Su-30 vs. Mirage: Possible Opportunities

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Su-30 vs. Mirage: Possible Opportunities

Deliveries will be. And the Ukrainian Air Force will have at its disposal aviation NATO equipment, otherwise everything described here (Is it about tanks??) won't make any sense.

A war in the style of the First World War is a war of mutual destruction, nothing more. And in order to achieve certain goals and objectives, warfare is required in modern conditions. That is, not a stupid positional grinding of the enemy’s manpower and equipment in one place with the help of artillery and small arms, but a tactically mobile war that allows you to capture territories with minimal losses and the most intact in terms of infrastructure.



Ask yourself a question and try to answer it honestly: why do we need cities of ashes, in which there is neither a population nor conditions suitable for life and work? A total cleansing with the help of artillery can only give such results as in the same Mariupol. What is the use of Soledar or Bakhmut, wiped off the face of the earth, is a question for many to comprehend. But the fact is that there will be no benefit from these cities, except for injecting an abyss of money into them for “restoration”. Yes, as in Mariupol.

And in order for the cities to get relatively intact, a completely different approach is required than pounding on fortified areas in frontal attacks, as the Russian army is doing now (and, apparently, will continue to do).

We need a modern approach to the use of all types of troops, and we need the very use of these types, including the most modern ones. Ukrainians are beginning to demonstrate this, for whom the Americans and British think in European headquarters. And they are good at thinking. This means that, over time, it is expected that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will abandon the tactics of fighting on the level of the First World War and move on to the tactics of fighting under the full guidance of NATO experts, and even with NATO equipment and, most importantly, in my opinion, with NATO communications.

But in modern combat, all these breakthrough divisions, mobile lightly armored groups - they require clearing space for operational space. You can, of course, draw the Moon on the ground with artillery as much as you like, or you can use aviation. That's who will have the sky - he will be the master of the situation.

Now a certain parity has developed on the Russian-NATO front: the Ukrainian Air Force and the Russian Aerospace Forces cannot portray anything, being bound by the work of air defense systems. But in any case, this picture will have to change. And the military command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is trying with all its might to do this. Get aircraft in every possible way and train crews, then minimize losses from Russian cruise missiles and Iranian drones, and subsequently - to provide the greatest possible support to their advancing troops. Everything is pretty logical.

And here the $100 million allocated by the Pentagon for the retraining of Ukrainian pilots and the training bases in the UK where they are trained look very normal. It is believed that three months is enough for a pilot of 2-3 class to master the F-16 at a basic level, and retraining of pilots of a higher class will take even less time.

F-16


And where to get fighters is also not a question. Representatives of the well-known company Lockheed Martin have already stated that if any NATO countries decide to transfer the same F-16s to Ukraine, then Lockheed Martin will replace it as a priority, for which it will quite calmly increase the production of aircraft.

And there, in the management of the corporation, they already see a solution to the problem of servicing equipment. This can be done by the so-called "civilian specialists" from countries that operate American aircraft at bases in Poland. Why not? There you can also retrain and retrain the crews as much as necessary in time, practicing simple tactics to intercept our missiles in the central and western regions of Ukraine, then there will be flights in the “air defense zones”, where air battles will make it difficult for us to Western air defense systems, and only then and front-line operations to provide cover for their troops.

There are many countries in the world that will be happy to give away their old Falcons in exchange for new ones or, alternatively, for advancement in the queue for the F-35. The same Denmark, the Netherlands, Greece, Norway ...

Mirage 2000


France stands apart, which has already been noted for generous deliveries of ground equipment for the Armed Forces of Ukraine (Caesar self-propelled guns, TRF1 towed howitzers, LRU MLRS, Crotal air defense systems, and plus the promise of wheeled tanks AMX-10 RC), then the interests of the French military go further. It is clear that the Ukrainians will not see the Rafale, the French Air Force needs the Rafale. But the Mirage 2000, about three hundred of which are still serving in the Air Force of the republic (plus another hundred and a half around the world), is quite suitable for the role of a generous gift.


It's not just that France is traditionally considered one of the leaders in the aviation industry. War in general is an excellent occasion to write off old aircraft and load them with orders for new military factories. And the French authorities illustrate this in the best way with their policy, because the Mirages have not been produced for a long time and are withdrawn from the French Air Force, being replaced by the Rafali.

Officially, the country's government has already stated that the "Rafale" does not shine for Ukraine, but the "Mirage" ... The French media say that negotiations are already underway. So in general, this is a solution to a number of issues at once: political points as fighters for everything good against everything bad, getting rid of old equipment and loading, as mentioned above, their enterprises. That is - good money.


So, the Mirage 2000 has every chance to be in the sky of Ukraine. It is worth considering this issue through the Russian sight. After all, if this happens, then it cannot be said that it will be an easy walk, although France is well aware of the capabilities of Russian air defense systems and combat aircraft.

Especially aircraft, and here's why. If the Mirage does not show its strong side, it can easily be attributed to the terrible and effective Russian air defense systems and aircraft of a completely different class than the Mirage 2000.

But this is reality.

In general, the Mirage 2000 is a light aircraft, on the same platform as the MiG-29. But the MiG-29 is gradually being withdrawn from the VKS, so the chance to meet classmates is very small. But the subsequent incarnations of the Su-27, of which the Russian Aerospace Forces are today, are very easy. The same Su-30.

Why "thirty"? Well, simply because this aircraft can most often be found in the NVO zone as a fighter.


"Mirage" as a plane is very good. Being “only” half as light, it can carry only 2 tons less ammunition than the Su-30.


In general, despite the long history "Mirage" 2000, he met with the Su-30 only in theoretical and training battles held in the east. That is, in the Indian Air Force, where both fighters are in service, moreover, the Su-30 is in such quantities, twice the number in the Russian Aerospace Forces.

The Indians have studied both aircraft quite closely, and based on their findings, we can make certain predictions in the event that French aircraft appear in the sky of Ukraine.

Speaking about the technical characteristics of aircraft and their combat capabilities, first of all, it is worth considering not so much the performance characteristics of aircraft as the very concept of application, which is determined by the concept of creating the aircraft in question. And a pair of Mirage 2000 and Su-30 may turn out to be fundamentally different, like, for example, the Su-25 and Tornado.

So the concept


The Su-30 retained and multiplied all the characteristics of its progenitor, the Su-27, which became our first fighter to gain air superiority. Aircraft belong to the class of heavy fighters, that is - a large mass, two engines, additional survivability, range, the ability to take more weapons.


But the main feature of the Su-27/Su-30 is the ability of autonomous combat use, the solution of strike missions in the complete absence of target designation and orientation from ground control centers. Including - and in the depths of enemy territory.

The Mirage 2000 is a classic light fighter. It is intended for use as an air defense fighter, mainly using information channels from ground control centers. Naturally, he has a much smaller combat radius and a smaller supply of weapons.

But the main feature and at the same time weakness lies precisely in the fact that the Mirage is very weak in terms of operations at considerable distances from target designation centers and airfields.

That is, it is somewhat incorrect to initially compare the Mirage and the Su-30, since the aircraft initially belong to fighters of a different class and they have their own areas of practical application. This, by the way, is taken into account by potential buyers. The same Indians quite calmly purchased both the Su-30MKI and the Mirage 2000 for their Air Force. And for each of the aircraft in the concept of the Indian Air Force, there was a place.

The main factors in assessing the level of technical and combat capabilities of aircraft are flight performance, a set of on-board electronic equipment and a set of weapons.

The performance characteristics of the Su-30, due to the level of aerodynamic quality (which is typical of all aircraft of the Su-27 family), stands out among the world's fighter aircraft. Engines with deflectable thrust vectors make it possible to perform figures to which such a concept as “super-maneuverability” is applicable, useful in combat missions.

The aerodynamics of the Mirage 2000 is much more modest, although this aircraft, made according to the tailless scheme traditional for French fighters, is distinguished by high aerodynamic characteristics at supersonic speeds. And the speed of the French fighter is slightly higher than that of the Russian one. 200 km / h is a decent difference, especially if you need to catch up with someone or quickly escape from someone. But the Mirage does not have engines with a deflectable thrust vector, which, of course, does not provide such opportunities as the Su-30.

But the mechanization of the wing of the French fighter, thanks to large elevons and internal flaps for pitch control, allows the Mirage to abruptly switch from horizontal to vertical flight. This somewhat levels out the superiority of the Su-30 in terms of maneuverability, but not to the extent that one could say that the aircraft could be equal in air combat.

What does approximately equal speed values ​​mean for aircraft? This is the same time to reach the missile launch line.


When solving problems of intercepting air targets, this is a very important point. However, range is equally important. The Su-30, which has a range of 40% more than the Mirage, is quite capable of patrolling the territory of almost any country (except, perhaps, Russia), covering the objects located on it. And the presence of an operator who controls weapons systems increases the capabilities in combat, since it does not distract the pilot from performing his duties.

