New trendsetter: either a cruiser or a destroyer of project 055

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Symbol of the new Chinese military fleet may for years become the benchmark that all the shipbuilders of the world will look at, because this ship is really good. Today, Project 055 destroyers are the most modern and combat-ready ships of the PLA Navy, and quite possibly the best ships of this class in the world.

John Trevithick, known for his sober views on ships, and I will try to look at the new Chinese destroyer cruiser from the point of view of American competitors.



True, to which class to attribute "Nanchan" is not all that simple. Yes, the Chinese call 055 destroyers, but in terms of displacement and armament, these are ships that can not only withstand, but definitely be head and shoulders above the old projects such as the American Ticonderoga and the Soviet Atlanta.


There is something. A destroyer with a displacement of 13 tons will carry more weapons than a Soviet cruiser (displacement 000 tons) or an American cruiser (displacement 11 tons). If you look at these figures, then the Ticonderoga looks quite like a destroyer against the background of 500, and the Russian Atlant is not so much inferior, but ...

The whole question is in the "stuffing". It is clear that the Ticonderoga, the most recent of which will soon celebrate its thirtieth birthday, even taking into account the upgrades, is not a competitor to the Chinese ship, which is brand new. We are simply silent about the two Project 1164 cruisers remaining at the disposal of the Russian Navy. History with "Moscow" perfectly showed everyone what the combat value of the former Soviet ships, financed all their lives according to the residual principle, is.

But we are talking about Chinese ships, which the leadership of the Chinese fleet is seriously counting on in the future. And the fact that there is a future, there is no need to tell here, we all understand this very well. And we understand why the two newest Project 055 ships are currently engaged in combat training near Taiwan.

Recently, a lot of pictures appeared on the Web, more precisely, screenshots from the Chinese television broadcast dedicated to the next anniversary of the formation of the PRC armed forces, which bloggers happily distributed through the Weibo network. The footers on all the pictures include the numbers "1927" and "2022", which indicates that this is indeed a broadcast from August 1, which in China is like ours on February 23.

The PLA traces its history back to the uprising that took place on August 1, 1927 in Nanchang. The city after which the lead ship of the 055 series is named.

Currently, the PLA Navy has already received six such ships. Two more are on the water in the process of being completed, and about ten are at various stages of construction.


As a result, according to its shipbuilding program, China should receive 16 such destroyers.

Yes, 16 of these destroyers are not a cant of the American Arleigh Burks, but a decent force. And, since we are talking about the Arleigh Burke, then the third iteration of these ships will have a displacement of about 10 tons and smaller dimensions than the Nanchang. What in the eyes of the Americans elevates the project 800 to the category of cruisers.

But the ship is not rich in size alone. In terms of armament, Nanchang's 112 vertical launch system cells are more than on an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer (96 cells), although slightly less than on a Ticonderoga-class cruiser (122 cells). This is also higher on the Zamwalt-class destroyers (80 cells), which are generally larger than Chinese 055s.

New trendsetter: either a cruiser or a destroyer of project 055

The cell design used on the Type 055, which is also used on the Type 052D destroyers, differs markedly from the Mk.41 and Mk.57 systems used on current generation US Navy warships.

The cells used in the Chinese universal system are larger than their American counterparts, a by-product of their ability to launch both hot- and cold-launched missiles. A hot-launch rocket is characterized in that the main rocket engine is fired inside the launcher, while a cold-launch rocket is ejected using a propellant charge or other pressurized gas generator before the main engine starts.

It's not entirely clear how hot start works, but it appears that heat-resistant shells are loaded into the launch cells. This could eliminate the need for any dedicated duct to deflect flame from the rocket engine. This is not visible on the pictures, which means that the cells are really universal and allow you to launch missiles of both types. Yes, you have to pay for this in size, and if the Chinese used only cold-start missiles on their ships, then the number of cells in the UVP could be much larger than that of the Ticonderoga.

The pictures show that indeed there are no outlet channels for the flame.


Flames are seen erupting from a channel in the middle of the VLS Mk.41 system on the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS John Paul Jones when an SM-6 missile is hot fired.


The second picture shows a missile launch on the destroyer Farragut of the same family. The picture clearly shows the flame outlet chute.

Although it is quite possible that the ventilation ducts and flame arresters are simply not visible in the pictures. And the cautious Chinese are in no hurry to publish detailed videos of missile launches.

In any case, the type 055 destroyer's CWP systems are designed in such a way that they can be loaded with various types of missiles. The system is reportedly capable of firing missiles from the YJ-18 and CJ-10 land-based and anti-ship cruise missile families, YJ-83 anti-ship cruise missiles, HQ-16 and HQ-9 surface-to-air missiles, and anti-submarine rocket-propelled torpedoes. Yu-8. torpedo Yu-8.

The DK-10 surface-to-air missile, developed for export and not yet adopted by the PLA, can also be launched from these cells. American intelligence officers have information that China is working on the creation of a ballistic missile under the Nanchane air defense system.

In addition, a launcher for 24 HQ-10 short-range air defense missiles was installed on the roof of the helicopter hangar.


This is a very successful copier from the American RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM), which is in service with the US Army and Navy. The HQ-10 is also designed to counter anti-ship cruise missiles.


In addition to launch cells, the Nanchan has a 130mm H/PJ-38 gun in the nose turret, as well as an 11-barreled 30mm H/PJ-11 Close Combat System (CIWS) forward of the main superstructure.

Aviation armament consists of two Harbin Z-9 helicopters, for which hangars were designed, but the Nanchang flight deck is sized to accommodate larger Z-20FS.

The Z-20 appears to be a complete clone of the American Sikorsky UH-60 "Black Hawk" helicopter, visually distinguished mainly by its five-blade main rotor.


Not surprising, given that in the 80s, China bought 24 Sikorsky S-70C-2 helicopters, an export-commercial version of the UH-60 helicopter, which still serve in the PLA's army aviation.

The defensive armament of the Nanchang consists of four Type 726 defensive launchers, which are located in pairs on both sides of the aft part of the ship's superstructure.


These 24-cell launchers can be loaded with flares, jamming cartridges, decoys and decoys, RF jammers, anti-submarine missiles and small depth charges.

Part of the defensive means is designed to fight primarily against anti-ship missiles, and anti-submarine missiles and bombs - for defense against submarines and combat divers.


Shot installation Type 726 on the destroyer of the previous project 052D

A very interesting feature that the Americans have not yet figured out is the square antennas installed along the edge of the upper part of the Nanchang bridge.


This design feature of the Project 055 destroyers has not been conclusively identified, and various sources suggest that it may be a key part of the ship's electronic warfare system.


Indeed, most likely, the way it is, this array of rectangular antennas installed above the Nanchang bridge, characteristic of all destroyers of the 055 type, was installed there for a reason. But the Chinese know how to keep their secrets, so experts can only make assumptions that this is part of a complex to suppress the radar seeker of anti-ship missiles.

Of course, ships such as the Type 055 have electronic warfare (EW) and electronic support (ESM) systems. That is, destroyers are capable of detecting, tracking and classifying potentially hostile radars and other signal sources, and jamming them.

EW / ESM systems are fixed antenna arrays installed on the lower sides of the main bow superstructure and on both sides of the hangars.

What the ship “looks” at is a dual-band (C / S) radar type 346B “Dragon Eye” with four active phased antenna arrays, supplemented by an X-band system, mounted on a mast. An X-band fire control radar with four AFARs is installed on the mast. The ships are also equipped with navigation radars and air traffic control radars (TACAN, UHF and VHF), also located on the mast.

In general, American experts note a significant saturation of ships with radio electronics.

There is, however, one minus in comparison with world analogues. The imagery lacks the long-range antenna domes found on warships. The images show small satellite communications antennas, which suggests that Chinese ships are not planned to conduct operations at significant distances from their communications, where long-range communication is required. This is certainly not such a pressing issue when operating at a regional level, but given that China has global ambitions for its navy, and especially the 055 type, it is worth considering.

As a result, destroyers 055 are very modern and well-equipped ships, on which the Chinese naval command relies in the implementation of its plans. The speed with which the Chinese are building these ships is a testament to the impressive shipbuilding industry that the country has been able to build to support its navy modernization goals.


Last year, the Nanchan became the first destroyer of the project to go on a campaign as an escort for an aircraft carrier of the PLA Navy. This is expected to be a major role for the entire class, especially as China's carrier fleet grows (and no one doubts it will). That is, destroyers pr.055 will become the basis for the creation of the Chinese AUG to perform combat missions in the Asia-Pacific region. At the same time, they will be important components of other groups of surface ships tasked with operating away from the coast of China, and will also be able to conduct independent operations.

Given all this, it is not at all surprising that the plan for the modernization of the PLA Navy provides for the construction of a significant number of such ships and their operation in the interests of the PRC. For example, demonstrations of force in the Taiwan area.

If you look at what they write in the Huanqiu Ribao newspaper (which is the Global Times), which is a structural subdivision of the People's Daily newspaper, an organ of the Communist Party of China, then they talked about the continuation of exercises in the Taiwan area, including , with rocket launches.


