France will transfer obsolete Crotale NG air defense systems to Ukraine

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France will transfer obsolete Crotale NG air defense systems to Ukraine
Tractor with a Crotale NG SAM launcher on a trailer


The French leadership continues to provide military-technical support to the Kyiv regime. In order to restore air defense, they now plan to transfer anti-aircraft missile systems to him. According to the press, these may be Crotale NG products. Several of these systems will be taken in combat units of the French army.



Reaction to events


France's new plans in the field of military-technical assistance to Ukraine were announced on October 12 by President Emmanuel Macron. In an interview for the France 2 TV channel, he drew attention to the latest Russian strikes on critical Ukrainian infrastructure and announced new measures to support the friendly regime.

According to E. Macron, in the coming weeks, the French leadership is going to send radar stations and anti-aircraft missile systems to Ukraine. With their help, it is planned to protect Ukrainian facilities from Russian missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles. What kind of radar and air defense systems will be transferred and in what quantities, the French president did not specify.

On the same day, new information about future deliveries was published by Sky News. Citing an unnamed source familiar with the situation, it writes that Crotale NG-type air defense systems will be sent to Ukraine. Such systems will have to intercept targets at short ranges and medium altitudes. The number of vehicles preparing for the transfer is unknown.

Information about the radar station for Ukraine is not yet available. However, it should be remembered that the Crotal air defense system has its own detection and tracking locators. The President of France could have had in mind this particular air defense component.


Launcher Trailer Under Deployment

It should be noted that Crotale NG will be only the second French-made air defense system transferred to Ukraine. Previously, France supplied only Mistral man-portable anti-aircraft systems. Whether such deliveries will continue will become clear later.

Decades in service


The current Crotale NG air defense system is distinguished by its considerable age, and its story dates back to the late sixties. It was then that the French company Thomson-Houston (now Thales Group), together with the American Rockwell International, commissioned by the South African Army, began developing a new air defense system. The project bore the working designations Crotale ("Rattlesnake") and R440.

In the early seventies, Crotal was tested and entered service with the South African army under the name Cactus. In addition, the French armed forces became interested in him, and the development of two new projects started. It was required to create a land mobile complex for air defense units of the Air Force and a unified ship system. In the middle of the decade, the Crotale and Crotale Naval air defense systems entered service.

In the late eighties, a deep modernization of the complex called Crotale NG (Next Generation) was carried out. While maintaining the basic solutions, all the main components were replaced, which led to a significant increase in performance characteristics. In 1990, new missiles and other means went into series. The transition to Crotale NG continued until the middle of the decade.

Crotal systems were actively exported. For half a century, almost a dozen countries have acquired them. Almost all customers bought products in the original configuration, and special modifications were created for Saudi Arabia and South Korea. In addition, China and Iran have set up production of their unlicensed versions of Crotale.

The last modernization of Crotale took place in the early tenth years. Its main goal was the introduction of new means of detection and tracking. Other systems and weapon have not undergone major changes. Combat performance has generally improved.


According to known data, now the French Air Force has only 12 Crotal-NG air defense systems. The staffing of the complex includes one command post and two launchers. The air defense systems are in service with four squadrons responsible for the protection of large air bases. Each such unit has three complexes.

Earlier, the French Ministry of Defense planned to gradually abandon the Crotale NG complexes due to moral and physical obsolescence. The write-off of the last products was scheduled for 2025. Now, apparently, such plans will be adjusted. Several air defense systems are planned to be sent to Ukraine, and the number of equipment in service will be reduced - or it will be completely abandoned.

Technical features


The Crotale NG, designed for the French army, is a mobile short-range air defense system designed for long-term work in position and protection of important objects. It includes a command post in a container version on a truck chassis, two trailers with launchers and radar equipment, anti-aircraft missiles, and various auxiliary equipment.

The launcher is made in the form of a full-rotation module mounted on a trailer. On the sides of the module there are oscillating installations for missile containers, a tracking radar antenna and an optical-electronic station are placed in front. On top of the module is a foldable surveillance radar antenna.

The search for air targets is carried out using a Ku-band radar with a passive phased array. The tracking range of a typical target is 30 km. Regular OLS, in the absence of interference, allows you to monitor at distances up to 18-20 km. Target tracking during firing is carried out by an S-band Doppler radar; range - 20 km. All data from surveillance equipment is transmitted to the command post, where it is processed and issued to operators.


Launcher simulates combat mode

As part of the Crotale NG project, a new VT-1 anti-aircraft missile was developed. This product is 2,3 m long and 165 mm in diameter in a cylindrical case with "duck" planes. Starting weight - 73 kg. The product has a standard layout with a bow placement of guidance devices, a warhead in the center and an engine in the tail.

The missile does not have a homing head and is controlled by radio command. The automation of the ground part of the air defense system monitors the target and the missile, and also generates and sends commands to the ammunition to correct the course. One complex can fire only one target at a time. Productivity - up to 4 starts per minute.

The VT-1 is equipped with a high-explosive directional warhead weighing 15 kg. An infrared non-contact fuse is used, which works at a distance of up to several meters.

