Chukavin sniper rifle: how to understand it?

A few days ago, colleagues from Arguments and Facts posted two articles from the “What is it” series on the Ugolyok and Chukavin sniper rifles.

Articles report that the SHF (Chukavin Sniper Rifle) has passed state tests, and "Ugolyok" has entered preliminary tests.

If you approach these two events in a detached way and do not delve into the details - news certainly positive, but if you look at the picture as a whole with an eye to what is happening in the world, purely biased emotions arise.

microwave

The rifle was first presented in 2017 at the Army military-technical forum. The "curtain" scheme actually consists of two receivers - upper and lower, with its pluses and minuses. Shop from SVD, freely posted fairly thick barrel and caliber 7,62x54 mm. In addition to the native caliber, modifications are also planned for calibers 7,62x51 NATO and .338 Lapua Magnum.

Well, the ability to put preobjectives, the ability to adjust the length of the butt and the height of the cheek, folding sights are definitely pluses. The rifle seems to have everything you need, and giving 1 MOA at 100 meters, should fill its niche perfectly. In addition, it is shorter and lighter than the SVD in service.

There are no questions to the designer and his offspring, I would gladly run with a microwave and shoot at a distance, as far as my skills are enough. However, there are questions for abstract people, and I will ask them in the air.

Let's take the basic version of SVD as a basis, and then apply a little mathematics to it. The barrel is weak, heats up and breaks quite easily, as it is produced by electrolysis. Out of the box, such an SVD gives at best 1,3 MOA, which in Russian means 3,77 cm at 100 meters. We will shoot, for example, at 800 meters. The spread is 30 cm, that is, this is enough to get into the chest of a person under ideal conditions.

Next, let's "tune" the SVD a little by installing a chassis from a commercial manufacturer. His products "hang out" the barrel, add the ability to install KeyMod rails, bipods, preobjectives and have two attachment points. It is not cheap, but it is lifting even within the budget of an individual citizen, and even within the framework of the state with its ability to scale, the cost is quite comparable to the horror that Techincom calls “OPR-4” and supplies to the troops.

In short, on a civilian gross cartridge, SVD in tuning from a three-letter manufacturer showed 1 MOA at 100 meters or 23 cm at 800 meters.

We move on. We take similar products from another commercial manufacturer, which is much cheaper and differs only in 3-point mounting and M-LOK straps. With the selected cartridge 7N1 (PS SN), SVD with such a body kit showed 0,8 MOA at 100 meters or 18,56 cm at 800 meters. The specialist won competitions with her for two years, Bely, hello to you and my respect.

Great, we got the opportunity to either shoot more accurately or further. However, physics is ruthless, and we stumble upon the fact that a bullet that has lost supersonic speed destabilizes and, at best, arrives like an “iron”. For the 7N1 cartridge, this is a distance of 900 meters.

Total. For a price of 2 to 5 minimum wages, we get a rifle that is limited by the capabilities of the cartridge. Can our country afford this? Definitely yes. Only the issue of trunks and stores will remain unresolved, there is no getting around it.

How much it costs to develop a microwave and pass the state acceptance, I do not know, but I assume that it is quite a lot. How much it costs to create a production line to start producing microwaves for the defense order, and how long it takes to replace old rifles with new ones - I also find it difficult to answer.

What I know for sure is that the distance from me to the front is two times less than to the capital. Some 3 hours by car and you are at the epicenter of events. Maybe there will be someone who has heard about the microwave and that they want to take it somewhere, but there will not be anyone there who would not see an SVD or a Mosin rifle next to them.

Why is it impossible, in parallel with the development of a new one, to make better what is at war now? How many years should it take to accept the “modernized” 7N1 cartridge, flying beyond 1000 meters, since this even allows SVD “in body kit”? How long will fighters buy tuning and equipment with their own money, so that, for example, they don’t “squint their eyes” trying to fasten the fastex of domestic unloading, located on the lower back from the back?

Gauges and body kit

If everything is clear with the choice of 7,62x54R, then questions arise for the rest. Well, let's say 7,62x51 mm was added simply because they can. Although the cartridges of our production in this caliber leave much to be desired, and there seem to be no military options at all - so be it.

But on the .338 Lapua Magnum, I want to not only draw attention, but to play pranks. But what about the development of an analogue announced in 2019 by the respected and honored TsNIITochmash? Can we produce a full-cycle cartridge in this caliber from our own components or will we have to buy from someone?

And the most important question, which is very relevant since February of this year. If there is already an understanding of the need for .338, then when will there be an understanding of the need for .408 CT as well? How many years do you need to lay down to see it or a developed analogue in the lists of possible calibers?

Among other things, an important detail is the "muffler". Years of wars over DTCP have been shattered by practice. "Bank" is now a welcome body kit, even on a machine gun, and this issue is again decided primarily by enterprising businessmen. It is difficult to say how many “cans” have been developed for SVD, but the most important of them are with gas distribution. Will there be such a thing on new rifles "in stock" or will the fighters again buy it at the "aftermarket"?

Photo taken from telegram channel "At gunpoint"

Conclusions

It seems that a certain category of people in our country is a little less than completely cut off from reality, but they make decisions. The most disgusting thing is that it is not they who suffer from this, which would be fair, but those who are forced to accept the consequences of these decisions. Often, the end consumer does not even have a choice, but is forced to look for alternatives for his money or pays with his health. This applies not only to shooting weapons. It is enough to compare the equipment that contract soldiers of the RF Armed Forces are forced to use and that employees of, for example, a musical PMC choose.

It’s a fact that while convenient and loyal “managers” are engaged in hurray propaganda and try to throw dust in their eyes, covering up their uselessness, small and medium-sized businesses are doing business, covering the urgent needs not only for weapons, but also for shoes, non-drug medicine, equipment and body kit.

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

The barrel is weak, heats up and breaks quite easily, as it is produced by electrolysis.

I will correct the author, the barrel is reamed, then polished, and only then rifling is formed by electroerosion, and not by electrolysis. Well, they are chrome-plated, probably by an electrochemical method.
And 6000 shots for a rifle from the middle of the last century is quite a decent result.

[Dimax-nemo]

Um. I read something about dorn.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Dimax-Nemo

Um. I read something about dorn.

And I'm talking about forging. But specifically about SVD they write exactly this ...

[Dimax-nemo]

In any case, it is unlikely that one EE trunk is drilled. You can do this for three days.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Dimax-Nemo

In any case, it is unlikely that one EE trunk is drilled. You can do this for three days.

Well, that's what I'm talking about.

Quote: Vladimir_2U

the barrel is reamed, then polished

[Deck]

High-precision barrels are drilled from a blank, the rifling is planed, the chamber and the bullet entry are bored with a special reamer and then polished. And shaft barrels are made by electrochemical method and chromium plating, which have nothing to do with a modern sniper rifle

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Deck

which have nothing to do with a modern sniper rifle

Well, SVD has nothing to do with a modern sniper rifle. Open your eyes!

Quote: Vladimir_2U

But specifically about SVD they write exactly this ...

[Dimax-nemo]

This is, to put it mildly, hemorrhoids. Drilling to this depth.

[Living7111972]

So the barrel is not a machine gun, I didn’t see that they fired from the SVD in batches ...

[28st region]

Incomprehensible article. About what? Some reasoning and the same is not clear about what. The conclusions are a masterpiece. How bad everything is. But the article seems to be about a rifle, about a Chukavin sniper rifle. It seems that the author himself did not understand what he wrote.

[Amateur]

Incomprehensible article. About what?

An article stating that "all-pros-polymers", but at the same time they have not yet consulted with the author.
ps Interestingly, is the word "graphomaniac" a ban-forming word in VO?

[Maverick1812]

Yes, I switched a bit. Apparently, the fact that the belligerent army is forced to buy nishtyaks on its own outweighed the idea of ​​​​a rifle, which, perhaps, should have appeared in the troops.

