Revolutionary development of the firing technique of the English fleet at the turn of XIX–XX

47
Revolutionary development of the firing technique of the English fleet at the turn of XIX–XX


Shooting from naval guns at the end of XIX


In the second half of the 1890th century, naval artillery experienced a period of rapid development. In the XNUMXs, the leading maritime powers were already armed with powerful and accurate guns that, in theory, could successfully hit targets at a distance of several kilometers. However, in practice, effective shooting at sea was hampered by two unresolved issues.



Distance is the first question. The existing goniometers did not have the necessary accuracy and, moreover, could not be used in all conditions. A more accurate way to determine the distance was sighting. But then a second unresolved issue arose, which prevented both shooting and shooting to kill - shooting on the roll.

The gunner needed to catch the moment when the line of sight coincides with the target, and fire a shot. An error of 0,1 seconds could cause the projectile to pass 10 meters above or below a target at a distance of 1 km. Considering that the reaction time of a person ranged from 0,4 to 0,8 seconds and was not constant, the ability to shoot accurately was considered to be navy the highest skill, and shooting at a distance of more than 1 km - empty throwing of shells.

In the English Navy, the attitude towards artillery had its own specifics. At the end of the XNUMXth century, purity and brilliance became almost an object of worship. For the commander, the highest achievement was the best polish of his ship for the parade on the Spithead roadstead.

Shooting from cannons was perceived as the worst enemy of beauty and order on the ship: after it, cleaning, cleaning, painting and even minor repairs were inevitably required. Artillery exercises were carried out purely formally, and no one was interested in how many shells hit the target. A more important occupation for artillery officers was considered to be polishing their household.

Percy Scott - Pioneer in Naval Artillery


The situation suddenly changed in 1898–1899. thanks to two events.

First, there was the Battle of Santiago between the American and Spanish squadrons, in which the low skills of the Spanish gunners became one of the main reasons for the defeat.

Secondly, the outstanding results of the prize firing of the 120-mm guns of the modest 2nd class cruiser Scylla under the command of Percy Scott became known: 80% even in the presence of a slight swell. Whereas the average for the fleet was only 31,1% of hits.


Percy Scott

The British Admiralty paid attention to the level of training of gunners, and from 1899 began to allocate large sums for the prize fund to the gunners who showed the best results in prize shooting. Firing results reports were now published annually. All England knew the best squadrons, the best ships and the best gunners. Excellent results in shooting have now become the basis for an extraordinary promotion.

The secret of Percy Scott's achievements was the use of innovation, both in shooting itself and in the process of training. To improve the accuracy of pointing, he introduced optical sights of his own design. For more accurate shooting in rough conditions - a method of continuous aiming, involving the constant presence of the target in the sight. To train gunners, Percy Scott invented a dotter, a special simulator that simulates shooting, taking into account the excitement and movement of the target. For frequent training without the use of expensive shots, barrels were used - rifles fixed in the barrel of guns. Regular shooting developed the skills of accurate and fast shooting among the gunners.


Optical sight designed by Percy Scott

In 1899, Percy Scott was appointed commander of the newest 1st class cruiser Terrible, which went to China. He successfully applied the progressive innovations tested on the Scylla on the new ship. At the 1900 prize shooting, after only a week of dotter training, the Terrible was 77% accurate, while the rest of the fleet was only 32,3%.

Percy Scott was constantly thinking about new improvements. To speed up the rate of fire, he came up with a machine for training loaders, repeating the design of the gun.

Percy Scott created a "preemption simulator" - an improved dotter. The training was carried out on the shore and gave the plutong commander practice in issuing orders to change the pickup, and the gunner - the skills to follow orders, simulating fire adjustments to observe the fall of shells.


lead simulator

Percy Scott upgraded the practice shield to withstand a large number of hits.


Training shield designed by Percy Scott

The commander-in-chief of the Chinese squadron, Admiral Edward Seymour, noted the successes of Percy Scott and introduced his methodology throughout his squadron.

The Admiralty was also interested in the progress and received recommendations from Percy Scott to improve the accuracy of the shooting. However, instead of accepting these recommendations throughout the fleet, they were sent for consideration to the artillery school to one of the junior officers ...