The maximum flight speed of the VT-1 reaches 1250 m/s. Launch range - 10 km, altitude - 6 km. The missile is capable of hitting targets flying at speeds up to 500 m/s. Available overload - 35 units.

Deprecated Help


At the time of its appearance, the Crotale NG air defense system was generally a successful and modern model. When working as part of a layered air defense system, he could show high performance and fully realize his technical potential. However, a lot of time has passed since then, and the complex, despite all the updates, is morally obsolete. In this regard, in the foreseeable future, France was going to remove it from service.

Now the plans have changed - several air defense systems will be decommissioned right now and transferred to Ukraine. And such a step is no different from previous episodes of assistance. A foreign state, assuring the Kyiv regime of good intentions, transfers unnecessary obsolete equipment with low performance to it. At the same time, the French Air Force is freeing up space in parts for the purchase of modern air defense systems.


Launchers without missiles. You can consider radar and optical means

Obviously, such supplies will not help the Ukrainian regime in any way, and this result is predetermined by several factors. First of all, this is a small amount of technology. France can provide no more than 12 complexes - 12 command posts and 24 launchers. This is simply not enough to make up for the air defense losses suffered in recent months. Also questionable is the possibility of organizing cover even for certain important areas, incl. with the involvement of the remaining air defense systems of other types.

It should be noted that Crotal-NG is a short-range system and has height restrictions. It can work effectively only in layered air defense, performing the functions of the last line of defense. The absence of other radars and air defense systems reduces the achievable effectiveness of defense, and also increases the risks for the complex itself.

Of great importance is the obsolescence of technology. A technically advanced military, such as the Russian one, can easily detect the positions of such an air defense system, and then suppress or destroy it. At the same time, work in a stationary position becomes an additional factor threatening the security of the complex.

The predictable finale


Thus, the foreign state once again solves its political and technical problems at the expense of the Kyiv regime. Ukrainian formations are once again promised real weapons, but again we are talking about a small number of outdated systems with limited characteristics.

The future of the Crotale NG air defense systems planned for delivery is generally predictable. Individual samples may become trophies of the Russian army, while others will be destroyed or disabled. The Kyiv regime would not gain any benefit from such a technique, but the French "virtues" do not seem to care.
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  1. -15
    16 October 2022 06: 08
    France will transfer obsolete Crotale NG air defense systems to Ukraine

    ***
    - "On you, God, what is worthless to me ..." -
    (used in the meaning of "about almsgiving what you don't need yourself")...
    ***
    1. +12
      16 October 2022 06: 25
      And what, with this air defense system, only crows can be scared? It will go well against Geraniums. The capacitance of this author knows no bounds.
      1. +24
        16 October 2022 06: 55
        Quote: ASAD
        The capacitance of this author knows no bounds.

        The author does not have enough knowledge and analytical skills for more. No.
        In any case, the Crotale NG air defense system is no worse than the domestic Osa-AKM military complex.
        1. +6
          16 October 2022 12: 24
          Yes, an analogue of the Wasp. The past modernization in the 90s is not an extra detail. Each such installation is a headache for our videoconferencing.
          1. +5
            16 October 2022 14: 51
            According to the author, the last modernization took place in the tenth years! Probably not a completely useless system!
        2. -1
          16 October 2022 17: 25
          An analogue, if you forget that the "Wasp" is self-propelled and can swim. But the French do not know how to do either. It’s especially bad for ukrov that the trailer takes time to remove it from the jacks, attach it to the tractor and pull it off - these 5-10 minutes may simply not be.
          1. +3
            16 October 2022 20: 17
            Why swim or be able to quickly change position for a complex that will guard a stationary object, for example, a thermal power plant or a railway junction?
            1. 0
              16 October 2022 20: 52
              Because those who stand still do not live long.
            2. +1
              17 October 2022 12: 23
              The whole strategy of UkrPVO is hunting for aircraft and stalling from the launch point. They don't really protect things.
              1. +3
                17 October 2022 13: 34
                Airplanes? You don't confuse anything? Maybe cruise missiles? Aircraft provide maximum tactical support at the front, and long-range missiles are launched from a safe distance. The front of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is saturated with MANPADS, and the Krotals, in theory, should get positions on the hills, near the flight routes of cruise missiles and shahids. The same Calibers "like" to fly along riverbeds to make it difficult for them to be searched by radars.
          2. +3
            17 October 2022 01: 16
            You seem to be not very well informed. The towed version of the Crotal, intended for the protection of air bases, was produced in a very limited series. The main part of the complexes of this family on armored chassis, there are also floating ones.
            1. -2
              17 October 2022 09: 13
              What should be the armor to withstand an explosion of 50 kg. TNT?
              1. +2
                17 October 2022 12: 24
                Geranium cannot hit such objects
                1. -1
                  17 October 2022 20: 56
                  And you don’t need to hit, an explosion of 50 kg. TNT, at a distance of 20 - 30 m, is guaranteed to disable electronics.
              2. +2
                17 October 2022 13: 12
                Why are you doing this? Or does the Thor or Strela-10 armor provide such protection? "Wasp" 'if not armored at all.
                1. 0
                  17 October 2022 13: 46
                  By the way, the latest versions of the Shells are armored
        3. +5
          16 October 2022 22: 09
          I can even imagine how such articles are written: facts are taken that cannot be disputed (usually performance characteristics), but then, since it is impossible to praise the enemy, the words obsolete, rubbish, useless, etc. are inserted into the text ... The result is an article about "outdated trash "upgraded in the 10s request
      2. -6
        16 October 2022 07: 22
        ASAD - plus Geranium low flight speed, coupled with the ability to actually fly over the very tops of trees, which increases the likelihood of enemy air defense passing, or the elimination of air defense at the location.
        1. +8
          16 October 2022 07: 39
          It doesn't fly over treetops, for obvious reasons.
          1. -7
            16 October 2022 08: 47
            Maxim G is not a problem, it will be necessary, and it will fly a couple of meters from the ground! There is nothing technically difficult about this.
            1. +6
              16 October 2022 08: 49
              Will not)).
              Because there are no sensors for that.
            2. +4
              16 October 2022 09: 03
              Quote: Thrifty
              There is nothing technically difficult about this.