[parma]

Quote: 28st region

Incomprehensible article. About what? Some reasoning and the same is not clear about what. The conclusions are a masterpiece. How bad everything is. But the article seems to be about a rifle, about a Chukavin sniper rifle. It seems that the author himself did not understand what he wrote.

The article is, of course, crumpled, I agree ... but as I see it, the main message is that a sniper rifle for an infantry squad sniper (a Marksman, as they say in the West) already exists, and instead of an expensive development of a new replacement, you can upgrade what you have on a budget - that's what they do in the west. M14 and G3, for example, still serve in this vein, because non-SOF units need small arms first of all as a means of protection against the same two-legged ones on the other hand (artillery to tell which unit the infantryman is from and what kind of weapon he has). With the AK-12, they were guided by this principle, or more importantly with the T-72b3 ... instead of not the cheapest replacement of the SVD with something new, it would be better to equip the SVD with modern tuning and a thermal imager, there would be more sense, and the price tag is lower (as I wrote above - in the west they did exactly that with the M39, Mk14 and G3SG1) ...

[Konnick]

it would be better to equip the SVD with modern tuning and a thermal imager

Late. Saturation of UAVs with thermal imagers makes it impossible for a sniper to work at night. It will be too noticeable. If only from a dugout or a pillbox. Of course, the thermal imager can be used during the day, but not as a sight, but to search for a target.

[parma]

Quote: Konnick

it would be better to equip the SVD with modern tuning and a thermal imager

Late. Saturation of UAVs with thermal imagers makes it impossible for a sniper to work at night. It will be too noticeable. If only from a dugout or a pillbox. Of course, the thermal imager can be used during the day, but not as a sight, but to search for a target.

You apparently poorly follow what is happening at the front - commercial copters are taken away by both sides only on the way, moreover, after that the launch coordinates are easily determined, after which a return greeting flies. + a drone cannot strike itself + it cannot be always and everywhere ... in general, it is better to have a thermal imager on a gun than not to have one ... and modern thermal imagers can be used as a sight at any time of the day or night all year round ...

[Vincent price]

Of course, it is better to have heat than not to have, but the story of the withdrawn commercial UAVs is purely local. When third world countries are at war, this is possible, but developed countries have specialized UAVs that you can take away the hell (USA, Turkey, Israel, Iran)

[parma]

Quote from Vincent Price

Of course, it is better to have heat than not to have, but the story of the withdrawn commercial UAVs is purely local. When third world countries are at war, this is possible, but developed countries have specialized UAVs that you can take away the hell (USA, Turkey, Israel, Iran)

Ukraine has Turkish UAVs, so what? Even the Americans in Afghanistan have enough of their UAVs to completely control the country, and they have some of the best (if not the best) and numerous families of drones ...

[Obliterator]

Quote: parma

a drone cannot strike on its own

It may well have a couple of VOGs or a grenade fixed under the belly.

[ZuekRek]

In order to hide from a thermal imager, it is not necessary to make a dugout or a pillbox. On campaigns, they indulged in "hide and seek" at night, when the driver was looking for a thermal imager. Polyethylene also closes well - the main thing is not to come into contact with the insulating material. And "over the hill" in general, almost on a regular basis, special devices are already being made to form inconspicuous shelters hidden from thermal imagers.

[Hog]

and instead of the expensive development of a new replacement, you can upgrade what you have on a budget

And how is it, in your opinion, someone just goes to the store and buys all this on a budget? Did you forget about MO? Or do you think there will be no R&D for modernization? And the last thing, and what to do in 10-20 years, modernization is not endless.

[parma]

Quote: Hog

and instead of the expensive development of a new replacement, you can upgrade what you have on a budget

And how is it, in your opinion, someone just goes to the store and buys all this on a budget? Did you forget about MO? Or do you think there will be no R&D for modernization? And the last thing, and what to do in 10-20 years, modernization is not endless.

Well, for starters, we can recall that since 2018 (if memory serves) it has been adopted by the SVDM, in which all the things proposed by the author are taken into account, respectively, you can buy them, and those available for storage. You can also recall the AK-74M3 modernization program, when commercial developments were used to modernize army weapons (it’s a pity this modification almost died in the public space, after the start of the epic with the AK-12 “with a shutter delay like the M-16”) ... at the end in the end, you can simply allocate money to the fighters (as is done, for example, in the west) and they will decide for themselves what kind of tuning to carry out (if you are so worried that the bureaucracy of the Moscow Region will not keep up with updates on the civilian market)

[frog]

allocate money to the fighters

What, is this a joke? When did it appear? And then I, like, missed something .... Special forces already exist that way (otherwise - no way), but mahr .... money ..... Tea, not the first of April ....

[parma]

Quote: frog

allocate money to the fighters

What, is this a joke? When did it appear? And then I, like, missed something .... Special forces already exist that way (otherwise - no way), but mahr .... money ..... Tea, not the first of April ....

We are talking about the ideal and what you need to strive for, and not as it is in fact ... you can not have money directly, but a certificate valid from certain manufacturers ... in many Western armies this is done - in France, any fighter, if he wants, can buy a pistol at public expense, if he considers it necessary

[frog]

Ahhh .... they would have said that the angleless pony is being discussed on the world air .... Otherwise, I was already scared .....
Remember France? Why not Israel? Or are there Yankees??))
Certificate? Are you sure you're not mocking me, sick? The only certificate we have for shirnarmass is a voucher. Two GAZ-24 for one piece of paper))
In life, even various ... products that have arrived in the unit .... are dismantled by RAV and the vegetable still knows who. Now, CHSH....
And you're going to give the opportunity to steer it??? and how is it - they choose themselves ?????? Loose and non-vertical. And more often than not, there is nothing to choose from. "Flat chicken, chicken on the rib and chicken on the side" (c)

[Incvizitor]

Can the same AK 12 be equipped with suitable sights, longer bipod barrels and used as rifles in an infantry squad?

[Konnick]

Can the same AK 12 be equipped with suitable sights, longer bipod barrels and used as rifles in an infantry squad?

It has already been done. The RPK-16 machine gun can perform the function of a sniper rifle, the accuracy of up to 500 meters is better than that of the SVD, and with a 5.45x39 cartridge. When you need a machine gun, you need an accurate shot, then a sniper.

[Incvizitor]

Here it is under a rifle from below, using a 308 bipod, a sight and you're done ...

[Konnick]

The RPK has a much thicker barrel, so the accuracy is higher than that of the 308.

[Bobik012]

it would be better to equip the SVD with modern tuning and a thermal imager

I will add, it would be useful to add a gas turbine engine, titanium armor, a radar station and a pretty young lady to relax after a shot ...

[parma]

Quote: Bobik012

it would be better to equip the SVD with modern tuning and a thermal imager

I will add, it would be useful to add a gas turbine engine, titanium armor, a radar station and a pretty young lady to relax after a shot ...

And you are a joker, however.

In the photo of the SVD of our paratroopers from the time of the operation at one well-known airfield ... pay attention - everyone has this or that tuning - who has optics that are not standard on the dovetail, who has a bank, who has the forearm replaced. Since all this was bought for their hard-earned money (and besides tuning “tools”, buying more comfortable armor or helmets, the fighters still have their own families) - the “stuffing” is far from complete ... since the fighters can buy the necessary things from their own pocket, then for the state it won't be a problem at all.

[Bobik012]

And everyone sculpts his own, being skeptical about the neighbor's upgrade. And how to please everyone here? Surely there will be dissatisfied, type. than screwing this thing, it would be better if the barrel was lengthened or the self-loading was removed, more the bolt is preferable, but not much else. The weapon is made for the average fighter based on considerations of expediency, convenience, reliability and economic efficiency as well. SVD in full-time performance with the requirement of a squad sniper (a Marksman, if you, an advanced one, are more familiar with it) fully complies and, in general, surpasses analogues. And for a qualified sniper, there are other devices (although here SVD is not the worst option).

[haron]

Quote: Bobik012

And for a qualified sniper, there are other devices (although here SVD is not the worst option).

