Military Review

Su-35SM: what will happen tomorrow?

224
Su-35SM: what will happen tomorrow?

We can say that this is a direct continuation of the topic about the Su-27 (link), since the Su-35 is really a continuation of the Su-27, and what a one!


In fact, the Su-35 began to be born when the Su-27 was just gaining its authority in the world, in the early 80s of the last century. It is worth recalling that the Su-27 was conceived solely as an air defense fighter-interceptor or an Air Force fighter. That is, maneuverable air combat with enemy aircraft without any shock problems there. Narrow specialization, so to speak.

And what is most interesting, despite numerous attempts to "teach" the Su-27 to use air-to-surface missiles, bombs, anti-ship missiles, all this eventually remained at the level of options, because, in fact, the Su-27 did not have this main thing: specialized means for detecting and recognizing ground targets. Well, the relatively low efficiency of unguided weapons in the end left the Su-27 almost the last "clean" fighter in the world.

But he had something that many other aircraft could only wish for: simply stunning range, excellent maneuverability and a good range of weapons to defeat any aircraft in any conditions.

It is not in vain that the British were frankly frightened when the Su-27 "accidentally" sent a missile somewhere. RC-135 had to be washed inside after the flight.


Su-35, and speaking specifically, in our case, the Su-35S is, first of all, a multifunctional fighter, no matter what generation. In one of the articles, I took the liberty of calling it a reasonable compromise between desires and possibilities, and I think that I turned out to be completely right about this car.

Indeed, what could be simpler and more efficient - to take the glider of the best 4th generation fighter and insert there all the latest that was available, including PAK FA developments. Well, "invisibility" was not delivered, so it is, invisibility, and now it is very so-so. Even those who are really "stealth". If you really need it, they'll see it.

So the experiment on the total processing of the “clean” Su-27 fighter into the universal Su-35 turned out in full. A plane came out, which is only slightly inferior to the 5th generation fighters, and who compared it in battle? Here the question is somewhat different, it might be worth checking, but the price of 5th generation machines does not provide for such experiments. It is enough how many in the USA the same F-35s are ruined in routine flights and how much it takes off. And speaking of combat...

In order to talk about what can be proposed as improvements for the Su-35SM (as it seems to be called), it is worth evaluating the difference between the Su-27 and Su-35.

Su-35 is pretty (6 tons) heavier. The weight went to strengthen the airframe (which entailed an increase in resource) and an increase in payload. The 35th takes 11 kg of fuel against 500 from the 9400th. Tanks in keels are generally original. By the way, the main external difference between the Su-27 and the Su-35 was born right there - the front landing gear with a double wheel.

Armament, or rather, its weight, remained at the same level, all the same 8 tons. But you can not deny yourself anything, except for conventional air-to-air missiles, you can hang everything that the weapon control system “gobbles up”, up to the suspension of the Yakhont anti-ship missiles in a lightweight air version.


The AL-41F1S engines provide a maximum speed of up to 2500 km/h, which makes the Su-35 one of the fastest aircraft in the world, and its supersonic non-afterburning flight generally puts it on the podium in this regard. Plus a controlled thrust vector. Now, of course, many models have this extremely useful option in the design, but here is the question of “running in”.

Questions of automation. An intermediate link in the evolution between the Su-27 and Su-35 is the Su-30. Our first wagon capable of working for any purpose. But in the Su-30, weapons systems, including high-precision ones, were controlled by a second crew member. The Su-35 allows the pilot to both control the machine and use weapons.

True, this is not in the usual sense. The Su-35 control system works in such a way that the pilot not only controls the aircraft, but rather informs the computer system about his intentions to perform this or that maneuver. The computer calculates the options and issues an instruction to the control system, which is already using aerodynamic control surfaces and rotary engine nozzles. For an aerodynamically unstable aircraft - rescue plus a bonus is super-maneuverability.

The same goes for weapon control. That is, the pilot in the Su-35 is quite capable of working for two and at the same time working quite efficiently. As for countering the enemy, this has long been implemented, the system, receiving “hello” from sensors, automatically turns on electronic warfare modules or starts throwing heat traps. Well, at least she should.

And yes, one crew member instead of two is a weight saving of 1,5 tons. Armchair, catapult, controls…

An important thing is the H036 radar with a phased antenna array. Quite powerful for a fighter (20 watts), able to see far and clearly. The unmasking factor is also relevant, but here the question is the response of all systems. It would be interesting to look at the confrontation between the less noticeable F-000 and the weaker radar (the American has something around 35 watts) on the subject of “who was there before”.

In general - a huge work, stretching for several decades. Now it's time for another step forward on the path of improvements and upgrades. What can be done here to keep the Su-35 among the best aircraft in the world?


Here there would be no happiness, but misfortune helped. In fact, we can say that the Russian Aerospace Forces "flew" with the Su-57. We will not go into details of why we never saw this aircraft in service with the Aerospace Forces, in fact, what difference does it make what became an obstacle? The result is important: the fifth-generation fighter did not become one, and, obviously, it will not be very soon, if at all. At least while the United States and China are churning out their new generation aircraft in batches, we have complete silence.

But maybe it's even better that way. Today we have such a situation that the Russian army is the world's leading army in terms of having "unparalleled in the world" weapons.

But we have the development of this very “not having”, some of which can definitely be used to modernize existing equipment. And since we are not destined to see our “flying Armata” in service, why not send the developments on the T-50 into service by installing it on the Su-35SM?

The new generation radar H036 "Belka" is good in reviews. It is very difficult to judge whether it can surpass the American AN / APG-81, which is installed on the F-35, there is no data to make a sane comparison. But the claimed 400 km range compared to 300 km for the American radar is a serious statement.

N036 consists of three components, in fact, N036-1-01 X-band in the bow, N036B-1-01 X-band as a side-looking radar and N036L-1-01 L-band on the flaps. Almost everything is like that of the Americans, which cannot but rejoice, since our achievements in the field of radio electronics are not what we would like. X-band radars are very effective against stealth aircraft, which have a lot of composite materials in their design.

Some sources talk about the installation of a certain Irbis-E product on the Su-35SM, if it is H036 adapted for this aircraft, everything is fine. Of course, we will not comment on some things such as the range of the radar "five times higher than that of the Irbis-E" and leave it behind the scenes, as well as the fact that "Irbis-E has outstripped the whole world by 20 years." It would be just great if the new radars are just world-class, without the usual "not having ..." hysteria.

Engines. AL-41FM or something else is a big question, since in general it would be nice to change the AL-41F1S with electromechanical control (exactly standing on the Su-35S) to AL-41F1 with a digital control system. In addition, the AL-41F1 is 500 kgf more powerful. A trifle, but nice, or rather, there are no trifles here. As in air combat, weapons are never at least enough.


Armament. It has already been announced here that the main striking power of the Su-35SM will be the R-37M and R-77M missiles. The R-37M is a very unpleasant thing from the point of view of the enemy, 60 kg of warhead, flight speed of 6M and a range of more than 300 km (in many sources up to 400 km). The missile is good for attacking large targets such as strategic bombers and AWACS aircraft, tankers and other targets. The fighter will most likely leave her, the only question here is the range to the target at the time of launch. 4 rockets is a decent supply.


R-77M - weapon close combat, if 160 km can be called that. The main targets for the R-77M are highly maneuverable fighters, helicopters, and cruise missiles. The modern active seeker with AFAR makes evasion problematic even at long distances, the rocket is "tenacious". 8 rockets on knots is more than enough to solve most problems in the air.

EW. After the Khibiny did not show themselves at all in the NWO, more precisely, they showed their complete helplessness, especially in automatic mode, it remains to rely on developments on the PAK FA theme. That is, the Himalayas.

To what extent the Himalayas may turn out to be better than the Khibiny, we will not say, since there are no grounds and reliable information for this. In general, the question is, what could be worse than Khibiny?

If the elements of the electronic warfare system are really interfaced with the Belka radar through the weapons control complex, this can really play well in favor of the Su-35SM, giving the aircraft the main thing - protection from enemy missiles in automatic mode. If not, it’s sad, but in a bad scenario, the elements of the Himalayas, hidden under the skin of the aircraft, unlike the Khibiny, will not provide additional aerodynamic resistance and worsen the flight performance of the aircraft.

And more about electronics. In 2021, with a huge delay from the schedule, Ruselectronics nevertheless introduced the S-111 communication system, which provides hack-proof data exchange between aircraft, drones and command posts on the ground and in the sky. The system was developed for the Su-57, but why not use it to upgrade the Su-35SM?

In general, everything that was developed within the framework of the PAK FA program can and should be tried by all means to shove into the Su-35. We are not able to give the Aerospace Forces the proper number of Su-57s, there is no money for this, no capacities, no workers with the necessary qualifications. This is all clear. The fifth generation fighter is a toy for armies, where huge sums are spent on weapons, that is, not for us.


There is a difference between doing business in the defense industry and arming your army. And it is very large, just look at how things are going in China and the United States. And this comparison is not at all in favor of the Americans.

If we do not have the strength and ability to put into practice all these "analogues", then it makes sense to squeeze everything out of the old Soviet legacy to the maximum. Actually, what our military-industrial complex mainly does. In addition to missiles, sorry, nothing new is foreseen in our country.

And therefore, since the engineers have at their disposal the Su-27 glider, which is simply crazy in quality, on its basis it is possible and necessary to continue creating models that can be at least on par with Western technology until something changes in the country. Which I personally highly doubt.


Therefore, the once again modernized Su-27, that is, the Su-35, produced in sufficient quantities, capable of replacing the Su-27P and Su-27SM, is exactly what our Aerospace Forces need.
Author:
224 comments
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 22 December 2022 05: 19
    +44
    Su-27: what will happen tomorrow?
    ... attach any symbols, numbers, and letters to this masterpiece, it's all the same, an indicator of military technical thought, and the industry of the country that created such a miracle, this country is the USSR. dozens! years, its developments are used, or solutions based on them. In truth, it was the time of the Giants.
    1. YOUR
      YOUR 22 December 2022 05: 46
      +3
      Su-35SM: what will happen tomorrow?

      Yes, nothing will happen. Judging by how the Su-57 is produced. They will tell you as well as about the fleet that you yourself see how it was in the NWO with aviation and the fleet. This is a passed stage, it is necessary to develop something cosmic and underground.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 22 December 2022 11: 36
        -11
        those. yesterday you didn’t watch Putin’s speech and didn’t add up 2 + 2? just the videoconferencing will develop and we can expect new products for aviation
        1. YOUR
          YOUR 22 December 2022 11: 43
          +19
          Something I can't believe anymore. Because there were so many of these speeches, so many promises
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 22 December 2022 12: 15
            -18
            promises are kept, it's just that people here think that they can say today, but in the morning it will be done
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 22 December 2022 12: 22
              +11
              Quote: Barberry25
              promises are kept, it's just that people here think that they can say today, but in the morning it will be done

              I would like to know what year in the morning.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 22 December 2022 12: 29
                -12
                everyone ... there is a moment that it is always accepted in our country that "let Putin think, but we will not." What to say if Putin is forced to remind the generals that the NVO is going on and that it is necessary to revise attitudes towards procurement ...
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 22 December 2022 12: 32
                  +13
                  Did it become clear only now? Before that, it was not clear, and it was not necessary. So?
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 22 December 2022 12: 50
                    -8
                    this has been clear for a long time and has been said many times, but we like to tell in the kitchen what good fellows everyone is, and not take responsibility at work. This is the problem. the question was "a little" squandered .. but for some reason our generals are eternal fellows.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 22 December 2022 13: 11
                      +15
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      .but for some reason our generals are eternal fellows.

                      Our main fellow is Shoyga. What a pop...
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 22 December 2022 13: 24
                        -15
                        and we have one minister responsible for everything? I don’t justify Shoigu, but we shouldn’t remove responsibility from other generals either. There will be more jambs on them .. Why are the turnstiles not accepted for service, but the dressings are bandages? And pressure bandages? Why are the soldiers not equipped with optical sights?