              All you need is a radar / lidar that controls the surface, powerful enough to not miss the wires. And ideally a detailed 3D map of the surface to use the terrain and for navigation.
              1. PPD
                +1
                16 October 2022 10: 00
                And as in a joke, and with all this we will try to take off.
                And all this is "powerful enough" for one time.
              2. +9
                16 October 2022 10: 18
                There is not even a camera and a data processor, because a single-board autopilot from what happened to be found on alik is mastered in Iran. You will also shove the radar station there with a separate data processor (will Texas Instruments supply you with electronics? Or will we solder it on Soviet-Russian microcircuits into a whole block weighing like that a kilogram of 5?).

                The meaning of Shahid 131 and 136 is that this is an oak system that can be done on the knee in hundreds every month, with a penny price, the level was knocked down from the air defense system - it’s more expensive for them. And at the same time, the arrival is noticeable due to the large warhead of 36/50 kg.

                If you fasten a camera, radar, transmitters and a bunch of other things, then the warhead will shrink to 2-3 kg.
                1. +2
                  16 October 2022 11: 09
                  Quote: donavi49
                  You will also shove the radar station there with a separate data processor (will Texas Instruments supply you with electronics? Or will we solder it on Soviet-Russian microcircuits into a whole block weighing like that a kilogram of 5?)

                  Better get a ratheon

                  It seems that the "sarcasm" tag was omitted in the previous post.
              3. +4
                16 October 2022 10: 21
                Quote: Negro

                All you need is a radar / lidar that controls the surface, powerful enough to not miss the wires. And ideally a detailed 3D map of the surface to use the terrain and for navigation.

                Yes, all this is used on other UAVs and KR. Only Shahede 136 has none of this, so it flies at altitudes above a hundred meters. He is an extremely primitive drone, this is his plus and minus. Plus simplicity and low cost of production, minus maximum visibility
          2. -1
            16 October 2022 11: 52
            Maxim G
            as far as I read Geranium can fly at a height of 40m in fact it is almost close to the concept above the tops of trees
            1. +4
              16 October 2022 12: 20
              The ground surface is not level, there are hills, ravines, trees, etc.
              This UAV has no sensors to control such a flight.
              1. 0
                16 October 2022 12: 34
                no, you're wrong. there are at least 2 types of programmable drones, and there are also those with television control
                1. +4
                  16 October 2022 12: 40
                  First, we are talking about Geranium-2.
                  Secondly, at low altitude, the speed of the UAV is generally low, so that the operator can control the drone without crashing into the ground, hence the vulnerability.
                  1. 0
                    17 October 2022 12: 27
                    Geranium is cheaper than all means that can hit it ..... and a group launch for a specific target will greatly overload any air defense. Plus, you can attack from different sides.
            2. 0
              16 October 2022 20: 22
              There is such a thing on the shahidomoped: BMP390 precision sensor for altitude, barometric pressure and I2C altimeter from Aliexpress. This is not an ultrasonic sonar or a laser rangefinder - it is impossible to carry out a flight around the terrain with its help. You can fly roughly at a height of 100 m, so as not to crash into high-rise buildings.
      3. +4
        16 October 2022 07: 57
        Quote: ASAD
        It will go well against Geraniums.

        Why only Geranium? Normal military complex, newer Arrows10 / Wasps / Thor. It works quite well against any low-altitude threats - UAVs, KR, helicopters, rooks.
    2. +2
      16 October 2022 10: 42
      Quote: Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
      “On you, God, what is worthless to me ...”

      How heart warming are such articles!
      France will hand over outdated air defense systems. The fact that "several such systems will be taken in the combat units of the French army" is not of interest to the authors of such articles (in drill parts of a potential enemy, of course, one junk).
      Therefore, I sleep peacefully. From article to article, the thesis runs like a red thread that only obsolete, decommissioned, rubbish and crap are supplied to the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the catchphrase in each publication that "this will not help Ukraine."
      I am fully confident that nothing threatens our aircraft, missiles and UAVs. I wish the same for everyone else.
    3. 0
      16 October 2022 18: 07
      Well, France is transmitting, but what is the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation doing ??? Will they look like cuckolds again??

