Military Review

"Rheinmetall" is going to Russia

48
A couple of weeks ago in the press there were reports of the purchase by the Russian Ministry of Defense of GTK Boxer wheeled vehicles of German-Dutch production. These armored cars are allegedly already being tested at Russian test sites. Of particular interest to the reports were the words of a certain anonymous media source, who spoke about the ongoing negotiations on the deployment of the Boxer licensed production at Russian enterprises. Over the past days, there was no official information on procurement, or at least on negotiations on their subject. Yes and news About GTK Boxer has given way to a more up-to-date informational “scene.”



In the last days of October, the German press issued an interview with Klaus Eberhardt, chairman of the board of the Rheinmetall AG concern. In the course of the conversation with the journalist, the head of the company spoke about the prospects of various types of equipment and about the export possibilities of one or another product of the concern. However, for Russia, other words by Eberhardt are much more interesting. As it turned out, Rheinmetall AG sees great contractual prospects not only in the Middle East region, but also in Russia. Such views of the largest German company producing weapons and military equipment look quite interesting, including in the context of rumors about Boxer armored cars. The fact is that Rheinmetall played an important role in the creation of these machines.

At the same time, it is necessary to recall the news that appeared last fall. Then the Russian Ministry of Defense and Rheinmetall AG announced the signing of a contract to equip the Ground Forces Combat Training Center. According to the terms of the contract, the German concern should supply and install a set of equipment at the Mulino landfill (Nizhny Novgorod region). Until 2014, a training center will appear at the base of the landfill with a total area of ​​about 500 square kilometers and the possibility of training up to 30 thousands of servicemen a year. There is evidence that all training complexes designed for testing shooting will be based on laser technology. The contract for the construction of the Combat Training Center is the first major contract of Rheinmetall, concluded with the Russian military. This fact was highlighted by representatives of the contracting company and the customer represented by the Ministry of Defense.

Apparently, the management of Rheinmetall AG saw the potential of cooperation with Russia and considered it very good. It is possible that the Germans were led to such cooperation by analyzing the latest steps taken by the Russian Ministry of Defense in the area of ​​purchasing foreign equipment. So, the Italian armored vehicles Centauro and Freccia are only being tested for the time being, and the Iveco LMV is already produced in Russia under license. It is likely that Rhinemetall hopes to offer the Russian Ministry of Defense any samples of its products and try to sell them, including in the form of a production license. In this case, the German concern can be helped by the fact that it is engaged in the production of a fairly wide range of products, from small-scale weapons and ammunition to armored vehicles and air defense systems.

During the discussions of Herr Eberhardt’s statements, last year’s scandal “surfaced” over the comparison of Russian and German costs tanks. Recall, then, in the statements of some of our generals, the German Leopard 2 main tank (manufactured by Rheinmetall AG) fell in price, up to the point that it became cheaper than domestic combat vehicles. Moreover, the statements of the military leaders were in direct conflict with the official data on the cost of the compared machines. “Cheap” German tanks were mentioned in the light of the greater benefit of buying such equipment abroad, rather than from their manufacturers. However, prices were sorted out soon. It is unlikely that the management of Rheinmetall then accepted the statements as a direct guide to action, and the Russian military does not yet show much interest in foreign heavy tracked vehicles - Armata's own project is currently underway in this area. Judging by the purchases of Italian wheeled armored vehicles, it will be more profitable for the Germans to offer the Russian military department a wheeled platform GTK Boxer. However, all information about such a proposal has so far been limited only to rumors.

"Rheinmetall" is going to Russia



It is noteworthy that Rhinemetal, most likely, is looking for new markets not only from the desire to get more profit. At present, the concern’s leadership is “fighting” with opponents of one of the major contracts. In early summer of this year, Saudi Arabia expressed a desire to order up to three hundred Leopard 2 tanks, a corresponding agreement for the supply of the first 270 machines was signed a little later, and then the Arab country’s desire grew to eight hundred units of tracked vehicles. But soon the contract was subjected to sharp criticism. At first, Saudi human rights defenders spoke out against tank supplies. According to them, combat vehicles can be used to suppress the rights and freedoms of citizens. We will not dwell on the effectiveness of such suppression and the expediency of, say, dispersing rallies with cannon weapons. Further, the transaction appeared opponents from the German highest circles. It turned out that German legislation does not allow the export of weapons to countries where there are problems with the observance of human rights, while Saudi Arabia, according to the “German classification,” refers specifically to them. In the future, around this contract there was a lot of controversy and at the moment the full fulfillment of all the conditions seems doubtful. If “Leopards” will go to Arabia, then, most likely, in quantities less than 800 pieces.

