1500 tanks per year: what will our factories produce for the special operation fronts

It just so happened that the first persons of our state rarely indulge us, ordinary citizens, with any specific information regarding the military-industrial complex of the country. This happened before, and now, when the special military operation in Ukraine has marked its one-year milestone, it is simply impossible to find out any specifics from official sources.

But there are exceptions: in their recent speeches, Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Medvedev announced the total number tanksscheduled for release in 2023. 1-500 units - this is how many combat vehicles of this class the industry should issue during this year. And, of course, we are talking not only about those made from scratch, but also those that have been re-opened and modernized.

In total, there will be five tank models planned for release. All of them are known, but some of them have already received their mobilization options, which are known from open sources.

Production from scratch

Of course, at the bases for storing armored vehicles, we still have a very impressive reserve of tanks, which are in varying degrees of condition, ranging from complete understaffing to completely live combat units. And they are indeed being returned to service, but as far as Uralvagonzavod is concerned, this process is adjacent to the tank production line from scratch.

Here, as it is not difficult to guess, first of all, the conversation is about the T-14 on the universal tracked platform "Armata" - a tank that some have already managed to bury several times just last year, over and over again giving out "exclusive materials" that they decided to completely abandon the car due to the reorientation of production to the needs of the front.

Nevertheless, as they write in the BMPD blog, citing sources in the Russian Ministry of Defense, production of a certain number (perhaps several dozen units) of these tanks is planned for this year. At the same time, a lot of guesses immediately appeared about how the T-14s would be used: from sending them to the special operation zone and ending with the fact that they would allegedly serve as a replacement for equipment in parts of the interior districts. However, neither one nor the other has any basis, and most likely, the "Armata" will continue to be in trial operation.

The second tank to be produced is the T-90M. Again, according to sources from the Ministry of Defense, taking into account the T-14, they plan to produce several hundred units per year. And in principle, there are no questions about its use, since the “emki” have been fighting for a long time - they definitely won’t stay somewhere in the stash.

By the way, until recently, the wording “made from scratch” did not completely fit the T-90M: for the production of these tanks, a backlog of a couple of hundred units from the T-90 chassis was used. Now, completely military-style vehicles will go into operation.

The fact that the pace of production of the T-90M will at least not decrease and remain at the same level, or even increase at all, is a generally correct decision simply because it is the most modern and, most importantly, a serial tank in the Russian army. He does not cut the electronic component in any way, as was the case with other machines, and in general, in terms of design, excluding minor improvements, he did not change.

However, the basis of the one and a half thousand horde of tanks that Putin and Medvedev spoke about, most likely, will be taken from storage and modernized T-62M / MV, T-72B / B1 and T-80B / BV, from which T-62M / MV mod. . 2022, T-72B3 and T-80BVM.

T-72B3, T-80BVM and their mobilization variants

It would seem that the workhorses of the special operation in the face of the T-72B3 and T-80BVM do not need a special description - a lot has already been written and said about them for all the years of production and being in service with the RF Armed Forces. However, recently the tanks have undergone very significant changes: on the same "be-three" they have significantly increased protection due to the expanded installation of dynamic protection in the frontal and side projection, as well as the roof of the tower, and some progress on the part of the navigation systems, sort of like started.

Changes, of course, changes, but along with the release of these tanks, their mobilization options also appeared.

The bottom line is that the original versions of these tanks, which were produced both before the special operation and during 2022 in general, were equipped with the well-known Sosnaya-U - a contraption that is often called just a sight, but in fact is a full-fledged fire control system.

Tank T-72B3 model 2016

It includes both a daytime optical channel and a thermal imaging channel. And all this is flavored with a channel for guidance of guided missiles, its own ballistic computer and automatic target tracking. In short, although there were many complaints about it, especially in terms of its location in tanks, it is the best serial system in the Russian tank forces.

In the T-72B3, Sosna-U was adjacent to the 1A40 sighting system and was installed in place of the 1K13 night sight / missile guidance device. And in the T-80BVM it was the main day and night sight, in addition to which there was a backup television sight with individual power supply. However, recently some batches of tanks have received other equipment.

Tank T-80BVM

Now, judging by photographs from open sources and having no secrecy, “Sosna-U” for parts taken from storage and upgraded tanks began to be replaced with a thermal imaging sight 1PN96MT (1PN96MT-02) with a built-in laser rangefinder channel and ballistic computer.

Sight 1PN96MT-02 at the exhibition

Of course, it is impossible to call 1PN96MT-02 completely analogous to Sosny-U, but as a replacement, especially in the conditions of mass production of tanks for the front, it is quite. It’s already good that they didn’t leave the old Soviet “night lights” sights.

Display of thermal imaging sight 1PN96MT-02 in T-80BVM. Source: Channel One report

The display and control panel of the thermal imaging sight 1PN96MT-02 on the left and the optical sight 1G46 on the right. Tank T-80BVM new sample.

On the mobilization version of the T-80BVM tanks produced in 2023, the sighting system was completely redesigned.

Since the existing "teplak" 1PN96MT-02, which is installed on these machines, does not have an optical channel, it was decided to introduce the 1G46 optical sight into the fire control complex, which, not without reason, was considered one of the best products of this kind in the USSR and became an integral attribute T-80U and various modifications of T-90. However, its capabilities do not lose relevance: the guided missile guidance channel, the development of corrections for firing using a ballistic computer with a set of firing conditions sensors and the built-in laser rangefinder perform their duties properly.

As for the T-72B / B1 tanks, which after modernization receive the T-72B3 index, things are similar with Sosna-U: 1PN96MT-02 is used again, but without 1G46 - there is still the same sighting system 1A40 with an optical rangefinder sight TPD-K1 and a device for generating lateral lead. Can this be called a mobilization option or will the tanks get their own, at least informal index, is still a question.

Modernized tanks T-72B (T-72B3 mob. option) with a sight 1PN96MT-02

The reasons for the appearance of the mobilization variants of the T-80BVM and the upgraded T-72B (T-72B3) are clear: there will not be enough Sosna-U for everyone, especially with such a forced release. Therefore, in the troops at the same time it will be possible to see tanks in both standard and simplified versions. But these four will become the basis of the 2023-strong horde planned for XNUMX. Here we can only hope that in the end the release of "Pine" will still be equalized with the release of combat vehicles.

T-62M/MV arr. 2022

Completes the list of modernized T-62M tanks and its variations.

Their overhaul and refinement is carried out by the 103rd BTRZ in Atamanovka, Trans-Baikal Territory. Although, perhaps, most of those who even occasionally glance at these cars know about news channels.

Soviet T-62M tank. Photo: vitalykuzmin.net

The fact that these vehicles would be massively removed from storage and modernized became known last fall, when retired general and State Duma deputy Andrei Gurulev announced grandiose plans to produce 800 tanks in three years. However, the actual pace of production is not yet clear - at least one battalion has been released for sure, but the improved "sixty-twos" have already been sent to the front and seen in battle.

The Soviet T-62M tanks with additional protection in the form of metal-polymer blocks, as well as the T-62MV with hinged dynamic protection "Contact" are taken as the basis for modernization. Their variations in the form of the T-62M-1 and T-62MV-1 are also sent there, the main distinguishing feature of which is the more powerful 690-horsepower V-46-5M engine instead of the standard V-55U for 620 horses.

At the factory, they are being overhauled, equipped with lattice screens and, if we talk about the T-62M, dynamic protection in the frontal part of the hull and turret roof, and also, probably, are being finalized in terms of communication systems. However, the main innovation is the 1PN96MT thermal imaging sight already familiar to us, which is put in place of the 1K13 night sight / missile guidance device.

Tanks T-62M (left) and T-62MV (right) of the 2022 model. Source: TV channel report "Russia-1"

The peculiar pride of the T-62M series tanks and its variants - the Volna fire control system - thanks to which the vehicles significantly improved their combat characteristics, is now missing.

Due to the fact that the tank is deprived of laser rangefinders KTD-1-1 (KTD-2) above the gun, instead of which they put plugs, it is no longer possible to fire with semi-automatic correction through a standard optical sight. All this replaces 1PN96MT with its own ballistic computer and rangefinder.

The display and control panel of the thermal imaging sight 1PN96MT-02 on the left and the eyepiece of the optical sight on the right. Upgraded T-62M model 2022

In general, the "sixty-twos" from the Atamanovsky plant, although they do not claim to be modern and cannot stand up to the same rank with any "Abrams" or "Leopards 2", but the modernization turned out to be solid. Not without questions, of course, but quite tolerable - much better than in the original form of the Soviet model.

How many of them will be able to release this year is a question. But, given the speeding up of the pace of production in accordance with presidential decrees, battalions 5–7 will still be sent out of the gates of the plant. For now though, this is just speculation.

Conclusions

Much can be said as conclusions, but the main thing here is that we really need a lot of equipment, especially tanks. In conditions when the West plans to deliver to Ukraine this year at least about half a thousand combat units of this class alone, not including other vehicles, forced production is simply necessary in the near future.

Yes, for the most part, this mass of our equipment will consist of reactivated and upgraded tanks, but one should not expect anything else in this situation - the same Uralvagonzavod plows literally in emergency mode, repairing and upgrading up to two or three battalions of tanks per month , including cars arriving from the front. And while maintaining the production of T-90M.

Of course, there are questions about the tanks being upgraded, both in terms of security and electronics, but it just so happened that now we are not in the situation to give full priority to quality and high cost to the detriment of mass production. Yes, and there is hope that with the production of Sosny-U and, for example, a deeper refinement of the security of the T-62, things will somehow settle down, and measures will be taken.

As will be further - we'll see.

Comments

[AC130 Gunship]

How many tanks per year did the USSR produce during WW2, when factories worked in 3 shifts?

[Mizerbal]

If the entire population of the country agrees to live as our ancestors lived during the Great Patriotic War, then they will be able to produce commensurate with the Soviet Union

[Civil]

Quote from Mizerbal

If the entire population of the country agrees to live as our ancestors lived during the Great Patriotic War, then they will be able to produce commensurate with the Soviet Union

1. This is when we were asked the opinion of the population? They will say - everyone will silently take up the tug.
2. Thanks to the USSR for the reserves and backlog.

[Negro]

Quote: Civil

. This is when we asked the opinion of the population? They will say - everyone will silently take up the tug.

)))
Do not wait.

[Kasym]

Judging by the newspaper Arguments of the Week, then
1. Omsk this year will switch completely to the production of new tanks.
2. T-62M \ MV are not going to the RF Armed Forces, but to the territorial defense forces.
3. Created a new armor-piercing-sub-caliber feathered shot for a 115-mm cannon
4. T-54s will go like "ersatz self-propelled guns", firing from closed firing positions (i.e. not direct fire). Due to the correction with the UAV, this makes sense. With such shooting, fancy sights are not needed ... And also in the form of pillboxes in fortified areas.
5. Tanks not only knock out. They still come out for technical reasons and quite often. In this scenario, a "rotation" is required. Therefore, a lot of tanks are needed.
6. The task was set to produce 3 million shells per year.
I would like to know the opinion of the tankers on these issues.

