Mysterious navigation screen on a Sturgeon-class submarine that shouldn't be there

We continue to look into history military equipment together with The WarZone and this time we will plunge into the underwater world. And none other than the editor-in-chief of the magazine, Tyler Rogoway, will help us in this. Here is what he discovered and wrote about it on December 1, 2019.

Photo

“When it comes to military equipment, especially from such a sensitive area as underwater, from time to time, pictures of something that you didn’t even suspect existed, literally pop up out of nowhere. Just yesterday (written December 1, 2019) Erick Moreno, founder of the popular Reddit page r/submarines, tweeted a photo showing what appears to be a CRT - a navigation system monitor mounted in the control room of a nuclear-powered submarine. Sturgeon USS Queenfish (SSN-561). The photograph is believed to have been taken during an ICEX mission in 1970.

Several sources were interviewed about the photo - retired submariners, but none of them knew about the existence of such a device.

The display looks remarkably similar to the navigation system of a Grumman A-6 Intruder attack aircraft from the same era. The display was connected to the computer of the Digital Integrated Attack Navigation Equipment (DIANE) sighting and navigation system, which at that time was ultra-modern and allowed the attack aircraft crew to attack targets at night and in bad weather, from extremely low altitude, using a radar that recognizes terrain bends.

DIANE and other sensors were tied to a screen called the Vertical Display Indicator, which was the pilot's primary instrument. The screen operated in the same manner as modern electronic flight control (EFI) systems with synthesized image systems, but in a much cruder manner. It could show the horizon, sky, terrain contours, flight altitude, angle of attack, vertical speed and heading. The system allowed for navigation and precision bombing, and the display looked like something out of science fiction. The resemblance to what we see on the Queenfish control console is very intriguing.

It is clear that such a system could look very attractive to submariners navigating without seeing the space around them. It is possible that the Navy took some of the technology from the A-6 and tied it to an integrated inertial navigation system (INS) with its depth, speed and other sensors.

Whatever the story behind this display, which looks more like a Star Wars X-Wing fighter panel than a 1960s submarine control panel, it must have been state-of-the-art technology in its class at the time. In fact, it was probably so far ahead of its time that it wasn't very effective, since we didn't see digital instruments on submarines for several decades.

Digital instruments only became standard with the advent of the Seawolf in the 1990s.

And today, the Virginia-class nuclear submarine's control panel looks more like an alien spacecraft.

These boats ditched the classic steering wheel and vertical instrument panel in favor of a pair of joysticks and an angled display panel that partially immersed the pilot in a kind of cocoon.

It is clear that the navigation display on the control panel of the USS Queenfish was ahead of its time. Eventually, the ability to process and display a lot of location data for sailors flying multi-billion dollar nuclear submarines will become a reality, but given that the photo in question was supposedly taken almost 50 years ago, it would be good to know more about how daring the system shown really was and where it came from in the first place.

If anything, the photo is yet another reminder that there are still many secrets to uncover in America's dark history of submarine warfare.

And the riddle was solved

And it was solved by our own analytical think tank, which periodically meets under the banner of The WarZone to discuss various issues. According to the collective opinion, the system was the following.

Testing of the USS Albacore, which itself was state of the art , showed that at high speed the boat reacts extremely sharply to rudder shifting, it is prone to sharp rolls, it is difficult to steer it along the course, and the usual composition of the control group of three people does not provide the required speed for executing commands. This prompted the Navy to rethink the principles of control, and in the 30s, Electric Boat developed a new control panel, called SUBIC (SUBmarine Integrated Control).

One of SUBIC's revolutionary innovations was the CONALOG (CONtact AnaLOG) digital steering assistant, which in turn was part of the Fast-Reaction Submarine Control (FRISCO) system. The system showed the helmsman on the CRT screen the course that he must maintain, in the form of an image of the "highway" under water. Depth data, information from sonars and radars were also displayed there.

The system was first installed on USS Shark (SSN-591) in 1961 and later on USS Thresher, Permit, Sturgeon-class SSN and Benjamin Franklin-class SSBN.

And now, attention, an unexpected result

“The submariners quickly hated him! One former submarine commander recalled that this device, as a rule, put the watchmen to sleep!”

It was so despised that it was specifically excluded from the design of the Los Angeles class SSN.

