Military Review

Transfer of “wheeled tanks” AMX-10RC to Ukraine: far from useless toys

131
Transfer of “wheeled tanks” AMX-10RC to Ukraine: far from useless toys

Well, as they say, wait. If a few months ago the version of a possible transfer to Ukraine of some kind of Western-style armored vehicles slightly heavier than various kinds of armored cars seemed unlikely, now the gates have almost opened to the fullest. The Americans dragged their Bradleys, the Germans promised Marders, and Macron, who once claimed the title of dove of peace, announced the delivery of AMX-10RC wheeled combat vehicles, which are also often called wheeled tanks.


Of course, you can get by with on-duty phrases that French deliveries will not change anything and are generally useless. Nevertheless, despite the impossibility of radically changing the situation on the fronts, these wheeled vehicles can do a lot of things, so they should not be neglected, at least in terms of specific combat areas.

outlandish thing


To be honest, the gift from the French in the face of the AMX-10RC looks interesting. Despite the abundance of weapons supplied to Kyiv from its partners, some clear line can be traced in their classification. For example, they gave away a bunch of Soviet-style tanks and are preparing to supply Western ones - well, a tank is a tank, and its place in the army hierarchy is clear. The same is with infantry fighting vehicles, various kinds of armored cars, armored personnel carriers and other things, including even air defense systems and MLRS.

And here is the AMX-10RC from this slender stream weapons stands out at least in that it is a specific combat vehicle, which, although it is in service with Morocco and Qatar, generally fits the concept of exclusively French armored cavalry units. This is facilitated by its tactical and technical characteristics, including powerful weapons, wheelbase, weak armor and the inability to transport troops in favor of weight savings and high mobility.


The AMX-10RC cannot be called a tank in the full sense of the word - even the abbreviation RC (Roues Canon), which means “gun on wheels”, speaks eloquently about this. However, in the cavalry regiments, he performs the function of the main caliber. Flank attacks, breaking through sections of the front with the dissection of enemy positions and the development of the offensive, pinning down enemy forces before the arrival of the main forces and reconnaissance are far from a complete list of the tasks of modern French cavalry, where this fast machine with a large caliber is needed.

And you should not forget about the Foreign Legion and the fighting in Africa and the Middle East, because there the "wheelers" showed and show themselves from the best side. In general, all these colonial and post-colonial affairs left their mark on the French family of wheeled armored vehicles and on the AMX-10RC in particular. But a lot has been written about this, and it does not fit into the subject of this material.

Features


Before starting, one important fact should be noted: Ukraine, most likely, will be supplied with AMX-10RCRs, which have undergone a fairly deep modernization, which affected both security and the electronic component - France simply did not have any others in significant quantities. Therefore, further we will talk about the updated car.

AMX-10RC/RCR layout. The gunner and vehicle commander are in the turret to the right of the gun, the loader is to the left. The place of the driver is on the left side of the hull.
AMX-10RC/RCR layout. The gunner and vehicle commander are in the turret to the right of the gun, the loader is to the left. The driver's seat is on the left side of the hull.

Armor


One of the most controversial points, which are subject to more criticism, is the too light armoring of the French product. A number of restrictions, among which weight savings, mobility and buoyancy were put at the forefront, forced the developers to use the same armor composition as on the progenitor of the AMX-10RC, the AMX-10P tracked armored personnel carrier. Namely, aluminum alloy 7020, as the most balanced in terms of toughness and hardness.

Both the hull and the turret of the machine are made of it. At the same time, it should be noted that the level of standard protection of the "Frenchman" is lower than that of the domestic BMP-3, since the maximum thickness of its aluminum armor plates does not exceed 45 mm.

In general, exclusively bulletproof armor, which holds heavy machine guns in the frontal part, and only light 7,62-mm rifles on the sides. What to do, the buoyancy of military equipment was not only a priority for us. It is noteworthy that the French designers eventually spat on her, opting for increased security.

AMX-10RCR with additional armor
AMX-10RCR with additional armor

In the modified version of the AMX-10RCR, the hull and turret are additionally covered with high-hardness steel sheets up to 10 mm thick, as a result of which resistance to 23-mm armor-piercing projectiles in the forehead and heavy machine guns in the sides was ensured. The increase is significant. At the same time, due to the mass increased from the initial 15,6 to 17 tons, the machine is completely deprived of the ability to overcome water obstacles by swimming - even the water cannons were removed.

What conclusion can be drawn here?

The machine, in principle, was not intended for direct clashes with the enemy, massively equipped with heavy armored vehicles and anti-tank weapons. Due to the modest armor parameters, of course, no fool of the AMX-10RCR will drive a frontal attack on tanks even now, especially since there is a negative experience in Iraq, where a lot of these products were battered. And reconnaissance UAVs, of which there are sometimes more over the battlefield than birds, will exclude this possibility as much as possible. But for the infantry, even under the cover of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, this "Frenchman" can be an unexpected and extremely unpleasant surprise.

Another question is that the peculiarities of the territories where hostilities are taking place within the framework of the NMD will not everywhere make it possible to realize the possibilities of French gifts. Even the minimum building density is already a big obstacle for their application.

weaponry


This machine is, to some extent, a collection of compromises, both in terms of weapons and the fire control complex.

So, for example, the sighting system of the "Frenchman" seems to meet modern standards. There is a laser range finder, a ballistic computer and a set of sensors that provide data on meteorological conditions, the position of the vehicle's hull and turret, target speed, and so on. There is integration into a unified command and control system with satellite navigation. The commander has a panoramic observation device with the ability to fire from a cannon, and the gunner has optical and thermal imaging sights.

Commander's panoramic sight and periscope observation devices
Commander's panoramic sight and periscope observation devices

There is no only stabilization of the gun. Yes, the AMX-10RCR, like its earlier versions, does not have any gun stabilization, so the most effective shooting from it is possible only from a stop. At the same time, the trunk itself also has a feature.

You can often see information that the AMX-10RC and its upgraded variants have a standard NATO 105-mm cannon. And, accordingly, at least some unification with the M-55S tanks transferred by Slovenia may appear in terms of shells. But no, the Western partners of Kyiv are gradually starting to load logistics with a variety of sorts.

AMX-10RC with ammunition
AMX-10RC with ammunition

The machine is equipped with a 105 mm F2 BK MECA reduced pressure gun with a barrel length of 48 calibers. Unlike a full-fledged gun mounted on Leopards 1 or M1 Abrams tanks, it was designed exclusively for the French cartridge 105x527R, and cannot digest any other range of ammunition other than native.

The ammunition load of the vehicle, consisting of 38 unitary shots, includes three main projectiles:

• OE 105 F3 - classic high-explosive fragmentation projectile weighing 7,2 kg and muzzle velocity of 800 meters per second;

• The OCC 105 F3 is a fairly high speed HEAT projectile with a muzzle velocity of 1 meters per second, capable of penetrating a vertically mounted steel plate about 120 mm thick;

• OFL 105 F3 is a tungsten-based piercing sub-caliber projectile that is guaranteed to penetrate 150 mm steel plate at a 60 degree angle from 1 meters. The initial speed is 200 meters per second.

As auxiliary weapons, a 7,62-mm machine gun coaxial with a cannon with an ammunition load of 4 rounds and a 000-mm machine gun mounted on the roof of the tower near the commander's hatch are used.

A serious flaw in the form of an unstabilized cannon can significantly affect the firing capabilities of a French product, and this, in turn, can affect its survivability on the battlefield. But this is actually not such an important drawback. Even stabilizers do not give at least a 50 percent chance of accurately hitting a target on the move, and the current realities are such that hussar rally attacks on armored vehicles are an unlikely thing.

But the arsenal of the machine is very impressive. For the frontal protection of most of our tanks, of course, the penetration rates of the shells of the French vehicle, in principle, are not so dangerous. Only in the sides and stern, no more, but there the ancient grenades for the RPG-7 can cope - just like with Western tanks. The only exception is the T-62 with steel armor, which, taking into account the angles of inclination, does not give more than 200 mm.

Unlike tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers can get out of luck. There, even in the forehead, even in the side - for 105-mm shells there will be no difference.

Well, this is if such meetings between the “Frenchman” and our equipment take place at all. Still, the prose of the NWO is somewhat more banal than the poetry of estimates. Here, full-fledged high-explosive fragmentation shells of this machine come to the fore. A large caliber on a very mobile chassis can cause a lot of problems both fortified positions and when operating from ambushes. And this is greatly facilitated by the suspension capabilities of the AMX-10RCR, but more on that later.

Mobility and Legendary Suspension


As you know, a wheeled chassis in relation to armored vehicles is, first of all, high mobility. And the AMX-10RC/RCR will obviously not be an exception in this regard.

The 6F11 SRX diesel engine with a capacity of 280 horsepower, together with an automatic transmission, allows the car to accelerate to 85 km / h on the highway and 40-45 km / h off-road with a power reserve of 500 to 1 km, depending on road conditions. At the same time, the reverse speed is about the same, although in the AMX-000RCR modification it was limited to 10 kilometers per hour.

The passability on soft soils of the "Frenchman" as a whole is at the level of its counterparts. Nothing definite can be said about sourdough from the Ukrainian black soil here - it will be necessary to look at the practical application. But, for example, it drives quite confidently through wetlands, which is facilitated by the tire pressure control system.