[Diger]

Quote: Kasym

1. Omsk this year will switch completely to the production of new tanks.

which ones?
Armmat?

KBTM specializes in the manufacture, modernization and repair of T-80 tanks, bridge layers, mechanized bridges, airborne crossings, repair and recovery vehicles, engineering barriers, demining vehicles, flamethrower systems and simulators for these vehicles. It develops construction and road machines, equipment for the oil and gas complex.

Quote: Kasym

2. T-62M \ MV go not to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, but to the forces of the territorial

It's like repeating mantras.
- with whom to "fight" the defense?
https://encyclopedia.mil.ru/encyclopedia/dictionary/details.htm?id=10959@morfDictionary
to protect "military facilities why

multispectral gyro-stabilized optical-electronic system (MGOES) and a thermal imager. MGOES is mounted on the tank turret with the help of a mast

?
"That is he got up, raised the mast somewhere in the woods and looks, observes what is happening there," an employee of the Main Armored Directorate of the Ministry of Defense explained.

Quote: Kasym

3. Created a new armor-piercing sub-caliber

what is the novelty? when was it created? what factory will produce it?
(As far as we know, only the DPRK churns out 115 mm ammunition)

Quote: Kasym

4. T-54s will go like "ersatz self-propelled guns", firing from closed

self-propelled guns? with UVN -5g / + 17g (and does not live long at this limit!)?
with an elevation of 17 degrees, this is a little more than direct fire.
the fate of the T-54 is

or long ago it was necessary to redo everything in

Quote: Kasym

6. The task was set to produce 3 million shells per year.

May decrees ... yes
- the rate of repair of the shell fleet was officially published by the Ministry of Defense in 2017. They get that somewhere around 500 or more shells a year they restore their usefulness.
They wrote that this would conditionally save 40 billion rubles a year. But, if you look at the revenue of shell factories, it was at the level of 80 billion rubles a year. Based on this, one can very roughly assume that the ratio of repaired to new ammunition is 1 to 2.
That is, in total, about 2017 million shells of all types were produced for the Moscow Region per year in 1,5 (!)
vs

Russia is firing more than 60,000 shells per day — 10 times more than the Ukrainians, Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Malyar told The Washington Post.

let not 60000 but 20 / day
let 10% marriage and loss (fell into a swamp, burned the conveyor)
20+000%=10
22000*365=8 030 000.
EIGHT MILLION per year (this is if 20000 per day)
3 million, don't even offset the annual expense
Launch guides have a long service life (there, at the URALs, the engine grunts, or the gearbox, but the pipes will live).
But artillery barrels have a finite resource - from 500, according to various sources, to 1500-2000 shots. After that, you need to change the barrel. And where to get it? Who produced it? There are still some stocks from the Soviet times in the warehouses, some trunks are lying around. But basically new barrels are not produced, because barrels are precision mechanics.
10 June 2022 in 22: 31

Bankrupt Perm plant sells spare parts for multiple launch rocket systems

https://ura.news/news/1052560792

https://itogi2017.mil.ru/Results.html

We do not rattling weapons and do not intend to fight with anyone.
At the same time, we do not advise anyone to test our defense capability for strength.

[Vlad2012]

Self-propelled guns can be "assault" and reinforce tank units or infantry by shooting from a place. Like the same SU 76, 122, 152 mm. The first strengthened the T-85 quantitatively, the rest quantitatively and qualitatively. The plant producing trunks is No. 9 in Yekaterinburg. I think if we could produce a howitzer barrel in 1938 for the ML-20, then a barrel with the same ballistics even for Acacia or D-20 can now be made.
Towed artillery and self-propelled artillery in the stock, according to the military balance, more than 4000 each. While just over 4500 are currently in use.

[Kasym]

Johannes, I quoted the Academy of Sciences and asked for comments from specialists such as the VAF, etc. And you, excuse me for being direct, who?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Kasym

And you, pardon the frankness, who?

He studies at school, exams will soon be in Russian.

[EMMM]

Something I'm really stupid! We don't have 115mm guns at all.

[Vashek]

I advise you to look at the guns 1A20 and 1A21. On the T-62 - 1A20, on the T-64 - 1A21 (with separate loading)

[Gardamir]

If the entire population of the country agrees to live as our ancestors lived

Of course, of course, let there be shows every day. The ability to cut, who can do what .. Or maybe we can talk about those who destroyed the economy (optimized)? And the figures that they promised are unrealistic, but they promised now there are a thousand comments, and then everyone will safely forget. But in the elections they will sacredly believe. that under Putin the economy is not like in the 90s.
And yes, to those who firmly believe that tanks have become more complicated, electronics and so on. Do you think the machines have also remained at the level of 1941, or is it also more difficult?

[SOF]

...... yes, there are enough problems ......
...... yes, sycophants and bribe-takers, a dime a dozen .....
..... and there are plenty of sawflies .......
...... but "evolution" continues, and for "revolution" during the war, even under the holy Union, they leaned against the wall ......
...... and yes, by the way, how is it doing there, but how does it relate to the NWO, the great presidential candidate Grudinin ...... do not enlighten? .......
...... otherwise, I remember, relatively recently, all ears were filled with his person, they say ..... "Grudinin will come - he will put things in order" .....

[EMMM]

And you look at the chassis of modern Russian tanks (I have no doubt that you are writing from Bugra). It's the same 34! And, I dare to notice you, the Reichstag will be again!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from Mizerbal

If the entire population of the country agrees to live as our ancestors lived during the Great Patriotic War, then they will be able to produce commensurate with the Soviet Union

They can’t.

[BUMER]

This requires a war commensurate with ww2. God forbid!

[Materialist]

Will they agree? What does it mean? Ripe for a revolution? Not ripe, still philistines to the marrow of bones
And it can’t be compared with the release of the USSR, there is neither a planned economy, nor a command-administrative control system, moreover, the USSR itself developed from scratch and built tanks, now all those engines, chassis, hulls and turrets are not produced in such quantities, but anew designed tanks serve as the personification of financial fraud

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote from Mizerbal

If the entire population of the country agrees to live as our ancestors lived during the Great Patriotic War, then they will be able to produce commensurate with the Soviet Union

Again, demagogy about the horrors of the bloody scoop from the apologists of the market economy. More about a pickaxe, a wheelbarrow and a quilted jacket with kirzachs.

[Letun]

Quote from Mizerbal

If the entire population of the country agrees to live as our ancestors lived during the Great Patriotic War, then they will be able to produce commensurate with the Soviet Union

Again, poor population. Well, what can you do?! That's bad luck for the leadership with the population, that's the trouble!

[Bogalex]

Will an industrial base comparable to the Soviet Union be blown away by the wind?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

How many tanks per year did the USSR produce during WW2, when factories worked in 3 shifts?

Compare in complexity and efficiency at least the IS-2 with at least the T-72BZ. So 150 (conditionally) for 000 years versus 5 for a year are quite comparable figures. But the USSR was cooler, there is no doubt.

[Stas157]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Compare in terms of complexity and efficiency, at least the IS-2 with at least the T-72BZ.

And you compare the productivity and production technologies of the 21st century and the middle of the 20th.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Stas157

And you compare the productivity and production technologies of the 21st century and the middle of the 20th.

I would like to add more about practical possibilities.
Before the Second World War, the USSR produced more than 24 thousand tanks (whatever they were), and this indicates the industrial potential, the availability of personnel, etc. During the Second World War, six large tank factories were fully operational in the USSR. Comparing the production of armored vehicles then and now is a thankless task ...

[frog]

And what are you going to compare? The productivity of enterprises producing OMS for tanks? So this, sorry, electronics. And in this area, our successes are known and indisputable. Well, and there's some little things. We buy trivial air mopeds in the Persians. Compare technology and performance?
And you can add a little more ... how much time has passed from the beginning of the development of the same ISs to putting them into service in, to put it mildly, significant quantities? No analogies come to mind?) There were still some kind of airplanes, cannons, riflemen .... Compare, sir?

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Stas157

And you compare the productivity and production technologies of the 21st century and the middle of the 20th.

What has changed? Steel casting, rolling or automatic welding? As collected by hand, and collected, if you are not in the know. But the number of parts has greatly increased, without even thinking about electronics.

[bk316]

And you compare the productivity and production technologies of the 21st century and the middle of the 20th.

A small educational program. In the automotive industry, there are 2 types of assembly: conveyor and brigade.
The second includes sports cars and premium +, everything else is a conveyor.
I hope you understand the difference.
So at the moment, neither tanks nor planes are assembled on the assembly line. With us, for sure, but as far as I understand, nowhere in the world either. Therefore, the performance is almost the same.
The only thing that can be done is to introduce new production facilities.
But a tank plant is not a factory for assembling UAVs in six months you cannot build from scratch.

[Postcode]

But a tank plant is not a factory for assembling UAVs in six months you cannot build from scratch.

Why from scratch? There are existing production capacities, they only need to be expanded.
If you take the story, Uralvagonzavod became a production site for tanks from August to October 1941!!! in three months, on the basis of a wagon plant and several evacuated tank ones, from the same Kharkov, they made a plant and began to produce T34

[Alf]

Quote from Cap

There are existing production capacities, they only need to be expanded.

1. Where can I get machines, at once and a lot?
2. Where to get workers for them, at once and a lot?
3. Where to get qualified workers, immediately and a lot?

[Postcode]

What does "immediately" mean? In June 2022, everyone who is not stupid understood the scale of the losses of the first three months (it was in the first three months that the RF Armed Forces suffered the most significant losses in equipment), in August the decision to mobilize was made and in September announced, and in December about gradual increase in the number of armed forces. April 2023 is in the yard. There is such a principle that if today we do what we did yesterday, then tomorrow we will have the same thing that we have today.

[bk316]

Why from scratch? There are existing production capacities, they only need to be expanded.

Unfortunately Alf is right.
You can expand the assembly if you find workers and a building somewhere.
But where to get components and assemblies. We need machines and qualified personnel.
You can't take them out of nowhere.
I have never been to UVZ, for that I saw the Kranstadt plant
This is where you can increase production many times and dozens of times.

[Postcode]

Answered above, I can only duplicate .....
What does "immediately" mean? In June 2022, everyone who is not stupid understood the scale of the losses of the first three months (it was in the first three months that the RF Armed Forces suffered the most significant losses in equipment), in August the decision to mobilize was made and in September announced, and in December about gradual increase in the number of armed forces. April 2023 is in the yard. There is such a principle that if today we do what we did yesterday, then tomorrow we will have the same thing that we have today.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: bk316

So at the moment, neither tanks nor planes are assembled on the assembly line.

What kind of demagoguery can not be invented to protect the rotten swamp that is comfortable for you.

[bk316]

What kind of demagoguery can not be invented to protect the rotten swamp that is comfortable for you.

You mean planet Earth? They're not going anywhere on the conveyor.

[Stas157]

Quote: bk316

at the moment, neither tanks nor aircraft are assembled on the assembly line.