The operation of this system can be briefly seen in the 1968 spy-adventure film Ice Station Zebra, in which an American nuclear submarine rushes to a station drifting near the North Pole in an attempt to intercept a capsule with classified information dropped from a satellite. There are very truthful scenes filmed on a real submarine (and, as usual, completely wild episodes with Russian spies - I already added this after watching the trailer. Yeah)".

Here is such a story.

Comments

[South Ukrainian]

Well, the Americans, to their credit, are renowned masters of futuristic designs and technology. Well, as usual, in some ways they make a real breakthrough, and in some ways, despite the exorbitant cost, it is an absolutely useless thing.

[Subtext]

Riddle 100 years at lunchtime

[Center]

[ycuce234-san]

What is interesting - despite the past decades, the forecast of a radical reduction in the number of crews among the Americans did not come true, just as the problem of chronic lack of sleep and fatigue did not disappear.
Although the design of the device itself turned out to be very understandable - even an illiterate and non-English speaking Puerto Rican or Mexican sailor could manage the boat.

[Kim]

everything is simpler
the guy races on CGA, or on Hercules :)

[rtv]

CGA has the most eye-catching palette I've ever seen. Its inventor appears to have been colorblind.

[ycuce234-san]

It depends on advances in phosphors. In the 1950s, the achievements of luminochemistry of the 1940s were used, which can be found in old books like: Phosphors. Zhirov N.F. - 1940
In general, the USSR was very lucky with American monitors, at one time. The fact is that the emergence of mass means of displaying graphics makes the concept of "network wars" realistic and possible, and mobile computers sufficient for this, including even aviation ones, were already like networks - one of the first networks was proposed in 1949 for Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (implemented in the late 1950s).
Take the Americans in the 1940s and 50s instead of unrealistic "star wars" for "network wars", and pour money into it like in star wars - the Union could not stand this and grunt a few decades earlier.
And the Vietnam War could have been conducted much more high-tech. Here is such an alternative military history, unfulfilled ...

[Kim]

uh ... now you have driven me into a stupor :)
"star wars", EMNIP, this is Reagan. This is the early 80s.
And what do you mean by "network war"? I won’t argue about the graphic displays, but it stuck in my memory: when they wanted (for some purpose) to take the parameters of the car in real time, they loaded Stump 100th almost 4%. One a car.

[ycuce234-san]

Quote from kim

when they wanted (for some purpose) to record the parameters of the car in real time, they loaded Stump 100th almost 4%. One car.

A modern car has long had one or more computers that are made with about the same or even worse characteristics as stump 4.
It was meant that technologies back in the 50s could change places in history of modern network-centric wars and star wars - network conflicts could technically start immediately in the post-war period (there are already computer networks) and in parallel with the rocket race, and star wars in the understanding of the 80s were would be postponed until later. And in such a tougher version of the post-war world, the USSR would have been much more difficult to survive.

[Kim]

I can't argue, not my "profile"
the only thing - IMHO, for network centrics, computers were needed three orders of magnitude more powerful
they appeared - the network centric appeared
but on what to display it all is a much less important question
I repeat, purely IMHO

[rtv]

One of the main problems in network-centric warfare is stable and high-speed communications. Without communication, all "centricity" is covered with copper basins. And this problem has not been solved. There could not have been any network-centric wars in the last century, and it is not a fact that it will appear in this century.

[SincerityX]

The Pentium 4 has a clock speed of 2,4GHz. This means that this processor is capable of processing 2400000000 operations per second. In other words, this is more than enough to take the parameters of one car. However, if this fact took place (T-Sch Kim did not provide links to the source), then the processor was loaded not with data from the car, but with software. From which we can conclude that the failure was not due to an abundance of parameters, or insufficient processor performance, but due to unoptimized and buggy software, or the presence of redundant layers of software.

[Kim]

nothing was better in 86 :) And I saw Hercules in 92
Yes, and determine the adapter by b / w photo - I will not take it for sure :)
Z.Y. it's bil joke :))))))))))

[ycuce234-san]

If the "highway" put to sleep, then the watchmen had a persistent lack of sleep. So this problem also needed to be addressed.

[SincerityX]

Here! They just solved the wrong problem. And a reduction in staff would mean a reduction in losses, an increase in the period of an autonomous move, and many many more all sorts of "+". Because most of the space on almost any transport is occupied by the crew. Reducing the crew even by a third allows you to radically increase the free space, or reduce the size of the transport while maintaining the level of armor and armament.

