Fighter aviation of Ukraine

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Fighter aviation of Ukraine

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine got a very powerful grouping of air defense forces, the like of which was not in any of the union republics. Only Russia possessed a large arsenal of ground-based anti-aircraft weapons and fighters. In addition to numerous air defense systems and radars, Ukraine received the property of three air armies (1 combat aircraft).

As of the beginning of 1992, the Ukrainian sky was protected by two corps (49th and 60th) of the 8th separate air defense army. In addition, the 28th Air Defense Corps of the 2nd Separate Air Defense Army was located on the territory of Ukraine. The 8th Air Defense Army included: 10 fighter and 1 mixed air regiment, 7 anti-aircraft missile brigades and regiments, 3 radio engineering brigades and a regiment. The fighter aviation regiments were armed with interceptors: Su-15TM, ​​MiG-25PD/PDS, MiG-23ML/MLD. By the time the Belovezhskaya Accords were signed, several air regiments based at Ukrainian airfields were in the process of being re-equipped with new equipment. Su-27 fighters managed to receive the 136th Guards IAP and the 62nd IAP.



Ukrainian fighter aviation from 1992 to 2014


In total, after the division of Soviet property, Ukraine received more than 2 aircraft for various purposes. Of the fighters, 800 Su-40s and 27 MiG-220s were the most valuable. In 29, Ukraine had the fourth largest fleet of combat aircraft in the world, second only to the United States, Russia and China in this indicator. However, much of the Soviet aviation legacy for independent Ukraine turned out to be redundant. First of all, fighters built between 1992 and 1971 were decommissioned. By 1985, all interceptors: MiG-1997PD / PDS, MiG-25ML / MLD and Su-23TM were written off or transferred to storage.


Satellite image of Google Earth: aircraft stored on the territory of the Zaporozhye Aircraft Repair Plant "MiGremont", the image was taken in October 2011

A significant part of the fresh and modern MiG-29s at that time was put up for sale. Since gaining independence, Ukraine has exported about 240 military aircraft and helicopters. Of these, more than 95% are vehicles inherited during the division of the Soviet Air Force and Air Defense. Of the new aircraft for export, only transport An-32 and An-74 were built.

After 20 years of “independence”, the number of combat aircraft capable of effectively intercepting air targets and performing air superiority missions has decreased many times over. So, in 2012, 16 Su-27s and 20 MiG-29s were in flight condition, although the air force formally included 36 Su-27s and 70 MiG-29s. According to the annual report Flightglobal Insight's World Air Forces 2015, the number of aircraft and helicopters of the Ukrainian Air Force in flight condition did not exceed 250 units. In total, for the period from 1992 to 2014, 3 Su-27s and 4 MiG-29s were lost in flight accidents.

Before relations with Russia were hopelessly damaged, there was a theoretical possibility of acquiring modern combat aircraft or a radical modernization of those available with Russian technical support. But until 2014, the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine believed that Ukraine not only had a sufficient number of fighters, but also had some surpluses.

Illusions dissipated after the start of the ATO in the east of the country. During the sorties, it turned out that the poor technical condition aviation equipment, as well as poor training of the flight and technical personnel, have an extremely negative impact on the ability of combat aviation to perform assigned tasks. Since there was no enemy in the air over the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, the Ukrainian MiG-29s were involved in strikes on the ground. At the same time, at least two MiG-29s were lost. One Su-27 was damaged, but was able to return to its airfield.

As of 2014, Ukraine had many problems in terms of maintaining its Air Force in a combat-ready state, and after the destabilization of the situation in the country, this became even more difficult. Due to the lack of resources (kerosene, spare parts and qualified specialists), most of the Ukrainian fighter aviation was chained to the ground. In March 2014, the Ukrainian Air Force lost infrastructure facilities on the territory of the Crimean peninsula, as well as part of the aircraft and military equipment. So, seven MiG-29s and two MiG-29UBs were irretrievably lost at the Belbek airfield.

However, after 2018, thanks to serious financial injections and a number of personnel decisions, the combat capability of Ukrainian aviation units began to improve. This was largely possible due to the repair base preserved in Ukraine, which made it possible to maintain the existing MiG-29 and Su-27 in flight condition.

Modernization and overhaul of Ukrainian MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters


In addition to the aircraft factories in Kyiv and Kharkov, Ukraine inherited two aircraft repair enterprises from the USSR: the MiGremont Zaporozhye Aircraft Repair Plant and the Lvov State Aircraft Repair Plant.


Satellite image of Google Earth: aircraft equipment on the territory of the Lviv Aircraft Repair Plant, the image was taken in March 2020

The Ukrainian aircraft repair industry managed to survive thanks to the fulfillment of export orders. Thus, at the end of 2005, Ukraine signed a contract with Azerbaijan for the supply of 12 MiG-29s and 2 MiG-29UBs from the Air Force. At the same time, according to the terms of the deal, the aircraft had to undergo refurbishment and modernization. Thus, Ukrainian specialists got the opportunity to test "in practice" the theoretical developments under the program of "small modernization" of MiGs. Work on the modernization of the MiG-29 (modification 9.13) began at the Lvov Aircraft Repair Plant in 2007.


Fighter MiG-29, which is in storage, on the territory of the Lviv Aircraft Repair Plant

During the implementation of this export contract, the necessary experience and financial resources were obtained, used to modernize Ukrainian MiG-29s. In addition to the Lviv Aircraft Repair Plant, the project was attended by the Orizon-Navigation enterprises and Fazotron-Ukraine CJSC, involved in the modernization of the radar.

Thanks to the upgrade of the element base and the introduction of new nodes, the detection and tracking range was increased by about 20%, and operational reliability was improved. In addition to work on extending the resource, new means of navigation and communication were installed that meet ICAO requirements. It is stated that the combat effectiveness during the interception has increased due to the use of improved medium-range air-to-air missiles R-27ER1 and R-27ET1 manufactured by the state company Artem. It was also planned to replace the Soviet R-73 melee missiles with Ukrainian-made products, but this was not achieved. The upgraded MiG-29MU1 received a new "pixel" coloring.


The Ukrainian Air Force received three MiG-29MU1 fighters in 2011. Initially, these aircraft were sent for military testing to the 40th tactical aviation brigade in Vasilkov. As of the beginning of August 2014, the Ukrainian Air Force had four MiG-29MU1s.


After 2016, modernization work continued, according to reference data, the Lviv Aircraft Repair Plant brought six more fighters to the level of the MiG-29MU1. At least two modernized fighters were damaged in flight accidents.

If an export contract helped Ukraine with the modernization of the MiG-29, then with heavy Su-27S fighters, Su-27P interceptors (modification for air defense forces) and combat training Su-27UB, they had to rely on their own resources. The enterprise responsible for the overhaul and modernization of the Su-27 was the Zaporozhye Aircraft Repair Plant MiGremont. In addition to the MiGremont plant, the Orizon-Navigation State Enterprise, the Novator State Enterprise, and the NTC Elektronpribor JSC took part in the modernization program.


Su-27UBM1

Although there were a number of specialized enterprises in Ukraine, the improvement of the main systems was reduced to the partial replacement of electronic components. In particular, in the N001 pulse-Doppler radar, the receiving path unit, the master oscillator unit and the digital processing unit were replaced, which made it possible to increase the selection of signals received by the radar and increase the detection range of air targets. Navigation capabilities have been improved through the use of a satellite positioning system.

To comply with ICAO standards, a new on-board navigation and blind landing equipment was installed. The Soviet-made on-board transponder was replaced with a device of a similar purpose developed by the State Enterprise "Novator". Also, new means of registration and communication appeared on board.

From all of the above, it can be seen that the level of modernization of the Su-27 in Ukraine relative to the original machines was very modest. In fact, the combat capabilities of the Ukrainian Su-27s did not change for the better and were significantly inferior to the modernized Russian Su-27SM fighter.


Su-27S1M

The modernization of the Su-27 dragged on, the first aircraft that underwent a major overhaul and "minor" modernization was handed over to the Ukrainian Air Force in February 2012. In mid-April 2014, the customer received another Su-27.