Of course, it's worth noting that the Type 055 has yet to demonstrate any of its claimed capabilities in actual combat of any kind. It is also unclear what standards these destroyers and their various subsystems were built to. In June italian news defense news website Geopolitica.info published an article saying that the Pakistani navy is experiencing significant problems with its Chinese-made Zulfiqar-class frigates, with problems affecting various key systems, including their engines, weapons systems and sensors.

The Zulfiqar design is an improved derivative of the 053H3, designed specifically for Pakistan. True, the Italians did not provide any evidence, so taking it on faith or not is up to everyone who reads it. Of course, ships that are unknown and untested in battle can carry many different

This report remains unconfirmed, but it is a reminder that there are many unknowns as to how capable China's new warships actually are, despite how impressive they may look or what their data is on paper.

However, it may turn out the other way around: despite all the expectations and forecasts in the West, Project 055 destroyers may turn out to be not just warships, but good warships. And there is a chance that they can take the place of the best in their class. Although, by and large, there are not so many representatives in the class.

More importantly, the ambitions of the PRC are supported by quite modern ships of the new construction. This is serious, especially considering the fact that the construction of these ships is not an isolated matter, but quite a serial construction. Six ships for four years in service - some countries (unfortunately, Russia) cannot boast of such a pace of construction in principle. After all, the construction of a destroyer is a somewhat more complicated matter than the construction of corvettes and small missile ships.

Since the seventies of the last century, ships (except aircraft carriers) have been constantly decreasing in size. And the beginning of everything was laid after the end of the Second World War, when the re-evaluation of ship classes began. It is possible that Chinese destroyers will begin to move upward, since ships capable of operating at a considerable distance from their bases must be able to do more than their predecessors.


The Americans are closely watching the development of the PLA Navy, as they consider this fleet the first threat at sea. Of course, they would be interested in getting more detailed data on the combat capabilities of these ships, and for two reasons at once.

The first is to know what to expect from these ships, since it is quite possible that they will have to be faced. Somewhere in the territorial waters of Taiwan.

The second is that after the failure of the program with the Zamvolts, something must be done in terms of replacing the Arly Berkovs, the first of which has been serving since 1991, and the last since 2012. That is, sooner or later they will have to change. By that time, it will definitely become clear how good Chinese destroyers are.

In the end, the Israeli Iron Dome air defense system was adopted by the US Army. Why not look at Chinese ships? Moreover, project 055 is a very interesting and promising ship.

Who knows how it will all end, but today China is demonstrating such a development of its military-industrial complex that it will not be surprising if either a destroyer or a cruiser of the PLA Navy becomes an example to follow.
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  1. 0
    9 August 2022 05: 28
    may for years become the benchmark that all shipbuilders of the world will look at, since this ship is really good, ...... either a cruiser or a project 055 destroyer
    Who knows, we'll see. request Role models appeared - mine cruisers, and there were leaders. feel
    1. +1
      9 August 2022 06: 32
      I agree with you.
      What would count trendsetter, it is necessary that imitators similar to the model appear.
      And so it is for now upstart .
      In the likeness of the dudes of the 60s - such a commonality appeared but for a while. And the rest of the society dressed and behaved as usual.
      1. +12
        9 August 2022 08: 00
        Not a legislator, but a repeater

        China "copy-paste" the most famous (or timely handy) foreign samples. Aircraft carrier "Type 002" - a repetition of the "Varyag". Amphibious transports with a docking chamber "Type 071" - the idea was "peeped" overseas (LPD of the "San Antonio" type). As a standard for the creation of the destroyer was chosen, who would doubt, "Arleigh Burke".

        In other words, the 10 ton "cruiser of the future" is made in the image and likeness of a 000 ton destroyer born at the end of the Cold War.

        The layout of the "Berkov" was dictated by necessity. 4 fixed radar antennas, which had a diameter of about 4 meters. Such large headlights required a strong and rigid foundation. Light mast structures could not hold such antennas.

        The limited displacement also prevented the construction of towers over the superstructure. The only way out was to place the antennas on the walls of the superstructure, 10 meters above the water.

        The Chinese moved the solution to their project!

        And so on. Appearance, layout, placement of antennas and weapons. Those who are unfamiliar with the details will not distinguish the Chinese cruiser from the Japanese Atago of the 2005 model (licensed Burke with a higher superstructure)

        1. -4
          9 August 2022 08: 11
          I suggest that you compare all jets and rockets with the products of the Germans in World War II

          Compare all boats, with Indian canoes, they are not fundamentally different.

          No one has surpassed the existing laws of physics.
          1. +8
            9 August 2022 08: 36
            No one has surpassed the existing laws of physics.

            It wasn't about physics. It's about layout.

            Examples of a completely different layout are European ships Type45, Horizont, FREMM, German F124. With more optimal allocation of funds, and devoid of the shortcomings of the 40-year-old Burke project

            The Chinese had 10 displacement in reserve, but they could not give birth to anything promising

            I suggest that you compare all jets and rockets with the products of the Germans in the Second World War.

            So yes, no one now uses a scheme on fighters with the placement of engines in engine nacelles under the wing. The scheme turned out to be suboptimal and almost immediately everyone abandoned it.
            1. -7
              9 August 2022 08: 47
              It's about layout.


              What an amazing reason!

              Well, a poet. Every unique birch can be found in the forest

              But only the Chinese birch is similar either to this birch or to that one.
            2. -1
              9 August 2022 09: 33
              Examples of a completely different layout are European ships Type45, Horizont, FREMM, German F124. With more optimal allocation of funds, and devoid of the shortcomings of the 40-year-old Burke project


              This is because their phased array radars are small and light enough to be placed at the very top. Therefore, their radars are not as good as Arleigh Burke and Chinese radars in terms of detection range and multi-target tracking due to the radar aperture which is determined by physics.

              I suggest you take the time to learn the very basics of high school physics, such as radar detection distance, and find out the radar antenna aperture from the formula, weight.

              Well, congratulations, you have learned about the different layout options. So, please tell us who copied whom from the warships you gave as an example?

              I'm really ashamed of your cultural level.
              1. +4
                9 August 2022 10: 11
                This is because their phased array radars are small and light enough to be placed at the very top. Therefore, their radars are not as good as Arleigh Burke radars and Chinese radars,

                The Europeans have 2 specialized radars - one at the very top (low-flying targets), the second in the stern (long-range vision, provides missile defense functions - the Europeans are ready to deploy SM-3 transatmospheric interceptors) - at the place where Arleigh Burke has a stern launcher for 60 UVP . With limited displacement, you have to choose - high-quality radar or weapons

                The Chinese has twice the displacement, in the end it turned out neither fish nor meat

                About the performance itself. The Chinese radar is inferior to Western counterparts, its appearance was spotted and photographed at the time of the construction of the cruiser. It is only externally a one-piece radar, under the casing it is a set of three APM arrays. The Chinese did not succeed in creating a full-fledged multifunctional radar, there solutions are at the level of the radar of the Patriot complex
                1. -1
                  9 August 2022 10: 21
                  China successfully establishes an air defense identification zone and shoots down Japanese fighters. For decades, it has been playing electronic warfare games with the Americans on a daily basis, attacking American ships in the South China Sea.

                  Can this be done with an outdated radar? If you lack the knowledge, you should look into why American and Chinese radars are only placed inside buildings and not mounted on rooftops. Knowing their physical properties, that is, thanks to the so-called 30-year-old technology? Instead of talking all day like an illiterate person.
                2. -2
                  9 August 2022 10: 27
                  Just look at the next generation of US destroyers, DDG(X), originally scheduled for 2028, how similar they are to the 055.

                  Are you going to use copy to say Americans or are you saying Americans continue to use 30 year old technology? Not as good as in Europe
                  1. +4
                    9 August 2022 10: 40
                    how similar they are to 055.

                    They don't look like anything

                    Can't you see that they changed the layout, lowered the navigation bridge to the lower levels, put the radar higher. They still have one, instead of SPY-1, the even heavier SPY-6. And the displacement is still limited - DDG (X) is 2-3 thousand tons less than the Chinese, according to various sources

                    At the same time, the Yankees are not going to give up powerful weapons, at least 100 UVP - the feed is busy, the European scheme does not suit them
              2. +3
                9 August 2022 10: 28
                who copied whom from the warships that you cited as an example?

                No one copied, they were all born at about the same time. The two main variants are British/French (SAMPSON + S1850) and Nordic (APAR + S1850). Both schemes use the same long-range station. Against low-flying - or SAMPSON - a pair of AFAR arrays with mechanical rotation, or APAR with four fixed antennas

                Luxurious complexes: correctly selected range, high resolution, active phased arrays, high antenna post installation height. APAR is able to illuminate dozens of targets for anti-aircraft missiles. SAMSON does not need this - he works in conjunction with Aster missiles, which have active guidance

                The Indians chose for themselves the scheme with APAR (destroyers Calcutta, Type 015A), although their long-range radar is quite old, there was not enough money to buy the S1850. But they are much more important than radar against low-flying missiles. And this is not copy-paste, they immediately planned to order radars in Germany - to work in tandem with the Israeli Barak-8 air defense system
                1. -6
                  9 August 2022 12: 58
                  Do not copy these buzzwords, this is not relevant to the topic.

