Do not want to serve - pay to the treasury!

120
According to official data published by the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office and the Ministry of Defense, in our country in 2012, about 235 thousands of so-called draft dodgers were recorded. In this case, evaders are understood to be young people between the ages of 18 and 27 years who use various means and methods to avoid military conscription, and this kind of evasion is in no way connected with official deferments from military service, or alternative civil service. Taking into account the fact that the strength of the Russian army sounded by the authorities should be 1 a million military personnel, the number of draft dodgers looks really impressive. This is a full-fledged problem, which at one, far from perfect, moment can turn into a problem of national security. After all, if you think about it, it turns out that the number of draft dodgers may well exceed the number of those who are ready to fulfill their constitutional duty to protect the Fatherland. This by itself leads to the stratification of society, to the growth of internal tension, to bitterness in the civilian environment. Even among those young people who are ready to turn into 12 months into the Russian army, there may be fair claims to the state's conscription and law enforcement activities, which often quite selectively act in terms of implementing the doctrine for staffing military units with draftees.

The controversy of the situation is that some of the state have responsibilities, while others have the ability to ignore their obligations. What is the reason for this differentiation? One may speak about the inexpressive moral character of modern youth, its unprincipledness, but nevertheless the main reason for inequality before the law is corruption scattered around. It is precisely bribery, starting with district medical conscription commissions and military commissariats, and ending with higher-facing spheres, that is the reason why the horde of draft dodgers is growing despite the voiced actions to improve the appearance of the army and increase the prestige of military service.

The Russian legislative system is filled with proposals that would allow to attract young people of military age to the army service - to fulfill those duties that are enshrined in the fundamental law of the Russian Federation. There are a lot of proposals, but so far the legislative machine is not particularly turning in this regard, which makes it possible for thousands of dodgers sounded by 235 to use loopholes to avoid service in the army.

Based on this, it would be interesting to consider one of the proposals, which has recently been expressed quite often by members of the public, as well as domestic legislators. This sentence can be characterized in a military way briefly: “If you don’t want to serve, pay!”

“What does it mean to“ pay ”?!” - excessively democratized strata of the population will be screaming. “By what kind of such a right ?!” - they will be repeated by numerous representatives of foundations, commissions, legal groups who frankly feed on the field of so-called “legal assistance” to deviationists of all stripes. Help those same people who do not want to tear their soft spots away from warm and familiar places, frightened to the horror by literally “inhuman” conditions of service, oppression by commanders, and almost everyday torture in the barracks.

But the idea of ​​a legitimate opportunity not to go into the army only at first glance looks somewhat unfounded. After all, if a young man declares that he does not want to go to work, because he is afraid of losing a prestigious job or his professional (acting, musical, mathematical and other) skills and talents, then for God's sake! - It is possible to finance those who are going to go through this very military service. In other words, the official redemption from the army (however slippery this term may sound) on the part of some could rather actively stimulate other young people in terms of the fulfillment of constitutional duty. Indeed, in this case, the army treasury could be replenished with the help of the very "yesterday's" draft dodgers. Such a solution must be linked with the increase in the material allowance of those who are going to serve under the contract. This would give the necessary impetus to solving the problem with a short supply of professional military personnel of Russian military units.

Someone will call the official offensive from the army a new version of the medieval indulgences, when for a certain amount the Christian church gave sins to those who wanted it. Of course, you can compare as many times as you like, but only the army is not a Christian church, and its funding is based on the payment of taxes by Russian citizens, and not on donations. Therefore, it would be possible to talk about morality in this regard if we had built an absolutely transparent system in which all young people of military age (except those suffering from certain diseases) gave their military duty to the state in which they live. But so far, unfortunately, there is no such system. And if so, then it is completely incomprehensible on what basis a certain stratum of people on a permanent basis declares their rights, but for some reason, without a twinge of conscience, is silent about their duties. If such people are accustomed to measuring relations with the people around only money, then let the official payment for the opportunity to stay at home and not go to the recruiting office will become a kind of military indulgence. And let this paper that the “sitting on the stove” is paid for is stored in a prominent place, better framed on the wall, so that everyone can see the joy for those who, instead of a given citizen, are studying the charter, are engaged in marching and spend day and night scheduled firing.

Someone will say: but let me, perhaps the introduction of the official opportunity to pay off from the military service is no reason to talk about a new round of corruption. Like, if you force the draft dodgers to pay a substantial amount for their unwillingness to perform the constitutional duty, then the same military commissariats can quickly adapt themselves to corruption and under these figures. They decide to collect a lump sum of half a million-million, which means that bribe-takers will have a chance to demand a smaller or three-fold amount in envelopes. The average deviationist, as well as the family of the average deviationist, clearly do not want to part with an impressive amount, if you can “put it where it is necessary” (for a medical examination, for example) a smaller amount ...

This is really a problem. Can you solve it? Can! To do this, of course, you have to sweat: go on the path of attracting third-party experts to the same medical call-up commission, and not just the doctors of the district polyclinics, so that the diagnosis, giving the right to avoid military service, was confirmed by several specialists. At the same time, the district military commissariats need to establish closer cooperation with educational institutions in order to identify the presence of students who use their status for an endless game of "cat-and-mouse". After all, it is no secret that it is often Russian universities, the number of which is infinite, filling their lists with “dead souls” who haven’t been attending classes for years, but receive a deferment from service as students of higher educational institutions. Under the conditions of rigid per capita financing at educational institutions of various levels, each rector (director) tries, among other things, to artificially inflate the number of his students. Obviously, for dodgers of various suits, this is a loophole to bypass the law. Often it comes to something ridiculous: a young man of military age literally every six months enters a new university, being dismissed from the previous one, in order to “stretch” to 27 years and be left behind a call on perfectly legal grounds. The military registration and enlistment offices often simply do not have time to track the movements of such, if I may say so, students who are thoroughly experienced in “catch me if you can.”

So, in order not to chase in hopeless attempts, it is necessary to set such a task, including to the heads of educational institutions whose job responsibilities imply responsibility for their “pets”. After all, if such an approach is worked out in detail and declare the personal responsibility of the head of the educational institution for each draft diversion who is listed only in the list of the educational institution, then the person will move.

However, let us return again to the possibility of official payment of unwillingness to go to compulsory military service. In this regard, legislators are proposing, instead of a lump sum, to levy such persons a life-long additional 13% tax. Option, no doubt worthy of attention. Only the difficulty here lies in the fact that if earlier a draft diver was looking for a military registration and enlistment office, now this person can retrain into a tax evader. Whether the tax administration will chase after him is a big question. Yes, and the additional tax can reduce the work of a citizen evading service to non-transparent, i.e. to conceal the level of its real income. It turns out that the 13% + 13% tax rate for draft dodgers is unlikely to work today, but a one-time monetary repayment of its unwillingness to serve the Fatherland is quite a suitable option.

Moreover, Russia in this regard will not be the first. In the world there are a sufficient number of states where such a practice as an official redemption from the army takes place. In particular, in Turkey, the army of which is one of the most powerful in the region, on official basis you can refuse to serve in the army, in fact, hiring another person instead of yourself for the amount paid. A young man can get into the army of Turkey with 20 age. Service life is 15 months. In this case, fees may be charged for both the full refusal of service (about 10 thousand dollars), and for the reduction of service life (about $ 5000). This practice has been operating for several years, and in Turkey, where, by the way, the level of corruption is no less than in Russia, there is no question of any drop in the combat capability of the Armed Forces. The very idea that young people can be freed from military service came to mind of Turkish lawmakers due to the fact that tens of thousands of people of military age from this country began to travel to Europe to earn money. In order not to stop this flow, which brought and brings a substantial income to the Turkish treasury, the Turkish authorities decided to introduce legalized payoff from the service.

The practice of legalized repurchase from the army for those who stubbornly do not want to serve, exists in other states. For example, in Greece you can stay "in the civilian world" by paying around 8-8,5 thousand euros, in Mongolia - $ 700. There is an opportunity on a financial basis to refuse service in a number of CIS countries, in Georgia.

Of course, the initiative itself to introduce payoff for unwillingness to serve in the army is not a panacea. She is not able to completely solve the problems of the prestige of military service. But at a certain stage, this idea may well have a peculiar educational effect on young people who claim that, say, if everything was okay in the state, they would rush to give up their constitutional duty. Well, and if, in the opinion of the draft dodgers, not everything goes well in the army, so help her with even a ruble.
120 comments
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  1. Vanek
    +9
    23 November 2012 09: 07
    in our country in 2012, about 235 thousand so-called deviators were recorded.

