Automatic mortar 2B9M "Vasilek" in the Special Operation

69
Automatic mortar 2B9M "Vasilek" in the Special Operation
Mortar 2B9M in self-propelled version, owned by NM LPR. Photo Telegram / "Military informant"


Since 1970, the 82-mm towed automatic mortar 2B9 "Vasilek" has been in service with the Soviet and Russian armies. He had special combat capabilities and characteristics, thanks to which he still remains a relevant and effective weapon. Products 2B9M are also used in the current Special Operation. They are used both in the original towed and self-propelled versions.



Mortars in combat


As far as we know, mortar units of the ground forces of the Russian army and the republics of Donbass have been participating in the Special Operation since its first days. Their task is to destroy the enemy and his objects by fire, as well as to support our other units. For this, the entire range of mortar systems is used, incl. towed products "Vasilek" of the current version 2B9M.

Such guns are used as part of the 9K21 mobile mortar systems. In addition to the mortar itself, this complex includes a transport vehicle of the Ural-4320 type, means of communication and control, as well as ammunition. Depending on the situation, "Vasilek" can be towed by a transport vehicle or transported in a body. The machine is also carrying the calculation of guns and boxes with ammunition.

To improve combat performance, the mobile complex can turn into a full-fledged self-propelled mortar. In this case, "Cornflower" is placed in the back of a car in a combat position, and the fire is fired directly from the car. Due to this, the time to prepare for firing is reduced, and leaving the position is also accelerated.


Mortar 2B9 "Cornflower" of the first version. A characteristic casing for cooling the barrel is visible. Photo by Wikimedia Commons

Recently, the Zvezda TV channel showed a similar self-propelled mortar belonging to one of the artillery units of the DPR police. It is reported that this version of the 9K21 complex shows high fire performance. Its speed is also confirmed. A well-coordinated crew solves a typical fire task in 7-8 minutes, after which it leaves the position and does not fall under a retaliatory strike.

Obviously, in terms of firing range or the power of the 82-mm Vasilek ammunition, it is significantly inferior to other domestic mortars. However, it occupies its own niche and complements systems of its own or larger caliber in solving part of the fire missions. In essence, it takes over some of the work and makes field artillery a more flexible tool.

Half a century in service


Even during the Great Patriotic War, designer V.K. Filippov proposed the idea of ​​an automatic mortar, which has obvious advantages over existing systems. Soon the development of a similar project began, and in 1946 the first experimental "casemate automatic mortar" KAM of 82 mm caliber appeared. This gun was intended for the artillery of fortified areas. The development of such a mortar was delayed, and it was put into service only in 1955.

Already in 1954, under the leadership of V.K. Filippov at the Design Bureau of Transport and Chemical Engineering (KB TXM), the development of a field modification of the KAM mortar under the designation F-82 began. This product was tested at the end of the decade and received a recommendation for adoption. However, for various reasons, the army did not receive a new mortar on a towed carriage.


Modern 2B9M. Photo Vitalykuzmin.net

Work on the topic of automatic mortars continued only in the second half of the sixties. Their result was the appearance of the product 2B9 "Cornflower". In 1970, he was put into service, and soon the re-equipment of mortar units began. A few years later, a modernized version of the 2B9M mortar was developed. It was distinguished by a simplified design and showed the same combat characteristics.

The bulk of the Vasilkov was produced for the Soviet army and was intended for use at the battalion level. They armed the corresponding platoons of mortar companies from the motorized rifle, airborne, and other battalions. In other platoons of these companies, other 82-mm systems were used.

2B9 mortars were exported to a limited extent and entered service with friendly countries. In addition, Hungary was given documentation for the independent production of such weapons. In connection with the collapse of the USSR, the list of foreign owners of "Cornflower" has increased significantly.

The combat use of automatic mortars began in 1979-80. in Afghanistan. "Cornflowers", along with other mortars, were used to solve all regular tasks and, on the whole, showed themselves well. At the same time, ways to further improve performance were proposed. The main was the installation of a mortar on a tractor and its use as a self-propelled system.

Products 2B9 (M), which remained in the post-Soviet space, were actively used in all major local conflicts. First of all, these were two Chechen wars. Since 2014, the Ukrainian army has used its "Cornflowers" against the unrecognized republics. At the same time, part of its mortars, as well as other weapons and equipment, became trophies of the militia and police. Apparently, the self-propelled 2B9M, recently shown by the DPR mortarmen, previously belonged to Ukraine.