According to unconfirmed reports, as of 2021, the Ukrainian Air Force received six repaired and partially modernized single and double: Su-27P1M, Su-27S1M and Su-27UBM1.

The state of Ukrainian fighter aviation by February 2022


According to reference data, in mid-February 2022, the Ukrainian Air Force had 7 pairs of Su-27UBs (1–2 modernized Su-27UBM1), 30 Su-27S/P (4–5 Su-27P1M and Su-27S1M), 8 pairs of MiG-29UBs, 8–10 MiG-29MU1s and 25–30 unmodernized single-seat MiG-29s (9.13). Some more Su-27s and MiG-29s were in storage. But these were mostly machines that had run out of resources and had prospects for further use only as a donor of spare parts. According to expert estimates, the share of technically serviceable fighters in the Air Force of Ukraine has never exceeded 70%.

MiG-29 fighters are armed with the 40th tactical aviation brigade (air command "Center"), stationed at the Vasilkov airfield southwest of Kyiv.


Satellite image of Google Earth: MiG-29 fighters and L-39 training aircraft at the Vasilkov airfield

The MiG-29 was until recently flown by pilots of the 114th Tactical Aviation Brigade (Air Command "West") stationed at the Ivano-Frankivsk airfield in the west of the country. However, in 2021, most of the fighters at this airfield were put into storage.


Satellite image of Google Earth: MiG-29 fighters at the Ivano-Frankivsk airfield

The 204th tactical aviation brigade of mixed composition, based at the Lutsk airfield in the Volyn region, which has MiG-29 fighters (some were returned from the Crimean Belbek airfield), L-39 trainers and Su attack aircraft is also subordinate to the West Air Command. -25.

Ukrainian Su-24Ms belonging to the 7th Tactical Aviation Brigade are also based in Lutsk. Moreover, as of the end of 2021, there were much more front-line bombers in Lutsk than fighters.


Satellite image of Google Earth: MiG-29 fighters, L-39 training aircraft and Su-24M front-line bombers at the Lutsk airfield

The air command "Center" has two brigades armed with heavy Su-27 fighters.


Satellite image of Google Earth: Su-27 fighters at the Ozernoe airfield

The 39th separate tactical aviation brigade is stationed at the Ozernoye airfield in the Zhytomyr region. However, this unit was formally listed as a brigade, but in fact it was an air group. It consisted of no more than five fighters capable of taking to the air.

The main part of the Ukrainian Su-27s was concentrated in the 831st tactical aviation brigade, deployed at the Mirgorod airfield in the Poltava region.


Satellite image of Google Earth: Su-27 fighters and L-39 training aircraft at the Mirgorod airfield

However, the parking lots of this large air base were also slightly filled, which indicates a clear shortage of combat aircraft in the Ukrainian Air Force.

In-depth training of flight technicians was carried out at the Nikolaev Specialized Combat Training Center.


Satellite image of Google Earth: Su-27 fighters, L-39 training aircraft, Su-25 attack aircraft and Il-76 military transport aircraft at the Nikolaev airfield, the image was taken in April 2021

At the airfield located east of Nikolaev, on a permanent basis, in addition to other aircraft, there are 10-12 MiG-29s and Su-27s used for training and education. Some of these machines were in a non-flying condition and were intended for training and training of ground technical personnel.

Participation of Ukrainian fighters in hostilities


Prior to the start of the JMD, American intelligence had fairly accurate information about the plans of the Russian military command and shared some of the data with the Ukrainian military-political leadership. As in the case of mobile air defense systems, most of the capable Ukrainian fighters were removed from the attack. The planes were dispersed over civilian airfields and sheltered in high-strength protective structures.

At the first stage of the military campaign, Russian missile and bomb strikes on Ukrainian air bases basically eliminated vehicles that did not have a great combat value: with an exhausted resource or used as training aids. The damage inflicted by Russian aircraft and cruise missiles on the ground infrastructure of Ukrainian air bases was, in most cases, not critical.

The repair services repaired the craters on the runway and taxiways quite quickly, and the delivery of aviation fuels and lubricants, consumables and weapons was also urgently organized to compensate for the supplies partially lost during Russian air attacks. Ukrainian aircraft repair enterprises were badly damaged, several aircraft that were in the workshops were destroyed and seriously damaged. But in the short term, this did not matter and did not have a noticeable effect on the course of hostilities.

At the initial stage of the military special operation, the Russian Aerospace Forces had unconditional superiority. But soon the Ukrainian military aviation recovered from the initial shock, and its presence became noticeable.


Although the Ukrainian MiG-29 and Su-27 did not play such a role in the air defense organization as medium-range and long-range air defense systems, they nevertheless conducted several air battles and were involved in the interception of Russian cruise missiles and drones.

Without reliable and confirmed by independent and unbiased sources of information, it is impossible to judge the results of the combat activities of the Air Force of Ukraine and the losses.

According to information published by the Russian Defense Ministry, since the beginning of the special operation, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have lost more than 265 aircraft and 145 helicopters. If you believe this, then the Ukrainian military aviation has long gone into a deep minus. However, Western experts write that Ukraine still has two dozen capable fighters. However, their technical condition leaves much to be desired.


The Ukrainian MiG-29s are mainly used to deliver NAR strikes against ground targets, trying not to enter the coverage area of ​​Russian air defense systems. In addition to using unguided aircraft weapons, the MiG-29 was adapted to carry American AGM-88 HARM anti-radar missiles.


Start PRR AGM-88 HARM from the Ukrainian MiG-29

In September 2022, a photo of a Ukrainian Su-27 with American PRRs appeared. This is the first time that a Su-27 carrying missiles of this type has been seen. Given the longer flight range than the MiG-29, the Su-27 with such weapons poses a great danger to ground and ship radars.


Judging by the published photographs, AGM-88 HARM missiles are suspended on standard APU-470 launchers, which are used on the MiG-29 and Su-27 to fire R-27 medium-range missiles.

It is obvious that the use of modern high-speed PRR by the Ukrainian side significantly complicates the combat work of Russian air defense systems, which previously worked in a relatively simple environment.

It is worth noting that the intensity of the combat work of Ukrainian aviation would have been significantly lower without logistical support from the West. Apparently, Ukrainian fighters not only receive spare parts from NATO countries where MiG-29s are available, but are also being repaired and based in Poland.


A material and quite noticeable confirmation of this is the commissioning of the MiG-29 fighters belonging to the Ukrainian Falcons aerobatic team, which were in storage for a long time. Western sources claim that this became possible after the supply of spare parts from an unnamed country, but hints are made that Warsaw was involved in the restoration of the fighters.


The other day there was information that one MiG-29 crashed on October 13 near Vinnitsa while trying to intercept "drone-kamikaze "" Geranium-2 ". Judging by the photographs of the wreckage, this aircraft used to be part of the Ukrainian Falcons aerobatic team.

Deliveries of fighters from NATO countries


After it became clear that the Russian NMD would not end in a short time, and the conflict became protracted, NATO countries began to provide large-scale military assistance to Ukraine.

At the initial stage, Ukraine asked for Soviet-style combat aircraft, which the Armed Forces of Ukraine could use without retraining. Of the Soviet-made MiG-29 fighters, there are in Bulgaria, Poland and Slovakia.

In March 2022, there was talk of transferring Polish MiG-29s to Ukraine (single-seat MiG-29A (modifications 9.12) and double MiG-29UB (modifications 9.51), of which there were 23 units in flight condition. Some of the aircraft were overhauled at Aircraft Repair Plant No. 2 in the city of Bydgoszcz However, for a number of reasons, Poland did not deliver its fighters, limiting itself to technical support and the provision of repair facilities.

After the "velvet divorce" with the Czech Republic, Slovakia got 9 single MiG-29A and one double MiG-29UB. In 1993, Bratislava received 12 more single-seat MiG-29s and 2 twin MiG-29UBs as part of the Russian debt. In 2004, Slovakia signed a contract with RAC MiG for the modernization of these aircraft. The modernization of the MiG-29A to the level of the MiG-29AS and the extension of their service life were carried out at the aircraft repair plant in Trencin, which serves the entire aircraft fleet of the Slovak Air Force.