    235 people, damn it, but this is the whole army.
    1. +11
      23 November 2012 09: 20
      Let this "army of deviators" pay 10 times the sum of the annual maintenance of one soldier. There may be an incentive to repay the debt to the Motherland!
      I hate these crap ....
      1. Rezak
        -6
        23 November 2012 10: 23
        Did you serve yourself? Where, when, title? Where was he called from? What was your education, health status? Will you justify your bazaar?
        1. +4
          23 November 2012 10: 38
          Rezak
          Quote: Rezak
          Did you serve yourself? Where, when, title? Where was he called from? What was your education, health status? Will you justify your bazaar?
          lol
          Interrogation? Judging by the Guantanamo flag? laughing Famously!
          I’m looking at registration, I’ve just appeared on the site ... And you’re not being so modest ... stop
          1. Rezak
            -1
            23 November 2012 10: 52
            Why should I be modest? I already have enough years, but to ask after a rotten bazaar - is it immodesty?
            Are you and your attitude not from the cop caves or from the basements of the Lubyanka? If I am already with Guantanomo?
            Will you answer the questions or what?
          2. dmb
            +2
            23 November 2012 14: 07
            I try to behave modestly on the site, but almost the same questions (well, except for health and the bazaar) I asked the author on a similar article. Mr. Volodin also modestly remained silent. The logic is iron, once they give bribes, let's give them anonymity. Approximately the same ideas were expressed and systematically put into practice by a prominent liberal and concurrently Moscow Mayor Popov. And why were we left without Taburetkin? The guy was also on feeding.
          3. 0
            23 November 2012 16: 12
            Yes, there seems to be nothing wrong with that. After all, the army is worth a lot of money, there is one tank - 16 million bucks, and also uniforms, food, barracks and much more. Those who do not want to serve themselves, let them frighten the service of others, because the country can be helped by both service and the ruble. We probably have millions of 15-20 worthy of service, here 235 of thousands of weather will not be made, and money to the budget will never hurt, for the same army.
            1. orfo
              +1
              24 November 2012 01: 06
              I doubt very much that the biaser will pay any monthly / annual deductions or a lump sum. If a person is healthy and "mows", these are already some established beliefs ...
      2. 0
        23 November 2012 14: 16
        debt? which no one occupied. and then the redneck army will send you the corpse of your son.
        http://www.volgaflot.com/index.phtml?l=eng&s=4&url=index.phtml?l=eng&s=4&url=340
        4.html
      3. Hon
        +1
        23 November 2012 15: 11
        Yeah, of course, better than 200 tr. in the military commissar’s pocket and free)))
      4. +6
        23 November 2012 15: 33
        Homeland debt is a relatively rubber concept.
        To give something you need to take something. Did you take? Personally, no, but for 23 months beyond the Arctic Circle I "lent". (I can't wait for them to come back to me)
        And it is possible to oblige "deviators" in different forms.
        But you hope you understand that the lion's share of the "deviators" are whose children?
        And these "chito" do not "like" very much to fulfill the laws they have invented, pushed through, and lobbied.
        1. +2
          23 November 2012 19: 01
          I strongly disagree. Serving in the army, you do not give your debt to your homeland in terms of the state, but in terms of the PEOPLE, your family in the end. The army is taught to protect themselves and their loved ones, respectively. And if in the army there is a bully about..l - then this is everyone's business, such a warrior will come out of him, in which case he foolishly into zinc and will thunder. If a person does not want to defend himself and his loved ones of his own free will, let him give money for those who defended them and died, and this money will go to the family of the deceased. That's what this money is for. A professional, honest soldier serves not for himself and an ephemeral career, but for his family. And in the continuation of "someone's" children - from them and take in accordance with the total income of the family (father and mother). I suggest at least 30 percent. In my opinion this is fair. Moreover, until reaching 27 years of age, this same deviationist.
      5. Hon
        0
        26 November 2012 10: 26
        I don’t remember what I would borrow from my homeland!
    2. +2
      23 November 2012 09: 45
      Someone will call the official redemption from the army a new version of medieval indulgences, when, for a certain amount, the Christian church forgave everyone sins.

      Not this is more like training camp in Russia, if some village couldn’t send soldiers for some reason, then it was bought off.
      1. Hon
        +2
        23 November 2012 15: 14
        There is another legal way not to serve in the army of the Russian Federation can be served in the army of another state
    3. 0
      23 November 2012 10: 16
      Vanya:
      What kind of service can we talk about when the amount of stolen money has not yet been calculated in the Ministry of Defense ... How to serve when a soldier receives a mere penny for his service?
      1. Vanek
        0
        23 November 2012 10: 45
        Ilya Vladimirovich, let's not argue. Why am I offering this to you? Because you, nuuu, not that steppe a bit.

        I apologize if I touched something. hi
  2. +15
    23 November 2012 09: 14
    As far as I know, but I actually know first-hand, because my comrades regularly encounter military enlistment offices, now the level of "compensation" for the medical board in Voronezh is 100-120 thousand rubles. It can be cheaper, but less likely.

    The eternal desire to spare ... Why, tell me, pay a million (or half a million), if everything can be solved for a much smaller amount? In order for this system to work, you must first make sure that the military commissariats and medical commissions work as they should. That is, objectively and honestly. That is, to cover the feeder for doctors and military enlistment office staff, which in our country is not really possible.

    Here it is necessary to return to another article, which suggested some restrictions on civil rights for those who did not serve. But then again, in this country it is not yet possible to solve by call, it is possible to solve by envelope. Dead End, his mother ...

    Again, in the near future we will talk about the lack of army associated with reduced fertility in the 90 years of the last century. And no money can’t compensate for the lack of people. But do not hire mercenaries for the money ... Alas, not everything can be solved with money. For example, you need to call 500 thousand. 510 is available, but 50 decided to pay and not go. Where will we get it?
    1. +19
      23 November 2012 09: 49
      It seems to me that it is necessary to increase the prestige of the army so that they WANT to go there to serve, rather than be driven there, they just wanted to in the USSR, because they didn’t serve, so they didn’t look at the man and the girls like a leper, but now everything has changed, now you need to get it all back return, at least partially.
      1. +7
        23 November 2012 10: 43
        Joker
        Quote: Joker
        to WANT to go there to serve, but not to drive there,

        I completely agree, this is the most important thing, the rest is "on the side of the burn".
        And if you legitimize monetary "indulgences", this will only lead to the so-called stratification even more. There will be hatred of those who do not have the No.-th amount, to those who constantly "shine" with their "welfare".
        1. +6
          23 November 2012 11: 38
          Quote: Z.A.M.
          And if you legitimize monetary "indulgences", this will only lead to the so-called stratification even more. There will be hatred of those who do not have the No.-th amount, to those who constantly "shine" with their "welfare".

          This is the point. In our country, the stratification begins at school and continues throughout life. The result is the rejection of the parties, which in some cases reaches hate. The symptom is alarming. The period of human life from 4-6 to 18-20 years is the period of initial formation personality, it was at this time that the skeleton of what was later called the Man or the little human being formed. It was during this period that the state should pay attention first of all to such a thing as equality. The only criterion in the school of knowledge, well, everyone should serve, regardless of wealth, Serve in the army, go study. Not fit for combat training, 2 years of work for a minimum wage for the good of the Motherland. Tough? Otherwise, it’s impossible. We have already become dumb, the situation is critical.
      2. 0
        23 November 2012 11: 32
        It is necessary to raise from two sides:
        It is safe to close the opportunity for social evasion to the evader and his family. by definition, intended for conscious citizens, no allowances and discounts, exclude his work in any government agency. It's minimum.
        The competition will be for the army.
        Then a rigorous selection is already undergoing army training.
        Weather.
        The number of "draft deviators" is reduced by 10 times - mainly those who are in prison (in prison, on a needle and a bottle). The combat capability of the army is growing, along with it, a healthy mood begins to appear in society.
        1. Konrad
          +3
          23 November 2012 19: 41
          Quote: Andriuha077
          It is safe to close the opportunity for social evasion to the evader and his family.

          First, it is necessary to give benefits to those who have served honestly (the same study), maybe then the "punitive measures" offered by you will not be needed. And then it was that the disabled soldier, bureaucrats declared: "I did not send you there."
          1. 0
            23 November 2012 21: 06
            Quote: Konrad
            And then it was that the disabled soldier, bureaucrats declared: "I did not send you there."
            What cynicism! And they are not afraid of God!
    2. Hon
      +4
      23 November 2012 17: 41
      It is not necessary to treat soldiers like cattle, and there will be fewer deviators, but they prefer to force, coerce and ban, they are not capable of more.
  3. efefefd
    -2
    23 November 2012 09: 24
    it’s easier to catch a steep turnip of draft dodgers: bring a free swill to the central stadium of the city; collect a concert that the cattle love there; laughing and you can pick them up for 25 years, put them on a needle and give them heroin in the army wassat
  4. mishany32
    -2
    23 November 2012 09: 24
    Explain why in our country there is still a military duty, I understand that in the USSR the state guaranteed free medicine, education, children’s leisure, etc., Now we have to pay for all this and what kind of debt we can talk about managers of money and so foolish, let them contain a contract army
    1. +10
      23 November 2012 09: 36
      I agree! While our rulers send their children to the USA and Britain to study for the army’s place, while for kindergarten I pay about 80 thousand rubles a year, for now I’ll give 40 thousand to the eldest to school. + Voluntary compulsory fees once every half a year in the region of 5 thousand ....... You know, but this string should already work for me. For they promised everything for free, and in the case I pay a lot. I myself served, but when in 11 years my son will need to join the army, I will look at situevina. If everything is as it is now, I'm not sure that I will send it.
      1. +2
        23 November 2012 10: 14
        and then tell me, son, I served and you didn’t, but he told you dad that you were a sucker ??
        1. +4
          23 November 2012 10: 25
          Quote: slav4ikus

          and then tell me, son, I served and you didn’t, but he told you dad that you were a sucker ??


