Reform of the Airborne Forces in the light of the experience of fighting in Ukraine and previous wars

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Reform of the Airborne Forces in the light of the experience of fighting in Ukraine and previous wars
Soldiers of the Airborne Forces land on the airfield in Gostomel, photo from video cameras of external control


In the battles in Ukraine, as in other wars before, the Airborne Forces covered themselves with unfading glory. The landing on Gostomel is the first air assault operation in the world since the American invasion of Iraq in 2003, moreover, it was carried out against an enemy potentially much stronger than the Iraqis.



Acting as light mechanized units, the Airborne Forces are actively advancing on the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass.

Nevertheless, the fighting in Ukraine again raised the question of the optimal appearance of the Airborne Forces.

Let us briefly list the problems that arose in connection with the large-scale use of the Airborne Forces in military operations.

1. The seeming senselessness of these formations as paratroopers in a war against an enemy with a regular army, air defense and aviation.

It is worth recalling here that part of the forces that were planned to be dropped near Kyiv from the air (presumably also near Gostomel) were preparing specifically for parachute landing and were even photographed at the same time. Today, knowing the situation there and then, we can only be glad that this ejection did not happen.


Military transport aircraft loaded with parachute platforms with airborne equipment, prepared for landing on the Gostomel airfield. The parachute landing was later cancelled. Photo: Razvedos

A sub-item of this problem is doubts about the meaningfulness of parachute landings as such.

2. Low survivability of airborne armored vehicles at a huge price. It is known that the BMD-4 has a cost approximately at the level tank T-90M. At the same time, it can be destroyed with the help of small arms fire. weapons. Despite the very light body, the BMD uses a very advanced fire control system by Russian standards and uses powerful weapons - 100-mm and 30-mm guns.


BMD - thin aluminum "armor", near-zero survivability, but there is no alternative, the car must be dropped with a parachute. In the photo - BMD-2, photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

BMD-4. It is used in Ukraine and shows itself well (except for survivability). The downside is that only 2 can be dropped from an airplane, not 3. Photo: Vitaly Kuzmin

3. Extremely unsuccessful states. The parachute squad is too small and weak to fight on foot, the Airborne Forces have few heavy weapons, tanks, large-caliber artillery in the states do not exist at all, however, now they began to attach it to the landing units or change the 122-mm D-30 guns to 152 mm "Msta-B" or others of the same caliber.

At the same time, the Airborne Forces, having weak strike capabilities and yielding to motorized rifles in defense, are a very expensive type of troops.

4. Post-Soviet inconsistency in technology. During Soviet times, the Airborne Forces could parachute not only their light armored vehicles and artillery, but also vehicles (GAZ-66 cars), and even multiple launch rocket systems. Now the Airborne Forces have a lot of vehicles that cannot be dropped by parachutes, there are tanks, but all light armored vehicles, namely parachuted, with weak armor. It is not clear how to rationally use all this.

In addition to these problems, we also list the traditional, widely known earlier.

5. Insufficient number of military transport aircraft for parachute landing of at least one division.

6. The lack of a clear concept of the combat use of troops, which require complete air supremacy over the areas of flight and landing, with the subsequent retention of such over the airborne combat area, and which are almost impossible to use against an enemy with at least some kind of air defense.

7. The need to keep in the Airborne Forces a very large number of selected personnel who are much better trained and more expensive than in the Ground Forces, whose potential cannot be fully realized due to the shortcomings described above.

8. The lack of airborne military air defense, despite the fact that they must act in isolation from the main forces.

Combined with all this, there is a deficit in the RF Armed Forces of infantry for operations in the mountains and in inaccessible terrain, as well as during the assault on cities.

Also, the RF Armed Forces lack airborne assault units and formations trained to operate in conjunction with helicopters and parachute from them.

All of the above factors have led to the fact that, as after every war in the past, the future of the Airborne Forces is now being called into question.

We will also call it into question, but at the same time it is necessary “not to throw out the baby with the water” and assess what of the existing potential of the Airborne Forces still needs and should be preserved.

Methodology


At the first stage, it is necessary to separate two different issues - the appearance of the Airborne Forces in general, and the form in which they are used in our wars. Let's explain.

The question of whether parachute landing in itself is outdated, as a way of bringing forces into battle or entering battle, is a question related to the appearance of the airborne forces in general. As well as the balance between paratroopers (if they are needed) and air assault troops on helicopters, the appearance of airborne combat vehicles, if they are needed, and so on.

But whether it is right to have these troops in such quantities as they are, and then use them as ordinary mechanized units, what to do when paratroopers need to be used as ordinary ground units, and so on - this is another question, and it will be considered from other positions.

Thus, starting from the questions listed above, we will form others, the answers to which will already allow us to determine exactly the shape of the future landing troops.

1. Is there any point in parachute landing at all? What forces? What is the composition of the landing troops? Where, why and under what circumstances? Is it possible to abandon it in favor of landing from helicopters?

2. After answering the first question - what should be the states of the Airborne Forces? Why?

3. After answering the second question - what should be the airborne armored vehicles? Why?

4. Does the Airborne Forces need non-landing equipment? What for?

5. How should the strength of the Airborne Forces and military transport aviation be related? An important question that theoreticians bypass: what comes first - the number of airborne forces or military transport?

6. Where and against what enemy should these troops be used? Under what conditions?

7. What weapon systems, in principle, should the landing force be armed with? Including air defenses?

8. How to divide human resources between the Airborne Forces and the SV?

Along the way, let's imagine how the subordination of airborne units should look in relation to other branches of the military and types of the Armed Forces.

Let's start with the first - the meaningfulness of parachute landing from aircraft as such.

To do this, we will first review how the practice of airborne assaults has evolved in the world.

Failed landings?


There are two myths related directly to parachute landing in war. First, it didn't justify itself. The second is a subspecies of the first, parachute landing, in principle, was sometimes meaningful in the past, but not in the performance of stupid scoops, which had only disasters.

Let us analyze both of them in their entirety, starting with the second, and from there we will come to the analysis of the first.

So, let us first list the main tactical parachute landings of the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War, indicating their outcome.

Landing at Teryaeva Sloboda, December 14, 1941, a detachment of I. Starchak from the 214th airborne brigade. Aviation was unable to ensure the release of all the planned forces, part of the forces landed under German fire (40 people) and died, the remaining 107 were engaged in sabotage activities for some time. Near-zero result, high losses, the reason is poor planning of the release.

Landing at the Arabat arrow (Vladislavovka), December 31, 1941, airborne battalion, commander Major Nyashin. The initial task was to capture the Vladislavovka airfield, during the landing process it was canceled and the task was set to blockade the Arabat Spit to prevent the Germans from retreating along it or the arrival of reinforcements along it. The landing was carried out in unsuitable conditions, with a dispersion of landing forces, part of the forces fell directly under fire upon landing.

It should also be noted that the battalion was only called that, in reality it was a detachment of about 100 people, who had to act in groups of 7-8 fighters.

Despite this, in chaotic battles with the Germans, the paratroopers managed to collect, advance to Ak-Monai (Kamenskoye), drive the enemy out of there and maintain control over the southern part of the Arabat Spit until other units approached. The task was completed.

Here it is necessary to make an important reservation, which, to one degree or another, was valid for all Soviet paratroopers - "task completed" does not mean that it was correctly set or meaningful. In the conditions of the USSR in the first half of the 40s, this was not always the case. But we answer the question of whether the parachute drop justified itself as a way to solve the task, that is, we proceed from the fact that the command wanted something useful, and we look at whether the paratroopers were able to provide something or not.

Landing at Gusevo, January 2, 1942, 1st battalion of the 201st airborne brigade, commander captain I. Surzhik. Task: cut the roads in the German rear. The battalion was supposed to operate as part of a single airborne operation, together with Major Starchak's battalion, to form the first echelon of airborne assault, the second in which was to be the 250th airborne regiment, landed on the airfield captured by Starchak's battalion. The task of all landing forces is to capture the bridge across the Shan River, cut the Medyn-Yukhnov highway together with other landing units, capture Myatlevo, cut the roads around Medyn and prevent the withdrawal of the 4th German army.

At the same time, it was assumed that the 43rd Army would enter the landing area on January 5th.

Due to the failure of the rest of the landing forces (landing in the Myatlevo area, see below), instead, the battalion drove the Germans out of the villages of Gribovo and Maslovo, the bridge had not to be held, but destroyed, after which the battalion held its positions for several days, repelling German counterattacks, then, by January 11, he retreated to the northeast, to Kremenskoye, and joined up with the advancing units of the 43rd Army. In general, it is impossible to call the battalion's actions a failure, but the operation in which it was supposed to act, simply did not take place in the intended form.

Landing in the area of ​​​​Myatlevo, January 3, 1942, a battalion (detachment) of Major Starchak, the task is to capture the Bolshoye Fatyanovo airfield, receive the main forces of the landing force as part of the 250th airborne regiment, then, having acted together with Surzhik’s battalion (see. above) under the command of Major N. Soldatov, who commanded all the landing forces and at the same time the 250th regiment, to fulfill the above tasks of the landing units.

From the very beginning, Starchak's detachment was sent into battle with an incomplete squad. The detachment completed the task of capturing the airfield, but it turned out that intelligence underestimated the strength of the Germans in the airfield area, and the weather service could not make a correct weather forecast. The detachment fought for the airfield all day on January 4 and was unable to ensure the safe landing of the group, which was supposed to prepare the airfield to receive the 250th regiment. And on January 5, a strong snowstorm began. As a result, having captured the airfield on January 300 with 4 fighters, having fought the Germans all day before that, Starchak discovered that there would be no second echelon.

On the 43th, the detachment was ordered to act independently. Starchak left the airfield and sent paratroopers to raid the German rear. They took Myatlevo, destroying a train with tanks there, but since there were no reinforcements, and the XNUMXrd Army was advancing much more slowly than planned, nothing could be held.

After 17 days of intense heavy fighting in the German rear with superior enemy forces, the detachment went to join the 43rd Army. By that time, 87 people remained in it, I. Starchak himself received frostbite in his legs, which required partial amputation.

Analyzing the actions of the battalions of Captain Surzhik and Major Starchak, it must be said that the paratroopers completed their part of the task - parachute landing to the rear, capture of designated objects, access to designated areas.

The reasons that their success was not used were: insufficiently well-conducted reconnaissance in the Bolshoi Fatyanovo area, weak air support, failure to take into account the weather in planning, as a result for Starchak, the landing of the main landing forces was canceled. None of this indicates the failure of the concept of parachute landing as such.




Soviet paratroopers at TB-3. Photo by Semyon Fridlyand

Landing in the area of ​​Znamenka, Luga, Zhelanya. January 18, 1942, paratroopers consisting of two battalions of the 201st Airborne Brigade, landing troops - 250th Airborne Forces, commander of the landing forces - Major Soldatov.

The task is to cut German communications behind Yukhnov, to help the advance of the 1st Guards Cavalry Corps.

The problem was to be solved in three stages. On the first stage, the battalions of the 201st airborne brigade were to capture the German airfield in Znamenka, knocking out the enemy from there and taking up all-round defense. On the second, a group was supposed to land at the airfield, ensuring the reception of the main forces of the landing force. On the third, all the forces of the 250th regiment, together with Major Soldatov, were to be landed on the airfield, after which the combined airborne detachment was to begin the combat mission. All settlements in the district were occupied by the Germans, the enemy had a significant numerical superiority, but deep snow made it difficult to maneuver and mutual assistance for the German units, and the Soviet paratroopers had skis.

On the night of January 18, 1942, at 03:35, the aircraft with the landing force began to climb from the runway of the Vnukovo airfield. The landing, as usual, went wrong. The first wave of paratroopers of Major Surzhik, numbering 425 people, landed between Znamenka and Zhelanye at 9 am. The paratroopers waited for the reception of the second wave of paratroopers the next night, but due to bad weather they managed to land only 200 people, which brought the size of Captain Surzhik's group to 625 fighters and commanders.

By this time, the team that was supposed to ensure the reception of aircraft at Znamenka landed on a landing site controlled by the partisans.
And here, too, everything did not go according to plan, intelligence again made a mistake in assessing the enemy, and the Germans were able to detect the landing of Li-2. In addition, the planes did not have skis, and only one of the entire group was then able to take off.

Surzhik managed to ensure the collection of all landing forces under his command and attack Znamenka, but the Germans could not be driven out of the airfield.

On January 19, paratroopers, partisans and local residents managed to prepare a runway at a distance from the German positions, on which wheeled aircraft could land and from which they could take off. From January 20 to January 22, 1 people were landed on the runway. The Germans managed to shoot down three aircraft, in which 100 paratroopers were killed and 27 were wounded.

Deploying his forces on the ground, Soldatov began to act.

The paratroopers cut the Vyazma-Yukhnov highway and captured a German supply convoy. On January 20, Zhukov personally ordered Soldatov to attack the village of Klyuchi with part of his forces and from there go to join the 1st Guards. Cavalry Corps Belov. This order was given to Surzhik and the paratroopers of two battalions of the 201st brigade. This order was carried out by January 28, while the paratroopers defeated the small Wehrmacht garrisons in five small villages along the way.

The rest of Soldatov's forces attacked Znamenka, trying to dislodge the Germans from there, cut the Bryansk-Vyazma railway line, attacked the Ugra station and continued to fight the Germans along the Vyazma-Yukhnov highway, where the latter attacked with artillery support by the strength of two infantry companies.

The command of the front continuously set new tasks for the paratroopers, all the time expanding their combat area. Unfortunately, the paratroopers themselves failed to clear Znamenka - the enemy was too strong. By the end of January, all landing forces joined the combined arms formations of the Red Army, advancing in the direction of Vyazma.

It must be said that the paratroopers of the 1st brigade and the 201th regiment completed the task of helping the 250st Guards Cavalry Corps and cutting German communications - the fact that they failed to take Znamenka did not affect its success.

These successes had a price - landing losses were great, which is not surprising, given the conditions in which they had to operate. The 250th regiment was later disbanded without being reorganized into a linear rifle unit - there was no one to reorganize there.

The Soviet command, inspired by the fact that the parachute units are showing more and more successes, decided on an operational airborne assault - the landing of the 8th airborne brigade to cut German communications in the near rear of their defenses. It was supposed to be the first Soviet airborne landing of operational significance.
By the time the soldiers of Soldatov and Surzhik joined the infantry and cavalry, the Vyazemskaya airborne operation was already underway.

Before moving on to landings of operational significance, it is necessary to evaluate tactical landings.

As you can see, the vast majority of them cannot be called unsuccessful, although the tasks of the landing force were often not fully completed. At the same time, it cannot be said that they were always small in number, the same landing under Znamenka and Zhelanye was rather big by the standards of World War II.

The very introduction of paratroopers into battle by flying transport aircraft behind enemy lines and dropping personnel by parachute was successful in all cases, except for one - Teryaeva Sloboda.

The combined method of landing was successful, when the first echelon lands by parachute, and the main forces by the landing method.

Enemy air defenses often fired on aircraft, but failed to disrupt a single landing.
The presence or absence of air supremacy, which is considered mandatory today, in the first half of the forties was leveled by landings in the early morning, at dusk or in the evening, and also at night.

At the same time, all landings had chronic failures in planning, which were never corrected. Among them: poor reconnaissance, sometimes an unsuccessful choice of landing sites, almost zero interaction with strike aircraft, at best, before landing, a supporting air strike could be delivered somewhere, one-time, otherwise there was simply no interaction.

Worst of all, the insufficient allocation of transport aviation forces led to the fact that even the battalion's deployment could drag on for several days. This led to the loss of surprise and thwarted the possibility of a quick success by the landing force.

Another chronic mistake was the overestimation of the success of the corps and armies advancing on the ground, almost always much more time passed before connecting with them than it should have been.

All this, coupled with the objectively arising need to load the landing force with additional tasks and also the objectively available numerical and fire superiority of the enemy, led to heavy losses in the landing units and subunits.

But the worst of all turned out to be that, not having overcome these shortcomings, the command of the Red Army began to use airborne units on an operationally significant scale, only to discover that on a large scale, these same errors and shortcomings in planning have a completely different effect.

Another effect was the traditional disease of our army - poor communication. It is one thing to restore control of a battalion thrown out in a couple of days, against which no one really fights, another thing is a brigade thrown under the blow of reserve regiments or divisions, which is delivered in parts for many days in a row.

And it also affected on a critical scale.

Operational landings and the mechanism of disaster


The operational airborne operations of the Red Army include the landing of the 8th Airborne Brigade of the 4th Airborne Forces during the Vyazemsky airborne operation in January-February 1942, the landing of the remaining forces of the 4th Airborne Forces as part of the 2nd brigades (9th and 214th) during her own and the Dnieper landing of 1943. Unlike tactical landings, the tasks of which were still carried out for the most part (let us leave the question of the meaningfulness of these tasks beyond the scope of the study), operational ones ended in disaster.

The volume of the article does not make it possible to make a detailed analysis of all airborne operations, so it is necessary to briefly outline the mechanism of the disaster.

In a number of sources, one can find information that, in general, the plan for using the 4th Airborne Command corresponded to the situation, but the execution failed. This is not true.

In fact, the same scheme was proposed that was used in tactical landings - landing for unbroken the enemy's line of defense, actually surrounded.

Landing communications, but (attention) - significantly further from the front line than tactical landings did.

And what about in the depths of the enemy’s defense? He has operational reserves there. There is the ability to send not two infantry companies, but a division, into a counterattack. Sometimes not just one.

And the speed of the breakthrough of the advancing units of the Red Army was low, and this was obvious by that time. Any length of time could pass from the landing to joining it with the advancing units of the Red Army.

Thus, no matter how the paratroopers landed, they would have, firstly, to face numerous enemy reserves that surpass them both in firepower and in numbers, and secondly, all this with minimal chances of wait for the advancing armies on the ground.

It was an operational miscalculation, it could not be compensated by any tactical luck.


But there were no tactical successes, because the “birthmarks” of planning Soviet airborne assaults did not disappear anywhere.

And the lack of aircraft, which was also aggravated by German air strikes on airfields, and the inability or unwillingness to take into account the weather when planning a landing, and intelligence, unable to provide the necessary information about the enemy - these problems were added to the operational miscalculation. And they were superimposed on a missing connection.

One can only guess how it would have ended if the three brigades of the 4th Airborne Forces that had not been put into battle then went into battle as infantry in the offensive zone of one of the combined arms armies, and the aircraft were used to supply troops. But what happened happened.

On January 24, the ejection of the 8th brigade began. Past the designated target, with a huge clearance for tens of kilometers, the advanced battalion was landed, which took more than a day to collect and advance to the Ozerechny area, where they still had to fight with the German garrison. There was no communication with the corps, with the brigade, too.

Supplies were lost during the drop due to the scattering of soft containers with supplies for the battalion.

Nevertheless, Captain Karnaukhov, who commanded the landing units, managed to capture the area in which it was supposed to receive the main forces of the landing force and prepare to receive them.

Alas, the landing of the entire 8th brigade dragged on until February 1st.

The control of the forces of the 8th brigade was never restored, the commander of the brigade, Lieutenant Colonel A. Onufriev, who landed, could not fix anything. At the same time, the command continued to drop paratroopers "to nowhere." In fact, the brigade broke up into numerous detachments that had no connection either with the command or with each other, and of the entire brigade, only the 3rd battalion of Major Kobets completed the task, in fact, a detachment of 131 people, who immediately saddled both the railway and the road to west of Vyazma. The battalion managed to cut communications between Vyazma and Smolensk for three days in a row and force the Germans to involve large forces in clearing the roads. But soon Kobets had to join the 1st Guards Cavalry Corps.

The remaining detachments of the brigade were engaged in the destruction of small German garrisons and units, acting without a sane plan and leadership and without significant results.


