Such an unpatriotic "Dagger"

66
Such an unpatriotic "Dagger"

It's probably worth starting with the "Dagger". How many keyboards have been smashed in the brutal Internet battles, figuring out who wins: "Patriot" "Dagger" or "Dagger" "Patriot"? Indeed, it somehow turned out chaotically. Either the “Patriots” knocked out all the “Daggers”, or the “Dagger” knocked out the “Patriot”, but they didn’t knock out quite to death, and so on.

Of course, it was interesting for all three parties to show and prove that this is it, the very best weapon, capable of protecting (in the case of Ukraine and the United States) from any misfortune, or vice versa, a weapon capable of blowing to dust (Russia) the most advanced defensive weapons. Because spears (keys) broke hundreds.



It can be said that a military draw was recorded: the parties remained unconvinced, because the evidence was somehow not very good for both. Ours did not show the destroyed Patriot installation (expectedly), the Ukrainians did not show the (unexpectedly) damaged "Dagger".

In their place, I would show, at least in order to be seen, here is a slightly damaged launcher, and not the five you seem to have destroyed.

It’s not worth figuring out where the truth is, if the “Dagger” (and this is still an “Iskander”, a very accurate thing, unlike others) flew “at the call” of the “Patriot”, then there will be nothing to repair there. But talking about the destruction of five at once (given that only four launchers are included in the battery) is too much. But DIMK cannot afford such a thing.

Dear readers, have you, of course, noticed how the most natural arms race is taking place before our eyes? We started with the supply of old Soviet T-72s of the first models, ended with Leopards and Challengers of not the oldest modifications. Further? Further "Abrams", apparently.

We are simply silent about artillery, from the old "Carnations" and "Acacias" they came to the PzH 2000 and so on. And in our case, speaking of air defense, they brought "Stingers", finished with "Patriots". What's next?


And this is a question, as it is, from the heart.

And at this moment I (as usual already) drag everyone to historical excursion. Let's just take a quick look at the evolution of American air defense systems in particular and air defense systems in general.

Even during the Second World War, the Americans worked very hard in terms of developing air defense systems and succeeded in this. Especially in matters of saturation with the trunks of their ships. It's a matter of a different category, but the Soviet cruisers could envy the American destroyers, which surpassed them in the number and quality of air defense guns just effortlessly. In general, in the ability to cram the maximum number of anti-aircraft guns into a limited number of square meters of a ship, the Americans did not know their equals. The Japanese taught them very well at the beginning of the war.

And at the same time, having removed the planes from the catapults of the same cruisers, the Americans placed them literally on everything that had sufficient length for takeoff and landing.


And then they caught the zen: an aircraft carrier is an airfield that can be placed on the enemy’s route, no matter sea or air, and give the adversary a very warm welcome at a safe distance from their important objects.

And, since it worked as it should, the role of an aircraft capable of solving all problems was elevated to an absolute in the States. And this absolute was implemented both on offshore platforms of the "aircraft carrier" type as a distant line of defense, and on land airfields as a near line.


What about air defense? And so - almost nothing, according to the residual principle! In fact, we look at the map and understand that we should not expect air threats from Canada, this is nothing more than another state of America, from the south, Mexico and the Central American region are also not particularly scary in this regard.

Because air defense seems to have even developed, but really so that it was just in case. Every case, of course, began with the development of intercontinental ballistic missiles in the USSR, which aircraft clearly could not cope with, which led to the emergence of the NORAD system, which still operates in a reduced form.

Naturally, NORAD, that conventional air defense, which in the United States was included in the Ground Forces, consisted of anti-aircraft systems. We will not consider those marvels of engineering that were invented for NORAD here, since they were very exotic and did not last long, but let's go through the usual complexes.

MIM-3 Nike-Ajax. 1953-1958 years.


This is the first American air defense system (and the first mass air defense system in the world), which was produced simply in frightening quantities: more than 200 batteries covered the United States, and the total number of launchers exceeded one thousand.

The complex was good, but not without flaws. Two radars supplied data to the computer, which processed them and issued commands to the rocket over the air. The counting device calculated the meeting point where it sent the rocket and at this point it undermined the rocket warhead. Homing, of course, did not exist in those days. For a successful attack, the missile usually rose above the target, and then began to descend to the calculated interception point.

A unique feature of the MIM-3 Nike-Ajax was the presence of three high-explosive fragmentation warheads. The first, weighing 5,44 kg, was located in the bow section, the second, 81,2 kg, in the middle section, and the third, 55,3 kg, in the tail section.

The idea was implemented, according to which the stepwise detonation of three warheads would create a huge cloud of fragments, which would be almost impossible to overcome. How effective this solution was, there is no data, but in the future, American designers preferred to abandon such a scheme.

The range of the complex was about 48 kilometers. The missile could hit a target at an altitude of up to 21 meters, while moving at a speed of Mach 300.


The technical disadvantage of the complex was the presence of only one missile control channel. That is, the launch of four missiles at once was simply impossible, and since there was no communication between the batteries, there was no system for canceling escort, which is why several launchers could easily shoot at one target. But this is 1954, what could be demanded from the technology of that time?

Although I note that the Soviet S-25 Berkut looked like a masterpiece against the background of the MIM-3 Nike-Ajax, having both multi-channel control and a radar fuse. In fact, the S-25 air defense system can be called the next generation complex, and only the complexity and huge cost were its minuses. And the Nike-Ajax was very cheap, which is why it was built in such a series that one can envy.

