Entered service first battery ZAK MANTIS

The German Air Force adopted the first 35-millimeter anti-aircraft artillery complex of short-range MANTIS (Modular, Automatic and Network-capable Targeting and Interception System, Modular automatic and network guidance and interception system) manufactured by Rheinmetall Defense. The official ceremony took place on November 26 of 2012 at the German military base Husum - the home base of the First Anti-Air Battery as part of the First Schmitwig-Holstein anti-aircraft missile division of the Luftwaffe. The battery consists of six ground artillery, two fire control system stations and a command post.

MANTIS is designed to protect military facilities and strategic civilian infrastructure from low-flying air threats, including manned and unmanned aerial vehicles. NBS MANTIS of close range is able to detect, track and shoot down projectiles at close range from a protected object. The German army will be the first army in the world with such a means of protection against air threats. In the future, MANTIS will also become an important part of the future integrated defense system of the Bundeswehr SysFla. The MANTIS complexes are fully integrated with the German control systems.

Bodo Garbe, a member of the executive board of Rheinmetall Defense, symbolically transferred the system to the Bundeswehr in front of assembled troops and high-ranking officials. Garbe commented on the event: “Thanks to MANTIS, the German air force currently has the most advanced short-range air defense system at its disposal. It is a very effective system capable of withstanding a wide range of threats in future combat scenarios. In addition, its open architecture design makes investments in it meets the requirements of tomorrow. Rheinmetall is proud of the contribution that will allow MANTIS to protect our men and women in uniform during their combat deployment. "

The Bundeswehr did not have a weapon system to intercept small attacking ammunition. German military bases in Mazar-e-Sharif and Kunduz were repeatedly attacked by insurgents. In March, 2007 of the Bundeswehr approached Rheinmetall Air Defense (former Swiss company Oerlikon Contraves Defense, acquired by Rheinmetall in 2000) with the request to develop a short-range air defense system NBS C-RAM. The amount of the development contract was 48 million euros.

Nächstbereichschutzsystem (NBS) MANTIS (do not try to say it out loud) being a short-range air defense system was specially designed to protect the forward bases of the German army stationed in Afghanistan. Previously known as the NBS C-RAM (against missiles, artillery and mortar shells), 35 and millimeter, fully automated air defense systems were developed by Rheinmetall Air Defense (Rheinmetall) during 12 months on the instructions of the German Federal Office of Defense Technologies and Procurement (German Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement) and was successfully tested in conditions as close as possible to the fighting in Turkey in the summer of 2008. According to the initial plan, the system was supposed to go into service in the 2010 year and was to be deployed in Afghanistan in the 2011 year. Germany planned to use the second system for training personnel and further modernization.

The NBS MANTIS PRO system is equipped with 35 and mm automatic guns, two sensor units and a central ground command station. The sensor system consists of radar, effectors and optical-electronic sensors installed along the protected base perimeter. MANTIS is fully automated and operates around the clock without interruption (24 / 7).

The radar system is able to detect attacking ammunition from a distance of three kilometers. The system automatically and instantly opens fire on the target, hitting it at the calculated point of the flight path. The NBS MANTIS system is based on the Rheinmetall Skyshield anti-aircraft installation. Skyshield's easily transportable installation is a modular short-range ground-based air defense system (SHORAD). It introduced automated and flexible features. The system's rate of fire is about 1000 rounds per minute. The gun is programmed to fire in accordance with a specific task. An air blast (air burst advanced hit efficiency and destruction, AHEAD) ammunition developed by Rheinmetall Weapons and Munitions (formerly Oerlikon Contraves Pyrotec) is used. Each projectile contains 152 tungsten striking elements each weighing 3.3 grams. The 35 quick-fire and millimeter cannon of a revolving type with an AHEAD air blast ammunition can be integrated into several air defense systems, including the Skyshield. These guns have been used successfully by NATO forces since the 1996 of the year, in particular, in the Skyranger ZSU and ZAK Millennium MDG-3 shipboard. MANTIS gun produces a line of 24-x shells.

The shells are programmed through an electromagnetic inductance located on the barrel. Tungsten hitting elements weighing in 3.3. grams each form a cone-shaped cloud on the flight path of the attacking target. The system response time from target detection to shelling is 4.5 seconds. Depending on the requirements, the system may have up to eight ground artillery installations. Two systems can work together complementing each other. Switching from one target to another takes about 3-4 seconds. The MANTIS control system is also able to track the location of the source of fire and the intended location of the attacking ammunition.

MANTIS has a modular design, which makes it possible to upgrade and expand the system in the future. According to Rheinmetall, in addition to its current 35 and millimeter cannon in the future, the system will be equipped with additional attack weapons, such as anti-aircraft missiles or high-energy lasers. MANTIS with a laser lesion system was demonstrated last year. According to Oshner, two high-precision telescopes will be used in the laser system.

The cost of the MANTIS system was about € 150 million (194.4 million dollars). In May 2009, the German government placed an order for two NBS systems for the Bundeswehr from Rheinmetall. The contract value was € 110.8 million. Rheinmetall also received options for € 20 millions, implying the preparation of documentation, further training and staff maintenance. The company will also supply ammunition for this system for about € 13.4 million.

Speaking at a briefing in Dresden on July 19, Fabian Ochsner (Fabian Ochsner), vice president of Rheinmetall Air Defense, said: "Now it is officially agreed with the German Air Force. The system will remain in Germany, it will not be deployed in Afghanistan. It is obvious that we missed our chance. " Despite the fact that the system will not be deployed in Afghanistan, Oshner said that the air force needs two more such systems. The reason for the refusal to send the complex to Afghanistan, apparently, was the forthcoming withdrawal of the German contingent from there, scheduled for 2014.