Side view. The cassette tray and shutter box are clearly visible. Photo Vitalykuzmin.net

Technical features


Product 2B9(M) is a towed mortar, however, it has a number of features that are not typical for this class of artillery. Due to this, high technical and operational characteristics are provided, as well as special combat capabilities are achieved.

"Vasilek" is built around a smooth 82-mm barrel of medium length. In the basic version of the 2B9 mortar, the barrel was placed inside a metal casing filled with water for cooling. The upgraded 2B9M uses air cooling, for which fins are provided on the barrel. The barrel is rigidly fixed on the trunnions and does not roll back when fired.

Behind the barrel is a bolt box with a movable bolt. The shutter rollback and reloading are carried out due to the energy of the powder charge. The bolt is fed forward by means of return springs placed next to the barrel. The trigger mechanism allows you to shoot single shots or a burst of 2-4 shots.

On the right side of the bolt box there is a tray for receiving a cassette with mines. Regular loading of the mortar is carried out by a four-shot cassette. If necessary, muzzle loading is possible.

Unlike other mortars, Vasilek is built on a full-fledged carriage. The upper rotary part of the carriage has guidance drives, recoil devices for the barrel and a balancing mechanism. Provides horizontal guidance within 60 ° and vertical from -1 ° to + 86 °, so that the mortar can fire direct fire. Guidance drives - manual. The PAM-1 sight is used.


Mortar NM DPR prepares a cassette with mines. A frame from the reportage of the TV channel "Zvezda"
The lower carriage machine is equipped with a front base plate on a jack and two movable beds. There is a wheel drive with a torsion bar suspension. In a combat position, the mortar rests on a plate and beds; wheels are hanging out. Towing is carried out with flattened beds and a raised plate, the barrel back. The design of the carriage allows transportation on the highway at a speed of 60 km / h.

Mortar 2B9 (M) is capable of using all domestic 82-mm mines. First of all, these are high-explosive fragmentation rounds of the O-832 series. Also, the ammunition includes smoke, lighting, propaganda, etc. mines. For direct fire at armored objects, a cumulative mine is proposed. The maximum firing range, depending on the type of ammunition, is 4270 m.

The cassette feed mechanism for mines and the automation of the gun provide a technical rate of fire of 170 rds / min. Practical significantly lower - no more than 120 rds / min. If it is necessary to fire for a long time, even a trained crew can do no more than 50-60 rounds / min.

Realized potential


Automatic mortar 2B9 (M) "Vasilek" is radically different from other systems of this caliber. During its development, fundamentally new solutions were used, which made it possible to obtain a sharp increase in performance. As a result, Vasilek outperforms other 82mm mortars in terms of firing performance, and the results of such firing bring it closer to more serious 120mm systems, although with limitations in terms of range or power of an individual mine. With all this, 2B9 is quite simple to operate and use.

The unusual mortar did not immediately enter service with our army, but then it got into units and has been in service for half a century. "Cornflowers" were repeatedly used in real operations and confirmed the potential of the embedded solutions. As the events of recent years show, the automatic mortar is still relevant and capable of making a great contribution to the overall results of the work of field artillery.
69 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -3
    26 September 2022 05: 37
    Thanks to the author for the article, but it's a pity that there are few technical details
    1. +12
      26 September 2022 06: 00
      Thanks for that? For water?
      In fact, "Cornflower" is used very limitedly due to the baggy loading, heavy weight, operational complexity and capriciousness.
      1. +6
        26 September 2022 06: 48
        Excuse me, I'm not an artilleryman, but what's the baggy?
        If you can release 40-50 minutes per minute, and even from the hull of the same motorcycle league and dump from position, isn't this an obvious plus of the system?
        1. +2
          26 September 2022 06: 52
          Of course, it won’t make it difficult for you to find a photo of the "Cornflower" used in the NWO?
          As for baggy, look how much extra gestures you need to make compared to the "Tray".
          1. +1
            26 September 2022 08: 23
            Here is a video, APU shoots.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq1Jzn-NpFA

            They fired in a minute with a little about two dozen mines with the transfer of fire in range and elevation, they would have fired from a motorized league and managed to get out of the shelling.
            Moreover, I will not call the calculation professional, there is a lot of fuss.

