"Break the face" of the "Fighting Falcon" or "Viper" - easy or not?

151
"Break the face" of the "Fighting Falcon" or "Viper" - easy or not?

There are talks about deliveries of F-16 fighters to Ukraine, optimists say that nothing will happen, because Biden said so, pessimists believe that they will give the planes. Not the US so the Netherlands. Not the Netherlands, but Poland. Or France. Or Germany.

Moreover, there are also options: Mirage 2000, Tornado, F-16. True, from this list, only the F-16 is more or less accessible in terms of ease of support, logistics infrastructure, the ability to train pilots to fly it, and multi-role capabilities. In terms of infrastructure and pilot training opportunities, it is really difficult to compete with the Fighting Falcon: in Europe alone, the F-16 is in service in eight countries, from Portugal to Poland, so there will be where to turn around.




But many people need to be trained: technicians, gunsmiths, engineers and, of course, pilots. And today, according to many American publications, many are thinking about how much and most importantly - how much is it really possible to train pilots not only to fly, but also to fight on the F-16?


Jack Hunter, Tyler Rogoway, Kyle Mizokami have all looked at this under the microscope. We also do not stand idly by, and therefore present our understanding of the issue.

As the war in Ukraine approaches the one-year mark, there are constant cries of support from various countries for Kyiv's requests to supply Western fighter jets to the Ukrainian Air Force. Ukrainian fighter pilots continue to work, finishing off and losing their already few MiG-29s and Su-27s. In bomber and assault aviation things are no better, because despite the equipping of the Su-24 and Su-25 with new models of Western weaponssuch as the AGM-88 high-velocity anti-radiation missile (HARM), Russia is constantly reducing the number of Ukrainian aircraft, albeit not in the way described in the reports of the Ministry of Defense. However, the numerical and technical advantage in the air is still with Russia.

Since March 2022, the Ukrainian leadership has repeatedly called on Western countries to replenish and expand their air force fighter fleet, which consists of aircraft from the Soviet era.

Today, Western weapons are flowing into Ukraine, but not a single one has yet been delivered from the NATO bloc. The Ukrainian side made it clear that the best option for the country's Air Force is to supply used F-16s to Kyiv.

Indeed, in the case of the F-16, there are many options for different training programs, and the technical capabilities are very close to the MiG-29, the aircraft familiar to Ukrainian pilots.


Colonel Yuriy Ignat, a spokesman for the Ukrainian Air Force Command, said two air squadrons of 12 aircraft, plus reserves, would be enough, at least initially, to help turn the tide against Russian aircraft. Somewhat self-confident, because the fighter regiment is not as much as it seems.

However, in January 2023, Ignat announced that not only the type of aircraft had already been determined (he did not say which one), but also the training programs for flight personnel. It has even been stated that Ukraine is already working on upgrading some airfields to accommodate Western-style fighter jets, pending receipt.

Despite President Biden's firm "no" to the transfer of the US F-16 to Ukraine last month, that "no" could easily turn into a "yes" in a very short amount of time. And even if the US government doesn't want to donate the F-16 itself, it can approve another supplier, such as the Netherlands or any of the other countries on the list above.

But many analysts in the United States unanimously say that the situation with the ban on the supply of aircraft can change at any time. And if the US government ends up authorizing the transfer of F-16s to Ukraine, what would that entail?

Absolutely nothing surprising. Generally the perfect solution. F-16 has a good history applications, well-established logistics in Europe and factories for the production of everything you need in the USA. And there is a fairly large number of used aircraft that can be given to Ukraine, after putting them in order.


Yuriy Ignat recently told Air Force Magazine that there are at least 30 pilots in Ukraine with sufficient English proficiency who are willing to go to the US for training if the F-16 deal is negotiated.

The issue of allocating time and money is no longer worth it, last year the Pentagon allocated $100 million for the retraining of Ukrainian pilots, and if there is money, there will definitely be time in training centers. But there must be plenty of time.

Even the Ukrainian pilots themselves say that it will take several weeks to master the first stage of takeoff and landing and flight from point A to point B, but to learn combat maneuvers, learn how to use missiles, they will need about six months.

And this is despite the fact that the F-16 is relatively easy and safe to operate, and therefore not too difficult to master. Within a few months, a pilot, initially unfamiliar with this aircraft, can safely retrain on the F-16. The systems are easy to operate, the aircraft is easy to fly and very intuitive to learn. An experienced pilot will have no difficulty with the F-16, and, regardless of what type of aircraft he flew before. This was the opinion of the Polish pilot, who at one time switched from the MiG-29 to the F-16.

“You fire up all of his systems, you move the throttle up, you fly. The flight control system will cancel out any big bugs, you really can't overstress the plane unless you really try to do it on purpose. You can't easily take it out of controlled flight - there are many cases where the aircraft itself takes care of you with such a level of safety that even an inexperienced pilot can fly safely - some of the safety systems include advanced ground proximity warning systems (EGPWS)."

The F-16 Complete Basic Course, also known as the "B-Course", is usually a nine-month process for young pilots who have just completed their training. It mainly consists of theoretical sessions, simulator exercises and training sorties. In addition to the courses, the Training Units (FTUs) also run refresher courses for pilots with experience on other aircraft - these are generally much shorter than a full "B-course".

In the case of completing the full B-Course, the first four weeks of theory classes teach pilots F-16 systems and emergency procedures. This is followed by about eight simulation sessions covering basic instrument flying and the practical experience of various emergencies before they transition to a two-seat F-16D for four instructor-assisted training flights ahead of the first solo mission.

The following sorties are intended to provide some experience prior to an instructor-led test flight during which pilots perform instrument flight and emergency procedures. After completing this program, the new pilot is considered qualified to fly the F-16 in all weather conditions during the day and may progress to night flying with night vision goggles (NVG).

Applicants go through learning basic air-to-air fighter maneuvers, dogfight maneuvering, and tactical interceptions before they move into the air-to-ground phase with low-altitude flying and ground attack tactics. There are about 60 sorties in the course, divided between the air-to-air and air-to-ground phases.

For seasoned Ukrainian fighter pilots, retraining on the F-16 can be like a typical FTU transition course known as TX. This has traditionally been applied to aircrew who are transitioning from one fighter type to another, or perhaps senior officers who need to fly multiple types. An individual retraining course could be the type of training program that a future Ukrainian F-16 pilot who has previously flown a MiG-29 or Su-27 will need.


An American flight instructor estimates that for a pilot with about 500 hours of flight time in an American fighter, but who has never flown an F-16 before (for example, if someone is switching from an F / A-18) without any breaks and days off, it will take 69 days to learn everything for the effective use of the F-16 in air combat and ground use.

“That's assuming they speak English well, because that's the language we teach. These 69 days include six flights to learn how to fly the plane and land it. About 15 air-to-air mission flights, but if they make progress, the number of flights can be reduced to 10. Further six to nine air-to-ground missions, which will include basic training in the use of laser-guided bombs (LGB) and guided munitions (JDAM). This gives a basic understanding at the wing level, and this is provided that they are already familiar with complex weapons such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM and the specifics of its application.

“They will also need to complete 210 hours of theory classes and 10-20 simulation competitions. You can't do it quickly - even doing two "flights" on the simulator a day means 10 days in a row. You cannot do such things quickly. So those 69 days would mean that the pilot could potentially operate the aircraft safely in a tactical training environment. Flying in combat is a different story."

“To go into battle against the Su-35, even the Su-27 in the air - now you are talking about a pilot with many years of experience. You can't do that with a brand new guy who's seen everything once! You can have all the capabilities of an airplane, but if the pilot doesn't know how to use it properly, then it's useless. So for the pilot who came with the MiG-29, the need to learn a whole new PVI (pilot-vehicle combat interface), where everything looks different, use a weapon that they have only ever read about to give them three months of training , and then throwing them into battle is a difficult task!”

“The difference between the MiG-29 and the F-16 Block 50 or Mid-Life Upgrade Viper (modifications of the F-16V - approx.) Is not a big step in performance, but it is a huge leap in technology, weapons and avionics. Even after 69 days of intense training, this is still just an entry-level pilot qualification, so to speak, an ordinary pilot in a wing. The question is who will lead the mission? You wouldn't just send out flyers as a lone hunter to try and shoot down anything with more than one vertical tail, would you? To be super effective, you need at least four aircraft, and in order to lead this, you need at least a year of intensive training - then you can crush the enemy.

“The answer was initially to be based on the creation of a new training program based on the specific needs of Ukraine and the scenario for the use of these aircraft, and then in order to effectively use this in combat (vehicles and pilots), six to 12 months of training would be required. And it would still be risky.”

The revelations of the seasoned air wolf of the US Air Force dot many i's, especially since this letter is also in the Ukrainian language. The instructor, who gave an interview to The National Interest, although he remained unnamed for obvious reasons, very clearly outlined all the problems that Ukrainian flight crews will face on their way to the F-16 pilot's seat.

In general, nothing terrible or supernatural, many countries operating the F-16 prefer to send their pilots to the United States for initial retraining. For example, pilots from Poland and Romania conduct F-16 training with the 162nd Air National Guard Wing at Morris Air National Guard Base in Tucson, Arizona. This could serve as an ideal place to train Ukrainian pilots.

Another F-16 pilot commented to the equally well-known The War Zone magazine that the US Air Force could easily squeeze 6 to 12 Ukrainian pilots into an existing retraining program for the latest F-16 modification and give them a targeted program that provides specific skills that will be needed by pilots in the theater of operations.

But here another small, but still problem arises. The study of Western weapons systems, which are fundamentally different from Russian ones, in much the same way as aircraft and weapons control systems differ. Different radars, different missiles, even displays in different places and in different languages ​​- all this is one continuous series of difficulties that Ukrainian pilots will have to overcome.

And also work with radio-electronic equipment for detecting and countering Russian air defense systems, of which there are also quite a few in Ukraine. Accordingly, like Russian pilots, the problem is that it is worth flying at low and ultra-low altitudes so as not to fall immediately under the Buk.

And indeed, speaking about the extent to which the regiment on the F-16 will be able to correct the situation in the air for the Ukrainian army, it is worth considering the question, but how much will it be possible to use the air defense system network? And this is a serious topic, because the actions of aviation are seriously hampered today by the air defense system. And only those pilots for whom low level flight is not a problem can fly. Slip under the radar beams, work out and go back again at ultra-low altitude.

Can it be done effectively after a brief relearning program? Good question, but the answer to it can only be obtained in combat conditions.


In general, the Ukrainian theater of operations will become more and more closed for flights. On the one hand, Russian S-300/400s, Buks and Torahs, on the other hand, all the same old S-300s, Buks and Patriots. Given the high saturation of troops on both sides and MANPADS, it is obvious that it will be very difficult for aircraft to realize their capabilities.

That is why, by the way, Russian planes do not carry out the usual patrolling of territories, but strike with long-range missiles from a safe distance. Plus cruise missiles and drones-kamikaze.

It is difficult to imagine how the pilots of American aircraft will act in such conditions, but the fact that the F-16 is unlikely to provide such a noticeable advantage over the same MiG-29 is said by many.