But even the Americans themselves understood that Ajax was not a cake, and therefore they immediately began working on a replacement.

MIM-14 Nike-Hercules. 1958-1989 years


It should be the development of Ajax, work on the bugs, but they have worked out a new complex. The rocket engine became solid-propellant, the next generation radars were more accurate, the Target Ranging Radar (TRR) was added to the TTR (Target Tracking Radar) and MTR (Missile Tracking Radar) target tracking radars, which constantly determined the distance to the target and issued additional corrections for calculating device.

Three charges in the warhead were replaced by one, and Hercules began to carry a W61 atomic warhead with a capacity of 2 to 40 kilotons.


The idea to bang on the way of flying missiles and aircraft with an atomic or nuclear charge, arranging Hiroshima in the air was impressive, but in those days the use of nuclear weapons was generally treated much more simply, and in 1960 Hercules successfully intercepted an operational-tactical missile during exercises with a nuclear warhead MGM-5 Corporal.

By the way, the nuclear warhead "Hercules" could well work on ground targets.

At that time, the Nike-Hercules MIM-14 air defense system was for quite a long time considered the most advanced and effective complex of stationary air defense systems in existence. Only the appearance of the Soviet S-200 "Angara" deprived him of the status of the best. But until that time, Hercules was really the best in the world due to its large range and ability to intercept almost the entire range of flying targets. Well, the presence of a nuclear warhead also played an important role.

There was only one drawback, and, in fact, quite a big one: from the Ajax, the Hercules inherited the extremely low mobility characteristic of the air defense system of the object. That is, for Hercules, a special equipped position was needed, from which the complex simply could not withdraw on its own, which means it was a good target for a preventive strike.


But in terms of its performance characteristics, the Hercules was significantly superior to the Soviet S-75, which provided it with a fairly long life in the United States (until 1976 in service), and in Europe even longer - until 1989.

"Nike-Hercules" became the second and last complex of the unified US air defense system.

MIM-23 Hawk. 1960 - present


"Hawk" is already a really new step, at least in terms of mobility, certain actions were taken and the complex became semi-stationary. The launchers were placed on trailers, so that the air defense system could be used both as an object air defense complex to protect important targets, and as a military air defense unit to protect manpower and equipment.

The means of destruction of the complex remained a single-stage solid-propellant missile with a semi-active radar homing head.

Naturally, over 60 years of service, the complex has been modernized more than once, but with the potential in this regard (and to be honest - with low demands) there was complete order. And it was on the "Hawk" that American anti-aircraft gunners laid down a clear image of the air defense system. The main unit was the battery, which consisted of two platoons / sections of 3 launchers. That is, the battery is 6 launchers. In the 70s, an image was drawn of a reinforced battery of three platoons, that is, 9 launchers. Batteries can be grouped into divisions of three or four batteries.

Considering that in the composition of the battery all components are networked using cables, managing so many launchers did not cause problems.

The "Hawk" fought very well in the last century, knocking down everything in a row, since many countries, including those who fought against each other, were armed with the complex. As part of the US troops, the complex did not fight, but it was widely used by the countries that bought it. Iran succeeded in this, which, perhaps, became the main user of the Hawk.


Iran purchased at one time 39 batteries of the Hawk. The Iranian military used Yastreb missiles very actively in the Iran-Iraq war, shooting down up to 40 Iraqi aircraft and several of their own.

The Israeli "Hawks" in the wars against the Arab states are guilty in total of the death of about 20 Arab planes and helicopters.

The French "Hawk" in 1987 shot down a Libyan Tu-22 over the capital of Chad, N'Djamena. Kuwaiti air defense systems in August 1990 shot down two Iraqi aircraft, a MiG-23BN and a Su-22.

In general, the MIM-23 Hawk has become the most significant American air defense system in terms of combat success. The funny thing is that there is not a single victory on the account of the American army, everything belongs to the buyers of this air defense system.

Today, in some countries, the latest upgrade of the Hawk XXI, improved and more compact, is in service. The complex replaced the outdated PAR and CWAR airspace surveillance radars with the modern MPQ-64 Sentinel three-coordinate radar.

As part of the same modernization, the Norwegian company Kongsberg Defense & Aerospace adapted a mobile fire distribution point - FDC, which is used as part of the Norwegian NASAMS air defense system.

In general, today the MIM-23L / M is not a “young old man”, but a very strong middle peasant in the world of air defense systems. Able to work both on aircraft and helicopters, and on tactical and cruise missiles.

MIM-72 Chaparral. 1968 - 1998 years.


And this is also work on the mistakes in the work on the mistakes. When in the sixties the US Army realized that stationary air defense systems were not a panacea for all problems from the air, they first tried to create a more mobile MIM-46 Mauler battlefield air defense system. The troops needed a complex that was more mobile than the Hawk, which could work in the front line.

Nothing happened with the Mauler, and work began on another project, which turned out to be more successful. The secret of success, perhaps, was hidden in simplicity: the guys from Philco Aeronutronics did not bother much (unlike the Convair-Raytheon twins that created the Mauler) and adapted four MIM-72 missiles to the caterpillar chassis and put eight more in an armored box.

The salt was that under the abbreviation MIM-72, the AIM-9D Sidewinder missiles, which had already proven themselves at that time, were hidden. The only difference was that the stabilizing rollerons were mounted on only two tail stabilizers, the other two were fixed. This was done to reduce the launch weight of a ground-launched rocket. Otherwise it was a Sidewinder.

