History repeats itself: Russian stickers on Chinese quadcopters

"Patriot-K30T" and "Patriot-K40-TL". Source: www.dzen.ru

"Patriots" made in USA

Let's simulate the situation. The country is trying to play import substitution and the development of sovereign technologies. The goal is to provide critical industries with components of our own production. The sanctions are unprecedented, the West prohibits the supply of everything. Foreign companies one by one are withdrawing from the game, closing enterprises, laying off staff. Russia in this storiesOf course everyone knew. It's no joke, one country received in three weeks such a bunch of sanctions that Iran had been given in portions for 40 years.

In general, the situation is nowhere worse, but not catastrophic for a state with considerable scientific and technological potential. It is only necessary to clearly formulate the state order, provide budget funding and, if possible, attract private investment. But most sanctions are not a problem for businessmen. There is this formula:

“There is no crime that capital will not commit for the sake of a profit of 300 percent.”

The quote is attributed to Thomas Dunning, a British publicist. In the full version, he rightly clarifies:

"At 50 percent profit, capital is positively ready to rack its brains; at 100 percent, it defies all human laws."

In this regard, the question is - why engage in import substitution and sovereign technologies, if in 2023 the volume of imports to Russia can surpass the record year of 2021?

It makes sense to stir and invent something, if you can just stick a Russian logo on a Chinese product. And for those who are especially wealthy, it is possible to get a “sanction” from unfriendly countries.

There are many examples. So, "Moskvich 3" is actually a purebred Chinese JAC JS4, and the fresh Lada X-Cross 5 is nothing but the FAW Bestune T77 also from China. With the total dominance of Chinese technology in the automotive industry, one can still somehow put up with it - after all, there is a shortage of new cars in the country. But when a similar situation develops with the supply of equipment to the fronts of the Northern Military District, it must be painful to beat. And it is desirable that the businessmen, together with their capital, remember until the end of their days.

But that was just a preview. And here is the story itself.

A rare exhibition of modern achievements of the national economy in Russia does without scandals. The St. Petersburg International Economic Forum was no exception.

Of particular interest, of course, was attracted by a technique that has a dual purpose. There should be at least something at this celebration of life to remind you of the bloody and heroic events of the NWO. The fact that the motherland remembers its fighters, for example, was indicated by the exposition with domestic quadrocopters Patriot-K30T and Patriot K40-TL. Laconic and functional machines with thermal imagers and high-resolution cameras.

Is it possible that in Russia they mastered the production of world-class equipment so quickly? Of course, only one of drones very reminiscent of the US-Chinese Autel EVO Max 4T 8K V2. More precisely, it does not resemble, but looks exactly the same. Only called "Patriot" and presented at the SPIEF at the stand of Bashkiria under the brand of the Moscow office "Astracom".

Two drones. One from the USA - the other from Bashkiria. Do not confuse. Source: msk1.ru

One of the editors of the Readovka portal at the exposition decided to clarify how the Patriot K40TL, allegedly assembled in Bashkortostan, differs from exactly the same, but Chinese. It turns out to be software for launching and for control. But that's not the point.

Autel Robotics is originally from the United States, although it is made in China. One can only guess what kind of defective algorithms the Americans can fill in the closed core of the quadrocopter control program. "Patriot K40TL" is positioned just for the needs of the NWO. In an interview, an unnamed product developer said:

“The problems of spoofing, coordinate substitution, jamming by means of electronic warfare have been solved here. We conducted over a dozen tests with jamming systems from major Russian manufacturers until the drone was jammed by none of them. Testing in law enforcement agencies will begin next week.”

At the same time, all the latest Autel models are already in the database protected from spoofing and other interference. Needless to say, the "Bashkir Autel" is several times more expensive than its overseas twin brother. If we recall the above words of Thomas Dunning, then a 100 and even 300 percent price increase is quite likely. By the way, you can buy Autel EVO Max in Russia for a little more than half a million rubles.

"Sibiryachok" for millionaires

The theme of the opportunity to make money not only on parallel exports, but also on the needs of a special operation, seems to be eternal. History repeats itself over and over again.

At the end of last year, the Dobrynya quadcopter thundered, assembled on the knee from Chinese knots and offered not at all at affordable prices. The Sibiryachok drone, which, according to war correspondents, costs about 2,5 million rubles, has become the successor of the traditions. According to other sources, no more than 1 million. For such money, a massive octocopter is presented, raising several mortar mines into the air in order to bring down on the heads of nationalists. Or a night hunter equipped with a thermal imager for enemy DRGs. In fact, this is a modest quadcopter, capable of lifting no more than 1 kg of payload and equipped with a 1080P Full HD camera. It’s a shame to transfer this even as a trophy to the enemy - they will laugh at all.

Complementing the picture is cheap 3D printing and rusty fasteners. We must pay tribute - the authors of "Sibiryachka" thoughtfully approached the problem and did not stick Russian labels on finished Chinese drones. They just bought components for 400-500 thousand rubles in China, assembled the craft and handed it over to the front at a price of 1 to 2,5 million. Despite the wave of criticism against the developers of the drone, none of the authors ever named the true cost of the product. Though that would be the best rebuttal.

