Naval Group presented an updated design of the aircraft carrier PA-NG

The original appearance of the aircraft carrier PA-NG, presented in 2020

The French shipbuilding group Naval Group continues work on the promising aircraft carrier PA-NG, which in the future will replace the existing Charles de Gaulle. At the moment, this project is at the preliminary development stage and is gradually developing, acquiring new features. At the recent Euronaval 2022 exhibition in Le Bourget, the developer organization presented a new version of the project, which has some differences from the previously shown one.

Development processes

The development of a new generation aircraft carrier PA-NG (Porte-Avions de Nouvelle Génération) started no later than 2020. By this time, the French Ministry of Defense had formed the requirements for a promising ship and made general plans, and design organizations began to develop the project and its individual components. In December of the same year, the French leadership officially announced the launch of the project, and also showed the appearance of the ship and named some of its characteristics.

In the future, the first version of the PA-NG was demonstrated several times at various exhibitions and other events. At the same time, Naval Group and subcontractors continued to develop the project, and by now it has changed significantly. An updated version of the aircraft carrier in the form of a layout and graphics was presented at the recent Euronaval 2022 exhibition.

As fresh materials show, over the past two years the project has undergone some changes. The general architecture and part of the calculated performance characteristics have not changed much. At the same time, individual structures and units were rebuilt, the displacement increased, the proposed composition of the equipment was changed, etc.

The developer organization cannot yet say that the current version of the PA-NG project will be final. In the course of further development and improvement, the design of the aircraft carrier and the composition of the equipment may change again. At the same time, it is obvious that some of the units and structures will remain the same and will correspond to almost the very first version of the project.

View of the stern

It is noted that the latest and most promising technologies are used in the development of an aircraft carrier. The project is created with an eye to the distant future, and this approach will allow you to meet changing requirements. In addition, it is planned to lay the foundations for future upgrades.

In the distant future

According to the Naval Group, the PA-NG project is currently at the preliminary development stage. It is going to be completed in the 1st quarter of the next 2023. However, under certain conditions, this stage can be extended until 2024-25. Upon completion of this work, in 2025-26, an order will appear for the creation of a technical project and the subsequent construction of the ship.

The exact date of the laying of the new aircraft carrier has not yet been determined. The construction will be carried out by the Naval Group plant in Saint-Nazaire, which has workshops and dry docks of the required dimensions. The construction will be completed in the mid-thirties, after which the ship will be tested. Adoption into the combat structure of the Navy is scheduled for 2038. At the same time, they will be withdrawn from the composition fleet and write off the aircraft carrier "Charles de Gaulle", which by that time will finally become obsolete morally and physically.

The current strategy for the development of the Navy provides for the construction of only one aircraft carrier of a new type. An increase in the aircraft carrier fleet is not planned, and such a scenario is not even discussed. The only PA-NG will serve for several decades. A replacement for it will begin to develop only in the second half of the century.

Updated look

The PA-NG project proposes the construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier of traditional architecture with an ejection launch and arresting gear. The total length of such a ship will be 310 m, displacement - 82,5 thousand tons. For comparison, the current aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle has a length of 260 m and a displacement of 42,5 thousand tons. By increasing the size and weight of the structure, it is planned to increase the main technical and combat indicators.

Updated PA-NG shown at Euronaval-2022

The aircraft carrier's energy will be built on the basis of two K22 type nuclear reactors from TechnicAtome. Three propellers will be used for propulsion. The maximum speed will reach 30 knots. A large generation reserve will make it possible to widely introduce various electrical and electronic systems. Modern radio-electronic weapons with high performance and electromagnetic catapults will be used.

The ship receives a hull of traditional contours with an inclined aft end. The flight deck is flat, asymmetrical in plan. The superstructure with the necessary control posts is small in size and offset in the stern. It should be noted that during the development of the project, the "island" has undergone significant changes.

The deck provides for two bow launch positions with American-made electromagnetic catapults. On the left, there is a corner deck with a third starting position and an arrester. A catapult can also be installed on the corner deck. There are two aircraft lifts on the starboard side.

Aviation the ship group will include approx. 30 aircraft of different classes and types. In advertising materials on the deck of an aircraft carrier, there are up to 25-26 current Rafale-M fighters and promising FCAS, as well as E-2D AWACS aircraft and various types of helicopters. The introduction of unmanned aircraft has not yet been reported.

PA-NG will receive a developed complex of electronic weapons for monitoring the situation, flight control, interaction with other combat units, etc. In particular, the Thales Sea Fire multifunctional radar will become the main means of illuminating the situation. Its AFARs are placed on different sides of the superstructure and should provide all-round visibility.

Only defensive weapons will be present on board. On the sides of the flight deck, places are provided for mounting artillery systems and short-range missile systems. Impact tasks will be solved only with the help of weapons Air-to-surface.

Change and improvement

In its original and updated form, PA-NG as a whole is a typical modern aircraft carrier, built on the basis of well-mastered and time-tested solutions. At the same time, it is planned to introduce a number of new components and ideas for French shipbuilding that will help improve the tactical, technical and operational characteristics.

Noteworthy is a significant increase in the size and displacement of the ship in comparison with the existing aircraft carrier. PA-NG will be 50m longer and nearly twice as heavy. This will increase the flight deck and expand the internal volumes, although it imposes increased requirements on energy and other systems. To solve these problems, a new nuclear power plant of increased power is being created.

It is curious that, despite the growth in size and volume, the size of the PA-NG aviation group will not differ significantly from the existing Charles de Gaulle. Why the Navy is not going to increase the number of aircraft and helicopters is unknown. Perhaps it is planned to bet not on quantity, but on the potential of technology. So, along with the current Rafals, a promising next-generation FCAS fighter appears in the promotional materials for the project.