            Again, if they fired from a motorcycle league, they could work out one target with 3-4 dozens of mines per minute and leave the position.
            1. +3
              26 September 2022 08: 50
              Quote: demiurg
              Here is a video, APU shoots.

              Are we discussing weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine? In the Russian army, "Cornflower" is not popular. No.
              1. -1
                26 September 2022 09: 05
                Once upon a time, in the year 2000, I read the exact opposite assessment in Fido-no on military.ru. As far as I understand, Vasilki are pushing 120-mm mortars out of the BTG. These are "new trends". For a company, Vasilek is already too bulky and unacceptably heavy. However, it seems that our companies do not have any mortars for the state.
                1. +5
                  26 September 2022 09: 19
                  In the DShBr in the company, 3 infantry platoons, 4th mortar platoon. AGS, Tray. I won’t say anything bad about Vasilko, but imagine what kind of ammunition you need to carry to him. Just carry, because it’s impossible to drag. The tray is carried by three soldiers, plus each of the platoon carries two mines. Not much, but with good preparation, you can accurately throw three-4 mines. The mortarman and I generally fired, I landed on a boulder, in front of the slope, rested on a stone, between my legs, I held the barrel, the second direction and forward. Nothing, they hit. Only without additional charges)))). Meters for 400-600. the company has something to answer, albeit with a small BC. Cornflower itself is heavy, plus a lot to drag. If you put it on tracks, this is already a homemade product, although successful, but not massive.
                  1. +1
                    26 September 2022 11: 19
                    Yes, I feel that you had "fun" mom, don't worry ...
                    The DShBr is generally a separate conversation .... but in the motorized rifle brigade in the states that I saw, there are no Trays in the companies. And it is not clear if they are at all, if there are 120-mm mortars in the battalion. There seems to be no mixed version, 120 mm and 82 mm. Cornflowers, of course, were not made for mouths, we have 82-mm mortars from the beginning of any battalion. Before the start of the Second World War, they should have made a 60-mm mortar for companies, but it didn’t work out. But it would be possible to consider for the Vasilek company on some self-propelled base.
                    1. 0
                      26 September 2022 14: 37
                      should have made a 60-mm mortar