          Yes, the desire is to have the son serve and serve worthily! But as they serve now, it's just a waste of time. I’ll shoot him, fight, and drill drill better than in the army. I have been practicing Judo for 2 years now. Believe me, I’ll make a real man out of him.
          1. +3
            23 November 2012 19: 49
            Fighting and shooting is not the main thing. The main thing that the army teaches is to be a man among those like you, under any circumstances. You do not teach this at home.
            1. 0
              23 November 2012 21: 09
              Quote: Pushkar
              The main thing that the army teaches is to be a man among those like you, under any circumstances. You do not teach this at home.

              Precisely said, you can’t say better !!!
            2. Konrad
              +2
              23 November 2012 21: 43
              Quote: Pushkar
              The main thing that the army teaches is to be a man among people like you,

              I used to teach, yes, but now, when hazing is flourishing, I doubt it. What a madhouse for a year all the "grandfathers" serve! They were completely blighted!
      2. grizzlir
        +4
        23 November 2012 15: 18
        Quote: Manager
        I myself served, but when in 11 years my son will need to join the army, I will look at situevina. If everything is as it is now, I'm not sure that I will send it.
        I understand you. But I will send my own to serve. I can teach him to own weapons, but he will teach him military equipment in the army. Who knows when and who will change the existing system. But it certainly cannot be changed if you do not know how to own weapons.
    2. Samovar
      +7
      23 November 2012 09: 58
      Quote: mishany32
      Explain why the military duty still exists in our country.

      Conscription is the obligation to defend one's homeland (and not the state), i.e. their relatives, loved ones, their home. And it doesn't matter how you live here - if it is your home you are obliged to defend it. Remember how in the Second World War soldiers went on the attack with the cry "For the Motherland! For Stalin!" Note - first the Motherland, and only then the leader.
    3. +3
      23 November 2012 10: 13
      the army should protect not leaders and other little dogs of bulk businessmen, but normal ordinary citizens. including you. probably
    4. +1
      23 November 2012 15: 33
      I agree completely. What are you going to protect? Abramovich oil, bills of exchange? And the names are all what are Russian, God forgive me!
      1. +2
        23 November 2012 17: 56
        Quote: xoma58
        What are you going to protect?


        And yourself beloved and dear. As I say mine, anything can happen in our lives. And so on yours and even more so. And the worse is that you can intelligently master small arms, a grenade launcher, learn to drive a tank or an armored personnel carrier. Who knows what will happen next.
      2. +1
        23 November 2012 21: 11
        Quote: xoma58
        are you going to protect? Abramovich oil, bills of exchange?

        Our land must remain ours, our children must walk on their land.
        1. +1
          23 November 2012 23: 15
          Quote: matrek
          Yeah, what are they still teaching there? continue the joke


          I have to upset you. Teach, oddly enough.
          So it turned out that in life I command a small military sports club. And, every year we send 6-7 people to the troops. Therefore, I have information, as it were, first-hand.

          All say one thing: virtually no dolonavtavstva. There are no outfits in the dining room, no cleaning of territories, no hazing. Drive on materiel more.

          One of the returnees this year, a sergeant, worked at ZAS. The unit was in the Leningrad Region, but the 4 / 5 service was in the Kapustin Yar, and it provided communications to the rocket men. Now it’s undergoing a competitive check in the FSB.

          The second also served in the Leningrad Region, an anti-tank driver. This year the exercises were from February to May. He said that according to the officers, the crew had fired as many missiles during this time as the entire division hadn’t fired last year. So the tanks trained him to frown.

          The third in the Khabarovsk Territory will not climb out of the airfield (oxygen), because it has mastered the equipment for six months, and now flights are constantly.

          The fourth in Migalovo near Tver at the airfield in the guard company, Machine-gunner. So they were unlucky: instead of PKM, now they brought "Korda". All over again.

          The fifth in the aviation center in Voronezh collects simulators. Su-27 and IL-76 have already been assembled, now they have started MiG. A simulator for the pilot to assemble - this is not for you to put a SIM card in the mobile.

          Perhaps somewhere and do not do nichrome. But that's all with whom I keep in touch they say the opposite.
  5. zol1
    +3
    23 November 2012 09: 34
    More than 200 thousand gays! They can’t be called peasants! So let the normal guys pay for the service.
    1. Nickname
      +5
      23 November 2012 10: 01
      So they will pay after all. They are fine with money. And they will pay not to the treasury, but to the doctors in the pocket. This means that as long as the principle of "a thief should be in prison" to work in our country, all these discussions will not be meaningless
    2. Samovar
      +2
      23 November 2012 10: 01
      Quote: zol1
      More than 200 thousand gays! They can’t be called peasants!

      zol1 plus! Judging by the minus one soldier of this valiant "army" did not understand you. laughing
      1. predator.3
        +1
        23 November 2012 16: 18
        Do not want to serve - pay to the treasury!
        Such a system already existed in England in the 12th century. Shield money (scutagius; English scutage; lat. scutagium from lat. scutum - shield) - a type of monetary fee in medieval England, levied on the holders of chivalrous flax in return for their personal service in the king's army. Initially, it was in the nature of feudal service, later it was transformed into a relatively regularly collected tax on the land holdings of knights. with this money the English kings hired riflemen from the peasants, who in the battle of Cresius and Poitiers in 1346 and 1356. French knights were shot to death.
    3. Rezak
      0
      23 November 2012 10: 02
      Better answer for your "orientation". Ships on the greyhound, you definitely did not serve anywhere, but you keep your personal account of "exploits" in gay clubs.
    4. Rezak
      -1
      23 November 2012 10: 26
      Again, where and who did you serve, straight? Have you heard about the "service" in the problem areas? How will you establish the bazaar?
  6. +2
    23 November 2012 09: 38
    Do not want to serve - pay.
    I like this slogan. The soldiers from the deviators are worthless, so let it be said, "even a tuft of wool from a black sheep."
  7. +11
    23 November 2012 09: 40
    Wow, how everything is started then ... I don't understand one thing, why not make it easier. Has served - privileges at postgraduate study in higher educational institutions, less income tax and something else useful and profitable. I didn’t serve it, there’s nothing and they don’t touch you, let them go for a walk, one horse-radish from him in the army will be like a goat. And in the 30-40 years, he will understand that he has gone, but his hair on the priest will tear his teeth too late, so he wants his child not to repeat such a mistake, and now there will be a crowd who want to actually serve in the army. Let a long way, but the problem is solved without any nuances in the envelopes and without them.
    As an alternative to normal service, you can offer such an option as letting go home for the evening and night (without taking into account the place of residence, let the parents rent an apartment if it is so secured) and let him go to the army as to work, but lunch at his expense, uniform at his expense and increase the service life by one and a half to two times. Savings will be and everyone will be happy, everything is "shitty".
    In general, there are lots of options, so all of them will have sharp corners right away, but you can grind everything up with a file and use it.
    Much more topical is the fact that people are already being called up and married with children and who have something to do, that is, they really pull out a person when his life is already established. It would be better to fix it. 18 gods knocked - did not enter - go to the army. If you do it, you complete your education, or you act, or if you kick known organs. This is really a real problem.
    PS I am dragged from my provider, I already find myself in Turkey laughing and outside the window below zero ... horseradish Turkey I have some)
    1. +2
      23 November 2012 10: 13
      And I look, at first I thought the USSR flag, I was delighted laughing
      1. +3
        23 November 2012 10: 30
        No, such a gift, unfortunately, is not done yet (((
        1. Gavrn
          0
          25 November 2012 22: 12
          scrabler, I absolutely support your proposal. Only the draft age to make 17 years. After all, at the university the first two courses are repeated and the knowledge gained at school is deepened, therefore the year spent in the army will not affect the general preparedness of the student. But after a year spent in the army after college, getting a normal job is more difficult. For many employers need you to immediately give out the result, very few people teach young animals.
          And yet, in my opinion, it is necessary to liquidate the military departments at universities, since the term of study at a military department at a university is even less than the current term of military service, and they leave from there as lieutenants.
  8. +1
    23 November 2012 09: 51
    You won’t drag everyone into the army. Someone will surely find a suitable excuse for themselves, someone else has their own parents withыthey won’t let the night go, and the soldiers from eternally aching and lacking willpower - feces complete. They will become even worse in a year.

    I basically for the increased income taxes for those who did not serve: 1-2% of the difference and go ahead, relax!
  9. Rezak
    -2
    23 November 2012 10: 00
    I don't understand most of the "patriotically cool" commentators here. Either they bazaar, because they themselves have never served, or they just want to drive the blizzard. They simply ignore ALL the countless, systematic facts of "hazing", bullying, TTP, driving to suicide and other atrocities, which are a crazy norm in many parts of the Russian Armed Forces. Don't you know about this? Didn't you serve? Can't read? No TV? Is your hearing impaired? If so, then run for a disability pension!
    Yes, in Russia, two out of three boys are ready to SERVE in the Armed Forces, but they are not ready for any reason to spend their time with lawless people and moral freaks, building dachas for some corrupt officials and performing other slave jobs that have nothing to do with the MILITARY SERVICE.
    And there is nothing to bark at those who do not want to serve in such a parody of the sun.
    And for those who want to bark at me, I’ll say right away that I served in the "elite unit" next to the house by pull, but then everyone was taken to the "hot spot" and that was the end of the elite. Although we did not have any direct hazing, although this did take place in 94-96.
    1. +3
      23 November 2012 10: 19
      you spend too much time in front of the TV and listen to all sorts of idiots! but by the way, in order to know what is happening in all parts, you must be in all parts! in the meantime, draft dodgers run in the army are those who are caught and not the best representatives!
  10. +10
    23 November 2012 10: 01
    I also remembered the situation: 5th year of the university, April, the diploma is written. They came to the draft board with a friend:
    - Make us an urgent call to this call, only to the normal part, until all good things have been sorted out.
    - Okay, here are the directions for the commission. There are options such ..., such ... and such.