"Siberian". Source: Telegram

At the same time, there are regular reports of the detention of large batches of drones from China, bought by private individuals for the NWO. Is this an attempt to protect domestic producers who openly warm their hands in front-line needs? In economics, this phenomenon is also called protectionism, but here it is completely criminal. Drones have become expendable at the front, they hardly last longer than ammunition. And barrier-free supplies of vital equipment have not been established from China. In a situation where fighters can buy four Mavic 3, they are brought one Russian craft.

The fuss of dishonest businessmen not only leaves our fighters face to face with enemy equipment, but once again pours water on the mill of Bandera propaganda. Military correspondents and simply concerned citizens are forced to publish revelations with the notorious "Dobrynya", "Patriots" and "Sibiryachki". Otherwise, don't get through. In Ukraine, such things are perceived as yet another “victory” and a sign of a lack of unity in Russian society. In general, this clearly adds motivation to our enemies.

President Putin recently called the informal council of military correspondents his forward reconnaissance detachment. It seems that the time has come to put another report on the table of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. This time about the inner counter.

Comments

[forty-eighth]

President Putin recently called the informal council of military correspondents his forward reconnaissance detachment.

Well, he called and called. There Yurka Sumskoy will report everything as it should. He himself is not averse to collecting for no one knows what and no one knows at what price.

[Civil]

shortage of new cars in the country

There is a suspicion that it is artificial.
1. All factories of manufacturers from unfriendly countries are closed. So it makes no sense to protect the market for local producers. AvtoVAZ itself drives on Chinese components.
2. But customs, certification and other "utilization" barriers have not been removed.
3. The average age of a passenger car in Russia is 15 years.
4. And officials in one Ministry out of habit expect their "schemes" to work.

[certero]

We have a capitalist country, so representatives of big business are in power.
You are talking about some kind of drones, although the gas pipeline running through Ukraine is still working and money is paid for pumping ...
A modern drone, despite its seeming simplicity, is the result of the most complex technological operations, and it is simply impossible to create it entirely in Russia now. Although we know how to make rockets of caliber, it is not surprising how.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: certero

We have a capitalist country, so representatives of big business are in power.
You are talking about some kind of drones, although the gas pipeline running through Ukraine is still working and money is paid for pumping ...

Nicholas II got burned, among other things, on a benevolent attitude towards such hucksters: "They don't steal." Although the social situation of 1917 and 2023 is certainly not comparable, the craving for justice in the Russian people cannot be eradicated ...
In general, the purchase is normal, if we have our own production, of course, because we will buy less, the enemy will buy more. There is enough crude oil, thank God.

[Alf]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Nicholas II got burned, including on a benevolent attitude towards such hucksters: "They don't steal."

[Ilgizl]

And if you yourself and your friends have a profit from this, then in general everything is wonderful.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

A modern drone, despite its seeming simplicity, is the result of the most complex technological operations, and it is simply impossible to create it entirely in Russia now.

The point is not whether we can or we cannot, but the fact that Chinese drones are sold on the domestic market of this country to 1,5 billion consumers and around the world, where this production pays off and is competitive, our domestic market is smaller, therefore, such investments in drones just as in electronics they will not pay off, we will always lose in revenue and profitability to China and the West. That's why they're bypassing us.

The only way out is to create special favorable conditions for such a business with zero taxation and subsidies from the federal budget, so that we would somehow have this production at least to provide for the army and other state organizations.

And in my opinion, our mistake is that, for example, we want to immediately make a competitor to the iPhone, but we need to make a competitor for a middle-class smartphone, as well as in everything else.

[AA17]

The only way out is to create special favorable conditions for such a business with zero taxation and subsidies from the federal budget, ...

And again create greenhouse conditions for business?
Or maybe you just need to make them work and invest in the development of production for the sake of Victory. But what power can do it? (Unless, under certain conditions, the Chief Conductor and his musicians can do this.)
There, we have a lot of people who want to start a new privatization and develop their private initiative, according to the Head of the Central Bank:

"I believe that, of course, it is necessary to privatize, and we have something to privatize without prejudice to strategic interests. We have the opportunity to do this, and this is not only a question of budget revenues, but a question of developing private initiative,"
More details: https://www.m24.ru/news/ehkonomika/15062023/588168?utm_source=CopyBuf

And so again it turns out: To whom is the war (for most of the population of Russia - mobilization and a contract for military service), and To whom is the Mother dear (for business - preferential conditions for doing business in the WTO and fabulous profits).
This is an objective reality in the current conditions, because the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie "rules" in Russia and it must protect the interests of the ruling class. Which she does very well for her bourgeois, since the bourgeois - "they do not abandon their own."

[dnestr74]

If you pay taxes normally, then 40 percent of the profit goes to them, what kind of development is there and so on ...

[VPK-65]

Quote: AA17

Or maybe you just need to make them work and invest in the development of production for the sake of Victory. But what power can do it?

