With a machine gun against "Geranium". Ukrainian attempts to create interceptor drones

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With a machine gun against "Geranium". Ukrainian attempts to create interceptor drones
"Geranium-2" in flight. Missing tracers are visible. Frame from video Telegram / sashakots


Ukraine is looking for workable and effective methods and means to combat Russian Geran-2 unmanned aerial vehicles. Various systems are offered, incl. special Drones- interceptors carrying small arms weapon. According to the latest data, such products have already appeared, and foreign components and technologies were used in their creation.



Unmanned News


On October 18, reports appeared on Ukrainian resources about the creation of a UAV with a machine gun on board. This product was made by some volunteers specifically for the fight against Russian strike aircraft. The message was accompanied by a couple of short videos showing the preparations for takeoff and the actual flight.

When and where these videos were filmed is unknown. The green grass and light clothing of the “actors” suggest that the flights took place in the summer. It is possible that the UAVs were assembled long before the first Geranium strikes.

Technical details were not provided, but the video shows some features of the artisanal project. The basis of the complex was a hexacopter. From below, a suspension with guidance drives was attached to it, on which a machine gun or its imitation was installed. The use of weapons was not demonstrated.

Literally the next day, October 19, the topic of interceptor drones was raised by the Israeli edition of Debka Files. From its sources in Ukraine, it learned that such equipment had indeed appeared at the disposal of the armed formations. In addition, unnamed sources in the Ukrainian units revealed some details.


Ukrainian drone-interceptor with a machine gun. Frame from video from unknown "volunteers"

According to Debka-Files, the interception UAVs were manufactured by the Ukrainian side independently, but foreign components were used. So, an Israeli-made Smart Shooter (SMASH) smart shooting system was installed on an existing air platform with sufficient characteristics.

The publication recalls the main features of the Smart Shooter complex, such as a perfect system of sensors and a computing unit with artificial intelligence. It is also reported that "Smart Shooter" provides high accuracy of fire, which allows you to deal with different targets, incl. with drones.

It should be noted that the Smart Shooter line from the Israeli company of the same name includes several different products. Apparently, in the last the news we are talking about the SMASH Dragon shooting complex, designed for installation on multicopters of sufficient carrying capacity. You also need to pay attention to the fact that the prototypes of the Dragon system are not similar to the Ukrainian UAV, the flights of which were shown a few days ago. Two complexes are related only by the main idea, while its execution is seriously different.

Smart Interceptor


In the context of air defense organization, it is the Israeli-designed SMASH Dragon product that is of the greatest interest. It is reported that such systems have already reached Ukraine, but there is no official confirmation of this yet. Moreover, Israel has repeatedly stated that it will not transfer any weapons to the Kyiv regime. What information is true is not yet clear.

The SMASH Dragon system is a special combat module for installation on air platforms. Depending on the weapon and ammunition used, the module has a mass of at least 7 kg, which determines the range of potential carriers. The dimensions of the product generally correspond to the limitations of such UAVs.

"Dragon" is suspended under the body of the drone using a mounting bracket. From below, a U-shaped movable base is attached to the latter, on which a swinging part with mounts for weapons and a “smart sight” is suspended. There are pickup drives in two planes. Horizontal aiming is circular, vertical - from + 65 ° to + 15 °.


Ukrainian interceptor in flight

As part of the Dragon system, the SMASH FCU "smart sight" is used, made on the basis of the product of the same name for infantry weapons. The compact housing contains day and night cameras, a range finder, a ballistic computer, drive controls and a data exchange system with the operator. The sight is rigidly blocked with the weapon and moves with it.

SMASH FCU is designed to monitor the situation day and night, search for targets and control weapons. The sight independently calculates the data for firing and controls the aiming drives. There are functions of two-plane stabilization and tracking of the selected target. The module maintains constant communication with the operator and executes his commands.

The combat module can be equipped with different types of weapons. Compatibility with 5,56- and 7,62-mm rifles or machine guns, as well as 40-mm grenade launchers is declared. The promotional materials featured a lightweight 5,56mm AR-15 type rifle. The effective range of firing at stationary or moving ground targets is 300 m. It is also possible to fire at small UAVs from distances up to 200 m.