      At the same time, Calibri and Iskanderi are throwing millions of dollars worth of railroad transformers.

      Why does Caliber or Iskander not fly there every time when an airplane is landing from such systems?

      If an aircraft of any state transfers such weapons to an enemy country, then they will intervene in this conflict and they are a legitimate target, am I right???
      1. +1
        16 October 2022 18: 39
        How do you know what's on the plane? Maybe there's toilet paper...
        And the destruction of a US aircraft, for example, could provoke the US entry into the war. Do we need it?
        1. 0
          16 October 2022 19: 01
          Then observe with satellites and UAVs and immediately after unloading and taking off the plane, make a strike. And on the Polish-Ukrainian border, spies should work and track any such cargo.

          If they started the NMD with massing a blow from Belarus and cut off Ukraine from the Polish border, there will be no such stands now.
          1. 0
            17 October 2022 16: 20
            Start some kind of strategic game and help .. But in life everything is a little more complicated and the "satellites" are not all-seeing and the spies are not all-knowing. Moreover, the enemy is smarter than the algorithm
  2. -5
    16 October 2022 06: 39
    What are you talking about, these air defense systems will not even see the giran
    1. +3
      16 October 2022 06: 50
      You can take a closer look, he served in air defense for a very long time, probably something has changed a lot.
      1. -5
        16 October 2022 07: 29
        ASAD - in fact, the same ubblas appeared relatively recently, and in the world they were ignored for a long time, considering them "weapons of popuases", but it turns out, in vain. With proper use, this is a good weapon, cheap and effective, for example, work on the uk-roina power system. In addition, mobile air defense systems and ZSU "sharpened" for work specifically on kamikaze drones have not been created in the world. Their undoubted advantage is their relatively low price, and the possibility of flying at a minimum altitude, which complicates their defeat.
      2. +1
        16 October 2022 09: 58
        Quote: ASAD
        You can take a closer look, he served in air defense for a very long time, probably something has changed a lot.

        Shahed 136 highly visible UAV
        The main problem is in the engine, it is in the truest sense of the word from a moped, air-cooled. Accordingly, it is extremely hot, and the radiator is corner reflectors , which makes them as visible to the radar as possible. Everyone has already written about the noise. Shaheeds with their engines just anti-stealth, are most noticeable for all technical means of reconnaissance.
        It flies at low altitudes, but not at extremely low ones. He does not have the means to detect obstacles, so you need to fly at heights that change by hundreds of meters. Accordingly, Shahed is detected at a distance of more than 50 km without any problems at all, there are no problems with destruction either.
        1. +3
          16 October 2022 14: 58
          In addition, this UAV is a VERY large target (wingspan 2,5 m.) It can be hit by any heavy machine gun like Utes or the "old man" DShK.
          1. 0
            16 October 2022 18: 09
            The rate of fire is not enough to hit from the DShK ...
          2. 0
            16 October 2022 20: 29
            Every third cartridge is a tracer, and you can at least place the defensemen with Kalash anywhere. Heard a moped - shoot ahead, focusing on tracers. Even optics is not needed, only operational notification: I heard a moped, didn’t knock it down, so pass the coordinates, azimuth and estimated course.
        2. +1
          17 October 2022 16: 31
          Yes Yes! This morning in Kyiv, everyone saw how Geranium was discovered 50 km away! And for some reason, Stinger did not hit. And Shahed flew and hit. Don't bring the storm.
          1. 0
            17 October 2022 16: 42
            Well, look how prepared people shoot down Shahed. All according to the textbook.

            On the video from Kyiv, a residential building was hit, obviously not the target of the shahid, the video on which the police swear, Shahed obviously got in the wrong place. Stingers missed - it happens.
        3. 0
          18 November 2022 15: 11
          Quote from cold wind
          Accordingly, Shahed is detected at a distance of more than 50 km without any problems at all, there are no problems with destruction either.

          And with the detection and defeat of such targets, many radars and air defense systems have problems, including the most modern ones.
      3. PPD
        0
        16 October 2022 10: 04
        something must have changed a lot.

        Nothing new, basically.
        I just forgot a little over time about the EPR, the horizon, etc. drinks
    2. +6
      16 October 2022 07: 16
      "these air defense systems will not even see the giran"
      Why so? Is she, this geranium hypersonic?
      1. -4
        16 October 2022 07: 43
        Quote: Alexander123
        Why so? Is she, this geranium hypersonic?

        The range of operation and body materials of the geranium make detection difficult. hi
        1. +6
          16 October 2022 07: 53
          Quote: Cheshire
          Operating range and body materials of geraniums

          I think I heard this nonsense about bayraktars. And a geranium with an engine from a moped, yes, stealth for sure.
    3. +12
      16 October 2022 10: 21
      What do you mean they won't see it? Have you even read the article? If you haven’t tried it, then I would like to remind you that Crotal is an air defense system with radio command guidance over a radar or an OPTICAL channel. The NG version has an optical channel with a good Tales thermal imaging sight - that is, he will see Shahid at night.