    And then a child comes with mom, our peer. He is also finishing his studies. And with us, interrupting each other, they begin to tell us what hurts him, how he pisses and how regularly. Disgusting sight. At the same time, my friend then ran to the optometrists so that they would put him in the normal category and send him not to a warehouse, but to the normal part.
    1. 0
      24 November 2012 00: 16
      How did it end? , in the sense of where did you go to serve?
  11. +5
    23 November 2012 10: 03
    I am categorically against such an estate division of Russian citizens!
    I would also return the lessons of the NVP to school.
    I think the best option is the Swiss version. Every citizen is kept drafted for training and fees, and weapons and uniforms are kept at home until drafting.
    For all other tasks, there is a professional army.
    1. -2
      23 November 2012 17: 36
      Quote: sergo0000
      stores weapons and uniforms at home until drafted

      in our country, half of the population will shoot each other drunk, and the Caucasians will finish off the rest. . .
  12. +3
    23 November 2012 10: 03
    The pay-serve principle is generally justified.
    In Uzbekistan, the so-called mobilization and draft reserve (MPR) has long been introduced. Its essence is as follows. The conscription service lasts 1 year (who has a higher education. 8 months). If you do not want to serve a year, you can pay for the MPR contract, but you must go to the training camp for 1 month. The advantages of MPR-
    - 1 month at the training ground versus 12 months in the barracks (convenient for those who do not want to or cannot serve)
    - The MPR conscript has the right to choose the date when he will be at the training camp.
    - Although the MPR is not a full-fledged service, but the minimum knowledge of military affairs a conscript of the MPR receives
    - the application of the MNR creates an additional source of financing for the Moscow Region, the costs of which in all countries eat up a substantial share of the budget
  13. 0
    23 November 2012 10: 03
    Quote: Rezak
    I don't understand most of the "patriotically cool" commentators here. Either they bazaar, because they themselves have never served, or they just want to drive the blizzard. They simply ignore ALL the countless, systematic facts of "hazing", bullying, TTP, driving to suicide and other atrocities, which are a crazy norm in many parts of the Russian Armed Forces. Don't you know about this? Didn't you serve? Can't read? No TV? Is your hearing impaired? If so, then run for a disability pension! Yes, in Russia, two out of three boys are ready to SERVE in the Armed Forces, but they are not ready for anything practically to wind time with outrageous people and moral monsters, building some corrupt officials dachas and performing other slave labor, no way and there is no need to bark at those who do not want to serve in such a parody of the Armed Forces. And for those who want to bark at me, I’ll say right away that I served in the "elite unit" near the house by pull, but then everyone was taken to "hot spot" and on that elite with cronyism ended. Although we did not have any direct hazing, although this did take place in 94-96.

    H / H 25801D. Summer 2010-2011. Private. With such a flag in the header of the post he would be ashamed to write such a thing.
  14. +4
    23 November 2012 10: 09
    In essence, the following will happen:
    Some will take away "Karmushka", others will be given the opportunity to additionally "cheer", I am extremely unsure that the degree of corruption will allow the money received to reach the "addressee" ...
    Moreover, what will the amount be all the same ??? After all, if this amount is in the range of 1000000 rubles. then this is a full credit at the Bank !!!! bish young boys, or their parents will wear a debt yoke !!! And this is the road that took place during the BAPTISM OF PEASANTS !!! I draw this conclusion as a historian ....
    Plus, this will turn the army even more into a non-voluntary and "paid" business ... After all, this will stratify society even more into "rich" and "poor", I mean in moral terms ... it's sad ...
    1. Starksa
      0
      23 November 2012 10: 42
      if this is the amount, then the parents will send the offspring with a pendal than to pay 1 lam
    2. +1
      23 November 2012 11: 51
      As a historian to a historian ... First of all, there is nothing wrong with this idea. The amount is certainly overstated. In order to really start paying to the treasury, it must be real. For example, 10 thousand per month for a year (if the service life is a year). Why risk taking bribes if you can be honest with the state for the same amount. Secondly. We have a lot more dodgers, because the figure does not take into account those who bribed doctors and cut them off "on legal grounds." Practically those who serve and those who are good but do not serve already today in half, I am telling you this as a member of the draft board. Besides. slobber, deadheads and drug addicts are not needed in the army! It is difficult to make a normal soldier out of them in a year. Therefore, a soldier should receive military allowances from the state (preferably more than now), as well as a monthly amount from the funds of those who cannot or do not want to serve on his bank account. When returning to civilian life, it will be his lifting. I think \ that the service life should be two years and, accordingly, upon dismissal of the soldier, taking into account the percentage of those who have come to his contribution, he should receive at least 250 thousand rubles, and possibly more. And we will not divide into rich and poor, but into warriors and plankton! In addition, the state. the service does not accept those who did not serve, unless they are disabled children of course. It is possible to consider the issue of a larger ransom amount for especially secured ...
  15. +4
    23 November 2012 10: 11
    Who can and wants to serve - he will go. And who does not want, he will still find someone to give to his paw in order not to serve. It is better to pay this money to the treasury than to someone's pocket.
    1. +3
      23 November 2012 10: 46
      Smirnov Vadim,
      Vadim, what about patriotic upbringing? One, due to financial insolvency, will pull the strap of the army service (for himself and that guy), the other will walk his girl in civilian clothes and consider him and his parents openly as suckers!
      And the one and the other for the rest of their lives will be sure that everything in this life is measured by money. This is education.
      1. +1
        23 November 2012 10: 53
        What time do you live in? We buy and sell everything, absolutely everything. And everyone knows and learns this at school. "Loot drives" - it needs to be changed. While "loot drives" there are those who are already paying off. Let them pay off before the state, and not before private pockets.
        1. +2
          23 November 2012 11: 31
          Smirnov Vadim,
          And to pay off all the means are good, so what? So the merchant and the huckster are held in high esteem, and the defender of the fatherland in w ...?
          I agree that this needs to be changed, but this proposal is to pay off with money. to put it mildly, it will not help the whole situation! If it does not discredit the state itself as the first bribe taker. Parents will offend us, pay off with money? But we will teach this to our children.
          1. 0
            23 November 2012 11: 39
            The situation should be changed in parallel with other methods. Such measures will get rid of themselves if the situation changes. By the way, and in the USSR, in the eighth, there were dodgers, but they were much smaller. And they also gave to the paw and did not go to the army.
            In the meantime, this situation and changes in the near future is not expected, let them pay officially, and not in a private pocket.
          2. +1
            23 November 2012 21: 18
            Quote: sergo0000
            They will offend our parents — pay off with money, but we will teach our children this.
            I agree that the "rich" Muscovites will be hated even more, and they will despise the "province" even more. Let's add a social stratification that is already off scale. One son of Porsche Carrera has a knot covered with pimples and looks at everyone like lice.
        2. 0
          23 November 2012 21: 20
          Quote: Smirnov Vadim
          Everything is sold and bought here, absolutely everything.

          You, though a moderator, are wrong. Sorry for being rude, is your anus also for sale?
  16. +1
    23 November 2012 10: 12
    It is interesting to consider one of the proposals, which has recently been quite often expressed by representatives of the public, as well as by domestic legislators. This proposal can be described in military terms shortly: “If you do not want to serve, pay!”