The Navy and Naval Group plan to develop the existing project, replacing various components and introducing new technologies as they become available. It can be expected that in the distant future, such an approach will lead to a significant change in the appearance of the ship, and really new components will appear in it.

It should be noted that there are still a few years left before the laying of the new French aircraft carrier. In addition, the project can be adjusted after the start of construction. This means that the developers of PA-NG still have enough time to improve and rework the existing project, and its appearance may again change in one way or another.

Development continues

Thus, the French industry, represented by the shipbuilding Naval Group and a number of other enterprises, continues to develop the promising PA-NG aircraft carrier. To date, the main features of this ship have been determined, and the study of specific details has begun. Processes of this kind continue to this day and lead to various changes.

According to the work schedule, the preliminary design will be completed in just a few months. At the same time, the final appearance of the ship will be almost completely determined, which will then be worked out in detail at the stage of technical design. And after that, it will become clear what the real PA-NG will be like and what opportunities it will receive, at least in the early stages of the service.

Comments

[Maxim G]

The worst thing about this is that they will build and put into operation, with Rafals, AWACS aircraft, new MFIs.

The question of whether we will have a new aircraft carrier can not be asked ...

[AC130 Gunship]

What exactly is bad for you personally? Several thousand people - engineers, workers, etc. will have a guaranteed job for the next 5-7 years. This means that their families will have a normal income. Children will go to universities (paid), they themselves will buy new cars, apartments, go on vacation, go to restaurants with honestly earned money. As a result, both the standard of living of these ordinary people and their families rises, as well as the GDP of the country as a whole. Is it bad?

[Maxim G]

The fact that a NATO member country will have a new aircraft carrier.

[AC130 Gunship]

It's like about an apple: "I won't eat it, I'll bite it"? - Build 10 of the same as the answer. Who interferes?

[Maxim G]

Those. Do you advocate an arms race, militarization, instead of disarmament and detente?

[AC130 Gunship]

I am in favor of the growth of the economy of all countries due to a real increase in the level of production, and, as a result, for the growth of the well-being of the population.
Residents of Severodvinsk, employed at the shipyard, for example, have orders and guaranteed jobs for the next 15-20 years. Very few other regions of Russia can boast of such a level of production and employment.

[Maxim G]

You seem to understand little about economics.

[km-21]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

I am in favor of the growth of the economy of all countries due to a real increase in the level of production, and, as a result, for the growth of the well-being of the population.
Residents of Severodvinsk, employed at the shipyard, for example, have orders and guaranteed jobs for the next 15-20 years. Very few other regions of Russia can boast of such a level of production and employment.

The growth of the economy of all countries is a fairy tale for idiots. Aircraft carriers are specifically designed to prevent other countries from growing their economies. Therefore, I do not recommend rejoicing at the success of the enemy. Who knows, maybe something heavy and high-precision can fly on the heads of your children from this aircraft carrier. Although, most likely you are a mishandled Cossack.

[Lech from Android.]

How an aircraft carrier will fight off modern means of attack and destruction ... the larger the cabinet, the easier it is to get into it.
I am a big skeptic of the use of aircraft carriers in a war with a developed state ... no AUG can withstand a simultaneous strike by a dozen or hundreds of missiles and drones on it.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Lech from Android.

the bigger the closet

An aircraft carrier is a floating airfield capable of running around the planet, but the fleet serving it is another story ...

[bugagich]

Quote from Uncle Lee

and here is the fleet serving it

Not the correct phrase. It covers the ship group and serves as its eyes, the rest of the ships in the group perform their functions (shock, PLO ..) The fleet works systematically, and not as individual ships. Therefore, it is impossible to say that the fleet serves AB.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: bugagich

The fleet works systematically

That's why it's called AUG

[bugagich]

Quote from Uncle Lee

That's why it's called AUG

we used to have the name KAG

[Revolver]

Quote: Lech from Android.

How an aircraft carrier will fight off modern means of attack and destruction ...

The Nimites don't walk alone. A Ticonderoga-class cruiser, or even a couple, a couple of Arleigh Burke destroyers, and five, or even more, frigates usually line up around it in a rhombus. Well, even from below the submarine and from above, an AWACS aircraft is constantly on duty, and in which case they raise fighters equipped as interceptors. So to whom and with what to reflect even a massive raid from the air, there is.
This French miracle of technology that has not yet taken place will also receive an escort of approximately the same size. And if the paddling pools do not have enough surface forces, they will bow to other gay European NATO countries. If you scrape through all sorts of Germany, Holland, and Spain, it will just be typed.

[yakyu20]

True, there are no frigates in the Nimitzov AUG, because they are not frigates in the US Navy (in fact, their role is combined by Ticonderogi and Arleigh Burke, like URO ships)

[Sergey39]

For this, we have been creating KPUGs since Soviet times, from ships of different fleets. Ah, the Zircon rocket is a good club against the AUG!
A start has been made, the frigate 22350 Gorshkov will lead such a grouping in the Eastern Mediterranean! Americans in the Mediterranean Sea and the Indian Ocean (Western part), drive 2-3 AUGs each!
The frigate Admiral Golovko (passing acceptance tests), will be the regular carrier of Zircons and nuclear submarine Yasen Perm, will be the first carrier among nuclear submarines if the modernized "loaf" is not put into operation earlier.
And if you believe the Severodvinsk shipbuilders, the Nakhimov cruiser will be put out to sea at the end of 2023. Regular carrier of Zircons!
The range of the AUG is 500-600 km, the Zircon is 1000 km, plus the speed is up to Mach 10!