The MIM-72A missile was aimed in the same way at the infrared radiation of the target's engines. This made it impossible to shoot on a collision course, and made it possible to attack enemy aircraft only in the tail, which, however, was not something critical for a complex operating in the frontline zone.


The operator guided the missiles to the target manually, using data from the AN / MPQ-49 Forward Area Alerting Radar surveillance radar. It was possible to use an automatic guidance system, fortunately, the mechanism was simple: having received data from the radar, the operator simply aimed the sight at the target, and, holding the enemy in sight, activated the seeker of the missiles. After the missile “saw” the target, the operator simply had to launch the missile. It turned out that the electronics thought for too long, and therefore the operator turned out to be a more profitable solution.

In general, the Chaparral was developed during the years of the Vietnamese crisis and, in general, the air defense system was made according to the principle “I blinded him from what was.” But this is a completely different story, the main thing is that the US Army received a mobile air defense system.

The career of this air defense system turned out to be more than calm. The Chaparral air defense system accompanied the US Army almost everywhere; they never had to repel air attacks. USAF fighters and fleet reliably protected the sky, leaving no work for the air defense system.

The only case of combat use of the Chaparral eventually took place in 1973 on the Golan Heights and ended with the downing of a Syrian MiG-17. This is the only victory in the asset of the air defense system in 30 years of service. After being decommissioned in the US Army, the Chaparral was quietly sold to countries such as Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco, where the complex is quietly serving even today.

However, about 500 Chaparrals are in storage in the United States.

M1097 Avenger. 1989 - present


This “bad example is contagious”, this air defense system appeared in much the same way as the Chaparral: they took the chassis of an SUV and stuffed four launch containers with Stingers and a short-range radar into it. This craft is controlled using a remote control (otherwise hello to organisms from the radar).

The detection system, in addition to the radar, is also equipped with a thermal imager.

In general, the "Stinger" was well registered on self-running platforms of various sizes. The Stryker armored car carries a package of four Stingers along with the Hellfires, the Marine Corps has the LAV-AD SAM wonder machine, which already carries eight Stingers on the chassis of the Canadian LAV-25 armored personnel carrier. There is also the M6 ​​Linebacker air defense system, also eight Stingers, but on the Bradley BMP chassis.


But these are short-range "crutches". And the basis of the air defense of the US Army today is another complex, much more powerful than all these portable iterations of the Stinger.

MIM-104 Patriot. 1982 - present


They began to invent it back in the seventies of the last century, but the air defense system was born very slowly. On the one hand, the Americans had absolutely nowhere to rush, on the other hand, the result turned out to be somewhat better than previous experiments.
The basis of the ground air defense of the United States is the battalion of "Patriots". This is a command post and 2-5 batteries, 6-8 launchers and one universal radar type AN / MPQ-53 or AN / MPQ-65 in each. Each launcher has four MIM-104 missiles. Configuring the number of batteries depends on the complexity of the covered object and the size of the covered area.

"Patriot" is an advanced complex in which guidance is carried out using a synthesis of radio command and semi-active radar guidance. The original version of the PAC1 guided missiles is no longer in use, the PAC2 and PAC3 variants are in service, and the latter are placed in the amount of not 4, but 16 missiles per launcher.

"Patriot" fought, but it is difficult to call his actions successful. The first iteration of the air defense system tried in 1991 to intercept Iraqi ballistic missiles launched on the territory of Israel and Saudi Arabia, but it turned out to be very average. During the second Iraq war in the spring of 2003, the first two downed aircraft appeared on the account of the Patriots, but both of them were ... their own! American anti-aircraft gunners shot down a British "Tornado" and F / A-18C naval aviation USA.

Let's just say, not the oldest aircraft, but ... it is definitely impossible to call the result successful. Of course, the question here is not in the air defense system, but in its operators, but no one seems to have canceled the “friend or foe” system, which should work in such cases.

But these two cases were the first and so far the only ones in terms of the combat use of their air defense systems by the Americans after the Second World War.


Other users, such as Israel, have been more successful. The Israelis shot down at least two Syrian aircraft, a Su-24 in 2014 and a Su-22 in 2018, plus a number of drones. However, firing Patriots at UAVs is a very unprofitable business, since the cost of one missile, depending on the model, ranges from 3-4 million dollars.

Whether this spring, with the help of the Patriot, either the Dagger or the Iskander (I don’t see much difference) was shot down, it’s hard to say, but I have already spoken out on the topic that no, they didn’t shoot down. What was shown did not in any way draw on the "Dagger", whatever one may say. And the rockets were fired from the heart, I guess, 30 million just flew into the sky.

And here we come to the most interesting part of our review. And just take, and ask the question: and then what? What next gentlemen from America will be able to give their Ukrainian friends?

Oh, sorry, nothing!

The United States initially, since the Second World War, did not pay due attention to its air defense systems due to its complete uselessness. Our excursion showed that, feeling themselves separated from the world by two oceans, the Americans looked very calmly at the prospect of getting something from aircraft or other carriers. Aviation will be able to intercept and destroy, and when it came to missiles, it all ended with the creation of the NORAD system.

Today, the main hopes of the United States are the THAAD anti-missile system. But something new in terms of air defense - alas, so far no one in the United States sees a need for this. Everything that the planes cannot handle, in theory, the Patriot will have enough opportunities. Well, or from the Iron Dome bought in Israel.