                      50 mm. And they shouldn’t have, but they did and widely used during the Second World War.
                      For the "squad-platoon" link, 37-mm mortar-shovels were planned and implemented, but they did not "play" at all due to absolutely no efficiency at all.
                      1. +1
                        26 September 2022 14: 42
                        50-mm (already two samples) were accepted into the companies for lack of 60-mm. For some reason, Shavyrin could not cope with the 60 mm.
                      2. 0
                        26 September 2022 15: 04
                        In those years when the spacecraft was equipped with mortars, the issue of mandatory equipment with a caliber of exactly 60 mm was not and could not be. Well, or I beg you to explain where this strange statement comes from, that, allegedly, Shavrin could not create 60 mm, so he made 50 m. Why, in your opinion, should he have been faced with the task of creating a 60-mm mortar?
                      3. 0
                        27 September 2022 11: 06
                        Shirokorad mentions these works. The French had a 60mm mortar.
                        Here's what we found right off the bat. Not only group D dealt with them.
                        http://www.war-russia.info/index.php/nomenklatura-vooruzhenij/46-sukhoputnye-vojska/artilleriya/minomety/1074-76-mm-batalonnaya-gornaya-gaubitsa-obr-1937g-35-k-6
                2. -2
                  6 December 2022 11: 06
                  well, Vasilka will be good if you put him on an armored personnel carrier and make an LMS for him, then he will be able to work as a support vehicle for assault units
                  1. +1
                    6 December 2022 12: 12
                    About the need for SDA is correct, but about the installation on an armored personnel carrier is not entirely true. The fact is that cassettes with mines for firing require preparation, and even prepared mines in cassettes must be placed somehow. The armored personnel carrier has a limited volume, and if placed deep in the hull, then the possibility of direct fire will be lost, and it is inconvenient to prepare mines and lay out cassettes.
                    For "Cornflower" you need a solid "Ural" chassis from "Phlox", there is a support, and a place for placing cassettes, and in addition there is an armored cab with a machine gun.
                    1. -2
                      6 December 2022 12: 55
                      Well, this is a technical point, in principle, this is already a question for developers. Just four-wheel drive will be more stable. Below is a photo with placement on the armor. It’s just that I’m looking at taking into account the CBO, and this is the speed of production and the pace
                      1. +1
                        6 December 2022 13: 08
                        As far as execution, as far as I understand, this is a very important point. When a mortar is placed on top of the armor, there are inconveniences in working with ammunition and its limitations. Well, there is no place on the armor for racks with ammunition. Therefore, the installation "on the armor" does not go into a large series. And if you put it on an inexpensive Ural chassis, like on the Phlox, then there will be a lot of space and serial production will go as quickly as possible.
                      2. -2
                        6 December 2022 14: 24
                        it’s possible in the Urals, but then the question arises with booking .. otherwise it will be like with Zushka on Kamaz trucks, everything seems to be beautiful, but a few queues and that’s it, the car is not combat-ready
                      3. +1
                        6 December 2022 14: 48
                        The ZU-23-2 works with direct fire, at the risk of getting under return fire, and the mortar from closed positions. For "Cornflower" direct fire is the exception rather than the rule. And even when installed "on the armor", the mortar will still be located openly, there is no escape from powder gases. The problem is different, in the short firing range of 4,2 km and the absence of cumulative fragmentation ammunition against heavy equipment and field fortifications. The modernized Chinese Norinco CS-SM1 (W99) has a range increased to 6,2 km and it is on a car chassis!
                      4. -2
                        6 December 2022 15: 01
                        well, improved mines have a range of 6 km, but the question is whether Vasilek can use them .. I personally see him either in the opornik in camouflaged positions to slow down the enemy’s advance, but low maneuverability is a minus .. or just installing on an armored personnel carrier or MCI with The SLA, so that in the future when they attack to support the troops from a small distance, the pace decides there ..
                      5. +1
                        6 December 2022 15: 12
                        Once again, from the very beginning, now for the second round. You have to imagine the process of preparing mines and cassettes in order to understand how damn inconvenient it is to do it on the roof of the armor or inside a cramped armored personnel carrier. And mines and cassettes, respectively, need to be prepared a lot, otherwise there will simply be no point in an automatic mortar. Either you prepare from 4 to 15 cassettes and fire in one fire raid, or there is no need to fence the garden, an ordinary mortar will suffice. Or you lay out the cassettes on the ground, or on a wide truck bed in cabinets and racks. Or there is nothing to mess with the capricious automation of 82-mm 2B9, but install, as is already customary abroad, a 120-mm mortar module with a modern recoil system inside the body of an armored car and forget about other options.
                      6. -2
                        6 December 2022 16: 32
                        this is already a feed mechanism .. Yes, and it is difficult to imagine goals that require a single use of more than 10-15 minutes.

                        Those. you can safely prepare several cassettes and feed them through the upper landing hatches.
                      7. +1
                        8 December 2022 10: 38
                        There are just targets, the rate of fire and ammunition are not enough for them.
                      8. -2
                        8 December 2022 13: 42
                        Well, these are the standards of the lunar crater, now it is necessary to increase the accuracy of shooting, and for this you need optics, FCS, and drones. Not to mention the restrictions on ammo.
                      9. +1
                        8 December 2022 13: 55
                        The fact of the matter is that the 120-mm Phlox SAO can be said to have no restrictions on ammunition due to the large amount of ammunition carried. And "Cornflower" on the same base will also not have such restrictions, of course, within the capacity.
                        There are two limitations for the massive use of the 82-mm Vasilka, these are the absence of a cumulative fragmentation mine and a short firing range. The Chinese figured out the firing range, you can copy it, and you can make a mine even faster.
                        And the 120-mm Nona and Phlox have increased accuracy, there are mines with ready-made rifling and guided munitions.
                      10. -3
                        8 December 2022 14: 35
                        I don’t mind doing it on the basis of a phlox and a truck ... I’m in favor of checking the effectiveness, and for this we need tests at the training ground and the front
                      11. -1
                        20 December 2022 15: 03
                        And why do we need here "as is customary abroad a 120-mm mortar module with a recoil system" in the presence of Nona for a long time in different versions?
                      12. 0
                        20 December 2022 15: 12
                        It was written as a contrast to the rapid-fire "Cornflower". That is, if you put it with an inconvenient supply of ammunition and a small ammunition load, then there is nothing to bother about, there are other solutions. The point is precisely to be able to prepare the cassettes in advance, place them on racks and in cells with moisture protection and with the possibility of fast feeding.
                      13. -1
                        21 December 2022 11: 11
                        Well, they (82mm and 120mm) are "a little different" and "a little different". Developed abroad and 82-mm breech-loading mortars with recoil devices. TMS-81, for example. It's not automatic, though. But for self-propelled guns, this is still much more logical than "simply" attaching some kind of ordinary mortar to the back. The Airborne Forces seemed to want a similar thing.

