Ukrainian mobile air defense air defense systems used against Russian aviation

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Ukrainian mobile air defense air defense systems used against Russian aviation

After the collapse of the USSR, a huge amount of military equipment and weapons remained on the territory of Ukraine. The total number of troops stationed in Ukraine in 1991 exceeded 600. The Kyiv, Odessa and Carpathian military districts included six tank and combined arms armies and one army corps.

To protect troops in places of concentration, headquarters, bridges, crossings and other important objects from air strikes, there were 9 anti-aircraft missile brigades equipped with Krug or Buk medium-range air defense systems, as well as long-range S-300V1 air defense systems. Each motorized rifle or tank division was assigned an anti-aircraft missile regiment "Cube" or "Osa". Motorized rifle and tank regiments on the march and in places of concentration from air attacks covered rocket and artillery and missile divisions armed with ZSU-23-4 Shilka, Tunguska air defense missile systems, Tor air defense systems, Strela-10 and Strela -1M".



According to reference data, during the division of Soviet military property, Ukraine received from the army air defense systems: 6 batteries S-300V1, 42 batteries of the Buk air defense system, 27 batteries of the Krug air defense system, 12 batteries of the Kub air defense system. Of the short-range self-propelled systems, there were 24 Tor air defense systems, up to 150 Osa air defense systems, at least 180 Strela-10 and Strela-1M air defense systems, about 50 Tunguska air defense systems. Part of the obsolete complexes was in storage, and they were decommissioned in the second half of the 1990s.

Approximately 10 years after Ukraine became a separate state, the Krug medium-range air defense system remained in service. The leadership of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine considered that it does not make sense to spend resources on maintaining complexes in working order, whose age has exceeded 25 years.


Battery ZRK "Circle" on the march

Although the last modification of the Krug-M1, which appeared in 1974, with a firing range of 6–50 km, could even fight cruise missiles and had an altitude reach of 15–24 m, maintenance of the 500S1M missile guidance station, most of the element base of which was made on electrovacuum devices, required a lot of labor and highly qualified personnel. In addition, due to the cracking of the rubber tanks of anti-aircraft missiles, kerosene often flowed from them, which created a high fire hazard.

Following the Krug air defense system, the Ukrainian military decommissioned the Kub and Buk complexes of the first modification. As on the Krug, there were a lot of electron tubes in the guidance stations of these air defense systems, and the missiles went beyond the warranty period of operation. Of course, in the case of competent maintenance and modernization, these complexes could be operated for another 10–15 years, and they could even survive until February 2022. But the Armed Forces of Ukraine had a significant number of much more modern Buk-M1s, and the outdated air defense systems were disposed of.

In the 1st century, the armed forces of Ukraine completely abandoned the mobile short-range air defense systems Strela-10M, Strela-10SV/M and Osa-AK. These complexes were decommissioned due to the development of a resource and the lack of stocks of conditioned anti-aircraft missiles. However, not all Strela-23 air defense systems of early modifications were turned into scrap metal. Part of the MT-LB base chassis, after a major overhaul, was adapted for transporting MANPADS crews or twin 23-mm ZU-XNUMX anti-aircraft guns were installed on them.

Due to the impossibility of maintaining in working condition, all the available Tor air defense systems and Tunguska air defense missile systems were sent for storage. Without Russian technical support, there was no chance of returning these combat vehicles to service.

Thus, by February 2022, only military air defense systems produced from the mid-1980s to the first half of 1991 remained at the disposal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Some of the complexes were delivered abroad, some were dismantled for spare parts. Due to the lack of on-site air defense systems, the existing military air defense systems of medium and long range were transferred to the air defense systems, which are organizationally part of the Air Force of Ukraine. But since the S-300V1 air defense system and the Buk-M1 air defense system were originally intended to provide air defense and missile defense units and formations of the Ground Forces, they will be considered in this publication.

S-300V1 anti-aircraft missile system


It is known that in the late 1980s, the leadership of the Soviet Army planned to replace the single-channel Krug air defense systems in the district (front) and army levels with multi-channel S-300V anti-aircraft missile systems, which, in addition to manned aviation and cruise missiles, could fight tactical and operational-tactical ballistic missiles. But due to economic difficulties and production problems, this was not possible, and the S-300V air defense systems were produced about 10 times less than the S-300P target ones.

The production of S-300V air defense systems and 9M82 and 9M83 missiles was completed in the early 1990s. For this reason, it was not possible to replace the outdated Krug air defense systems in a 1: 1 ratio at the front and army levels. At the time of the collapse of the USSR, brigades armed with S-300V1 / V air defense systems were not available in all military districts, and the Buk-M1 air defense system, which had limited anti-missile capabilities, became the army subordination complex.


ZRS C-300B

The development of the S-300V faced a number of difficulties, in connection with which in 1983 an intermediate version, known as the S-300V1, entered trial operation, which included only the 9M83 missile defense system, designed to destroy aircraft in conditions of intense radio countermeasures, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. MGM-52 Lance missiles. The S-300V anti-aircraft system with the 9M82 missile, in which it was possible to realize the possibility of hitting MGM-31A Pershing IA ballistic missiles, SRAM air-launched aeroballistic missiles and jamming aircraft, entered service in 1988.

Ukraine, when dividing the Soviet military legacy, got two brigades armed with a simplified modification of the S-300V1 with 9M83 missiles. This air defense system is capable of hitting targets at a distance of 6–72 km. The reach in height is 25 km, the minimum height is 25 m. The probability of hitting an MGM-0,1 Lance ballistic missile was 30-52, and a fighter-type target was 0,5-0,65. It provides detection of aerodynamic targets at a distance of up to 0,7 km and simultaneous firing of 0,9 targets, when pointing at each 240 missiles.

After the start of serial production of the S-300V1, it was planned that all early modification systems would subsequently be finalized to a level corresponding to the S-300V system. But in connection with the collapse of the USSR, this did not happen.


ZRS S-300V1 in position

The main elements of the system are placed on special tracked chassis capable of moving off-road and in deep snow. The S-300V1 included: a 9S15 Obzor-3 all-round radar, a 9S457 mobile command post, a 9S32 multi-channel missile guidance station, 9A83 self-propelled launchers and 9A85 self-propelled launchers.

The Ukrainian 25th anti-aircraft missile brigade, armed with S-300V1, stationed in the vicinity of the city of Stryi, Lviv region, was disbanded in 2002, and its equipment was subsequently used as a source of spare parts.

One of the three divisions of the 137th anti-aircraft missile brigade on a rotational basis was on combat duty on the outskirts of the Uman military airfield, the equipment of the other two divisions was at a permanent deployment point in the Cherkasy region. In 2012, the brigade was disbanded, and the equipment was transferred for storage.

In 2018, it became known that the radar equipment, launchers and 9M83 anti-aircraft missiles of at least one S-300V1 division were brought to working condition at the Zhulyansky Machine-Building Plant VIZAR enterprise in the city of Vyshneve. After that, training firing took place at the Yagorlyk training ground in the Kherson region. It was reported that the overhauled and partially modernized S-300V1 would go into service with the 210th air defense regiment, which was also supposed to be deployed near the Uman airfield, but these plans, apparently, failed to materialize.

The only S-300V1 division was transferred to the 201st anti-aircraft missile brigade, which also has S-300PS air defense systems, with a permanent deployment point in the city of Pervomaisk, Mykolaiv region. Thus, by February 24, 2022, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had the only active S-300V1 anti-aircraft system with a range of more than 70 km against air targets.

Anti-aircraft missile system "Buk-M1"


Prior to the start of the special military operation, the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Air Force of Ukraine, consisting of three anti-aircraft missile regiments, had ten divisions of the Buk-M1 air defense system.


In the 156th and 223rd srp, there were 3 zrdn each, and in the 11th zrp - 4 Buk-M1 zrdn. A few more batteries are in storage, but the return to service of the Buk, available in warehouses, was extremely problematic even before February 24, and now it is all the more impossible.

Even taking into account the fact that all Ukrainian Buk-M1 air defense systems were built in the USSR, they still have good combat potential. Compared with the Kub-M3 and Buk air defense systems, the Buk-M1 modification, which was put into service in 1983, had improved capabilities to deal with cruise missiles and helicopters, the probability of hitting cruise missiles increased, and it also became possible to intercept quickly -tactical ballistic missiles.

The Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile battalion includes: a mobile command post, a detection and target designation station, two anti-aircraft missile batteries with two self-propelled launchers and one 9A39 launcher-loader in each, as well as communications, technical support and maintenance units.


