"Astra" - weapons and firms

73
"Astra" - weapons and firms
Not everyone is so lucky that his name will show off on the pistol grip!


Another glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, another of the stars;
and star differs from star in glory.

First Corinthians 15:41

Weapon and firms. Astra Unceta y Cía was founded on July 17, 1908 in Eibar (the center of the arms industry of the Basque Country) by Juan Esperanza (1860-1951) and Pedro Unceta (1854-1934), but was then called "Esperanza and Unceta". She then moved to Guernica in 1913. At first, the company employed only six employees, but little by little their number began to grow. And then the founders of the company took up arms and from 1911 began to receive patents for new pistols with enviable regularity. In 1913, they finally switched to the production of pistols of their own design.




Pistol "Campo Giro"

And then it happened that in 1912, a new pistol was adopted by the Spanish army, designed by a retired military man, Lieutenant Colonel Don Venancio Lopez de Caballos y Aquirre, Count of Campo Giro. It received the official designation Pistola Campo-Giro de 9 mm Modelo of 1912, but it was usually called the "Campo-Giro" by the name (or rather, the title) of its creator.


Pistol markings on the barrel

It was then that it turned out that there was an improved version of this pistol, developed by Esperanza and Unset, and in January 1914 it was it that was put into service under the name Campo-Giro de 9 mm Modelo 1913. It was supposed to be produced by the developer, which led to the move to a new plant in Guernica due to a sharp increase in order volume. In 1914, 1 pistols were produced, but then their production was stopped in order to release new, improved modifications.


And the star is the emblem of the manufacturer ...

In 1916, the design of the pistol was slightly changed, and it was produced until about 1920. The total production volume was 13 pieces.

Interestingly, before the adoption of the Campo Giro, Spain purchased about 3 Bergman Bayard pistols of the 000 model of the year. Like the Mauser M1908 pistols, the Bergman pistols had a magazine in front of the trigger and therefore had a relatively short barrel, although it fired a powerful bolt-action 1896mm cartridge. The Campo Giro of 9 used the same 1913mm cartridge, commonly known as the 9mm Largo, but the magazine was more traditionally located in the grip and therefore had a much longer barrel and therefore a higher muzzle velocity.

A feature of the Campo Giro was the blowback, with a powerful recoil spring and recoil buffer to compensate for the recoil of the powerful 9mm cartridge. By the way, the first samples of the pistol had handle cheeks made of black buffalo horn, but with the outbreak of the First World War, the supply of this exotic material ceased and they began to be made of wood!


Astra M400. Chilean model

During the First World War, Esperanza i Unceta produced about 150 Ruby-type self-loading pistols for the Allies. It was a pistol based on Browning's M000 design, with some improvements patented by Pedro Careaga in 1903 and by Esperanza y Unceta in 1911. The pistol was named "Victoria", and in turn it was copied by the company "Gabilondo and Urresti" in 1912, installing a new magazine with a capacity of 1914 cartridges on it (the capacity of the old pistol was 9 cartridges) and a cord ring.


This is what it looked like when the shutter moved back

But in 1915, Gabilondo sent this pistol to France, and they liked it there. And so much so that in May 1915 the French military decided to adopt it. The pistol was named Ruby, and contracts for its production were signed with Gabilondo and eight partner companies.

As a result, the order also went to the Esperanza and Unset company, and they began to produce them as M 1914, M 1915, M 1916, under the names Astra, Brunswick and Victoria. In general, such strange things happened in the world of weapons at that distant time. Trademark "Astra" turned out to be the most convenient as a result!


M400 disassembled

But in Spain, complaints went to the Campo Giro pistol that, firstly, it was not as durable as expected, and secondly, that it was very difficult to disassemble it. As a result, the military began searching for new service weapons, and it was then that Esperanza and Unset offered them their newly developed Model 400, which received the beautiful name Astra.