But during the Second World War they were produced. The fact that now tanks are not being produced on the conveyor is not from the fact that they cannot, but from the fact that so much was not needed.

[stankow]

Compare weight. Approximately the same. This means that both machine hours and productivity are close.

[DMFalke]

It is not entirely correct to compare the release of WWII and the 21st century. What tanks, what planes. The size, complexity, price, labor costs, etc. have increased.

Rivet purely mechanical T34 or wooden Yak and La is one thing. But even the old t62 / t72 and mig29, su27 require a completely different level of production, cooperation, education and investment.

[Stas157]

Quote from DMFalke

It's not fair to compare issue of WWII and the 21st century. What tanks, what planes. The size, complexity, price, labor costs, etc. have increased.

Why? Do you think that the current tanks are produced on equipment from the Second World War and performance has not increased since then?

Maybe just someone in the zero years of the Soviet factories in the shopping centers massively altered?

[frog]

Do you think that the current tanks are produced on equipment from the Second World War and performance has not increased since then?

If we consider the real productivity in units per year, the same tanks have not grown. The performance of a particular machine is of little interest. Because often even on imported machines (which are CNC) all this stray is practically not used, as provided. well, and others .... "little things" in a long list ...

[bk316]

Why?

I explained why a little higher.

[Doccor18]

Quote from DMFalke

But even the old t62 / t72 and mig29, su27 require a completely different level of production, cooperation, education and investment

Yes, but only one Uralvagonzavod was able to produce over 20 thousand T-72 tanks in seventeen Soviet years (an average of 1200 units annually) ... About 62 thousand T-20s were produced in fifteen years (over 1300 per year). ..

[Negro]

Quote: Doccor18

Uralvagonzavod was able to produce over 20 thousand T-72 tanks over the seventeen Soviet years (an average of 1200 units annually) ... T-62s were released in fifteen years about 20 thousand (over 1300 per year) ...

So Medvedev promises you about the same amount. What are you dissatisfied with?

[Shtrek]

..... Medvedev is about as much. And he promises. .....

..by the way, yes ...... in the Soviet Union, the work of the military-industrial complex was supervised by such talented organizers as Lavrenty Beria (until 1953) and Dmitry Ustinov (the entire war and until his appointment as Minister of Defense) .... today the military-industrial complex oversees Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev, who will have to use all his technical (!) Luggage of knowledge and outstanding organizational skills to solve the problems that lie ahead ....

[nedgen]

Quote: Negro

Quote: Doccor18

Uralvagonzavod was able to produce over 20 thousand T-72 tanks over the seventeen Soviet years (an average of 1200 units annually) ... T-62s were released in fifteen years about 20 thousand (over 1300 per year) ...

So Medvedev promises you about the same amount. What are you dissatisfied with?

The fact of the matter is that there will hardly be more than 300-400 tanks from scratch, the rest are the modernization of those in storage, and even then some of the modernized T-62s and they are not being modernized at Uralvagonzavod !!! Those. if I'm not mistaken, there will be somewhere around 300 T-62s a year, i.e. 1200 "new" tanks remain, and of these 1200 from scratch, i.e. REALLY new will be only 300-400. So compare with the USSR during the Second World War and post-war production. Especially in the mid-80s, when only the T-72 was produced 1200 units a year without a war, and this despite the fact that the T-72B72 differs from the T-3B mainly in the electronic filling, which Uralvagonzavod IN PRINCIPLE does not produce !!! And the T-90 is also not very different from the T-72. Even at one time they wanted the T-90 to assign the T-72 index, either D or some other (to be honest, I don’t remember). So now Uralvagonzavod cannot produce even half of the amount that it produced during the Soviet era !!! And still NOT WORK Uralvagonzavod REPAIR tanks. Its business is to produce and modernize, BUT the stool and the current leadership of Rostec and the Moscow Region closed so many repair plants that now the capacity of repair plants is not enough and Uralvagonzavod has to deal with repairs instead of production. And yes, there are not enough staff! Such are pies with kittens.

[Negro]

Quote from DMFalke

The size, complexity, price, labor costs, etc. have increased.

Not quite.

Sherman cost 50-60 US annual salaries in 1941. Abram is worth approximately 100 annual salaries.

Airplanes have gone up in price.

[frog]

Riveting purely mechanical T34s or wooden Yak and La is one thing.

On machine tools bought yesterday by the proletariat, yesterday torn off from the plow. With engineers and technologists cut off from the same day before yesterday. And at the same time, take an interest in how it all developed there, in the era of industrialization, then ... I would like to master the production of F-22 at the same plant No. 92. On the very one that, after three years, he began to sculpt the ZiS-3. And he stuck more than a hundred of them during the war. Thousand. By digging this story, you will learn a lot. Including about who and how did this technological masterpiece. Not Grabin, by the way, with all due respect to Vasily Gavrilovich ...

But even the old t62 / t72 and mig29, su27 require a completely different level of production, cooperation, education and investment.

Is it true? When, under Kobe, they sculpted all the production almost from scratch - was it easier?
And yes, but where in thirty years of continuous success, without any wars, with ... mmm .... "open world" did "a completely different level of production, cooperation, education and investment" go away? As a result, in reality (no matter how ridiculous it may sound), we come to the tech-priesthood, be it amiss. Let's just keep quiet about the organization of all these processes ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: frog

And at the same time, take an interest in how it all developed there, in the era of industrialization, then ... I would like to master the production of F-22 at the same plant No. 92. On the very one that, after three years, he began to sculpt the ZiS-3. And he stuck more than a hundred of them during the war. Thousand. By digging this story, you will learn a lot. Including about who and how did this technological masterpiece. Not Grabin, by the way, with all due respect to Vasily Gavrilovich ...

Yes, there, even according to Grabin's memoirs, a sad picture emerges. When the transition to the joint work of the factory design bureau and factory technologists is presented as a breakthrough solution, characteristic of only one plant, this says a lot. After that, you are no longer surprised by the numerous failures in the production of products in a series - even if they were developed at the same plant where they were supposed to be produced (for example, KPV-44). I'm not talking about Cuckoo-clock products of citizen Taubin.

[frog]

Even what I know about the machine plant (and I know quite a bit)) is enough to "sprinkle ashes on my head and leave, howling, into the night." The history of the formation of this representative of the domestic industry ... delivers. It can be assumed that it was so .... it was colorful not only there, most likely, similar layouts had to be in almost all factories. But reading for mastering the works of Monsieur Kurchevsky (with which the plant began) or the same 22nd .... "My brain stood on end with my hair" (c) It could be partially posted here, but, IMHO, okromya (who said "Sracha" ?, set aside !!)) absolutely useless remarks will not cause anything ... Whoever needs it - and knows who doesn't - let the reasons for sketches themselves be exhausted) ...
Well, the works of Yakov Griogrievich are widely known, in narrow circles ... As well as the already mentioned Leonid Vasilyevich ... and many others .....
However, where are we without this? Who and when will the bumps be knocked up?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: frog

But reading for mastering the works of Monsieur Kurchevsky (with which the plant began) or the same 22nd .... "My brain stood on end with my hair" (c)

Well, to be honest, we weren't the only ones. Remember at least the saga about the serial production of 20-mm air guns by the Allies.
The most interesting thing is that one of the main problems of the production of the 30s described by Grabin - a multiple excess of the mass of blanks over finished parts (8-10 times) - is also not only a domestic disaster. The Americans, having received official documentation for Bofors from the Swedes in 1941 (unofficially they received it back in 1940 from limes), wept bloody tears - not only was the technology not at all suitable for large-scale production, but also 90% of the metal in in normal mode, it should have gone into shavings. Chrysler had to completely rework both CD and TD. The results ... inspired - after the completion of only 10 units, the savings for the year of production amounted to almost three and a half thousand tons of metal and two million man-hours, and three dozen machine tools were also released. And the refinement process continued further - until only the caliber remained from the Bofors.

[frog]

So, did I really say that we only had this?) For me, the "special path" is not interesting and is not the main .... morphing sign. Because there is no such special way. There are attempts to justify bungling and stupidity, sorry.
But in this way Grabin could be mentioned a turnover of 30%, and organized refusals to work in accordance with the established prices, and almost an inch layer of emulsion in many shops and much more .... Starting with the theft of equipment and personnel by one Soviet plant at another Soviet factory
And because I try to know a little about Russian history (regardless of personal preferences)) - I have no illusions, unfortunately. Not for the past, not for the future...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: frog

But this way Grabin could also be mentioned a turnover of 30%

Plus, the eternal problem with skilled workers, who are too few, and therefore it is not they who are looking for work, but the work is looking for them, in fact, outbidding specialists from other enterprises. Fortunately, before the well-known decree banning unauthorized leaving of work places, the dismissal procedure did not even require applications and permits - you could simply stop going to your old job, and after a while you were automatically fired.

Quote: frog

and organized refusals to work according to the established rates

In the late 30s, the aviation industry tried to stimulate productivity with the ruble by raising rates for overtime work. As a result, during working hours, the output was minimal, and the entire plan was made in overtime.

Quote: frog

Starting with the theft of equipment and personnel by one Soviet plant from another Soviet plant

Well, it's an old tradition. The Tsaritsyno Vickers plant, remember, was taken away in WWI throughout the Volga.

[frog]

Plus the eternal problem with skilled workers, who are too few, and therefore it is not they who are looking for work, but the job is looking for them

ICHSH, in a much later union, not a shish has changed)))
It is no less amusing to note in this place ..... strange attempts by lovers of "alternative history" and I'm not talking about the Fomenks. And about fans of such a fantasy, where we are trying to save the empire by winning the REV, replay chi 1941, for example. And all the sufferings of Saratov in the "rivets" rest on these simple things. In the same way as those who want to "five-year plan in four years, in three shifts, in two hands and on one patch!" rested against them now. In connection, so to speak, with "special conditions". From how specialists will be taken out of the freezer, how they will unfreeze and how they will earn ....

In the late 30s, the aviation industry tried to stimulate productivity with the ruble by raising rates for overtime work. As a result, during working hours, the output was minimal, and the entire plan was made in overtime.

No, everything here was simpler)). They just changed the rates. As a little later in Novocherkassk. Although there ... is a separate story ... From which no one has drawn any conclusions, and Sumgayit did happen ...
And as for "stimulating the ruble" a la "with us", I have read on this topic about the Stalingrad Tractor Plant. Delivered)).

Well, it's an old tradition. The Tsaritsyno Vickers plant, remember, was taken away in WWI throughout the Volga.

Duc it and do not argue. But then there were two operating factories, the most defensive ones, taken into account in all plans, Orjo himself came ....

[Negro]

Quote: Alexey RA

Plus, the eternal problem with skilled workers, who are too few, and therefore it is not they who are looking for work, but work is looking for them, in fact, outbidding specialists from other enterprises

At that moment a cab came round the corner. Beside him, holding on to the dusty, charred wing of the carriage and waving a swollen folder with an embossed "Musique" inscription, a man in a long sweatshirt walked quickly. He was ardently proving something to the rider. The rider - an elderly man with a nose hanging like a banana - squeezed the suitcase with his legs and from time to time showed his interlocutor a fico. In the heat of the argument, his engineer's cap, the band of which sparkled with green sofa plush, squinted to one side. Both litigants often and especially loudly uttered the word "salary".