                  You don't even know that an antenna is a grid with a size of 10m*2,5m*2,6m and a weight of 10 tons, there are 4 of these antennas, calculate for yourself if you can place this massive thing on a high mast.

                  Of course, you will say that the reason why Chinese and American made antennas are so big is because of thirty years of backward technology.
                  1. 0
                    10 August 2022 18: 39
                    Quote: Liao
                    a grid with a size of 10m * 2,5m * 2,6m and a weight of 10 tons, there are 4 such antennas, calculate for yourself whether you can place this massive thing on a high mast.

                    Take a closer look at the sketch of a promising American destroyer you cited - it just solved the problem of placing heavy canvases as high as possible - in order to increase the detection range of anti-ship missiles at extremely low altitude. On the Burks, this was a problem. After all, any air defense specialist will confirm to you that the earlier anti-ship missiles are detected in WWI, the more time the anti-aircraft crew has to react. And this is just solved by the maximum possible elevation of the radar above the surface. In the new US destroyer, this was achieved by lowering the bridge in the conning tower and installing radar sheets above it. A very harmonious solution.
                    And as for who copied what from whom, then in military affairs, borrowing the most successful decisions has always been. 055 looks like a completely harmonious ship in terms of layout, although some elements could have been executed differently. Sufficient displacement to accommodate all the necessary weapons systems and sufficient ammunition. In addition, during the construction of the series, changes and improvements to the project are possible, as well as changes in the course of future very likely upgrades.
                    We do not have complete data on the combat capabilities and characteristics of its weapons systems, but as a combat platform for such systems, it looks quite convincing.
                    I was somewhat surprised by the electric transmission on the 055, because despite its obvious convenience and low noise, it turned out to be very uneconomical - double torque conversion leads to large power losses. That is why such powerful gas turbines are installed on the 055 (if memory has not changed - 4 x 35 l / s). Although with a mechanical transmission of the KM to such a ship, four gas turbines with a capacity of 000 - 25 l / s would be enough.
                    I don’t know why it’s either “the price doesn’t matter”, or ... problems with creating running gears of this class. And if the latter, then the electric transmission is quite a way out, and with a number of pleasant options - low noise, an excess of email. energy on board and ... unification . After all, exactly the same gas turbines and electric propulsion are implemented on aircraft carriers and per type. 052D. And if fuel consumption does not press at the cost of expenses, then ... this is a very interesting solution.
          2. +6
            9 August 2022 09: 28
            As I remember, innovative ships at all times were designed either for specific weapons, some kind of cunning mechanism (gun turrets with huge guns, a steam engine, or a huge radar like the Berks) and, accordingly, a recognizable appearance of the ship appeared, which was then replicated by the shipbuilder of the world. Ticonderoga is a role model, and 055 is his interpretation, because he doesn’t have anything innovative, Ticonderoga is not inferior to him, it’s just a little expensive, so Orlik appeared. For the Chinese Navy, this is a real achievement, but it is not an object to follow.
            1. +5
              9 August 2022 09: 47
              Arleigh Burke - on how to fit in a 6600 standard V/I - one surveillance radar and 90 UVP. In this case, his scheme is the choice of the best of evils, the creators diddged and found a compromise solution

              European Saxony / Daring / Horizon - how to fit two multifunctional radars into 5000-6000 thousand tons at once, placing one of them at a height of 30 meters. And saving room for 40 UVP

              Chinese Type 055 - 10 tons spent for who knows what. With such dimensions - why does he need Burke's compromise scheme. On the contrary, a superstructure that is too large "devours" useful load reserves, and it can no longer grow upwards like Europeans. On European ships, a squat main superstructure - and above there is a tower-like structure with antenna posts

              PS / similar in size to Burke Ticonderoga had two surveillance radars and 120 UVP - the consequences of the presence of an aluminum superstructure (Burke has steel). Compromises, compromises...

              PPS / Chinese of course - created under the comprehensive influence of Burke. Zero fresh ideas, plus the execution is lame. Its radar only looks like a berk, inside it contains antediluvian solutions, examples of which can be seen in the Patriot air defense radar with an admixture of 2020 technologies
              1. -1
                10 August 2022 04: 29
                Stop your ignorant rhetoric

                This is a simplified version of the special air defense ship to save money. And it is not a symbol of something ultramodern.

                The fundamental law of physics says that the product of aperture and power is the basis and that it is better to be large than small.

                A wealthy fleet would not use a poor European version of the Aegis. It's not that China doesn't have the same design, but we're not so primitive as to use a castrated version of the Type 45.

                Our small 20 ton boats can be fitted with miniature XNUMX-way antennas


        2. +4
          9 August 2022 20: 11
          Quote: Santa Fe
          Not a legislator, but a repeater

          China "copy-paste" the most famous (or timely handy) foreign samples

          We should copy-paste like that, otherwise there are only "no analogues", but as a SVO, we uncover mosquitoes for the allies and fight with battalions of 350 bayonets with D-30s.
        3. +1
          10 August 2022 17: 53
          Quote: Santa Fe
          As a standard for the creation of the destroyer was chosen, who would doubt, "Arleigh Burke".

          Quote: Santa Fe
          Those who are unfamiliar with the details will not distinguish the Chinese cruiser from the Japanese Atago of the 2005 model (licensed Burke with a higher superstructure)

          And the contours of the forecastle look like "Gorshkov".
          This is a compilation of successful solutions for your needs.
          To take an example or, all the more so, to consider 055 a trendsetter, these are different things. All ships of this class and this generation are similar to each other.
          If we ever build ships (and not talk about plans and fantasies), then going up in displacement and class, we see the following sequence:
          - frigates - 22350\22350.1,
          - frigate destroyers (really - classic destroyers in everything) - 22350M. 64 cells in the 8th UKKS on the tank, cells of the UVP ZUR ZRK "Redut" on the tank and waist. GEM - gas-turbo couples on the M70FRU (marching 14 l / s) and M000FR (afterburning 90 l / s) - the main ship of the DM and OZ;
          - destroyer / cruiser on the power plant of 4 gas turbines M90FR (27 l / s x 500 \u4d 110 l / s), the development of the same architecture as 000M, but in VI 22350 - 12 tons. On the tank there are 000 cells in the 15th UKKS for strike weapons and a UVP block of the Redut air defense system, a cannon. On the waist there are 000 cells in 80 UKKS for heavy (long-range) missiles ("Fort-10" S-64, RLC - 8 AFAR canvases based on the MFRLS from the S-2 air defense system), and PLUR. SAM BD "Pantsir-M" 400 pcs. (placement scheme - one on the forecastle and two side by side on the waist). Torpedoes "Package-NK" in 4 ports 500 x 3 on board. Preferably in normal TAs with the ability to quickly reload, or with the ability to quickly reload with a block (4 TPKs in each). Two helicopters, as on 2M.
          And these types will be more than enough for DM and OZ, as actual warships. And all on exclusively domestic and available components and systems.
          Just apply will, mind and WORK.
          But with these - the last three components, we have request full ... very full fur-bearing animal from the fox family.
          And if it seems to someone that the destroyer / cruiser VI 12 000 - 15 000 tons proposed by me resembles the Chinese 055, then I will reassure - I spoke out for a ship of such architecture and such a VI 8 - 10 years ago, when issues of development of the project were discussed. 22350, and was offered as a cheaper and more harmonious alternative to the atomic "Leader" (not mentioned by night).
          The only problem for the construction of the Fleet in today's conditions are the power plants. Or rather, gearboxes for them, because the turbines themselves can already do it. This is where you should focus your attention.
          And if the Nikolaev Zarya-Mashproekt were at our disposal, then GENERALLY we would have no barriers to the construction of a full-fledged Fleet, because the Zarya is one of the flagships of the world military marine engine building!
          And just don’t talk about money - money in the country - fill up. Especially after the abolition of the enslaving "Budget Rule", and after the decision to pre-monetize the Russian economy to ... so far 70% and the available 40% (at a rate of 100% of GDP). This additional monetization can be partially launched just through the program for the development of domestic military shipbuilding - this way the money will quickly flow into the economy and revive it.

          But for all this it is necessary to have WILL.
          And Strategic State Goal Setting.
          Than having power request alas, it does not.
          IT'S A PITY .
      2. +2
        9 August 2022 22: 34
        The leader of the Redskins:

        — With all due respect, dudes were in the world of fashion and Western standards of freedom - legislators. After them there was no return to the old norms.

        - Russia would have problems like the non-optimality of the 055th.

