Find Soviet aircraft carrier: submarine HMS Swiftsure and cruiser "Kyiv"

51
Find Soviet aircraft carrier: submarine HMS Swiftsure and cruiser "Kyiv"
Heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Kyiv", 1986. Photo by the US Department of Defense


During the years of the Cold War, a potential adversary in the person of the leading NATO countries carefully followed the development of the armed forces of the USSR, incl. naval fleet. When new ships appeared, they tried to study them by all available methods and draw conclusions. The heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Kyiv", accepted into the fleet in 1975, was no exception. To study its design and determine its capabilities, the Royal Navy of Great Britain conducted a complex and risky operation.



Subject of interest


At the end of the sixties, the USSR developed a project for the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "1143" or "Krechet". In the middle of 1970, the lead ship of this type, the Kiev, was laid down at the Black Sea Shipyard (Nikolaev). He was launched in the last days of 1972, and at the very end of 1975 he was accepted into the Navy. The following year, the ship arrived in Severomorsk and began service with the Northern Fleet.

The development and construction of the first Soviet heavy aircraft carrier with aircraft on board did not go unnoticed abroad. The probable adversary tried to get any available information about the 1143 project and about the Kyiv under construction. To this end, the United States, Great Britain and other countries used various means and approaches.

So, NATO ships and planes, when a Soviet aircraft carrier entered the sea, tried to follow it and record movements and maneuvers. In addition, when possible, photographs were taken and filmed. All this made it possible to see certain design features, determine approximate characteristics, etc.


Submarine HMS Swiftsure. Photo by Globalsecurity.org

However, some of the most interesting information remained inaccessible. In particular, the potential enemy did not have the opportunity to study the underwater part of the ship, as well as to make high-quality recordings of the noise it made. Such materials would make it possible to draw some conclusions, and would also help in the further development of submarine forces and in the training of sailors.

Underwater operation


The CVMF of Great Britain undertook to solve the new task of reconnaissance and extract important data. An operation plan was worked out with the involvement of one of the newest nuclear submarines. She had to find the Soviet cruiser "Kyiv" in the sea, approach it at a minimum distance and make the necessary records.

The opportunity to conduct such an operation appeared in April 1977. In the middle of the month, ships and aviation The Northern Fleet of the USSR Navy participated in the major exercises "North-77". They had to work out the solution of combat and other tasks, as well as test their interaction skills. Against the backdrop of these events, the British CVMF began its operation.

At the time of the Soviet exercises, the British nuclear submarine HMS Swiftsure (S126) of the same project was in the Barents Sea. In this regard, the crew under the command of Captain John Speller was ordered to find the Soviet TAVKR and collect the necessary data.


Helmsman in the center post of the Swiftshur. Photo by the British Ministry of Defense

It was assumed that "Swiftshur" will cope with such a task. This boat was the head hull of the project of the same name and was laid down in 1969. It was accepted into the combat strength of the KVMF in 1973. The nuclear submarine was intended to patrol in different areas of the oceans and search for ships and submarines of a potential enemy. The Swiftsure project used new technical solutions and modern equipment, which was supposed to increase the efficiency of the search and use of weapons.

A few meters


According to British sources, the crew of the submarine managed to detect a Soviet ship detachment led by the Kiev aircraft carrier. Using all the capabilities of their ship, the British submariners went to the wake of the detachment and began a covert pursuit.

Over the next few hours, HMS Swiftsure (S126) moved behind the ships and gradually closed the gap. At the same time, the submarine had to keep clearly behind the warrant in order to remain in the dead zone of the ship's sonar systems. In addition, the optimal speed was maintained, which made it possible to catch up with the ships, but without causing excessive noise.

As a result, the submariners managed to catch up with the Kyiv TAVKR and find themselves practically under it, and it was possible to start collecting information. However, serious risks arose at this stage. The crew of Swiftsure had to carefully monitor the movement and maneuvers of the cruiser. Due to the minimum distance to the ship, a collision could occur at any moment. A ship with a total displacement of 41 thousand tons could easily fatally damage and sink a nuclear submarine with a displacement of 4,9 thousand tons.