                        The key problem of the army: unwillingness to think even for those who should do it according to the charter. The main thing in the report is to smear yourself
                      2. Goto
                        Goto 22 December 2022 15: 47
                        +12
                        And who is the head of the other generals? Why didn't you follow? And if they cheated, then why didn’t they remove them from their posts with subsequent landing?
                      3. bayard
                        bayard 22 December 2022 15: 57
                        +17
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        and we have one minister responsible for everything?

                        I don’t know about you, but in Russia the ministers DO NOT answer for anything.
                        ESPECIALLY Shoyga.
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        Was Shoigu personally supposed to track?

                        Yes yes , it is he. yes
                        And he is obliged to deal with personnel issues of the highest command staff. yes
                        It is he who is responsible for the activity, inactivity or malicious activity of his DIRECT subordinates. yes For all your deputies. yes For commanders of military branches and commanders of districts. yes For the commanders of the armies and directions (as well as the whole course) NWO. yes For the amazing activity of the General Staff in planning the Northern Military District, rearmament of the Army and Navy, their combat training, weapons, equipment and supplies. yes
                        Otherwise, why do we need these MO and General Staff if no one is responsible for anything there?
                        If the Deputy Minister of Defense stole 1,5 million sets of uniforms and equipment ... and? smile
                        He was promoted and became the chief controller of the RF Armed Forces. fellow wassat
                        SO WHO IS GUILTY OF OURS for all unparalleled "victories" and "accomplishments"? smile
                        Or do you dare on Himself - the Supreme Commander-in-Chief ?? belay
                        For it is He who is obliged to control his direct and immediate subordinate - Minister of Defense Shoigu. feel
                        Or is he out of control? what
                        Or is it controlled by someone else?
                        Quote: Barberry25
                        .Why are the turnstiles not adopted, and the dressings are bandages? And the pressure bandages? Why are the soldiers not equipped with optical sights? Why is the quality of personnel training very low?

                        Here came the inspector to the unit. soldier
                        And he sees that the unit is a mess, the soldiers are not trained, half of the "dead souls" in the state, billions of arrears in property warehouses, ... there are no turnstiles with hemostatics in first-aid kits ... and money was allocated ... and tenders were carried out .. .according to the documents, everything is in stock ... and in warehouses, roll a ball ...
                        Who will be to blame for us? smile
                        Ensign "Petrenko"? recourse
                        Major "Zavorotnyuk"? crying
                        No-o-no - the commander of the unit, Colonel Shoigavichus !! stop angry bully
                        And such a unit commander will go to the tribunal, lose his ranks and regalia, with confiscation beyond his strength ... well-served. Or (if he shares it correctly and there are intercessors) they will simply quietly dismiss him into the reserve.
                        But we have lol for some reason, the opposite is true - the most (?) stealing is appointed chief controller. yes good
                        Therefore, you are partly right - no one is responsible for anything in the Russian Federation.
                        For this they "jumped on the" Maidan "", for which they ruined the Union.
                        "So that we have everything and we have nothing for it !!!" - remember such a toast from the late Union? winked
                        It came true. yes
                        And it bears fruit. bully
                      4. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 22 December 2022 16: 41
                        -8
                        eyewash is just the legacy of the USSR, and yes .. it turns out that the generals have small children? and everyone should follow them? The main problem is just the desire to receive money and do nothing ... And until this problem is solved, shout that it’s specifically his fault, but the generals don’t, it won’t work .. everyone should be responsible for their actions .. and not excuse themselves in every report
                      5. bayard
                        bayard 22 December 2022 21: 17
                        +9
                        When Rust sat down on Vasilyevsky Spusk, the Minister of Defense, the Air Defense Commander-in-Chief and a number of other generals lost their posts. And the commander of the Tallinn RTV air defense brigade remained in place and at his post, because his brigade worked accurately, the target was found 35 km away. from the border and seamlessly escorted through its entire area of ​​​​responsibility.
                        Since February, so many "miracles" have already happened in our country ... such a mess has come to light ... and everything is "down the drain" to the guilty.
                        THE COMMANDER IS ALWAYS GUILTY!
                        Therefore, the autocracy in the Republic of Ingushetia collapsed - due to the lost rally of the REV and the extremely unsuccessful and practically meaningless WWI for Russia. Lost and unsuccessful wars The people do not forgive their power. And I would not like to repeat the experience already passed.
                      6. newtc7
                        newtc7 22 December 2022 18: 41
                        +6
                        Shoigu was supposed to put people who would do all this, set them a task and then ask them. And those who did not manage at least to be fired.
                        And he played biathlon, walked around Altai with GDP and lived in a golden castle with the feeling that everything was clear with him. After all, the head of the second army in the world wassat
                    2. newtc7
                      newtc7 22 December 2022 18: 38
                      +2
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      this has been clear for a long time and has been said many times, but we like to tell in the kitchen what good fellows everyone is, and not take responsibility at work. This is the problem. the question was "a little" squandered .. but for some reason our generals are eternal fellows.


                      They gave it to the governors because they are at least capable of something, they have some experience of organization, resources. And the generals can only shine with their belly during the exercises, but they steal qualitatively. No brains, no abilities, no desire, nothing there.
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 22 December 2022 18: 47
                        0
                        now .. and it's time to break this system, otherwise next time you will again have to pay with blood and already a big
                2. businessv
                  businessv 24 December 2022 10: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  What can I say if Putin is forced to remind the generals that the NVO is underway and that it is necessary to revise attitudes towards procurement ...
                  Have you ever wondered why such generals are needed? To remind them of their direct duties and their work? Yes, and in the Cabinet of such more than half!
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 24 December 2022 13: 53
                    -2
                    Find others - replace, but for now you need to make these work
            2. newtc7
              newtc7 22 December 2022 18: 36
              +2
              Quote: Barberry25
              promises are kept, it's just that people here think that they can say today, but in the morning it will be done


              Vladimir Vladimirovich, and how long have you been registered at VO?)))
              It was already said 10 years ago, and things are still there.
        2. Stas157
          Stas157 22 December 2022 17: 10
          +5
          Quote: Barberry25
          those. yesterday Have you watched Putin's speech? and did not add 2 + 2?

          No. I don't want to take the noodles off my ears!
    2. AdAstra
      AdAstra 22 December 2022 09: 35
      +8
      An artifact of a lost civilization of the Great Ones. hi
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 22 December 2022 17: 01
        +19
        as they said above ... the shaiga is not guilty of anything, neither in the stupid "biathlon" that burns resources, nor in the madams in the "stars" .. nor in the absence of normal "harnesses" and shoes, and first aid kits ... I have everything still a shock, "collection points" are everywhere, grandmothers are dragging socks, "doshiki", a familiar fisherman carried a sleeping bag (the old me, they need it) on TV - give the children a couple - three lyams for one! an injection ! parallel world ... sur. where was the shaiga and his boss when they started this? in parallel? weren't ready? 21st century! ... no words ... the war will not write off. people remember.
        1. soloist2424
          soloist2424 22 December 2022 20: 28
          -3
          I'll tell you a secret, not a single country, not a single country had such that during the war there was enough of everything and for everyone.
          1. newtc7
            newtc7 22 December 2022 22: 49
            0
            Quote from solist2424
            I'll tell you a secret, not a single country, not a single country had such that during the war there was enough of everything and for everyone.


            And how often did it happen to shout about 70% of modern weapons and all sorts of unparalleled ones there, but in fact no socks, no sleeping bag, night vision devices, no field kitchen? I'm not talking about unparalleled
            1. soloist2424
              soloist2424 23 December 2022 00: 18
              -1
              Is this the situation in all parts? Doubtful.
              1. newtc7
                newtc7 23 December 2022 21: 47
                -1
                Quote from solist2424
                Is this the situation in all parts? Doubtful.


                Only all sorts of specialists we had equipment ... and even then we are still far behind the West. In other parts, as there was armament in the conditional year 82, it remains to this day. Now something has begun to change, largely thanks to volunteers, but still very slowly and unhurriedly, like our entire bureaucracy.
                Putin is an adherent of the “rhythmic progressive movement”, which eventually results in years of doing nothing in such a bureaucratic machine.
                1. soloist2424
                  soloist2424 24 December 2022 19: 06
                  0
                  I don’t like assessments without facts, when there are replicas: everyone has nothing. That doesn't happen.
                  1. newtc7
                    newtc7 25 December 2022 14: 51
                    -1
                    Quote from solist2424
                    I don’t like assessments without facts, when there are replicas: everyone has nothing. That doesn't happen.


                    Well, listen, read the testimonies of the fighters from the front. Or ask your friends who is there if there are any.
                    Believe it or not, love it, don't love it, I don't care at all, but the fact that the problem is very big is clear to the last woodpecker.
                    1. soloist2424
                      soloist2424 25 December 2022 17: 53
                      0
                      By the way, I'm asking. About the fact that they don’t have sleeping bags, socks and field kitchens, they definitely have a star. Therefore, I tactfully hint, Mr. TsIPSO provocateur, but I feel in vain.
  2. tralmaster
    tralmaster 22 December 2022 05: 39
    +26
    As soon as you read up to half, you can stop reading further, the garbage heap flows from the author in a thin stream. And so in all articles. Specialist of a wide profile, understands all types of weapons. In the Soviet Union, there was such a term, a multi-station universal.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 22 December 2022 05: 47
      +25
      Roman sometimes has good journalism "on the topic of the day", but his article about aviation is frankly depressing. It's not his topic... No.
      1. alekseykabanets
        alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 07: 23
        +5
        Quote: Bongo
        but his article on aviation is frankly depressing.

        And the state of affairs in the domestic aviation industry does not depress you?
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 22 December 2022 12: 41
          +6
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          And the state of affairs in the domestic aviation industry does not depress you?

          How does the state of affairs in the domestic aviation industry correlate with the level of competence of the authors of the VO?
          1. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 14: 34
            -3
            Quote: Bongo
            How does the state of affairs in the domestic aviation industry correlate with the level of competence of the authors of the VO?

            Correlates with the level of competence of the commentator. Caps are not thrown up in the article, didn’t you like it?
            1. anykin
              anykin 22 December 2022 23: 27
              +1
              Author's protector? Well done, bite everyone.
            2. Toucan
              Toucan 23 December 2022 04: 06
              +2
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Correlates with the level of competence of the commentator. Caps are not thrown up in the article, didn’t you like it?

              Before writing such a thing, you would go to Bongo in profile. He was not seen in "throwing bonnets".
            3. Bongo
              Bongo 23 December 2022 06: 03
              +2
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Correlates with the level of competence of the commentator. Caps are not thrown up in the article, didn’t you like it?

              Nu, nu..do you have such a photo in your personal collection?
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 23 December 2022 09: 22
                +1
                Quote: Bongo
                Nu, nu..do you have such a photo in your personal collection?

                There is no collection as a class.))) He served in the OBS RTO, a VISP technician (75N) and an RSP technician (10 and 6). But in fact, I looked at your profile, but indeed I am wrong in many ways! You don’t throw a “bonnet” and are competent in this area, in my opinion, of course. Regarding the SU-27 and its upgrades, the SU-57 and the state of affairs in the domestic aviation industry, this is much more depressing than the level of competence of the author of the article. I am sincerely convinced that in the presence of the SU-57, and the structure for it, the air defense of Ukraine would have been destroyed long ago as a class, with all the ensuing consequences. I believe (correct if I'm wrong) that the backlog of the Russian Aerospace Forces from potential adversaries has reached critical values.
                1. Bongo
                  Bongo 23 December 2022 13: 00
                  +5
                  The ability to admit your own wrong is evidence in your favor.
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  I believe (correct if I'm wrong) that the gap between the Russian Aerospace Forces and potential adversaries has reached critical values.

                  In this matter, you are largely right! yes
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  I am sincerely convinced that in the presence of the SU-57, and the structure for it, the air defense of Ukraine would have been destroyed long ago as a class, with all the ensuing consequences.