Ukrainian officials say they need a fighter with good radar and long-range missiles like the AMRAAM to be able to keep Russian fighters and bombers at a distance, so their American counterparts will need to weigh in on taking such a significant step and wonder if whether aviation continues to play a significant role in this theatre. It is possible that the air will have less of an impact in the future in Ukraine, especially as the SAM threat grows and the fighting shifts to urban areas where aircraft are least effective.

Ukraine has already received NASAMS air defense systems armed with AMRAAM missiles. AIM-120 missiles have shown their effectiveness and now it is logical to get aircraft that, with the help of AIM-120, will be able to intercept Russian cruise missiles outside the range of Russian Su-35S and MiG-31BM with their long-range R-37M.

The big question is what Ukraine will actually get out of the wide range of F-16 capabilities. This is not so much about flight modifications, but about weapons systems. It is clear that AMRAAM and "smart" weapons would be a huge leap in capabilities for the Air Force, but that's if they are given.


There is a possibility of AMRAAM missiles falling into the hands of the enemy, and this somewhat excites the US military, which is expectedly against this alignment. It's one thing - the NASAMS air defense system, which is located far from the front line and, of course, can be destroyed, but it is unlikely to be captured. Another thing is a plane with the same missiles, which can be shot down as a result of air combat or air defense systems.

It was not for nothing that the US restricted some F-16 export customers to the radar-guided AIM-7 "Sparrow" missile, which AMRAAM eventually replaced. Despite the receipt of brand new F-16 Vipers by Iraq, Iraqi aircraft are not armed with AMRAAM. Egypt also does not have AMRAAM on its F-16V Vipers. It is quite possible that Ukraine will also be refused.

There are many other weapons the F-16 can use. This is perhaps its biggest advantage. And this is especially useful for Ukraine, since the same JDAM guided bombs are also of interest to the Ukrainian military. GPS-guided precision-guided glide bombs could enhance the capabilities of the Armed Forces, as they could be launched again from a safe distance.

But the main tasks for the F-16 in the Ukrainian Air Force are the interception of cruise missiles and the countermeasures of air defense systems. It is in this way that it is possible to partially (the regiment - in this case, nothing) protect some objects from missile strikes and more effectively use the AGM-88 (HARM) anti-radar missiles already received from NATO, which are already used from MiG-29 and Su -27 Air Force of Ukraine. However, on the F-16, with its avionics suite and modern sensor systems, the AGM-88 could have been used more effectively.

In general - a separate issue, the issue of configuration. For the F-16C is one thing with Mk 82 "blunt" bombs and thermal AIM-9 "Sidewinders" of not the latest model or F-16V with AMRAAM and JDAM?


In any case, it is clear that they will not calm down in Kyiv, since the planes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are very, very needed. Attempts to compensate for losses with the help of Soviet MiG-29s and Su-27s from Bulgaria, Poland and Slovakia were unsuccessful, since the aircraft is not a tank, and its maintenance at the proper combat-ready level costs a lot of money. In addition, those models that could have been delivered to Ukraine from friends were still not subject to re-equipment and equipping with new NATO weapons systems due to old age.

The fact that they were able to adapt the AGM-88 HARM to the old Ukrainian Su and MiGs is already a technical feat. This will not work with AMRAAM, missiles with an active radar seeker will not be well combined with the radars that Ukrainian aircraft are equipped with. And even if theoretically this can be done, in practice it does not make any real sense.

Conclusion: it is clear that Kyiv is dreaming of a long-term program to get modern Western-made aircraft for free. And there is a very high probability that Ukraine will receive such aircraft sooner or later.

If Ukraine does get the go-ahead for the F-16 Vipers, then Ukrainian pilots will eventually be able to retrain quickly with a very condensed training program designed specifically for them.

However, this will not provide Ukraine with a fighter jet for its long-term future and will not give it a chance in the confrontation with the Russian Aerospace Forces. This requires not only aircraft and logistics, but also technical personnel, equipped workshops and airfields.

And it will turn out that Ukrainian pilots will simply be taught to fly an airplane, with a short course in the use of weapons such as unguided "air-to-ground" and something like "Sidewinder" for combat in the air, and then such pilots could be considered experienced in a couple of months. But this will not give Ukraine what they are asking for. This will take longer and will only be part of a larger flight and maintenance personnel transition that will take place over many months, if not years, rather than a few weeks.


So for the F-16 in Ukraine, of course, there is an entrance. However, what the output will be - that's just what you can not see.
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  1. 0
    11 February 2023 04: 39
    I tried to fly on flight simulators ... takeoff, landing and flying at low altitudes are the most difficult elements of flight, the slightest mistake or doubt then immediately sticks into mother earth.
    Air battles are surprisingly easy to master ... the main thing here is to quickly turn your head 360 degrees and not slow down in making decisions.
    The author in the article poorly illuminated the locations of the F-16s with Ukrainian pilots ... I believe they will be located near the borders with the Baltic States, Poland, Romania and possibly on the territory of these states ... surely, involuntarily, they will have to inflict missile and air strikes on them ... In general, the farther into the forest, the more firewood. what
    1. +23
      11 February 2023 06: 54
      The Baltic States, Poland, Romania, and possibly on the territory of these states ... probably, involuntarily, they will have to launch missile and air strikes on them
      Yes, something is not so certain, it is unlikely that they will be, strikes on the territory of NATO countries. We would have to suppress enemy air defense aircraft on Ukrainian territory, otherwise until something "stone flower comes out" with us ...
    2. +16
      11 February 2023 08: 38
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The author in the article poorly illuminated the F-16 bases with Ukrainian pilots

      Weird question. They will be based on military airfields of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The last blow was on them in February 2022. They are safe there.
    3. KCA
      +8
      11 February 2023 08: 54
      The only flight simulator that was called the most similar to real piloting is MS Flight Simulator, but there are no combat vehicles there, and if the hand is used to the mouse, how to steer a real plane? Stress, g-forces, uncomfortable sitting, yes 100500 pilots will name the difference between simulators and reality
      1. +2
        11 February 2023 09: 42
        The F-16 joystick is the most convenient for a flight simulator.
        1. KCA
          +4
          11 February 2023 11: 33
          A real joystick for flight simulators costs, cost, about $ 800, this is for toys, for military simulators 5 times more, a chair of 50 thousand, equipment is at least the same, having learned to turn the joystick on a stool, you will not learn to fly
          1. +10
            11 February 2023 13: 24
            Quote: KCA
            having learned to turn the joystick on a stool, you will not learn to fly

            Nevertheless, in NATO, simulators are used not only to improve the skills of pilots, but also the crews of MBT, BMP, and other vehicles. Efficiency exceeded expectations many times over. For example, MBT crews in a short time significantly increase the automation and coherence of processes, the speed of reaction and the reduction in the level of errors. At one time, until 2014, Rinemetal did just such a simulator for UVZ, I don’t know if they managed to finish it, but judging by the absence of any reports from training centers, apparently they didn’t finish it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Armed Forces of Ukraine have long been trained on similar simulators for NATO equipment, for example, on the same Leo2, which can be done covertly and easily on the territory of Ukraine itself. Of course, the simulator will not be able to 100% teach how to use the equipment, but they will be able to strongly prepare for this and significantly reduce the training time outside the simulator.
            1. 0
              April 3 2023 02: 09
              С
              Hundreds of hours on the simulator allow you to understand the operation of the controlled vehicle, hone some actions to automatism - such as retract the landing gear and flaps during takeoff.
              the simulator allows you to remember the options for using different weapons.
              Therefore you are right.
              Anyone who has not played the simulator will not understand this.
              Even the old F-19 allowed me to learn simple basic actions.
              So are helicopter simulators.
              And tank ones.
              In short, the simulator will not completely replace military equipment, but it will allow you to significantly increase the combat capability of troops at completely ridiculous costs.
              The simulator allows you to wind against both two enemies and against 20 enemies.
              So a simulator, even simple PC games, is a thing!!
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. +5
          11 February 2023 13: 39
          Quote: svoroponov
          For the German pilots of the former GDR, it took about 2 years - retraining and training to combat readiness on this type

          So they didn’t have pressure then, these 2 years with holidays, weekends and other holidays and fuss, which are not in the situation with Ukrainians. According to the compressed program, these 2 years turn into 6 months, which have already been discussed and it seems that pilots of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Germany have been training on the F-6 for at least 16 months.
          1. -1
            12 February 2023 03: 52
            It's not about pressure. There are certain norms for flight time, when exceeding which the assimilation of piloting by the pilot drops sharply and becomes unsafe for both the pilot and the aircraft. And in 6 months you will not prepare a fighter. Learn to fly, but experience in flying an aircraft for combat operations has been gained over the years.
            It’s just that in the west the tactics are to see as soon as possible, preferably first, shoot and fuck off. In close combat, or if they miss missiles and get close, then they are recommended not to engage in battle with (Soviet) Russian sides. Armament is already on an equal footing, but ours are more maneuverable. Westerners, when conducting training battles with our former allies, who piloted Soviet equipment, very often lost. That's why they are sharpened for the first shot first.
            Well, you won’t believe it, but the radars on our modern aircraft are already superior in detection range to NATO, as well as in the capture range and missile characteristics in terms of launch range. This is a fact that in the West they are trying to hush up, but they are trying to find fault with ours to the fullest.
            Yes, and more. They are very afraid of our air defense. They (their specialists) consider it one of the best in the world.
            1. +4
              12 February 2023 05: 04
              Quote: svoroponov
              It's not about pressure. There are certain flight times.

              In WWII - 400 hours for American naval aviation. For everyone else, much less.
              Quote: svoroponov
              but experience in flying an aircraft for combat operations has been gained over the years.

              How interesting. How many training sessions does an average Su-35 pilot have per year?
              Quote: svoroponov
              It’s just that in the west the tactics are to see as soon as possible, preferably the first, shoot and fuck off

              This tactic showed itself 40 years ago over Lebanon and Syria. It has practically no alternative in modern conditions.
              Quote: svoroponov
              then they are advised not to engage in battle with (Soviet) Russian sides

              About the fact that a dog dump is always a mistake, you can read from WWII fighters.
              Quote: svoroponov
              this and sharpened for the first shot first.
              Well, you won’t believe it, but the radars on our modern sides are already superior to NATO in terms of detection range

              Of course we don't believe it. The Soviet industry has never been strong in electronics, and the Russian radio industry does not exist at all. Musk is already selling AFAR for 500 bucks as a household appliance, and there are still no such radars on Russian aircraft.
              Quote: svoroponov
              They are very afraid of our air defense.