Comments

[tronin.maxim]

Well, I don’t know, I like our DUET more than German development!

[predator.3]

"Thanks to MANTIS, the German Air Force now has the most advanced short-range air defense system at its disposal. It is a highly effective system capable of countering a wide range of threats in future combat scenarios. Moreover, its open architecture design makes investments in it future-proof. Rheinmetall is proud of the contribution that MANTIS will make to protect our men and women in uniform during their combat deployment. "

Yes, you can easily obigorit this "most advanced short-range air defense system"!

[snek]

The Germans are able to do weapons - you will not say anything. The only thing that is strange is why all the samples are on stationary platforms (although this may be at the test stage). Here, by the way, is another video in the topic:

[haron]

".... strange - why are all the samples on stationary platforms (although it may be at the testing stage) ...."
Perhaps stationary binding helps to quickly and efficiently calculate all the accuracy parameters of which the article was written.
Well, the very formulation of the appointment "... MANTIS is designed to protect military installations and strategic civilian infrastructure ...."
Although you are right, the Bundeswehr has nowhere to go "Bye", and Rheinmetal has already taken a lot of money for the "trunk", if you add a mobile platform there, it is not a fact that you would buy.
Interestingly, is there a funnel above the battery?

[Simple]

"Is there a funnel above the battery?"


No.

[Evrepid]

De not really?
The affected area for several intersecting shooting lines cannot but have such a restriction.
Shells fired at a certain angle can cover their tower. The funnel should be, for a separate machine, and in order to close, the zone must be turned off by one of the machines, otherwise their own shells will be smashed into chips.
In general, a very dangerous thing. If you combine several shells, you get a system no less cool. IMHO.

[Professor]

The only thing that is strange is why all the samples are on stationary platforms (although this may be at the test stage).

Read the article, it is also written there:
German military bases in Mazar-e-Sharif and Kunduz were repeatedly attacked by rebels.

... was specially designed to protect the advanced bases of the German army stationed in Afghanistan.

MANTIS is designed to protect military installations and strategic civilian infrastructure

[snek]

Quote: professor

Read the article, it is also written there: German military bases in Mazar-e-Sharif and Kunduz were repeatedly attacked by insurgents .... was specially designed to protect the advanced bases of the German army stationed in Afghanistan. MANTIS is designed to protect military installations and strategic civil infrastructure facilities

Yes, I read and understand, but it would be more logical to do it anyway on a mobile platform (at least on a trailer).

[Professor]

Well, if in "principle", then there is no problem to put on the chassis of Mercedes or mana. The Germans have enough of this stuff.

[Old skeptic]

Quote: professor

German military bases in Mazar-e-Sharif and Kunduz were repeatedly attacked by rebels.

sounds somehow ......

And the Bundeswehr aunt needs battle robots to protect German soldiers from the rebels.
I'm crying

[Poppy]

so airlik like swiss

[Professor]

so airlik like swiss

Why am I writing these articles if all the same no one reads them, but only looks at the pictures. Looks like I should tie this scribble ...

In March of the 2007, the Bundeswehr turned to the Rheinmetall Air Defense (former Swiss company Oerlikon Contraves Defense acquired by Rheinmetall in 2000) requesting the development of an NBS C-RAM short-range air defense system.

[dmitreach]

Professor, articles in Russian are not easy to find. very informative.

[Num lock U.A.]

write, professor, write, they are "golden" ©
not, well, for example, I read, although rarely comment
thank you

[scripter]

The only thing that is strange is why all the samples are on stationary platforms (although this may be at the test stage).

because it is an object stationary air defense to protect military bases from mortars and other evil spirits.
and transportable, judging by the design and video.

[Greyfox]

In fact, the value of stationary air defense platforms in modern combat tends to zero. If this crap cannot change position, the kingdom of heaven

[Brother Sarych]

Curious design!
Here there are claims that they are stationary - but for me, in this case it is more a virtue than a disadvantage! Immediately, their prime cost decreases sharply, more units can be delivered - but there is no special need for them to move, because they are not guarding the troops on the march. and stationary objects!
Here were the tasks to guard the summits, Olympic facilities - to hell with such facilities, the ability to move somewhere? Where they put it, there they stand - and it’s cheap and cheerful ..

[Professor]

Where they put it, there they stand - and it’s cheap and cheerful ..

Cheap? Xnumx llama green is it cheap?

[Brother Sarych]

And if you attach a self-propelled chassis to them, will it become cheaper?

[Professor]

Are you kidding me like that? Hope to distract your question is not necessary?

[Brother Sarych]

Somehow I didn’t count on an answer, but now it has become very interesting - but what would you answer?

[Professor]

Radar, 6 gun mounts and KP- 8 trucks. Oshkosh costs about half a million per truck, Mercedes about the same. Total 4 million dollars and the system is highly mobile. Given the cost of the system in 194 million, these 4 do not play a big role.

[Brother Sarych]

Isn't that the cost of two systems and their development? If there was a series, then everything would surely be cheaper, and then the "legs" would already begin to play a noticeable role in the cost price ...

[Professor]

A dozen trucks in any case do not. In an extreme case, they will buy KAMAZ at a cheap price.

[Footmansur86]

And as compensation for vibrations and pitching, calibration after movement, deployment time, transport-loading machines, it’s far from 4 million to remodel a complex from a stationary to a mobile one.
and judging by the installation method on the prepared foundation (with preliminary planning of the site), with the provided horizontal adjustment, it turns out that the complex is sensitive to distortions and deviations, and the stabilization mechanism will have to be invented on the chassis.