The main elements of the anti-aircraft missile system "Buk-M1"

As part of the Buk-M1 air defense system, the 9S18M1 Kupol-M1 detection and target designation station (range up to 160 km) on a solid-state element base was used. The 9S470 mobile command post, located on the GM-579 chassis, provides reception and processing of information received from the detection station and higher command posts. In the course of combat work, in automatic or manual mode, targets were selected and distributed among self-propelled firing systems, indicating the sectors of responsibility of the SOU.

Self-propelled firing systems 9A310M1 are capable of independently searching for a target in a given sector, each SOU has four anti-aircraft missiles. A self-propelled firing system can perform a fire mission to hit a target autonomously - without target designation from the command post of the division. The telecode communication equipment provides interfacing with the command post and the launcher-charging unit.

To defeat aerodynamic and ballistic targets, 9M38M1 missiles are used with a maximum firing range of 35 km, equipped with a semi-active radar seeker. The probability of destroying a fighter-type target with one missile in the absence of organized interference is 0,8 ... 0,95. The complex is capable of shooting down cruise missiles with a probability of hitting at least 0,4, as well as hovering helicopters - with a probability of 0,3-0,4 at a distance of 3,5 to 10 km.

Even the most perfect weapon ever gets old, needs restorative repair and modernization. Initially, the renewal of the Ukrainian Buk-M1 air defense systems was associated with attempts to sell these systems on the foreign market. To date, the only buyer of Ukrainian "Buks" is Georgia.

Somewhere since 2006, the elements of the Buk-M1 and 9M38M1 missiles have been gradually refurbished at the enterprises of Ukroboronservis with a 10-year life extension.


Prior to the events of 2014, there was cooperation between the Ukrainian state company Ukrspetsexport and the Russian Federal State Unitary Enterprise Rosoboronexport. It is known that Ukrainian specialists repeatedly visited Russian enterprises where anti-aircraft systems and missiles were manufactured. According to the Russian concern Almaz-Antey, Ukraine had about 1 000M9M38 missiles and consulted on extending their service life and modernizing them.

It is worth recognizing that Ukraine managed to keep in working condition a significant part of the existing Buk-M1 air defense systems, which turned out to be a serious adversary for our front-line aviation and in some cases successfully intercepted Russian cruise missiles. The tactics of using these air defense systems depend on the combat situation and location.

In the range of Russian anti-radar missiles and other long-range guided aircraft weapons, the crews of the Buk-M1 systems most often use "ambush" tactics, without constantly using radar stations. At the same time, individual self-propelled firing systems are capable of operating autonomously, receiving target designation from external sources or conducting a visual search for a target. The illumination radar is turned on and the target is captured immediately before the launch of an anti-aircraft missile. When covering stationary objects in the depths of defense, anti-aircraft batteries are usually on duty with surveillance radars turned on, which makes it possible to timely detect cruise missiles flying at low altitude.

According to foreign expert estimates, about half of the Ukrainian Buk-M1 air defense systems have been disabled or destroyed. In addition, during the hostilities, most of the 9M38M1 missiles with an extended resource were used up. However, due to a fairly high firing range, good noise immunity, mobility and survivability of individual elements, these systems still pose a serious danger.


Fortunately, this type of air defense system was not supplied to the Eastern European countries that were part of the Warsaw Pact, and therefore they are not in NATO. The fate of the three divisions transferred in 1997 to Finland in payment of the Soviet debt is not known for certain. 10 years after the delivery, the command of the Finnish army announced that the control systems of the Russian Buk-M1 air defense systems that covered Helsinki were "subject to decryption" and they were removed from service. It is likely that after that, anti-aircraft systems sailed overseas and could be delivered to Ukraine.

Short-range anti-aircraft missile system Osa-AKM


As of mid-February 2022, the military air defense of Ukraine had over 110 Osa-AKM air defense systems. Experts write that no more than 90 units were actually combat-ready. Like the S-300V1 air defense system and the Buk-M1 air defense system, the Osa-AKM systems were built in the USSR, and the age of the newest vehicles is 35 years.


Ukrainian air defense systems "Osa-AKM" in the parade

The combat vehicle of the Osa-AKM air defense system is based on a three-axle wheeled chassis BAZ-5937, which houses the entire radio instrument complex and six anti-aircraft missiles. Thanks to this arrangement, it was possible to obtain high autonomy and flexibility of use.

The self-propelled chassis ensures the average speed of the complex on dirt roads during the day - 36 km / h, at night - 25 km / h. The maximum speed on the highway is up to 80 km / h. Afloat - 7-10 km / h.

An all-round radar operating in the centimeter range detects a fighter-type target at a distance of up to 40 km at a flight altitude of 5 m. Antenna stabilization in the horizontal plane allows searching and detecting a target while moving.

The radio command guidance system has two sets of antennas of medium and wide beams for capturing and further inserting two missiles into the beam of the target tracking station at launch with an interval of 3-5 seconds. When firing at helicopters at a height of less than 25 meters, the complex used a special method of guiding missiles with semi-automatic tracking of targets in angular coordinates using a television-optical sight. TOV is also used in interference suppression of the radar tracking channel.

The target is hit at a range of 1,5–10 km and an altitude of 25–5 m by a 000M9MZ anti-aircraft missile with radio command guidance. Depending on the range, direction, and flight speed of a fighter-type target, the probability of hitting is 33–0,5. There is the possibility of shelling helicopters with rotating propellers on the ground.

According to reference data, the probability of hitting an AH-1 Huey Cobra helicopter on the ground was 0,07-0,12, flying at a height of 10 meters - 0,12-0,55, hovering at a height of 10 meters - 0,12-0,38 . Although the probability of hitting is relatively low in most cases, launching a missile at a helicopter hiding in the folds of the terrain, as a rule, leads to the failure of the attack. In addition, the realization by combat helicopter pilots that flying at ultra-low altitude does not guarantee invulnerability from air defense systems has a significant psychological impact.

In the Soviet army, the Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile regiment, attached to tank and mechanized divisions, had five firing batteries and a control battery. The fire battery included four combat vehicles and a battery command post PU-12M. The regiment's control battery included a PU-12M control post, P-18, P-19 detection radars, a PRV-16 radio altimeter, and medium-power mobile radios.

Some time ago, some part of the Osa-AKM air defense system went through a program of restoration and “minor modernization” at the enterprises of Ukroboronservis, and the service life of anti-aircraft missiles was also extended.


At the moment, some part of the Ukrainian "Os" is destroyed and out of order. Taking into account the length of the front line and the intensity of hostilities, even the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine does not have accurate information on how many units of the Osa-AKM air defense system are actually capable of combating an air enemy. Although these complexes cannot be called modern, they still have to be taken into account when planning the actions of Russian military aviation.

The main danger of the Osa-AKM complex lies in its ability to counteract hovering combat helicopters or those flying at low speed at extremely low altitude. They also pose a threat to attack aircraft. Heat traps are absolutely ineffective against missiles with a radio command guidance system. Unlike the Su-35S and Su-30SM multifunctional fighters and Su-34 front-line bombers, Su-25 attack aircraft and attack helicopters do not have electronic countermeasure stations for missiles with a radio command and radar guidance system.

In theory, the Kh-31 and Kh-58 missiles, which are aimed at sources of high-frequency radiation, should work well against the Osa-AKM air defense system. But in reality, Russian front-line aviation uses anti-radar missiles to a very limited extent, and the Russian Aerospace Forces did not even manage to completely suppress the guidance stations of Ukrainian long-range anti-aircraft missile systems and powerful surveillance radars on duty.

An indirect confirmation of the good effectiveness of the Osa-AKM air defense system is the fact that the Ukrainian authorities are actively looking for such systems on the foreign market. In particular, the issue of acquiring the Osa-AK air defense system in Jordan was considered. Among the NATO countries capable of supplying Wasps as part of gratuitous military assistance, they are in Bulgaria, Greece, Romania and Poland.

Of greatest interest to the Armed Forces are the Polish Osa-AKM-P1 Żądło (Osa-P). About a third of the 64 Osa-AKM air defense systems received by Poland in the mid-1980s, starting from 2005, were radically modernized at the Wojskowe Zakłady Uzbroje SA enterprise in the city of Grudziadz.


Polish air defense system Osa-R

During the modernization, the radar equipment underwent processing, with a partial transition to a new element base. The noise immunity of an observation station designed to detect air targets has been increased. The transfer of the receiver of the anti-aircraft missile guidance station to digital signal processing made it possible to improve the accuracy and, accordingly, the probability of destruction. New means of indication and modern monitors for displaying the air situation have been introduced.

The combat potential of the modernized Osa-P air defense system has been significantly increased due to the introduction of a passive sighting and search optoelectronic station, which allows searching and firing targets without turning on the detection radar, which unmasks the complex with high-frequency radiation. This passive OLS is a combination of a television sight with a thermal imager and a laser rangefinder.