    It's really interesting to consider this proposal. Moreover, some time ago I myself advocated such an approach to solving the issue of deviators. To date, I think this thought was sordid. And it's not even a matter of reducing the defense capability of the army. The matter lies, rather, in the moral plane. Here's how I imagine (a hypothetical situation) such a rasping pimple, imposingly, with disdain, the superiority of throwing a pack of "bucks" and with the words "no change" leaving the recruiting office in a Bentley or Porsche, I have a gag reflex. "Sonny" still does not represent anything of himself, he has not seen anything, and most likely will not see, but already considers himself the OWNER of LIFE. So I think it is the responsibility of the state to show him the many-sided nature of human existence. To some extent, it is a shame for those guys who cannot pay off, and from the experience of my past service I know that they are often (of course not always) smarter, morally cleaner than the rich bastards. Well, one more aspect. I think that the army has remained a school of life. Let with a kindergarten bias (sleep in the afternoon, weekends, outsourcing, etc.), nevertheless, I think that a person really manifests itself when, apart from his mother's skirt, he lives in a men's team, where you cannot hide in a burrow. And then it becomes clear who you really are. THE KIDS WILL GROW UP! And they themselves and their views and values ​​really change.
    The adoption of the Law that a young man who has not served in the army cannot be accepted for civil service is a real lever. A few more such levers will turn out to be prestigious for serving in the army and navy. Well, who doesn’t like to defend our Fatherland - give me an education. The world is great.
    1. +1
      23 November 2012 11: 04
      No leasing! For in this way the class of freaks, which are already lacking, will grow. Only this will be officially legalized, approved, so to speak, estate. Looking at normal people as g ...
      Employees make a good set of benefits - tax cuts, the possibility of admission to universities on preferential terms, work in public institutions, etc. if you don’t want to join the army - please, who didn’t serve exactly the opposite - tax increases, hell instead of normal work, and what’s next.
      The basis of the army should be exclusively professional, there must be specialists, and of a high class. It’s not that the person served in the Children's Art School, and then in the civilian life he began to use the skills acquired in the service.
      Well, if thunder breaks out, God forbid, any Russian person, even with an AK, even with a pitchfork, will go to war with a cry "For the Motherland!" Historical practice confirms this.
      And the army with spending the night at home, going "to the army" as to work, etc. beauties this, excuse me, is complete absurdity!
      1. +2
        23 November 2012 12: 48
        Why absurd? A person is called primarily for what? In order to learn, so let those who really want to serve learn. And the one who needs an alternative, let him come and go, cleaning the territory, washing, clothes in the kitchen, it's all on them. You do not want to serve normally, spend the night in your bed, walk in the evening, and during the day work for the benefit of those who want to serve. Or did you decide that I offered a full service to such comrades? I have not survived out of my mind))) And in the military ticket a mark to put as served. This will really be a shame and a stigma for life. Immediately there will be so many willing to serve. And as I said, no postponement for studies. It will be easier in 18-19 years than in the same 26, not only morally, but also physically. Just to give the opportunity to legally buy off is not the case, money can be found not a problem, as someone wrote above, the same loan. It is necessary to create conditions for the alternative to be, but not even considered. And the question of bribes to doctors is generally very easy to solve - passing the medical board not at the place of residence, where each other is cum-brother-swat, or at least an acquaintance, but further on so that the draftee would not know where the medical board will be until the last moment. Fully solve the problem, but partly completely.
        1. +1
          23 November 2012 13: 32
          About the mark on the ticket to the point!
          For example, the beloved of a "good fellow" accidentally looks into his military ID, and there in the column "specialty" (intentionally I do not write military) "closet washer" or "waste rake" - beauty!
  17. Rezak
    -3
    23 November 2012 10: 20
    Anyone who strongly criticizes the evaders himself has not served and does not know the essence of the problems in the Russian Armed Forces. And you can bazaar only about what you personally know.
    1. +1
      23 November 2012 10: 26
      They could also erase the fact that the comment was written in full bold type, so it may not be the case either. Although it was harsh smile
      1. Rezak
        0
        23 November 2012 10: 33
        But in fact, and without calling people. And here, some allow themselves to drive a blizzard about improper orientation and digestive problems - and nothing.
  18. -3
    23 November 2012 10: 29
    I propose the simplest, but fair price list - pay for ALL types of allowance for a contract soldier and voila! What can you do - the world is changing and we are changing with it? Now to be dodgy and cleverly pragmatic is becoming a positive concept. So soon the very concept of "scoundrel" will be praise ...
    1. Rezak
      0
      23 November 2012 10: 48
      That is, the fairest option is considered this: did your family steal from their neighbor, deprived him, perhaps, of the means and the opportunity to "buy off" and buy you off? While theft and all sorts of paid excuses will be considered the norm, it is a shame to talk about the fight against corruption.
      "And any house divided within itself will not stand."
  19. -1
    23 November 2012 10: 31
    It is necessary to nationalize the ideology in favor of the Russian state. Then this problem will not be so acute. And about paying - this is nonsense, which could turn into another worker-peasant revolution.

    Putin on the new ideology of Russia



    The world's most famous KGB officer, Russian President Vladimir Putin, voiced his thoughts on the Russian ideology of the future. This video gives a possible transcript of his speech.
    On September 12, 2012, Putin made a speech about patriotism in Russia, but in reality Putin was talking about a new Ideology for Russia. Putin essentially called on all patriots of Russia to unite in strengthening Russia and creating its new Ideology. A speech that all the big media studiously silenced, although in this speech Putin openly said that a war of foreign states is being waged for the minds and souls of Russians, in terms of the importance of consequences comparable to the global struggle for mineral resources. And that this war on the territory of Russia can be effectively opposed only by Russian ideology. The fading ideology in the USSR and the Russian Empire, Putin called the reasons for their destruction. Without naming the United States by name, Putin bluntly said that certain forces in Russia are conducting "well-orchestrated propaganda attacks." A cut of the most important statements of Putin is offered, with comments.
    1. +5
      23 November 2012 11: 50
      Quote: Boris55
      It is necessary to nationalize the ideology in favor of the Russian state.

      Fine, but the question is what is our ideology in the state? When you steal and brazenly lie, admit that the masters of life are Abramovich and the like, and Putin will call you a patriot for that. Before speaking about ideology, you need to create a national idea that is attractive to everyone members of society to voice it and follow it. Putin’s ideology does not appeal to me, I have my own opinion on the state system.
      1. 0
        23 November 2012 14: 51
        ... what is our ideology in the state? Be patient when they steal and brazenly lie, admit that the owners of life are Abramovich and the like, and for this Putin will call you a patriot ...

        From this phrase it follows that for you, the affairs of Yeltsin and Putin are not separable. This is a consequence of NOT our ideology, the conductors of which are non-Russian media (http://klin.ucoz.net/forum/8-20-1). Do you remember which Russia Putin took? And what is she now? Do you see the difference?





        ... Before speaking about ideology, it is necessary to formulate a national idea that is attractive for all members of society to voice it and follow it ...

        Putin outlined his vision of the afflicted in seven election articles (http://klin.ucoz.net/forum/32). He voiced the idea and the majority, despite the numerous cries of the opposition, who really managed only to sue about 100 complaints about alleged violations during voting in the elections, voted for him, for his national idea.

        ... I have my own view on the state system ...

        As the classics of Marxism-Leninism used to say, the state is an apparatus of minority violence over the majority. All countries of the world are built on the same principle - the principle of the pyramid, (http://klin.ucoz.net/forum/21-147-1)



        to extract as much profit as possible for the elite. No matter how hard you try to "plaster" the pyramid of violence, there is no escape from violence. It is necessary to destroy the very principle of building society according to the principle of the state.

        1. +2
          23 November 2012 16: 10
          Quote: Boris55
          Putin outlined his vision of the afflicted in seven election articles

          Exactly, what is "in trouble." But the essence is not an error. Putin has stated, we are setting out everything. And what did he do?
          Quote: Boris55
          the state is the apparatus of minority violence over the majority.

          It was invented by those who want to rule the world. The state is a population management apparatus created by the population itself, delegating its management rights to a certain group of people, in order to create a comfortable and safe environment in the places where the population resides, protect it anywhere in the world, and increase the well-being of residents, controlled by elected representatives. How do you like this concept of the state.
          1. -4
            23 November 2012 16: 27
            ... Putin outlined, we all set out. And what did he do? ...
            What Putin himself says about this:



            And also look here - http://klin.ucoz.net/forum/32-21-82-16-1347432308

            ... The state is a population management apparatus created by the population itself ...

            In my opinion this is a delusion from ignorance. Do not know why until the 10 century state Russia did not exist? Yes, because management was carried out according to a completely different principle, carefully concealed by the powers that be. They don’t know - and no matter how. So you have nothing else but building a society on the principle of the STATE, no :)
            1. +2
              23 November 2012 18: 22
              Quote: Boris55
              What Putin himself says about this:

              He speaks for more than 12 years. At first I was an ardent supporter of Putin, then I became a reserved supporter, then a restrained opponent, now an ardent opponent. As they say went through all stages. Do you know when I became an opponent of Putin? After his arrival in our region, all manifested deceit and disregard for people by the authorities. I have seen enough.
              1. +2
                23 November 2012 18: 57
                Well ... Dream further on the good gentleman ...

                Forgotten village

                Burmistra Vlas has a grandmother Nenil
                I asked to fix the hut in the forest.
                He answered: there is no forest, and do not wait - it will not be!
                "Here comes the master - the master will judge us,
                Barin himself will see that the hut is bad
                And he tells me to give it to the forest, ”the old woman thinks.

                Someone next door, greedy extortioner,
                The peasants of the zemlyatse shack
                Delayed, cut off in a rogue manner.
                “Here comes the master: he will be surveyors! -
                Think peasants. - The master will say the word -
                And they will give our country back to us again. ”

                I fell in love with Natasha, a free-range tiller,
                Yes, the German girl reread compassionate,
                Chief Executive Officer. “Wait, Ignasha,
                The master will come! ”Says Natasha.
                Small, large - a little bit of an argument -
                “Here comes the master!” - they repeat in chorus ...

                Nenila is dead; on a strange land
                The neighbor dodger - harvest a hundredfold;
                Former boys go bearded;
                The free breadman fell into the soldiers,
                And Natasha herself doesn’t rave about her wedding ...
                The master is still gone ... the master is not going!

                Finally one day in the middle of the road
                Hearing seemed to the train train:
                On the high coffins the oak stands
                And in the coffin is a gentleman; and behind the coffin - a new one.
                They buried the old, wiped away the new tears,
                He got into his carriage and left for St. Petersburg.