Thus, Rheinmetall lost or runs the risk of losing a very good contract with a very good price due to political differences. As a result, German merchants have to look for new markets even to maintain current economic indicators. If now the agreement on the supply of tanks turned into a scandal, then where is the guarantee that in the future it will be possible to sign and execute other contracts with Middle Eastern states without any problems? It remains to “make friendship” with countries that were not even previously considered as buyers, including with Russia.

And yet, do not forget that in the field of arms trade the main role belongs to the customer. It is he who determines the requirements for the necessary equipment, chooses from the proposals and, finally, pays for the order. In the context of this issue, this means that Rheinmetall may have very different plans for the supply of arms to Russia, but the last word still remains with our Ministry of Defense.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ng.ru/
http://welt.de/
http://inopressa.ru/
http://itar-tass.com/
http://rheinmetall.com/
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48 comments
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  1. Brummbar
    Brummbar 2 November 2012 08: 32
    +1
    The Germans always made excellent guns, maybe ours will learn something, the main thing is that everything does not end with a screwdriver assembly.
    1. aktanir
      aktanir 2 November 2012 12: 41
      -3
      These are Germans and their incomparable German quality !!! And their weapons were always not so weak. During World War II, it was not by chance that they were able to conquer a large number of countries - this could only happen due to a powerful and diverse weapon.
      So we definitely need to take their "Leopards II" and "Boxers". But only in certain proportions, without offending our factories for the production of armored vehicles. Let's say, somewhere around 500 Leopards 2 and 1500 Armata. What? Fine!
      This will allow not only to carefully study the most advanced Western technologies, but also to compare whose equipment is really better. The tankers themselves will then say and it will not be necessary to read thousands of articles where the so-called experts are trying to simulate a virtual battle, finding out whose tanks are better.
      1. crazyrom
        crazyrom 2 November 2012 21: 41
        0
        The main problem of the Germans is that they have expensive and high-tech weapons, but few units. Therefore, their tigers and panthers alone could delay the advance of the Anglo-Saxons with their small tanks. Russian weapons have always been simple and massive (T-34). At least one German tank defeated one of our tanks without much difficulty, but we had many more tanks, and here no techno-niche helped.

        And today, they have one of the most expensive tanks in the world, but they are few (precisely because of the price), you just can’t buy a lot of them.
        1. Gren9
          Gren9 3 November 2012 03: 42
          +2
          At least one German tank defeated one of our tanks without much difficulty, but we had many more tanks, and here no techno-niche helped.

          But nothing that fighting not specific units of technology, but military units?
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 3 November 2012 12: 11
          0
          Lord, teach history, finally, do not pour so actively stupid.
        3. kostello2004
          kostello2004 3 December 2012 14: 48
          0
          the wonders of analysis as I look
      2. Comrade1945
        Comrade1945 2 November 2012 21: 58
        +1
        So we definitely need to take their "Leopards II" and "Boxers". But only in certain proportions, without offending our factories for the production of armored vehicles. Let's say, somewhere around 500 Leopards 2 and 1500 Armata. What? Fine!

        No, thank you ...
      3. MstislavHrabr
        MstislavHrabr 3 November 2012 01: 38
        +2
        Pieces 30-40 and no more ...
        1. Comrade1945
          Comrade1945 3 November 2012 03: 03
          +1
          Yes, and that, only to hammer on them at the training ground wink
      4. Gren9
        Gren9 3 November 2012 03: 41
        +1
        this could only happen due to a powerful diverse weapon.