An example of the operation of the hydropneumatic suspension AMX-10RCR
An example of the operation of the hydropneumatic suspension AMX-10RCR

But something else is more interesting here.

Firstly, the AMX-10RC/RCR, unlike many wheeled armored vehicles with multi-axle chassis, can turn like a tank. In order to turn in any direction, he does not need to describe an arc or perform back-and-forth maneuvers. Everything is done on the spot.

Secondly, in the design of its suspension there is a hydropneumatic system (oil + nitrogen), which can change the position of the hull. With it, you can change not only the clearance - ground clearance - in the range from 210 mm to 600 mm, but also the trim. Roughly speaking, you can tilt the nose of the machine to the limit down, or literally lift it on its hind legs.

How this can help in combat, especially in ambushes, does not need much explanation. Raising the hull by almost 40 centimeters increases the visibility from the car and makes it possible to see those targets that previously did not fall into the field of view due to the terrain or other terrain features. And lowering or raising the bow of the AMX-10RC/RCR multiplies the angles of depression of the gun to hit targets.

In general, a very, very strong help not only in the open field, but also in those situations where the more familiar technology for us will be powerless.

Conclusions


First of all, of course, it is worth mentioning the cons.

Still, the AMX-10RC/RCR is a specific machine. This is not a tank and not an infantry fighting vehicle, and not an armored personnel carrier. And this, of course, is the reorganization or creation of a new staff of the military unit where they will go. With this, it seems, there will be no particular problems, but we will see an example of the use of cannon armored cars that are completely atypical for the armed forces of the post-Soviet countries.

Obviously, problems in logistics will also have a negative impact. "Frenchman" is generally not unified with any Western, and even more so Ukrainian weapons. Naturally, the suppliers will not scream for help, but spare parts and shells will force the use of the car, even if a few dozen pieces are handed over, in separate areas and not scattered along the entire NWO front.

Well, traditionally and formally: the AMX-10RC / RCR will not have a serious impact on the course of the special operation. Simply because Paris will not give up its entire fleet of the Foreign Legion and armored cavalry regiments. Well, ten pieces, twenty, thirty?

But it is formal and traditional. But in practice?

A weighty caliber with powerful projectiles on a mobile chassis, equipped with a thermal imager? You need to hammer this, even when it is on railway platforms somewhere in the western regions of Ukraine. But such cases are not yet practiced in our country, so we will have to sort it out, as they say, on the ground. And there it will be possible to stumble upon ambushes with the "French" and mobile armored groups with them - the Armed Forces of Ukraine have already managed to test the tactics of maneuverable groupings, therefore, perhaps, they will try to integrate the AMX-10RC / RCR into their staff with some success.
Author:
Photos used:
wikipedia.org/dzen.ru
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  1. Comrade
    Comrade 17 January 2023 05: 30
    +1
    If a few months ago the version of a possible transfer to Ukraine of some slightly heavier than various types of armored vehicles, Western-style armored vehicles seemed unlikely, now the gates have almost opened to full

    The worse things are for the Ukrainians, the harder it is for them to get equipment. And, most likely, the French themselves will fight on these machines, as well as repair them.
    1. FoBoss_VM
      FoBoss_VM 17 January 2023 06: 19
      +24
      It seems that the issue of supplying aviation and attack helicopters is a matter of the very near future
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 17 January 2023 06: 27
        +6
        Quote from: FoBoss_VM
        It seems that the issue of supplying aviation and attack helicopters is a matter of the very near future

        if the SVO drags on for another year, they will fight specifically with Western PMCs and specialists, with all the equipment, that is, World War 3 will unwind.
        1. Civil
          Civil 17 January 2023 07: 42
          +11
          Quote: Aerodrome
          if the SVO drags on for another year, they will fight specifically with Western PMCs and specialists, with all the equipment, that is, World War 3 will unwind.

          Not at all. Vietnam War, Korean War. Afghanistan. Nowhere did World War 3 break out. And the strength and firmness there were an order of magnitude higher.

          Without a well-trained crew and competent use, it is just a difficult toy. Most likely, the enemy will use it as an offensive armored vehicle. That is, the battle path will not be long. Waiting for Leclerc.
          1. Edik
            Edik 17 January 2023 15: 00
            +17
            Quote: Civil
            Most likely, the enemy will use it as an offensive armored vehicle.

            No one in their right mind will throw it on the offensive. It will be like jihat mobiles to nightmare our positions and quickly change location. This cart is not pleasant.
            1. karabas-barabas
              karabas-barabas 17 January 2023 23: 31
              +5
              Quote: Edik
              This cart is not pleasant.

              The author, in principle, issued a good article on the typewriter. But I'm not sure about the statements about the impossibility of using shells from the L7. In one rather serious German publication, referring to information from military attachés regarding the transfer of vehicles, at the very beginning, they briefly retold the capabilities of the vehicle (namely RCR !!!) and this list included the ability to use shells from Leopard 1. The article was not about the machine itself, but about geopolitics and the transfer of weapons and listing the performance characteristics in a few words, so it sounded plausible, but I can’t presume to say. It is also said about protection on some resources that it is circular from 23mm armor-piercing and fragments of mines, howitzers and even RPGs (we are talking only about RCR, there are also modernized RCs). She also, despite the lack of stabilization, has a very high accuracy of defeat from the first shot at 2000m, from target detection to 10 s shot, the RCR version received excellent optics-electronics. The machine was created from the needs of legionnaires and was constantly modernized, growing with performance characteristics according to their own experience of use, therefore this is one of the most thoughtful machines of this class, with its own compromises, but ideal for certain tactics of use. It is not difficult to guess what tactics this is, reconnaissance in force, assault on previously known positions, quick jerks along the flanks. Will the Armed Forces of Ukraine be able to fight on these machines at the level of legionnaires, without losing them due to their inexperience, of course, the question is. But the potential of the car is huge. And by the way, even a line of native French shells has BOPS with 1500 m / s, which can stagger any tank, except for the VLD and the cheeks of the towers of some Russian tanks, to any place, and even then only T-72B3 and T-90.
              1. Edward Perov
                18 January 2023 00: 14
                +4
                The author, in principle, issued a good article on the typewriter.

                Thank you for your rating.

                But I'm not sure about the statements about the impossibility of using shells from the L7.

                But in vain. Rest assured it's impossible. None of the serial modifications of the AMX-10RC can use shots for the classic 105 mm L7 gun. Here, the only exception in terms of gun power is the AMX-10RC TML-105 (Tourelle Modulaire Légère) experimental vehicle, which has a new light turret with a high-impulse 105 mm cannon.

                It is also said about protection on some resources that it is circular from 23mm armor-piercing and fragments of mines, howitzers and even RPGs (we are talking only about RCR, there are also modernized RCs).

                The AMX-10RCR has these characteristics with an additional SEPAR armor kit and anti-cumulative steel grilles. Specific and very heavy, compared to the original version, an armored shed. I am attaching a photo of it below.


                She also, despite the lack of stabilization, has a very high accuracy of defeat from the first shot at 2000m, from target detection to 10 s shot, the RCR version received excellent optics-electronics.

                This speed and accuracy - when shooting from a place. Stabilization still gives an advantage when firing immediately. The main changes with regards to electronics affected the introduction of ACS equipment and other points of integration into a single command and control system. The sighting system also received additions. For example, now, according to some reports, all the French AMX-10RC and its upgrades have as many as three options for thermal imagers - one machine has one, the other has another thermal pack.
          2. Essex62
            Essex62 18 January 2023 16: 29
            +2
            Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan are the territories of third countries. Today the war is going on on our land and the determination of the Masons to push it deep into our territory is visible to the naked eye. Another thing is that it will most likely not become world. The bourgeois Russian Federation has no allies and it practically does not affect the interests of other players. So that the propagandists do not broadcast there, our fate is for both the Chinese and the Indians on the percussion instrument. They are self-sufficient and gasp, with a vigorous loaf, if they stop, in the habitats of the puppeteers, they are capable without us. There is something.
            1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Skeptic3
          Skeptic3 17 January 2023 13: 12
          +2
          Doesn't unwind. The Russian Federation does not have the resources for anything more than positional actions on the territory of Ukraine.
          And the dreams of "patriots" about the participation of NATO in these actions are just dreams. Because I am ashamed to admit to myself that we cannot defeat Ukraine. And we invent a "solid" enemy who is not on the battlefield.
          1. Igor K_2
            Igor K_2 17 January 2023 14: 22
            +2
            It's not about resources, it's about choosing the right point of application of efforts.
            1. Skeptic3
              Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 03
              +14
              I do not agree.
              Western military science asserts that the outcome of a long war is determined by the economic potential of the parties. The task of the armed forces is to formalize this result in an acceptable form.
              1. The comment was deleted.
      2. U_GOREC
        U_GOREC 17 January 2023 13: 52
        +1
        Quote from: FoBoss_VM
        It seems that the issue of supplying aviation and attack helicopters is a matter of the very near future

        Only if together with the crews...
        1. karabas-barabas
          karabas-barabas 17 January 2023 23: 45
          +5
          Quote from U_GOREC
          Only if together with the crews...