        - Envy is better in silence.
        1. 0
          9 August 2022 22: 54
          There was no "dude" movement in the west at that time. There were separate copies from show business.
  2. +7
    9 August 2022 05: 29
    It is difficult to expect from a person who lumps together classes, types and "families" of ships of high-quality material on naval topics. So I didn't wait.
    1. +8
      9 August 2022 05: 33
      Me and John Trevithick, known for his sober views on ships,
      Salty Shpakovsky?
      1. +2
        9 August 2022 05: 36
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Salty Shpakovsky?

        Vyacheslav does not get into analytics, definitely into the sea.
        1. +8
          9 August 2022 05: 47
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Vyacheslav does not get into analytics, definitely into the sea.

          And who said that climbs? It’s just that Shpakovsky boasted so enthusiastically about his connections with English historians ... request
          1. +7
            9 August 2022 06: 41
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            It’s just that Shpakovsky boasted so enthusiastically about his connections with English historians ...

            And, you are talking about this .. I would even say that I was puffed up.
        2. +2
          9 August 2022 05: 49
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Vyacheslav does not get into analytics, definitely into the sea.

          Oh well, what the hell ... One of Shpakovsky's first articles was about ships, if sclerosis didn't confuse me.
          1. 0
            9 August 2022 06: 41
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Oh well, what the hell ... One of Shpakovsky's first articles was about ships, if sclerosis didn't confuse me.
            Given the age of Shpakovsky, your comment is irrelevant. laughing
    2. +7
      9 August 2022 05: 40
      Be that as it may, the Chinese Navy is developing by leaps and bounds, and if there are no surprises, it may well leave the United States far behind both in terms of the quantity and quality of its seafarers.
      1. +5
        9 August 2022 06: 12
        Yes, that is why China needs to conduct more military exercises in peacetime if these exercises annoy our neighbors. Then active escort to the Gulf of Aden, which we constantly use to check the quality of our warships and train our soldiers.
      2. +1
        10 August 2022 21: 14
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Whatever it was, the Chinese Navy is developing by leaps and bounds

        Yes This is true . In a year, it builds in total displacement 4 times more than the United States.
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        may well leave the US far behind

        This is only possible very soon. And here it’s not enough just the total tonnage of the fleet or the number of pennants, the quality of these pennants, the quality of their weapons, combat training and fusion of l / s and experienced naval commanders are important.
        And in all this, China will chase the United States for another 15 years.
        But the United States and allies are full, who also have fleets.
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        and if there are no surprises

        lol But now there will be a LOT of this goodness. And these surprises will be very different. The Anglo-Saxons traditionally perceive any state building an ocean fleet as a challenge and a reason to act.
        At the turn of the 19th-20th centuries. RI started building a large fleet and claimed its rights to the Far East ... There was a Big Game ... And how did this challenge end?
        They didn’t have time to build / complete the fleet, for the Republic of Ingushetia in the Far East a combatant was prepared, who at that very moment was able to ... defeat our fleet. And inflicted this defeat! Both at sea and on land - capturing Korea, the Liaodong Peninsula and part of Manchuria ... After that war, the Republic of Ingushetia did not have a fleet.
        Germany announced its maritime (and overseas) ambitions next. And she also began to build a large fleet ... And she almost built ... But the WWI, which began for the sake of this, put everything in its place, and the Battle of Jutland showed whose fleet is stronger.
        The German fleet was good, good for everyone ... but not enough.
        Germany did not have such a level of fleet anymore. And WWII is an example of this.
        In WWII, Japan already challenged the sea ... and lost, and then the United States took the baton of confrontation from the Anglo-Saxons.
        The USSR in the post-war period also built a large fleet ... but the reason for abandoning ambitions was no longer from a military defeat, but from the surrender and betrayal of the "elites".
        Now the challenge has come from China.
        Do you really think that there will be no "surprises"? lol
        They've already started Yes and the flight of the old witch to Formosa (Taiwan), which was called the "Ride of the Valkyrie" gave a countdown to such surprises.
        China still has 6 such (055) ships in service and 10 in varying degrees of construction / completion.
        TOTAL !
        Yes, there are also type destroyers. 052D, of which 24 were built. - they served as a prologue to the type. 055, a kind of "Burke on the minimum wage", a test of the pen before something big.
        And that’s it. request Of the destroyers of the modern type, only these 30 pieces. (6 + 24) . And the United States has more than a hundred ships of the cruiser / destroyer class.
        And the quality / combat capabilities of American ships are much higher.
        And aircraft carriers ... more.
        And this is not counting the submarine fleet, where the US advantage is overwhelming.
        And if you look together with the allies?

        China is an economic colossus.
        But not military.
        Till .
        And especially not at sea.
        And the war with him (even economic) will be precisely at sea - for water areas and sea communications, access to markets and raw materials.
        And at sea, China will not be able to challenge the US coalition for quite a long time (10-15 years). Rather, the United States itself. For if you look at the relationship with the coalition, then China will need 20-25 years of such a race.
        If nothing or no one gets in the way.
        And they WILL interfere.
        Already.
        Why do you think the witch flew to Formosa?
        Humiliate China?
        Show figure?
        Or to make him act EXACTLY the way he now does?
        For what ?
        FOR THE REASON.
        1. -1
          11 August 2022 04: 28
          We never wanted to compete with the Americans at sea. After our humiliation in 1996, our goal now is to make it impossible for the US Navy to exist within 2000 nautical miles of China. Taiwanese officials have uncovered private conversations with Americans who say: "You so want our aircraft carriers to help you, but you know that if an aircraft carrier is sunk by China with more than 5 US troops on board, it will be Pearl Harbor + 000 /9" and no politician can take that risk."
          1. +1
            11 August 2022 14: 55
            Quote: Liao
            After our humiliation in 1996, our goal now is to make it impossible for the US Navy to exist within 2000 nautical miles of China.

            And this is a true doctrine, because one goes by steps towards a big / lofty goal. And you still have to go this way.
            And it is true that the US does not currently seek an immediate escalation with China.
            But.
            Why did the Old Witch fly to Formosa?
            Provoke a war?
            Not .
            For she herself has already said that the United States supports the idea of ​​​​a united China, that China is a "mighty democracy" and it was precisely this democracy that she strengthened there. lol
            But what is the true purpose of such somersaults?
            Making China ACT - here and now, responding to the challenge.
            And China began to act. soldier angry And the teachings gradually become indefinite...
            Now let's look at the "hands".
            Behind the hands of Joe Biden (and who else is there to lead hands?).
            And Biden said that in view of the beginning of China's indefinite exercises and the threat of seizing Taiwan, he ordered ... (drumroll) ... to transfer the production of chips and other radio components TO THE US TERRITORY.
            After all, before the producers did not want to do this in any way. And who wants to, when you have a well-established production, practically a global monopoly, convenient sales markets and industrial cooperation, trained personnel ... But the Witch flew in and ... everything went as it should. what
            How the US should. bully
            But of course, the matter is not limited to chips alone. Already, American and European companies are withdrawing their production from China or are looking for convenient places for this (Vietnam, India, Southeast Asian countries, or simply in the USA - like with chips).
            And for China, it will not just be the withdrawal of foreign companies, but also the loss of markets.
            And the talk that in the event that China seizes Taiwan, all production facilities and equipment for the production of chips will be destroyed and mined for this, have been going on more and more stubbornly lately.
            And the more actively China conducts exercises and demonstrates its readiness to return Taiwan to its Home Harbor, the better it will create conditions for the export of highly qualified specialists, technical documentation and technical processes, and possibly equipment, to new production sites.
            That's what the Old Witch flew to Formosa for - to start all these processes.
            And when China does return its island to itself, such a universal horror will be inflated from this ... and of course sanctions will be piled up - like Iran or Russia.
            And they will restart the economy.
            Do you need cheap labor and labor competition to restart the economy? smile
            And why is the economic and financial crisis inflated now? wink For this . Yes
            So that the Americans are again ready to work "for food".
            And that they fought for this right.
            ... In any case , such are their fantasies .
            But they don't want the Chinese to take Formosa right now. They would have to pull the cat by the tail, while everything is scrambled.
        2. 0
          7 October 2022 17: 49
          I agree with you on this issue, given that the Chinese Navy has no combat experience. If I'm not mistaken, they fought at sea with the Japanese at the end of the 19th century.
        3. 0
          8 January 2023 19: 36
          You are right that they will not sit still, they will not allow serious competition and the sea. But with the fact that they will lose .... I'm not sure for one simple reason. In all the examples you listed, the losing country was losing because ... it lagged behind in the economy. See for yourself:

          1. The Russo-Japanese War - we still have an agrarian economy and poor logistics to the distant far east. Japan, on the other hand, is on an economic upswing with active help from Britain and the United States.

          2. WWI - Germany and Austria-Hungary have limited resources due to the lack of large sources of overseas raw materials (few or no colonies) and poor transport infrastructure for the export of a few raw materials from a few colonies. And in England and France, the economy feeds on raw materials without any problems from a long-established system of pumping and production of resources in the colonies and cities in the industrial centers of the country.