The Ministry of Defense of Poland planned to operate the Osa-P air defense system until 2026, after which they were to be replaced by new Poprad-2 mobile air defense systems with laser-guided missiles. However, the upgraded Polish "Wasps" may soon be in Ukraine.

Short-range anti-aircraft missile system "Strela-10"


According to information posted in the public domain, at the beginning of this year, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had at least 150 Strela-10 air defense systems. Apparently, this number includes obsolete and faulty complexes to be written off. The most recent combat vehicles of the Strela-10M2 / M3 modification are of combat value, the previous versions of the Strela-10SV / M are outdated and exhausted. Some sources claim that in mid-February, the Ukrainian army had about 80 combat-ready Strela-10M2 / M3 air defense systems.


Compared to the Osa air defense system, the Strela-10 complex is much cheaper, simpler and more compact. The MT-LB tracked chassis is used as a base, covered with light armor. The installation has four ready-to-use anti-aircraft missiles located in sealed transport and launch containers, four more spare missiles are transported inside the vehicle. The lightly armored tracked chassis is capable of moving at speeds up to 60 km/h. Cruising on the highway - up to 500 km. An anti-aircraft missile platoon usually has four combat vehicles. The command vehicle was equipped with a passive radio direction finder and a millimeter range radio range finder, the rest of the vehicles have only a radio range finder.

In the Soviet army, a platoon of the Strela-10 short-range air defense system, together with a platoon of the Tunguska air defense missile system or ZSU-23-4 Shilka, was part of the rocket and artillery battery of the anti-aircraft division of the tank (motorized rifle) regiment.

Since 1981, the Strela-10M2 air defense system has been mass-produced. This variant received equipment for automated target designation reception from the PU-12M battery control unit or the control unit of the head of the air defense regiment PPRU-1, as well as target designation equipment that provided automated targeting of the launcher. To destroy air targets, 9M37M missiles were used. The homing head of this anti-aircraft missile selected the target according to trajectory characteristics, which made it possible to reduce the effectiveness of heat traps.

In 1989, the Strela-10M3 complex was adopted by the Soviet army. Combat vehicles of this modification were equipped with new aiming and search electro-optical equipment, providing a 20–30% increase in the detection range of small targets, as well as improved equipment for launching guided missiles, which made it possible to reliably capture the target with a homing head. The new 9M333 guided missile compared to the 9M37M SAM had a modified container and engine, as well as a new seeker with three receivers in different spectral ranges, with logical target selection against the background of optical interference on trajectory and spectral features, which significantly increased noise immunity. A more powerful warhead and the use of a non-contact laser fuse increased the chance of being hit on a miss.

The 9M333 SAM has a launch weight of 41 kg and an average flight speed of 550 m/s. Firing range: 800–5 m. Targets can be hit in the altitude range: 000–10 m. Probability of hitting a fighter-type target with one missile in the absence of organized interference: 3–500.

In fact, the Strela-10M3 air defense system has approximately the same affected area and reach in height as the Igla MANPADS. However, unlike a portable complex, a mobile air defense system is better suited for long-term duty, the crew is covered with armor, it is possible to accurately determine the distance to the target and obtain external target designation, and the command vehicle, using a passive direction finder, detects enemy aircraft by radiation from on-board radio systems.

However, there are also enough shortcomings. When assessing the combat value of the Strela-10M2 / M3 complexes, it should be taken into account that the target is detected by the operator visually, after which it is required to orient the launcher in the direction of the target, wait for the target to be captured by the GOS and launch the rocket. In conditions of extremely short-lived confrontation between air defense systems and modern means of air attack, when an enemy attack often takes a matter of seconds, the slightest delay can be fatal.

A big drawback of even the most recent Strela-10M3 air defense system, developed in the USSR, is the impossibility of effective operation at night and in adverse weather conditions. This is due to the lack of a thermal imaging channel in the sighting and search system of the complex. Anti-aircraft missiles 9M37M and 9M333 no longer fully meet modern requirements. These missiles have insufficient maneuverability for the current conditions, small boundaries of the affected area in range and height.

The strike zone of the Strela-10M3 air defense system is much less than the range of modern aviation anti-tank missiles, and the “jump” tactics used by helicopters greatly reduces the possibility of their shelling due to the long reaction time. The probability of hitting aircraft flying at high speed and performing anti-aircraft maneuvers with simultaneous firing of heat traps does not exceed 0,2–0,3.


A few years ago, the Ukrainian company Aerotekhnika-ML presented a variant of the modernization of the Strela-10 air defense system. The upgraded complex was supposed to receive a passive thermal imaging OLS with a range of up to 12 km, a laser rangefinder and new anti-jamming missiles with a combined IR-UV seeker.

Design Bureau "Luch" at the exhibition "Arms and Security - 2021" presented a version of the complex with the R-10-OF missile. The missile is aimed at the target by a laser beam with target tracking in automatic mode. The speed of a two-stage rocket is 750 m/s. The maximum firing range is up to 10 km. The mass of the rocket is 62 kg, the warhead is 38 kg. However, none of the proposed options for the modernization of the Ukrainian Strela-10 air defense systems has reached the stage of mass production. It is possible that, as in Russia, preventive maintenance of old 9M37M and 9M333 anti-aircraft missiles was carried out in Ukraine.

Despite a number of shortcomings, the Armed Forces of Ukraine still continue to use Strela-10M2/M3 mobile complexes. Even taking into account the low reliability of missiles and the not too high probability of hitting aircraft and helicopters equipped with thermal jamming systems, outdated systems, if used correctly, can be dangerous.

To be continued ...
113 comments
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  1. +14
    7 September 2022 05: 37
    Well, I was sure that not a single of our cruise missiles was intercepted. Naive Chukchi grandfather.
    1. +27
      7 September 2022 05: 43
      Quote: ASAD
      Well, I was sure that not a single of our cruise missiles was intercepted. Naive Chukchi grandfather.

      Nikolai, even the air defense of Yugoslavia successfully intercepted the American Tomahawk missiles, and the Ukrainian air defense is an order of magnitude stronger than the Yugoslav one. hi
      1. +15
        7 September 2022 05: 44
        Thank you for the article. But he himself served in air defense, for a long time it's true.
        1. +11
          7 September 2022 05: 45
          Quote: ASAD
          Thank you for the article.

          drinks
          Quote: ASAD
          But he himself served in air defense, for a long time it's true.

          If it's not a secret, where did you serve and on what equipment?
          1. +15
            7 September 2022 05: 49
            In Norilsk C200 Commander of the department for the repair of TZM.
            1. +14
              7 September 2022 05: 55
              Quote: ASAD
              In Norilsk C200 Commander of the department for the repair of TZM.

              Position on the hill south of Norilsk, and to your left are the production shops? Rough places...
            2. 0
              14 September 2022 10: 04
              And what is 200?
          2. +9
            7 September 2022 09: 49
            I served on the S-75 on about. Sakhalin. By the way, the question is - the concept of "starting battery" is applicable to which complexes?
            1. +2
              9 September 2022 23: 23
              By the way, the question is - the concept of "starting battery" is applicable to which complexes?
              In general, it is applicable (as a regular unit) to all air defense systems from the "C" series, starting from the first, in their row - S-25 ... And not applicable to military air defense air defense systems (Cube, Buk, Tor, Krug .. .).
              Also, starting batteries are provided regularly in the Strategic Missile Forces.
              1. +1
                10 September 2022 20: 17
                Thanks, got it.
      2. +15
        7 September 2022 06: 24
        Good morning, Sergey! smile
        You did not want to touch on the topic of this war, namely the war, but nevertheless, professionalism outweighed. Thank you, something I myself guessed, now with your help I know for sure. "Not all is well in the Kingdom of Denmark",
        Eh, you would take up not only air defense, it would be interesting for many to read about other equipment, but for some it would be useful.

        Big hello Ole. love
        1. +20
          7 September 2022 06: 29
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Good morning, Sergey!

          Kostya, hello! Haven't talked to you for a long time, as well as with your nephew. How is he feeling, by the way?
          Quote: Sea Cat
          You did not want to touch on the topic of this war, namely the war, but nevertheless, professionalism outweighed.

          I look at what is happening, and I'm freaking out about it. belay Almost every mistake that could have been made has been made. sad
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Eh, you would take up not only air defense, it would be interesting for many to read about other equipment, but for some it would be useful.

          I only write about what I know a little about. request
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Big hello Ole.

          Thanks, she says hello to you too! She said that your photo with a German machine gun was incomparable!
          1. +10
            7 September 2022 06: 37

            I look at what is happening, and I'm freaking out about it.