                        As for Vasilko, I suspect that in "Carnation" or Nona it would be possible to "arrange" everything you have listed. Even with a decrease in the number of mines in the cassette. Nobody set such tasks.
                      14. 0
                        21 December 2022 13: 00
                        Thank you, I understand who I'm dealing with, I don't dare to bother anymore. It turns out that I am dealing with a person who does not represent the principle of operation of the 2B9 mortar at all.
                      15. 0
                        22 December 2022 08: 53
                        But the Chinese have a good idea. They don't talk, they do. Even in the "big jeep".
              2. -2
                26 September 2022 09: 08
                For the same reason why Msta-B and Msta-S exist.
                Cornflower is 5-10 times more expensive than a tray.
              3. +1
                2 December 2022 14: 57
                Well, great! If you don't use it, then it's bad! In the Russian army, unfortunately, some do not even use their brains, let's leave it like that! We need to learn the best from the enemy, especially if they are dill, we have a similar mentality with them in many respects, and if they have found a good solution, we must adopt it!
        2. +1
          26 September 2022 07: 07
          my vus is a mortar gunner. urgent passed in ur in the far east. I had to march to drag bm82 70km. it is possible, albeit difficult. but the cornflower will have to be abandoned in case of damage to the conveyor. Oh, and increased ammo consumption. He's spitting out the entire cassette at once. and from bm82, at the demobilization test, I put the first one on target and this is not an accident, but 1.5 years on combat duty.
      2. 0
        27 September 2022 12: 26
        Well, if there are details - describe, so your comment is such water, about nothing
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      26 September 2022 16: 49
      Excellent mortar. Requires trained calculation and good maintenance. It can be on any base. Not to disassemble into components - it's a pity. You can’t drag it through the mountains, but there is an ordinary one.

  2. +4
    26 September 2022 06: 06
    Excellent weapon. In Iraq, the Americans captured a decent number of them, in fact, they captured almost all the weapons there.
    They put Cornflowers on their Hummers, on armored personnel carriers, mainly M-113. They were used to support the protection of columns, to quickly transfer support for mobile groups and fight partisans. These are the Americans.
    We should have the same, Not just heavy artillery.
  3. +10
    26 September 2022 06: 14
    So I didn’t understand, the barrel rolls back or not?

    . The barrel is rigidly fixed on the trunnions and does not roll back when fired.


    . recoil devices for the barrel and


    In general, a typical Kirilryabov.
  4. +4
    26 September 2022 08: 53
    2B9 "Cornflower" should be mounted on a chassis similar to what is planned for the Phlox self-propelled guns. Then there will be support, a large portable ammunition load, ease of loading and the ability to quickly leave the position.

    Perhaps the barrel should be lengthened and strengthened, as the Chinese did.

    On the chassis of the self-propelled guns "Phlox" there is also a machine gun for protection. A very well thought out plan.
    In addition, it is very desirable to have cumulative fragmentation mines to destroy enemy armored vehicles and field fortifications with a canopy. All the conflicts in which the Soviet Union took part and the Vasilek was used were local and there was no need to fight armored vehicles, then they abandoned the cumulative mine, but it seems that it was premature.
    So far, the enemy is using this weapon more than the Russian Armed Forces and the LDNR.
    1. 0
      26 September 2022 09: 07
      https://topwar.ru/160468-chem-horosh-samohodnyj-minomet-2s41-drok.html?ysclid=l8id9xthrq382825377
      But there is NOT Cornflower. Although breech-loading.
      1. +1
        26 September 2022 09: 26
        The self-propelled guns "Drok" have a slightly different purpose, there is an advantage in mobility and the ability to use it as an escort vehicle. As it turns out, the rear services lack the flexibility of thinking to request such a vehicle to the staff to escort convoys, it is easier for them to put a defenseless fighter in the back of a ZU-23-2 in the old fashioned way.
        1. -2
          26 September 2022 11: 25
          I already read that there is no sense in ordinary mortars, because they fly back very quickly. On the other hand, "there is an opinion" that it is always necessary to dig in. But digging a trench for a car takes much longer.
    2. -1
      26 September 2022 09: 13
      82mm mortar paws, in principle, are not needed. Of course, with them, the accuracy will be higher, and the suspension will live longer, but if you really need it, you can do it without paws. On the basis of MTLB or Dozor, it is quite possible to make a highly mobile self-propelled gun.