      And about the radar will not see, I would not be so categorical. And yes, the CR is a typical target for them - therefore, in addition to the Shaheeds, the CR will also be shot down.
      1. +5
        16 October 2022 11: 16
        Campaign one of the real consequences of the SVO for the world arms market will be the processing of software and optics for any machine gun in general, and even more so an artillery combat module to obtain anti-aircraft capabilities. Accordingly, in the next conflict involving NATO, every truck will be shot down by mavics and martyrs.
        1. +2
          16 October 2022 11: 28
          Take below. Such devices will be even for machines. The US Army has already purchased Israeli SMASH 2000 sights. SMASH 2000L / 3000 plans
          1. +1
            16 October 2022 11: 59
            Hmm, you're right, didn't think about that. The SSO system on the new cartridge should already have similar capabilities with its computerized sight. For Shahid, the caliber is small, but for a mavic, it’s quite enough if the operator catches a crow. And for Shahid, you need to put some kind of Raytheon Pike in the grenade launcher, they have also been dealing with the issue for several years.
            1. +4
              16 October 2022 12: 20
              There are plenty of solutions, from the level of the department to the brigade. About 5-7 years ago, the Americans took up the issue of anti-drone systems very seriously, while our military was laughing out loud at toys with aliexpress. In Israel even earlier. The same SHORAD is already traveling in Europe.
              The situation when a penny drone and artillery of the 40s can destroy an infantry company does not suit them very much.
              1. +1
                16 October 2022 12: 25
                Quote from cold wind
                The same SHORAD is already traveling in Europe.

                Well, actually, the theme of Short range air defense has not disappeared anywhere since the days of grandfathers with quadromounts. Just a new level and new goals.
            2. 0
              16 October 2022 19: 03
              This scope captures the target, looking at its shape, thanks to the microprocessor which processes the image, tracks it and when the barrel is pointed directly at the target, it shoots automatically. There are also such sights for hunters.
  3. +8
    16 October 2022 06: 43
    [quoteSome samples may become trophies of the Russian army, while others will be destroyed or disabled.] [/ quote]
    Comrade Ryabov changed the methodology. From rusty and useless to trophies...
  4. +3
    16 October 2022 07: 18
    Kirill, there can’t be a launch range of 10 kilometers, this is the target engagement range. If the missile flies further without hitting the target, then the self-liquidator should work. This complex has one minus - it is towed, essentially stationary. For the same ubvla, a good target, because after shooting all the missiles, he himself cannot quickly leave the position. And the tandem of the tractor and the complex is an excellent target, visible from afar, which can still be hit on the march.
    1. +5
      16 October 2022 08: 39
      Quote: Thrifty
      This complex has one minus - it is towed, essentially stationary.

      In fact, booked Crotals were built many times less than self-propelled ones.
    2. 0
      17 October 2022 16: 33
      Self-liquidator worked under the Klitschko bridge in Kyiv
  5. -7
    16 October 2022 07: 21
    Utilization of French military equipment. So they would not have found a place in France for recycling, and then it did not bring tangible profits. And so they put it on Ukraine, in order to blackmail Ukraine later. In general, NATO countries use Ukraine to the fullest, and they are happy!!!!
  6. -4
    16 October 2022 07: 45
    They will shove in to protect Lvov and Odessa from Shahid-mopeds... Well, this is also the question, it seems to me that a shahid-moped is cheaper than this Grunt's rocket. Moreover, it is not a fact that he will see a plastic UAV with a minimum of pieces of iron at all.
    In short, it would be better if they didn’t exist, but they won’t make any weather either. And they won’t be put on the front - that’s where they, with an active radar, will be clicked out for sure
  7. +1
    16 October 2022 08: 32
    The author below criticizing writes that this is rubbish compared to other air defense samples. And secondly, who will repair, why our air defense is not very effective, but the equipment simply breaks down, and one thing broke 12 tori, and 20 remained, and another thing when there are only 12. experience is expensive
    1. +5
      16 October 2022 09: 06
      Quote: alexey_444
      and the equipment simply breaks down, and one thing broke 12 tori, and 20 remained, and another thing is when there are only 12.

      Let me remind you that these deliveries of 6-12 pieces have already replaced the entire Ukrainian 152mm artillery with 155mm. At least all self-propelled. Now, it seems, they are starting to replace air defense.
      1. -4
        16 October 2022 11: 09
        Are you laughing or something, the Ukrainians had more guns and self-propelled guns than in all of Europe combined, including the Soviet legacy in Eastern Europe, I am silent about air defense, there were ten times more s-300s than Peter from the Poles. Nobody says that this is good, but the volumes are scanty.
        1. +3
          16 October 2022 11: 28
          Quote: alexey_444
          Are you laughing or something, the Ukrainians had more guns and self-propelled guns than in all of Europe put together,

          This is when experts from Z-telegrams count. In reality, there were about 200 acacias and several dozen Msta and Hyacinth. Now there are approximately one and a half hundred 155mm self-propelled guns of various types.

