Military Review

Tungsten diving crowbars for the US Navy: 30-mm Swimmer sub-caliber shells

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Source: goodfon.ru

Yes, there is no joke here. Feathered armor-piercing sub-caliber shells are the lot of not only ground military equipment in the face tanks, BMP and more. This was perfectly proved by the Norwegian company Nammo, which, with the participation of Finland, created the 30-mm Swimmer projectile for Bushmaster II automatic guns installed on US warships.


Due to its high armor penetration characteristics, the Swimmer is able to effectively hit armored vehicles, and its design features make it possible to destroy both surface targets and objects located at shallow depths. Let's take a closer look at it.

What are they needed for?


As always, the first and already traditional question is: in what way is it needed at all? With armored vehicles, everything seems to be very clear. Cannons of tanks and automatic guns of light combat vehicles need sub-caliber shells to fight their own kind - that is, to penetrate armor. Also, in some cases - to destroy the infantry behind the thick walls of buildings and fortifications, which are too tough for high-explosive fragmentation ammunition.

And the ships? On the one hand, it is unlikely that a 30-mm projectile will cause serious damage to any destroyer or aircraft carrier. And the shooting distance is too small - not to get close. On the other hand, for enemy boats and other small vessels, as well as torpedoes, mines or naval drones, the power of a sub-caliber projectile will be excessive. But first things first.

There is such a thing under the index Mk. 46 Mod 2 Gun Weapon System is a remotely controlled combat module consisting of a 30-mm Bushmaster II gun mounted in a turret and an aiming system, which includes a thermal imager, a television surveillance channel and a laser rangefinder. You can see this gun mount in the US Navy, for example, on ships of the San-Antonio, Zumwalt and Freedom class.

Gun mount Mk.46 Mod. 2 on the San-Antonio-class landing craft. Source: seaforces.org
Gun mount Mk. 46 Mod. 2 on the San-Antonio-class landing craft. Source: seaforces.org

The main purpose of this weapon system is to destroy small, high-speed and dangerous drifting targets in the immediate vicinity of the ship. This, as already noted, includes high-speed boats, small boats, torpedoes, mines and marine drones moving on the surface of the water. But there is a small (actually - big) snag.

The fact is that the standard Bushmaster ammunition load is not very suitable for such tasks. Yes, under ideal conditions, it is possible to make a hole in a boat from the very first burst from a cannon. And if there is no calm, but there is a wave? Or is the dangerous object moving at a shallow depth? Here, conventional shells may not be able to cope, since their “floating” shape corresponds a little more than nothing.

Gun mounts Mk.46 Mod. 2 on a Freedom-class ship. Source: seaforces.org
Gun mounts Mk. 46 Mod. 2 on a Freedom-class ship. Source: seaforces.org

When meeting with a wave, shells of a typical pointed shape change their trajectory in the water column and can move away from the target. The same thing happens if you need to shoot at some torpedo going at a shallow depth. Do not forget about the ricochet from the water surface - a large part of the shells will simply fly away "into milk" when they meet the water at a slight angle, which manifests itself at significant firing distances.

As a result: an increased consumption of ammunition for the destruction of one target, or even the inability to hit it at all. And these are not all the shortcomings that the Norwegian Swimmer compensates for.

Norwegian "Swimmer"


The swimmer, created by the Norwegian company Nammo together with the Finns, received the index Mk. 258 mod. 1 and in many sources, including official military reports, is referred to as "supercavitational". Well, of course, this shell received such a nickname for a reason.

Cartridge with Mk.258 Mod. 1 Swimmer (Swimmer). Source: www.dzen.ru
Cartridge with Mk. 258 mod. 1 Swimmer (Swimmer). Source: www.dzen.ru

Structurally, the active part of the projectile consists of a monoblock “arrow” made of tungsten alloy with sub-caliber plumage, the total length of which is 188 mm, diameter - 9 mm, and weight - 150 grams. Closer to the middle of its body, there is a thread for installing a master device, the purpose of which, in general, is clear without much explanation: guiding the projectile in the barrel and obturating powder gases. The whole structure is packed in a metal sleeve, and a protective plastic cap is put on the head part.