So if the Mirage looks normal in the form of an air defense fighter “take off-catch-kill”, then the Su-30 is able to “hang” for quite a long time, covering a certain area, which gives advantages in repelling suddenly appeared targets. Oddly enough, our AL-31FP engine is more economical than the French M.53-R2. And the fact that the Su-30 has two such engines does not worsen the situation at all.


In general, one can talk a lot about engines, but suffice it to say that the AL-31FP is more stable in terms of gas dynamics. It allows the aircraft to fly tail-first for some time, while performing figures that French aircraft did not dream of. Yes, the same "somersault", like the "bell" can not always be used in combat, but here it's just as an indicator of the capabilities of the engines.

If you look at the use of aircraft as strike aircraft, it is obvious that 8 (and in overload 10) tons of the Su-30 combat load is much more effective than 6 tons for the Mirage. With what speed these tons will be delivered to the shooting line is not so important, but the range here is of great importance.

Separately, about the radar. Whatever experts criticizing Russian radio electronics say, it is a fact that the Su-30 radar is superior to the Mirage radar. And, if when working on ground targets, radars are basically the same in terms of capabilities, then when working on air targets, the Russian locator is more effective, since it is 20 years younger than the French one. Plus, on the side of the Russian aircraft, the presence of OLS - an optical-location station that provides search, detection, capture and automatic tracking of air targets, as well as determining their coordinates and range. The Mirage does not have such useful equipment on board.

If you look closely, then OLS is not a guarantee of victory, however, how to look. Due to the use of OLS, the target acquisition time was reduced, and the accuracy of firing from a cannon was higher. Small change? But it can be very expensive, and indeed, there are no trifles in air combat.

For actions on ground targets on the Su-30 and Mirage 2000 (not all, but only the 2000-5 modification), optical-electronic surveillance and sighting systems of container design are used, which have similar characteristics. This once again confirms that the Mirage can work no worse than the Su-30 on ground targets.


More about weapons


In terms of quantity, the advantage, of course, is for the Su-30. 12 suspension points versus 9 for Mirage. Quality… The fact that the Russian R-73 short-range air-to-air missile is far superior to the similar French K.550 missile both in target designation angles and in maneuverability. Long-range R-37 missiles also have a significant advantage over similar Super Matra missiles.

We can say that the guided / corrected bomb weapons are better with the French and this will not be a departure from the truth. But bomb weapons are very narrowly focused weapon, and the range of application of these aircraft involves solving a wider range of tasks than bombing ground targets.

Assessing the quality of combat aircraft, we can say with confidence that the Su-30 has a much greater strike potential than the Mirage. When solving strike missions, the greatest strengths of the Russian aircraft compared to the French are a larger tactical radius, increased combat load and better survivability, which determine its overwhelming superiority.

The Su-30 is a versatile aircraft, suitable, as the initial phase of the SVO showed, for solving a variety of tasks. It can serve as a reconnaissance aircraft, an anti-radar warfare aircraft, an air guidance point, a fighter to gain dominance, and so on.

"Mirage" can be used mainly in solving air defense tasks in the near zone and, possibly, to destroy ground targets that are poorly protected by air defense systems.


In addition, do not forget that the Mirage 2000 is not the most common aircraft in the world. And, unfortunately, among the operators there are no countries capable of providing proper service to the Mirages that ended up in the Ukrainian Air Force. Greece, India, Taiwan, the Emirates are not the countries where you can hire technical personnel. Only France remains.

In this regard, the same F-16 looks much more preferable, since operating countries such as Poland, Denmark, Belgium will be able to provide repair and maintenance of aircraft donated to Ukraine. As they say - the whole world.

Whether France will be able to provide maintenance for at least a hundred aircraft that ended up on the other side of Europe is another question. Most likely, somehow, but it can. Due to all sorts of "voluntary assistants" there.

Another question is that the Mirage 2000 is a very good aircraft for its time, but today it is frankly not suitable to withstand Russian aircraft. Yes, if we, like the Ukrainian Air Force, were armed with the old Su-27 and MiG-29, there would be no conversation, the Mirage would be in the court. But today, with all the discord in the Russian army, in aviation, the state of affairs is not so bad.

Therefore, if we talk about the fact that the Mirages will become worthy rivals, it is not necessary. However, it is better to have Mirages than to have nothing. It is a fact. But this worthy, but outdated aircraft will not win a victory. Do not delude yourself there, in Kyiv. Paris makes money, nothing more.
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  1. +15
    February 7 2023
    There will be no air battles. Everything will be like on earth. Air defense will enter the forefront of the battle for air and air defense will be of decisive importance. Neither our Air Force nor NATO will be allowed to use the Air Force’s potential as the author described. .This will be the battle for the sky.
  2. -6
    February 7 2023
    Ask yourself a question and try to answer it honestly: why do we need cities of ashes, in which there is neither a population nor conditions suitable for life and work?

    Ask yourself a question and try to answer it honestly: why do we need cities in which the bulk of the buildings were destroyed, and the infrastructure of the Soviet period, the dullness and primitiveness of architecture make them look alike? Wouldn't it be better to build fairy-tale cities using new technologies, taking into account all the requirements and nuances of the time. If there are no surviving historical buildings in the city, why fence the garden?
    * * *
    Today, an air duel is not the main tactic. In the confrontation between two aircraft, important properties are: a modern radar with a larger detection radius; long-range air-to-air missiles that allow you to attack the enemy without entering the zone of destruction of his missiles; training, combat experience and skill of the pilot ...Perhaps, in some specific cases, stealth and the presence of an aircraft gun will play a role ...
    Here's an example:

    Ground-based air defense systems also play a role in the overall victory.
    1. +35
      February 7 2023
      Captivating moods are always harmful, especially if they are based on ridiculous and incorrect comparisons.
      There were already songs about our powerful forty-year-old "aircraft carrier killers" from the USSR, until it turned out that without modernization of the RRC, Moscow was not combat-ready and was simply a target not only for NATO fleets, but also for a country without a fleet like Ukraine.
      It was funny from the sight of the Hymers, until it turned out that the once first country in the world in terms of MLRS, having not done anything in this area for 30 years, lost its leadership long ago and thanks to the Hymers, our troops left Kherson and half of the Kherson region, which recently became part of the Russian Federation.

      All these controllable thrust vectors are good for air shows and have long been tested by the Americans, but they have long realized that modern air combat is a bunch of AWACS aircraft + stealth fighter + long-range explosive class missile. They also tested this tactic in Yugoslavia, where the pilots of the then modern MiG-29s simply could not detect the F-15s flying at extremely low altitude with the radar turned off, which were aimed at targets and given out by the AWACS aircraft.

      If in our country over the past 20 years at least someone has been engaged in the real development of the Air Force, then they would have long ago built AWACS aircraft for cheap on the basis of several dozen Tu-204s in storage, they would have ordered a couple of hundred Su-57s for the Air Force, hundreds of three Su -30SM-2, an additional four hundred Su-30M unified with the Su-35 and six hundred brought to mind MiG-35 with AFAR Zhuk-A and would have worked out the interaction of AWACS aircraft + Su-57 / Su-35 / Su-34 / Su -30SM / MiG-35 + anti-radar and long-range air-to-air missiles, and even if they actively worked out these interactions in real exercises, including with counteraction to electronic warfare, then Ukraine would have had neither air defense nor air force for a long time and our aircraft weapons, ammunition and replenishment would simply not reach the LBS and the NWO would have ended long ago in the rear of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and would have freely operated in the rear of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
      If at least one of those mediocrity who wipe their pants in the Moscow Region would create UAV units, including strike and reconnaissance ones, formulate requirements for such UAVs based on our and foreign experience and order them in our military-industrial complex, then it would be even more accelerated our victory in the NWO and saved tens of thousands of lives of our soldiers. If we had at least a thousand UAVs of the Inohodets type, they could effectively detect and destroy ambushes on our columns, enemy columns, enemy armored vehicles and artillery, its warehouses and headquarters in the immediate rear.

      But alas and ah, we again sing, flooding with a nightingale like our VKS, unable even now to suppress enemy air defense and the Air Force will also manage to shoot down quite modern and dangerous Mirages. It's amazing!
      1. +2
        February 7 2023
        Quote: ramzay21
        All these controllable thrust vectors are good for air shows and have long been tested by the Americans, but they have long realized that modern air combat is a bunch of AWACS aircraft + stealth fighter + long-range explosive class missile. They also tested this tactic in Yugoslavia, where the pilots of the then modern MiG-29s simply could not detect the F-15s flying at extremely low altitude with the radar turned off, which were aimed at targets and given out by the AWACS aircraft.

