Armor and sights of the new T-62M for a special operation: what was and what was the result

Their mass production was announced last fall. Thousands of comments have been written about their need for the front and their capabilities in modern combat and the same number of copies have been broken. And now the time has come - a battalion of modernized tanks The T-62M has already left for the zone of the special military operation, and the second one is preparing to be sent behind it.

And since the time has come, the time has come to take a closer look at these vehicles and figure out what changes in terms of security and sighting system were introduced by specialists from the 103rd BTRZ in Atamanovka, where the tanks are being finalized.

Why only sights and protection?

The question is quite natural, since the installation of new sights and refinement in terms of vehicle security is, perhaps, not a complete list of innovations for the T-62M tanks undergoing modernization at the 103rd BTRZ. However, there is simply no reliable information about what else was added there. They talk a lot, but without specifics.

It is possible that the communication systems were also improved, and the native engines of the vehicles, according to complaints from the Army-2022 forum, were changed to the B-46-5 with a capacity of 780 horsepower from the T-72 series tanks. At the same time, they could simply get by with a major overhaul and installation of what is already required by the T-62M state.

So for now, let's go with what we have. Fortunately, Lieutenant General and State Duma deputy Andrey Gurulyov, who became a kind of herald of the Ataman Repair Plant, showed and spoke in detail about the aiming system and the protection of tanks sent to the front.

The security of the updated T-62M

As you know, the security of Soviet-style T-62M tanks, even at the time of their creation - the revision of old T-62s to the new standard - in the 80s of the last century could not boast of outstanding performance.

The armor of the hull and turret is exclusively steel, covered in the frontal parts with armored packages made of steel sheets and a polyurethane layer, providing resistance against sub-caliber projectiles in the range of 320-350 mm, according to various estimates, and up to 420-450 mm from cumulative ammunition. And in the sides of the additional protection there are only rubber-fabric anti-cumulative screens.

The blocks of additional armor on the turret and hull of the T-62M are clearly visible.

40 years ago, this was hardly enough to counter the shells of NATO 105-mm cannons and some hand-held anti-tank weapons. Now, based on the annual experience of a special military operation, there is not enough for anything.

Anti-tank grenades, guided missiles and other ammunition from the enemy's arsenal make it clear that the T-62M has nothing to do there without serious modification. At a minimum, the car needs to be equipped with dynamic protection.

But what did the specialists from the 103rd BTRZ in Atamanovka suggest? To be honest, the hybrid turned out not without questions. And, warning all the comments: yes, it could have been better - for example, you can look at the T-55 from Transmash, the body kit of which would look great on the T-62M. But we proceed from what we have now.

Modernization of the T-55 from Transmash. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

First of all, it should be noted that tanks seem to have begun to be standardized in terms of dynamic protection, which was completely absent on some modernized T-62Ms. True, we are talking about hinged "reactive armor" of the "Contact" type, effective only against cumulative artillery shells, anti-tank missiles and grenades with a monobloc warhead. Nevertheless, even in the current conditions, its presence is already a big plus.

Modernized T-62M in the workshop of the 103rd BTRZ. Visible dynamic protection on the frontal parts of the hull and the roof of the tower

However, the location of the elements of the remote sensing is somewhat strange. And no, the question is not about the forehead of the hull, as one of the most exposed parts of the tank to shelling. And the roof of the tower, equipped with the same dynamic protection, is extremely useful, although not against the Javelins, of course. But for cluster munitions attacking the roof and other abominations of a similar plan, it’s very quite.

The question is that the forehead of the hull with additional armor received dynamic protection, and the forehead of the turret, judging by the frames, both from the factory and from the zone of the special military operation, remained with only “eyebrows”. In short, they "halved", strengthening the protection of the hull from missiles and grenades almost twice, leaving the tower in the standard version.

What was the reason for such a decision is quite clear.

In principle, it is clear that there is simply no generally accepted project for refining the “eyebrows” with dynamic protection. In addition, this is extra weight for the already overloaded T-62M chassis and turret, and there are also some difficulties in the operational plan. But there are actually many more effective options, ranging from installing Kontakt instead of additional turret armor, or, as the Omsk people from Transmash suggested, installing Kontakt-5 instead of all these structures. But the development of technical documentation, approval, cutting of overlays and installation of DZ blocks is long and costly in all respects in the current conditions. It’s easier to fit bare T-62s without the “M” index into this matter.

Modernized T-62 from Omsk "Transmash". The tank turret is equipped with dynamic protection "Contact-5"

In general, we have what we have.

Also, the aft part of the towers of the upgraded T-62M is equipped with anti-cumulative lattice screens. They, subject to the correct distribution of the thickness of the ribs and the gaps between them, are able to provide protection against anti-tank grenades of the PG-7 type with a probability of up to 50% without their detonation. In the rest, it is a thing, rather, of an applied nature, which works as baskets for transporting various kinds of belongings.

On this with regards to security, perhaps that's all. Although the footage from the 103rd BTRZ also featured the T-62 without additional armor on the hull and turret, but completely hung with dynamic protection. But this, apparently, is the T-62MV tank, which was regularly equipped with the Contact dynamic protection back in the 80s, but also got under modernization along with the T-62M.

T-62MV, also subject to modernization at the 103rd BTRZ

Now there is a thermal imager

Unlike its old counterparts, the Soviet-style T-62M had a number of improvements in the sighting part and could fire guided missiles of the Sheksna complex.

In particular, we are talking about the Volna fire control system, which consisted of four main elements: a TSHSM-41U optical articulated sight with an exit window to the left of the gun, a KDT-1-1 (KDT-2) laser rangefinder, a ballistic calculator and stabilizer "Cyclone-M1". All this was supplemented by executive systems and relevant controls.

Above the cannon is visible the body of the transceiver of the laser rangefinder. Source: vitalykuzmin.net

In practice, the operation of this system made it possible to determine the range to the target, as well as to determine its angular velocity. Accordingly, the ballistic computer in semi-automatic mode gave the necessary corrections for the aiming angle and lateral lead.

Yes, this whole system did not reach the level of 1G46 in some T-80U, T-90 or the current "mobilization" T-80BVM, but at least there is some kind of automation for preparing a shot.

As for the missiles, the 1K13 sight / guidance device was used to control them, the exit window of which - under the armor cap and protection cover - was on the roof of the tower.

Reservation of the sight / guidance device 1K13 on the Soviet-style T-62M. On the side walls one can see an anti-neutron bulge.

It has the ability to both target missiles and fire from a cannon with conventional shells and a machine gun coaxial with it at night at a distance of up to 1 m when illuminated by an infrared searchlight and up to 200 meters in a passive mode.

Sight / guidance device 1K13

Now, judging by the available open data, including detailed videos of journalists, it was decided to remove the ability to measure the range and develop corrections for firing in semi-automatic mode for the optical channel. As evidenced by the absence of a laser rangefinder - in its place you can observe a stub.

Upgraded T-62M in the special operation zone. The machine does not have a laser rangefinder above the gun. Instead of the 1K13 sight, 1PN96MT-02 was installed

But this does not mean that the automation of the modernized T-62M was cut out in the bud.

The same sight / guidance device for the 1K13 missile, which was available on the Soviet T-62M, in the course of finalization for the special operation fronts, is replaced by a thermal imaging sight 1PN96MT-02 - a contraption that became an attribute of both the newly produced T-2023BVM and T-80B72 in 3 .

Left - display and control panel sight 1PN96MT-02

It does not play the role of the legendary Sosna-U, but its capabilities, although limited by an uncooled thermal imaging matrix with not the highest resolution, significantly exceed those of 1K13 on an image intensifier tube.

Still, the new “teplak” provides a target detection range within a couple of kilometers at night, and this cannot be compared with 1K13, which, when illuminated by an infrared searchlight, can nominally give visibility of 1 meters, but in practice sometimes even less. And this is provided that 200PN1MT-96 during the day will also provide an invaluable service, especially in poor visibility.

In addition to the thermal imaging channel, the new sight on the upgraded T-62M has a laser rangefinder and, apparently, its own ballistic computer. So the main functionality of the "Wave", but already in the new version in the face of 1PN96MT-02, is preserved - corrections for the distance to the target and its angular velocity can still be done.

As for launching guided missiles through a cannon barrel, now the modified T-62M is deprived of this possibility.

Sight 1PN96MT-02

The 1K13 sight has been removed from the tank, but the new one does not have this functionality. However, this can hardly be considered a major drawback, since tank ATGMs themselves are rather specific ammunition, both in terms of the conditions of use and in terms of the skills that are required from the gunner-operator. And are there any rockets for "sixty-two" in the warehouses?

Conclusions

There is a high probability that the discussion of this material will eventually slide into disputes that have been raging for more than a month about why the T-62M is removed from storage and sent to the fronts of a special military operation. But the topic in our case is different: to see what was added and what was removed.

Within its framework, it can be unequivocally said that the installation of a thermal imaging sight is something that cannot be dispensed with now. Of course, the "teplac" will not put the "sixty-two" on a par with the most modern vehicles, but will allow the tank to more effectively deal with a wide range of threats on the battlefield. Albeit due to the lack of the ability to fire guided missiles. So the decision is definitely correct.