        They were able to conquer a large number of countries not because of technology, which was very outdated by the beginning of the war. And thanks to the latest concept of warfare, the so-called blitzkrieg. But as soon as the war entered the stage of exhaustion, they quickly merged.
        And why do we need their giant tanks? Let's order Ratte right away, but what about German?
  2. Lavrik
    Lavrik 2 November 2012 08: 36
    0
    To want is not to receive.
    1. bask
      bask 2 November 2012 13: 25
      +7
      Kiril Ryabov I also want to thank you for the article. You’re alone, indulge ,,, articles about armored vehicles. If you can illuminate the merging. So to speak, fate BMP BWP-80 vehicles. And to illuminate in detail the Tracked chassis of the N-200 radar for the Polish self-propelled guns ,, Crab ,, 21mm. The Polish BMP BWP-155 could become ,, Kurgan from Russia already in the year 200. That’s all the nodes were tested .... ..we are wasting time in vain. IT IS ALL THINKED UP TO US !!! Parameters BWP-12, weight 200-25 tons, load capacity 29 tons, crew 11 people, landing 3 people .. MTO in the bow, the entrance from the stern ,,, Super BMP and now)))))))
  3. Joker
    Joker 2 November 2012 08: 57
    +4
    Well, with the Germans you can cooperate very fruitfully, they have very good equipment and weapons. Instead, you can push them our helicopters and planes, they are by our heads better than the miracle that they produce in Europe.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 2 November 2012 10: 41
      +9
      Are you laughing, Oleg?
      The Germans develop helicopters themselves, with airplanes - purchases from brothers in the European Union, where, by the way, there is a noticeable participation of German firms. What really interests Germany in Russia is its resources and market entry.
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 2 November 2012 12: 43
        +1
        Quote: Pimply
        The Germans develop helicopters themselves, with airplanes - purchases from brothers in the European Union, where, by the way, there is a noticeable participation of German firms. What really interests Germany in Russia is its resources and market entry.

        - there is the word "interesting", and there is the word "must". if the Germans are sensible, they will approach it sensibly and will be successful. To bend our own - there will be a corresponding position of Rogozin, we have their boxers and leopards in any way, we lived without them and we will still live for god knows how many years. Let them buy resources at market prices - they still do it, who is stopping them? Moreover, what the Germans take part in is very lame - I'm talking about an Eurofighter, the plane is so-so, a strong middle peasant. Their helicopters are mostly civilian, some models are adapted for military purposes, the Germans do not succeed at all in shock. As well as military transport. So if they interfere with fruitful cooperation, then only amers - there are suspicions that the Germans are completely dependent on this issue.
        Eo refusal of such cooperation will look exactly as you described, pimply.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 2 November 2012 19: 36
          +3
          Is the Impact Tiger a civilian class? 8) Funny. What can they offer? Obsolete at the moment by European characteristics of the machine?
          They will sell boxers as well. Like Leo.
          Russia first needs to establish a normal, after-sales service. And then even the Indians began to merge.
      2. bask
        bask 2 November 2012 13: 05
        +3
        With total competition from BAE Systems General Dynamix. FOR RETAINING, FLOATING, Rheinmetall just needs cooperation with Russia, with access to its market, and through us, the markets of South America and India !!! Purchases for the Bundeswehr itself, hundreds of units ... ((Boxers 200 pieces))))
        1. Kars
          Kars 2 November 2012 13: 22
          +3
          Quote: bask
          cooperation with Russia, with access to its market

          Rheinmetal does not shine the Russian markets, except for auxiliary contracts. Like the mentioned simulators. If the contract for Boxer passes to Russia, I will be severely surprised.
          As for cooperation, ----- this is one of the promising moments of the L120 55 mm smoothbore tank gun and a license for its production. This gun mounted on Russian tanks will increase the export potential of tanks, even simply by its availability and option offer.
          1. bask
            bask 2 November 2012 13: 39
            0
            Kars You are a great analyst. And not yet politicized. B. East markets are firmly divided between amers and British. The main, shock forces of corporations, I called. Russia has not been an enemy of the progmatic, the Ngemians for a long time and not when . So, we are waiting not only for the delivery of the “light” harrow for armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. But also for full-scale cooperation. In the field of licensed production of military equipment. Although, I personally am against, it is necessary, targeted purchase with their acquaintance and production of light armor, , And you must return to the BMP on the MT-S nodes of the Polish BMP-200 !!!!
    2. aksakal
      aksakal 2 November 2012 10: 41
      +5
      Quote: Joker
      Well, with the Germans you can cooperate very fruitfully, they have very good equipment and weapons. Instead, you can push them our helicopters and planes, they are by our heads better than the miracle that they produce in Europe.