          3. WWII - Japan built a fleet but throughout its short history, suffered from a shortage of oil. In the country itself, there have always been problems of the lack of a sufficiently large number of industrial resources. And in the colonies of Japan (Korea and China), there were often difficulties in developing large-scale production due to partisans, the weakness of the infrastructure itself, and late construction.

          4. The Cold War - well, it seems like it should have been completely clear. What exactly did our traitors do? First of all, they are the economic mechanism of the USSR. Recreated the shortage of resources and the crisis. And now, on this basis, the USSR collapsed.

          But with China, the problem is because it is one of the two leaders in the world in terms of economy. And in production - the first. And the biggest problem is that Western countries themselves, including the United States, have been tuned in and reoriented towards the Chinese economy for many years. If the USSR was the second economy in the world, but this economy worked for the USSR itself and the socialist countries. Blok. That is why the state of our economy did not affect their economy in any way. But the Chinese economy directly affects the Western economy. Excuse me, but a large% of the products NECESSARY for the US and European economy are produced in China, or tied to its resources. This means that it will not be possible to repeat how with the USSR. But if everything comes to power, then the economies of the United States and Europe will immediately feel a strong fall.
    3. +2
      9 August 2022 06: 27
      China has Formosa rights due to the Japanese occupation of Taiwan, 130 years.
      The Yapis themselves can decide from what year those "100 years of shame" will go
  3. +5
    9 August 2022 05: 38
    Why are we all looking at China, Iraq, the USA ... what is the symbol of our modern fleet? Ships of the river-sea class, and those are a teaspoon a decade.
    1. +2
      9 August 2022 05: 56
      Sadness, of course ... but Russia traditionally solves the main tasks in the land theater of operations, and not at sea ... these are the realities.
      Accordingly, more of the country's resources are not going to sailors.
      1. +2
        9 August 2022 06: 01
        Kaneshna kanesh at sea, we have nothing to do, because everything is mainly decided on land theaters, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, infantry fighting vehicles we don’t need old ones, a lot of them just modernize, they don’t modernize because why spend money on junk, why are we releasing Su-57 with whom We are going to fight, and so on. And most importantly, there is no money.
        Tired of these explanations.
        1. -1
          9 August 2022 06: 35
          I sympathize... hi
          write about it in your letter to the GDP ...
          about money, junk, SU-57, annoying explanations ... maybe he will patiently listen to you and do as you wish.
          1. -2
            9 August 2022 14: 36
            And why did the people not like your comment, what are they minus? Chel, a comment above, threw a tantrum out of business and out of place IMHO, but he is being plused. I do not understand. All such admiral generals, I don’t know where to go.
          2. +1
            11 August 2022 07: 52
            Are you a helper, explainer why this is not done?
        2. -1
          9 August 2022 11: 14
          And most importantly, there is no money.

          Yes, lots of money!

          If we take away only half of the pension fund, we will be able to allocate 4,5 trillion annually to the development of the army and especially the navy!...
          1. 0
            11 August 2022 07: 56
            To start for the development of industry. Why don't they build big ships? Where to build them? For how many years they have been trying to modernize Kuzya, they will soon rot near the wall. There is no dock, they seem to have done it, though the gates to it and the pumps still cannot either be made or delivered.
  4. +6
    9 August 2022 05: 39
    True, the Italians did not provide any evidence, so taking it on faith or not is up to everyone who reads it.


    But Pakistani officials claim the opposite of what this journalist claims, saying that the Chinese-built F-22P frigates are the backbone of the Pakistani Navy, and that they subsequently ordered more modern 054AP frigates from China.

    There is, however, one minus in comparison with world analogues. The imagery lacks the long-range antenna domes found on warships. The images show small satellite communications antennas, which suggests that Chinese ships are not planned to conduct operations at significant distances from their communications, where long-range communication is required.


    The most significant feature of the 055 is the integration of various types of radar antennas and detectors on the integrated main mast, such as the JIDS system, the integrated data transmission system, and the broadband high-speed data transmission system. Its communication capabilities are so powerful that no one is going to build the biggest ship and then fly missions in their home waters.
    1. +1
      9 August 2022 08: 39
      integration of various types of radar antennas and detectors on the integrated main mast, such as JIDS system, integrated data transmission system and broadband high-speed data transmission system.

      this has nothing to do with long-range antennas. How will they provide radio communications for a couple of thousand kilometers? Special antennas are needed, but it is claimed that they are not on the ship. There is satellite communication, but there is no backup communication channel.
      1. +2
        9 August 2022 12: 34
        At the top of the mast is the integration of communication and anti-communication antennas


        A very interesting feature that the Americans have not yet figured out is the square antennas installed along the edge of the upper part of the Nanchang bridge.


        The S-band phased array radar used on the 055 is referred to by the foreign press as Type 346B and notes that it is significantly larger than the Type 346A radar on the 052D (green arrow), which means that the operational range has increased, and therefore, accordingly the range of enemy identification by IFF has also increased, so the long antennas (red arrows) above the four bars have also become much larger.

      2. 0
        9 August 2022 13: 05
        Integration of communication and anti-communication antennas (1 in the diagram)

          For example, the communication antenna and the communication meter antenna, both have broadband and omnidirectional working requirements, and the antenna gain is similar, and both will be in the receiving state for a long time, the first is listening, the second is following intelligence, if the communication equipment needs to send a letter, the equipment meter should automatically stop working according to the situation, in order to avoid mutual interference, if the meter equipment detects a threat and must respond, the command system should stop communication according to the situation, or automatically organize other communication methods. If the countermeasure detects a threat and needs to respond, the command system should cut off communication according to the situation or automatically organize other communication methods.

          Therefore, the integration must be based on a high degree of automation of the command system, since the reaction speed is much higher than human limits, and at the same time, all types of sensory information from the ship must be collected in one place for merging, thus forming a complete situational picture on which it is based automation.
  5. -9
    9 August 2022 05: 41
    If the manufacturing quality of the ship itself and its minced meat is still the same Chinese quality glorious throughout the world, then it is better not to take it as a role model.
    1. +3
      9 August 2022 06: 18
      I think you don't have a job, or you spend your salary on vodka.

      The Americans do not think so, look how they are trying to destroy Chinese companies, even taking hostages.

      We are very proud that the Americans are so irritated because we know that the Americans will not sanction us because of your Chinese leather shoes that show your toes.
      1. +1
        9 August 2022 06: 46
        Quote: Liao
        I think you don't have a job, or you spend your salary on vodka.

        The Americans do not think so, look how they are trying to destroy Chinese companies, even taking hostages.

        Nagan, actually, is an American.
        1. +5
          9 August 2022 07: 05
          Nagan, actually, is an American.

          The brothers Emil and Henri-Leon Nagant are actually Belgians.
          1. +1
            9 August 2022 07: 14
            I'm talking about a forum member with the nickname "Nagan".
        2. -5
          9 August 2022 07: 20
          Understand, he's going to save his job as an amateur programmer. facebook is downsizing, and all amateur programmers are worried about the impending internet winter. More than ever, he needs low-quality Chinese-made socks and plastic Christmas trees.
          1. +2
            9 August 2022 11: 55
            Quote: Liao
            More than ever, he needs low-quality Chinese-made socks and plastic Christmas trees.

            I'm afraid that with a revolver under the pillow and with a light around the corner, Nagan lives much better than many Russians with an average income of 17 thousand.
  6. +24
    9 August 2022 05: 44
    We with John Trevithick, known for his sober views on ships, will try to look at the new Chinese destroyer from the point of view of American competitors.

    This text is a castrated machine translation of the article Our Most Detailed Look Yet At China's Type 055 Super Destroyer (author Joseph Trevitik), whom Skomorokhov for some reason renamed John.

    Roman, you would give yourself the trouble to "comb" the text obtained as a result of machine translation at least a little, otherwise it hurts the eye. Readers need to be respected, and not proceed from the fact that they are already "grabbing".
    1. kig
      +1
      9 August 2022 07: 39
      Quote: Comrade
      castrated machine translation of the article
      - it is clear that the article was at least viewed. The number of photos is reduced, and the quality is worse ... re-shot from the screen, or what? A boxy antenna - in translation, it is, of course, square, but in no way in shape.
    2. +5
      9 August 2022 15: 31
      Quote: Comrade
      This text is a castrated machine translation of the article Our Most Detailed Look Yet At China's Type 055 Super Destroyer (author Joseph Trevithick), whom Skomorokhov for some reason renamed John.