                Nikolay Nekrasov October 2 1855
  20. Rezak
    0
    23 November 2012 10: 37
    And it's simple: if it is the SERVICE, then there should be order, and not lawlessness with bullying and criminality. Wishing to be full. And in Russia they like everything by force and by compulsion to do, because it is easier and cheaper.
  21. +5
    23 November 2012 10: 44
    And in the 80s, non-servicemen were considered defective. And there was hazing, and non-combat mortality was present in the army, and ours fought in Afghanistan. After the training, we, three fellow countrymen, filed a report on the direction of the DRA, the deputy politician did not let the report go further, there was a sincere man.
  22. 0
    23 November 2012 10: 50
    At one time there was a tax for childlessness (as the men called the "tax for eggs"), and now it would be possible to introduce a similar one for unwillingness to fulfill military duty, so that the draft deviators would pay that way up to 45 years, and send the money in a targeted manner for additional support monetary allowances and other incentives for military personnel. Well, and accordingly, the most favorable regime for those who have given their debt to the Motherland - when entering the civil service, in universities, for placing children in kindergartens, etc. (a whole system of support measures is needed).
    1. 0
      25 November 2012 06: 41
      Someone put a minus to Kadetovu, probably an Internet patriot who did not serve in the army.
  23. +7
    23 November 2012 10: 52
    They should not be bought off from the army and from prison!
    And then we have practically divided our country into a class of gentlemen (officials, prosecutors, etc.) and a class of bonded people, to whom there is nothing to pay off ..
    With the introduction of the farmers, the educational level of the army will still drop!
    Everyone must serve the Motherland! And the ideology of the state and the attitude towards its citizens should be such that all WANTED to serve the Motherland.
    And the officials whose children consider all sorts of England their homeland are pitchforks to the side.
  24. schta
    +2
    23 November 2012 10: 55
    The question is really difficult. Serve or pay. If a young guy goes to serve, then the state should provide him with worthwhile training. Now half of the conscripts are sitting in fkontakte or hacked into "vrotmnetanki". What kind of bald are they doing there?

    It was lucky for those whose health group A. Such children will be recruited, educated and trained in the normal way. Thanks to training and propaganda, good soldiers (and indeed good men) will come out of these children. And if any B4?

    Anyone who is dragged into the army by force will not achieve success in training (he does not need it stupidly). Consequently, a "bad" soldier will come out of him. Then one of two things: either dad pays, or son sullenly "tramples boots."

    And finally. Every parent, in conditions of parental feelings and instincts, seeks to fence off his, albeit 18-year-old child from problems and dangers. These are instincts. This is nature. This is normal.

    Although the service itself in peacetime is not worth fearing. They are not much different from the institute. The same team. The same classes, lectures, practice. Plus fresh air, exercise, nutrition. And all for free!
    Sorry without the students, of course feel
  25. 0
    23 November 2012 10: 56
    My opinion is that there is a double-edged sword.
    On the one hand, it’s good, the budget of the Moscow Region will be replenished (only as if its analogs Taburetkin could’t be pocketed).
    On the other hand, the people will "pay off" to the maximum. Yes, corruption in military registration and enlistment offices will decrease, but only who will serve and in what number?
    1. Odessa
      +1
      23 November 2012 12: 18
      Lissyara,
      My opinion is that there is a double-edged sword.
      On the one hand, it’s good, the budget of the Moscow Region will be replenished (only as if its analogs Taburetkin could’t be pocketed).
      On the other hand, the people will "pay off" to the maximum. Yes, corruption in military registration and enlistment offices will decrease, but only who will serve and in what number?

      He wrote briefly and clearly, +! The question is good, this is one of the prerequisites for the emergence of a contract army.
  26. AvadaCedavra
    0
    23 November 2012 11: 01
    It is necessary to create a contract army following the example of developed countries, and not extort the last pennies from the population. Service in the army of the Russian Federation is a waste of time; it is impossible to acquire any useful skills there. The provision and treatment of conscripts is worse than that of prisoners.
  27. +5
    23 November 2012 11: 04
    HERE is the army and the country without idiology, here you have the whole result, you can’t drive the army with sticks, just like you can’t pay off it (you must admit serving the Motherland, and buying it off is blasphemous), it’s just society has decomposed into many pieces, it’s necessary to conduct such youth a policy in which even thoughts could not be slanted, Under the USSR they served for conscience ....
    Another grin of bestial capitalism ...
  28. +4
    23 November 2012 11: 06
    Somewhat embarrassing is the very formulation of the question - pay, for example, 1000000 and "sleep well" Pay attention - for the boys who graduated from school somewhere in the village and receive 8-10 thousand - a direct road to the sun, and the ragged daddy's son (who "needs a school of life more than ever ) -well, for example, to Thailand smile So for whom is the law actually being drafted? In my opinion, the problem should be solved with the image of the army. It may even be an advertisement for prestige and, accordingly, the availability of benefits and privileges after the service, following the example of amers. Although, as members of the forum noted, in my time, a non-serving man and a divorcee were outcasts. The fact that a real man is a soldier was not discussed.
  29. 0
    23 November 2012 11: 08
    I really wanted to go to serve, until my friend was pierced with a butterfly belly, while he walked around the dining room in his part.
    That's because he refused to give up his toothbrush.
    Okay, the wound was not so serious, and he was immediately taken to the hospital.

    But I don’t want to take risks, it’s better I will study and go to science.
    So that.
    1. +3
      23 November 2012 11: 17
      So go! In this regard, no one forbids. Someone needs to develop the same weapon. The whole question is that if you really bring benefits, then only on the road. And do not pay off in order to trade in cellular.
  30. master85
    +1
    23 November 2012 11: 10
    He himself served 2 years in the Ministry of Internal Affairs VV and, in principle, I don’t jell, but I FULLY agree with Delink - I was always strangled by a toad because of these deviators.
  31. +2
    23 November 2012 11: 22
    In the mid-00s, there was such a practice:
    Some defense enterprises provided university graduates with an official "reservation" from military service. Thus, ensuring an inflow of young specialists. While a person works for the good of the state, he does not serve. Many graduates who did this, who have now reached non-draft age, continue to work there to this day (for example, many of my friends)
    IMHO, a very competent decision was to ensure an influx of personnel into the defense industry and officially solve the issue of unwillingness to serve.
    1. 0
      23 November 2012 17: 50
      What have they mined?
      This is still valid. I wrote that after my graduation, two of my friends went to the KBHA to work, rocket engines (one to assemble, the other to test) brought to mind. even so, do we need rockets?
      1. 0
        23 November 2012 18: 09
        These enterprises should be allowed ONLY after minimal army training, and accordingly, work must be compared with further service, accompanied by field training.
        In the event of an emergency, unarmed defense workers will run like mice, and this is unacceptable, without a diaper of the accompanying parts, leaving trusted property to the mercy of the enemy. By the way, reasonable physical activity develops brains perfectly. And then they will design. To check - a biography of any of our famous designer successful military equipment.
  32. +3
    23 November 2012 11: 22
    For peacetime, the initiative may be useful. And if it’s locked, and yet it’s locked, what is Vanka from the village to the trenches, and Archibald from the business city to the basement? No, I still think that service is an honorable duty EACH CITIZEN, did not serve a non-citizen country.
  33. not good
    +1
    23 November 2012 11: 26
    If we legally accept payment in exchange for service, our "elite", which already looks at the Russian people like dirt. It will get a legitimate reason to spit on the Motherland. And in case, God forbid, wars will shout that it is impossible to mobilize unprepared people into battle .Everyone should be recruited !!! Serve healthy, do not serve alternatively. Dodged-get defeated in rights. Exemption from service for specialists while working in the defense industry, can be considered as an alternative service.
    1. Penek
      +3
      23 November 2012 12: 51
      In case, God forbid, war, our "elite" will dump in London (Courchevel, Antarctica - to choose from), to observe from there - who will win?

      Maybe I missed something, but why not a word about the media now about the alternative service? Maybe they already covered up this project under Feldmebel?
      1. mislavl
        +1
        24 November 2012 05: 31
        the alternative service project was needed for the slope of the service until it was gone, as soon as it appeared, nobody needed it, the prospect of not serving for a year, and two did not make anyone happy to endure the slops!
  34. Splin
    +4
    23 November 2012 11: 36
    I also propose to buy an officer’s rank as under Catherine.
    And if there is an official rollback, then the dream of the 17th revolutionaries will certainly come true. The army will be PEOPLE- Exclusively from the workers and peasants!
    1. 0
      23 November 2012 14: 18
      and then................. oh, what white ones on blue, steamboats went into the distance, took Russia aboard, oh, lieutenant, what a pity you were ........... weapons in the hands of workers and peasants - this is a serious argument for the final and irrevocable stratification of society ......
    2. +4
      23 November 2012 17: 48
      Now who is she from?
      Kids businessmen sit at home. They have enough money.
      I can give you statistics for my children. In the spring, they took 6 from 7 to be drafted.
      Otmazatsya alone (God, as they say, judge, if finances allow).
      Of 6 departed 4 (four !!!) from a family with one parent.
      1 - father, an officer of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, died in execution.
      2 - father FSB officer died in execution
      3 - father died in a car accident
      4 - mother, an officer of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, died in execution (raised by father, ensign).