It should be noted that the ballistic characteristics of the "Swimmer" turned out to be quite good. The canopy of gunpowder in the sleeve is enough to give it an initial speed of about 1 meters per second, that is, in fact, this figure is at the level of 430-mm guns. Speed, coupled with tungsten alloy, mass and diameter of the active part of the projectile give decent armor penetration. It, according to the manufacturer, but without specifying the angle of inclination of the armor barrier, is 105 mm of homogeneous steel armor of medium hardness from 100 meters.

Of course, the penetration characteristics are indicated for, let's say, "land" conditions. This is how much a projectile can penetrate, flying a kilometer through the air, and not in the water. However, given that the Norwegians are positioning the "Swimmer" as a universal tool, he can fight with armored vehicles with great chances of success. It will be enough to destroy most armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, as well as tanks, but only in side and aft projections - in weakened zones.

But this does not mean that these "sub-calibers" will be fired from ship gun mounts. It’s just that Bushmasters and other variations of guns chambered for 30x173 mm are also installed on land equipment.

And what about this "supercavitation" and the naval mission of the "Swimmer"? Let's take a look at the projectile, since there are photos to compare the regular version with the "sea" one.

Cartridge with Mk.258 Mod. 1 Swimmer (Swimmer) on the right and Mk.258 Mod 0 on the left. Source: forum.cartridgecollectors.org
Cartridge with Mk. 258 mod. 1 Swimmer (Swimmer) on the right and Mk. 258 Mod 0 on the left. Source: forum.cartridgecollectors.org

You can see that the head of the "Swimmer" is far from a pointed shape. His nose itself is blunted or, if you like, cut off horizontally. The diameter at this point is 2,3 mm. In addition, the conical part of the nose has a smooth transition to the cylindrical part to give greater streamlining.

It just promotes supercavitation. When a projectile is introduced into the water column, an area of ​​extremely high pressure is formed in the area of ​​​​the blunted head part, which exceeds the vapor pressure. As a result, when it falls sharply behind the warhead, steam bubbles appear, which envelop the projectile and reduce its friction in the aquatic environment. As a result, the catastrophic drop in speed, if we are talking about conventional ammunition, is greatly reduced, which positively affects both the trajectory of the projectile and its penetrating ability.


Shooting "Swimmers" on the water surface

In practice, this means that, unlike standard pointed projectiles, the Swimmer can successfully hit targets even through the waves and at a certain depth - the burst from the cannon will definitely not scatter on the sides.

A positively "dull-headed" Norwegian product also affects ricochets, or rather, minimizes the likelihood of their occurrence. When hitting the water surface, the flat nose of the projectile does not slide on it, but immediately goes under the water. A very, very conditional parallel can be drawn with armor-piercing shells with a blunt warhead common during the Great Patriotic War, which worked well against the sloped armor of tanks.

But, as expected, it is not necessary to demand any superpowers from the Swimmer, since water is not air, and it is simply impossible to ensure a stable speed in it without any engines. But what the Norwegian can give is already good and almost the limit for 30-mm guns.

Despite the fact that some publications speak of almost 200-300 meters that the projectile can overcome under water, the real lethal distances in the water that the military demanded are limited to 20-30 meters. Within these limits, the Swimmer maintains a speed of around 900 meters per second, which is enough to hit any torpedoes when firing at the smallest angles from the water surface, as well as to disable surface objects in the form of boats and other things, taking into account waves. You can, of course, shoot at great depths, but hitting some submarine 200 meters from the surface is unlikely to work - that's not what the projectile is needed for.

Conclusions


What can I say? "Swimmer" Mk. 258 mod. 1 came out really good. For ship artillery installations with Bushmasters, it fits perfectly. There is practically no information about the exact number of shots of this (up to a few) type for the US Navy, but it flashed regularly in government orders of the American government. It is understandable - practically the only small-caliber projectile that is able to equally deal with both surface targets dangerous for ships and targets located at shallow depths, mainly torpedoes.