Somewhere west of Moscow, January 1942, paratroopers watch a railroad blow up. Photo: Oleg Knorring, Red Star.

In early February, units of the 8th brigade were already mainly fighting together with the 1st Guards Cavalry Corps as light infantry, and the task assigned to the brigade of disrupting German communications and facilitating the offensive was not completed. Due to the superiority of the enemy in forces, the brigade suffered very heavy losses.

The landing of the 4th Airborne Command repeated the scheme - the corps landed behind an unbroken front line and very far from it. The suddenness of the use of landing units by that time had been lost, the strike force of the Soviet fronts too, the organization of the drop was common for the Red Army, and the landing could not have any strategic effect, although it was fettered by battles (together with the cavalry of the 1st Guards Cavalry Corps and partisans) already 7 German divisions.

The paratroopers fought in the German rear until the summer, and these were precisely organized strikes and raids carried out together with other parts of the Red Army. Thousands of fighters and commanders of the 4th Airborne Forces subsequently broke out of the German encirclement along with other troops and partisans.

In general, it is impossible to say that the 4th Airborne Forces was defeated by the Germans, although the losses were huge. The very idea of ​​the operation was simply unrealizable.

At the same time, the Germans were never able to prevent an amphibious landing or the airlift of supplies and reinforcements in an organized manner and with good results.

It makes no sense to analyze the Dnieper landing - the operation was planned so poorly that it could not end in success. Moreover, her miserable plan was executed horribly.

Nevertheless, it is worth noting that in the original plan, some mistakes of the old landings were corrected, for example, interaction with strike aircraft was planned.
True, they could not implement it.

The Dnieper landing operation only proves that the more complex the operation plan, the more critical the quality of the officers in the headquarters responsible for its implementation. No more lessons can be learned from it, unlike previous operations.

Such a severe failure in the organization cannot be compensated by any heroism.

The landing of troops into the boilers to help the encircled troops deserves special mention. And the battalion of senior lieutenant Belotserkovsky (4th battalion of the 204th airborne brigade), thrown into the cauldron with units of the 29th army near the village of Okorokovo west of Rzhev on February 17, 1942, and the 4th battalion of the 23rd airborne brigade, dropped on assistance to the 4th Airborne Forces, on April 19, 1942, they completed their task.

This is especially true of the Belotserkovsky battalion, without which the remnants of the 29th Army simply would not have broken through the encirclement. The price was inevitably high losses, more than 2/3 of the landing personnel, but the landing force then sold its life really dearly, and the number of soldiers and commanders who left the boiler justified such sacrifices, no matter how cynical it sounds.


Someone not included in history sabotage paratrooper detachment, 1942. Photo: Mark Redkin

What conclusions can be drawn from the experience of the landings of the Great Patriotic War?

Firstly, the scheme “to throw troops behind an unbroken front line” works very poorly at the tactical level and does not work at all on the operational level. The depth at which the landing force operates should allow troops advancing along the ground to break through to it in time. The tactical landings of the Red Army were relatively successful, but bloody, because this requirement was poorly fulfilled. And for operatives - it was not carried out at all.

Together with the traditional Soviet "sins" such as the unorganized introduction of parachute units into battle in parts and the dispersion of troops in tens of kilometers, and others mentioned above, violation of this requirement reduced the effectiveness of airborne assaults.

The idea of ​​​​using the Airborne Forces as a means of developing success after the front was hacked and mobile formations were introduced into the breakthrough had not yet been reached in those years. It remains only to guess what level of combat effectiveness the Airborne Forces would have reached if the Stavka had been developing them as stubbornly as the development of tank troops, which at first they also did not know how to use, from the word “generally”.

Western experience


Unlike our country, where the era of parachute landings in a real war ended with the Great Patriotic War, and landing from an airplane - in 1968, in the West the situation was different.

During the Second World War, Western countries and Japan widely used airborne assaults, landing troops by parachute, glider and landing method in different variations. There were many tactical landings, especially at the initial stage of World War II by the Germans, from the capture of Fort Eben-Emal to jumps over Denmark, Norway and Greece.

In all tactical landings, the German paratroopers performed well.


German paratroopers at the beginning of World War II

The first airborne operation on an operational scale was the capture of Crete by German paratroopers.

I must say that the heavy losses for the Wehrmacht, which forced Hitler to abandon the use of airborne troops for their intended purpose and in massive quantities, were actually acceptable, simply because the result was worth it.

The Cretan operation of the Germans without reservations must be called successful.

In the future, the allies raised the banner of airborne warfare.

The Americans parachuted into North Africa, their paratroopers fought in Sicily and New Guinea (503rd regiment), and during the landing in Normandy, two airborne divisions landed in the airborne assault - the 82nd and 101st, both of which are still still exist, however, the 101st is now air assault and operates from helicopters. The 82nd is still airborne.


Aircraft with the 503rd Infantry (Parachute) Regiment of the US Army during the drop on Nadzab, New Guinea. Pay attention to the smoke screens put up by strike aircraft to cover the landing.

The British did not lag behind, as did the Americans, they carried out airborne operations on a small scale in Africa, during the landings in Normandy they brought the 6th Airborne Division into battle, along with some other units acting as amphibious troops.

During the invasion of southern France, the British launched the 2nd Airborne Brigade into battle. At the same time, it was difficult for the British to organize landing operations, especially for the 6th Airborne Division, in which the proportion of personnel who did not participate in the combat mission due to losses and dispersion during landing sometimes reached 40%.

In the Pacific theater of operations, the British even acted with local units, for example, two battalions of Gurkhas landed by parachute near Yangon, and their actions were decisive for clearing the city from the Japanese (Operation Elephant Point).


Gurkha paratroopers before landing at Yangon

At the very end of the war in April 1945, the Americans and the British even managed to parachute along with the Italians who joined them (Operation Herring), also successfully.

In general, characterizing the Allied landings, it is worth saying that the vast majority of tactical landings were either completely successful or relatively successful. The overwhelming minority were failures, there were no catastrophic ones at all. Of the landings of operational importance, only the infamous Operation Market Garden failed - an attempt to capture the bridges across the Rhine by airborne assault.

A lot has been written about the failure of the British part of the operation, one can say that the Allies repeated the conceptual mistake of the Soviet planners - they threw the paratroopers too far beyond the unbroken front, where the landing force could be attacked by operational reserves. The bridge really turned out to be “too far away”.

Comparing the actions of the allies in the west with the paratroopers of the Red Army, it is easy to see the decisive trump card that the British and Americans had - a sufficient number of aircraft and a more favorable season in terms of climate (our season was suitable on the Dnieper, but we could not use it). Already these two factors radically facilitated the work of paratroopers, apart from everything else.

In general, it can be stated that during the Second World War, the parachute troops fully justified themselves. Another thing is that the headquarters that planned the operation as a whole did not always do their job as expected, which had an extremely dramatic effect on the landing units. At the same time, it also became clear that in airborne operations the cost of a mistake is always higher than in a conventional offensive.

No wonder that after the Second World War the practice of using airborne troops continued.


US Army 187th Parachute Regiment landing in Korea, 21 October 1950

The Dutch captured Indonesian cities with the help of paratroopers in 1949 (the saddest example is the Rengat massacre, where the Dutch killed, according to various estimates, from several hundred to 2 civilians, including mass executions of policemen), the Americans in Korea tried twice cut off the North Korean troops with a parachute landing of the combat group of the 000th parachute regiment of the 187st airborne division (October 101, 21 south of Pyongyang and March 1950, 23 during Operation Tomahawk), however, for the second time the enemy retreated by the time ejections. The Israelis and the British successfully used paratroopers during the 1951 war against Egypt. On February 1956, 22, during Operation Junction City in Vietnam, the Americans parachuted 1967 people from the 845nd Battalion, 2rd Parachute Regiment, 503rd Airborne Brigade.




The only US parachute drop in Vietnam, February 22, 1967

On May 4, 1978, 370 soldiers from the 44th Parachute Brigade of South Africa were dropped on Cassinga in Angola, crushing the opposing Cubans and Angolans.

During the invasion of Grenada on October 25, 1983, the Americans captured the Port Salinas airfield with the forces of two battalions of the 75th Ranger Regiment, subsequently ensuring the reception of reinforcements from the 82nd Airborne Division by landing method.

In 1990, during the invasion of Panama, the Americans parachuted 700 Rangers and 2 troops from the 179nd Airborne Division.


Paratroopers from the 82nd US Airborne Division in Panama, after landing at the airport

In 2001, one of the first American soldiers in Afghanistan were 200 Rangers parachuted out during Operation Reno on October 19, 2001. Its result was the capture of the airfield, where the Americans later created a military base.
Video taken during and before the landing.


The last time the Americans landed a large landing in Iraq, on March 26, 2003, the 173rd Airborne Brigade was thrown into the northern part of the country. True, this did not make much military sense, moreover, it was possible to do without parachute landings at all.

Naturally, this short analysis does not cover all post-war landings. Thus, the Rhodesians from the Sellus Scouts sometimes performed up to three combat drops per day. The French and other remnants of the colonialists jumped in Africa, the South Vietnamese soldiers used parachutes before the Americans provided them with helicopters in the right quantity, it is not possible to list all the parachute landings after World War II in this article.

At the same time, there is a multidirectional trend in Western countries. In all countries of the world, the number of parachute formations is continuously declining. But in the US it is increasing.

For a long time, the only major unit of the US Army in Alaska was the 173rd airborne brigade, the same one that jumped in Iraq.

We’ll talk about why the only formation of the American army in the Arctic is paratroopers a little later, but for now, the 173rd brigade is deployed into the 11th airborne (airborne) division, “Arctic”, also known as the “Arctic Angels” .

Sleeve patch of the 11th airborne division

Work on the creation of the division is already underway, but it will be completely ready for landing in three or four years.

The Americans obviously know something, and we know that they know, moreover, we will return to this a bit later.

Helicopters, BMD and tactical nuclear weapons


Let us briefly consider what trends in the development of airborne units took place after the Second World War.

The first was the appearance of transport helicopters, from which troops could be landed.

Helicopters had a lot of advantages. The first and most important thing is to reduce ejection losses. Those who have jumped know that fractures, convergence of parachutes, non-opening and other emergencies on jumps happen, although not very often, but regularly. Periodically it ends with human casualties. In a combat situation, the landing force is almost immediately burdened with the wounded, since the landing takes place on approximately suitable sites, where the absence of pits, bumps and the like is not guaranteed, and therefore fractures of the limbs. It is far from always possible to evacuate the wounded at the range of military transport aviation, ambulance helicopters have a much shorter flight range than airplanes.

The second advantage of helicopters is the absence of problems with the collection of troops. In modern conditions, the problem of the spread of paratroopers is not as acute as in the 40s, when the spread in the Red Army was tens of kilometers.

Now everything is much simpler, but in any case, the landing strip is large, and it takes some time to collect and search for your commanders. In the case of helicopters, there is no such problem.

The third advantage of helicopters is the ability to hide from enemy radar stations in low-altitude flight. When approaching Gostomel, for example, our helicopters fell into Ukrainian ambushes - they were expected, and they had to go through dense volleys of man-portable anti-aircraft missile systems. Optoelectronic countermeasures systems were able to reduce losses to several helicopters, but both S-300s and Buks would have fired at the planes. Fortunately, the parachute landing was cancelled.

Fourth - the possibility of evacuating the wounded and the removal of troops, which aircraft a priori do not have.

All this has led to the fact that all over the world, except for modern Russia, the role and importance of helicopter landings is constantly growing, unlike parachute ones. In the USSR, it was the same, in the end, the ground forces even created their own airborne forces - airborne assault troops, in helicopters. The same United States in Iraq in 2003 used paratroopers in one conditional combat (actually not) landing, but the 101st Airborne Division was engaged in landings regularly.


In general, on the scale of wars and individual military operations, the use of helicopters for landing troops has long become a routine, while every parachute assault is an event.
The second trend was the Soviet one that existed in parallel - the transformation of the Airborne Forces into parachute mechanized troops capable of operating (in theory) when using tactical nuclear weapons.

In the 60s, the BMD-1 airborne combat vehicle was created in the USSR, theoretically allowing paratroopers to move through radioactively contaminated terrain and fight without dismounting. Later, the unified BTR-D and SAO 2S9 Nona appeared, and the Airborne Forces themselves were turned into light mechanized parachute troops, which conceptually sharply distinguished them from similar formations in other countries.

Prior to this, the Soviet paratroopers were almost a copy of the American ones - light infantry with airborne self-propelled guns (airborne ASU-57, airborne ASU-85) as a means of fire support.


ASU-57 on a parachute platform

Such an organization, in addition to greater survivability in a nuclear war, had another plus - these airborne forces could be used as a tool for developing the success of ground forces after reaching a breakthrough in enemy defenses.

Let us recall once again one of the troubles of the Soviet airborne units in the Great Patriotic War - it took too much time to connect with the breaking through units of the Red Army, by this moment the landing force was grinding away, and attempts to solve operational tasks by throwing large landing forces over an unbroken line of defense ended in disasters.

Here it was also possible to use landing forces after the collapse of the enemy’s defenses as mobile forces delivered to the offensive zone of the main mass of troops, but far ahead - as if a mechanized formation could go into a breakthrough with great speed.

A foot parachute landing cannot be used like that, it loses mobility after landing, a foot helicopter can, since helicopters can pick up soldiers, but it will not have heavy weapons. In addition, foot soldiers have insufficient survivability in radioactively contaminated areas.

The new look of the USSR Airborne Forces, born in the 70s, closed these questions.

But the new look had a price.

Firstly, if a foot assault can be loaded by an infantry company onto an aircraft, then a mechanized assault can be loaded into a platoon (now even less with BMD-4). This means that only one company needs three aircraft instead of one. And there were also rear areas with vehicles, artillery ... It was at this moment that the BTA's ability to drop the airborne troops dramatically weakened, although the BTA had a considerable number.

Secondly, the appearance in the Airborne Forces of mechanized artillery, trucks and MLRS dropped by parachute required a large amount of fuel that had to be taken somewhere - given the small number of units and subunits in comparison with combined arms and small displacement engines, it can be assumed that we are talking about less than 1 tons per day per division, but it is still a lot. And you also need ammo. The ability to supply airborne units by air during mass landings turned out to be a big question.

Thirdly, specific states (weak squad, imbalance in numbers between infantry and armored vehicle crews) and very light armored vehicles eventually led to the problems that are now rising again in Ukraine, as they used to be in Chechnya and Afghanistan.

Fourthly, those tasks that looked solvable at the beginning of the 60s, when the contours of the new image of the Airborne Forces were being devised, by the end of the 70s were already unsolvable. And the anti-tank capabilities of the BMD were no longer satisfactory, and the capabilities of the air forces of Western countries turned out to be completely different from those 15 years before, which put the very idea of ​​overflight of transport aircraft into question.

A nuclear war never happened. But even if it happened ... During the West-77 KShU, where the war in Europe was practiced with massive (600 special ammunition from our side and 200 from the western) use of tactical nuclear weapons, there was work for only one division of the Airborne Forces and aside from the direction of concentration of the main efforts - the capture of the island of Zelda in the Baltic.

However, as mentioned above, with the available staff and equipment of the Airborne Forces, one division was close to the limit of the capabilities of transport aviation.

In the United States, the ideas of full mechanization of the parachute troops were not implemented, although the American paratroopers could consistently rely on the M56 self-propelled guns delivered by the landing method, the M41 light tank, then, from the 60s, the M551 Sheridan light airborne tank, with which they remained until 1996 Methods for dropping Sheridans with parachutes:



The M8 combat vehicle planned to be replaced, actually a parachute tank with a 105-mm cannon, despite successful tests, was not accepted into service, which left the Americans without heavy weapons to be landed.


In addition to tanks, the Americans are dropping M998 Humvees by parachute and are considering heavy weapons and vehicles for paratroopers as optionally possible - they may or may not be dropped, and the infantry, with or without air support, will act on its own.


But even in the 82nd US Airborne Division, purely ground-based components are being developed. So, it has helicopters, and as a heavy weapon, the US Army is considering a light tank created under the Mobile protected firepower program, which can only be delivered by landing.

This is how the experience and foreign prospects of parachute units look like.
In addition to paratroopers, it is worth mentioning such a method as landing landing from aircraft.

Landing landing


The first combat landing in history was a landing, it was carried out by a Soviet detachment in Central Asia during the fight against the Basmachi in 1928.

In the future, landing landing was used both from gliders and from aircraft within the framework of two fundamental approaches: the first is the use of landing landing in the first wave, without parachute.

Interestingly, this method has a rich history. So, it was the glider landing, which landed without parachutes, by landing method, that took the Belgian fort Eben-Emal.

Part of the first wave of German landing on Crete was landed from gliders.


Standard German landing glider DFS-230 from World War II, photo taken in Africa in 1942

The Red Army landed dozens of landing troops on the airfields of Manchuria in 1945.

The famous Israeli raid on Entebbe was carried out by landing method, the group that ensured the evacuation of the hostages landed from the transport "Hercules".


But the main method of using landing troops was the landing of the second echelon at the airfield captured by paratroopers. This is how the German paratroopers acted in Crete, the Soviet paratroopers in 1942, the Americans in Grenada and Panama ... And this method is still relevant - it allows you to deliver heavy weapons to the airfield captured by paratroopers that cannot be dropped by parachute, for example tanks.

Yes, and infantry without parachutes fit more on the plane.

Remember this.

And now, having a real understanding of past experience, and not various propaganda clichés, let's move on to determining the appearance of future landing troops, looking back both at our own experience and at the achievements of the Americans. And on their future views, which they do not voice, but which are quite understandable, based on what they do.

In addition to experience, we will build on the appearance that the Airborne Forces have now, since we will need some of the capabilities of these troops in the future.

Продолжение следует ...
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  1. +7
    13 September 2022 04: 37
    Article plus. Interesting, but unclear.
    1. +12
      13 September 2022 06: 41
      It is clear that parachute landings on aircraft will be nullified upon approach, and those who are not finished off in the air will be rolled out in turn on the ground, because there are no suckers with photo reports and ostentatious drill reviews. In the event of a parachute landing in Ukraine, our soldiers would have already entrenched themselves in the black soil very steadily at a depth of 1,5-2 meters.
      1. -6
        13 September 2022 08: 52
        Paratroopers and landing equipment are needed. And recent events confirm this.
        Everyone saw the feverish loading of infantry fighting vehicles and other equipment (quite light) into the Mi-26 and the transfer of one vehicle to the threatened direction. Throwing three airborne infantry fighting vehicles and crews with troops or four without troops from one Il-76 into the same fields at once would have passed much faster. Parachute or platform landing methods are just for such cases.
        1. +12
          13 September 2022 11: 25
          To moor the landing equipment, you need at least half a day ... There can be no question of speed here .. Parachute training is a necessary measure in the preparation of a modern soldier ..
          1. -8
            13 September 2022 11: 48
            Quote: AlexFly
            To moor the landing equipment, you need at least half a day ... There can be no talk of speed here ..

            There is no need for fairy tales about half a day, but even if 4 hours for 3 cars on one board, then already three planes are 9 cars in the same four hours.
            1. +16
              13 September 2022 13: 30
              What fairy tales, dear? The realities of life... before you put them on board, you still have to tinker with them on the ground... Ask any GVA-nickname..
              1. +1
                13 September 2022 16: 21
                Quote: AlexFly
                What fairy tales, dear? The realities of life ... before you drive them on board, you still have to tinker with them on the ground ...