[Professor]

judging by the installation method on the prepared foundation

The Germans simply do not know how otherwise - they do everything thoroughly.

[Footmansur86]

I came up with the Uber air and ground defense systems of rain metal cryothed, set fixed firing points on the basis of the Leopard-2, place Mantis, mine approaches, pull the thorn, dig a moat with alligators, swamp the terrain on the flanks with an artificial method (to avoid a roundabout maneuver) and opa in safety)))
P.S. I almost forgot to plan the site and fill the foundations))
For the development of the technological base and movement in the scientific and technical sphere, this model seems to me more justified, since in the near future this complex is unlikely to be useful to Germany.

[Simple]

"... because in the near future this complex is unlikely to be useful to Germany."

Well, as this is not useful, you can always sell a good thing.
Well, the "spoon is the road to dinner" - as it were.

[Bosk]

The platform for them will be the ships.

[Igor]

There would still be shells with a remote detonation on such a gun, but to hang on an infantry fighting vehicle and what it would do with enemy infantry would not even be dreamed of in a nightmare.

[Professor]

For such a gun there would still be shells with remote detonation

The shells are programmed through an electromagnetic inductor located on the barrel.

[Footmansur86]

Only I had a question in my head "this is a MIRACLE of technology super mobile, where is CHASSI?" In this situation, the destruction of this type of equipment consists in determining the base location and the subsequent strike.
The Germans would have begun to build fortresses))

[Evrepid]

Poorly read and poorly watched the video.
The gun creates a cloud of fragments when fired ...
Equipped with radar, lidar, IR sensors, optical system ...

It will certainly recognize a missile directed in its direction ... And it will destroy it, unless of course it is a nuclear warhead ... :)

[Leisure]

I think the system will stand in the location of the base and striking at it will be difficult. Another + system is firmly on the foundation, which will add accuracy to the fire.
By the way, against any "Qassams", it would be useful.

[Verde]

It’s expensive and ineffective against Kasams. 200 m $ vs 50 m $ The dome is cheaper, and also protects an incomparably large area. + conducts selection of goals.

[haron]

Quote: Verde

It’s expensive and ineffective against Kasams.

So it is necessary to consider not the cost of the system but the cost of one salvo necessary to defeat the kasama.

[Verde]

shoots expensive programmable shells, and besides, there is no target selectivity, and plus one iron dome is 160 sq km in coverage area and this crap is about 10. And instead of one dome they need to be 16, we multiply 16 by 200 million greenery we get the astronomical amount . With such cheapness, this is not for the Jews. They know what they are doing.

[patsantre]

Selectivity of goals I think is not a problem if necessary.
I agree on the coverage area.

[Evrepid]

The tasks are different!
It's like the Japanese have knives with knives, you can’t cut meat with a fish knife;
And such a system can easily cover an armored personnel carrier or a group of saboteurs, etc.

Once again, a good machine. Deutsche Arbeiten ... :)

[Zerstorer]

I don’t understand another thing. Why did they choose a revolving circuit? Maybe it’s certainly better worked out for them, but still the resource of the barrel ... I like the scheme with the rotating block of trunks more (although the product turns out to be more expensive).

[bazilio]

"Nächstbereichschutzsystem (NBS) MANTIS (don't try to say it out loud)"pleased.

An interesting system. In fact, this cannon is designed to defeat not only aircraft, but also small-sized ballistic and reactive targets (artillery shells, nurses, etc.) With reactive ammunition, everything is clear, but what about the shells. large-caliber artillery shells are not so easy to penetrate, all the more striking elements fly towards. These are my guesses.

It is interesting that in order to solve a similar problem, they returned to barrel artillery. Economically, such a system, if it effectively strikes targets, looks more promising than anti-aircraft missiles and rapid-fire anti-aircraft "automatic weapons". In fact, this cannon with fragmentation supplies is some kind of super-mega-shotgun.

[Professor]

what to do with shells. large-caliber artillery shells are not so easy to penetrate, all the more striking elements fly towards.

The striking elements are made of tungsten (I suspect tungsten carbide) and are very hard. "the more damaging elements fly towards" increasing the kinetic energy ...

It is interesting that in order to solve a similar problem, they returned to barrel artillery. Economically, such a system, if it effectively strikes targets, looks more promising than anti-aircraft missiles and rapid-fire anti-aircraft "automatic weapons".

in the future, the system will be equipped with additional striking means, such as anti-aircraft missiles or high-energy lasers. Mantis with a laser lesion system was demonstrated last year. According to Oshner, two high-precision telescopes will be used in the laser system.

They will buy LCD from Raphael and integrate into the system.

[Nasty]

But for our shells, the option of shells with remote detonation was not worked out?

[leon-iv]

Nemchigi still decided how to slow down the labi?
They dumped from Afghanistan, but only a system was developed to protect the bases.

And again, the question is in the channel and combat rate of fire.

[Tirpitz]

Professor, thanks for the interesting article. Please post more articles about German developments (Air Force, Naval Forces .....), especially since they are all very technological and modern, there is something for us to adopt.

[patsantre]

An interesting article, I liked the system as well. As for the lack of a chassis, there is one more plus point besides rigid fixation and stabilization - there are no restrictions on weight and dimensions, and you can cram the unbearable.
And yet. The system began to be developed in 2007 - and in 2011 it is already in service. Even if it is not an aircraft carrier or a fifth generation aircraft, but the same shell was shown at the MAKS back in 1995, and there is still no horseradish in service.

[leon-iv]

it’s just that the carapace
+ Radar on the same shell of a completely different level.
+ dofiga everything.
EMNIP like radar stands on the Goalkeeper.