[donavi49]

An air group that will begin to break down modern means of attack. For example, positions of Bastions with the help of Scalps. Or throwing conditional Gorshkov with exocets from the category, we will launch more than his zoom.

The aircraft carrier does not perform solo, even the render in the article shows 2 FREMMs with Asters and 2 Govindas with Miks. So that a certain blow will be beaten off.

[Genry]

Quote: donavi49

So that a certain blow will be beaten off.

And if the "Zircons" are brought up?

[Boa kaa]

Good comment. There is something to talk about.
1. Yes, the air group is the main strike force of an aircraft carrier. But he is under constant surveillance and reconnaissance. Therefore, the rise of aviation will not go unnoticed. There will be opposition. This is first.
Secondly, when countering the AVU, there is the task of destroying it BEFORE THE LIMIT of the rise of aviation. To do this, on the route of its deployment, curtains of submarines / SSGNs are exhibited, MPA / DA duty is organized at airfields with suspended anti-ship missiles and an aeroball. missiles DB. And in the presence of the GZO, there should be no questions at all that the opposing side is preparing to receive "long-awaited" guests.
Therefore, it is not a fact that the AVU will freely reach the line of lifting its aircraft and complete the task.
2. Attack on the positions of the Bastions. Yeah, they stand and wait to be hit. And they are not protected by an air defense system, and they do not have camouflage with electronic warfare. In order to strike, you must first detect, then classify, overcome air defense ... So, not everything is as simple as it seems.
3. Fight with Gorshkov. So our TAVKR also goes on guard. And he also has fighters with RVV DB missiles. Therefore, not everything is as smooth as it seems. In addition, in the old version, he had 192 missiles, not counting the MZA assault rifles.
I believe that after modernization, with four lessons from the sinking of the Moscow RKR, its air defense system will be significantly strengthened.
Best regards,

[solar]

But he is under constant surveillance and reconnaissance.

And how is it conducted in wartime? For this, another aircraft carrier is needed.

To do this, on the route of its deployment, curtains of submarines / SSGNs are exposed,

Would like to know this route.

In order to strike, you must first detect, then classify, overcome air defense ...

This is just in the first place the aircraft carrier itself concerns. The problem with it will be already at the first stage.

3. Fight with Gorshkov. So our TAVKR also goes on guard. And he also has fighters with RVV DB missiles.

Gorshkov is a frigate. TAVKR Gorshkov was sold to India a long time ago and is listed there under the name "Vikramaditya".
And if about Kuznetsov, there are no AWACS aircraft on it (about its repair is a separate song). Compared to the French, it will be like a blind man.

[Boa kaa]

Quote from solar

And how is it conducted in wartime? For this, another aircraft carrier is needed.

Not needed. There is Liana, SNE, ground points of the river, submarines, NK ... All this is called integrated reconnaissance.

Would like to know this route.

There are communication nodes, which include bottlenecks, zones free from mine weapons, out of reach of enemy weapons, approaches to the PB, etc.

Gorshkov is a frigate. And if about Kuznetsov, then there are no AWACS aircraft on it ... Compared to the Frenchman, it will be like a blind man.

After the modernization, Kuznetsov will most likely carry UAVs, incl. and AWACS and RTR.
To GORSHKOV's account. A colleague spoke about the "conditional Gorshkov", and so did I.

[solar]

Not needed. There is Liana, SNE, ground points of the river, submarines, NK ... All this is called integrated reconnaissance.

NK are suicide bombers in the AUG coverage area, you can’t set up submarines in all directions, and they won’t be able to determine if an aircraft carrier is coming or some boat or minesweeper Nixie is pulling, ground stations of the river are 40 km from the coast, if visually, 50-6 - if the radar, again, you need to find out at the beginning, is it a real ship or traps - imitations are pulled, and there will be no aircraft carrier near the coast. The same applies to ZARLS.
Radio reconnaissance satellites are also not a panacea - they are systematically over the area, they are deceived quite simply - it is customary for enemies to put the same type of radio equipment on different types of ships.
Without aviation additional reconnaissance, you can’t hunt for an aircraft carrier. Moreover, the AUG is able to reduce the distance in 10 hours. That is, in the evening it is still nowhere to be seen - in the morning planes are already flying from it to you. He chooses the time and place.

After the modernization, Kuznetsov will most likely carry UAVs, incl. and AWACS and RTR.

Do AWACS UAVs exist?

[Sergey39]

He is talking about the frigate 22350 Gorshkov, the first Zircon carrier to go to the BS! He will lead a grouping in the Eastern Mediterranean!

[donavi49]

1) What are we observing? An aircraft carrier is a means of initiative. He chooses the path, place and force of impact. To mark take-offs, you need to have strategic UAVs nearby, and in such a way that they are not shot down. Or accompany the AUG from the sea, but again, if this is a war, then other people's escorts will be asked to leave under the threat of an express to the bottom.

Well, the French also have an underwater component. Moreover, the French submarine component in the export version solved 636 projects in absolutely all markets. It is a fact.

As for the air component, this is how Rafali will meet her with their Meteors. The French will have their own AWACS + Rafali will load the Meteors as much as possible and cut the radius to 750 km + 100 km of the Meteor = how to shoot at ships from 800+ km? This is me, for example, a spherocon conflict in a conditionally neutral zone.

2) Just the positions of the Bastions are known. Conditional additional reconnaissance by satellite and there is confidence that they will not leave in 5-7 hours. Scalps are launched outside the range of even long-range systems.