          Why? Ukraine is not Burundi, it seems that even the planes themselves made, of course, intelligent aviators, there are plenty of pilots to learn. The F-16 is very light and easy to retrain the aircraft, this is not the Su-27 and its development, with its own feature that allows you to super-maneuver, but an inexperienced pilot can quickly make a car, the F-16 is simpler in this sense and also has modern avionics . What takes time is to learn how to use new types of weapons and tactics of use. In my opinion, Ukrainians have been mastering the F-16 in Germany since the beginning of summer, and this has already been mentioned more than once.
      3. skeptic
        skeptic 25 January 2023 10: 00
        0
        Quote from: FoBoss_VM
        It seems that the issue of supplying aviation and attack helicopters is a matter of the very near future

        How many of our soldiers must die before the authorities realize that only a nuclear ultimatum can stop all this.
        Unless the Kremlin is looking for options, to nullify the passionate layers of society, before capitulation. The West can only be stopped by the fear of imminent annihilation, soon.
    2. Barberry25
      Barberry25 17 January 2023 11: 24
      +3
      well, at the moment everything rests on the summer campaign - the Americans demand to straighten the front line, retreat to advantageous lines and accumulate resources for the summer operation in order to arrange something along the lines of "a la Kharkov offensive", well, there will most likely be an attempt to break through to Mariupol to cut the supply line .. If the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot realize anything in spring-autumn, then most likely the supplies will be reduced to the level of dragging out the conflict, but not to their own detriment. In fact, all current supplies are the result of the autumn retreats of our army
      1. Skeptic3
        Skeptic3 17 January 2023 13: 15
        +2
        I think the opposite. The increase in supplies is the result of the expectation of a major offensive by the Russian Federation using large masses of mobilized.
      2. karabas-barabas
        karabas-barabas 18 January 2023 01: 06
        +7
        Quote: Barberry25
        But not to your own detriment.

        So far, the bulk of the tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from the west have been Soviet, or * Warsaw-treaty *, delivered Western armored cars, all in terms of booking at the same level, except that MCIs and even Humvees show themselves well against mines, and they can withstand thrashing. But all this, of course, does not allow a serious assault without heavy losses. Mardera is another matter, this is an infantry fighting vehicle with essentially tank armor, the Marder’s muzzle is very resistant, the hull itself, and the 20mm cannon is quite poisonous. The base Marder is 35 tons, with additional armor is much heavier, but thanks to a powerful engine and everything else, as befits the Germans, it is very peppy. They also started talking about the supply of Leo2, and it doesn’t matter that Leo2A4, in 5 minutes (I exaggerate of course) they will redo it with body kits from Rheinmetal into the Revolution version and you can send greetings to ATGM calculations. Already there are enough sponsors for several dozen Polish, German and Spanish Leo2A4s to weigh them with armor, install ADS (laser irradiation sensors, etc.), because even the base Leo2A4 still has the famous PERI17 with Zeiss optics and 24x zoom and Px120. These machines themselves are very combat-ready in experienced hands, but together they increase each other's potential, Leo2 and Marder, Abrams - Bradley, this is after all a classic of heavy NATO mobile formations. But training is correspondingly more difficult than for individual machines. But I don’t dare to vang how they will use all this equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they will come up with their own use, quickly, to reinforce certain battalions of several vehicles, mixed with BMP 1,2 and T-64, or they will really try to form heavy motorized rifle units according to the NATO standard, which, of course, is not fast, at least 2 years, and from the supply of 300 MBT and 500 infantry fighting vehicles, it begins to make sense. What the West has so far cost to support the armament of Ukraine since February 2022 is a penny for the United States, and even more so with other countries. There is a political push-pull going on, those who are in power, despite the support of Ukraine, are slowing down, because they are afraid of escalation, sitting in the chairs of power, or even economic problems. They are pressed either by the opposition, increasing pressure, often by their own party-genosse, or coalition partners, but of course it is easier for them, because the responsibility is lower and there is no need to engage in diplomacy with the Kremlin. For this reason, the German Minister of Defense was replaced, Madame did not pull it, her officials, the military and the military-industrial complex were like tuzis on a heating pad. And of course there are forces that are in favor of lifting sanctions, freezing a quick database and compromises, but they are in the minority and this is usually from the left or right side, moreover, when they themselves become in power, as in Italy, their position is often reviewed. Therefore, such a situation with deliveries seems to be slowing down and making excuses, but for the time being, until the time when they meet again in Ramstein, and therefore, so far, arms supplies have been going steadily and on the rise. The dragging out of the conflict, they say, Russia is big, there are a lot of resources and people, and the West will get tired, failed in a year, in my opinion, now in Germany there are 60+% of gas in storage, in the summer it was 0,03%, fuel is less than 2 euros, although for electricity and gas to the Germans came fatty payments. France is smarter with energy and people don't seem to overpay much. England has a hemorrhoid due to Brexit, basically, and they were the least dependent on the Russian Federation. By the way, they want to transfer a dozen Challengers 2, this is of course a symbolic step, but the next step, after their delivery, the pressure on Scholz, who has the rights of the owner to sell or donate 3m of German technology, will grow very much.
        1. Negro
          Negro 18 January 2023 09: 31
          -2
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          Leo2A4, in 5 minutes (I exaggerate of course) with body kits from Rheinmetal they will remake it into the Revolution version and you can send hello to ATGM calculations

          You are wrong. The director of rainmetal gave an interview recently. There is a complete overhaul of the machine, deliveries of this particular version can only begin in 2024.
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          or really try to form heavy motorized rifle units according to the NATO standard

          Zaluzhny says that he wants to start with three brigades of a new look. We'll see how things go in real life. Maybe they are pulled apart by platoon, it cannot be ruled out.
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          England has a hemorrhoid due to Brexit, mostly

          Not quite.
      3. Essex62
        Essex62 18 January 2023 16: 37
        0
        The West (read the USA) can feed Bandera with weapons without any damage to its economy. Quite the contrary, BB2 led the states to hegemony in the capitalist world. They will launch the conveyor, the hucksters from the military-industrial complex will be happy.
    3. PROXOR
      PROXOR 17 January 2023 12: 11
      0
      Nevertheless, from the description of this technique, he says that even the ancient BMP-2 from one turn will forgive this little box, how to do it. The effect of the same crowbar 3BM-42 or 3BM-46 will be overflight. The arrival of 3OF26 can tear this hamster apart. The only use of this chariot was to roll out, fire a few shots and run away.
      1. Thorvlobnor IV
        Thorvlobnor IV 17 January 2023 12: 38
        +17
        "Korobchenko" will see the ancient BMP-2 much earlier - his instruments are twice as good. And with a sniper shot he will pierce through, slightly leaning out on tiptoe from behind the hill.
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 January 2023 16: 01
          -5
          It will break through if it can drive at least somewhere on the ground with its turn and turn in a tank way. Then, of course, maybe even, she will be able to hide, so that later she can lean out.
          1. Thorvlobnor IV
            Thorvlobnor IV 17 January 2023 19: 49
            +3
            You don't have to worry too much about the ground - the "box" has a system of centralized tire inflation. We got stuck in a swamp - we dropped the pressure in the tires, the clearance to the maximum - the contact area increased - we drove out of the swamp - we pumped up the wheels without leaving the car.
      2. karabas-barabas
        karabas-barabas 18 January 2023 01: 21
        +2
        Quote: PROXOR
        from the description of this technique, he says that even the ancient BMP-2 will forgive this box from one turn, how to do it. The effect of the same crowbar 3BM-42 or 3BM-46 will be overflight.

        Once again, take an interest in various well-known sources, specifically about the AMX10 RCR version, it also holds armor-piercing 23mm from 300m on board and even RPG 7 (up to 300mm), because of some tricky armor, screens, which is generally seen in thickness " armored skirts". The car was made according to the experience of using legionnaires, and they used it in tail and mane in batches, and the latest version should not be afraid of all these carts with KPVT or ZUshka, or Bedouin Ali with RPG7 Chinese, or even North Korean. Of course, I won’t be 100% straight on the blood, but many sources say exactly this about the RCR version. And they added a new BOPS.
        1. Edward Perov
          18 January 2023 05: 18
          +2
          Once again, take an interest in various well-known sources, specifically about the AMX10 RCR version, it also holds armor-piercing 23mm from 300m on board and even RPG 7 (up to 300mm), because of some tricky armor, screens, which is generally seen in thickness " armored skirts".

          Stop the blizzard.
          1. Essex62
            Essex62 18 January 2023 16: 43
            0
            What? This screen 23 mm PSU does not hold? What about KPVT? And if Bandera, in the manner of an armored personnel carrier -70 or a Stryker, welded gratings will not stop an RPG grenade?
          2. karabas-barabas
            karabas-barabas 20 January 2023 01: 23
            -1
            Quote: Eduard Perov
            Stop the blizzard.