According to RAC MiG, the Slovak Air Force, subject to proper maintenance, could operate the MiG-29AS until 2030. Non-modernized aircraft that had exhausted their resource were put into storage. In August, it became known that Slovakia intends to transfer 11 fighters to the Ukrainian Air Force, apparently, we are talking about modernized MiG-29AS. Aircraft in storage will become a source of spare parts.

The Bulgarian Air Force has operated MiG-29 fighters since 1989. In total, the Bulgarian Air Force received 18 MiG-29A and four combat training MiG-29UB. Overhaul and modernization of Bulgarian MiGs since 2003 have been carried out at the TEREM plant in Plovdiv. This made it possible to extend the service life of the aircraft, but by 2021, most of the formally available 16 Bulgarian Air Force fighters were in poor technical condition, and they are mainly of interest as donors of components and assemblies.

In the spring of 2022, the Romanian government seriously considered the issue of transferring MiG-21 Lancer fighters converted from the MiG-21MF by the Israeli company Israel Aerospace Industries and the Romanian company IAR Brasov to Ukraine. In 2021, Romania had two dozen single-seat MiG-21 Lancer C and four double-seat MiG-21 Lancer B. All Romanian Lancers were planned to be written off in the near future after the arrival of F-16 fighters from Norway. However, given the age and technical condition of these aircraft, it was decided that they had no serious combat value.

In July 2022, the US House of Representatives approved the allocation of $100 million for the training of Ukrainian pilots. Initially, information was received that the Ukrainians would master the F-15 and F-16 fighters. But in the autumn it became known that training was being carried out only on F-16 fighters. Most likely, this takes place at the Luke base in Arizona.


Observers agree that in the future, Ukraine will most likely receive used Block 50/52 modification aircraft taken from the presence of the US Air Force or one of the NATO countries. It can also be F-16AM / BM (modernized fighters built in the second half of the 1980s).

The official Russian media claims that Ukraine will have access to Western fighters no earlier than in 2 years. But this is an attempt at complacency. The training of F-16 pilots, who already have experience flying the MiG-29 and Su-27, takes 2-3 months in intensive mode, about the same time is required for the training of ground technical personnel. After that, American-made combat aircraft may appear in the Ukrainian Air Force in the near future. It is also possible that volunteers from Western countries with combat experience will fly on the Fighting Falcons, transferred to the Ukrainian Air Force, and specialists from private military aviation companies will be attracted to service them.
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  1. -23
    17 October 2022 04: 21
    "Without having reliable and confirmed by independent and unbiased sources of information, it is impossible to judge the results of the combat activities of the Air Force of Ukraine and the losses." - And why all this article, if only, or maybe, that is, if there is no data, then there is nothing.
    1. -12
      17 October 2022 04: 57
      two brothers killed their mother, tore it to pieces, and now they brag about who got it more. insanity.
      1. -21
        17 October 2022 07: 18
        Yes, they don’t have so many young pilots, but 20-30 f-16s won’t make the weather.
        1. +7
          17 October 2022 13: 38
          Well, 20-30 Mig 29s make the weather, why don't they do the same amount of f-16s?
          1. -10
            17 October 2022 13: 59
            Quote from xghost
            Well, 20-30 Mig 29s make the weather, why don't they do the same amount of f-16s?

            Well, we have the same MiG-29 in times more, not to mention the Su-27/30/35s?
            1. +7
              17 October 2022 23: 54
              What's the point? If we do not fly over the front line.
            2. +4
              18 October 2022 07: 29
              And you count the number of F-16s in the world of production in the 80s. According to some reports, about 200+ cadets of flight schools and young pilots were taken to the United States to complete their training and retrain / master American aircraft. Add to them "pilots of luck" from various PMCs and other "volunteers". And then the scale of a possible problem in the near future will become approximately clear to you, if the conflict really becomes protracted in earnest.
              Quote: Civil
              Well, we have the same MiG-29 many times more, not to mention the Su-27/30/35s?

              We will never be able to concentrate all our aviation on one theater of operations, we have enough other areas and promising theaters of operations. A plus for us is a well-developed air defense system and a sufficient amount of its means. But the insufficiency of the number of combat aircraft of the "Little Army" (a dream come true of the Supreme High Command, aka GDP) will hiccup us more than once. As well as the airfields destroyed by Taburetkin.
              And if we take into account that the guarantor of the towers again sang about "there will be no more mobilization" and attempts to fight on the ground one against five will continue (and it will be so, because they intend to maintain the balance of forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with new waves of mobilization), then ... there are strong doubts about the intention of the towers to win. And even more so - to win in a relatively short time.
              I would love to see this in practice.
            3. +1
              18 October 2022 12: 06
              Well then ok. It's like in a computer game, whoever has more units wins.
              1. +3
                18 October 2022 16: 15
                They also have better organizational skills. At least the same application of starlink shows. Better intelligence, greater frostbite, better economic base, more specialists.
                We do not have a systematic approach - each military company develops its own hardware and software, there is no unification and coverage of new technologies.
                Here I was trying to push a two-step project that would allow the country to save 45 billion rubles a year, save many lives and give other benefits - and stupidly ran into corruption and impenetrable passivity.
          2. 0
            22 December 2022 18: 35
            Because they are needed now, and not when the MiG-29s are knocked out.
        2. +12
          17 October 2022 23: 56
          a 20-30 f-16 won't make the weather.

          What is there in this list of those who do not make the weather:
          IRIS-T
          HIMARS
          M777
          Harpoon
          Javelin?
          1. 0
            18 October 2022 09: 10
            Quote: Check
            a 20-30 f-16 won't make the weather.

            What is there in this list of those who do not make the weather:
            IRIS-T
            HIMARS
            M777
            Harpoon
            Javelin?

            Geranium -2, one cheap UAV system did more than a bunch of expensive calibers at the beginning of CBO! And what can aviation do like geranium-2?
            1. -1
              18 October 2022 12: 11
              What did Ger... Shahed-136 do? Ruined the lives of civilians in the rear for a day? Killed civilians behind the lines? Scared civilians in the rear?
              1. +1
                18 October 2022 12: 42
                Quote from xghost
                What did Ger... Shahed-136 do? Ruined the lives of civilians in the rear for a day? Killed civilians behind the lines? Scared civilians in the rear?

                The specifics of energy consumption is highly dependent on 2 things:
                1. Warranties of work on temporary, quantitative and qualitative characteristics. Any unscheduled voltage drop in the network - hundreds of burnt appliances.
                2. System reliability, when the consumer is confident in the future operation of his equipment.
                Without these conditions, even a garage workshop cannot work.

                And no one cares about civilians. These are consumables.
                1. -1
                  10 November 2022 15: 01
                  A month has passed. Kherson was surrendered at the front, in the rear of Ukraine the inconvenience was compensated by increased air defense supplies. Profit.
      2. +3
        17 October 2022 19: 49
        Grandfather old. Many pretend not to understand, even offended. It jammed in the brain. Although there is nothing to brag about at all, even one millionth of one percent. Everything was done as they said in foreign countries. No brain no Gain.
  2. -4
    17 October 2022 04: 29
    Is this to help Gen. Konashenkov or vice versa? In general, the calculations of Ukrainian weapons are more and more reminiscent of an old cartoon
    1. +4
      17 October 2022 05: 00
      Quote: Amateur
      looks like an old cartoon

      Oh mom! I have been counted!
    2. -6
      17 October 2022 05: 07
      Quote: Amateur
      Is this to help Gen. Konashenkov or vice versa?

      This means that formally the MO reports do not lie. How many planes have been destroyed on the ground since the beginning of the NWO, which are “like alive, only inanimate”, it is completely unclear, but the fact that there were unmeasured ones in parking lots and all sorts of storage areas is completely clear.
      1. +8
        17 October 2022 10: 04
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        How many aircraft have been destroyed on the ground since the beginning of the NWO, which are “like alive, only inanimate”, it is completely unclear, but the fact that there were unmeasured ones in parking lots and all sorts of storage areas is completely clear.

        "Unclear" and "unmeasured" are the terms that a couch expert can use.
        But not a representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. When Mr. Konashenkov single digit precision voices the losses of aviation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which means that he is responsible for each.
        Otherwise, what was said is just a banal lie.
        1. 0
          17 October 2022 10: 12
          Quote from: skeptick2
          "Unclear" and "unmeasured" are the terms that a couch expert can use.