"to force to work" can only worker physical labor (and even then not always).
Force an employee to work mental labor will not work.
Do you know what an "irregular working day" is, for example? Engineer mistakenly thinks it's a privilege, a freebie (I'm late, oh well). But it’s not, in fact, this is when the design engineer CANNOT TURN OFF THE HEAD (there is no such toggle switch) and continues to mentally work on creating an aircraft on weekends and holidays ... but what’s the weekend, sometimes you can’t fall asleep at night - in some kind of head the node of the future design is spinning and only in the morning comes the decision.
Is it possible to force a person to work like that under duress? No. Where did we get our own aircraft industry and so on? Look at the biography of all aircraft designers - there were only ENTHUSIASTS, fans started working in sheds. The state only found them and helped them, financed them, and so on.
Was it possible to put an APPOINTER? Like: here is my godfather, brother, matchmaker, etc. tomorrow he will stand behind the drawing board and design. Agree this is nonsense, nepotism does not work here.
PS in fact, there have never been many such fanatics - enthusiasts with the necessary IQ level, so there were simply not enough of them for all industries. The most necessary ones were chosen - aircraft building, rocket science, a nuclear program, etc.
Why didn't they get into the auto industry? they considered that this time was not critical, and their loafers (native blood) all the same had to be attached somewhere. So the consequences of the auto industry are still going on ...
Z.Y. How, the desire to FORCE to work is not lost? Can you think of other methods? In addition to the whip, at all times there was also a gingerbread ...

[Guran33 Sergey]

That's when godfather, brothers-in-arms, and among Jews relatively Russian relatives are very bizarre, Soviet research institutes began to rot .. Idea generators who went upstairs by Stalin's "elevators" by the eighties were old men, with rare exceptions, they left behind offices of relatives where "strangers will take root" did not give

[bk0010]

Quote: AA17

Or maybe you just need to make them work and invest in the development of production for the sake of Victory.

And if you are now sent to the mines to work hard for rations for the sake of Victory? Patriotism at the expense of others does not cause respect.

[AA17]

Dear bk0010

And here is the mine and why for rations???
Do not distort.
I'm slacking off like that.

[Guran33 Sergey]

He simply confuses "rations with rations, the norm of food s \ k" Rations are much higher than the salary itself for a working person, put him approximately in the "middle class". For today's rations, this is something like gruel and rolton, in fact, rations - from cuts of good fabric for clothes - to caviar

[TheWatcher]

Quite right, for normal competition in the market, we simply do not have enough people - moreover, a solvent population. And in order to organize production, we cannot do without serious preferential terms.

[Alf]

Quote from The Watcher

for normal competition in the market, we simply do not have enough people - moreover, a solvent population.

Absolutely right. The only question is, who allowed SUCH a decrease in the solvency of the population? Who thinks 17000 is middle class?

[aba]

That's why they're bypassing us.
Not only they bypass us, but everyone who has production. And our country has become buy-pass, after the government of the new Russia loudly declared what we cannot do, we will buy in the West. And under this cry, they began to destroy any production in the country, Moskvich, ZIL and bearing plants have already been demolished in this millennium. And yes, import substitution has been going on for the ninth year, and we heard about cheap Chinese chips on Russian space rockets after the 14th year.

[Taimen]

Some kind of import substitution, some kind of drones. scenario.

[Trapp1st]

They can't wait for the negotiations to take place.

Some pray for negotiations, others for the war to go on forever. Both of them have an exclusively financial interest.

[AA17]

Dear VPK-65.
I agree with you about the design engineers. My statement "make it work" was about all kinds of bloggers, coaches, various experts, etc.

[VPK-65]

Quote: AA17

My statement "make it work" was about all kinds of bloggers, coaches, various experts, etc.

Alas, most of them did not even have a choice (of a profession). Now they are taught only for what is not in demand at all and is not employed upon graduation (the list of additional professions was recently announced: diamond cutter, diamond appraiser, etc.)
My nephew wanted to follow in my footsteps (start with optics), and there only the "photographer" profession is taught. Who needs a job as a photographer when everyone has a smartphone? Well, he finished this nonsense (to finish his education), and then ... he went to deliver pizza. Where else would he be?
The girl walks around the workshop in the form of a student ... of a mining institute (the owner of a copper mountain), and aims to become a metalworking master. What to do with it x.z. Previously, they had a direct road to the taiga, but now, alas.
A new "craftswoman" comes to work (the personnel department took it from the street). I ask who are you? I worked as a foreman at a confectionery factory, they made "Squirrel" sweets ... Why do I need a squirrel ??? (after a couple of leading questions, it turned out that she understands the squirrel like I understand oranges). But she has a diploma - "higher", but there is no sense in it. It’s easier for me to put an ordinary hard worker instead of her (any) and at the same time send him to an evening college. And if then he also graduates in absentia from the institute - that's the new director. We need specialized training, to give young people the opportunity for career growth (turn on social lifts). At the same time, they don’t even need to be forced - they themselves will reach out if the money is not spent on idlers, but good wages are offered to young people, etc. Otherwise, alas, it will not work.