            Such a blizzard is told on various sort of decent resources. It is quite possible that additional screens are coming to provide all-round protection. All-round protection against RPG 7 and Soviet guns up to 30mm is a requirement for almost all NATO armored vehicles today, according to the experience of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., which have to work with tanks, armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. But these are not some cosmic values, we are talking about protection against kuma up to 300mm, which has long been resolved in adequate dimensions and weight and protection against dead 2A42 armor-piercing shells with less than 50mm, since there are no sub-caliber ones, like any Bushmasters and MK30, with a penetration of 110cm. You can’t say about any current NATO armored vehicle, before the MBT, exactly what they hold and what they don’t, the compositions and materials of the armored packages are not known to the public, since there are no trophies. Only practice can show 100% at the moment. There have been a lot of interesting things in the last 20 years. You write articles, write about the development of armored steel, ceramics, carbon fiber and other materials and their symbioses among the leaders in this field of Sweden, Germany and Israel, the Turks are very busy with this topic. A lot of interesting things have been done there.
    4. U_GOREC
      U_GOREC 17 January 2023 13: 52
      +13
      Quote: Comrade
      The worse things are for the Ukrainians, the harder it is for them to get equipment.

      Things were worst for them at the very beginning, when our troops stood near Kyiv and Kharkov, our paratroopers took Gostomel and Zelensky was afraid to show his nose from the bunker. So the "Western partners" were afraid to transfer not only heavy equipment, but lethal weapons in general - only helmets and armor!
  2. andrewkor
    andrewkor 17 January 2023 05: 32
    +7
    The article is very interesting and informative, thanks to the Author.
    I have a question about the gun: if it is "reduced pressure", then due to what such characteristics were achieved in terms of projectile speed at the level of normal guns. Thank you.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 17 January 2023 06: 46
      +2
      Quote: andrewkor
      I have a question about the gun: if it is "reduced pressure", then due to what such characteristics were achieved in terms of projectile speed at the level of normal guns.

      Due to the mass of the projectile - the French woman's OF has 7,2 kg, the English woman's L7 and clones have more than 12-13 kg.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 17 January 2023 10: 30
        +1
        Interestingly, did you put some kind of French minus? laughing
  3. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 17 January 2023 05: 58
    +31
    Another type of red line has been crossed. I have noticed an interesting thing for a long time. Westerners respect POWER. They were afraid of the USSR, therefore they rather respected than despised. Now it all comes down to one thing - yes, these suckers can threaten something only in words. Therefore, it is necessary - we will send heavy equipment, it is necessary - aviation. Because nothing will request Everything that can help kill Russians will be sent. All these tales about "yes, it won’t change anything, there’s zero sense in these 10-15-20 cars, and logistics becomes more complicated" for those who are lazy to think and analyze, but live by what the TV says.
    The ESSENCE of what is happening is important here. And it is that they continue to wipe their feet about us, because our words are not supported by actions. They have been spitting about our type of kindness for a long time (we are such that we don’t want to break the connection, it’s kind of harmful to our business). It is important for them wherever they can spoil us. And we wipe ourselves off. Therefore, the hands of narrow-minded and stupid neighbors will continue to kill us. Because in the foreground is not our soldier, but the interests of business ...
    And I wouldn’t look at the connections, but indicatively the same French with the words “you crossed the red line and became a participant in the conflict” would kick out the entire embassy, ​​withdraw my own, indicatively redirect some thread of a pair of Topol batteries to Paris and bring to combat readiness. THEN they would have seen that the gap up to the declaration of war is not a fairy tale, but an action.
    Well, that's what I would do. That's all already - we saw who they really are, because here kissing in the gums in the future is impossible. We must defend our interests, and not wipe our snot and bury our guys killed by Western weapons ...
    We have enough resources to survive, as well as those who want to trade and be friends with us. Therefore, I would break with Europe and the Anglo-Saxons on the live, despite the threat of a real war (it has always been). For that, everyone else would see that we are not blue in words ...
    And so we are waiting, sir, in the near future, the entire range of Western weapons that will kill our guys ...
    Personally, my opinion hi
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 17 January 2023 06: 11
      +1
      Quote: Rurikovich
      you crossed the red line and became a participant in the conflict "would kick out the entire embassy, ​​withdraw your own, revealingly redirect a pair of Topol batteries to Paris and put them on alert. THEN they would have seen that the gap up to the declaration of war is not a fairy tale, but actions.

      Strictly speaking, the United States is only trying to achieve this. This is how you solve their problem. Who got better? That's right, the Anglo-Saxons.
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Well, that's what I would do.

      This is because no one will actually offer you to do this, and you will not be responsible for what you have done. And the real "first person", in addition to red lines and emotional outbursts, has 147 million citizens, half of whom live on the budget. So he dodges as best he can. And I must admit, hardly anyone does and will do it better than him.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 17 January 2023 07: 06
        +3
        Quote: Hagen
        This is because no one will actually offer you to do this, and you will not be responsible for what you have done.

        I’m at work now and don’t have time to answer ... I’ll come in the evening and tell you what I personally think about this
        Quote: Hagen
        And the real "first person", in addition to red lines and emotional outbursts, has 147 million citizens, half of whom live on the budget.
      2. for
        for 17 January 2023 07: 54
        +3
        Quote: Hagen
        147 million citizens, half of which living off the budget.

        And who is to blame for this.
        will do it better than him.

        With such income from natural resources, any owner of a small shop is much more efficient. And they proved their "efficiency" (state power) PMC Wagner.
      3. Amateur
        Amateur 17 January 2023 13: 29
        +8
        And the real "first person", in addition to red lines and emotional outbursts, has 147 million citizens,

        The real "First Person" had to think on February 23 before announcing the NWO. Well, if he announced, then it is necessary to achieve victory, and not to drool.
        You can’t be a little pregnant
        (Folk wisdom)
    2. Comrade
      Comrade 17 January 2023 06: 40
      +20
      Quote: Rurikovich
      The ESSENCE of what is happening is important here. And it is that they continue to wipe their feet about us, because our words are not supported by actions.

      Exactly !
      Better to just be silent. And then at first they threaten, and then they don’t fulfill their threat, so they laugh at us. There is nothing worse than an unfulfilled threat. I stopped accepting any statements of Russian officials after they first said that all captured Western mercenaries would be put on trial under heavy articles, and then they were taken and released. After that, one of the released British again surfaced in Ukraine. An unambiguous signal has been sent to the mercenaries fighting in Ukraine. They say, do not be afraid, even if you fall into our hands, nothing will happen to you, we will scold you and let you out.
      So it turns out that everything rests on the stamina and courage of our guys, while the authorities at the same time demonstrate infantilism and frivolity in words and deeds. No one is personally responsible for anything, so they relaxed. "Concerns" are shown and "gestures of good will" are amused.
    3. paul3390
      paul3390 17 January 2023 10: 02
      +3
      "you crossed the red line and became a participant in the conflict" would have kicked out the entire embassy, ​​would have withdrawn your own, pointedly redirected a pair of Topol batteries to Paris and put it on alert.

      I think that all this public should simply be taken care of to the limit with their household chores .. Supply weapons for free to everyone who is not satisfied with them. In Africa, Asia. To work closely with the Arabs and Negroes, who still live in Geyrop. Something they are not very actively fighting for their rights.. We need to help. And so on.

      And when the same jackets begin to be thrown out of the former colonies, and an armed uprising of rabies begins in Paris, then they will leave us behind. Being overwhelmed to the very tonsils with their own problems .. Above this - and we must actively work. A debt - it is red in payment. Isn't it all the same for us to spoil under the door?
    4. matsur
      matsur 17 January 2023 11: 36
      +3
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Another type of red line has been crossed. I have noticed an interesting thing for a long time. Westerners respect POWER. They were afraid of the USSR, therefore they rather respected than despised. Now it all comes down to one thing - yes, these suckers can threaten something only in words. Therefore, it is necessary - we will send heavy equipment, it is necessary - aviation. Because nothing will request Everything that can help kill Russians will be sent. All these tales about "yes, it won’t change anything, there’s zero sense in these 10-15-20 cars, and logistics becomes more complicated" for those who are lazy to think and analyze, but live by what the TV says.
      The ESSENCE of what is happening is important here. And it is that they continue to wipe their feet about us, because our words are not supported by actions. They have been spitting about our type of kindness for a long time (we are such that we don’t want to break the connection, it’s kind of harmful to our business). It is important for them wherever they can spoil us. And we wipe ourselves off. Therefore, the hands of narrow-minded and stupid neighbors will continue to kill us. Because in the foreground is not our soldier, but the interests of business ...
      And I wouldn’t look at the connections, but indicatively the same French with the words “you crossed the red line and became a participant in the conflict” would kick out the entire embassy, ​​withdraw my own, indicatively redirect some thread of a pair of Topol batteries to Paris and bring to combat readiness. THEN they would have seen that the gap up to the declaration of war is not a fairy tale, but an action.
      Well, that's what I would do. That's all already - we saw who they really are, because here kissing in the gums in the future is impossible. We must defend our interests, and not wipe our snot and bury our guys killed by Western weapons ...
      We have enough resources to survive, as well as those who want to trade and be friends with us. Therefore, I would break with Europe and the Anglo-Saxons on the live, despite the threat of a real war (it has always been). For that, everyone else would see that we are not blue in words ...
      And so we are waiting, sir, in the near future, the entire range of Western weapons that will kill our guys ...
      Personally, my opinion hi

      That's right. Because then you still have to do it. These are now wheeled tanks, and then real ones. Everything to prevent ours from advancing. Everything to exhaust, kill more of ours. When there will be no one to fight on our side, then what?
      As soon as there is success on our part, they immediately compensate for it with new supplies.
      1. Raymond
        Raymond 17 January 2023 23: 18
        -4
        So maybe leave Ukraine?... I mean everyone...
    5. Thorvlobnor IV
      Thorvlobnor IV 17 January 2023 12: 43
      +1
      The ESSENCE of what is happening is important here. And it is that they continue to wipe their feet about us, because our words are not supported by actions. They have been spitting about our type of kindness for a long time (we are such that we don’t want to break the connection, it’s kind of harmful to our business). It is important for them wherever they can spoil us. And we wipe.