M400 produced by the Republicans. On the cheeks of the handle, the designation: "Spanish Republic"

The "Model 400" was a design by Pedro Careaga. The tests went on for two years - from 1920 to 1921, until finally in September 1921, the Astra 400 was adopted by the Spanish army. Two versions of the pistol were developed: the "model 400" for the army and the carabinieri, and the model 300, a slightly smaller pistol, for naval and air force officers.

As a result, the "Model 300" became a kind of symbol of the company, its popularity was so great. Both models had long careers and remained in production until 1967 and 1946 respectively.


M400 model 1941

The Model 400 was chambered for the 9mm Bergmann-Bayard cartridge, named after the first semi-automatic pistol used by the Spanish army. This caliber was known in Spain as the 9mm Largo (long). During the Spanish Civil War, it turned out that it was easy to convert it to 9mm Parabellum cartridges.

As a result, 63 pistols chambered for Parabellum cartridges were delivered to Germany during the Second World War (another 000 pistols were sent to the Germans chambered for a “long” cartridge. A total of 22s were produced 390 copies.


Pistol "Astra" M200 with mother-of-pearl trim handle

The Spaniards, generally speaking, copied other people's samples very widely. So, for example, the Astra M200 pistol appeared - nothing more than a copy of the FN 1906, which was released in several versions and calibers. A total of 234 pistols of this model were produced. Production ceased in 105, mainly due to new US customs regulations.

In 1926, Juan Esperanza left the joint venture and formed his own company. The company changed its name and became known as Unceta y Compania. And the following year, the Spanish army again decided to modernize its weapons, and Unceta once again won a contract to supply the military with a new pistol, the production of which began a year later.

This time it was the "Model 900", very similar to the famous C96. The pistol was actively supplied to China, where Kuomintang officers simply adored it. Some of these pistols (M903) ended up in Germany, and the Spanish Civil Guard received the F modification. Although mass production of this model ceased in 1937, small batches continued to be assembled later from the remaining stocks.


Astra Model 900 (bottom) and Mauser S-96 (top)

The "Model 900" differed from the "Mauser" C96 only in weight, due to the longer barrel. "Model 901" was made at the request of China - they put a fire translator on it, which made it possible to shoot bursts from it. At the same time, his rate of fire was about 850 rounds per minute. "Model 902" - the same "Model 901", but with a fixed magazine for 20 rounds and a barrel length of 190 mm. Produced about 7 pieces.

"Model 903" - An improved "Model 902", with a removable magazine for 10 or 20 rounds. "Model 904": had changes in the fire switch that allowed varying the rate of fire, but only 10 of them were produced. Model F - "Astra 903", modified in accordance with the requirements of the Civil Guard.


Marking one of the "Aster"

As for the Astra M400 pistol, it turned out to be in demand on the arms market and was supplied not only to Germany, but also to Chile, Colombia, Ecuador and France. 106 units were made, most chambered in 175mm Largo. During the Civil War, the company began to work for the Republicans, but its owner Unset left the company and went over to the side of the Nationalists.


Automatic "Astra", right side view

Part of the M400 pistols was produced at the enterprises of the Republicans, but the plant itself worked for Franco. Moreover, during the Second World War, despite the official neutrality of Spain, deliveries of pistols to Germany began in 1943 (10 copies were sent) and continued until June 450.

It is interesting that although they ceased, this contract did not lose its force and was already finally fulfilled in 1950 and 1951, when the Federal Republic of Germany turned to the Allies with a request for permission to receive the remains of weapons ordered in 1944 for arming the police. This is how Spanish pistols ended up in Germany again, and after the end of the war.


Astra 300. Right side view

In 1946, the company was reorganized so that it began to produce industrial equipment, although they continued to produce firearms. As a result, the Astra 3000 model appeared, put into production a year later.

More than 44 of these pistols were produced, after which in 000 it was replaced by the Astra 1956 Falcon model. And in 4000, the company changed its name again and became known as Astra y Unceta Cia, SA

Then new models were created under the name "Astra": M800 "Condor" (1958), "Astra" A-70, A-80, A-90 and "Astra 100" in the eighties. In general, the Basque arms industry had something to be proud of ...