Another thing is that in terms of equipping dynamic protection, it turned out, roughly speaking, very far from ideal. Yes, covering the roof of the turret and the forehead of the hull even with the old "Contact" will bring tangible benefits - there is no doubt. But with the frontal part of the tower, one could do much more “humanely”, taking as a basis a sample from the Omsk “Transmash” or even getting by with the installation of “Contact” instead of bare armor plates.

The epithets in the style of “modern” or “meeting all requirements” are hardly applicable to the T-62, even if it has been modernized at least a hundred times. Nevertheless, it can be summarized: it has become much better than it was before. It remains to be hoped that since the grandiose plans to revive the "sixty-two" have nevertheless begun to be implemented, then some shortcomings in the defense will someday be taken into account.

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

Yes, thanks to the Soviet government even for such tanks ...

And are there any rockets for "sixty-two" in the warehouses?

Even there, are they not more dangerous for the crew than for the enemy?

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

thanks to the Soviet government

And not only for tanks, but for many more!

[invisible_man]

thanks to the Soviet government

Yes, any normal government should think about maintaining the Armed Forces in an adequate condition.

[Uncle lee]

Quote from invisible_man

any normal government should think about maintaining the Armed Forces

And how to characterize the adequacy of Serdyukov's actions? And the term "Serdyukovshchina"?

[ZhEK-Vodogrey]

Quote from Uncle Lee

And how to characterize the adequacy of Serdyukov's actions?

To the activities of Serdyukov and the real state of the Russian army by 2008, there is a lot of bias. Thanks to Serdyukov, a truly massive T-72B3 tank with a thermal imager appeared in the army. Serdyukov's strong-willed decision to abandon purchases of the T-90 and begin mass modernization of the T-72B justified itself, since the T-90 UVZ requested 118 million (raising the price by 70% in a year). And the T-72B3 cost 52 million. And it must be compared with the basis of our armored vehicles for 2010 - the T-72A and B, produced in the USSR and pretty worn out since then. It was necessary to replace about 2000 vehicles of the first line as soon as possible, otherwise the armored personnel carriers would simply die out, reduced to a couple of court divisions.
As for the T-62, the Russian Federation has a total of about 900 T-62 tanks, of which 150, according to the end of 2011, were in the army. In Transbaikalia, 800 units will be modernized. The decision was justified, since the T-62M tanks that got to the SVO directly from storage were often abandoned by the crews due to technical malfunctions.

[invisible_man]

It's scary to look at this rubbish. They took it from the landfill, didn't they? How are Khokhls not afraid to sit on it? The gun will fall off, crush ...

[Bad_gr]

Quote: ZhEK-Vodogrey

Thanks to Serdyukov, he appeared in the army .....

At the initiative of Serdyukov, the Headquarters of the Navy from Moscow (from under the anti-missile umbrella) was moved to St. Petersburg.
Can you explain why this was done?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Bad_gr

Can you explain why this was done?

As part of the fight against excessive Moscow-centricity, when all the controls of the Armed Forces are concentrated on the arrival spot of the warhead of one ICBM.
And also in the framework of the struggle for the transformation of the Ministry of Defense into the Ministry of Defense, and not commerce and the solution of its own affairs. Let me remind you that the main argument against the transfer of the admirals was the availability of housing, their own business and personal connections in Moscow.
EMNIP, it came to direct sabotage, when only at the final stage it turned out that the existing communication channels did not have the required bandwidth for the work of the headquarters from St. Petersburg. But the verification and modernization of the communication network should have been recorded by the fleet even at the stage of the technical specification for the equipment of the new headquarters.

[Petr_Koldunov]

Quote: Alexey RA

As part of the fight against excessive Moscow-centricity, when all the controls of the Armed Forces are concentrated on the arrival spot of the warhead of one ICBM.

And the complete elimination by Serdyukov of the institute of ensigns in the army (which at all times has been the backbone of our army) is in the framework of the fight against what? With jokes about ensigns?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Peter_Koldunov

And the complete elimination by Serdyukov of the institute of ensigns in the army (which at all times has been the backbone of our army) is in the framework of the fight against what? With jokes about ensigns?

No. This is the result of the incompleteness of Serdyukov's reform, cut off halfway through. Ensigns were supposed to be replaced by professional contract sergeants (hello US Armed Forces). But they managed to reduce warrant officers, and they spared money for sergeants (because a specialist must be paid).
In general, none of Serdyukov's reforms was carried through to the end. For example, instead of fully combat-ready contract brigades - trained, well-coordinated and able to work in the same SVO in full force - we received semi-contract-half-term brigades, and even with cadre units. And then the same divisions, from which a consolidated reinforced regiment is scraped into the zone of operation along the bottom of the barrel.

[Pane Kohanku]

And then the same divisions

By the way, the divisions were the most successful. If we take the Kremennaya-Kupyansk front. Smolensk, Bryansk, Voronezh infantry are fighting there, and quite successfully.
Alexey, more. Bandera was promised to supply "Leopard-1". It seems that the T-62 is still better ...

[ZhEK-Vodogrey]

Quote: Pane Kohanku

Bandera was promised to supply "Leopard-1". It seems that the T-62 is still better ...

They will put proto-ukrams, including under a hundred Leopard 1A5DK, this tank is advanced, with a modified turret.

[Pane Kohanku]

They will put proto-ukrams, including under a hundred Leopard 1A5DK, this tank is advanced, with a modified turret.

Telegram channel "Resident" today said the following:

Western tanks have been imported to Ukraine for a month now and form new units in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Statements that the first deliveries are expected at the end of March were made on purpose so that the enemy did not know about their deployment and did not expect their use as an element of an information war. Germany and Poland have already transferred more than 80 Leopardov, as well as about 50 T-72 and RT Twardy.

In general, this is normal for them - first to deliver, prepare, and only then announce ... As in the situation with all other types of weapons and equipment.
Yesterday, car registrars captured a whole convoy of light vehicles in Ukraine. "Humvee" (mostly in desert coloring) and either Oshkosh M-ATV, or Oshkosh M-ATV. I don’t remember, did UWB even say that they would supply Oshkosh?
In any case, the Americans do not need this equipment in huge quantities now, they are getting rid of the excess.

[ZhEK-Vodogrey]

Quote: Pane Kohanku

Yesterday, car registrars captured a whole convoy of light vehicles in Ukraine. "Humvee" (mostly in desert coloring) and either Oshkosh M-ATV, or Oshkosh M-ATV.

They write that this column is moving to Artyomovsk and that Syrsky was given unlimited resources to release it. Or maybe they are being driven to some armored personnel carrier, for completion and repainting.
By the way, they say they removed the reinforcement from the Belarusian direction and are also being transferred to the east. Teogramm channel Resident for protoukrov seems to be ours.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

And how did we manage WWII without ensigns? And WWI, when warrant officers were lieutenants, and there was no separate rank for thieving non-commissioned officers?

[saigon]

Sorry, the ensign in the Republic of Ingushetia during WWI and earlier was no match for the lieutenant,

[Negro]

Quote: Alexey RA

Let me remind you that the admirals' main argument against the transfer was the availability of housing, their own business and personal connections in Moscow.

The admiral needs the sea once a year on vacation, and he needs to eat three times a day. Naturally, he should sit next to the bread slicer crossed out by the Ministry of Finance, and not by the sea.

[dump22]

Can you explain why this was done?

1. All treason in the headquarters (c) Chapaev
2. In the event of a conflict, the leadership of the Navy would still instantly move from the Central Command Center, located at headquarters in Moscow, to the OKP, located in a completely different place

[Alexey Lantukh]

In NZ, as a rule, a lot of equipment is stored, the serviceability of which, especially the full serviceability, often raises questions. Directly from NZ in no case should be sent to the front.

[paul3390]

T-90 UVZ requested 118 million

A reasonable question arises - who owns UVZ? If the state-then why it can not reason on the prices of their own property? If highly effective owners - then why is a strategic enterprise in their hands, and again - why does the state, like, have no leverage to influence them? And then we don’t know how it’s done - it’s enough to say face! tax, firefighters, labor protection and other nice organizations .. And everyone usually understands everything at once .. And here - you see, in no way ..

[Negro]

Quote: paul3390

A reasonable question arises - who owns UVZ? If the state - then why can't it reason with the prices of its own property?

But we don’t know anything about the activities of the Soviet military-industrial complex and Russian state-owned factories?

[paul3390]

Do you know something sacred, secret? Do not languish - shed the light of your wisdom on us ..

[Negro]

What is the secret here? The industry has almost always put cancer on the army, the opposite cases are much less common.

[Timur_kz]

That is, UVZ could also raise the price by 70 percent, spitting on the State Planning Commission and the Council of Ministers?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: paul3390

.... and who owns UVZ? ....

Uralvagonzavod, as part of the UVZ Concern, is part of the Rostec State Corporation.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Timur_kz

That is, UVZ could also raise the price by 70 percent, spitting on the State Planning Commission and the Council of Ministers?

That is, UVZ could not give a damn about the decision of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers - and instead of the simplified T-64 entrusted to it, roll out to the army a tank of its own design, which was not recorded in any document. And declare that there will be no other.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: paul3390

A reasonable question arises - who owns UVZ? If the state - then why can't it reason with the prices of its own property?