      Well, what is it "we wipe"? And who turned off gas / oil to the West? There, look how cold they are, chewing cat food. But now in Rossiyushka there will be cheap gasoline, even fill it up, like in Iran, and gas will be brought to every birch.
      1. Raymond
        Raymond 17 January 2023 23: 21
        0
        You are mistaken, there is always gasoline, gas and electricity, and we eat very well, cats too, but these are not the same thing.
    6. Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira
      Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira 17 January 2023 17: 46
      +2
      I will definitely support, because not only yours! The difference between word and deed is huge and very important!
      And then, as in the movie .... You immediately finish off or do you want to suffer?!
      In our case, we do not have time to suffer, it was necessary to beat for a long time.
    7. Nicola
      Nicola 17 January 2023 19: 51
      +1
      Everything is precisely said. All acts of good will are paid for with the lives of our guys.
    8. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 19 January 2023 00: 58
      +2
      Just under the USSR, the attitude towards such things was calm. The USSR supplied a variety of weapons (sometimes along with calculations) to Vietnam, the United States (and our "best friends" China and Iran, which they don’t like to remember now) to Afghanistan. No one threw tantrums and the embassy was not expelled. It was believed that if you are so cool that you are ready to fight, then you should also be ready for such things.
  4. Leader_Barmaleev
    Leader_Barmaleev 17 January 2023 05: 59
    +2
    A weighty caliber with powerful projectiles on a mobile chassis, equipped with a thermal imager? You need to hammer this, even when it is on railway platforms somewhere in the western regions of Ukraine. But such cases are not yet practiced in our country, so we will have to sort it out, as they say, on the ground.

    As the author correctly said, a tank is, first of all, a tank. If you are standing in an open field with one pistol, then even such an auto rickshaw made in the 20s of the last century is guaranteed to roll you away

    This is what I mean - with what will we go against these chariots? If, as always, it will be very sad. And if these HIGH-MOBILE cannons on wheels are opposed by MODERN HIGH-MOBILE FIGHTERS of similar iron, for example, Octopus SD in the required quantity, then that side will be sad. That's just the Octopuses are needed ...
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 17 January 2023 08: 14
      +3
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      This is what I mean - with what will we go against these chariots? .... for example Octopus SD in the required quantity

      I agree, Octopus SD, as an anti-tank gun, is probably a good thing. I hope that the existing samples will be tested in combat in Ukraine. I would suggest (as a fantasy winked ) is somewhat different. On the T-62-72 chassis already manufactured and standing at the storage bases, develop a combat module t.s. "assault" tank by installing a 152 mm gun with a reduced charge under tank protection, at a 10 km firing range, but with an aiming angle of up to 45 degrees. Such tanks should be used in the model and likeness of Wehrmacht assault guns. In the battalion-regimental level for direct support of SMEs. Such an attack aircraft is not an anti-tank weapon, although a stock of ATGMs could well be present in the BC. But 152 mm infantry support would not interfere at all. The Berlin operation showed that such weapons terrify the defenders. I think that even today such assistance in capturing the enemy's defensive lines would be "to the yard."
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 January 2023 10: 06
        +3
        For the described tasks, there is a 152-mm self-propelled gun 2S3 "Acacia". She would do well to add armor and at least gratings against cumulative ammunition. Already used for direct fire at enemy fortifications, and the video was posted.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 17 January 2023 14: 15
          +1
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          For the described tasks, there is a 152-mm self-propelled gun 2S3 "Acacia". She could use some armor

          That's the whole problem. It is impossible to book Akatsiya for tank and MS units to work in battle formation. The chassis will not pull, it will have to be redesigned and re-conduct the entire line of tests. The turret for a new combat module, I think, is easier to change. Analysts believe that Ukraine is just a warm-up before a big "fight". Therefore, conclusions and "correction of mistakes" must be made as quickly as possible... We must think how to make the most efficient use of what is already available and prepare these reserves for use today.
          1. Skeptic3
            Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 05
            +1
            Agree with your statement. Ukraine is a warm-up before the big fight over Taiwan.
            1. Negro
              Negro 17 January 2023 16: 22
              +1
              Quote: Skeptik3
              Ukraine is a warm-up before the big fight over Taiwan.

              )))
              Geopolitics is evil.
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 18 January 2023 16: 55
                0
                And that the Russian Federation is also included in the fight for Taiwan? It is, as it were, about the essential. Why do we need another front, overstrain?
          2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
            Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 January 2023 15: 46
            +1
            The tower will also then need to be booked additionally. I doubt that they will do this now, rather wishes for the future. Here, almost finished samples of the CAO 120-mm "Phlox" and 82-mm "Drok" have not yet appeared in the combat zone.
      2. parma
        parma 17 January 2023 11: 17
        -1
        Quote: Hagen
        Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
        This is what I mean - with what will we go against these chariots? .... for example Octopus SD in the required quantity

        I agree, Octopus SD, as an anti-tank gun, is probably a good thing. I hope that the existing samples will be tested in combat in Ukraine. I would suggest (as a fantasy winked ) is somewhat different. On the T-62-72 chassis already manufactured and standing at the storage bases, develop a combat module t.s. "assault" tank by installing a 152 mm gun with a reduced charge under tank protection, at a 10 km firing range, but with an aiming angle of up to 45 degrees. Such tanks should be used in the model and likeness of Wehrmacht assault guns. In the battalion-regimental level for direct support of SMEs. Such an attack aircraft is not an anti-tank weapon, although a stock of ATGMs could well be present in the BC. But 152 mm infantry support would not interfere at all. The Berlin operation showed that such weapons terrify the defenders. I think that even today such assistance in capturing the enemy's defensive lines would be "to the yard."

        You need to understand that such a course of the SVO as it is now (and, consequently, the need for "assault" guns) is due only to the fact that our army turned out to be not at all modern ... We do not have the strength and means to mess up the logistics of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as they do and deprive the enemy of the combat capability of DO storming the city, you have to squeeze out and fight off house after house! In other words, outside of our current NMD realities, such weapons will be unnecessary ... it is much more important to increase (if possible) the volume of surveillance, guidance and MODERN high-precision destruction ...
    2. parma
      parma 17 January 2023 08: 27
      +3
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      A weighty caliber with powerful projectiles on a mobile chassis, equipped with a thermal imager? You need to hammer this, even when it is on railway platforms somewhere in the western regions of Ukraine. But such cases are not yet practiced in our country, so we will have to sort it out, as they say, on the ground.

      As the author correctly said, a tank is, first of all, a tank. If you are standing in an open field with one pistol, then even such an auto rickshaw made in the 20s of the last century is guaranteed to roll you away

      This is what I mean - with what will we go against these chariots? If, as always, it will be very sad. And if these HIGH-MOBILE cannons on wheels are opposed by MODERN HIGH-MOBILE FIGHTERS of similar iron, for example, Octopus SD in the required quantity, then that side will be sad. That's just the Octopuses are needed ...

      Again, they decided to attach the “octopus” at least somehow ... in terms of armor, the octopus is no better than the Frenchman in question, what is it for at all? Hunt for armored cars? The tank copes well, and even a 100-mm OFZ BMP-3 is enough for the eyes ....
    3. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 17 January 2023 08: 49
      -1
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      This is what I mean - with what will we go against these chariots? If, as always, it will be very sad.

      Do not cry ahead of time, with the timely detection of this pepelats in the teeth even 2A42 BMP-2. Without even remembering the mass of anti-tank systems in defense.
      1. Negro
        Negro 17 January 2023 16: 31
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Do not cry ahead of time, with the timely detection of this pepelats in the teeth, even 2A42 BMP-2.

        BMP-2 is also tough for him.

        The question, as you correctly noted, is timely detection.
    4. matsur
      matsur 17 January 2023 11: 41
      +2
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      A weighty caliber with powerful projectiles on a mobile chassis, equipped with a thermal imager? You need to hammer this, even when it is on railway platforms somewhere in the western regions of Ukraine. But such cases are not yet practiced in our country, so we will have to sort it out, as they say, on the ground.

      As the author correctly said, a tank is, first of all, a tank. If you are standing in an open field with one pistol, then even such an auto rickshaw made in the 20s of the last century is guaranteed to roll you away

      This is what I mean - with what will we go against these chariots? If, as always, it will be very sad. And if these HIGH-MOBILE cannons on wheels are opposed by MODERN HIGH-MOBILE FIGHTERS of similar iron, for example, Octopus SD in the required quantity, then that side will be sad. That's just the Octopuses are needed ...