Underwater part of "Kyiv", filmed through the Swiftsure periscope. The picture quality leaves much to be desired. Photo by the British Ministry of Defense / Thedrive.com

However, the problem was solved. The acoustics of the Swiftshur made the necessary noise recordings - in almost ideal conditions, without interference from other ships. In addition, several photographs of the underwater part of the aircraft-carrying cruiser were taken through the periscope. Fragments of the bottom, propellers and shafts got into the lens. However, the quality of images taken at a depth of about 7-9 m leaves much to be desired.

After completing filming and recording, Swiftsure slowed down and fell behind the Soviet squad. The withdrawal was also carried out in the dead zone and under the cover of the wake and took some time. After collecting data and solving other problems in the northern seas, the submarine returned to its base in the UK.

Results and questions


For obvious reasons, the operation to track the Kyiv TAVKR was secret. The very fact of its implementation and the results of exploration remained a secret for a long time. Only in the recent past were the main data and memories of the participants from the British side published.

According to known data, the recording of noise made it possible to clarify some characteristics of the aircraft-carrying cruiser. In addition, she helped further the development of British and foreign sonar systems, as well as submarines and their weapons.


Underwater elements of the ship. Photo by the British Ministry of Defense / Thedrive.com

According to the memoirs of British submariners, the whole "chase" for the aircraft carrier went smoothly. HMS Swiftsure (S126) did not unmask itself and was not detected by the Soviet anti-submarine defense. However, there are references to the contrary. So, according to some sources, Soviet hydroacoustics nevertheless discovered the submarine and maintained contact for some time. For obvious reasons, they did not attack her or take other risky actions.

In addition, the entire story generally. The arguments against it are quite simple. With typical options for organizing a warrant, it is almost impossible to approach an aircraft-carrying cruiser under water. In addition, the published pictures of the underwater part of the "Kyiv" raise questions: the configuration of propellers, shafts, etc. does not quite coincide with the known images and diagrams of the ship.

Apparently, the Swiftshore nuclear submarine was indeed able to find the Soviet naval detachment during the exercises and get closer to it. They could also conduct surveillance and collect this or that information, up to the noise signatures of specific ships. At the same time, it cannot be ruled out that the well-known stories and memories of this operation are partially untrue, and there is some element of fiction or stories in them.

However, the penetration of a submarine into the center of someone else's ship order is not impossible. Soviet submariners also did this, and their “target” was the aircraft carriers of the US Navy, which always had good ship and anti-submarine cover. It was shown that with the competent actions of the crew and with a certain amount of luck, even such a defense can be overcome.


One of the aircraft carrier's propellers. Photo by the British Ministry of Defense / Thedrive.com

Distant past


The submarine HMS Swiftsure (S126) continued to serve until 1992. After that, she was withdrawn from the combat strength of the KVMF due to damage to the nuclear power plant and a significant depletion of the resource. The decommissioned ship was laid up, where it remained for many years awaiting disposal.

The first Soviet TAVKR "Kyiv" continued full-fledged service and went to sea until the end of 1991. After the next return from the campaign, his future fate was in question. Due to lack of funding and general problems of the fleet, in 1993 the cruiser was decommissioned. Subsequently, it was sold to a private organization, and in 2000 the ship was towed to China to be rebuilt into a museum. Later it was converted into an unusual hotel.

The Soviet and British ships ended their service long ago and were decommissioned. However, they left a mark on the history of their fleets, and also influenced their development to one degree or another. In addition, in their "biography" there was a common episode showing the specifics of the interaction of the navies of opponents in the Cold War.
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  1. +11
    April 8 2023 06: 22
    They also often flew to photograph the Amer Enterprise. But often it didn't work. Their Phantoms took off from an aircraft carrier, and one covered our camera with itself, while the other flew nearby and waved to us.
    They stopped sending us, they started flying TU-16s. Their rate of climb is much greater than ours, and they managed to photograph the aircraft carrier.
    ps. Once I asked either the navigator or the commander a question.
    Why take pictures of him so often?
    - The codebreakers note all the changes in its design - he replied.
    1. +6
      April 8 2023 07: 03
      Quote: your vsr 66-67
      They also often flew to photograph the Amer Enterprise