But perhaps the most remarkable thing here is that these Norwegian ammunition can be used not only to arm warships, but also for ground armored vehicles. A sort of station wagon, which is useful both at sea and on land.
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  1. Bingo
    Bingo 23 November 2022 07: 04
    +18
    Well, cavitation is a well-known phenomenon. One question - THE FUCK is there tungsten? We have a sky-high cost with completely incomprehensible pluses. It will swim a little further, hit a LITTLE harder - but at a cost an order of magnitude, if not two, higher. A steel blank in the water column, in contact with an unarmored torpedo, will still make a hole through it. And armored boats are very unlikely to be trampled on a destroyer - this is some kind of heresy. What can an armored boat do with a destroyer? say hello?
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 23 November 2022 07: 34
      +7
      One question - THE FUCK is there tungsten?

      so that in the event of a real war, immediately sit back from the lack of this very tungsten - the main deposits in China and Russia ..
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 23 November 2022 07: 41
        +4
        It is unlikely that they will have to shoot hundreds of our torpedoes coming in flocks
    2. Civil
      Civil 23 November 2022 07: 35
      +3
      Quote from Bingo
      Well, cavitation is a well-known phenomenon. One question - THE FUCK is there tungsten? We have a sky-high cost with completely incomprehensible pluses. It will swim a little further, hit a LITTLE harder - but at a cost an order of magnitude, if not two, higher. A steel blank in the water column, in contact with an unarmored torpedo, will still make a hole through it. And armored boats are very unlikely to be trampled on a destroyer - this is some kind of heresy. What can an armored boat do with a destroyer? say hello?

      I support, incomprehensible bells and whistles ...
    3. tlauicol
      tlauicol 23 November 2022 07: 40
      +2

      To density. We have a heavy projectile at 30mm
    4. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 23 November 2022 07: 44
      +2
      Quote from Bingo
      What can an armored boat do with a destroyer? say hello?

      You talk apolitically, you understand! The author transparently hinted at the "Mikola ..." naval drones and the "Bogdan" AUVs, converted from Razorbacks! What else do you need? When that's enough!
      1. agond
        agond 23 November 2022 08: 22
        +2
        Probably, tungsten was needed so that the projectile slowed down more slowly when moving under water, because it is 2.4 times heavier than steel, that is, with the same diameters, the tungsten rod will be 2.4 shorter, naturally, the gun cartridge will also be shorter.
        1. VicktorVR
          VicktorVR 23 November 2022 10: 13
          +6
          Water braking depends only on the shape and size. Well, yes, even from the cube of speed.

          A projectile is made heavy to save the energy of the shot, which for a flying projectile is proportional to the mass and the square of the speed, the speed decreases due to the resistance of the environment, but the mass does not disappear.
          In the case of a sub-caliber projectile, the mass is even more relevant, because. it is of small volume - to reduce the cross section and acc. resistance of the medium, since, as can be seen from the formula, speed plays an even greater role than mass.

          Tungsten is used not so much because of its density, then lead is much more profitable, but because of its hardness and strength.

          In principle, in theory, if you don’t really need strength, then you can ... But by the way, bullets are made with lead inside and steel outside, and armor-piercing ones with a core or tip.

          Most likely, on the scale of an arrow with a diameter of 9 mm, all tricks are unnecessary.
          Well, it might make sense to solder the carbide tip, which is done in other calibers, but is it worth the candle...
      2. Eduard Egorov
        Eduard Egorov 23 November 2022 13: 20
        0
        For the stability of the flight in the water column, it is necessary that the projectile be longer, and it is not necessary to make it from tungsten.
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 23 November 2022 17: 03
          +1
          Quote: Edward Egorov
          For the stability of the flight in the water column, it is necessary that the projectile be longer, and it is not necessary to make it from tungsten.