In fact, no. And according to this

Quote: Bobik012

And everyone sculpts his own, skeptical about the neighbor's upgrade

For it’s not for me to tell you that starting from height / weight, musculoskeletal geometry, innate and acquired skills .... after all, everyone has different tasks. Accordingly, looking skeptically at a neighbor is as true as learning. Finance is an important but solvable issue.
One caveat remains - in reality, the maximum distance for SVD is 800-900 meters with a supply rather above average (80% up to 500-600m. Selected from the mass). How the costs of training a warrior and upgrading the Marksmangan will be comparable to the risk of losing the entire "kit" entirely and quickly at such distances under existing conditions.
How many of these "sets" do you have?
I'm not your one-to-one friend. Too bad talent.

[Bobik012]

in real combat and 500 meters is quite far, you can believe it. At 700 meters, the SVD shoots confidently. Those who lie about the fact that they destroyed 100500 enemies for one and a half kilometers categorically do not believe. Already at 1000 meters, the shooter's error, even with good optics, exceeds the weapon's error. Yes, and the error of a weapon, even in a large caliber and with high-quality ammunition, becomes very significant. In my opinion, shooting at a distance of more than 1000 m depends only on the theory of probability. And the probability of hitting is comparable to the probability of meeting a polar bear in Moscow

[haron]

Quote: Bobik012

in real combat and 500 meters is quite far, you can believe it.

Not only do I believe, but I completely agree.

Quote: Bobik012

Already at 1000 meters, the shooter's error, even with good optics, exceeds the weapon's error.

At such a distance of 7,62x54, optics is only one of the tools where you need to introduce up to a dozen average corrections (where with screws, where "by eye", where in dynamics) - where do we want to put it? And in the field it is a lot, half of which cannot be calculated.

Quote: Bobik012

In my opinion, shooting at a distance of more than 1000 m depends only on the theory of probability.

Here I disagree. Just to reduce the influence of uncalculated components, platforms were created in 338, variants of 50 bmg and others like them. Plus talent, training and experience, plus gadgets for speed and ease of obtaining variables. Reconnaissance .... Well, sights ... paddle without them. As a result, you can put on a kilo ... you can do it the first time))

[Bobik012]

you can put on a kilo ... you can do it the first time

Just don't argue with anyone about it. A very dubious result. At the training ground in calm, cloudy weather on a fixed plywood floor - maybe. In combat conditions, do not even try. Though 338, though any other. The caliber increases the chances, but further than a kilometer is already insignificant. The angle turns out to be very small, atmospheric temperature distortions, wind, glare, terrain folds ... The bullet flies for almost two seconds, the target shifts. And a whole bunch more. A human figure in non-contrasting clothes cannot be seen for a kilometer with the naked eye. Mortar is preferable.

[haron]

At the training ground in calm, cloudy weather on a fixed plywood floor - it can be.
To a pre-shot place. Before the target got there. A trick as old as mammoth dandruff. They also used civilians in the first Crimean and American. And 45-70, under good conditions, lay down in a fighter for a kilometer ss 1/5 (optics was already there). And if we take a targeted place, a known time and weather, at 50 bmg, + a mono metal point and finished bullet. With hands, instruments and a head assembled cartridge ... a warm banished barrel, then you can count on a minimum of 90% result.
There is no point in arguing. Everyone has their own experience.

[Bobik012]

Spherical horse in vacuum. I don't even want to discuss

[haron]

Spherical horse in vacuum. even discuss I do not want
Naturally. You've talked about this before.
The fact that he wrote it as ... providing assistance with shell shock by means of the 19th century.
To discuss here modern techniques, methods, equipment for the work of sniper groups is the height of stupidity.
So ... the historical alphabet of chatter aphids.

[Barberry25]

the author just wanted to throw out emotions and that "but I would do it like that"

[Shelest2000]

Yes, the conclusions are normal - before taking something into service, it would not hurt to modernize the existing one with an increase in quality, especially since there are relatively inexpensive options.

[Konnick]

However, physics is ruthless, and we stumble upon the fact that a bullet that has lost supersonic speed destabilizes and, at best, arrives like an “iron”. For the 7N1 cartridge, this is a distance of 900 meters.

The distance of 900 meters is for the initial version of the microwave with a barrel length of 410 mm, the military customer demanded a barrel length of 530 mm. In terms of performance characteristics and weight, it is comparable to the SVT-40. Microwave with 530 barrel weighs 4,5 kg, SVT-40 weighs 4,1 kg with 625 mm barrel. What is the improvement? In bipods and a flame arrester? And, in the Picatinny rail ... this is the answer why it is being delayed. The Chukavin rifle was designed taking into account export with a 338 cartridge and a 580 mm barrel, they wanted to make money, but for an ancient cartridge with a rim, it will do. By the way, a monument to Tokarev will be ready soon

[Metlik]

Only the swastika is clearly visible in your photo

[Konnick]

Claims are not to me, but to the sculpture of V. Ivanov.

[your1970]

Quote: Metlik

Only the swastika is clearly visible in your photo

Where???? I'm intrigued - I don't see it!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: your1970

Where???? I'm intrigued - I don't see it!

The lower left corner is the rack support.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexey RA

Quote: your1970

Where???? I'm intrigued - I don't see it!

The lower left corner is the rack support.

numb...

[Bobik012]

swastika the other way

[t7310]

Quote: Bobik012

swastika the other way

And if you turn it into that

[frog]

Apparently, but not the one)))

[igorka357]

What you saw has absolutely nothing to do with the swastika .. You would ask how the swastika looks like, what it means, then you wrote. Or just to blurt out?

[Metlik]

Quote: igorka357

What you saw has absolutely nothing to do with the swastika .. You would ask how the swastika looks like, what it means, then you wrote. Or just to blurt out?

Put this stand on its side and get a real Finnish swastika, whatever it means.

[yuriy55]

It seems that a certain category of people in our country is cut off from reality a little less than completely, but they make decisions.

It seems that in our country decisions on many important issues are made by people who are completely and completely cut off from reality.

[Kim]

the option that the decision maker has a slightly higher outlook and a slightly wider amount of data than the couch soldiers does not come to mind?

[yuriy55]

Quote from kim

the option that the decision maker has a slightly higher outlook and a slightly wider amount of data than the couch soldiers does not come to mind?

Not trying to engage in polemics with you, I want to note that a deliberate distortion of words from the Russian language cannot speak of anything but vulgarity.
Rich life experience in the field of military affairs allows me to conclude that the eternal correction of shortcomings can only speak of the developer's poor professionalism and unsatisfactory knowledge of the nuances of the task assigned. True, there is an objective reality - the emergence of materials with new properties or new technologies.
*****
Invented by you or inserted horseradish knows where the abbreviations come from, try to explain in advance. Divination is not my forte.

[Kim]

in my social circle, the decision maker is clearly defined :)
and if you bothered a little to understand the meaning own commentary, you could have figured it out without even knowing :)
in the context of the recent funeral, this deliberateness has its own explanation :)
so I say goodbye

[bk0010]

Quote from kim

the option that the decision maker has a slightly higher outlook and a slightly wider amount of data than the couch soldiers does not come to mind?

Even if it suddenly comes, then one glance at what the special operation is being conducted with (BMP-1, Acacia, etc.) will remove all questions about the horizons of your decision makers. And the data, when they make decisions, seems to be completely ignored regardless of their breadth. So there is a suspicion that if the failed decision makers were sent to places not so remote, and "sofa warriors" were put in their place, then the benefit for the country would be great.

[your1970]

Quote: bk0010

Even if it suddenly comes, then one glance at what the special operation is being conducted with (BMP-1, Acacia, etc.) will remove all questions about the horizons of your decision makers. And the data, when they make decisions, seems to be completely ignored regardless of their breadth.

take a calculator and figure out how much it costs to give 100 rounds of 5,45 cartridges (at the price of the Barnaul plant of 20 rubles) to the fighters of the leading NWO grouping and suddenly the amount of 300 million rubles in DAY.
This is so, a small penny consumable, and it is most likely cheaper for the state, but the cost of expenses quite illustrates for itself ... and there is still a lot of things spent ...