      What did you fly?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +10
        April 8 2023 12: 03
        On AN-12. It was a long time ago, 67-68 g
        The text of your comment-----_+
        1. -2
          April 8 2023 12: 44
          Quote: your vsr 66-67
          On AN-12. It was a long time ago, 67-68 g
          Photo reconnaissance based on the An-12? .. Well, let's just say something like that
          An-12B "Kubrick" - the aircraft for the study of infrared radiation of surface, ground and air targets. Made in 1969 year.
          The year doesn't match. And yes, it is a very rare specimen. If you wish, you can find out who, when and where flew on this plane. Such "ochuchenie" another Ivan Evgrafovich. I flipped through some literature. I did not find a single mention of the use of the An-12 in photographing the aircraft carrier "Enterpraz". Yes, and the An-12, in addition to the main task, transportation, was used as an electronic warfare aircraft or jammer ... But I never found it as an aircraft carrier interceptor. Can you tell me what kind of regiment it was, or at least where it was, which specialized in tracking and photographing US Navy aircraft carriers flying on the An-12?
          Quote: Mister X
          They stopped sending us, they started flying TU-16s. Their rate of climb is much greater than ours, and they managed to photograph the aircraft carrier.

          The question is, what does the rate of climb have to do with it?
          1. 0
            April 8 2023 16: 18
            Quote: Fitter65
            The question is, what does the rate of climb have to do with it?

            To abruptly go to the top after the Phantom closed the lenses, and still take photographs of the aircraft carrier. Until the Phantom reacts, several photos will be received.
            1. -2
              April 8 2023 17: 40
              Quote: bayard
              To abruptly go to the top after the Phantom closed the lenses, and still take photographs of the aircraft carrier. While the Phantom reacts, several photos will be received

              Before you write such nonsense, you would try to think at least once. Sharply leaving upwards, the horizontal axis of the aircraft changes its angle to the horizon, respectively, the AFA fixed in the fuselage also begin to look at a different point, and not at the aircraft carrier. Read what operations the photo reconnaissance aircraft must do before starting the mission. I just don't even want to laugh at your nonsense.
              Read for general development what is Aerial Photography
              .Scheduled aerial photography - is performed when deviating from the horizon at angles of 1,5 - 5,0. Horizontal aerial photography is performed when the negative plane is parallel to the horizon. If the negative is deflected at angles greater than 10, oblique (perspective) aerial photography is obtained.
            2. -3
              April 9 2023 19: 20
              Quote: bayard
              Quote: Fitter65
              The question is, what does the rate of climb have to do with it?

              To abruptly go to the top after the Phantom closed the lenses, and still take photographs of the aircraft carrier. Until the Phantom reacts, several photos will be received.

              Almost everything is like that. As they said, the TU-16 was approaching the aircraft carrier at low altitude, and the fighters could not take a place under its photo hatch for fear of colliding with water. At some distance from the vessel, the TU-16 rapidly gained altitude and managed to take pictures while the fighter took its place under the photo hatch. Our aircraft did not have such a rate of climb.
              ps. In the 60s there was such a concept, to fly at low altitudes. Even we, on our ANs, flew at altitudes of 50-100 m above land, and 20-30 m above the Amur. The spectacle is certainly interesting, but the parachutes were not fastened laughing . It was useless
              1. +1
                April 10 2023 17: 16
                Quote: your vsr 66-67
                . In the 60s there was such a concept, to fly at low altitudes. Even we, on our ANs, flew at altitudes of 50-100 m above land, and 20-30 m above the Amur.

                About over the Amur in more detail ... Where did you fly over the Amur at an altitude of 60-20 meters in the 30s? From Khabarovsk to Komsomolsk? Or to Nikolaevsk? You don't need to turn on the bug here. Let's start with the fact that the An-12s were based in the KDVO at the Bolshoi Airfield, purely maintenance of the Air Force and Air Defense units. The Air Force has the call sign "Chaika" and the air defense "STAL". Hollow, before you write such nonsense, you would at least find out what, who, where, whom and how ... He went to the An-12 to intercept an aircraft carrier. To lie like drawing zigzags in the snow ... Over the Amur, he walked on the An-12 at 20-30 meters, Damn attack pilot. Whip ... At best, at the Bolshoi (if he served in the Air Force), I wiped the racks with a cloth on the An-12 if I was lucky. And so, the take-off sweeper from ABATO. Well, you're a faggot. Okay, I’m there with Color Orientation-Signal AB. I got fooled, we didn’t have them .... And this miracle pours in here laughing And he photographed aircraft carriers, and they threw FOTAB. !!! laughing laughing laughing laughing FALSE!!!! Really insanity grew stronger !!!!
      3. +1
        29 June 2023 13: 23
        Even with the optical zoom of the periscope, the boat should go 20-30 meters from the stern of the cruiser, judging by the photographs. It's almost point blank... I can't believe it!!!! No nuclear submarine commander would take such risks to record cruiser noises. Yes, ship noises were necessarily recorded and collected in hydroacoustic databases for learning recognition at sea. But it has always been sufficient to make these recordings at a safe distance, without the risk of collision.
    2. 0
      April 8 2023 10: 10
      Decoders note all changes in its design