[KAZAKHSTAN]

They also surprised me! :) similar systems were in the Union after the Second World War ... A cannon + radar and still motionless ... Shell C is an air defense machine ... and there is nothing for us to adopt from them, the backlog of their technologies on their faces as they say

[UzRus]

How is this system worse than the same Israeli Dome?

[Professor]

The range of interception and the area of ​​the protected area. That's when they add rockets it will be no worse.

[UzRus]

And what is the range of the guns? If the radar detects targets at a distance of 3 km, then it can be assumed that the effective firing range is about 2 km.

[Professor]

Effective range 3500 meters
By the way, the gun mount weighs about 4-x - it is quite transportable even on heavy and expensive trucks.

[UzRus]

Effective range 3500 meters “Well, if you put instead of the Dome without missiles, then the range is still not enough, is it?”

[Professor]

Well, if you put in place of the Dome and without missiles, then the range is still not enough, right?

There is not enough money to cover the floor of Israel.

[Verde]

Prof, how did you joke that without the lead panties under the radar I would not dare to sit, I’m wondering, Israel is probably the most radar-saturated state on the area, although the radars are directed and "shine" towards the Arabs. Maybe this is the natural solution to the problem? More and more missiles at Hamas - the more and more powerful the Israelis' radars. You look, the Arabs will stop rushing under such radiation.

[Professor]

You look, the Arabs will cease to rush under such radiation.

Then they are treated in packs of infertility in Israeli clinics - in all seriousness.

[leon-iv]

Prof is data on two critical parameters
- Channel
- Practical rate of fire

[UzRus]

leon-ivIt seems that for the purpose of a single-channel - Two systems can work together complementing each other. Switching from one target to another takes about 3-4 seconds.. Though...

[leon-iv]

If single-channel then it is facespalm.zhpg

[Professor]

Well, the bourgeois do not like this term "channel" or in every possible way hide it.

[leon-iv]

Well, rephrase it.
How many can simultaneously accompany and shell targets.

[UzRus]

Apparently, to accompany not one, but to fire only one, and then switch to another.

[Simple]

This is a multi-channel system - watch carefully video from snek

[Simple]

"Why is this system worse than the same Israeli Dome?"

These are two different systems in their purpose.

[leon-iv]

Than different those and those intercept non-maneuvering ballistic targets.

[Simple]

Your truth is my inaccurate wording.

More precisely, it would be:
the tasks to be solved are different for these two systems.

[KAZAKHSTAN]

Perhaps the most interesting Iranian development in the field of anti-aircraft
artillery is an automatic 100-mm ZU "Sair", created on the basis of
Soviet post-war 100-mm anti-aircraft guns KS-19. For now,
"Sair" is perhaps the largest-caliber land
automatic anti-aircraft artillery system in the world and it is clearly
created to partially compensate for the lack of modern anti-aircraft
missile systems in Iran. KS-19 anti-aircraft guns themselves are long outdated, but
they have a very decent height of defeat - up to 15,4 km, than
decided to use in Iran. During ongoing deep
modernization, guns are equipped with an automatic loading system and
electrical power tracking drives that are associated with optical
electronic fire control system that provides automatic
pointing guns and firing on command from a control point.

[Yarbay]

Quote: KAZAKHSTAN

Perhaps the most interesting Iranian development in the field of anti-aircraft
artillery is an automatic 100-mm ZU "Sair", created on the basis of
Soviet post-war 100-mm anti-aircraft guns KS-19

Is this your interesting development ??

[Yarbay]

Here is another ingenious development of Iranian engineers))

[PLO]

Of course, as a separate military development, MANTIS is a cool installation, but in general some kind of garbage

this complex will not be able to repel a serious fire attack as well as leave from it, so actually the question arises what the hell is it for?
In general, the amount of money spent does not correspond to the result

I don’t believe in high-energy lasers in the near future, and of course it is possible to equip SAMs, but obviously only on a separate platform

the same Shell is much more efficient and universal now, perhaps the only advantage of Mantis is programmable shells

[Professor]

this complex will not be able to repel a serious fire attack as well as leave from it, so actually the question arises what the hell is it for?

What for it is needed repeatedly indicated in the article.
Leave? Like we will no longer cover the airbase, sort it out as you like, and we "leave". How is that so?

I don’t believe in high-energy lasers in the near future

And do not believe the facts inexorably speak of their existence.

the same shell is much more effective

A link to the studio.

[Verde]

Quote: professor

Leave? Like we will no longer cover the airbase, sort it out as you like, and we "leave". How is that so?

Oh ёёёёооо guys, let it go to f * ck, we went home.

Quote: professor

the same shell is much more effective

The carapace in general is still a contraption, according to the test results it turned out that a more or less decent result shows only against missiles flying exactly at it. That is, they created a thing that effectively protects itself. Well, that the carapace must protect itself, it also costs money.