In 1901, Terrible demonstrated an accuracy of 80% in prize shooting. This achievement was noted throughout the English press. Percy Scott became famous all over the country.

At the same time, one of Percy Scott's students on the battleship Barfleur achieved an accuracy of 72% and thus proved the possibility of successfully introducing innovations on other ships.

The Admiralty again wrote to Percy Scott asking him to detail his methods for implementing them throughout the fleet. Percy Scott sent a lengthy response, but also noted that his previous recommendations were being ignored.

In 1902, the Terrible solemnly returned to England. Taking the opportunity, Percy Scott at the reception of King Edward VII read out a list of complaints:

1. Lack of attention to artillery on the part of the Admiralty Council.
2. Gloss on the ship influenced promotion much more than achievements in shooting.
3. Insufficient amount of artillery fire.
4. Inefficiency of existing sights.
5. The need to develop a competitive spirit in shooting.
6. The Admiralty hid the results of unsuccessful firing.


At the meeting of the House of Lords, the First Lord of the Admiralty, William Selborne, assured those present:

If I wanted to say to any admiral or captain what I think is the highest duty in sailor training, I would say: “Artillery! Artillery! Artillery!"

However, in practice, the admiralty actually sabotaged the introduction of innovations.

In 1903, Percy Scott took over England's largest artillery school at Portsmouth, where he introduced his training methods.

Long range shooting


Percy Scott's technique worked well at prize shooting distances of about 1 yards (500 m), when the gunner could clearly see the fall of his shells. However, at long distances, especially in foggy weather, the falling shells were not visible.

The issue of organizing firing at long distances was raised by officers of the Mediterranean Squadron, which, under the command of John Fisher, in 1899-1900. conducted shooting at a distance of 5 ... 000 yards (6 ... 000 m). The officers came to the conclusion that it was necessary to fire in volleys in order to clearly observe its results. In practice, firing in volleys turned out to be difficult for a number of reasons, ranging from the lack of effective means of communication for coordinating the moment of the shot to the large spread of shells fired from different guns.

The theory of long-range shooting was developed by Edward Hariding, one of the officers who participated in the firing of the Mediterranean fleet. He proposed the use of centralized fire control, that is, the firing of all guns according to uniform aiming parameters calculated in the conning tower.

The issue of a large spread of shells fired with the same aiming in one salvo was decided by Percy Scott. He did an experiment. Several guns were placed on the shore, pointed at one target and fired shots. The large spread has been preserved. Its cause was not pitching, as many officers thought, but the imperfection of gun sights!
Percy Scott asked the Admiralty to immediately replace sights in the entire fleet with more advanced ones, and this was done in 1905-1907.

In the spring of 1904, the Admiralty tested Edward Hariding's technique on firing practice for two ships at once: the Victories in the Canal squadron and the Venerable in the Mediterranean squadron. The 12-inch guns of the battleships could not use continuous aiming, since the existing mechanisms did not provide the necessary angular velocity along the vertical. I had to fire a shot at the moment the ship was at the top of the wave.

Based on the test results, it was concluded that at distances of more than 4 yards (000 m), firing from 3-inch guns is more effective than from 658-inch.

Firstly, 12-inch guns were more accurate, and secondly, at a high rate of fire, numerous bursts from 6-inch shells impede observation of the target. The maximum possible effective firing range was determined at 8 yards (000 m).

Further, taking into account the experience of the battle in the Yellow Sea in 1904, it was decided to create a new generation battleship, armed only with main caliber artillery - the Dreadnought.


Battleship Dreadnought

Implementation of the Percy Scott technique throughout the fleet and live firing 1905


It wasn't until John Fisher became First Lord of the Admiralty in 1904 that progressive gunnery training was introduced throughout the English navy. Percy Scott in 1905 was appointed to the specially created position of Inspector of Naval Ordnance. He was present at all the shootings of the fleet, reported on their results, and made suggestions for improvements. On ships that showed poor results, he conducted analyzes of the reasons for inadequate training.