                  I can't agree with you here for many reasons. By and large, the presence of even a few dozen Su-57s did not change anything. For example, take an interest in the epic with the R-77 missile defense system, where it was originally produced, and when combatant Su-35S were armed with this missile. hi
              2. Hexenmeister
                Hexenmeister 24 December 2022 17: 04
                0
                What is so unusual about this picture? If it was a photo of the Su-27 at the same place 40 years ago, I would really appreciate it. smile
      2. avg
        avg 22 December 2022 17: 59
        +1
        His theme is to throw shit into a mess in any matter, and then the guys pull themselves up, guys who are knowledgeable and uncompromising. Line up and appoint ministers and generals, and we will be happy. It is a pity that we do not see the personal data of applicants.
      3. Alien From
        Alien From 22 December 2022 21: 20
        +5
        Bongo! Indeed, Roman often produces articles on the topic of the day, but not everyone likes it. So after all, that’s what VO is for, to express your opinions hi
        1. Reklastik
          Reklastik 22 December 2022 22: 10
          -1
          So after all, that’s what VO is for, to express your opinions
          - but not to everyone, but someone's opinions can be completely deleted
          1. Alien From
            Alien From 22 December 2022 22: 13
            +2
            No one has canceled disrespect and disgust anywhere else ......
            1. Reklastik
              Reklastik 22 December 2022 22: 27
              +3
              Yes, and is it possible to respect amateurism, and even intolerant of criticism addressed to you on this matter ...
    2. lazy
      lazy 22 December 2022 15: 30
      +4
      since the author writes about everything, I wanted to know, so to speak, his life path, where he studied where he worked. but since I’m a lazy person, I followed the first link, if I’m not mistaken, 100 biographies, well, there are also lazy people who seem to just tear up his VK profile (by the way, closed), so no place of study or place of work, but "liberal views", if I’m not mistaken, the life goals are “wealth and power”, so don’t be surprised that a liberal smells like manure when describing Russian technology, and an American one “breathed in the goiter”, we treat with understanding, such a peculiarity of thinking
  3. FRoman1984
    FRoman1984 22 December 2022 05: 55
    +9
    The author, you messed up a lot in the performance characteristics / performance characteristics, you can not read from the middle - this is an essay, not an analysis. Lots of invention.
    IMHO, they will rely on the Su-57 of the "first stage" in the near future, and not on the deep modernization of the Su-35S.
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 22 December 2022 10: 27
      +5
      Including the same heresy about the fuel in the keels, they say he was the first. Author. The MiG-31 was the first to receive fuel tanks in keels. There is generally a tank wherever there was free space. This was done so that the aircraft could hang in the air as long as possible.
      The information from the author about the afterburner mode of supersonic flight speed also hurts the eye. The 27-35 family, in my opinion, cannot do this.
      1. mark1
        mark1 22 December 2022 17: 38
        0
        Quote: PROXOR
        the eye is hurt by information from the author about the afterburner mode of supersonic flight speed. The 27-35 family, in my opinion, cannot do this.

        M1,1 for the Su-35, but with an external suspension, without it ... then we don’t know.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 22 December 2022 05: 57
    +10
    Therefore, the once again modernized Su-27, that is, the Su-35, produced in sufficient quantities, capable of replacing the Su-27P and Su-27SM, is exactly what our Aerospace Forces need.
    And the Su-35, released in sufficient quantities? Or have they not reached enough yet?
  5. Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 22 December 2022 05: 59
    +8
    Just yesterday, the guarantor said that the financing of the army would not be limited https://m.vz.ru/news/2022/12/21/1192021.html, maybe they would do what Roman writes about. Although where to get the power and, most importantly, qualified specialists to increase the pace of construction of new equipment? Well, all this would not have resulted in another drink of dough.
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 22 December 2022 10: 44
      +1
      “Take capacities and, most importantly, qualified specialists” - there are more than enough capacities, but there really is a problem with workers.
    2. Barberry25
      Barberry25 22 December 2022 11: 38
      -1
      Take, sign a contract indicating an option, subject to early delivery and a separate government decree on additional financing of the aviation industry, and you will be happy
  6. User_neydobniu
    User_neydobniu 22 December 2022 06: 10
    +14
    And after all, a person who does not understand electronics can even believe the author .... And then it turns out that, to put it mildly, the conclusions are embellished
  7. Thrifty
    Thrifty 22 December 2022 06: 10
    +9
    Roman, what place are Chinese aircraft that do not have their own engine with acceptable characteristics, the main ones of which resource and reliability suddenly became a pure 5th generation in aviation? Only from the statements of the Chinese themselves? Then we proudly shock the planet that the Su57 is the world's first generation 6 Syrian fighter +, or even 7-!!! The main thing is to make such a statement, and then come what may ???
    1. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
      Vyacheslav Ermolaev 22 December 2022 11: 18
      +4
      You will laugh, but the Su-57 really has signs of the 6th generation:
      "Smart skin" - placement of antenna arrays on the surface of the aircraft, "efficiency in all flight modes" (after installing the engines of the second stage), "highly integrated network capabilities" (the ability to direct other aircraft at targets, target distribution, control of drones), piloting a fighter is optional (it seems to be installed regularly, at least there was information about flights without the participation of a pilot), a "directed energy weapon" (Military Watts assured that an electric maonite gun was tested on the Su-57, but something is doubtful)
    2. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 22 December 2022 21: 13
      +2
      China, judging by the last two exhibitions, has already reached the level of the Russian Federation in terms of engines. As you know, there are 2 engine lines: WS-10 and WS-15. WS-11C roughly corresponds to "item 117" and WS-15 to "item 30". WS-10 is already produced by the hundreds in various modifications. WS-15 - like our analogue, in development.
      1. FRoman1984
        FRoman1984 23 December 2022 07: 54
        0
        Quote: d4rkmesa
        China, judging by the last two exhibitions, has already reached the level of the Russian Federation in terms of engines. As you know, there are 2 engine lines: WS-10 and WS-15. WS-11C roughly corresponds to "item 117" and WS-15 to "item 30". WS-10 is already produced by the hundreds in various modifications. WS-15 - like our analogue, in development.

        resource and reliability. As well as fuel consumption in the case of ws-15. They come out on power, but in everything else they don’t. Therefore, they still buy the 31st.
    3. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 09: 16
      +1
      engine with acceptable characteristics, the main of which are resource and reliability
      And since when did the generation of an aircraft begin to be determined by the engine resource? In your opinion, An-2 is the 5th generation? Let the Chinese change their engines even after each flight, these are their problems. The main thing is that the aircraft demonstrates the required characteristics. And in the near future they will increase reliability, and then what do you say? Nibos "still not the fifth, their pickers have insufficient height, they do not reach everywhere without a stepladder."
  8. Pavel Tukabaev
    Pavel Tukabaev 22 December 2022 06: 12
    0
    I can imagine what can come from the modernization of the MIG 21 with the help of modern technologies!
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 22 December 2022 10: 31
      +1
      Nothing outstanding. At a minimum, the entire airframe must be recycled. What happens from the modernization of the 21st, you can look at the Chinese J-8 and its further interpretations.
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 22 December 2022 10: 46
        +5
        “At least the whole glider needs to be recycled.” - and it will be another plane.
      2. Toucan
        Toucan 22 December 2022 11: 28
        +5
        Quote: PROXOR
        Nothing outstanding. At a minimum, the entire airframe must be recycled. What happens from the modernization of the 21st, you can look at the Chinese J-8 and its further interpretations.

        Excuse me, but what does the twin-engine J-8, the latest modifications of which very much resemble the Soviet Su-15, have to do with the MiG-21? what
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 22 December 2022 12: 50
          +3
          Yes, it has nothing to do with it. The Chinese MiG-21 had the designation J-7. Its deeply revised version is in service with Pakistan under the name JF-17 or FC-1.
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 22 December 2022 14: 09
            -2
            We are talking about J-8: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-8
        2. PROXOR
          PROXOR 22 December 2022 14: 07
          -2
          Nevertheless, J8 was created on the basis of the 21st. More precisely, there is a symbiosis of the 21st and 19th with the original bow.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 22 December 2022 14: 51
            +3
            It's the first time I've heard it, but maybe I won't argue anyway. Although, as for me, from the twenty-first there is nothing at all except the silhouette on the first models.
          2. Bongo
            Bongo 23 December 2022 05: 59
            +2
            Quote: PROXOR
            Nevertheless, J8 was created on the basis of the 21st. More precisely, there is a symbiosis of the 21st and 19th with the original bow.

            You are mistaken, there is no more in common between the J-8 and J-7 than between the MiG-21 and the Su-15.
            1. PROXOR
              PROXOR 23 December 2022 10: 07
              -3
              I'm not mistaken. I advise you to study literature. It's just Chinese know-how. They took the fuselage of the MiG-21 and began to shove the unpushed. The nose was replaced with a large radar station, the single-engine layout was changed to a twin-engine one, following the example of the MiG-19. The Chinese are still masters in this regard. Think of a TV with an antenna stuffed into a smartphone.
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 23 December 2022 12: 53
                +1
                Quote: PROXOR
                I'm not mistaken. I advise you to study literature. It's just Chinese know-how. They took the fuselage of the MiG-21 and began to shove the unpushed. The nose was replaced with a large radar station, the single-engine layout was changed to a twin-engine one, following the example of the MiG-19.

                It seems like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... No.
                Of course, I don’t pretend to be a great expert, but I also studied Chinese military aviation at one time not from Wikipedia. Moreover, due to the extremely low reliability, I consider it extremely bad form to give links to this source. As for Chinese delta wing fighters, here is a photo from one of my publications on this topic.

                Satellite image of Google earth: J-7 and J-8II fighters at the airfield in the vicinity of the city of Qiqihar
                It is very clearly seen that the J-8 interceptors are almost twice as large as the J-7, and it is absolutely impossible to "shove" two very large turbofan engines into the fuselage of a light MiG-21. No.
    2. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 22 December 2022 10: 45
      0
      The same MiG-21 is only cheaper. laughing
  9. Pavel57
    Pavel57 22 December 2022 06: 31
    -3
    Radar power, visibility, super maneuverability. How will this affect the duel situation with the F-35, while close combat is rather an exception, the main one at medium distances.
    1. HaByxoDaBHocep
      HaByxoDaBHocep 22 December 2022 07: 20
      +4
      Such a misconception already led to the fact that in the 60s there were no guns on the MiG-21, and when the pilot fired missiles and they didn’t hit, and the situation slid into a “dog dump”, the plane remained helpless
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 22 December 2022 10: 48
        +2
        We must do justice, not only we refused small arms on fighters.
        1. WetCat
          WetCat 22 December 2022 11: 11
          +3
          The first "Phantoms" refused?
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 22 December 2022 16: 14
            +1
            I don’t remember which fighter was the first without small arms, but there were more than two of them.
    2. Dali
      Dali 22 December 2022 08: 13
      +4
      Quote: Pavel57
      Radar power, visibility, super maneuverability. How will this affect the duel situation with the F-35, while close combat is rather an exception, the main one at medium distances.

      And here is an example for you when maneuverability, speed and good radar give an undeniable advantage:
      Former Indian Air Force pilot Samir Joshi spoke about the military escalation between his country and Pakistan. He also mentioned how Russian-made Su-30MKIs thwarted an attack by Pakistani F-16s.

      In 2019, in a dogfight that took place on the border of India and Pakistan, the Indian Air Force attempted to attack the ground base of terrorists who claimed responsibility for killing about 45 people, whose camp was in the state of Kashmir, controlled by the Pakistani authorities. In response, the military sent interceptors to eliminate the air threat.

      A former pilot who participated in the battle noted that he and his colleague, flying the Su-30MKI, managed to evade 8 F-16 aircraft, which fired about 12 American-made AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles, but did not hit. Joshi also stressed that the Pakistan Air Force planes were well protected from anti-aircraft missiles, but the Su-30MKI attack was able to take them by surprise.