However, politics intervened in the work of the company: in 1977, its successful manager and owner of the company, Augusto Unceta-Barrenechea, was killed by terrorists from the ETA group.


Astra 300. Left side view

In 1998, the Basque government decided to create a new company by merging Astra Unceta y Cia and the bankrupt enterprise of Bonifacio Echeverria S.A. This new company was also called Astra, but it lasted only one year. After that, a certain Swiss company took the name, received the rights to the Astra trademark and also began to produce pistols, as well as AR-15 rifles of the StG-15 and StG-4 models.

And it all ended with the fact that weapons under the Astra brand were again sold in Central and South America, as well as in Asia and Africa.


"Astra-Fareket", caliber 6,35 mm

The Astra 300 pistol is a Spanish Astra-Unceta self-loading pistol, a smaller version of the Astra 400 model. army. Magazine capacity, depending on the model, is 1922 rounds of 1922 × 1923 mm or 1928 rounds of 1930 × 7 mm. "Astra 7,65" - the first model, produced from 17 to 6, a total of 9 units were produced. "Astra 17" - a post-war modification of the "Astra-300", in total from 1922 to 1947 about 171 units were produced.


7,65-mm pistol "Astra" model 300 "lux", presented by the People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR K. E. Voroshilov to the son of M. V. Frunze - Timur Frunze

In 1937–1938 The USSR purchased a small number of Astra 300 pistols from the Spanish Republic. Richly trimmed, they were used as awards. In particular, the People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR K. E. Voroshilov handed over the M300 of the luxury model to the Soviet military pilots - the son of I. V. Stalin - Vasily Stalin; son of M. V. Frunze - Timur Frunze; son of A.I. Mikoyan - Sergey Mikoyan. Larger weapons, with significant "representative" dimensions, such as the 7,63-mm Astra pistols of models 901-903, were handed over either to military leaders or to the highest commanding staff from the NKVD itself.


Decorated Astra pistol received by Lieutenant General Otto Yliriscu as a gift from the Soviet Union. Immola Border Guard Museum in Imatra, Finland

PS


The author and site administration would like to thank Alain Daubresse for permission to use his photographs.
73 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +6
    15 March 2023 04: 16
    Pistola Campo-Giro de 9 mm Modelo of 1912, but it was usually called "Campo-Giro" by the name (or rather, the title) of its creator.
    Spanish is not English for you, so Campo Giro...
    1. -3
      15 March 2023 06: 43
      Google translator, when installed into Spanish, translates as follows: Campo Giro 9-mm pistol, model 1912.
      1. +5
        15 March 2023 07: 19
        He can already translate: "9-mm field gyro pistol of the 1912 model", but the fact is that surnames (titles by area) are usually not translated, and are pronounced according to the transcription of the language of origin.
      2. 0
        20 March 2023 08: 16
        Quote: kalibr
        Google translator

        For the sake of interest, translate the word long from Russian into Spanish wink
    2. 0
      20 March 2023 08: 33
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      so Campo Giro...

      Will sound Japanese like Hirohito wink

      How then to write and pronounce the name Ceballos del Hoyo?
      This is the ancestor of the gunsmith, the XNUMXnd Count of Condado de Campo-Giro.

  2. +5
    15 March 2023 04: 47
    Gift Astra 300 lux smile no longer a weapon, but a decoration in a shop window.
    I would put it on a stand and admire its forms endlessly.
    Thank you dear Vyacheslav for the article ... you know how to present stories about pistols as tasty treats ... salivating looking at this beauty. hi
    1. +2
      15 March 2023 05: 18
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      salivating looking at this beauty.

      Especially from the Mausers.....
  3. +2
    15 March 2023 08: 14
    Weapons and firms.
    And about the "Husqvarna" will be?
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +4
      15 March 2023 09: 19
      I understand. But the first, second and subsequent associations are chainsaws, chainsaws, chainsaws.
      1. +4
        15 March 2023 10: 26
        Before chainsaws - the largest arms manufacturer in Northern Europe.
        1. +3
          15 March 2023 11: 54
          I remember. But there's nothing to be done. Brand.
      2. +4
        15 March 2023 13: 03
        chainsaws, chainsaws, chainsaws.