      Yep... just an appearance of the bridge on the destroyer it gives out a machine translation with a head. smile
      A very interesting feature that the Americans have not yet figured out is the square antennas installed along the edge of the upper part of the Nanchang bridge.
  7. +1
    9 August 2022 06: 00
    either a cruiser or a destroyer

    In my opinion, with the development of technology, the concepts of "destroyer" and "cruiser" have been somewhat erased. Somehow it is necessary to name modern ships, but the old names have remained ... Maybe the sailors will correct me?
    1. +1
      9 August 2022 07: 25
      I'm not special. But you are absolutely right. The concept of where the destroyer ends and the cruiser begins has been erased. It's all the fault of the Japanese.
      1. +1
        9 August 2022 09: 43
        the Japanese are bastards, they don’t respect classification at all .... bully
      2. ada
        +2
        9 August 2022 15: 58
        These are different ways of classification. The destroyer (destroyer) - on the main armament (torpedo (torpedo - self-propelled mine)) and the method of its use, building the battle formation of ships, the cruiser - on the method of fighting enemy ships and ships in isolation from their main forces (cruising - crossing routes, search , yaw in variable courses, from the word cross in foreign languages), mainly on transport communications.
    2. -3
      9 August 2022 09: 24
      Our Destroyer is weaker and smaller than the Cruiser. And in their minds Destroyer is the Destroyer and it is more powerful than the Cruiser. Strange as it may seem, the Star Wars saga, where Star Destroyers are the most powerful ships, has become a change in association from a destroyer to a destroyer.
      1. +1
        9 August 2022 10: 50
        Quote: Yorgven
        Our Destroyer is weaker and smaller than the Cruiser. And in their minds Destroyer is the Destroyer and it is more powerful than the Cruiser

        At all times, and in ours too, the destroyer in all the fleets of the world in the "table of ranks" has always stood below the cruiser. And I would translate Destroyer as a Fighter - this is more in line with its purpose (similar to fighters in the Air Force)
  8. Eug
    +1
    9 August 2022 06: 19
    As far as I know, in Russia the emergence of "multi-cell" PUs was hindered by the customer's requirement to provide access to each cell not only through the cover. And explain, please, why make "hot" launch ship-based missiles? I understand the Strategic Missile Forces BR, where there are no critical restrictions on the size of launchers, but on a ship ... even on submarines for relatively heavy (compared to PLUR, SAM and anti-ship missiles) BRs seem to be
    using cold start...
    1. -1
      9 August 2022 06: 31
      Quote: Eug
      And explain, please, why make "hot" launch ship-based missiles?

      I can assume that a "hot start" is done in order to prevent a rocket from falling onto a ship in the event of a main engine failure
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. STD
        +1
        9 August 2022 08: 33
        To prevent missiles from falling onto the deck during a cold start, there are a number of measures that will start the rocket engine with a very high probability, and even if it does not start, the rocket will flop overboard. Most likely, the issue is the mass of the rocket, which complicates the cold start.
      3. +5
        9 August 2022 08: 37
        hot start" is done in order to prevent the rocket from falling onto the ship in the event of a main engine failure

        not a fact. If something happens during a "hot start", it can explode inside the launcher. It is not known which is worse: an explosion inside or a rocket falling outside.
        1. -1
          9 August 2022 09: 08
          Quote from std
          a series of measures that will start the rocket engine, and even if it doesn’t, the rocket will flop overboard

          1. And if these same "series of measures" do not work?
          2. And if there is another ship behind this very "board"?

          Quote: glory1974
          If something happens during a "hot start", it can explode inside the launcher

          Well, it must be assumed that the ship's mini-mine must somehow be protected ...
  9. +11
    9 August 2022 06: 26
    A country with a large and strong fleet can afford the luxury of calling a cruiser a destroyer. Countries that want to have such a fleet, but do not have the opportunity, have the opposite trend: frigates are called destroyers, corvettes are called frigates. Any launched boat is celebrated with great pomp and is also called by its own name, instead of being given an ordinary number.
    1. +1
      11 August 2022 08: 18
      Yes, type - Frigate of the first rank, the shell has 4.5k vee. Who would have thought that such a term would appear in our fleet - but all naval officers want ranks and length of service, nothing personal ...
  10. -2
    9 August 2022 07: 22
    Skomorokhov finally gave birth to a normal article.
    Thanks, it was interesting.
  11. +2
    9 August 2022 07: 24
    "Atlant" is a highly specialized ship with limited capabilities ... You can say - "one-time" ...
  12. -1
    9 August 2022 07: 59
    Well, what is the fundamental difference from Burks?
    1. +2
      9 August 2022 09: 37
      Any modern aircraft is a platform for ASP.
      A modern helicopter is a platform for ASP.
      A modern destroyer-cruiser is a platform for the PCB.

      Burke has KSP - axes, standards and ABM Standards.
      055 has Chinese calibers, the YJ-21 hypersound was recently launched, various air defense / missile defense missiles that took DNA from both the Standard and the S-300F / PMU / S400 at the same time.

      You can even take Sizhon (the most heavily armed destroyer in the world) to the heap - Korean ax calibers, standards, anti-ship missiles with a 2M final section.
  13. 0
    9 August 2022 08: 11
    Quote: Amateur
    Nagan, actually, is an American.

    The brothers Emil and Henri-Leon Nagant are actually Belgians.

    Actually Walloons :)
  14. -4
    9 August 2022 09: 31
    At the time of the collapse of the union, our fleet successfully competed with the American one and was no worse than theirs in terms of equipment and modernity. While the Americans were triumphant, and we were squandering the country, China began to rise rapidly in all respects, both in the economy and in the field of security, and they are still lagging behind the United States, but so far, but in many cases they have caught up with us and in some cases have surpassed us. I think in ten years they will be far ahead of the United States in the economy, and in the military sphere they will equalize or even surpass the United States. As for us, instead of the navy or the same aircraft, our leadership preferred cosmetic repairs and modernization, instead of building new modern types of weapons, and sent the country's resources for personal enrichment and the purchase of modern yachts. Count how many oligarchs and friends of our leader we have, everyone has yachts and more than one, at a cost equivalent to the cost of a warship
    1. -6
      9 August 2022 11: 16
      instead of building new modern types of weapons, the country's resources were sent for personal enrichment and the purchase of modern yachts. Count how many oligarchs and friends of our leader we have, everyone has yachts and more than one, at a cost equivalent to the cost of a warship

      It's good to poison stories ...
      Honestly - I'm tired of these children's "nakidons" ...
      bully
      1. +3
        9 August 2022 14: 20
        That is, this is a bike, Alisher Usmanov's yacht?
        Cool.
        1. 0
          9 August 2022 14: 23
          That is, this is a bike, Alisher Usmanov's yacht?
          No...
  15. 0
    9 August 2022 10: 00
    the Chinese made a normal steamship, but what is it called a destroyer or a cruiser are already details, in fact it is an attack ship or otherwise a destroyer ...
  16. +1
    9 August 2022 11: 30
    It's a useless comparison to the Arleigh Burks and Our Atlanteans.
    Well done Chinese, with their program for the construction and speed of delivery of ships, ahead of the rest!
    To compare with our 22350M, it still needs to be built. Everything is vague, only the boathouse, they plan to commission this project in 2024, there is no certainty that the date will not be postponed. Boathouse for two buildings. We have a displacement of 8000, but judging by the project, the armament is better. The Americans are frozen on their Arleigh Burke, with constant modernization, and their new frigate project does not pull with these ships.
    1. +7
      9 August 2022 12: 09
      Well done Chinese, with their program for the construction and speed of delivery of ships, ahead of the rest!

      You are mistaken, in terms of the pace of shipbuilding, the United States is ahead of China

      In the next decade, China plans to build only 16 such cruisers, staff members - 20 Arly Berkov, to the already existing 70+, not counting the promising DDG (X) destroyers, whose laying is scheduled for the end of 2020x

      And these are not just plans on paper, for example, out of the 20 planned Berks, they have already managed to lay 7, another 1 on sea trials
  17. +1
    9 August 2022 12: 09
    Buy something sensible from them, because it is clear that USC is a hopeless impotent
  18. +1
    9 August 2022 12: 15
    Here in the comments, one person recalled one important truth - the innovativeness of ships has always come from the creation of a ship around some kind of new mechanism / system / weapon. And this, in turn, influenced the layout and, accordingly, the appearance of the vessel. The latest interpretation of current directions in the fleet was the destroyers and frigates of the United States, in which the ship's radars came to the forefront. This gave rise to the modern layout of ships as ships without armor (for missiles, the presence of an armored belt is not very important, they already have too much explosives that the armored belt will not help much), with high masts on which many antennas are placed and a small displacement caused by the fact that the radar equipment although it takes up a lot of space on the ship, it weighs much less than the artillery and armor of ships of the previous generation.

    Now the situation has changed, the priority in radio equipment has remained. But at the same time, over time, the need to use many different systems for different purposes disappeared, now everyone is switching to single complexes. When there are only 1 on the ship, a maximum of 2 types of antennas that perform any task. In addition, all systems are integrated not only among themselves, but also between other ships / aircraft / satellites of the flotilla. Because of this, what one ship sees, seconds after detection, is already seen by all other ships / aircraft / satellites connected to the system. Also, the number of countries in the fleet that has ships with multiple detection systems has SIGNIFICANTLY increased. Because of this, the problem of ship radio masking has increased more. Also, over time, the increasing automation of systems has led to a reduction in crews on board. And there are many such differences in modern conditions that distinguish the present period from the 80s and 90s of the twentieth century - you can’t list them all.