            Yeah, me too, somehow... I can't find the term. laughing Below, on this occasion, I recalled a well-known character who, obviously, never imagined that his idea could be correlated with this war.
            And the Nephew is all right, but Mikola has a birthday and a grand Sabantuy is planned in St. Petersburg. wink Then it will make sense to inquire about the health of the entire company. drinks laughing
            1. +13
              7 September 2022 06: 43
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Yeah, me too, somehow... I can't find the term.

              You will be banned for this term, although I also wanted to write that way. laughing
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Below, on this occasion, I recalled a well-known character who, obviously, never imagined that his idea could be correlated with this war.

              Yes, I have seen. good
              Quote: Sea Cat
              And the Nephew is all right, but Mikola has a birthday and a grand Sabantuy is planned in St. Petersburg. wink That's when it will make sense to inquire about the health of the whole company.

              I regularly go for mushrooms, threw off pictures to Anton, he replied that he was sick. Regarding Sabantuy, you intrigued me! I'm on a northern vacation, if it weren't for the upcoming move to a new apartment, I would have waved to the guys in St. Petersburg!
              1. +6
                7 September 2022 07: 22
                if not for the upcoming move to a new apartment, I would have waved to the guys in St. Petersburg!

                Anton promised to make a photo report, at least we will attend. smile drinks
                1. +7
                  7 September 2022 07: 28
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  Anton promised to make a photo report, at least we will attend.

                  I would prefer to attend in person. Nice company, very interesting interlocutors...
                  1. +10
                    7 September 2022 07: 31
                    I would also prefer it personally, but I have other problems - they drive me to the hospital for prophylaxis right with kicks, my wife, along with a doctor friend.
                    What are the trips... request
                    1. +13
                      7 September 2022 07: 42
                      Correctly driven! Better kicks than the ambulance like last time.
                      1. +8
                        7 September 2022 07: 45
                        From the outside, the voice of reason often sounds more convincing.
                      2. +11
                        7 September 2022 08: 02
                        Do not divulge family secrets. laughing
                      3. +4
                        7 September 2022 08: 08
                        I do not disclose anything, Masha then called me and asked the people to notify.
                      4. +5
                        7 September 2022 08: 13
                        Yes, I'm joking, I myself asked her to ring you. smile
              2. +6
                7 September 2022 07: 28
                Good day, Sergey!
                It's all right now.
                Hi Olga!
                1. +10
                  7 September 2022 07: 38
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  Good day, Sergey!

                  Hi! drinks
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  It's all right now.

                  I am glad!
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  Hi Olga!

                  Thank you! She bows to you too!
                  We had a typhoon, trees and poles fell.

          2. 0
            9 September 2022 22: 06
            I look at what is happening, and I'm freaking out about it. belay Almost all the mistakes that could be made have been made. sad
            It seems to be the result of a generational change. But in war they learn quickly.
      3. +4
        7 September 2022 11: 02
        Thank you, I always read your articles with interest. hi
      4. +7
        7 September 2022 14: 44
        I would even say that the Ukrainian air defense at the time of the beginning of its was in the top five strongest on the planet. At least ten.
        The article is interesting as always, but this is what was in the ranks at the beginning of the operation. I think by this moment everything decommissioned has been lifted from storage, which can be put into operation by cannibalism or the installation of used spare parts. What was unacceptable in peacetime, such as installing old spare parts, is normal in the military. Plus, they are helped with repairs and spare parts from abroad. There are many of the same Osa air defense systems abroad. Again, a significant number of videos with unsuccessful missile launches indicate that they are firing old, unexpanded missiles. And here the main question is how many decommissioned systems from storage they can put into operation. How many zuras could they potentially have in storage? What can be delivered from beyond the cordon? hi
    2. +5
      7 September 2022 05: 45
      The Russian Aerospace Forces failed to even completely suppress the guidance stations of Ukrainian long-range anti-aircraft missile systems and powerful surveillance radars on duty.
      and why ? strange war.
      1. +18
        7 September 2022 05: 48
        Quote: Aerodrome
        and why ? strange war.

        It will be possible to talk about this when the current leadership of the Defense Ministry and the country leaves ... request
        Using the term "war" you are at great risk. sad
        1. +15
          7 September 2022 06: 31
          The Russian Aerospace Forces failed to even completely suppress the guidance stations of Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile systems

          and why ? strange war.

          Using the term "war" you are at great risk.


          1. +8
            7 September 2022 08: 14
            "According to various estimates, the number of wild cats in Australia is 10 to 20 million individuals. Previously, the Australians declared a real war on cats in order to protect animals that are hunted by predators: a reward was appointed for each wild cat killed. In addition, construction began on the continent of a large anti-cat fence three meters high to enclose the territory of the reserve with an area of ​​94 square kilometers.
            A cat is not an anti-aircraft missile, but its impact on the world around it is HUGE!
            1. +6
              7 September 2022 08: 20
              Hi Aleksey!
              Very interesting information, however, I had in mind a little different ... smile
              1. +11
                7 September 2022 08: 28
                My cat is beautiful, and smarter than many dogs. She loves me beyond measure, and I even promised to marry her in my next life.

                But in anger, she is terrible and very jealous.
                1. +7
                  7 September 2022 08: 57
                  I would introduce her to my Lucky, the kittens would be beautiful. smile

                  1. +7
                    7 September 2022 11: 16
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    I would introduce her to my Lucky, the kittens would be beautiful.

                    Alas, nothing will come of it. Our cats are sterilized. An unsterilized oryk is quite expensive, and it's not a small smut to breed them. They require a lot of attention as well. If you do not communicate with the Orics, they become depressed. These are catops.
                    1. +3
                      7 September 2022 20: 14
                      Yes, it's easier for us with our beast from the "garbage dump". smile
                2. The comment was deleted.
              2. +4
                7 September 2022 08: 54
                Good morning Konstantin!
                Just saw an article about Australian scientists trying to implant poison capsules into native mice and thought I'd share part of that article.
                According to Australian scientists, cats are involved in the extinction of 31 local animal species.
                Their main problems
                because of cats, foxes, feral pigs and of course rabbits!
                1. +5
                  7 September 2022 08: 59
                  It's a bit strange, there are no problems with cats anywhere, but in Australia there is. request
                  1. +5
                    7 September 2022 09: 15
                    The specifics of the local fauna.
                    And the absence of natural enemies for foxes and feral cats.
                    1. +6
                      7 September 2022 09: 24
                      Do we, cats have natural enemies?
                      1. +7
                        7 September 2022 09: 38
                        From flocks of crows to large birds of prey, wolves, foxes, lynx, wolverine.
                      2. +1
                        7 September 2022 19: 59
                        But not a person. We did not think of sewing up capsules with poison in live mice. wassat
                      3. +2
                        7 September 2022 20: 37
                        So they poisoned rabbits with two viruses already !!!
                        For the first time, 500 million wild rabbits out of 600 died!
                      4. +1
                        7 September 2022 21: 09
                        Where was the Society for the Protection of Animals? laughing
                      5. +6
                        7 September 2022 10: 32
                        It's not even about the enemies, but about the climate. It should also be understood that the Australian fauna has never encountered such predators as a cat.
                      6. 0
                        7 September 2022 20: 00
                        the Australian fauna has never encountered such predators as a cat.


                        What about rabbits?
        2. +4
          7 September 2022 17: 52
          The current leadership of the Russian Defense Ministry, represented by Shoigu, said in early April, in my opinion, that 90% of Ukrainian military infrastructure has been destroyed. No comment.
          And the article is great. Write more. I remembered my youth and the S-300, and dancing with a tambourine with the Baikal automated control system. Although then they didn’t talk about dancing then.
      2. +3
        7 September 2022 05: 56
        I also ask this question. The complexes are Soviet, and therefore their characteristics and operating modes should be well known to those who need it. In theory, you can easily put interference on them.
        1. +18
          7 September 2022 06: 02
          Quote: DominickS
          The complexes are Soviet, and therefore their characteristics and operating modes should be well known to those who need it. In theory, you can easily put interference on them.

          This number may have passed with the complexes of the S-75 family, where the guidance channels are suppressed relatively easily. But, as for the S-300V and Buk-M1, the launchers of these systems are equipped with their own illumination and guidance stations with dozens of lettered frequencies. So what about "
          Quote: DominickS
          you can easily interfere with them
          - you got very excited. In addition, with the REB equipment available on our aircraft, contrary to propaganda, everything is also not cloudless.
      3. +7
        7 September 2022 14: 47
        There were stupidly many of them. And they don't work all the time. In such territory it is a long search.
        1. +7
          7 September 2022 15: 27
          Quote: g1v2
          There were stupidly many of them. And they don't work all the time. In such territory it is a long search.