      Cumulative mines for a mortar do not make sense. Low projectile speed and, accordingly, no flatness. It is easier to disable the BTT OF.
      1. +2
        26 September 2022 09: 20
        Actually, I wrote about firing cumulative mines with a canopy, be so kind as to read what was written more carefully. And how does it not need support? Without it, there will be no accuracy and rate of fire, and the chassis will be destroyed, if not immediately, then a little later.
        And MTLB is certainly more passable, but more expensive, and it is very inconvenient to both load and transport ammunition. If you use such a powerful tractor, then the gun can be larger, there is no need to exchange for an 82-mm mortar.
  5. +7
    26 September 2022 09: 49
    How to once again remember a grateful topic? Ask Kirill Ryabov!
    wink
    In addition to the mortar itself, this complex includes a transport vehicle of the Ural-4320 type.

    If the 2K21 index is already used, then it would not be superfluous to make a reservation that this particular complex includes the 2F54 transport vehicle. And this is not a Ural-4320, but a GAZ-66. It is clear that in modern conditions it is being replaced with what is actually in the troops, but then this is no longer the 2K21 complex.
    They armed the corresponding mortar platoons mouth

    Battery, Cyril. In artillery, for a very long time, not companies, but batteries.
    Mortar 2B9 (M) is capable of using all domestic 82-mm mines. First of all, these are high-explosive fragmentation rounds of the O-832 series. Also, the ammunition includes smoke, lighting, propaganda, etc. mines.

    Well, firstly, there are no high-explosive fragmentation mines at all in the 82 mm caliber, since their high-explosive action is approximately zero. All 82-mm mines of the main purpose are fragmentation mines.
    Secondly, in the ammunition load of the 2B9(M) mortar specifically, there is a single 3VO1 shot, which includes a fragmentation mine 53-O-832DU, an M-6 fuse, the main propellant charge 54-Zh-832DU and an additional 4D2. This is due to the peculiarities of cassette loading and automation systems. And no smoke, lighting, propaganda, etc. min, which, by the way, is one of the main claims to this product.
    No, purely technically, you can load and shoot through the barrel, for example, with a smoke mine. But first you need to get shooting tables somewhere, which is somewhat problematic due to their absence. what
    And yes, by the way
    For direct fire at armored vehicles, it is proposed cumulative mine.