        Ahem ... actually, this tactic was successfully used seventeen years before Yugoslavia in the next clash of two Middle Eastern states. The key to the success of this tactic is the absence of AWACS aircraft in the enemy and the early suppression / destruction of advanced OVTs radars.
        That war was generally indicative: the opening and "tearing" of the air defense system with the help of UAVs and decoys, anti-radar ground-to-ground missiles, the widespread use of electronic warfare to suppress air defense control channels (primarily - control and guidance of fighter aircraft).
        Quote: ramzay21
        If in our country over the past 20 years at least someone was engaged in the real development of the Air Force, then they would have long ago built AWACS aircraft for inexpensively on the basis of several dozen Tu-204s in storage

        Uh-huh ... and it would have degenerated into another long-term construction of the A-100 type. And it's not even about the notorious drank rollbacks, but about the element base and EM compatibility problems.
        Quote: ramzay21
        would order for the Air Force a couple of hundred Su-57s, three hundred Su-30SM-2s, an additional four hundred Su-30Ms unified with the Su-35 and six hundred MiG-35s brought to mind with AFAR Zhuk-A

        With a contract deadline of 2050. For drying, we have two plants - IAZ with KnAAZ (each makes its own model of the family), and in an instant - one. And I am not yet considering where to get the engines and avionics for this armada.
        1. +3
          February 7 2023
          Quote: Alexey RA
          and it would have degenerated into another long-term construction of the A-100 type.

          Klimov proposed an interesting idea. Install 1-2 Irbis on the same Tu-204. You can use serial equipment and finished aircraft with relatively minor modifications. There will be something like P-8 Poseidon, Irbis has more than sufficient characteristics.
          1. +2
            February 7 2023
            for lack of stamps they write in simple
          2. 0
            February 8 2023
            Quote from cold wind
            Klimov proposed an interesting idea. Install 1-2 Irbis on the same Tu-204

            will not work.
            AN/APS-137D(V)5 Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR) with 50 kW pulse power.
            + According to his data, electro-optical systems (L-3 Wescam MX-20HD) align and allow for an additional form of identification.
            SeaVue XMC (eXpanded Mission Capability) - an electronic intelligence system must be installed
            a gyro-stabilized digital optoelectronic station L-3 Wescam MX-20HD must be placed on a retractable turret
            ESM AN/ALQ-240(V)1 too and connect everything


            H035 "Irbis" will not pull.
            - it has a decent range for air targets, but not ground targets. And even then on the oncoming ones (Doppler selection)
            - four-channel receiver
            - it will be expensive, it is still very narrow and "compacted" for placement in a fighter. For "Poseidons" this is not necessary.
            + the drive will have to be recycled (need 360)
            - there are vague rumors that the time to failure is small ...
            And where can I get these extra Tu-204s?
        2. +1
          February 8 2023
          Ahem ... actually, this tactic was successfully used seventeen years before Yugoslavia in the next clash of two Middle Eastern states.

          This tactic continues to be relevant even now, and nothing more modern and effective in the Air Force yet exists.
          The key to the success of this tactic is the enemy’s lack of AWACS aircraft and the early suppression / destruction of advanced OVTs radars.

          The key to the success of such tactics is the presence or absence of AWACS aircraft, modern fifth-generation fighters and long-range missiles. And if both opponents have all this, then the one who has these components better and who has more professional crews will win, it all comes down to the banal to detect-give out the control center-launch the rocket and the one who first detects and launches the rocket will win.
          Therefore, it cannot be considered a modern Air Force without AWACS aircraft and a fifth-generation mass fighter.
          Uh-huh ... and it would have degenerated into another long-term construction of the A-100 type. And it's not even about the notorious drank rollbacks, but about the element base and EM compatibility problems.

          The A-100 has become a long-term construction because there is an acute shortage of new Il-76MD-90s and there are no adequate requirements of the Moscow Region itself for the AWACS aircraft. In general, in our military-industrial complex there are modern ready-made aviation radars, there are their developers, there is only no will and decisions on this issue. And it’s realistic to do so for the inexpensively required number of AWACS aircraft in our country.
          With a contract deadline of 2050. For drying, we have two plants - IAZ with KnAAZ (each makes its own model of the family), and in an instant - one. And I am not yet considering where to get the engines and avionics for this armada.

          There is no need to belittle the capabilities of our factories, IAZ, KnAAZ and NAZ are able to bring the total production of Su-57, Su-30SM2 and Su-34M to 50-60 units per year, but this requires a long-term contract for 20 years and not the current swing then we produce, we don't produce.
          As for the MiG-35, let me remind you that the same plant was able to produce 10 MiG-1500s in 29 years and it is quite possible for it to produce 50-60 MiG-35s per year, but again, will and a firm contract for years are needed. 20.
          In addition to all this, it is necessary to start building airfields with protective hangars for each aircraft throughout the country, open flight and aviation schools closed by Serdyukov and increase enrollment in existing
        3. 0
          February 10 2023
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Ahem ... actually, this tactic was successfully used seventeen years before Yugoslavia in the next clash of two Middle Eastern states. The key to the success of this tactic is the absence of AWACS aircraft in the enemy and the early suppression / destruction of advanced OVTs radars.
          That war was generally indicative: the opening and "tearing" of the air defense system with the help of UAVs and decoys, anti-radar ground-to-ground missiles, the widespread use of electronic warfare to suppress air defense control channels (primarily - control and guidance of fighter aircraft).

          And what does all this have to do with the NVO and air defense of Ukraine?
      2. +1
        February 7 2023
        "All thrust vectors" were tested by the Americans ... and taken into use in the 5th generation aircraft F-22. Do you also understand the difference between striking an enemy ship and the ship's air defense system? Or does it matter to you? Well, you solve problems in Chapaev's way. And why be trifle. Why only a couple of hundred Su-57s. Let's go a thousand. And what for do you need a MiG-35 with AFAR BEETLE? You are aware that AFAR Zhuk-A could not detect the target at the required distance, and the engines also did not give the design power. That is why India abandoned the MiG-35, and the RF Ministry of Defense ordered only 6 aircraft and not the Afar ZhUK A, but presumably with the ZhUK M. And the likelihood that there will be orders for the MiG-35 from the RF Ministry of Defense is extremely small.
        1. 0
          February 8 2023
          Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
          "All thrust vectors" were tested by the Americans ... and taken into use in the 5th generation aircraft F-22. Do you also understand the difference between striking an enemy ship and the ship's air defense system? Or does it matter to you? Well, you solve problems in Chapaev's way. And why be trifle. Why only a couple of hundred Su-57s. Let's go a thousand. And what for do you need a MiG-35 with AFAR BEETLE? You are aware that AFAR Zhuk-A could not detect the target at the required distance, and the engines also did not give the design power. That is why India abandoned the MiG-35, and the RF Ministry of Defense ordered only 6 aircraft and not the Afar ZhUK A, but presumably with the ZhUK M. And the likelihood that there will be orders for the MiG-35 from the RF Ministry of Defense is extremely small.


          No need for dirt about the MiG-35 !!! I couldn’t at the required distance, because I found it at a much larger one. This is in-1. Secondly, the engines also did not give the design power, as they gave the power much higher than the design one. India slowed down, only because the car was not in service with us. It's at 2. And the last thing, the fact that the Moscow Region is full of "competent" idiots no longer needs to be proven to anyone, and who, instead of adopting the MiG-3 with AFAR, and which should have long been the main MFI for the Aerospace Forces and the Russian Navy, were kissed on the ass outdated "mastodon zoo" dry with backward avionics. And now everyone is running around, as if with a written bag with this "zoo", trying to convince everyone that it is better than the Mirages and other US and NATO aircraft.
        2. 0
          February 10 2023
          Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
          "All thrust vectors" were tested by the Americans ... and taken into use in the 5th generation F-22 aircraft

          In this case, the nozzles of the F-22 engines are deflected only for pitch control.
      3. -3
        February 7 2023
        Quote: ramzay21
        Captivating moods are always harmful, especially if they are based on ridiculous and incorrect comparisons.

        Did you send it to me? I can throw poop ... About hats - this is not for me.
        Everything that I have written is taken from various review articles of the VO website.
        An example of a fight between Mig and F-16 is given in order to show that in skillful hands even horseradish is a balalaika, and in inept high-tech equipment it is a piece of iron.
        My expectations are more pessimistic, because I see that there is no stimulation of the authorities for production ... The ruble is cheaper than the dollar and even the hryvnia ...
        Designed for the stupid sale of raw materials ...
        1. 0
          February 8 2023
          Did you send it to me? I can throw poop ... About hats - this is not for me

          This is what I wrote to the author. And I agree with you on this topic.
      4. +8
        February 7 2023
        And why did you have to do it. Our Telegram blogger "iPhone" "successfully" developed ANAS technologies together with Chubais. The money was invested in the sea, evaporated into his pockets.
      5. +1
        February 8 2023
        As for the MLRS and UAVs, I agree with you. But the "air army" you drew is of course fabulous! Not only is it motley, it is also absolutely fantastic for our budget. And most importantly - meaningless against an enemy with a developed layered air defense. We could try to solve the problem if we had a dozen River Point-type electronic intelligence officers (ensuring their constant patrolling along the line of contact), as well as several thousand UAVs (you mentioned this) reconnaissance and strike kamikaze. Our failure in suppressing air defense is difficult to explain somehow, unfortunately. And you can’t hide behind a flaw in intelligence - they were well aware of the scale and composition of the enemy’s air defense, these are not surprises in the form of instructors and fortified areas that suddenly appeared. Were we betting on a breakthrough, bombarding the enemy with the bodies of our pilots and non-ferrous scrap? And now the enemy is ready to exchange one captured pilot for only 45 "Azov" (according to Fighterbomber insider). I will not "brew compote", but there are no good words here.
      6. +3
        February 8 2023
        Everything is true and there is nothing to argue with. Unless I add that guided bombs are a critical technology for destroying enemy infrastructure such as bridges, which we naturally do not have.
        In general, it’s funny to see that our Defense Ministry has completely relied on the wrong technologies (although it didn’t rely on technology at all, but on the fact that we have Yao and therefore we won’t have to fight with anyone) and now we don’t have anything that is really effective: drills, satellites, guided bombs and high-precision long-range artillery, drones, thermal imagers, all of us are either missing or in their infancy. But there is an engine with a deflectable thrust vector, which is not clear why it is needed at all ...
        True, we have chic sniper rifles, which you CAN fundamentally not buy, because this is not their office.
        You know, there is a very thin line between idiocy and betrayal in a war ... maybe someday these people will still be held accountable
    2. -1
      February 7 2023
      Here's an example:

      So-so example. No one saw the downed F-16 then.
      1. +1
        February 7 2023
        Quote from solar
        Here's an example:

        So-so example. No one saw the downed F-16 then.