    And in such conditions, sooner or later, one of the countries will create a new generation of ships, which will even visually differ from the ships of previous generations. Namely:
    The ships will become maximally "pressed" to the surface of the water, because the lower the ship, the later it will become noticeable on enemy radars.
    The hull will become much "cleaner" than the hull of modern ships. All weapons and special equipment will be maximally integrated into the hull of the court or hidden by radio camouflage shields. Looking at such a board from the side, it will look like a perfectly flat iceberg.
    Only one structure will rise on ships - a tower with radar complex antennas. At the same time, the towers themselves may increase slightly in height. Also on especially large ships, they will return to the layout of two spaced towers, both for duplicating important systems, and for improving the accuracy of target designation and triangulation.
    Based on the goals of making the ship's profile as low and clean as possible, they will avoid using the ship's control bridge with panoramic windows. All control will go to closed armored control points inside the ship. Outside, there will be only a small control room needed to steer the ship when entering port or if the main control room is disabled. The rest of the time, there is no one in the outer cockpit and the windows are covered with radio reflective panels to increase the ship's radio masking.
    At the same time, the draft of ships may increase slightly. Since the ships of the near future need to maintain a low profile, but the problem of accommodating a large number of missiles and equipment while maintaining stability in the presence of a high mast with radars (or even two masts) does not go away. Accordingly, either the ships of the near future will increase in breadth or in depth. And they will more likely increase in depth, because an increase in the width of the vessel will have a stronger effect on the seaworthiness of the ship than draft. In addition, with increased width, we increase the EPR of the ship in profile.
    1. ada
      +1
      9 August 2022 21: 41
      In general, I support. but such prospects were seen 40 years ago, and they had to build according to traditional architecture. At present, it is impossible to build NK around a model of weapons or a combination of them, it is necessary to see the prospect and put it into the project, and if it is unknown, put into it a reserve of modernization for the replacement of equipment and weapons, moreover, quickly and in large volumes. This is where the modularity in the architecture of buildings and their content comes from, which makes it possible to assemble objects into a single whole and use an extensive network of enterprises for this, including those located far from the coast, use inland waterways for the transport of elements, and increase the stability of production in wartime. In addition, modularity makes it possible to have remote ground facilities for training crews and individual specialists, maintain replacement crews and have a reserve of hull elements and equipment for scheduled repairs without a long downtime of ships and the restoration of ships damaged during combat operations.
      By appearance and dimensions, draft and displacement. If we accept that as a result of major nuclear conflicts there should not be a geocatastrophe with changes in the axes, poles, orbits, rotation speeds and times of the planet, then we should expect climatic and hydrological conditions similar to the current ones, and therefore the accumulated parameters for such ships will remain the same, but the development contours and, as you correctly put it about cleanliness and iceberg-likeness, decisions on the surface part should "amaze the imagination." An increase in draft with good ratios of centers of forces always leads to an increase in stability and freedom of course relative to the wave. An increase in the transverse elements of the hull and the heights of the antenna-mast complex relative to the longitudinal dimensions and draft is not possible in all basins and is technically difficult. Most likely, we should expect a complex of aircraft for reconnaissance, relaying, etc., or new devices that detect disturbances in other media from interaction with the target. Lowering most of the surface hull or half-submerging it into a "water trench" means losing the buoyancy margin - unsinkability and the ability to straighten. This is suitable for submarines and small boats with other principles for regulating displacement and ensuring unsinkability. Now, if you apply part of this construct to increase survivability, then yes. And, in general - in solidarity, we must think for the future.
  19. -2
    9 August 2022 12: 17
    I saw a parade with 2 such destroyers in the Baltic, so they almost surpassed our entire fleet in combat power. If anyone could give them a head start, it was our submarines and coastal complexes in which case.
  20. ada
    -1
    9 August 2022 15: 35
    ... no matter how impressive they may look or what their data is on paper. ...

    No, this ship does not look "impressive", it is still the same architecture that has exhausted its potential, using traditional hull materials and layout schemes, power plants, propellers, etc., as well as methods of construction and repair, provision, ... .
    The future of NC is unambiguously behind other types of architecture, which allow in the future to coalesce and link in an object or group of objects (which is most likely suitable for the modern concept of cruising) a set of achievements in the construction and operation of military facilities from various areas and environments, including the operation on them personnel.
    It will be necessary to apply approaches to their prospective appearance and capabilities based on long-term war strategies and expectations for the development of methods and methods of warfare, climate change and hydrological conditions, the scientific, educational and economic potential of the country, allies and enemy. In terms of promising architecture, I see the possibility of its development by applying developments in the creation of NK, submarines and their weapons, rescue ships, two- and multi-media vehicles (including uninhabited ones), robots and automation, aviation, spacecraft and their life support systems, ground mobile armored objects and artillery, their integrated armor systems and modern composite building materials, finally, the l / s should get a uniform and equipment with means of protection (including armor protection) and survival, self-help, allowing them to function in battle in case of defeats and accidents, hospital medical complexes, catering and physical fitness on a scientific basis providing a long stay at sea, evacuation and rescue facilities (including those used on submarines) in difficult conditions.
    The hulls should receive developed contours, even taking into account the use of a large proportion of traditional materials for their manufacture and an increase in the wetting area and loss of speed in some modes of movement, complicating construction, but ensuring the use of weapons in bad weather conditions and high seaworthiness, combat stability with significant damage. Obviously, in this case, the main dimensions and tonnage will be similar to the hero of the article, but the traditional, neither the nasal chines, nor the flattened stern (helicopter) ends, their depth, the collapse of the sides and the simplification of the contours, cannot provide this. It will be necessary to apply the narrowing of the fore and aft ends with the minimization of the exploited upper decks, to reduce their weight fractions, the depth of the displacement part and the rejection of the bow bulb with a characteristic yacht scheme that has pronounced reverse (negative) slopes and bevels of the "sea knife", providing good stability on the course and a reduced range of pitching with significant waves and a decrease in the effects of flooding and slamming, good maneuverability when turning, including chill and on a wave. To do this, you will have to sacrifice draft and increase the area of ​​\u2b\u3bthe underwater part by 3/4 - XNUMX/XNUMX of the length of that part of the hull that directly "fights" with the displacement of the main part of the water and its pulling layer and other environmental disturbances, provides lateral stability. The working decks at the extremities should go under the protection of the upper decks, which have developed reverse slopes and slopes. In order to simplify the construction, here it is possible to resort to the "faceting" of the contours, mainly the surface part.
    It will be necessary to combine with "cutting", "mast" and "superstructure", providing calculated bends and variable displacements of hull elements with combined constructive and "stronghold" armoring of the most important control systems, weapons, power plants and other components and mechanisms specially grouped for this, using lifting devices. The need for armor is obvious and there are already many materials and devices for this, ranging from steel armor and dynamic armor - hinges, lamination to highly reinforced polymer concrete and plastics, ceramics and fabrics with acceptable volumetric weight characteristics and resistance to typical operating environments.
    1. ada
      0
      9 August 2022 15: 38
      In order to avoid multi-compartment and constructive complication and weighting of the hull, which does not provide the proper level of protection, it is possible to use modular compartments of combat posts in citadels with minimization of volumes according to the type of combat compartments of ground armored vehicles and submarines, rescue vehicles and equipment according to the level of workplaces of aviation and space vehicles and individual equipment. In general, minimizing the working volumes of inhabited and temporarily inhabited (operated) posts and their groups should become the basis for their design, and ensuring modular replacement should be a priority.
      Weapon elements dangerous for the survivability of the NK, having significant amounts of ammunition (PU KR, long-range air defense missiles), should be spaced and taken out to the safest places for the hull and other equipment, batteries can be placed onboard and will correspond to this and facilitate the transfer of stocks to the sea and at the wall using NDT equipment. In general, I consider the independent loading and loading capabilities of the ship and the transport corridors of its hull to be a priority for cruisers.
      The role of barreled artillery weapons will probably increase, as will the calibers and number of gun mounts at an optimal rate of fire. Obviously, the 130-150 mm caliber is promising for UAS, and it is also possible to switch to smooth-bore systems and store interchangeable barrels at the complex itself with a full cycle of maintenance of the artillery unit. Reservation of the main elements of the AK and the separation of cellars using the safest ammunition - storage systems, I consider it mandatory. Of course, this leads to an increase in dimension and displacement, but the "tin with fireworks" inside may simply not have time to complete the task.
      Missile weapons are characterized by a slight change in weight and size characteristics and can be counted on in the long run. It is probably necessary to be able to use submarine weapons for launching missiles "from the water" and dropped ammunition for use in special, including in bad weather, conditions. I suppose that the armament is promising in the complex "main ship - satellite ships (batteries, search engines, etc.) - multi-media vehicles - robots with a carrier or based on the main ship."
      In terms of control and communication systems, reconnaissance and navigation, household, medical, rescue, power plants, engines, propulsion and other important mechanisms, minimization and modularity, high security, an increase in the total number, uniformity, mutual redundancy are also important, making it possible to quickly replace with a ready-made and specialized repair at an industrial enterprise, which increase the survivability, combat stability of the NK in case of failure of a part of the equipment. Separate elements should be mated by docking, for example, launchers, VRK, water jet installations and other retractable, lowering or towed equipment, including docking to the side, deck.
      The main volume of the hull must ensure the placement of separate compartments and modules and their interface, withstand significant amounts of flooding and maintain overall structural integrity in case of calculated destruction (expected damage) from enemy weapons in order to continue the main task and the possibility of subsequent repair or donor disassembly. It is probable that the area of ​​the double bottom will be reduced and abandoned. A small docking chamber and flight deck for helicopters and robots is likely to be needed. True, I did not see helicopters flying from relatively small carriers in bad weather in the air. The enemy's areas of operation may have weather conditions suitable for the use of his weapons.
      This is purely my opinion, from the sore point.
  21. -5
    9 August 2022 16: 04
    Russians have only two reasons to disparage China - either because of race or because of envy
    1. ada
      +2
      9 August 2022 22: 21
      Come on, in general, among our people there is no disdain for China, and differences in races and cultures always give rise to a huge range of contradictions, we must be more tolerant. You don't have to fight with us, it's not good.
      Your ship is interesting and has in appearance a reflection of the features characteristic of the traditions of China (in my opinion), some embodiment of the originality of engineering in the visible outlines of structures and especially in the ratio of their sizes and configurations.
      So far, such a ship is the usual beaten track, a big step into the future is possible only in an unknown direction. And you can only envy your perseverance on the road and labor achievements.
      1. 0
        10 August 2022 00: 45
        The proportions of the ship are somehow straining, something personal, on an intuitive level. The road will be mastered by the walking one. Show the "goat" once a year, that's business! Could have been more interesting wink
  22. Hog
    +1
    9 August 2022 16: 30
    Since the seventies of the last century, ships (except aircraft carriers) have been constantly decreasing in size.