Big changes in the rules for competitive shooting occurred in 1905: it was decided to shift the focus from prize shooting to live firing of ships. These changes were due to various reasons.

Firstly, the experience of the Russo-Japanese War demonstrated the importance of centralized control of artillery fire, and prize shooting honed only individual skills.

Secondly, earlier combat firing was not carried out according to a single methodology, respectively, it was impossible to compare their results.

Since 1905, Barr and Strouda rangefinders were used to determine the distance in live firing, the observation of falling shells was carried out from Mars, fire control was carried out centrally from the conning tower using electromechanical transmitters.

The target was a 30 x 90 foot (9,1 x 27,4 m) shield placed on a floating raft. The fire was fired at a speed of 15 knots from a distance of 6 yards (000 m) for 5 minutes.

In 1905, a unified methodology for assessing the accuracy of shooting was adopted. The result depended on the number of hits in the allotted time. Each hit achieved by a 12-inch projectile was multiplied by 134, and by a smaller caliber projectile by 82. Then the resulting amount was divided by the number of guns that took part in the shooting. According to the number of conditional points scored, it was possible to compare different ships.

The press published a diagram of hits on the shield by shells fired during the exercises by the battleship King Edward VII:

12-inch guns achieved 10 hits out of 11 shots (91%);
9,2-inch guns scored 15 hits out of 31 shots (48%);
6-inch guns scored 26 hits out of 71 shots (37%).
Total: 51 hits out of 113 shots (45%).


The scheme of hits in the shield shells "King Edward VII"

The best firing result in 1905 was shown by the flagship of the Exmouth Canal Squadron:

12-inch guns achieved 15 hits out of 16 shots (94%);
6-inch guns scored 49 hits out of 96 shots (51%).
Total: 64 hits out of 112 shots (57%).

However, Percy Scott was disappointed with the results of combat shooting in 1905, since, along with outstanding results, mediocre and even frankly disastrous results were demonstrated.


The results of combat firing in 1905

Commander training


In order to attract the most talented sailors to the artillery, the Admiralty decided to use additional incentives.

In 1905, special ranks were introduced for the lower ranks with special distinguishing marks and increased salaries:

• tower gunner,
• battery gunner,
• turret sight installer,
• battery gun sight installer,
• sailor gunner.


Applicants for new ranks had to take artillery courses and show satisfactory shooting results. There were so many who wanted to become a gunnery that strict entrance competitions had to be introduced. Not only the presence of physical disabilities or negative misdeeds in the past, but even a sloppy packed suitcase could serve as an obstacle to admission to artillery courses.

Training was conducted at naval artillery schools, the largest of which was located in Portsmouth and was designed for 150 officers and 1 sailors annually.

Competent sailors at least 21 years old, who had already served in the Navy for more than two years, were accepted for the courses of gunners. Before school, they had to complete a basic 25-day artillery course on their ships, which included training on a dotter, barrel shooting, and six live shots from 47-mm or 57-mm guns.

For training, old ships were used, on which modern small and medium-caliber rapid-fire guns, optical sights and fire control devices were installed.

Commander - the basic rank in artillery, who received it had to be able to perform all duties at the gun. For the replacement of the missing gunner, the gunner was entitled to an increase in salary.

To obtain the rank of gunner, it was required to complete a 50-day course.

pupils primarily studied the design of the gun, the mechanisms for feeding shells, the rules for caring for equipment. They developed the ability to quickly load the gun and maintain the pace for a long time.

The shooting course began with exercises on the dotter. The student developed the skills to hit the target at different speeds of its movement and the pitching of the ship.


Dotter training

The second stage - 50 shots with bullets from barrels at anchor from a short distance at a moving and swinging target. The future gunnery learned to correct hits, inform the sight installer of the correction: so much higher or lower, so much to the left or right.

The third stage - barrel firing from a 120-mm gunboat gun on the move along a steel bar from a distance of good visibility, that is, no more than 1,5 cables (278 m). Hitting a bullet in a rod is clearly audible. The student developed the skills to independently adjust the sight and rear sight when changing the heading angle to the target.