      In that battle, Indian pilots won. Then each side lost an aircraft. India lost the MiG-21 fighter, and Pakistan lost the F-16."
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 22 December 2022 10: 22
        +2
        The description of the battle between the F-16 and the Indian Su-30 is written emotionally, but illiterately. And super-maneuverability has nothing to do with it; the advantage of the Su-30 in radar and weapons is important there. Again, R-77, a medium-range missile.
      2. solar
        solar 22 December 2022 10: 32
        +5
        the Su-27 did not have the main thing for this: specialized means for detecting and recognizing ground targets

        The Americans solved the problem simply - they made a hanging container (universal! For different types of aircraft) to ensure work on the ground. Why the Su-27 did not follow this path is unclear.
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 22 December 2022 12: 27
          +5
          The Americans solved the problem simply - they made a hanging container (universal! For different types of aircraft) to ensure work on the ground. Why the Su-27 did not follow this path is unclear.

          The container itself is of no use if you have nothing to display the image from this container in the cockpit. Here are the dashboards of the Su-27 and F-15 from the Desert Storm era.

          1. solar
            solar 22 December 2022 12: 59
            +3
            Upgrading the dashboard to use the container is still much easier than creating a new aircraft.
            The F-15 also did not always have such a panel.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 22 December 2022 14: 31
              +3
              The F-15 also did not always have such a panel.

              Well, that's why I brought cars of the same time period. It is clear that in the 70s the F-15 could not have an LCD.
              1. solar
                solar 22 December 2022 15: 01
                +3
                Changing the panel is just one of the consequences of the appearance of target containers. And it didn't take long for him to become like that. You have an F-15E, but there were also upgrades of the original F-15A / V
              2. Evgeny_4
                Evgeny_4 26 December 2022 19: 20
                0
                So in your photo where F 15, not LCD but CRT screens (cathode ray tubes).
          2. merkava-2bet
            merkava-2bet 22 December 2022 23: 41
            +1
            You are not comparing two different cars correctly, in the top photo is a clean air superiority fighter, and in the bottom photo is a specialized shock modification double room a combat vehicle based on the F-15 fighter, and it has no equal in the world, well, only the F-35 and B-21 can be compared. When creating the F-15E, and the Americans themselves consider it a separate machine from the fighter, the new class, so to speak, is the rate was made on the latest REO and weapons, oh, they suffered with it, especially with REO, but they created a shock machine that really has no analogues in the world.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 23 December 2022 10: 27
              +1
              Andrey, thank you for reminding me of something that is not a discovery for me.
              You can match my answer (with pictures) with the message to which it appeared
              The Americans solved the problem simply - they made a hanging container (universal! for different types of aircraft) to ensure work on the ground.

              and you will see that there are no "wrong comparisons". But just a statement that the machine must be converted to the possibility of its (aiming container) use.
              1. merkava-2bet
                merkava-2bet 23 December 2022 10: 33
                0
                Sorry, monsieur, I wrote not from gloating or arrogance, but as a reference to the photo. Peace and understanding.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 23 December 2022 10: 44
                  +1
                  Peace and understanding.

                  Every morning I ask God for kindness, mutual understanding and indifference between people. Therefore, I support you in every possible way.
      3. solar
        solar 22 December 2022 10: 35
        +5
        Then each side lost an aircraft. India lost the MiG-21 fighter, and Pakistan lost the F-16

        Everyone saw only the barbel from the MiG-21, there are no questions that they shot down, but with the downed F-16 - big questions - was there a boy?
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 December 2022 11: 27
      +4
      Eternal competition between projectile and armor. First - euphoria about the new capabilities of radars and missiles, which, it would seem, make it possible to hit targets that the pilot does not visually observe. And then a slow sobering up, when at first it turned out that the detection range and the probability of hitting in a real battle were several times lower than tests and exercises, and then the strengthening of electronic warfare in general led to the fact that battles at an average distance of aircraft of the same generation turned out to be impossible.

      You can take as an example the previous generation of RVV SD - missiles with a semi-active radar seeker. The first call was already mentioned above Vietnam. And then it only got worse - already by the 80s, despite constant modernization, the combat work of these RVVs turned out to be practically impossible (provided, as I said, that aircraft of the same generation meet). At the exercises of the 80s in the United States, all attempts to conduct air combat at medium distances using the Sparrow were reduced to the cycle "target detection - capture - conditional launch - detection of radar radiation by the enemy - electronic warfare - escort disruption." And this cycle was repeated until reaching the distance of using "Sidewinders".

      Now the generation of RVV SD has been replaced by missiles with ARL seeker. But they also have their own Khrushchev with a screw. And everything will be repeated as of old - the range of destruction of the RVV SD with a probability not lower than the required one will constantly fall from the average down to the near one. smile
    4. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 09: 32
      0
      Radar power, visibility, super maneuverability. How will this affect the duel situation with the F-35, while close combat is rather an exception, the main one at medium distances.
      If the situation is a duel. Then there are 2 options. Both turn on the radars to the fullest, and glow like a Christmas tree, then whoever has a long-range weapon is covered in chocolate. Another option is that both radars do not use at all, relying only on optical-visual means. But this is for any melee. But you, purely in "American", meant another "duel" when on one side there is a lone Su-35, and the F-35 also has avaks and ground stations. But in this case, the Su-35 still wins because the Awaxes were shot down by the MiG-31, and the ground stations were destroyed by tactical nuclear weapons. Or so "American" the same is not fair. In American terms, in general, everything is not fair where they don’t win, but where they win - everything is honest, and it doesn’t matter how.
  10. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
    Vyacheslav Ermolaev 22 December 2022 07: 40
    +1
    "Why didn't we see this aircraft in service with the Aerospace Forces" - in what year was the article written? At least three 57s are in service. VKS. According to some sources there are five. And in total, the VKS ordered 76 cars.
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 22 December 2022 09: 38
      +4
      Whole three!!! Already... hi "" ""
    2. alekseykabanets
      alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 09: 49
      +4
      Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
      At least three 57s are in service. VKS. According to some sources there are five.

      Wow!))) And what to do with such a huge amount? Is the engine of the second stage ready? But this huge number is already flying in conjunction with the "Hunter"?
      1. Vyacheslav Ermolaev
        Vyacheslav Ermolaev 22 December 2022 11: 27
        -3
        Do you need everything at once? By the way, in the special operations involved them. And the first order is 76 pieces more than the first order of the same Su-35s (48 pieces), which were delivered within 6 years. These 76 units are committed to be delivered by 2027.
        1. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 12: 00
          +3
          Quote: Vyacheslav Ermolaev
          Do you need everything at once?

          Yesterday is necessary, but the day before yesterday is better. How long has the F 35 been flying? And how many of them are in NATO troops?
      2. Barberry25
        Barberry25 22 December 2022 11: 40
        -4
        Su-57 is a very expensive and complex aircraft, it will take a long time to implement it, not to mention the fact that no one cancels other aircraft.
        1. alekseykabanets
          alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 11: 57
          +6
          Quote: Barberry25
          su-57 is a very expensive and complex aircraft, it will take a long period to implement it,

          Since 2001, the Russian Federation began its development, based on the development of the USSR. 20 years have passed, and he is still not in the series, and there is no engine for him. How much time is needed? Another 20 years for revision and 20 years for implementation?
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 22 December 2022 12: 18
            -3
            1) it is already in the series: a contract for bulk deliveries has been signed.
            2) the deployment of a new generation requires more resources and time, while it must be taken into account that the aircraft will not be needed today, but really tomorrow, and now we need the Su-30cm2 and Su-35S, the deliveries of which are being carried out when the production of the Su-57 is debugged then and deliveries will be increased, tearing the fifth point with 5th generation aircraft, this is the same as tearing the industry in favor of the t-14 when t-72b3m22 and t-90m are needed.
            1. alekseykabanets
              alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 14: 25
              +4
              Quote: Barberry25
              to tear the industry in favor of the t-14 when t-72b3m22 and t-90m are needed.

              A T - 34 is not needed?
              Quote: Barberry25
              he is already in the series: a contract for bulk deliveries has been signed.

              Where is the second stage engine? What is the fifth generation on this engine?
              Quote: Barberry25
              and now we need Su-30cm2 and Su-35S

              La - 5 La - 7 are not needed? The day before yesterday, Su-57s were needed! If there were these planes, Ukraine would not have air defense, from the very beginning of the "non-war". What about today?
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 22 December 2022 14: 55
                -1
                if you want to compare, then please: during the war, even in the first year, the T-34M variant was ready, which was superior to the T-34, but it was abandoned in favor of the production of a proven machine, the same story was with the T-43 and T -44 in fact .. Or is it the USSR and this other forte?
                1. alekseykabanets
                  alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 15: 15
                  +5
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  if you want to compare, then please: during the war, even in the first year, the T-34M variant was ready, which was superior to the T-34, but it was abandoned in favor of the production of a proven machine, the same story was with the T-43 and T -44 in fact .. Or is it the USSR and this other forte?

                  Listen, but the T-34 almost immediately increased the length of the gun, and then the caliber. When HF ceased to suit, they made IS, etc. They wouldn’t ruin the industry - they would do everything that is needed, and the SU-57 and A-100, and they would have their own electronics, and they would have their own civilian liners. It’s generally scary to look at the fleet, they lowered the country below the plinth. Just don't say that Yeltsin alone is to blame for this.)))
  11. Andy_nsk
    Andy_nsk 22 December 2022 07: 43
    +4
    Well, "invisibility" was not delivered, so it is, invisibility, and now it is very so-so. Even those who are really "stealth". If you really need it, they'll see it.

    If we really had modern aircraft of the 5th generation, and not the 4th with many advantages, the Ukrainian air defense would have been suppressed in the first month of the NMD, and the bridges across the Dnieper would have been calmly bombed. And there would be someone to drive the Hymers. And if there were high-precision planning bombs, it would be possible to work on the front end. But for the military-industrial complex, it is easier and more comfortable to make another upgrade of the Su-27 than to develop something really new (the engineer himself, I understand this very well, managed to work in the Minaviaprom in Soviet times). I hope that now, having stuffed bumps, the leadership of the country, the Ministry of Defense and the military-industrial complex, will allocate funds for the development of the Su-57 and bring its performance characteristics to the standard, and then start mass production. In this war, he will no longer have time to say his word, but he will have enough enemies even after the end of the mess on the outskirts, and much more dangerous enemies, in which 5th generation aircraft have long been the basis of their combat power.
    1. alexey_444
      alexey_444 22 December 2022 07: 59
      +3
      The new is expensive, if there was money, and not 40 thousand workers in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, scientists and engineers will create, the design school has not yet been lost.
      1. cold wind
        cold wind 22 December 2022 09: 44
        +10
        In Russia, money is like a fool's shag. At least 300 billion dollars wasted, the country did not even wince. So the question is not about money.
      2. alekseykabanets
        alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 09: 52
        +5
        Quote: alexey_444
        New is expensive, if there was money, ...

        So they are. Just not where it’s needed, some people have yachts, in terms of tonnage, they will soon catch up with our entire fleet.)))
        1. alexey_444
          alexey_444 22 December 2022 13: 12
          -5
          Why are you all some kind of idealists. All the yachts think, 300 billion, do you live on the moon. Nowhere in the world do authorities live in poverty, yachts in any case will not go to the construction of ships and aircraft. Even under Stalin, when the state worked. the car is like a clock when a brother knocked on his brother and it was someone who lived better and ate red caviar, but the Stalinist regime had a lot of costs and now no one will go, we are not North Koreans, with our bazaar (nihilist and) it will not work. do not share the skin not your bear. It is especially funny to listen to people receiving money in envelopes that they feed someone and sail yachts with their money.
          1. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 22 December 2022 14: 43
            +2
            Quote: alexey_444
            Even under Stalin, when the state worked. the car is like a clock when the brother knocked on the brother

            Maybe such a "brother" as you knocked on your brother, but there is no need to tell fairy tales for others.
            Quote: alexey_444
            It is especially funny to listen to people receiving money in envelopes that they feed someone and sail yachts with their money.