[bk0010]

Quote: your1970

This is so, a small penny consumable, and it is most likely cheaper for the state, but the cost of expenses quite illustrates for itself ... and there is still a lot of things spent ...

So what? War has always been a costly business. And I know the price of cartridges, sometimes I buy it myself, 20 rubles is still inexpensive, by the way. I don’t follow 5.45, but 7.62x54 is much more expensive. What does all this have to do with the quality of decisions made? Is new technology expensive? So a profukana abyss of money, by the way, precisely because of these very decision makers. Okay, let the technique be not entirely new, but the same BMP-3 is noticeably stronger than the BMP-1. In addition, it was made back in the USSR, all this time it could have been produced and refined.

[your1970]

Quote: bk0010

all this time it would be possible to produce and refine.

Any dorobotka requires money, and around they whine "Ancient Kalashnikov, old BMP1 ... what for to refine them ?? They want dough otherwise .. We need to introduce the latest weapons !!!" ...
The fact that it costs more and is not at all the fact that it is more effective ...
And we need to find a balance between relatively cheap and relatively effective. And this is extremely difficult.
And nearby they are still honking "We need to build aircraft carriers !!"
And the budget is not a rubber American inflatable

[Kim]

the other day there was an article, I quote inaccurately: after Syria 2018, a copy of the weapon (EMNIP, helicopter, although I could be wrong) was finalized based on the results of the application and went into series
4 years
CBO is only six months old, so it's too early to say "according to the results"
------------------------
if you mean that "where are the Russian UAVs ?!" - Well, what to answer you ...
approximately in the same place as Russian processors of iPhone level
"I had to buy equipment / make my own!" - they don’t sell and didn’t sell, they didn’t even sell Opel to Sberbank
do it yourself - yes, it is necessary
who will be ? Pereslegin recently mentioned in a discussion of the terrorist attack against Dasha that in 99 in Moscow (and not only) for purely domestic reasons died about 60 designers and heads of directions
a number of areas for this reason closed forever
By the way, remember the plane crash with the leadership of Gidropress? the guilty are just switchmen...
-------------------
so what they did first of all was the nuclear triad and air defense
and did
which turns a serious war with us into a game with a clear result

[fiberboard]

This is for sure, everywhere ,, effective managers ,,. Surkov and Khisnullin alone are worth something. One intrigued and combined to the NWO, the other drags hordes of migrants to Russia, replacing the Russian population with them. To them we can add Kosachev, a great friend of migrants.

[Evgeny_Sviridenko]

Well, I love accuracy in definitions, so I'll try to clarify. Sniper rifle? Or is it still a Marksman (infantry sniper rifle)? I think that it is typically Marxman, and therefore I would like to see this also in the title of the article. Also, the requirements for Marksman (infantry sniper) are completely different than high-precision non-automatic sniper rifles with a longitudinally sliding rotary bolt, chambered for increased power. For example, I would like to know how the above described rifle behaves in the field, what is the reliability.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Evgeny_Sviridenko

to Marksman (infantry sniper)

Wow, infantry sniper, or line sniper, otherwise Marksman, Marksman!
As Ilf and Petrov wrote: iceberg, weisberg - we know!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Wow, infantry sniper, or line sniper, otherwise Marksman, Marksman!

Well, yes, after all, a sniper is an original Russian word.
In fact, from the point of view of terminology and business correspondence for a line sniper, it is better to introduce a new separate term. Otherwise, they like to abbreviate here - and in documents from the phrase "linear sniper" the first word may well disappear, turning it with a flick of the pen from an infantry shooter with self-loading to a specialist with a bolt.
At the same time, the new term will allow to put things in order in the minds of the army, clearly dividing man with an oar and a sniper.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Alexey RA

Well, yes, after all, a sniper is an original Russian word.

Well, it got accustomed well, euphonious - about like a pilot. Not like the "Marksman" - either sneezed, or coughed.

Quote: Alexey RA

turning him with a flick of the pen from an infantry shooter with self-loading into a specialist with a bolt.

"These? These can!"

[IVZ]

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation do not have a definition of a Marksman rifle, and therefore the requirements for it have not been developed either. It's about precision definitions. There are no special requirements for

high-precision non-automatic sniper rifles with a longitudinally sliding rotary bolt, chambered for increased power cartridges.

[AML]

Yes, leave you svd alone. This is a mass rifle and at the 500m assigned to it, it copes with its task. Bipod, body kit, reinforced barrel - what is it all for her?

Is it possible to put a turbine, an acidifier, etc. on a road roller to accelerate it to 30 km / h.
How long will each ice rink driver do this for his own money?

[Alexfly]

let me disagree, a heavier barrel for SVD and accuracy would immediately improve, of course, not to the results of bolting, but nevertheless .. up to 700-800 meters, quite acceptable results .. That's what is more important to do is a cartridge .. We need our own , but they are not there .... a landmark for the USA, though everything is okay with that there ..

[Ivan Mak_2]

9x69 is a worthy alternative

[Barberry25]

the author simply did not hear about the SVDM, so he came up with the same thing, but for the usual SVD, and in fact such a body kit will cost half the rifle itself, taking into account the fact that such a rifle, logically, will have to serve the strength for several years and then must be replaced A microwave under the Lapua Magnum or a similar type of cartridge makes the very attempt to introduce it useless ... in fact, the SVD is now a squad fire support rifle, everything above should already have a Lapua Magnum caliber and the corresponding optics and training

[Alexfly]

lapuamagnum has completely different tasks than the gross 54R...

[Barberry25]

so the tasks for snipers have changed - since the Second World War, a sniper in the Red Army is a shooter firing at 400 meters, and now the working distance is already 1 km, so there is no point in preserving the SVD as the basic weapon of a sniper, its place is like a marksman’s rifle in the department, no more, and even then, taking into account the current situation, it is better to switch to self-loading under a single new LapuaMagnum and bolts for high-precision long-range shooting than to create a 2-caliber

[Alexfly]

You are not quite right, when carrying out operations, barriers, ambushes, where there is a need to shoot at greater distances than 700m, we can talk about special weapons, somehow chambered for lapua and Co. For urban conditions, it all depends on the situations .. What is the point of creating a microwave if the SVD meets the same requirements. For me, this is nothing more than a cut ...

[Barberry25]

The microwave is created as a family for various calibers, but the SVD is already outdated - I already wrote - we need to switch to a new caliber

[Alexfly]

Here you yourself answered everything ..... We don’t have new cartridges, calibers and are unlikely to have .... In the USA, for example, everything comes from a private trader, they create new cartridges for hunting and sports, then the military becomes interested in this department or some other federal .. In the Russian Federation this is NOT POSSIBLE, by definition ... because. a hunter or shooter uses derivatives of the military department or its surrogates .... And lawmaking is to blame for this - insane people dictate to the sane to establish tough laws ... On the same HAMMER one could create noticeable things, but went down to damage to military trunks .. Business in Menagher style...

[Barberry25]

there is a cartridge, like a rifle, it’s just that the Moscow Region happily plays games and dreams of new destroyers instead of the normal equipment of the army, what can I say, they can’t even make a modern first-aid kit

[Konnick]

Among other things, an important detail is the "muffler". Years of wars over DTCP have been shattered by practice. "Bank" is now a welcome body kit, even on a machine gun

Desirable since the flash and the sound of a shot from a microwave is stronger than a single shot from a PC. The 410 mm barrel does not allow using the full power of the cartridge, a significant part of the gases goes to a very bright and loud "puff".

[IVZ]

"Bank" is now a welcome body kit, even on a machine gun

In special units, when performing certain tasks, yes. And in line units, this is weight, dimensions, problems with intensive shooting and ... the price with absolute uselessness in combined arms combat.

[Konnick]

In special units, when performing certain tasks, yes. And in line units, this is weight, dimensions, problems with intensive shooting and ... the price with absolute uselessness in combined arms combat.