    What-what??? belay Do we have a cumulative 82 mm mine in service? Seriously?
    Well, okay, Ryabov...
    A feature of battalion-level artillery weapons is their versatility. This is the main means of fire destruction of the battalion commander, which is subordinated directly to him and, as a rule, is never taken by the chief of artillery to solve the problems of the senior commander.
    Mortar batteries of motorized rifle battalions should be able to do everything - to hit, and smoke, and illuminate, and move even through the forest, even along a mountain path, and equip positions for themselves almost anywhere.
    And just these requirements "Cornflower" meets poorly.
    The 2B9 mortar is certainly a significant milestone in the history of Russian artillery, but it still shouldn’t be praised excessively. The experience of operating automatic mortars revealed certain questions not only to the power of 82-mm mines, but also to the reliability of cluster loading, mortar mobility, and also to the ideology of automatic firing of mortars as such.
    In general, the officials who made the decision to exclude "Vasilok" from the states of the motorized rifle units probably had quite good reasons for this. And the fact that it is still used ... So why is it not used today. And not always from a good life.
    1. +2
      26 September 2022 13: 32
      If you think about it, then the LShO-57 and the 40-mm AGS "Balkan" should have come to replace the "Cornflower", neither of which appeared, but they hastened to get rid of the "Cornflower". And in China, on the contrary, they modernized, and not excluded from use.
      1. +1
        26 September 2022 14: 34
        AGS "Balkan", as far as I know, successfully passed the state. tests, now the only question is its purchases for the needs of the Ministry of Defense. But I'm not omniscient, so I could be wrong.
        At one time, the Ministry of Defense was not interested in the LSHO-57 as such, but its direct development is the 57-mm combat module in the Epoch BMP, developed in Tula. With him, everything goes according to approximately the same scenario as in relation to the "Armata", "Boomerangs", "Kurgans" and others like them. What is called, follow the development of events.
        1. 0
          19 October 2022 10: 11
          LSO was tested in principle and could be modified if required. Again, it is not entirely clear why it is needed in the presence of AGS and Cornflower. The 40mm grenade launcher can still be carried by hand. It won't work with LSHO. The BM Epoch is probably the only armored zoo that still works.
          1. 0
            20 December 2022 15: 15
            And then, that the mines must be prepared, and in the prepared form, they must also be stored with protection from moisture. And the LSHO was conceived as an automatic weapon with ready-made ammunition.
    2. 0
      19 October 2022 10: 07
      Gee 82-mm cumulative from the B-10 or B-11 without recoil, I don’t remember;))) I don’t presume to predict what will happen if THIS is loaded into a mortar.
      Yes, they are slobs, who expelled Vasilki from the staff of the battalions. However, like 82-mm mortars in general. I think it would not be so difficult to develop smoke and other mines that could be fired in cassettes. It’s just that they once again tried to score on 82 mm, leaving them only for a few.
  6. -5
    26 September 2022 10: 51
    Quote: VicktorVR
    So I didn’t understand, the barrel rolls back or not?

    . The barrel is rigidly fixed on the trunnions and does not roll back when fired.


    . recoil devices for the barrel and


    In general, a typical Kirilryabov.

    Well, give an example of some unparalleled model of artillery weapons, developed from scratch in the Russian Federation. You can't. Everything is the development of Soviet models, because there is a Soviet weapons school, but there was no Russian school, and there is none. And it is not expected in the near future. sad
    1. +1
      26 September 2022 14: 42
      give an example of any unparalleled model of artillery weapons developed from scratch in the Russian Federation

      220/300 mm MLRS 9K512 Uragan-1M, for example.
  7. 0
    26 September 2022 14: 37
    If you put it on the chassis, then it’s like NONA ... with the ability to shoot normally and direct fire too.
    1. +1
      26 September 2022 15: 44
      But nothing that his powder gases are free, as they say, come out? Nona's chassis are obviously unacceptable for him, only open installation is possible, as on the "Phlox" or on top of the MTLB. There is a project "Drok" for installation in the tower, already without automatic firing, but he did not have time for this conflict.
      1. 0
        26 September 2022 15: 48
        Well, how do uninhabited modules. AGS-17 is being installed.
        1. +1
          26 September 2022 15: 56
          But not in the tower, not according to the layout of Nona, but openly.
  8. -1
    26 September 2022 16: 51
    Quote: Bogalex
    give an example of any unparalleled model of artillery weapons developed from scratch in the Russian Federation

    220/300 mm MLRS 9K512 Uragan-1M, for example.