3) Gorshkov will just walk either solo, or with the BOD, which is another goal, or together with brother Kasatonov. He doesn’t have so many missiles (32 large ones - but about the completed ones, it’s not a fact that they are finished). The bottom line is that AUG has the ability to:
a) Timely detect the attacking KUG at a safe distance.
b) Decide whether to approach or run away +/- in the same move as the attacking KUG.
c) Raise aviation wave after wave, for attacks by the KUG with a mass of anti-ship missiles.

Sooner or later, the KUG will be depleted and will itself begin to run away or be partially knocked out.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: donavi49

1) What are we observing? An aircraft carrier is a means of initiative.

- By "observe" already answered above. There are satellites for optoelectronic reconnaissance at the geostationary station, such as Cosmos 2551-52 ... A working nuclear power plant is seen from space even at the starting depth of SSBNs! Therefore - not a fact!
- This "means of initiative", in order to solve the problem of hitting the BC, must reach the line of reach. They will be waiting there...

and the French have an underwater component.

There is. FOUR (!) multi-purpose submarines. And what you write about, they do for export. The French do not have NAPLs in the combat composition of the fleet. Therefore, the speech about the 636th project is malevolent Jewish scoffing about the failure of our VNEU. And we did not put up project 677 for sale, because and there is no AIP for it yet either.

As for the air component, this is how Rafali will meet her with their Meteors. The French will have their own AWACS ///

So it will be with us, God willing, - WILL ... And the Su-75 with the K-77 and AWACS based on UAVs and a bunch of other things ... Why for the French - "will" - is acceptable for you, but for we are not!

the positions of the Bastions are known. Conditional additional reconnaissance by satellite and there is confidence that they will not leave in 5-7 hours. Scalps are launched outside the range of even long-range systems.

- the positions of only stationary complexes are known. But the mobile ones, but if they are re-equipped with ZIRCONS ...
- fig you will reconnoiter them, because there is a schedule for the flight of foreign spacecraft, and the means of PDITR are in service.
-- SCALP -- subsonic machine. In the SAR, Syrian fighters shot down AXES even from heavy machine guns! (g/l A.V. Gurulev). And the Shells and Torahs will meet them with fanfare!

Gorshkov will just walk either solo, or with a BOD ... or together with his brother Kasatonov.

-- most likely as part of an AVU warrant.
- yes, and the “hundredth” for shooting (?) was still FINISHED, checked in the Baltic and put into service.
There is a failure in the ship composition of the fleet, and to dispute this is to go against the truth. But sprinkle ashes on your head and give up - you will wait for that!

[Sergey39]

Until today, it has been a classic! Until the air defense appears to intercept the Zircons. They have a range, even if it is 1000 km, but also a speed of up to Mach 8-10!
But where will the theater of action! We have always built defense. And of course, the AUG will go to Our shores! And this is not a needle in a haystack!

[Mustached Kok]

Well, firstly, even rocket ships do not go alone. What can we say about the aircraft carrier.
And secondly, why is it "useless" if any aircraft carrier is, first of all, an air wing that is engaged in reconnaissance (it can prevent the approach of enemy ships even before they approached the volley distance), searching for submarines (which means they would destroy or drive away submarines before how they fit at a distance for launching missiles or torpedoes) and air defense / missile defense groups (part of the salvo missiles will be destroyed by interceptors at a distance of 100 km by the aircraft carrier’s aircraft. Accordingly, by the time the salvo arrives at the AUG, they will already be prepared there and will fight off a smaller number of va missiles).

Of course, no one gives a 100% guarantee that everything will be successful.
But to think that an aircraft carrier will do NOTHING for its safety means to maintain a hatred opinion in itself.

[Amateur]

And why do the French need such an aircraft carrier?

[Genry]

Quote: Amateur

And why do the French need such an aircraft carrier?

France is a traditional seller of large naval ships. Drive and will stamp for sale.

But it's also a vision for the future.
The Europeans slowly realize that they are not included in the "golden billion" and they are being robbed and will be. Because-you need to win back their sovereignty.

[Amateur]

France is a traditional seller of large naval ships. Drive and will stamp for sale.

"Announce the entire list, please" of French aircraft carriers sold abroad. Please do not confuse with helicopter carriers built using civilian technologies.

[Genry]

Quote: Amateur

"Announce the entire list, please" of French aircraft carriers sold abroad. Please do not confuse with helicopter carriers,

Are there other builders in the EU...?
Or are you suggesting dreaming about "great Poland"?

Quote: Amateur

not to be confused with helicopter carriers built using civilian technologies.

From what civilians?
Warships are sharpened for the installation of weapons, and civilian ones for cargo.
And where will the Mistrals have cargo ...?

[Osipov9391]

Well, why does France need an ocean fleet?
Then why and England.
These countries have a lot of overseas territories all over the world.
From Guiana in South America to the islands in the Pacific and Indian Ocean.
It is necessary to protect these territories.

[Maxim G]

Tellingly, the French did not go the way of the USSR and Great Britain, abandoning VTOL aircraft in favor of conventional carrier-based aircraft, and, accordingly, normal aircraft carriers with a catapult, which allows AWACS aircraft to take off.

[Osipov9391]

In the UK and France, all nuclear forces are 100% naval component.
Therefore, aircraft carriers are also needed to cover them.
For the British, the SSBN patrol area is usually the North Sea.
There are enough light aircraft carriers for this, there is no significant threat.
For the French, the SSBN patrol area is the Mediterranean Sea. To cover them, we already need classic aircraft carriers, since the SSBN duty areas are huge there.

[Maxim G]

But after all, AWACS cannot be placed there, and VTOL aircraft are a very complex machine, with limited capabilities?

[Osipov9391]

If about modern British aircraft carriers, then there are AWACS helicopters + from the mainland, AWACS will help, of which Britain has 6-7 pieces.