        Well, a chainsaw can also be used as a utilizer of human beings. Push more, but the result is the same. smile
        1. +4
          15 March 2023 14: 01
          All sorts of supermen like Bruce Lee or Bond could get by with a toothpick and other improvised means.
          1. +3
            15 March 2023 15: 31
            I can't say about Bruce, but Bond was very conservative and preferred a good old firearm. smile
            At first, Fleming armed him with a very adjacent toy "Beretta 418" in 6,35 mm caliber.

            But then I decided to give him something more serious, and this "something" turned out to be the famous "Walter PPK" with a caliber of 7,65 mm.

            Time passed, progress did not stand still and the brave James kept pace with the times. wink
            so in his arsenal appeared "Walter P99" with a more powerful cartridge of 9mm Para.

            Perhaps in the future, in his old age, he will live to see a blaster. laughing
            1. +2
              15 March 2023 16: 02
              Not a very big fan.
              Not from the original:

              That's how he lived, as in a cage. Well, I sweated in the cinema.
              Various intelligence fooled as wanted.
              Now he walks in someone's skin, then he sleeps in an ashtray,
              And then on the lampshade someone will seduce.
              1. +4
                15 March 2023 16: 35
                Not a very big fan.


                If you're talking about Bond, then I'm not a big fan either. But Walter made and is making excellent pistols, he tried different models and the impression was the most pleasant. good
                1. +3
                  15 March 2023 18: 10
                  About Bond. YouTube throws up how he plays cards.

                  I don't understand the rules of poker either. And I don't regret it.
                  1. +2
                    15 March 2023 18: 36
                    I don't understand the rules of poker either. And I don't regret it.


                    Similar. smile
                    Never played anything for money. negative
                    1. +2
                      15 March 2023 19: 20
                      And gambling with the state is generally contraindicated.
                      1. +3
                        15 March 2023 19: 33
                        This is generally the biggest cheater in the gambling world.

                        But sometimes there are very entertaining games in cards. wink

                      2. +2
                        15 March 2023 20: 18
                        Apparently the evenings are not so cold.
                      3. +2
                        15 March 2023 21: 14
                        With a hot woman, no frost is terrible! smile
                      4. +2
                        16 March 2023 18: 44
                        Quote from Korsar4
                        And gambling with the state is generally contraindicated.

                        Sinful. I played. In that life. In *Sportloto*. I won once ... 25 rubles. laughing Lost? More. Ever since cut off. Nothing at all. bully
            2. +2
              15 March 2023 20: 40
              Astra 300. A pistol for jailers and the Third Reich
              1. +2
                15 March 2023 23: 10
                Video text
                with open trigger


                Well, where is his trigger, all the more open? laughing


                True, there was a trigger on the 400 model, but there is no smell of "openness" there. wink


                Hello Dima! smile drinks
                1. 0
                  18 March 2023 11: 06
                  Here is its insides on the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcGMrpMUd6Q shutter of surprisingly complex shape, compared to M1911 or even P-08 details
    2. +1
      15 March 2023 09: 21
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      And about the "Husqvarna" will be?

      It all depends on the design.
    3. +3
      15 March 2023 13: 32
      And about the "Husqvarna" will be?

      Please. smile

      Husqvarna M/40 is a Swedish variant produced under license. (Lahti M-35 is an original Finnish-designed pistol).
      Or like this ruzhzho.

      "Kombinashka" Husqvarna Model 17c with barrels for 20 gauge and 9,3x57R. The guns of the same series (Model 17a) were also produced as "semi-smooth" - the right barrel of 16 or 20 gauge with conventional drilling, the left one - for bullet cartridges of 20 or 24 gauge with a fully rifled barrel.