[AA17]

..and then... went to deliver pizza. Where else is he?...

I do not agree with you. There are many places to get a job. There would be a desire. In that life, I worked as a design engineer in the serial design department. Three years ago I retired, now I work as an electrician. We carry out the installation of "weak". A lot of work. As soon as we have time to hand over the object, there are already other objects in the queue. In parallel, electricians and plumbers work with us, the situation is similar. Not enough workers. Both with us and with electricians and plumbers, the age of workers is mostly 40+. Most of us are 60+. No youth. In our region, almost all industrial enterprises recruit people for working specialties, in many specialties they recruit as apprentices. So there is work and there is a lot of it, but young people do not really want to work in blue-collar jobs.

[VPK-65]

Quote: AA17

In our region almost all industrial enterprises recruit people for working specialties, in many specialties they recruit as apprentices.

I'll try to guess: your region is located behind the Ural ridge?
PS if "YES", then I'm aware, they themselves went there on business trips to open a new enterprise (commissioning, technologies, etc. for serial release).
Z.Y. and let the nephew carry the pizza, because he is still a slob, I’m not going to promote him - the matter is more important than family ties.

[AA17]

Didn't guess. Chuvash Republic.

[VPK-65]

I understand that recently your region (in the media) has become more heard, but I have not been there, although distant relatives live in Cheboksary ...

[bk316]

about your region (in the media)

And in Nizhny, they recruit personnel in exactly the same way in the suburbs and in Tver.

Now they are taught only for what is not in demand at all and they are not employed at the end

Where is it? What are you talking about?

[Jager]

And why ruin your health at the machine, if you can deliver pizza for the same salary.

[Lech from Android.]

They simply bought components for 400-500 thousand rubles in China, assembled the crafts and handed them over to the front at a price of 1 to 2,5 million rubles.

Three hundred percent gain and it turned out ... robust.
Awww FSB, where are the prosecutor's office... they shod the state for a tidy sum... they began to live richly.
It reminds of the story of Aleksashka Menshikov, when he put caftans with rotten cloth into the Petrovsky troops ... history repeats itself again, it taught our leadership nothing ... so again our state will have to go through old sores.
Lord, when will this all end?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Three hundred percent gain and it turned out ... robust.

Navar is when you bought and sold, and in this case we are talking about small-scale production of software for UAVs.

The people who organized this need to pay their programmers and other subcontractors, buy basic UAV models in order to install their software on them.

If these Patriots really work better in the face of enemy EW countermeasures, then they are certainly worth the money, even if they are 3-4 times more expensive than the base counterpart.

What do you think is better, a UAV that, in the presence of electronic warfare, will immediately be lost, or the same UAV, but 4 times more expensive while allowing you to conduct reconnaissance in the conditions of the enemy’s electronic warfare?

Well, of course the second.

I say again, if the Patriot really manages to work in the conditions of the enemy’s electronic warfare, then he is worth his money, and the people who created him also receive awards from the state.

Or do you really think that right now someone should take and invest billions and in a month or six months build a plant that makes UAVs no worse and cheaper than the Chinese or Americans and still completely from Russian components?!

This is impossible!!! And drones are needed yesterday and are no longer just drones, but drones capable of conducting reconnaissance and destroying the enemy in the face of opposition from him.

[Ivan staryi]

If I'm not mistaken, now the allowable rate of return in accordance with the law is 25% (pp1465). The same legislation clearly regulates the composition of documents confirming and justifying the cost. I have no doubt that this time the information on Astrakom will be analyzed by the competent authorities with all due diligence. They will figure out who deserves what ...

[Taimen]

I am tormented by vague doubts. Nobody is responsible for anything. What organs are there.

[Alf]

Quote: Ivan staryi

They will figure out who deserves what ...

Do you live in Russia or where? Our hucksters have learned to justify the triple mark-up perfectly.

[Ivan staryi]

Yes, we have learned. And not yesterday. But they are also held accountable for this. If you have not heard about it, it does not mean that there are no such facts.

[Alf]

Quote: Ivan staryi

If you have not heard about it, it does not mean that there are no such facts.

As there are no landing results. The maximum is a transfer to another chair. Or quietly hush up.

[Jcvai]

You're missing a couple of items:
1. In the drone mentioned in the article, there is an initial protection against electronic warfare, laid down even before localization by the manufacturer. And against our electronic warfare. And "tests" were also carried out with ours. Accordingly, we are talking about how it will behave in the face of opposition from enemy systems, plus the remaining bookmarks that will allow both to identify positions and to take control.
Accordingly, there are no guarantees. So maybe for the same money it is better to have 4 with management in English instead of one exactly the same with a Russian-language menu?
2. For two million, a conditional team of 5 good programmers will write an open code for the same “raspberry” with a flying body kit, whose empty cost will be 100 thousand. That's just the budget for these 2 lyamas does not "fight" with the costs of the boss, without whom "developers can't even manage the hello world", for receivers for whom "new houses and cars are more important than what is happening on the front line"

Everything is conditional, but ...