[Maxim G]

Not only, but also about the earlier "Invisibles".

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: Amateur

And why do the French need such an aircraft carrier?

To signal and project power to the natives in the seas and oceans...

[Revolver]

Is there enough money? The winter will be cold, and in order not to freeze the population, it will be necessary to subsidize the purchase of energy that has risen in price at times. And it looks like this winter will not be the last. It will be months, if not years, until the sanctions against Gazprom are lifted, until the blown pipes are repaired. And the sanctions will not be lifted until country 404 either disappears from the map or signs peace, in this case it does not matter on what terms, the very fact of a complete and final settlement of the conflict is important. And the cold, he is not an aunt even in relatively warm France.

[cold wind]

Why do we care so much about other countries? Don't worry, they'll be fine. Although, maybe the majority of the writers here are not from Russia?

France generally does not care about Russian gas, supplies come mainly from Algeria, and nuclear power is the main source there. The price for gas is now in the region of $1100-1200. Over the next year, Europe will be able to completely abandon our gas.

For me, something else is important. To whom will we sell our gas? How are unearned incomes, and therefore taxes, compensated? What will happen to the wells? JV 1 had a capacity of 1,9 trillion cubic meters, for which we paid in hard currency, in the next few years, we will not redirect this volume to anyone.

[Genry]

Quote from cold wind

Over the next year, Europe will be able to completely abandon our gas.

Listen to Martsinkevich - there is a channel "Geoenergetics" on YouTube.
After the JV, no one will build gas pipelines in the EU.
We need LNG plants and tankers, which do not exist.
In addition, we need new deposits with sufficient debit and reserves - which are also not nearby and the existing ones are already being depleted.

And Russia is shifting its volumes to the east, plus adding its northern LNG plants (cold gives a price advantage) and started building floating plants at the new SSK Zvezda shipyard near Bolshoi Kamen.

[Genry]

Sorry!
Not Big K ... but Belokamenka (near Murmansk)

[Osipov9391]

Tens of thousands of people work in one protection of gas pipelines and compressor stations in the European part of Russia through which gas was exported.
Only in protection!
And so hundreds of thousands or even a couple of millions across the country are connected with this. Maintenance, repairs and more.
This is something that was focused on the EU.
What to do with this economy now? Demolish or conserve? These volumes of gas have nowhere to go.
And about the export to India and China of gas produced, for example, in Ukhta, only tell grandmothers in the market.
This is a whole fleet of gas tankers and a whole network of LNG plants that no one will build under the sanctions.

[Repellent]

Quote: Osipov9391

What to do with this economy now? Demolish or conserve? These volumes of gas have nowhere to go

Umm .. you are better at airplanes. Into the painted ones that have fallen.

Do not be distructed

[t-12]

To whom will we sell our gas?

Why sell gas? Why not use this gas properly here? At least produce nitrogen fertilizers. And already sell them.

[Alexander Emrys]

Quote: Nagan

Is there enough money? The winter will be cold, and in order not to freeze the population, it will be necessary to subsidize the purchase of energy that has risen in price at times. And it looks like this winter will not be the last. It will be months, if not years, until the sanctions against Gazprom are lifted, until the blown pipes are repaired. And the sanctions will not be lifted until country 404 either disappears from the map or signs peace, in this case it does not matter on what terms, the very fact of a complete and final settlement of the conflict is important. And the cold, he is not an aunt even in relatively warm France.

they need three years to completely abandon Russian gas. then, among other things, part of the Asian market will go to the Russian Federation, China has slowed down the pace of economic growth, and will not gobble up a lot of additional gas, so non-Russian gas for Europe will inevitably become cheaper.

[Engineer]

The total length of such a ship will be 310 m, displacement - 82,5 thousand tons. For comparison, the current aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle has a length of 260 m and a displacement of 42,5 thousand tons.

The ship's aviation group will include OK. 30 aircraft different classes and types.

It's kind of crazy. I did not expect this from the French. Or the very concept of an aircraft carrier is already so exhausted.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

This is some kind of madness

This is not madness, but the qualification of the author of this idea (I don’t know from whom Ryabov took this)
Usually, when talking about the PANG air group, they mention 36 Rafales or advanced fighters, 2 AWACS aircraft and 5 helicopters, that is, 43 cars. According to other sources, there are 46 of them. But the whole point is that Dassault Aviation is promoting a new concept of military operations, where manned aircraft and UAVs will work in conjunction. Thus, it is most likely that we are talking about an air group of 43-46 manned aircraft and a certain number of UAVs

[Engineer]

Still not enough.
Shock Air Regiment.
Checked info
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/euronaval-2022/2022/10/euronaval-2022-latest-pang-aircraft-carrier-design-breaks-cover/

Airwing: ~30 New Generation Fighter (NGF) and Rafale M

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/10/france-reveals-first-look-at-new-nuclear-powered-aircraft-carrier/

PANG will carry about 32 new generation fighters,

Well, and a certain number of other devices - up to 3 Hokaev, etc.
Ryabov is generally right. The ridiculously low number of drummers is obvious.
Regarding the qualifications of the author of the idea, here it is rather the qualifications of domestic aircraft carrier lovers Apparently the designers know something inaccessible to them.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

Ryabov is generally right

That is, I'm talking about an air group of 40+ aircraft, you give links where 30-32 fighters alone are indicated, but Ryabov is right, who reported about 30 aircraft of all types
And now we read your own link

PANG will carry about 32 new generation fighters, up to three E-2D Advanced Hawkeyes (France ordered three in the last days of 2021, for delivery in 2028), and a number of unmanned aircraft.