          We need a satellite constellation, aircraft / UAV AWACS, strike and reconnaissance UAVs, as well as a lot of cheap high-precision GBU-nis. Then, even in such a territory with relatively shitty electronic warfare on airplanes, the entire air defense system can be knocked out in a maximum of three weeks, and then you can start cosplaying the 2nd-6th days of the Six-Day War of 1967.
          The Ministry of Defense was spending too much money on Iskander-Caliber-Daggers, relatively scoring on everything else.
  2. +6
    7 September 2022 07: 17
    The Russian Aerospace Forces did not even manage to completely suppress the guidance stations of Ukrainian long-range anti-aircraft missile systems and powerful surveillance radars on duty

    And where did the whole experience of the USSR go, in terms of that part of the doctrine where the suppression of enemy air defense is the 1st stage of an offensive operation?
    1. +20
      7 September 2022 07: 20
      And where did the whole experience of the USSR go,


      I won’t say, they will immediately ban me.
      1. +7
        7 September 2022 07: 58
        The direction can be accurately specified. Although, options for a ban can always be found.
        1. +10
          7 September 2022 08: 07
          That's just the point, if there is a "general idea", then they will always find something to complain about.
          1. +7
            7 September 2022 08: 09
            However, the answer to the rhetorical question is not required.
            1. +7
              7 September 2022 08: 15
              It's like asking, "Why am I a water carrier?" laughing
    2. +10
      7 September 2022 08: 15
      Quote: Civil
      where is the suppression of enemy air defenses the 1st stage of an offensive operation?

      How to say. Doctrines to write - not to roll bags (although this can be done through this very thing). Comprehension of the Vietnamese experience and the Arab-Israeli special military operations passed by the USSR, which was known back in the 80s. And not in theory, but in practice.
      1. +10
        7 September 2022 08: 20
        Quote: Negro
        Quote: Civil
        where is the suppression of enemy air defenses the 1st stage of an offensive operation?

        How to say. Doctrines to write - not to roll bags (although this can be done through this very thing). Comprehension of the Vietnamese experience and the Arab-Israeli special military operations passed by the USSR, which was known back in the 80s. And not in theory, but in practice.

        Creating a normal PCR is also not very easy, as well as correctly applying it. What is only the first Soviet PLR X-28 with a rocket engine. wassat And the rest of the later samples, frankly, not a masterpiece. No.
        1. +12
          7 September 2022 08: 47
          I knew a man who took part in the export of the first American PRR from Vietnam to the Union. He told me that for almost half a year they were waiting for the case when the unexploded rocket could be grabbed. Then they took it out in a carpet through China :) On the basis of the received copy, the USSR developed the first countermeasures. In particular, a sector mode of operation was introduced at Saturn stations.
        2. +5
          7 September 2022 13: 08
          What can you say about the X-15? They seem to be "all" wink
          1. +8
            7 September 2022 13: 22
            Quote: frog
            What can you say about the X-15? They seem to be "all"

            According to open sources, the Kh-15P aeroballistic launcher has been withdrawn from service. But we are not discussing the armament of strategic bombers here, are we?
            1. +5
              7 September 2022 13: 38
              So I am for its capabilities, for work on the radar .... And so - no, we are not discussing)))
            2. +5
              7 September 2022 14: 05
              Quote: Bongo
              According to open sources, the Kh-15P aeroballistic launcher has been decommissioned.

              X-15 is a very difficult target to intercept. According to publicly available sources, the speed of this rocket in the final section exceeds 5M. Even the slower X-22s are difficult to intercept, but frankly, their accuracy is not very good.
      2. +2
        7 September 2022 15: 42
        Quote: Negro
        Comprehension of the Vietnamese experience and the Arab-Israeli special military operations passed by the USSR, which was known back in the 80s. And not in theory, but in practice.

        Why? In terms of air defense, wonderful work was done (which went in the wrong direction in 1982, however), in terms of aviation - so the Soviet one covered objects there (also air defense), did not carry out attacking actions. Plus aerial reconnaissance.
    3. +6
      7 September 2022 15: 38
      Quote: Civil
      And where did the whole experience of the USSR go, in terms of that part of the doctrine where the suppression of enemy air defense is the 1st stage of an offensive operation?

      These were theoretical developments, in practice, after the Second World War, Soviet troops never worked against an enemy with a distinct air defense, while their own air defense was tested in Vietnam and BV against modern aviation.
      From there, the consequences are good air defense and having a vague concept of suppressing the air defense of the enemy VKS
    4. +7
      7 September 2022 16: 02
      I may not be aware, but where did the USSR crush the enemy’s massive air defense? Where does he get this experience from? Maybe I don’t remember something, but the last time our massive air defense was crushed even when there was not even an air defense system. And it’s only that the states pressed and then an order of magnitude weaker.
  3. -11
    7 September 2022 08: 24
    Something just two articles was enough willpower. On the third, strange statements began to slip.
    even the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine does not have accurate information on how many units of the Osa-AKM air defense system are really capable of combating an air enemy

    How does the author know this?
    9M82 missile, in which it was possible to realize the possibility of destroying ballistic missiles of the MGM-31A Pershing IA type, SRAM air-launched aeroballistic missiles and jamming aircraft

    Are these regular statements by RIA Novosti sources in the military-industrial complex, or is the author aware of the S-300's work on the listed targets in combat conditions?
    most often they use the tactics of "ambushes", without constantly using radar stations. At the same time, individual self-propelled firing systems are capable of operating autonomously, receiving target designation from external sources or conducting a visual search for a target. The illumination radar is turned on and the target is captured immediately before the launch of an anti-aircraft missile

    Again I hear about external sources. Do you mean the notorious avaks or did the Ukrainians of NORAD manage to drink?
    1. +19
      7 September 2022 08: 35
      Quote: Negro
      How does the author know this?

      This is obvious, even at the KShU in Soviet times, reports on serviceable equipment from units at the army air defense command post were received with a delay of about a day. Do you want to say that the situation is better in conditions of armed confrontation?
      Quote: Negro
      Are these regular statements by RIA Novosti sources in the military-industrial complex, or is the author aware of the S-300's work on the listed targets in combat conditions?

      I did not expect such arrogance from you. No.
      This was in the terms of reference for the design of the S-300V, and is mentioned in many sources.
      Quote: Negro
      Again I hear about external sources. Do you mean the notorious avaks or did the Ukrainians of NORAD manage to drink?

      And the 36D6-M or 80K6 radars that are not part of the zrdn are not an external source?
      I would be glad if you continue to ask questions on the case. hi
      1. +1
        7 September 2022 09: 31
        Quote: Bongo
        This is obvious, even at the KShU in Soviet times, reports on serviceable equipment from units at the air defense command post of the army level

        That is, the trivial "headquarters at any time n cannot know the exact number of combat-ready weapons x" is meant. OK, let's consider my remark as a taste difference.
        Quote: Bongo
        This was in the terms of reference for the design of the S-300V, and is mentioned in many sources.

        It is somehow even inconvenient to see from a seemingly still sane person a statement of the form "was in the terms of reference = achieved." Especially from a person who knows that 91 greatly changed the understanding of missile defense, and the designers of the 70s and 80s obviously could not know these circumstances.

        Quote: Bongo
        And the 36D6-M or 80K6 radars that are not part of the zrdn are not an external source?

        That is, in fact, you are talking about a certain collective-farm norad of the Vietnamese level at least - 80K6 (there seemed to be two of them. And they are still alive, wow) monitor the airspace, transmit what they see (via civilian networks?) to the sector, where the division of beeches roams. This is an interesting topic - I have not seen anyone get around to taking it up.
        1. +12
          7 September 2022 11: 12
          Quote: Negro
          It is somehow even inconvenient to see from a seemingly still sane person a statement of the form "was in the terms of reference = achieved." Especially from a person who knows that 91 greatly changed the understanding of missile defense, and the designers of the 70s and 80s obviously could not know these circumstances.

          You can believe me or not, it's up to you. But the S-300V air defense system is really capable of quite effectively fighting OTP.
          Quote: Negro
          That is, in fact, you are talking about a certain collective-farm norad of the Vietnamese level at least - 80K6 (there seemed to be two of them. And they are still alive, wow) monitor the airspace, transmit what they see (via civilian networks?) to the sector, where the division of beeches roams. This is an interesting topic - I have not seen anyone get around to taking it up.

          I'm talking about the fact that the Buk-M1 air defense systems are capable of receiving target designation from different Radar decimeter / centimeter frequency range. According to my data, more than two 80K6 stations were built, and 36D6-M, 36D6, 35D5 (ST-68U) radars - much more than two. After all, you won’t deny that working three-coordinate radars have been preserved in Ukraine, will you?
          1. +2
            7 September 2022 13: 46
            Quote: Bongo
            But the S-300V air defense system is really capable of quite effectively fighting OTP.