                It is understood if you drive the unwashed from the field. And if already packed with parachutes? That's what the operational reserve is for ... Well, drop it instantly, and not land, unmoor and roll out.
                Quote: AlexFly
                Ask any GDS-nick..
                Thank you, theory differs from practice, of course, but more often in the direction of simplification.
                31st standard: loading of BT in IL-76 - 3 objects
                - excellent - 1,30 hour
                - good - 1,40
                - satisfactory - 1,50
                (big object ;) i.e. two pieces - 1 hour
                - 1,20
                - 1,30)

                Source: collection of standards for the Airborne Forces, book No. 2, 1985)


                https://desantura.ru/forum/forum45/topic2541/?ysclid=l807t76j0801667987
                1. +5
                  13 September 2022 18: 50
                  On the one hand, you are talking business, and on the other, I do not quite agree with you.
                  The transfer of units to the area of ​​​​the breakthrough of the technician and units on the Mi-26 was a forced measure, where at least something had to be done. Given that ours did not expect this breakthrough or overslept (we will not go into details), then ready-made moored equipment with ready-made parachute systems is out of the question, and moored equipment will not be kept for months just like that.
                  Further about the standards ... this is, of course, good, BUT, for example, the installation of the D-10 parachute system, as far as I remember, we had in the troops for excellent 45 minutes, for a good hour, for satisfactorily 1 hour 15 minutes, but in fact with all the checks it took 2 hours to do everything about everything, and this is not taking into account the fact that you still need to lay the parachute later on for the helper (since they work in pairs when laying).
                  Here, too, according to the standards, one thing, but in reality it can turn out to be completely different.
                  Although I also share your views that paratroopers have not yet become obsolete.
                  1. +3
                    14 September 2022 04: 15
                    Quote: Sanguinius
                    ready-made moored equipment with ready-made parachute systems is out of the question, and moored equipment will not be kept for months just like that.
                    Further about the standards ... this is, of course, good, BUT, for example, the installation of the D-10 parachute system, as far as I remember, we had in the troops for excellent 45 minutes, for a good hour, for satisfactorily 1 hour 15 minutes, but in fact with all the checks went to everything about everything for 2 hours,

                    That's right, I understand this, but the packed parachutes are also stored for up to 3 months, and on alarm, the parachutes are not repacked with their eyes bulging laughing , and put on / install laid.
                    Quote: Sanguinius
                    Although I also share your views that paratroopers have not yet become obsolete.
                    drinks
                    1. +2
                      14 September 2022 05: 00
                      You're right, I missed this momenthi
                  2. 0
                    14 September 2022 10: 58
                    I don’t know where you got these numbers, every stage is checked, it passes on command. If there are 90 foreheads in the company, then this is already 40 minutes per stage, and there are 6 of them, in my opinion ...
                2. +1
                  14 September 2022 10: 54
                  You yourself answered .. In order to prepare the equipment for loading, it must also be moored, prepared for dropping, this is a whole procedure .. I didn’t blurt out half a day from the ceiling ... But it’s HALF DAY
                  1. -1
                    14 September 2022 11: 37
                    Quote: AlexFly
                    In order to prepare the equipment for loading, it must also be moored, prepared for dropping, this is a whole procedure .. I didn’t blurt out half a day from the ceiling ... But it’s HALF DAY

                    I explain again. All pre-all preparation is needed only if the equipment is here, only driven from the fields.
                    If the equipment is ready and just waiting for the "Alarm", then I showed you the standards. Just in case, parachutes are stored packed and ready for use for up to three months, on equipment in the field - for several days.
                    The loading time of one BMD with landing aids, including its final installation and testing in the aircraft, should be no more than 20 minutes, excluding the installation time of the exhaust parachute system.

                    I don't invent either.
                    1. +2
                      14 September 2022 14: 08
                      Equipment, as a rule, comes from the fields and is moored in the immediate vicinity of the loading ... Training can be held in other places ... Which was done regularly ...
        2. -13
          13 September 2022 11: 54
          the potential of the Airborne Forces with paratroopers, incl. with technology will get a new impetus
          with the advent of the new PAK VTA
          IL-76MD-90A takes a platoon of only 3 BMDs, - 3 units. IL-76 landing a company of 9 BMD

          An-22 (total 3 units) landing 4 BMD
          An-124 combat landing is possible, transportation of 5 BMD-3 or 10 BTR-82
          the appearance of the PAK VTA with the possibility of not only transferring but also landing
          9 BMD-4 (company) - 4 units. PAK VTA - landing of the battalion 36 BMD (12 Il-76)
          This will be a new impetus in the development of the potential of the Airborne Forces
          The Ministry of Defense also has a concept of mass landing from IL-276 to 2 BMD
          Battalion 36 BMD landing from 18 Il-276
          IL-276 is cheaper, faster in production and will potentially be a more mass-produced aircraft than IL-76
          1. +5
            13 September 2022 14: 47
            First, it is necessary to revive the aviation industry, the pace of today's aircraft and helicopter manufacturing is completely unsatisfactory.
          2. +6
            13 September 2022 15: 43
            novel you are a projector no engines, no planes and please answer when all the wealth you have painted will be in ra
        3. 0
          14 September 2022 02: 22
          Parachute landing, especially equipment, with modern air defense is possible only at a considerable distance from the line of contact. Moreover, when landing from aircraft, a platform of very significant size is required.
          1. 0
            14 September 2022 04: 32
            Quote: Oleg812spb
            Parachute landing, especially equipment, with modern air defense is possible only at a considerable distance from the line of contact. Moreover, when landing from aircraft, a platform of very significant size is required.

            Do you have numbers? Even 20 km from the LBS at an altitude of 600 meters will not even allow the vast majority of military air defense systems to detect an aircraft, because air defense systems and radars are located in the depths of defense, and when landing from the same height in three streams, a strip of 1 by 5 km is sufficient. (dumping of equipment and troops is allowed from 300 m.)
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. 0
              14 September 2022 11: 12
              Do you mean landing on your territory 20 km before the LBS? And do not forget about MANPADS and mobile air defense systems.
              1. -1
                14 September 2022 11: 30
                Quote: Oleg812spb
                Do you mean landing on your territory 20 km before the LBS?

                Exactly.
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Everyone saw the feverish loading of infantry fighting vehicles and other equipment (quite light) into the Mi-26 and the transfer of one vehicle to the threatened direction.
                1. 0
                  16 September 2022 15: 40
                  The transfer of reserves and the landing of troops are still different concepts. And emergency measures in the current critical situation should not become something systemic.
                  1. 0
                    16 September 2022 17: 57
                    Quote: Oleg812spb
                    The transfer of reserves and the landing of troops are still different concepts.

                    The troops are landed on enemy territory, and the reserves are transferred to their own, that's the whole difference. Just reserves sometimes, as in this case, need to be transferred VERY urgently.
                2. 0
                  19 September 2022 13: 04
                  then the development of the Mi-26 theme remains only with a coaxial scheme
                  in theory, it can lift 150 tons, which is 10 BMD-4
                  in practice, only 6 BMD-4s will fit in 2 rows, you need a fuselage width of 6 meters
                  1. +1
                    20 September 2022 08: 18
                    ̶ch̶t̶o̶ ̶В̶ы̶ ̶k̶u̶r̶i̶t̶e̶ Where do you get such pictures? (Joke)
                    1. +1
                      20 September 2022 09: 16
                      even in theory, if the Mi-26 is done in a coaxial scheme
                      the payload will be 50 tons - these are 2 BMP-3 or 2 BMD-4M
                      2 times increase
      2. -4
        13 September 2022 19: 38
        Quote: Hoarfrost
        It is clear that the paratroopers on aircraft will be reset to zero upon approach, and those who will not be finished off in the air
        It just means that before the landing, these "nullifiers" and "finishers" must be eliminated by aviation forces or a nuclear strike.
    2. -4
      13 September 2022 07: 48
      I know where the removed nips is lying around.
      And the second use of gypsum was not invented.
      Losses are scary... And costs...
      Then mo are accountants.
      Fear of planned losses, higher than "usual" land.
      And it's all.
      It is easier to educate diplomas and achieve external political goals without war
    3. +11
      13 September 2022 08: 03
      The article is good, there is an understanding that a reform of the Airborne Forces is needed to transfer it from purely paratroopers to mountain rifle airborne assault troops, that is, mountain rifle units with their own helicopter units. Having heavy weapons for warriors in hard-to-reach areas or in cities. It is very difficult to fight in the mountains without turntables. And tanks in most cases are useless and equipment capable of passing in the mountains where tanks cannot pass comes to the fore. Therefore, the T62 in the 42nd division was the main workhorse, light, mobile with an engine from the T72, but strangely enough, the MTLB was simply not replaceable in the mountains, as it had a turbocharger and proved to be excellent. In part, the airborne equipment is perfectly adapted for operations in the mountains, I'm talking about NONA and SPRUT SD. The future airborne forces are behind the turntables and in the mountains to where the path is ordered for motorized riflemen.
      1. +19
        13 September 2022 08: 31
        The future airborne forces are behind the turntables and in the mountains to where the path is ordered for motorized riflemen.

        Yes, it is easier to teach motorized riflemen the peculiarities of combat tactics in the mountains. So, after all, this was how it was in the DRA.
        Or will we continue to engage in nonsense? Forest infantry, desert infantry, mountain infantry, urban infantry. And each has its own
        command, almost a branch of the military.
        The helicopter does not care what shoulder straps are in the cargo compartment - red, black or blue. Or Aunt Glasha from the Voentorg stall. Either everyone flew, or everyone was buried.
        1. +7
          13 September 2022 08: 56
          Quote: dauria
          Forest infantry, desert infantry, mountain infantry, urban infantry.

          And separate infantry for parades.
          1. +5
            13 September 2022 22: 10
            But it would be nice if it is impossible to eradicate this evil (parades) altogether. Then at least allocate one regiment to amusing troops, hang them with bows and aiguillettes, and let them arrange carnival processions at least daily. In the meantime, for the sake of dusting in the eyes, tens of thousands of military personnel have been and are being distracted from combat training every year, including almost 100% of cadets of military universities, who, in fact, have no studies at all from March to May, only shagistics.
            1. -2
              13 September 2022 22: 24
              That there is already a Kremlin regiment, what else?
              Only "combat training" and other blue dregs are not visible, you can’t build window dressing there, or it’s a matter of parades and ... internal order))))
            2. +2
              15 September 2022 20: 06
              I agree with you. I remember the period of my studies at the Zhukovsky Academy. Khodynka field is our everything. March-April daily shagistics. What a study.
    4. +9
      13 September 2022 09: 15
      Quote: Alien From
      Article plus.

      The article is interesting, but in my opinion, any reform now within the army is pointless. First of all, it is necessary to start with GSh and above, without this, money and time are simply wasted.
  2. +21
    13 September 2022 04: 37
    No airborne forces can compensate for the technical lag in military affairs.
  3. -6
    13 September 2022 05: 13
    In fact, it was the Airborne Forces that stopped the offensive near Kherson ...
    1. +18
      13 September 2022 09: 09
      In fact, it was the Airborne Forces that stopped the offensive near Kherson ...

      But they didn't land there. wink
      1. -6
        13 September 2022 10: 52
        The method of delivery to the battlefield does not matter, the main thing is that they got there on time and completed their b / task.
        1. +13
          13 September 2022 11: 36
          The method of delivery to the battlefield does not matter, the main thing is that they got there on time and completed their b / task.

          There are 2 soldiers.
          One year is engaged in tactical, fire, physical, etc. preparation for war.
          The second half of the year does the same as the first, and for half a year he jumps with a parachute.
          Which one is better prepared?
          And what is cheaper to cook.

          Teaching what is needed in war is the main principle.
          1. -6
            13 September 2022 13: 08
            Sorry, but for a discussion and discussion of such a question, it is necessary to have at least some idea of ​​​​the VDP, and having an idea about military service, training planning, the issue as a whole, at least at the company level. In this case, this conversation does not make sense, good luck.
      2. -5
        13 September 2022 11: 44
        And it doesn’t matter, it’s not the first time the Airborne Forces are pulling out ... I’m not talking about Chechnya where the Airborne Forces saved others, let others achieve such motivation and there will be no preparation of questions, but a parachute will come in handy on the islands of which there are countless and in the regions of the country, anything can be, not airfields can always accept
        1. +6
          13 September 2022 15: 36
          I’m silent about Chechnya where the Airborne Forces saved others, let others achieve such motivation and there will be no preparation of questions

          Ek you bent! The number of infantry units in Chechnya, both in the first and in the second campaign, is much larger than the airborne forces. And the motivation of the infantry was no less than that of the landing forces. But such cases that when reaching the depth of the task, the landing units did not have enough range of fire for standard artillery and they had to attach a lot of MLRS and infantry artillery. So who saved whom there is clearly not such an unambiguous question.
          1. -3
            13 September 2022 22: 43
            Have you forgotten about the 81st regiment and the 131st motorized rifle brigade?
        2. +2
          16 September 2022 11: 10
          Do you know the difference between conscripts who are sent to the Airborne Forces and those who are sent to motorized rifles?
          The Airborne Forces pump out the best!
          Remember your affiliated company in the military registration and enlistment office when you were 16-17 years old.
          Here is your answer with your motivation!
          So there’s all sorts of lala that the Airborne Forces are like a cool guy - yes, all other things being equal, this will not stand up to comparison.
          The Airborne Forces are promoted as elite troops of the type, and their small number relative to motorized riflemen and tankers gives them a reason to distinguish themselves.
          Somewhat I do not detract from the courage of the guys in the landing.
    2. +14
      13 September 2022 09: 17
      Quote: Saboteur_Navy
      In fact, it was the Airborne Forces that stopped the offensive near Kherson ...

      Acting like a simple infantry. In theory, the Airborne Forces were not created for such an application. Although my opinion is that the parachute delivery method makes absolutely no sense.
      1. -1
        13 September 2022 11: 53
        It makes sense when the airfield is not available and this is not necessarily an external enemy, anything can be inside too
        1. +2
          13 September 2022 12: 58
          Quote: Saboteur_Navy
          Anything can be inside

          I agree with this, only there is a nuance, but how to supply this group? If there are roads and the possibility of supply, then isn't it easier to use an unequipped site instead of an airfield, and if there is no possibility of supply, then there is nothing for the landing force to do there.
          1. -2
            13 September 2022 13: 09
            To begin with, you need to land, look around, look around, the situations are different, the regions are different, the parachute will be relevant for a long time, in the USA, for example, the 75th Regiment of Rangers is constantly jumping, but we have huge expanses, we need more strength
      2. +1
        13 September 2022 15: 32
        Acting like simple infantry

        Your remark is relevant for the special forces of the RF Armed Forces, which are often used as line infantry when everyone else has draped. Without the direct subordination of the airborne units to the command responsible for a specific section of the front, such a quota will continue.
    3. +9
      13 September 2022 09: 51
      being parachuted? or joining the battle, like ordinary infantry, dug in and with artillery support?
      1. -8
        13 September 2022 11: 48
        Well, no matter how it was, the Airborne Forces pulled out, not everyone can cite this as an example
    4. +10
      13 September 2022 11: 11
      Yeah, and the 126th coastal defense brigade was smoking.
      In fact, the use of the Airborne Forces as infantry for a defensive line is symptomatic in itself.
      1. -4
        13 September 2022 11: 49
        And they are great, but judging by the media of the Airborne Forces, there were the most
    5. +8
      13 September 2022 11: 17
      Stopped not by landing
  4. -1
    13 September 2022 05: 14
    Article plus. But ... again, instead of deeds, will we reform? Instead of the normal supply of the belligerent army?
  5. 0
    13 September 2022 05: 21
    To the author: the article is interesting, but the operations of the Airborne Forces in the defeat of the Kwantung Army were missed. And they were.
    1. +9
      13 September 2022 11: 16
      Landing forces are mentioned at the end. Their meaning was strictly auxiliary.
  6. +11
    13 September 2022 05: 36
    As always, many thanks to Alexander for the article.
    As for the Airborne Forces, it has long been seen that the times when it was possible to parachute regiments / brigades / divisions have gone forever ... But tactical landings (up to a battalion) will always be needed. As for equipment: airborne helicopters, excellent communications, combat buggies and small transporters of ammunition and weapons, machine guns / RPG / MANPADS / anti-tank missiles, but more ... But the times of BMD and other powerful armored vehicles of the Airborne Forces, apparently passed along with the meaning to have several divisions of paratroopers ... There is nowhere to parachute them, they won’t allow them, times have changed ...
    1. +1
      16 September 2022 11: 16
      Given the size of our country, we need troops with airborne vehicles.
      But their number should be commensurate with the capabilities of the BTA to ensure landing.
      if the VTA cannot transfer more than one landing division from Novgorod to Vladivostok or Sakhalin in a day, then there is no point in keeping five divisions.
      Here we need a thoughtful approach, a systematic analysis.
      1. 0
        16 September 2022 22: 41
        Quote: Evgesha
        Given the size of our country, we need troops with airborne vehicles.

        I don't see the connection. You can have 15 thousand paratroopers and 200 heavy military-technical cooperation, but where will you land them? One well-equipped and trained mech/tank. the division of the ground forces will roll out this landing (those who managed to sit down and gain a foothold) in a matter of days. And if she is not alone ... Imagine, a military invasion of a certain country begins in the Khabarovsk Territory, how can several dozen BMDs help? If several islands of the Kuril chain are captured, will the landing division be able to de-occupy them? The answers are obvious.
        Landing troops are needed, no doubt. But it is pointless to build a colossus out of them in your thoughts that can turn the tide of the entire military operation. The means of modern reconnaissance and air defense will not leave any chances for large-scale military transport traffic with paratroopers and equipment on board. But this does not mean that the Airborne Forces have lost their relevance. They will always exist, because there will always be a need for rapid seizures of dominant heights, bridges and airfields, sabotage and reconnaissance operations will always be relevant. And no one can do all this better than a platoon / company / airborne battalion.
        The Airborne Forces were, are and will be, because their combat missions have not gone anywhere, but the point is in specials. armored vehicles for paratroopers (easily destroyed by all means of destruction of the battlefield) I do not see. When the USSR was planning a swift capture of all of Western Europe, the meaning was traced, now it is not.
  7. +9
    13 September 2022 05: 45
    Продолжение следует ...

    It is assumed that Russian generals are going to prepare for past wars and therefore they are preparing just such a continuation of the development and formation of the Airborne Forces.
    They won’t shoot down in the air, they will crumble into vinaigrette with HIMARS and other artillery and MLRS.
    Air assault groups to perform tasks where skill is more important than numbers - the future of reforming the Airborne Forces.
    Wake up, gentlemen managers and strategists. Your "partners" shit in your pants, and you still dream of visiting the queen (king) and houses on the Spanish Riviera.
    And they promised to give Spain in terms of GDP per capita by 2020 ...
    *****
    stop Nearly missed:
    ... in the light of the experience of fighting in Ukraine and previous wars

    should be hammered into the head that:
    An army of rams led by a lion will always triumph over an army of lions led by a ram
    1. +12
      13 September 2022 05: 50
      do we even have a "problem-free" type of troops? only "sofa" probably.
      1. -4
        13 September 2022 05: 54
        Quote: Aerodrome
        do we even have a "problem-free" type of troops? only "sofa" probably.

        The gold fund of the Russian army is people. Reformers, strategists and other talkers have become problematic in our country.
      2. +3
        13 September 2022 06: 41
        Quote: Aerodrome
        do we even have a "problem-free" type of troops? only "sofa" probably.

        No, sofas are also "that", there is no agreement in them. And where now without interaction ..?
        1. +6
          13 September 2022 10: 44
          No, sofas are also "that", there is no agreement in them. And where now without interaction ..?