[dnestr74]

They think, oh, what a fat, but how much taxes should be paid, and so on, they are used to paying 13 percent of the minimum wage to the state and everyone thinks so.

[Olegi1]

and in this case we are talking about small-scale production of software for UAVs

It seems, judging by the comments, most of the forum participants do not understand that the cost of developing software for a drone can greatly exceed the cost of the hardware itself. That is, you can buy a piece of hardware in China conditionally for $100 and install software on it that allows this piece of hardware to perform tasks in electronic warfare conditions, etc. And the cost of developing such software may well amount to tens, if not hundreds of man-years and the corresponding amounts in rubles, which the manufacturer needs to somehow "recapture". So, IMHO, not everything is so simple.

[Fisher]

Blessed are those who believe. The big question is whether anything was put there

[Jcvai]

Let's estimate.
If you do not take kickbacks and related corruption, a simple copy-pasteur from a huge open source database will cost 50-80 thousand a month, a good specialist 150-200k, an expert for key communications with the military-industrial complex / MO 300-500k. And, if there is a clear realistic TOR, in a month you can go for testing.
What can I say: there are enough freelancers on the network who, for a couple of thousand rubles, will give out the finished result of microcontroller firmware within 1000 lines of code.
In general, you are obviously confusing the development of, say, an operating system that should work without failures on hundreds of thousands of different configurations, and development for a specific hardware with clearly limited input and output parameters. So "the cost of software development for a drone can greatly exceed the cost of the hardware itself" is relevant only if you write your own individual code for each drone. And if the code written in 3 months with a budget of 10k is put on 50k drones...
But what can I say, if our cadets with BIUS and MOASU for several months solo implemented Lumberjack-style emulations on a PC.
So everything is just the same, clearly. We need only resources for implementation and competent specialists instead of resources for management and maintenance with family friends!

[bk316]

if not hundreds of man-years

You turned it down. Man-years - yes, man-century is not even close.

[Stas157]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Three hundred percent gain and it turned out ... robust.

And this is in wartime!

[bk0010]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Three hundred percent gain and it turned out ... robust.

Well, don't buy... Take Chinese.

[Krilion]

until Aurora "shoots again, hoping for something good in Russia is simply ridiculous ... apparently, law enforcement officers, FSB officers and others, led by the tsar (who, like, knows everything), don't give a damn about the situation .. never I believe that these structures are not aware of the impudent deriban of the budget ...

[Hagakure]

We, as a state, will not survive another revolution like 17.

[Garris199]

Yes, we can not survive, without any revolutions. All that is needed is to lose this war, to which our "leadership" is leading everything. In such difficult conditions, "everyone" is engaged in their favorite business - making super profits. Only now many new articles for deriban have been added, such as the production of nameplates for UAVs and so on.

[mag nit]

Chubais left, but his work lives on. He also invented Chinese energy-saving light bulbs.

[Andrey Moskvin]

How are things in Russia?
They steal ...
Nothing has changed over the centuries.

[Krilion]

the problem is not even that they steal, but that this theft of officials has a devastating effect on the morale of the fighters and the civilian population .. people begin to wonder why they go to death if officials and commerce are stuffing their pockets .. first they ask themselves such questions, and then refuse to go to war ..

[Mazunga]

otherwise it was not clear right away that war is always very profitable))) though not everyone is far from everyone

[KCA]

All over the world, there is such a name as an OEM - original equipment manufacturer, this is the one who actually produces, and another company buys products and sculpts its nameplates and name, you are not confused by HP printers that Canon makes, Xerox printers that Samsung, millions examples, I don’t know if there is now somewhere on the Internet, but before there was a database in which real manufacturers of brands were indicated, from electronics to cars and other equipment

[Ivan staryi]

Only you cite as an example absolutely "market" goods, the prices of which are regulated by the volume of demand, supply and competition between manufacturers. When it comes to government orders, there is often no competition, and the rationale for pricing is regulated. With all the associated risks.

[Stas157]

Quote: KCA

All over the world so, there is such a name as OEM

So are you for real import substitution or for re-gluing nameplates? If the Americans (whom you look up to) use OEM, then they are not threatened with sanctions!

[KCA]

So these are all private initiatives, they want to - let them supply their drones to the SVO for free, and the Ministry of Defense buys Outposts, Lancets, Orlans, Orions and a few more, everyone else develops and simply advertises their developments, well, or re-glue the nameplates

[PavelT]

It gets even tougher.
My brother was on a business trip in Austria at the Fischer factory, where alpine skiing is made. Alpine skiing, damn it, without any electronics and software! There were two conveyor lines. On one they produced a model of alpine skis from this company Fischer (which is logical), and on the second - ... alpine skis from Atomic, on which Atomic was beautifully written !!! In response to shock and questions like "How do you make products for your competitor?!?!" the practical Austrians replied indifferently:
“Well, this is a profitable order: Atomic paid for the entire batch of its skis in advance, and we need to not only release our skis, but also push them to the market, find a buyer, supply large batches to him on credit or in installments, send, then wait for payment .. ."