As for the rest of the world, sorry. But by “the rest of the world” we mean Ukraine, which simply cannot survive without supplies from NATO countries. Yes, and you also need to survive not in ruins, right?

Today, the "Patriot" is undergoing a real test of combat, and against it, well, not at all junk like Soviet R-17 missiles or Su-22 bombers. And quite modern weapons systems. And how the “Patriot” will show itself in the end is a question.


Some have already rushed to attribute the downed planes and helicopters in the Bryansk region to the Patriot - I can’t say anything on this subject, there are no facts at all. It is clear that they did not fall on their own, but evidence is needed.

But already based on the results of real battles, the United States can conclude that if we are talking about full-fledged air defense, then the Americans clearly have a hole here. "Stinger" and its carriers are good, but it's up to 3 km. "Patriot" with its 3-100 km is fine, but in a good way the complex works fine in the range of 20-80 km. That is, from 3 to 20 - questions.

If you look at our air defense, then everything is in order. Moreover, so much so that between the "Needle" / "Verba" and the S-400 there are several air defense systems of various ranges and opposites that overlap each other. Moreover, we have both air defense systems and air defense missile systems, which can sadden almost any drone.

Let me emphasize that this is not primarily about site-based air defense systems, but about mobile ones that can cover troops. We are still at war.

Therefore, we are now looking not at what the Americans will cover for themselves, but what they will supply to Kyiv. It seems to be more topical.

But alas, there is nothing of the kind in the American arsenals and is not even expected. Of course, the same Hawks and Chapparels can be removed from storage, you can buy and donate Norwegian NASAMS air defense systems, this is also an option, given that the American AIM-120A air-to-air missile flies out of it.

The absence of such intermediate air defense systems (such as our "Shell", "Tunguska" and "Torah") is the reason that the United States is almost unable to help Ukraine strengthen its air defense. Yes, actually, and not so much is given. Two batteries of "Patriot", a dozen "Avengers" (one of that already ...), several hundred "Stingers" - this is unpleasant, but not critical at all.

And it turns out that "Patriot" is good, but "Dagger" - he is so, unpatriotic. And therefore it will fly, most likely, to where the Patriot will not be. There are still many goals in Ukraine.

This is how it turns out when a country that did not have problems with air defense due to the absence of external threats begins to help others.

The story is pretty instructive. If the Americans, having begun their military expansion around the world, with the construction of bases and airfields, would simultaneously begin to develop air defense, then perhaps with their interference in Ukrainian affairs, the situation could become much more complicated. But history is such a thing...
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  1. +16
    16 June 2023 01: 33
    (given that the battery includes only four launchers)

    Here the author made a mistake. The battery includes 4 ... 8 launchers. How many were in Zhuliany science is unknown.
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    2. +4
      17 June 2023 16: 49
      Not just "mistaken", but contradicts himself.

      Beginning of text:
      talking about the destruction of five at once (given that the battery includes only four launchers) is too much


      End of text:
      KP and 2-5 batteries, 6-8 launchers and one universal radar


      PMSM, the first statement was made on purpose, to smear, so to speak, with a known substance.
  2. +10
    16 June 2023 01: 50
    This is the first American air defense system (and the first mass air defense system in the world), which was produced simply in frightening quantities: more than 200 batteries covered the United States, and the total number of launchers exceeded one thousand.

    The S-25 had more launchers: 56 batteries of 60 launchers.
    1. +2
      16 June 2023 12: 31
      Quote: Pavel57
      The S-25 had more launchers: 56 batteries of 60 launchers.


      NIKE AJAX MIM-3 MIM-3A produced 350 launchers and 13 missiles during the production cycle
      the radar calculator of each (!) missile position was an extremely complex device with 13.000 lamps. In comparison, the Nike-Ajax computer managed 500 lamps, which was much better in terms of reliability and efficiency.
      A fully equipped missile position alone cost the treasury 500 million rubles (for comparison, a Tu-4 bomber cost 5,5 million rubles, a Project 68-bis cruiser - 355 million rubles). And the entire S-25 Berkut project cost a mind-boggling sum of 13 BILLION rubles.
      1. -2
        16 June 2023 18: 13
        I still haven’t found a clear answer why U-2s flew over Moscow after the creation of the S-25? And feared a U-2 overflight with Powers in 1960? Was the actual altitude lower than the declared one?
        1. 0
          16 June 2023 20: 43
          Quote: Pavel57
          why U-2s flew over Moscow ...

          They didn't fly. Here are the memoirs of the deputy of the USSR Air Defense Command (Colonel-General Yuri Vsevolodovich Votintsev, who in April 1960 was the commander of the Tashkent Air Defense Corps) He writes:
          The history of reconnaissance flights over the USSR by American Lockheed U-2 aircraft began in 1956. Moreover, the Americans flew brazenly. Twice they examined the region of Belarus, flew 40 kilometers from Moscow, flew near Kiev. In 1958, they tried to shoot down one of them from anti-aircraft guns, but the shells did not reach the flight altitude. Namely, with the help of the U-2, the Americans revealed the real location of Baikonur, revealed the Moscow missile defense ring and made sure that we did not have enough strategic bombers, but there was a sufficient number of submarines. The air defense of Moscow could have done something, but as they saw the almost completed positions of anti-aircraft missiles, the U-2 pilots were afraid to fly there.
          And so, in August 1957, one of the early warning nodes east of Minsk, at an altitude of about 20.000 meters, spotted the target. She moved through Minsk to Moscow. A few tens of kilometers before the zone of destruction by anti-aircraft missile systems, the target turned around and went to the West.
          1. +2
            17 June 2023 13: 40
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            They didn't fly. Here are the memories