          There was, there was "interaction". lol You probably didn't get it. Entire "groups" were to push the unwanted "into the skulls".
          Then the owners of the site realized that the "choir of boys" in marshal's shoulder straps, singing
          "God save the king" attracts few visitors and ... money.
          1. +1
            13 September 2022 11: 14
            Well, now there is a choir of singers, all kinds of dichlorvos ... again, blessed Mikhan))
      3. -4
        13 September 2022 07: 51
        We also know how to make stools.


        ......
        And teapots
    2. +8
      13 September 2022 09: 23
      Quote: yuriy55
      Wake up, gentlemen managers and strategists.

      And they don't sleep. All forces are thrown at the option "how to agree." This is not why money and real estate was accumulated abroad. Only one thing they don’t understand is that the process of deriban us as a nation has already been launched and no one will give them anything. We are all in the same boat. But for them, hope dies last, and this is very bad for the country.
    3. -4
      13 September 2022 19: 44
      Quote: yuriy55
      There is an assumption that Russian generals are going to prepare for past wars
      Is nuclear war in your past or is it still in the future?
      Quote: yuriy55
      They won’t shoot down in the air, they will crumble into vinaigrette with HIMARS and other artillery and MLRS.
      HIMARS need coordinates, and the landing party is one, mobile. What will be injected into the heads?
  8. Kim
    +2
    13 September 2022 06: 20
    it turns out that ours in the War were no worse than the German-English ones, but planning was frankly no good
    1. +10
      13 September 2022 11: 17
      Planning, communication, few planes, there was no help from strike aircraft.
      The rest was quite up to par, but ours seemed to fight no better.
  9. -4
    13 September 2022 06: 41
    the beginning is not bad, but the memories of the times of the Second World War are clearly not relevant now.
    Well, the signature under the article is Timokhin. We are waiting for proposals from landing aircraft carriers.
  10. +1
    13 September 2022 06: 45
    Thank you very much for the research article, it is clear that a lot of work has been done! We look forward to continuing!
    Interestingly, in the photo "Soviet paratroopers at the TB-3. Photo by Semyon Fridland" - some of the paratroopers stand with reserve parachutes, and some without them. Was a reserve parachute used in WWII in combat landing?
  11. -11
    13 September 2022 06: 50
    Let the author tell the paratroopers this August 2 ...
  12. -4
    13 September 2022 07: 02
    Well, according to the article, otherwise here many advantages began to be distributed to the author ...
    Sorry to the author, but you don’t see beyond your nose, our country is very large in territory and different in composition, don’t forget Chechnya, Dagestan ... We need mobile troops in the form of the Airborne Forces, by the way, compared to the United States, not so much the United States has more than 90 thousand airborne forces ...
    It is possible to make our airborne forces heavier in one case, as, for example, in Afghanistan, the author apparently does not know anything about the 103rd Vitebsk airborne division in Kabul and the 145th airborne regiment in Bagram ...
    But there is no need to abandon the light equipment of the Airborne Forces ...
    And it’s worth remembering all the same 2 Chechnya, but there was no mass landing there, but the mobility of the Airborne Forces helped a lot, where it was the Airborne Forces that rescued motorized riflemen more than once ... By the way, it was the Airborne Forces that repelled the most massive strike in the Kherson region ...
    Yes, and I would not put an end to the mass landing of troops precisely by parachute, especially since we have islands to the fig and they are cut off from the mainland and strategically very important, and one Marine Corps will not be enough
    1. +11
      13 September 2022 10: 20
      Quote: Saboteur_Navy
      Sorry to the author, but you don’t see beyond your nose, our country is very large in territory and different in composition, don’t forget Chechnya, Dagestan ... We need mobile troops in the form of the Airborne Forces, by the way, compared to the United States, not so much the United States has more than 90 thousand airborne forces ...

      So no one has anything against air mobility. The question is different - why does the landing force need a huge amount of parachute-landing equipment, which has nothing to throw away, nothing to supply "in the field" and which has seen a parachute only during exercises for the last 70 years? Why squeeze the performance characteristics of the same infantry fighting vehicles into the Procrustean bed of the parachute landing platform, if in 99% of cases the infantry fighting vehicles are landed by landing, unloaded at the airfield and then go to the front to fight in the same formation with motorized riflemen? Isn't it better to calculate the MGH of the airborne forces equipment, based on its transportation "airfield-airfield", without taking into account the one and a half ton platform, which also cuts down the vertical dimension of the equipment?
      Quote: Saboteur_Navy
      Yes, and I would not put an end to the mass landing of troops precisely by parachute, especially since we have islands to the fig and they are cut off from the mainland and strategically very important, and one Marine Corps will not be enough

      In order to land troops on the island, it is necessary that the Navy be able to gain supremacy at sea and in the air, and that the enemy's air defenses be suppressed.
      If our Navy is capable of doing all this, then why do we need an Airborne Forces with such and such a fleet? smile
      1. +1
        13 September 2022 11: 16
        In my opinion, Alexey, you are wasting your time on a character who cannot spell the word "parachute" without errors and makes daring geographical discoveries in the style of a 5th grade high school.
      2. -7
        13 September 2022 11: 40
        What is the US fleet near Novaya Zemlya? There are islands to the fig, and the United States will try to capture them precisely with the forces of the Airborne Forces and not the Marine Corps ...
      3. +4
        13 September 2022 15: 47
        To capture the islands, the marines have jumping air assault battalions. Moreover, the Marines are a fleet, so there is a unified command and control system and interaction has been established.
      4. +4
        13 September 2022 18: 12
        "In order to land troops on the island, it is necessary that the Navy be able to gain supremacy at sea and in the air, and that the enemy's air defenses be suppressed." - if the fleet succeeds, then it has marines, why is there an airborne force there?
        1. +1
          14 September 2022 10: 37
          And I'm talking about this: smile
          Quote: Alexey RA
          If our Navy is capable of doing all this, then why do we need an Airborne Forces with such and such a fleet?
      5. -1
        13 September 2022 19: 50
        Quote: Alexey RA
        If our Navy is capable of doing all this, then why do we need an Airborne Forces with such and such a fleet? smile
        Then, it is very expensive to create heavy marines for this Navy, and it will operate only by the sea. No, the personnel can be taken anywhere, but the special equipment, which makes the marines heavy, is definitely not worth dragging back and forth. Just imagine our counterpart AAV-7 in the mountains of the Caucasus or the steppes of Ukraine.
        And basic aviation can also gain air supremacy.
        1. +3
          14 September 2022 10: 45
          Quote: bk0010
          Then, it is very expensive to create heavy marines for this Navy, and it will operate only by the sea. No, the personnel can be taken anywhere, but the special equipment, which makes the marines heavy, is definitely not worth dragging back and forth. Just imagine our counterpart AAV-7 in the mountains of the Caucasus or the steppes of Ukraine.

          You might think that light parachute-borne equipment would look better under the same conditions. wink
          I'm not talking about the peculiarities of parachute landings on our islands, which, firstly, are somewhat smaller than Sicily, and, secondly, they are distinguished by rugged terrain ("a dense pile of hills and low-mountain massifs") and are located in a zone of extremely difficult weather conditions.
          No, in theory, parachute landing on a half-plane with ideal weather will work. But we have the Kuril ridge.
          1. -1
            14 September 2022 11: 06
            Quote: Alexey RA
            You might think that light parachute-borne equipment would look better under the same conditions.
            1. She already is. 2. She can swim. 3. In the mountains, it will undoubtedly be better than a barn like AAV.
    2. 0
      13 September 2022 23: 23
      USA Airborne more than 90 thousand

      The United States has no airborne forces at all, wake up.

      Infantry Brigade Combat Teams with the word Infantry, as it were, hints that this is infantry, the MOS 11B Infantryman of military personnel and the name of the units 101 and 82 Airborne Division, type 1st Battalion, 327th Infantry Regiment, etc. also hint at this.
  13. +3
    13 September 2022 07: 10
    Alexander always writes competent and relevant articles, and as time has shown, he understands many issues much better than the head of the General Staff or the Minister of Defense. Thanks to the author.
  14. +11
    13 September 2022 07: 17
    What can be learned from this ugly text bloated with unnecessary historical parallels? Landing forces are completely pointless to use for serious operational tasks. The decision to load the landing force with heavy equipment did not increase its combat power, but completely buried the military branch, now it is just a suitcase without a handle.
    Why does it make sense to use the landing really? Destruction of headquarters. Destruction of fuel depots, art warehouses, railway junctions, port infrastructure. It's all. Success can only be achieved when no more than an hour passes from the moment of throwing to the attack. That is, you need to throw it right on the head.
    Why did the USSR lead such an amazingly mediocre and stupid line regarding the Airborne Forces, which did not represent any serious military value? Because it was the Airborne Forces that were considered elite troops in the USSR. Service in the Airborne Forces gave reason to be proud of, contributed to the growth of patriotism and readiness to fight for the Motherland. The value of moral and volitional qualities in a war is decisive if the war lasts more than a week. Representing nothing in terms of solving specific tasks, the Airborne Forces were extremely important and in demand for the education of soldiers.
    Conclusions? If we talk about the war itself, the airborne units must be trained as DRGs. That is, they are dropped on the enemy's headquarters, they cut out the headquarters (like the Germans once did), after which they switch to "pasture", breaking out of the tightening ring and switching to guerrilla warfare. They try to either move to the front, or choose the direction to the enemy's supply nodes, trying to cause maximum damage.
    Attempts to use them as part of an offensive will only lead to the destruction of the landing without the slightest benefit. It is impossible to restore their main purpose in the USSR. 30 years of the decay of the nation cannot be defeated in a reasonable time, alas. Besides, there is no way. Rallying the people under the current configuration of power and wonderful business ....
    1. +4
      13 September 2022 09: 05
      Why does it make sense to use the landing really? Destruction of headquarters. Destruction of fuel depots, art warehouses, railway junctions, port infrastructure. It's all.

      This is all the task of aviation.
      1. 0
        13 September 2022 10: 00
        Aviation cannot and will not cope. Too expensive toys, against which there are a lot of cheaper and more effective ones. A soldier is always a soldier, and will always solve such and similar tasks.
        1. +5
          13 September 2022 11: 22
          Special Operations Forces? Special purpose brigades GU GSh?
          They cannot destroy headquarters?
          R.S. if aviation cannot cope with the destruction of railway junctions and fuel depots of the enemy, then, excuse me, "cover".
          1. +1
            13 September 2022 19: 33
            Expand the composition of the brigades of the General Staff? Do you know how much and what their preparation costs? There are no and cannot be tasks in war that can be performed by someone unique. This is war. They kill on it, destroy it outright, but you still need to win.
            The plane costs absolutely monstrous money. It can take off only from platforms arranged more complicated than spaceships. And in a serious war, these expensive and extremely fragile toys will run out very, very quickly. See an example? One of the parties no longer has aircraft to solve strategic problems, have you noticed? And the war is by no means over. And look - they are coming! It is unlikely that they will turn the tide, but the soldiers did their job. That's how it works. Something is destroyed, someone is dead... others take his place.
  15. -12
    13 September 2022 07: 38
    The author and why are you not in the General Staff))))?)))), since such a super-duper reasonable)))
    1. +15
      13 September 2022 11: 20
      I do not drink. Therefore unsuitable.
  16. IVZ
    -7
    13 September 2022 07: 39
    From my point of view, motorized riflemen need to be reformed so that they solve their tasks, and not shift them to the Airborne Forces. If the Airborne Forces are forced to deal with something that is not their own, in general, then this does not mean that they need to be somehow reformatted. This is a completely self-sufficient branch of the military, and they themselves will carry out the reforms they need and develop equipment requirements based precisely on their tasks.
    1. -2
      13 September 2022 08: 28
      From my point of view, motorized riflemen need to be reformed so that they solve their tasks, and not shift them to the Airborne Forces.

      Quite right. Everything rests on the courage, perseverance and heroism of the Airborne Forces.
      But it is necessary not to completely "reform", but at least bring it to normal staff positions, just conduct training, and not worry about throwing a grenade anywhere, bring everything to automatism ...
      An excursion into history is informative, but has nothing to do with the current situation.
      Since it is difficult to reform when there is no "picture of the future" in the heads of the leadership.
    2. +13
      13 September 2022 08: 35
      Let's admit. And then what will the Airborne Forces do? What tasks will they perform then?

      The Airborne Forces are used as motorized infantry, not because the motorized infantry cannot do something, but because the Airborne Forces cannot be used differently.

      This is a completely self-sufficient branch of the military, and they themselves will carry out the reforms they need and develop equipment requirements based precisely on their tasks.


      What has been done for a long time, and as a result, they themselves requested extremely expensive, weak, but airborne equipment that cannot be landed in real combat conditions with at least some kind of air defense system. Of course, in high offices it was supposed to land after the complete suppression of the enemy air defense system, but in life they cannot achieve this even in Ukraine.
      1. IVZ
        -3
        13 September 2022 08: 42
        And what for them then to use if for them there are no tasks? And in general, if there are no regular tasks for the most trained units, this is a planning problem, i. headquarters
        1. +10
          13 September 2022 08: 49
          This is exactly the question I'm asking you. Why, in this case, leave the Airborne Forces at all? What exactly will they do?

          it is a scheduling problem i.e. headquarters


          In this case, it is not a problem of planning or headquarters at all. It's just that the real conditions do not coincide with the formal tasks of the armed forces. Well, it’s impossible to make a mass landing in real hostilities, well, no way. More precisely, it can be produced, but it will end in complete defeat even before the landing.
        2. +16
          13 September 2022 10: 34
          Quote: IVZ
          And what for them then to use if for them there are no tasks?

          And then, that all attempts to reform the Airborne Forces, bringing them into line with current realities, consistently failed by these same Airborne Forces. At the same time, the paratroopers had no rational explanation - they immediately appealed to the masses, saying that the evil officials were dispersing the only combat-ready branch of the armed forces.
          Our Airborne Forces froze in bronze from the time of Margelov, when they were propped up by numerous SA and parachuted by an equally numerous VTA. The landing force is still being built according to the patterns of a big war in Europe with limited use of nuclear weapons - despite the fact that there is no one on earth to wage this war, and there is nothing to throw them out in such a war.
          The entire experience of wars of the last half century is consistently discarded by paratroopers as special cases. 345 gvpdp in a real war had to be re-equipped with military equipment and reorganized in new states? Nonsense, an isolated case. Airborne Forces are used exclusively by landing landing? Nonsense, special cases. Did the enemy saturate the troops of MANPADS and MD air defense systems, closing the most profitable landing echelons? Nonsense, our miraculous heroes will not endure such a thing. The hour "H" will come - and then the formidable flocks of An-124 and Il-76, maneuvering between the rising mushrooms, will be drawn to Europe to throw troops in the rear of the adversary. smile
          Quote: IVZ
          And in general, if there are no regular tasks for the most trained units, this is a planning problem, i. headquarters

          Well, that means we will keep three divisions in the rear - in anticipation of a limited nuclear war.
          The Airborne Forces in its current form is the WWI cavalry on the fields of the Great Patriotic War.
          1. +7
            13 September 2022 11: 35
            Here I completely agree! I will subscribe to every word.
            The "landing lobby" is one of the most harmful phenomena in our army.
            1. -4
              13 September 2022 22: 28
              Naval (surface) - no less wrecking.
          2. +2
            13 September 2022 15: 22
            I will just write a message that I support you, you wrote my thoughts.
    3. +3
      13 September 2022 11: 34
      From my point of view, motorized riflemen need to be reformed so that they solve their tasks, and not shift them to the Airborne Forces.

      In order to reform them, it is necessary, among other things, to stop spending money on nonsense like airborne equipment and eliminate discrimination in the selection of conscripts.
      If the Airborne Forces are forced to deal with something that is not their own, in general, then this does not mean that they need to be somehow reformatted.

      This is a serious reason to think about why and in what quantity the Airborne Forces are needed in principle for the Russian army. The current situation is clearly not normal.
      This is a completely self-sufficient branch of the military and they themselves will carry out the reforms they need

      The Airborne Forces are part of the armed forces and they should not reform anything on their own.
  17. -12
    13 September 2022 08: 40
    How much can we already talk about the "reformation" of the Airborne Forces, in fact, the desire to destroy the Airborne Forces, lower them to the level of our envious "partners". That's it, really...
    Tired of it! They teach, they teach!
    - We teach, we teach ...
    - Teach better than your spider!


    It is not the Airborne Forces that need to be reformed, but our ground forces, primarily tank and motorized rifle. We must already understand that a compact army is not for us, having increased its strength to 1-1,5 million. It is necessary to remove the stupid 1 year of urgent service, increasing the term of military service, dividing the constitutional duty into direct military service in the armed forces and working out in the army fund for all the unfit, with a mandatory course of initial military training.

    Front and rear, the basis of the country's defense, for everyone. If you want and you can, you serve for 3-5 years, if you don't want, you can't, you work for the army and navy. This should apply to absolutely everyone, including girls (equality). To this already contract soldiers, for special forces and units with increased combat readiness.

    The best airborne forces in the world, with their equipment, leave alone, simply, you don’t need to plug all the holes in the airborne forces, give them other people's tasks that tanks and heavy infantry should solve.
    1. +11
      13 September 2022 09: 08
      That is, you propose to remove the population for a long time from economic activity and completely destroy the Russian economy. Why destroy? Yes, because we have an economic crisis, even under the conditions that only men serve and only 1 year, and all the unfit are sent to the reserve without any "working off". As soon as workers, and hence GDP and tax deductions, become a multiple less (as you suggest), everything will collapse.
      1. -4
        13 September 2022 10: 15
        Quote: rait
        That is, you propose to remove the population for a long time from economic activity and completely destroy the Russian economy.

        The Russian economy is being destroyed by something completely different. Secondly, you do not delve into the meaning. Serve for 3-5 years should be those who want and can (the best for the army), and, to the size of the army, which will be determined. Those who are superfluous and unfit will just be engaged in economic activity, that is, they will raise the country's economy, and, deducting additional revenues to the country's budget for the period of the established "civil service".
        This will be the strengthening of Russia, including its prepared mobilization reserve.

        The trouble with our economy is not a lack of population, but fools and traitors, who are still fattening due to the sale of raw materials and the Soviet margin of safety. How many of them are on good salaries, draw graphs and diagrams, hold pompous presentations, with a plot plot - money, profit, here and now. There is no mind and desire to raise production, build new factories, but to optimize - please, cut off the "extra" fingers and kidneys from the production organism. They save, but not on themselves, loved ones. The oligarchs, in general, are a separate issue, these parasites and their mother will be sold for foreign currency to "partners", they would also fulfill "contractual obligations" to Hitler, what can we say about Ukraine and the West in general, with the values ​​​​of which they are soul and body.
        1. +5
          13 September 2022 15: 18
          Serve 3-5 years should be those who want and can (the best for the army),


          But you yourself wrote that the service life should be raised. And this means that over this year, the guys, instead of working and raising the economy, will not only not produce anything, but on the contrary, I will only consume. You may not be aware, but a soldier must at least be moved, clothed, fed, provided with housing, even pay allowances. And as a maximum, even more money will be poured into its preparation.

          And if now the economy can barely withstand 1 year of service (and even then with a bunch of "buts"), then it cannot withstand more. At least the peacetime economy.

          The trouble with our economy is not a lack of population, but fools and traitors, who are still fattening due to the sale of raw materials and the Soviet margin of safety.


          Of course, there are fools and traitors, but I will not continue this topic since I will slander the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. But no one has canceled the base of the economy, and the base is the working population. The military does not belong to it, they only consume.

          Oligarchs are a separate issue altogether.


          "There will be no revision of privatization" (c) You know who.

          deducting for the period of the established "civil service", additional revenues to the country's budget.