[Sith]

Quote: KCA

All over the world, there is such a name as an OEM - original equipment manufacturer, this is the one who actually produces, and another company buys products and sculpts its nameplates and name, you are not confused by HP printers that Canon makes, Xerox printers that Samsung, millions examples, I don’t know if there is now somewhere on the Internet, but before there was a database in which real manufacturers of brands were indicated, from electronics to cars and other equipment

And most importantly, no one knows the real OEM selling price =)
That is, how much the nameplate stickers have screwed up ... but there are also further "outbids" in the food chain already with him
How many times does the price of a printer change, made by low-paid representatives of the country where it was produced and the final one for the consumer, and how fair is this =)

[kostik1301]

Our internal control is headed by these same people at the top .... nothing personal, just business ......

[parusnik]

So, "Moskvich 3" is actually a purebred Chinese JAC JS4

Not purebred, produced under license from a German automobile concern, in connection with this, China cannot launch direct production, sanctions. This also applies to other "Chinese" goods. Many hope that Chinese comrades will come and build us advanced "Chinese" production. Yeah That's why components are purchased in China, they are assembled from us. I remember that in the "fat" years, cheers-patriots wrote in VO: that everything Russian, even American Fords, is produced in Russia.

[Mazunga]

in fact, there is a very funny video about Sibiryachok on YouTube, everything is like we love the address of the company, and there is a rusty garage in the company as many as two people work, etc.

[Stas157]

. They simply bought components for 400-500 thousand rubles in China, assembled the crafts and handed them over to the front at a price of 1 to 2,5 million rubles.

And take our "domestic" computer with the Taiwanese Baikal processor! Its performance is at the level of the 5rd-3th generation Intel Core i4 processor. That is, none. Such computers are already being thrown into the trash. But they ask for a system unit with Baikal from 99,5 thousand rubles! A year ago, last summer, I assembled a system unit based on the twelfth generation Intel Core i5 12400. It cost me 26 thousand - about four times cheaper than the "domestic" crafts, for which the best place is in a landfill.

[bk0010]

Quote: Stas157

But they ask for a system unit with Baikal from 99,5 thousand rubles!

Would understand what! Just imagine: you are the chief designer, you have recorded the absence of imported components in the TOR. And what will you do? And here there is a paper that this is a domestic product. Yes, made in Taiwan, but the paper is there, the work continues. And the program can be optimized.

[Jcvai]

1. i5 3 generations is enough for almost any work tasks "for the eyes" (we do not take into account supercomputers, quantum and other teraflop generation arrays)
2. If you need for your home - no problem, what to put from the OEM assembled in China: Baikal or Intel. If it is required to avoid bookmarks as much as possible, then they are limited to their assemblies controlled by special offices, i.e. no longer just Baikal, but, say, from the Kaliningrad line.
3. In this case (assemblies of Baikal and Intel in Taiwan), the price tag rests on production volumes. If the first had orders comparable to Intel, the price would also be comparable. Plus, although in fact the assembly is all imports, the probability of "someone else's cunning bookmarks" at Baikal is much lower, which also plays a role.
Even Specter and Meltdown, which have been sensational in recent years, will not take off on our Taiwanese assembly.

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Or do you really think that right now someone should take and invest billions and in a month or six months build a plant that makes UAVs no worse and cheaper than the Chinese or Americans and still completely from Russian components?!

No, of course I don't think so.
For good, these plants should have been built 10 years ago from 2014 ... when it became clear that Ukraine would become a battering ram against Russia ... but time was lost ineptly.
Now we are reaping the fruits of the inability to think strategically one step ahead of our enemy represented by NATO and the United States.
Everyone hoped that the Minsk agreements would resolve all problems ... they didn’t resolve them ... it only got worse.

[rocket757]

History repeats itself: Russian stickers on Chinese quadcopters

. Inexplicable / inexplicable phenomenon!
Business seeks to earn on what is in demand, it is necessary right now by any means ...
How to evaluate it???
Yes, it can be evaluated in different ways, from different angles, according to different criteria.
To me, as a Soviet person, FOR THE POWER it's a shame!!! But, at this time, in the current situation, nothing else is visible, so it remains only to swear and .... and nothing more, because changes in the situation itself, for the better, by itself, for nothing, will not happen, but to push in the worst side, no no... now is not the time!!!

[Vadim S]

So there is no unity in society, such a naive discovery! Although I am constantly minus pennies here, I continue to say that all these "should, must, must" will not happen, and this will be confirmation of this, and the author proves it again! It was already about this, and they shouted what was needed, what was necessary, urgently, and what has changed? Nothing! And nothing will change, and who wants to believe in the best, well, I feel sorry for you if you still don’t understand what kind of mentality surrounds us.