        Pakistan then showed all of its F-16s intact. So this is a fake, like the fact that the F-16 shot down the Su-30 according to Pakistan.
    3. +2
      February 7 2023
      Quote: ROSS 42

      Ask yourself a question and try to answer it honestly: why do we need cities in which the bulk of the buildings were destroyed, and the infrastructure of the Soviet period, the dullness and primitiveness of architecture make them look alike? Isn't it better to build fairy-tale cities using new technologies, taking into account

      So the author says that it is necessary to fight differently - without destroying the city. As for - "to build fairy tale cities" - of course you are right. But ... And you ask the inhabitants of the destroyed cities of Donbass - do they want to be left without a roof over their heads in order to wait for this very roof to be received in a fairy-tale city? You have to live somewhere today.
      All of us, and the author too, understand that today the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation cannot, due to their small number, carry out operations to encircle cities and leave them in the rear of the advancing troops. To force the enemy to surrender the city without destroying it.
      To conduct such operations, it is necessary to at least double the grouping of our troops.
      1. 0
        February 8 2023
        The most obvious, but, for some reason, stubbornly ignored by blitzkrieg adherents, remark. Any environment is a stretching of the front line. Even a small Artyomovsk - 25 km along the perimeter, how much is assigned to such a front according to the charter of strength?
        In addition, the environment implies a high speed of advancement deep into the enemy. This means that the forward units will operate even on the rear, menek fortified, units, but without significant art. support, incurring additional losses.
        In the conditions of modern warfare, when the enemy will have communication at the very least, there will be copters for reconnaissance and target designation, there will be means of fire destruction, including heavy equipment, there is a problem of increasing losses, with complicated evacuation of the wounded and wrecked equipment.
        Is there an understanding that the growth of our losses will be offset by a tangible increase in the losses of the enemy?
        The example of Mariupol suggests that on the other side they are not ready to lift their paws into the sky, these surrounded hearths will hold on and fetter our forces. And eventually the cities will have to be destroyed.
        As a result, we are the same ruined cities, killed ukrov, but also our increased losses.
        Well, let's say we take the cities, and Zaporizhia, and Kherson, and Kharkov with Sums to the heap. And what will we do with them? How do we rebuild so many cities in a reasonable amount of time? How do we provide infrastructure? Light, heat, water in the destroyed cities.
        Again, if by taking these cities we achieve our goals, we are overthrown, the West will retreat and negotiate on our terms - well, no question, we must attack.
        And if not? We will get destroyed cities and just a new front line.

        Here the question is much more complicated, it is not in a computer game to repaint the map. Probably, victory is achieved by somewhat different methods, it may well be that by exhaustion, but exhaustion can also be done near Artyomovsk.

        I clearly understand that there are a lot of errors in the NWO, and in general in the development of the army and navy. But I do not believe that at the top there is no plan and understanding of how to go to victory.
        1. 0
          February 8 2023
          Quote from: Piton_KAA
          enemy. This means that the forward units will operate even on the rear, menek fortified, units, but without significant art. support, incurring additional losses.

          You didn't read my post carefully. Let me remind you -
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk

          To conduct such operations, it is necessary to at least double the grouping of our troops.

          Doubling it does not mean only increasing the number of motorized infantry.
          Quote: Pito these encircled hearths will hold out and tie down our forces. And,[/quote

          So for this, the grouping of our troops is increasing.
          In general, your counter-arguments do not count because they are not argued in any way. hi

          [quote = Piton_KAA] I clearly understand that there are a lot of errors in CBO,

          To make such assessments, you need to know a lot of things. They retreated from the Kyiv and Chernigov regions. is this an error in the planning of the operation, or a political move? Quite possibly a mistake. We don't know this for sure.
          1. +1
            February 8 2023
            No matter how a simple increase in numbers turns out to be useless here - the number of self-propelled guns capable of firing at long distances is generally not as large as we would like. In such operations, the role of aviation as a "long arm" will certainly increase, but with a proportional risk of its losses.

            As for leaving areas. I completely agree, maybe a miscalculation, maybe a political decision. Or maybe it was a kind of bet on an unlikely, but still option. Those. admitted that it would not work, maybe they assumed that it would not work, but even an insignificant chance of success was a weighty argument for the implementation of such a scenario. Like in poker, you go into a hand with a bad hand where your opponents went all-in. Mathematically, the chance is 5%, but if it works, you won the hand, and if not, you still have a lot of money in your account to accept the loss and continue playing for the long game.
  3. +1
    February 7 2023
    Therefore, if we talk about the fact that the Mirages will become worthy rivals, it is not necessary.

    An old song about useless NATO technology ... Nothing new, propaganda, propaganda and again propaganda
    We already wrote about hymers, there was an article about a4 cardboard leopards yesterday, today about a bad mirage
    1. -5
      February 7 2023
      Quote from: User_neydobniu
      We already wrote about hymers, there was an article about a4 cardboard leopards yesterday, today about a bad mirage

      So what did they write? How is the Mirage fundamentally different from the Ukrainian 27s and 29s? How much did these cars help the ukram? That is it...
      1. 0
        February 8 2023
        Ukrainians, in any case, fly on old technology, they know that there may be a last flight, but they fly. Ours flew up to the front line and NARs from the hill and that's it. Calibers are launched only during the day, and why not at night.
    2. -1
      February 7 2023
      An old song about useless NATO technology ... Nothing new, propaganda, propaganda and again propaganda
      We already wrote about hymers, there was an article about a4 cardboard leopards yesterday, today about a bad mirage

      well, don't lie. Firstly, there were no words about "useless" technology anywhere. The article only states that the Mirage will be inferior to the Su-30MKI in terms of the totality of its capabilities. Taking into account the fact that both of them will operate in conditions of insufficient information awareness of the battlefield, then it is necessary to compare the direct performance characteristics of the aircraft. And here I agree more with the conclusion of the author than vice versa.
      And yes, don't lie about Leopards either. There he himself explained the author - he only sought to debunk the myth of the superiority of German MBTs. He did not throw any hats on anyone
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +5
            February 7 2023
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            And "Kyiv in three days" from ukrotsipsoids and Amer's laying was only heard.


            in fairness February 5, 2022 The head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States, General Mark Milley. It was he who, at closed meetings, predicted losses during the storming of Kyiv, which, in his opinion, should be 15 units from the Ukrainian side, and 000 from the Russian side.

            https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-says-kyiv-could-fall-within-72-hours-if-russia-decides-to-invade-ukraine-sources

            But Simonyan also predicted:
            https://youtu.be/UVpnnVrpG60

            =============================
            Vice-President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, Captain It seems to be (but this is not certain) Vice-President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, captain of the first rank of the reserve Konstantin Sivkov in 2014 believed that no one would put up much resistance to "polite people". In the morning, the brave guys on the "Tigers" will come and quietly arrange everything. Well, in the evening, the parade and the concert of Gazmanov.
            1. +1
              February 7 2023
              It's not about who predicted what, but about the fact that there was no boasting about three days, from the Moscow Region for sure, but about these "three days" tsipsoids and brothers in reason insert into the topic and not into the topic.
              1. 0
                February 8 2023
                For some reason, you can only answer me 5 times a day ....
                but about the fact that there was no boasting about three days, from the Moscow Region for sure

                so the opponent did not say that it was "MO said"
                You then
                ukrotsipsoids and Amer's bedding were all that could be heard.