[PLO]

Oh ёёёёооо guys, let it go to f * ck, we went home.

ridiculously)

In general, the carapace is still a contraption, according to the test results it turned out that a more or less decent result shows only against missiles flying exactly at it

these are the features of the rocket,
he shoots down any targets with a relatively small course parameter with guarantee, as well as low-speed non-maneuvering targets he shoots down everywhere in the affected area

[PLO]

Leave? Like we will no longer cover the airbase, sort it out as you like, and we "leave". How is that so?

if the artillery hits the base and there’s nothing to destroy it, and there’s nothing to intercept the shells, then the only way out is to dump and, if possible, evacuate the materiel ... I think the fate of the mantis in this situation is a foregone conclusion

What for it is needed repeatedly indicated in the article.

the article repeatedly describes exclusively the goals and objectives proposed by the developers of the complex, the use of these complexes in at least how much serious local conflict is impossible, its destiny is to intercept single shells / mines

In general, the amount of money spent does not correspond to the result

And do not believe the facts inexorably speak of their existence.

a reference to the studio)
even the notorious American flying laser could not be made effective, and the placement of an adequate power source on these Mantis is already ridiculous, etc.

the same shell is much more effective
A link to the studio.

a reference of what?
both of these complexes were not used in real combat, so we will judge solely by performance characteristics and tests
the shell-c1 is a real short-range air defense system capable of combating high-precision ammunition, missile defense, helicopters and airplanes (with some reservations)

MANTIS is a non-propelled, non-mobile crap that limits its use, and the list of targets is limited to high-precision munitions and single shells / mines, any helicopter will be able to detect and destroy its position, not to mention aircraft

[Professor]

if artillery hits the base and there’s nothing to destroy it

If artillery hits the base and there’s nothing to hit it with, then it’s too late to dump ...
However, in the case of the Germans, they have their own inveterate artillery in Afghanistan too.

a reference to the studio)

Only for you.

the shell-c1 is a real short-range air defense system capable of combating high-precision ammunition, missile defense, helicopters and airplanes (with some reservations)

how does the shell work on artillery shells?

[PLO]

If artillery hits the base and there’s nothing to hit it with, then it’s too late to dump ...
However, in the case of the Germans, they have their own inveterate artillery in Afghanistan too.

actually you confirmed my words
in its current state, MANTIS is an extremely highly specialized tool against single shells / min, which is not yet worth the money spent on its development

Only for you.

decades pass from such prototypes to the creation of truly effective designs
now the same mantis is much more effective and cheaper

how does the shell work on artillery shells?

depending on what

[Professor]

decades pass from such prototypes to the creation of truly effective designs

Take an interest in this system. She is really fighting and almost got to the border with the Gaza Strip. This did not happen for several objective and subjective reasons.

now the same mantis is much more effective and cheaper

Again "more effective" ... Will you share a little bit about efficiency? Well, about "cheaper" too.

how does the shell work on artillery shells?
depending on what

All impatiently. State - wait.

[PLO]

Take an interest in this system. She is really fighting and almost got to the border with the Gaza Strip. This did not happen for several objective and subjective reasons.

sure to take an interest
but hardly considered
if it was really effective, cheap and unpretentious, the same cunning Jews would have adopted it long ago in order to bring down the Kassams, but for now they are tormented with their dome

Again "more effective" ... Will you share a little bit about efficiency? Well, about "cheaper" too.

see above

All impatiently. State - wait.

I state: against cast iron nuclei it is extremely ineffective

I wonder what exactly do you want to hear from me?
he shoots down low-speed ballistic targets guaranteed, if only because it knocks down missile defense without problems, everything else rests on the detection range of shells and RS.
how far radar SOC can detect a 152mm projectile I can’t imagine, I’m sure of one thing: the carapace radar is better than the mantis radar, so now you prove that you are not a camel
and is mantis capable of destroying shells / mines / pc at all

[Professor]

if it was really effective, cheap and unpretentious, the same cunning Jews would have adopted it long ago in order to bring down the Kassams, but for now they are tormented with their dome

Troll? Not one of the statements can confirm with external sources of information - only speculation.

see above

Reviewed, but found INFORMATION about "more efficient" and "cheaper". Performance characteristics or materiel, where are the links, Zin?

so now you prove that you are not a camel

This is an adult.

and is mantis capable of destroying shells / mines / pc at all

Teach materiel and do not bother me anymore.

[PLO]

Troll? Not one of the statements can confirm with external sources of information - only speculation.

I looked around, but I found INFORMATION about "more efficient" and "cheaper". Performance characteristics or materiel, where are the links, Zin?

how quickly you change your mind, I remember recently you claimed that the MiG-31 is not the best interceptor in the world because you have never really intercepted anyone

my argument for problems with THEL is the lack of real application of even a prototype for your direct task, as you assume confirmation of this fact by external sources is not clear, but it looks like a certificate that you are not a muskrat
while Mantis, despite its inferiority, has already been adopted and stands, as I understand it, on combat duty

TTX or materiel, links where, Zin?

Now it’s really masturbation, to compare the abstract performance characteristics of complexes that cannot even closely convey all the nuances of a particular system, not to mention the truth of these performance characteristics is in question.

much more accurately operate with quality characteristics
and now the facts are the following: lasers are not now in service with any country in the world, if they would give any cardinal advantage over conventional MZA or air defense systems, they would have gone into the series a long time ago, the same Africans very much respect the wunderwafers and their costs would not stopped
and this is not speculation, this is a homespun truth

This is an adult.

exactly
if an argument is made for you by an unconfirmed video, please see this lot of junk on the Internet
and guns and rockets work

[Professor]

Do you have a problem understanding what you wrote? Disposition? You claim that the same Shell is much more efficient and universal nowIs there evidence of the effectiveness of your speculation?
Further in the text: I am sure of one: the radar of the shell is better than the radar of the mantis - TTX not? Again speculation.
is mantis capable of destroying shells / mines / pc at all - an attempt to trolling, the Germans adopted the system without having tested it. Petrosyan nervously smokes on the sidelines.
now the same mantis is much more effective and cheaper- so voice the cost once you say it’s cheaper

Learn the materiel and stop trolling. Specifically, I stop feeding you.