Even in Soviet times, our state could not reason with the military-industrial complex. The army regularly received not what it ordered, but what was beneficial to the proms. Under the IVS, the industrialists even threw off the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, who prevented them from driving junk pre-war projects to the fleet without much effort. And then the situation changed little - remember at least how the Air Force received hundreds of Yakovlev’s planes that were not accepted for service, and instead of the simplified T-64, the BTV received the second MBT - T-72, and then the third - T-80. And about the zoo of the Strategic Missile Forces and reluctance to remember.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

The president of General Dynamics (which fought the Pentagon for ten years to push the idle Bradley infantry fighting vehicle into service) frankly admitted: "I would dream of working not for the USA, but for the USSR military-industrial complex,"

[cast iron]

The question arises, why do you, living in a capitalist bourgeois state, ask such rhetorical questions?

[Alexey Lantukh]

The price of the product is a tricky thing, even with correct and fair pricing. One price for ordering a batch of 100 tanks and another - for 500, and even more so 1000 tanks. In addition, modernization is often cheaper than a completely new tank. It has always been so.

[Igorash]

Don’t tell me .. Such a high price was due to the installation of French thermal imagers, which turned out to be to hell after the very first winter .. Which Commander-in-Chief Maslov warned about ... Therefore, Ln was against such T-90s ... And modernization The T-72 under Serdyukov was obscene and gave little to the car ... And now nothing is being done, in fact, without direct instructions due to the war ... In the army, where the correspondent from the TV broadcasts in the rank of lieutenant general and the head of the BT service in the rank there will never be a major general of order ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Igorash

And the modernization of the T-72 under Serdyukov was obscene and gave little to the car ...

The modernization of the T-72 under the furniture maker gave the army massive tanks with new "offal". Bulk - more than 750 pieces in the first five years. And not 65 pieces a year, as before.
Let me remind you that in 2008 the main tanks of the RA were the T-72A and B. Moreover, they were released under the USSR and have not been modernized or repaired since then (because overhaul for a quarter of a century has been going on at a rate of "company a year"). And this is at best - some of them had "bald" T-62s and even T-55AMs.
It is with them that the T-72B3 should be compared.

[ramzay21]

Ivanov-Serdyukov-Shoigu, it was they who led the Defense Ministry for the last 20 years and spent money on the army, and as shown by the NWO, they spent it absolutely mediocre. Therefore, it is they and the one who appointed them who should be responsible for what they did to our army such that the tanks developed 60 years ago went into battle.
As for Serdyukov, it was he who destroyed the rembats and left the BTV without rembats, it was he who destroyed our mob system based on cadre units, it was he who destroyed the Soviet military education and began to play with the organizational structure, putting brigades instead of divisions. Nobody argues that our army needed reforms, but only for the last 30 years all reforms in our country have been made by people who do not understand anything about what they are reforming, with the same result, and until fools are forbidden to make reforms, these reforms will only lead to degradation

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

Your system showed itself perfectly in the 1st Chechen. When 50 field troops could not be assembled from a one and a half million army. And the collected ones were no good. And then the NATO armies did not have time to shrink and there were three million. They would go through the old system and not notice.

[ramzay21]

In the first Chechen army, after ten years of deliberate destruction of the army, it showed itself well, and it defeated the main enemy forces. The main reason for the defeats in that war is the absolute Russophobes at the head of our country and our army, who constantly betrayed our army and our country, and in fact fought against us. Not a single army in the world could have won under the leadership of Yeltsin and Pasha-Mercedes, with henchmen Berezovsky Chubais and other creatures.
But the army needed reforms, instead of which Ivanov-Serdyukov-Shoigu finished off the combat capability of the army somewhere by actions and somewhere by inaction, at least none of this trio had the idea to arm the army with UAVs, which now only the most backward countries of Africa do not have, no further discussion can be made.

[Deon59]

By March 1995, the militants were pressed against the wall. But there were checkpoints with the Ministry of Internal Affairs and insanity began, when everything was passed for money and the sale.

[Proctologist]

I consider Serdyukov a spectacular scapegoat with his mistress Vasilyeva. However, if you look at things soberly, he did more good than the brutal Shoigu.

[Lexey_2]

Doesn't bother you? Well, the grass is green there. Is everything okay?

[Vampires]

On the real technique of ours, Z does not write so much) So most likely a profanity, pass off yours as ours)

[moscowp]

It’s not even embarrassing anymore, but simply ridiculous when, 10 years after Serdyukov’s departure, they continue to open the envelope “blame everything on the predecessor.”

[Vyacheslav Ermolaev]

Well, it means so "good" he worked, practically destroying the personnel of military acceptance and the institute of ensigns. There is no need to destroy a lot of mind, skill and time. For restoration, all this is required and in large quantities.

[moscowp]

They forgot to mention Lenin among the guilty. Lenin screwed it up a hundred years ago, they say that we are now conducting a special operation with our neighbors.

[Alexey Lantukh]

In general, the Minister of Defense acts within the framework of the legislation and the financial plan of the ministry. That's according to this financial plan and spend money. And a problem arises: order 100 new ones or 500 modernized ones, buy a "Warrior" or not buy, how effective is some kind of novelty or does it only work in the laboratory.

[Sebostyuan]

There is someone to learn from. Since the dashing 90s, 20 years have passed, but there are still those who blame all their failures on that time.

[parma]

Quote: Uncle Lee

Quote from invisible_man

any normal government should think about maintaining the Armed Forces

And how to characterize the adequacy of Serdyukov's actions? And the term "Serdyukovshchina"?

And let's really see what was done under Serdyukov? Our army began to receive: GAZ "Tiger", "lynx", BTR-82, T-72B3, Su-34, a set of "warrior" and so on ... those are most of what is in our army - the development of "Serdyukovshchina" ... And what projects of the “rescuer” (he has been driving “Serdyukovism” for two terms) have reached the army, well, except for biathlon and the return of the T-62 to the unit (under Serdyukov, after 080808 they began to be abandoned) ..

[Uncle lee]

Quote: parma

And what are the projects of the "rescuer"

I didn't say a word about him! And I won't tell! If the mats are removed, then there is nothing to say ....

[JPD]

But here it’s not worth dumping everything in one pile ... Lynx (iveco) and where are they? Ratnik kits - where are they?! The Ministry of Defense could not properly put on and put on the mobilized, and so many things can be continued ...

[insafufa]

T-62 as a reinforcement of block posts is an excellent thing. In the Caucasus, I’ll say it’s easier with him than without him.

[Adrey]

Quote: insafufa

T-62 as a reinforcement of block posts is an excellent thing. In the Caucasus, I’ll say it’s easier with him than without him.

That's just NWO is more like a full-fledged military conflict, and not a "police operation."
Under these conditions, a typical checkpoint in the rear at a crossroads with "police" functions does not really need a tank. And if you take into account the platoon-company opornik, then this is LBS

[insafufa]

The T-62, in fact, as a mobile self-propelled gun, is used for the most part in the same way, and the T-72 is hit from closed positions on the enemy’s defensive positions.
If you dig into the stronghold of the company in addition to the BMP-2, T-62, then behind some river you can defend with the support of ATGMs

[Adrey]

Quote: insafufa

If you dig into the stronghold of the company in addition to the BMP-2, T-62, then behind some river you can defend with the support of ATGMs

It is clear that with any tank it is better than without a tank at all.
I'm talking about what you are describing, this is not the rear in any case, but the LBS.
This is to the fact that many here say that supposedly T-62s will be used in the rear. On some 2nd - 3rd line. True, no one specifies how these lines look.

[insafufa]

Quote: Adrey

I'm talking about what you are describing, this is not the rear in any case, but the LBS.

LBS, you understand when the partisans around him simply don’t have the outer edge of your trenches, that’s the LBS line.
I am greatly jarred by the fact that the ZSU build their oporniks with all-round defense, and ours only on one side from the conditional direction of the enemy. Although, according to the charters, even a company or platoon oprnik is built with all-round defense in case the enemy infiltrates.

[Adrey]

Quote: insafufa

LBS, you understand when the partisans around him simply don’t have the outer edge of your trenches, that’s the LBS line.

So far, we have not heard about mass partisans in the rear. And from a group of 3-5 people acting on the principle of "hit and run" the tank will not help. Only as a target for ATGM

[alexmach]

T-62 is essentially used as a mobile self-propelled gun

And why not use as self-propelled guns .. self-propelled guns?
It seems that there should be plenty of Carnations and Acacia in storage. And they are clearly not inferior to tanks as self-propelled guns. Ammunition problem? Well, the industry probably makes sense to solve this problem in the first place, no?

[Zefr]

Somewhere there was an interview with a volunteer contractor. As far as I remember, they had just an acacia. Nothing works, manual loading, a worn chassis, a shot barrel. No one wants to repair, supposedly it is not advisable. The volunteer was disappointed and said that he would not renew the contract under such conditions.

[Alexey Lantukh]

I also read this interview. Acacia is the oldest self-propelled gun with all the ensuing consequences. The same contractor praised the MSTA self-propelled guns.

[Negro]

Quote from Uncle Lee

And how to characterize the adequacy of Serdyukov's actions?

Apparently the best MO in post-Soviet history.

What’s the question?

[Plover]

It's time to stop blaming everything on Serdyukov, Shoigu. Did they themselves appear as "devils from a snuffbox"? Or did someone appoint them? And note that both Serdyukov and Shoigu were appointed in succession. Their fault is quite clear, but the root cause of such an aphedron is not in them.