    They made me laugh. I said that all these systems are modernization and development. What's not clear???!!! sad
  9. +3
    26 September 2022 17: 00
    the weapon is so-so ... The mere fact that it has been designed for 30 years already says a lot. It would be smarter initially instead of the author. mortar to design a bus. 57mm grenade launcher! (57mm ammunition was then widely represented in the army) A kind of AGS-57 / LShO-57. It (in view of the unitary shot with a metal sleeve) is much safer to operate the "cornflower" with its cap loading. Not to mention the ease of use (AGS-57 weighs three times less than 2B9M! and shoots one and a half times further! At the same time, the number of explosives in the ammunition of the AGS-57 is one and a half times more), the possibility of safe installation on armored vehicles and in fort structures (for which "Cornflower" was originally intended). -- Think created in the 50's auth. a grenade launcher could become the main weapon of the BMP-60 in the 1s! - In this case, it would be a completely different Afghanistan ... And the capabilities of motorized infantry are completely different ...
    So, except as a mistake, I can’t call the adoption of this device into service ...
    1. +2
      26 September 2022 17: 46
      So it is true, but there were no ready-made ammunition for the 57-mm grenade launcher then, as they are not now. And there were 82 mm mines. And one can argue about the amount of explosive.
      Although LShO-57 in many ways looks preferable.
      1. +1
        26 September 2022 18: 41
        (WITH)"
        under the 57-mm grenade launcher then there were no ready-made ammunition, as they are not now.
        "
        57mm shells for the S-60 and ZSU-57-2 guns were then produced. It only remained to "attach" a new sleeve to them ... The caliber was completely mastered by industry.
        1. 0
          26 September 2022 19: 00
          Grenades are somewhat different in design from shells.
          1. +1
            26 September 2022 19: 21
            not fundamental. A lot of varieties of 57 mm shells were produced (that is, it was developed). Another couple of varieties for AG industry will easily pull.
  10. 0
    26 September 2022 17: 22
    Quote: Dimax-Nemo
    50-mm (already two samples) were accepted into the companies for lack of 60-mm. For some reason, Shavyrin could not cope with the 60 mm.


    And let it be.
    Those who did it, the most laudatory review was - "very good for strengthening the morale of our troops by conducting harassing indirect fire."
    Plus, it quickly became clear that for the full support of the BC, a calculation is required no less than that of the 81 mm.
  11. -1
    26 September 2022 21: 26
    Quote: demiurg
    Here is a video, APU shoots.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq1Jzn-NpFA

    They fired in a minute with a little about two dozen mines with the transfer of fire in range and elevation, they would have fired from a motorized league and managed to get out of the shelling.
    Moreover, I will not call the calculation professional, there is a lot of fuss.

    Again, if they fired from a motorcycle league, they could work out one target with 3-4 dozens of mines per minute and leave the position.

    Why do you write obvious things go ... otam?
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. 0
    27 September 2022 18: 44
    Judging by the description, this cornflower is complete garbage, which does not have any advantages over the usual 82-mm mortar. However, on the basis of its barrel, it is possible to develop an effective mobile mortar on an automobile chassis. Except for the time for paperwork, then in a month and a half you can make an effective weapon.
  14. 0
    14 October 2022 10: 11
    LShO-57 is better.
    Much lighter and faster.
    A 57mm grenade is inferior in charge to an 82mm explosive mine quite a bit.
    the weight of the VBOF-57 warhead is 2,6 kg (with a shot weight of 3,1 kg), which is 0,7 kg less than the weight of an 82 mm mine, but the shank "takes away" at least 0,3 kg from that mine, so the difference in effective mass is within 15% .
    In addition, the grenade is cylindrical, which means it has a greater lateral load - it goes deeper and loses less speed.


    In fact, LShO-57 (AGS-57) is an improved "Vasilyok" 2B9.
    Let's compare:
    System weight 630\250kg, device body weight 210\70kg;
    range 4270 \ 6000m (which is not surprising when comparing muzzle velocities 270 \ 330m / s).
    1. +2
      25 November 2022 21: 15
      There is one thing, however, the 82-mm mine caliber allows you to make more effective cumulative fragmentation ammunition and hit armored vehicles and field fortifications with mounted fire. It is more difficult to make an equally effective cumulative fragmentation ammunition in the 57-mm caliber. However, the problem is that there is neither a cumulative mine nor a 57-mm LShO.
  15. 0
    23 December 2022 11: 15
    Quote: Barberry25
    Well, these are the standards of the lunar crater, now it is necessary to increase the accuracy of shooting, and for this you need optics, FCS, and drones. Not to mention the restrictions on ammo.

    And all the children of the SLA and dronya will cost less or more than a hundred ordinary HE 76 mm shells or 82 mm mines?
    And all this standard for a target at 10 km without fire correction. And the targets on the battlefield are about 2-6 km away and the fire can almost always be corrected, and then the consumption of ordinary ammunition is reduced many times and is already calculated in tens and not hundreds.
  16. 0
    1 March 2023 23: 28
    Cornflower is a weight, but unlike "sledges" and "trays", which make sense as transportable / wearable, especially for actions in the forest, mountains, urban areas, then cornflowers must be put on the chassis, tracked and wheeled, depending on the specifics of the departments.