      And what do decoders understand in the design of a modern ship. As far as I know, their task is to work with the ciphers of a potential enemy, and not to look under a microscope at the design of a new beam crane last Friday installed under the Enterprise's flight deck.
      1. +10
        April 8 2023 11: 52
        And what do decoders understand in the design of a modern ship.
        Nikolai used an unfortunate term, experts in this case made assumptions about the presence of this or that equipment that you cannot put inside - the same antennas, for example. In the years of my youth, our head of the department, based on several photographs of the appearance of an American air intake, once gave the task to evaluate the thrust of the engine. A photo of the throat is also attached. It is clear that this is not the case described in the article.
        1. +3
          April 8 2023 12: 07
          Quote: Aviator_
          And what do decoders understand in the design of a modern ship.
          Nikolai used an unfortunate term, experts in this case made assumptions about the presence of this or that equipment that you cannot put inside - the same antennas, for example. In the years of my youth, our head of the department, based on several photographs of the appearance of an American air intake, once gave the task to evaluate the thrust of the engine. A photo of the throat is also attached. It is clear that this is not the case described in the article.

          You are probably right! Firstly, many years have passed, and secondly, who was I? air gunner lol
        2. 0
          April 8 2023 12: 47
          Quote: Aviator_
          Nicholas used the wrong term

          Nikolai, in addition to an unsuccessful term, also brought an unsuccessful type of aircraft. Which type flew for aircraft carriers ..
      2. -3
        April 8 2023 12: 05
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Decoders note all changes in its design


        And what do decoders understand in the design of a modern ship. As far as I know, their task is to work with the ciphers of a potential enemy, and not to look under a microscope at the design of a new beam crane last Friday installed under the Enterprise's flight deck.

        I don't know all the details! As explained to me, he said so. Maybe there were special decryptors laughing
        1. -3
          April 8 2023 12: 52
          Quote: your vsr 66-67
          Maybe there were special decryptors

          What camera did you take pictures with? "Zenith" or "FED"? And on what film? Svema, Tasma, what about the type TsND32, FN65? Just by knowing such details, you can learn about the features of specific decryptors to find out what they basically decrypted. laughing laughing laughing
          1. +7
            April 8 2023 15: 54
            Quote: Fitter65
            Quote: your vsr 66-67
            Maybe there were special decryptors

            What camera did you take pictures with? "Zenith" or "FED"? And on what film? Svema, Tasma, what about the type TsND32, FN65? Just by knowing such details, you can learn about the features of specific decryptors to find out what they basically decrypted. laughing laughing laughing

            Imagine not a zenith and not a fad. If you don't know, I'll explain. In the rear fuselage, in front of the gunner's cockpit, a camera was installed (I don't know the brand) with a film, but not the same as at the zenith, but wide, the width of the film was about 250-300 mm. The camera was controlled by the navigator remotely! In the same place, in the tail section, both fotabs and tsosabs were hung.
            Now laugh, preferably at yourself!
            1. -1
              April 8 2023 17: 01
              Quote: your vsr 66-67
              Now laugh, preferably at yourself!

              Why do I have to laugh at myself, I can calmly laugh at various nonsense about how "I stormed the An-12 Enterprise as a gunner-radio operator" laugh. Rather, according to
              Quote: Mister X
              What did you fly?

              Quote: your vsr 66-67
              On AN-12. It was a long time ago, 67-68 g

              Quote: your vsr 66-67
              The camera was controlled by the navigator remotely! In the same place, in the tail section, both fotabs and tsosabs were hung.

              If it's not a secret, then where did the An-12 have AFA in the tail section.


              If anything, this is the place of the radio operator's gunner on the An-12.