          A non-couch expert, tell me, can you distinguish an incomplete aircraft destroyed on the ground from the same, but completely serviceable?

          Quote from: skeptick2
          Otherwise, what was said is just a banal lie.
          I see in your comment banal stupidity.
          1. +2
            17 October 2022 10: 38
            You can see whatever you want, it's your legal right.
            Just like believing what the TV tells us. But try, the next time you look at it, compare Konashenkov's next victorious report with this thesis of the article:
            "According to information published by the RF Ministry of Defense, since the beginning of the special operation, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have lost more than 265 aircraft and 145 helicopters. If you believe this, then Ukrainian military aviation has long gone into a deep minus."
            Such comparisons sometimes improve vision and allow you to see the picture in a slightly different light.
            1. +1
              17 October 2022 11: 14
              Quote from: skeptick2
              Such comparisons sometimes improve vision and allow you to see the picture in a slightly different light.

              And if you open your eyes, you can see such words.:
              As in the case of mobile air defense systems, most of the capable Ukrainian fighters were taken out of attack. The planes were dispersed over civilian airfields and sheltered in high-strength protective structures.

              At the first stage of the military campaign, Russian missile and bomb strikes on Ukrainian air bases mostly destroyed vehicles that did not have great combat value: with an exhausted resource or used as teaching aids.

              And not once did Konashenkov say that the planes were shot down in the air, and did not distribute them by type.

              I don't see an answer to this question:
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              A non-couch expert, tell me, can you distinguish an incomplete aircraft destroyed on the ground from the same, but completely serviceable?
        2. +2
          17 October 2022 13: 39
          Well, of course it's a lie. Kanashenkov is responsible for ensuring that housewives can easily manage their homes.
        3. -2
          17 October 2022 20: 18
          When Mr. Konashenkov, with an accuracy of one figure, voices the losses of the aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this means that he is responsible for each.

          Responsible for each is unrealistic, there is always the possibility of error. Some plane was damaged in the parking lot, but if you replace the part, it will fly. Instead of an airplane, they could slip a dummy, etc. ... So, plus or minus a dozen planes can walk in one direction.
      2. +4
        17 October 2022 19: 50
        Vladimir_2U. And the inflated ones were considered as real ones made of wood too.
        1. -1
          18 October 2022 08: 32
          Quote: zenion
          Vladimir_2U. And the inflated ones were considered as real ones made of wood too.

          There, decoys are not needed either, with so many non-repairable junk ...
          Formally, they destroyed the plane in the parking lot, but in fact they ditched the rocket for garbage. And no one said a word. I'm talking about it.
    3. +3
      17 October 2022 06: 20
      Kanashenko destroys 5 planes a day! How many thousands of planes are left in Ukraine?
      1. +3
        17 October 2022 09: 08
        What is direct on 5 and every day? Well, well, well, so even yesterday it was less, the day before yesterday it was less, the day before yesterday it was less, from what day should I start then? And for almost the entire summer, not a single aircraft appeared in the reports at all, how is this to be understood?
        And then Western countries started talking about the supply of aircraft and aircraft began to appear, I don’t even know, it’s probably not connected in any way or connected, what do you think?
      2. -3
        17 October 2022 11: 34
        236 days NVO goes on, Konashenkov reported about 320+ aircraft, you say 5 aircraft a day Konashenkov destroys ... Why not 10? I think 10 is more, try next time to write about 10.
      3. +1
        17 October 2022 19: 58
        Smart ass. An old anecdote of that power. There is a competition. It is necessary to squeeze out all the drops from the handkerchief that drip. It turns out a hefty German. Four drops were dripped on one corner of the handkerchief, he tried so hard, squeezed out two drops. Then the Frenchman comes out. Four drops are dripped into the other corner of the handkerchief. I was able to squeeze out two drops. Then the American comes out. Four drops dripped into another corner. He managed to squeeze out three drops. Finally, four drops are dripped onto the last corner. It turns out such a weak peasant from the USSR, begins to put pressure. Squeezed out four drops and continues to press. Already a quarter of a glass, he continues to press, already half a glass. He is asked how much more you can squeeze out. Little man - and as much as the party orders, I will squeeze out so much. Apparently the same thing happens with airplanes.
  3. +3
    17 October 2022 05: 00
    one MiG-29 crashed on October 13 near Vinnitsa while trying to intercept the Geran-2 kamikaze drone.

    According to Ukrainian data, this fighter allegedly managed to shoot down five drones, while colliding with the wreckage of one of them. The fighter caught fire, and the pilot ejected.
    1. -1
      17 October 2022 19: 59
      The pilot ejected with the last drone in his mouth.
      1. +10
        18 October 2022 01: 29
        Quote: zenion
        The pilot ejected with the last drone in his mouth.

        Alas, the pilot is alive, gave an interview, and dreams of flying the F-16.
        From myself I will add that gloating and blind hatred towards the enemy are bad helpers in the war, because they blind the mind and inspire a false sense of superiority.
        If in front of you is not a punisher, but a warrior, he must be respected and studied. Only then do you have a chance to defeat him.
        You will make fun of him and scoff - you will not see victory.
  4. +10
    17 October 2022 05: 07
    The bottom line: "Information about the death of the VVSU is somewhat exaggerated" (((
    1. -8
      17 October 2022 09: 22
      Bottom line: the Armed Forces of Ukraine sometimes have to use aircraft like the Su-29, specifically the Su-29, not the Migi, if this is not death, then these are already certain death convulsions.
      1. +17
        17 October 2022 09: 43
        Quote from DimCorvus
        Bottom line: the Armed Forces of Ukraine sometimes have to use aircraft like the Su-29, specifically the Su-29, not the Migi, if this is not death, then these are already certain death convulsions.

        Are you sure?

        Su-29
      2. +9
        17 October 2022 09: 46
        Quote from DimCorvus
        Bottom line: the Armed Forces of Ukraine sometimes have to use aircraft like the Su-29, specifically the Su-29, not the Migi, if this is not death, then these are already certain death convulsions.

        So what? During the years of the Second World War, that we, that the Germans used "flying whatnots" as night bombers and with some success. Recently, the Azerbaijani army has very successfully used the An-2, as a "opener" of the air defense system of the army of Nagorno-Karabakh. So, the highly-composite, with the exception of the engine, highly maneuverable Su-29 is not the worst option, it would be nice to know what they used it for
        1. +8
          17 October 2022 09: 53
          There was no Su-29 in the reports, I specifically checked it.
          1. 0
            17 October 2022 09: 57
            Quote from cold wind
            There was no Su-29 in the reports, I specifically checked it.

            In whose? In our? Nevertheless, rocket and artillery strikes were carried out on the hangars of the flying club of the city of Kharkov. This is exactly what was in our reports.
            Coincidence?

            1. +1
              20 October 2022 12: 36
              Okay, at least for 9 months of surgery and not after 3 years
          2. +3
            17 October 2022 12: 12
            Most likely he meant L39, training. The performance of training aircraft in combat, as it were, says something.
            1. 0
              17 October 2022 17: 44
              Quote: Sergey VTC
              Most likely he meant L39, training. The performance of training aircraft in combat, as it were, says something.

              So this aircraft has long been used as a light attack aircraft. And as I understand it, there is also their share in the list of 1001 downed Su-25s
        2. +2
          17 October 2022 15: 26
          I’ll say more u87 at the beginning of the war was outdated, when the British found out about the characteristics of the thing they didn’t worry at all ... junk ... if they knew how cleverly Hans Rudel laid 500 kg of bombs, they would begin to worry
          1. +7
            17 October 2022 17: 50
            ... if they knew how cleverly Hans Rudel laid 500 kg of bombs, they would begin to worry
            Would they know how skillfully Hans Rudel will write...
        3. 0
          26 October 2022 01: 00
          The main question is: how? How to use a light aircraft that does not carry any suspension and has a fuel supply only to turn the loops over the aerodrome? If only the flyer is given a machine gun so that he unsuccessfully chases the "Geraniums" that accidentally flew into the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe aerodrome
  5. +1
    17 October 2022 05: 09
    I wonder why these air bases and factories were not smashed in February? Okay, I admit that they did not want to allow unnecessary victims. But after all it was possible to "dig up" concrete strips?
    The second is interesting. Whom do we still shoot down several units almost daily? Did the NATO countries hand over so many aircraft from their presence to the Ukrainians?
    1. +13
      17 October 2022 08: 53
      Quote from gafovec
      I wonder why these air bases and factories were not smashed in February? Okay, I admit that they did not want to allow unnecessary victims. But after all it was possible to "dig up" concrete strips?