            More details from this place? What is wrong with people who do not even have an official salary from the employer? Does the employer rip them off? Does the state protect? Do they not pay taxes?
            1. alexey_444
              alexey_444 22 December 2022 19: 44
              -1
              How old are you? Such naivety about squealing, in kindergarten, children understand people better than you. There were then people (not informers) and now there are but not in such numbers as you think. A conversation in the style of buy an elephant, it doesn’t matter who robs us, the question is when you receive it in an envelope, the pensioner will not receive a pension from your envelope, there are no Germans on you and they would have reported where they should, and punished, that’s why they pay there, but us legal nihilism, and then someone is to blame. they envy German roads, social security, but do not want to pay like the Germans.
        2. runway-1
          runway-1 22 December 2022 14: 22
          +1
          The principle works: if something has gone somewhere, then someone has gained...
    2. nickname7
      nickname7 22 December 2022 09: 42
      +7
      I hope that now, having stuffed cones, the leadership of the country, the Ministry of Defense and the military-industrial complex, will allocate funds for the development of the Su-57 and bring its performance characteristics to the standard,

      You do not understand the difference between what is an industrial country and raw materials. If funds in the form of a pile of dollars are dumped into the field, the plane will not grow there.
      First, reindustrialization is needed, and the planes will follow.
      1. Andy_nsk
        Andy_nsk 22 December 2022 11: 12
        +4
        You do not understand the difference between what is an industrial country and raw materials.

        I worked as an electronics engineer for forty years, how do I know about an industrial country.
    3. PROXOR
      PROXOR 22 December 2022 10: 42
      -5
      I would give you a bunch of minuses, but I can only one. Tell this to the mattresses that do not fly up to our air defense zones with a cannon shot. To gain dominance in the sky, you need to destroy the radar and air defense batteries of the enemy. But the enemy is also not. He does not shine with all his radars 24/7.
      During the 44-day war, Azerbaijanis opened the work of the Armyashki radar station with the help of An-2 on radio control. So here too. Do you propose risking expensive equipment and highly qualified pilots in order to massively crush the enemy’s air defense by losing from half to 75% of the combat fleet of fighters?
      Look at the experience of sworn enemies. The first waves are always cruise missiles. And in large quantities. Even knocking down half, the second one will reach the batteries of the air defense system and radar.
      And now we are bound hand and foot by NATO radio intelligence, who work outside the territory of the 404th. By the way: if you look at the territory of the deployment of permanent air defense systems Ukurkov, you can notice. They are almost overwhelmingly all along the right course of the Dnieper and beyond. On the left side, only mobile complexes (PZK, Buk and similar foreign "zoo"). The whole explanation is simple. An adversary of NATO, with his radio intelligence equipment, cannot control the airspace of the 404th to the full depth.
      1. Andy_nsk
        Andy_nsk 22 December 2022 11: 23
        +7
        I would give you a bunch of minuses, but I can only one

        I do not care
        Tell this to the mattresses that do not fly up to our air defense zones with a cannon shot.

        Mattresses don't want to get into a fight
        You propose to risk expensive equipment and highly qualified pilots in order to crush enemy air defenses with a mass

        I don't offer it
        The first waves are always cruise missiles.

        Right, what's stopping us?
        And now we are bound hand and foot by NATO radio intelligence, who work outside the territory of the 404th

        If you are talking about AWACS, then its range is only 400 km, even less for low-flying targets. They can only view the Kherson region, where the intensity of the fighting is currently low.
    4. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 22 December 2022 10: 55
      +3
      “Modern aircraft of the 5th generation would be in service” - everything would be exactly the same.
      “But for the military-industrial complex it is easier and more comfortable” - then you should know that the industry develops only what the military ordered, and does not engage in amateur activities.
      “who have 5th generation aircraft” - all these games in generations, this is for an ignorant layman, in fact, the combat power of the army is based on something else.
      1. Andy_nsk
        Andy_nsk 22 December 2022 11: 10
        +1
        You should know that the industry only develops what the military ordered,

        I know
      2. Andy_nsk
        Andy_nsk 22 December 2022 11: 39
        +5
        all these games in generations, this is for the ignorant layman

        I am familiar with the work of radar and air defense systems, I worked for many years at the Institute of Aviation, so I do not consider myself an ignorant layman. Our aviation technology is far behind the Western one (and not only in aircraft, but also in high-precision weapons (including missiles and glide bombs), which is why our pilots are forced to work at great risk only in the near frontal zone at low altitudes, but about the complete suppression of air defense the outskirts can speak only one ignorant lieutenant general.
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 22 December 2022 16: 10
          +1
          So after all, I'm talking about games in the generation of technology. Really knowledgeable people, but VO are very few, I completely agree with almost everything that you wrote. hi
      3. Reklastik
        Reklastik 22 December 2022 22: 21
        0
        then you should know that the industry develops only what the military ordered for it, and does not engage in amateur activities.
        more precisely, it develops what it can, and this is not always what the military wants and orders. Everything can be adjusted.
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 23 December 2022 00: 12
          0
          Ordering military equipment is a multi-stage process. The military initially formulate their "Wishlist", then, before placing an order, they study the possibility of actually fulfilling their desires, and only after this stage is an order for development work issued. This is ideal. Reality is, of course, full of exceptions. Of course, adjustments to both plans and deadlines are very common.
          “it develops what it can” - the industry, or rather specialized research institutes, develops only what they are ordered to, another question is that this does not always work out.
          And there were miracles in general, when the same product manufactured at different factories according to absolutely identical drawings and in compliance with identical technological processes had different performance characteristics.
    5. shikin
      shikin 22 December 2022 14: 27
      -1
      Let me disagree with you about the suppression of Ukrainian air defense in the first month of the NMD. Ukrainian air defense uses NATO aviation, space and unmanned systems that do not operate over the territory of Ukraine as early warning. It is not possible to suppress them.
      In addition, the advantages of 5th generation aircraft are stealth and network centricity. Stealth implies, again, the use of external sources for target designation. Turning on the active mode of the radar on the 5th generation aircraft - and nothing remains of stealth. That is, the effective use of 5th generation aircraft is possible with well-developed early warning systems and well-developed real-time information exchange systems. We are not very good at this yet. But if it were very, then 4 ++ aircraft in this system would be much more efficient.
      That is, in my opinion, all the advantages of 5th generation aircraft mean little in themselves.
      1. Andy_nsk
        Andy_nsk 22 December 2022 14: 45
        +1
        Ukrainian air defense uses NATO aviation, space and unmanned systems that do not operate over the territory of Ukraine as early warning.

        AWACS only works for 400 km, space complexes do not work for aviation, I didn’t understand at all what you meant about drones.

        Stealth and network-centricity are the main advantages of the 5th generation aircraft, they make it possible to find and attack targets with minimal risk to their own aircraft. The aircraft can work according to external target designation, the target can also be highlighted by one aircraft, and attacked by another. Just in such cases, AWACS and network-centricity are extremely useful. Have you heard anything about working with quasi-noise signals?
        And, frankly, there are so many people here who want to get me knowledge about aircraft, radar and other wisdom, it’s only a pity that my teachers do not even have elementary knowledge in these matters.
        1. shikin
          shikin 22 December 2022 15: 02
          0
          Well, explain how, without having a sufficient amount of AWACS and not having a normal network-centric system in the troops, to suppress the air defense of Ukraine with Su-57s alone?
          1. Andy_nsk
            Andy_nsk 22 December 2022 16: 11
            +1
            Well, explain how, without having a sufficient amount of AWACS and not having a normal network-centric system in the troops, to suppress the air defense of Ukraine with Su-57s alone?

            No way, the Su-57 should a priori be used in a network with AWACS aircraft. Network-centricity is a mandatory property of the 5th generation aircraft, as well as the ability to destroy a target in a passive mode. This is quite obvious to any reasonable person. Whether the generals from the Defense Ministry and the General Staff have intelligence is unknown to me - this is our main military secret!
    6. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 00
      -1
      and much more dangerous enemies, in which 5th generation aircraft have long been the basis of their combat power.
      Neighing. Ocherenoy amerikapodadushnik. Yes, the collapsing and non-combat-ready under-aircraft of the half-fifth generation is really the basis of their combat weakness. laughing
  12. ODERVIT
    ODERVIT 22 December 2022 07: 44
    +6
    I agree with the comments where they write that Roman should not take on the topic. For the uninitiated, everything seems to be smart. However, even the terminology there is far from aviation technology.
    From myself, I am sure that the flight and ground operation of the Su-57 in the IAP will be.
  13. Maxim G
    Maxim G 22 December 2022 07: 44
    +3
    8000 kg of combat load, with how much fuel Roman? what

    Why didn’t they say?
  14. Boris55
    Boris55 22 December 2022 07: 55
    -3
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    until something changes in the country. Which I personally highly doubt.

    I hope that neither the 16th, nor the 17th, nor the 18th year of the last century will be repeated in our country.
    Subject: "Perfection has no limits."
  15. alexey_444
    alexey_444 22 December 2022 07: 56
    +1
    This is normal, f-15, f-18, f-16 are still being modernized and produced. The question is that modern weapons are expensive, but not enough money
  16. Jackson
    Jackson 22 December 2022 08: 15
    +9
    Unprofessional style of presentation hurts the eye. And the text in the style of "everything is fine, beautiful marquise" why do we need a new Su-57 ..
    1. nickname7
      nickname7 22 December 2022 09: 27
      0
      why do we need a new Su-57

      Honestly admitting the bitter truth is better than lying.
  17. Eug
    Eug 22 December 2022 08: 39
    0
    It is quite a normal situation - the use of advanced developments to consistently improve the manufactured equipment. I just don’t understand how the Indians “danced” past all this splendor, especially in connection with the planned modernization of the Indian Su-30s.
  18. Denis812
    Denis812 22 December 2022 09: 30
    +2
    EW. After the Khibiny did not show themselves at all in the NWO, more precisely, they showed their complete helplessness, especially in automatic mode, it remains to rely on developments on the PAK FA theme. That is, the Himalayas.
    And it is possible in more detail? Who was shot down with the Khibiny used? Like no one.
    1. Goto
      Goto 22 December 2022 16: 00
      0
      They shot down and the whole hut remained. About two months ago.
      1. Denis812
        Denis812 22 December 2022 19: 36
        0
        Could you help with a link please.
    2. Osipov9391
      Osipov9391 22 December 2022 18: 00
      +2
      On April 3, near Kharkov, a Petrozavodsk Su-35S was overwhelmed by a Buk with these Khibiny. And they remained intact.
      Several times Su-34, the last one in autumn.
      1. Denis812
        Denis812 22 December 2022 19: 37
        0
        Could you help with a link please.
      2. Denis812
        Denis812 22 December 2022 19: 45
        0
        Could you help with a link please.
        1. Goto
          Goto 23 December 2022 12: 27
          0
          https://topcor.ru/28050-the-war-zone-v-ruki-ukraincev-popal-rossijskij-sekretnyj-kompleks-rjeb.html
          Well, there was also a post somewhere in the telegram, even from VO, it seems.
          1. Denis812
            Denis812 24 December 2022 10: 13
            0
            Thank you so much! Missed this post.
    3. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 22 December 2022 21: 16
      0
      fighterbomber wrote something about the incompatibility of electronic warfare with the "friend or foe" identification system. It is possible that several Su-34s came under fire from their air defenses for this reason.
      1. Rustic
        Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 15
        +1
        And what, the Khibiny also have a system of friend or foe. Like we reject enemy missiles, but let ours through? And it seemed to me that the electronic warfare should neutralize all the missiles directed at the aircraft, regardless of their affiliation.
        The fact that the Khibiny could suppress the identification signal, I believe in it. But as it turned out, they cannot protect against a rocket. It doesn't matter whose rocket it is. Dill has the same c300 and beeches and tori.
    4. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 05
      +1
      And it is possible in more detail? Who was shot down with the Khibiny used? Like no one.
      Why then do they not fly calmly over the whole of Ukraine? What do they suspect?
  19. shoroh
    shoroh 22 December 2022 09: 32
    +4
    When I read that the Su-57 would not fly, I immediately understood the level of competence. Apparently, Roman was informed about this from the very top, and for the sake of appearance, they continue to build the hulls of the Su-57, but here it’s clearer, there will be no this aircraft. Funny tests on the knee, that's what VO has turned into.
  20. lopvlad
    lopvlad 22 December 2022 09: 41
    +5
    Therefore, once again the modernized Su-27, that is, the Su-35