Soon other words were heard.

- You will answer for this, Comrade Talmudovsky! shouted the long-haired one, moving the engineer's figurine away from his face.

- And I tell you that not a single decent specialist will go to you under such conditions! - answered Talmudovsky, trying to return the figure to its previous position.

- You're talking about salary again! We'll have to raise the question of grabbing.

I didn't care about the salary! I will work for nothing! - shouted the engineer, excitedly describing all sorts of curves with a fico. - I want to - and generally retire. You give up this serfdom! They themselves write “Freedom, Equality and Fraternity” everywhere, but they want to force me to work in this rat hole.

Here Talmudovsky quickly unclenched the fig and began to count on his fingers:

- The apartment is a pigsty, there is no theater, the salary ... A cab driver! Went to the station!

- Whoa! - The long-haired one screeched, fussily running ahead and grabbing the horse by the bridle. - I, as the secretary of the section of engineers and technicians ... Kondrat Ivanovich! After all, the plant is left without specialists! .. Fear God! .. The public will not allow this, engineer Talmudovsky! .. I have protocols in my portfolio ...

And the secretary of the section, spreading his legs, began to quickly untie the ribbons of his "Musique".

This negligence settled the dispute. Seeing that the path was clear, Talmudovsky got to his feet and shouted with all his strength:

– Went to the station!

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote from DMFalke

But even the old t62 / t72 and mig29, su27 require a completely different level of production, cooperation, education and investment.

And most importantly, they demand that they be made, and did not chat about the fact that it is impossible.

[Quiet Don]

The USSR, when the evacuated factories started working at full capacity, produced up to 5 thousand tanks of various types per month, and not modernized, but from scratch.

[mark1]

Quote: Quiet Don

up to 5 thousand tanks of various types per month

24 thousand per year

[Vladimir Mikhalev]

Tank tank strife. It all depends on the parameters of the tank

[Negro]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

How many tanks per year did the USSR produce during WW2, when factories worked in 3 shifts?

Tanks of the same mass as today's (KV / IS family) - three thousand per year (+ heavy self-propelled guns). Medium - up to 15 thousand. Of course, the numbers are 43-45 years.

By the way, WW2 is enemy propaganda. The USSR had WWII. Careful, comrade.

[dart_vader_13]

There, mobilization tanks rolled off the assembly line. At the present time, tanks are more technologically advanced and we cannot produce in such quantities .... It is possible to arrange the production of a mobilization tank, but then its quality will be different and the survival rate of the crew will be low.

[lis-ik]

Quote from: dart_vader_13

There, mobilization tanks rolled off the assembly line. At the present time, tanks are more technologically advanced and we cannot produce in such quantities .... It is possible to arrange the production of a mobilization tank, but then its quality will be different and the survival rate of the crew will be low.

The article is just talking mainly about mobilization tanks.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from: dart_vader_13

There, mobilization tanks rolled off the assembly line.

Quite modern for the time. And the IS-3 produced more than two thousand in a year.

[Hey]

I think that it is somewhat incorrect to compare the releases of tanks during the Second World War and in the present period.
1. The number of factories producing tanks and their repair.
2. Additional equipment and tank protection.
3. Weight of tanks.
Taken together, this does not allow the production of tanks, quantitatively, in comparison with the Second World War.

[Barberry25]

you still remember the planes ... your comment is strange

[Graz]

you are confusing warm with soft. tank of times 2 world and modern, different in complexity and equipment, cars and crew for modern cook longer

[locks]

How many tanks per year did the USSR produce during WW2, when factories worked in 3 shifts?

it’s not worth comparing the production rates of T34 and T72 / T90 directly (labor costs and manufacturability differ by an order of magnitude)

[spektr9]

it’s not worth comparing the production rates of T34 and T72 / T90 directly (labor costs and manufacturability differ by an order of magnitude)

It can be compared with the 70-80 years, when the same t72 / t80 were produced:
Uralvagonzavod produced +\- 1500 t-72 per year, not counting cars based on them
Omsk tank building +\- 400 t-80 per year, not counting vehicles based on them
(Kharkovskiy is not taken into account)
Plus, in 70-80, the USSR also modernized a rather large number of t55 / t62 ...
And let me note that all this happened in peacetime, against the background of this a dozen armats and a couple of hundred new t-90m produced from scratch looks like a mockery

[Reklastik]

Then it’s not the USSR, but the USSR, and not WW2, but the Second World War.

[Sergei Fonov]

During the Second World War, they produced up to 30 thousand tanks a year, or somewhere around 000 thousand, in total for the war, if I'm not mistaken, about 28, maybe more. This is only the T-000.

[Negro]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

somewhere around 28 thousand, in total for the war, if I'm not mistaken, about 000, maybe more. It's only T-86

Lying is bad.

[Filibuster]

The USSR alone produced 1944 tanks in 29, Germany - 000 tanks.
So 1500 tanks a year is an absolute minuscule, it shows the degradation of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation over the past 30 years.

[Negro]

Quote: Flibuster

, Germany - 33 tanks.

It's not easier yet. Does Speer know?

[Uncle lee]

As will be further - we'll see.

More tanks, good and different!

[Asad]

I will support! The author deserves a plus.

[not the one]

I join. The author can. And the conclusion

As will be further - we'll see.

Don't subtract or add...

[buv59]

During the Great Patriotic War, the USSR produced an average of 25 thousand tanks and self-propelled guns annually. One can only dream of this now.

[KCA]

Now in one tractor with a plow there are more electronics than in 100 WWII tanks, I won’t say anything about self-propelled guns at all, what, come on, rivet carts completely on mechanics and a keen eye of a suggestive one? Nenuacho, it’s easy to knock out Leo A000 from 50m if you drive up, but who will allow it? And at 6 km, electronic guidance devices are somehow needed, they are a little expensive and take time to assemble and configure

[ycuce234-san]

Quote: KCA

somehow you need electronic guidance devices, they are a little expensive and take time to assemble and configure

It probably makes sense to convert the oldest tanks into something relevant - for example, into self-propelled mortars and rocket launchers, which really can still be purely mechanical. Into heavy armored personnel carriers-breaks - without altering the hull, but by coupling a caterpillar armored trailer with it for landing.
From the field of high-tech - to secure mobile repeater stations needed for the operation of drones and communications.

[Stas157]

Quote: KCA

Now in one tractor with a plow there are more electronics than in 100 WWII tanks

And what? What do you mean by that? Mass production of electronics is much easier than tanks. Look at China. Yes, he filled the whole world with his electronics! This would not work with tanks.

[your1970]

Quote: Stas157

Mass production of electronics is much easier than tanks. Look at China.

Do you remember technology?
First, the United States and others brought factories to China - for free !!! - trained personnel, and only then China flooded the world with electronics.
The USSR did not succeed in this, no one sold the entire electronics factories to the Russian Federation ...
Why are there electronics - "Opel" promised but did not give ...

[UserGun]

Well, you are wrong here. As I have repeatedly written, the same AMD sold its FAB in Dresden to the Russian Federation ENTIRELY in 2007, if my memory serves me right) It would seem, take it and do it! But it was not there...)

[frog]

In this place you can put something to read))). I'm only afraid that the "broad masses" are unlikely to be delighted . And so you are absolutely right, the stories of all these crocuses, angstroms and microns really deliver ....

[stelltok]

the same AMD sold its FAB in Dresden to the Russian Federation ENTIRELY in 2007, if my memory serves me right)

Is it possible to have a proof? And what is the performance of that FABa?

[frog]

Pilot production of 300mm silicon wafers at AMD Fab 36 is scheduled for mid-2005, and commercial production for the first half of 2006. The production volume will be about 13 thousand silicon wafers per month (Fab 30 currently produces about 2 thousand wafers per week)

This is at the time of the launch of the plant, if sho

[Doccor18]

Quote: your1970

First, the United States and others brought factories to China - for free !!! - trained personnel, and only then China flooded the world with electronics.

So China had nothing before (like the USSR in the late 20s). It's just ridiculous to compare China and Russia in the early 90s. Some had 7 million infantrymen with armored vehicles of the generation before last, while other fighters with a reverse-swept wing were tested ... Three decades passed and voila - "they didn't sell us electronics factories" ... So they already were with us, worked properly, gave products.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: your1970

Why are there electronics - "Opel" promised but did not give ...

What are you whining about? Didn't you protect this system here? You. So now such excuses do not channel.

[your1970]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Quote: your1970

Why are there electronics - "Opel" promised but did not give ...

What are you whining about? Didn't you protect this system here? You. So now such excuses do not channel.

Oh how ....
For you personally - otherwise, some of the Reserve of the Supreme High Command 2 will not reach - I have never praised capitalism.
You will not be able to cite a single quotation of mine praising capitalism.
But since you have one armor in your head - you mine criticism USSR take for praise capitalism.
If you haven’t reached it yet, one of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR was the total concealment of information and criticism.
"If you cover your eyes with your palm, then there will be no problems" (c)
This is about you and the USSR

[KCA]

And where are the Chinese very fashionable weapons? Any barmaley will choose an AK from Izhevsk, before the Chinese, how many engines for fighters did China buy? Could you make copies? Fuck it, China doesn’t have VIAM, MAI, MISiS, AL-41 ceramic blades cannot be repeated, although they bought thousands of engines, you need to have brains and technology, quantity does not always translate into quality

[Stas157]

Quote: KCA

And where are the Chinese very fashionable weapons?

Well, China is in the honorable fifth place in sales of "fashionable" weapons. And its share is growing! And I just cited Chinese electronics as an example. Well, here's another example, Taiwan, it would seem a small country, but now TSMC accounts for 40-65% of the world's revenue in the production of 28-65 nm components. But in the production of high-tech 5-10 nm chips, TSMC already occupies about 90% of the market.

Electronics are not tanks, if robotic production is established and there is demand, then the whole world can be filled up with this electronics.

[KCA]

TSMC is Taiwan, and the Shanets are running to drag their production to the USA, it won’t work out quickly, it’s possible that sabotage will occur at the factories, do you think that Chinese components prevail in the S-400 and S-500? I’ll upset you, we don’t produce processors for 12 cores for toys, but for air defense systems everything is different, a miracle, just a miracle, nanometers are needed for a toy, and micrometers for war, and also algorithms, the basics of brains

[Barberry25]

1) these are machines of different generations and half of those machines that were produced during the war years are, in fact, armored tractors of the T-60 type. Now a tank, even a conventional T-62, is a very complex machine .. and the troops do not need 25 tanks now in year

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Barberry25

and the troops don’t need 25 tanks a year now

And it also doesn’t seem to need drones and high-precision, with other night vision devices and radio stations, judging by what is heard from the front line. Because the situation hasn't changed much in a year.