[anclevalico]

100% I adequacy. Chel neatly and accurately completed the task spoiled for him. Questions are not to the performer, but to the one who set the task.

[AAK]

Dear colleague Invisible! You yourself have already answered your own remark with the third word in the post, there’s nothing more to say ... Now in Russia new tanks, EMNIP, are produced only by UZTM, but where did the tank-building capacities in Omsk, Nizhny Tagil and St. Petersburg go?

[Dante Alighieri]

Now in Russia, new tanks, EMNIP, are produced only by UZTM, but where did the tank-building capacities in Omsk, Nizhny Tagil and St. Petersburg go?

In general, all the new tanks that are today produced in Russia are produced by the Nizhny Tagil Uralvagonzavod, and not by the Yekaterinburg Uralmash, which is engaged in the production of equipment for the mining complex, metallurgy, construction and the energy industry. As for Omsktranmash, now its facilities are busy modernizing the already built T-80s. The Leningrad Design Bureau, which was previously located at the plant named after V.I. Kirov in Petersburg. What the Petersburg plant itself is doing today - I won’t tell you.

But the question is not even what the "core" tank enterprises are doing, but where the tractor and repair plants have disappeared, which could be redesigned for the needs of the military-industrial complex, for example, for the same modernization of old tanks. Where was once Europe's largest Volgograd Tractor Plant, or Rubtsovsk Tractor Plant in Altai? But the latter, according to the old mobilization plans, was just supposed to "bring to life" the equipment that is stored in the Central Base of the Tank Reserve near the village of Topchikha in the Altai Territory - probably the largest storage base for tank equipment in our country. Everything was destroyed, nothing remained, even the foundations and road slabs were dismantled.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Dante

As for Omsktranmash, now its facilities are busy modernizing the already built T-80s. T

Omsk is also UVZ.
It is noteworthy that while Omsk was independent, UVZ blasphemed the T-80 in every possible way and extolled its T-72s. As soon as UVZ bought the Omsk plant, all claims to the T-80 disappeared immediately, and in Omsk they continued to modernize them (and in parallel the plant was loaded with the T-72B3 program).

[Ivan 1980]

Omsktransmash is engaged in the production of "Sontsepekov" and t80 + ​​repair of these products

[Alexey Lantukh]

The Volgograd Tractor Plant no longer exists. Was abandoned for several years. Perhaps already torn apart. However, the military part of the production has been preserved and is part of Rostec. Produces landing vehicles BMD, Octopus.

[insafufa]

Quote: AAK

Nizhny Tagil

Uralvagonzavod produces T-90M

Quote: AAK

Petersburg

Reposed a long time ago produces Kirovites only, that is, tractors.

Quote: AAK

Omsk

He carried out the modernization and restoration of the T-72 A, bringing them to the level of T-72 B3 2016. It produces solar panels and self-propelled ferries on a tank chassis, and modernizes the T-80.

[Ady66]

Uralmash, at the moment, is fragmented into a bunch of small desks, most of the territory and premises are leased. Only plant No. 9 actually works, but it was not part of Uralmash anyway.

[insafufa]

[media=http://youtu.be/C3-Hj9fVyjo]

Quote: Ady66

Ady66
16 March 2023 10: 02
NEW

+7
Uralmash, at the moment, is fragmented into a bunch of small desks, most of the territory and premises are leased. Only plant No. 9 actually works, but it was not part of Uralmash anyway.

[media=http://youtu.be/C3-Hj9fVyjo]

[Saburov_Alexander53]

I believe, the calculation of the number of tanks. Nobody is going to throw the T-62 into an open tank battle against more modern enemy tanks. Let's consider it a reinforced self-propelled gun, like "Carnation" or "Acacia". We are not killed about them, that they are no match for a good tank in a collision.

[75 Sergey]

Well, if you attach a modern anti-tank complex to the tower, consisting of, say, -4 shots, then it might be nice to snap and screw up like that.

[parma]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

I believe, the calculation of the number of tanks. Nobody is going to throw the T-62 into an open tank battle against more modern enemy tanks. Let's consider it a reinforced self-propelled gun, like "Carnation" or "Acacia". We are not killed about them, that they are no match for a good tank in a collision.

If no one plans to send them into battle, how then have the Armed Forces of Ukraine already destroyed and trophied under fifty? ... Well, yes, do you consider the existing “carnations” and “acacia” modern? ...

[Saburov_Alexander53]

well, yes, but do you consider the existing “carnations” and “acacia” modern? ...
They fight and show themselves well! On both sides, D-30 howitzers of 1960 invention are used, where the crew is not covered by anything from the "return" and nothing .... No one claims that the T-62s will be alone against the Ukrainian T-64s or Leopards, Challengers. Everywhere they already write that tank battles are not practiced in this war, but for a positional war, as now, let them shoot at dugouts and armored personnel carriers. If they could quickly increase the production of the latest tanks, of course they would not contact the T-62.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

Have the Armed Forces of Ukraine already destroyed and trophied under fifty? ...
They even captured and destroyed the T-80 and T-90 ... so what? In your opinion, they could not be used in battles, do you want "Armata" or "Merkava"? If the T-62s were in reserve for conservation, then it was designed for that. And their modernization is not at all to the detriment of the construction of new tanks - a completely different enterprise in Chita. I have more questions about the helmets of our fighters. There are just like skullcaps, with cutouts for head phones, where one cerebellum is covered. Head protection is hard to come by with a helmet like this. But they use...

[Adrey]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

Let's consider it a reinforced self-propelled gun, like "Carnation" or "Acacia".

Yes, whatever you think . But, if it flies like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. . If used as a tank, then it is a tank and period.

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

We are not killed about them, that they are no match for a good tank in a collision.

Self-propelled guns and a tank are things that are completely incommensurable in terms of tasks. And if one tries to replace the other, then nothing good will come of it.

[nedgen]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

I believe, the calculation of the number of tanks. Nobody is going to throw the T-62 into an open tank battle against more modern enemy tanks. Let's consider it a reinforced self-propelled gun, like "Carnation" or "Acacia". We are not killed about them, that they are no match for a good tank in a collision.

Well, if you calculate that 120-130 Leopardioks will be delivered to dill - 1, then the T-62M looks very good against them. In the forehead, scrap from 105mm T-62M probably holds from 500 or 1000m. And the T-62 Leo-1A5 scrap does not hold even from 2 - 3 km. Such are the things. At one time, it was indicated that the M-60A3 T-62 penetrates from 2,5 km, and the forehead of the M-60 is, if I’m not mistaken, 120 mm, while the Leo-1A5 has only 80 mm of homogeneous armor !!!

[certero]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

Nobody is going to throw the T-62 into an open tank battle against more modern enemy tanks.

And you did not forget to ask the enemy? Is he going to consider these tanks as just self-propelled guns, or will he take and throw in the most modern Western models?

[Irokez]

And I must also say thanks to Tsarist Russia for Mosinki and Maxim machine guns.
Thank you to say to everyone who defended the honor of Russia at all times.

[Joker62]

Good article. And without any embellishment.
And now to the point.
Upgrading the T-62 tank to the T-62MV is a very necessary thing.
Especially has a strong contrast between the Artemovsky RemZavod and TransMash.
I personally really liked the car from Omsk TransMasha. It is immediately clear that they approached the matter more seriously, and in my opinion, more competently. After all, the design school from Soviet times is still alive there.
I wish both factories successful fulfillment of orders.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Joker62

Upgrading the T-62 tank to the T-62MV is a very necessary thing.

This is when the “birdless” and the ass is a nightingale!
If everything is so correct and prudent, why are some civilians (military too) interested in the armor of "Abrams" and other "Members"?
Tell us, will 100 An-2s be able to fight with a dozen F-16s?
When the matter is taken seriously, they do not engage in biathlons in the absence of the tanks themselves and do not conduct "air darts" due to the absence of the aircraft themselves.
The design school of the Soviet era has long since died out. The boys remained, who managed to pick up the "tops", mastered the general look ... but in life something else is required:

* * *
With this approach, some may find conditions for the modernization of the T-34 ...
I suppose you also consider a “motorcycle league” with a module attached to the stern to be the height of perfection and the fruit of genius?
I see something else. The elementary lack of state thinking, the ability to single out priority tasks, the blathering of emerging problems in the development of the defense industry.
Let not entirely successful, let the archaic Soviet production could be rebuilt and give the country what it needs. They didn’t fight on armored cars, although there was a place for cavalry in WWII ...
Lived up. Shame! For more than thirty years they have been hanging noodles on their ears. Instead of the EBN-center, a new plant had to be built in order to produce the best tanks in the world. Dust in the eyes at the parade will be let in and sleep peacefully ...
Wake up!!! There is no one in the country to give birth!!!

[Uncle lee]

Quote: ROSS 42

sleep peacefully...
Wake up !!!

Tired....

[fiberboard]

I liked the second part of the comment. But comparing the T-62 with the An-2 is hardly correct. Rather, with the MiG-21, and the modernized 21st is capable of fighting the F-16, as the battle between Indians and Pakistanis showed.