                Although .... 24.04.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX the ex-head of intelligence of the Ministry of Defense grouping in Chechnya, retired Major General Sergei Kanchukov spoke out
                and the captain of the first rank of the reserve Konstantin Sivkov literally
                This requires people who are ready to fight, and not a few people who shoot and run away. If there is resistance, I don't think it will be very strong. It is possible that there will be problems when overcoming the canals and ditches that have been dug there, but even then, I think, they will simply be bypassed. Therefore, for a day or two, maximum for two or three day the Russian army will be able to reach Kyiv

                https://vz.ru/politics/2014/4/25/684025.html
                1. -2
                  February 8 2023
                  Well, we got to Kyiv. And in the end where are Kyiv and Kherson
                  1. 0
                    February 8 2023
                    and what in the end? Kherson moved closer to Kyiv, or Kyiv moved away. Sorry, I didn't understand the post...
                2. 0
                  February 8 2023
                  Quote from Digger
                  Although .... 24.04.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX ex-head of intelligence of the grouping of the Ministry of Defense in Chechnya

                  Our dear man, why are you confusing
                  Quote from Digger
                  will be able to reach Kyiv

                  Yes, at the age of 14. With
                  "to take in three days"?
                  Very different things...
                  1. 0
                    February 8 2023
                    I don't confuse anything.
                    There was a question about "3 days", about cissoshniks and so on.
                    Well, here I am (with my strength) and tried to explain, "where the legs come from."
                    Sergei Kanchukov - I don't know.
                    Konstantin Sivkov - you can hardly listen
                    And all sorts of Simonyans and Skabeevs are harm, and listening to them is not self-respecting.
                    The essence of "take Kyiv in 3 days" Ukrainians must present their claims to Mark Milley
                    Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley told lawmakers that Kyiv could fall within 72 hoursif there is a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine,

                    Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told investigators that Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine takes place, multiple congressional sources

                    and again same "may", and can and "cannot."
                    (later he corrected)
                    I don't care so. It is not clear why in Russia the talking heads are silent.
          2. -2
            February 8 2023
            Where are you throwing it from?

            amazing evolutionary changes have now taken place. Now both TsIPSO and our home-grown liberda have mimicked patriots and under this roof they are throwing them on a fan. This sub is one of those. It just doesn't make sense to figure out who exactly - it's just different varieties of manure
          3. -2
            February 8 2023
            Not true, on the central channels of the Russian Federation, Solovyov and his ilk could often be heard addressing opponents' coming out. And now, when it became obvious that no Kyiv had happened in three days, they immediately changed their shoes and started "about Kyiv for three days, the enemies came up with!"... you yourself could probably say this before the start of the NWO
            1. I don’t really understand when they draw conclusions from performances on a TV show and refer to the Solovyovs and their "expert" guests!
              For what? To listen as a well-deserved player in "Zarnitsa" - no more military experience, declares how "we throw them with one left" - do not respect yourself, but cite as an example or argument - even worse!
              It is not necessary, at least here, to interfere with the military to fight, correct their miscalculations and plan their maneuvers and operations - this is their business!
        2. 0
          February 7 2023
          moreover, you and the authors themselves cannot be seen at the front
          Yes, you can’t see something there either ......
        3. -2
          February 8 2023
          moreover, the uryahs themselves, like you and the authors, cannot be seen at the front,

          Are you already scribbling from the trench, balabolka? Or are you missing your mom's sofa?
    3. +1
      February 7 2023
      Quote from: User_neydobniu
      An old song about useless NATO technology ... Nothing new, propaganda, propaganda and again propaganda


      In Russian it is written like this:
      An old song about useless NATO technology ... Nothing new, propaganda, propaganda and again propaganda ...
      There are cases and test words in Russian...
      It was customary for us to write correctly so that the soldiers would not laugh ...
      To not be in the protocols:
      “Running away from the criminals, I managed to shoot 2 times in the back.”
      hi
      1. +1
        February 8 2023
        Speech, both written and oral, is nothing but a reflection of the thought process.
  4. +4
    February 7 2023
    An article from the category "Who is stronger? Elephant or whale." One Mirage, armed with 4 Super Matra missiles and supported by Avaks, will be stronger than a pair of Su-35s with 24 R-73 missiles, but without external target designation. In the same way, a single Drying with R-37 + A-50 to shreds will smash a whole bunch of Mirages and F-16s. It all depends on the tactics and literacy of the application.
  5. +2
    February 7 2023
    In order to have an advantage in the air, it is necessary to defeat the Amer satellites, because it is their "activity" that allows the air defense to be switched on at the last moment before the rocket launch. Something is not heard joyful cries about "Peresvet" and "Badass". If they turned out to be ineffective, then only a tank of nails launched into orbit will help quickly and efficiently solve the problem of spy satellites.
    1. +2
      February 7 2023
      Lord, again these tales about satellites that see our planes and missiles and work online with the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine .... it is strange that the AWACS was not mentioned, which from Romania allegedly sees a mustache over Donetsk
      1. -1
        February 8 2023
        I remember in 2014-2015 it was possible to read that American intelligence over eastern Ukraine could not see anything, since Russian electronic warfare equipment jammed everything so tightly and strongly that they covered everything there with a dome and the adversaries therefore cannot see anything
  6. Aag
    +3
    February 7 2023
    "... And, unfortunately, among the operators there are no countries capable of providing proper service to the Mirages that ended up in the Ukrainian Air Force ..."
    (C) From the article.
    ???!
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      February 7 2023
      Ask yourself the question: Why are you cheating, trying to replace the goals of the NWO?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  8. +1
    February 7 2023
    Well, what, a 'normal' general educational article for high school students and "nerds" (in a good sense, very cool videos from Ph.D. S. Drobyshevsky, a Russian paleoanthropologist and popularizer of the scientific worldview and many others, they are really 'inspired' ! ). And an advanced high school student who has played enough games like "Ace Combat 7 Skies" (I don't remember the names of the emulators and I don't know which ones are cool now) 'petrates' the topic raised by the author, more than he wrote in this article. Sounds like a very old essay, civil and not very close to the aviation 'chela' for getting a lead position? engineer. Alas, the "petrifying players" will have to catch up on basic knowledge for a long time ...
  9. -4
    February 7 2023
    Strange thoughts. Of course, it cannot be ruled out that the Mirages will appear: a lot of stupid things have been done this year, and not only by the Russian side.

    However, there is no need for them. Moreover, as long as the decision is not to move the NMD beyond the borders of Ukraine, aviation as a whole will be of little use.
  10. +2
    February 7 2023
    OLS, of course, can help guns, but first of all, it helps to direct short-range missiles (60/73), their range capabilities have greatly increased, with the previous ones, they can be launched at 20-30 km, at such ranges the pilot does not visually see the target , also helps to point in the clouds. It was one of the asymmetric responses to the same stealth technologies.
    And yes, this is an old aircraft, this is an aircraft from the Cold War, it is essentially needed to protect large wax groups from enemy bomber and attack aircraft. This is not an aircraft for gaining air supremacy, the fight against fighter aircraft is, in principle, not its task ...
    Actually, what is the success of the f-16, unlike the mirage and the mig-29, it was more of a bomber and fit perfectly into local conflicts, the post-Cold War, and the mig-29 and the mirage were essentially not destiny, the first mig-29 could not carry bombs, but they were later adapted, but all the same, an instant carries a maximum of 6 tons, which is more than enough for air-to-air missiles, and f-16 up to 10 tons of bombs, which is significant for ground strikes and practically corresponds to su-34 ...
    In theory, for mirages, the main target is helicopters and Su-24/25 of our Air Force, maybe x-101 / calibers, but not Su-30 ...
    1. 0
      February 7 2023
      At the beginning of its career, the F16 won numerous NATO competitions for tactical bombers. Defeated all sorts of Tornadoes, Hawks and so on.
  11. 0
    February 7 2023
    A war in the style of the First World War is a war of mutual destruction, nothing more.

    A bit of an odd comparison in my humble opinion. It's not even about the number of soldiers. And in the technological cycle.
    During WW1, factories drove the flow of weapons. Now the score goes to tens maximum. Yes, they are much more efficient. But the loss of one unit is much more sensitive. Just because it takes MUCH longer to make a new one.
  12. +3
    February 7 2023
    ... Su-30 saved and multiplied ... Multiply - this is several times, in Russian. Multiply - add something.
  13. +2
    February 7 2023
    Su-30, which has a range of 40% more than the Mirage
    .
    If we operate with open sources, and others are not available to us or the author, then the combat radius of the Su-30 is declared by the manufacturer to be 1500 km, and the Mirage 2000 is 830 nautical miles, that is, the same 1500 km. Naturally, this figure is "averaged" and will change with different "loads" of weapons, but then it is necessary to give the range with a comparable combat load.
  14. -3
    February 7 2023
    You have to be one step ahead of NATO, if they are talking about F-16s or Mirages, then squadrons should already be created that will destroy them in the face of the SU-35 or MiG-35, as well as air defense systems. But for this it is necessary to win air supremacy in Ukraine. Then maybe Ukraine will not receive fighters, and we will be able to burn out the rear of the enemy. The United States used this Douai thesis in Japan, tried it in Vietnam and developed it to the end in Yugoslavia and Iraq, so this thesis should also be put into practice, “To win air supremacy means to win, and to be defeated in the air means to be defeated and forced to accept all the conditions that the enemy would like to put”, if we gain air supremacy, then no supplies will help Ukraine, we will burn all the equipment in warehouses or points for the formation of brigades or other military units.
    Paris makes money, nothing more.
    , and at the expense of this, Lokhmet Marekt has already begun to make money, revenue for 2022 increased by 42%, General Dynamics by 24%, and then it will only grow, unfortunately.
  15. -3
    February 7 2023
    Do not overestimate the capabilities of Lockheed. Yes, they can produce F - 16 in large quantities, but in what time frame? The capabilities of factories and highly skilled assemblers have their limits. Everything will run into time, you may even have to slow down the F-35 production line. Which is very unlikely, because the F-35 is a "goose that lays golden eggs."
  16. +1
    February 7 2023
    I read half of the article and didn’t even go further. And that's why ... In aviation, everything is the same as in tanks ... whoever has a long trunk wins. That is, it doesn’t matter what kind of mirage there is in terms of performance characteristics, but what matters is what it carries under the wing. At what distance will he find the target and how will he hit it.
  17. -1
    February 7 2023
    I think that it will be worse for us if Ukraine receives from France a certain number of Super-Etandar with Exocet anti-ship missiles
    1. -2
      February 7 2023
      Quote: svp67
      I think that it will be worse for us if Ukraine receives from France a certain number of Super-Etandar with Exocet anti-ship missiles