              )))
              1. -2
                12 February 2023 18: 07
                You can believe it or not, but it's true. The Su-35 captures and leads Western aircraft with its radar until the missiles are launched at a range at which our aircraft are just beginning to see their radar.
                Not long ago there was a message that our long-range missile at a range of 460-480 km destroyed a high-speed maneuvering target. The West does not have such missiles. Yes, and Ukraine can be judged. Their planes are destroyed at distances of 180-260 km. In this case, the detection is carried out precisely by the fighter's radar at such a distance of a low-flying target. Westerners can't do that yet.
                In general, it is necessary to abandon idolatry in front of Western technology and not really believe in those tactical and technical data that are written about for marketing and for better sales. Often she shows much worse results than they write about her in Western publications. In addition, operation is very expensive and has a lot of restrictions, which often many simply do not know about. Yes, and it often comes true with arm-twisting "partners", or for a bribe not small to those persons on whom decision-making and the allocation of funds for these purchases depend.
                Ours is not even bad. It's just that often many TTDs hide and either specialists get to know them or present them at the show. It comes from the USSR. Maybe you just need to work like in the West?
      3. +1
        11 February 2023 10: 59
        Discover DCS WORLD. There are so many combat vehicles that you never dreamed of.
        1. 0
          11 February 2023 14: 15
          I agree, the choice of aircraft and the development of weapons systems is one of the best to date, namely, for the F-16, perhaps the Falcon BMS, they say the study is at times, yeah, they say it’s better, the graphics are worse there, but he’s not about the graphics either.
    4. +5
      11 February 2023 15: 39
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I tried to fly on flight simulators ... takeoff, landing and flying at low altitudes are the most difficult elements of flight, the slightest mistake or doubt then immediately sticks into mother earth.
      Air battles are surprisingly easy to master ... the main thing here is to quickly turn your head 360 degrees and not slow down in making decisions.

      Air flight simulators have come a long way in recent years in terms of flight simulation. But it's still a simulator, like an artificial spruce. I remember in the 90s a group of our pilots headed by then colonel Alexander Kharchevsky flew Su-27 to the USA. There they carried out "joint maneuvering", well, that's another question. But! in addition to all these "manoeuvres", the pilots, both ours and the Americans, "steered" the equipment of the "rival". It took a professional a couple of hours to "master" it, to understand where the main instruments, features and principles of aircraft control are. Moreover, as Kharchevsky recalled, the American was even surprised by what our pilot was doing in the sky, on an American plane. I mean that if there is a pro in the cockpit, then he will cope with any aircraft. And do you remember such a moment as the hero Bykov drove Messerschmitt? There were such cases in life, the same Devyatayev, a fighter pilot, generally hijacked a bomber. The work of professionals. But the only question is where to get Ukraine pilots like Kharchevsky? The ghost of Kyeva is good for people and social networks, but ... otherwise ... Yes, and so, once, in the 90s, that the French on their Mirages-2000 (Normandie-Neman), that the Americans on their F-15s. those who flew to us, the first to celebrate the anniversaries of the Normandie-Neman regiment, the second on a return visit after A. Kharchevsky, were simply shocked by the quality of our runways and taxiways. And they flew to Kubinka ... So, in addition to pilots and technicians, they also need airfields, the quality is no worse than Cuban laughing ...
      1. 0
        15 February 2023 09: 24
        You are right about the WFP. The F-16 needs perfectly clean runways. At one time, the Americans flew to Bulgaria, so the soldiers were forced to sweep the runway before flying. No other way. Something will suck into the turbine and farewell to the plane.
  2. +14
    11 February 2023 05: 11
    "In Ukraine" - now it hurts the eye and ear a lot, but apparently not the author ...
    1. +18
      11 February 2023 06: 48
      Quote: svp67
      "In Ukraine" - now it hurts the eye and ear a lot, but apparently not the author ...

      Is that all you got from the article?
      I also liked the article. Detailed coverage of how the f-16 may appear in Ukraine. And he will surely show up. And it is useful to assume the associated threats. This is the first time I'm reading something like this.
      1. +21
        11 February 2023 06: 59
        No, well, it also cut, what really ..
        how f-16 can appear in Ukraine. .
        With such a toothless policy of grain, ammonia and other deals and no longer even funny red lines, this is not surprising
        First time I'm reading this
        Oh, how many wonderful discoveries this Strange Military Operation is preparing for us .. I won’t be surprised at anything - neither tanks nor NATO aircraft ..
        1. +22
          11 February 2023 07: 25
          Quote: not the one
          Oh, how many wonderful discoveries this Strange Military Operation is preparing for us .. I won’t be surprised at anything - neither tanks nor NATO aircraft ..

          It is necessary to manage this - the NWO is developing according to the most difficult and unprofitable option. Were there no others?

          Instead of finishing things quickly, we are waging a protracted war of attrition - a bloody, endless meat grinder into which the West is throwing more and more deadly weapons ...
          1. 0
            12 February 2023 14: 07
            Quote: Stas157
            It is necessary to manage this - the NWO is developing according to the most difficult and unprofitable option. Were there no others?

            You are panicking for no reason. Everything goes according to plan. In a month Lvov will be taken.
            1. -1
              12 February 2023 20: 08
              Stop rocking the boat! This is not a galley for you!
      2. +3
        11 February 2023 07: 56
        Quote: Stas157
        Is that all you got from the article?

        Of course ... But he expressed his first impression.
        Quote: Stas157
        This is the first time I'm reading something like this.

        For me it's not a problem now.
      3. -3
        11 February 2023 09: 07
        Quote: Stas157
        Detailed coverage of how the f-16 may appear in Ukraine. And he will surely show up. And it is useful to assume the associated threats. This is the first time I'm reading something like this.

        In reality, everything will be different. Pilots will be trained, money will be laundered, but NATO pilots will be at the controls, respectively, with the support of AWACS. So there will be no easy target for us. Who else is unknown. Most importantly, this should not be allowed until it is too late to carry out demonstrative tests of nuclear weapons, and atmospheric ones at that. And at the first trial delivery, hit the same in space, i.e. disable the satellite constellation, well, then, if it doesn’t reach, then God bless us, there is still no way out, we need to hit Poland already, and with all the proletarian hatred. By and large, it was necessary to use nuclear weapons in a limited form even on the border of Ukraine and Poland along the transport tunnel, which would have cooled many. And so there is a gradual promotion of the conflict, which will still lead to this, only we are losing our people, although we could have avoided this.
        1. +4
          11 February 2023 09: 51
          Pilots will be trained, money will be laundered, but NATO pilots will be at the controls, respectively, with the support of AWACS.

          Dear qqqq. I agree with you that NATO pilots will fly. And who will service the aircraft before the sortie? We need an aviation technical staff, which
          includes four groups of specialties that differ from each other in terms of the content of labor and, accordingly, the requirements for people - this is an aviation mechanic for the operation and repair of the airframe and propulsion systems of aircraft, an aviation mechanic for the operation and repair of aviation weapons, an aviation mechanic for the operation and repair of radio engineering , radio-electronic, radio communication and anti-submarine search and sighting equipment; aviation mechanic for the operation and repair of aviation equipment .... Aviation mechanics are required to study and know: the design, operating rules and the amount of periodic work on the equipment assigned to them; requirements of governing documents, in terms of the operation of equipment and the rules for maintaining technical documentation; grades of fuels, oils, special liquids and gases used on aircraft; rules for the use of maintenance equipment. They must be able to: qualitatively and timely perform all types of work and training on the equipment assigned to them in the scope of their functional duties; correctly refuel (charge) systems with special liquids, gases, oils, fuels; identify and fix technical problems

          And who will train aviation mechanics? Do they need to know English (or another) language in order to understand the technical documentation for a foreign aircraft? It really turns out: aviation mechanics will also be NATO. And where will the planes be based? It is logical to assume that these will be NATO countries. Your words are very relevant: "... this is how the gradual promotion of the conflict occurs, ..."
          1. -1
            11 February 2023 12: 14
            Quote: AA17
            It is logical to assume that these will be NATO countries

            Yes, I agree. Service, basing will be in Poland. For a media picture, they will bring in and allow a couple, three aircraft with a Ukrainian crew to shoot down or destroy on the ground. But the whole mass of departures will be from "there".
            1. +2
              11 February 2023 12: 56
              But the whole mass of departures will be from "there".

              Here is what the Resident telegram channel writes about the pilots. It is clear that the source is unreliable, but still... They write on behalf of the Ukrainian authorities. Next is a quote.

              Our sources in the Office of the President said that thanks to Akhmetov and Pinchuk, the Office of the President was able to form a whole list of potential pilots from Western PMCs and veterans of the US Air Force. According to our information, the oligarchs offered the F16 pilots $100 a month if the fighters were delivered to Ukraine.
          2. +3
            11 February 2023 13: 02
            Quote: AA17
            And who will train aviation mechanics? Do they need to know English (or another) language in order to understand the technical documentation for a foreign aircraft?

            Do you really think that there are no airports in Ukraine where Boeings and Airbuses could be served? Or are there any other requirements for civil aircraft?
            1. -1
              11 February 2023 17: 47
              Do you really think that there are no airports in Ukraine, ...

              Yes. I think. It's my opinion. Your opinion may be different.
              1. +2
                11 February 2023 18: 34
                Dear Negro.
                The article talked about the fact that the retraining of pilots from one type of military aircraft to another can take a long time.
                ... Or are there any other requirements for civilian aircraft?

                You have a question: why did you decide that the retraining of civil aircraft maintenance personnel for military aircraft maintenance specialists would not require significant time and financial resources? You will not argue that a technician who has serviced a civilian Boeing will also be able to service a military aircraft of a certain type, without retraining, in a qualified manner, will you?
                1. +2
                  11 February 2023 21: 23
                  Quote: AA17
                  You will not argue that a technician who has serviced a civilian Boeing will also be able to service a military aircraft of a certain type, without retraining, in a qualified manner, will you?

                  What does "no training" mean?

                  Every country has a large number of ground personnel certified to work with PW and GE products. There are much more of them than necessary - civil aviation is much more numerous than any military one. It is not required to develop skills to the level of reflexes; these people have been working with all sorts of documents in English and inch thread for decades. The requirements for servicing civil aviation are higher; civilians are more emotional about the loss of their sides than any Air Force.

                  They will pass certification for a new type of aircraft and go ahead, the usual work for peacetime. Just as they studied on some A220, so they will learn on the F-16.
                2. +1
                  16 February 2023 11: 31
                  However, it is not clear why a first-class pilot who has flown 29-800 hours on the MiG-1000, speaks English, and has been taught all the tactics of air combat on the MiG-29 - why is it difficult for him to quickly master all types of combat work on the F-16?
        2. +3
          11 February 2023 18: 01
          You got it with your avaks, read the performance characteristics, he sees our SU-35 at a distance of 400 km, so that the avaks could help with something, he must fly over Kyiv ....
          1. +1
            11 February 2023 21: 24
            Quote: Vasily Lugovskoy
            so that the avax could help with something, he must fly over Kiev ....