[Essex62]

That's all you need, but 25000 tanks a year, no. What is the purpose of such an armada? Banderovia to wind on tracks? And you can get by with less, if all of the above is in abundance.

[white260]

And if it were true to create supertank armies? Ahead are all the new 90m + 72b3m + 80m and behind at least T62, from 54 .. each with ten thousand, let’s say three armies .. wouldn’t they break through everything on earth with such masses .. they would crush all the air defense of the Haimars and artillery .. directly crushed everything on earth. The remnants of aviation and all the rear? Of course, our tanks with motorized infantry and all escorts .. especially if they hit the lion.
Tell me (without foul language) not even an expert, but just an inhabitant of the sofa))

[your1970]

Quote from white260

if it were true to create supertank armies? Ahead are all the new 90m + 72b3m + 80m and behind at least T62, from 54 .. each with ten thousand, let’s say three armies .. wouldn’t they break through everything on earth with such masses .. they would crush all the air defense of the Haimars and artillery .. directly crushed everything on earth.

this operation is described in detail a long time ago -
"Inhabited Island" (c) ABS

[frog]

The author did not mention mobile installations with guardsmen))....

[Alf]

Quote: Barberry25

armored tractor type T-60.

??

[Mikhail Krivopalov]

Again, it will, it will, it will, it will... well, it's good if it happens, and it's bad if, as usual, it ends with conversations. We'll see in a year.

[Gardamir]

Yes, by the elections everyone will forget the promise.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Gardamir

Yes, by the elections everyone will forget the promise.

Rather, by the time of surrender, the fucking cosplayers of lost Russia.

[Tagan]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

How many tanks per year did the USSR produce during WW2, when factories worked in 3 shifts?

Completely pointless comparison. With the same success, you can compare the production of plywood aircraft with modern ones.

[Stas157]

Quote: Tagan

Completely pointless comparison.e. With the same success, one can compare the production of plywood aircraft with modern ones.

There is no need to belittle the feat of Soviet workers in the difficult years of the Great Patriotic War. What do you think, was it so easy to release such a number of tanks and aircraft (and bypass Germany and all of Europe in terms of production)?
I doubt very much that the current ones, even with modern equipment (and in comfortable conditions), could produce such a number of TEX tanks.

[your1970]

Quote: Stas157

I doubt very much that the current ones, even with modern equipment (and in comfortable conditions), could produce such a number of TEX tanks.

And this is easy enough to do. NOT comfortable conditions. An article for absenteeism, a ban on dismissal, a work card as a source of survival, greatly enlighten the brain

[Negro]

Quote: your1970

An article for absenteeism, a ban on dismissal, a work card as a source of survival - greatly enlighten the brain

)))
You want a good fate for the Russians. And the Nazis at this time will eat humanitarian jamon, washing down with humanitarian Bavarian.

[frog]

You want a good fate for the Russians.

As one of the past bosses would say - "Trotskyism as it is" . Not to mention the fact that the author of this wonderful message to himself does not try on all these things, of course

[Negro]

Quote: frog

Not to mention the fact that the author of this wonderful message to himself does not try on all these things, of course

This is a common problem. Just as bakers see themselves as counts, not serfs, so couch Stalinists see themselves as Chekists who lived until the age of 53 (by the way, Beria, Merkulov, Abakumov and many others survived, but this did not help them).

[frog]

Hehe... The problem is not who they see themselves as. Maybe they are very nearsighted?
The problem is that both under the counts and under .... replacing them .... petrels)) they will be exactly the same as they are. And in leather jackets or tuxedos there will be all the same. Whom do they dislike...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Negro

Just as bakers see themselves as counts, not serfs, so couch Stalinists see themselves as Chekists who lived to be 53

Sure sure... organizers of an anti-Soviet treacherous group of conspirators, whose criminal goal was to use the organs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs both in the center and in the localities against the Party and its leadership, against the Government of the USSR, to put the Ministry of Internal Affairs over the Party and the Government in order to seize power, eliminate the Soviet system and restore capitalism.

[your1970]

Quote: Negro

Quote: your1970

An article for absenteeism, a ban on dismissal, a work card as a source of survival - greatly enlighten the brain

)))
You want a good fate for the Russians. And the Nazis at this time will eat humanitarian jamon, washing down with humanitarian Bavarian.

Quote: Negro

Quote: frog

Not to mention the fact that the author of this wonderful message to himself does not try on all these things, of course

This is a common problem. Just as bakers see themselves as counts, not serfs, so couch Stalinists see themselves as Chekists who lived until the age of 53 (by the way, Beria, Merkulov, Abakumov and many others survived, but this did not help them).

Somewhat unexpected...
Yes, I'm shocked!!!
Me(!!!!) accused of Stalinism ...

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

[
If they slap you too, I'm ready to endure.

- as the Stalinists said (presumably!) ...
And this is just for answering the question - "How could they produce those tanks in those quantities in the conditions of the Second World War"
WITHOUT TRANSITION TO PRESENT TIMES!!!!!

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Quote: your1970

An article for absenteeism, a ban on dismissal, a work card as a source of survival - greatly enlighten the brain

If they slap you too, I'm ready to endure.

There was such a comrade Bekauri, the father of the Soviet DRONES- Unmanned tanks, planes, ships...
And if its such wiseacres not slapped - it is quite possible that the whole world would buy drones from us now.
But no, he turned out to be an "enemy of the people", yeah yeah ....
And offhand, it was purely by chance that Korolev and Rokosovsky were not slapped.
And they would have slapped - yes, the "spankers" were completely dumb brainless ....

Z.Y.

Quote: frog

As one of the past bosses would say - "Trotskyism as it is" .

- anti-Soviet
and the slander of the USSR is regularly sewn to me, but I have not yet grown up to Trotskyism ....
But ...

[Negro]

Quote: your1970

and the slander of the USSR is regularly sewn to me, but I have not yet grown up to Trotskyism ....
But ...

Friendly fire? Happens. Sorry, anti-Soviet brother.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: your1970

There was such a comrade Bekauri, the father of Soviet DRONES - Unmanned tanks, aircraft, ships ...
And if such smart people hadn’t slapped him, it’s quite possible that the whole world would buy drones from us now.

Comrade Bekauri managed to give the army dozens of weapons, suitable only for maneuvers - "ballet with intermediaries." His wave control torpedo boats showed absolute unsuitability for use at the beginning of the war and were converted back into TKA. Because it turned out that the ship formations of a real, and not an ostentatious enemy, suddenly (!) Have air defense, which made it impossible for aircraft to work with control equipment.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexey RA

Comrade Bekauri managed to give the army dozens of weapons, suitable only for maneuvers - "ballet with intermediaries."

You are on a very slippery slope right now.
UAV fans will stomp on you right now for slandering a holy idea

At that time, the idea was more of a theory than a practice, but if he had remained alive, there would have been a more vigorous development of drones in the USSR ...

[frog]

- anti-Soviet
and the slander of the USSR is regularly sewn to me, but I have not yet grown up to Trotskyism ....
But ...

And you wonder what's there and how ... What Leiba wanted there .... Esssno, all this blue dregs like "permanent revolution" is of little interest. And here's how he saw the structure of the new Russia....From now on, a direct analogy of you with this very Trotskyism. After all, you can not read Karl at all and still be a Marxist. This also applies to other ideologists))....

[your1970]

Quote: frog

And here's how he saw the structure of the new Russia....From now on, a direct analogy of you with this very Trotskyism.

slowly - I gave the methods that have been achieved in 1941-1945

Quote: Stas157

could produce such a number of TECH tanks.

- the release of such a quantity THOSE tanks.
Я NOT(!!!!!!!!) suggested these methods NOW!!
That is why I am accused of anti-Sovietism and denigration of the USSR - and you(!!!!) behind Stalinist (!!!!) accepted....

[frog]

slowly - I gave the methods that were achieved in 1941-1945

No less quickly - we have neither the Great nor the Patriotic, and the third word is not ordered to be remembered aloud)). Therefore, I concluded that you dream of realizing all these passions in peacetime. Like Leiba. If need be, I can go even slower...
Sobssno, I have no illusions about the USSR, which died in the Bose, as well as the Russian Federation that did not die. Therefore, once again I strongly doubt the effectiveness of these methods. The fact that the lower part of the pyramid is put on a chain is a so-so idea, it has been known for a long time. If at the same time the upper part of the pyramid will not sit on the chain. Moreover, if the watchdog is only capable of chaining, to serve on the block, the watchdog and SRSniki are so-so.

[UserGun]

Yes Yes Yes!!! And be sure to shoot! Repeatedly!

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: your1970

An article for absenteeism, a ban on dismissal, a work card as a source of survival - greatly enlighten the brain

If they slap you too, I'm ready to endure.

[Negro]

Quote: Stas157

What do you think, was it so easy to release such a number of tanks and aircraft (and bypass Germany and all of Europe in terms of production)?

Not so difficult. The USSR, for example, could completely abandon the production of trucks - they were given by a kind uncle. The best planning in the world also had an effect: the USSR produced many tanks, but did not produce self-propelled guns and armored personnel carriers at all.

Now you can’t really fight without an armored personnel carrier, and a good uncle (the same one) is on the other side.

At the expense of the whole of Europe, by the way, slow down. The British released BTT about the same as the Reich and the USSR together. Half of this volume is a light armored personnel carrier, but Gorky's ersatz are also included in the Soviet figure.

By the way. Are we seriously now comparing the small victorious SVO and WWII?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Negro

Not so difficult. The USSR, for example, could completely abandon the production of trucks - they were given by a kind uncle.

I will clarify: all-wheel drive trucks. The USSR still produced lorries and ZiS-5.
By the way, the USSR also abandoned the production of light tanks, closing the niche with Lend-Lease. And the LT chassis went under the "three-inch on tracks" - assault SAU.

Quote: Negro

The best planning in the world also had an effect: the USSR produced many tanks, but did not produce self-propelled guns and armored personnel carriers at all.

To clarify: self-propelled guns for fire support. Assault and tank destroyers of the USSR did quite well for themselves.
And with the armored personnel carrier, everything rested on the engine - automobile 120-140 hp were needed. And in this niche, the USSR had a gaping void: the GAZ-202 was weak, the GAZ-203 was too large, the ZIS engine did not go into series, there were not enough GMC diesels even for tractors.

Quote: Negro

The British released BTT about the same as the Reich and the USSR together.

Rather, not the British, but the British. The same Canada also managed to ship its LT to us.

[Negro]

Quote: Alexey RA

Rather, not the British, but the British

Perhaps the Empire as a whole, now I do not remember exactly.

Quote: Alexey RA

fire support self-propelled guns

ACS in the modern sense. Self-propelled howitzers. I do not consider Su-122/Su-152 as such.

Quote: Alexey RA

And with the armored personnel carrier everything rested on the engine

No matter how sick, she died.

Quote: Alexey RA

I will clarify: all-wheel drive trucks

They write that during the war years GAZ produced about 100 thousand vehicles of all types, in addition to BTT.

Quote: Alexey RA

also refused, closing the niche with Lend-Lease.