Practical perspectives


The idea of ​​mounting small arms or other weapons on UAVs to intercept other UAVs is neither new nor original. A number of similar projects are known, and some of them showed acceptable results. The Israeli project SMASH Dragon continues the development of this concept and proposes the use of a "smart sight", which should increase combat performance.

The SMASH Dragon complex is really capable of solving the assigned tasks. With the help of an unmanned platform, he can quickly get to the desired area, conduct patrols and perform reconnaissance from the air. The SMASH FCU sight, in turn, allows you to shoot with high accuracy and hit various targets, depending on the weapon used.


Israeli SMASH Dragon complex with a lightweight AR-15 rifle. Photo Smart Shooter

Such a complex can effectively search for and defeat enemy manpower or unprotected equipment. In addition, the developer talks about the possibility of destroying small UAVs at considerable distances. However, more difficult targets are now mentioned, which may be beyond the strength of the Dragon.

According to the latest news, they will try to use SMASH Dragon to intercept the Geran-2 UAV, and the prospects for such an idea are doubtful. The effective solution of such a problem is hampered by technical and organizational factors, as well as the reaction of the enemy to any attempts to restore air defense even of individual areas.

Obviously, the Dragons will have difficulty detecting a flying combat UAV in a timely manner - if at all they can solve this problem. On-board optics is unlikely to allow observation at long distances and timely detection of the target. Accordingly, drones will have to be supplemented with other means of detection, command posts, etc.

When detecting and taking the "Geranium" for escort, new difficulties should be expected. Even if the interceptor is able to aim the weapon and make an accurate shot, the destruction of the strike UAV is not guaranteed. New shots will be required, the success of which is also in question, although the “smart aim” increases the chance of hitting.

In this context, we should recall the recent episodes of the combat use of the Geran-2 UAV. Ukrainian fighters repeatedly fired at such drones from standard small arms, but the effectiveness of the fire turned out to be extremely low. Even if there were hits, the UAVs continued to fly towards their designated targets. Whether the SMASH FCU will allow you to get different results is a big question.


Drone over Kyiv. Photo AFP

Multicopters in terms of basic flight characteristics are inferior to aircraft-type drones. In particular, it can be assumed that the interceptor will not be able to pursue the Geran-2, and it will not have a chance of long-term shelling of it, which increases the likelihood of defeat.

In addition, helicopter-type platforms have limitations in terms of range and flight duration; similar difficulties with range are possible. Because of this, the creation of a full-fledged air defense of the area will require a lot of equipment and will lead to corresponding costs. In turn, saving on UAVs will make the defense insufficiently effective, and it will miss attack drones. With all this, the massive deployment of equipment and assets will attract attention, and the Russian army will interrupt this process with new strikes.

Systems like the Israeli SMASH Dragon as a whole are of some technical interest and are quite capable of finding their own scope, in which they will show maximum results. But in other areas and circumstances, such a technique is bound to run into objective limitations and fail to meet expectations - and possibly ruin its reputation.

Demilitarization continues


Attack UAVs "Geran-2" attracted attention and significantly influenced the course of the Special Operation. The enemy has learned from his own experience the capabilities of such drones and is now looking for ways to deal with them. Traditional means and air defense systems, weakened by long-term lack of proper maintenance and demilitarizing strikes, have shown themselves extremely poorly, and in this regard, new solutions are being sought.

This time, they offer to fight the Geraniums with the help of specialized interceptor drones with small arms. According to the latest news, Ukrainian formations already have such systems and may soon rise to intercept, but their effectiveness is still in doubt. Whether the Kyiv regime will be able to find a suitable means to deal with our UAVs is unknown. In the meantime, this has not happened, "Gerani" will continue their methodical and effective work.
46 comments
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  1. +8
    27 October 2022 05: 06
    I wonder how the issue of recoil when fired from this soulless machine is resolved? The cult film Wedding in Malinovka ...: and the third one, the bastard, shoots at his own! "
    1. +2
      27 October 2022 11: 12
      While the stabilizer comes to its senses, while SMASH captures, the target will fly away.
    2. +4
      27 October 2022 17: 07
      Quote: Andrey1978
      I wonder how the issue of recoil when fired from this soulless machine is resolved?