            Yes, over the Dnieper approximately. A compromise option is work on the sea and coast with AWACS in the neutral zone. In principle, Sevastopol and Saki are visible from Romania.
        3. -3
          12 February 2023 18: 23
          AWACS by our EW stations, if necessary, are completely jammed.
          This is not being done on the basis that there will be no hysteria about, as it were, an attack on NATO aircraft. And our capabilities were demonstrated to them several times. From ships in the Barents Sea - this is when for a short time all their communications on the territory of Norway and part of Finland, including the military (NATO exercises were just going on there) simply died. Then there was noise and notes addressed to us.
          Yes, and in Ukraine they used it. This is when at the same time reconnaissance aircraft and Americans with AWACS simply went blind and could not receive intelligence, although some aircraft guidance systems also failed, which is not safe. Well, Westerners also reduced the number of flights over the Black Sea. There, too, they could work only up to a certain point. Beyond these lines, all their intelligence systems went blind or the data received severe distortions.
          1. +2
            14 February 2023 16: 19
            Р
            Quote: svoroponov
            AWACS by our EW stations, if necessary, are completely jammed.
            This is not being done on the basis that there will be no hysteria about, as it were, an attack on NATO aircraft. And our capabilities were demonstrated to them several times. From ships in the Barents Sea - this is when for a short time all their communications on the territory of Norway and part of Finland, including the military (NATO exercises were just going on there) simply died. Then there was noise and notes addressed to us.
            Yes, and in Ukraine they used it. This is when at the same time reconnaissance aircraft and Americans with AWACS simply went blind and could not receive intelligence, although some aircraft guidance systems also failed, which is not safe. Well, Westerners also reduced the number of flights over the Black Sea. There, too, they could work only up to a certain point. Beyond these lines, all their intelligence systems went blind or the data received severe distortions.

            Do not forget about Donald Cook to tell how all the electronics on it went out and half the crew quit))) Those who are more or less familiar with physics know that these tales about electronic warfare are nonsense, interference can be put in a limited radius from the installation, but there is a problem that they will go blind and their. To quote the press about a connection muffled in Norway is not to respect yourself.
    2. +9
      11 February 2023 10: 24
      and the "anti-radiation rocket" does not cut anything? all is good?
      1. 0
        16 February 2023 11: 34
        Typo, "anti-radar". Happens.
    3. 0
      11 February 2023 15: 48
      Quote: svp67
      "In Ukraine" - now it hurts the eye and ear a lot, but apparently not the author ...

      Already equated with "... in the gutter ..."
  3. -8
    11 February 2023 05: 14
    I think that if these fighters are handed over to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then not so soon. And the situation on the LBS is changing daily. And the more successfully our guys act, the less chance the enemy has of these same F-16s.
    1. -4
      11 February 2023 06: 31
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      handed over to the Armed Forces, then not so soon

      Hope it's already too late! Hope !
  4. +12
    11 February 2023 05: 29
    We must immediately ask the F-22, why bother with trifles wink . By the way, some modifications of the F-16 can carry tactical nuclear weapons - the B-61 tactical nuclear bomb. It is clear that Ukraine will not be given it, but he is the carrier. It's all alarming, the world is approaching a big war. By the way, there was information, even a video from last summer, where Ukrainian pilots were trained in the United States. Perhaps already on the regiment there are ready-made pilots. Just six months have passed.



    F-16 Viper with thermonuclear B-61 on suspension
    1. +4
      11 February 2023 05: 56
      Quote: Military Commissar77
      We must immediately ask for the F-22

      Firstly, we ourselves do not have enough, and production has been curtailed, and cannot be restored. At least for a reasonable price.
      Secondly, Israel asked, and even Trump seemed to agree, but in the end they still didn’t give it. So, even if Ukraine suddenly becomes Biden's beloved wife, the F-16 "with mileage" is the maximum that they will give, since nothing else is available. And the fact that it is rotten and the engine eats oil - they putty, paint, and dviglo otkapitalat in the economy class, and why jump out of the pants, it’s clear that the buyer will smash the car soon (or even very soon) anyway, and then what the hell is a guarantee? Well, maybe the F-35 will be promised, but in a very distant future, because the entire production is scheduled for many years ahead for customers who have already given a deposit. Well, perhaps someone from the list will be thrown out for bad behavior and disobedience, like a Turk.
    2. 0
      11 February 2023 15: 52
      Quote: Military Commissar77
      By the way, some modifications of the F-16 can carry tactical nuclear weapons - the B-61 tactical nuclear bomb.

      And not some modifications of the F-16, but separately equipped aircraft. The so-called "carriers". It has its own characteristics, especially if with Air Force shoulder straps, then they should figure out what, who, when and how in this matter ....
  5. +15
    11 February 2023 05: 34
    I think that in six months it is realistic for an experienced pilot to retrain to fly the f-16
    It will be possible to serve them in Poland, but I think it will be so
    The question is whether they will give it to Ukraine or not - but judging by the tanks, they will give it, six months ago, the very possibility of supplying Western tanks for the Armed Forces of Ukraine looked fantastic
    So we need to prepare to meet them.
    1. +18
      11 February 2023 07: 03
      Yes, how time flies - yesterday the countries that our leaders called helmets with first-aid kits were afraid to supply as partners, and today we are discussing the imminent appearance of aircraft ..
  6. -1
    11 February 2023 05: 37
    To saturate the airspace of the Ukrainian Air Force, it will take not 12 F-16s, but about 200. Not very realistic. They should be, preferably, block 50, and preferably 70/72. Well, besides: who will serve them? The ground team is + 10 people. technical personnel on each side and airfields adapted for them, which should be one per squadron, regiment. Well, the price, and it is very biting ...
    1. +3
      11 February 2023 12: 58
      Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
      To saturate the airspace of the Ukrainian Air Force, it will take not 12 F-16s, but about 200

      Why saturate it?
  7. -2
    11 February 2023 05: 59
    With the transfer of aircraft from the west to Ukraine, the NWO will move into another phase, the phase of using vacuum bombs! And there I think it’s not far from tactical nuclear weapons! I don't see any other way!
    1. +14
      11 February 2023 08: 40
      With the transfer of aircraft from the west to Ukraine, the NWO will move into another phase, the phase of using vacuum bombs!

      Well, firstly, volumetric explosion bombs, let's still use proper terminology. And in essence, no new phase is needed for the use of such bombs. It is necessary to gain complete air supremacy, suppress air defense, so that our bombers can safely fly over the outskirts and drop all kinds of bombs, incl. and bomb bridges, which is certainly extremely important.
      I don’t even want to talk about nuclear weapons, this is the way to the destruction of mankind, including our children and grandchildren.
    2. 0
      28 March 2023 18: 28
      Children's faith in solid waste as a child prodigy.
  8. -2
    11 February 2023 06: 07
    An American flight instructor believes that for a pilot with a flight time on an American fighter about 500 hours, but who has never flown an F-16 before (for example, if someone is switching from an F/A-18) without any breaks or days off, it will take 69 daysto learn everything for the effective use of the F-16 in air combat and ground use.

    Let's start with the fact that American instruments show information in feet and miles. Only retraining from the usual meters and kilometers / hour will require a lot of time and effort. Or how during the Second World War they would stick pieces of paper with a "native" measurement scale?
    1. +15
      11 February 2023 07: 18
      Let's start with the fact that American instruments show information in feet and miles.

      I don’t know how it is on Polish F-16s, but on simple Chinese devices and complicated American ones, it switches to the metric system with one button. Well, if not arrow devices.
    2. +2
      11 February 2023 07: 57
      Quote: Amateur
      Let's start with the fact that American instruments show information in feet and miles. Only retraining from the usual meters and kilometers / hour will require a lot of time and effort.
      I probably got confused about their units for about 3 years, and this despite the fact that units are duplicated on all standard packages, such as 1 lb (16 oz, 454 g). Then I got used to it.
      1. +6
        11 February 2023 15: 51
        Firstly, Soviet pilots during the Second World War flew perfectly on American planes (Aerocobra, Boston, Catalina, etc.) with marking devices in facts, miles, etc. In addition, change the aircraft interface from feet, miles, degrees Frenheit to metric system of measures, this is the work of a programmer and not very complicated, it seems to me.
    3. +9
      11 February 2023 12: 57
      Quote: Amateur
      Or how during the Second World War they would stick pieces of paper with a "native" measurement scale?

      If they really give the 70th block, then there is a glass cabin, everything is on the monitors. They will release localization in Ukrainian and that's it. Falcons fly in a bunch of metric countries.
    4. 0
      16 February 2023 11: 40
      For Americans, speed indicators show in knots (nautical mile per hour) - what difference does it make to a pilot, and in what units does he have an instrument? He just needs to know the specific number of specific flight restrictions. And the height in feet - roughly mentally divide by 3, if you really want to know how much it is in kilometers.
  9. +10
    11 February 2023 06: 09
    With great impatience I look forward to when the “Ghosts of Kyiv” will be retrained for F-16s, etc. technique. The fact is that, speaking of this relearning, all authors miss one essential detail. On any type of aircraft there is such a device, which is called the artificial horizon (AG). You can fly without this device only on the Farman, the failure of the AG is like death, so it is at least three times duplicated on the dashboard.
    AG MiG-29, etc. technology, and AG F-16, etc. techniques differ approximately like a bicycle from a unicycle. On Soviet aircraft, devices of "reverse" indication are installed, and on Western technology "direct". These devices require different skills that cannot be obtained in a couple of months.

    In the photo below, on the left, is a Western AG with a “direct” indication, and on the bottom right, a Soviet (Russian) one with a “reverse” indication.


    The transition from one type of AG to another creates problems even for civil aviation, whose planes and helicopters do not need to conduct air combat. So in Russia for the period from 1989 to 2008 there were 10 air crashes associated with the loss of spatial orientation when using a "direct" indication on the AG. At the same time, 3 transport helicopters and 7 Civil Aviation aircraft were lost. Accidents due to the loss of spatial orientation on an aircraft with a "reverse" indication for the entire period of operation in the USSR and Russia have not been recorded.
    If you train the “Ghosts of Kyiv” in horizontal flights in a straight line, then, in principle, you can meet it in a couple of months. If you train them to conduct air combat and fly at low and ultra-low altitudes, then the real terms are not predictable. It seems that the Americans have conceived another experiment, and the Ukrainians are an ideal consumable for this experiment.
    1. +7
      11 February 2023 06: 27
      The theme is already ringing that, at least for the first time after the start of deliveries, either mercenaries who can fly the F-16, or regular flyers of NATO countries "on vacation" or "on maternity leave" will be at the controls. It seems to me a very likely possibility.
      1. -1
        12 February 2023 12: 03
        The fact is that, speaking of this relearning, all authors miss one essential detail. On any type of aircraft there is such a device, which is called the artificial horizon (AG). You can fly without this device only on the Farman, the failure of the AG is like death, so it is at least three times duplicated on the dashboard.


        Let's not fantasize. Domestic aviation uses artificial horizons of both reverse and direct indication, as well as combined indication. There are even inverted indications, but this is a blanket theme.
        And they do not cause any difficulties for development. And if instrument piloting is difficult for a pilot, then any artificial horizon will not help him.
        I flew the Mi-2, where the AGK-47 stood with reverse indication both in roll and in pitch.

        Then on the Mi-8T there was already an AGB-ZK combined indication, reverse in roll, but straight in pitch.