      Although it seems that by law they had the right to stay in the city. But they serve whom they sent to. So our army is really workers and peasants.
  35. I. Brovkin
    +1
    23 November 2012 11: 40
    We live under capitalism, so we have the poor who will have to serve anyway until we completely switch to a contract army (and this will not be soon) and the rich who did not serve and will not serve. What can you do, they will still pay off. So let them not serve, but pay money not to "uncle's pocket", but to the state, that is, they pay the military labor of the same conscripts and contract soldiers. In short, if you do not want to serve, pay for the service of TEN CONTRACTORS and sleep well.
    And yet any labor under capitalism must be paid, so that the conscript must receive the same money for his service as the contract soldier.
  36. +6
    23 November 2012 12: 11
    Somehow I read one idea and it seemed to me sensible, to call on everyone, but who does not want to do military service, to form service personnel. Those who will wash the barracks, clean the toilets, sweep the parade ground, wash and so on. You can even put them a salary and put a half-year period on them. BUT then normal guys will be engaged in military training and training.
    1. +2
      23 November 2012 12: 36
      Astartes
      Quote: Astartes
      but who does not want to do military service, to form in the staff.
      + To you.
      Somewhat earlier thought the same thing. What is not an alternative to outsourcing?
      And not from the side (not the huckster) and in the location. Maybe it’s worth it (tama to viru) to think about it.
      Although ... a lot of nuances ... But to pay off - this is not true.
    2. +2
      23 November 2012 13: 11
      That's right, well, the inner voice forbids you to take weapons - take a bucket and a rag. +++ That's just a pity the advice of soldiers' mothers will be against, they then believe that they should be protected by CHILDREN OF OTHER PARENTS, and not their only bloodsuckers (by the way, they are the only ones who regret the resignation of Serdyukov)
      1. mislavl
        0
        24 November 2012 05: 28
        mother’s councils are structures formed at the expense of the State Department, created for the collapse of the army, read their sites. it is written in black and white, come to us, we will teach you how to reject service!
    3. +2
      23 November 2012 13: 18
      You can even put them a salary and put a half-year period on them. BUT then normal guys will be engaged in military training and training.

      and look at them as on r ... The mark on the military card about this (as suggested above) will not hurt either. Perhaps then many will immediately want to serve as normal children should.
      1. 0
        23 November 2012 13: 29
        This is a calculation. But again, you need an overbearing decision that you haven’t served, you can’t enter a university, get a normal profession, etc. Moreover, if massive muscular guys come back from normal service, and with alternative frail cleaners, then people will think about it.
      2. +1
        23 November 2012 14: 30
        take a bucket and a rag. +++ serve as normal guys

        good soldier

        For this, EVEN it is worth combining a military ID with a passport!
  37. F-22
    0
    23 November 2012 12: 35
    There is only one way out - a dumb professional army! Landfill call.
    1. +5
      23 November 2012 13: 05
      Mercenary army: expensive, effective only in peacetime.
      In the normal countries of the mixed-type aircraft, no one will force the conscript to fly the aircraft, but he can protect this aircraft!
  38. +1
    23 November 2012 13: 01
    In the Armed Forces should serve EVERYTHING to whom the state of health allows (not disabled people), the rest are obliged to serve according to limitations and opportunities - this is the work of the VC, in determining the place and type of service.
    Volunteer turnout in VK, for the call of the best. (Get the passport yourself, without reminders). In case of refusal and failure to appear within a certain period of time - a case in court. There are no valid reasons for failure to appear-- at least 1,5 years in a colony of a settlement. Within 1 year, the problem with draft dodgers will disappear.
    1. 0
      23 November 2012 14: 35
      This is the only true way!

      What is behind the squelch to run? Let them be worthy first. As for the court, this is troublesome. It is better to back up with material goods of such a weight that leaves no doubt. Training. Visit DOSAAF network with free sports facilities. And deviators of no civil service.
      1. +2
        23 November 2012 17: 00
        Why troublesome? VK keep records of all draftees, the year of conscription has come - some Pupkin hasn’t appeared, the draftee’s case is in court. Let the court understand why? No problems for VK, for a draftee (if he is right), income to the state for legal costs + penalty for failure to attend + almost free slave. power in the colony!
  39. +2
    23 November 2012 13: 21
    All this will only spawn an army of officials, and corruption will again grow at times
  40. Dr.M.
    +3
    23 November 2012 13: 26
    So. we take 200 thousand "dodgers", joyfully running to the cashier to "pay". True, there are probably so many of them, but not the essence yet. They will "pay", say, $ 500 per month. Hehe. 180 thousand rubles a year, for ease of calculation. We have 36 billion rubles. In total, a little more than 1 (one) billion dollars (3-4 out of 36 will be stolen in any case, only a measly 10%).

    The budget of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for 2012, as I understand it, is ten times more. Yes, and the Olympics are tens of times more waste. and the outflow of capital of a hundred billion dollars a year does not surprise anyone.

    Well, someone thinks that it’s precisely this 1 billion that was not enough for everything to become good? If there was a desire, 1 billion is not difficult to find. Kyrgyzstan filed 1 billion. And if not, then at least ten billion more people will be pulled from the population, but there will be no benefit.
  41. Lustrator
    +3
    23 November 2012 14: 24
    Apparently, your bureaucrats have decided to make a little more money on military duty - apparently, not all departments are able to parasitize on the military budget.

    It is necessary to put free education on the condition of compensation by the military or alternative (for health) service: if you haven’t served, you won’t get a budget education after school. I would generally evict the golden youth into space with my parents - advertising their lifestyle is a tool for the destruction of society, an element of the introduction of hypocrisy and consumerism.
    A useless person has a hopeless life.
    1. +1
      23 November 2012 14: 49
      Let's continue. I didn’t come up as a reference - I’m not suitable for the civil service all the more.
  42. Fox
    +2
    23 November 2012 14: 47
    if you don’t want to serve-pay ... but to someone who serves at existing rates, starting from TR 30 ... and crushing citizenship only after service, the same public office and voting right, etc. to women are the same, but after the birth of a child ... and demographics will increase and normal families will be.
    1. +1
      23 November 2012 18: 20
      We have half the country scored for elections :)
  43. +3
    23 November 2012 14: 50
    if you make payments, then there will be very few specialists in the army, and mostly uneducated people will serve (literate people will find how to pay off), and complex equipment is in service ..
  44. +3
    23 November 2012 14: 53
    The state should operate a system that eradicates "deviation" from military service.
    This set of measures should include not only benefits in the form of the right to "free" education at the expense of the state at the university, but also a number of others, including:
    - a ban on the occupation of any state, deputy position, including work in various state power structures,
    - the abolition of the age mark (28 years) after which a man fit for health is not drafted into the army,
    - increased income tax on non-serving men who are fit for service due to health reasons.
    1. +1
      23 November 2012 17: 17
      income tax

      It’s easier. Served - tax-free amount, balances on family members.
      For possession of military skills, confirmed at the training camp, raising the scale.

      The rate is chosen high enough to withdraw from the taxation of the income of the warrior. Whole. And then the whole and his family.
      The total amount of tax collected is regulated by squeezing the rate at the expense of those who do not want to participate in the defense of the country.

      This will simplify the tax system and facilitate enforcement.
      Gingerbread instead of a whip.
  45. Gorchakov
    +6
    23 November 2012 14: 56
    Today the young deviationist will cut his parents off the army for money, and tomorrow he will move up the career ladder with the stolen money ... So which official is he? And if he is a deputy, a president? In short, I think that if you are buying yourself today to avoid fulfilling your duty to defend your homeland, then being a corrupt official, you will sell it .. Is it not enough for you Medvedev, who did not serve in the army, but undertook to reform it? Guys, more than six months ago, I shared my thoughts with Klintsevaich on the Vzglyad website that EVERYTHING must fulfill the constitutional duty ... Those draft deviators who found a loophole not to serve in the army should be deprived of the right to engage in state activities in all echelons authorities ... I said, I say and will say that it is impossible to lead the state and state institutions without serving in the army ... Then I was very surprised that a draft of such a law appeared, but every month it grows and grows overgrown with amendments and from the original there is almost nothing left ... I believe that the law should be tough, without any liberal loopholes ... I also believe that getting at least wool from the "black sheep" by buying off is nothing more than corruption, with which the government strenuously "fights" ... I repeat once again that if an eighteen-year-old boy knows that the debt to the Motherland can be replaced by his father's money, then when he grows up nothing will prevent him from tradingcountry ... After all, the main thing is that everything is bought and sold ... And let the children of low-income families fulfill the duty to the Motherland ... I am against buying off ... Everything means everything, without exception ...
    1. +3
      23 November 2012 17: 39
      Three hands "For".
      Everyone should serve their country. Like in Israel. And if you are homosexual, or writing at night - that’s not a problem! By the way, here in the states, everyone would find application. they are not scattered there by any personnel.
      An enureznik can very well peel potatoes during the day, and a homosexual mop the floors in the barracks, while serving, in fact, in the service. And to write and homosexual after a hard day - home. And so 3 years instead of one and a half. Give back to someone who is learning to protect you. Actually, such a hoopoe owes not so much to the country as to that guy with a gun. My flooring for him, prepare food, mark his parade ground. Everything is simple.
      And then it’s cool with us - I gave loot and whistles and sing. Her ... wrong!
  46. grizzlir
    +1
    23 November 2012 15: 10
    Do not want to serve-pay
    And they will pay. Rich little daddies for their children. They will also legitimize the purchase of officer ranks, and transfer the officer service from the cradle as in tsarist times. There would only be money. I’ll be bold to call it workers and peasants. I just doubt very much that this idea will increase the prestige of the service, it will probably be the other way round. I paid off, you are cool, smart, rich. No, you’re a loshara.
  47. grizzlir
    -1
    23 November 2012 17: 20
    Money, money, money. Everyone went crazy. They talk about some kind of faith, but there’s nothing to do in the church without money either. NATO is the same bad block, but we will accept it with open arms. Let the kids buy it off from the defense of the Motherland. Extra money to the treasury. Uraaaa, let’s. And let the criminals write a fine instead of punishment. Now, like, killed, 10 jails and sit. And you need to feed, drink at the state expense. And we will do so, killed, pay lam. You can still kill or rape, the main thing is to pay. What insanity can ideas get, and we are still talking about some kind of patriotism and spirituality.
  48. 0
    23 November 2012 19: 19
    grizzlir,
    They are talking about some kind of faith, but in the church there is nothing to do without money either. Just about, corrupt officials in an attempt to maintain power impose corrupt priests.
  49. DRY
    DRY
    +1
    23 November 2012 19: 23
    and what let them pay for example 10 tr for each month of service, and this is 12 months, moreover, in the salary of a soldier of military service, we ourselves will see how before our eyes the number of deviators will decrease to a minimum since all probably want to serve and earn at the same time.
    1. 0
      7 December 2012 13: 58
      Correctly ! And let the soldier pay for the training of the VUS from his salary. There garbage, a little, for m / in the tank about 32 thousand dollars.
      To receive salary you must first learn how to her win.
  50. Cosmonaut
    +3
    23 November 2012 21: 24
    Chechnya killed the army’s prestige ...
    More precisely the attitude of the command towards the soldiers.
  51. +1
    23 November 2012 23: 33
    But for me, they would give a military commissar 15 years for a bribe, a doctor 10 years for a bad certificate............... two, three courts and everyone will go to serve! We need to show them in the zombie box. But who is it? will do ? because they take it everywhere!
  52. +1
    24 November 2012 00: 14
    “After all, if a young man declares that he does not want to go into the service because he is afraid of losing a prestigious job or his professional (acting, musical, mathematical and other) skills and talents, then - for God’s sake!”