[APASUS]

To start the discussion, it is worth explaining that only their own can sell something to the state. There are all signs of a corruption component, but so far only talk in the media

[kor1vet1974]

History repeats itself: Russian stickers on Chinese quadcopters

I've never done this before and here we go again

[Buscot]

Merchants have no homeland! They will let the country go under the hammer. And all these offices are "successful" businessmen and firms of officials' children, as practice shows, and even from the Moscow Region. So there is no need to look for traitors together with their family in power.

[Alexey Zezin]

I am sure that Putin knows how import substitution is carried out, but he is forced to turn a blind eye to it. There is no sufficient element base in Russia, so there is only one way out - to buy from China. Another question is whether everything is being done to get out of this situation. I see that it is not.

[Alexey Zezin]

In general, there is nothing to be surprised at because Russia does not produce much on its own, it is easier to buy and resell at a higher price. A neo-colonial economy has been created, we have resources for our products. consumer generation. Glory to Putin!

[Pavel57]

During the war, you need to decide what is more important checkers or go.

[TwilightElf]

our trading is everything. as they said there .. Entrepreneurship IS NOT about CREATIVE labor .. it’s about buying for 100 rubles - selling for 300 rubles) you live on these 2 percent))

[Alexey RA]

Needless to say, the "Bashkir Autel" is several times more expensive than its overseas twin brother. If we recall the above words of Thomas Dunning, then a 100 and even 300 percent price increase is quite likely.

What prices were compared? It's just from personal experience that the net cost of a product doubling during the journey from the manufacturer to the supplier's warehouse is the norm. Taxes, customs clearance, transport, insurance, etc. And if you need Russian certificates of conformity for the product as a whole and individual components ...

[certero]

Quote: Olegi1

That is, you can buy a piece of hardware in China conditionally for $100 and install software on it that allows this piece of hardware to perform tasks in electronic warfare conditions, etc. And the cost of developing such software may well be tens, if not hundreds of man-years and

Please don't post bullshit.
There are no 100 year old drone programming challenges. The guys at the front reflash ready-made movies so that they do not use GPS. And no 100 years of programming were needed for this.
But about programming against reb, how is it at all? If you have a control channel crushed, then you need a hardware solution.

[Jcvai]

programming vs reb

I suppose we are talking about cryptography, floating frequency, multi-channel with error correction, etc.
Those. from modes of autonomous action of positioning on the built-in cartography to correct processing of signals in conditions of strong interference. But, as they pointed out, this does not require hundreds of years: our military-industrial complex already has developments in cartography (used by aviation and missiles), in cryptography and error correction - a lot of open source codes, etc.

[Alexander]

And what a showdown after the end of hostilities! And if now it's secret!

[Zaurbek]

On the one hand, who makes copters besides China? The rest are made from Chinese parts with varying degrees of localization. And the next question is, which country can make a lot of them? China again.
On the other hand, it is time for us to create "sharashki" in such areas as communications and small UAVs

[Fangaro]

There are many examples. So, "Moskvich 3" is actually a purebred Chinese JAC JS4, and the fresh Lada X-Cross 5 is nothing but the FAW Bestune T77 also from China. With the total dominance of Chinese technology in the automotive industry, one can still somehow put up with it - after all, there is a shortage of new cars in the country. But when a similar situation develops with the supply of equipment to the fronts of the Northern Military District, it must be painful to beat. And it is desirable that the businessmen, together with their capital, remember until the end of their days.

Maybe not businessmen should be beaten painfully? The dealers took the money from somewhere, signed contracts, and at their own peril and risk they are taking the sanction to Russia.
Maybe you need to beat the Ministries and Departments, the organizers of the Olympic Tank Games, the reporters of 72 percent of modern weapons? And those who nodded favorably with the head of consent?
How are private traders involved in deliveries to the fronts (which fronts ??? Special operation! Are you against the President of the Russian Federation ???)?
Do not those drones deliver? So there are many Ministries. Why are the Ministers not itching? Not enough certification? There was enough certification for partial mobilization, but 28 percent is not enough for the supply of modern ones.

[Fangaro]

President Putin recently called the informal council of military correspondents his forward reconnaissance detachment. It seems that the time has come to put another report on the table of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. This time about the inner counter.

Contra sometimes happens to be such that it hides behind authorship on VO, but in fact it brings more harm with its word than all the arsonists caught in six months. Such news is enough for commentators to start civil strife. And who benefits from it? To such an author (the more comments, the greater the reward) and to those who cause confusion.

[Vasya Vasiliev_2]

Are you ready to wait for years until we create our own and launch production? all that remains is to buy everything in China, we will study, improve and create our own

[Alf]

Quote: Vasya Vasiliev_2

all that remains is to buy everything in China, we will study, improve and create our own

Well, how did it turn out to create a lot of your own over these YEARS?

[Svetlana Kuznetsova]

As a rule, theft is hidden behind any foreign words (rebranding), and in wartime, given the amount of profit, outright betrayal.