      The runway of all major Ukrainian air bases and part of civilian airfields was dug up. But such damage in the absence of constant fire exposure is quickly eliminated by ground engineering and restoration services. Somewhere since mid-April, our front-line aviation has not been flying over the rear areas. And hollowing out the bands of the Kyrgyz Republic is a very costly and practically useless exercise.
      Quote from gafovec
      The second is interesting. Whom do we still shoot down several units almost daily? Did the NATO countries hand over so many aircraft from their presence to the Ukrainians?

      Nowhere do not lie, as in the course of hostilities. The talking head from the Russian Defense Ministry exaggerates the losses of Ukrainian aviation too much. There is information regarding NATO MiG-29s in this publication.
      1. +2
        20 October 2022 12: 37
        The only adequate comment of a thinking person, my respect
  6. +1
    17 October 2022 05: 39
    And where does Ukraine take and store aviation kerosene? Well, okay, Konashenkov miscalculated in the number of letaks, and why intelligence did not reveal the storage base, because it is not difficult to guess that these stocks are stored near the airfields and have not yet been destroyed.
    1. +12
      17 October 2022 06: 35
      Quote from Silver99
      And where does Ukraine take and store aviation kerosene? Well, okay, Konashenkov miscalculated in the number of letaks, and why intelligence did not reveal the storage base, because it is not difficult to guess that these stocks are stored near the airfields and have not yet been destroyed.

      Aviation in Ukraine is not so much. For the surviving aircraft and helicopters, aviation fuel can be delivered by fuel trucks and railway tanks. Apparently there are no problems with this.
  7. +4
    17 October 2022 05: 47
    I would call this material an autobiography of the Air Force of independent Ukraine. A fairly detailed analysis of the aviation industry in Ukraine. I will finish with the words from the movie BUMER - you had a good Merce, Dimon!. So it is in this case.
  8. Eug
    +1
    17 October 2022 06: 23
    As for me, the number of those shot down is considered as follows - the number of missile launches x the probability (THEORETICAL) of hitting an aircraft with one missile, but few people from the RF Armed Forces know how it really is, and this knowledge is definitely not for the public. This option somehow explains the miracles with the materiel of the ZSU.
    1. +6
      17 October 2022 08: 16
      Absolutely right. This practice comes from Syria. When, after the raid by the Israeli Air Force, all the missiles were destroyed, though one infection broke through and destroyed the IRGC facility.
  9. -3
    17 October 2022 06: 29
    Su-24s are not based in Lutsk, and, moreover, aircraft cannot belong to the 7th brigade (Starokonstantinov), as the author of the article reports, one of the Su-24 storage bases is in Lutsk
    1. +7
      17 October 2022 06: 37
      Quote: bober1982
      Su-24s are not based in Lutsk, and, moreover, aircraft cannot belong to the 7th brigade (Starokonstantinov), as the author of the article reports, one of the Su-24 storage bases is in Lutsk

      Are you ready to argue with the author for a bottle of cognac that the Su-24s in Lutsk were not only stored, but also regularly used this airfield for flights?
      1. -2
        17 October 2022 06: 41
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        Are you ready to argue with the author for a bottle of cognac that the Su-24s in Lutsk were not only stored, but also regularly used this airfield for flights?

        What does female cunning mean!
        Dear Olga, this is not about the fact that the Lutsk airfield cannot be used as a jump, but that there was a large Su-24 aircraft dump, which was arranged almost immediately after the collapse of the Union and the dispersal of the 806 regiment (Su-24)
    2. +7
      17 October 2022 09: 34
      Quote: bober1982
      Su-24s are not based in Lutsk, and, moreover, aircraft cannot belong to the 7th brigade (Starokonstantinov), as the author of the article reports, one of the Su-24 storage bases is in Lutsk

      Maybe there was a landfill in Lutsk after the collapse of the USSR, but until February 24 everything looked decent there.

      In any case, in Russia, planes are "stored" sometimes, which is even worse.

      The only unit left in Ukraine armed with Su-24M bombers and Su-24MR reconnaissance aircraft is the 7th tactical aviation brigade. In addition to Starokonstantinov, aircraft from this unit have periodically landed in Lutsk since 2016.

      In 2018, the runway and taxiways to the hangars were partially repaired, after which Ukrainian front-line bombers began to appear here regularly.
      1. -5
        17 October 2022 11: 07
        Quote: Bongo
        The only unit left in Ukraine armed with Su-24M bombers and Su-24MR reconnaissance aircraft is the 7th tactical aviation brigade. In addition to Starokonstantinov, aircraft from this unit have periodically landed in Lutsk since 2016

        And why - in Ukraine, would be more correct in Ukraine, we do not live in Banderstan.
        Quote: Bongo
        In addition to Starokonstantinov, aircraft from this unit have periodically landed in Lutsk since 2016

        Did you understand what you said? Landing periodically (Su-24) in Lutsk does not at all mean being based there (Su-24)
        I, if desired, can also post Internet pictures of Lutsk Su-24s, but the photos there are not aesthetic, there are a lot of rubbish.
        1. +10
          17 October 2022 11: 26
          Quote: bober1982
          And why - in Ukraine, it would be more correct in Ukraine, because we do not live in Banderstan

          I don't know where you live. If something does not suit you from the way I present it, you can write an article yourself.
          Quote: bober1982
          Did you understand what you said? Landing periodically (Su-24) in Lutsk does not at all mean being based there

          In the course of collecting information for this publication, I relied not only on various sources (which talk about the basing of the Su-24), but also on satellite images. Sorry, but why should they believe less than you?
          I also remember very well how you tried to butt heads with the ancient one (the old-timers of the site remember him), who, being a navigator-instructor in the GLITs, flew on all modifications of the Su-24, and had a raid and experience (including combat) much more than yours. I also remember how these butts ended. You obviously will not hurt less categorical and aplomb.
          1. 0
            17 October 2022 14: 55
            Quote: Bongo
            I remember just as well how you tried to butt heads with the ancient

            Where did you disappear to? By the way, here on the site, a lot of "golden feathers" were blown away by the wind with the beginning of the NWO
            Quote: Bongo
            who, being a navigator-instructor in the GLITS, flew all modifications of the Su-24

            So he seemed to be a pilot, not a navigator.
            Quote: Bongo
            flew on all modifications of the Su-24

            Strongly said, it is immediately clear that you have a vague idea of ​​​​all modifications of the Su-24
            Let me explain, if you fly on the Su-24, even on the old one - with a terrible square backside, then in the future to fly on other modifications does not seem to be something unusual.
            1. +5
              17 October 2022 15: 45
              Quote: bober1982
              Where did you disappear to?

              The ancient had very serious health problems, we do not know if he is still alive .... crying Repeated bailouts do not add health.
              Quote: bober1982
              Strongly said, it is immediately clear that you have a vague idea of ​​​​all modifications of the Su-24

              Well, yes, well, yes ... especially considering that you argued with the ancient in the comments to the article about various modifications of the Su-24, their combat service, and this article was written by my husband. wink
  10. NSV
    0
    17 October 2022 08: 34
    Strange .... Who then is still being shot down over the territory of 404, if there was one and a half aircraft?
    1. +7
      17 October 2022 08: 57
      According to all reports of the Ukrainian Air Force, there were 142 attack aircraft / fighters / bombers, in theory they could restore 20-30 sides, receive 20-30 from the ATS countries. Approximately 200 "flyers", okay, we'll throw another 20 on transport aviation. But according to the official data of the Ministry of Defense, 323 aircraft were destroyed, from where 100 additional aircraft appeared and are still flying, they do not explain.
      1. -3
        17 October 2022 09: 26
        In the MO reports there are all sorts of Su-29s and other rubbish that does not apply to combat aircraft, but these are aircraft.
        1. +1
          17 October 2022 09: 48
          Quote from DimCorvus
          In the MO reports there are all sorts of Su-29s and other rubbish that does not apply to combat aircraft, but these are aircraft.