          Air defense actually has not yet begun to deliver. So, the first samples for development.
          1. 0
            17 October 2022 08: 37
            Only our guns are repaired in Ukraine and imported ones are carried for three nine lands, we beat the Germans and for this reason they beat them, while their panther was brought to Germany, repaired, brought, although the best tank was in the Second World War. How many German trucks left are motley, too many spare parts are not unified.
            1. +1
              17 October 2022 13: 13
              Do you want to talk with me about the Second World War or about 2022? If about the Second World War, then let me remind you that the Soviet cargo fleet of the second half of the war was mainly from the state of Indiana. Nothing, somehow lived.
              1. 0
                18 October 2022 07: 49
                What is the volume of Aieriko trucks in the first place and the complexity of the equipment in the second, then it could be repaired on the knee, and the Volga car with a machine gun didn’t go anymore, the chemistry of oils was not developed with us, it didn’t go. The more different types of weapons the Ukrainians have, the better it will be for us, everything breaks, and junk more often and spare parts figs you will find
                1. -1
                  18 October 2022 07: 55
                  The more different types of weapons the Armed Forces of Ukraine have, the worse it will be for "you", I assure you. Of course, it would be even worse for "you" if the Armed Forces of Ukraine were re-equipped with NATO models uniformly and systematically, within the framework of some kind of meaningful technical policy, but here we already have what we have.
                  1. 0
                    18 October 2022 08: 29
                    If the Ukrainians didn’t have a Soviet legacy and only NATO weapons, the war would have ended long ago, the panther is a good tank, but there were an order of magnitude more of our 34s. The west rogue they don’t have as many weapons as Soviet ones in Ukraine. You have to think strategically, a big war is inevitable and it’s better with losses but to be able to destroy NATO equipment than not to be able to. The only choice is to surrender and turn into a Sudan
                    1. -2
                      18 October 2022 09: 04
                      Quote: alexey_444
                      If Ukrainians did not have a Soviet legacy

                      If the Ukrainians hadn’t suffered from garbage for at least these 8 years, not to mention these 30 years, then they wouldn’t even get into them, I assure you.
                      Quote: alexey_444
                      but there were an order of magnitude more of our 34s

                      The production of armored vehicles of the Reich and the USSR is approximately the same (difference of 20 percent, EMNIP).
                      Quote: alexey_444
                      they don’t have as many weapons as there were Soviet ones in Ukraine

                      )))
                      You are greatly mistaken. Ukraine, by military standards, is a small player on the level of Greece.
                      Quote: alexey_444
                      the only choice is to give up and turn into a sudan

                      Well, Sudan is Sudan.
                      1. -1
                        18 October 2022 12: 34
                        If Ukraine had not suffered from garbage? After Kievan Rus, Ukraine became a suburb and, according to the mentality of people, it will remain so. Do not worry, the state on a lie will never be strong. unfortunately, while there is the United States, if Ukraine does not follow the example of Georgia, it will be destroyed, such as Somalia or Palestine. Panther 6 thousand, T-34 under 60 thousand, but they also had t3, almost like our t60 or t70 in terms of quantity and quality. On Wikipedia, Ukrainians lost 250 tanks, there are lies and there are big lies of statistics. In the West, there are a lot of things in numbers in the same Greece, but in fact? The Ukrainians have and shoot, and they have everything in storage.
                      2. +1
                        18 October 2022 14: 23
                        Quote: alexey_444
                        a state on lies will never be strong

                        )))
                        In Russia, this is a big surprise for many.
                        Quote: alexey_444
                        if he does not take an example from Georgia, it will be destroyed, such as Somalia or Palestine

                        )))
                        Quote: alexey_444
                        Panther 6 thousand, T-34 under 60 thousand, yes, they also had t3, almost like our t60 or t70 in terms of quantity may be equal and quality

                        Comparison of the T-60 with the T-3 speaks for itself. Where are you going in general?
                        Quote: alexey_444
                        In the West, there are a lot of things in numbers in the same Greece, but in fact?

                        In fact, as much as they want, so much will be. They want so far quite badly, I must admit.
                      3. 0
                        18 October 2022 15: 03
                        They almost didn’t notice the word, there was such a Guderian commander when he had experienced crews on t3,4, anti-tank artillery, sappers teased other commanders that they couldn’t do anything with t34, and when experienced ones ran out near Tula, artillery and sappers squealed about the miracle of the Russian weapon, this is by the way. Lies are confused with passionate truth, Bandera’s people, who kill children by their feet on the corners of huts, will never build a harmonious dash and a strong state. and even more so.
  8. +5
    16 October 2022 08: 54
    There were already a bunch of similar articles - oh, the West is pushing nonsense.

    And then somehow it turned out that it was not nonsense. And our planes do not particularly risk flying into Ukraine, and gunners note the increased level of defenders.