    what kind of modernization of the SU-27 are we talking about? From the Su-27, the SU-35 has only a glider shape, and even then with changes, and everything else is completely new.
    At the moment, the shape of the airframe inherited from the SU-27 has completely exhausted itself and the SU-35S has become in fact the last aircraft developed in which this airframe was used, and even then because in the 90s there was no money for the development and delivery of new aircraft to the wing.
    The future belongs to the SU-57 for those very few decades.
    The level of analytics in the article is clear from its title "Su-35SM: what will happen tomorrow?" since no Su-35SM exists in nature and the latest modification is called the Su-35S.
    1. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 18
      0
      in nature, no Su-35SM exists and did not exist, and the latest modification is called the Su-35S.
      This is how they will screw it to the Su-35 PGO, this is how the Su-35SM will be laughing
  21. DmSol
    DmSol 22 December 2022 09: 54
    +2
    The author considers the aircraft as an independent unit, but at the moment this is not entirely true. Now, the ability to share data as part of a group is coming to the fore, which makes it possible to see further and make decisions faster. This is the main difference between the 5th generation and our technology. Well, the modern strategy of a preventive massive strike makes it possible later to catch the remnants of the enemy’s torn apart air forces, which will have to act blindly. Therefore, the supercharacteristics of a single machine fade into the background.
    1. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 25
      0
      Now, the ability to share data as part of a group is coming to the fore, which makes it possible to see further and make decisions faster.
      The group cannot see further than their longest sighted aircraft can see. Let there be at least a million aircraft in this group. Before bringing all the antennas of the group into a coordinated dispersed antenna field, as it has not yet been thought of. If at all it is technically possible at this level of development. All this network-centric hamster noodles have little to do with reality. If at least something of this works in real life, then it is very far from being as rosy as it is told in fairy tales for fantasy lovers.
  22. Pavel57
    Pavel57 22 December 2022 10: 16
    +1
    Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
    Such a misconception already led to the fact that in the 60s there were no guns on the MiG-21, and when the pilot fired missiles and they didn’t hit, and the situation slid into a “dog dump”, the plane remained helpless

    In NVO, were many planes shot down by cannons? The guns of the Su-27 and Su-30/35 are the same. Even close combat missiles are comparable - R-73. Basically, all our victories are due to the R-77. And these are average distances.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 December 2022 11: 35
      +1
      Quote: Pavel57
      In NVO, were many planes shot down by cannons?

      This is how an air battle with a full-fledged enemy is considered - aircraft of the same generation of comparable modifications operating in the radar field and under control from the ground. And not the situation of the 1982 model: at the very least, one side sees a picture above the enemy’s territory up to the MV (because it retained the A-50 and MiG-31) and has more or less modern aviation, and the other sees only average heights, and even and irregularly (because the OVTs radar is dangerous to work for a long time) and has practically no new machines.
  23. futurohunter
    futurohunter 22 December 2022 10: 49
    0
    Respect for another article about "drying"!
    In fact, the modernization potential of the Su-27 platform on the Su-35SM is far from exhausted. Together with the engines, the Su-35 avionics and new weapons should be transferred to the Su-45MM (Su-57M). All-aspect sensors and new active jamming systems should appear. Aircraft must become network-centric, and able to control groups of earlier aircraft, as well as swarms of drones. By the way, they will be able to carry the same drones. Perhaps the second cabin will return, because the load on the pilot is growing sharply. Even an interceptor variant based on the Su-34 airframe is possible
    1. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 37
      0
      Even an interceptor variant based on the Su-34 airframe is possible
      The interceptor based on the Su-34 is complete nonsense. Okay, I’ll still believe in a drone group control plane. And this is only because there is a lot of space in the Su-34, and at least you can put a drone operator on the toilet there.
  24. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 22 December 2022 11: 28
    0
    How many letters are in this text. And why with the SU-57 in flight if the serial production of cars is already underway ?. Aircraft are used in special operations.
  25. Pavel57
    Pavel57 22 December 2022 11: 43
    +1
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: Pavel57
    In NVO, were many planes shot down by cannons?

    This is how an air battle with a full-fledged enemy is considered - aircraft of the same generation of comparable modifications operating in the radar field and under control from the ground. And not the situation of the 1982 model: at the very least, one side sees a picture above the enemy’s territory up to the MV (because it retained the A-50 and MiG-31) and has more or less modern aviation, and the other sees only average heights, and even and irregularly (because the OVTs radar is dangerous to work for a long time) and has practically no new machines.

    Ukraine has an advantage in information support - continuous AWACS patrolling, which is not on our side.
    So, the advantage in one is offset by the disadvantages in the other. And if we assume that instead of the obsolete Su-27, the enemy would have modern fighters comparable in all respects, except for super-maneuverability, with the Su-35. Don't count on a "dog dump".

    It is a little strange for me that the R-27T did not show itself in the NWO on both sides.
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 22 December 2022 13: 43
      0
      Doesn't it bother you that AWACS fly 500 km + from the line of contact? Even if they have a direct connection with the Air Force and Air Defense of Ukraine, they are simply very far away and can have little effect. They cannot provide any informational advantage.
      1. Osipov9391
        Osipov9391 22 December 2022 18: 04
        0
        AWACS fly over Serpentine. And what can he do from there when his radar on a "fighter" type target operates at a range of up to 500 km?
        He can see the ENTIRE South of Ukraine, the entire Crimea, the adjacent waters of the Black Sea and possibly a piece of the Krasnodar Territory.
        Is that not enough for you?
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 23 December 2022 00: 08
          0
          Well, not everything is so simple, for example, the radio horizon from the maximum AWACS flight altitude is 450 km. Of course, he can see the south of Ukraine from the snake island, he can view the Kherson region and the western part of the Crimea. But here it is 650 km from the island to Donetsk, the main areas where hostilities are taking place are at a distance of 500 km + from the patrol areas of these vehicles.
    2. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 40
      0
      the enemy would have modern fighters comparable in all respects, except for super-maneuverability,
      And why is it immediately without super-maneuverability, and why not without stealth, which is already unnecessarily publicized, and has not yet been really demonstrated anywhere.
  26. m.cempbell
    m.cempbell 22 December 2022 11: 48
    0
    It is worth recalling that the Su-27 was conceived solely as an air defense fighter-interceptor
    as far as I know, the air defense fighter is the MiG-29, and the interceptor fighter is the MiG-31. On the subject of air defense of the Air Force, the Mikoyan Design Bureau worked. Sukhoi Design Bureau was working on countering the F-15 ...
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 22 December 2022 13: 38
      0
      In Soviet times, there were two different structures, the Air Force and Air Defense. The Air Force solved tasks in the interests of the army on the line of contact. Air defense protected administrative and military facilities from air attack in the depths of the country. The task of air defense is to prevent air strikes on its territory. An air defense fighter must intercept enemy strike assets as quickly as possible before they complete their task, so the main characteristic for an air defense fighter is high speed and range of targets. MiG-31 is an air defense fighter. Air Force fighters, first of all, must be able to conduct air combat with their own kind of machines, and therefore the requirements are different. MiG-29 is an Air Force fighter whose main task is to provide front air defense.
      1. Rustic
        Rustic 24 December 2022 10: 50
        +1
        MiG-31 is an air defense fighter
        I'll clarify - the interceptor. The tasks of air defense interceptors do not include engaging in maneuver battles and gaining superiority. The task of the interceptor is to reach the target area as quickly as possible, attack it and shoot it down. If, for some reason, this is not enough, then the second wave of full-fledged fighters comes after the interceptors, and a completely different calico begins.
    2. VIT101
      VIT101 22 December 2022 18: 13
      0
      Quote: m.cempbell
      as far as I know, the air defense fighter is the MiG-29

      The author is right, but you are off topic. In Soviet times, the MiG-29 went only to the Air Force regiments, and the Su-27 went to the Air Defense aviation regiments. Mig-31 also went there. Subsequently, air defense aviation merged with the Air Force and everything was mixed up.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 24 December 2022 16: 26
        0
        Su-27 went to the air defense and air force. There were two options. But Mig-31 is only in air defense.
  27. m.cempbell
    m.cempbell 22 December 2022 11: 51
    +1
    In my opinion, the MiG-29's modernization potential has not yet been exhausted. The MiG-35 would be great to replace it ... and complement the SU-35. Actually, as it was planned from 27 and 29.
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 22 December 2022 13: 19
      0
      The MiG-29 is almost gone from our service. In Armenia, there is a certain amount at our base, swifts and a squadron of blacksmiths at the admiral. In order to produce a light fighter, it is necessary to form new regiments and squadrons.
  28. Introvert
    Introvert 22 December 2022 12: 35
    0
    Despite the fact that the Su-27 and F-15 are the best gliders and aircraft of the 4th generation, it will not work to stretch the owl endlessly, but they can and should be maximized due to electronics (and this is now the main thing, and not frills in the air) approaching 5 generation, but with the advent of 6 and a qualitative difference, someone runs the risk of being left with a bare butt in front of an awl.
  29. Devil13
    Devil13 22 December 2022 13: 38
    +1
    1. There is a contract for 76 Su-57s. Stage 2 engine issue.
    2. Need su-30 or su-34 to work over the sea.
    3. And the Su-35 has the same problems as item 2, so I reduced it to one - we NEED NORMAL RADAR with AFAR, and not with PFAR or a slotted radar in general. It's a shame in 2022 not to have an AFAR in service with the vogbshchech, even the Zhuk was not dragged through
    1. Barberry25
      Barberry25 22 December 2022 13: 44
      -1
      what is the advantage of AFAR over PFAR?
      1. Devil13
        Devil13 22 December 2022 15: 37
        +2
        In wide beamforming possibilities and angles (no need to twist the canvas, it is rigidly fixed, the deviation is formed by the work of the PES) in the number of targets tracked, etc., including reliability if one PES burns out.
        Well, in the detection range of real and resolution when mapping the same.
        1. Introvert
          Introvert 22 December 2022 16: 18
          0
          Quote: Devil13
          wide possibilities of beamforming and angles (no need to twist the canvas, it is rigidly fixed, the deviation is formed by the work of the PES)

          It seems like yes, there is such a thing, but apparently you still want even larger angles, so the AFAR canvases are already being put on moving platforms.
        2. Barberry25
          Barberry25 22 December 2022 16: 32
          -3
          Well, the range depends on the power, and our radars are more than worthy in this and can detect targets at a distance of 400 km versus 300 for the enemy. In the corners, the PFAR also seems to be worthy .. yes, and in general, in other areas, as I understand it, the performance characteristics of the PFAR allow them to be used quite to himself on the battlefield without any shame.
      2. Introvert
        Introvert 22 December 2022 16: 32
        +2
        Quote: Barberry25
        what is the advantage of AFAR over PFAR?