      Old lancets will also cope with such a reservation. It is necessary to improve reconnaissance and reduce the time from detection to opening fire. Well, increase the production of lancets. Yes, everything needs to be scaled up.
  5. AAC
    AAC 17 January 2023 06: 21
    +4
    Yes, any technology can cause a lot of problems. It would be desirable to make instructions indicating vulnerabilities. Even with an AK, you can break sights, periscopes, thermal imagers.
  6. svskor80
    svskor80 17 January 2023 06: 39
    +3
    You need to hammer this, even when it is on railway platforms somewhere in the western regions of Ukraine. But such cases are not yet practiced in our country, so we will have to sort it out, as they say, on the ground.

    Can we wait for this practice? According to the current logic, we will quickly get to the abrams of the latest modifications, F-35, etc.
    1. megavolt823
      megavolt823 17 January 2023 09: 08
      +3
      By grain deal. There, large ships enter and exit. And no one touches them. Bubble wins.
  7. Tank destroyerSU-100
    Tank destroyerSU-100 17 January 2023 08: 09
    -7
    Well, against tramps in slippers with "Kalash" and RPGs, this is a formidable force. But against troops saturated with artillery and armored vehicles, this will no longer be ice. If the same BMP-2 can put this under-tank from 3 km into a colander.
    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 January 2023 10: 10
      +10
      It is difficult to hit even from two kilometers from a 30-mm BMP-2 cannon. About 3 km is a clear exaggeration. Such a long-range target is more likely for ATGMs of the same BMP.
    2. spirit
      spirit 17 January 2023 12: 07
      +5
      If the same BMP-2 can put this under-tank from 3 km into a colander

      This "non-tank" has a panoramic sight, which most of our tanks do not even have 72b3. So if you do not exclude alternative sources of observation (copters, etc.), then the "blind" BMP 2/3 will be an excellent target for such a "non-tank" hi
  8. Tank destroyerSU-100
    Tank destroyerSU-100 17 January 2023 08: 13
    +7
    Quote: svskor80
    You need to hammer this, even when it is on railway platforms somewhere in the western regions of Ukraine. But such cases are not yet practiced in our country, so we will have to sort it out, as they say, on the ground.

    Can we wait for this practice? According to the current logic, we will quickly get to the abrams of the latest modifications, F-35, etc.

    Exactly. For the gesheft of business groups that continue to drive Russian resources to the West through Ukro-Reich is sacred to the Kremlin. That is why all Western equipment on inviolable railway lines freely reaches the front line. And kills our people. And since the inhabitants of the Kremlin have none of their relatives on the front line, they do not care deeply about these deaths.
  9. IVZ
    IVZ 17 January 2023 08: 40
    +6
    Firstly, the AMX-10RC/RCR, unlike many wheeled armored vehicles with multi-axle chassis, can turn like a tank.
    Not certainly in that way. The vehicle was developed on the basis of the AMX-10R tracked infantry fighting vehicle and was maximally unified with it in terms of engine and transmission. The result is the absence of steerable wheels and the ability to turn exclusively along the tank. Poor handling on soft soils and slippery surfaces, the impossibility of more or less high-speed cornering and increased tire wear are a consequence of this decision. It was originally developed as a land gunboat for the In. Legion and RRF with an eye to use in Africa.
    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 17 January 2023 16: 06
      +1
      If this is the case, then the chassis is absolutely miserable, completely unsuitable for off-road and slush. They will get stuck worse than the overweight Ukrainian BTR-4.
    2. nks
      nks 17 January 2023 16: 29
      +1
      "Not certainly in that way"
      Engine - yes, because they are in the same weight class. The rest is different. Moreover, a strong one is for 10P torsion bars, and for 10RC hydropneumatics. Scheme with fixed wheels
      provides a U-turn on the spot and relative simplicity. A similar option with turning wheels can be implemented, but it will be much more complicated. With handling and patency there are norms.


      By the way, he did not have any special problems in the Iraqi Gulf War (this is already a comment on the article)
      1. IVZ
        IVZ 17 January 2023 18: 47
        +1
        Moreover, a strong one is for 10P torsion bars, and for 10RC hydropneumatics
        Well, naturally. the suspension of a tracked vehicle cannot be unified with a wheeled chassis ..
        Scheme with fixed wheels
        provides turn on the spot and relative simplicity
        As for simplicity, the statement is very controversial, there are no side clutches there. U-turn on the spot, it is sometimes useful, but just sometimes. Strongly sometimes.
        1. nks
          nks 17 January 2023 21: 15
          +1
          Quote: IVZ
          the suspension of a tracked vehicle cannot be unified with a wheeled chassis

          It is possible, although not completely. At the same time, you could read beyond the first paragraph of the wiki (or what did you watch there?) And find out that the MTB from 10P is no longer relevant.

          Quote: IVZ
          As for simplicity, the statement is very controversial, there are no side clutches there.

          Indisputable. I pointed relativity - there is no mechanism for turning the wheels - those are simpler than any such option.
          Quote: IVZ
          U-turn on the spot, it is sometimes useful, but just sometimes. Strongly sometimes.

          Perhaps, but this is a tactical question, not a technical one.
          1. IVZ
            IVZ 18 January 2023 08: 06
            +1
            I very rarely use the wiki. At one time we had "Information Collections" and published more or less verified information there. If you are a specialist, you certainly have the right to have no doubt that the wheel turning mechanism in combination with a standard transmission is more complicated than a tank two-line differential type turning mechanism with a transmission - onboard type power transmission. With professionals, as well as with amateurs, I do not argue. Good luck to you.
            1. nks
              nks 18 January 2023 16: 08
              +1
              Quote: IVZ
              I very rarely use the wiki.

              By the way, in vain - a good and powerful means of obtaining information, if you know how to use it.
              Quote: IVZ
              combined with standard transmission

              What does "standard" mean? Did you expect a transmission from Renault Twingo there? This is a 6x6 military all-terrain vehicle. Once again I repeat, I quite accurately indicated "relativity". I don't understand why you have such problems with reading.
              Quote: IVZ
              Good luck to you.

              Of course, all the best to you too!
    3. Raymond
      Raymond 17 January 2023 23: 32
      +2
      Believe it or not, I worked as a mechanic on the AMX 10 P (tracked armored personnel carrier) and AMX 10 RC (wheeled guns). They spin the same way, but the wheeled one is better with Citroen-style suspension and all-wheel drive. It is rated at 85 km/h but can go faster.
      1. IVZ
        IVZ 18 January 2023 07: 50
        +1
        This is luck.
        Poor handling on soft soils and slippery surfaces, the impossibility of more or less high-speed cornering and increased tire wear are a consequence of this decision.
        Everywhere they write about it. Can you comment based on your own experience? Just wondering how much you can trust specialists - experts.
        1. Raymond
          Raymond 18 January 2023 23: 02
          0
          Grip with the ground depends on the surface area and the coefficient of friction. The coefficient of friction is favorable for a tire, unfavorable for a steel track. Conversely, a track provides more surface area while a tire does not. Therefore, the manufacturer chose tires with variable tire pressure even while driving, which allows the surface area in contact with the ground to change depending on the terrain. There are many advantages: in winter, it does not stick to frozen soil, like a caterpillar, sand, dirt or pebbles do not get into the slush and do not break the mesh. All wheels are driven, without a differential, and the suspension has a height-adjustable geometry. You can drive with flat tires, seeing one less wheel on each side.
      2. nks
        nks 18 January 2023 16: 12
        +1
        Did you do other wheeled vehicles? The same VAB? It is really interesting what actual additional tire wear such a scheme gives, because VAB seems to have the same wheels. That there is additional wear is undeniable, but I wonder what kind.
        Well, in general, how much more maintenance work and actual problems on the chassis does the AMX 10RC have compared to the VAB, which is simpler in this sense?
        1. Raymond
          Raymond 18 January 2023 23: 08
          +2
          VAB is not the same concept. It has only four wheels, including two steering wheels, all leading. This is NBC, and this is also a troop transport.
          VAB is equipped with a mid-engine and hydraulic transmission, it is a light and fast vehicle (>110 km/h) on the road.

          On the AMX, maintenance is very easy because the engine is located front, transverse (like in a car), the engine is raised and mounted outside the car, in front and on its mounts, we can even start the engine while it is still running. outside the body (all hoses are wound ). The new engine is better than the old hispano suiza which was V-shaped.
          Tire wear is similar to that of the rear of a VAB. The tire design is special and the rubber can be recycled or replaced when cold. It is also possible to attach the tires with a winter chain or even put on a soft caterpillar that covers all three wheels, but I have never had to do this.
          1. nks
            nks 18 January 2023 23: 19
            +1
            Thanks a lot. It turns out that you completed the answer, and I answered an incomplete message. Now there are no more questions
            1. Raymond
              Raymond 18 January 2023 23: 53
              +1
              The lighter four-wheeled VAB Saviem consumes more tires in the front.
              The Panhard 6 x 6 version is heavier and has an additional axle, the front wheels are oriented. It also consumes more tires front and rear and less in the middle.