    And about old stuff - so logical. everyone does it.
  9. +3
    16 October 2022 09: 11
    I heard ... I heard about the French air defense systems "Crotale" and "Roland-2" ...! These are one of the most famous air defense systems of the late 20th century! And about the VT-1 missile, which was called hypersonic ... ( then it was "fashionable" to declare missiles with a "decent" supersonic speed: 1200-1300 m / s - "hypersonic"! Zura 57E6 ("Shell") and 9M340 ("Pine-R") did not "avoid" this either.. But was "Crotal", for example, very "successful"? Somehow I don't remember "outstanding" results or "glory" like that of "Shell"! Yes, they fought a little ... shot down from time to time ... but they were not a "hit"! Or about "Cactus" -a ... I have a slightly different infa in my memory ... "Crotal" was not called "Cactus" from the very beginning! The story is "simpler"! There was an air defense system " Crotal" is in service with South Africa ... there were problems with maintaining the complexes in a combat-ready state due to "anti-racist" sanctions from the "West"! So it was necessary to "modernize" air defense systems in South Africa so as not to "lose" them! "Modernized" air defense systems and got the name "Cactus"!
    1. +4
      16 October 2022 10: 31
      Crotal is one of the main Iranian air defense systems (Tagib and derivatives are still being produced, but this is more Chinese Crotal).

      Crotal is the basis of the military air defense of the PLA - HQ-7. Actively exported.


      As for Roland, Scholz should be thanked that he has not yet discovered Roland deposits in distant warehouses. The Roland system is quite evil and is quite capable of not only standing on the defensive, but also supplementing the Strela-10/Osu in the military air defense, simultaneously increasing the percentage of losses of the Su-25/Ka/Mi kabrating.
    2. 0
      18 November 2022 15: 18
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      was it very "successful", for example, "Crotal"?

      Crotal in the UAE in the 90s merged Toru-M1 outright.
  10. +1
    16 October 2022 10: 12
    The presence of OLS increases the efficiency and survivability of this product.
  11. -3
    16 October 2022 10: 24
    Thus, the foreign state once again solves its political and technical problems at the expense of the Kyiv regime.
    . Just an option, get rid of what they do not like.
    1. +4
      16 October 2022 11: 03
      You mean not nice? If anything, there is nothing to replace these Krotali-NG. wink

      Now, if the old ones were given, especially 1 versions, then yes. But there would be a number of them (at least 20 batteries could give out).


      They now have Mistrals, and mostly cars for export, and in the army old ones from the installation. Here they have 0 like in the photo for example.


      VL Mica - 0 for France, Botswana, Thailand and the Saudis have it. They will not be able to immediately give birth for themselves or Ukraine, this is only in the fall of 23 years.



      European S-400 - Sump-T. In France and Italy in homeopathic quantities, it is unlikely that even a scrapped battery will go into transmission. New ones are made for a long time and expensively, because they are not very much bought.


      As a result, France is left with MANPADS and a very small number of Sump-Ts, which will now have to be pulled apart for more air bases.
      1. +4
        16 October 2022 11: 21
        Quote: donavi49
        European S-400 - Sump-T. In France and Italy in homeopathic quantities, it is unlikely that even a scrapped battery will go into transmission.

        In Italy, 2 batteries are on duty, one is training, one is in reserve. So, in principle, they can give one, especially if not to the front, but to a large city. France has 10 batteries.
        1. +4
          16 October 2022 11: 39
          Quote: Negro

          In Italy

          Italy has 6 batteries. Each has 4 launchers of 8 missiles.
          5 batteries (4 combat + 1 training) are in Italy. 1 in Turkey
          1. +3
            16 October 2022 11: 49
            Quote: Liam
            Italy has 6 batteries. Each has 4 launchers of 8 missiles.

            You are right, you messed up
            4 × operational batteries, 1 × training battery, 1 × in reserve

            And what is she doing in Turkey?
            1. +3
              16 October 2022 11: 55
              Quote: Negro

              And what is she doing in Turkey?

              And this is from 2015. In connection with the Syrian war. Remember Erdogan whined before the epic with the S-400 about selling Patriots to him. The United States refused, but NATO undertook to cover Turkey for air defense systems of member countries by rotation. Now, it seems, the Italian complex was moved to Kuwait after the Yemeni attacks drones to cover gas terminals.

              By the way .. the Italians say that in the July package of assistance to Ukraine there was also a certain amount of MLRS
              1. +3
                16 October 2022 12: 02
                Well, that is, the Americans can bring the Patriot to Kuwait and release the European complex, if such a desire suddenly arises.
                1. +3
                  16 October 2022 12: 08
                  Quite. But it’s much easier to remove one battery directly from Italy. Talks about the supply of this air defense system to Ukraine have been going on since June-July, when the Americans promised NASAMS. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ukrainian calculations have already conducted a training course on them
                  1. +4
                    16 October 2022 12: 21
                    Wait and see. If so, the first complex with missile defense capabilities will be a new step in demilitarization and denazification and a new crushing defeat for the damned NATO bloc.
                    1. +3
                      16 October 2022 12: 31
                      At the last Ramstein, they promised a full-blooded multi-level air defense system. It would be strange that there were no missile defense systems, given that everything is boiling precisely because of missile attacks
                      1. +2
                        16 October 2022 12: 51
                        Promise - not toss bags. Let's see what will happen in fact on the anniversary of the start of demilitarization. In principle, the wait is not long - unless someone is demilitarized himself.
      2. -3
        16 October 2022 11: 33
        Who threatens French territory?
        All of them, gay people under the umbrella of minke whales, relaxed ... but it's cheaper.
        1. +5
          16 October 2022 12: 29
          Well, they thought that the future was in trade and small expeditionary operations. Therefore, the fleet, the Air Force and those areas where good exports were developed were developed. The ground armies were thoroughly destroyed. Now they are throwing billions into the ground armies. But here, again, inertia, the visible result will be closer to the 25th years.
          1. 0
            16 October 2022 12: 54
            The rooster also thought ... but got into the soup.
            If a big war happens ... as various "dreamers" say, there will be not much and not the most advanced one left.
            Their predictions are easier to believe, in fact, than the peppy speeches of politicians.
      3. +1
        16 October 2022 19: 35
        Quote: donavi49
        European S-400 - Sump-T.