      Well, you've known this for a long time. wink
      1. +1
        15 March 2023 14: 32
        Well, you've known this for a long time.
        No, I don’t know, I don’t do log cabins. I have a Husqvarna tile cutter.
        1. +3
          15 March 2023 15: 10
          And what, also quite decent equipment, you can saw off not only tiles. wink laughing
          1. +2
            15 March 2023 15: 33
            Exactly! You can also cut marble and granite.)))
            1. +3
              15 March 2023 16: 32
              The main thing is that with its help it was possible to cut money. wink
              1. 0
                15 March 2023 19: 50
                By the way, uncle, did you shoot from the Colt M1911?
  4. +3
    15 March 2023 10: 21
    In 1998, the Basque government decided to create a new company by merging Astra Unceta y Cia and the bankrupt enterprise of Bonifacio Echeverria S.A. This new company was also called Astra, but it lasted only one year. After that, a certain Swiss company took the name, received the rights to the Astra trademark and also began to produce pistols, as well as AR-15 rifles of the StG-15 and StG-4 models.

    A rather confusing story, without knowledge of Spanish it is difficult to "unravel". Three firms were involved in the "merger" process: Astra, Star de Éibar and Gabilondo de Vitoria. The latter company, however, soon refused to participate in the "process", which, however, did not save it, and in 1999 it ceased to exist.
    The other two, Astra and Star de Éibar, created Agrupación Social Trabajadores Armeros in 1998 or ASTAR. Alas, ASTAR did not work even for a year and in 1999 "rested in the Bose", and in 2006 its production buildings were also demolished.
    And in 2008, an Italian businessman who lived in Guernica, Massimo Garbarino Markazaga, bought out all the patents of Astra and Star de Éibar and organized the company Astra Defense SA in Switzerland.
  5. +1
    15 March 2023 10: 33
    The Campo Giro pistol looks somehow repulsive, I can’t formulate why. There was always a drum for the appearance of the weapon, but then something caught on.
    1. +1
      15 March 2023 11: 13
      It's really true that tastes are subjective, I've always liked this gun.
  6. +6
    15 March 2023 11: 10
    Thanks to the author for a nice blast from the past. I never understood why the entire Spanish arms industry collapsed. I remember the weapons STAR, ASTRA and finally LLama. The Astra 400/600 pistol has always interested me, there are few large-caliber guns adopted for service. With modern technology, this could be done better. Like the Hi-Point, polymer frame, heavy metal frame and powerful spring. Through the introduction and improvement of the concept behind the Hi-Points, the extensive use of polymers, alloyed metals, and finally injection molding, pistols could be produced like cookies.
    1. +4
      15 March 2023 12: 51
      Hi Point. in general, consumer goods, which has not proven itself with anything other than cheapness.
      And even outwardly, the weapon is rather clumsy.
      Hi-Point JHP Semi-Automatic Pistol 45 ACP 4.5 Barrel 9-Round Black.


      Hi Point Pistols.

      1. +4
        15 March 2023 13: 45
        The weapon is ugly. Engage an Italian design studio and it will become even more beautiful. :-) But the concept is interesting in case of war and its mass production. In addition, the use of precious metals is limited to the barrel and a few inserts, the rest are in the cart and are made of TsAM alloy.
      2. +3
        15 March 2023 14: 15
        Hi Point. in general, consumer goods, which has not proven itself with anything other than cheapness.

        A pistol that is fully consistent with its purpose - a pistol for bedside gun safe (bedside gun safe). In countries where civilian short barrels are commonplace, such pistols are popular. They don’t shoot with him at competitions and don’t show off to friends. It is stored in the "bedside cabinet" just in case. And it must be evaluated solely from these positions.
        1. +3
          15 March 2023 15: 09
          It is stored in the "bedside cabinet" just in case.