Valentine and Stuart M5 closed the T-60 niche? Very successful, I think.

Quote: Negro

Beria, Merkulov, Abakumov and many others survived, but it did not help them

Also, I tested poisons on living people, my face is bald!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Negro

ACS in the modern sense. Self-propelled howitzers. I do not consider Su-122/Su-152 as such.

Well, yes, now the self-propelled guns are the diocese of the GAU, fire support with the PDO. And only in some places all sorts of anti-tank guns pop up - the same "Octopus".

Quote: Negro

They write that during the war years GAZ produced about 100 thousand vehicles of all types, in addition to BTT.

Interestingly, the release of the chassis for the BA-64 is included in this figure. And then after all, another niche closed by LL is 4x4 cars.

Quote: Negro

Valentine and Stuart M5 closed the T-60 niche?

And the T-70 with the T-80 too. The late "Valya" with a six-pounder was not in vain considered our best LT.

[Negro]

Quote: Alexey RA

And the T-70 with the T-80 too. The late "Valya" with a six-pounder was not in vain considered our best LT.

You don't seem to get the irony. Valya and Stuart were much closer to the top three than to the T-60/70. And the late Valya could have a 75mm Sherman cannon (and a half-Sherman diesel), and in what form it was a complete analogue of the T-34-76. Only one and a half times lighter and not the legendary best tank of the war.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Negro

You don't seem to get the irony.

Completely caught. For we have always classified the half-cardboard T-60 and the “underdone” “Valentine” (with its 60 mm of armor) into the same category of LT.

Quote: Negro

Valya and Stuart were much closer to the top three than to the T-60/70.

And then the GABTU had seen enough of the "Valentine" - and well, scribble TTT on light tanks with 75 and 90 mm armor.

[Alf]

Quote: Negro

The British released BTT about the same as the Reich and the USSR together.

USSR about 100.
Reich approximately 53.
UK and Canada 25116+23246.
Doesn't beat...

[frog]

From July 1939 to May 1945, Great Britain produced 27 tanks and self-propelled guns, as well as 528 armored cars and 26 armored personnel carriers.

I agree, it doesn't hit

[Negro]

Quote: Alf

UK and Canada 25116+23246.
Doesn't beat...

Perhaps the trouble is that you counted only tanks among the British.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_armoured_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II
By the way, the Germans also have a figure similar to "tanks and self-propelled guns"

I write about BTT in general. The USSR had a high production in terms of the shaft of tanks and self-propelled guns, but in terms of the nomenclature it was, frankly, not brilliant - and Lend-Lease only partly made up for the shortage of auxiliary equipment.

[Alf]

Quote: Negro

Perhaps the trouble is that you counted only tanks among the British

Agree. But did you write BTT? I thought that was ALL.

Quote: Negro

but according to the nomenclature it was frankly not brilliant

Yes, you can’t argue against the facts, according to the armored personnel carrier it was not that bad, but not at all.

[Negro]

Quote: Alf

But it was you who wrote BTT

Armored vehicles, Armored and tank vehicles (BTT, also armored vehicles) - combat and auxiliary [1] (special) armored military vehicles (equipment) created on the basis (chassis) of BTT or intended for their maintenance (as on a wheeled [2], and on caterpillar tracks [1], some unarmored, see below), including railway ones.

Quote: Alf

according to the armored personnel carrier, it was not that bad, but not at all.

Not only with armored personnel carriers.

[Tagan]

Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov

Again, it will, it will, it will, it will... well, it's good if it happens, and it's bad if, as usual, it ends with conversations. We'll see in a year.

It was recently announced from the lips of the management that about 30 units are allegedly being produced daily.

[1 z1]

1000 per month? Not bad . How do sausages stick

[Sergey250455]

125 per month. Even if divided by 30 days, it turns out 4 per day

[UserGun]

From the lips of the leadership, a lot of things were announced ...) For example, about the inadmissibility of raising the retirement age ...

[lopvlad]

In conditions when the West plans to deliver to Ukraine this year at least about half a thousand combat units of this class alone, not including other vehicles, forced production is simply necessary in the near future.

Well, not the minimum, but the maximum that the West can deliver in a year is no more than 450 pieces of "motley and assorted tanks." For example, in the Russian army in 2022, when our military-industrial complex was just switching to military rails, more than 400 T- 90M.
By the end of this year, I think we will reach almost two thousand tanks.

[BARKAS]

The production of ATGMs also needs to be increased without them, our tankers will have a hard time if supplies of Western tanks continue.

[Egor Adashev]

Interestingly, can 80ku be produced from scratch, especially if it is finished to the level of a "breakthrough"? I kind of like them..

[Alf]

Quote: Egor Adashev

Interestingly, can 80ku be produced from scratch, especially if it is finished to the level of a "breakthrough"?

Can. If they find someone GTD will do.

[Essex62]

And stick a diesel instead of a turbine? Like, on the outskirts, they did.

[Alf]

Quote: Essex62

And stick a diesel instead of a turbine? Like, on the outskirts, they did.

In Ukraine, they made a boxer diesel, no one else does this, and the standard V-2 will not fit there.

[Konnick]

They plan 1500-1600 .... And how much did they produce in 2022? 1500? 150? So we don't know? Where do the numbers come from, from Medvedev's head? Putin?

[Skobaristan]

So you won't know. Why simplify the work of intelligence.

[Mazunga]

yes, don’t take it to heart))) we and the next generation of Soviet people lived under communism and apartment-2000, the same people rivet a certain amount and it’s nice, but it’s better not to get attached to the numbers, the numbers blur their eyes))

[your1970]

Quote: Konnick

They plan 1500-1600 .... And how much did they produce in 2022? 1500? 150? So we don't know? Where do the numbers come from, from Medvedev's head? Putin?

Well why, for some types it is known

Quote: lopvlad

For example, more than 400 T-90M tanks.

[bk316]

So we don't know?

Why don't you know?
Just for the year 22 and UVZ, the number is known T-90M 400 pcs.

[vadim dok]

Actually, Putin said: 1500 tanks in THREE years!

[Alf]

Quote: vadim dok

Actually, Putin said: 1500 tanks in THREE years!

And Medvedev said about 1600 NEW tanks ..

One is about NEW tanks, the other is about NEW and MODERNIZED ... Even here they can’t agree ...

[Essex62]

Medvedev is a political officer, he is supposed to raise the morale of the l / s. The commander said three years, so three.

[Egor Adashev]

By the way, do you hear something on the BMP, will they make new ones or do they think they will take it out for 1/2?

[1 z1]

By the way, yes. No praise is heard either for the production of artillery systems or other armored vehicles.

[Tiksi-3]

make at least 30-50 armats, 50-100 kurgans and boomerangs ....... and all this to the front, they must pass the test

[Nikolaevich I]

Where does this "diversity" come from? After all, already "from above" it was said "simply and clearly"! "All this one and a half thousand" splendor" will be T-90M and T-72B3M!" Get the assortment! Do not believe the decision of the "party and leadership" of our "state and country"? Oh well !

[fiberboard]

It seems to me that it is necessary to clearly separate the produced tanks and those taken from storage and modernized. And then we will release 1500 tanks. Of these, 200 were actually produced, and 1300 were tanks taken from storage, the country's galoshes,,. And where, finally, are these already legendary ,, Almaty ,,? The best test of a tank is a fight with a similar tank. So we would see how ,, Armata ,, will fight with ,, Abram ,, and ,, Leopard ,,.

[UserGun]

Do you think that after conservation 20-30 years ago, such a machine will simply take it, start up and go into battle?! ))) Well, well ... No, well, if Medvedev himself told you about it ...)))
Have you tried to start a car that has stood at least a few years in the garage? Others even start up, only after a rather short time something is sure to randomly fail) For example, a plastic part, a rubber seal will crumble) It seems like a trifle, but the machine does not go! And yes, in order to replace it, it is sometimes necessary to disassemble the entire product)))

[alexmach]

For example, a plastic part will crumble, a rubber seal)

Well, according to the standards for removing equipment from storage, all rubber parts are actually replaced. But if the standard of labor costs for the ZIL-133 removed from storage was, if my memory serves me, either 24 or 48 man-hours, well, try to produce the product from scratch during this time ..

This is if we are just talking about decommissioning, of course, in reality, decommissioned machines in our conditions also need repair of one degree or another of capitalization, and modernization. This all certainly takes more time, but still less than the production of a product from scratch.

[parusnik]

You can say one SVO, for a long time, if everything is not resolved in 2024, and not resolved, then for the next four years.

[agond]

Nothing is said about the release of self-propelled guns, and it is already clear to everyone that in addition to the usual 152mm, special assault self-propelled guns of increased caliber are also required, capable of laying down a house with one or two shots

[Alf]

Quote: agond

Nothing is said about the release of self-propelled guns, and it is already clear to everyone that in addition to the usual 152mm, special assault self-propelled guns of increased caliber are also required, capable of laying down a house with one or two shots

First smart comment! Something like Sturmtigr, who leveled a multi-storey building with one shot.

[Negro]

Quote: parusnik

if everything is not resolved in 2024, and if it is not resolved, then for the next four years.

What will happen in 2024? Elections in America?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: parusnik

for the next four years.

With an incomprehensible result in the end. For the towers of the Kremlin, such towers.

[white260]

We will endure for another six months .. and then there will be a victory. At least, I sincerely hope that we have harnessed it for a long time.
And let's go fast.

[Tagan]

Quote: UserGun

From the lips of the leadership, a lot of things were announced ...) For example, about the inadmissibility of raising the retirement age ...

That's why I wrote "supposedly".

[Tagan]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: Tagan

Completely pointless comparison.e. With the same success, one can compare the production of plywood aircraft with modern ones.

There is no need to belittle the feat of Soviet workers in the difficult years of the Great Patriotic War. What do you think, was it so easy to release such a number of tanks and aircraft (and bypass Germany and all of Europe in terms of production)?

Where did I question the feat of the Soviet people?
I think you figured it out yourself.
Isn't it obvious that some people try to compare the incomparable?

[Sharky]

Yes, and there is hope that with the production of Sosny-U and, for example, a deeper refinement of the security of the T-62, things will somehow settle down, and measures will be taken.

TPV Sosna-U - development of Belarusian designers of the Peleng enterprise (Minsk). However, due to various agreements, the sight is produced in Russia by the Vologda enterprise VOMZ.
https://topwar.ru/16618-mnogokanalnoe-teplovizionnoe-pricelnoe-prisposoblenie-navodchika-sosna-u.html
Interestingly, "Sosna-U" is only a development of Belarusian specialists or is it also a production? If production has been established in the Republic of Belarus, then the question arises why we do not buy there?
I would like to know more about this.

[Zaurbek]

I don’t know how many T62s are left, but they need a modern version like the Turkish M60 .... They will remain after the war and you can always supply them with allies like ATS. But the Turks are modernizing with all the money and modern shells and communications and optics and remote sensing. We have neither modern BOPS for 115mm and 100mm guns, nor modern ATGMs, nor optics. It's good that at least they took up the T72.