[parma]

Quote: fiberboard

I liked the second part of the comment. But comparing the T-62 with the An-2 is hardly correct. Rather, with the MiG-21, and the modernized 21st is capable of fighting the F-16, as the battle between Indians and Pakistanis showed.

Comparison of the AN-2 and F-16 is just to the point, you see, on any aircraft after the appropriate modernization, you can install any aviation means of destruction and protection, which the Indian MiG-21 itself demonstrates (there is not all of the fuselage left from the MiG-21, I’m silent about the giblets) ... but the T-62 gun cannot be replaced (or rather, perhaps it’s easier to build a new tank), the battle cannot be radically changed either ... and contact-5 will not change this, it was outdated by the beginning of the 00s ...

[bayard]

Quote: parma

(there is not all of the fuselage left from the MiG-21, I am silent about the offal

The Indians have the latest modification of the MiG-21 "Bizon" with the "Spear" and R-27 radars. The engine from the MiG-29 is worth it. In all respects, against the early F-16s, it pulls quite well. And in terms of thrust-to-weight ratio too.

Quote: parma

but the T-62 gun cannot be replaced

Why change it, for it there are shells in the warehouses of a breakthrough, and they are unitary. than 115 mm. the T-62M gun will give way to the NATO 105 mm. ?
Nothing! But in many ways it will surpass. Incl. by high-explosive impact.
Or the difference in caliber 115 mm is so great. he has 120 mm. NATO? And if not on the forehead, then on board he will take any of the NATO tanks at once.
Or 100 mm. Is the BMP-3 gun better than the Molot?
Or is the armor of the BMP-3 thicker / stronger ??
Or will it get worse if T-62Ms appear instead of the Rapier?

Quote: parma

and pin-5 won't change that

Change . If it is right on Ilyich's eyebrows, then how else will it change.
Recently, there has been a shortage of shells on the front end, and in the warehouses there are a lot of 115 mm. shells for the T-62. Don't you think that it was worth returning these tanks to service just for the sake of it?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: ROSS 42

Lived up. Shame! For more than thirty years they have been hanging noodles on their ears. Instead of the EBN-center, a new plant had to be built in order to produce the best tanks in the world. Dust in the eyes at the parade will be let in and sleep peacefully ...

Who would argue, but I will not. Everything is correct. Criticism is good, of course. To do what?
Under the current conditions, when the production of T-90M is not enough from the needs, the upgraded T-62MV will be very useful.
Here you need to understand a simple thing - the T-62MV does not go instead of the T-72B3 and T-90M, but in addition. And I doubt that the command will use these machines in the first line.
Although I understand that war has its own laws. Therefore, everything is possible.

[nils]

Quote: ROSS 42

Lived up. Shame! For more than thirty years they have been hanging noodles on their ears. .... Dust in the eyes at the parade will be let in and sleep peacefully ...
Wake up!!! There is no one in the country to give birth!!!

Exactly! The worst thing is that all this is done not out of stupidity, but purposefully, clearly and competently! It would be time for many to leave their illusions and throw off their rose-colored glasses.
Maybe someone will name people who have power, money, and who care for Russia? Who are these statesmen patriots (who accidentally slipped through the sieve of selection of scoundrels)? Be kind, open them to those who do not understand.

[Irokez]

Quote: nils

Kindly open them

For what? To impose sanctions on them from behind a hillock? Or did they spread rot on their Russophobes?
There are such and no one will give them to you, because this betrayal will be in relation to Russia.

[Stas157]

. K T-62 hardly applicable epithets in the style of "modern" or "meeting all the requirements", even if it is modernized a hundred times.

Come on! Our hats really like this tank. They don’t need Armata - they say it’s redundant, but the T-62 is just right! And nothing that the hostages of insufficient security are no longer three, but four people who serve the cannon from the BMP. This does not bother them from the word at all - they are glad to see any junk that is armored better than an infantry fighting vehicle on the battlefield.

PS By the way, the T-34 of the latest modifications also fits these criteria!

[Klaus8691]

But we can carry out tank biathlons and various air darts ... We have no analogues, it turns out, so much so that soon we will begin to remove equipment from the pedestals. The thought arises, maybe we are not using armored vehicles correctly? Maybe you need to change tactics and strategy?

[donavi49]

No - 34 matches will end in just a month. Here is the T-54/55 - those will last another three years. Yes, and the supply of shells for them is impressive, they are not particularly touched, because the caliber is dead.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: donavi49

Here is the T-54/55 - those are enough for another three years

But did they stay? They were all cut.

[Ulan.1812]

Quote: Stas157

. K T-62 hardly applicable epithets in the style of "modern" or "meeting all the requirements", even if it is modernized a hundred times.

Come on! Our hats really like this tank. They don’t need Armata - they say it’s redundant, but the T-62 is just right! And nothing that the hostages of insufficient security are no longer three, but four people who serve the cannon from the BMP. This does not bother them from the word at all - they are glad to see any junk that is armored better than an infantry fighting vehicle on the battlefield.

PS By the way, the T-34 of the latest modifications also fits these criteria!

On the T-62 a cannon from an infantry fighting vehicle?
Cool, but the guys don't know.
Why write such comments, just to play pranks and show off?

[bayard]

Quote: Stas157

They don’t need Armata - they say it’s redundant,

Its redundancy is only in price, complexity and novelty. In all other respects, it is insufficient. Only good as a concept.

Quote: Stas157

but the T-62 is just right!

In war, it is always much better when you have a tank than when you don’t and never will. Moreover (in the same war) there are never many tanks.

Quote: Stas157

And nothing that the hostages of insufficient security are no longer three, but four people

But the tank will not lose combat capability due to a breakdown of the automatic loader.

Quote: Stas157

four people who serve the cannon from the "BMP"

And where did you, young man, see an infantry fighting vehicle with a high ballistics gun of 115 mm caliber. ? Open the secret.
And how much is it 115 mm. the gun is inferior to 120 mm. a NATO weapon, especially with its high-explosive fragmentation projectile?
And is the BMP-3 really better at supporting infantry in defense and offensive than the T-62MV? If you really think so, then justify, respect the old man.

Quote: Stas157

any junk that is armored better than an infantry fighting vehicle, they are happy to see on the battlefield.

And that's true. It’s better than the T-55 with the BMPT module (from the BMPT-72, which was also planned for the 55th) than the BMP-2 during the assault on the city ... yes, in any case.
And even simply - the T-55 can be much more useful than the BMP-1 or 2.

Quote: Stas157

By the way, the T-34 of the latest modifications also fits these criteria!

Do you have an extra thousand or two T-90M and T-14 in your garage?
You already share, since you are so rich and fastidious.
The fact that the heroes of parades and biathlons have updated the Army by 70+% with the most modern and new weapons, no one will dare to doubt in our country.
But at the same time, tanks in a belligerent army must be, be in sufficient quantity and acceptable quality. T-62MV quality is acceptable. And it is cheaper and faster to return them to service from storage bases.
But the T-72 and T-80 return to service longer and more expensive. And at other repair plants.
If the heads of the Defense Ministry knew that they would be put in the T-62M as a reward, along with their daughter, granddaughter and bug, and sent to the LBS, then they would probably treat their official duties somewhat more responsibly and purposefully.
But we are DIFFERENT.
I really hope so far. And that the awards will find their "heroes".

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: bayard

Do you have an extra thousand or two T-90M and T-14 in your garage?

Since 2014, Russia has lit up with the unprecedented and unsurpassed cost of the Olympics and the Mundial, the cost of which could fully equip the entire army with the latest tanks. And build an aircraft carrier to the heap.
And today the trouble is that people who spend the country's money on expensive show-offs are now sending junk to the front, only for the reason that there are not enough shells and new equipment.

[bayard]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Since 2014, Russia has lit up with the unprecedented and unsurpassed cost of the Olympics and the Mundial

For the sake of honesty, both the Olympics and the Mundial were planned and agreed before 24.02.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX. and even more so before the start of the fighting in the Donbass.
And the sums were spent there... fantastic.
But.
Firstly, the main part of the funds was taken from those "reserve funds" that the IMF imposed on us and which we did not have the right to use for our own development. But there was a reservation - for investments abroad and international projects - you can. So we have a series of Olympics, Spartakiads, Universiades, Championships ... and each time everything is in different cities and regions of the country. At the same time, not only new sports facilities were built, but also civilian infrastructure was updated and built from scratch - stations, airports, hotels, polished in our cities, parks and walking areas were created ... and the money was taken mainly from those same " reserve funds" where, at the behest of the IMF and the World Bank, all the "extra money" from the export of Russian oil and gas went.
So you have to be very careful about those expenses.
And a number of by no means evil (and possibly even good) languages ​​\u2017b\uXNUMXbclaimed that a fair / lion's share of the same "stolen" from the construction of the Olympics, etc., funds ... went to those very closed (secret) programs of new weapons that are so surprised former partners, and continue to surprise since XNUMX. And this despite the budget of the Russian Federation and all its expenditure items, transparent as a tear of a child. it was just that the funding was extrabudgetary ... and perhaps partially for cash.

Quote: Ingvar 72

for the cost of which it was possible to fully equip the entire army with the latest tanks. And build an aircraft carrier to the heap.