Scheme of installing a rifle in a gun barrel

The fourth stage - firing two series of 5 shots from a 120-mm gunboat gun at anchor at a shield measuring 6x8 feet (1,8x2,4 m) from a distance of 7 cables (1 m). The student mastered the observation of the flight of the projectile and the assessment of the magnitude of undershoot or overshoot.

Fifth stage - 10 shots from a 120-mm or 152-mm gunboat gun on the move at a speed of 12 knots against a shield 6x8 feet (1,8x2,4 m). The future gunnery learned to adjust the aiming according to the results of the falling shells.

If for some reason the gunnery did not practice shooting for three years, then he had to take a special course to restore his skills. Otherwise, he would lose his title.

The student who excelled in the gunner's course usually received an invitation to take the gunner's course.

The gunner's course repeated the same stages of shooting training as the gunner's course, but with significant differences. Firstly, a significantly larger number of shots were allotted for practice. Secondly, the training was carried out on a cruiser that had 152-mm guns, and not on a gunboat.

The best students received the title of gunner of battery guns, the rest, who successfully completed the course, received the title of installer of the sight of battery guns.

Gunners of battery guns, who showed excellent shooting results, were invited to the next course - gunners of turret guns, which differed significantly from the rest of the courses.

The first stage of training took place on the shore in a 12-inch tower, which was the same in design as on the battleships of the Formidable type. Shooting was carried out with rifle cartridges from barrels at swinging and moving shields.

Further, a similar exercise was performed on the Rivenge training battleship on the move from a 12-pounder (76-mm) gun mounted on the roof of the tower and having the same elevation angle as the tower guns. The gunner had to fire 30 shots from a distance of 3 cables (556 m).

The course ended with firing on the move from 13,5-inch guns at the shield from a distance of 8 ... 10 cables (1 ... 482 m).

In parallel, classes were held to study the design, operation and maintenance of guns, turrets and ammunition supply systems, including hydraulic equipment.

The effect of the introduction of new techniques in artillery


The introduction of new artillery techniques throughout the British Navy had a tremendous effect. The average accuracy of shooting at prize shooting in 1906 increased by more than one and a half times compared to the results of 1904!


Comparative result of prize firing of the English fleet

The ability of British naval gunners to shoot quickly and accurately became an important argument that the mistress of the seas could present in defense of her status.
47 comments
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  1. +11
    April 4 2023 04: 30
    Thanks to the author for the article, very interesting and informative!
    It is worth paying attention to how new teaching methods were introduced - through the rigidity of the "ceremonial" rules. But in just 10–15 years (which was very fast for that time), real results were not long in coming.
    There is something to think about in our time.
    1. +2
      April 4 2023 08: 28
      After 10 years at Jutland ... however, this did not help
      1. +4
        April 4 2023 11: 57
        There were already completely different shooting methods
  2. +5
    April 4 2023 04: 36
    Comparative result of prize firing of the English fleet

    With all due respect, Alexey, but in the reference book "Military Fleets 1909" this table is titled differently.

    Do not take it as a nitpick, dear colleague, but you call both live shooting and prize shooting the same thing - prize shooting. Whereas the Admiralty saw the difference between them.
    The introduction of new artillery techniques throughout the British Navy had a tremendous effect. The average accuracy of shooting at prize shooting in 1906 increased by more than one and a half times compared to the results of 1904!

    It's not so much about methods, but about more advanced sights and rangefinders. It was they who provided the explosive growth of shooting accuracy. You can have any skills, master any techniques, but if the rangefinder "lies" and the sight is bad, you will not see success at long distances. Proven in practice on His Majesty's ships in the period described.
    However, the topic of the corresponding materiel, alas, is not even touched upon in the article.
    1. +6
      April 4 2023 05: 26
      Because the article is about the technique, not about rangefinders.
      I had such a book as a child: "Dreadnoughts. The Great Hour of the Oceans." There, it was well written about the preparation of the fleet under Fischer, albeit briefly
      1. 0
        April 4 2023 10: 52
        Good morning Ivan. smile
        I also read it in the seventies, I separately remember "The Last Corsair" about the adventures of the cruiser "Emden". Unfortunately, later it turned out that Blon was, to put it mildly, inaccurate in the details. Nevertheless, at the time, his books were a real treat.
      2. 0
        April 11 2023 21: 57
        I had such a book as a child: "Dreadnoughts. The Great Hour of the Oceans"