            We flew.
            Carmine Vito is the only U-2 pilot to have flown directly over Moscow. His flight was the third combat flight over potentially hostile territory, or what the pilots called "hot" flights.
            The weather cleared as Vito followed a railroad line from Minsk to Moscow. At an altitude of more than 66,000 feet, he listened to Peter and the Wolf, a Russian musical composition with narration, transmitted from a Soviet radio station. Small mosaic fields of the collective farms passed below him. “Those fields reminded me that Russian farmers tilled the land by hand,” he says. “I couldn't get mad at people who work that hard. I was never mad at the Soviet people themselves, just at their government.”

            Vito's mission took him directly over Moscow and its extensive network of newly built air defenses, which ringed the city in three concentric circles at twenty, forty, and sixty miles from the city center. A smoggy sky hid the city below. “My bubble burst,” Vito recalls. “I thought, Gee I came all this way for nothing. But the filters on my camera cut through the haze. A year or so later, I learned that the resulting film picked up some remarkable detail.”

            According to a CIA history of the U-2, Vito's mission came back with images of the Fili airframe plant where the Soviets were building their first jet bomber (known as the Bison to the West); a bomber arsenal in Ramenskoye; a rocket engine plant in Khimki; and a missile plant in Kaliningrad. From just east of Moscow, he turned north to the Baltic coast and then back south to West Germany.

            “I learned later that the Soviets launched at least five fighters to intercept my flight,” says Vito. “Two planes took off initially. The lead plane aborted takeoff, ran off the runway, and exploded. The wingman went through lead's flames and then bailed out. Two more airplanes scrambled and were refueled in the air. Those airplanes got lost or collided. The pilots bailed out. A fifth plane scrambled but couldn't find the tanker. He was lost and never found this day.” Vito never received credit for five aerial victories. “After all, I never fired a shot,” he says.

            Hervy Stockman flew over Soviet territory, heading north to Leningrad to photograph the naval yards and then west to the Baltic states,
            1. 0
              17 June 2023 16: 29
              I was pleased with the passage about the refueling of Soviet fighters in the air.
              1. +2
                17 June 2023 22: 11
                Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                I was pleased with the passage about the refueling of Soviet fighters in the air.

                belay
                What?

                what's wrong?
                1. U-2 did not fly over the IA base
                2. Altitude 20000m
                3.MIG-15 must climb, reach in range and gain altitude (10000m in 7 minutes)
                The idea of ​​aerial refueling was first put forward in 1917 in the Russian Empire and patented in 1921 in the United States by Russian emigrant Alexander Seversky.
                In 1933, a reconnaissance aircraft was refueled in the USSR
                Refueling in the air (wing-wing) adopted by the USSR in 1951
                Since the 50s, Tu-4, Tu-16, M-4 and 3M bombers have become tankers in the USSR Armed Forces / Air Force
            2. -2
              18 June 2023 13: 06
              Quote from Duncan Idaho
              Hervy Stockman flew over Soviet territory, heading north to Leningrad

              So in 1955 he flew when they just adopted the S-25 Berkut. With a radius of destruction of the VTs of only 35 km ...
              And then, g / n Votintsev writes that a few kilometers from the target, he turned around and went to Leningrad ...
              And then the Yankees lie very neatly about our interceptors: one exploded, rolling out over the GDP, the second "ejected" (foolishly seen), two / had nothing to do / collided, and the fifth did not refuel in the air ...
              CIRCUS, and more! This Vito has a fantasy like Baron Ironim von Munchausen !!!
              1. +1
                18 June 2023 22: 33
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                So in 1955 he flew

                in 1956, July 5
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                the radius of destruction of the CC is only 35 km ...

                even less (there was already a significant drop in the degree of defeat)

                excellent result for that time
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                And then the Yankees lie very well

                I am not in the know. But his optics were excellent.
                He himself considers
                After forty-six years of describing this particular U-2 mission, Vito can't be sure if he's telling the story from actual memories or from memories of previous descriptions.

                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                And then, g / n Votintsev writes that a few kilometers from the target, he turned around and went to Leningrad ...

                confused with Hervy Stockman. On July 4, he flew over Soviet territory, going north to Leningrad to photograph the naval shipyards, and then west to the Baltic states to open jet bomber bases.
                Karimne from the east of Moscow turned north to the coast of the Baltic Sea, and then back south into West Germany.
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                This Vito has a fantasy like Baron Ironim von Munchausen !!!

                I will not argue, but the fact, on the face. This is clearly not made in Hollywood.
            3. 0
              12 November 2023 00: 21
              He lies like a pilot breathes.
        2. +3
          16 June 2023 22: 03
          Quote: Pavel57
          I still haven’t found a clear answer why U-2s flew over Moscow after the creation of the S-25?