[leon-iv]

evidence of the effectiveness of your speculation is available?
More universal, and moreover, it was created in order to be able to do everything well. If we take the object’s air defense task, then the carapace is better, and I think it’s pointless to argue with this
Mantis was made for a specific TK; there he is better than shell cannons (rockets must be watched) And in terms of consumption for one target he is out of competition. Although I would do on a 57mm base
TTX not? Again speculation.
well why not
According to the shell
Externally, the Mantis radar is very similar to Goalkeeper CIWS Therefore, the performance characteristics can be taken from there.

[Professor]

leon-iv, I'm talking about efficiency. To argue that this or that complex is more effective, you must at least know the performance characteristics. The same story with "cheaper", and everything else is typical trolling and demagoguery.

[PLO]

the same Shell is much more efficient and universal now

so you need the proof of the fact that twice two is equal to four
No problem
self-propelled shell, no mantis
the shell shoots zur at a distance of up to 20 kilometers, the mantis with only a cannon up to 3 km

if you did not know, then re-read your article and review this video again

Carapace radar is better than mantis radar

Detection and tracking tools for the Pantsir-C1 complex include:
- radar detection with phased array phasedimeter 1RS1-1E;
Azimuth viewing angles:
- 60 hail
- 360 grad with mechanical rotation
Viewing angles by elevation - 60 degrees
Range of detection and target designation:
- 15 km (high-speed small-sized target during tests at the Kapustin Yar test site)
- 26 km (Mi-8 helicopter during tests at the Kapustin Yar training ground)
- 27 km (small-sized E95 target during tests at the Kapustin Yar test site)
- 32-38 km (target with EPR 2 sq.m according to various sources)
- 50 km (MiG-29 during tests at the Kapustin Yar test site)
- radar for target tracking and missile guidance with phased array of millimeter and centimeter ranges 1PC2 / 1PC2-1E "Helmet", developed by NPO Fazotron * (development timeframe was violated by the developer); manufacturer - JSC RATEP (since 2008 - series).
Azimuth viewing angles - 45 degrees
Viewing angles by elevation - 45 degrees
Tracking Range:
- 14.5 km (high-speed small-sized target during tests at the Kapustin Yar test site)
- 23 km (small-sized E95 target during tests at the Kapustin Yar test site)
- 25 km (Mi-8 helicopter during tests at the Kapustin Yar training ground)
- 24-30 km (target with EPR 2 sq.m according to various sources)
- 34 km (MiG-29 during tests at the Kapustin Yar test site)

by mantis there is no data besides this

The radar system is able to detect attacking ammunition from a distance of three kilometers.

that says nothing about the type of ammunition,

with all this, it is enough to compare the sizes of these radars SOC and SSC to make an unambiguous conclusion
the dimensions of the antenna sheet and radar energy are decisive characteristics in the range and detection efficiency

[PLO]

whether the mantis is capable of destroying shells / mines / pc at all - an attempt to trolling, the Germans adopted the system without testing.

did you catch the gist it's good
shell-s1 is also tested, video above

now the same mantis is much more efficient and cheaper, so voice the cost once you say it’s cheaper

Are you sure you yourself wrote the article?

In May 2009, the German government placed an order for two NBS systems for the Bundeswehr with Rheinmetall. The contract value was € 110.8 million. Rheinmetall also received € 20 million options, including documentation, further training and staff services. The company will also supply ammunition for this system in the amount of approximately € 13.4 million.

[Dimon Lviv]

Beautifully you washed prohfes Sora, Respect!

[Evrepid]

Look at the trajectory ... :)
Look at what is shown in the video, that the system destroys only a flying charge! Where did the rest go?
Etc. propaganda video posted on the network specifically to scare ...)

While she will destroy one shell another will blow her. flying along a different trajectory, and if there are 10 such shells ... the system will be lit :)

[leon-iv]

The carapace is not effective only on wheels.
We put the module without the KAMAZ base.
We take the radar Ala Zoo + Obzornik and we put the SSC as a separate module
+ We put our PU MLRS or mortars with ASUO
The first volleys The zoo calculates the coordinates and induces MLRS and mortars
And the carapace is working on goals.
The shell has a canal in shooting 4
Accordingly, we can, due to 4 shells, block a volley of 16 missiles simultaneously.
Everyone can capture and shell 10 targets per minute, which means theoretically 40 shot down missiles

[Verde]

I don’t make fun of the idea of ​​the Shell at all. I'm just saying that the system is still damp. and over the shell should still work. Which, in general, is happening. In the meantime, the Shell is offered to the Arabs for sale. It doesn’t matter to them what equipment they throw and scatter at the sound of an airplane flying up. And at a military parade somewhere in Dubai, so the Shell already looks quite solid for itself. What else do they need?

[leon-iv]

And I say that you make fun of
I say that with the help of "inexpensive" alterations, you can get a system no worse.

[Verde]

worse and much. The carapace does not have and is not supposed to have air shells. And the density of fire that such shells can create is incommensurably higher. About MLRS did not understand where does it? If the Israelis could afford to cover the kassam with counter-battery fire of their MLRS, then the domes would not be required. Three four volleys of Lynx battery and half of Gaza in ruins and majahideen are quieter than water. But stink in the liberal world .......

