of any programmable air blast.

And this is very important!

[tima_ga]

And why Derivation does not suit? Yes, the projectile is more expensive, but the machine is universal and made from scratch

[alexoff]

Fighter drones would be best against drones. A large quadcopter would catch up with all kinds of mavics and shoot at them with a net, which birds are caught with.

[wlkw]

Interestingly, purely theoretically, how would the AGS look like an anti-aircraft gun? Provided that a remote detonation is installed in the projectile. There is a lot of space in such a projectile for both explosives and electronics. The speed of the cartridge is small small, but the copters are not too fast and fly close by...
The advantage can be attributed to the small size of the installation, almost negligible weight (compared to a similar caliber gun), the return is also so small that you can put such a installation on almost any chassis.
Well and so on ....

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

A couple of years ago there were reports that such developments would be carried out. But there is no information about the results yet. AGS for such purposes is quite suitable for combating drones, especially in 40 mm caliber.

[certero]

Quote from alexoff

Fighter drones would be best against drones. A large quadcopter would catch up with all kinds of mavics and shoot at them with a net, which birds are caught with.

Most likely, we will see all this in the near future.

[savage3000]

Our answer to Cheetah is Tunguska and Shell. And we have had all this for a long time.

[Uncle_Misha]

After reading the article, I came to the conclusion that this product was made by the Polovtsians or Pechenegs, equipment from about their era. It will drive and shoot, how to shoot, with what accuracy, the question is. Who will issue target designation, as far as I know, of a low-altitude radar field, on the border with Ukraine, we are not. Its radar is low-power, and not a single station in the world is able to operate in continuous mode. In short, they blinded from what it was.

[Vincent price]

Where is derivation? What I love about domestic ROCs is that every 3-5 years they start developing another analog net and fall silent, and then again the same thing and silence ... and then again the same thing and so on ad infinitum

[YOUR.]

Now, if that answer had been made in the mid-70s of the last century, then, of course, yes ...

[89824024836]

If for 23 mm twin guns of a new anti-aircraft installation based on the BTR-82 to create shells-packets of soldered rods with weak impulse separation at distances of (500 -1000-1500) meters, then this will be a serious threat to drones and other aircraft and even cannon artillery shells .

[chingachguc]

Only a laser will help against all this petty trash.

[75 Sergey]

It seems to me that in order to fight drones, something multi-barreled is needed, with good accuracy of fire and with minimal overheating of 30 GSh-2-type barrels, with divided control.

[Igor K]

Or it is necessary to implement a remote detonation of ammunition.

[Igor K]

It crowns the air defense in the land version of the "TOR", in the naval version of the "Broadsword" in terms of efficiency.
The fact that ROSTEKH has pulled the blanket of the state defense order over itself is not good.
With regards to the comparison with the German "Gepard", that comparison is not entirely appropriate. remote detonation is not implemented in our product.
In any case, of course, it’s good that we are not standing still, but hatred in assessing the steps taken to modernize our valiant Armed Forces is not a very good thing, it has bitter consequences.

[Glagol1]

Useful thing. The caliber is good, but 30 mm is still a bit expensive. But remote detonation cannot be inserted here.

[Igor1915]

For me, 2 gsh 6-23 would be better.

[acetophenone]

It is not very clear how one anti-aircraft installation can be answered by another anti-aircraft installation?

[acetophenone]

Those who can learn lessons have already learned: in the struggle between throwing across areas and an accurate strike, an accurate strike wins. Nooo....
“...not everyone can see tomorrow today. Or rather, not only everyone can look, few people can do it.”