      And you do not think. Rather, do not scare the fish. Considering that the aircraft was decommissioned in 2016, and only 85 of them were produced .... Well, as I understand it, you recently read about the actions of the Argentine Super Etandar in the Falklands conflict, and ... If you think that you received this scrap metal, but what else can you call the aircraft decommissioned in 2016, and which it is not known how they look now, I'm not talking about museum exhibits, and do they look? I have not seen a single photo with Super-Etandar from the French storage base. Where can the French get instructors for Ukrainian pilots to train on these aircraft. Even to transplant a tractor driver from DT-75 to K-701, 3-month courses had to be completed.
      About the coverage of the air defense radar of the area in the Falklands conflict zone, you, like me, did not read this moment at all. And in all articles describing the actions of the Argentines, this is the main emphasis. And the fact that they went to the extremely small, and the way they pointed out that instead of "Hermes" - the container ship "Atlantic Conveyor". And if Sevastopol’s air defense and anti-aircraft defense systems are being destroyed by various drones, air surface and underwater, then a museum exhibit like Super-Etandara Not only has a chance to reach, there is no opportunity to take off.
      1. -1
        February 7 2023
        Quote: Fitter65
        And if Sevastopol’s air defense and anti-aircraft defense systems are being destroyed by various drones, air surface and underwater, then a museum exhibit like Super-Etandara Not only has a chance to reach, there is no opportunity to take off.

        But there are our warships at sea to secure the so-called "grain deal"
  18. +3
    February 7 2023
    Roman, check it out, I already have your opuses, about aviation, I don’t comment. laughing laughing laughingBecause I don't read. laughing drinks good
  19. +2
    February 7 2023
    finished reading the article - well, everything, victory in your pocket!
  20. +1
    February 7 2023
    Explain to the amateur what the problem is to still control the sky in the zone of your own? And calmly bomb the Armed Forces of Ukraine not only with bombers but also with helicopters?
    I don’t think that our flyers are sykuns. What is the problem with detecting and suppressing enemy air defenses? Well, yes, you probably have to provoke their air defense installations to fire in order to detect them, but for this we have aircraft with super maneuverability to get away from their missiles
    1. +1
      February 8 2023
      Quote: Smoke
      Explain to the amateur what the problem is to still control the sky in the zone of your own? And calmly bomb the Armed Forces of Ukraine not only with bombers but also with helicopters?
      I don’t think that our flyers are sykuns. What is the problem with detecting and suppressing enemy air defenses? Well, yes, you probably have to provoke their air defense installations to fire in order to detect them, but for this we have aircraft with super maneuverability to get away from their missiles

      You, apparently, have little idea what a modern anti-aircraft missile is. Its speed is usually 4-5 times the speed of the aircraft, it flies ahead of the course. With all the desire, you are unlikely to dodge it, or fly away, as in Hollywood films. Therefore, specifically to provoke air defense to shelling, there will only be a complete psycho.
      As for the rest, everything has already been written many times - the lack of experience in suppressing air defense and the lack of high-precision / planning asp.
  21. -2
    February 7 2023
    Quote: ramzay21
    There were already songs about our powerful forty-year-old "aircraft carrier killers" from the USSR, until it turned out that without modernization of the RRC, Moscow was not combat-ready and was simply a target not only for NATO fleets, but also for a country without a fleet like Ukraine.
    It was funny from the sight of the Hymers, until it turned out that the once first country in the world in terms of MLRS, having not done anything in this area for 30 years, lost its leadership long ago and thanks to the Hymers, our troops left Kherson and half of the Kherson region, which recently became part of the Russian Federation.


    Where is the evidence that the Moskva was sunk by the Ukrainians? From an unwashed finger?
    Kherson was left not because of the "Haymars". The numerical superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine after repeated mobilizations played its role.

    Quote: ramzay21
    All these controllable thrust vectors are good for air shows and have long been tested by the Americans,


    in production samples. Engines with OVT have both F-22 and F-35.
  22. 0
    February 7 2023
    Dear Sirs! It depends on what modification of the Mirage-2000 we are talking about. Mirage-2000-5 or 2000-9 equipment has an open architecture, and some elements of the avionics are from Rafal. According to the pilots of the Russian Federation who piloted the Mirage, it is very volatile, maneuvers extremely well, loves verticals, and acceleration is fun. The airborne radar is traditionally, as for all the French, very high quality, excellent picture, ergonomics. Yes, and rockets - MICA costs 2000-5 - the best rocket in its class. Yes, a huge minus of the entire Su-27, 30, 34, 35 series - well, a very large EPR. Outrageous for the 21st century. Huge drawback. They glow from a distance of 150+ km like Christmas trees. And the Mirage is small, the RCS is 0,5 meters. The Su-30 has an EPR of 12 meters. Twelve, Carl??? The Su-27 has 10 meters. The Su-35 has 5 meters. Therefore, in an air battle between these carts, everything will be decided by the skill of the pilots. Mirage-2000-5 and 2000-9 still meet the requirements of the 21st century in terms of the combination of characteristics.
  23. 0
    February 7 2023
    Remind me what happened in India a couple of weeks ago?
    ... Mirage collided with the SU-30 ...
    reasons not yet announced, there are questions ...
  24. -1
    February 7 2023
    Fighting NATO the way we are fighting is complete idiocy. NATO in conventional weapons, mobilization resource, reconnaissance and targeting capabilities is several times stronger than Russia.
    To fight by their rules is to lose the war. Russia now has an advantage in tactical nuclear weapons, hypersonic weapons and weapons based on new physical principles. This advantage is also temporary, so use it now. And we must start with the destruction of the NATO satellite constellation. This will immediately deprive the high-precision weapons supplied to Ukraine of the opportunity to be such and destroy the network-centric system of their command and control. A war in space could equally well end the war in Ukraine on favorable terms for Russia, or further escalate the conflict. True, if NATO decides on a big war without a satellite constellation, then Russia will have to fight in much more favorable conditions.
    1. +1
      February 7 2023
      What is your position in the General Staff? Armchair strategist?
      1. +1
        February 7 2023
        There are 2/3 of the site of such strategists. It's disgusting to even read.
  25. -3
    February 7 2023
    The article does not cover the topic where the notorious mirages will be based? How will the mirage crawl to the burial site if the burial itself arrives at the airfield?
  26. -2
    February 8 2023
    Not a single old g4 fighter will be delivered to fight the Su-30 or Su-35. If suddenly European friends want to clean the sky from Su, Meteorites will be placed.
    1. 0
      February 14 2023
      What is the problem with putting the Meteor, Miku and Talesovsky radar on the Mirage 2000-5 - if desired?
      1. nks
        0
        February 15 2023
        With the last two, the problem is that they already exist :) (what kind of radar can there be, except for Thales? :). It is possible to install a meteor, but it is necessary to carry out an appropriate amount of work - this is unlikely to be done. By the way, in fact, there is an OLS on the mirage - the image from the MICA-IR sensor can be displayed on the screen on the dashboard.
  27. +1
    February 8 2023
    Even without Mirages and F-16s, we already "absolutely dominate" the sky, and only when they appear .... fellow
  28. -2
    February 8 2023
    Regarding retraining ... I don’t remember exactly, but it seems like it was all the same ... Soviet WWII pilots recalled that on Amer’s planes the “horizon line” on the device was “displayed” differently. In one case, the plane is relative to the line, in the other, vice versa. And in the heat of battle, the pilots did not always correctly assess the position of the aircraft. Incl. as far as I understand ... they won’t learn anything super flying in two or three months.
  29. +3
    February 8 2023
    Strange article.
    Before talking about "Mirages", you need to know what kind of mirages to talk about.
    French were:
    6 Mirage 2000N, 35 Mirage 2000C/-5, 6 Mirage 2000B, 67 Mirage 2000D