          Yeah, now convert all the guns to a long projectile
    5. spirit
      spirit 23 November 2022 13: 46
      +3
      One question - FUCK there tungsten
      As we all see, the era of Drones is now beginning. The effectiveness of Ukrainian homemade products has confirmed this. And now imagine a good factory, armored drone boat or drone torpedo, which will just go at shallow depths. And here such a projectile will help a lot and pay off the cost. with a couple of hundred kg of warheads, it will cause very significant damage. Regards hi
    6. stankow
      stankow 24 November 2022 01: 02
      0
      Tungsten is three times heavier than steel. Accordingly, the transverse load increases. And the speed is maintained. On under water.
      1. fa2998
        fa2998 26 November 2022 14: 01
        0
        Quote: stankow
        Tungsten is three times heavier than steel. Accordingly, the transverse load increases. And the speed is maintained. On under water.

        Uranium is also dense (19,1). After enrichment (235 is withdrawn), uranium-238 already goes as "waste". Useful waste. hi
        1. stankow
          stankow 26 November 2022 23: 59
          0
          What's true is true. Depleted uranium cores for Western 30 mm guns are even more common.
    7. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 24 November 2022 04: 37
      -1
      Quote from Bingo
      A steel blank in the water column, in contact with an unarmored torpedo, will still make a hole through it.

      A torpedo is not a rocket; when launched, even from a depth of 200 m, it needs fairly strong walls.
      In general, the author of an article about BTT is much better at it.
    8. SergeyB
      SergeyB 25 November 2022 20: 25
      +1
      Quote from Bingo
      A steel blank in the water column, in contact with an unarmored torpedo, will still make a hole through it.

      Yes, that is not the question at all. How does this gun even get into a torpedo? How will she be directed at her?
      The gun is equipped with systems for detecting and guiding surface / ground targets. These systems will not see underwater targets. And this cannon installation is not connected in any way with underwater sonars and cannot receive target designation from them.
      Thus, manual guidance remains.
      And what is the probability for a person to visually notice a modern torpedo, at least 5 seconds before hitting? Most likely around zero.
      The probability of hitting a torpedo is completely absent.
    9. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 27 November 2022 20: 46
      0
      Quote from Bingo
      What can an armored boat do with a destroyer? say hello?

      To hit with an ATGM on a radar or wheelhouse, and if there are a dozen boats, and even unmanned ones (which is not a pity to lose) ... they won’t drown, but they will fight notably, until they lose their combat capability.
      1. Bingo
        Bingo 27 November 2022 20: 52
        0
        Quote: And Us Rat
        Hit the ATGM on the radar or wheelhouse,

        So let's say, combat capability will remain - and therefore there will be an answer ...
        It's like from a joke - "it's illogical and illegal, but now you give me five"
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 28 November 2022 17: 14
          0
          Quote from Bingo
          So let's say, combat capability will remain

          It’s not a fact if these are 10 boats of 4-8 ATGMs each .... Even if only half fly ... Radars, wheelhouse, launchers, gun turrets, communication antennas, waterline ... then it won’t fight much.
          Not in vain, in recent years, around the world there has been a tendency to arm small ships and boats with ATGMs.
          They are not only dangerous to the mosquito fleet.

    10. anclevalico
      anclevalico 2 December 2022 07: 41
      0
      And who said that there can not be modifications? It will not be difficult to transfer the defense industry from tungsten to steel, if such a need arises.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 23 November 2022 09: 17
    +1
    in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe blunted head part, a section of extremely high pressure is formed that exceeds the vapor pressure. As a result, steam bubbles appear that envelop the projectile
    The cavitation region does not arise from increased, but from low pressurewhen the pressure in the medium is compared with the saturated vapor pressure of this medium and the liquid boils. And reduced pressure occurs in the separation zone behind the blunted nose. The same principle is in our torpedo "Shkval" developed in the 70s of the last century. In general, the Norwegians presented the so-called. "diving shells", known for over 100 years, they were used back in WWI against submarines. The result is not very good.
    1. Victorovich
      Victorovich 24 November 2022 12: 02
      0
      I also looked and looked at the core .. but I still didn’t understand how they were going to use cavitation there ....
      SQUAL used cavitation, but it had a cavitator.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 24 November 2022 19: 03
        0
        but I didn’t understand how they were going to use cavitation there ....
        The blunt tip is the cavitator. The size of the cavitation zone depends on its size. It begins at the sharp edge of a blunt tip, where, as in any separation zone, the pressure is reduced.
  4. solar
    solar 23 November 2022 10: 17
    0
    hitting a submarine 200 meters from the surface is unlikely to work