      - welcome, Joker. I agree!
      We learn from the Jews how to work. Israelis impose this form of cooperation on everyone. They need a seaplane, I liked the Russian one, but here the Russians delayed with a return offer, bought from the Canadians. And they answered in joy, so much so that they turned out to be minuses -)))). Well, the peculiarity of working with the Israelis is that you work, get ready for the constant minuses in your gesheft. You do not want minuses - buy other goods which can be worse than Israeli. So we learn from them, this is not the only thing that does not bring minuses and losses .-))))).
      With the Germans and start working like that. Moreover, they liked the Russian MiG-29s that squeaked with the German Democratic Republic before squeaking, so far they are flying, they are ruining.
      Their boxer is very good, with a mass of 32 tons with a wide use of composites and ceramics, lighter than traditional armor, this turns out to be a very protected device. Let me remind you that the mass of a fairly well-protected T-90 is 48 tons. That is comparable to the T-90. And this despite the fact that he is a Boxer on wheels. That is, a mobile, with a large overhaul resource of the musculoskeletal system (let it not bother you, this is not a medical term, it’s a medic who stole technician mechanics and unscrupulously use it) the machine’s apparatus.
      We will see.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 2 November 2012 10: 45
        +1
        The Be-200 was not purchased in Israel, therefore, but because it has a number of rather serious shortcomings and inadequacy determined under Israeli conditions.
        And what is the difference in 16 tons - comparable?
        1. Tirpitz
          Tirpitz 2 November 2012 11: 31
          +2
          Quote: Pimply
          And what is the difference in 16 tons - comparable?

          The homogeneous armor on our tanks is heavier than the German composite.
          1. borisst64
            borisst64 2 November 2012 13: 26
            +1
            The quality of Russian metal is much worse than foreign. The reason is simple - rare-earth metals are stolen at all stages. It is hard to resist when you can make a monthly salary in your pocket. I myself have been working in metallurgy for many years.
            1. Armata
              Armata 2 November 2012 13: 33
              +6
              Quote: borisst64
              The quality of Russian metal is much worse than foreign. The reason is simple - rare-earth metals are stolen at all stages.

              Who told you this? In our laboratory, metals are tested from each batch. And it is just like we do not work with Lipetsk and Magnitogorsk. And the reason is that there metallurgists work on the initially underestimated quality of casting and rolling. A simple example. We ordered hire from Duferco (they rolled it from a round into a square). Duck, here we have a shell content of only 0,71%, and they have 1,25%. And what can be said after that?
              1. nic
                nic 2 November 2012 13: 46
                +4
                But it is necessary to blur it out, and moreover: "I myself have been working in metallurgy for many years."
                "Specialist" from the Internet. lol
              2. bask
                bask 2 November 2012 16: 12
                +1
                Mechanic. My brother just makes bolts and nuts for Renault in Moscow. So for a year now he has been working only on Taiwanese raw materials. Our rolled products and wires do not meet international standards., Steel grades ......... they drive raw materials and nekanditsyu.Kakaya on .. armor)))))
                1. Rockets
                  Rockets 2 November 2012 17: 07
                  +2
                  Quote: bask
                  My brother just makes bolts and nuts for Renault in Moscow.

                  Everything is much simpler.
                  The “price of the matter”, price, not quality, should not be confused with soft, with fluffy.
                  You confuse cause and effect.
                  Want to know more? Look for export statistics on Russian foundries and do not write nonsense
          2. bask
            bask 2 November 2012 16: 19
            -2
            Tirpitz Which, homogeneous, is now already proctically lost and this recipe. Composite, or rather combined, armor based on synthetic alloys. Everything was invented in the USSR back in the 70s. But in 90 the technology was lost. That's where it’s necessary to buy German technology in the tri-price. ..
            1. Rockets
              Rockets 2 November 2012 17: 17
              +3
              Quote: bask
              z Which, homogeneous, this recipe is already proctically lost. Composite, or rather combined, armor based on synthetic alloys. Everything was invented in the USSR back in the 70s. But in 90 technologies are lost.


              Come on, you will first delve into the essence of the topic, at least if you do not know ... And then give out pearls ...

              From what garbage can you rake it ???
        2. aksakal
          aksakal 2 November 2012 12: 32
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          The Be-200 was not purchased in Israel, therefore, but because it has a number of rather serious shortcomings and inadequacy determined under Israeli conditions.

          - they didn’t say so at all, but not at all -))).
          Remember your own words.
          Quote: Pimply
          And what is the difference in 16 tons - comparable?