              So to speak, the tail section.
              And this is the AN-12. And where were FOTAB and OSAB hung here? If something such a "product" as TsOSAB in the register of ammunition used in the Air Force of the USSR and the Russian Federation was not and is not. Of course, I understand that age, one honored pilot 30 years ago told how he lifted He100 into the air and dropped the first atomic bomb in the USSR from an airplane, although it was all done by other people, but ... I understand senile insanity - it is so groovy. Yes, and such a question remained open in which region did you fly, where was your An-12 based?
              1. +1
                April 9 2023 10: 39
                Quote: Fitter65
                Quote: your vsr 66-67
                Now laugh, preferably at yourself!

                Why do I have to laugh at myself, I can calmly laugh at various nonsense about how "I stormed the An-12 Enterprise as a gunner-radio operator" laugh. Rather, according to
                Quote: Mister X
                What did you fly?

                Quote: your vsr 66-67
                On AN-12. It was a long time ago, 67-68 g

                Quote: your vsr 66-67
                The camera was controlled by the navigator remotely! In the same place, in the tail section, both fotabs and tsosabs were hung.

                If it's not a secret, then where did the An-12 have AFA in the tail section.


                If anything, this is the place of the radio operator's gunner on the An-12.

                So to speak, the tail section.
                And this is the AN-12. And where were FOTAB and OSAB hung here? If something such a "product" as TsOSAB in the register of ammunition used in the Air Force of the USSR and the Russian Federation was not and is not. Of course, I understand that age, one honored pilot 30 years ago told how he lifted He100 into the air and dropped the first atomic bomb in the USSR from an airplane, although it was all done by other people, but ... I understand senile insanity - it is so groovy. Yes, and such a question remained open in which region did you fly, where was your An-12 based?

                laughing laughing laughing . Firstly, there is no gunner-radio operator on the AN-12! There is a radio operator, he works in the front cockpit, behind the right pilot, and there is senior air gunner, it is in the tail cockpit!
                And if you do not know such elementary questions, then what can we talk about further? hi
                1. +1
                  April 9 2023 14: 44
                  Quote: your vsr 66-67
                  And if you do not know such elementary questions, then what can we talk about further?

                  An elementary question to which you did not answer - where did the An-12 fly from to photograph aircraft carriers? Well, about where the AFA was in the transport An-12, I think it’s completely useless to ask you.
                  Quote: your vsr 66-67
                  there is a senior air gunner,

                  He is a senior, or just an air gunner, it makes no difference to me. There were An-12s on which they were not at all. But this is not so important. Please tell me, senior air gunner, how and where your military transport An-12 photographed the Enterprise. It's just interesting for general development. Somehow in such publications not a single line is written about this epoch-making event.
                  But it should. So if it's not difficult, describe in more detail when and where you intercepted US aircraft carriers. At least when and over what ocean. The sea can be omitted.
              2. -3
                April 9 2023 19: 58
                Quote: Fitter65
                Quote: your vsr 66-67
                Now laugh, preferably at yourself!

                Why do I have to laugh at myself, I can calmly laugh at various nonsense about how "I stormed the An-12 Enterprise as a gunner-radio operator" laugh. Rather, according to
                Quote: Mister X
                What did you fly?

                Quote: your vsr 66-67
                On AN-12. It was a long time ago, 67-68 g

                Quote: your vsr 66-67
                The camera was controlled by the navigator remotely! In the same place, in the tail section, both fotabs and tsosabs were hung.

                If it's not a secret, then where did the An-12 have AFA in the tail section.


                If anything, this is the place of the radio operator's gunner on the An-12.

                So to speak, the tail section.
                And this is the AN-12. And where were FOTAB and OSAB hung here? If something such a "product" as TsOSAB in the register of ammunition used in the Air Force of the USSR and the Russian Federation was not and is not. Of course, I understand that age, one honored pilot 30 years ago told how he lifted He100 into the air and dropped the first atomic bomb in the USSR from an airplane, although it was all done by other people, but ... I understand senile insanity - it is so groovy. Yes, and such a question remained open in which region did you fly, where was your An-12 based?