And more than one aircraft carrier could (in terms of money, but not in terms of technical capabilities), and re-equip the Army. And have reconnaissance and target designation means in excess quantities, and build at least a few hundred "Terminators" (and not one or two dozen as it was) ... And here there are already questions directly to the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff. After all, no one was preparing for war there - "who dares to fight against a nuclear superpower ??" ... but it turned out that how else would he dare ... with our hands ... yes, practically with our own hands, because Russians can hardly be distinguished either there or here (except for Galicia). As a result, the Russians are at war with the Russians, destroying their own territory and infrastructure, losses (cumulative) have already exceeded one million (according to the Mossad and a number of other sources) only in the former Ukraine ...
The Kremlin turned out to be a slave to its own mantra about the "SMALL, compact, but well-trained and armed" Army it coveted.
And the Little Army turned out to be capable of only ... yes, what would it be capable of in February-March, if not for the hastily mobilized corps of the republics of Donbass. HURRY, and not planned and mobilized ahead of time ... often with three-rulers !!!
Because the army can be considered anything modern, fashionable and powerful, but if it does not have SOLDIERS and a sufficient number of trained officers ... this is an army for Parades and Biathlons. But not for war.
When the number of Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in its ENTIRE totality was ... 280 thousand people !!! With all the clerks, psars and other non-combatants ... for our entire Endless Motherland ...
Who is to blame?
Capitalism. With all domestic savagery. When they think about money and only about their own profit.
Moreover, in the Towers it turned out that they think even worse than in ordinary businesses. They never neglect their own safety.
And they saved everything. Moreover, the capitalists in uniform did not offend themselves at all. About that and the empty mobilization warehouses of the RF Ministry of Defense are witnesses.
But try to blame for it . When success is measured solely in money, and not in achievements in official fields ... When this is not only forgiven, but also encouraged and welcomed ... this is not the fault of any particular official ... It's like with the case of that plumber - replacing gaskets don't get off.
It's time to change the system - to a more efficient one.
And preferably on the initiative from the top.

Quote: Ingvar 72

today they send old ones to the front, only for the reason that there are not enough shells and new equipment.

How much of that equipment was needed for a LITTLE army?
For 280 thousand SV, 50 thousand Airborne Forces and 20 thousand MPs of the Navy?
And now the Army needed a size corresponding to the needs and threats, and weapons for it, and command personnel whom no one trained, and to establish the production of ammunition, because the consumption of these is prohibitive, and considerable losses have been incurred over the past year of fighting (in the same technique) .
The towers are getting used to living in a new reality. Military reality in the context of global confrontations. And if the "Logic" toggle switch is turned on, then everything will work out, because Russia has everything. That's just the leadership must meet the demands of the time.

Quote: Ingvar 72

not enough shells and new equipment

And at the same time, many metallurgical companies have lost their markets in Western (and not only) countries. So what's the question?

[Alex777]

Hello colleague!
Unsubscribed in a personal.
Your impression is interesting.

[Li17]

I'm not a tanker, in principle, a couple of these to protect the communications center would be fine. But here's the most important thing, and where to get trained crews (I pay attention to the plural)! The crew has been preparing for more than a month, as I understand it! As far as I know, there are not enough tank officers either, the Internet gives out 3-4 establishments. Considering that for further commissioning, it would be necessary to bring the gentlemen of the officers to their senses in the troops in order to become comrades ...!

[Klaus8691]

And there are few schools, and most likely there are not very many who want to enter these schools, especially at this time.

[2 Level Advisor]

let's remember - in general, the purpose of the tank is "Designed to conduct combat operations in direct contact with the enemy, support motorized rifle units in breaking through defenses and developing tactical success into operational"
there are no tasks for tanks in the rear as intended .. well, that’s all .. the communication center is not at the forefront .. but at least 25 km from the LBS and if tanks are needed there for defense, there was a breakthrough of the front line and obviously not only by infantry, but with the participation of modern tanks and anti-aircraft weapons .. and how will a pair of t-62s help here much? and rather, what is the difference between the battle on the LBS and the battle on the LBS, which is already with the US? therefore - they are not for the rear, they are not needed there .. in the rear they are almost useless .. except perhaps as a bunker opornik to strengthen

[Dante Alighieri]

there are no tasks for tanks in the rear as intended .. well, no, that's all ..

Nikolai, I’ve been talking about this for more than a month now, but for some reason people refuse to accept one simple truth: if there is a tank, it will be used precisely as a tank, especially if there is a choice of what to put under fire - some armored personnel carrier stitched through even a machine-gun burst, or even such an obsolete but still strong armored fighting vehicle like the T-62. Therefore, there is no need to dissemble about the fact that they say the T-62s are intended solely for saturating second-echelon or Russian Guard units with equipment, and therefore their direct participation in combat clashes with the enemy is not expected. This is a war, anything can happen.

As for the modernization itself.

It is frustrating that, in the best tradition of recent years, the new thermal imaging sight is covered with a protective shutter bolted to the body. How the gunner is invited to use it in the event of a sudden appearance of the enemy is absolutely not clear. The only thing that remains is to spit on the threat of damaging the lens on the march or from an accidental fragment and leave the sight open, as, for example, the crews of the T-72B3 tanks of the 2011 model do, who simply fix this cover to the edge with two bolts.

As for the conventional optical means of observation, as I understand it, they remain without any changes at all. Why is it impossible to install the same 1A40 sight of the TPD-K1 complex installed on the same T-64s in storage instead of them, since the decision was made not to operate the latter at all? Yes, you will have to weld the articulated sight window and do something new for the 1A40, but then the gunner will have a more convenient and perfect sight that is not related to the gun itself. Is it worth the effort? I think it’s worth it, all the more so because, I remind you, the sight itself will cost the treasury 0 rubles. 00 kop.

Next is the sight of the commander. Everything here is sad. TKN-3 is our everything and everywhere. In general, one gets the feeling that the lion's share of the modernization budget fell on the gunner's thermal imager 1PN96MT-02, and everything else was done according to the residual principle. As a result, as on the T-72B3 at sixty-two, after the upgrade, an imbalance remained between the role of the gunner and the commander, who, in fact, had only one thing left - to perform the function of a full-time radio operator, because he simply does not have more or less acceptable means of observation. Why not supply the gunner with the night sight PN 72K-1-13, which was dismantled during the modernization of the 49, which is part of the KUV 9K120 Svir (the cost of which is again zero), and the released funds should not be used to purchase TKN-3TP for the tank commander, as well as strengthening the tower with DZ blocks and replacing the V-55 engine with a V-46 or V-84 from the same 72-ki is a great mystery. As a result, we would have got a completely compromised version, more reminiscent of the T-72 at the minimum, but in comparison with the T-62M, it would still be a big leap forward.

In general, our approach to the modernization of old tanks is, to put it mildly, strange. On a much fresher and more powerful eighty, even compared to the T-72, we put the same uncooled thermal imager as on the T-62, which, according to propaganda, is not intended for combat at all, while the more advanced Sosna-U goes not only on the new T-90MS, but also on the upgraded T-72B3. Why not leave Sosna to the breakthrough tanks of the T-90 and T-80 family; a complex from a 1PN96MT-02 thermal imager, a 1G42 / 1G46 sight, as well as a commander’s sight TKN-4S-01 - to T-72B3 tanks, and the entire internal stuffing of the T-72B simply cannot be transplanted into the T-62M - most likely again it will remain unanswered .. .

[Adrey]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

let's remember - in general, the purpose of the tank is "Designed to conduct combat operations in direct contact with the enemy, support motorized rifle units in breaking through defenses and developing tactical success into operational"
there are no tasks for tanks in the rear as intended

Totally agree with you.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

therefore - they are not for the rear, they are not needed there .. in the rear they are almost useless .. except perhaps as a bunker opornik to strengthen

If a bunker of such a level was required on the prop, and even more so, it worked, then this is no longer the rear

[donavi49]

Ordinary 62s meant they fought on the front, went on counterattacks, formed rearguard groups. Modernized in the rear will not linger. They will reconstruct the battles of the ATS of the NATO forces against Leo1A5 - they are just +/-, both with thermal imagers, both are deeply modernized.

[AlexWar]

For many years, not a ruble was invested in the military industry, what we have is what we have. It was possible to solve the issue by replacing it with a new tower, but apparently there is no money. In theory, it was possible to install towers with refinement from the T-72.
In order for the army to be powerful and strong, it was necessary to invest in it. But these funds almost did not go. And even the T-62s in the Nz warehouses turned out to be not working.
Well, in my opinion, it is important in general to put all NZ in order, what is in storage.

[Mikhail Krivopalov]

Yes, money was allocated normally, the question is the effectiveness of their use

[Andrew A.]

What questions can there be about the effectiveness of their use in the presence of military missions at enterprises and the most effective management system - private property?

[moscowp]

Private property in the defense industry - who is this? Rostec maybe? Uralvagonzavod? Private property is trying to keep the defense order at a distance of a cannon shot, and in the light of recent legislative changes it will keep at a distance of a caliber flight. If only this private property is not someone who needs private property.

[Andrew A.]

Do we have many FGUPs left?
Therefore, this is exactly who needs private property.

[1 z1]

Well, if you collect it all over the country, then the T-34-85 regiment will be typed. Only there is no factory for their repair. And for good, put all the "plywood heroes" in 34 fours and send Ugledar to storm. And the slogan for each tank - Grandfathers won and we will win.