          Tirpitz famously noted below. And the word "Comparable" is not at all a synonym for the word "equal", and even more so it is not a synonym for the word "superior". "Comparable" means, somewhere close, only in this sense, it means numbers of the same order. You just find fault -)))). Or take it too literally. But in this case, the great and the mighty must be taught.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 2 November 2012 20: 58
            0
            I remember this post-fire situation well, and I remember why they did not take Be-200. In particular, in Israel, the method of rapid water withdrawal, which was proposed at Be-200, is a little problematic.
            1. kostello2004
              kostello2004 3 December 2012 14: 47
              0
              Could not take kosher water?
      2. Greyfox
        Greyfox 2 November 2012 11: 45
        +2
        They got rid of the MiG-29, giving them to Poland (and quite a while ago). Do not harbor false illusions - our weapons have not fallen to them in one place ....
  4. Mavsik
    Mavsik 2 November 2012 09: 04
    +4
    Ours must learn to understand the army not only as a unit that shoots, but also as a military-industrial complex with everything attached to it.
    A country like Russia, if it follows some geopolitical goals, the army should be independent of foreign manufacturers. Moreover, our technology is in no way inferior to Western models in terms of price / quality ratio. At least recall the story of the Italian Lynx, which traveled around the obstacle course or about Israeli drones not intended for our winters, as well as German tent camps. By the way, I don’t hear anything about Mistral, does anyone know what is wrong with him?
  5. Pinochet000
    Pinochet000 2 November 2012 09: 05
    +3
    Leo2 revolutionized an interesting machine, like a boxer ..... ours, if they do everything wisely ( winked ) from cooperation only benefit, this is not Italian trash .... IMHO
    1. Tirpitz
      Tirpitz 2 November 2012 12: 25
      +3
      That's for sure, I’m sure that there will be a lot of usefulness for the armata if you study 2A7 +
  6. LaGlobal
    LaGlobal 2 November 2012 09: 17
    +1
    Good morning everybody! With all due respect to Vladimir Vladimirovich and Dmitry Anatolyevich, but my opinion remains unchanged! I will explain: with the advent of this cattle Serdyukov, OUR DEFENSE crashes after collapse, plants become bankrupt (fiction felts, only dick understand) why is this all done. They also ceased to produce their samples, with new drags on and come up with complete excuses, we purchase Western weapons! - WHAT FOR???

    They’re just doing it - it’s laundering the invested billions of rubles! PPC simply, there are no words on this GON * IT. And why will we be surprised in a few years?

    PS it is necessary to plant this nits for a long time ... And in a dick that he is someone's brother-in-law.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 2 November 2012 10: 42
      +2
      The defense industry has been crashing since the 90's, with the arrival of Serdyukov, at the very least, it has some distinct shifts. By the way, if you are sure that the defense of the USSR was an ideal, there are also many rebuttals.
      1. LaGlobal
        LaGlobal 2 November 2012 14: 08
        0
        I can not agree, because I believe that in much of the merit here is precisely Vladimir Vladimirovich himself and comrade Dmitry Rogozin. And this ... xs on in fact.

        Yes, no doubt, he did some pleasant things for the army: for example, now it’s not the soldiers themselves who cook the canteen (they need to peel potatoes and do other things not soldier’s things), but the cook. Etc. etc.
        Too lazy to paint now, because I bring my thought to Kratz.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 2 November 2012 20: 59
          0
          Rogozin? It’s ridiculous. Putin - yes, to a large extent.
        2. kostello2004
          kostello2004 3 December 2012 14: 46
          0
          it would be better to clean the Dagestan boys who want to serve, who would protect us in high esteem
  7. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 2 November 2012 09: 21
    +3
    No, if anything, it’s better for you, on our ...
  8. Samovar
    Samovar 2 November 2012 09: 27
    +4
    At first, Saudi human rights activists spoke out against supplies of tanks.

    Thus, Rheinmetall has lost or risks losing a very good contract with a very good price due to political differences.

    I wish the Americans had such human rights defenders. They will generally bankrupt all military production with their "human rights protection". winked
    1. Kir
      Kir 2 November 2012 18: 25
      0
      Once again, one can make sure that the chicks of whose nest are human rights activists! By the way, here I had a dispute with the "German" about amers. You should have seen how he cares about them! Looks like many of today's "Germans" have ancestors from not Germany, otherwise they would have remembered the bombing of peaceful Dresden!
      But in general, if they told our ancestors at war that German armored vehicles would crawl along "our streets" and the equipment of soldiers would be based on other people's materials, they would probably do the same with those who thought of this as T.Bulba with his son!
  9. Wedmak
    Wedmak 2 November 2012 09: 28
    +2
    Yeah .... we have a rich history of "cooperation" with the Germans. But ours need not just buy equipment, we need to buy technology and make our own on their basis - then there will be a sense.
  10. sq
    sq 2 November 2012 10: 20
    +5
    We must not adapt to the Germans, but the Germans to stand for us. To borrow from them the best, first of all [b] production discipline and thoroughness in work. For Russia, the Russified Germans did a lot, at least a little able to inculcate the concept of obligation to our Slavic slobs.
    1. bask
      bask 11 November 2012 17: 40
      0
      sq,
      quote: we must not build on the Germans. We like that and do not build. Each has his own technologies.
  11. kov
    kov 2 November 2012 10: 24
    0
    again about the boxer