32 fighters + up to 3 Hokays + an unnamed number of drones. Nothing is said about helicopters, but obviously it will not do without them.

Quote: Engineer

here, rather, the qualifications of domestic aircraft carrier lovers

It’s more like an inability to master a simple British text ..

[Engineer]

Do you have something with arithmetic

Thus, it is most likely that we are talking about an air group of 43-46 manned aircraft

doesn't pan out at all. Even with helicopters
This is despite the fact that the meaning of the post was in the initial weakness of the strike air wing.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

Do you have something with arithmetic

I'm good with arithmetic. You have more than 30 fighters equal to about 30 of all aircraft.

Quote: Engineer

doesn't pan out at all.

From your links - yes, but here is Pascal Colombier in Los magazine! (Issue No. 40, September - October 2021) indicated exactly 46 aircraft, including 38 Rafal-M.

Quote: Engineer

This despite the fact that the meaning of the post was in the initial weakness of the strike air wing

32 fighters + drones - this is completely normal for an AB of this size. Ulyanovsk, similar in size, was calculated on 36 Su-33s, and their new fighter is similar in size - there were references to a mass of 30-32 tons

[Engineer]

From the link I provided, an air group of up to 35 aircraft + drones. Helicopters are not mentioned at all. It does not follow from anywhere that they can simply be taken and added without reducing the other categories accordingly.
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/10/france-reveals-first-look-at-new-nuclear-powered-aircraft-carrier/

I tried to take the most recent data. As the concept is developed, planned. characteristics tend to fade. Designers in all fields know this.
The official concept for Euronaval is somehow more serious than the opinion of a year-old columnist
PS on the concept on the deck there is only one place for a helicopter.

In the bottom line, 30-32 drummers look very pale for 80 thousand tons of displacement.
Of course, all sorts of integrated control schemes, advanced infrastructure for the most modern aircraft, high comfort for 2000 crew members all eat up size, but here again it is appropriate to raise the question of whether the concept of an aircraft carrier is so productive in modern conditions.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

From the link I provided, an air group of up to 35 aircraft + drones. Helicopters are not mentioned at all. It does not follow from anywhere that they can simply be taken and added without reducing the other categories accordingly.

The link you provided "does not swing" at the indication of a regular air group. It says "PANG will carry ..." and then an indication of fighter drones and AWACS. Such a phrase can be interpreted in two ways - either this is a listing of the entire possible air group, or not the whole, but only in part of the mentioned aircraft classes. Taking into account the fact that earlier other sources gave a large number of air groups, the conclusion is quite obvious.

Quote: Engineer

I tried to take the most recent data. As the concept is developed, planned. characteristics tend to fade

Not properly. A ship is created for an air group of a given size, and not vice versa.

Quote: Engineer

The official concept for Euronaval is somehow more serious than the opinion of a year-old columnist

They don't contradict each other.

Quote: Engineer

In the dry residue, 30-32 drummers look very pale for 80 thousand tons

They look absolutely normal, taking into account the UAV. An example about Ulyanovsk was given above. For a long time, the Americans on Nimits based 24 Tomcats and Intruders as standard, despite the fact that intruders are lighter than Tomcats, and here 32 fighters are almost with Tomcat weight

[Engineer]

Taking into account the fact that earlier other sources gave a large number of air groups, the conclusion is quite obvious.

The air group option is presented here
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/euronaval-2022/2022/10/euronaval-2022-latest-pang-aircraft-carrier-design-breaks-cover/
30 devices on the upper deck. It beats quite well from 35 on the link - the rest are apparently spare in the hangar. At the same time, there is simply no space left on the UAV.

Not properly. A ship is created for an air group of a given size, and not vice versa.

No one knows what the given number of the air group was.
No one knows how this figure changed during the design.
I can only assume that everything was done with an eye on de Gaulle and his 30 Rafles in 3 squadrons. In fact, it turns out to be a repetition of de Gaulle in terms of the number of aircraft, just with noticeably better operating conditions from a large deck.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

30 devices on the upper deck.

And taking into account the fact that the capacity of the hangar is usually more than a third, and sometimes more than half of the regular air group, we have 45-60 aircraft. Q.E.D.

Quote: Engineer

I can only assume that everything was done with an eye on de Gaulle and his 30 Rafles in 3 squadrons.

Which he could never effectively exploit

[Engineer]

And taking into account the fact that the capacity of the hangar is usually more than a third, and sometimes more than half of the regular air group, we have 45-60 aircraft. Q.E.D.

These are your speculations. There is no recent data that NGAD carries 40 + manned aircraft.

Which he could never effectively exploit

So that's why they made it twice as large in terms of displacement in order to fully exploit it. But the ratio of size - air group is completely indecent. Just like its American cousins.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

These are your speculations

What a charm :))) That is, to assume the capacity of the hangar at the level of other ABs is speculation, but to declare for no reason that the hangar will accommodate only 5 aircraft is normal. Nothing that does not exist and has never existed in the world AB whose hangar holds one sixth of what is on the deck?

Quote: Engineer

There is no recent data that NGAD carries 40 + manned aircraft.

Stale is 21 years old, and your fresh data is tritely incomplete.
You want to interpret the mentioned 35+ aircraft as the ultimate PANG air group - use it for you. Why this is not true - I explained to you, if you don't like it - it's up to you.