Wagnerians prefer Vintorez. If there is a PC in the department, queues from it can be immediately identified by flashes and sound. In the presence of microwave without DKTP, this is simply the very unmasking of the position of the sniper of the squad. Therefore, it is necessary to have weapons in the unit with the same external characteristics of the shot so that the enemy cannot determine priority targets like a machine gunner or a sniper. Therefore, I stand up for an infantry sniper and a machine gun with an automatic cartridge. Not one shot per hour from a bolter, but intense fire at the right time from an infantry sniper weapon, the RPK-16 suits all these characteristics. Whoever puts minuses against RPK-16, at least justify them.

[Ivan Mak_2]

100% agree: If we are talking about long distances, then the RPK-16 with a long barrel is sufficient to conduct disturbing fire. At closer ones in single shot mode, it can become an analogue of the SVD.

[Alexfly]

You are right, the PKK is a very good, unfortunately forgotten option. Apparently something was missing from Kalashnikov to set the slide delay, for better cooling of the barrel .. He wouldn’t have had a price ....

[Barberry25]

everything rests on the "tasks of line units", which are now engaged in storming and combing, and here the situation when the enemy cannot detect you from 50 meters is a very good bonus

[IVZ]

When solving special problems, a unit or team ceases to be "linear" and becomes "... special purpose".

[musketon64]

Quote: Konnick

Desirable since the flash and the sound of a shot from a microwave is stronger than a single shot from a PC. The 410 mm barrel does not allow using the full power of the cartridge, a significant part of the gases goes to a very bright and loud "puff".

And where did they put the IED? It is shorter because of the bullpup scheme and bipod, as well as a three-chamber muzzle device.

The muzzle device of the SVU rifle was complex and played the role of both a muzzle brake, which could absorb up to 40% of the recoil energy, and a weight compensator, which reduced barrel vibrations and shifted the center of gravity of the sniper rifle forward, and a flash hider. In addition, due to the cooling and expansion of gases inside the chambers, this device also helped to reduce the sound of a shot to an acceptable 150 dB.

[IVZ]

Do not confuse the development of a basic sample and its tuning, which has nothing to do with the design of the weapon itself. Another thing is that the design of modern weapons should be adapted to the use of the most useful and common gadgets (it’s quite good if they have also been tested and received official approval for use), if the design of the weapon does not provide this, gadgets have to be developed individually, worsening the possibilities for their development, reducing the range, increasing the cost and worsening the modernization and export potential of weapons. Tuning should be selected both centrally (sights, grenade launchers, etc.) and individually at various levels (type of service, unit, shooter), the issue of financing purchases is another matter, but this is not a design issue.

[Konnick]

It seems that a certain category of people in our country is cut off from reality a little less than completely, but they make decisions.

Does the author think that the decision is made by one person?
For example, I hope that they will pay more attention to the RPK-16, equipped with an optical sight of variable magnification 1X and 4X, an initiative development
designers, which with a conventional cartridge 5,45x39, not a sniper 7N1 7,62x54, has better accuracy of a single shot up to 500 meters than SVD. And the weight is the same. This can be said to be a universal infantry weapon with a unified cartridge, it can be used as a machine gun, machine gun and sniper rifle. Light machine gun with a set of barrels 410 mm and 550 mm long. The stealth of a shot is much easier to ensure compared to microwaves with DTKP (muzzle brake compensator flash hider). The thickened barrel with a length of 550 mm is used at 100% of the power of the cartridge. By the way, the length with a short barrel of 410 mm for the RPK-16 is 895 mm, for the AK-12 with an unfolded buttstock it is 940 mm and almost the same barrel length is 415 mm.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Yes, an ordinary cartridge (after all, there are ALREADY a lot of them) and mass character are better than single toys.

[bunta]

It seems that a certain category of people in our country is a little less than completely cut off from reality, but they make decisions. The most disgusting thing is that it is not they who suffer from this, which would be fair, but those who are forced to accept the consequences of these decisions.

The absolute truth!

[Adrey]

The transition to new systems is definitely needed. But even more important is the transition to a new ammunition and the development of new systems specifically for it. How much can you use an archaic welt cartridge? For Marxmen, you can not invent a "bicycle". 308 cartridge is completely mastered by the industry, it remains only to tighten the suffering quality

[IVZ]

Not so much a new ammunition, although this is also, but the development and implementation of technologies and other measures to improve the quality of ammunition in general and high-precision ammunition in particular, otherwise no new ammunition of any caliber will help.

[Adrey]

Of course I agree with you. When 30-06 Novosibirsk according to the passport has a spread of 12.5 x 100 This is something with something.
But I'm also on a more global level. About something like 6.5x50

[Puzoter]

And what is its archaism? The dimensions and characteristics + are the same as those of the NATO rifle, the shape of the bullet is no less perfect, the welt does not affect the accuracy and accuracy at all. And for a machine gun, the welt is even more convenient.

[IVZ]

where did you get the idea that the welt for a machine gun is more convenient? Size, weight, design complexity, more difficult to load and unload, more dangerous to operate, heavy tape link with high extraction force. A machine gun chambered for an experimental VSS cartridge (cal. 6mm, but the size of the cartridge is the same and the barrel for it is even heavier than the standard one) with a “pierced” tape link, created on the basis of the PKM, was lighter than the PKM by 700 gr. and this is with bypass technologies for the manufacture of prototypes.

[bunta]

Quote: Adrey

How much can you use an archaic welt cartridge?

archaic? The heavy legacy of the tsarist regime - our three-line cartridge for the Mosin rifle with a rim?

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/ingw/tiajeloe-nasledie-carskogo-rejima-nash-trehlineinyi-patron-dlia-vintovki-mosina-s-zakrainoi-s-6265895d2e2199317d8e7d82

[Adrey]

Quote: bunta

The heavy legacy of the tsarist regime

Exactly. An excellent solution for the three-ruler and "Maxima" fabric tape, in a not-quite-technological industry. How old is this patron? About 150?
Name me at least one country in the world where "your" welt cartridge is in service?
This is really "unparalleled in the world" for the active army (we do not take hunting "exotics" into account, as well as revolvers)

[bunta]

Quote: Adrey

An excellent solution for the three-ruler and "Maxima" fabric tape, in a not-quite-technological industry. How old is this patron? About 150?
Name me at least one country in the world where "your" welt cartridge is in service?

It looks like you didn't read the article. And if they read, they did not understand anything. In that case, congratulations on your lifelong diagnosis.

[Adrey]

Quote: bunta

It looks like you didn't read the article. And if they read, they did not understand anything.

Was reading. In general, I am understanding. And I know perfectly well that the SVD allows even now to confidently solve the tasks set for it at a distance of 500m. This applies to both weapons and ammunition.
All that you cited above (from my words) can you refute? Or do you deny progress as such?
The message of the article is clear. Instead of inventing a new "bicycle", it is more expedient to "finish" the existing one. In principle, it is absolutely true for the "here and now", but still, it is probably impossible to sit in one place for 150 years. And yes ... Can you object to the "quality" of our cartridges?
Do you think that we are now not able to create a cartridge based on modern technologies that is more advanced than the 54th, "furry" or even "mossy" year of the start of production, and, accordingly, weapons for it?

[bunta]

Quote: Adrey

The message of the article is clear. Instead of inventing a new "bicycle", it is more expedient to "finish" the existing one.

You didn't understand a damn thing. They just confirmed the diagnosis.

[vl903]

cartridge with a welt why did you not like it?)))
bpz, npz do like 308, but the accuracy is the same.
it's probably not the welt, but the stability of the parameters of gunpowder, the accuracy of the weights and the manufacture of components.
that is, the problem is in the MO - it must give an order, money and control the execution. and 308 and or 54r at a distance of up to 800 meters probably makes no difference.
but the welt is cheaper for a machine gun cartridge, this is important, plus one cartridge for a machine gun and a platoon sniper rifle, a squad is also a plus.
in short, the problem is not in the wound, but in the Moscow Region and our economy
the welt has a minus - no one could create a reliable store for more than 20 rounds. but the same microwave was done in 54, 308 and 338 calibers, but the MO said, 308 and 338 are not needed ...