        And already on the Mi-24 there was a PKP-72, where there was a completely direct indication.
        1. -3
          12 February 2023 13: 49

          Nice photoshop! Judging by the escort helicopter, the flight is horizontal with a slight roll. Whereas the PKP shows a dive at an angle of about 90 degrees with a roll (in short, Khan to a kitten!), And on the AG, a roll, zero pitch and the red blender sticks out. Those. the device is de-energized.
          1. +3
            12 February 2023 16: 09
            Do not try to be smart about this topic, it does not suit you. Yes
            There is a left roll of about 30 degrees, this can be seen both from the control panel itself and from the projection of the horizon line on the windshield.
            There is also a negative pitch within 12-15 degrees, you imagined a dive of 90. Again, confirmed by PKP and the horizon line on the windshield.
            As for AG, it is not there, there is UKT-2. And in normal mode, it is really disabled. Since the signal for powering it goes to UKT-2 in the Mi-24P version, or PKP-72 in the Mi-24P version, located in the front cockpit.
            In the event of failure of the PKP-72 in the rear cockpit, the pilot-operator will turn off his device, thereby giving a signal to the backup UKT-2.
            1. +1
              13 February 2023 05: 05
              PKP in the black sector with an invisible horizon line is it a dive at 12-15 degrees? - Oh well! Okay, God bless him with this photo. If you fly with the AG turned off (UKT-2 isn’t it AG?), then what else to talk about with you? Therefore, initially I did not want to get into a stupid argument.
              We are not talking about retraining such glorious helicopter pilots as you on the F-16. We are talking about the retraining of a fighter pilot from the MiG-29 to the F-16. It's not the same thing.
              From the point of view of fighter aviation, a helicopter is a low-maneuverable machine. Of all the vertical aerobatics, only the spiral is available to the helicopter. Or will you say that making a dead loop on a helicopter is like two fingers on asphalt? In your cockpit, as well as on a transport aircraft, there is a VAR-30. On the VAR-200 fighter. Do you see the difference? Or do you not care? In addition, the speeds of the helicopter and the F-16 differ by an order of magnitude.
              The times of the Hartmans are over, and modern fighters fly instrumentally almost all the time. The attitude to instruments in IA is completely different than that of helicopter pilots, and their skills are completely different. A simple example. Recently there was a note about how the “Phantom of Kyiv” crashed into Shahid. Everything was very simple. The "Ghost of Kyiv", having no visual piloting skills, was unable to determine the speed of the aircraft relative to each other, and cuckoo Grin, off the hook!
              The main instrument on the dashboard of a fighter is the AG (I will not list the brands). It's called the main one. In addition to it, there is also a backup and PKP. The control panel is an auxiliary device, in IA, BA and VTA it is used mainly for director control, and only in emergency as an AG. Moreover, there is no mixture of AG with reverse and direct indication on aircraft. Unlike helicopter aviation, turning off the backup AG on an airplane is an emergency, an emergency that must be reported to the top, and the culprit is guaranteed to hit the people to the fullest.
              Air defense drove combat aircraft from high altitudes. This is especially evident in the SVO. Now, for military aviation, low-altitude flight is the norm. In turn, it is obvious that the night flight of a helicopter along a route at an altitude of 300 m is an area of ​​​​comfortable piloting for a pilot - rumble to yourself slowly. You can drink tea and other strong drinks. For a fighter, a night flight of 300 m is a situation close to stressful. I hesitated for one second when reading the instrument readings, another second of jitters and a mouthful of earth. Therefore, all piloting is only on reflexes.
              And now about the subject of the dispute. By itself, a direct indication of the AG is already a prerequisite for a flight accident. According to American data, from 1985 to 2000, 82 pilots died in the US Air Force due to loss of spatial orientation, which is 20% of air crashes during this period. This problem is confirmed by domestic statistics of GA. I already wrote that the loss of spatial orientation due to AG with direct indication led to a plane crash of 10 domestic aircraft. Including three helicopters. Therefore, if I were you, I would not show pictures, I would think about it. Or do you think that this does not threaten you? None of my business, of course, but I would advise you not to tease God with a fig.
              The Americans are not stupid, and since 2014 they have been talking about the fact that GA aircraft (!!!) must be equipped with backup AGs with reverse indication to take the aircraft out of a difficult spatial position. Those. American civil aviation, unlike you, is aware of the problem.
              Now we take the “Ghost of Kyiv”, which flew the MiG-29 equipped with an AG with reverse indication all its life. On the MiG-29, AGs with direct indication were not installed; he has no experience in flying with such instruments. In a couple of months, even a monkey can be retrained from reverse to direct indication. That's just the previous reflexes will not go anywhere, but there are no new reflexes yet. And immediately after retraining into battle, and immediately to low and ultra-low altitudes. Plus, the very psychophysical lack of direct indication. Do not go to a fortuneteller, but in a stressful situation, the pilot will inevitably experience the imposition of unfavorable factors on the conflict between the old new conditioned reflexes and hello.
              But, as I understand it, it’s useless to explain this to helicopter Hartmans, so I’m waiting for a dozen more minuses.
              1. +1
                13 February 2023 14: 25
                PKP in the black sector with an invisible horizon line is it a dive at 12-15 degrees? - Oh well! Okay, God bless him with this photo. If you fly with the AG turned off (UKT-2 isn’t it AG?), then what else to talk about with you? Therefore, initially I did not want to get into a stupid argument.


                The argument is really stupid, for the simple reason that one of the opponents is far from the topic, but is trying to prove something.
                Yes, UCT and AG are not the same thing. AG is a device that receives only three-phase AC power 36V 400Hz. UKT, this is only an indicator, a roll and pitch indicator, and the control signal for it is formed by a small-sized vertical gyro (MGV).
                Well, if you are not satisfied with the provided photo, then here is another one taken by me personally when I was a lieutenant. The forward cockpit of the Mi-24P.

                Right bank about 4 degrees and negative pitch about 6.
                On the right, next to the height indicator, you can see the switch of the same control panel, I also wound electrical tape on it. And it is this switch, in fact the switch, that is responsible for which device will work, the PKP in the cockpit of the pilot-operator, or UKT-2 in the cockpit of the commander, where it is a backup device.
                But the front cabin of the Mi-24V.

                Here, instead of PKP, UKT-2, you can also see its switch.

                We are not talking about retraining such glorious helicopter pilots as you on the F-16. We are talking about the retraining of a fighter pilot from the MiG-29 to the F-16. It's not the same thing.
                From the point of view of fighter aviation, a helicopter is a low-maneuverable machine. Of all the vertical aerobatics, only the spiral is available to the helicopter. Or will you say that making a dead loop on a helicopter is like two fingers on asphalt?


                Another portion of feverish delirium. Why did this suddenly ascending spiral become a aerobatics figure. Yes, and they don’t turn pilots on instruments. lol

                Or will you say that making a dead loop on a helicopter is like two fingers on asphalt? In your cockpit, as well as on a transport aircraft, there is a VAR-30. On the VAR-200 fighter. Do you see the difference? Or do you not care? In addition, the speeds of the helicopter and the F-16 differ by an order of magnitude.


                And who, in addition to helicopters, can fly at altitudes of 5-10 meters while maneuvering vigorously. Or do you think that this is like two fingers on the asphalt at speeds of 200-280 km / h?

                The times of the Hartmans are over, and modern fighters fly instrumentally almost all the time. The attitude to instruments in IA is completely different than that of helicopter pilots, and their skills are completely different. A simple example. Recently there was a note about how the “Phantom of Kyiv” crashed into Shahid. Everything was very simple. The "Ghost of Kyiv", having no visual piloting skills, was unable to determine the speed of the aircraft relative to each other, and cuckoo Grin, off the hook!


                Are you in good mental health? Well, such a blizzard in one's right mind cannot be carried. IFR flight is carried out only in SMU or visibility of the natural horizon. For all types of aviation, the rest of the time PVP. And the attitude to the devices is the same for everyone.

                In turn, it is obvious that the night flight of a helicopter along a route at an altitude of 300 m is an area of ​​​​comfortable piloting for a pilot - rumble to yourself slowly. You can drink tea and other strong drinks.


                Only you rumble, one natural hole in the sofa, drinking tea and other strong drinks. And in the cockpit, work is not up to comfort, regardless of height.

                The main instrument on the dashboard of a fighter is the AG (I will not list the brands). It's called the main one. In addition to it, there is also a backup and PKP. Control panel auxiliary device


                Such comments only spoil.

                Moreover, there is no mixture of AG with reverse and direct indication on aircraft.


                Hmm, insanity is getting stronger. Yes, they have long switched to a combined indication, direct in pitch and reverse in roll. Devices like AGK-47 are a rarity.

                Unlike helicopter aviation, turning off the backup AG on an airplane is an emergency, an emergency that must be reported to the top, and the culprit is guaranteed to hit the people to the fullest.


                Not a shutdown, but a failure is a special case. Crazy again. And there is no difference here by type of aviation.

                And now about the subject of the dispute. By itself, a direct indication of the AG is already a prerequisite for a flight accident. According to American data, from 1985 to 2000, 82 pilots died in the US Air Force due to loss of spatial orientation, which is 20% of air crashes during this period. This problem is confirmed by domestic statistics of GA. I already wrote that the loss of spatial orientation due to AG with direct indication led to a plane crash of 10 domestic aircraft. Including three helicopters. Therefore, if I were you, I would not show pictures, I would think about it. Or do you think that this does not threaten you? None of my business, of course, but I would advise you not to tease God with a fig.


                I know what to do. But you would not broadcast on this topic, but ask.
                I have experience in instrument flying with both reverse and combined, as well as direct indication. There is no difficulty, except for direct indication. And the point is not in perception, but in the fact that on the same AGK-47, when the pitch is exceeded by more than 20 degrees, the “airplane” rolls up and one can only guess about the magnitude of the roll.
                And the loss of spatial orientation is from another opera. The vestibular apparatus must be regularly trained.
                1. -2
                  13 February 2023 15: 28
                  vovochkarzhevsky
                  Why all this verbiage of yours with photographs, I still do not understand. What do you want to prove? That AGs are used on helicopters with both direct and reverse indication? I willingly believe you. You want to prove that it is easy to relearn from reverse indication to direct. I agree with this and have already written about it. In two months, even a monkey can be retrained from reverse indication to direct. But you struck me with your last phrase:
                  And the loss of spatial orientation is from another opera. The vestibular apparatus must be regularly trained.

                  - Treatment of loss of spatial orientation by training the vestibular apparatus?! - gee-gee-gee! The level of knowledge of the ensign head. warehouse. Are you sure you have anything to do with aviation?
                  1. +1
                    13 February 2023 16: 27
                    By verbiage, it's just you are an expert. Yes
                    And if you think that the loss of spatial orientation is due to the fact that the pilot did not understand something on the instruments, then to put it mildly, you are mistaken.
                    No one performs complex instruments, let alone aerobatics. Not that it's difficult, it's just not necessary. Instrument flight is for simple aerobatics. When the movements of the controls are smooth and without large deviations.
                    And if you suddenly make a mistake, for example, instead of reducing the roll, you continue to increase it, then you move the handle in the other direction.
                    But the real problems begin when personal sensations begin to contradict the instruments. The plane / helicopter flies straight, and it seems to the pilot that there is a roll, and even a big one. This happens even with experienced pilots during long manual piloting in the clouds.
                    If there is a co-pilot, then you need to transfer control to him, and come to your senses yourself, close your eyes for a few seconds, shake your head. In rectilinear flight, it is natural, if at that moment there is a landing approach, there are no options for go-around.
                    If there is one, then in a straight flight, pedal the ball, thereby putting your own things in your head into place. In fact, often false sensations arise from the fact that the ball (slip indicator) has run away.
                    The only exception is the AGI-1 attitude indicator, with an inverted pitch indication. This miracle could easily confuse.
    2. 0
      11 February 2023 07: 19
      Quote: Old electrician
      . Accidents due to the loss of spatial orientation on an aircraft with a "reverse" indication for the entire period of operation in the USSR and Russia have not been recorded.