    The Dasault Electronique / Thompson-CSF Antilope 5 radar will provide an air defense breakthrough at a height of 60m (“The Earth is round”), at a speed of 1110 km / h, which will allow an invasion of the air defense system below the radar threshold (in the absence of AWACS: the radio horizon will be approximately 25-30 km)
    Yes, and the Thomson-CSF RDM + radar is not at all bad and equivalent (and surpasses the H011M Bars in terms of operating time and weight.
    Given the difference in EPR, not parity at all ....
    Quote: author
    but when working on air targets, the Russian locator is more effective, since it is 20 years younger than the French one.

    there is no correlation between "younger" and the difference in the level of electronics of the Russian Federation and France.
    Quote: author
    But the mechanization of the wing of the French fighter, thanks to the large elevons and internal flaps for pitch control

    the M-200 has automatic maneuverable slotted slats throughout the span and two-section elevons + brake flaps (top and bottom) on each wing console. There are no flaps to be seen...
    Quote: author
    that AL-31FP is more stable in terms of gas dynamics. It allows the aircraft to fly tail first for some time, when performing figures,

    recourse Aircraft with jet engines that have a reverse .... they don’t even know about "gas-dynamic stability"
    1. 0
      February 8 2023
      Given the difference in EPR, not parity at all ....

      And what is his EPR?
      Radar Dasault Electronique / Thompson-CSF Antilope 5 will provide an air defense breakthrough at a height of 60m (

      Explain how the operation of a Doppler radar in active mode, and even in the forward hemisphere, is combined with overcoming air defense?
      1. 0
        February 9 2023
        Quote: bk316
        And what is his EPR?

        MIRAGE 2000E RCS is 1.0-2.5 equivalent m^2
        F-16E/F BLOCK 60=0.5-1.5
        at SUKHOI SU-30MKI they write that 1.0-3.5, but I will assume that more: 4-5
        Detection range is directly proportional to sqrt 4 (RDS) - other things being equal
        4th root of 1=1
        4th root of 4= 1.41
        either 40% earlier you will find, or it is fashionable to have 4 times less powerful (or smaller antenna aperture) in order to get the same reflected signal.
        Quote: bk316
        Explain how the operation of a Doppler radar in active mode, and even in the forward hemisphere, is combined with overcoming air defense?

        they are all multimode
        RDM (Radar Doppler multimode) can operate in multiple air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea modes and is standard on export Mirage 2000s.
        For air-to-ground operation, the RDM provides a 30° ground chart on either side of its center line. The optional Doppler Beam Sharpening (DBS) unit operates in a sector about 25° wide. In addition to being used to update inertial navigation and range ground targets, the RDM has a terrain avoidance mode that shows two clearance planes on the head down display.
        Traveling wave tube coherent RDM transmitter operating in X-band

        Dassault Electronique/Thomson-CSF RDI pulse-Doppler radar for Mirage 2000C/D

        RDI uses a higher pulse repetition rate for its special interception role. The maximum range against a fighter in clear air conditions is about 66 nautical miles, but the main improvement in RDI performance over RDM is achieved when looking down.
        AA search modes and DT mode

        now from Thales-ANTILOPE-5 (Ku-Band)
        For 2000N (N1 only nuclear weapons, NK2 and NK3 and conventional) and 2000D (assault version)
        Thomson-CSF RDM-multi-mode radar for the rest
        Thales multi-mode RDY (radar doppler multi-purpose) for Mirage 2000RDM, and for all upgrades to the 2000-5 standard
        This radar is used by the aircraft for automatic, contour hugging flight at very low altitude. It also provides for accurate navigation, thanks to its high definition mapping system, and for day/night attack against land targets in all weather conditions.

        The ANTILOPE radar can also be used for precision weapon firing (air-to-ground missiles, laser-guided bombs, etc.)

        Antilope V provides additional navigational assistance by comparing the ground detected by the radar with digital maps. This mode allows you to pinpoint a target within 8 nautical miles.
        In terrain tracking mode, it is used similarly to a ground echo sounder, but because of this, it is somewhat flawed in air-to-air mode.
        1. -1
          February 9 2023
          Quote from Digger
          MIRAGE 2000E RCS is 1.0-2.5 equivalent m^2
          ...
          at SUKHOI SU-30MKI they write that 1.0-3.5, but I will assume that more: 4-5

          And why do you assume 4-5, and not 1.0-3.5 as they say? 1.0-3.5 doesn't fit into your narrative?

          Quote from Digger
          they are all multimode
          RDM...
          ...RDI
          ...Thales-ANTILOPE-5 (Ku-Band)
          RDY...

          And the fact that they are all SCHAR, do you not notice for ideological reasons?
          1. +1
            February 10 2023
            Quote: Comet
            And why do you assume 4-5, and not 1.0-3.5 as they say? 1.0-3.5 doesn't fit into your narrative?

            can you do it without arrogance?
            I explain
            1. The physical size of the object and the fields it generates.
            RCS is not directly related to surface area and volume, but depends.
            If you see them side by side, as I have repeatedly, you will be a little surprised at the enormity of the sous.


            and the linear dimensions confirm this
            -pgo su
            -2 keels
            - other performances
            -flashlight
            - a very large diameter of the radar web. You can't hide it under the RPM. lapel only
            - materials
            Quote: Comet
            And the fact that they are all SCHAR, do you not notice for ideological reasons?

            repeat
            can you do it without arrogance?

            what does the "ideology" and the slot antenna have to do with it?
            The technological leaps necessary to make this radar successful are mainly concerned:
            The quality of the secondary lobes of its antenna, which led to the choice of a flat slot guide antenna, in which the major difficulty to be overcome was to supply the transmission antenna and the formation of the monopulse channels of the as simple as possible, to preserve the lightness of the whole and to maintain the speed of the antenna movements necessary for multi -target pursuits.

            develop your deep thought ... otherwise I was "lost"
            -slotted AR cannot be a lot of regime?
            - "SHCHAR" cannot work on the ground?
            -Can't work in Ku-Band?
            - or is a coherent RDM transmitter on a traveling wave tube operating in the X-band not compatible with the Babinet principle?
            1. -1
              February 10 2023
              Quote from Digger
              I explain
              1. The physical size of the object and the fields it generates.
              RCS is not directly related to surface area and volume, but depends.

              There is no dependence of reflection from an object in the frequency range of radar from the reflection of an object in the optical range.
              Quote from Digger
              If you see them side by side, as I have repeatedly, you will be a little surprised at the enormity of the sous.

              So I saw them for several years and several times. Both on the ground and in the air. And from different vantage points.
              and the linear dimensions confirm this
              -pgo su
              -2 keels
              - other performances
              -flashlight

              So this is the optical range. In it, the visibility of the Su-30MS is higher. But this has nothing to do with the RL range.
              - very large diameter of the radar web

              Likewise. If the radar canvas reflects, then what then enters the radar receiver?
              what does the "ideology" and the slot antenna have to do with it?

              And for what other reasons can you not notice that the Mirage has a SCHAR, and the Su-30MS has a FAR?
  30. 0
    February 8 2023
    Mirages will most likely supply Harm with ami, as was the case with the Ukrainian MiG-29s.
  31. -3
    February 8 2023
    Quote: ramzay21
    Captivating moods are always harmful, especially if they are based on ridiculous and incorrect comparisons.
    There were already songs about our powerful forty-year-old "aircraft carrier killers" from the USSR, until it turned out that without modernization of the RRC, Moscow was not combat-ready and was simply a target not only for NATO fleets, but also for a country without a fleet like Ukraine.
    It was funny from the sight of the Hymers, until it turned out that the once first country in the world in terms of MLRS, having not done anything in this area for 30 years, lost its leadership long ago and thanks to the Hymers, our troops left Kherson and half of the Kherson region, which recently became part of the Russian Federation.

    All these controllable thrust vectors are good for air shows and have long been tested by the Americans, but they have long realized that modern air combat is a bunch of AWACS aircraft + stealth fighter + long-range explosive class missile. They also tested this tactic in Yugoslavia, where the pilots of the then modern MiG-29s simply could not detect the F-15s flying at extremely low altitude with the radar turned off, which were aimed at targets and given out by the AWACS aircraft.

    If in our country over the past 20 years at least someone has been engaged in the real development of the Air Force, then they would have long ago built AWACS aircraft for cheap on the basis of several dozen Tu-204s in storage, they would have ordered a couple of hundred Su-57s for the Air Force, hundreds of three Su -30SM-2, an additional four hundred Su-30M unified with the Su-35 and six hundred brought to mind MiG-35 with AFAR Zhuk-A and would have worked out the interaction of AWACS aircraft + Su-57 / Su-35 / Su-34 / Su -30SM / MiG-35 + anti-radar and long-range air-to-air missiles, and even if they actively worked out these interactions in real exercises, including with counteraction to electronic warfare, then Ukraine would have had neither air defense nor air force for a long time and our aircraft weapons, ammunition and replenishment would simply not reach the LBS and the NWO would have ended long ago in the rear of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and would have freely operated in the rear of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    If at least one of those mediocrity who wipe their pants in the Moscow Region would create UAV units, including strike and reconnaissance ones, formulate requirements for such UAVs based on our and foreign experience and order them in our military-industrial complex, then it would be even more accelerated our victory in the NWO and saved tens of thousands of lives of our soldiers. If we had at least a thousand UAVs of the Inohodets type, they could effectively detect and destroy ambushes on our columns, enemy columns, enemy armored vehicles and artillery, its warehouses and headquarters in the immediate rear.