    - Well, this is bullshit! There have always been and are ensembles where musicians, actors, and dancers served. And if he knows mathematics well, that’s even better! Only put such guys in serious areas. There is definitely no way to pay for giving up the army. It is here that the “rich people” will be able to experience equality, which they are very afraid of. But they will also understand what “feeling together” means. If they don’t join the army, they are ready-made traitors who will at any moment flee to where they pay more. They don’t care about both the Motherland and the people. But to be honest, I had fun reading your comments.
    Both of my sons have served, and now I’m collecting my grandson. They don't take it like that!!!! They say: “What are you doing? Can’t you feed a healthy guy? We now have a queue of people who have practically nothing to eat at home and nowhere to work. And you’re going to join the army as a child after technical school? Think about it! Refuse!” (This is a military commissar, I quote verbatim) And we have already learned the commands - “Zalizyak on the chest - hep!” (“machine guns on the chest”, who didn’t understand) And “all around you - cool!” (Well, it’s just “all around!”) But they don’t take it! "There are no places in the army!" Even if you serve for 9 months. Apparently, you will have to go higher to get them, because in our family - “Whoever has not served is not a man!”
  53. Odessa16
    +2
    24 November 2012 00: 16
    “If you don’t want to serve, pay” is idiocy. It’s easier to pay to have it issued “unfit.” And in general - this is stupidity. Taking into account the fact that the transition to contract service is being carried out - the absolute opposite. The army must be contractual! Look at the army that fought in Chechnya - there were either paid special forces or “green” conscripts who were trained somehow and equipped with the same equipment. They complain that 20 people officially “deserted” (that is, quit) during the war in Iraq. Firstly, this is a voluntary matter. If you don’t want to die for the tasks assigned to the army, don’t die. The army is not a soldier's enemy. But at the same time, there were soldiers in Iraq who thoroughly knew the equipment and served in it for many years, and most importantly, they WANTED TO GET THERE, and were not trying to get out of it. Agree - when a poor family sits at home, waiting for another breadwinner to appear/return, waiting for a son for a whole year is not very good. If only they PAID there!
  54. georg737577
    +2
    24 November 2012 04: 26
    Nobody has to pay for anything. The mandatory nature of conscription is reasonably justified only under a socialist system - if the means of production and resources belong to the people, then the army is also the people's. And under capitalism, let the children of those who own the means of production and concessions for resource extraction fight. And there is no and cannot be any “debt to the homeland” under capitalism! Unless in the event of an internal war, when the snickering government needs to be raised with pitchforks...
  55. mislavl
    +2
    24 November 2012 05: 24
    all questions with draft dodgers. These are the military commissars’ affairs that have been made up from thin air! In every region, and the majority of draft dodgers are residents of large cities, there are people who have received deferments from military service for a certain fee. They do not hide this and willingly explain how and from whom they received these deferments. Not only does everyone know that these people received illegal deferments, the boys who find out about it. They are also in no hurry to be fools and hide from military registration and enlistment offices and police under any pretext.
    As for payment, this is heresy... there is no issue with money in the country, there are issues of theft and corruption. bribery, if you want draft dodgers, is a protest against these vices. Those. Human. who stole completely illegally pays for the deferment and lives without any problems. Another works, lives honestly and at the same time must go to protect this thief.
    As long as the Minister of Defense and his top leadership steal, military commissars take bribes, the number of draft dodgers will grow! The service itself to thieves commanders is not normal. And the conscript is now literate, he understands what’s what...
  56. -2
    24 November 2012 08: 13
    Quote: APASUS
    But for me, they would give a military commissar 15 years for a bribe, a doctor 10 years for a bad certificate............... two, three courts and everyone will go to serve! We need to show them in the zombie box. But who is it? will do ? because they take it everywhere!

    + to you! And also, the second passport replacement should be done at the age of 20, at the end of your service. Without it, no movement is possible - trips, income, getting a job, etc. If a person does not have a passport, he is a draft dodger - in the zone. If he has one, but did not serve (unjustified) - in the zone, the migration service. Raise the conscription age to 30 years, so that hiding things don’t seem like honey, and, accordingly, increase the term for evasion to 5 years
  57. Psychojoker
    0
    24 November 2012 08: 48
    If the money that goes into the black pockets of doctors and commissars were used to pay contract workers...
    The worst thing about this whole “market” system of military personnel is that those who are not offended by the banknotes (or more often, those who are not offended by their parents with the banknotes) get off, and then the military registration and enlistment office has to carry out the plan and begins raking in the unhealthy (even mentally !!!) guys who are really there there is nothing to catch. Moreover, in the case of mentally clumsy people, it’s even worse, because... these citizens are unpredictable and the likelihood of his suicide is no less than the likelihood of his colleagues being shot wassat
  58. 0
    25 November 2012 06: 34
    Imagine (God forbid) a war starts. And the call sounds: Everyone who doesn’t have money, to defend the Motherland!!! The rest are at the cash register.
  59. SAVA555.IVANOV
    +2
    25 November 2012 16: 44
    Children are to blame!!??? Because the officers don’t want to make the Army and Navy out of the army and navy, it was they who served for apartments and benefits that allowed such a phenomenon as “hazing” to grow and take on ugly forms, maybe that’s why God sent them the so-called Taburetkin (as they howled at his command))))) Show that you are officers and We ourselves will admonish our children to go to the Army and Navy. You still can’t put things in order in the units where you are listed, just listed and not working, the whole world is shouting to you “Come to your senses!!!” so what!?" AND WHO IS STILL THERE"
    1. 0
      7 December 2012 13: 53
      Howl rather, dear!
      To say that officers are to blame for all the unrest in the army is as stupid as to say that engineers and technicians are to blame for the collapse of the high-tech industry in Russia.
      He probably can’t even put things in order in the toilet, but here he goes:
      Quote: SAVA555.IVANOV
      The whole world is shouting "Remember!!!

      You would be better off shouting to the powers that be... But no, the tongue immediately tightens....
      1. SAVA555.IVANOV
        0
        7 December 2012 20: 18
        Read my comments, I don’t pour oil anywhere and I don’t nod my head in agreement if someone is wrong.
        Get yourself some more or less serious opponents and talk about the toilet. You would have made another comment next year, Tongue-stricken!!!!!
        Who do you think are the “powers of this world”??
  60. +1
    25 November 2012 16: 55
    Thank God, the reason has been found.
    After all, it has long been known that the correct diagnosis (and this is finding the cause) is half of a successful solution. That's it. There will be no more draft dodgers.
    But for some reason doubts creep in about such optimism. Maybe because no matter what problem is discussed, in 99% of cases its source and cause is called corruption. So maybe corruption is not a cause, but a problem that has hundreds of causes? And it is useless to fight it because it is necessary to fight not with it, but with the real reasons that cause it?
    Please understand correctly - the case with Taburetkin, Vasilyeva and the like are not discussed. This is undoubtedly corruption, but political will and investigators are enough to combat it.
    And when the whole country is permeated with the principle of non-interference of morality in commercial and working relations, this is no longer corruption. This is the immorality of society.
    After all, in any act of corruption there are at least two people involved (in fact, there are always more) - the taker and the giver. Moreover, usually both are normal members of society (in the mass), not Chikatils, not Chubais. In everyday life - normal people. And this is not one, not two people. Almost anyone (of course, not everyone) will not give up extra money for the budget.
    What they do is not morally assessed by them as bad, only as necessary to live.
    This is something worth thinking about - why do people have to act immorally in order to live? Then the reasons will emerge. A lot of.
    In the meantime, we blame corruption for all our troubles, we simply say that our people (acquaintances, friends) are crap and scum.
    There are no such people among my friends.
  61. OvsyannikovVA
    0
    25 November 2012 17: 21
    I read the comments and remembered the book “Starship Troopers” by Robert Anson. Who read it, what do you think of the ideas expressed there?