          O! You want to introduce a new tax. Are you by any chance from United Russia? If not, then join, go far.
          1. +4
            13 September 2022 16: 33
            What boring, dull things you say .... Practically, tedious .... There is no patriotic enthusiasm in you .... Here's how it is possible with people like you to strive for new heights?)))) You about uplifting, and you with "profitability threshold", "payback" and other chiaroscuro wink
            It is necessary that everything be fast and uplifting, if not on the fields ... of operations, then at least with the production of 100500 aircraft for cold storage. when or there still something great. Here, the largest viewing wheel in Europe was built, for example. And round. It just doesn’t spin, but they built the same .... So the landing ... And there are parachutes, and specific boxes, not like those of a mahr .... True, they don’t jump, but along the land, but that’s it ... But what are the traditions? Fire!!!
    2. IVZ
      -4
      13 September 2022 09: 18
      The best airborne forces in the world, with their equipment, leave alone, simply, you don’t need to plug all the holes in the airborne forces, give them other people's tasks that tanks and heavy infantry should solve.

      Basically agree with you. Although some of your proposals are still too radical in my opinion. In fact, if you look at what a significant part of potential recruits are doing, I don’t think that their temporary withdrawal from um .. activities will bring something down there. Moreover, practice shows. that those who served urgently are better adapted to civilian life.
    3. +10
      13 September 2022 10: 37
      Quote: Per se.
      The best airborne forces in the world, with their equipment, leave alone, simply, you don’t need to plug all the holes in the airborne forces, give them other people's tasks that tanks and heavy infantry should solve.

      I am afraid that the reform of the ground forces will lead to the fact that the traditional airborne forces will generally be put an end to. Because if the landing is not needed for plugging holes operational strengthening of threatened areas, then what other tasks do classic airborne forces have?
      1. -6
        13 September 2022 12: 25
        Quote: Alexey RA
        I am afraid that the reform of the ground forces will lead to the fact that the traditional airborne forces will generally be put an end to.
        Well, if you want the destruction of our army at all, there are so many things they can put an end to.

        It seems that the requirements for efficiency and mobility in modern warfare will only increase. A tanker can be replaced by a robot, even an infantryman. A robot is unlikely to replace a paratrooper. We need the Airborne Forces, even because of the expanses of Russia alone, the impassability of some areas. Finally, the very fact of the presence of strong airborne forces and the possibility of conducting a landing operation can already be considered a deterrent for "partners" as the use of nuclear weapons. By the way, so far no one has thought of exposing the "uselessness" of nuclear missiles, which are both expensive to manufacture and expensive to maintain, but have been idle for decades, and, perhaps, will never be used at all.

        About the "duralumin" BMDs, that no one criticizes the Yankees for their HMMWV with a machine gun, and this is incomparably weaker than the BMD-4M in all respects. No one criticizes the German bug "Wiesel" that did not stand next to our landing equipment. But, no one, oh, the paradox, does not require the development of the same convertoplanes as those of the "enlightened" West. In general, everything in which we somehow lagged behind us is cheerfully criticized, there is no VTOL aircraft and there is no need, like aircraft carriers, convertiplanes. But, everything that the West has lagged behind in, we are in a hurry to bury, or optimize to their backward level, as with the Airborne Forces.

        Tales about the uselessness of the landing, let them be on the conscience of those who pour water on someone else's mill, out of thoughtlessness or self-interest.
        How the West used the landing in Iraq, you can get acquainted, who are interested. I'll just attach a table for your information.
        1. +9
          13 September 2022 14: 46
          Quote: Per se.
          Finally, the very fact of the presence of strong airborne forces and the possibility of conducting a landing operation can already be considered a deterrent for "partners" as the use of nuclear weapons. By the way, so far no one has thought of exposing the "uselessness" of nuclear missiles, which are both expensive to manufacture and expensive to maintain, but have been idle for decades, and, perhaps, will never be used at all.

          The Strategic Missile Forces and the nuclear triad have two huge differences from the Airborne Forces.
          Firstly, the Strategic Missile Forces do not have such a wild gap between combat units and their means of delivery, as is the case with the Airborne Forces, which have three divisions, but only one regiment of carriers. Secondly, combat units of the Strategic Missile Forces are delivered to enemy territory inevitably and practically without losses.
          That's when the missile defense capabilities are equal to the air defense capabilities of at least the enemy's ground forces - then it will be possible to talk about the need to reform the Strategic Missile Forces. smile
          Quote: Per se.
          No one criticizes the German bug "Wiesel" that did not stand next to our landing equipment.

          So the Wiesel is not parachute-borne at all. With our money, this is a tracked combat platform of air assault formations weighing 3-4 tons with the possibility of being transferred by helicopters. What do we have in this class for odshbr? wink
          Quote: Per se.
          How the West used the landing in Iraq, you can get acquainted, who are interested. I'll just attach a table for your information.

          That is, the landing force can be used with absolute air superiority and complete suppression of the enemy's air defense system. And in a war against a third world country.
          1. -4
            13 September 2022 19: 24
            Quote: Alexey RA
            That is, the landing force can be used with absolute air superiority and complete suppression of the enemy's air defense system. And in a war against a third world country.

            Ukraine is a country of what world, well, even if it’s the “fourth”, what are our problems without landing, but with complete air supremacy?
            The capture of Crete by the Germans, what country of the world was then Britain, with its dominance in the Mediterranean Sea, where the Germans actually did not have a surface fleet?

            Landing is always a greater risk, so why engage in demagoguery. The capture of the same Crete would not have been possible in any other way for the Germans. The whole question is whether it was necessary to capture Crete in this way, or whether Malta would be more important.

            Alexei, you are distorting, then there are no planes for the Airborne Forces, so maybe we need to have more transport workers of different classes, maybe we should do convertiplanes?
            That, "Wiesel" is not parachute-borne, so these are their problems, our ASU-57 was better, although it appeared much earlier. Our infantry fighting vehicles can be transported by MI-26, but if there was a need, on the basis of the old ASU-57, you can make a car for the Mi-8.

            You are looking for reasons, not opportunities. So you can deny everything, and such technical "nihilism" is very convenient, but, only, not for the benefit of the Russian army.
            1. +3
              14 September 2022 11: 12
              Quote: Per se.
              Ukraine is a country of what world, well, let at least the "fourth"

              In the dreams of our propagandists.
              In fact, in some respects, Ukrainian industry even surpassed ours. "Motor Sich", "Ivchenko-Progress" and "Zorya" - "Mashproekt" will not let you lie.
              Quote: Per se.
              what are our problems without landing, but with complete air supremacy?

              You will be surprised, but our problems are the same as those of the Yankees in Vietnam: politicians cannot decide what they need. Are we waging a full-fledged war, or are we bringing freedom and democracy liberate the brotherly people. At the same time, they demand to conduct hostilities according to the second scenario, but they demand results as in the first.
              Quote: Per se.
              The capture of Crete by the Germans, what country of the world was then Britain

              On Crete? Fourth - units hastily evacuated from Greece with a wild shortage of heavy and group. With our money - our encirclement who came out to their 41st.
              Quote: Per se.
              Landing is always a greater risk, so why engage in demagoguery. The capture of the same Crete would not have been possible in any other way for the Germans. The whole question is whether it was necessary to capture Crete in this way, or whether Malta would be more important.

              He-he-he... You remembered it well. In Crete there were scraps of the army - and there the landing rolled. There were personnel units in Malta - and even after all the processing of the island, the Germans and Italians did not dare to poke their noses there. Or that someone thinks that Kesselring, if he really needed it, could not convey Rommel's opinion? Especially if you hint to someone about the possibility of distinguishing yourself for the Luftwaffe? wink
              Quote: Per se.
              Alexei, you are distorting, then there are no planes for the Airborne Forces, so maybe we need to have more transport workers of different classes, maybe we should do convertiplanes?

              Do you think that if the USSR could not, then at least Russia will succeed? How much could the mighty Soviet VTA throw out there after mobilization? Division and regiment?
              It's not about the planes. The fact is that three and a half hundred infantry fighting vehicles, two hundred armored personnel carriers and a hundred self-propelled guns, not counting support vehicles and rears, are too many to throw away and too few for normal combat operations as an infantry reinforcement.
              Quote: Per se.
              You are looking for reasons, not opportunities.

              But if there are no opportunities - why dream about the unrealizable? The USSR has been gone for 30 years now, we live in a fragment of the former power - and we must live within our means. And not to preserve the legacy of the past, inapplicable in the new environment.
          2. +4
            13 September 2022 23: 28
            Moreover, if these third world countries have been in isolation for 10 years and no one saturates MANPADS.
        2. 0
          16 September 2022 11: 25
          And what about the HPE in Iraq???
          And who had air supremacy ???
          A successful landing is in the absence of enemy air defense counteraction, without air defense suppression, no landing will land anywhere by parachute ..
      2. 0
        13 September 2022 18: 17
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeNy1cziJ3E
      3. -5
        13 September 2022 19: 58
        Quote: Alexey RA
        why, if the landing is not needed to plug holes in the operational reinforcement of threatened areas, then what other tasks do the classic airborne forces have?
        Remember how many hours our frontier outpost was shot, and help kept coming and going... Or how a paratrooper company in Chechnya fought for many hours on our territory. Here the landing can be a lifesaver so that this does not happen again. And no one but him. Or the airfield will be captured somewhere in the Far East. What will you fight back?
        1. +5
          14 September 2022 11: 23
          Quote: bk0010
          Remember how many hours our frontier outpost was shot, and help kept coming and going...

          And how could a classic parachute landing help in this situation? Smear the battalion in a thin layer over the surrounding mountains?
          For such cases, you need odshbr and army aviation. And no one has anything against them.
          Quote: bk0010
          Or how a landing company in Chechnya fought for many hours on our territory.

          Even better. The same situation as above, but also with near-zero visibility.
          To avoid a repetition of height 776, not paratroopers are needed. And normal planning of operations, normal heavy weapons and interaction. Namely, covering the forward detachments with their own artillery, communications and advanced spotters.
          Do you want to fight with a numerically superior enemy, even bandits? Provide superior firepower. So that not the infantry fought back with one rifleman (the ammo to which it also carries on its own two feet), but the artillery covered the enemy on the way.
          Better, of course, are the Air Force and the PAN assigned to the infantry (the aircraft reach further, so the depth of the infantry's work can be greater) - but the flyers are too dependent on the weather.
          1. -1
            14 September 2022 12: 26
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Smear the battalion in a thin layer over the surrounding mountains?
            They will come and help you within an hour.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            For such cases, you need odshbr and army aviation
            For army aviation, the radius is painfully modest, for the VTA - the whole country.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And normal planning of operations, normal heavy weapons and interaction.
            Let's be realistic. All this is not and is not expected (no, there are chances for normal heavy weapons), but there is a landing. And he has Nona.
            1. +1
              15 September 2022 10: 07
              Quote: bk0010
              They will come and help you within an hour.

              The terrain in the outpost area (typical for those parts):

              An hour later, the landing party will only find those who crashed during landing. I'm not talking about the spread of landings from 3-4 kilometers (lower is impossible - MANPADS).
              Quote: bk0010
              For army aviation, the radius is painfully modest, for the VTA - the whole country.

              What's the point of having a radius to the whole country if it's impossible to jump into the mountains? With the same success, you can land a parachute assault on Serpentine.
              Quote: bk0010
              Let's be realistic. All this is not and is not expected

              Well then, why do we need the Airborne Forces? With such introductory landings, they will be thrown onto mountains, onto water, into fog, or directly into the location of enemy reserves. And even more likely - to apply as before, in the same ranks with the infantry.
    4. +3
      13 September 2022 11: 38
      Quote: Per se.
      It is necessary to remove the stupid 1 year of urgent service, increasing the term of military service, dividing the constitutional duty into direct military service in the armed forces and working out in the army fund for all the unfit, with a mandatory course of initial military training.

      Here, at work at lunchtime, I drank tea in the dining room. And at the next table, our women discussed how best to get their children and grandchildren out of military service. I ask them:
      "Girls, do you give gifts to your boys on February 23 on Defenders of the Fatherland Day?"
      " Well, yes..."
      "That is, you are positioning your guys as future defenders of the Fatherland, but you are doing everything to smear your offspring from this very defense of our Fatherland."
      Here is such a dissonance in the minds of parents.
    5. +4
      13 September 2022 15: 58
      It is not the Airborne Forces that need to be reformed, but our ground forces, primarily tank and motorized rifle

      And what exactly does not suit you in the current structure of tank and motorized rifle units and subunits?
      1. -4
        13 September 2022 19: 41
        Quote: Old Tankman
        And what exactly does not suit you in the current structure of tank and motorized rifle

        At least it's time to decide what is more needed for tanks, a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, or an infantry fighting vehicle with a heavy armored personnel carrier.
        With the training of motorized riflemen, with an understanding of the difference between fighting against militants using guerrilla tactics and war with full-fledged armies.

        With the appointment of police equipment using MRAP technology (mine resistant ambush protected, - mine-resistant, ambush protected, that is, resistant to mine explosions and protected from ambush attacks), and army equipment, to protect Russia from aggressors. With an understanding of the geography of the war, where there are actually no rivers, and where there are water barriers all the time, so as not to indiscriminately advocate against floating equipment.
        Finally, the small arms of our infantry. Is the same microwave really needed or is it still relevant for the infantry squad and the SVD.
        1. 0
          16 September 2022 23: 02
          So this is not a reform, but thoughts about equipping the Ground Forces with weapons and military equipment.
          MRAP in our troops is mainly only in Special Forces, intelligence and went a little to the Airborne Forces. And the guys are very happy with Typhoons. And also Uralami "Tornado".
          And yes, the core of the Ground Forces training program is a war with a highly organized enemy like NATO. With irregular formations - only a small fraction.
  18. -2
    13 September 2022 09: 33
    In fact, there have always been "light" and "heavy". Pelstats and hoplites, velites and hastati, hussars and cuirassiers, etc.

    Airborne - rapid reaction forces.

    We need 18 airborne brigades, each numbering about 4000, united in 6 divisions, 1-2 for each district.
    18 modern military camps in the suburbs of regional centers, with an airfield nearby, a railway line directly to the HF for quick loading, 1-2 highways.
    Each brigade has its own training camp, a light shooting range, each division has its own training ground.
    Brigade: reconnaissance battalion, 4 main battalions, 2 "Non" divisions, communications, sappers, medicine, etc. Deep reconnaissance battalion for delicate tasks.

    Less jumping, more fighting on the ground. soldier
    1. +5
      13 September 2022 10: 49
      In the case of the database, will they again fight on aluminum and without their normal artillery? And where is this amount? Where is it at least theoretically possible to land a division?
      1. -4
        13 September 2022 10: 56
        In the case of the database, will they again fight on aluminum and without their normal artillery?

        For now, yes. In the future, the main vehicle is probably a heavy infantry fighting vehicle with a good gun.
        And where is this amount? Where is it at least theoretically possible to land a division?

        Treat them like light infantry. Like now. It still won't be enough. If they manage to manage, then the size of the brigade can be increased to 6000. More - already a horde. laughing
        1. +7
          13 September 2022 11: 17
          Excuse me, if the main equipment is heavy infantry fighting vehicles, then why the title of landing? For pathos? Can you, walking in ideas, imagine a target for the brigade's paratroopers?

          The Airborne Forces cannot fight on their aluminum and their artillery. This is the question of light infantry.
          1. -3
            13 September 2022 11: 48
            Excuse me, if the main equipment is heavy infantry fighting vehicles, then why the title of landing? For pathos? Can you, walking in ideas, imagine a target for the brigade's paratroopers?

            For nothing. But if they insist, you can leave the name. The United States has the same cavalry. laughing
            The Airborne Forces cannot fight on their aluminum and their artillery. This is the question of light infantry.

            I agree. In the future, it seems to me that there will be a symbiosis of a tank and an infantry fighting vehicle, it’s just that there’s no point in super-armor already. BMP with a tank gun.
            1. 0
              13 September 2022 12: 02
              I agree with you on both points here. You can leave the name. The tank is going down in history, and the Russian infantry fighting vehicles need to add cast iron.
    2. -6
      13 September 2022 11: 09
      To begin with, it is necessary to train the combined arms commanders in the competent use of the potential of the paratroopers, to drum them in that this is not their "mabuta", but a "piece" highly professional tool.
      What you propose, more or less, it has always been and is now, it functioned in full even in the 90s. Any paratrooper prays for his commanders, who did not allow the Airborne Forces to be defeated in those dashing times and under Serdyukovism.
      1. +4
        13 September 2022 16: 07
        That's it piece, for certain specific tasks. Completed the task, brought to the rear for recovery in anticipation of a new task.
        And we have as many as 4 divisions and 3 brigades.
        It’s somehow bold during the war to keep 4 divisions in anticipation of landing missions. But no more than 8 brigades will be enough for air assault operations. Two for each county. And then in the Western and Southern districts, with their small area, there are a lot of 2 brigades.
      2. 0
        16 September 2022 16: 14
        You just need to teach everyone at the same level!!
        It is necessary to teach both the landing force and the motorized rifleman in the same way, not in the sense of the same disciplines, but the level of quality should be the same !!!
        And then motorized rifles will become much better.
        The point of the second is to bring out the combat training of motorized riflemen and tankers in terms of quality and intensity, as in the landing, and that's it.

        And this one, if we look at the enemy, then there is an army aviation brigade in the tank and mechanized divisions - more than 120 helicopters.
        it turns out that a tank or mechanized division can land a local tactical landing based on its needs.
        And what for then they landing troops???
  19. -5
    13 September 2022 09: 59
    Only thanks to the Airborne Forces could the NWO begin. Alas, combined arms units are not able to perform tasks in the required volume. their level of training is "window dressing", "parquet parades" which is what sickens the sun. Senior bosses have long become businessmen and have forgotten about the BP, only reports and a photo report. The Airborne Forces are effective when the ENTIRE ARMY is fighting !!! They fulfilled their tasks, only there was no one to develop success. And the Airborne Forces are not a "steel fist". We don’t take the Russian Guard seriously in such databases at all. The Airborne Forces have tasks: "Reconnaissance-strike actions in a reconnaissance detachment and mixed. so. gr. aviation", "Air mobile. blocking", "Air-raid. action", "Air-assault. attack", etc. d. But since others cannot fulfill their own, the Airborne Forces have to commit GERISM on the moral and strong-willed. And no matter how much they say what the Airborne Forces (staff, structure, weapons) should be like, as long as the landing force is a lifesaver EVERYWHERE, in all types of combat, it will all be in vain. The problem of errors in planning, organizing interaction and management, and this is to the General Staff. For successful operations, comprehensive combat support is also needed (intelligence, communications, air defense, engineering, rhbz, reb, camouflage ...) and logistics, only everything in the complex brings victory.
    1. +9
      13 September 2022 11: 13
      With what fright thanks to the Airborne Forces? Was there a parachute landing there?
      Why do we need a separate parachute branch of the armed forces if they still don’t jump with a parachute and fight on SV equipment?
      And there is no need to puff up the preparation of the Airborne Forces. You just need to distribute high-quality recruits to the NE and prepare them normally. For the state, this is the right waste of resources.
      1. -5
        13 September 2022 11: 42
        Yes, because the Airborne Forces have the largest number of contract soldiers, not a single branch of the military can boast of this (we do not take into account special units), therefore ALL units of the Airborne Forces take part in the SVO. And parachute training should remain, even as moral and psychological training. When landing from the IL-76 through both doors, and earlier into the ramp, a certain courage is needed. And the training is higher due to the officers of the "fans of the airborne forces", alas, everything is sad in the same infantry.
    2. +8
      13 September 2022 15: 36
      Here we see a fine example of "landing chauvinism". Airborne Forces = elite, and the rest are "window dressing, parquet parades."

      You just don’t say this to those who are really fighting in the NWO, otherwise they will beat for a very long time and hurt. We must start at least with the fact that in the battles for Mariupol the Airborne Forces were a minority, Mariupol was taken primarily by infantry. The one that, in your opinion, is only "window dressing" and "parquet parades."