              The AMX 10 RC consumes its 6 tires in the same way, except when it is used on the road, where rear wheel drive consumes slightly more than a VAB 4x4 (ripage).

              Easier to maintain 10 RC, turret and engine fail in less than 4 hours.
              1. IVZ
                IVZ 19 January 2023 12: 29
                0
                Thanks for a really interesting and detailed answer.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. BAI
    BAI 17 January 2023 09: 16
    0
    To combat Western armored vehicles, it is necessary to revive laser systems for detecting and destroying optics. After all, we were armed. At the request of Geyropa removed. Not humane - a sniper's eye can hurt. Killing a person is humane, but hurting an eye is not.
    Destroy the optics and there will be a blind iron box on the battlefield
    1. IVZ
      IVZ 17 January 2023 10: 28
      +4
      Belarusians around 2012. a laser emitter was brought from BelOMO to blind observers and snipers. A device the size of theater binoculars. According to the naked eye 1000m with temporary loss of vision, according to optics - complete and permanent loss of vision. The instrument was mounted on a picatinny rail.
      1. Negro
        Negro 17 January 2023 16: 33
        +2
        Quote: IVZ
        Belarusians around 2012. a laser emitter was brought from BelOMO to blind observers and snipers. A device the size of theater binoculars. According to the naked eye 1000m with temporary loss of vision, according to optics - complete and permanent loss of vision

        Modern shooting optics and any televisions on equipment are protected from this. And since the 80s.
        1. IVZ
          IVZ 17 January 2023 19: 00
          0
          Modern shooting optics and any televisions on equipment are protected from this. And since the 80s.
          That such protection exists here You are right. But that it is widely used and provides effective protection, I have doubts. At least, I didn’t come across these items in the requirements for optical devices, although I’m not an optician, although I’m familiar with several devices, but when optics manufacturers advertised their products to us, information about the presence of such protection was never announced.
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 17 January 2023 09: 27
    0
    Transfer of “wheeled tanks” AMX-10RC to Ukraine: far from useless toys
    . And who says that they are completely useless ... problematic equipment and, in principle, cannot affect anything ...
    Something like this.
  13. South Ukrainian
    South Ukrainian 17 January 2023 09: 43
    +3
    .A serious flaw in the form of an unstabilized gun can significantly affect the firing capabilities of a French product,

    If these products appear at the front, in 90% of cases they will be used as self-propelled guns. And, of course, they will bring their portion of harm.
  14. Maks1995
    Maks1995 17 January 2023 10: 19
    +4
    HPP in action.
    Countries are convinced that Russia is stuck, and begin to supply heavy weapons.
    Quietly, so as not to scare.
  15. Pavel57
    Pavel57 17 January 2023 11: 27
    +1
    It makes sense to use a pole tank from ambush, whoever saw it first, won. In other dueling situations, his chances drop drastically.
    1. Negro
      Negro 17 January 2023 15: 55
      -2
      Armored cars are not intended for "other duel situations" involving tanks. In fact, we see an infantry support vehicle, like Nona, but with a full-fledged cannon and not a semi-mortar.
  16. matsur
    matsur 17 January 2023 11: 43
    +4
    In general, the article is interesting by its very existence. Without hats. At least someone is thinking.
  17. AlexWar
    AlexWar 17 January 2023 12: 06
    +1
    Such a wheeled tank can move quickly along the roads. 80 kilometers per hour.
  18. AlexWar
    AlexWar 17 January 2023 12: 08
    -2
    Give such tanks to the brave lads from Ukraine who will squeeze all the juice out of the tank on the battlefield.
    They will prance around the field in tanks. They will weld hatches there again. A bandage on the forehead with the sign of a wild pig, they also have chevrons with a wild pig
  19. APASUS
    APASUS 17 January 2023 13: 17
    +1
    A highly specialized projectile will add a lot of trouble. I would not be surprised if both repair and maintenance have features. Like all equipment from France
  20. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 13: 28
    0
    Quote: Comrade
    Better to just be silent. And then at first they threaten, and then they don’t fulfill their threat, so they laugh at us. There is nothing worse than an unfulfilled threat.

    Absolutely agree. They exposed themselves to ridicule.

    But, before proposing retaliatory action, it would be good to first consider the consequences.
    For example:
    "To try foreign mercenaries" means to throw Russian servicemen into captivity, who will be tried there in the same way.
    "Close the French Embassy" - this means that the Russian Embassy in France will be closed. That will complicate negotiations, including the prevention of nuclear incidents.
    "Point missiles at Paris" - they are always pointed there. What does it change?

    The list of proposed responses is, sorry, untenable.
    Wouldn't it be better to just keep quiet? Maybe they would pass for smart. The same applies to authorities.
  21. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 13: 54
    +3
    Quote from U_GOREC
    Zelensky was afraid to show his nose from the bunker

    You don't confuse him with anyone?
  22. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 08
    0
    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
    For the described tasks, there is a 152-mm self-propelled gun 2S3 "Acacia". She would do well to add armor and at least gratings against cumulative ammunition. Already used for direct fire at enemy fortifications, and the video was posted.


    You are frankly confusing the functions of self-propelled guns and tanks.
  23. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 09
    0
    Quote: Comrade
    And, most likely, the French themselves will fight on these machines, as well as repair them.

    In your dreams. You are simply ashamed to admit that we are losing to Ukraine.
  24. Mustached Kok
    Mustached Kok 17 January 2023 15: 14
    +1
    I would separately note that this machine +/-, having come into the possession of the IED until February, will play well. Who would not say anything, but Ukraine is a rather urbanized region. 70 years of Soviet leadership have taken their toll on Ukraine in the form of building a dense road and rail network. And in combination with the flat terrain of half of the territory of Ukraine (through which 90% of the front line now passes), such a wheeled vehicle will be capable of being effective due to high mobility in such terrain. Groups of such vehicles will be able to quickly retreat to the weak points of our defense, strike, and quickly retreat. The tactics are similar to those that are now used on their armored personnel carriers and armored vehicles. Like modern "carts". Only now they will also include a "wheeled tank", which will significantly expand the possibilities of implementing the tactics of mobile groups. After all, the AMX cannon is capable of cracking down even with reinforced infantry fighting vehicles. And in the case of entering the rear or flank, such a machine is already capable of seriously damaging or even destroying tanks in the sides or stern.

    But all this works until the spring blossom has come. After all, then the road network will drastically lose weight due to the fact that the primers will turn into swamps, through which it can be difficult for even tracked vehicles to go. And the fields will no longer be a solid basis for movement.

    In fact, France may not only be executing a minimum program to maintain IEDs and prolong the conflict. But he also wants, while the weather permits, to test the effectiveness of such equipment for the steppe region of Ukraine. If they manage to show themselves worthy, then expect a sharp increase in the supply of such "wheeled tanks" to Ukraine in late spring and early summer, at a time when, due to the absence of mudslides, it will be able to implement mobile defense and attack tactics to the maximum on the steppes of Ukraine.
    1. Raymond
      Raymond 17 January 2023 23: 39
      -1
      This is old equipment (previous generation) and is being replaced by more modern models.
  25. garik77
    garik77 17 January 2023 15: 18
    -1
    Quote: Skeptik3
    Because I am ashamed to admit to myself that we cannot defeat Ukraine. And we invent a "solid" enemy who is not on the battlefield.

    You don't have to invent something that doesn't exist. The goal of Russia is not to storm Kyiv, but to destroy the Ukrainian military machine with minimal losses.
    We, too, can declare a general mobilization, create several Ukrainian fronts, lift the entire aviation fleet into the air, and so on. etc. It will be much faster, but the losses will be huge. Why do we need it?
    1. Negro
      Negro 17 January 2023 15: 29
      +3
      Quote: garik77
      We, too, can declare a general mobilization, create several Ukrainian fronts, lift the entire aviation fleet into the air, and so on. etc.

      Can you really?
  26. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 26
    +2
    Quote: garik77
    Russia's goal is not to storm Kyiv,

    You are denying the obvious. NVO began with a landing in Gostomel and an attempt to storm the center of Kyiv. The main task of the first day of the SVO was the physical elimination of Zelensky, following the example of the elimination of Amin in Kabul in 1978. I am sure that it was that operation that served as an example for the General Staff, which tried to repeat it.
    1. Negro
      Negro 17 January 2023 15: 46
      +2
      Quote: Skeptik3
      you deny the obvious

      These are your fantasies.
      Quote: Skeptik3
      The main task of the first day of the NWO was the physical elimination of Zelensky, following the example of the elimination of Amin in Kabul in 1978

      The only way to "eliminate Zelensky" was to gobble up Iskander. And not an assault on a multi-million city with one company. During the assault on Amin's palace, Soviet comrades hung out at his palace for almost a week, like a guard of honor from Soviet friends. But Zelensky, for all his peculiarities, was not a friend of Russia - it was not so easy to betray him as Amina.
      1. solar
        solar 17 January 2023 22: 28
        0
        The only way to "eliminate Zelensky" was to gobble up Iskander.