Quote: Engineer

But the size ratio - the air group is completely indecent

And I explained why you are mistaken, but it is important for you to be horrified by the small aircraft capacity, and not to understand the issue

[Engineer]

Nobody stuffs both the hangar and the flight deck.
Nimitz can carry approximately 50 vehicles in the hangar and 60 on deck. At the same time, the standard air group for today is 64 aircraft. Just on the flight deck and a little more.
This is the current approach.
No one claims that 35 manned vehicles is the maximum. But this is exactly the number that appears in the sources. Perhaps it is considered optimal, perhaps something else. But it's just a fact. That's how it's written. The rest is your fantasy.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

Nobody stuffs both the hangar and the flight deck.

Actually, that's what everyone does.

Quote: Engineer

Nimitz can carry approximately 50 vehicles in the hangar and 60 on deck.

And only 110? :)))) Yes, maybe. Only you forgot to indicate which aircraft. If you count something like Skyhawks. But if we take later loading options from A-6, F / a-18 and F-14, then it’s already 80-88, no more. That is, more will fit on AB, but - in overload, the flight deck will be blocked and Nimitz will not be able to fully use such an air group
But realistic boot options are shown in this article
https://topwar.ru/31458-nekotorye-osobennosti-ispolzovaniya-palubnoy-aviacii-superavianoscev-tipa-nimitz-ch1.html
the diagrams are taken from the American work on ensuring fire safety at AB.

Quote: Engineer

At the same time, the standard air group for today is 64 aircraft.

Actually, 66, while the possibility of strengthening the ILC squadron is provided - that is, up to 78 units.

Quote: Engineer

just to the flight deck and a little more.

You, sorry, do not understand what you are writing about. The main place of "residence" of the aircraft on AB is the hangar. It is there that he undergoes pre- and post-flight maintenance and maintenance. Would you even think why Nimitz, with an air group of up to 88 helicopters, has an air wing of up to 2500 people who are not part of the crew? But because these are all sorts of techniques and other composition, which basically just works hard in the hangar. But the hangar is limited by the size of the hull, you can’t completely shove the air group there, so you have to rotate them from the flight deck to the hangar and back.
Therefore, not a single admiral and not a single designer will NEVER make a hangar invented by you for 5 aircraft. This is an absurdity that simply will not allow the air group on deck to be served and which will drastically limit the number of sorties from the ship.

Quote: Engineer

No one claims that 35 manned vehicles is the maximum. But this is exactly the number that appears in the sources.

Not in "sources" but in "source".

Quote: Engineer

But it's just a fact. That's how it's written. The rest is your fantasy.

The rest is other sources that are objectionable to you. So you declared them a fantasy

[Engineer]

Therefore, not a single admiral and not a single designer will NEVER make a hangar invented by you for 5 aircraft.

You have some kind of cognitive failure.
Than writing sheets, isn't it better to think about what they write to you. I did not invent any hangar for 5 aircraft. I wrote that with the version of the air group proposed by the link, 30 aircraft are on the upper deck, the rest should be. in the hangar. This is in no way equal to the hangar capacity of 5 aircraft. This suggests that for the duration of flight operations there is an option to place 30 aircraft on the deck, and judging by the photo, this is close to the maximum. And the rest are stuck in the hangar. That's all

Next comes the generation of truisms mixed with twists.

The number 50 for the hangar was taken from here Book 2010. what other skyhawks?
https://ospreypublishing.com/nimitz-class-aircraft-carriers?___store=osprey_rst

Nimitz can't carry the entire air group in the hangar. Wow, what news, but someone here argued with this?

You can look at the problem from the other side. Let's check purely on drummers.
With the number 30-32 of the drummer, I hope no one will argue?
There are 27 drummers in the pictures on the deck. Only 3-5 drummers remain in the hangar. The concept is quite obvious. The air group is clearly adjusted to the capacity of the flight deck (and vice versa) with a small reserve in the hangar. How much can be stored in the hangar in this case does not matter. Because for flight operations, the maximum (apparently a reasonable maximum, and not according to the principle of herring in a barrel) is shown in the photo on the flight and it is close to the total declared figure of 30-32 cars.

The rest is other sources that are objectionable to you.

I indicated claims - these are sources before the official presentation of the concept. Therefore, they are less relevant.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

You have some kind of cognitive failure.

Quote: Engineer

Than writing sheets, isn't it better to think about what they write to you.

They write nonsense to me. And I'm trying to explain your misconceptions. And since they are legion, the sheets are obtained

Quote: Engineer

The number 50 for the hangar was taken from here Book 2010. what other skyhawks?
https://ospreypublishing.com/nimitz-class-aircraft-carriers?___store=osprey_rst

This is not a book, but a Murzilka magazine. The author is a lawyer who, in his free time from his main job, amuses himself with articles on military topics. In fact, you referred to an author like me, Roman Skomorokhov, etc.
And this is authority for you. And the REAL composition of the air groups, which is given to you from the specialized literature, you prefer to ignore the real arrangement of aircraft in the hangar from an English-language specialized source. And you have the audacity to write something to me about cognitive dissonance :)

Quote: Engineer

Next comes the generation of truisms mixed with twists.

There is no shame in not knowing something. It is a shame to pose as an expert without understanding the issue.

Quote: Engineer

There are 27 drummers in the pictures on the deck. Only 3-5 drummers remain in the hangar. The concept is quite obvious. The air group is clearly adjusted to the capacity of the flight deck (and vice versa) with a small reserve in the hangar. How much can be stored in the hangar in this case does not matter.

I reveal military secrets. The number of air group that an aircraft carrier can serve is calculated as the number of aircraft in a fully filled hangar + the maximum number of aircraft on the flight deck, which does not interfere with takeoff and landing operations. For example, in one of the diagrams I have given, the number of aircraft on the deck and in the hangar is 75 aircraft, while there is free space on the flight deck, but it is very small.
So, if you, instead of teaching me life, would teach at least a little materiel, then you would realize that the 27 drums on deck + 5 in the hangar recommended by you are an INCOMPLETE air group. That is, perhaps, a peacetime Asian group (they may differ from the military staff, the British are an example for you), but in any case, you yourself would realize that the indicated air group of 35+ aircraft is far from the limit for PANG, and it clearly can serve more.
But you, as I have already said, do not want to figure out the issue, you need to raise your eyes to grief for the scantiness of the French air group.