[Virtual]

It seems that a certain category of people in our country is cut off from reality a little less than completely, but they make decisions.

In my opinion, it would be more accurate: "All the people who make decisions in the cabinets of Russia (and probably not only in it) are completely divorced from reality."

[alexey sidykin]

Quote from Virtual

In my opinion, it will be more accurate: "All the people who make decisions in the offices of Russia (and probably not only in it) are completely divorced from reality

You would go there ... oh, you would be punished.

[Virtual]

You would go there ... oh, they would punish you

.
I am almost sure that it is not worse, but of course while ensuring independence.

[alexey sidykin]

Are you in the military?

[Virtual]

There is no way to the military, but the indicated problem is not only in the Moscow Region, but everywhere. There will also be military specialists who are not divorced from reality.

[alexey sidykin]

Well, everything is clear with you ... we are all specialists on the couch. And in everything.

[Virtual]

And with whom is it unclear? Maybe with the brave reports of representatives of the military-industrial complex that do not agree with the realities?

[alexey sidykin]

Do you have access to the reports of the military-industrial complex and the Defense Ministry? Or so, OBS ...

[Virtual]

Do you want to say that reality is described in secret reports between departments, but the acceptance of weapons is still carried out according to reports to Putin in the media?

[alexey sidykin]

Are you by chance not from Odessa that you answer a question with a question? I don’t know who and how decides there, and therefore I don’t climb with my opinion how and what to do. I have enough sense to figure out that if it’s not in the subject, then it’s better not to climb with your opinion. As I already wrote, sitting on the couch is easy to decide ...

[Virtual]

I have enough sense to figure out that if it’s not in the subject, then it’s better not to climb with your opinion.

Well, don't bother, I'm not forcing you.

[alexey sidykin]

So I don't go...

[IVZ]

In my opinion, it would be more accurate: "All the people who make decisions in the cabinets of Russia (and probably not only in it) are completely divorced from reality."

Yeah, don't we know

[KSVK]

Quote: Konnick

which with a conventional cartridge 5,45x39, not a sniper 7N1 7,62x54, has a better accuracy of a single shot up to 500 meters than SVD.

And what will a 5,45 bullet at 500 meters carry in terms of energy?
And how is it with shooting "five" not in a closed gallery, but with a breeze?
PS And on the topic of the article, the money spent on the development of microwaves would have been better spent on launching the production of normal bullets. And the SVD could be slightly modernized. Shorten and thicken the barrel and install a lightweight chassis.

[Konnick]

And what will a 5,45 bullet at 500 meters carry in terms of energy?

Of course, the energy is less in joules, but based on the cross-sectional area, it also makes holes in the armor.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

According to the experience of shooting, it is 7,62 that blows with the wind stronger than 5,45, even by eye it is noticeable.

[KSVK]

You apparently compared some not very comparable bullets.
Of course, I didn’t shoot at 223 meters from the 500rd, I don’t see the point in the presence of the 308th.
Take the Shooter and try to simulate cartridges with the same bullet design.
I'm not lazy.
.308 TMK 175 UAH 841 m/s wind 90° right 5 m/s.
lateral adjustment 60 cm.
.224 ТМК 69 UAH 900 m/s same wind
lateral adjustment 79 cm.
PS With this cartridge in the 308th, I hit a chest target at 1029 meters 5 out of 5 times.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Here in this topic, with your participation, this has already been discussed.
https://topwar.ru/189410-kalashnikov-anonsiroval-podpisanie-soglashenija-s-indiej-na-licenzionnoe-proizvodstvo-ak-203.html#comment-id-11960477

[Alexfly]

TMK - which one is without rifling? Or Tipped Match King. In the first case, it would not have flown ..

[Zaurbek]

And the most important question, which is very relevant since February of this year. If there is already an understanding of the need for .338, then when will there be an understanding of the need for .408 CT as well? How many years do you need to lay down to see it or a developed analogue in the lists of possible calibers?

At Army2022, two stands showed these cartridges with and with all-metal bullets too. Whose gunpowder - I do not know.

About SVD, the latest opinions are that only 50% of shooters can realize the data of this rifle. By virtue of qualification ...... She is good for an army sniper (taking into account upgrades) but has various ergonomic disadvantages.

[Dimax-nemo]

The weapon under 0.408 is the Twilight, as far as I understand. "There is an opinion" that most army snipers still do not need this. Those. "should be", but few have.
I do not know at what pace we are going to produce microwaves. If there is a lot, then, perhaps, there is no point in messing with the "body kit" of the SVD. Although I would "tinker", of course.
Mass production of highly accurate cartridges is not something we are strong in. This will require not only updating the machine park of the cartridge industry, but also the introduction of a fundamentally different technological culture. Not characteristic of domestic industry since the Great Patriotic War.

[Zaurbek]

There is not one universal cartridge ..... more or less it is .308 and our Mosin .... the rest is niche cartridges for specialists. .408 in general for firing at the right distances - comparable to the preparation of a gun shot in terms of complexity. It is necessary to take into account exactly the same parameters and there are difficulties with determining the wind.

[Dimax-nemo]

Well, gentlemen snipers "want" to sit further than 1000 m from the target. It's "more convenient" for them. Safer at least. Rifle cartridges, of course, for accurate shooting at such distances at the end of the 19th century. nobody counted. 7,62 NATO is no different in this respect.

[Zaurbek]

If necessary, it must be provided. It's just a niche product and shooting is for specific purposes. I watched an interview with a sniper, he said that just training shooting with .338 is a load on the body (and you need to shoot to maintain the skill). Very powerful ammo.

[Dimax-nemo]

They are trying .... but the idea with their 9x64 failed along the way. It was not possible to get off with a little blood. I had to take .338.

[Zaurbek]

Now, for non-primary ammunition ... Why not take it? Everything has already been researched for you ... The cost of finding a caliber and tests are not needed ..... Barrels and blanks are on sale

[Dimax-nemo]

We have sigrates, cartridges and pasta of the same caliber. The question is, will we buy these cartridges or make them ourselves?

[km-21]

The quality of the shot for a sniper rifle is very important. But reliability and availability are equally important. Therefore, the selection criterion is not one quality, but the most acceptable compromise of all the necessary qualities. In this sense, SVD is the best option today. And over time, it will definitely be replaced by a more advanced rifle.
But then...

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Moreover, two idiots sitting on skyscrapers in different parts of the city will not be allowed to spit (it seems like the range (and accuracy insufficient for long-range battles) are the main arguments against SVD), or they will blow a grenade, or they will please one of the duels with a tank.

[Dead duck]

Why is it impossible, in parallel with the development of a new one, to make better what is at war now?

- Yeah. Give one Armata, another old rifles. Two extremes, two paths.
Paradoxically, everyone is right. It's just hard to strike a balance.
You can (need) to upgrade the old and do the new.
But life is a strange thing, everything is always awry and not as it should

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Why bother with ammo?
Do 12.7 or better 14.5 and where you don’t get - success (with a high probability).

[IVZ]

Quote: Dimax-Nemo

Mass production of highly accurate cartridges is not something we are strong in. This will require not only updating the machine park of the cartridge industry, but also the introduction of a fundamentally different technological culture. Not characteristic of domestic industry since the Great Patriotic War.

And yet this is what needs to be done. By the way, about the unusualness of technology. culture. Didn't understand the phrase. technological equipment, equipment, staff training, selection of materials, production culture, but those. culture is something new.

[Sedoy]

what does it mean?

Yes, you can’t understand ... "everyone has their own war" ...
where is the production, the state order and where is the "shooter" ...
they're not even in the same universe...

[Alexandra]

And the most important question, which is very relevant since February of this year. If there is already an understanding of the need for .338, then when will there be an understanding of the need for .408 CT as well? How many years do you need to lay down to see it or a developed analogue in the lists of possible calibers?