      And it was the infantry who fought in Chechnya. And these are not my words, but the words of a Vympel veteran who said "The war was carried out on the shoulders of ordinary soldiers."

      And mind you, even in this case I don’t think to say that the Airborne Forces are “window dressing” and “parquet parades”.
      1. +3
        13 September 2022 22: 42
        Well, yes - breaking bottles on the heads is not a window dressing, not a show-off, but a completely necessary element of the combat training of a paratrooper.
        1. 0
          14 September 2022 06: 39
          So I'm not writing about them, but about those who took Mariupol and fought in Chechnya. They didn’t break bottles on their heads there, but shed sweat and blood just like the infantry.
  20. +7
    13 September 2022 10: 43
    It is obvious to everyone that such a number of paratroopers of the RF Armed Forces is not needed. We need a certain number of airmobile troops, with the main method of delivery by helicopters, and having parachute training. But roughly speaking, this is a brigade for the district (and this is even a lot).
    The Airborne Forces as a branch of the military must be abolished. In no war after the Second World War, the USSR and the Russian Federation did not use massive parachute landings, even more so with parachute landing of equipment.
    Units of the Airborne Forces should be reassigned to the SV, reformatted into assault / shock units, instead of aluminum, equipped with normal armor and artillery.
    And yes, it is necessary to resolve the issue of the physical and shooting training of the SV.
  21. +7
    13 September 2022 11: 00
    It is probably worth seeing how the landing of troops on the Il-76 aircraft takes place. Not only that, the IL-76 itself on the screens of locators in the continuous radar field of the enemy glows for tens of kilometers before the front line is flown. Also, when landing, the aircraft must fly in one direction, at an altitude of 1000-2000 meters and at a speed of about 300 km / h. Now ask yourself how many IL-76s will reach the landing site, if the enemy has a little bit of air defense (when even an amphibious aircraft with 200-300 paratroopers can be shot down from MANPADS)? The second question follows from this - is a parachute landing method needed then? And do you need an airborne component in the Airborne Forces, or should you focus on the airborne assault component and the landing method of landing?
  22. -2
    13 September 2022 11: 05
    Landing is just a way to transport a unit to the battlefield. In itself, landing has a lot of ways, depending on the b / task and the situation. By parachute, one of them, and far from being the main one, but only, as a rule, reconnaissance, DRGs, advanced groups for capturing and holding landing sites, etc., and there are also a lot of stipulated conditions. The staff and armament just provide high mobility, combined with a strike and assault potential, for fleeting combat with full autonomy and without rears and second echelons. The tasks, and hence the tactics, principles of the military operations are fundamentally different from the tactics and purpose of the units and subunits of the ground forces, comparison and "adjustment" to the common denominator of the combined arms infantry is completely incorrect and unprofessional. By the way, there is no section in the combat manuals and manuals of the Airborne Forces units: the battle during the retreat, and the concept of rearguard battles, due to the fact that there is nowhere to retreat, there is the concept of secondary tasks for small groups of landing remnants, in case it is impossible to complete the main one.
    1. 0
      13 September 2022 11: 19
      the concept of rearguard battles, for the reason that there is nowhere to retreat, there is the concept of secondary tasks for small groups of landing remnants, in case the main one cannot be completed.

      Do women give birth to new ones?
      1. -3
        13 September 2022 13: 16
        Sorry, but in order to pass for a smart one and a discussion on this issue would make sense, you need to know a little more than a picture from the movies. Therefore, even trying to explain something to you makes no sense, a waste of time.
    2. +3
      13 September 2022 11: 26
      Well, this is all that needs to be carried out in accordance with reality.
      1. -4
        13 September 2022 13: 21
        And it is given, in Afghanistan, for example, armor and equipment were replaced with combined arms, at present, full-fledged "heavy" tank units have been formed in the regiments of the Airborne Forces, etc.
        1. +2
          13 September 2022 13: 53
          It is not "conducted". The Airborne Forces are landing formations, they should remain so, and a series of articles about what their appearance should be.
          And everything that turns out to be superfluous - in the SV.
    3. +2
      13 September 2022 13: 40
      In the Combat Regulations of the Airborne Forces and all the rest, there is no such thing as "fight in retreat"))))) there is no such type of battle, there is no such type of maneuver !!! There is an offensive, defense, raid actions. In this case, maneuvers can be performed: bypass, coverage. WASTE!!!!! everyone who graduated from a military school knows how a RETRACT differs from a RETREAT))) Retreat is the unauthorized abandonment of positions and lines occupied, which is not the fulfillment of a combat mission (order) and is a MILITARY CRIME !!! and WITHDRAWAL is the withdrawal of units agreed with the senior military commander (command), in order to occupy a MORE PROFITABLE LINE!!!
      The rear guard is a term from the period of the war of 1812, approximately))) Today, there are various types of security units, or cover.
      The landing party conducts a COMMON ARMS BATTLE IN THE ENEMY'S REAR LINES in cooperation with units of other military branches and special troops, units and units have all the same elements of the battle order, including the rear (rear of a battalion, regiment, brigade)
  23. +3
    13 September 2022 11: 18
    We are waiting for the continuation, the author. And hurry) very interesting!
  24. Kim
    +1
    13 September 2022 11: 19
    Quote: ramzay21
    than the head of the General Staff or the Minister of Defense

    thank :)
    positiff added :)
  25. +2
    13 September 2022 11: 28
    The author has a very superficial knowledge of the topic he is trying to teach))) This happens on the Internet.
    1. It is necessary to finish spreading the words once said by one half-wit-general that the BMD 4 costs like a tank, an intelligent person understands that a tank will cost more by just one weight of metal.
    2. Author, what is the fundamental difference between MSO and PDO?
    3. Author, what is the fundamental difference between the armor protection and armament of the BMP 3 and BMD 4? (we read a smart book, "Operating Instructions" and "Technical Description" - if it's difficult, google it on the net)
    5. It is not the fault of the Airborne Forces that the main fire weapon of the artillery of the Airborne Forces is still 2S9 NONA and the old woman D30, who prevented, like the same Americans, in the 80s-90s from developing the 777 howitzer, the lightest 155 mm caliber in the world, with a firing range up to 40 km, the possibility of using VTB, capable of landing by parachute, transported on the external sling of a helicopter ... ???
    6. Who and what prevents the development of a universal wheeled platform suitable for landing, in the image of the G66, which, at one time, was successfully used in all aircraft, in air defense, etc. ???
    7. The basis of the concept of the use of the Airborne Forces, like the MP, is SUDDENNESS !!!! only a full donkey sends troops to where they can wait, the experience of the Gostomel landing, including this, confirmed, so to speak, troch, at the wrong time))).
    8. At the expense of well-trained and selective personnel: so, because there are such troops, with their own history. spirit, traditions, the best are selected there (starting with the school) and trained accordingly, the latest history of the Airborne Forces knows examples when units were transferred to district subordination, a year later only the name remained from the landing force .... because most of the airborne officers are from there were transferred, including to lower positions, and IT became just NORMAL, like everyone else.
    9. The author does not know well about the air defense of the Airborne Forces. Again, they do not differ from motorized rifles in any way in the battalion / regiment / brigade link. No one interferes with placing the same systems on the basis of the BTR-D, the same platoons in battalions, batteries in regiments .... what is the fundamental difference between the BTR-D base and MTLB?
    ... in general, here I can add 10 more points down the list, you can simply summarize:
    1. It is necessary to consider the fundamental modernization of the existing weapons of combat support units.
    2. Work on the OShS, reform it taking into account the realities of our time (the same UAV units)
    3. In the course of major exercises, work out actions as part of ground forces (BTGr) groups, work out interaction with tank units, artillery, aviation, air defense - the same thing that MOTOR FIRE UNITS AND UNITS do !!!!! Pay more attention to the creation of interspecific groupings in the shortest possible time, develop uniform standards for managing them in combined arms combat.
    4. Stop writing all sorts of crap, not understanding the essence of the issue, if you want to broaden your horizons, for starters, you need to talk with those who are in the subject, and not the same who "passed by".
    5. In addition to the Airborne Forces, we also have marines and strategic missile forces. The last amphibious assault, after Brezhnev, was in the area of ​​the Kuril Islands, the United States used nuclear weapons for the first and last time in 1945 ... then, according to the logic of this, the marines, the entire nuclear triad should be removed, at least reduced ??? ? The peculiarity of some troops is that they ARE, and they can be used, in which case. The dagger is good for the one who has it at the right moment, and bad for the one who does not have it.
    1. -4
      13 September 2022 13: 28
      This is an endless and often useless dispute between a professional and an amateur, the slogan "every cook can rule the country" is literally understood by some of us "gifted". Those who served know perfectly well that how to command a regiment, who holds what position, soldiers and ensigns know best of all.
    2. +4
      13 September 2022 15: 42
      7. The Gostomel landing was not sudden; on its way, it steadily collided with enemy air defenses. And most importantly in another, it was a helicopter landing. IL-76 with paratroopers simply would not have flown to Gostomel.

      5. However, the marines, and even more so the Strategic Missile Forces, can fulfill the tasks assigned to them. The Airborne Forces, even in theory, are not capable of conducting a successful large landing. The only exception is landing in all sorts of backward countries where there is no air defense, if you fight against blacks, then I agree.
      1. -2
        13 September 2022 16: 54
        7. So, it was necessary to plan the landing operation correctly, if anything, the landing can be carried out at night))), with regards to Gostomel, what was the main problem? That's right, in the slow advance of the advancing troops from the front, weak support by artillery and aviation fire.
        5. With what fright does the Marine Corps "may complete tasks"? How much of our entire fleet has landing craft? (for today, even less), what is the ability of these funds, in the sense of what grouping can they take on board? The most important thing (remember cr Moscow and the ships at the Mariupol pier) how to quietly approach the shore, stupidly, not to "drown" along the way, have you ever calculated the calculation of forces and means for conducting a naval landing operation, at least for landing an armored personnel carrier by sea ? What should be the grouping of ships, aircraft, etc. etc?
        At the expense of the Strategic Missile Forces - while no one has ever applied something, it is impossible to speak with confidence about this.
        1. +6
          13 September 2022 17: 13
          7. And at night the planes will be shot down in the same way. The era of visual target detection ended in the last century.

          With regards to the landing itself in Gostomel, there were no problems, as I already said, helicopter landings are quite real today.

          5. For amphibious assault, it is not necessary to approach the coast imperceptibly, it is enough to suppress the enemy's anti-ship defense. So far, nothing like MANPADS against ships has been developed, and this is quite realistic. That is, the ship, both in theory and in practice, can approach the coastline and land troops, but the IL-76 does not.

          All major countries of the world speak with confidence about the Strategic Missile Forces. The reason is incredibly banal - missiles are guaranteed to reach the target, the number of missiles is guaranteed to break through the missile defense system of any country. The fact that you do not know this only means that you are talking about topics in which you do not understand anything.
          1. 0
            14 September 2022 11: 13
            7. About the night - it was exaggerated ... parachute landing, this is one of the ways !!! In the realities of today's world, parachute landings, groupings of more than armored personnel carriers, of course, are not very feasible, or, when performing certain special tasks, in a specific area where the air defense system is weak, it can be suppressed for the period of flight of the battle order of the VTA. There is no need to perceive the fact itself so primitively, for example, during the recent "maneuvering" in the Kharkov direction, units were transferred by air, including by landing method to MI26. Landing is carried out in three ways: directly on the object of capture, in close proximity and at SOME DISTANCE from the object. So, where they landed in the MI 26 field, the enemy's air defense system clearly did not work))) or, in practice. You saw footage of how poorly trained people loaded MTLB and SAO into a helicopter, then unloaded ... what was their number, respectively, the subsequent effectiveness .... According to the basic concept of the RF Armed Forces, the Airborne Forces are the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. What is a reserve, basically? These are units and formations allocated by the command to solve SUDDENLY ARISING TASKS during the battle, such as: solving problems as forward detachments to be able to give time for the deployment of the main group of troops, preventing a breakthrough on the front, building up efforts in areas of breakthrough of their forces, strengthening the grouping of friendly troops, to avoid a breakthrough, to organize cover for the main forces, in case they make a maneuver (for example, retreat), etc. So, the MI26 landing area quite allowed itself to organize a parachute landing of at least one full-fledged BTGR based on the PDB, we need one main, one spare landing site (size 2 x 5 km), the landing units, after landing, carried out a collection at the landing site, in the future, under the cover of army and front-line aviation, they make a raid, with the detection of the enemy, occupy an advantageous line or engage in battle immediately, acting as a subdivision covering the withdrawal of the main forces of the grouping and evacuating civilians of Ukraine loyal to us ....
            5. Suppressing anti-ship defense in our time is tantamount to suppressing an air defense system in the VTA flight lane)))))) How did Moscow sink in our country?))) You did not answer my question, so to speak, you tried to skillfully leave, I will return you to him: how much BDK is needed to transport the armored personnel carrier of the marines, with equipment, a supply of mats (fuels and ammunition)? How many ships do you need to cover and support the landing group? What is the general grouping of ships? At what distance from the landing site do you plan to load? How much time is needed for loading, building a ship grouping, maneuvering, crossing? What are the capabilities of destroying surface targets of missiles of the type, for example, Harpoon (already known to everyone), what are the capabilities of destroying Tamahawk-type cruise missiles (ground and air-based), the transfer time of the Highmarz division, the 777 howitzer division to take up a position in the most threatened landing direction? ... I can continue like this for a long time)))) ... therefore, I can also say that what you are trying to argue without really knowing the topic looks also not very convincing)))
            The main problem of many, even those who once studied the SV BU, even served in it, perhaps took part in the database, is that in this Charter the issue of airborne operations is assigned, if I have not forgotten, one is not big section, there are five or six articles, for a couple of leaves in this whole little book. In fact, one theoretical lesson will be held at the Department of Tactics, somewhere, in the tickets for the exam, there will be a couple of questions and EVERYTHING. An average military officer, even one who graduated from Frunze's general faculty, especially armored, understands this operation, how they boarded an airplane / helicopter, flew in, flew in, landed, landed or jumped out, "hooray" and ran. Few people think, for some reason this school was created, they probably teach something there, in Frunze they created a separate faculty and department ..... they teach something there)))
            1. 0
              14 September 2022 13: 05
              parachute landing, this is one of the ways !!!


              Which is formally the main landing method for the Russian Airborne Forces and, as a result, parachute landing is the main requirement for airborne equipment and airborne troops.

              5. Show your ignorance again. There are no portable anti-ship systems, they are all placed either on large equipment (ships, aircraft, missile systems), or permanently on the ground. It is possible to detect and destroy all this, anti-ship missiles themselves can be intercepted. And one MANPADS is one fighter, in order to suppress such air defense, you need to literally kill all the people in the territory. So far, no one has been able to do this with conventional weapons, and we do not seem to be discussing the use of nuclear weapons with the subsequent landing of troops at the epicenter of the explosion. IL-76, with all its desire, will not be able to intercept a missile from a MANPADS (as far as I know, no one can do this yet) or even perform an evasive maneuver. That's why fully it is impossible to suppress modern air defense.

              As soon as they somehow develop anti-ship systems that one fighter can use, repeating MANPADS in their weight and size characteristics, then, of course, amphibious assault may well become just as impossible.

              The cruiser Moscow does not belong to the topic, since he did not try to land anyone, moreover, it was assumed that the enemy did not have anti-ship weapons in the area where he was located. Moreover, according to a number of data, Moscow did not have equipment that could detect anti-ship missiles.

              Trying to bombard me with absolutely "leftist" questions will also fail. If you are interested in what and how much is required, then open the relevant documents and read.
              1. -1
                15 September 2022 09: 50
                You served in the Airborne Forces, why can you so categorically try to assert which of the landing methods is the main one?))) Once, in the XNUMXth century, rather yes, and the combat training program included a large number of hours on the Airborne Forces, today it is far from , including the number of jumps is already less according to the program.
                5. I think, at the expense of "ignorance" of these issues, it is better for you not to compete with me, it will not work. I have not written anywhere that anti-ship systems and complexes are portable))), there are a lot of them in a mobile version. The speed of movement is quite large, the time for deployment and readiness for firing is up to 10 minutes.
                When I ask you questions about real performance characteristics, time indicators of something, I lead you to the fact that you are writing nonsense. Because, knowing the performance characteristics of weapons and equipment, the basic standards for certain tasks, it becomes clear that the degree of vulnerability of a ship group in the conditions of the capabilities of modern means of reconnaissance, detection and guidance, in%, is no less than an air defense system. Speaking about a single anti-aircraft gunner with MANPADS, you need to understand that this soldier does not sleep in a barracks or dugout, but is in a FIRE POSITION, in observation mode, waiting for a target. For a soldier to be in this position, and even with MANPADS in his hands, in the army of any country in the world, a lot of things must happen, if only because MANPADS are not stored in weapons storage rooms along with machine guns)))
                I wrote above that the main principle of the success of the landing operation is surprise. But, given the cruising speed of a jet aircraft of 800 km / h, the landing speed of 350 km / h, surprise is achieved better by aviation than by ships. I didn’t just ask about the presence of BDKs in the fleet at the moment and the need for them to be placed on board the BTGR MP. The example with Moscow is very significant in that it shows that a ship at sea is an excellent target. The question about Tamahawks is also not accidental, because, as it makes it clear that the launch of a missile of this class of air-based, allows the aircraft not to enter the air defense zone of the ship group, and the tactics worked out, including those already against us, of delivering a layered strike, allowing to force "give away" BC to secondary targets and means of destruction, to strike with the main means.
                Once again, the questions are not at all "leftist", absolutely on topic. When you have certain knowledge and practical experience, this information gives an answer to many questions. In special military schools, academies, they give certain knowledge, and direct service, experience in their use))).
                1. +1
                  15 September 2022 19: 28
                  To know the performance characteristics of the Airborne Forces equipment and the program for their training, you do not need to serve in the Airborne Forces. Actually, you confirmed my words, the equipment is still airborne, the paratroopers are still learning to parachute.


                  5. And during this time the complex is destroyed, including in storage. In this way, such complexes are not fundamentally different from the MLRS, OTRK, or any similar equipment. You can't really hide a missile system even in the city. And a fighter with MANPADS can simply hide in any gap and, if necessary, crawl under artillery shelling.

                  surprise is achieved better by aviation than by ships.


                  Further your message can not be read. IL-76 glows in all ranges so that there is no surprise and cannot be.

                  Surprise can only be achieved by helicopter landing below the radar line, but even then with a bunch of "buts".

                  The example with Moscow is very significant in that it shows that a ship at sea is an excellent target.