          I do not know ...
          Should have knocked down

          but used IA.
          I will assume:
          - "leaked" between sectors
          - not put into full operation
    2. +2
      17 June 2023 13: 27
      “56 batteries of 60 launchers” - not batteries, but divisions, or, more precisely, regiments. The regiment had one starting division consisting of two batteries of 30 launchers each.
  3. +2
    16 June 2023 01: 51
    The British, on the other hand, said that missiles should be saved and endured. And a German journalist said that it was not good to put an iris 30 km from the front line, since the lancets arrive, it is necessary to hide the air defense far away. The best PPO is the timing for those filming arrivals and statements that all missiles are awake. And also agreements, with agreements you can break through the front line without tanks and heavy equipment for hundreds of kilometers on Hummers alone
  4. +2
    16 June 2023 01: 52
    Well, why did the states have to worry about air defense if their military doctrine is based on attack? In line with such military logic, it’s quite a solution. Now Ukrainian young ladies shoot down drones with jars of tomatoes (or cucumbers).
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  6. +12
    16 June 2023 03: 47
    What a capricious article. It's like we don't have any problems at all. And this, sorry, is not so.

    Let's start with the fact that, firstly, the United States is not the only one supplying our "respectable partners" in the gas transit and grain deal with air defense systems. So not only Stingers and Patriots are rich. Secondly, do not underestimate your opponent, especially considering that radio electronics in the West are a cut above ours. And thirdly, we have something so-so with the means to overcome air defense. LBS aviation doesn’t like to cross very much, we don’t produce rockets like seeds, but those that are available ... well ... it’s also very debatable, as it were ... firing at the energy infrastructure with missiles and UAVs worth billions of rubles for the sake of a blinking light a wonderful example of this (I generally keep quiet about how it looked for the civilian population).

    So do not relax the rolls, comrades hat throwers. It's too early.
    1. -2
      17 June 2023 21: 29
      Yes, as if, in addition to the "complete slag" Patriot, there are no the same Iris T. Yes, and the percentage of interceptions of all these X missiles, drones and missiles is quite impressive, or "Israeli", but they don’t shoot pipes like Hisbola.
      1. +1
        20 June 2023 23: 25
        Quote: karabas-barabas
        Yes, and the percentage of interceptions of all these X missiles, drones and missiles is quite impressive,

        Certainly impressive when they shoot down more than they launch.
    2. 0
      20 June 2023 23: 29
      Quote: Anton Temnukhin
      And thirdly, we have something so-so with the means to overcome air defense.

      And what about our means of overcoming air defense? Who is different and how is it different?
  7. +1
    16 June 2023 03: 50
    There may be a lot of targets, but first you need to hit the critical ones, and ours don’t really hit them, and even the PPOs cover them.
  8. +6
    16 June 2023 03: 53
    What is the article about, statements on behalf of Wikipedia data.
  9. +9
    16 June 2023 05: 00
    Roman, you forgot about the "trifles" sm3 and sm6 that are in service with the United States. So patriotism is good, but from the other side, far from suckers are fighting against us.
    1. 0
      20 June 2023 23: 22
      Quote: Thrifty
      Roman, you forgot about the "trifles" sm3 and sm6 that are in service with the United States ...

      Are they here? Especially sm3.
  10. -1
    16 June 2023 05: 37
    https://thebulletin.org/2023/06/orbital-hypersonic-delivery-systems-threaten-strategic-stability/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=BulletinAtomic%2Fmagazine%2FBulletin+of+the+Atomic+Scientists

    .....Despite all the media hype about the Kinzhal “hypersonic missiles” that Russia has used to attack Ukraine (which are actually air-launched ballistic missiles, rather than hypersonic glide vehicles or cruise missiles), the reduced time-to- target and increased destructiveness of Kinzhals are negligible compared with conventional arsenals.....
  11. +5
    16 June 2023 05: 41
    It is strange why the author compares the Nike-Ajax with the S-25, and not with the S-75, which is much closer in performance.
    And the S-25 at that time really "had no analogues in the world."
    Who cares - read the memoirs of Grigory Kisunko - "Secret Zone: Confession of the General Designer". An interesting book!
    1. +7
      16 June 2023 07: 42
      read the memoirs of Grigory Kisunko - "Secret Zone: Confession of the General Designer". An interesting book!
      And even more interesting is his book "Anti-missile shield over Moscow", where he hates the S-75. As for objectivity, there is not much.
    2. man
      +8
      16 June 2023 08: 40
      Who cares - read the memoirs of Grigory Kisunko - "Secret Zone: Confession of the General Designer". An interesting book!
      I read it until the author’s uncle arrived ... and quit. It is clear that the author is subjective, did not forgive the execution of his father (I understand this), but his uncle definitely lied about the total hatred of the people for Stalin. There were, of course, people who secretly hated the Leader ( my grandfather, for example), but the majority really idolized him. I already had three great-grandfathers under Nikolai who were bourgeois and the Bolsheviks took a lot of things from them. But they didn’t touch anyone, almost all of their descendants received a higher education, and some made a brilliant career under Stalin. Only her grandmother, her mother's mother, "suffered"; she was not allowed to enter the institute as "socially alien" and she received her higher education much later, only being the wife of a professor at this institute smile But the author did not appreciate that he, the son of an enemy of the people, was allowed to quietly receive a higher education and was entrusted to do his favorite work, and even the most secret one. And as for his father ... I understand that he was from the dispossessed, it is quite possible that harmed at work ... only the son did not know about it ...
      1. +3
        16 June 2023 19: 21
        And as for his father ... I understand that he was one of the dispossessed, it is quite possible that he harmed the workplace ... only the son did not know about this ...
        The son knew everything. The book was written in the late 80s, then it was fashionable. Kisunko, in his political naivety, even led a dialogue with Raspletin, appealing to that. that his (Raspletin's) father was shot as an active participant in the Socialist-Revolutionary rebellion in Rybinsk in 1918, and Kisunko's father was shot as a fist-eater in 1938, so to speak, kindred spirits. But Raspletin did not want to see in him a like-minded person on the political side. Actually, I was going to write a review of this book, Kisunko is strongly substituted there, he should have remembered it. I will probably write soon. The whole book is full of graphomaniac verses. I immediately remembered the Strugatskys, "Monday begins on Saturday", an episode where the hero goes to the described future. There were many poems in the future that were "either familiar or bad." I did not find familiar poems in the work of the liberal Kisunko.
        1. man
          +2
          17 June 2023 07: 49
          Kisunko, in his political naivety, even led a dialogue with Raspletin, appealing to that. that his (Raspletin's) father was shot as an active participant in the Socialist-Revolutionary rebellion in Rybinsk in 1918, and Kisunko's father was shot as a world-eating fist in 1938, so to speak, kindred spirits. But Raspletin did not want to see in him a like-minded person on the political side. Actually, I was going to write a review of this book, Kisunko is strongly substituted there, he should have remembered it.
          It seems that Kisunko was not very good as a person ... Raspletin died in 1967 (!). After 30 years, settling scores with the deceased ... well ...
  12. +2
    16 June 2023 06: 40
    Ukraine's air defense capabilities may increase significantly after the delivery of more modern aviation.
    1. -7
      16 June 2023 07: 29
      Unless NATO can still provide Ukraine with an airfield in Poland, which Russia will not dare to bomb.
      1. +3
        16 June 2023 09: 43
        Quote from: wanna
        Unless NATO can still provide Ukraine with an airfield in Poland, which Russia will not dare to bomb.