          Naturally, you can name the date when this summary was?
          Quote from DimCorvus
          And almost all summer in general, not a single aircraft practically appeared in the reports, how is this to be understood?

          Code of June 15:
          Russian air defense systems of Russia in the Krasnopolye region of the Donetsk People's Republic shot down a Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force.

          Summary of July 15:
          Fighter aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down two MiG-29 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force in the areas of the settlements of Slavyansk and Druzhkovka in the Donetsk People's Republic in a day.
          Russian air defense systems shot down two Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force near the village of Barmashovo, Mykolaiv region.

          Summary of August 10:
          Fighter aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces in air battles over the territory of the Nikolaev region shot down three aircraft of the Ukrainian air forces: one Su-25 in the area of ​​\u29b\u27bthe settlement of Novokhristoforovka, one MiG-XNUMX over Troitsko-Safonovo and one Su-XNUMX in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe settlement Novoselye.


          Accordingly, you are already lying. Confirm the first statement?
          1. -4
            17 October 2022 10: 18
            Phrases - accordingly, obviously - are NLP phrases to distort the interlocutor's point of view. I said that almost all summer there were no downed planes, you know not = that all summer there were no downed planes at all. How is it, respectively, I'm lying? The fact is, none. Accordingly, you are already lying.

            I memorize all the reports of the Defense Ministry and don’t remember the dates, I generally watched a dozen of them, maybe a little more. I remember that Sanya from Florida showed this plane on his channel (about the beginning of September, I think). And now you will say that since I can’t give the exact date and I don’t remember all the reports, then “respectively” this is again not true and there was no such thing? Well, it wasn’t like that, it didn’t, so those planes “respectively” simply disappeared from reality along with the pilots - somehow I don’t care what happened to them, I won’t watch dozens of videos because of you.
            1. +1
              17 October 2022 10: 32
              I took the dates arbitrarily, in June-July, downed planes of the Ukrainian Air Force appear in reports almost every day, in mid-August there really was an operational pause of about 2 weeks. So you are lying here.
              You also lied about the Su-29.
              Do you write the truth at all?

              PS, according to the Ministry of Defense, every day we destroy 1,4 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force.
              1. -5
                17 October 2022 11: 15
                If Russian is not your native language, try using google translate. How can I lie if even you agree with me? It would be something for you to refute, you would probably refute, and not make unfounded stuffing. I don’t remember about Su, I remember that I watched Sanya on the channel, maybe it was another downed sports plane, the fact that it was a sports plane, he posted a photo there, look if you need it so much.
              2. -1
                17 October 2022 11: 22
                If you claim that my data is not correct, then write down exactly which models of aircraft were shot down and how many of each type. Or write "you're all lying" and look for it yourself to count not the same thing? I know for sure that I'm right. But you can’t know if I’m right or wrong until you analyze all the reports.
  11. -4
    17 October 2022 09: 24
    Quote: Bongo
    Nowhere do not lie, as in the course of hostilities. The talking head from the Russian Defense Ministry exaggerates the losses of Ukrainian aviation too much.

    For almost the entire summer, not a single Ukrainian aircraft appeared in the reports of the Russian Defense Ministry. Tell us in more detail, how can you exaggerate zero?
  12. Eug
    +2
    17 October 2022 09: 26
    I categorically disagree on ARZ and competent qualified personnel, only there were more "destroyer" ARZ in Ukraine, in 1992 plus to those mentioned there were another 805 ARZ in Dnepropetrovsk (liquidated, MiG-23,25 for hot dry climate countries), Chuguevsky ARZ (MiG -21, 23, L-39 for foreign customers, worked before the well-known events), and the Odessa ARZ (a lot of things for many). Plus, the Nikolaev ARZ (it seems to have worked) and the Evpatoria ARZ (it seems to have been liquidated). Considering 2 flight schools (Kharkiv, Chernigov), engineering higher schools in Kharkov and Kyiv, secondary aviation in Vasilkov, civilian (with military departments) aviation universities in Kyiv and Kharkov - there were more than ...
  13. -4
    17 October 2022 09: 29
    I can believe that an experienced pilot (where will he come from in Ukraine?) in 2-3 months can be retrained for new equipment. But, here is the ground staff, retraining for equipment that is very different and all instructions in English, I am tormented by vague doubts.
    1. +2
      17 October 2022 13: 49
      Yes, none of the Ukrainians know English. This is an ancient and rare language, no one even knows all of its letters.
      1. -3
        17 October 2022 20: 54
        Have you served in the army? To hell with people who know English at a normal level? Not to mention that technical English is not a translation of the movie "XXX".
        1. +2
          18 October 2022 12: 05
          Don't poke. I know very well what technical English is in aviation. But of course you don't. It's easier to live that way.
          1. -3
            18 October 2022 12: 15
            Are you able to read? You were addressed to you, and aviation is different. there is a court regiment, where everything is of the highest rank, and there is an ordinary part, where everything is not so beautiful. Especially taking into account the fact that with the current bandera salaries it is simply not realistic to drag an intelligent specialist into the army, they all left a long time ago.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
  14. +4
    17 October 2022 10: 02
    hi
    As always, an interesting article!
    On the issue of HARMs, their use is confirmed by both sides and the found parts of the missiles.

    The method of suspension / use of HARM is incomprehensible, it seems that they wrote about some kind of preliminary programming of the rocket, and not about capturing a target on the carrier.

    As for the carriers, it is also not clear, on the Internet there is a photo of the KhARM launch from Mig29 recognized by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    The photo of the Su27 with HARM was sorted out at Lostarmore, it seems that they came to the conclusion that this was a montage and even someone posted the original photo.

    Observers agree that in the future, Ukraine will most likely receive used Block 50/52 modification aircraft taken from the presence of the US Air Force or one of the NATO countries. It can also be F-16AM / BM (modernized fighters built in the second half of the 1980s).
    Discussed - unofficially, at the level of "bloggers-journalists-rumors" - the possibility of transferring the F16, which are being removed from service in connection with the transition to the F35: for example, Norwegian or Israeli F16, rather "advanced" versions; IMHO, in the US, too, there are such options.
    Judging by the already announced deliveries of, for example, used Norwegian F16s to Romania, they are also in a good configuration of guided weapons for ground strikes.
    It was officially announced that there would be no "Western-style" fighters for the time being.

    But, IMHO, the transfer of Western-style fighters "of the F16 type in the foreseeable future is very, very unlikely. Even tanks are only "Soviet-style", armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles / MRAPs - in small volumes of the possible quantity. "Air defense aviation" for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, IMHO again, in second or third place after the "shock" technique.
    1. +7
      17 October 2022 10: 25
      Quote: Wildcat

      The method of suspension / use of HARM is incomprehensible, it seems that they wrote about some kind of preliminary programming of the rocket, and not about capturing a target on the carrier.

      Everything is just an AGM-88 HARM rocket used from a standard LAU-118 / A launcher, which is attached to a specially made adapter pylon.

      The data is really driven in on the ground or can be displayed on a special tablet in the pilot's office. In both cases, there is no need for integration with the fighter's onboard systems. Power supply from the on-board network or a separate battery.
      Installation is simple, done under any canopy.
      HARM is launched from MiG-29 and Su-27 information is confirmed by both sides.

      About the F-16, Ukrainian pilots began to learn how to fly them back in the summer, then there is no doubt that they will be handed over. The only question is when. In theory, they should be ready around the new year, then it's a matter of politics.
      1. +4
        17 October 2022 10: 37
        hi
        "According to one of the assumptions, based on the video of the Ukrainian Air Force, the modified weapon control system of the MiG-29 fighter “sees” the HARM missile suspended on the aircraft as a Soviet R-27PE air-to-air guided missile with a passive radar homing head 9B1032. It can also be assumed that the use of HARM missiles with the MiG-29 is carried out on previously reconnoitered / identified targets-sources of radio emission, with a launch at the intended target location area at given coordinates, with the inclusion of a passive radar homing missile to search for and capture the target after launch ( the so-called Pre-Briefed (PB) mode, which also provides the maximum launch range)."
        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4578470.html


        Photos and videos from the Su27 and HARM have not yet come across.