      On flight simulators, I used the same foul language on Anglo-Saxon instruments ... everything backwards ... it's hard to get used to them. hi
      1. +1
        13 February 2023 14: 38
        And who, in addition to helicopters, can fly at altitudes of 5-10 meters while maneuvering vigorously. Or do you think that this is like two fingers on the asphalt at speeds of 200-280 km / h?

        Sports propeller piston aircraft, which are several times cheaper than helicopters and more maneuverable. And if from the history of I-16 and I-153. And which are at times less noticeable for MANPADS.

        1. +1
          13 February 2023 19: 43
          ......................These are still flying high, here it is lower.


          or as

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKoqNNo_6OE
          1. 0
            14 February 2023 08: 37
            .This is still flying high, here it is lower.

            This Mi-35 canoe flew in this video only in a straight line. The links don't work by the way...
            1. +1
              14 February 2023 18: 14
              And you try to fly at least in a straight line when the bushes bite your belly.
              At the same time, determine the height in these photos.




    3. +2
      11 February 2023 08: 04
      Quote: Old electrician
      The transition from one type of AG to another creates problems even for civil aviation, whose planes and helicopters do not need to conduct air combat.

      In a calm environment, when you act "by the mind", retraining works. And in a critical situation, you act on reflexes, and reflexes are sharpened for what they are sharpened, and it takes much longer to sharpen them than retraining, if possible at all.
      So, perhaps, it is better for the Ukrainians to take untrained cadets and train them on the F-16 from scratch.
    4. +15
      11 February 2023 09: 28
      1975, we in Yeysk, on the 3rd course from the L-29, switched to the MiG-17, where yes, direct and reverse indication, flew on the simulator and after 2 weeks everything settled down in my head, the 4th course of the Su-7b on it again AGI with reverse indication on Su-7u AGD with a straight line, there were no questions and discomfort too. Experience is the son of difficult mistakes, that's all.
      1. +5
        11 February 2023 12: 23
        we in Yeysk on the 3rd course from the L-29 switched to the MiG-17 where yes direct and reverse indication
        You wrote everything correctly. It's all about the neural connections in the brain, the older the more difficult and sometimes impossible to remake. You easily switched to a new system because you were young and students (the connections were weak + young brain). Therefore, the most logical thing to do with The Ukrainian side is sent for retraining just cadets of flight schools. If you send there (if they still remain) experienced pilots who have been flying for decades, there may be problems here. Purely because of the structure of that very brain hi
        1. +1
          12 February 2023 21: 55
          It was for this reason that an airbus once crashed in Perm, which was flown by a pilot who had transferred from domestic airliners
      2. +3
        12 February 2023 12: 29
        And with such a miracle it was not possible to deal with? That's where the removal of the brain.
        1. +1
          12 February 2023 21: 54
          vovochkarzhevsky
          Plus! It seems that neither the author of this opus (more precisely, Google translation), nor the majority of commentators on the artificial horizon are simply unfamiliar ... And besides him, there are many other devices, and not only devices ...
    5. 0
      18 February 2023 23: 22
      Bravo, good theory. Are you a pilot? Or what do you have to do with aviation?
  10. -3
    11 February 2023 06: 19
    optimists say that nothing will happen, because Biden said so, pessimists believe that they will give the planes.
    Too categorical. I think that the so-called. "optimists" still do not rule out the appearance of Western aircraft in Ukraine. And the development of events shows that this is what is going on. Time will tell how quickly and efficiently Ukrainian pilots will master the F-16 or some other aircraft, and here I agree with the author that
    will not provide Ukraine with a fighter for its long-term future and will not give a chance in confrontation with the Russian Aerospace Forces
  11. +10
    11 February 2023 07: 13
    But the main tasks for the F-16 in the Ukrainian Air Force are the interception of cruise missiles and the counteraction of air defense systems.

    Actually, this is the answer ... What kind of battles with the SU-35 - our planes do not especially (and not especially) fly into the depths of enemy territory.
    They will spin for a couple of months in the depths of the territory on protection against cruise missiles, get used to the aircraft, then they will think about air battles ... Yes, and AMRAAM operates at 160 km, Sparrow at 85 km, there is absolutely nothing to enter the ground-based air defense zone too much - S-300/400 is also not at the front line ...
    Long-range air-to-air and air-to-ground are, of course, more expensive - but on the other hand - what's the point of supplying expensive aircraft with cast-iron bombs? Of course, we will hope for this, but it would be nice to have a plan "B" ...
    1. +7
      11 February 2023 14: 05
      Quote from tsvetahaki
      what's the point of supplying expensive planes with cast-iron bombs?

      So after all, the supply of JDAM was already announced in the last package of military assistance to Ukraine. There will be no cast iron, they have not been used in NATO for a long time, and JDAMs are essentially cheap relative to bombs, which allow you to bomb accurately and not endanger expensive aircraft. The lack of JDAM analogues in the Russian army today is one of the biggest problems at the front, because the Su25 slides and helicopters with NURSs cannot be called air support. Few people now discuss possible battles for control of the airspace. The Russian Aerospace Forces will not just be against aircraft with AFAR. The Serbs already had such an experience, when their Mig29s in an amount of like 9 pieces were all shot down by the Dutch F-16s, which in turn were supported by AWACS, the Serbs, in turn, failed to shoot down a single F-16. Does the Russian Aerospace Forces have experience in working in a passive mode, in conjunction with AWACS of the A-50 type?
  12. +5
    11 February 2023 07: 20
    Yes, no one will prepare Ukronazis to fly on foreign planes !!! It has already slipped on the Internet that, thanks to Akhmetov and Pinchuk, the Office of the Clown Ze was able to form a whole list of potential pilots from Western PMCs and veterans of the US Air Force. The oligarchs offered the F16 pilots $100 a month if the fighters were delivered to Ukraine.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. +7
    11 February 2023 07: 54
    Some pattern can be traced: The appearance at the front of a particular weapon is preceded by a "bouquet" of articles on the Internet about it, weapons, technical characteristics, about future problems in its operation and maintenance, about the almost zero effect of this weapon on the course of hostilities, about weakening by the West of its military potential, etc. and so on. The start of this phenomenon was given by the Javelins. What am I talking about ... After all, someone organizes such a massive stuffing. Who is this "someone" and what is his purpose?
    1. +4
      11 February 2023 17: 52
      It seems to me that this question is rhetorical and you know the answer. The "mysterious" someone is our native agitprop, which creates the necessary information background so that the reading masses think the right way. Those. the goal is, in addition to creating an appropriate image of the enemy, to create confidence in an early (or not so) victory. Approximately the same thing happens with our "counterparties" ...
    2. 0
      18 February 2023 23: 41
      The goal is simple - to write something that readers will like. More readers, more ad revenue
  15. -4
    11 February 2023 08: 15
    F-16 is not a revolver and you can't hide it in your pocket. For the operation of this aircraft, take-off areas, hangars, places for storing fuel, a radio navigation and radar system, and much more are needed.

    Why am I? And to the fact that all this is easily detected and just as easily (hopefully) destroyed. I hope that all this equipment will be disposed of at the places where it is located. And disposed of along with the pilots and their instructors. Just a job for "Caliber" ...
    1. +7
      11 February 2023 11: 20
      Then why is the Soviet fleet flying, equipped with a special coating that makes armament impossible?
    2. +4
      11 February 2023 12: 35
      The MiG-29 is no different in this regard, and they still fly.
  16. +7
    11 February 2023 08: 53
    I think there are enough already trained pilots on the F-16 or other vehicles in the world who will agree to hire out while purely Ukrainian pilots are being trained.
  17. +3
    11 February 2023 09: 20
    They say, whether on the sidelines, that the F-16 is a carrier of tactical nuclear weapons, and this is the threshold when both NATO and the Russian Federation can be drawn into a world war with all the consequences. And no one wants to prevent this, well then at least we’ll find out who is right: Obama, that the Russian Federation has 8300 tactical nuclear weapons or Gorbachev, that there are 22000 ammunition, for reference according to the standards of the USSR SA, all of Europe needs 8300 with a penny of ammunition, this is stupidly denoted by squares of 40x40 km and in the center of the square we explode the ammunition, the question is, what remains of Europe?
    1. 0
      11 February 2023 12: 34
      They say, whether on the sidelines, that the F-16 is a carrier of tactical nuclear weapons

      Bearer, this has long been known. Only a set of special equipment for the use of nuclear weapons is needed.
      stupidly designate squares 40x40 km and in the center of the square we explode the ammunition

      TNW has limited power and damage in such a square as a whole will be insignificant
      1. +3
        11 February 2023 12: 57
        And the Manual on the Combat Use of Weapons of Destruction said: "The simultaneous use of special ammunition closer than 40 km from each other is strictly prohibited."
        1. 0
          12 February 2023 00: 27
          It was written there that TNW provides a zone of continuous destruction of a square of 40 * 40 km?
          In fact, the zone of more or less serious damage to a charge of 10 kt, for example, is a maximum of 2 km, depending on the terrain and buildings. It can also knock out windows by the same amount. Sad, but not fatal.
  18. +5
    11 February 2023 09: 35
    For the 3rd year of the war, while maintaining standing at the front, they will have the Armed Forces of Ukraine and F16 with Tornado! Now they will train pilots just in case, but it depends on us whether this case will come or not stop
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. +2
    11 February 2023 11: 21
    Quote from Tim666
    Then why does the Soviet fleet fly, equipped with a special coating that makes it impossible to detect?
  21. -1
    11 February 2023 11: 45
    The article is good.
    The article is detailed.
    But very bulky
    In a nutshell...
    Nothing special will change for Ukraine.
    But it is not worth dragging out the process of resetting the Bandera nest.
    1. +9
      11 February 2023 14: 38
      Quote: Red Biker
      Nothing special will change for Ukraine.

      Of course, it will not change, just as it has not changed after the delivery of a couple of dozen Chimeras and a couple of hundred artillery systems. True, the military at the front say something different than users from warm sofas, and the database map confirms what the military is saying, and not from sofas. So, until now, NATO's assistance with precisely modern weapons has been limited to these several hundred guns and a couple of dozen Chimeras, + anti-tank systems and other trifles. So far, the bulk of the guns and equipment is Soviet, Ukrainian, Russian. But now they have announced the delivery of several hundred MBTs of the A1M2 and Leo2 level, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers with heavy armor and modern weapons, to which they want to supply to the heap F-16 and JDAM aircraft. If several dozen Chimeras and several hundred 155mm systems could create a lot of problems, then what will happen when all of the above reaches the front?
    2. -2
      12 February 2023 21: 50
      Chervony Biker
      The article is illiterate. Just stupid google translate
  22. -2
    11 February 2023 12: 28
    A beautiful article, but as Vasily Ivanovich said in a well-known joke "there is a nuance", there will be no Ukrainian pilots, just as there were no Vietnamese ones, there will be American and European vacationers or mercenaries, as soon as our victory and the end of the war smell, and everything will be and planes and tanks, everything you need, show must go on
    1. -1
      12 February 2023 21: 49
      blackcat
      The article is illiterate. Just stupid google translate
  23. +3
    11 February 2023 13: 01
    We do not control the territory of the outskirts, so there will be no problems with the placement of a couple of dozen f-16s, also with pilots, they are now flying on treetops in rickety Soviet fighters. With secrets, too, we do not show downed dill planes, they fall on their territory. Only a mechanic near a lion will personally bring it for a certain amount, this is a problem for the Americans. They do not supply for only one reason the price of the issue, especially since dill is not in danger, why pay more. How many imaginary experts can be printed will not be delivered. This is not a miracle weapon, a starlink with self-propelled guns is much more dangerous and cheaper. Now there is a banal PR war, so as not to be forgotten with a mix of advertising.
  24. +4
    11 February 2023 13: 24
    First,
    brand new F-16 Vipers by Iraq

    Iraq has no Vipers. Viper is the 70th block, while Iraq has 50/52.