                  A single obsolete ship for sure. But Moscow has nothing to do with the amphibious assault.
                  1. 0
                    16 September 2022 08: 14
                    I like aspiring people)))
                    Let's start with the main thing: the male jumps on the bitch, and the paratroopers jump)))
                    Of course, in the Airborne Forces, parachute jumps, landing of equipment and cargo are still being trained in the Airborne Forces classes, since, until now, the parachute landing method is considered as one of the methods for delivering units to the place of the task. Equipment, for the most part, is also airborne, which is logical. Moreover, it is most suitable for air transportation, for the option of landing by landing method.
                    5. You need to be very careful!!! I write about surprise as the main factor. Once again, what the hell is a fighter with MANPADS crawling under fire? suddenness, this is when everyone (almost everyone, except for the daily outfit and the guard) sleep peacefully in the barracks, when no one even suggests that on February 24, "exactly at 4 in the morning, Kyiv was bombed, we were informed that the war had begun." ..))), and when the alarm had already sounded, all the means on duty were brought to a state of full combat readiness, when the anti-aircraft gunner, having dressed, put on shoes, received MANPADS in the warehouse, got into the car and moved out to the concentration area to take up a firing position , then it's too late to rush about.
                    Returning to the beloved MP. If we consider the adversary of the main and most terrible on the Black Sea theater of operations (for example), and so, having collected a ship grouping of at least 7-8 pennants, as an option, a couple of transport support ships, not yet entering the Bosphorus Straits, this grouping will be tracked as soon as it will enter the waters of the World Cup, it will be targeted by stationary coastal complexes, mobile ones will enter the concentration area and begin to constantly maneuver, aviation, including strategic aviation, will constantly hang in the air, duty groups will stupidly replace each other. The ships of our fleet will go to sea and take up positions. And all this will happen in a coordinated manner, because that grouping will need a whole day to pass through the straits, and a day of movement to get closer to our territorial waters. Approximately the same, everything will happen in the waters of any of our other coastal seas.
                    IL 76, especially a group of 10-12 aircraft, of course shines, who says no, only here the question arises of suppressing air defense systems (EW and RER), striking at stationary objects, etc. And the speed of the aircraft should allow it to be in the air defense zone for a minimum amount of time, naturally, if you fly for an hour over conditional Ukraine, you will be shot down))), we should talk about some 15 - 20 minutes, maximum. But it is so .. .for reasoning, but the main thing is what I described in the two examples above.
                    Moscow has the most direct relation to the amphibious assault, because exactly how ships of this class will make up the grouping of cover and support for the landing, ehh ... you don’t know a damn thing, the BDKs themselves won’t go anywhere alone, the same adversary, he will equip an aircraft carrier there (and how without air cover?), He can also add a submarine, because all this will need to be guarded under water.
                    1. 0
                      16 September 2022 19: 38
                      Let's start with the main thing: the male jumps on the bitch, and the paratroopers jump)))


                      "Jumping" = jumping. Synonyms in general.

                      IL 76, especially a group of 10-12 aircraft, of course shines, who says no, only here the question arises of suppressing air defense systems (EW and RER), striking at stationary objects, etc.


                      And within the framework of the SVO, this question was answered in the negative - and to this day the air defense systems of Ukraine have not been suppressed.

                      At the same time, you somehow forget that a large-scale landing operation is also prepared in advance, and in the same way the planes will be carried out even before they take off. And the same fighter with MANPADS will already be in position. This is exactly what happened with the Gostomel landing, which just did have a factor of surprise.

                      You are right about the grouping. But a single Moscow is not a grouping.
                      1. 0
                        19 September 2022 10: 08
                        No, it was the air defense system that was SUPPRESSED, but not destroyed, that is, disabled for a while, I’m saying it doesn’t take several hours, it takes several tens of minutes .... but it was clear that it would work later , since Soviet times, the territory of Ukraine has been crammed with air defense elements, there were many higher schools, that is, historically, there are a lot of specialists and iron.
                      2. 0
                        21 September 2022 11: 48
                        I haven’t been, since there hasn’t been a day when our aircraft could fly freely over the NWO zone.

                        For example, the air defense of Kyiv did not stop its work at all.
          2. 0
            14 September 2022 11: 34
            To further enhance understanding, I’ll introduce you to the operational-tactical situation: The enemy, with forces up to a motorized brigade, broke through the front in the Kherson direction, according to intelligence, the direction of concentration of the main efforts is the Crimean Isthmus, with the task of dissecting the grouping of our forces, preventing the possibility of supplying and supplying reserves to the area DB. with further advancement deep into the Crimean peninsula, etc. etc. Based on the understanding of the current state of affairs and the availability of operational reserves at the command of the grouping in the direction, there is a threat to the success of the actions taken by the enemy. What is the solution in this case? The transfer of some reserves urgently in this direction. The closest route, across the bridge, the whole Crimea, etc. What time is it? ... The solution is to parachute at least one armored personnel carrier with one lift of the VTA at a certain distance from the isthmus, with the task of making a raid / march, occupying an advantageous line, tying down the advancing enemy troops in battle, inflicting maximum defeat, until the main forces or additional reserves approach. Here, too, is an additional illustrative example of how this can and should work in our time.
  26. -1
    13 September 2022 11: 32
    You can send cavalry with sabers to tanks, you can use it as a mobile force that does not require fuel for raids.
    The combat use of the airborne forces, like many other branches of the military, must be constantly reviewed and refined. But no one seems to be doing it.

    My opinion is that mobile units, no matter how they land, by helicopters, parachutes or in another way, should be used primarily in defense when there is a threat of breaking through the front and to save those who are surrounded.
    At the same time, the equipment is transported by heavy helicopters ka 26, and fits into its carrying capacity of 20 tons. There should be as many of these helicopters as possible. And airborne equipment should be designed with a minimum crew (1 person to control) or even unmanned, to increase armor and survivability, with means of self-digging and camouflage.
  27. +1
    13 September 2022 11: 34
    Very interesting.
    But I did not understand the meaning of the overcomplication of the concept of "landing". Well, yes, throwing paratroopers out of airplanes is very out of date. But you can unload from helicopters, or amphibious assault. In any case, these are mobile groups for solving some tactical tasks. And I don’t even see the point in talking about a separate type of troops. Well, or, if you like, let it be "military special forces" performing the functions of the DRG.
  28. +7
    13 September 2022 11: 42
    Quote: forester
    The author and why are you not in the General Staff))))?)))), since such a super-duper reasonable)))

    because a place in the Arbat military district is inherited
  29. +4
    13 September 2022 12: 26
    Yes, the ossified brains in the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense will slow down any reforms. Don’t know what to do with the Airborne Forces? Don’t have enough brains? Well, open your eyes and at least look at how your “dear” partners are doing. Look at the structure of the Rangers in the USA (the same elite drummers ).look how after Afghan the Americans dopered and began to attach to their assault units, attack support helicopters (the use of which does not need to be coordinated for 2 days) also with artillery. There are already a lot of options around the world with rich experience. Take the best from enemies, and it's not good if we ourselves can't think of a good idea hi
  30. -3
    13 September 2022 13: 06
    In my opinion, in modern conditions, the organizational structure of these troops should look something like this:
    1.VDD - one unit
    2. VDShbr - all the rest.
    The division must have its own military transport aircraft, in an amount sufficient to deploy it in full force, with equipment and weapons, air defense systems.
    The brigades (each) must be armed with the entire line of transport, transport-combat, and combat helicopters, also in such a quantity that will allow the delivery of troops in one or two waves, with light vehicles such as a buggy, or an ATV. sad
    1. +2
      13 September 2022 17: 26
      Brigades (each) must be armed with the entire line of transport, transport-combat, and combat helicopters


      Are you crazy? Even in the USSR, with its fleet of helicopters, a separate helicopter squadron was barely enough for a motorized rifle division. Moreover, subordination is only operational. With your headquarters
      Army Aviation at Army Headquarters. Three escalrilles for the combined arms army.
      Where can you get aircraft, pilots, IAS, airfield services, logistics for your Wishlist?
      This is not a ZIL-131, you can’t put it in the garage and you can’t put a “carrier” in the barracks. And you can’t stuff more than 25 snouts into the G8. The squadron is generally mixed - in half Mi-24, Mi-XNUMX. Rot, maximum.
      With this logic, give them a steam locomotive with wagons to the state. And a steamboat. Suddenly needed.

      In general, they abandoned army subordination, reducing all forces to the district (front headquarters). And they did it right. If you need to transfer, then all the helicopters immediately identified and transferred the infantry as best they could.
      What for these tricks with paratroopers? There has not been a single paratrooper in Kunduz for 10 years. There were landings, and a lot. But simple "Red Riders" from MSD.
  31. -3
    13 September 2022 13: 23
    In addition to the above. Of course, it is difficult to say anything without having data on the situation, including those displayed on the map, but I can assume that the operational-tactical landing in the rear of the attacking units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Kharkov sector could change the situation. I repeat that this is an opinion without taking into account the real situation that was there - that is, the location of the attacking units and subunits, their composition and weapons. It looks like the command of the operation simply could not, and did not want to use this chance for a number of reasons, which I will not talk about, so as not to slip into the banal accusations of this command. sad
  32. 0
    13 September 2022 13: 25
    Thank you for a good and interesting article, Author!
    As for the feasibility of the Airborne Forces - from the retrospective you indicated, it is generally clear that the factors that enhance the effectiveness of the Airborne Forces are effective and high-quality intelligence (UAVs, satellites, intelligence data) - there has been significant progress in this area since the Second World War, apparently still far from the limits of implementation. In the direction of improving the means of delivery (parachute), radical and commensurate progress is hardly expected - the aircraft is still a hefty aerodynamic bomb carrier, extremely noticeable to radars and with a limited capacity-speed. In the direction of development of the parachute devices themselves - I admit that it is possible, due to the development of materials science and the improvement of the strength and nanostructural features of modern materials, as well as the development of ideas for correcting those landing in flight through active surfaces or with compact gas engines. These ideas are applicable both for landing equipment and for people. The means of communication are also subject to evolution, and the issue of contact between the landing forces and the headquarters is much less acute than during the Second World War, in fact, the moment when communication can be online is not far off, despite significant countermeasures.

    There is also definite progress in the direction of personal protective equipment, means that increase the combat value of a paratrooper are also being developed - thermal imagers, NV, mini UAVs, various compact variations of grenade launchers, mortars, MANPADS-ATGMs.
    That is, in terms of the totality of means, the paratrooper is still developing as a combat unit.
    However, it is worth noting that there is also a development of trends that are extremely unfavorable for the landing force.

    In particular, the potential of automatic control systems is growing - with the delegation of decision-making to them or with the reduction of the capabilities of such systems under the control of operators. Specifically, I mean a variety of robotic security systems and complexes capable of detecting a landing 24/7 and using a warning and / or means of destruction. Significant qualitative evolution is taking place in the direction of such complexes.
    Also, countermeasures and awareness of enemy forces meeting "on the ground" are increasing. Armor penetration of weapons, means of monitoring the situation online (cameras, tablets, UAVs, thermal imagers, etc.) are increasing, portable systems of ATGM-MANPADS (which pose a significant threat to landing equipment and deadly to airborne equipment) are becoming widespread.
    The extreme compactness of many of these means makes it difficult to identify their movement, accumulation and presence. Thus, the damage to the landing force is both the increasing firepower of the defenders and the early detection of the fact.

    All of the above refers not to the outgoing era of "anti-barmaley" conflicts, but to the coming era of the classical confrontation between developed states.
    The Airborne Forces as a branch of the military is uniquely important, but is increasingly associated with the economic and technical power of the state through the need to maintain a multilayer support complex for them.
  33. -3
    13 September 2022 13: 34
    The equipment of the Airborne Forces should be strengthened, as well as small arms, and all support ... Without logistics, soldiers, that the match will burn out and there will be no ashes ...
  34. -1
    13 September 2022 15: 42
    Reform of the Airborne Forces in the light of the experience of fighting in Ukraine and previous wars

    hi
    The article as a historical review, of course, is interesting.

    But as an idea "airborne reform" - very bad. It will finish off what is still working.

    First, the reform is ongoing.
    IMHO, you can read about what it leads to at "500" from the 56th airborne assault regiment.

    Secondly, it would be nice to first give the Airborne Forces what is required by the state: from personnel to equipment. And you can also give art, UAVs, tanks and air defense. Otherwise, you can "reform before the reform according to Mitrofanov" - hand over the "luminous tanks", overeat on buggies and ATVs and go on the attack.

    But here it should be noted that And Timokhin definitely understands the trends in the life of the RF Armed Forces.
    He wrote about the problems of air defense - and it turned out so.
    He wrote that it would be nice to give PMCs heavy weapons - and it turned out.
    So for sure there will be a reform, sorry for the Airborne Forces, of course.

    Well, as always, "it's good for iron - everything else, trash, waste and alhistoria."
  35. +6
    13 September 2022 16: 42
    it is high time to change both the concept and the doctrine of the airborne forces ...
    with modern aerospace reconnaissance and air defense, there can be no large-scale landing by definition ..
    the same "gostomel" showed all the futility of such operations, when the "planners" have a head only for a cap ...
    the airfield was not captured, the reserves did not come up, as a result, the paratroopers themselves had to be rescued ...
    basically a total failure...
    there is no talk about the heroism of the guys - because. any heroism is a crime of high command ...
    1. +3
      13 September 2022 17: 36
      the airfield was not captured, the reserves did not come up, as a result, the paratroopers themselves had to be rescued ...


      The airfield was just captured, but there was not much use from this, yes.
      1. +3
        14 September 2022 15: 11
        captured - this is when they are able to provide landing / take-off to their flyers ...
        otherwise it's bullshit...
  36. -4
    13 September 2022 17: 31
    Quote: dauria
    Brigades (each) must be armed with the entire line of transport, transport-combat, and combat helicopters


    Are you crazy? Even in the USSR, with its fleet of helicopters, a separate helicopter squadron was barely enough for a motorized rifle division. Moreover, subordination is only operational. With your headquarters
    Army Aviation at Army Headquarters. Three escalrilles for the combined arms army.
    Where can you get aircraft, pilots, IAS, airfield services, logistics for your Wishlist?
    This is not a ZIL-131, you can’t put it in the garage and you can’t put a “carrier” in the barracks.

    In general, they abandoned army subordination, reducing all forces to the district (front headquarters). And they did it right. If you need to transfer, then all the helicopters immediately identified and transferred the infantry as best they could.
    What for these tricks with paratroopers? There has not been a single paratrooper in Kunduz for 10 years. There were landings, and a lot. But simple "Red Riders" from MSD.

    These are not wishes. but the requirement of time. And if you have a different opinion - that's your problem. If we don't do anything, don't change, we'll get bogged down in inertia, and in ... parades! sad
    1. +4
      13 September 2022 22: 01
      These are not wishes. but the requirement of time. And if you have a different opinion - that's your problem

      The requirement of time is to make the most of what you have. Army aviation from the time of the Great Patriotic War (yes, don’t laugh, army aviation by subordination, although not helicopters) was taken from specific princes, bringing into a single fist not even a front, but a group of fronts. Using it exactly where it is needed right now.
      What will the transport helicopters belonging to your brigades do when they "bring" the troops? Sit and wait until the infantry fights? What if for a long time? And if you need to transfer or support those who don’t have these helicopters according to the state in another place?
      Here is the real demand, and not your pulling of forces "let it be in my pocket in reserve." All this has been passed more than once before you, as much as possible. A rake is lying, "but won't it come?"
  37. 0
    13 September 2022 17: 34
    Quote: Wildcat
    Reform of the Airborne Forces in the light of the experience of fighting in Ukraine and previous wars

    hi
    The article as a historical review, of course, is interesting.

    But as an idea "airborne reform" - very bad. It will finish off what is still working.

    First, the reform is ongoing.
    IMHO, you can read about what it leads to at "500" from the 56th airborne assault regiment.

    Secondly, it would be nice to first give the Airborne Forces what is required by the state: from personnel to equipment. And you can also give art, UAVs, tanks and air defense.
    In this case, they will need to be called simply, and uncomplicated - motorized rifle troops. lol
    1. +3
      13 September 2022 23: 15
      If a soldier fights well because he was skydiving and he has a blue beret, let him wear a beret and jump with a parachute.

      I had to deal with various "reforms" of various enterprises. Thousand for 20 people. Experience suggests that when there is a reorganization, the people scatter and do little.

      So let there be paratroopers with heavy weapons, and for landings, let there be a set of light equipment on the BHBT.
      But that's just fantasy.
      If Timokhin writes that they will reform, then they will reform: "The Airborne Forces are airborne units, they should remain so, and a series of articles about what their appearance should be.
      And everything that turns out to be superfluous - in the SV.
      In the NE, so in the NE, here I trust Timokhin.
      Here is one of the facets of the current reform, given again by Timokhin: "And instead of a TV box, look at telegrams - militia channels, especially the LPR, and you will see there that:
      1. 122-mm barrels began to be seized back in the spring, because an accessible ammo was shot, first in the militias, then in the RF Armed Forces. In the militias they were replaced by the same D-20s that you don’t see.
      2. Now the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have also shot the tables on the Mstakh and Hyacinths with Akatsiyas, and there are already not enough shells for the new 152-mm barrels (Msta, Hyacinth).
      Therefore, since last month, the process of withdrawing D-20s from the militias and transferring them to the RF Armed Forces has begun, while there are still shells.
      And the militias receive D-1, model 1943. And you don't see.
      "

      So a good question is how and with what part the artillery will strengthen the Airborne Forces.
  38. 0
    13 September 2022 17: 40
    Quote from Zoto
    They don't need the Su-57, they don't need the Koalitsiya-SV self-propelled guns, they don't need the Armata, Kurganets, Tornado-S. They do not know what they are for and how to use them. They, the military, did not order them ... Does it remind you of anything?

    Screw on the valve - if you don’t have your own engines and electronics, then there are no mass UAVs either.
  39. +5
    13 September 2022 17: 45
    Quote: seacap
    to hammer them in that this is not their "mabuta", but a "piece" highly professional tool.

    Yeah, let the infantry be disposed of, why feel sorry for it. In the USSR, they completely unjustifiably formed the cult of the Airborne Forces. The Russian Federation inherited it in the worst possible way.
    1. +4
      13 September 2022 18: 31
      The command of the Airborne Forces refers this type of troops to the elite, they attribute to it a special status and significance, for many years they have maintained a heroic opinion in society, it is clear that it is very prestigious to lead such troops, so they will find many reasons to keep their posts. and defend the parachute method of throwing a mass of troops behind enemy lines
    2. The comment was deleted.
  40. -4
    13 September 2022 18: 33
    Quote: Author
    The seeming senselessness of these formations as paratroopers in a war against an enemy with a regular army, air defense and aviation.

    The strength of the Airborne Forces, in addition to everything, is in their mobility, and the enemy does not always have strong air defense, a simple example is the extreme events in Kazakhstan.
    Moans about the weak protection of the armored personnel carrier are partially justified, because. you need a combat vehicle that overcomes water obstacles - the pontoon park is vulnerable and you can’t pull it up everywhere, that is, you need a compromise - modular protection.
    1. +6
      13 September 2022 18: 43
      In Kazakhstan, there was neither a war (that is, an enemy army and air defense) nor parachute landings. In the same way, motorized riflemen could be sent there.
      1. -3
        13 September 2022 19: 08
        But they didn't send it? Why?
        1. +5
          13 September 2022 19: 20
          Question to command. I will assume that the Airborne Forces have units specially trained for this, but the motorized riflemen do not, and it was much easier and faster to send the Airborne Forces.

          In Kazakhstan, they did not work as an airborne force, but as a rapid reaction force.
  41. +2
    13 September 2022 18: 40
    Interesting article. I look forward to continuing. To the author - respect.
  42. +3
    13 September 2022 19: 18
    the article is valid, but. In a special operation in Ukraine, the airborne forces are not used for their intended purpose, but as simple infantry, that's all. The equipment and weapons of the airborne forces are just sharpened for landing, everything that is heavier is just infantry.
  43. IVZ
    -3
    13 September 2022 19: 31
    Quote: Old Tankman
    And what exactly does not suit you in the current structure of tank and motorized rifle units and subunits?

    Yes, there was no talk about the structure of the conversation. I personally don’t know what exactly needs to be reformed, but for some reason, in any mess, the duties of motorized riflemen are performed by the Airborne Forces. At the same time, without causing anything but some pathological malice among many commentators. No one wants to ask why the landing party performs the duties of motorized riflemen instead of motorized riflemen and what motorized riflemen do, but the question is "what then will the landing force do if it is not put into a combined arms battle with its specific equipment or even plug holes?". not off the agenda. By the way, it seems that submarine missile carriers have never been used in our country, but wow, I’m generally silent about the Strategic Missile Forces. Who in Ukraine needs such equipment?
  44. 0
    13 September 2022 20: 04
    In order for the landing force to fulfill its tasks, it is necessary to strengthen aviation. And not even so much transport as shock, so that there is someone to ensure that the landing force reaches the right place.
    1. +4
      13 September 2022 20: 39
      Quote: bk0010
      In order for the landing force to fulfill its tasks, it is necessary to strengthen aviation. And not even so much transport as shock, so that there is someone to ensure that the landing force reaches the right place.