        Where to "hang out"? Do you think he was sitting on the third floor and waiting? In Kyiv (and not only in Kyiv), the military has plenty of protected bunkers since Soviet times.
      2. Raymond
        Raymond 17 January 2023 23: 43
        0
        Are you saying that Russia is not a true friend?
  27. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 29
    0
    Quote: garik77
    We can also announce a general mobilization

    We already announced it in September. There are no restrictions in the decree on mobilization. The word "partial" is just a lie. They recruited as many as they could (in terms of providing the mobilized with weapons, housing, food, training and officers).
    1. vova1910
      vova1910 18 January 2023 00: 02
      +2
      Quote: Skeptik3
      The word "partial" is just a lie

      How so? Are the authorities lying? I don’t believe, honest, noble people can’t tell a lie like that
  28. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 51
    +2
    Quote: Negro
    These are your fantasies.

    Landing in Gostomel in the very first hours of the NWO is my fantasy? Oh well.
    1. Negro
      Negro 17 January 2023 19: 26
      0
      Quote: Skeptik3
      Landing in Gostomel in the very first hours of the Northern Military District

      The connection of the landing with the person of Zelensky is your fantasy.
  29. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 15: 56
    0
    Quote: Negro
    The only way to "eliminate Zelensky" was to gobble up Iskander. And not an assault on a multi-million city with one company. During the assault on Amin's palace, Soviet comrades hung out at his palace for almost a week, like a guard of honor from Soviet friends.


    The possibility of a strike by Iskander probably existed. But it was meaningless, because. they need to hit exactly where the target is. This very location was not known.

    Yes, Amin was killed as a result of the storming of the palace by several hundred people. It is a shame not to know or deliberately deny the history of your country.
    1. Negro
      Negro 17 January 2023 16: 02
      -1
      Quote: Skeptik3
      Yes, Amin was killed as a result of the storming of the palace by several hundred people. It is a shame not to know or deliberately deny the history of your country.

      And how do you think these several hundred people with armored vehicles ended up in the capital of a neighboring country?
      The possibility of a strike by Iskander probably existed. But it was meaningless, because. they need to hit exactly where the target is. This very location was not known.

      Stopudovo is easier to send three hundred people to storm the city of three million.
  30. Skeptic3
    Skeptic3 17 January 2023 16: 04
    +1
    Quote: Negro
    And how do you think these several hundred people with armored vehicles ended up in the capital of a neighboring country?

    Have you been banned from Wikipedia?
    1. Negro
      Negro 17 January 2023 17: 07
      -1
      There it is written. The conspirators were listed as the guards of Amin's palace.
  31. FPEDDI_KPYGEP
    FPEDDI_KPYGEP 17 January 2023 16: 06
    -2
    ushlyok
    This technique had to be transferred to the DPR and LPR to protect their territorial integrity and security.
  32. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 17 January 2023 16: 08
    0
    See how they will be used. The surest thing is ambushes and a quick change of position. And so, even 12,7 with armor-piercing ammunition can be problematic.
  33. evgen1221
    evgen1221 17 January 2023 16: 33
    -4
    The more specific the machine, the more difficult it is to train the crew to use the features of this machine. There is no time to train the Sumerians, they will drive like ordinary infantry fighting vehicles, because there is no year to train crews, as well as extra crews. They sent me stupidly to test in the mud,
    1. Negro
      Negro 17 January 2023 17: 08
      +3
      Quote: evgen1221
      train the crew to use the features of this machine. There is no time to train the Sumerians

      Where did the time go?
  34. Sergey Egorov_3
    Sergey Egorov_3 17 January 2023 18: 46
    +1
    Yes, everyone will transfer there, wait a minute and the planes will start transferring, they invested heavily there, losing will be a collapse, both political and reputational, so f 16 will appear soon
  35. Dart2027
    Dart2027 17 January 2023 19: 38
    +1
    Still, the AMX-10RC/RCR is a specific machine.
    It's just self-propelled guns on a wheeled chassis.
  36. hostel
    hostel 17 January 2023 20: 26
    0
    Here they clung to buoyancy. You see, this is bad, and if you have to cross, and the pontoons are late, but the situation requires what we will do.
    In addition, there were so many prophets that the towed artillery died, but it is fighting on both sides.
  37. fox cake
    fox cake 17 January 2023 22: 20
    0
    Quote: Civil
    Quote: Aerodrome
    if the SVO drags on for another year, they will fight specifically with Western PMCs and specialists, with all the equipment, that is, World War 3 will unwind.

    Not at all. Vietnam War, Korean War. Afghanistan. Nowhere did World War 3 break out. And the strength and firmness there were an order of magnitude higher.

    Without a well-trained crew and competent use, it is just a difficult toy. Most likely, the enemy will use it as an offensive armored vehicle. That is, the battle path will not be long. Waiting for Leclerc.

    Neither Vietnam, nor Korean, nor Afghan was conducted on the territory and next to a strange proxy, so it makes no sense to compare with what has not happened yet, and all the chances of starting a third world and nuclear war are now much higher than ever before. Too bad people are stupid enough not to understand this. Here the whole question is just how long will all this go until NATO stops. Maybe before the first nuclear strikes, people will come to their senses, but people are very stupid these days, so it's not a fact.
    1. Negro
      Negro 18 January 2023 09: 05
      0
      Quote from FoxTort
      Neither Vietnamese, nor Korean, nor Afghan was conducted on the territory and next to the strange proxy

      Find out where Afghanistan and Korea are located.
      Quote from FoxTort
      all chances of starting a third world and nuclear are now much higher than ever before. Too bad people are stupid enough not to understand this.

      Two deaths do not happen, but one can not escape.
      Quote from FoxTort
      Here the whole question is just how long will all this go until NATO stops.

      Or the Russian Federation will not stop. - in the end, the leadership of the Russian Federation is also indifferent to the result of the NWO, as well as the leadership of NATO. Or Shoigu will not run out of his 25 million, since the losses of the Russians for the leadership of the Russian Federation are as indifferent as the losses of the Ukrainians for the leadership of NATO.
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. Radikal
    Radikal 18 January 2023 00: 58
    +1
    Quote: paul3390
    "you crossed the red line and became a participant in the conflict" would have kicked out the entire embassy, ​​would have withdrawn your own, pointedly redirected a pair of Topol batteries to Paris and put it on alert.

    I think that all this public should simply be taken care of to the limit with their household chores .. Supply weapons for free to everyone who is not satisfied with them. In Africa, Asia. To work closely with the Arabs and Negroes, who still live in Geyrop. Something they are not very actively fighting for their rights.. We need to help. And so on.

    And when the same jackets begin to be thrown out of the former colonies, and an armed uprising of rabies begins in Paris, then they will leave us behind. Being overwhelmed to the very tonsils with their own problems .. Above this - and we must actively work. A debt - it is red in payment. Isn't it all the same for us to spoil under the door?

    To implement the tasks you indicated, you need a state, and institutions of the level of the USSR, namely the Soviet Army, with its arsenals, and, accordingly, the KGB, which had all the capabilities that you mentioned. bully
  40. Vladimir Alekseev 1971
    Vladimir Alekseev 1971 18 January 2023 10: 22
    -1
    I'm sure that one good shot from the Fagot Pturs will not leave any chance for this wheeled tank .. and a simple RPG-7 or RPG-18 will be enough for him to disable it ..
  41. Swarotwar Hort
    Swarotwar Hort 18 January 2023 10: 42
    -1
    In the steppes of the Wild Field, an excellent mafia. There will be no problems with the staff. Crowds of locals serve or have served in the Foreign Legion. The light carts of Father Makhno rolled out everyone they wanted. On the Kharkov front in the fall, the Ukrainians showed that "cavalry attacks" are very effective against the heirs of the KA. Macron initially promised 300 of these muffins. And it will be a very unpleasant thing on lbs. Unlike tanks, they are on wheels. That's where they need to be hit. And blow up the bridges at the moment of passing the echelons with the "French" and leopards.
  42. Vashek
    Vashek 18 January 2023 14: 43
    -1
    Actually made for the desert self-propelled gun. Armor: forehead level 6 of the NATO standard STANAG 4569 (from a 30 mm projectile), the rest is level 3 from a 12,7 mm bullet. It is useful to meet the T-62 with a 115 mm gun and a machine with an AU220M module (57 mm). It'll work out well.
  43. Essex62
    Essex62 18 January 2023 17: 07
    0
    With all the shortcomings, this is a mobile and powerful self-propelled gun. And she will chop up the dishes pretty well with us. The Teutons, in WW2, shoved cannons at everything that moves and this gave them a fire advantage for the entire initial period.
  44. VOENOBOZ
    VOENOBOZ 19 January 2023 10: 17
    0
    Will the rapier take it? If she is a cannon and one tank, whose advantage?
  45. Helmsman
    Helmsman 19 January 2023 14: 33
    -1
    Whether we want to or not, the West is pushing us to use tactical nuclear weapons. Limited but useful. Not tomorrow, not after tomorrow, but I think in small steps they are moving towards it.
  46. Alex_mech
    Alex_mech 19 January 2023 18: 14
    0
    Atypical article. Apparently, the editors finally heard the readers and Kirill Ryabov published an opinion different from "bad, little, nothing can replace, ha ha ha"
  47. sopot
    sopot 21 January 2023 09: 14
    0
    The author, wondered what the word is, "clash", bl ...?
    Read the Battle Regulations, uncle!