[Anatoly Sokolov]

Spent a couple of minutes researching the issue.
Astracon sells Autel drones. They have a section on their site with a whole line for sale.
https://www.astracom.ru/katalog-oborudovaniya/bpla.html
Also, this company is professionally engaged in communication. So they have all the competencies and opportunities to refine this drone. For example, to "solve the problems of spoofing, coordinate substitution, jamming by means of electronic warfare"
So, I did not see anything criminal in the company's proposal. Apparently, according to military correspondents and other bloggers, the company had to sit down from scratch and develop a drone. Moreover, so that it is not inferior in price and quality to Chinese / American ones.
"Siberian" also did not appear out of nowhere. As I understand it, it is supplied by Gaskar Group, they are engaged in construction and offered, among other things, photography services
https://gaskar.group/ru/drones
https://ru.coex.tech/pelican

In short, it has nothing to do with re-gluing nameplates. It's just that companies that were already involved in drones made their modifications and offered them to the troops. And military correspondents, bloggers and other hysterics ran to hysteria and spread gossip about corruption and cuts

[Jcvai]

It's about something completely different: why drones for 300k after flashing start to cost 2kk - that's the question. Okay, we spent 10kk on RD, but for a batch of 10kk of flashed drones, these costs will increase the cost of each drone by only a couple of thousand rubles (1k from RD, plus firmware).
Those. one gets the impression that either they work with each drone individually, without crossing and inheriting, each time they take a new specialist and force them to figure it out from scratch in an isolated room, or in the conditions of development it is necessary to live 5 stars near the Kremlin with daily changing strippers from elite brothels.

[Sibiryak70region]

And how will they be punished? Will they threaten with a finger again 100500 times? Until they start shooting these pests and deceivers, nothing will change.

[handwriting]

You are strange people, then call TU-4 B-29 and so on, so on. Gray schemes, copyright and outright theft, justified means during hostilities. You won’t jump out of your pants right away, let them do it if we didn’t have such industries at all. We changed the software and this is the main thing, then we will tighten the rest. And soon God will punish the hucksters, or maybe someone else ...

[Alf]

Quote: Handwriting

You people are strange, then call TU-4 B-29 and so on, so on. Gray schemes, copyright and outright theft, justified means during hostilities.

Yes, they copied. But now, having copied the moment, they began to produce at OUR factories, from OUR spare parts. And they began to develop the copied. And now it's a little different. The foreigners built a plant, installed their own machines, brought their own model, recruited our workers, and that's it. No one is going to teach development.

Quote: Handwriting

if we did not have such industries at all.

There were these industries, there were. But where have they gone over the past 23 years, you need to ask someone. Although everything is clear, Lenin, the Pechenegs and the Polovtsy are to blame ...
How many years did KAMAZ produce trucks with German automatic transmissions? And as Bosch left, the plant immediately got up. Why didn't they develop their own? Or Bosch banned? What has changed now? KAMAZ switched to Chinese automatic transmissions, no one is going to invent and build their own.

[acetophenone]

President Putin recently called the informal council of military correspondents his forward reconnaissance detachment. It seems that the time has come to put another report on the table of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. This time about the inner counter.

Here comes the barin
The master will judge us! ©
What is this? Dementia? Subtle trolling? Riot on your knees? How, in general, is it possible to write such a thing?

[acetophenone]

Quote: Sibiryak70region

And how will they be punished? Will they threaten with a finger again 100500 times? Until they start shooting these pests and deceivers, nothing will change.

No one will shoot anyone until you, yes, yes, personally, you shoot someone. I tell you exactly, until you do this, no one will do anything. You are the first, yes!

[tank64rus]

It is necessary to set the task of creating an industrial sector for the production of drones. And for those who, together with officials, want to cash in, SMERSH is needed. There is no other way out. Comrade Stalin during the war once set the task of doubling the production of tanks. I asked the people's commissars who can. One said I. Surprisingly, he did.

[rotkiv04]

Yes, what kind of import substitution is there, drones, but only soldiers on the front line need them, and Putin is shaking pieces of paper with his next ingenious contract, he was ready to give everything with giblets, if only they would give him the opportunity to sell gas and oil again, and show off himself in the stands of all sorts of summits

[Alexander Rasmukhambetov]

In general, some kind of mess is everywhere and there is no way out of this mess, it’s sad for a country with such potential and it’s not the people who create this mess, but the guys who rule the country.

[Zoer]

And under this government, which protects the beneficiaries of the collapse of the USSR, it simply cannot be otherwise.

[the same doctor]

And what, should we cleanly refuse Chinese components? In a war, you need to take weapons from where you can.
.
If you don’t like Chinese toys so much, then buy at the expense of the budget and supply machines and raw materials to manufacturers of quadrocopters. Waiting for them to accumulate capital by market methods is too long. Give them equipment in exchange for a reasonable price and a sufficient number of UAVs.
Wagner, on the other hand, was given tanks and other equipment, they did not wait for him to accumulate money to buy them. Machine tools for factories - the same tanks for the front.
.
In general, the article is harmful and prepares public opinion for the dekulakization of businessmen who have gained fat by officials. Well, who will do something to you in Russia in such conditions?

[matsur]

And who is the head of Bashkiria now? There is usually nothing done without the knowledge of the chief