[PLO]

And the density of fire that such shells can create is incommensurably higher.

the Carapace has a 4-barrel, Mantis has only one

[UzRus]

By the way, on the Shell. On the website militeriras.ru there is such an infa:

At the open XV-th All-Russian conference "Actual problems of protection and security" held in St. Petersburg in the report "Assessment of the characteristics of the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile system" (see source - Belotserkovsky ...) it was stated that the work on the Pantsir- C1 "are being conducted within the framework of the Program for the Development of a Unified System of Anti-Aircraft Missile Weapons (Weapons)" and are directly divided into the ZPRK, Pantsir-S1, Pantsir-SM, Redut and Gladiator design and development projects. Pantsir-S1 "within the framework of the specified ROC, it is planned to create interspecific air defense systems, including the air defense of the ground forces. It is noted that the main advantage of the air defense system is the possibility of automatic functioning, including as part of an air defense unit.
At the same time, the report notes the following disadvantages of the complexidentified as a result of real shooting at the firing range:
1) Poor air defense missile defense capabilities are shown for firing targets maneuvering and flying with a heading parameter of more than 2-3 km;
2) The possibility of firing at targets flying at speeds of more than 400 m / s has not been confirmed, although a speed of 1000 m / s is given in the performance characteristics of the complex;
3) The maximum firing range of 20 km is provided for aerial targets flying at a speed of no more than 80 m / s (on the E-95 target), since the available overloads of missiles at this range do not exceed 5 units.
4) The main disadvantage of a bicaliber missile (model not specified) is the lack of an engine in the march stage of the missile launcher, as a result of which within the declared damage range the missile will move with negative acceleration of the order of 50-30 m / sq. Sec, which leads to the appearance of such non-linearities in the input signal of the missile control loop, which lead to an increase in errors of its guidance on the actively maneuvering target.
5) The capabilities of the complex to defeat tactical ballistic missiles, OTP, as well as their warheads when using a hypersonic missile with a warhead weighing 4 kg have not been confirmed.
6) The presence of only two guidance methods for SAM (the model is not specified) - the three-point method and the half-straightening method - which limits the capabilities of the air defense system to defeat various types of air-defense systems in difficult conditions (maneuver, interference, NLC, a hovering helicopter, UAV, etc. .d.).
7) The control system for the detonation of the warhead of a hypersonic missile, operating on a signal from the anti-aircraft missile system in accordance with the established distance difference between the target and the missile, can only be effective when aiming the missile defense system (model not indicated) by the method of full straightening, and when aiming the missile defense system using the "three-point method "and half straightening is triggered only when the target moves directly to the firing ZPRK combat vehicle.
8) In the aforementioned last case, the effectiveness of hitting a target may turn out to be low due to the phenomenon of rebounding of the striking elements of the combat chat, since in this case their vector of their speed will be directed at a small angle to the surface of the target.

[Pacifist]

I can’t compare, the data for this is not enough. The system is designed for very specific, narrow tasks and, apparently, is capable of performing them well. The rest is just speculation, there is no exact comparative data. No test results.
Well, the Germans have once again proved that they are talented engineers and designers, and if a talented adversary should not be respected, then at least not be faulty from scratch. In my opinion, the Germans did a very good system.

[Begemot]

I can not understand what kind of sighs are oh, these toys are really very good for fighting spirits. Grenade rounds, mines, ATGMs, or NURs, can even do something even more serious, for example, they can intercept a D-30 or UAV shot. BUT! I take a calculator and think. The recall time is 4,5 seconds, the radar range is 3 km. We divide the range by time and it turns out that everything flying faster than 666 m / s safely reaches the target. I open the TTX T-90. The initial projectile speed of 1750 m / s. Thus: from a distance of 3,5 km, the T-90 ends this miracle of technology and all that it protects, since the projectile’s flight time is 3-4 seconds.

[leon-iv]

if the T-90 reaches it, then by definition the fins are uphill and hitler kaput

[Verde]

As one Israeli general said, the best air defense is our tanks at enemy airfields. If the tanks are at such a distance, then yes, you need to hang out a white sheet and go for Bavarian beer, so that the Russians would not meet empty-handed.

[UzRus]

Hippopotamus, almost everything is true. BUT! At a distance of 3,5 km, the T-90 is unlikely to admit ...

[Begemot]

so I began with the fact that fighting with the spirits is an excellent technique, a grenade launcher, ATGM, NUR and everything else, too, is not fired from another continent. If the spirit with the RPG has approached the firing range, then the tank can, or a miracle the equipment still needs to be separately guarded along the perimeter of 5 km.

[kpox]

But the "dad" of the duet - AK-630

[Professor]

But among the bourgeois:

[UzRus]

And also on the Shell:

9) The effective coordination of missile defense missile equipment (the area of ​​operation of the non-contact target sensor, the NDC and the strike area of ​​the striking elements of the warheads), as well as the prevention of the operation of the NDC of the SAMs (model not specified) from the underlying surface when firing at the NLC, is not ensured.
10) The influence of meteorological conditions (rain, fog, hydrometeors) on a decrease in the target detection range for the developed radar SCR of the millimeter wave range is 10-50 times stronger than for the version of the ZPRK with a radar of the centimeter wave range, and this disadvantage cannot be compensated for by the presence in the ZPRK "Patsir-S1" optoelectronic channel for tracking the VC, due to the strong dependence of the quality of the latter on weather conditions.
11) The large overall dimensions of the ZRPK combat vehicle on a wheelbase, especially in height (in the firing position of 5,65 m), as well as the lack of armor protection of the complex and the equipment compartment (SOC, SSSR, SUO) do not allow the use of front-line air defense systems in combat and pre-battle orders of the covered forces.
12) The dimensions of the ZPRK combat vehicle in the stowed position on the wheelbase (4,374 m) do not allow it to be transported by rail, since the permissible loading height (1T) is 3,8 m, while dismantling the equipment compartment and loading it onto the platform for transportation with the help of a special crane is 3 hours for one BM, and also requires the presence of a special crane and equipment. Unloading and installation of the equipment compartment during railway transportation require the same labor costs (3 hours) and the presence of a special crane.
13) The dimensions of the combat vehicle increase the labor costs for the engineering equipment of the launch position in comparison with other air defense systems of military air defense.
14) The time for transferring the complex from the traveling position to the combat position when using the "OES Mode" (with a thermal imager) exceeds the declared 5 minutes (actually 8-9 minutes).
15) The loading time of a full ammunition load using TZM is quite long and is 25-30 minutes.