    And at periscope depth, it will work out.
    Although it is not clear, to be honest, why the submarine will go to the periscope at such a distance. But anything happens.
    1. Seamaster
      Seamaster 23 November 2022 13: 14
      +1
      At what other "periscope depth"? Already in the 60s, they explained to us at the military department that if, during an attack, when passing a mission, a submarine raises the periscope above the water even for a second, then the attack is considered to be thwarted, and the boat is destroyed.
  5. Duncan
    Duncan 23 November 2022 13: 41
    +1
    After firing at Geraniums with dozens of barrels, one can doubt the ability of 9 mm darts to stop a boat or a torpedo.
    1. Predometrix
      Predometrix 23 November 2022 14: 45
      -5
      How can you write a comment about 30mm darts after reading an article about 9mm autocannon sub-caliber shells?
      1. Oleg812spb
        Oleg812spb 23 November 2022 15: 39
        +1
        Do you know about the device and principle of operation of a sub-caliber feathered projectile (BOPS)?
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 23 November 2022 16: 33
        +2
        Quote from Predometrix
        How can you write a comment about 30mm darts after reading an article about 9mm autocannon sub-caliber shells?

        How can you, after reading an article about 30-mm autocannon sub-caliber shells, confuse the caliber of the projectile and the striking element? wink
        There is really scrap with a diameter of a pistol bullet:
        Structurally, the active part of the projectile consists of a monoblock “arrow” made of tungsten alloy with sub-caliber plumage, the total length of which is 188 mm, diameter - 9 mm, and the weight is 150 grams.
  6. km-21
    km-21 23 November 2022 15: 31
    0
    Whether such a solution is effective or not, time and combat experience will show.
    The sad thing is that this experience will not be acquired by us, but by our enemies.
    1. agond
      agond 23 November 2022 16: 58
      +1
      Actually, a cartridge with a Mk. 258 Mod. 1 Swimmer is made to the length dimensions of a standard 30mm Bushmaster II automatic cannon cartridge, and using cartridges with long steel blanks instead of tungsten will increase the length of the cartridge size.
  7. Dead duck
    Dead duck 23 November 2022 20: 27
    +1
    Of course, everyone forgot about "APS" and about its cartridges and bullets.
    And in a collision with water, especially at high speeds, it is often not a change in the direction of flight, but the destruction of a bullet-projectile.
  8. bk0010
    bk0010 23 November 2022 21: 57
    -1
    I saw a video where a man in the pool was shot with a pistol from 3 meters. The bullet didn't hit. The caliber is the same (9 mm), the nose of the bullet is similar. Why would it be different all of a sudden? On one cavitation, without an engine, it will not float far. A projectile in the form of a needle would have a chance, I guess.
    1. Oleg812spb
      Oleg812spb 24 November 2022 11: 11
      0
      This is for you to broaden your horizons - https://topwar.ru/169862-iz-chego-streljajut-boevye-plovcy-top-5-podvodnyh-avtomatov-i-pistoletov
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 24 November 2022 20: 15
        0
        Quote: Oleg812spb
        This is for you to broaden your horizons - https://topwar.ru/169862-iz-chego-streljajut-boevye-plovcy-top-5-podvodnyh-avtomatov-i-pistoletov
        There is no such page. But I am aware of the existence of underwater and two-medium weapons. And in the course of what it shoots - needles, in fact. And in the article - not a needle at all, the caliber is 9mm, like a bullet.
        1. Oleg812spb
          Oleg812spb 27 November 2022 18: 28
          0
          Hmm, strange, the file extension was lost - https://topwar.ru/169862-iz-chego-streljajut-boevye-plovcy-top-5-podvodnyh-avtomatov-i-pistoletov.html, there is about Z-84, which Shoots standard 9mm Parabellum. Immediately, the striking element is a high-speed core - "minilomic" with a diameter of 9 mm made of hard and heavy alloy, the rest is a detachable pan / obturator, which is separated from the core after leaving the barrel. The only change is a supercavitating/blunt nose, which should not allow the "crowbar" to ricochet and change the trajectory when it hits the water surface at an acute angle and reduce the loss of speed in the water.
    2. Edward Perov
      26 November 2022 05: 52
      0
      A multi-medium projectile and a bullet from a machine gun in water are different things. Comparing a tomato to a watermelon?
  9. Nord11
    Nord11 23 November 2022 22: 08
    0
    All this, of course, is sincere and inspiring, but how in practice will it be possible to hit a nimble torpedo, and not plant a cheap projectile nearby?
  10. Seamaster
    Seamaster 24 November 2022 00: 00
    +5
    Some kind of garbage.
    The torpedo goes at a depth of 5-15 meters (depending on the target), it must be hit at a distance of at least 3-5 cables.
    Estimate at what angle the projectile will enter the water at such a distance. I answer: less than 1 degree to the sea surface. AND WILL HE ENTER THE WATER AT ALL? And if it does, how far will it go STRAIGHT before it goes down to 5-10 meters.? Yes, his factory will end by then.
    And at surface targets it is better to shoot with high-explosive shells, and not with nails with a diameter of 9 millimeters and a price equal to gold in the same weight.
    The Norgs breed their camarades for grandmas not like children.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Seamaster
        Seamaster 26 November 2022 13: 18
        0
        But will just pieces of tungsten fly there? This refers to the cost of producing the WHOLE PROJECT. Using your methodology, the cost of a Lamborghini is equal to the cost of 2 tons of cast iron, that is, one hundred dollars.
        1. Edward Perov
          26 November 2022 15: 46
          0
          But will just pieces of tungsten fly there, but will just pieces of tungsten fly there? This refers to the cost of producing the WHOLE PROJECT. Using your methodology, the cost of a Lamborghini is equal to the cost of 2 tons of cast iron, that is, one hundred dollars.? This refers to the cost of producing the WHOLE PROJECT. Using your methodology, the cost of a Lamborghini is equal to the cost of 2 tons of cast iron, that is, one hundred dollars.