          Well, I wrote that this is cheap consumer goods. And only ndopeski brag about weapons, and even then those who have a really bad head. hi
        2. +3
          15 March 2023 15: 31
          For example, I have a WEIHRAUCH revolver.
          Barrel 2,5 inches, 38th special caliber. Zamak frame, steel cylinder and steel barrel insert. For what I use when I practice on the range and then stow away in a crate, this is a great weapon. Hope I never have to use it. However chambered for 9 pairs, this would be an excellent atma for production in case of mass production.
          1. +2
            15 March 2023 15: 32
            Barrel 2,5"

            Why not three inches? If the length of the barrel, then they usually write the length in calibers.
            1. +3
              15 March 2023 16: 35
              WEIHRAUCH revolvers in caliber 38 sp. they are produced with 2,5-3-4 and finally 6 inch barrels. Revolver barrels are always listed in inches. I bought the 2,5" (63mm) model because it was ready for immediate delivery and also because the gunsmith gave me a discount on the price. laughing
          2. +3
            15 March 2023 16: 28
            And, so this is your Arminius, a well-known company. smile

            Yours, as I understand it, is the top one?
            1. +2
              15 March 2023 17: 33
              Exactly this. Except that in Italy they are better known as WEIHRAUCH. I forgot that they are also known as Arminius. good
              1. +3
                15 March 2023 17: 42
                I was going to buy a .22 caliber model. But the day I went to the armory, the gunsmith told me he had a .38 caliber model. 22 in stock, and that he would have sold it for the same price as 22. I always wonder if it would be better to order a model in XNUMX LR. I would definitely spend less on the shooting range.
                1. +2
                  15 March 2023 18: 44
                  I would definitely spend less on the shooting range.

                  Yes, I immediately thought about the price of cartridges. smile
                2. +1
                  15 March 2023 19: 07
                  Hello, colleague!
                  What is the cost of ammo?
                  1. +1
                    15 March 2023 22: 38
                    Sorry I didn't see the request. Want to know the price for 38 SP or 22 LR??
                    1. +1
                      15 March 2023 22: 47
                      For 38 SP Prvi Partisan and Magtech from 17/18 euros. Flakes cost 22 euros. Always in a pack of 50. Cartridges 22 LR cost from 4 euros to 10/11 euros. Always pack 50 pieces.
      3. +1
        18 March 2023 11: 12
        High point is something. Terribly clumsy appearance, a huge height of the axis of the barrel above the hand. And most importantly, an attempt to make a blowback shot under 9x19 looks strange for the USA. Okay, in the mountains of Afghanistan, this could be done, but in the States? The stroke of the drummer, as it were, is not 40 mm, also a peculiar solution. Like a one-stop shop.
        As a weapon to hide under the bed - the striker circuit is suspicious. It is safer to store the pistol with the trigger pulled and the cartridge in the chamber, and if anything cock the trigger with your finger. And here the drummer spring is constantly compressed, and very tight, most likely returnable.
        In general - a clumsy-looking huge "gun" for blacks with show-offs.
    2. +5
      15 March 2023 13: 28
      I never understood why the entire Spanish arms industry collapsed.

      Not the entire Spanish arms industry collapsed, but the production of small arms. The reasons for the collapse are accession to the EU, strong competition in the small arms market and the mediocre policy of the government of the Basque Country, which undertook to save this very production and, according to the Spanish tradition, instead of dealing with political squabbles and intrigues. The rest of the manufacturers were more fortunate; politicians did not deal with them. therefore, Spain is consistently in the top ten world leaders in arms exports.
      But hunting weapons in Spain are still produced, and not bad.
      1. +3
        15 March 2023 13: 47
        You are right, I meant small arms, but did not specify. hi
  7. +3
    15 March 2023 19: 11
    In Italy, the newly released Astra, Star and Llama pistols can always be found at a good price in gun shops. For example, Astra 80 or 90 can be taken away for 200 euros. The annoyance is that they are either chambered in 7,65 Parabellum or chambered in 9 Steyr, the latter not so readily available. Let's see now that they have legalized parabellum 9 if something in this caliber arrives, of course hoping that it will be cheap winked
    1. +4
      15 March 2023 19: 44
      chambered for 7,65 parabellum,

      Well, well, well ... But I thought that this cartridge was no longer produced. Interesting.