        Isn't it too much boasting for the frogs?

        Maybe it's still closer to the Buk-M3

        Features:
        Target engagement range, km 2,5-70
        Height of hitting the target, km 0,015-35
        Maximum target speed, m/s 3000
        Number of target channels of the division 36
        Maximum speed of missiles, m / s 1550

        Performance characteristics SAMPS / T:

        The range of destruction of air targets:
        - airplanes - 3-100 km.
        - ballistic missiles - 3-35 km.
        The height of the destruction of air targets - up to 25 km.
        The detection range of targets such as TBR - 600 km.
        The number of missiles on PU - 8
        The number of simultaneously aimed at the target Zour - 10.
        The maximum flight speed of the missile attack system is 1400 m / s.
        The average flight speed of missiles - 900-1000 m / s.
  12. -1
    16 October 2022 10: 55
    Be that as it may, this is a working air defense system capable of spoiling a lot of cows for us. And they need to be destroyed.
  13. 0
    16 October 2022 11: 55
    Again, Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners will be retrained, now on crotal, they will become polyglots directly, English, Swedish, French wassat am
    1. +7
      16 October 2022 12: 25
      So these are different complexes and different anti-aircraft gunners. At the moment, out of 100% confirmed:
      Iris-T - 1 battery is already operating, 1 is being prepared before NG, 2 at 23.
      Nasams - 2 batteries soon, 6 at 23.
      Spada-Aspid - unnamed number, coming soon.
      Hawk PIP3 (a well-modernized old man with an updated missile) - 4 batteries (and they are heavy 2 radars and 4 launchers with 3 missiles for each) the decision has been made, training for at least a month, maybe up to NG and they will manage.
      Crotal-NG - an unknown number, but no more than 12 batteries.
  14. -2
    16 October 2022 12: 50
    Quote: Negro
    Quote: ASAD
    It will go well against Geraniums.

    Why only Geranium? Normal military complex, newer Arrows10 / Wasps / Thor. It works quite well against any low-altitude threats - UAVs, KR, helicopters, rooks.

    Well, I would not offend Thor with such comparisons))
    1. +4
      16 October 2022 13: 30
      The latest modifications of the Thor are somewhat longer-range, but also much heavier. Early plus or minus the same in terms of range and height. The electronics in the latest crotals are noticeably smarter than the Soviet ones.
  15. +1
    16 October 2022 16: 50
    Another agitprop template about "useless" weapons supplied by the West ... winked
  16. 0
    17 October 2022 12: 59
    Crotale NG single channel for missiles?
  17. -2
    17 October 2022 16: 12
    Western sponsors give the Kyiv regime such obsolete equipment that the Russian army is "approaching" the capital further and further. And Kirril never tires of writing about how pointless it all is...
  18. 0
    17 October 2022 23: 46
    Quote from cold wind
    it is in the truest sense of the word from a moped, air-cooled. Accordingly, it is extremely hot.

    It is hot for sure, but the thermal energy is painfully small. With its horsepower, the power is orders of magnitude less than the aircraft or KR, respectively, less heat generation.
    The UAV is small, and all air defense systems are being trained for larger targets. From small arms it is also not a problem to shoot down. The problem is placing shooters on such a huge perimeter.
    In general, the defeat of such targets is not yet guaranteed.
    1. 0
      18 November 2022 15: 33
      Quote: BastaKarapuzikI
      The UAV is small, and all air defense systems are being trained for larger targets.

      The same Thor was tested on the Malyutka ATGM and Grad MLRS shells.
  19. 0
    18 October 2022 00: 17
    NG is next generation, modernization of 2010.
    No one has newer.
  20. 0
    18 November 2022 15: 31

    Negro (1)
    16 October 2022 13: 30
    The latest modifications of Thor are somewhat longer-range, ...

    And they also have twice the height, four times the radar of the target channels, the maximum speed of the targets hit is 700 m / s versus 420 m / s for the Crotal NG.
    The electronics in the latest crotals are noticeably smarter than the Soviet ones.

    Only now, the FAR for the missile guidance station was never mastered. As they were with the "plates", so they remained with them. In the XXI century.
  21. 0
    7 January 2023 10: 18
    Quote: Tucan
    Quote: ASAD
    The capacitance of this author knows no bounds.

    SAM Crotale NG is no worse than the domestic military complex "Osa-AKM".

    Which is actively used by our troops - there have already been several TV stories about Wasp.