[Volunteer Marek]

A bitter residue remains. We are slowly sawing the legacy of the USSR. Of course, not Trishkin's caftan, but ... And when will it end? If nothing new, in terms of design offices, training, factories, etc. etc., if not, then how will we defend the Motherland when everything is over? We, in contrast to the enemies united by one idea, no one will help us. Only themselves.

[Irokez]

Quote: Volunteer Marek

If nothing new, in terms of design offices, training, factories, etc. etc., if not, then how will we defend the Motherland when everything is over?

Are you saying that nothing is being done?
When everything is over, the factories will not stop immediately and will rivet the T-72, T-90 and Armata for some time to fill the troops and warehouses in case of another war, and what remains of the old USSR will also go to the warehouses (suddenly again will be needed). Therefore, do not worry, the cards will grow up and continue the work of their fathers and grandfathers, time has shown that we need to protect ourselves and keep the world in good shape.

[75 Sergey]

And why not install at least a few anti-tank missiles on the tower, like Bradley?

[Passer]

Interesting. We are waiting for the modernized T-26.

[AlexisT]

How to use this tank. If as a nomadic artillery mount, as tanks are mainly used now, then this is the very hayfield. And if in a bare field against fresher tanks, this, of course, is not bubble gum.

[Andrey Andreev]

The army existed for parades and show. Very sad. Tags, tank biathlons, photo reports, paper generals.

[Joker62]

Quote: ROSS 42

Quote: Joker62

Upgrading the T-62 tank to the T-62MV is a very necessary thing.

This is when the “birdless” and the ass is a nightingale!
If everything is so correct and prudent, why are some civilians (military too) interested in the armor of "Abrams" and other "Members"?
Tell us, will 100 An-2s be able to fight with a dozen F-16s?
When the matter is taken seriously, they do not engage in biathlons in the absence of the tanks themselves and do not conduct "air darts" due to the absence of the aircraft themselves.
The design school of the Soviet era has long since died out. The boys remained, who managed to pick up the "tops", mastered the general look ... but in life something else is required:

* * *
With this approach, some may find conditions for the modernization of the T-34 ...
I suppose you also consider a “motorcycle league” with a module attached to the stern to be the height of perfection and the fruit of genius?
I see something else. The elementary lack of state thinking, the ability to single out priority tasks, the blathering of emerging problems in the development of the defense industry.
Let not entirely successful, let the archaic Soviet production could be rebuilt and give the country what it needs. They didn’t fight on armored cars, although there was a place for cavalry in WWII ...
Lived up. Shame! For more than thirty years they have been hanging noodles on their ears. Instead of the EBN-center, a new plant had to be built in order to produce the best tanks in the world. Dust in the eyes at the parade will be let in and sleep peacefully ...
Wake up!!! There is no one in the country to give birth!!!

Everything you criticize is partly true. BUT!
Can you yourself propose more radically, without affecting, say, the construction of new and modern equipment, not to mention tanks?
This is the first.
Second. "Where's the money, Zin?!"
Third. With personnel, yes, it's just a disaster, in all branches of the defense industry. There are old shots that still remember the Soviet school. About today's youth, I just keep quiet. They need to be taught all over again, but according to the Soviet system, and not according to the shameful Bologna education system!
Fourth. What to do with only built old cars, which, oddly enough, they are still on the move and on conservation ??? For meltdown?? Is that reasonable for you??? Or look at the second point, there will immediately disappear the desire to send in metal.
Fifth. No matter how they shouted and shouted that the Soviet design school had died out in the bud, I will tell you one thing, it is alive, and gives odds to many modern advanced "designers" according to the Bologna systems. It is only necessary to equip modern software and computer equipment for the old school, and will continue to promote their developments, which have not yet been dreamed of by both the "Westerners" and so the mattresses.
And the sixth, about the fact that there is no one to give birth - are you very worried ??? Or half does not give you what the man demands??
You will deal with this first of all, and only then, shout at your village.
I have the honor!

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Joker62

shameful Bologna system of education!

many raids on this system .. but is it the main problem? I talked with several teachers I knew - we have not yet developed a normal basis for the "Bologna system"; the same teachers teach, in the same way, from the same textbooks - like the "Soviet" specialty .. is it the name? Or is it still in how they teach, who teaches and how motivated and willing to learn are the students themselves? I have no doubt that a student who is thirsty for knowledge - and according to the "Bologna" system - will become a specialist in the "specialist" ... the problem is not in the system, you have to look at the root - the problem is in the quality of education itself and misunderstanding by most students - why should they this (if there is an opportunity to "solve the session") - if the majority will not work in the specialty - and they know it .. that the diploma is "for a resume" ... oh, in a non-"Bologna system", the problem, people .. we will return the specialty completely - nothing will change in fact, except for the name ... when a student studies, if he knows exactly what he wants and will be a metallurgist, let's say he will try to study (especially knowing that you won’t close the session except with knowledge), but if " for a diploma" at least call it a "Bologna specialty" ..

[Ady66]

One such "technologist" in the technological map indicated instead of the surface treatment class: "Clean to a noble shine." The elderly turner went nuts.

[1 z1]

Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. You better not say.

[Zaurbek]

The Turks make great use of the upgraded M60 ... 115mm guns are enough "for the eyes" for everything. Moreover, Leo-1s are massively supplied to the Reich. And AMX-10. Protection - and thermal imagers and communications .. that's where you need to click. Everything has been tested on the T72B3.

[Rabioso]

My tank had dynamic protection. We called it chocolate. Well, as many already know, I served on the American M-60. So I assure you that this dynamic protection was already hopelessly outdated even then (25 years ago). And it doesn't matter what kind of contact it is or something. And so that the projectile and anti-tank systems hit it directly and not between the mounts, this is still good luck. But still, modern ammunition does not even notice this good. So it's better not to use this topic. Aiming is another matter. In Ukraine, there are no open spaces, as we say in Israel, where tank duels are possible at distances up to 7 km. Therefore, they will most likely come down quite well. And the T62 tanks on the battlefield without Kaz to release this people to ruin

[steelmaker]

T-62 (Index GBTU - Object 166) is a Soviet medium and main battle tank of the first post-war generation.

Created on the basis of the T-55 tank. Produced in the USSR from 1962 to 1975. The world's first mass-produced tank with a smooth-bore gun and the mass of a medium tank with a high level of armor. On August 12, 1961, the tank was put into service. Serial production of the T-62 was carried out in the USSR from 1962 to 1973 with the release of about 20000 units. The tank has been supplied abroad since the early 1970s."https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2-62
Putin parasitizes on "Soviet galoshes", and even has enough conscience to harass the leaders and the economy of the USSR. What would they fight now if it were not for these "galoshes"? Ignorant!!!!

[ZhEK-Vodogrey]

Quote: steel maker

Putin parasitizes on "Soviet galoshes", and even has enough conscience to harass the leaders and the economy of the USSR. What would they fight now if it were not for these "galoshes"?

And you remember the symbols of prosperity in the USSR. GDR wall, wallpaper and paint, Czech crystal, Yugoslav or Hungarian shoes and clothes. Do not forget that in the USSR they did not buy good things - they got them out of the blue.

[ycuce234-san]

Quote: ZhEK-Vodogrey

Do not forget that in the USSR they did not buy good things - they got them out of the blue.

First, before they are sold "under the floor", these things must be imported into the economy from the outside - and this was possible only in exchange for the sale of something. In this case, the USSR sold the products of heavy machinery, atommash, raw materials, chemicals, weapons that were in demand - and only in exchange for them these products of light industry, agriculture, etc. appeared, and nothing else, and they were to a large extent processed Soviet raw materials. And the Chinese, while the workshop and the store of the world, did not exist; and in the early post-war years there was no high-tech European auto-ship aviation industry either - a banal river barge at that time could not be bought at shipyards in dilapidated Europe, and the Americans would not have sold it.

[steelmaker]

"And you remember the symbols of prosperity in the USSR."
Another ignoramus. It used to be Soviet, now Chinese. And what is your joy now?

[Master 2030]

Commercials and the good old t-34 will return to service. Moreover, samples of 1940

[K298rtm]

In my humble opinion, if everything goes according to plan, it will soon have to be removed from the T-34 pedestals for modernization.

[Romeo]

Quite fit for the destruction of Bradley infantry fighting vehicles and French wheeled tanks

[2 Level Advisor]

so the t-54 will fit for this .. maybe then them first, but we’ll save the t-62, newer, all the same machine .. (sarcasm)

[t7310]

54-55 has a rifled barrel, the barrel resource is less, 54-55 is therefore more expensive than smooth-bore 62, well, 34 could go somewhere for an armored personnel carrier if she came up with tasks

[Odessa2023]

Something is better than nothing. And for the confrontation with Leopard1, its capabilities are enough. Moreover, everything does not come down to a battle tank against a tank.

[Mint Gingerbread]

They would try to develop some new, heavy-duty alloys, and hang them along with dynamic protection.

[Alexey Kazakov]

It seems to me that the author should use less ranting and more statistics, not assumptions.

[Sergei N 58912062]

When it seems necessary to be baptized.
__________________________________

[Blackgrifon]

Still, the best thing that can be done with the T-62 is to convert it into a BMPT. But due to the limited time for parts of the second line, it will go in this form.