      For example, Astra 80 or 90 can be taken away for 200 euros.

      Perhaps the low cost of weapons just pays for the high cost of a rare cartridge?

      they legalized parabellum 9,

      If you mean 9x19 Para, then the cartridge should be cheap, since almost all countries have service weapons for this ammunition and drive it in a shaft. wink
      1. +5
        15 March 2023 20: 04
        Exactly 9x19. In Italy it was forbidden. Then, from January 2022, it was legalized. Now the first pistols of this caliber are entering the armories. Trouble will be for those who have weapons chambered for 9x21, we do not know what awaits us in the future. Will this caliber eventually be forgotten or will it continue on its own given the huge distribution it had? The 7,65 caliber cartridge is still made in Italy. Fiocco has a line of ammunition called "old glories" designed for outdated calibers. A box of 50 bullets costs 28,50 euros. But they are not always in stock and often have to be ordered with a long wait.
        1. +2
          15 March 2023 20: 33
          In Italy it was forbidden.
          Nevertheless, pistols for 9x19 caliber are quite successfully produced in Italy. Or just for export?
          1. +3
            15 March 2023 20: 56
            Until December 2021, the possession of pistols chambered for 9x19 was prohibited and was a criminal offense. Pistols were made for export. In Italy the same pistols were allowed but chambered in 9x21mm, for example the Beretta 92 chambered in 9x19 was sold in Italy as the Beretta 98 ​​chambered in 9x21. All this was a consequence of the old standard, in which certain calibers were indicated specifically for military use.
            1. +2
              15 March 2023 21: 03
              This cartridge is used instead of 9x19 in Italy.
              https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_%C3%97_21_mm_IMI#
              1. +3
                15 March 2023 21: 37
                Oh, so this is an Israeli cartridge 9x21 IMI smile
        2. +1
          15 March 2023 20: 49
          Savings from 9x19 would be possible if military surplus could be bought. But some obscure mind of the Ministry of Internal Affairs inserted a note, namely that "military" ammunition, mainly those marked with a cross, is prohibited for civilians. Obviously 9x19 with a cross becomes as powerful as RPG 7. Damn, I hate bureaucracy and these obscure officials who only make up nonsense just to justify their very existence. I know that you understand me, because after reading this site, I realized that between Italy and Russia, the competition between the two bureaucracies will be the finale between the top of the class. laughing
          1. +4
            15 March 2023 21: 32
            "military" ammunition, mainly those marked with a cross, is prohibited for civilians.

            Here, apart from the dense bureaucracy, there is also an elementary pumping of money from the population. Here's an example from Russia, but from a slightly different area: I have a driver's license for a car and a motorcycle, in the army I received the rights of a mechanic driver of the 3rd class of a medium tank, but damn it, in order to ride my ATV, I must have a tractor driver's license! Need to freak out! It's just that a lot of money flows into someone's pocket. True, I spit on all this and ride even without a license plate, I flew in once in ten years, but I immediately paid off. Bureaucracy and bribery, and everyone understands everything, but no one can do anything.
            We also live "fun" like you. wink
            Yes, about weapons - I have a BM-16 piece gun and it was practically not shot, but every five years it’s still a hassle to run for help. wassat
            1. +2
              15 March 2023 22: 16
              BM-16, is that a 16 gauge shotgun?