About the most important question. As you know, in 2019, the 10x100 BWA cartridge appeared, which surpasses the .408 CT in all characteristics. Anyone who copies someone else's, and does not create a new one of his own, is doomed to eternal lag.

Did the author of the article hear about the .40 Lobaev Improved cartridge and the development of a hypersonic cartridge for the DXL-5 rifle?

What can the author of the article say about .338 LM cartridges with a RAPIRA bullet manufactured by the Ulyanovsk Cartridge Plant?

[IVZ]

About the most important question. As you know, in 2019, the 10x100 BWA cartridge appeared, which surpasses the .408 CT in all characteristics. Anyone who copies someone else's, and does not create a new one of his own, is doomed to eternal lag.

Did the author of the article hear about the .40 Lobaev Improved cartridge and the development of a hypersonic cartridge for the DXL-5 rifle?

What can the author of the article say about .338 LM cartridges with a RAPIRA bullet manufactured by the Ulyanovsk Cartridge Plant?

"Best the enemy of the good". The characteristics of both ammunition and weapons must be optimized for specific tasks. Even cartridge 408 does not seem to be officially in service anywhere. If only because the 14,5x114 cartridge "in all respects" will surpass the 10x100 BWA, and there is nothing to say about the 30x165 cartridge, only there are no free cakes. As for the rumors about the development of all sorts of super munitions, we must wait for concrete results. There have always been enough rumors and gossip within the framework of various PR companies. .

[Alexandra]

If only because the 14,5 x114 cartridge "in all respects" will surpass the 10x100 BWA, and there is nothing to say about the 30x165 cartridge, only there are no free cakes.

That's right, there are no free cakes. The bullet cartridge 10x100 BWA maintains supersonic flight speed at a distance of up to 2,7 km. The 14,5 x114 cartridge bullet will maintain supersonic flight speed at a distance of up to 2 km (B-32 bullet 338 m / s at a distance of 2000 m). In addition, the 14,5x114 cartridge is simply not suitable for a "portable" sniper rifle (let alone 30x165). Whereas BWA 10x100 with the 420 Grs.monolithic bullet for the flattest shooting combination and power range in a portable weapon system.

[IVZ]

The characteristics are impressive, I do not argue, but the army does not need such a cartridge. Expensive, almost 12.7 recoil, barrel eater at V=1070m/sec. - in fact, a purely sports cartridge for record ranges.

[Alexandra]

Well, within the framework of this logic, the .408 CT cartridge is not needed by the army. Therefore, one can not ask why there is no "understanding of the need" for it by the "honored TsNIITochmash".

Let me remind you that 14.5x114 has an initial speed of 1000 m / s (PTRS - 1020 m / s). Hence, also a "stem eater". And the development by TsNIITochmash in Soviet times of a 6x49 rifle-machine-gun cartridge with an initial speed of 1150 m / s, within the framework of this logic, looks like an attempt at economic sabotage. :)

[IVZ]

I had the good fortune to participate in the last work. The speed was set to either 1060 or 1080. We actually got 1020-1040. Despite the polygonal barrels specially designed for this case with a thick layer of chromium (the latter is nonsense for a high-precision good class), in general, it was not possible to fit into the requirements for durability. with logic
Honored TsNIITochmash (without quotes, he, unlike very, very many, did something for the country) absolutely agrees on this issue. Rifles for such ammunition are needed by an extremely limited circle of users. The development and production of such things, from my point of view, is the lot of Lobaev and similar organizations.

[bunta]

Quote: AlexanderA

Did the author of the article hear about the .40 Lobaev Improved cartridge and the development of a hypersonic cartridge for the DXL-5 rifle?

Yes, they even heard about a range of 7 km. Only with such statements does Lobaev finally discredit himself as an engineer.

[Alexandra]

The weapon speaks for the gunsmith. Specifically, Lobaev speaks for his rifles for high-precision shooting at long ranges. And yes, I forgot this remark in the article:

But on the .338 Lapua Magnum, I want to not only draw attention, but to play pranks. But what about the development of an analogue announced in 2019 by the respected and honored TsNIITochmash?

Illustrate with this photo:

I believe for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the PFO cartridge cases need to be coated with green varnish. :)

[SergioCDS]

... - I AGREE!!! - It's a pity. in Russia there are ALWAYS a lot of FOOLS (the same sample Fedorov automatic rifle, 2,5-line automatic rifle)

[would]

Specifically, Lobaev speaks for his rifles for high-precision shooting at long ranges.

Which, with at least some mass production, began to be produced frankly defective. Moreover, people I know say that nothing has changed even now,
he couldn't get it to release. So yes, they say and how.

[Plate]

What's wrong with the rifle, I still do not understand. Making new weapons is always more expensive than continuing to run with the old one, but otherwise we would still be fighting with sticks and stones.

[vl903]

with microwave? on the Hansa, about its civilian version of the mp1, they wrote that the upper frame of the "curtain" was flimsy, because of this, there was supposedly no stable accuracy. and superiority over the svd tiger did not appear
and the svdm has a thicker barrel, a folding butt, a thread on the barrel. those. probably not worse than microwave

[Plate]

Well, that's what I had to say. Yes, the author says that hung with SVD (not mentioning SVDM, by the way) will be better than microwave, but then it starts ...

[senima56]

And why do you write about "body kits, etc.", but do not touch the SVDM model at all? After all, there are many improvements compared to the "basic" SVD. In particular, a thickened trunk.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

What's the point of shortening the barrel?
This is not a toy where a sniper runs ahead of everyone and blows off the heads of enemies.
And accuracy, range and energy will drop.

No, call it a "shooting rifle" or something like that (although the question will arise where so much, to supply later ...) maybe the norms, a kind of "semi-snipers".
But it is for ordinary ones - there is SVD, there are specific VSS. SV-98 or whatever we have from the far.
And where is this?

[vl903]

this is the normal evolution of sniper automatic rifles for short distances svt-svd-svdm-svch.
defeat childhood microwave diseases and get a slightly shorter and more convenient svdm, with a 308 cartridge and also with a large magazine. here or the lives of their soldiers or spend money on ever newer weapons. if they held on to the PPSh, then there would be no AK.
sv98 and vss are completely different instruments. like rifles under 338

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: vl903

sv98 and vss are completely different instruments. like rifles under 338

SV-98 - sort of like in the distance.
SVD - from near to average.
VSS - close and silent.

I am wrong?

[vl903]

right, it looks like

[would]

What's the point of shortening the barrel?

The fact that this is an infantry sniper rifle, and an infantry sniper operates as part of a squad, that is, he moves in an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle in which, to put it mildly, there is not much space.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Is there a reason to do this ersatz?
In the end, they would try to make a folding trunk ...
Well, all sorts of grenade launchers / machine guns fit in, they would have found where to stick it.

[would]

Why is it ersatz? I am more than sure that it is possible to shorten the barrel to fulfill all the requirements of a rifle for an infantry sniper, both in terms of range and accuracy.

But so far no one has succeeded in making such a folding barrel, especially within the framework of sniper weapons.

With grenade launchers and machine guns, work is also constantly underway to reduce their weight and size characteristics.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Um, screw-on "Muzzles and barrel extensions for shooting from hunting and pneumatic weapons" are sold in gun shops like that.
This means you can connect the trunk.
And then there are two options, either to screw, or, tighten up and put in a folding one (it's all about fastening ...

[would]

I know only one barrel extensions for rifled ones - false silencers. They are needed only in order to pass our legislative restrictions on civilian weapons and have no other functions.

But I don’t know any straight real trunks consisting of several parts and it’s quite clear why.