        1. Resolution, for the 81st it seems to be 30 * 30cm, i.e. the pilot can distinguish between a tank, an infantry fighting vehicle, a car from a height of 18 km
        2. Noise immunity
        3. Versatility - because modules are independent, they can be loaded with different tasks at the same time. The bulk is occupied by the main function of target detection, the other part interferes in parallel in the electronic warfare mode, the third group provides high-speed communication, like a Wi-Fi access point (yes, this is also possible) up to 500+ megabits / sec
        4. fault tolerance - since there are a lot of emitters, if some of them fail, the radar will simply reduce its characteristics (this is if there is no redundancy), and in the case of a conventional radar with a grating or PFAR, where the emitter is one but powerful, the radar is completely stops working.
        5. The number of processed targets and the number of attacked targets. The same 22nd one can really work as AWACS (here, most likely, the power of the onboard computer also decides)
        6. The ability to assemble panels like Lego, of different shapes and capacities, and also due to the absence of the need, in most cases, for active suspension - these panels are flat and can be molded in a variety of places. (as is done now on the Su-57)
        Well, I think there are still a lot of things that we ordinary people do not know)
        1. Hexenmeister
          Hexenmeister 22 December 2022 17: 10
          +1
          1. Resolution, for the 81st it seems to be 30 * 30cm
          This is a PCA, it has nothing to do with air combat.
          2. Noise immunity
          Tales of the Vienna Forest.
          Versatility - because. modules are independent, they can be loaded with different tasks at the same time.
          On American fighters, the canvas is motionless, therefore the angles are a maximum of + -60 degrees, and even with losses, how do you put a hindrance to the side ??? And the connection is obtained only forward in this sector, are you transmitting data to the enemy?
          4. fault tolerance
          And what about ordinary transmitters, after each flight they change?
          5. The number of processed targets and the number of attacked targets.
          Depends only on computing power!
          1. Introvert
            Introvert 22 December 2022 17: 46
            -1
            Quote: Hexenmeister
            This is a PCA, it has nothing to do with air combat.

            It would be better to be silent... show me a CLEAN FIGHTER.
            Quote: Hexenmeister
            Tales of the Vienna Forest.

            Surely you can confirm your words?))
            Quote: Hexenmeister
            On American fighters, the canvas is motionless, therefore the angles are maximum + -60 degrees, and even with losses, how do you put the interference to the side ???

            Are you approaching the enemy sideways?))))
            Quote: Hexenmeister
            And the connection is obtained only forward in this sector, are you transmitting data to the enemy?

            Man, before you show off, make sure that there is something ok? The data can be easily broadcast by their own aircraft in front and flying in passive. The plane can trust. AFARs are not only on airplanes, etc.
            Quote: Hexenmeister
            Depends only on computing power!

            Well, at least they hit with these, keep the CEP hat.
        2. Comet
          Comet 22 December 2022 20: 41
          +1
          Quote: Introvert
          Quote: Barberry25
          what is the advantage of AFAR over PFAR?

          1. Resolution, for the 81st it seems to be 30 * 30cm, i.e. the pilot can distinguish between a tank, an infantry fighting vehicle, a car from a height of 18 km

          The type of radar antenna does not depend on
          Quote: Introvert
          2. Noise immunity

          Why is AFAR better?
          Quote: Introvert

          3. Versatility - because modules are independent, they can be loaded with different tasks at the same time. The bulk is occupied by the main function of target detection, the other part interferes in parallel in the electronic warfare mode, the third group provides high-speed communication, like a Wi-Fi access point (yes, this is also possible) up to 500+ megabits / sec

          Can. All you need is the redundancy of the PPM and the appropriate shape of the canvas. And no interference. In the presence of interference - all PPM only for solving the main problem.
          Quote: Introvert
          4. fault tolerance - since there are a lot of emitters, if some of them fail, the radar will simply reduce its characteristics (this is if there is no redundancy), and in the case of a conventional radar with a grating or PFAR, where the emitter is one but powerful, the radar is completely stops working.

          This is nonsense. A radar is not only a PPM and a transmitter / receiver. In practice, the reliability of the radar is important, which is characterized by the average time between failures and the average recovery time.
          Quote: Introvert
          5. The number of processed targets and the number of attacked targets.

          Does not depend on the type of lattice.
          Quote: Introvert
          6. The ability to assemble panels like Lego, of different shapes and capacities, and also due to the absence of the need, in most cases, for active suspension - these panels are flat and can be molded in a variety of places. (as is done now on the Su-57)

          It does not depend on the type of lattice.
          1. Introvert
            Introvert 22 December 2022 21: 53
            0
            Quote: Comet
            Can. All you need is the redundancy of the PPM and the appropriate shape of the canvas. And no interference. In the presence of interference - all PPM only for solving the main problem.

            Redundancy is not needed, the shape is normal, or rather the one that is needed to fit into the fairing.
            Quote: Comet
            This is nonsense. A radar is not only a PPM and a transmitter / receiver. In practice, the reliability of the radar is important, which is characterized by the average time between failures and the average recovery time.

            In practice, if for some reason the emitting module is damaged, the radar is all. If the canvas is damaged, then the part can function. All other time between failures are included in the performance characteristics during design.
            Quote: Comet
            It does not depend on the type of lattice.

            Well, let's attach the RSL on the cassegrain to the leading edge of the aircraft wing and to the sides. I want to see it.
    2. Devil13
      Devil13 22 December 2022 15: 38
      0
      Well, yes, suspensions and KAB
      F-15 takes 18!! GBU-100.
      Range from 40 km. How would .... And where are our cabs? And where is 18 on a conventional fighter?
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 22 December 2022 17: 16
        +2
        F-15 takes 18!! GBU-100.

        28, not 18
        GBU-39 not GBU-100
        Not a fighter, but a fighter-bomber.
      2. Goto
        Goto 23 December 2022 12: 38
        0
        Here are our
        https://topcor.ru/29571-upravljaemye-aviabomby-pokazannye-medvedevym-pozvoljat-rezko-izmenit-balans-sil-na-fronte.html
        While at the exhibition only visible.
  30. runway-1
    runway-1 22 December 2022 14: 26
    0
    With respect, of course, however:
    It is not in vain that the British were frankly frightened when the Su-27 "accidentally" sent a missile somewhere. RC-135 had to be washed inside after the flight
    ??
    1. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 11: 11
      0
      ??
      This refers to the incident over the Black Sea, two months ago. When the Su-27, being next to the RS-135, launched an explosive rocket. After that, the British, one by one, are already afraid to fly there.
      1. runway-1
        runway-1 24 December 2022 11: 23
        0
        I know, the question was why so exaggerate?!
        1. Rustic
          Rustic 24 December 2022 12: 00
          0
          I know, the question was why so exaggerate?!
          He is an artist, he sees it that way. laughing
  31. Klausp
    Klausp 22 December 2022 15: 47
    0
    The text is compiled ineptly - there are no links between sentences, endings are omitted, a lot of inaccuracies! Terrible author! A shame!
  32. eleronn
    eleronn 22 December 2022 16: 11
    0
    Su-27 takes not 9400, but 9600 kg of fuel.
  33. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 22 December 2022 16: 45
    +3
    Su-35SM: what will happen tomorrow? And tomorrow there will be Su-35SM2 ... the day after tomorrow, Su-35SM3 ... That, perhaps, is all for now! Because "God loves a trinity"! So they exist: SM-SM3, "drying" generations 4,4+, 4++ ... "Pentium" I, II, III .... wink
  34. EMMM
    EMMM 22 December 2022 17: 00
    0
    I like the selectivity of the author's memory. He never mentioned the existence of the Su-30 (multifunctional fighter) and Su-34 (fighter-bomber).
    1. agond
      agond 22 December 2022 18: 20
      0
      Tomorrow, and better today, move the front landing gear to the front, ideally under the cockpit, even if for this you have to lift it up (well, at least move the strut strut forward) this step will fully reveal the potential of the aircraft, it will be possible to hang a long full-size aircraft between the engines a cruise missile or a special long bomb weighing 5-7 tons, because in fact nothing particularly heavy on the central suspension simply does not fit.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 22 December 2022 23: 57
        0
        Quote: agond
        move the nose landing gear to the front ........... this step will reveal the full potential of the aircraft,
        And it will increase the accident rate by an order of magnitude, since dirt from under the front wheel will enter the air intakes of the engines, which will lead to damage and engine failures.
    2. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 22 December 2022 21: 22
      0
      It seems that he did not accidentally choose the 35th - it is the most modern of all the fighters in use in his.
    3. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 11: 22
      0
      I like the selectivity of the author's memory. He never mentioned the existence of the Su-30 (multifunctional fighter) and Su-34 (fighter-bomber).
      Nothing strange. If you followed the author's opuses on this topic, you would know. He simply considers them a regrading and an extra zoo. They say it is enough to make two-seat versions of the Su-35 and Su-57 and this will cover the entire range of tasks.
  35. squid
    squid 22 December 2022 17: 58
    -2
    Well, yes, better tits in the hands. su-35cm, then cm2, then cm3.. 4++++ - reliable and verified. by 2040, when even such powers as South Korea will have the 6th generation
  36. Fintiflushkin
    Fintiflushkin 22 December 2022 18: 59
    +2
    It's good to give advice from the couch, and even based on information from the media - clean, honest and truthful. Not so long ago, I was amused by an article about what weapons could still be used in the NMD but are not used: there was a discussion about the IL-22 - they say an old man, but it can be useful and the commentators were simply indignant why he was supposedly not in business. Guys, Il-22s hang from Valuyki to Taganrog (maybe further to the Crimea) and their noise makes my head hurt, except for some days.
    But it was poetry.
    Let me put in my two cents off the couch.
    I want to ask those who like to criticize, even if it’s on the case: did the Russian Army in the current company have grandiose failures with boilers and heavy losses?
    Well, in principle - no, I personally have a lack of strength and a feeling of technical backwardness in the electronic component base.
    Russia does not produce processors at all.
    we have some mechanics.
    But compare the Hymars with the Hurricane: Hurricanes lack the stuffing to become highly accurate.
    The same goes for intelligence from space, communications, target designation.
    Even the same "Javelein" - it probably has a microcomputer that remembers everything and builds the trajectory.
    It seems to me that this is our main problem, and it is on it that we need to focus strongly.
    There was news that in a couple of years (if the program works) 300 nm lithographs will appear, such lithographs were already outdated in the West 20 years ago - this is the right step, and the path must be taken.
    There will be its own electronics industry - there will be satellites, and drones, and "fire and forget."
    Without their computers anywhere.
    So with the Su-35 - the glider and engine are quite good (at least they write so), so give it an even better radar, even better brains, give it external target designation and high-speed communications.
    We need our own electronics, we need our own lithographs, we need our own components.
  37. MinskFox
    MinskFox 22 December 2022 20: 19
    0
    Where does the information about the Khibiny come from, who knows?
  38. storm
    storm 22 December 2022 23: 52
    0
    Therefore, the once again modernized Su-27, that is, the Su-35, produced in sufficient quantities, capable of replacing the Su-27P and Su-27SM, is exactly what our Aerospace Forces need.


    As always, the question is enough.
    According to experts, to cover the territory of the Russian Federation, the Aerospace Forces should have about a thousand multipurpose fighters, about 40 air regiments. Of course, it’s not worth expecting such a quantity of Su-35SMs and, in the best case, 100-120 units of new vehicles will be purchased, but something tells me that the process will end with the modernization of several Su-35S squadrons from combat aviation regiments.
  39. Lbvsushi
    Lbvsushi 23 December 2022 00: 25
    0
    Sad article .... Some kind of doom in it. Now we are starting another reform of the army, or 3 roofing felts 4 for the last 25 years ... and as a result we will get a lot of corruption and BTR 82, BMP, T90 at best and Kenwood radio communications, maybe even Chinese quadrics at a price of 3 in 1. (((There is somehow no hope that once again they won’t steal everything, they’ll blow up (((If only they made a bomb planning for 40-50 km. Otherwise, for 30 years we’ve not attached wings to the pipe.
  40. Deon59
    Deon59 23 December 2022 09: 41
    0
    The F 15 started out as a fighter and ended up as a fighter bomber.
    1. agond
      agond 23 December 2022 11: 06
      0
      Quote: Bad_gr
      And it will increase the accident rate by an order of magnitude, since dirt from under the front wheel will enter the air intakes of the engines, which will lead to damage and engine failures.