[Carib]

Here, in a semi-dormant state, one SiaWolf was banged at full speed against a rock, in the South China Sea, it seems. Then they were "going to" give heroes to Petrov and Bashirov.

[kig]

There are a whole bunch of mistakes of the commander and the watch, and they started back in the base. It is very difficult to translate the report, a lot of things are blacked out and a lot of specific terms. Maybe somehow I can gather my strength.

[Kim]

OU
do you have a report?
it will be interesting to read

[tralflot1832]

Yes, get ready, we are waiting! I love about the sea.

[Dead duck]

USS Thresher

along the way, too, we drove into the oncoming lane when the driver fell asleep.

[Romario_Argo]

secret topic,
these screens are an underwater vision system - lidar
part of the MGK-540 complex, stands on our nuclear submarines Borey, Antey, Yasen, Shchuka-B
work up to a depth of 500 meters, the range over the layer is up to 5 km.
penguins collided with a rock because the density of water at different depths is different and there are long time jumps (light) due to undercurrents of different densities
ours use lidar to search for a hole in the ice cover for a safe ascent

[merkava-2bet]

lidar
part of the MGK-540 complex, stands on our nuclear submarines Borey, Antey, Yasen, Shchuka-B

There are no lidars on submarines / nuclear submarines, this is a new technology, it is still being tested, there is sonar or GAK (hydroacoustic complex), in which there is a mine or polynya search path.

[Romario_Argo]

Oh well...
so admirals tell tales

[merkava-2bet]

What admirals, maybe you just mixed up.
Lidar- this is a laser-optical device that uses photons and not sound, the technology is still being developed and there are experimental samples, but they have a short range and are very dependent on the transparency of the water.

[Romario_Argo]

everything is correct - laser scanning is used - in this mode, by processing - the bottom topography, floating or objects without movement of artificial origin are displayed
well, what happens?
portable devices work at depths up to 5 meters - in pools
and sound is used in SAZERS - this is the same ROFAR - underwater QUANTUM radar

[merkava-2bet]

You explain to me, I pointed out your inaccuracy and that's it !!!

[Romario_Argo]

everything is accurate. and has been at work for a long time.
you cannot find radiating equipment on nuclear submarines because of the light body?
receiving the reflected signal is located under the body

[merkava-2bet]

Roman, we believe in fairy tales, there is no need to invent what is not there, the Sazer technology is fundamental and theoretical, and also laboratory.
There is no sazer on the GAK MG-540, these are your fantasies, just like it is not in the light nuclear submarine hull, you don’t need to invent it.

MGK-540 Skat-3 is a hydroacoustic complex with a digital information processing system. It consists of a bow antenna, two onboard vertically developed antennas, as well as a flexible extended towed antenna. Earlier analogues: MGK-500 Skat, MGK-503 Skat-KS (analogue) and MGK-520 Skat-BDRM.

This complex is already ancient, since the 80s shaggy.

[Romario_Argo]

it was you yourself who said about the sound - and I remembered about the sazar,
MGK-600B Irtysh-Amphora uses their technology - if I may say so
and MGK-540 is a bit old - Yes. apparently you haven’t studied all the equipment yet - on the subject of lidars
but about the inter-hull space - this is also according to the lidar

[merkava-2bet]

September 10, 2022 HYDRO-ACOUSTIC COMPLEX "IRTYSH-AMPHORA" SONAR SYSTEM "IRTYSH-AMPHORA" R&D "Irtysh-Amphora" from the first year of design has acquired the character of a permanent program aimed at creating a sonar system for submarines of the 4th generation. Existing in parallel with the ROC "Skat-3", in 1980-1987. this R&D first “nourished” it with its own ideas, and then inherited the experience of developing Skat-3 and absorbed all the scientific groundwork created by the institute. In the difficult economic situation of the 1990s, the Morfizpribor Central Research Institute continued work on the creation of the Irtysh-Amphora SJSC for fourth-generation submarines.
Source: http://bastion-karpenko.ru/sonar-irtysh-amphora/ VTS "BASTION" AVKarpenko

So you are not in the know, and you are jumping onto a bloody heresy.

MGK-600B Irtysh-Amphora

He is just as old.
And this is for you to read, I strongly demand, just an easy acquaintance with the article on this forum.
Suther: Submarine Technology of the Future?, by Andrey Mitrofanov

[Romario_Argo]

why are you jumping - I don’t understand your impulses
about lidar is no longer interesting or what?