    Second. There is no point in discussing the use of aviation now. In the best case for Ukraine, the scheme is seen as follows.
    1. This year is the training of pilots, the appearance of the first squadron. Then, for several months, the solution of working issues - hunting for Caliber, strike missions on the limber by the managers in the low-hi-low mode, the main thing - working out aircraft maintenance and interaction with the air defense system in your sky.
    2. Next year, if there is a decision to escalate. Work with long-range cruise missiles (this requires long-range missiles proper) or systematic work against air defense and airborne forces in order to seize air supremacy and subsequently strike ground forces (this requires AWACS aircraft, either transferred to Ukraine, or actually NATO in the sky Ukraine, and, again, strikes deep into the territory of the Russian Federation at the places of concentration of aviation and long-range air defense systems).

    The second stage of the scheme has significance, but it is impossible without the first. Accordingly, if the decision on aircraft is positive, then in the year 24 such prospects are at least considered as an option.

    Well, or the Allies of Ukraine are acting irrationally. This is also possible.
  25. +2
    11 February 2023 13: 31
    Relax, since the F-16 issue has been raised, it means that pilots are already being trained or their own will be planted from the "mercenary" detachment. This is firewood for the furnace of war, which will be thrown when necessary.
    While the bridges across the Dnieper and on the western border of the Ukrainian Reich are intact, I consider this mess to be a showdown of transnational clans, nothing more.
    Blah blah about strong bridges - tell the falling geraniums, special forces units setting fire to fuel trucks and trains on the tracks, along which poplars then fall, with convection charges.
  26. +6
    11 February 2023 16: 17
    Attempts to compensate for losses with the help of Soviet MiG-29s and Su-27s from Bulgaria, Poland and Slovakia were unsuccessful,
    Note to the author: Su-27s were not supplied to any of the listed countries. Su-27 on the territory of the PPR (now Poland), during the time of the ATS, was in service with two regiments as part of the then 239th Fighter Aviation Baranovichi Red Banner Division. One of them was stationed in Klyuchevo, where I then served. And they were withdrawn to Russia after the collapse of the Department of Internal Affairs.
    1. +6
      11 February 2023 18: 42
      Yes, the author is completely unaware that the Su-27 was not supplied to Europe and there are no used aircraft of this type on the world arms market. Ukraine manages its own to this day.
      And from Klyuchevo, the Su-27 regiment seemed to have been withdrawn to Petrozavodsk. 159 regiment like.
      1. +1
        12 February 2023 03: 56
        Quote: Osipov9391
        And from Klyuchevo, the Su-27 regiment seemed to have been withdrawn to Petrozavodsk. 159 regiment like.

        The 159th Guards Fighter Aviation Novorossiysk Red Banner Order of Suvorov Regiment was withdrawn to Besovets.
  27. -4
    11 February 2023 17: 11
    I have never been a pilot, but I remembered one story when Turkish pilots were retrained for new equipment in the USA. Situation: five Turkish pilots are in the air. One of the pilots reports a problem. The flight director, having assessed the situation, gives the command: Turkish pilot, leave the car! All five left, for an order is an order. Bottom line: out of the blue, the loss of four perfectly serviceable cars. And this is in peacetime.
    1. +4
      12 February 2023 00: 33
      This is a story made up by someone who has no idea about the rules of radio traffic.
      Well, at least he didn’t tell the American pilot to leave the car, that would be funny ...
  28. -2
    11 February 2023 18: 46
    Yes, let them fly and land. The most unpleasant thing is that they will fly and run away from the airfields of the "brothers". What do our "Rublyov" figures have about the next "red lines"?
    1. +1
      11 February 2023 23: 57
      And why is Uzhgorod or Starokonstantinov bad? Good cover by Western air defense systems.
      They've been flying there for a year now.
      And I'm near the country where there is an infrastructure for servicing. What needs to be brought.
      1. +2
        12 February 2023 00: 33
        Quote: Osipov9391
        And why is Uzhgorod or Starokonstantinov bad?

        Uzhgorod is good, it is actually located in Slovakia. The downside is the city airport, and it is completely impossible to exclude arrivals. Similarly, Chernivtsi. Starokonstantinov is far away, vulnerable to the Iskanders from Belarus. I would choose Sambor to start with.
  29. -2
    11 February 2023 19: 02
    Oh well. Without going into fighters ... I drive by car, and my head works like a radar. Because rights are given to all sorts of sluts hi .And, like, a stuffing machine will protect them soldier .
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. +1
    11 February 2023 19: 24
    In general, it is not worth comparing the F-16 and MiG-29. In terms of equipment, these aircraft are incomparable. The American is good, but ours .... well, in general, against the background of the American, a complete zero. And dog dumps in the sky have not yet been seen.
    1. TIR
      +3
      11 February 2023 19: 33
      How many F-16s carry air-to-air missiles? How many times do you have to dodge to go to the dog dump. Then our advertised super maneuvers will bear fruit. And what a chance to dodge a rocket, I think the pilots will say. There is closer to zero chance. More often they leave the rocket. And given that an AWACS aircraft with a powerful radar will always hang in the air, we can say that it will not come to close maneuverable combat at all. Either the enemy will go back after the launch of the missiles, or ours. Advertising super-maneuverability is the same as boasting that our Zhiguli have an ashtray, but there is no Ferrari. Here you have everything laid out in facts
      1. +1
        11 February 2023 21: 13
        Quote: TIR
        given that an AWACS aircraft with a powerful radar will always hang in the air

        There is no decision yet on AWACS.
        1. +2
          12 February 2023 00: 02
          AWACS have been flying near the borders of Ukraine and over the Black Sea for a year now.
          Now the German AWACS on rotation fly from Bucharest airport. There are 3 or 4 of them, it seems from Germany
          thrown over.
          1. +3
            12 February 2023 00: 26
            Quote: Osipov9391
            AWACS have been flying near the borders of Ukraine and over the Black Sea for a year now.

            They see the coast of Crimea, but not the Donbass. AWACS also has a radio horizon.
            1. +2
              12 February 2023 03: 16
              Have you forgotten the Konya base in Turkey? From there, AWACS fly over the Black Sea towards Batumi.
              They see the entire Krasnodar Territory and adjacent water areas.
              1. +2
                12 February 2023 04: 53
                Quote: Osipov9391
                They see the entire Krasnodar Territory and adjacent water areas

                While we are talking about maintaining restrictions on the geography of NWO. If there is an expansion of geography, then by itself the entire water area of ​​the World Cup is closed.
                1. +3
                  12 February 2023 13: 23
                  This is still important for the Ukrainian air defense.
                  So, for example, the work of aviation from Krymsk and Primorsko-Akhtarsk is recorded by AWACS aircraft from the above area, then merges into Ukrainian headquarters. That they say such and such fly and so much in such and such a direction.
                  Species reconnaissance spacecraft are also involved in monitoring strategic aviation, missile launches from it and from ships.
                  1. 0
                    13 February 2023 06: 42
                    Primorsko-Akhtarsk is far away, you need to go into the corner northeast of the South Coast. It seems that they have not seen partners there yet. Ups, yes, apparently fix one way or another. Not necessarily a satellite.
        2. TIR
          +1
          12 February 2023 09: 11
          If there is no AWACS now, then it means that there is no need to calculate battles when they have AWACS in the sky? We already messed with this approach last spring in Ukraine. When they left the barracks-grass to the parade army
      2. +3
        12 February 2023 13: 05
        What's with the rockets? MiG-29 is blind in both eyes and deaf in both ears. Do you still believe in fairy tales about the beautiful Mig? So these are fairy tales. He flies well. But not for long. No one will fight him close. They'll hit him with a rocket, and he won't even see it.
  32. +1
    11 February 2023 19: 25
    Countless times the article says "in Ukraine".
    Since when did the preposition "v" in relation to Ukraine start up in the Russian language in Russia? Quite actively, since 2014, under the influence of the Russophobic rhetoric of the neighboring country, which seeks to change literally everything connected with Russia and the Russian language, then this infection began to stick to the language of some fellow citizens, primarily those oriented towards Western ideology.
    Russian has always been spoken before and now it is correct to say "in Ukraine".
    Saying "in", we involuntarily voice their ideology, their view. It's like a "friend/foe" marker.
    Speak correctly and in Russian!
    1. +1
      12 February 2023 00: 42
      Speak correctly and in Russian!