      Why solve this issue? This is a ready-made accelerating engine. smile
      1. +1
        27 October 2022 17: 39
        Yeah. If you shoot back. Otherwise it's a brake
      2. +1
        27 October 2022 20: 33
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Why solve this issue? This is a ready-made accelerating engine.

        There was an article somewhere where it was proposed to fly in space like this from one NATO satellite to another, simply shooting at one and flying towards the next one on the return.
  2. +5
    27 October 2022 05: 18
    If we remove "about technology", then here is the concept of a device for leveling the protective properties of those open from above trenches, remote shooting of the DRG and the servants of the towed artillery. The barrel is some four or six barrel under the "small" cartridge, there is no armor on the arms and legs and painful wounds with a bullet stuck in the leg, the doctors themselves will pick it up if there is still a bullet in the wound "a little " will change the trajectory
    1. +3
      27 October 2022 05: 30
      Quote: Guran33 Sergey
      here is the concept

      For these purposes, it is suitable .... But chasing Geranium is unlikely.
    2. +2
      27 October 2022 08: 16
      Still, a grenade launcher or a mine will be more effective. Modern craters raise serious calibers.
      1. 0
        21 January 2023 15: 22
        One mine and that's it, shot back. It’s better to bring a mortar battery, they will have more.
    3. +3
      27 October 2022 11: 19
      Big, conspicuous, noisy. I'm afraid that it can be knocked down with another cheap quadric, it's enough to break one screw.
  3. +2
    27 October 2022 05: 24
    The easiest way to break through the defense with such copters is to change the route and approach the target from different directions, even the current parameters of the Geraniums allow this. In general, racing copters give up to 280 km / h. it means that it is quite possible to provide a combatant with 200.
    1. +2
      27 October 2022 11: 22
      In general, racing copters give up to 280 km / h. it means that it is quite possible to provide a combatant with 200.

      this question always rests on a dilemma: resource or speed or mass.
      You start to increase the combat load - the speed and resource drop.
      You try to increase the speed - the resource drops or you need to reduce the mass.
      You try to increase the resource (range) - you run into an increase in mass or you need to reduce speed.
    2. +3
      27 October 2022 11: 51
      At drone racing competitions, quadrics fly at an average of 100 km / h and the battery is dropped in five minutes. Airplane type is certainly faster.
      1. +2
        27 October 2022 12: 12
        Quote from dunkan
        At drone racing competitions, quadrics fly at an average of 100 km / h and the battery is dropped in five minutes.

        Those that I saw - with intensive maneuvering, I think it is not particularly necessary for interception. But I think that the idea is crude even against Geraniums, and even in bad execution.
    3. +3
      27 October 2022 20: 36
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      In general, racing copters give up to 280 km / h.

      Not very long and easy.
      And here it takes a relatively long time (until you get up - it’s more logical to hang on the way), and with a load.
      And then you have to get in.
  4. +2
    27 October 2022 05: 25
    Now, before our eyes, a new type of drones equipped with small arms and grenade launchers is being formed.
    Our designers should keep their tail with a gun and their nose to the wind and respond in time to the dictates of the times.
    I am already trying to simulate a conditional battle of a unit of such drones against an infantry unit ... what
    The picture is sad for the fighters. crying
    With one Kalash against a flock of drones equipped with machine guns and grenade launchers, the battle will be lost outright ... bad business.
    1. +1
      27 October 2022 06: 21
      Now, before our eyes, a new type of drones equipped with small arms and grenade launchers is being formed.

      Somehow, until now, this obvious idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXba copter-machine gun against infantry did not come to anyone. Either everything is really still in the process, or there is a quick and easy way to protect.
      1. +2
        27 October 2022 07: 03
        Quote: Former soldier
        Somehow, until now, this obvious idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXba copter-machine gun against infantry did not come to anyone.