  12. Slevinst
    Slevinst 2 November 2012 13: 04
    +2
    if you buy foreign equipment just to study a few copies, I don’t understand at all how to trust the Germans, I’m sure they didn’t forgive the loss in the war and where is the guarantee that the leopard will not have any nano bug in case of a conflict that will lead missiles to yourself into the most vulnerable spot. We buy rip technology and go to a warehouse where foreign equipment is stored
    1. bask
      bask 11 November 2012 17: 42
      0
      SlevinstIf you buy
      Of course it is justified
  13. Bigriver
    Bigriver 2 November 2012 13: 10
    0
    Rheinmetall, in the 2nd World War, did a good job on the side of the USSR against Germany. From our 45mm anti-tank guns 53-K and M-42 to the ZIS-S-53 tank guns on the T-34. All this is "Mama Rheinmetal".
  14. Slevinst
    Slevinst 2 November 2012 14: 19
    -1
    Reinmetal representative minusanul laughing
  15. forma2
    forma2 2 November 2012 14: 42
    +1
    Leopard 2 - what's so big about it?
    The front side is CONCRETE !!! Armor and active defense.
    And the side? I see only "armor", albeit stuffed.
    And the butt ???, and the upper hemisphere ???
    The section line in the frontal sphere resembles the raised "female cabaret dancers' skirt". Why is it good for aerodynamics (at high speeds, the dust raised by the rockets smoothly under the turret passes into the rear part while increasing the vehicle's stealth and providing a good view of the crew).
    In modern warfare, no one attacks the tank head-on, and the remaining projections are no better than our modernized T-72. drinks
  16. bazilio
    bazilio 2 November 2012 14: 52
    0
    If you buy weapons in the west, then only the best.
    The purchase and use of foreign tanks in the Russian army will allow you to study the equipment of "potential friends". In addition, in the case of the capture of trophy similar equipment, it will be possible to use it. But the main part should be domestically produced tanks.
    1. kostello2004
      kostello2004 3 December 2012 14: 45
      0
      I doubt that your somebody will be captured, that they will run away as it was with the Georgians, but they’ll vryatli capture it
  17. SenyaYa
    SenyaYa 2 November 2012 19: 07
    0
    Rheinmetal boring)) the best of Germany)) BMW and Mercedes nervously smoke
  18. Simple
    Simple 2 November 2012 20: 00
    +2
    Standorte weltweit Rheinmetall Defense:
    Deutschland, Schweden, Norwegen, Großbritannien, Italien, Griechenland, Österreich, Schweiz, Niederlande, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate, Südafrika, Indien, Singapur, Malaysia, Australien, Kanada,
    USA, Indien.
    Not enough: Russia, China, Brazil (if the State Department gives the go-ahead).

    Business is nothing personal.
  19. Alone
    Alone 3 November 2012 04: 04
    +2
    Quote: crazyrom
    At least one German tank defeated one of our tanks without much difficulty.

    For example, one German tank won without any difficulty, won our tank - IS?
  20. Max raut
    Max raut 3 November 2012 16: 42
    0
    I think it will come out of sense.
    German quality + domestic reliability.
    1. Kir
      Kir 3 November 2012 17: 34
      +1
      And how are you going to combine these things! Their equipment and technology at the finish, and our materials? if along such a path, my dear is forced to disappoint you, this path is absolutely dead end, have tried more than once! the proper quality didn’t come out, even crack! The only way for them is raw materials and we have a finished product, but then what are we interested in?
    2. kostello2004
      kostello2004 3 December 2012 14: 44
      -1
      Well, what reliability?
  21. kostello2004
    kostello2004 3 December 2012 14: 43
    -1
    finally, technology doesn’t come to us; not everyone rides on t-90 type buckets, the Chelyabinsk tank plant in the furnace