[erased]

In the Russian Federation there is a problem with the creation of modern-type gunpowder. In the USA, they created a new cartridge 6,8x51 and weapons for it! made. Including a Marksman carbine with a barrel length of 406 mm. That is, this length is enough to disperse the bullet at a working distance. And we have? You can make new barrels as much as you like, but until there is a concept of a new ammunition, there is no clear understanding at what distances this or that type of weapon should work, there will be no sense in new products. Just a waste of money. In other words, cut.
Where is the Turner project? And "Turner-2"? These are new machine guns chambered for 5,45X39 with belt feed. For the RPK-16 does not suit the military type because ... And hell knows why. And only 25 lyams were allocated for one project. Not dense, but not empty either. The same goes for other types of weapons. How many new "super pistols" have been made? From Udav to PLC. Yes, under different cartridges. That's right, it is necessary that each structure has its own cartridge and its own barrel. Down with unification, give individuality! Also Kalash in different types in each regiment!
If the SVD is outdated, then you need to clearly understand what exactly. Have bullets stopped reaching the target, or do they not penetrate infantry armor? Dimensions do not fit into the hatch of an armored personnel carrier? Or someone wanted to cut a little more dough?
After 1992, super-order reigns in the weapons system, as in the entire Russian Federation. Full order. Under the name - scribe! That's how he didn't come to us. Final and irrevocable. And with what to meet him - with SVD or microwave - a different question.

[vl903]

the problem seems to be in the stability and repeatability of the parameters of gunpowder. dispersing a bullet on a short barrel is not a problem.
developing new technology is good. drank dough - inevitably and in fact
well, the main thing is that there would be control and the money would reach the factories of designers, workers, scientists, and not offshore.
both in the USSR and in the USA there was a sea of ​​​​experimental work and experiments. without this there will be no development and then as a result of masterpieces.
only control over effective managers is needed

[RED_ICE]

Well, we have everything in a warrior equipped. How bad is he

[storm]

Total. For a price of 2 to 5 minimum wages, we get a rifle that is limited by the capabilities of the cartridge.

Undoubtedly, it is necessary to follow the evolutionary path by modernizing the thousands of SVDs in service. A new barrel, body kit, and improved ammunition will make it possible to use the potential inherent in the SVD to the maximum, and the reliability and reliability of the SVD has been proven in hundreds of military conflicts around the world.

To solve a number of special tasks, the troops do not have enough sniper weapons for a more powerful cartridge, capable of working at a distance of a thousand or more meters on targets protected by class 4-5 bulletproof vests, but the weight of the rifle should be at the level of 7-8 kg.
Rifles in caliber . 338 LM, it is on their production that the Ministry of Defense should focus.

Why spend huge amounts of money to replace the existing and very good SVDs, it is enough to simply improve them to modern requirements.
And here is the issue with the lack of "medium" caliber rifles (. 338 LM) in the troops
you need to decide and the sooner the better, especially since such rifles are required many times less than SVD.

[mad big]

Until the training of the REAL is put on stream in RA !!! snipers, then all these attempts will be nothing more than treating the dead with an enema. Separately, the production of sniper ammunition. Somehow, in one disbanded unit, they found several boxes of sniper cartridges of the 72nd year of release in cardboard packs. Compared to today, it was heaven and earth. Everything should be in the complex.

[Radical]

Respect to the author of the article.

[yakisam]

Cool
It turns out that the army of a certain state with a border length of tens of thousands of kilometers needs specific sniper rifles and this is a priority ... task
I don’t remember anything about the opposition of a sniper or even ten thousand snipers to the offensive of a tank division supported by an artillery brigade and front-line aviation. No opposition, even if they are all given super-duper-modern rifles with silencers that shoot as much as 0.5 MOA ...
The problem is that the army of this state does not have tank divisions, artillery brigades, and front-line aviation ... does not really know how to interact with them.
Probably because the "specialists" are all "developing" the tactics and strategy of sniping
Damn, can you stop whining about super rifles already?
They are not needed in a war. If the command knows something about military affairs, and the personnel knows something about discipline. For example, do not forget that the hatch is designed to be closed ...

[vvn_vl]

probably one of the party leaders makes decisions, so don't expect anything good

[ArsAli]

Nemo arms omen recon under 300win mag is what you need

[air wolf]

There is an SVD-M with a forged and hanging barrel and chambered for 9.3-64, so they could save money ...

[LORD-72]

Because all this was bought for their hard-earned money (and besides tuning “tools”, buying more comfortable armor or helmets, the fighters still have their own families) - the “stuffing” is far from complete ... since the fighters can buy the necessary things from their own pocket, then for the state it won't be a problem at all.[/quote]
There will be no problem only if - why spend money from the budget if they buy it themselves.
Here's how.
A Russian and an American argued over who would organize a strike from each other faster.
- A Russian at an American plant reduced wages by 2%. And that's it! The Americans went on strike, put up posters and are picketing.
- An American at a Russian factory halved his salary.
- Russians go to work.
- The American stopped paying altogether.
- Russians go to work.
- The American introduced an entrance fee.
- Russians go to work and pay.
- The American got angry, called a meeting of the labor collective and announced:
- Tomorrow we will hang all of you at the factory yard.
- Silence in the hall and suddenly a timid voice from the back row:
- Do you bring a rope and soap with you or will they give you one?

[Dmitry Karabanov]

Well, everything is like this with us - it’s not the military Putin who determines the strategy of the NWO, but the Ministry of Defense is in charge - he didn’t even serve Shoigu. Supplies for the army go through the "right people" who are completely unsinkable. A fresh example - a stealing general from supply was appointed an inspector (!). No, you can't do without Stalin and SMERSH!

[Eule]

The author missed another important point - the SVD was designed soon for 50 years already. That is, under the machines of that time, technologies, materials, etc.
Therefore, to make a microwave, in which most of the improvements to the SVD by snipers, will be immediately attached - a great idea.
The second plus of microwave is the development of a technical process for modern CNC machines, materials, and so on. The same body kit - 50 years ago, to make a mold for the forearm as now with tuning companies, it would be incredibly expensive, since it is almost a jeweler's work with stainless steel. Now such a mold is ordered in Taiwan, and in three weeks it is received by mail. No, in the Russian Federation it will be more expensive and three times longer, since taxes are higher here and there is a FIU. And most importantly, the current molds are made on specialized CNC by a company that makes different molds in three shifts and has vast experience in their manufacture.
Barrel manufacturing - yes, there are some hemorrhoids, but then again - machines for planing and deep drilling have now become more perfect. There are more advanced stainless barrel steels, which do not conduct even during heat treatment, and the accuracy of firing a barrel from them is higher. All this can be applied to the manufacture of the Chukalin rifle.
The introduction of all new technologies in the manufacture of SVD will cost the same, since the military will require a full range of state tests of a rifle made in a new way. It is logical to make a more advanced weapon for the same money.

[Dedok]

https://ok.ru/video/3955881872000
that's what a rifle is for today, and for the rest, SVD is enough

[George Miloslavsky]

And where is INFA about microwave then?!!! SVD is not a microwave, the author confused the title of the article.

[Drdim]

1,3 MOA, which in Russian means 3,77 cm at 100 meters

Wrong 10 times. Why write if you don't know the topics so much?

[Drdim]

Wrong 10 times.

I'm sorry, I'm wrong.

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

Well, rifles with a thin barrel have not been produced for a long time, they produce SVD-M, with a shorter and thicker barrel that does not heat up. And there are already bipods in stock and you can put any sights.
800 m, for svd a lot, and primarily because of the sight. With PSO, you are tormented by aiming ...
The only thing you really need is good sniper ammo. They really make it easier to work with both SVD and SHF and SV-98, which with good cartridges and optics can really work up to a kilometer and even further ...

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

Microwave is a normal mass rifle, an analogue of the SVD, a little lighter and more convenient ... In general, it is commensurate with the SVD-M, but it can be a little more comfortable due to the size.
In principle, both SVD-M and SHF have normal reviews, the main problem is not a rifle, but the fact that they are often equipped with weak sights, the same pso-1 ... And not top-end Daedalus or nightforce ... And all other things being equal, namely optics gives the maximum increase in efficiency ... This affects both accuracy and combat rate of fire, with a good sight it is much easier and faster to aim and make the necessary corrections.