                Well, what can you discuss with you? You know absolutely NOTHING about aviation in general and about the VTA in particular! Well, rummaged through the Internet, copied a photo of the aircraft, found registers of used ammunition, and that's where your knowledge ended!
                Answer me, how does heavy equipment leave the plane? For what? How is this technique attached to the aircraft? Why does a flight engineer (we called them a flight electrician) have a decent cleaver on his belt? Probably paratroopers to customize? laughing
                Google is our everything! laughing . Or do you use Yandex? laughing
                1. +3
                  April 9 2023 23: 49
                  Quote: your vsr 66-67
                  Google is our everything! . Or do you use Yandex?

                  Served in the Air Force for 32 years. The truth is not WTA. I didn’t ask you why the flight engineer has a cleaver on his belt. I asked you in which ocean did you fly to photograph aircraft carriers on a VTA plane? Feel the difference?
                2. +2
                  April 10 2023 12: 12
                  Quote: your vsr 66-67
                  Answer me, how does heavy equipment leave the plane? For what? How is this technique attached to the aircraft?

                  Google on the Internet there is a description of the entire procedure for landing various equipment from the An-12 aircraft. But you still haven't answered my question. Over what seas-oceans did your An-12 transport photograph American aircraft carriers. If I suggest anything, some An-12BKs were equipped with PLANNED AFAs, which were installed on the left side of the rear flap of the cargo hatch. Again, I explain that SOME, not all.
                  By the nature of my service, I had to fly in the An-12, and for the first time I flew in the An-12BSh from Legnica to Klyuchevo, and unload and load the planes that arrived to us. This is how it looked like
                  So in these An-12s (without letters) there was no AFA. By the way, if you went into the cockpit of the SENIOR air gunner, you would pass him, because you didn’t get there through the emergency hatch, did you? laughing And they would immediately tell where, what and how. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Over what water area (ocean, sea, lake) did you fly on a BTA aircraft to photograph US aircraft carriers?
                  1. +3
                    April 11 2023 22: 19
                    It's funny that you get downvoted, despite the fact that the person does not answer a very specific question that has already been asked several times. Grandpa forgot to take his pills
                    1. +3
                      April 12 2023 00: 08
                      Quote: LastPS
                      It's funny that you get downvoted, despite the fact that the person does not answer a very specific question that has already been asked several times. Grandpa forgot to take his pills

                      laughing laughing laughing Most likely it is. And judging by his posts, he heard the ringing but did not know where he was, at best, a runway sweeper from the airfield company. laughing laughing laughing
        2. +9
          April 8 2023 14: 10
          There is also such a position - decoders of photographs.
          1. +3
            April 8 2023 17: 12
            Quote: stankow
            There is also such a position - decoders of photographs.

            THIS is more correct
            Interpretation of photographs - identification and determination of the number and nature of certain objects by their images in photographs taken when photographing from an aircraft or from the ground at a considerable distance
            1. +1
              April 9 2023 00: 20
              THIS is more correct

              Shashechki you or go?
              1. -3
                April 9 2023 10: 42
                Quote: SergioPetrov
                THIS is more correct

                Shashechki you or go?

                Probably checkers... laughing
                1. +1
                  April 9 2023 14: 21
                  Quote: your vsr 66-67
                  Quote: SergioPetrov
                  THIS is more correct

                  Shashechki you or go?

                  Probably checkers... laughing
                  And a camera with tsosab.
              2. 0
                April 9 2023 14: 20
                Quote: SergioPetrov
                THIS is more correct

                Shashechki you or go?

                Thank you, but why do I need to use the elevator on the first floor?...
          2. 0
            April 9 2023 12: 12
            Quote: stankow
            There is also such a position - decoders of photographs.

            At our regimental headquarters, they had their own laboratory, and a secret one at that! Entrance is forbidden, and always closed!
            1. +2
              April 9 2023 15: 38
              Quote: your vsr 66-67
              At our regimental headquarters, they had their own laboratory, and a secret one at that! Entrance is forbidden, and always closed!

              You won’t believe it, but we also had this at the headquarters of the division ...
              1. -2
                April 9 2023 19: 11
                Just by knowing such details, you can learn about the features of specific decryptors to find out what they basically decrypted.

                Are these your words? And now about the headquarters of the division? ..... laughing
                1. +3
                  April 10 2023 16: 46
                  Quote: your vsr 66-67
                  Just by knowing such details, you can learn about the features of specific decryptors to find out what they basically decrypted.