[1 z1]

Somewhere the most professional "constructor of strategists and tactics" have gone. Two years ago, everything would have been full of "tanks don't fight tanks." Very, very suspicious.

[Vladoslove]

As for me, many find fault with 62-ku in vain, people fight on: BMP 1-3, armored personnel carriers on motorized leagues with fixed ship guns, etc. In terms of protection and firepower, they are even inferior to the non-updated version of the tank, and now they hardly fight tank against tank. They shoot out from closed and open positions on fortifications and equipment, in fact they work like artillery. With new "eyes" and an engine, it's quite a machine for the tasks that tanks perform today.

[blackGRAIL]

If we consider the T-62 not as an MBT, but as an armored combat vehicle (AFV), which in fact it is in today's realities, then there is nothing special to criticize it for. Moreover, with modern FCS / thermal imagers, it becomes one of the best modern AFVs. The main thing is that the command would not seek to use it as a tank.

[squid]

gentlemen, but no one thinks why more and more thousands of tanks are needed at all? maybe just a normal all-angle KAZ, like a trophy and others, to do? how much can you rivet expensive armored vehicles that any homeless person with a bird can endure?

[Vladoslove]

As for me, the fact is that our KAZ is ineffective and cannot yet compete with foreign counterparts. Otherwise, they would bet on breakthroughs for anyone, if the probability is conditionally less than 25-30% on reflection ... then there is no point in betting it, only to spoil the image of the military-industrial complex - perhaps this is what our top thinks about. Well, as for me, Trophy, etc. more publicized, it is interesting to see in real combat conditions how effective they really are.

[acetophenone]

Quote: insafufa

T-62 is essentially like a mobile self-propelled gun

A mobile self-propelled gun is "five"!

[B44]

I don’t know how this technique will behave at the front (I hope it doesn’t work at the front line, but protects soldiers in the rear), I know for sure that the May 9 parade will be unforgettable if we put all these “front-line monsters” with welded ship towers. NATO will freeze and be silent. Out of distrust.

[Muzzle]

A new sight is great, but 1 year has already passed, and things are there now. It is always interesting to look at modernization. Any tank in capable hands and leadership is a force to be reckoned with by the enemy. And old or new is not the point. I'm wondering why the experience of the NWO paid with the blood of tankers is not taken into account. Until now, where our tankers are attacking the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the enemy has ATGMs hitting from above and electronic warfare from drones with hooks does not work, the Russian army suffers losses. It is especially sad to see the destroyed T-72B3 and T-80bvm. A couple of boxes on top and that's all protection ??? It can be seen that they abandoned the visors and rivet tanks tirelessly, but the cost of a rocket and a tank is not comparable, and lives are generally priceless. In general, there is an axiom that a person's life in war is equal to the cost of material resources spent to take it away. They killed the sentry with a knife, which means that his life is equal to nothing more than the cost of a knife. etc. The strength of the ATGM will not be stopped by the contact box -1 or K -5, alas, this is proved by blood. Is it really impossible to weld on separate rods puff like Brezhnev's Eyebrows from the center of the tower protection ??

[Batting]

I carefully read the comments of the gentlemen of the military experts. What to say? I have various objections and reproaches, an old amateur with soviet roots and a cotton-wool formation.
There is no doubt about the usefulness of the T-62. Repaired, re-armored, modernized vehicles will do their job with a competent and creative approach of commanders and crews to their use. And what right away - to strengthen the roadblocks. On the blocks and when guarding the rear, not the most modern infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers are what the doctor ordered, if the personnel do not click on the food receiver. Chasing saboteurs and banderlogs with a tank gun is too much. A tank is a weapon of the battlefield, and if you plan the composition of the attacking armored group correctly: a sting from a couple of Breakthroughs, a second line of a couple of sixty-twos with the participation of infantry fighting vehicles, and a shilka - Tunguska-cuirass to look after the air, then javelins and RPG opornik will not save, such a company will eat it at once. Options are possible.
As for the military-industrial complex, for thirty years the country has been owned by the owners of factories chosen during Boriska's time - steamboat newspapers, whose candidacies were approved by Boriska's advisers from the CIA. It is surprising that something remains, including in warehouses. Businessmen of all levels did not have time to commune, too much of the Union was left.
And as for the tank biathlon and army games, you are grinning in vain, good gentlemen. To force modern soldiers to engage in combat training in the absence of patriotism and the monetization of Russian reality, a marketing ploy was needed. Shoigu found him, it became fun for overgrown undergrowths to participate in championships in military sports. Although the tanks learned to drive, shoot, they played scouts, infantrymen, and sailors. Thank God, not with one office plankton, songstresses and dancers came to the third world.

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

There is no sense in the old tanks, the t-62s will work mainly with land mines and cumulatives, because the main targets are field (and city) fortifications, as well as enemy light equipment ...
In principle, for something light like Bradley or Leo1, they can shoot with a crowbar, but IMHO the cumulative will be more interesting.

[costa_2]

The tank is over 60 years old. They didn't even know about mobile phones back then...

[Sergey Vasiliev_5]

You can’t let them into battle against modern tanks. Their place is at checkpoints, in company strongholds. Means of reinforcement for the infantry no more. And as an ersatzSAU.

[tank64rus]

They do what they can with what they have. And as for the combat effectiveness in terms of the power of the OFS ammunition for a target of 115mm and 125mm, the difference is not very big. Well, if the same Leopard rolls on board. Rather, now the T-62m with these alterations will be at the level of the T-34-76 of the Second World War. But these tanks fought, although there were already T-34-85 and IS-2. And they are now standing on pedestals in Berlin.

[vova1973]

Leopards 2 will be taken out from helicopters.

[dump22]

To sum it up, it's much better than it used to be.

In my opinion, the approach to using tanks should be the same:
The value of the life of the tank crew is many times higher than the value of the piece of iron itself.

From this point of view, any modernization of the T-62 should be considered first of all.

[vova1973]

Bradley and Marders will endure, all the armor is more than on the BMP-3. Still need to find a place where more than 2 km of flat terrain.

[Tim666]

Quote: ZhEK-Vodogrey

Quote from Uncle Lee

And how to characterize the adequacy of Serdyukov's actions?

To the activities of Serdyukov and the real state of the Russian army by 2008, there is a lot of bias. Thanks to Serdyukov, a truly massive T-72B3 tank with a thermal imager appeared in the army. Serdyukov's strong-willed decision to abandon purchases of the T-90 and begin mass modernization of the T-72B justified itself, since the T-90 UVZ requested 118 million (raising the price by 70% in a year). And the T-72B3 cost 52 million. And it must be compared with the basis of our armored vehicles for 2010 - the T-72A and B, produced in the USSR and pretty worn out since then. It was necessary to replace about 2000 vehicles of the first line as soon as possible, otherwise the armored personnel carriers would simply die out, reduced to a couple of court divisions.
As for the T-62, the Russian Federation has a total of about 900 T-62 tanks, of which 150, according to the end of 2011, were in the army. In Transbaikalia, 800 units will be modernized. The decision was justified, since the T-62M tanks that got to the SVO directly from storage were often abandoned by the crews due to technical malfunctions.

So it’s not even M, there’s no DZ, sending them into battle with ancient surveillance devices during the reign of ATGMs is a gesture.

[Tim666]

Quote: Vladoslove

As for me, the fact is that our KAZ is ineffective and cannot yet compete with foreign counterparts. Otherwise, they would bet on breakthroughs for anyone, if the probability is conditionally less than 25-30% on reflection ... then there is no point in betting it, only to spoil the image of the military-industrial complex - perhaps this is what our top thinks about. Well, as for me, Trophy, etc. more publicized, it is interesting to see in real combat conditions how effective they really are.

Just after the Merkavas with the Trophy showed themselves perfectly in battles, they decided to put them on the Abrams.

[Kostadinov]

Quote: 1z1

Somewhere the most professional "constructor of strategists and tactics" have gone. Two years ago, everything would have been full of "tanks don't fight tanks." Very, very suspicious.

Myi here and in the NWO has confirmed again and again what is well known since the Second World War. Namely, that turning a tank into an anti-tank weapon is an irreparable mistake, and it cost the Wehrmacht dearly, and that tanks fight tanks only when the command is bad.
My suggestion is to use the T-55 in the SVO only with the refinement of the SLA. Unless, of course, tanks and their ammunition were destroyed by professional ideologists of tank fights, tournaments, biathlons and the like.

[Thrush]

There is one more nuance - this is the shelf life of shells for 115mm tank guns. Tanks were finished almost 50 years ago (1975). After 20-25 years, irreversible chemical reactions begin in the powders, which lead to negative consequences - accelerated or vice versa retarded combustion, excessive pressure in the bore, which, accordingly, greatly affects gun wear and accuracy.

[LuidmilaN1956]

Again, as usual, "modernization" by half measures! Was it really impossible to install a DZ on the forehead of the tower ?! After all, there are examples.

[firemann]

It would be more logical to remove the turret and install a BMPT-type module, even with a 57 mm gun

[garik77]

Interestingly, Russia has 2000 T-64A and T-64B in storage as of 2017. What's up with them? Why was it necessary to remove the T-62?

[mixail sherbakov]

So I see how in 1942 the GKO Headquarters discussed the issue not of increasing the production of T-34, KV, but of "modernizing" the BT-7.)))