        If you carry a machine-gun belt with you, then the carrying capacity of the copter should be prohibitive. More realistic may be the concept of a copter-sniper.
        1. +2
          27 October 2022 07: 49
          If you carry a machine-gun belt with you, then the carrying capacity of the copter should be prohibitive. More realistic may be the concept of a copter-sniper.

          Something tells me that with a copter weighing 50-100kg, aimed shooting in bursts of 5.45, 7.62 without stabilization will be impossible. Sniper maybe.
      2. +3
        27 October 2022 07: 18
        Quote: Former soldier
        Somehow, until now, this obvious idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXba copter-machine gun against infantry did not come to anyone.

        Wrong! Similar offers have already appeared! Up to the placement of a 40-mm automatic grenade launcher! We couldn't poke! request
        1. +3
          27 October 2022 07: 43
          Wrong! Similar offers have already appeared! Up to the placement of a 40-mm automatic grenade launcher! We couldn't poke

          So everything is not so simple. In fact, when installing automatic guns from 25-30mm on aircraft of the 30s, there were problems with recoil. But their weight was about a ton.
          1. 0
            27 October 2022 17: 40
            All aircraft with forward-facing guns have certain problems with recoil. Among those who use them, of course. Some have more, some have less. The recoil is added to the thrust of the engines and affects the airframe harmfully, but still tolerably. Mostly. But it still allows you to more or less accurately shoot bursts. But if the recoil vector goes at a large angle in the course, then the first shot will take the barrel away from the course. In the same 30s and 40s, they tried to do a lot of things in this regard with recoilless guns and guns using an inertial mass, but only RSs withstood the test of time. For such sizes / capacities, something will go on the basis of hand-held ATGMs, MANPADS, S-8 blocks, or something free-falling with large continuous area damage (such as small bomb clusters from the Il-2). But if you really want to shoot, then a large-caliber smoothbore shotgun (KS-23?), And not chase after accuracy.
      3. +2
        27 October 2022 09: 32
        Quote: Former soldier
        Somehow, until now, this obvious idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXba copter-machine gun against infantry did not come to anyone.



        There is no sense from them - you will not get anywhere
    2. -1
      27 October 2022 08: 23
      Quote: Lech from Android.

      I am already trying to simulate a conditional battle of a unit of such drones against an infantry unit ...
      They even made a video on the subject.
    3. 0
      27 October 2022 09: 52
      With one Kalash against a flock of drones equipped with machine guns and grenade launchers, the battle will be lost outright ... bad business.

      If a flock of drones is needed for the target, then the protection will not be one AK, but something more significant.
      1. 0
        27 October 2022 20: 39
        Yenisei\Shilka\Tunguska\Shell?
        1. +1
          27 October 2022 21: 14
          Yenisei\Shilka\Tunguska\Shell?

          Well, at least PCS.
    4. 0
      30 October 2022 17: 45
      And why one Kalash? There are 25 of them in a platoon, plus 3 machine guns ...
    5. 0
      21 January 2023 15: 25
      Drone sadness. One barrel, one magazine against a flock (squad) of infantry. The latter also have a PC ...
  5. 0
    27 October 2022 08: 05
    Everything is so, everything is fair. One thing is not clear - how is it with the return? In a artisanal way?
    1. +4
      27 October 2022 10: 09
      Everything is so, everything is fair. One thing is not clear - how is it with the return?

      lol The stabilizer will have to be installed. with all the consequences laughing So slowly the copter will turn into a K-52
  6. +3
    27 October 2022 08: 25
    The interceptor must fly faster than the target. The quadcopter does not roll against Geranium. Most likely, it is supposed to defeat ground targets.
    1. +1
      27 October 2022 08: 36
      Quote: also a doctor
      Most likely, it is supposed to defeat ground targets.

      It was supposed! And then it smelled "fried" ... well, they quickly changed their shoes in a jump!
  7. +1
    27 October 2022 09: 17
    The effective solution of such a problem is hampered by technical and organizational factors, as well as the reaction of the enemy to any attempts to restore air defense even of individual areas.