        Thanks for the recommendation! I bought it on Avito, I read it.
    2. +3
      April 4 2023 05: 36
      In addition, systems were introduced that ensure that the gun is fired only when the ship is on an even keel.
      1. 0
        April 4 2023 07: 10
        Is it? The Germans got them only after Jutland
      2. 0
        April 4 2023 10: 01
        One of the two of you is clearly lying: because either the shot is fired at the top of the wave, or in the position "on an even keel" - that is, with zero roll. For the uninformed, I will explain that at the top of the wave, the ship necessarily has a maximum roll.

        In addition, systems were introduced that ensure that the gun is fired only when the ship is on an even keel.


        The 12-inch guns of the battleships could not use continuous aiming, since the existing mechanisms did not provide the necessary angular velocity along the vertical. I had to fire a shot at the moment the ship was at the top of the wave.
      3. 0
        April 4 2023 16: 04
        In addition, systems were introduced that ensure that the gun is fired only when the ship is on an even keel.
        Would it make it difficult for you or someone else to clarify: WHAT are these systems that ensured the gun shot when it was on an even keel? How did these systems work? and When exactly did they appear, in which fleet and first, and when in the Russian fleet on which ship?
    3. +3
      April 4 2023 12: 14
      Valentine, good afternoon!
      Quote: Comrade
      but in the reference book "Navy Fleets 1909" this table is titled differently

      "shooting gunners" - does not sound, it is clear that it was not stokers who fired))) Therefore, this term did not take root.

      Quote: Comrade
      It's not so much about methods, but about more advanced sights and rangefinders.

      Unfortunately, your assertion is not supported by facts. Prize shooting or gunner shooting, if you understand it better, was carried out at very modest distances and without the use of rangefinders. Optical sights were changed to good ones in 1905 ... 07, i.e. already after the explosive increase in accuracy. Yes, and "Scylla", "Barfleur" and "Terrible" came out on different results from the entire fleet, not much different in terms of material base.
      1. 0
        April 4 2023 14: 27
        Hello, Alexey!

        Quote: rytik32
        gunners firing" - it doesn’t sound, it’s clear that it wasn’t stokers who fired))) Therefore, this term did not take root.

        Colleague, such a term did not exist.
        To be convinced of this, it is enough to look through the literature of that time.
        The "native" table header is incorrect.

        Quote: rytik32
        Unfortunately, your assertion is not supported by facts. Prize shooting ... were conducted ... without the use of rangefinders. Optical sights were changed to good ones in 1905 ... 07,

        Would you mind supporting these assertions with facts?
        1. 0
          April 4 2023 15: 00
          Quote: Comrade
          Would you mind supporting these assertions with facts?

          I see no point in wasting time on this. You don't back up your claims with facts.
          I'd rather do something more useful for history, for example, translating the results of the firing of the Iwate in March-May 1905 or describing the damage to the Mikasa in the Battle of Tsushima. This is not found on the Internet, unlike what you ask from me.
          1. +1
            April 4 2023 16: 33
            Quote: rytik32
            I see no point in wasting time on this. You don't back up your claims with facts.
            I'd rather do something more useful for the story.

            Sorry, but why then did you spend time writing this article, which is a compilation of P. Scott's book Fifty Years in the Royal Navy and the reference book “Military fleets. 1909?
            These sources are well known.
            Quote: rytik32
            This is not found on the Internet, unlike what you ask from me.

            You may not find it, but you can buy it.
            1. 0
              April 4 2023 17: 35
              Quote: Comrade
              Sorry, but why then did you spend time writing this article, which is a compilation of P. Scott's book Fifty Years in the Royal Navy and the reference book “Military fleets. 1909?