        And what about the existing planes and helicopters, are they also from Poland now? Well, okay - MI-29, Su-25, MI-8/24, let's suppose they were given, but there was no one to give the Su-24 and they let the storms hurt very badly ... we somehow convinced ourselves that we have air superiority, but in fact, neither side has it ... the cost and complexity of modern military aviation is such that both sides use it shtetl, but the Armed Forces of Ukraine have not even opened a chest with aircraft, they use the legacy of 30 years ago ...
        1. -5
          16 June 2023 09: 59
          And what about the existing planes and helicopters, are they also from Poland now?


          The existing planes in Ukraine can only take advantage of a brief window of opportunity and have never had to compete with Russia over who owns the sky.
          1. +3
            16 June 2023 12: 35
            Quote from: wanna
            And what about the existing planes and helicopters, are they also from Poland now?


            The existing planes in Ukraine can only take advantage of a brief window of opportunity and have never had to compete with Russia over who owns the sky.

            And when will our VKS compete with the Armed Forces of Ukraine whose sky? Neither side has entered enemy-controlled airspace for more than a long time... there are no fights even with explosive rockets, let alone "dog dumps"...
            1. -2
              16 June 2023 13: 41
              The Russian aerospace forces did not have the means to suppress ground-based air defenses and therefore did not achieve good results in the war. The lack of modern long-range munitions allowed aircraft to take risks by dropping primitive aerial bombs, and many were shot down in vain.

              But it was not the fear of fighting Ukrainian planes Air combat. The Ukrainians have also taken advantage of holes in the Russian air defense radar network by flying ultra low for some very limited missions.
      2. +3
        16 June 2023 13: 00
        Quote from: wanna
        Unless NATO can still provide Ukraine with an airfield in Poland, which Russia will not dare to bomb.

        Is Uzhgorod suitable?
      3. +1
        17 June 2023 21: 34
        The F16 is an unpretentious aircraft and does not need special airfields. It will be used from highways as well.
  13. -3
    16 June 2023 06: 55
    Several times "alas" ... It would be necessary at least somehow like: "for them, alas" or something ...
    And yes, about the Patriots, aren't these miracle prodigies, "perfectly" "defeated" everything and everyone, "covering" the Saudi oil plant ...?
    1. +3
      16 June 2023 18: 55
      Not so simple. The first attack is always a surprise. We drew conclusions and covered from subsequent attacks. They couldn't repeat it, but they tried.
  14. +1
    16 June 2023 09: 20
    Instead of states, European air defense manufacturers are trying. Nasamsas, irises and sumpts should also be kept in mind
  15. +1
    16 June 2023 09: 25
    As for whether they destroyed it or not, it’s like in a joke: “Gentlemen are trusted at their word” and then my card flooded ...
    However, it is recognized that the promoted super duper complex did not cope, image losses will lead to a decrease in sales. although the possibilities should not be underestimated. There are a lot of things that Petriot can handle quite well. After all, the Yankees are not fools and they did not adopt a worthless complex.
  16. -3
    16 June 2023 10: 17
    The MiG-31BM had to be upgraded to use adjustable bombs from the UMPC, if it drops them from the practical ceiling, they can plan very far.
  17. +3
    16 June 2023 10: 19
    Another article about nothing, written for the sake of clickbait. negative
  18. +4
    16 June 2023 11: 07
    what sources is this taken from? reminiscent of the style of baranets and knutov, but what to take from them: former political idlers who saddled the stands
  19. +7
    16 June 2023 12: 54
    Corporate, author's style, recognizable from the first lines. Lots of letters and characteristics from the Internet. Boring.
  20. -1
    16 June 2023 13: 37
    Dear readers, have you, of course, noticed how the most natural arms race is taking place before our eyes?