Quote: Engineer

I indicated claims - these are sources before the official presentation of the concept.

What you are referring to is a brief note from a reporter from an exhibition that does not contain and does not claim to contain exhaustive data. There is not a word about the air group. There is not a word about helicopters (but the model does have one). There are only words about aircraft that you interpreted in a way convenient for you

[Engineer]

There is no information for the French about the "peace" and "war" air groups.
These are your fantasies multiplied by graphomania and the inability to stop. There is nothing to discuss here.

I reveal military secrets.

And again the flow of graphomania. The size of the air group is determined by the number of actually based aircraft. The rest is from the evil one. In the absence of real ones for the Frenchman, we take the officially declared ones.
I can only repeat that no one else clogs both the hangar and the flight deck together. There could be a thousand reasons for this. It does not matter. An important fact. And this is an obvious problem of modern aircraft carriers. The Nimits carry a real air group equal to the capacity of the flight deck, plus a relatively small number. NGAD demonstrates a similar approach based on the information provided. Everything is obscenely simple

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

There is no information for the French about the "peace" and "war" air groups.

There is no information at all about the air group. Your source does not contain the words "regular" and "air group" There is an indication of the number of individual types of aircraft without any reference to the states, to peacetime / wartime, etc.

Quote: Engineer

I can only repeat that no one else clogs both the hangar and the flight deck together

Only in your imagination. But in practice, like a war, they score like that.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Engineer

At the same time, there is simply no space left on the UAV.

Colleague, the global trend in the development of the aviation component is now unthinkable without UAVs at all! The French claim to be "futurists", judging by the concepts of NK and PLA of the future, which they periodically present at technology exhibitions. Therefore, a new AVM without an UAV is nonsense! They will definitely be there in large numbers. Therefore, 35-40 manned vehicles and each with a pair of UAVs is a completely normal approach to the aviation armament of the AVM of the future. About this Andrew and tries to tell you.
Something like this, however.

[Engineer]

Alas, UAVs are only mentioned without any details. On the proposed option for accommodating the air group, they simply do not exist.

Why fantasize about considerable numbers if there are no details?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Engineer

Why fantasize about considerable numbers if there are no details?

"Let's wait - we'll see!" (c)
Let's wait a bit. Time will tell who is right.

[Engineer]

I wish us all to live until 2038 and make sure that how much.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Engineer

It's kind of crazy. I did not expect this from the French. Or the very concept of an aircraft carrier is already so exhausted.

The question is - is this an air group in peacetime or wartime? You remember the strait neighbors of the Franks, who indicated two numbers of the air group for "Liz". Or the same Yankees, whose Nimitzes switched to four-squadron CAWs (48 MFIs) at the end of the Cold War, although they used to carry up to 60 drummers, and even in the company of the Vikings.

[Engineer]

And when was the last time the Nimitz carried a "wartime" group?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

in Yugoslavia. During a desert storm

[Engineer]

20 years (or 30, I'm not sure that there was a wartime air group on Roosevelt in Yugoslavia, was it like his usual CVW-8) ago?
Maybe you need to get used to the new reality?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Engineer

, I'm not sure that there was a wartime air group on Roosevelt in Yugoslavia

Correctly not sure, she was EMNIP more.
And about the new reality .. You see, the ONLY reality is that during large-scale hostilities, ABs carry a full air group. And the fact that the US Navy has not waged large-scale military operations since Yugoslavia / Iraq creates a new reality exclusively in your, to put it mildly, hyperactive imagination.

[Puz Big]

They will hold down their electric remote control and this aircraft carrier will turn into a barge loaded with aircraft.

[Puz Big]

Americans, of course. How can I fix this comment?

[aars]

If the Americans clamp down, they will do their own.
It's basically a linear motor.

[TermNachTer]

With such dimensions, having an air group of 30 aircraft is not even funny. The fact that Charles de Choll will last until 2038 raises strong doubts, unless the construction time for the new Av is shifted to the right, which usually happens almost always, and especially in France. About the state of the French economy and finances, as about the dead, or good or nothing. Because - nothing.

[air wolf]

What a good target for a dagger, a big one, and other promising missiles ...

[the same doctor]

Pretty simple calculations show that to launch from an aircraft carrier without a catapult (an ordinary aircraft), an aircraft of a conventional design requires engine thrust 2 to 4 times its own weight. So maybe to hell with them all: variable wing geometry, extra plane area, large keel and stabilizer, landing gear ... and with the saved weight a couple more engines and the plane takes off vertically? Previously, there were problems with control during takeoff and landing, but now Musk has shown that a rocket can land on one electronics, without a person. The plane, too, especially when landing it is twice as light.
.
Of course, aircraft design bureaus will not pull this topic. They can only engines and wings, everything is played in super-maneuverability, but here electronics are needed. A new electronic design bureau should be created, which will develop control algorithms and electronics. And already under the possibility of electronics to make an airplane, and under an airplane - an aircraft carrier.

[cold wind]

I wonder what century you are stuck in?

[AC130 Gunship]

Yeah, when it comes to building an aircraft carrier, then here "to master the budget in full (I'm not talking about France) and not show anything as a result. After 2 years, you need to show at least a hull in iron, and after another 3 - to launch.Not an interesting project