[alexmach]

and communication

By the way, about communication, there is not a word about communication in the material, and after all, old Soviet radio stations are also installed on the "mobilization" versions of cars ...

Communication is a very, very trouble, even on expensive equipment, we don’t even talk about infantry units.

[Zaurbek]

The Turks even make a mast with optics on the M60.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: alexmach

Speaking of communication, there is not a word about communication in the material

And there is nothing about the T-54 55 either. And once we laughed at the DP and the Maxims among the Ukrainians.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

By the way, I personally did not laugh. Because, for example, the British adopted the first SSBN earlier than they removed the Maximka from service.

[alexmach]

And there is nothing about the T-54 55 either

In fairness, where and why they were taken, we do not know.

[Maks1995]

The author did not answer the main statement: is it realistic or not to release 1500 new tanks in a year?
3 months have already passed, count
the text is just a summarized listing of tanks and upgrades, which, as it were, is good, but it happened many times before.

[blackGRAIL]

Answered. New - not really. In total, giving the front tanks is real. Up to 500 pcs. T-90M *taking into account modernization, there are apparently fewer purely new ones), 800 pcs. T-62 (contract for 3 years, 250...300 pieces per year), modernization of T-72B3 and T-80BVM up to 1000 pieces.

The main tank of this war (as well as of the "pre-war" period) will remain the T-72B3, the production of the T-90M has been increased and the tank will take the 2nd place in the RF Armed Forces, the T80BVM will drop to the 3rd place. And against this background, we are seeing desperate measures like the T-62M (which will approach the T-80BVM in number).

[ism_ek]

The author confuses "a dog with a bicycle". The plant in Atamansk is small, and UVZ is a monster in which 50 tons of people work in Tagil alone. There are two conveyor lines. On one they make wagons, on parallel tanks. So UVZ produces 15 tons of wagons. in year. A tank is certainly more complicated than a wagon, but there is no abyss between them. The main snag in the accessories.

[Alf]

Quote: ism_ek

A tank is certainly more complicated than a wagon, but there is no abyss between them.

And in qualified assemblers, it is "somewhat" more difficult to assemble a tank than a wagon ...

[Russian Patriot]

It is what it is. It is only unclear where so many tanks in storage came from, if the USSR produced only galoshes, which were needed only in Africa.

[sergej_84]

1500 tanks per year: what will our factories produce for the special operation fronts

For information - in the USSR for 14 years (1962 - 1975) three plants (Uralvagonzavod in Nizhny Tagil, the Malyshev plant in Kharkov and plant No. 183 in Omsk), working according to the Soviet continuous schedule, produced 20 T-000 tanks, that is approximately 62 tanks per year.

[sergej_84]

Given this figure, individuals who have retained the ability to independently analyze, taking into account the difference in the technological level of the T-62 and T-72 - T-90 tanks, can estimate the reality of "1500 tanks per year."

[Postcode]

For information: in three months of 1941, at Uralvagonzavod, where only cars were made, they launched the production of T 34, including using the capacities of evacuated tank factories. The fact that we need tanks, a lot of tanks, a lot of tanks, became clear already in August-September 2022...

[spektr9]

For information - in the USSR for 14 years (1962 - 1975) three plants (Uralvagonzavod in Nizhny Tagil, the Malyshev plant in Kharkov and plant No. 183 in Omsk), working according to the Soviet continuous schedule, produced 20 T-000 tanks, that is approximately 62 tanks per year.

Well, no need to mislead, there are only t-72s during the period of mass assembly, at one Uralvagonzavod, they collected 1500 pieces

So really 1 plant in the USSR produced such a number of tanks

[Sergey Venediktov]

For history

A tank conveyor is more difficult than tank development

[Pavel57]

By the way, until recently, the wording “made from scratch” did not completely fit the T-90M: for the production of these tanks, a backlog of a couple of hundred units from the T-90 chassis was used.

Will the towers go anywhere?

[dump22]

The question is not how many tanks to produce per year.

The question is how many resources (including tanks) the military needs to achieve their goals.
And from here the MOST important question arises - what are the goals set for them?
Does anyone know this?

Hold back the offensive of Ukraine?
Liberate the entire Donbass?
Occupy Kyiv?
Get to Lviv?
No one has made an official announcement.
But only depending on the goal, you need to evaluate whether it is a lot or a little, about 1500 tanks a year.

For now, one thing can be said for sure. Since the production of tanks is indicated "per year", then most likely there are plans for military operations at least until the end of the year.

[Postcode]

The question is how many resources (including tanks) the military needs to achieve their goals.

It’s not entirely correct, personally, the military themselves don’t need anything, in fact, they were generally satisfied with the situation until February 23, 2022 inclusive))) The state must decide what it wants, clearly and clearly, and then the military will come and say, what and how much they need for this.
1500 is not how much you need, but how much they can, or rather, they will try to be able to. Conventionally, if tomorrow (God forbid), NATO announces a decision to send 1.5 million of its forces and assets to Ukraine, will this somehow affect the number of tanks that we will produce / modernize?))))) No, of course .. .

[dump22]

Conventionally, if tomorrow (God forbid), NATO announces a decision to send 1.5 million of its grouping of forces and means to Ukraine,

Well, they won’t send that much for sure.
1.5 million is more than all the ground forces of all NATO countries combined.
In the largest land army of NATO, in the United States, there are only 460 under arms.

[frog]

Mmm .... Natochka's ground forces - approximately 1,3 million. Approximately. Air Force and Navy - essno, separately.
But so, if suddenly)) - a quarter of half a ra lemons may well

[dump22]

a quarter of one and a half lemons may well

1.5mln/4=375k

Now this looks more like reality.
If they strain, then they will probably be able to do so much.
Against Iraq in 2003, they were able to assemble a coalition with a total number of 337 thousand, although only half directly participated in the hostilities, the rest were as a reserve and support.

[frog]

Yes. Only to this it is necessary to add the Air Force involved in the operation, the sailors, will be added. Well, you should not forget the APU either - they will still be on the same side))

[Postcode]

You have very bad data))) One US Marine Corps has more than 180 people, more than 000 million military personnel in the US Armed Forces, up to 1.2 people are called up for reservist training every month, the total mob reserve is about 140 .... therefore, if necessary, within three months only the United States is able to increase the European grouping in the region of 000 million people.

[Negro]

Quote from Cap

able to increase the European grouping in the region of 1 million people.

What for?

If it comes down to it, two corps, the northern one (a pair of American divisions + 4 Polish, + Baltic brigades, + air wing + naval strike group) and the southern (a pair of American divisions + 2 Romanian + APU + air wing + naval strike group). Already this alignment is enough to solve any problems.

[dump22]

military personnel in the US Armed Forces more than 1.2 million people

460 thousand ground troops
180 thousand marines
And almost everything, there are no other really combat-ready forces there.

Yes, there is also the Navy, the Air Force, the Space Force and the Coast Guard, but they will not be sent to fight in Ukraine?

Of course, there is also the National Guard (there are more than 400 thousand of them), but there are really no real military there, these are auxiliary forces (the National Guard goes through only 192 hours of military training per year).

total mob reserve is about 850....

This is generally on paper, these are not yet trained people.
There is no conscription there, it's just the total number of people who signed a conditional contract for military service.

[1 z1]

That's why we have a conscription and an army of 1,2 million and 1,5 million "warrior" sets (that is, not just uniforms, but sets with all the goodies), etc., etc. And most importantly, everything is not on paper ....
Off topic, just aches and pains.

[Postcode]

Once again, you know very little of the US Armed Forces, the structure, the principle of training, including the reserve))))

[Alf]

Quote from Cap

within three months, only the United States is able to increase the European grouping in the region of 1 million people.

Will they be able to ship within 3 months?

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

The Foreign Ministry has just once again spoken out. There are 10 points. Eight points - capitulation of Ukraine according to the type of the Treaty of Versailles, and two more points are turned to the West.

[dump22]

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs once again spoke out. There are 10 points.

If you are talking about an interview with Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Galuzin, then there is nothing concrete there. Again fog about "demilitarization and denazification".

... As for us, I can only say one thing: we will not tolerate the existence of an openly anti-Russian state on our borders, whatever its borders may be ...

This sounds frivolous against the background of the accelerated accession of Finland to NATO.

[Negro]

Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel

The Foreign Ministry has just once again spoken out. There are 10 points. Eight points - capitulation of Ukraine according to the type of the Treaty of Versailles, and two more points are turned to the West.

The next speeches of the next deputy Lavrov on the topic "NATO go home" (by the way, Lavrov has 10 deputies, you can hold a whole unauthorized rally or play football) only mean that he sees no point in ending the NMD of the Russian Federation. It's not exactly news. For the same reason, the Chinese cat Leopold was lost somewhere. No one is going to live together yet.
It is more interesting that in recent days the Russian Federation has allowed itself, so to speak, to go beyond the limits of international politeness, and twice in a row. Let's see if there is an answer.

[Proctologist]

Quote from Mizerbal

If the entire population of the country ... then they will be able to produce commensurate with the Soviet Union

In addition to the industrial power of the USSR, which was not quite comparable with today's Russia, with the already militarized economy of the 1940s, there was also lend-lease. Lend-lease is still working, of course, but ... there is a nuance.

One well-known historian estimated lend-lease for the USSR at 7%. It is quite possible that this is a correct estimate - it depends on the method of calculation. For example, buttons are less than 7% of the price of a suit. However, without buttons, the suit will not work very well. Like a cartridge without gunpowder.

Here is the opinion of Georgy Zhukov: We didn't have explosives or gunpowder. There was nothing to equip rifle cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder and explosives. And how much they drove us sheet steel! How could we quickly start producing tanks if it weren't for American help with steel? We received 350 thousand cars, but what cars! Without them, we would have nothing to carry our artillery on. They generally provided our front-line transport. And high-octane gasoline for MiGs. Now they represent the matter in such a way that we had all this in abundance.
https://www.gazeta.ru/science/2020/08/20_a_13204369.shtml

So, without having its own production of electronics, with the military-industrial complex destroyed and plundered by "effective managers", having no supplies from the allies of key components (China is not an ally, Iran is still an ally), the Russian Federation will have a harder time in 2023 than the USSR in 1941- 42, if you look at things soberly, and not through the prism of the TV.

[Kostadinov]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

How many tanks per year did the USSR produce during WW2, when factories worked in 3 shifts?

In 1944, about 30 thousand tanks and self-propelled guns were produced with very good performance for that time. We prepared the crews for them, supplied them with ammunition, fuel and lubricants, mastered spare parts and repairs.

[Chack wessel]

Quote: your1970

And this is done quite easily - NOT comfortable conditions are enough. An article for absenteeism, a ban on dismissal, a work card as a source of survival, greatly enlighten the brain

And create a revolutionary situation. :)

[your1970]

Quote: Chack Wessel

Quote: your1970

And this is done quite easily - NOT comfortable conditions are enough. An article for absenteeism, a ban on dismissal, a work card as a source of survival, greatly enlighten the brain

And create a revolutionary situation. :)

And was in 1940- 1945 about which I wrote a revolutionary situation?
Looks like no, huh???