        About the F-16, Ukrainian pilots began to learn how to fly them back in the summer, then there is no doubt that they will be handed over.
        Hmm, I came across information that negotiations are underway on this topic, something is being budgeted for by the US Department of Defense - but there is no exact / reliable data.
        1. +3
          17 October 2022 10: 46
          Quote: Wildcat

          Photos and videos from the Su27 and HARM have not yet come across.

          There was a video, a screen from it. There was also verbal confirmation from Ukraine and the Russian Federation.

          Quote: Wildcat
          Hmm, I came across information that negotiations are underway on this topic, something is being budgeted for by the US Department of Defense - but there is no exact / reliable data.

          The money allocated accordingly must be mastered. From Ukraine, information that their pilots began to study on the F-16 was in June. You need to understand that the Americans publish all the news related to supplies and training much later, the war is still going on ...
          1. +4
            17 October 2022 10: 54
            This photo is in the article, he just wrote about it: "The photo of the Su27 with HARM was taken apart at Losstarmore, it seems that they came to the conclusion that this was a montage and even someone posted the original photo."

            The money allocated accordingly must be mastered. From Ukraine, information that their pilots began to study on the F-16 was in June. You need to understand that the Americans publish all the news related to supplies and training much later, the war is still going on ...
            in this part, the statements of the parties should not be trusted, IMHO.

            There is no data from official sources on the allocation of money (1 congressman once offered 1 million dollars to allocate and that's all.)

            There is also no data on the training of aircraft and pilots.
            1. +3
              17 October 2022 11: 07
              Refreshed the memory of the issues discussed.
              There is really controversial information about information about the Su-27 and harms. But I don’t see any fundamental problems to put these missiles on the Su-27, of course it was easier on the MiG-29, NATO countries have them in service, they could simply use a ready-made solution.
              About money. The House of Representatives approved $100 million to train Ukrainian pilots in the use of US aircraft under National Defense Law 329-101, passed July 15. But for 2023. Accordingly, as he wrote, the question is in terms.
              1. +4
                17 October 2022 12: 01
                About money. House of Representatives Approves $100 Million to Train Ukrainian Pilots on U.S. Aircraft Under National Defense Law 329-101

                "The House of Representatives of the US Congress approved the allocation of $100 million to train Ukrainian pilots to fly American aircraft, as well as technicians to maintain it. Now it's up to the Senate and Biden.
                Alexander Sychev
                This decision is enshrined in the enacted National Defense Authority Act for Fiscal Year 2023.
                Training Ukrainian military pilots, if the law is approved in the Senate, and then passes without changes to the conciliation commission, is supposed to be on F-15 and F-16 fighters at Columbus Air Force Base, Mississippi, possibly in Texas or, which is also not excluded , European NATO member countries will be involved in educational work.
                "https://newizv.ru/news/army/18-07-2022/amerikanskiy-kongress-vydelyaet-100-mln-dollarov-na-obuchenie-ukrainskih-letchikov
                The whole news looks like this.

                IMHO, there is no evidence of further approval of this amount and of any execution of any pilot training program.
                Zelensky's "Wishlist" on the topic "give us modern aviation" was repeatedly voiced and repeatedly denied.
                In general, we will live until 2023 - we will see.

                There is really controversial information about information about the Su-27 and harms. But I don’t see any fundamental problems to put these missiles on the Su-27, of course it was easier on the MiG-29, NATO countries have them in service, they could simply use a ready-made solution.

                NATO Migov29 IMHO never had HARMs, they were used in air defense and in units of the Aggressors.

                On the Su27 IMHO, they could also "attach" the HARM, but here is the question of expediency.
                The Mig29 of the first series has long been a "so-so" fighter and it is not a pity to single it out in some quantity for SEAD.
                Su27 is the best fighter of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Considering that they have to fight air targets (KR, Gerani at least) day and night, it is unreasonable to send the Su27 to the SEAD. But here again the question is - how many "flight aircraft" are there and what are the possibilities.
                If there is a task to "destroy air defense / missile defense as much as possible", if only in order to facilitate the work of HIMARS, then they will connect everything that is possible. IMHO, for the purpose of "victory on the battlefield" the flights of Geraniums and Calibers can be neglected to some extent.
                1. +7
                  17 October 2022 12: 06
                  I acknowledge the achievement of consensus hi
                2. +2
                  18 October 2022 00: 07
                  According to the Belgorod airport (locator), why did you launch HARM?
      2. +2
        17 October 2022 13: 47
        Quote from cold wind
        The only question is when. In theory, they should be ready around the new year, then it's a matter of politics.