      If you have such aviation, then what tasks can the landing force have and in general why is it needed with such aviation?
      1. -1
        13 September 2022 22: 20
        Quote: agond
        If you have such aviation, then what tasks can the landing force have and in general why is it needed with such aviation?
        Bridges, for example, will you capture aircraft? "The territory is not considered captured until the eggs of the infantry Vani hang over it." So here, there are a lot of tasks to "capture", and not "gouge". Or what to fuck is not very clear.
    2. +5
      14 September 2022 06: 43
      It's very interesting to hear your suggestions. In the 21st century, an IL-76 can be guaranteed (!!!) shot down by an ordinary infantryman with a "pipe" weighing just over 10kg. It is very interesting how strike aircraft can prevent this.
      1. -1
        14 September 2022 11: 04
        Quote: rait
        In the 21st century, an IL-76 can be guaranteed (!!!) shot down by an ordinary infantryman with a "pipe" weighing just over 10kg.
        The probability of hitting an aircraft from MANPADS is about 10% at altitudes up to 5 km, and not "guaranteed". Not so long ago, containers were made that could disable the GOS MANPADS.
        1. +2
          14 September 2022 13: 09
          Where did you get these numbers from? The landing altitude from the IL-76 EMNIP is 600 meters, where did you get 5 km from?

          The probability of defeat from the old Igla-S MANPADS is 80% -90%, and given the fact that we are talking about a large and extremely "luminous" IL-76 that has neither heat traps nor the technical ability to evade, it approaches 100%.

          For comparison, it is stated that the modern Verba MANPADS are 1.5 - 2 times superior to Iglo-S.

          containers were made that could disable the GOS MANPADS.


          I hear it for the first time.
          1. -1
            14 September 2022 14: 16
            Quote: rait
            where did you get 5km from?
            From the characteristics of MANPADS
            Quote: rait
            IL-76 without any heat traps
            And where do they go? True, they are useless against modern GOS.
            Quote: rait
            I hear it for the first time.

            https://topwar.ru/85537-bortovoy-kompleks-oborony-letatelnyh-apparatov-prezident-s.html
            https://topwar.ru/8537-kak-obmanut-raketu-voennye-tehnologii-na-grazhdanskih-samoletah.html
            https://topwar.ru/475-stinger-soshel-s-uma.html
            1. +2
              14 September 2022 16: 48
              Well, let's start over

              1. The Vitebsk complex is not capable of disabling the IR GOS, you simply do not understand the principle of its operation. Of the aircraft, it is installed only on the Su-25.

              It is also installed on the Ka-52, and as far as I know, only during the landing in Gostomel 2 Ka-52s were shot down from MANPADS. This I mean that such complexes cannot 100% protect even helicopters flying at low and ultra-low altitudes and capable of performing evasive maneuvers.

              The third link is about him.

              And where do they go? True, they are useless against modern GOS.


              1. I agree, I forgot that they are there.
              2. If you knew the principle of operation of Vitebsk, you would know that the same heat traps are used in its composition. I mean, they are very useful. It's in your links. Have you read them?
              1. -1
                14 September 2022 17: 08
                Quote: rait
                Have you read them?
                I read it, but not now. So I didn't find what I needed. It was written there that a container was developed for the presidential aircraft, which disables the IR GOS MANPADS with a laser beam. All aviation of the RF Armed Forces should be equipped with such means.
                1. +2
                  14 September 2022 17: 25
                  I heard about such developments in the USA, but none of them even made it to prototypes. The reason is simple and banal - the atmosphere scatters and absorbs the laser.

                  The most that we have come up with is a laser as elements of an electro-optical protection complex, that is, the laser does not disable the IR seeker, but heating it violates target designation. But I haven’t read anywhere that it would even be supposed to be put on BTA aircraft.

                  https://iz.ru/news/528870
                  1. -1
                    14 September 2022 19: 05
                    Quote: rait
                    I heard about such developments in the USA, but none of them even made it to prototypes.
                    https://topwar.ru/86178-izrail-pristupaet-k-osnascheniyu-grazhdanskih-avialaynerov-sistemami-protivodeystviya-pzrk.html
                    Quote: rait
                    that is, the laser does not disable the IR seeker, but heating it violates target designation
                    Not significant
  45. -1
    13 September 2022 20: 48
    Quote: agond
    defend the parachute method of throwing a mass of troops behind enemy lines

    Perhaps so. Only here are some commanders of the Airborne Forces in the Russian Federation were traitors Lebed and Grachev. So the elite status is so-so.
  46. -3
    13 September 2022 21: 23
    Look like in the USA and copy, except for the T34 and how we didn’t come up with anything particularly better
  47. +2
    13 September 2022 22: 01
    So far, one thing is clear to me, I am for "Army Aviation"! You give turntables to each regiment !!! Rooks in every division. Let the boys into the sky! D-fishing on scooters will be less!
  48. -3
    13 September 2022 22: 29
    Quote: dauria
    These are not wishes. but the requirement of time. And if you have a different opinion - that's your problem

    The requirement of time is to make the most of what you have. Army aviation from the time of the Great Patriotic War (yes, don’t laugh, army aviation by subordination, although not helicopters) was taken from specific princes, bringing into a single fist not even a front, but a group of fronts. Using it exactly where it is needed right now.
    What will the transport helicopters belonging to your brigades do when they "bring" the troops? Sit and wait until the infantry fights? What if for a long time? And if you need to transfer or support those who don’t have these helicopters according to the state in another place?
    Here is the real demand, and not your pulling of forces "let it be in my pocket in reserve." All this has been passed more than once before you, as much as possible. A rake is lying, "but won't it come?"

    My dear, you can’t draw a logical line in any way - I’m just talking about the concentration of forces and means of the brigade so that it has everything of its own. If they quit, then there should be support from one's own, or some other brigade. and his own, and evacuation in case of failure - one commander, and sets the task for everyone. That's what we're talking about! And no tearing! Each team has everything to complete the task. The Americans decided it long ago. The tactic is called vertical reach. Where are you, and what did you study, dear?
  49. +1
    13 September 2022 23: 22
    Quote: Wildcat
    If a soldier fights well because he was skydiving and he has a blue beret, let him wear a beret and jump with a parachute.

    I had to deal with various "reforms" of various enterprises. Thousand for 20 people. Experience suggests that when there is a reorganization, the people scatter and do little.

    So let there be paratroopers with heavy weapons, and for landings, let there be a set of light equipment on the BHBT.
    But that's just fantasy.
    If Timokhin writes that they will reform, then they will reform: "The Airborne Forces are airborne units, they should remain so, and a series of articles about what their appearance should be.
    And everything that turns out to be superfluous - in the SV.
    In the NE, so in the NE, here I trust Timokhin.
    Here is one of the facets of the current reform, given again by Timokhin: "And instead of a TV box, look at telegrams - militia channels, especially the LPR, and you will see there that:
    1. 122-mm barrels began to be seized back in the spring, because an accessible ammo was shot, first in the militias, then in the RF Armed Forces. In the militias they were replaced by the same D-20s that you don’t see.
    2. Now the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have also shot the tables on the Mstakh and Hyacinths with Akatsiyas, and there are already not enough shells for the new 152-mm barrels (Msta, Hyacinth).
    Therefore, since last month, the process of withdrawing D-20s from the militias and transferring them to the RF Armed Forces has begun, while there are still shells.
    And the militias receive D-1, model 1943. And you don't see.
    "

    So a good question is how and with what part the artillery will strengthen the Airborne Forces.

    Heavy equipment, artillery levels the mission of the Airborne Forces - let's saturate the Airborne Forces with artillery, tanks, and other heavy systems, and get ... motorized rifle troops. sad
  50. -2
    14 September 2022 00: 55
    Quote: dauria
    These are not wishes. but the requirement of time. And if you have a different opinion - that's your problem

    The requirement of time is to make the most of what you have. Army aviation from the time of the Great Patriotic War (yes, don’t laugh, army aviation by subordination, although not helicopters) was taken from specific princes, bringing into a single fist not even a front, but a group of fronts. Using it exactly where it is needed right now.
    What will the transport helicopters belonging to your brigades do when they "bring" the troops? Sit and wait until the infantry fights? What if for a long time? And if you need to transfer or support those who don’t have these helicopters according to the state in another place?
    Here is the real demand, and not your pulling of forces "let it be in my pocket in reserve." All this has been passed more than once before you, as much as possible. A rake is lying, "but won't it come?"

    Dear, I have outlined my concept.
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Landing forces are mentioned at the end. Their meaning was strictly auxiliary.

    Author, read what you write.
    1. +3
      14 September 2022 09: 17
      Quote: Radikal
      Heavy equipment, artillery levels the mission of the Airborne Forces - let's saturate the Airborne Forces with artillery, tanks, and other heavy systems, and get ... motorized rifle troops.

      Even if all this is done, such as aliens on their plates helped to transfer all this mass of equipment behind enemy lines, as a result, our motorized rifle airborne forces were surrounded, that is, in a situation that ordinary motorized riflemen try to avoid ..., this is some kind of wonderful paradoxical tactics of conducting military operations. known only to paratrooper generals
      1. 0
        5 February 2023 12: 24
        Well, they are dropped to the rear either where there is no one to surround them or in order to strike at the rear of the enemy and surround him already ...
        Figuratively, our brigade is advancing on the enemy battalion, which has taken up the defense, reinforced by a tank company and an artillery division. If you give the brigade an airborne battalion, this is certainly good, but it will still be hard and difficult to knock out the enemy, but if the battalion lands in the rear and destroys or captures the enemy’s artillery division and starts using it already, then most likely left without artillery and forced to keep defense, and occupy all-round defense enemy units will be quickly defeated, destroyed or forced to surrender.
  51. -7
    14 September 2022 10: 29
    This Timokhin competently craps all (all) branches of the military in turn and sits enjoying the fact that there are a million people. They are excitedly discussing his written shit.
    Airborne forces need 1000 BMD-4M and 1000 shells, each with a pair of Product 305 ATGMs for 14,5 km. weighing 105kg (fire and forget). VTA will provide high-precision parachute supplies with everything from water to firewood, 100mm UAS is of course a complete ammo.
  52. 0
    14 September 2022 11: 27
    Quote: agond
    Quote: Radikal
    Heavy equipment, artillery levels the mission of the Airborne Forces - let's saturate the Airborne Forces with artillery, tanks, and other heavy systems, and get ... motorized rifle troops.

    Even if all this is done, such as aliens on their plates helped to transfer all this mass of equipment behind enemy lines, as a result, our motorized rifle airborne forces were surrounded, that is, in a situation that ordinary motorized riflemen try to avoid ..., this is some kind of wonderful paradoxical tactics of conducting military operations. known only to paratrooper generals

    You don’t understand, I’m precisely against turning the Airborne Forces into motorized rifles! bully
  53. -3
    14 September 2022 13: 46
    Another useless article and research that no one will see, and on a topic in which the author is not an expert. I understand from the navy, but from the airborne forces, excuse me, this is no longer yours.
  54. +2
    14 September 2022 16: 13
    wassat The author also forgot to mention Margelov, thanks to whom this branch of the military, which was of little use in the nuclear era, was inflated in the USSR. How many resources did you spend on the Airborne Forces? And how did the combat effectiveness of conventional motorized rifle units sag because of this? (They were recruited on a residual basis) And how many unnecessary losses did the Airborne Forces suffer in local conflicts (where conventional infantry and armored vehicles were needed and not the Airborne Forces with their “cardboard” armor) simply because that they were forced to fight in their standard “aluminum tanks”?
  55. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      15 September 2022 12: 38
      This is an introductory part, to show that parachute landing is generally necessary, but with reservations (they will be in the second part)
    2. 0
      20 September 2022 01: 07
      There is only one short answer to this entire extensive article: a separate branch of the Airborne Forces is not intended to be shoved into all holes like all the remaining ground forces. That's the whole answer. As soon as the airborne forces are used in accordance with their real purpose, it will become sharply clearer
  56. 0
    15 September 2022 00: 50
    Quote from Zoto
    they prepared the army for 41, only in a modern version...

    Well I do not know. Personally, looking from the sofa at what is happening in recent days in Ukraine, I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that in 41 everything was not so bad.
  57. -1
    15 September 2022 01: 07
    Quote: forester
    The author and why are you not in the General Staff))))?)))), since such a super-duper reasonable)))

    Precisely because he is reasonable. Judging by the latest events, we recruit idiots there.
  58. 0
    15 September 2022 09: 00
    >>>although he pinned down as many as 1 German divisions in battles (together with the cavalry of the 7st Guards Cavalry Corps and partisans).
    Error. To fight the 4th Airborne Corps and Belov's cavalrymen, units of 7 German divisions were brought in at different times. While they were sitting in the forests and the supply routes (primarily the Warsaw Highway) were not touched, no attention was paid to them.
    The Germans did not have the strength to clear the territory; the front was hanging on snot
    1. 0
      15 September 2022 21: 10
      So I was wrong.

      But the key is another phrase from the article in this case:

      One can only guess how it would have ended if the three brigades of the 4th Airborne Forces that had not been put into battle then went into battle as infantry in the offensive zone of one of the combined arms armies, and the aircraft were used to supply troops. But what happened happened.
  59. 0
    15 September 2022 13: 35
    We need to wait until the 100mm guns on the BMD-4M are modernized to normal ballistics and a range of up to 20 km with zero recoil, by which time hundreds of three more vehicles would have been produced and a combat module made of titanium, there is nowhere to put it in the Sverdlovsk region.
  60. 0
    16 September 2022 01: 27
    The article is a definite plus! Already looking forward to what comes next!
    I would like to note (and I suspect that they will talk about this in future articles) that the German Wiesel 1/2 can serve as a way out of the situation of lack of protected equipment with sufficient firepower. The problem of the lack of heavy equipment is not completely solved, but the small size and the need to carry only 2 crew members, combined with a developed range of weapons, allows for good survivability. Considering that the Airborne Forces are one of our main strike forces, we could use an analogue of the Wiesel after all..:

    1. Due to its low weight, it can be landed by medium helicopters, without the involvement of heavy Mi aircraft.
    2. Due to its small dimensions and high speed, it will be much more difficult to hit than a BMD
    3. They still have sufficient firepower (our analogue of the Wiesel, like the Wiesel itself, is a convenient platform for various weapons), the vehicle can carry ATGMs, MANPADS, machine guns coaxial with grenade launchers, mortars, automatic cannons, etc.
    4. They retain cross-country ability since it is still a tracked vehicle.
    5. Due to their small size, they can take place in more cramped places where tanks/infantry fighting vehicles/armored personnel carriers cannot pass (narrow roads and mountain paths)
    6. Due to their small size, they are easier to camouflage or hide in a trench (although the latter is something that is forgotten in the modern world, digging is an incredibly useful thing)
    7. Due to the use of a car engine, with a distinct cooling system, the car is not only less noticeable in the infrared observation range (simply because it heats up less than a tank or infantry fighting vehicle), but in theory it will be more difficult and longer to be captured by thermal homing heads of all kinds ATGM and missiles.
    8. The design is incredibly simple, almost primitive, and therefore production can be launched en masse at the facilities of several factories at once.

    At the same time, there will still be niches for which motorcycles, ATVs and buggies can and should be used.
  61. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      18 September 2022 23: 31
      I agree with many things, and this will be in the next part
  62. The comment was deleted.
  63. 0
    20 September 2022 01: 29
    My opinion is that we need to reform the airborne forces into two parts - the first should be light and engage in the capture of special facilities such as nuclear power plants, airports, ports and the like, both in isolation from the main troops and under their cover! And there must be quick reaction troops, which we lacked in the Kharkov region, that is, troops that can be transferred to territory under our control that is under enemy attack, and that play an exclusively defensive function - quickly arrive, dig in and hold the position for as long as necessary
    1. 0
      27 September 2022 19: 03
      Quote: Serg Serg
      After reading, I have the first question (given the new moderation of the moderators)) to the author: what kind of military education does the author of the article have and in which and when units of the Airborne Forces did he serve?

      Even if the author has never served anywhere and has no education at all, it’s not interesting, the main thing is whether the facts given by the author on the history of the use of the Airborne Forces are reliable or not, for example, I cannot challenge them, but can you?
  64. 0
    24 October 2022 13: 46
    Dear authors and customers of the article! It is criminal to talk about reforms, make proposals, illusions, and even more so draw conclusions during the country’s military operations.
  65. 0
    5 February 2023 12: 16
    Dropping a large landing force from airplanes to a more or less equipped enemy is really extremely risky.
    1. The first thing a landing is needed for is a strategic maneuver by forces within the country. The country is large, the speed of modern military operations is very fast, while the troops will travel on trains to the east for 2 weeks, the troops that were there will already be defeated by the enemy. The main method is definitely landing, but in the field it can also be landing, since the airfield can either be destroyed or captured, and in general aviation can be under the threat of interception (by fighters from Alaska, Japan, an aircraft carrier). A similar landing was used in 2014 in Crimea to strengthen the group there.
    2. The second question is the transfer of forces to allied states, for example to Syria. The landing method will be used.
    3. Tactical, primarily helicopter landings, be it Gostomel or covering retreating and/or broken units in the Kharkov region. Although at some point they may develop into an operational one and turn into point 1, it’s just that at the first point the landing will most likely be relatively far from the line of contact, and will be aimed at the defense of cities, airfields, and to plug holes and cover the retreat of broken units, such the landing force will be dropped, if not in the tactical, then in the near operational rear of its troops and enter into battle, if not in minutes, then in the next few hours after the landing.
    3.1. In this sub-item you can add tactical landings to help, on the contrary, for a successful offensive. In order to maintain and expand the captured bridgehead. In this case, both sea (river) landing and helicopters can be used, primarily by landing, although parachute to the near operational rear is possible if there is no threat of falling under enemy air defense or fighters.
    4. Tactical landing of the drg on enemy territory (primarily the 45th brigade, although the most trained units, primarily reconnaissance units of the airborne forces and marines, also have a place). Performed primarily by helicopters. Although there may be options, not the IL-76, of course, but the AN-12...
    5. Operational landing in the event of Hour Hour. High risk on the one hand, on the other hand, after the use of oncoming nuclear strikes, the integrity of the military infrastructure and chain of command will already be disrupted and such a landing has a certain chance of success. The total losses in a nuclear war will be so great that any landing losses, if the task is completed, can be called acceptable. We hope that point 5 will never have to be applied. But I can’t imagine other situations when it would be necessary to force a paragut force into enemy territory. But parachute landing of large units on their territory, according to points 1 and 3, is possible.
  66. The comment was deleted.
  67. 0
    28 February 2023 20: 48
    It is not necessary to reform the Airborne Forces (it is necessary to develop and improve, it is necessary to introduce new technical means, such as UAVs, counter-battery firing stations, etc., but this is necessary for all types of troops, and also at the headquarters of battalions/brigades, instructor positions are needed, the equipment is complex, unit commanders are already cannot train soldiers at the proper level, they need full-time instructors.), but it is necessary to improve the training of motorized rifle and tank crews so that the airborne forces do not have to be used on the first line instead of motorized rifles, but they are used for their intended purpose either as a super mobile reserve, or to develop an offensive in the event of a successful breakthrough of the defense and the collapse of the enemy front.