      The Russian language is great, powerful and unpredictable.
      Which is correct, "in Jamaica" or "in Jamaica"?
      https://jamaica.mid.ru/ru/
    2. TIR
      +1
      12 February 2023 09: 16
      "In" Ukraine is also the correct option. Only on move. They refused the Russian language, which means they cannot establish the norms of the Russian language in any way. If the text is in Russian, then you need to write "in" Ukraine. If the author writes "B" then this is simply an indicator of his illiteracy. We write "in Cuba" (the island and the state of Cuba), but not "in Cuba". In the same Polish language they write "in Ukraine". Also the norm of the language
    3. 0
      12 February 2023 13: 07
      Everyone is starting to become Ukrainized. The struggle of x o x l o v for a howl is winning.
  33. +5
    11 February 2023 20: 42
    Let's take a trip back into history. I hope no one has any doubts that the Soviet pilots of the Great Patriotic War "didn't finish the academies"? Educational level - at best ten years old, in most cases seven classes, flying club, aviation school. However, at the turn of 1941-1942, when the first Hurricanes and Tomahawks arrived from Great Britain, retraining took from 3 to 5 weeks. Then the retraining time was increased, but not because they could not master the controls. Aviapolk A. Pokryshkin, transferred to the "Aircobras", most of the time he learned not to fly on them, but carried out combat training, combat coordination.
    Similarly, the first air regiments on A-20 "Boston" bombers flew to the front after 3-4 weeks of training. Of course, this was not enough in terms of combat training, combat coordination, but there were no problems with retraining to control these bombers.
    Including very quickly mastered on Hurricanes, Tomahawks, Kittyhawks, Aircobras, Bostons and Mitchels differences in the gradation of instruments: fuel in gallons, altitude in feet, speed in miles, temperature in degrees Fahrenheit.
    The same story was with Lend-Lease tanks. For years, no one had to retrain.
    Now let's remember how other experts sneered through their lips that the Wehrmacht's coming out for six months, or even nine months, would have to learn how to handle 155-mm towed and self-propelled howitzers supplied from NATO. But it turned out that the crews trained in the handling of Soviet guns in a month and a half fully master the artillery systems of NATO models.
    Therefore, IMHO, training on the F-16 and other NATO-made aircraft, as well as on Leopards and Abrams, Bradleys and Marders, can happen much faster than expected. And hemorrhoids with this technique will be huge. They can do a lot of damage.
    Our aviation is now approaching the front line with caution, and if all sorts of F-16s, Rafalis, Mirages and other Tornadoes appear in commercial quantities in the air, then the situation will become even worse.
    There should be no hatred from the word at all. We already had teleexperts dancing in a crouch and pissing with delight in TV studios, in anticipation of the disposal of NATO artillery. However, for more than half a year, the shells of this artillery have been sowing death and destruction, and this artillery itself does not want to end. And it doesn't smell like recycling. One joy is that these "dancers" were kicked out of the asshole from the television studios, deprived of the bablosiks owed for participating in the talk show.
    1. +3
      12 February 2023 13: 10
      Here they will sing their songs for a long time. We ourselves have long been convinced that there are no problems to understand anything foreign. And it works even better than ours. Why should there be a problem with military equipment? It remains only the question of service and all.
  34. -3
    11 February 2023 20: 43
    Quote from vicvic
    Countless times the article says "in Ukraine".
    Since when did the preposition "v" in relation to Ukraine start up in the Russian language in Russia? Quite actively, since 2014, under the influence of the Russophobic rhetoric of the neighboring country, which seeks to change literally everything connected with Russia and the Russian language, then this infection began to stick to the language of some fellow citizens, primarily those oriented towards Western ideology.
    Russian has always been spoken before and now it is correct to say "in Ukraine".
    Saying "in", we involuntarily voice their ideology, their view. It's like a "friend/foe" marker.
    Speak correctly and in Russian!

    Better yet, instead of "in Ukraine" use the term "in a coming out-reich."
  35. -3
    11 February 2023 20: 47
    Quote: mmaxx
    In general, it is not worth comparing the F-16 and MiG-29. In terms of equipment, these aircraft are incomparable. The American is good, but ours .... well, in general, against the background of the American, a complete zero. And dog dumps in the sky have not yet been seen.

    Well, you shouldn't say so. Indian MiG-29s drove Pakistani F-16s in Kashmir well in the 16s. There were several skirmishes and could not oppose anything special to the "twenty-ninth" F-XNUMX.
    1. +1
      12 February 2023 01: 17
      Indian MiG-29s drove Pakistani F-16s in Kashmir well in the XNUMXs.

      At this time, there were no fights between F-16s and MiG-29s in Kashmir. And there were no downed F-16s, like MiG-29s.
      The F-16 collided with the MiG-29 in Yugoslavia and Iraq, but the conditions there were obviously unequal.
    2. +3
      12 February 2023 13: 12
      I'll tell you, but you don't get offended. Not a single MiG-29 in India has a radar. What can he drive there?
  36. 0
    11 February 2023 21: 17
    I think that the key question is how exactly the f-16 will be used. At the moment, Ukrainian aviation performs 2 functions - missile defense in the depths of its territory and strikes by NURS from a pitch-up in flight at low altitudes. Even despite such a regime of maximum risk reduction, military forces regularly lose aircraft. If the f-16s act similarly when working on ground targets, then this a) will not lead to a tangible increase in efficiency, because high-tech weapons will not be used and b) they will still have a comparable level of risks (EPR does not play a role for MANPADS, EPR from the back is not small enough not to catch a rocket on the way out). In fact, it will be a more expensive carrier of not the most effective weapon. It’s already better as a missile interceptor, but it will be dangerous to approach the border areas, and we don’t work on targets in the depths of the territory every day, and this is not the main potential threat to us, as they say.
    And if the Ukrainians try to use the strengths of f16? Those. air-to-surface missiles, incl. HARMs, UABs, long-range V-V missiles? The use of the former will require an increase in operating altitude - you cannot launch a rocket at 100 km from a strafing flight, this is not a cruise missile to fly according to a given algorithm with terrain envelope, and even more so UAB, they generally need to get closer to 25-40 km, only the most advanced can work at 80-90 km, but they must be dropped from a height of 10000+ meters. But it is precisely high altitudes that planes over Ukraine are afraid of!
    If we talk about the functions of air defense, then in order to work with VV f-16 missiles, they must turn on their radar, which means they must detect themselves for the enemy. With subsequent development on them themselves.
    One of the key elements in the NATO Air Force system is AWACS aircraft, which ensure the operation of strike aircraft and interceptors, allowing them to minimize the time of their "glow" on enemy radars. The Ukrainian Air Force will not have this element, which means that the effectiveness of the entire system will be several times less than that of NATO.
    1. +2
      11 February 2023 22: 26
      Quote from: Piton_KAA
      it means that the effectiveness of the entire system will be a multiple of NATO

      Bye yes.
      Quote from: Piton_KAA
      The Ukrainian Air Force will not have this element,

      Most likely it won't. This year.
      Quote from: Piton_KAA
      but they must be dropped from a height of 10000+ meters. But it is precisely high altitudes that planes over Ukraine are afraid of!

      Theoretically, subject to the operation of the S-400 from the entire territory of the Republic of Belarus, the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe Ukrainian sky safe for aviation is small, the Carpathians are closer to the Romanian border. In practice, Lukashenka can be asked to remove Russian air defense systems - ask in a good way or in a bad way. Then the western part of the country will be relatively safe for flights. In particular, fighters can be used as an ersatz-DRLO against the KR.

      As for the bombs, there is no need to invent anything, everything has already been invented. Bombs are thrown from a pitch-up "over the shoulder", jumping out briefly over the horizon. You can launch an air defense missile, but the plane leaves the illumination quite quickly. Of course, it happens that they relax too much, even among the Jews this happens. But from the point of view of tactics, the scheme is working.

      Quote from: Piton_KAA
      the question is how exactly the f-16 will be used

      What can the F-16 give out of the box.
      1. Hunting for the Black Sea Fleet, subject to the information support of the allies.
      2. The use of guided bombs on advanced positions. In particular, the destruction of bridges and railway nodes in the near zone. Inclusion in the "near zone" of Lugansk and the coast of Crimea.
      3. Assistance in the fight against the KR in the western part of the country.

      Which they can't do without extra work.

      1. Strategic strikes in the style of Libya 1986.
      2. War with the Aerospace Forces for air supremacy outside the air defense zone of Ukraine.
    2. -4
      11 February 2023 22: 43
      And who will prove that a Ukrainian will pilot an F-16 with an AIM-120 AMRAAM in an interception flight if they do not sell these missiles to either the Arabs or the Egyptians? Why do you think that the Americans are not afraid that the Ukrainian F-16 with weapons will overtake him to Russia, for big money by his standards? And the Balts began to be put in the Su-25 for sorties, but the results are deplorable.
      1. 0
        16 February 2023 14: 08
        If a Ukrainian for a lot of money and overtakes the F-16 c AIM-120D, then how can this immediately change the picture at the front? Does Russia still not have a working model of this missile? After all, Russia has had missiles with an active radar head for a long time. So what are Americans afraid of?
    3. 0
      12 February 2023 00: 07
      Most likely, these F-16s will strike ships and ground targets with the help of Harpoons, AGM-158, JSOW.
      These things have a huge range, far beyond the limits of air defense.
      On a tip, partners will be used.

      As for possible meetings with our fighters, it most likely will not come to that.
      Because the AWACS planes of the NATO countries continuously monitor the Crimea and Belarus.
  37. -1
    11 February 2023 22: 45
    Some points are controversial to say the least.
    The same _planning_ ABs need to be launched from the highest possible height (depending on conditions), where the carrier can easily reach the C300-400, and so on.
  38. 0
    12 February 2023 13: 25
    SVO has been running for almost a year now. How many people here believe that NATO waited with pilot training after the planes were delivered?
  39. -1
    12 February 2023 19: 49
    Well done Roman! Let's talk about "throttle valves" and "vertical tail"! About "crammed" - also bad. Thank you for the pleasure, Google translation - a special hello.
    1. 0
      12 February 2023 21: 43
      Yeah, and control-ce / control-ve hello huge! Superafftar! Just a patchwork!
  40. -1
    12 February 2023 21: 42
    Roman Skomorokhov once again gave out a bad computer translation of an article that he did not even bother to read carefully. What is a "throttle valve" on an airplane? A deuce with a huge minus to the author!
    The article is garbage. Doesn't match the title. Content is bullshit.
    For a year on the F-16, you can train a pilot for a one-way flight only
  41. -1
    12 February 2023 21: 47
    What to compare? If the authorities of the Russian Federation, by their co-operation, allow the use of NATO military aviation on the territory of Ukraine. Gentlemen from the authorities of the Russian Federation, issue a Law, which will say that the entire territory of Ukraine is an integral part of Russia. And everything will immediately fall into place. The authorities of the Russian Federation are terribly afraid to issue such a Law. But China is not afraid and it states in its law that Taiwan is the territory of China. In the People's Republic of China, people's power, and in the Russian Federation, comprador power.
    1. +1
      April 7 2023 22: 06
      Have you seen stacks of coffins wrapped in Stars and Stripes shit on a US transport? These are US generals returning to their homeland, I counted more than fifty coffins in the frame, and the loading has not yet ended.
  42. 0
    15 February 2023 17: 18
    Why is no one interested in the simplest question - strikes on airfields? Oh yes, we have no intelligence. There are few satellites, they are blind, and there are no long-range reconnaissance drones either. The entire agency was beaten out by the SBU. And the special forces and the MTR are storming the oporniki in the LDNR.
  43. 0
    16 February 2023 13: 52
    The ammunition of the complex, without a difference in air defense, needs to hit what type of aeroballistic target (with rare exceptions). The question is, for what "goblin" pilot of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will climb into the cockpit of an F-16 fighter ?!
  44. 0
    April 7 2023 22: 04
    Yeah, compared Patriot and Thor.
    Thor knocks down everything that just moves...
    What can not be said about the Patriot ...
  45. 0
    April 11 2023 00: 58
    What mig31 and R-37? Who will throw them at such targets as f16 ?? It's not a bomber jacket or an Avax.
    And forget about the R37 and Su-35, the R-27 at 110 km is our everything.
  46. 0
    April 20 2023 14: 08
    With the advent of medium (advanced) and long-range V-V missiles, the number of carriers and the number of AWACS aircraft matter ...
    So the F16 is a very successful fighter.
    1. TRD unified with F15
    2. The most massive fighter in pieces (respectively, the massive service infrastructure)
    3. Many options for upgrades and configurations from different countries.
    4. Initially good shock capabilities initially.
    5. Fresh versions are very perfect
  47. -1
    4 May 2023 17: 55
    This bird looks like a robot with human powers, that's all. That's artificial intelligence. Who are you man? You are stuffing for the jelly monster. That's all your development - to fly and kill people. That's your charm of life - to kill people. Why only you were made like this.