[vsart]

Bears are not afraid of gays." It's time to give the tanks a serious name. The T-90M "Breakthrough" sounds and looks solid - in the Soviet way. Will it fight with "Leopards"? And the satanic "Abrams" cannot be avoided ...

For five centuries Europe has been conquering Rus',
Poles, Swedes, Germans, Saxons were also French ...
The bowels, lands and forests do not give them rest,
And the Russian spirit interferes with them, and Vera, and the Victory of the Muse.

Again the call of Victory over the Motherland is heard!
The insidious West "came with a sword" again.
And again the blood is shed on the land of the ancestors.
And Russian anger again burns with fire!

stihi.ru/2016/02/23/8050

[AlexWar]

The repair of old tanks must begin with just those bad tanks that are in warehouses. Because, now while the industry is still doing something, they need to be repaired, and not to chase the number of tanks made, and then most of them will be those that will be difficult to restore when attacking our country
The armored factories were closed, yesterday they still had to be modernized.
It is quite possible to make old tanks modern, we will also supply a new engine, a new gun and aiming aids. Take the example of the Great Patriotic War, when the T-34 turret was replaced, during the war it changed several times. Now they are trying to hang something on these towers, isn’t it easier to cast these towers, remove the old ones, screw on what’s left or put a new one

[Alf]

Quote from Alexwar

we will supply a new engine, a new gun and aiming aids.

Quote from Alexwar

cast the towers, remove the old ones, screw what is left or put a new one

But before that, build factories that will release all this ...

[Illanatol]

Quote from Mizerbal

If the entire population of the country agrees to live as our ancestors lived during the Great Patriotic War, then they will be able to produce commensurate with the Soviet Union

Definitely - no.
The technique has become more complex and time-consuming to manufacture.
Moreover, in the Second World War, tanks were also produced at car factories, which is simply impossible at present.

[Illanatol]

Quote: frog

Mmm .... Natochka's ground forces - approximately 1,3 million. Approximately. Air Force and Navy - essno, separately.

On paper.
The Turks can be immediately crossed out, they are not, to intermeddle in such an adventure.
The Germans and others ... they will immediately write a leave, it is not clear why there are no fools there. They are not Poles, but quite sane Europeans.

[frog]

Well, "on paper" we also have a lot of things ... it was. Not to mention the fact that we are talking about purely theoretical delights)). how much, de jure, they can jack up if the sho... is real, kegebically, somewhat different. without going far, one can recall the current sanctions)) ...

[Illanatol]

Quote: sergej_84

For information - in the USSR for 14 years (1962 - 1975) three plants (Uralvagonzavod in Nizhny Tagil, the Malyshev plant in Kharkov and plant No. 183 in Omsk), working according to the Soviet continuous schedule, produced 20 T-000 tanks, that is approximately 62 tanks per year.

According to the peacetime schedule, that is, 30% of production capacity.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Alf

Can. If they find someone GTD will do.

T-80D had a diesel engine. What's stopping them from releasing?

[Alf]

Quote: Illanatol

Quote: Alf

Can. If they find someone GTD will do.

T-80D had a diesel engine. What's stopping them from releasing?

The absence of these very specific diesels.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Alexey RA

I will clarify: all-wheel drive trucks. The USSR still produced lorries and ZiS-5.
By the way, the USSR also abandoned the production of light tanks, closing the niche with Lend-Lease.

The ZiS-5 was not inferior to all-wheel drive trucks in terms of cross-country ability, it was simpler and more reliable.

Light tanks in the second half of the Second World War were no longer particularly needed and had limited use. Considering how many T-60s and T-70s had already been produced, further production made no sense.

Quote: Alexey RA

To clarify: self-propelled guns for fire support.

In the USSR, they relied on "artillery tanks". Such was the IS-2, which turned out to be a multifunctional machine.

[Alf]

Quote: Illanatol

The ZiS-5 was not inferior to all-wheel drive trucks in terms of cross-country ability, it was simpler and more reliable.

Tell that to Studebaker and White...

[Kostadinov]

Quote: Proctologist

One well-known historian estimated lend-lease for the USSR at 7%. It is quite possible that this is a correct estimate - it depends on the method of calculation. For example, buttons are less than 7% of the price of a suit. However, without buttons, the suit will not work very well. Like a cartridge without gunpowder.

1. If someone delivers buttons and gunpowder to you, this does not mean that you are not capable of producing them yourself or finding another supplier.
The production of the USSR was planned from lend-lease, because the allies beat such people and could deliver it. With a different political configuration and alliances in the world, other deliveries could be found or produce themselves or replace what is missing.
2. Lend-lease is not more than 5% of the Soviet BVP for the period 1940-44 and this is easy to calculate. We take the period 1940-44 because the production of 1940 was used at the beginning, and the production of 1945, including lend-lease 1945, did not reach the battlefield.
Lend-lease at current prices is about 10 billion dollars. The US BVP for the period 1940-44 is about 800 billion dollars. The GNP of the USSR is at least one quarter of the GNP of the USA, or about 200 billion dollars.
Lend-lease - 10/200 = 5% of the BVP of the USSR.

[Negro]

Quote: Kostadinov

The GNP of the USSR is at least one quarter of the GNP of the USA, or about 200 billion dollars.

How did you calculate this?

[Alf]

Quote: Kostadinov

If someone delivers buttons and gunpowder to you, this does not mean that you are not capable of making them yourself or finding another delivery man.

Until the 43rd year, the USSR produced 40% of gunpowder, 60% was supplied by the allies. After the 43rd, the picture changed diametrically, 60% of the powder was ours, 40% was brought by the allies. As if there were no other suppliers.

Quote: Kostadinov

With a different political configuration and alliances in the world, other deliveries could be found or they produce themselves

Remember the history of the magnificent GAZ-61-417 jeep. Why didn’t they do it, the car was awesome how in demand ...

[Kovalenko_Ilya]

That's right, Lend-Lease certainly provided significant support in the implementation of our Victory. But was it decisive - definitely not!

[AlexanderD]

4000 thousand tanks per month could be produced by the USSR

[Frank Muller]

They wait for the promised three years, but they do not always wait. (Russian proverb).

[Denis812]

There are some malicious tricks here that require Russia to produce as many tanks as the USSR produced.
I note:
1. Russia is not the USSR in terms of its production potential.
2. Tanks of the T90M type, to put it mildly, are not T-34s, and expecting their production in the amount of thousands per month is nonsense
3. Russia is not officially at war and has not put its economy on a war footing. If this were done, I think that 90% of the audience would stupidly not have anything to pay for the Internet and sit on topware.

The apologists screwed up. You either take off the cross, or put on your shorts.

[dementor873]

AvtoVAZ could not be reanimated in a year so that they would give a car, but then they decided to give out a bunch of tanks. Oh well.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Alf

Tell that to Studebaker and White...

I don't see the need. The Wehrmacht soldiers also appreciated the high cross-country ability of the Sidor, so they willingly used captured vehicles, although they themselves had an Opel Blitz.

[Chack wessel]

Quote: Alexey RA

Because it turned out that the ship formations of a real, and not an ostentatious enemy, suddenly (!) Have air defense, which made it impossible for aircraft to work with control equipment.

The presence of air defense, somehow, did not prevent the Germans and Americans from using drones ... No, well, that is, it interfered, but somehow the Germans and Americans somehow bypassed it ... And the strange logic of reasoning, i.e. Does it interfere with air defense drones, but does it interfere with conventional aircraft?
P.S. Although, of course, Bekauri was still that cupcake.

[Oleg Zorin]

[quote regarding the military-industrial complex] [/ quote] Are you sure you write in Russian?

[storm]

Based on the results of this article, it turns out that our armed forces can count on the following armored vehicles:
1. New tanks:
- 300 max 400 units T-90M Proryv-3.
That's all.
Omsktransmash could still work and release a hundred new Obekt 292 assault tanks (a modernized T-80 with a 152-mm caliber gun).
Total: 500 units of new tanks / year if all reserves are very strained.

2. Upgraded tanks
T-72M3M from 300 to 500 units/year.
T-80 BVM no more than 300 units.
T-62M - 270 units.
Total: 870-1070 units upgraded tanks.

Three regional tank repair plants (ZVO, SVO, TsVO) are sorely lacking for the modernization of the T-72 with a total capacity of up to 1000 units. /year.
At the same time, it would be possible to unload UVZ and, due to the freed up resources, increase the production of new T-90Ms to 500 units / year.

3. I really would not want to upgrade the BMP-2 under the BEREZHOK program and release the BMP-3 further.
We need a new BMP-4 in a huge for the Russian, but usual for the Soviet military-industrial complex, the amount of 1000 units. / year, with protection in a circle from 30 mm ammunition, DZ and KAZ, with an airborne squad for 10 fighters in full gear, with a rear landing ramp, with a remote weapon station and ammunition in an armored turret.
4. I hope the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant will begin serial production of Boomerangs, primarily in the BMP modification.
Need - 1000 units. /year.
5. The modernization of the BMP - 1/2, MT-Lb, BTR-70/80, BRDM and other lightly armored vehicles should be carried out by the district factories for the repair of light armored vehicles, which the newly-minted managers from the military-industrial complex have long ruined and sold, and now they urgently need to be restored in mode 1941.
6. KAMAZ and the Miass Ural Automobile Plant should actively join the mass production of armored vehicles, and the bill should go to thousands of copies ...

[Sokolovsky_Yan]

The key words are "will" and "should". In the meantime, T - 55). A great geostrategist can promise anything, after all, it is not for him to burn in these tanks.

[Dmitry Zozulya]

There will be no positive progress. T90m simply cannot be riveted in the required quantities. If there are not enough sights for everyone, then what are they going to make the T90 from? So it’s unlikely there will be more than a few dozen of them. What is important is that they will most likely be modernized, with old buildings from storage, otherwise our Ministry of Defense (as always) will be afraid of the price and will not purchase these machines. Plus, there are a number of questions about the situation at UVZ itself. The T72 and T80 were hopelessly outdated in terms of their armor characteristics by 2010. It is necessary to increase the reservation of at least the frontal projections by at least 40 mm. The main armor-piercing shell of these tanks also raises questions: Mango of all modifications. They became obsolete in the last century. Only lead meets modern requirements, but the tower needs to be modernized to accommodate it. I'm not even talking about the fact that all modernizations will be carried out on old hulls, because, for example, UVZ can no longer cast turrets for the T72.
And if you don’t want to catch the Spanish shame, then it’s better not to look towards the T62. You will sleep more peacefully.

[Gromovanton]

There are no objective reasons preventing the creation of new capacities with an increase in the production of all components for tanks by 3 times - the only question is a political decision and money, of course.
The second factor is reducing losses due to
a) proper operation = training + mat incentives + availability of spare parts
b) competent use = training of crews and the ability to command for combined arms commanders
c) cover = air defense + electronic warfare + infantry + UAV + communication with intelligence data