        This will be seen from the work on the airfields. Put the caponiers in order, start missile defense, Patriot or higher - deeds, unlike statements, will be noticeable.
      3. -1
        17 October 2022 13: 51
        Policy issue settled as Congress approves funding
  15. -7
    17 October 2022 10: 03
    So we warned the Ukrainians that we would attack. There are so many of our planes around the world, don’t know why everyone scolds Kanashenkov. And you don’t have to worry about f16, it’s too expensive when the war ends, but now it’s unlikely, a strong blow to reputation, and tanks too. The Americans do not want us to get our hands on shooting down their planes
    1. 0
      17 October 2022 13: 54
      Apparently, "stuffing" will not be a hand. The phrase "rolls lips" is more suitable. 100-200 F-16 per week, I think the workers of the PR service of the Moscow Region will master it.
  16. +5
    17 October 2022 10: 07
    Ukrainian aviation is alive, and even strikes at our troops. During the offensive of Ukrainian troops in the Kharkov direction, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine stated that their aviation was working more intensively than ours. pieces. Yes, at low altitudes, but they fly. Not to mention the helicopters, which, it turns out, even broke through into the besieged Mariupol.
    Knowing about the beginning of the special operation, all the aircraft were hidden, and then gradually put into action. I won’t be surprised if they fly to tasks from neighboring states.
    I read in the Tlg channel that, according to the website of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, two Ukrainian pilots were awarded the title for shooting down our IL-76. I don't know if it's true or not.
  17. +3
    17 October 2022 11: 03
    The article, of course, is interesting, but I would like to hear some reasoning. Why so many Ukrainian planes shot down by us. On 05.03.2022/21/69, it was announced that the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine lost 39 aircraft in the air and 16.10.2022 on the ground. By this time, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation did not particularly bother itself, there were almost no breakdowns by type of aircraft. And the L-39 was not mentioned at all. Analyzing Konashenkov's speeches on the destroyed aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, it turns out that on 24/108/25 28 Su-27s, 71 were shot down !! Su-29, 246 Su-90, 05.03.2022 MiG-XNUMX. Total - XNUMX units!! This almost does not include another XNUMX destroyed aircraft as of XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX (there was practically no breakdown by type - we will assume that the remkhlam was destroyed in storage).
    On 16.10.2022/323/XNUMX Konashenkov announced the destruction of XNUMX aircraft
    It can also be added that this number includes 12 Su-24s, 31 Su-25s, 9 Su-27s and 35 MiG-29s destroyed in air battles (also according to Konashenkov’s report).
    And this despite the fact that Jane for 2022 reports the presence of only 23 Su-24s, 31 Su-25s, 34 Su-27s, 36 MiG-29s - a total of 124 combat aircraft (even less combat-ready) and 31 UBS L-39. There were still enough aircraft in storage, but their technical condition is highly questionable. In the conditions of NWO, their restoration is very problematic, it is possible only for spare parts.
    World Air Forces 2022 reports that in 2022 the Air Force of Ukraine had 12 Su-24s, 17 Su-25s, 32 Su-27s, 36 MiG-29s (including 70 in storage).
    So why so many downed? That everything that was in storage was repaired and thrown into battle? Did Europe help with old Soviet planes? As for exports from Europe, I can only say that only Su-25s were delivered, incl. Bulgaria - 14, and Macedonia 4 (got there from Belarus).
    The well-known website Oryx as of 17.10.2022/12/24 reports only 14 Su-25s, 5 Su-27s, 14 Su-29s, XNUMX MiG-XNUMXs to the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    It is clear that one cannot trust all these Janes, Oryxes. But after all, the RF Ministry of Defense itself on March 25.03 reported and showed a table that Ukraine had 24.02.2022 combat aircraft on February 152, 39 (apparently with L-XNUMX)
    So it turns out that almost 3 combat aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force have already been destroyed (323 were destroyed, and there were 124). So who gets hit? Debit does not go with credit. I learned that 300 thousand rubles are paid for a downed plane, awards of course (an unpleasant topic, but prices for awards were already coming from Chechnya). Maybe the dog is buried here
    And as Ivan Vasilyevich Bunsha said: "I am tormented by vague doubts"
    1. 0
      17 October 2022 16: 18
      an unpleasant topic, but prices for awards were already coming from Chechnya
      Why unpleasant? In all normal armies they paid, they pay and will pay.
      1. +4
        18 October 2022 00: 06
        It is one thing to pay for the result, another for postscripts.
      2. +1
        18 October 2022 11: 46
        You did not understand me. To receive an award, the future recipient pays the person on whom the award depends and there are prices for each award
  18. 0
    17 October 2022 16: 12
    The training of F-16 pilots, who already have experience flying the MiG-29 and Su-27, takes 2-3 months in intensive mode, about the same time is required for the training of ground technical personnel.
    If my memory serves me right, Pokryshkin and his comrades spent six months retraining on the Aerocobra. So, with such training periods, it is doubtful that maintenance will cost without the direct participation of foreign specialists.
  19. +1
    17 October 2022 18: 07
    I wonder what numbers of destroyed aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will the press service of our Defense Ministry dwell on? After all, in six months it will be impossible to get close to the figure of 500 .. bully
  20. -1
    17 October 2022 18: 39
    Apparently, L-39s are taking part in the hostilities in Ukraine ... At least two Ukrainian L-39s are known to have been shot down, one of them killed "grandfather", Mikhail Matyushenko, who commanded the 40th tactical aviation brigade) https ://topcor.ru/28453-na-ukraine-sbili-prizraka-kieva-letjaschego-na-uchebnom-l-39.html... Of course, these are combat training vehicles with modest capabilities, but, apparently, Ukrainians don’t have to choose (in terms of their capabilities, they, to some extent, correspond to our Yak-50) ... Ukraine had L-39 before the start of the NWO - 32 units, they were also in Eastern Europe (17 units), more recently, only in the arsenal of the Czech Republic there were 77 of them, another 52 in the arsenal of Romania and Hungary ... Perhaps, with some strain, the L-39 can be used as light attack aircraft, they can carry: approx. 250 kg of bombs, 150 kg of guided missiles, 230 kg of unguided missiles, although there are only 2 bomb racks ... It is possible that Ukrainians can use MiG-21 from Romania (36 pieces), from Croatia - 9 pieces, etc. ... Our Air defense destroys them from a long distance, and therefore does not specify the type of aircraft ... And with regards to the state of Polish aviation, then, apparently, almost all of their aircraft, which were of Soviet origin, have already been handed over to Ukraine by the Poles. .. Only this can explain the attempts to purchase aircraft in Korea (FA-50), moreover, these are machines with very modest performance characteristics .... The Poles do not have aircraft, in any significant quantity, apparently this is a fact ... And then that Ukrainian pilots have to fly on ancient rubbish, once again shows that there are no real combat aircraft, still Soviet-made either in Ukraine or in Eastern Europe ...
    1. +2
      18 October 2022 12: 14
      You are mistaken, the Poles don’t have planes ... They have at least 16 F-50s
      1. -1
        21 October 2022 12: 27
        I just noted that "in any significant number, the Poles" do not have aircraft .... After they handed over, apparently, almost all Soviet aircraft to Ukraine, it is so .... And 36 combat F- 16 and 12 combat training, this is more than modest with Polish ambitions, then the Poles have long expressed their dissatisfaction with the capabilities of the F-16 https://vz.ru/economy/2007/8/30/105127.html... Therefore, Poland buys, anyhow, what kind of aircraft in Korea, and this is a fact.
  21. +2
    17 October 2022 19: 57
    This article, yes acc. units of the Moscow Region ... Maybe they will get an idea of ​​​​the issue being supervised.
  22. +4
    18 October 2022 01: 52
    hi
    The article is actually one of the best in the cycle and "has no analogues" in Runet.

    The closest option is the unfinished series of articles by Alexander Bulakh "The Sky of Nezalezhnaya Nenka" in the journal "Aviation History".
    But everything ended for Bulakh in 2018 (magazines are no longer published even in electronic form, and the VK page has not been updated since 2020, no matter what happens ...), but Bongo has all the data fresh!
  23. +2
    18 October 2022 10: 07
    It is strange that the Ukrainians still do not attract helicopters to fight against Germany ... the same mi-2s. But I do not rule out that soon they will guess to put machine guns on training Yak-52s or the same Su-29s and shoot down martyrs with them
  24. +1
    18 October 2022 17: 49
    I just can’t understand how we got 300 downed aircraft when you know that even if you add up all the possible ones, including the unusable ones, then 200 won’t come out ...
  25. +2
    19 October 2022 21: 55
    "Ukraine uses Azerbaijani fighters
    According to sources in the aviation industry, Ukraine has begun using fourth-generation MiG-29 multirole fighters of the Azerbaijani Air Force.
    As we know, four aircraft were previously under repair at the Lviv State Aviation Repair Plant.
    After the necessary repairs, the fighters were repainted in the colors of the Ukrainian Air Force. Currently, the vehicles are used to counter Russian aviation, as well as to destroy ground targets of the RF Armed Forces. In particular, the fighters participated in a successful counteroffensive in the Kherson direction.
    Moreover, this is the first time that modern fighters were provided to Ukraine by non-NATO member countries and they were used not as "donors" for Ukrainian aircraft, but as full-fledged combat vehicles." ©
  26. -2
    26 October 2022 01: 34
    I will speak without getting up from the couch.
    The state and actions of Ukrainian aviation can be characterized by the phrase "Something is flying there." There are very few planes that fly alone, and more inflict harassing blows - "mosquito bites". Judging by the fact that the air defense systems and fighters periodically show them shooting down someone, something Ukrainian is flying. I think they do not work at all on Bayraktars and Hymars shells. I think it is unlikely that Ukrainian aviation has a strong influence on the course of battles. Art and tanks decide more here.
    Talk about the F-16 is just empty talk. I doubt very much that a pilot can be retrained so quickly from a flashlight or dryer to a fighting falcon. Firstly, the artificial horizons of aircraft with directly opposite principles of indication. Secondly, tidy with alarm clocks against the glass cockpit of the F-16. And there are many such differences. In fact, the development of the F-16 is the development of a fundamentally different aircraft. But that's not all. It is not enough to overtake the F-16 with the help of trained pilots to Ukrainian airfields. It is necessary to retrain technicians (or bring in NATO ones). All these parts and equipment are needed. After all, F-16s are accustomed to clean and well-kept NATO airfields. Will they be enough for a long time at the running ukrodroms?
    It is much easier for the Americans to overhaul and reconstruct airfields, bring in their own technicians and their equipment, bring planes with NATO crews, than train pilots in embroidered shirts.
    That is why, I think, it is not serious to talk about Ukrainian F-16s. No, stray NATO F-16s with NATO crews and freshly painted tridents may well appear in the sky of Ukraine. But there won't be many of them. And if they use ukrodroms, then only as jump airfields
  27. 0
    5 December 2022 09: 54
    Quote from buv59
    There were still enough aircraft in storage, but their technical condition is highly questionable. In the conditions of NWO, their restoration is very problematic, it is possible only for spare parts.


    This is just your IMHO. They were restored. It was where and to whom. Including using fragments of downed / shot down aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    It's just that our military department has taken the fashion (from Western partners) to record as losses not only downed (completely destroyed), but also downed (simply damaged) enemy aircraft.
    I note that it is rather difficult to distinguish a downed from a downed one in real combat conditions.