          The Americans gloss over the exact cost in the documents. Let's take the naval state contract 8 years ago.

          It is indicated that a batch of shells of this type will cost almost 12 and a half million dollars. We are talking about thousands of pieces.

          And do not forget that hundreds of thousands of tungsten shells for tank guns and other artillery have been produced in the world, including in the USSR and the Russian Federation. In addition, the Canister projectile for Abrams, carrying tungsten buckshot, was put into service in the United States.

          Tungsten in the balance of efficiency / price is not as expensive as it is commonly believed.
    2. Oleg812spb
      Oleg812spb 27 November 2022 18: 43
      0
      Equally interesting is how they are going to aim at a torpedo / underwater target. After all, a direct hit is required, and most likely, more than one
  11. Victorovich
    Victorovich 24 November 2022 11: 53
    +1
    [quote = Aviator_] [quote] in the area of ​​​​the blunted warhead, an area of ​​extremely high pressure is formed that exceeds the vapor pressure. As a result, steam bubbles appear that envelop the projectile [/ quote]
    For cavitation to envelop the projectile, you need cavitator!! And something is not visible at the projectile! And who will develop it for such a projectile ?????
    The more you think about this news, the more it seems that today is April 1st.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  12. restless
    restless 24 November 2022 23: 20
    0
    How to hit a torpedo with this projectile if it goes under water at a depth of up to 50 meters, besides electric ones, the time has passed when torpedoes went near the surface and emitted a covitational, thermal and wake trail. Or will they point to an acoustic signal, I don’t understand how this projectile will work against a torpedo ???
  13. acetophenone
    acetophenone 25 November 2022 20: 28
    0
    Is Readers' Choice the article with the fewest comments? Or does the editorial office have "special readers" who have chosen it?
    1. The comment was deleted.
  14. cat-begemot
    cat-begemot 26 November 2022 04: 13
    0
    A queue for a boat and a torpedo at the price of a wing from a Boeing? I think that it smells like cutting the budget here. Moreover, shooting along the surface of the water with any projectile material will cause 100% ricochets. contact with water, water is no different from concrete.
    1. Edward Perov
      26 November 2022 06: 10
      -1
      on a boat and a torpedo at the price of a wing from a Boeing?