      Even the first MiG-29s had special air intakes above the wing that opened during takeoff (and the main ones closed), this was especially required during takeoff and landing on unpaved airfields. in the Su-27, curtain nets were lowered in the air duct during takeoff. If you wish, you can find a solution, for example, the front landing gear in the form of the letter L. this will move the rack forward, and the wheel will almost slide under the air intakes, which will prevent something from getting into them, though chassis design will be more complex and heavy.
  41. Goto
    Goto 23 December 2022 12: 32
    0
    About Khibiny 2017.
    https://topwar.ru/128491-kompleks-reb-hibiny.html
  42. savage3000
    savage3000 23 December 2022 14: 03
    0
    It is not in vain that the British were frankly frightened when the Su-27 "accidentally" sent a missile somewhere. RC-135 had to be washed inside after the flight.
    ___________________

    After that, you can close the article and not read it.

    Ps, the author would have repeated the duck about how the Su-24 Khibiny Kuku burned electronics, and the sailors then wiped themselves and were massively written off to the shore.

    Are there article moderators here?
    1. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 11: 43
      0
      After that, you can close the article and not read it.
      They may not have finished the plane, diapers and all that. But the fact that in the past they began to fly only with fighter cover is a fact. Although, of course, such passages are superfluous for the article, they have a place only in the comments.
      However, it seems that the author wrote this article ... In not quite working condition. Well, you never know, maybe a person has some kind of holiday, but an article needs to be published. request
  43. Alexandre
    Alexandre 23 December 2022 15: 16
    0
    A shame. MO is another source of profit. Everything is at the level of the USSR. Therefore, it has no analogues in the world. Fit generals with intelligent faces are watching from the TV screen.
  44. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 23 December 2022 20: 08
    0
    But won’t a smart author tell about the failure of the Khibiny?
  45. Alexander Golotov
    Alexander Golotov 24 December 2022 01: 20
    0
    Here's what I still can't understand. Why, with such a round of technology, is the emphasis on manned aircraft? Why not drones? After all, they are much cheaper, much. When it is destroyed, the pilot does not die, our compatriot in the first place, and this morally greatly facilitates the implementation of any even the most dangerous task. Below I will explain why. And yet, with the loss of a pilot, how much is the alternative damage? After all, you can’t take anyone from the street, the pilot was trained for many years with state money, and this is also damage and there is no one to replace him

    And about drones, you can arrange swarm attacks, come up with detachable parts so that there are a lot of decoys. After all, it has already been proven that it is much more effective to bring not as much explosive as possible to the destination, but the exact ammunition that will hit where it is needed.

    If I were in the place of the Moscow Region, I would introduce a line of UAVs for various purposes into the army

    1. Front - several modifications. Let's say with a maximum payload of up to 100-150 kg. And then play with the suspension, or hang 2 heavy charges to hit the fortifications, or 4 lighter ones to hit the tanks and say 8-10 very light ones to destroy light armored vehicles, dugouts, attacks on buildings, enemy mobile groups and other weak targets
    2. Heavy strike UAVs with a payload of up to 1 ton. Hang FABs on them, say 4x250 kg or 2x500 kg, and let them hammer targets in the tactical depth of the enemy, and these are railway and road bridges, junction stations, command posts, echelons with equipment and manpower, training centers, etc. Fly and throw yourself gifts to the shit

    There are 500-1000 such machines at least in our army, and in 2-3 weeks there will be nothing left of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And no air defense is enough to destroy such an armada. After the air defense is triggered, the calculation will be noticed and destroyed. Most importantly, UAVs will not be able to destroy air defense systems from MANPADS, and this is now the main threat to our front-line aviation
    1. Rustic
      Rustic 24 December 2022 11: 47
      0
      Why, with such a round of technology, is the emphasis on manned aircraft? Why not drones? After all, they are much cheaper, much
      And what, we already have control channels that are not available for suppression? Or have we already cheaply invented a full-fledged AI that is not inferior in terms of decision-making to pilots?
      1. Alexander Golotov
        Alexander Golotov 24 December 2022 23: 31
        0
        We also have Orions and evidence of their successful work behind enemy lines. For example, the strike on the Retroville shopping center seems to be in Kyiv, when Orion accompanied the spent hailstones for quite a long time. And by the way, I want to note that Orion did his work in the most closed region in the country in terms of air defense. Kyiv at that time was definitely the best closed by air defense systems. There are Eagles and a bunch of other even the cheapest drones that successfully patrol the frontline zone. We would at least start ironing it pointwise and it's in the bag.

        And what about AI? The operator as a means of control does not channel?

        In general, this is all for what, often when they show the shelling of the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, in front of their trenches the fields resemble a lunar landscape. Moreover, the craters are visible hundreds of meters from the enemy trenches. Apparently hailstones work on squares. But how many shells do you need to fire with simple artillery so that one flies into the enemy’s trench?

        For the same bayraktar, as practice has shown, a couple of shots are enough to burn those who are sitting in a trench and one charge for a dugout. And there is no fortification.
        1. Rustic
          Rustic 25 December 2022 00: 12
          0
          And I didn’t say that the UAV does not have its own niche. Observation, target designation, artillery correction, the same kamikaze. Yes, they do make sense. But how do you imagine an unmanned fighter or interceptor? These are already large enough and expensive aircraft that they could be lost so easily due to problems with the control channel. And it’s not a fact that the speed of this channel will be enough for them to perform their typical tasks. And for the autonomous performance of such tasks, computer technology is still too far from the required level. If in the near future drones will replace someone, then it will most likely be front-line bombers. He went to the target area, worked on the mark, went back. This is where the whole process can be pretty much automated, bringing it to the point that the operator practically does not have to interfere with the operation of the drone. But unmanned fighters are still very far away. And most likely, there will be no unmanned strategists at all, in principle.
          1. Alexander Golotov
            Alexander Golotov 25 December 2022 03: 23
            0
            Maybe I'm certainly not a great military strategist, but for me now there is a certain alteration of all the foundations of hostilities and some types of weapons do show their extreme inefficiency.

            As for UAVs, I believe that front-line bombers will already be enough for the effective conduct of hostilities. And it is with the help of the operator and precise aiming at the moment. Working on predetermined coordinates will bring us back to the same problem, working on a square, and here the efficiency is extremely low.

            Think about it, our army fires daily from 20 to 60 thousand shells! And this is with great destructive power. And now let's look at the summaries of our MO. On the day of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, on average, they lose from 200 to 500 people killed. Let there be 300 people against even 30 shells. It turns out that the effectiveness of our artillery fire is 1%. But after all, some of the dead fall on airborne strikes, some on infantry, and some on missile troops. So what is the effectiveness of our art then? That's what I'm talking about

            And now let's imagine that we have saturated our troops with the same analogues of the bayraktar, which puts its projectile exactly on the target for laser guidance, if memory serves. 1 shot = 1 target. How much easier and faster will it become to smoke out the APU from the trenches, dugouts and fortifications in general? What will happen to their equipment on LBS? What will happen to the rear columns on the way to the forward positions? How long will they last? If they are jewelry burned out?

            IMHO our problem is both in the outdated theory of work on areas. And what will be the use of the rest of aviation by and large? Why is she? How much does one KA-52 or SU-35 cost? What goals are our Aerospace Forces currently fulfilling by shooting at a mounted one? The same principle of artillery, only they still risk being shot down from MANPADS. And the drone, no matter how much it costs, shock or kamikaze, in any case, will pay for itself. Yes, they will also be shot down not without it, but for some reason everyone considers the dry cost of the downed vehicle itself or the price of its shells. But no one considers the opportunity cost. It was thanks to the accuracy of the bayraktars that the Azerbaijani army deftly clicked the equipment and personnel of the troops in Karabakh. We saw the same thing against us at the beginning of the NWO. By the way, classical aviation will also envy such accuracy.
            1. Rustic
              Rustic 25 December 2022 08: 23
              0
              As for UAVs, I believe that front-line bombers will already be enough for the effective conduct of hostilities. And it is with the help of the operator and precise aiming at the moment
              Do you really think that bomber aircraft are working on a visually observed enemy? I'm afraid that all your enthusiasm about bayraktars has no basis, in view of the complete lack of understanding of how it all happens in reality. Accordingly, arguing about the effectiveness / ineffectiveness of certain combat units does not make any sense either. Your idea of ​​​​aviation is built solely on the videos of destroying targets, while a huge pile of everything that is necessary for such a video to come out, you think that happens by itself.
              1. Alexander Golotov
                Alexander Golotov 30 December 2022 02: 09
                0
                Why, sir, you are mistaken. And in the root now I will explain why.

                Let's say classic aviation works very simply. According to target designation from the ground, that is, infantry, it flies to a given point, works out and flies back faster so as not to get from enemy air defense or from MANPADS. At the very least, we still don’t seem to give satellite target designations like NATO

                But the UAV can work differently since there is a mode of hovering over the point. In addition, the UAV is not visible to the enemy infantry, and therefore to its MANPADS. Therefore, it can safely work both on given exact squares from infantry and in free hunting mode in order to detect enemy positions. What classical aviation cannot afford. Apparently, you wanted to reproach me for this, that target designations are also necessary for UAVs

                And I didn’t have any enthusiasm for the work of the bayraktar because the bayraktars burned our equipment and people, unfortunately there is a lot of video evidence for this

                In general, I don’t see anything difficult for launching a UAV over, say, Artemovsk into a free hunting mode and, if a target is detected, immediately work on it. What is not real about this? After all, they are already doing this now, only unfortunately the fire is fired in the old fashioned way from artillery, with shooting, and while you hit the enemy is already changing its deployment. And then hide, don't hide, 100% will arrive
  46. Ura65
    Ura65 24 December 2022 10: 27
    0
    Chasing Americans (oh, sorry, US citizens) is like pissing against the wind.
  47. Velmi Shin
    Velmi Shin 24 December 2022 19: 16
    0
    I doubt, however, that electronic warfare is so hopeless. It's just that intelligence should work better in order to know the frequencies of the enemy systems. Or create tunable wide-frequency equipment. This requires details of the radio-electronic industry and computer technology.
  48. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 24 December 2022 22: 16
    0
    The launch of electronics for the 57th (and for everything) is massive, on the 57th itself, God forbid 15-17 / year. Accordingly, you need to use it for modernization on an already tested airframe. That's what they do. But I still don’t understand why the modernization of the 30s and 35s is not synchronous? 30s in 35s, and 35s in 57s we do. I am silent about the dinosaur in the form of 35, it remains in the 20th century. Unification is also not our way.
  49. Muzzle
    Muzzle 25 December 2022 09: 25
    -1
    The era of heavy fighters gaining air superiority in NATO countries has not begun. In Russia, this has not been taken into account. Let's take all the new NATO fighters and compare them in size with the SU-27 generation. Then, if we discard the misconception about the medium and heavy fighter and begin to operate with the concept of the main combat aircraft, we will see that NATO has taken care for a generation to come to gain air superiority due to the smaller size of their fighters in the era of even AFAR radars. When meeting in the air, with equal radar characteristics on the SU-27 and, for example, the F-16, the SU-27 will be noticed earlier and the missile will be fired first at the target by the F-16, Euroweiter, Rafal, and even the 2-engine F-18 in all of them put less visibility on the radars corny due to the reduction in their size compared to a potential enemy. Well, the most offensive thing is that again the chip, as well as about electronic warfare, as well as about the super-maneuverability of the SU-27 and MIG-29 generations, was beaten. And so they trumpeted on TV and showed cartoons. Rocket or plane - alas, the rocket wins. Therefore, the F-35 is as it is - an ugly duckling - but with a huge prospect. Well, our design bureaus are clumsy, like in tanks, both riveting and riveting, not taking into account that the roof-breakers have been in the world for 20 years, and in the future the entire generation of the SU-27 is morally obsolete due to trite super-maneuverable missiles.
  50. MakStVik
    MakStVik 27 December 2022 19: 05
    -1
    Normal world experience. The Americans are also in no hurry to abandon the F-15, they are modernizing it.