              In which of these sources are the results of combat firing in 1905? Information about shooting at long distances?
              1. +1
                April 4 2023 19: 03
                Quote: rytik32
                In which of these sources are the results of live firing in 1905

                These do not, but Brassey's reference book for 1906 does. Another well-known and accessible to all free source.
                Now, if you relied on the old issues of The Times, where there is a lot of detailed information on the firing of the English fleet, then yes. It would be exclusive.
                1. +5
                  April 4 2023 23: 51
                  Dear Alexey wrote a very high-quality article. You invite him to write an article based on other sources. Write your own exclusive, and we will read with pleasure.
                  1. 0
                    April 6 2023 04: 40
                    Quote from: Derbes19
                    Dear Alexey wrote a very high-quality article. You invite him to write an article based on other sources.

                    Colleague, where did I offer something to someone in this thread?
                    Quote from: Derbes19
                    Write your own exclusive, and we will read with pleasure.

                    I'm not paid here, so it makes no sense to spend money on archival documents, translate them, and then write an article that will bring profit to the site.
                    And so if you please, I'll try to whip up some kind of "Murzilka".
                    If there are no force majeure at work, I will send the text for moderation at the end of the week.
                    Don't charge for quality. Unlike Alexei, I don't do anything useful for history.
                    For me, it's like gymnastics for the brain, and nothing more.
  3. +2
    April 4 2023 06: 49
    Good article. Thank you. By tables. Victories, Atlantic Squadron. Did they try to aim at all?
  4. +1
    April 4 2023 07: 05
    Percy Scott's technique worked well at prize shooting distances of about 1 yards (500 m), when the gunner could clearly see the fall of his shells. However, at long distances, especially in foggy weather, the falling shells were not visible.


    Didn't the sailors then have lighting and smoke shells that they could use for shooting?
    1. +2
      April 4 2023 12: 18
      Then there were no lighting or smoke shells.
      1. 0
        April 4 2023 19: 17
        Quote: rytik32
        there were no lighting or smoke shells.


        Smoke ones have been since the XNUMXth century, lighting, all right - throughout the history of mankind, partisans and commandos fought at night, they didn’t like noise and light and fled from it like stasiks, and regular Noami troops slept - until the WWII happened.
        Although it is strange that at sea the sailors of those times did not come up with such simple ideas - to shoot shells that, when flying, give a continuous smoky trail during the day and a trail of fire at night. Shooting would not only become much more accurate, but would also look enchanting - like meteors flying in arcs across the dark sky, from beyond the horizon ...
        1. +1
          26 August 2023 23: 55
          Illumination shells do not give a "fire trail". They throw out a canister with a holy composition, which descends by parachute.
  5. -1
    April 4 2023 08: 22
    Attention to innovation and constant search for the best. And why be surprised that Britain was the mistress of the sea until the last century? This is not for you to fill the domes of the radar with ball paint.
    1. +1
      April 4 2023 09: 06
      There is something to be surprised. In 10 years, the Germans built a better fleet with better trained sailors. The Angles could only crush with quantity.
      1. +3
        April 4 2023 11: 17
        Quote: Engineer
        In 10 years, the Germans built a better fleet with better trained sailors.

        But this is debatable.
        The Germans, with tenacity worthy of a better use, built the best 2 the strength of the fleet.
        1. +2
          April 4 2023 23: 53
          Probably better quality is not equivalent to stronger.
        2. +1
          April 6 2023 04: 52
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          But this is debatable.
          The Germans, with tenacity worthy of better use, built the best 2nd most powerful fleet.

          Dear Ivan, the facts are that against the armored cruisers of Spee, the British, having broken off, sent battle cruisers. Their gut was thin against the Germans to fight one on one.
          For ten years they trumpeted to the whole world about their "revolutionary methods", they shook the Germans in front of the Germans with a percentage of their firing. And when it came down to it, it turned out that all these percentages can be put into one place by Fisher & Co.
          Sturdy squadron will confirm.
          It is an infinite pity that the Kaiserliche Marina has gone into oblivion, and there are almost no documents left, as knowledgeable people say "from there". As if nothing had happened.
          Only rumors remain...
          1. +1
            April 6 2023 07: 14
            Quote: Comrade
            And when it came down to it, it turned out that all these percentages can be put into one place by Fisher & Co.