      How many shells are there? Let's take 30 shells. 4.5 kg of conditional tungsten. Pure tungsten for our rubles - well, about 9 thousand. Let's increase it by 5 times for doping. Boeing wing costs 45 thousand rubles? Let's go at 10? I'll assemble a whole Boeing 747 for lam then. We must tell our aviators.
    2. Edward Perov
      26 November 2022 06: 18
      0
      Moreover, shooting along the surface of the water with any projectile material 100% will cause ricochets


      Come on? The Norwegians fired, nothing flies away. For some reason the video is not working. In YouTube, enter nammo swimmer. They shot - nobody flew into the forehead.
  15. cat-begemot
    cat-begemot 26 November 2022 18: 30
    0
    Quote: Eduard Perov
    Moreover, shooting along the surface of the water with any projectile material 100% will cause ricochets


    Come on? The Norwegians fired, nothing flies away. For some reason the video is not working. In YouTube, enter nammo swimmer. They shot - nobody flew into the forehead.

    You are stubborn and probably stupid .. The price of ammunition is not determined by the price of scrap metal, and according to statistics, the turn to kill can, according to statistics, be 100 shots for a 1000% defeat. Only a theorist can guarantee the defeat of a projectile moving in two environments and with possible excitement of the water .In practice, only the refraction of the angle of view in water can reduce the accuracy of shooting by 100%. And at angles of entry into the water close to 0 ° under any other conditions, the rebound is 50 to 50. Shooting from top to bottom is already possible in the minimum proximity to the side, and it doesn’t guarantee that the attack can be prevented or stopped in time. In the case of shooting at underwater targets, subsonic cartridges showed themselves best. The resistance of the environment at low bullet speeds is several times lower. and more accurate than a bullet from an AK.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Edward Perov
      27 November 2022 02: 59
      0
      You are stubborn and probably stupid .. The price of ammunition is not determined by the price of scrap metal

      The price is determined by the cost of materials, related manufacturing work, logistics issues, tax fees and other aspects. You state that the price of the Mk.258 Mod.1 burst is equal to the price of a Boeing wing. That is, you have data on how much each shot costs - show them. So far, we have only introductory US government orders, which I posted above in the comments. Almost 12.5 million dollars for the N-th batch, in which it is not known how many shells.

      At the same time, I would like to find an explanation for the fact that shells based on tungsten alloys, as expensive as a Boeing wing, are produced and produced, if we take global production, in hundreds of thousands of units, if not millions. This includes sub-caliber shells for tank guns, anti-tank artillery and small-caliber guns However, I will answer for you: the balance of price / efficiency in the direction of efficiency exceeds.

      and the turn to kill can, according to statistics, for a 100% defeat be 1000 shots

      Some kind of wild scam comes out of the Norwegians: to scoop out almost the entire stack of shots for a gun mount on one target.

      In practice, only the refraction of the angle of view in the water can reduce the accuracy of shooting by 100%.

      Maybe quite even. It all depends on the fire control complex and the range to the target.

      And at angles of entry into the water close to 0 ° under any other conditions, the rebound is 50 to 50

      Is this from personal observations of firing supercavitating projectiles at torpedoes and other objects? Or again exclusively own conclusions?

      Shooting from top to bottom is already possible in the minimum proximity to the side, which means that it does not guarantee that the attack can be prevented or stopped in time.

      No one talked about kilometer distances. All developments related to supercavitating projectiles for anti-torpedo protection are limited to a close radius of a couple of hundred meters from the ship. Hence the research of the Norwegians and Americans, which are illustrated in the picture, which is attached below.