[PLO]

this duck has been walking on the net for a long time
most of the points are completely unfounded, the veracity of the rest is highly doubtful

[UzRus]

Well, okay. But what then do not refute?

[PLO]

I remember at the time of the appearance of this article there was a lot of debate and its various analyzes and analyzes

and now the Arabs are happy to buy them and I do not think that they believe in the possibility of this complex in word

[UzRus]

As far as I know, the export version of the Shell is a somewhat castrated version for Russia.

[scripter]

Gomno this shell.
machine guns on it are generally ineffective on airborne weapons, only piston planes to shoot down or shoot at the rebels on the ground.
This test results showed.
They lobbied this product into service for kickbacks.

As for the radar and supersonic missiles, the Tor-M2 air defense system is much more effective.
In addition, it has higher cross-country ability (on caterpillar tracks), is smaller in size and is armored (including BC).
In most respects it is inferior to TOR-M2.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdWpIO7qZ0

[spirit]

come down against dushmans !!! I doubt that they have corrective shells !! Purely focused development. In general, I like Rheinmetall !! there is always a highlight!

[understudy]

Interesting thing. A kind of Lush fortified area.

[gregor6549]

People, why argue?

Go to the website of the manufacturer of this system and read about this system and its possible options. http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/a
ir_defence_systems / index.php

I believe that the "trick" of the system is in the "famous" Erlikon guns and no less "famous" German optics. All other bells and whistles (radars, additional rocket modules, chassis, etc.) are nothing special and have been known for a long time.

Those. if someone does something more or less not bad, he tries to sell it. And at the same time load their production facilities and hard workers. A completely understandable and normal business approach.

It is also not so easy to "counterproduce" this system from a swoop, since in addition to the radars that unmask it, it also uses a number of other sensors, including electronic-optical sensors, which is quite enough for a short-range air defense system. Moreover, the system is tied into a single information field with other air defense systems and therefore can receive data on the air and ground situation as well as target designation from the side, without unmasking itself with R / L radiation unnecessarily

[leon-iv]

By the way, and the cost of a volley is much cheaper than LCD, the protected object does not cost so much

[gregor6549]

This system is unlikely to be able to compete with the Iron Dome due to the frailty of radar detection systems, which are optimized in LCD for detecting small-sized targets such as "Grad" projectiles and the like and aiming missiles at these targets. Yes, and the SAMs themselves are also made for this class of targets.This same system and surveillance radar and guidance radar are clearly not designed for this class of targets

[Splin]

Good system. The principle of the best defense is implemented - this is an attack!

[Yankuz]

Good thing! But seemingly expensive, as a robotic-technical complex. But still, spending a bunch of cartridges is cheaper than a rocket ("shoot sparrows with a cannon")

[Kir]

I apologize for interfering, but the comparison of the "Shell" type versus MANTIS is incorrect, it's like comparing a bunker with a TANK, the assignments are different, that with regards to the laser, well, this is generally a controversial question, not only when will a reliable and tested version of the combat one appear, so there is another question about mass and size, coupled with power, in this regard, systems like MANTIS are more likely to have them in their composition than mobile ones.
And about the price, since it’s always been German that the equipment was expensive, the instrument, etc., etc., though the German quality was also famous, at least compare the WERA brand, and it’s not worth anything from the serial, the same as the English, though and they have no problems with steel, it was FAITH that they recommended to service their textile.

[Professor]

A combat laser in the air defense / missile defense system will appear in service very soon. Maybe I’ll write an article about Nautilus.
Regarding the price, after all, they are trying to compare not the shell and the German installation (the hedgehog is clear that the Shell is cheaper), but MANTIS with a laser. And without having the slightest idea - that is, a complete zero - about this laser installation.

PS
Note. On the manufacturer’s website MANTIS there is a variant of the complex on the chassis.

[Kir]

So I actually didn’t mean comparing something with something, but in general German, both quality and price for the product, you just didn’t understand that.
And as for the imminent appearance, wait and see, as we and the Yankees have long ago stated that, almost the other day, it seems like the laser’s effectiveness itself is not so obvious in comparison with the same plasma, and the measures themselves aimed at laser protection, something like they were not developed yesterday, I knew from the one who once worked before a union collapse in a certain organization !!!

[mox]

Great stuff. Thank you Professor.
Write more!

[Cat]

I remember, while writing this article, Mr. Professor was invited to mention the test results of ZAK MANTIS - where, how and what they shot about. But alas, there is only a mention that the system has been successfully tested, and nothing more.
It would be nice to talk about the USSR military-industrial complex with its notorious secrecy =) Rheinmetall, in theory, is profitable to present the system in a better light - for possible sales to interested parties, and it doesn’t smell of any secrets here, it doesn’t use any revolutionary technologies and solutions. Nevertheless, the specifics - zero, on the basis of which one can objectively compare Mantis with the same Shell or another which ZAK - is unclear. Outrage.

[Ferrum_34]

has the right to life, I think .... however, how will this system reflect a few volleys of GRAD or TENDER? I think nothing

[Bosk]

And an interesting idea .... we launch a couple of salvos from Grad in its direction .... and take them with your bare hands .... already they’ll sit next to each system and stand ready for a couple of trucks with shells ....

[Kaktyc]

Look straight from the toy which Towers Defense: D