    But alas and ah, we again sing, flooding with a nightingale like our VKS, unable even now to suppress enemy air defense and the Air Force will also manage to shoot down quite modern and dangerous Mirages. It's amazing!

    Well, that's all, of course, it's good what you say. Of course, there are problems. But we have the Temple of the Armed Forces, which has no analogues in the world, the cost of which is estimated at billions of rubles.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  32. +1
    February 8 2023
    Auch DIESER Autor hat seine an sich richtigen Gedanken nicht
    Wirklich zu Ende gedacht...!

    Das wirksamste Mittel weitere - konventionelle Zerstörung - im stetigen Schneckentempo zu vermeiden sind auch nicht Angriffsflugzeuge!
    In Wahrheit. ob einem das nun gefällt oder nicht, sind hochschlagkräftige OFFENSIV-WAFFEN, entweder taktische Nuklearwaffen, oder eben das Stärkste was es gibt knapp unterhalb atomarer Waffengattungen!!

    Zum einen kann man tatsächlich durch diese Schock-Therapie, etwa
    direkt vor der polnischen Grenze, den US-Stiefelleckern die Lust auf
    etwaige "Angliederungen" ukrainischer Gebiete versauen und andererseits sehr klar machen, dass JETZT ending ist mit "lustig"...!!

    Auf diese Weise kann man zum einen die weiter östlich gelegenen,
    neuen, russischen Anschlussgebiete schonen und schafft gleichzeitig
    eine strategische Pufferzone, für die sich zwangsläufig Niemand der
    westlichen Dreckschweine incl. Polen mehr interessieren KANN...!!

    Es geht nur entweder oder:

    Entweder man richtet sich darauf ein, jetzt Jahre, wenn nicht Jahrzehnte die ständig neuen Schweinereien der westlichen
    US-Stiefellecker abzuwehren und die Polen im Auge zu behalten, mit der klaren Logik, dass hierbei nach und nach auch der Rest der Ukraine häppchenweise in Schutt und Asche gelegt wird, oder man entscheidet sich für zwei, oder drei ultraharte Schläge die derart brutal sind , dass den Feinden Russlands ihre dümmliche, große Fresse im wahrsten Sinne im Halse stecken bleibt...!!
    Am wirksamsten, wenn natürlich auch mit Risiken behaftet, wäre es,
    wenn insbesondere Großbritanien und die USA, etwa mit der
    Vernichtung von Ramstein in Deutschland, ebenfalls endlich
    "ihr Fett" abkriegen würden...!!

    Eine andere Alternative gibt es nicht und zwar ganz egal wer wem jetzt welche Kampfflugzeuge liefert , um diesen Irrsinn ganz im Sinne der US- Völkermörder und deren militärisch-industriellen Komplex immer noch weiter am Laufen zuhalten...!!
  33. 0
    February 8 2023
    Skomorokhov, do you sleep at all sometimes?
  34. -2
    February 9 2023
    300 high-voltage poles will have to be installed, and eight aircraft rockets will be attached to the poles instead of high-voltage wires. This will be 300 flying aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces, in order not to destroy the border cities. They will fly 24 hours a day for all approaching targets. The launch will be controlled by an ordinary aviation radar without a fuselage. If the commander-in-chief really wants to save border cities from destruction. Remove radar from disabled aircraft.
    The effect will be the same as from eight thousand helicopters loitering over the border.
    There will be savings on kerosene again. So go ahead, comrades of energy producers! Drill holes in the ground and install concrete poles.
    If anything, thank you for saving Russia and thousands of Russian citizens of Russian cities.
    The pilots will not die, that's good too!
  35. 0
    February 9 2023
    Engines with deflectable thrust vectors make it possible to perform figures to which such a concept as “super-maneuverability” is applicable, useful in combat missions.
    It would be interesting to hear for which situations "chakras" and "cobras" are useful. I think it's just for airshows. Or are combat pilots trained to do "chakra" in response to a missile attack?
    1. 0
      February 10 2023
      Quote from: Alex_mech
      Engines with deflectable thrust vectors make it possible to perform figures to which such a concept as “super-maneuverability” is applicable, useful in combat missions.
      It would be interesting to hear for which situations "chakras" and "cobras" are useful. I think it's just for airshows. Or are combat pilots trained to do "chakra" in response to a missile attack?

      Don't you live in Russia?
      1. 0
        March 12 2023
        Are there any other laws of physics in Russia? Or do you mean that everyone who lives in Russia has absorbed knowledge about the usefulness of super-maneuverability with their mother's milk?
        1. 0
          March 25 2023
          Quote from: Alex_mech
          Are there any other laws of physics in Russia? Or do you mean that everyone who lives in Russia has absorbed knowledge about the usefulness of super-maneuverability with their mother's milk?

          In Russia, you can come to MAKS and see how super-maneuverability is used in maneuverable air combat.
  36. 0
    February 13 2023
    Based on the text of the article, it is clear that all aircraft of the United States and NATO countries can and should be destroyed, and the sooner the better. This is necessary to ensure air supremacy and global victory in NWO.
  37. 0
    February 16 2023
    Tailless mirages only spin the barrels quickly, there are no more advantages!
    The MiG-21bis will tear them apart in an instant if the R-73 is installed, and the multi-mode MiG-23MLD with good radar has lost its noses and f-15 and f-16 in Syria, read real declassified reports, not these tales from the Discovery Channel laughing
  38. -1
    March 14 2023
    Okay, Roman! What are you speaking about? Any Western fighter for our dryers is a mortal threat, because they have intelligence and control from AWACS and satellites, but we don’t. At all. Our super-maneuverability is for MAKS and parades, and in real combat conditions we will be shot down by the hundreds. Including 35 and even 57 models. The one who first discovers and gives the control center to his fighters will be the first to launch air-to-air missiles, which you can’t dodge, if you are three times super maneuverable.
    What are you speaking about? Feed amateurs with searchlights? No need. Everything has been proven. I saw it first, got the control center - launched my rocket - and that's it, uncover moduro and light up. And for the one on whom they launched - try to dodge, already with a breakdown in the implementation of the knowledge base, or there is a twitch in the point. As soon as the West hands over its fighters to the 404th, everyone sailed. 60 pieces is enough to change everything. And there are only 2000 of them in Europe ...
    1. 0
      March 25 2023
      Quote: Glagol1
      will be the first to launch air-to-air missiles that you can’t dodge if you are three times super maneuverable.

      Why don't you make sure? A rocket does not have infinite energy. And then there are, for example, the simplest dipole reflectors ...
  39. 0
    March 20 2023
    Just one question - where will the Mirages be based? In Poland? And, accordingly, will they fly out to perform combat missions from Polish airfields? For all our softness, I strongly doubt that the Polish airfields will not be hit in this case. And, it seems to me, the Poles understand this very well.
  40. 0
    March 20 2023
    The author, as usual, is illiterate. And he doesn’t understand not only airplanes (which is only a blunder about the ability to fly tail first), but also what is happening. And the harsh reality is that there is not and will not be maneuverable air combat in the NVO zone. Ukrainian aircraft are used exclusively for ground strikes, their task is to quickly hit a ground target and escape before they are shot down by a medium or long-range missile. Maneuverability here can only help get away from the missile, but only if it is detected in advance. Does the Mirage have such equipment? I doubt. I think that with the visual detection of a missile, the Mirage will no longer be helped by its maneuverability. The only thing that can save him is going to low altitude.
    For some reason, they also forget that an aircraft is not a tank, its cost is much higher, and its operation is much more difficult. Western aircraft, moreover, are much more capricious and demanding in terms of infrastructure and maintenance. The training of pilots (even one-time pilots) is much longer and more difficult than tankers.
    And the goal of NATO in this conflict is not at all the defeat of Russia, but the longest possible military operations, causing as much damage as possible to both Russia and Ukraine. Yes, yes, and Ukraine too. I think Western strategists are well aware that the territory of Ukraine and its population will sooner or later become part of the Russian state. And why not destroy what is left, including by the hands of the Ukrainians themselves? Therefore, weapons will be supplied exactly that, and just enough to drag out the war as long as possible, and nothing more. From this point of view, the supply of aircraft is not yet expedient.
  41. 0
    April 26 2023
    Separately, about the radar. Whatever experts criticizing Russian radio electronics say, it is a fact that the Su-30 radar is superior to the Mirage radar.

    Alas, this is not a fact.
    At least for Mirage 2000-5F versions

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