    At this point, I realized that the author is Ryabov wink
  8. +5
    27 October 2022 09: 27
    Rare bullshit. Defeat by a single shot from a drone is a lucky chance for a ground installation. For a copter dangling as you please - from the category of unscientific fiction. It is generally impossible to shoot bursts from a light drone - recoil.
    In short, from the category of advice to shoot down Geranka from Kalash in the cities. Now passers-by will also be fired from top to bottom
  9. 0
    27 October 2022 09: 36
    About two years ago, they demonstrated a domestic creation, "Krechet", which was even called a drone hunter. Armed with an automatic shotgun. A year ago, field tests were carried out. Seems to be successful. Video on the topic and about it.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. 0
    27 October 2022 10: 36
    AG-2
    The text of your comment is too short and in the opinion of the site administration does not carry useful information.
  12. +2
    27 October 2022 10: 36
    If you are already shooting at drones from a drone, then you need to hang two pieces of American-180. Small caliber, magazine for 275 rounds and 1200 rounds / min.
  13. +2
    27 October 2022 17: 41
    A winged-type UAV with a 20hp engine and a saiga-type gun would fit. Flies up to 30 m and cuts down with shot
    1. +1
      27 October 2022 21: 35
      Then you don’t even need a gun - you can ram it, it will still be destroyed by an explosion.
  14. +1
    27 October 2022 21: 42
    I think this is stupidity. We need ground-based anti-aircraft machine guns of the volcano type with a sight that automatically calculates lead. Or fully automatic - spotted something in the sky in the visible range, aimed and fired. It seems to me that this is no more difficult than a "smart" Israeli sight. About thirty years ago I read a prediction that in the last times there will be no birds left. Now it may not be the last time, but all the birds who are larger than a crow should already start to think.
  15. +2
    28 October 2022 01: 55
    Soon Ukrainian geraniums will fly over us. need to take care of the defense. the best option is a U-2 (Po-2) level aircraft. It would be even better if it could be made unmanned. Communication over its territory will be stable and the fighter can be remotely controlled.
    With a front line of 1000 km, we will need about a hundred of these fighters. Taking into account the possibility of mass raids - two hundred.
    The system will be effective if enemy UAVs are detected 50 km from the target. Radar on a cornfield or a chain of VNOS posts? Better than both. Then the "U-10" with a constantly heated engine, scattered at intervals of 15-2 km, will be able to intercept the target.
    Using modern materials and without a pilot on board, such an airplane will fit into 200-300 kg ... Aviation design bureaus will make it in a week or two, but they will not be able to cope with electronics. For electronics and control, it is necessary to create a new separate design bureau.
  16. 0
    10 November 2022 20: 19
    The main thing is that the Yankees should not start supplying the Khokhols with their Raytheon Coyote loitering ammunition, which they position as flying drone interceptors.
  17. 0
    15 December 2022 14: 46
    The problem is that firing at a stationary target and moving through the airspace are things of a different order. This should be the work of a kit with an airspace detection and control radar. There must be a sufficient number of kits and in general this is different money.
    1. 0
      31 December 2022 21: 18
      Is there a company called Cyber ​​Shot in the USA, with their smart rifle that shoots itself as soon as the cursor hits a pre-marked target? Why not attach it to such UAVs. The operator will need to select a target from the video image, after which the UAV and the sight will perform the task. And in the role of anti-drone, OLS with target capture and tracking, as in short-range air defense and the same Cyber ​​​​Shot system. The technologies already exist that will even allow shooting UAVs. It’s just that the Americans cannot imagine a trench war and that they will have to endure quadrics with VOGs over their heads, so they don’t itch about it.
  18. 0
    27 December 2022 09: 58
    It seems to me that the use of small-caliber unguided rockets with shrapnel and remote detonation with a guidance system equipped with a ballistic ballistic calculator is much more interesting. Such a drum-type system, for example, is used in helicopters, so it just needs to be scaled for UAVs.