            You see, I'm used to overly optimistic statements by Russian manufacturers. As for the S-300, their "efficiency" could only be seen on the example of the Points - the very fact of the launch of the latter causes a cheerful surprise. Your statement about the Soviet serial THAAD of the 88th year attracts much more attention than you think.
            Quote: Bongo
            Radars 36D6-M, 36D6, 35D5 (ST-68U) - much more than two. After all, you won’t deny that working three-coordinate radars have been preserved in Ukraine, will you?

            I won't, of course. However, I perceive the ST-68 as a radar that connects to the S-300 or Buk as part of one complex, replacing or supplementing regular equipment. You are describing a more complex scheme of nomadic radar stations - a network of national or front-line scale - nomadic batteries. Haven't heard of this yet.
            1. +3
              7 September 2022 16: 39
              Quote: Negro
              However, I perceive the ST-68 as a radar that connects to the S-300 or Buk as part of one complex, replacing or supplementing regular equipment.

              You don’t perceive it correctly .. The ST-68U radar (not to be confused with ST-68) is a means of detecting a regimental (brigade) link.
              1. -2
                7 September 2022 18: 23
                Quote: Tucan
                The ST-68U radar (not to be confused with the ST-68) is a means of detecting a regimental (brigade) level.

                OK.

                How does this fit in with weapons?
                1. +2
                  7 September 2022 23: 52
                  Quote: Negro
                  How does this fit in with weapons?

                  Through ASU.
                  1. 0
                    8 September 2022 08: 42
                    ACS level directly battery or higher level?
                    1. +3
                      8 September 2022 13: 09
                      Quote: Negro
                      ACS level directly battery or higher level?

                      Through the command post of the brigade (vehicle 73N6). Read in open sources about the ACS "Baikal", in Ukraine this system works.
                      1. 0
                        8 September 2022 14: 03
                        That is, it turns out that the former brothers formed air defense areas in which regular means of destruction are associated with freelance r / l means through the automated control system of the regional level.

                        This is already an interesting conversation.
          2. +1
            7 September 2022 22: 26
            In general, they write a lot on the net that the air defense of Ukraine receives a lot of information about targets from NATO command posts, and those from reconnaissance aircraft and satellites, and very quickly. For this reason, our bombers do not fly deep into Ukraine, and Ukrainian radar stations are put into operation at the "last second." A minute shone, started up, turned off.
    2. +8
      7 September 2022 09: 22
      For BUK, anything can be an external source. From the closed digital communication line of the launcher with the same AWACS, which broadcasts the air situation in real time, to the brainwashed kid with a mobile phone who knows the number of the launcher commander. The main thing for him is to get operational information about the approximate azimuth and removal of the target, then he will do everything with his regular guidance tools if the target is within reach.
  4. 0
    7 September 2022 08: 57
    It was lucky that the Tunguska is in service with either the allied countries or the neutral ones (Belarus, India, Syria) Otherwise, Europe would have quickly organized the sending of repair kits and BC to Nezalezhnaya
    1. +12
      7 September 2022 11: 04
      Quote: spirit
      It was lucky that the Tunguska is in service with either the allied countries or the neutral ones (Belarus, India, Syria) Otherwise, Europe would have quickly organized the sending of repair kits and BC to Nezalezhnaya

      There are Tunguska air defense systems in Ukraine, but they are not operational. In fairness, it is worth saying that our army also has big problems with the operation of these machines.
      1. +1
        7 September 2022 12: 16
        There are Tunguska air defense systems in Ukraine, but they are not operational.
        So I'm talking about the same thing hi I mean, it would be like with the MIG29. They would send spare parts and put them into operation. But there is no one to look for, the Hindus believe they will sell something)
      2. +3
        7 September 2022 12: 46
        By the way, why is Tungusok not visible in the NWO zone? UAVs could work.
        1. +9
          7 September 2022 12: 55
          Quote: Klonser
          By the way, why is Tungusok not visible in the NWO zone? UAVs could work.

          At the first stage of the SVO, they were used. The network has relevant photos and videos. It must be understood that the Tunguska is a very capricious and difficult to operate machine.
        2. +3
          7 September 2022 12: 57
          The Independent has no repair kits and bk. but unlike the same instant 29 and t72 that were nowhere in Europe, no one has it (the Hindus have it but they won’t give it). And we don’t want it yet, but that’s for now! I'm sure we'll see. hi
  5. +9
    7 September 2022 09: 33
    The combat potential of the modernized Osa-P air defense system has been significantly increased due to the introduction of a passive sighting and search optoelectronic station, which allows searching and firing targets without turning on the detection radar, which unmasks the complex with high-frequency radiation. This passive OLS is a combination of a television sight with a thermal imager and a laser rangefinder.

    There is a conceptual development of a modification in which the 9M33 missiles are replaced by the German IRIS-T.

    In the light of Ukrainian events and possible deliveries, these works have been accelerated. The possibility of using the American AIM-9 Sidewinder is also being considered.
    1. +10
      7 September 2022 11: 02
      Quote from Nephilim
      There is a conceptual development of a modification in which the 9M33 missiles are replaced by the German IRIS-T.

      It would be more accurate to say it was. The Ministry of Defense of Poland made a fundamental decision to replace the Osa-P air defense system with Poprad-2 laser-guided systems.
      Quote from Nephilim
      The possibility of using the American AIM-9 Sidewinder is also being considered.
      It’s not rational, you won’t be able to get a firing range of 10 km with these missiles.
      1. -4
        7 September 2022 12: 36
        The Ministry of Defense of Poland made a fundamental decision to replace the Osa-P air defense system with Poprad-2 laser-guided systems.

        This is not about Poland, but about Ukraine. That is, the Poles believe that the decommissioned and modernized complex in Poland will strengthen Ukrainian air defense.
        It’s not rational, you won’t be able to get a firing range of 10 km with these missiles.

        Do you have information about the parameters of the latest versions of the AIM-9X Sidewinder rocket? And the results of the latest launches in Norway? I envy your awareness.
        1. +12
          7 September 2022 12: 50
          Decided to troll me?
          Quote from Nephilim
          This is not about Poland, but about Ukraine. That is, the Poles believe that the decommissioned and modernized complex in Poland will strengthen Ukrainian air defense.

          Polish "Wasps" are good in themselves, no one will invest in decommissioned complexes. Moreover, even if they theoretically will be modernized, hostilities will already end. And air defense systems are needed Here and now.
          Quote from Nephilim
          Do you have information about the parameters of the latest versions of the AIM-9X Sidewinder rocket? And the results of the latest launches in Norway? I envy your awareness.

          Envy, it's up to you. request The actual range of the AIM-9X Sidewinder launch against a target actively maneuvering at low altitude is about half the maximum declared. In addition, when firing from a ground installation, it will be even less. SAM MIM-72 Chaparral could hit air targets at ranges up to 5 km. With the new rocket, this figure will be no more than 8 km. There is no point in bothering with the AIM-9X Sidewinder. No.
          1. -3
            7 September 2022 13: 34
            In addition, even if they are theoretically modernized, the hostilities will already end.

            Do you even have information about the timing of the end of hostilities? I am even afraid to imagine the height at which you are sitting and from which you can see so far and clearly.
            1. +10
              7 September 2022 16: 04
              Quote from Nephilim
              I am even afraid to imagine the height at which you are sitting and from which you can see so far and clearly.

              1. -2
                7 September 2022 16: 11
                Do not dramatize the situation. I respect your personality, as well as the materials published by her (personality). But you have declared that you have very important information, I wonder where it came from. But if you can not - do not share, we will understand.
          2. +5
            7 September 2022 14: 00
            hi
            IMHO, in the form of test launches from the "universal launcher" and some kind of single-beam launcher from "Mr. and branches", the AIM9X issue is being worked out as an "urgent measure": " "Dynetics-Raytheon launched the AIM-9X Sidewinder interceptor. According to an industry source, this team used a multipurpose launcher (MML) developed by the Army and Dynetics, but later abandoned in favor of a new competitor. The Army and Dynetics did not respond to questions Jane on the resurgence of a pair of MML interceptors and the AIM-9X Sidewinder at the time of writing.". https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/abandoned-multi-mission-launcher-aim-9x-sidewinder-pairing-revived-for-us-army-air-defence-competition

            But there is some kind of muddy story, with ground AIM9X. request
            IMHO US Armed Forces soldier (in general) they want "here and now" as an urgent measure "Iron House", and the "American Motherland" slips them new Sideuners at the launcher a la Chaparel and asks to "be patient a little" while there is a series.