    How much we live so much this race and observe. sad

    we look at the map and understand that it is not worth waiting for air threats from Canada, this is nothing more than another state of America,


    Well, why not. Nuclear ballistic missiles and cruise missiles will fly to the US via Canada, being launched over the North Pole from the Arctic Ocean and Siberia.
  21. +5
    16 June 2023 14: 24
    Three charges in the warhead were replaced by one, and Hercules began to carry a W61 nuclear warhead with a capacity of 2 to 40 kilotons

    A paragraph that well illustrates the level of competence of the author in the matter.
    The Nike Hercules missile was equipped with either a W7 (2.5 - 28 kt) or W31 (2 - 20 kt) warhead. The power of 40 kilotons had a variant of the Honest John warhead: W-31 Mod 0, 3, which was not installed on missiles.

    And the W61 Earth Penetrator (EPW) thermonuclear warhead with a capacity of 340 kilotons, the photo of which is in the article, was developed for the AGM-129 ACM cruise missile and the MGM-134A Midgetman intercontinental ballistic missile.
    1. +6
      16 June 2023 14: 47
      Among other things, the author "left behind the scenes" several American air defense systems, for example, the world's first long-range air defense system Boeing CIM-10 BOMARC.
  22. -3
    16 June 2023 16: 10
    same patriot that failed again and again against the cheapest Iranian drone In Saudi and UAE and recently in Syria that resulted in 1 dead and 6 injured American.
    ridiculous Ukraine claim is a pr propaganda ordered by US to change the embarrassing results of patriot missile but Iranian Khordad 3 which not even best of Iranian design shot down the most expensive drone In the world with the first attempt in 3200 altitude that supposed to be out of reach of air defense missile the best Iranian air defense design and development is Bavar 373 that immediately by Russia's aviation expert is superior to s300 but he also said it behind s400
    US = propaganda
  23. +3
    17 June 2023 00: 10
    "Nike-Hercules" became the second and last complex of the unified US air defense system

    What's the last one? What about BOMARC? Well, talking about the US air defense system and not talking about SAGE - well, that's ...
  24. 0
    17 June 2023 00: 27
    1. There was information somewhere that they were still flying in 1958.
    2. In the famous film about Korolev (and Lavochkin), on May 1, they pumped up that, God forbid, the U-2 would fly to Moscow. Artistic deception?
    1. -1
      17 June 2023 13: 35
      Don't learn history from fiction. stop
  25. +2
    17 June 2023 09: 03
    Putin said here that 5 patriot complexes were destroyed. Now everything is official.
    The only problem is that two patriot complexes were delivered to Ukraine.
    1. 0
      17 June 2023 11: 46
      It seems that at least 2 batteries were supplied (USA and Germany). In the radar battery and 4-8 launchers for 4 missiles.
      Not 5 pieces.
      In the video, which was with patriots from Kyiv, the shooting was carried out from 32 rockets.
      This means that there were at least 8 launchers of 4 missiles each.
      5 out of 8 could well have been destroyed by the same dagger.
    2. +3
      17 June 2023 12: 23
      The GDP spoke out. I meant 5 launchers, said complexes ... Beats.
      1. +1
        17 June 2023 14: 04
        Maybe not, maybe he listens to Konashenkov. Of the 40 delivered Hymars, 45 were destroyed.
        1. 0
          2 November 2023 12: 37
          Quelques jours après le bureau souterrain du Gru,ou étaient les patriotes, s'ils existaient encore a Kiev?
  26. +1
    18 June 2023 19: 22
    Everything would be fine ... but air defense systems have not become a weapon of victory in any war ...
    1. -1
      26 July 2023 11: 12
      But even a meager number of them is good at holding back all of our aviation. And sometimes, even in the Bryansk region, planes are shot down by no one.
  27. 0
    21 June 2023 07: 32
    It's all good, but that's bad luck, our aviation in all these situations cannot achieve air supremacy, and is forced to work from somewhere in the rear. What actually deprives her of the possibility of mass and most importantly cheap murder, everything and everyone. If the patriot does not cover everything, the Stinger is up to 4+ km, the Soviet complexes are destroyed, and there are few missiles for them? What's stopping you?
  28. 0
    22 June 2023 21: 28
    The author of the article, who accused Putin of lying about the five installations of the Patriots, must also be attracted to the bunk, learn the correct behavior.
  29. -1
    26 July 2023 11: 11
    Skomorokhov, of course, scribbles non-stop. And I would not say that something in the article causes rejection.

    But do not exaggerate the capabilities of our air defense. Yes, we have many different systems.

    But they did not save the Antonov bridge, and the bridge between Ukraine and Crimea. It looks like there are some serious problems.
  30. 0
    28 July 2023 11: 49
    The air defense covers, but does not protect;)) It is important that even the fragmentary air defense of Ukraine keeps all our aviation in good shape. Therefore, it is necessary to knock out air defense in the first place, and then power plants, bridges and telegraphs ...
  31. 0
    26 November 2023 19: 56
    But talking about destroying five at once (considering that the battery includes only four launchers) is overkill.


    The author writes an article in which he contradicts himself. Either there are 4 launchers in the battery, then from 6 to 8 it’s already lower. But the launcher is really in the battery until 8, and here we should apologize to Konashenkov.

    The basis of US ground air defense is the Patriot battalion. This is a KP and 2-5 batteries, 6-8 starting batteries
  32. 0
    27 November 2023 08: 21
    Yes, the main American air defense is two oceans.