            Dear Valentine, the British had enough problems both in shipbuilding and in the training of personnel, but we must give them their due, they conducted Royal Navy propaganda professionally.
          2. 0
            April 7 2023 15: 46
            Quote: Comrade
            that against the armored cruisers of Spee, the British, having broken off, sent battlecruisers. Their gut was thin against the Germans to fight one on one.

            Dear Valentin, the same reproach can be addressed to the Germans, who sent the winners of the Spee prize shooting cups against the Kredoc reservists)))
            But I'm not talking about that at all. It's just that when the British were building 12 "battleships, the Germans were sure that they could get by with 280mm main guns, and when they switched to the new lime caliber, they already mastered 343. And so on.
            1. +1
              April 8 2023 03: 50
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              the same reproach can be addressed to the Germans, who sent the winners of the Spee prize shooting cups against the Kredoc reservists)

              Dear Ivan, there is no way to accept this argument. The Germans did not send Spee's squadron from Germany to the Chilean shores to deal with Cradock's squadron. But the British sent Sturdy's squadron from England to the South Atlantic to deal with Spee's squadron.
              The British could well have sent a couple of armored cruisers there, which before the war flaunted their points received for practical shooting. Let them measure their strength with equals in class.
              An no. Apparently, they knew the price of these points well, and therefore they sent a couple of battle cruisers against Spee instead of a pair of armored cruisers.
              It's as if Kamimura, in order to cope with the Vladivostok detachment of cruisers, asked Togo for a couple of battleships.
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              It's just that when the British were building 12 "battleships, the Germans were sure that they could get by with 280mm main guns

              So it worked out quite well.
      2. +1
        April 4 2023 14: 39
        Quote: Engineer
        There is something to be surprised. In 10 years, the Germans built a better fleet with better trained sailors. The Angles could only crush with quantity.

        And what about the Germans? The RYAV was not leaked by the Germans. (if you remember the next major war)
        1. +2
          April 4 2023 14: 50
          And what about the Germans?

          I mean that having seemingly unshakable positions in 1905 and generating the maximum number of innovations, the British fleet in just 10 years in a clash with the Germans could only count on a numerical advantage.
  6. +5
    April 4 2023 12: 15
    For those who are deeply interested in the subject. Translation of Packinham's report on the damage to the "Eagle" https://rytik32.livejournal.com/331.html
  7. 0
    April 4 2023 16: 05
    Dear Alexey. Thank you for the article. Do not take it as criticism, but too briefly, I understand that the format does not allow. But in some places there may be a misunderstanding of the actions of Percy Scott, I will clarify, this is in cases where the reader is familiar with his work. If you have a desire to continue the discussion in the evening, now not much busy. Thanks again for the article.
    1. 0
      April 4 2023 21: 37
      Igor, good evening! I will gladly read your comments.
      1. +1
        April 5 2023 10: 37
        Good afternoon.
        Dear Alexey, Percy Scott made a great contribution to the development of the training and firing system, but "eye-estimation" without rangefinders only mattered at close range, even taking into account the fact that "shooting spotters" were introduced into artillery crews. Yes, later he began to develop methods of shooting at longer distances, but in this matter the British were ahead of the Americans. Only the lack of finances and excessive secrecy allowed the British to claim that they are "pioneers" in long-range shooting.
  8. -1
    April 4 2023 16: 17
    Author of the article: The secret of Percy Scott's achievements was the use of innovations, ..... To improve the accuracy of pointing, he introduced optical sights of his own design. For more accurate shooting in rough conditions - a method of continuous aiming, involving the constant presence of the target in the sight.
    Dear author, can you explain how it was possible to constantly find the target in the sight? That is, in a long battle, the gunners would have to constantly turn the vertical aiming flywheels for many hours to make the guns swing in time with the waves?
    1. 0
      April 4 2023 21: 38
      Quote: geniy
      That is, in a long battle, the gunners would have constantly many hours

      Many hours would not work - the shells ran out. You can estimate how many minutes of ammunition would be enough. Yes, and the enemy would "end" with that accuracy.
      1. 0
        April 5 2023 10: 10
        Many hours would not work - the shells ran out. You can estimate how many minutes of ammunition would be enough. Yes, and the enemy would "end" with that accuracy.