            IMHO, oddly enough, Iron Dom would be a reasonable solution. recourse
            But since one AIM9X costs under 400 ye, and Iron Dom is twice or even four times cheaper, then why pay cheaply if you can pay dearly? fellow good
            We are waiting for the reincarnation of the Chaparels at the new base.
  6. -5
    7 September 2022 09: 58
    The USSR strikes.
  7. +4
    7 September 2022 11: 00
    It is worth recognizing that Ukraine managed to keep in working condition a significant part ... which turned out to be a serious adversary for our front-line aviation and in some cases successfully intercepted Russian cruise missiles ...

    Yeah... I have to admit a lot of things... I wonder, but before that, on what basis did you make calculations, plans?
  8. +16
    7 September 2022 12: 03
    hi
    As always, great article!

    Judging by the comments - in addition to the air defense systems and memory systems themselves - people are curious about how the APU is doing with the radar network and control system.

    The Buk-M1 air defense systems that covered Helsinki were "subject to decryption", and they were removed from service. It is likely that after that, anti-aircraft systems sailed overseas and could be delivered to Ukraine.
    IMHO, it did. The Finns dragged one Buk launcher to the air defense museum (I found a photo of only one launcher in the museum), something like they were given for tests during the MX17 investigation.
    And complete silence with the wording "recycled."
    Well, IMHO, the Finns, who kept all military equipment in operation to the last opportunity, could not simply "dispose of" a relatively new air defense system. Moreover, according to Wiki, for 2014 "Finland still does use this, mainly in storage. Still ready for wartime use and are all in "operational condition."" And even more so, it is unlikely that they were disposed of after 2014, unless the shipment "overseas" is considered recycling.

    Fortunately, this type of air defense system was not supplied to the Eastern European countries that were part of the Warsaw Pact, and therefore they are not in NATO.
    IMHO, Buki and Torah and C300 were sold to Greece / Cyprus (we will consider them one country feel ), and NATO and Israelis regularly trained on them. Several times I came across information that these air defense systems are asking for honest NATO ("we will not give offense, if anything" or "in exchange for Iriska / Iron Dome, but later") to give the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but so far nothing has been heard about such a transfer.
    "Aug 26 2022 - Forbes: Cyprus may transfer to Ukraine the 9K330 "Tor" and 9K37 "Buk" SAMs, and in exchange will receive the "Iron Dome" from Israel."

    “Cyprus has reportedly reached a historic deal to buy the Iron Dome anti-aircraft missile system from Israel. The deal gives the United States a unique opportunity to push Nicosia to transfer its old Russian air defense systems to Ukraine.

    The Iron Dome could greatly enhance the limited air defense system of the small island republic, which currently consists of Russian-made short-range 9K330 Tor and medium-range 9K37 Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as short-range Mistral missiles. French made...

    The US has already urged Cyprus to transfer a significant arsenal of Russian weapons to Ukraine. And Nicosia has already expressed its willingness to do so if it can acquire equivalent systems to replace them.

    Although the Iron Dome is a short-range system, several batteries can protect the entire airspace of the island from various airborne threats. This, along with the sophisticated active phased array radar (AFAR), undoubtedly makes it an adequate replacement for the existing Cypriot Buk and Tor.

    The US could insist that Cyprus acquire the Iron Dome to completely replace rather than supplement its old Russian systems, and transfer those systems to Ukraine.
    Cyprus knows that the US could easily complicate or even jeopardize the acquisition of Iron Dome.

    However, if Nicosia agrees to voluntarily transfer its Russian missiles to Ukraine, then Washington could become more open to completely lifting the arms embargo and allowing Cyprus to buy American defense systems, possibly including short-range air defenses. The above-mentioned partial lifting of the embargo in 2020 was nothing more than a symbolic gesture, as it only allowed Nicosia to buy "non-lethal" military equipment, such as bulletproof vests.

    US political support for the Iron Dome sale could also dampen any major backlash or protest from Turkey, which is currently mending its relationship with Israel.

    Thus, Cyprus has a lot to gain by getting rid of its Russian missiles.
    " https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2022/08/23/how-us-can-leverage-israel-cyprus-iron-dome-sale-to-get-ukraine-more-arms/?sh=d5bfd07122cf
    1. +9
      7 September 2022 12: 12
      Hello! hi

      Quote: Wildcat

      Fortunately, this type of air defense system was not supplied to the Eastern European countries that were part of the Warsaw Pact, and therefore they are not in NATO.
      IMHO, Buki and Torah and C300 were sold to Greece / Cyprus (we will consider them one country feel), and NATO and Israelis regularly trained on them.

      In this case, I was talking about the Buk-M1 air defense system, they are not officially in NATO. For the rest you are right. Yes
  9. +7
    7 September 2022 14: 19
    hi
    I thought that this - about the Air Force and Air Defense - would be appropriate here.


    "....
    somewhere near the enemy
    I'm not up to whims now
    "Main" switch on
    we will turn off everyone who is below
    ...
    follow us with fire and thunder
    snarls the surface
    contingent and there is no miss
    increase our mortality
    ...
    both alive, not killed
    at least they hit me for sure
    and yells "Aunt Rita" to them
    to get out into the air immediately
    ...
    how I want to join the squadron
    even if the disability
    I don't fold my wings
    and change the sweep
    ...
    "
  10. +2
    7 September 2022 16: 32
    A considerable number of air defense forces multiplied by the size of the territory (and the number of targets needed to hit) and by the number of decoys, which I have no doubt had and there are many - bring out the result that is ..
    How realistic is it in this scenario to "knock out all air defense"? I think this is another problem, because Ukraine is not Iraq and not Yugoslavia in terms of the size of the territory. Yes, and with knocking out - it will be impossible to say unequivocally about sky control - there will be MANPADS and deliveries that we cannot or do not want to stop ..
  11. Des
    +4
    7 September 2022 19: 49
    Good article. Sample for others. No water".
  12. +2
    7 September 2022 23: 07
    As part of the Buk-M1 air defense system, the 9S18M1 Kupol-M1 detection and target designation station (range up to 160 km) on a solid-state element base was used.

    TWT and magnetron - solid-state element base?
    The main danger of the Osa-AKM complex lies in its ability to counteract hovering combat helicopters or those flying at low speed at extremely low altitude.

    And what is the reaction time of this air defense system for a helicopter?
    Unlike the Su-35S and Su-30SM multifunctional fighters and the Su-34 front-line bombers, the Su-25 attack aircraft and attack helicopters do not have electronic countermeasure stations for missiles with a radio command and radar guidance system.

    Why are there no stations for electronic countermeasures of missiles with a radio command and radar guidance system on the Su-25?
  13. 0
    9 September 2022 00: 27
    Author - It is possible that, as in Russia, preventive maintenance of old 9M37M and 9M333 anti-aircraft missiles was carried out in Ukraine.

    In Russia, abandoning Ukrainian components, missiles are being modernized. Cheap, but I can't say how justified it is in terms of efficiency.
  14. +2
    10 September 2022 01: 14
    And some fresh news about Ukrainian air defense:
    "As for the typical scenario for the actions of our attack aircraft, it is forced to be like this. A pair of Su-25s at low level passes to the LBS, raises their noses for a second, from a pitch-up in one salvo fires all S-5 or S-8 unguided missiles from launchers suspended under the wings, immediately shoots heat traps and leaves at the same low level. Just now near Bakhmut ... I watched it live. The effectiveness of such strikes against an enemy who knows how to hide and disperse is doubtful, as all the experience of spring-summer battles shows. Efficiency against a well-fortified enemy is none. But our attack aircraft and helicopter pilots cannot do anything else - the enemy has a normal, echeloned military air defense.https://kenigtiger.livejournal.com/
    1. -2
      11 September 2022 01: 42
      Quote: Wildcat
      A pair of Su-25s at low level passes to the LBS, raises their noses for a second, from a pitch-up in one salvo fires all S-5 or S-8 unguided missiles from launchers suspended under the wings, immediately shoots heat traps and leaves at the same low level. Just now near Bakhmut ... I watched it live. The effectiveness of such strikes against an enemy who knows how to hide and disperse is doubtful, as all the experience of spring-summer battles shows. There is no effectiveness against a well-fortified enemy ... [/ i]" https://kenigtiger.livejournal.com/

      The efficiency statement is equivalent to the statement that the Grad-type MLRS efficiency is zero. Doesn't this statement seem strange?
      1. +1
        11 September 2022 05: 32
        The efficiency statement is equivalent to the statement that the Grad-type MLRS efficiency is zero.
        No

        I do not want to get into a dispute about the effectiveness of unguided MLRS Grad projectiles.
        But I want to draw your attention to the fact that apparently there are reasons why some MLRS / NAR projectiles receive control systems (GPS, laser guidance, self-aiming elements).
        I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that the MLRS Grad, when firing, stands motionless in place, performing such wonderful things as "topographic fixing" and attempts to "eliminate swaying" with the springs turned off. Apparently there are reasons why the Grad MLRS does not rush along the roads during firing at a speed of 200 km or more. in hour.