                  The rut of a drunken gray gelding.
                  Quote: your vsr 66-67
                  Are these your words? And now about the headquarters of the division? ..

                  Absolutely not mine. Thank God I do not suffer from insanity and verbiage so far. And what about the headquarters of the division? At what plan ? And for what purpose are you interested? ... You still haven’t answered the question in what area of ​​the world ocean did you photograph the Enterprise aircraft carrier on a military transport aircraft of the An-12 type?
                  1. 0
                    2 December 2023 19: 32
                    Well, in peacetime, AN can fly up and take a photo of the aircraft carrier. The military guards will shoot him down 800 km away
      3. +3
        April 10 2023 17: 21
        Quote: Sea Cat
        As far as I know, their task is to work with the ciphers of a potential enemy, and not to look under a microscope at the design of a new beam crane last Friday installed under the Enterprise's flight deck.

        There, the image is being decoded, for example, the F-14A appeared on the Enterprise (actually the first aircraft carrier that received them), well, ours would like to get their photo. And there the Tu-16 worked very interestingly, and the gunners-radio operators, together with the commanders of the firing installations, took pictures from hand-held cameras ... True, this was already somewhere in the early 1970s.
    3. 0
      29 August 2023 16: 37
      Quote: your vsr 66-67
      They also often flew to photograph the Amer Enterprise. But often it didn't work. Their Phantoms took off from an aircraft carrier, and one covered our camera with itself, while the other flew nearby and waved to us.
      They stopped sending us, they started flying TU-16s. Their rate of climb is much greater than ours, and they managed to photograph the aircraft carrier.
      ps. Once I asked either the navigator or the commander a question.
      Why take pictures of him so often?
      - The codebreakers note all the changes in its design - he replied.

      The design cannot be changed even in a month. It is logical to take a picture when leaving the dock
  2. +5
    April 8 2023 07: 09
    Of course, there are questions, but in the photo it’s like a screw and when you turn “suddenly” to the right, the nuclear submarine periscope may have trouble. As they say with the “word”, there is no demand. The ship is almost like a car on the road, but there are some nuances.
    The ship at the beginning of the turn falls out in the opposite direction astern.
    1. +2
      April 8 2023 11: 44
      The ship at the beginning of the turn falls out in the opposite direction astern.
      Quite right, there is a moment of force about the vertical axis from the steering device.
    2. Eug
      +6
      April 8 2023 13: 11
      On trams, buses and trolleybuses, the inscription "lateral offset-1 meter" is often written on the back. And what a "takeaway" the ship has - definitely rather big. I read somewhere that the radius of circulation, in addition to speed, depends on the geometry of the underwater contours of the ship (for a minimum radius of circulation, the cut along the waterline should be as close to a square as possible). This is true?
    3. ada
      +1
      April 13 2023 05: 23
      The picture is too "pessimistic" laughing
      In "Krechetov", with their significant displacement and dimensions, despite the flat bottom, rather sharp contours of the extremities, they should enter the circulation smoothly and the extension is probably insignificant, and the shift or reverse displacement at the beginning of evolution is not more than the usual half-width of the hull. Well, if at full speed turn with a "skid", then the boat would have blown away - four propellers!

      This, of course, is not "Kyiv", but a later cruiser and the hull is more perfect, but the beginning of the turn is clear. Flies!
  3. +8
    April 8 2023 07: 27
    I remember during gatherings over a glass of tea with the guys from Zyabrovka ... they told how one navigator photographed an American ship. When the phantoms closed the hatches with the camera... he photographed the object with an ordinary camera through his seat. Hours for this was awarded!
  4. +4
    April 8 2023 10: 41
    However, the penetration of a submarine into the center of someone else's ship order is not impossible. Soviet submariners also did this, and their “target” was the aircraft carriers of the US Navy, which always had good ship and anti-submarine cover. It was shown that with the competent actions of the crew and with a certain amount of luck, even such a defense can be overcome.
    Cyril agrees with your words, but there is, but. How could it be without him. Absolutely all breakouts inside the order took place at low speed, or even on the stop. Bad weather conditions were used. Moreover, the construction of an order does not leave dead zones of the accompanying ship, especially in the days of the USSR and the latest ship of this class.
  5. +1
    April 8 2023 14: 15
    heavy aircraft carrier? rukalitso, my God, for what???!!!
    1. 0
      April 9 2023 00: 23
      Heavy aircraft carrier - an aircraft carrier armed with 70-100 aircraft. After the Second World War, the line aircraft carrier and the high-speed aircraft carrier merged with the classes.
  6. +18
    April 8 2023 15: 11
    In 1977, from April 14 to April 22, a detachment of ships as part of the TAVKR "Kiev", BOD "Admiral Nakhimov", "Marshal Timoshenko", "Admiral Isakov", "Smyshlenny" took part in the command-staff exercises "North-77" and exercises for air defense of the fleet "Relay-77" under the leadership of the Civil Code of the Navy.
    During these exercises, a detachment of ships and the tanker "Genrikh Hasanov" made a trip to the Lofoten Islands in difficult weather conditions.