        I dare to remind you that the battle of Tsushima lasted 5 hours. and the Battle of the Yellow Sea - also lasted several hours. And also the battle of Vladivostok cruisers - also 5 hours.
        And the 6-inch Canet gun weighs 6 tons. So try to continuously aim it at the target - which you hold in sight, that is, either raise the barrel of this gun up, then lower it down not only for several hours, but at least for several minutes. And in fact, this Percy Scott is lying - but you don’t understand what he is deceiving.
        1. 0
          April 5 2023 11: 49
          Quote: geniy
          And in fact, this Percy Scott is lying

          So prove that he's lying. In the meantime, it's not clear, maybe you're lying :)
          1. -1
            April 6 2023 10: 15
            So prove that he's lying.

            What do I need to prove to you? That the Battle of Tsushima and the battle of the Vladivostok cruisers lasted 5 hours, but you don't know that? Or do you need to prove to you that it is impossible for the gunner to raise and lower the gun barrel for 5 hours?
            And the bottom line is simple: This Percy Scott is simply deceiving you all. but he uses a very simple but very effective method of deception: by omitting some very important details. And this method is very often used in military history literature. Because of this, all history buffs have a completely wrong understanding (misunderstanding) of the basic principles of artillery firing. There are a lot of these misunderstood principles. In fact, none of you understand anything. And so, to expose these deceptions of official history, I ask juicy questions - but not at all in order to learn at least something from local history buffs, but I am trying to make you THINK. But it is visible not in the horse's food. I've already asked a few juicy questions that no one has bothered to answer. Do not think that I need to know - I'm just trying to visually show you all the huge inconsistencies in military history.
        2. 0
          April 5 2023 19: 21
          Quote: geniy
          And the 6-inch Canet gun weighs 6 tons. So try to continuously aim it at the target - which you hold in sight, that is, either raise the barrel of this gun up, then lower it down not only for several hours, but at least for several minutes.

          It’s not a fact that this was still done in the old fashioned way by hand and not by artillery automatics - at that time warships were the cutting edge of progress, just like spaceships and satellites in the 1960s and Vyshnegradsky had long ago, even before Percy’s experiments, wrote his works on TAU- theory (and then also torpedoes for destroyers, without this science, cannot be done):
          About direct acting regulators. - St. Petersburg, 1877.
          About indirect action regulators. - St. Petersburg, 1878.
  9. +1
    April 4 2023 16: 26
    Quote: Engineer
    And what about the Germans?

    I mean that having seemingly unshakable positions in 1905 and generating the maximum number of innovations, the British fleet in just 10 years in a clash with the Germans could only count on a numerical advantage.

    Quote: Engineer
    And what about the Germans?

    I mean that having seemingly unshakable positions in 1905 and generating the maximum number of innovations, the British fleet in just 10 years in a clash with the Germans could only count on a numerical advantage.

    At that time, the development of large ships was proceeding by leaps and bounds, so that the revolutionary Dreadnought was already obsolete by 1914, the British used obsolete ships in the Battle of Jutland as bait, the goals of the battle were achieved, the German fleet remained laid up until the end of the war, what's wrong? The fact that the British relied on a numerical advantage means that the Germans were serious opponents, and in the fight against an enemy of equal strength, the numerical advantage is the key to success.
  10. 0
    11 May 2023 20: 50
    Jackie has never been the Minister of the Navy, i.e. First Lord of the Admiralty, he was Commander-in-Chief of the Fleet, i.e. The first sea lord!
    These are completely different positions, with absolutely no overlapping rights and responsibilities.
  11. 0
    16 June 2023 22: 14
    Thanks for the interesting story!
    The stages of preparation are described in detail.
    Was there something similar in the Russian Empire? And in the USSR too.