        And if the Grad MLRS were rushing along the road at a speed of, say, 100 km per hour, do you think the statement would be true that "When launching at a distance of 20 km, half of the hits fit within a distance of 200-300 m relative to the center of the grouping of gaps. "?

        But in fact, such NAR shooting is better than nothing.
        And what should pilots do if there are no jade and other wonderful things, but there are C5 and C8?
        Let's turn from the opinion of the infantry to the opinion of the pilots ("many letters", the key - if the NARs were used differently, everything - pilots and helicopters - would have ended; well, about the deviation "at 50 m and ... close to zero" - "this is a miraculous miracle "(c) Malysheva):"Good morning FB!
        They periodically write about the inefficiency of firing from a roll-up. They say by, do not fall into the sky, and so on.
        In a number of cases, this was the case in the early days.
        All the same, this type of shooting was not practiced at training grounds during training flights and exercises. So, we looked at what it was, and forgot about it. A large amount of ammunition is needed, and even when four missiles are flying, it is very difficult to assess the hit. And there are no mavics at the landfills.
        We trained with half a block per attack, but 40 NAR per takeoff. That is, we can’t plan many sorties for training, we get out of the missile limit for a shift.
        And in the exercises, it’s generally not interesting for the bosses if missiles just fly in from nowhere, or vice versa if a helicopter attacks a target that is beyond the horizon for them.

        But in Ukraine, after three or four sorties, the pilots got their hands full, and now they cover the center of the dispersion ellipse with a calculation of plus or minus 50 meters.
        And after the on-board computers of helicopters were supplied with software for calculating pitch-up firing for all types of NAR, the deviation results are close to zero.
        Heavy rockets fly more accurately and are less affected by wind and other external conditions in flight. I have individuals who, in one attack, use the C-13 from a nose-up, then dive and shoot the C-8 from a new nose-up at an adjacent target. And after all, they fall according to the data of the drone. It is a pity that not all helicopters can use heavy NARs yet. But we are working on it.

        So ... September 2 S-13 out of 6 launched from the Mi-28, got into a building converted into a warehouse.
        The explosion turned out like an atomic one, and the gunners about what burned for another day later.
        A direct hit from seven (!!!) kilometers by an unguided rocket is, of course, an element of luck, but there will be no luck without skill.
        So with the cabling, we are doing very well. In vain they write about the low efficiency of this method. It is not inferior to use from a horizontal flight from two kilometers, because even from two kilometers you will not see a target like people in the trenches in the landing. And all the same, you will work stupidly along the coordinates, as well as from the cabling. Then what's the difference how to shoot if the results are comparable?
        Only taking into account the large number of MANPADS from the enemy, when firing from 2 km, we would have already run out of helicopters and crews by the time this comment was written.
        "
        Fighterbomber (c)
        1. -1
          11 September 2022 14: 42
          [quote=Wildcat]No

          I don’t want to get into a dispute about the effectiveness of unguided MLRS Grad shells ... / quote]

          It's clear. You don't read your own posts. Here is a quote from it:
          [quote = Wildcat] And after software for calculating pitch-up firing for all types of NAR was installed on the on-board computers of helicopters, the deviation results are close to zero. [/ quote]

          The launch of the NURS from the aircraft is performed not by the pilot, but by the SUV of this aircraft. The SUV takes into account both the aiming point coordinates and the current aircraft coordinates and their derivatives. The hit accuracy achieved is indicated in your quote. That's why:
          [quote = Wildcat] In vain they write about the low efficiency of this method. It is not inferior to use from a horizontal flight from two kilometers, because even from two kilometers you will not see a target like people in the trenches in the landing. And all the same, you will work stupidly along the coordinates, as well as from the cabling. Then what's the difference how to shoot if the results are comparable? [/ Quote]

          And here:
          [quote = Wildcat] But I want to draw your attention to the fact that apparently there are reasons why some MLRS / NAR shells receive control systems (GPS, laser guidance, self-aiming elements). [/ quote]
          the reasons are simple: it is necessary to hit point targets. This is not necessary to hit area targets.
          1. +1
            11 September 2022 15: 14
            You don't read my messages. And if you read, you don't understand.

            I provided two quotes.
            One for the infantry, one for the pilots.
            The infantry explains that they are unhappy with the actions of the air force.
            Aviation explains that it cannot work differently and the accuracy of work along the coordinates is "50 m from the aiming point to zero."

            If you still work hard and read the quotes in full, then you will see that the infantry itself does not know where the target is and where its coordinates are (we were talking about the position of 120 mm mortars). And aviation cannot search for a target.

            My personal position: "50 m from the aiming point to zero" with NARs from a pitch-up, this is impossible.

            The launch of the NURS from the aircraft is performed not by the pilot, but by the SUV of this aircraft. The SUV takes into account both the aiming point coordinates and the current aircraft coordinates and their derivatives. The hit accuracy achieved is indicated in your quote.


            1 About the "SUV of this aircraft" that launches, this is your personal opinion, not a fact. It is quite possible that we are talking about self-made versions of ProNebo, which pilots install on smartphones in the cockpits themselves, like navigators in cars.
            2 Quotes are not mine, I indicated the sources. I give my opinion separately.
            3 There is no such thing as an "area target" in practice. I suppose that you will begin to explain what an "areal target" is, but I kindly ask you to refrain.
            You are not able to distinguish quotes from the author's text, you present your opinion as a fact.
            When you learn to look for facts or draw conclusions, then we will talk. Clear?

            PS, I almost forgot: I put a minus in your message. Usually I somehow react more calmly, but either today is such a day, or your text stands out from the others for the worse.
            1. -1
              11 September 2022 16: 25
              Quote: Wildcat
              If you still work hard and read the quotes in full, then you will see that the infantry itself does not know where the target is and where its coordinates are (we were talking about the position of 120 mm mortars). And aviation cannot search for a target.

              If the infantry itself does not know where the target is, then there can be no talk of any use of high-precision weapons by aviation. Aviation is not looking for a target on its own, aviation works on target designation.

              Quote: Wildcat
              .
              The infantry explains that they are unhappy with the actions of the air force.

              So you yourself write "that the infantry itself does not know where the target is and where its coordinates are." What claims can be made to aviation here?

              Quote: Wildcat
              1 About the "SUV of this aircraft" that launches, this is your personal opinion, not a fact.

              This is exactly what the SUV does. It was developed before the SVO.

              Quote: Wildcat
              3 There is no such thing as an "area target" in practice. I suppose that you will begin to explain what an "areal target" is, but I kindly ask you to refrain.

              A unit dispersed in a forest plantation and camouflaged. An artillery battery detected by a counter-battery radar.
  15. +1
    13 September 2022 17: 31
    This is enough for Su 25 and helicopters to shoot Nursami above the horizon into milk ...
  16. -1
    15 September 2022 08: 44
    bad final conclusions from what they read - bomber, army and attack aircraft by the 21st century had lost a whole list of their classic purpose. After 40-50 years, or rather after the U-2, the validity of Khrushchev's total turn and part of the military leadership in favor of missiles is more obvious. Today, when the war is here, and not somewhere in Jalalabad, the mass of aviation problems is somehow more visible, and above all in terms of overcoming sustainable multi-layer air defense, even without advanced models. It is especially, subjectively, of course, a shame that the Air Force is practically devoid of, by means of air defense, "mass aimed work" at the forefront and, as a result, it should be impossible to use cheap but effective bomb weapons. Let's emphasize it en masse. However, under the missiles, a whole list of tasks for the fleet fell
  17. +1
    20 January 2023 03: 31
    hi
    The Ministry of Defense of Poland planned to operate the Osa-P air defense system until 2026, after which they were to be replaced by new Poprad-2 mobile air defense systems with laser-guided missiles. However, the upgraded Polish "Wasps" may soon be in Ukraine.

    On a friendly website, Lostamor posted a link to the "Military Informant" telegram, it seems that the OSA from Poland is already in the Armed Forces of Ukraine: https://t.me/milinfolive/95753
    1. +1
      20 January 2023 06: 00
      Greetings!
      Quote: Wildcat
      On a friendly website, Lostamor posted a link to the "Military Informant" telegram, it seems that the OSA from Poland is already in the Armed Forces of Ukraine: https://t.me/milinfolive/95753

      Yes thank you! I know.