    April, Norwegian Sea, water temperature +4,1 * C, air temperature - 5,0 * C ... Often stormy weather ... Under such conditions, the Norwegian current along the coast at a depth of 50-100m with a salinity of 35 ** bends the beam GAK down is not worse than weights on ... As the commander of the GAG ​​said - "at half past six!"
    I think Swiftshur did not chase, but simply waited in the search strip when our KPUG "run over" him ... This is the time.
    Secondly, the squadron course was assigned 18,0 knots, as the most economical for the TAKR. Swiftshur, on the other hand, had the most low-noise underwater speed - 12 (!) Knots. He simply could not "unnoticed" sneak up on the main goal: the anti-submarine warrant is circular! From one PLC you can hide in the "shadow", and the rest hear you on 18+ nodes ... like "good morning!".
    Thirdly, it is very doubtful that the images of the underwater part of the aircraft carrier are presented. I stood in the Sevastopol dock and remember very well how the bulb of the Orion, the propeller-steering group, and the stem of the TAKR looked like ... They are definitely not the same as shown in the photo.
    Fourthly, a photo of the screw - static, not rotating, because there are no accompanying swirls of water (bubbles, etc.), the picture is not blurry (during rotation! This is always the case), the “burdocks” are of the wrong configuration: these are the blades of a “high-speed” and not a “power” profile, which were in Kiev.
    Most likely, this is a fraud in order to discredit the service of the KSF PLB.
    IMHO.
    1. ada
      +2
      April 13 2023 05: 51
      Maybe not "Kyiv". In terms of the speed of the warrant, there may have been a period with a shorter one if they went with support vessels or in the rendezvous area with them. We, with joint maneuvering, with a possible full speed of 14 knots, were usually assigned 12 - 10 knots, or at the slowest speed.
      And, they published it for sure to "pinch".
      1. ada
        +1
        April 13 2023 06: 05
        Here, I found:

        "Drozd", "Chilikin", "Kyiv" and "Restrained". Stroke 14 knots (from the text of the discussion).
  7. +4
    April 8 2023 19: 08
    On the issue of interaction during the Cold War, using the example of the cruiser "Kiev", we can say that the photos of the propeller-steering group could have been taken from some Soviet dry cargo ship passing near the cruiser, but recording a sound signature is quite possible. Domestic sailors did not sink or otherwise affect the submarine. Swim, but don't get too close! And the British, in turn, without tempting fate, walked side by side and only recorded the sound background. Everyone was satisfied and there was no conflict over a couple of photos on level ground (or on level ground). Fanaticism is sometimes superfluous wink good drinks
  8. -1
    29 August 2023 17: 19
    I remember in the 50s the Angles tried to see the Sverdlov’s rudders during Khrushchev’s visit to England. It seems like they later found their cut diver
  9. 0
    8 September 2023 09: 38
    Quote: your vsr 66-67
    They also often flew to photograph the Amer Enterprise. But often it didn't work. Their Phantoms took off from an aircraft carrier, and one covered our camera with itself, while the other flew nearby and waved to us.
    They stopped sending us, they started flying TU-16s. Their rate of climb is much greater than ours, and they managed to photograph the aircraft carrier.
    ps. Once I asked either the navigator or the commander a question.
    Why take pictures of him so often?
    - The codebreakers note all the changes in its design - he replied.

    Isn't it an An-8 by any chance? And why is it so difficult? It would be possible to use Manual AFA. 41 and 42 are usually motionless and all these manipulations are not entirely probable