              The text of your comment is too short and in the opinion of the site administration does not carry useful information
              1. +3
                15 March 2023 22: 24
                Yes, 16 gauge shotgun, choke, payday, chrome barrels, walnut wood.
                With short trunks, we have a problem here, you yourself, you know. request
                1. +3
                  15 March 2023 22: 34
                  Yes, I've read. But each country has its own laws when it comes to weapons and they are not always clear. In Italy, a bayonet is considered the same weapon as a pistol. So in order to buy it, you must have
                  license and ownership report. In Germany, they are freely available, as they are no different from a kitchen knife. Some foolishly order them there, and then get into trouble if they are found at customs. laughing
        3. +1
          18 March 2023 11: 24
          Quote: Decimalegio
          cartridge 9x21,

          The intrigue is added by the fact that there are two 9x21 cartridges in the world - Your Italian 9x21mm Italian, or 9mm Italian) with a pressure of 235.00 MPa (34,084 psi)
          And a Russian 9x21 with a pressure of at least 350 MPa, but ... the diameters of the Russian cartridge are a little less, the difference is hundredths of a mm, but the conclusion is that it will be possible to load an Italian pistol with it, the question is how many shots it will live.
      2. +3
        15 March 2023 21: 09
        I checked the Fiocchi website, they also make 9 shteys. Box 50 € 27,00.
  8. +4
    16 March 2023 13: 58
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Well, a chainsaw can also be used as


    Let's just say differently...

    Quite a few years ago, in our office there was a couple of PCs, one was intended for general use, with access to the external Internet, but it was possible to get into it only on "great patronal holidays".
    Because, two colleagues regularly "hung out" behind him.
    One of my colleagues was constantly looking for various tools on the net, once he chose Husqvarna chainsaws for a long time, but he was called. And another colleague, as a rule, immediately occupied a heated place at the PC.
    But he watched exclusively the love joys of busty fairies.
    So, all the comrades are tired of this situation.
    At that time, a lover of naked charmers could not take a seat at the PC, something very conveniently delayed him.
    Having taken a place, I decided to fool around a little, and drove into the search engine what later united our impudent colleagues, namely, their, as it seemed to me, incompatible hobbies:
    "Porno with chainsaws".
    Literally in a couple of seconds, I gave way to an unexpectedly returned lover of chainsaws.
    For a long time, holding back laughter, we silently watched him scrolling down the page, trying to figure out how to order a chainsaw on the Internet and what does it have to do with naked girls and strange naked men with something overweight from the waist down, and a chainsaw in their hands.
    1. +4
      16 March 2023 17: 54
      Thank you for having fun! smile wink
      I'll try to answer the same. drinks
      A little about beavers and hunting.))))
  9. +1
    20 March 2023 02: 35
    "The design of the chamber and magazine of the Astra pistol allows loading and firing not only the standard 9x23 mm Largo cartridge (9x23 mm Bergmann-Bayard), but also several other types of 9 mm caliber cartridges (9x19 mm Parabellum and 9x22 mm Browning Long )". https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_400

    "In order for the Astra 400 pistol (Astra 400) to be able to use various cartridges, in addition to changing the size of the breech and extractor, an elongated drummer was also made. It can reach smaller cartridge capsules. It should be noted that the Astra pistol 400 (Astra 400) did not always reliably shoot some cartridges, for example 9mm Parabellum, and also cartridges of shorter length were not always accurately fed into the chamber. https://ohranservis.ru/ognestrelnoe/astra-400.html
  10. 0
    April 29 2023 11: 06
    During II. During World War II, the High Command of the German Armed Forces purchased 6000 Astra 1921 pistols. Production continued shortly after World War II. During the First World War 1921-1946, a total of 106 Astra Model 175 pistols were produced. This Astra Model 1921 pistol is an interesting opportunity for collectors of Spanish and European law enforcement weapons.
    The gun is of poor quality. am
  11. 0
    29 May 2023 13: 44
    The Astra y Cia gun company was one of the traditional manufacturers of short-barreled firearms, the production of which entered the history of arms production in Spain throughout the 20th century. Although the company specialized in the production of self-loading pistols, in 1958 it expanded its range to include Cadix revolvers in .22 LR and later .38 Special. From 1967 he also made very simple and inexpensive .22 LR revolvers under the brand name Regen.
    Spanish copy of the legendary Mauser C96 produced in 1928-1945 in 7,63x25 Mauser. Original surface and handles. The condition is mothballed, without additional test marks. In general, the Spanish types of weapons did not suit me very much, so I preferred to offer them for sale. am