[merkava-2bet]

And what does lidar have to do with it? You made a mistake, I corrected you and explained a little, but you immediately jumped into the jungle Sazerov, I do not understand you.

[merkava-2bet]

lidar
part of the MGK-540 complex, stands on our nuclear submarines Borey, Antey, Yasen, Shchuka-B
work up to a depth of 500 meters, the range over the layer is up to 5 km.

After such words, your Physics teacher would first laugh for a long time and then beat you with the Talmud of Fundamental Quantum Physics and finish off with a control blow with Hydroacoustics, to be sure.

[merkava-2bet]

Digital instruments only became standard with the advent of the Seawolf in the 1990s.

It’s not true, even with the Los Angeles-type SSN-688, among the Losi people, there was end-to-end digitalization of the HAC and navigation systems, and there were three sub-series of these boats, and the most advanced Sub-series 3 “Improved Los Angeles”, and they have almost everything digital.

[Usher]

partially immersing the pilot in something like a cocoon.

author, what kind of cocoon in hell? Ordinary screens and a table with a joystick.

[rtv]

Quote: ycuce234-san

It depends on advances in phosphors. In the 1950s, the achievements of luminochemistry of the 1940s were used, which can be found in old books like: Phosphors. Zhirov N.F. - 1940
In general, the USSR was very lucky with American monitors, at one time. The fact is that the emergence of mass means of displaying graphics makes the concept of "network wars" realistic and possible, and mobile computers sufficient for this, including even aviation ones, were already like networks - one of the first networks was proposed in 1949 for Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (implemented in the late 1950s).
Take the Americans in the 1940s and 50s instead of unrealistic "star wars" for "network wars", and pour money into it like in star wars - the Union could not stand this and grunt a few decades earlier.
And the Vietnam War could have been conducted much more high-tech. Here is such an alternative military history, unfulfilled ...

What are you mixing together. What does phosphors have to do with it, if we are talking about a palette? For example, they had 4 colors in their palette - black, white, purple and green. Due to the limited choice of color combinations, they were eye-catching, from which the eyes got tired. And the phosphor has nothing to do with it, from the word at all.

And no need for luck with American monitors, the old song begins. The USSR had its own excellent monitors. We had a different problem - everyone wanted their own monitor, and instead of mass production of inexpensive and high-quality products, each design bureau sought to create its own monitor, processor, modem, etc. and put the consumer exclusively on their product. With all the consequences.

The concept of network wars is far from being defined by means of display, as you are trying to present. First of all, this is an organizational problem - a change in almost all combat regulations, or rather their strong change, and such things have been done for decades.

With the current level of development of technology and military art, the potential of network-centric warfare will not be realized soon.

[ycuce234-san]

In phosphors, the color of their radiation depends on their chemical composition. That’s why the early colors were especially eye-catching - displays were needed at any cost and they didn’t think about usability - just like during the war the Germans wrote street names on the walls of houses with the varieties of phosphors available to them at that time for the purpose of blackout and mixed them into the printing inks of air charts and installed them in the cockpits of navigators UV lamps for illumination.

[rtv]

Don't get me wrong, but you don't know what you're talking about. CGA adapters had 16 colors, regular, normal colors. But only 4 of them can be displayed at the same time. And the color sets (palettes) were fixed. In particular - black, white, magenta and green. At the same time, the monitor could display other colors - red, yellow, green, etc. and the phosphor has nothing to do with it at all. You probably want to talk about something else.

[Rustic]

Don't get me wrong, but you don't know what you're talking about. CGA adapters had 16 colors

Is it okay that the adapters you mentioned appeared in the early 80s, but are we talking about monitors from the 50s? Or for you, everything that was before the video cards - nothing happened.

[rtv]

Oh my god, you still don't understand what I'm talking about. I was talking about the eye-catching selection of colors in the palette. What is the years of production? Do you really not understand or are you just spreading demagogy? Let's try to explain to you on the fingers: CGA has a palette of 4 colors - black, white, magenta and green. This combination of colors is very hard on the eyes. So heavy that the expression is very suitable for it - a striking combination of colors. Why purple (not red) and green, you could take more matching colors. What does the years of production have to do with the unsuccessful selection of colors in the palette?