    Well, it seems like the opposite, they grew and grew.
  23. +1
    10 August 2022 00: 05
    not a bad boat, but this is a boat with its miserable displacements (16 boats * 13500 tons). The combined fleet of Russian oligarchs will not even notice these Chinese miracles. I generally keep quiet about the cost ... as well as about the Russian Navy.
  24. -1
    10 August 2022 11: 58
    vague doubts. China is able to spank a lot of ships, arm them, recruit crews. But, China completely lacks the experience of their combat use, all information is closed, what is there or what characteristics are declared - these are just words. Everyone saw Chinese tanks in the tank biathlon. I understand that it is necessary to say that this is window dressing, but it is necessary to compare. They broke, but the T72 did not. So Vv NWO, as soon as the use of Western systems began, then suddenly everything went wrong. Either the javelins have raw batteries, or the Ukrainians are skew-handed (with Soviet technology they are not skew-handed, but here it’s like everything at once ?!), the shells do not fly so far, the missiles are somehow of the wrong system. Of course, Western weapons have helped and are helping the Armed Forces, 155mm is also 155mm in Africa, but there is too much advertising and does not correspond to reality with the previously stated words.
    When did the Chinese really use their planes, missiles, tanks.?! And then a ship, and even a cruiser. And how is the quality of engines, weapons? How about managing this whole bunch of ships? No one knows. We are strong, we are very strong. But, in fact, when it was necessary to show the eggs, the "wise" friends wiped themselves off, and now they are jamming the fish around Taiwan.
    I think that people who are knowledgeable in the unusually high properties of this Chinese miracle will tell about the real situation. Well, I hope.
    1. 0
      10 August 2022 15: 12
      China has no experience with aircraft or missiles, but the quality of our weapons can be tested in other ways.

      The most obvious example of this is the Chinese drone war, when the Iraqis enthusiastically uploaded videos of them using drones online. Saudi Arabians bought our drones and ended up acquiring our drone production line.

      Also, I have heard that troops using Chinese drones have been fighting drones using Bayraktar TB2 on the battlefield in Libya.
      1. -1
        10 August 2022 15: 19
        thank you very much, but, both Iraq and the Saudis with the Libyans use equipment in the counter-guerrilla struggle. with a poorly trained and weakly armed enemy. The USA is not a paper tiger.
        1. -1
          10 August 2022 15: 31
          我们 之所以 选择 美国 神盾 系统 , 因为 我们 仔细 研究 了 的 优点。 我们 真正 的 对手 是 , 在 我们 不满 的 一切 后 , 最终 是 美国人。 让 以 以 波罗的海 虎 虎 为 立陶宛 立陶宛 立陶宛 立陶宛 HI例。

          如果 欧洲 体系 真的 优于 美国 体系 那么 我们 会 毫不犹豫 地 打压 打压 美国 体系 但是 我们 发现 欧洲 是 一 个 绝育 版本 , 不 完整 的 并 不 是 我们 技术 达 不。。。 标准 标准 标准 标准 标准 AH

          事实上 , 我们 的 小型 桅顶 相 于 我们 不 太 重要 护卫舰 护卫舰 或 出口 但 我们 国家 的 低 成本 船只 在 巴基斯坦 等 被 用作 该 海军 的 骨干。 将 根据 客户 桅杆 桅杆 桅杆 在 在 在 在 在 AH顶部为出口船舶配备小型相控阵。
          1. -1
            10 August 2022 15: 38
            那 我 就 冷静 了。 希望 通过 我们 的 努力 , 把 边境 附近 的 事情 搞定 没有 人 敢 我们 的 发展 和 繁荣 祝 你。。。。。 成功 成功 成功 HI
        2. -1
          10 August 2022 15: 37
          It is assumed that the role of drones is to fight adversaries who do not have air defense capabilities, and Iran successfully copes with American drones.

          A small number of drones are just a few model aircraft, and nobody cares.

          But, as we know, when quantity turns into quality, there comes a time when everyone has a headache.
  25. 0
    10 August 2022 12: 08
    It seems that some Internet users in China believe that the 055 figure is already behind the demand of the era. They believe that currently 055 is the latest form, with a total of 8 ships. The next version could be the 055A (modified model) or a 20 ton cruiser.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. 0
    10 August 2022 21: 46
    112 UVP cells - this is very serious.
    Of course, critics have already come running, someone was hurt that the American "Burks" are nervously smoking on the sidelines, someone was terribly offended that our corvettes and frigates are not close in terms of the set of weapons, because it seems to me that hypersound will be registered on 055- x, so our corvettes and frigates with their 16 or 24 UVP cells compared to the 055s are baby talk.
  28. +1
    10 August 2022 21: 54
    Let's recalculate 112 cells for our weapons systems:
    - 12 cells are given under the Poliment-Redut air defense system with short-range 9M100E missiles (4 missiles per cell) - 48 missiles;
    - 48 cells are given under the Poliment-Redut air defense system with long-range 9M96E2 / E2-1 missiles - 48 missiles;
    - We give 40 cells for the 3K55 Onyx anti-ship missile system, the 9K14T Caliber cruise missile system and the 3K22 Zircon hypersonic missile system, for example, in the ratio 20-16-4 - 40 anti-ship missiles / KR / GZR.
    - 12 cells are given under the Otvet anti-submarine missile system with PLUR 91-R "Caliber-NK" or "Medvedka-2" - 12 PLUR.
    In total, in 112 UVP cells, we have 148 missiles. Nice set, isn't it? It’s even interesting which of our corvettes or frigates creeps close to this "assorted"? Nothing comes to mind.
    1. ada
      -1
      11 August 2022 12: 27
      Quote: Panzerjager
      ... Not a bad set, isn't it? ...

      Undoubtedly, the “set” is not bad, but the ship is one of the elements of the system, but I would like to understand the full potential for the use and use of weapons of this carrier, how it is used and how, by what means and forces this is ensured, the intended tactics of actions on various theaters .
      Its seaworthiness is also interesting. In appearance, the ship has fairly complete contours, wide decks and voluminous superstructures ("chubby"), some deadrise and ribs of the displacement part, freeboard ribs with a reverse slope, a gentle exit to the stern valance and a slightly submerged low-draught transom with a slight strut, stern " hanging" (probably not overloaded with equipment) with a decent draft and a characteristic displacement. Visible elements of weapons are clearly not "overfed" as well as high structures with raising antenna posts. Particular attention can be paid to passive and active roll dampers - longitudinal side keels and 4 dynamic feathers, which is clearly done to ensure the use of weapons. It can be assumed (judging by the various photos with the ship on the water in motion and the characteristic perturbations of the water along the hull) that at medium speeds and light waves it is very stable for missile launches. For speeds under 30 or more, as well as in stormy weather, cars and other power plants will have to rest, especially in a sharp large wave with a short period (according to my feelings). It would be interesting to see how the metacenter "walks" at full displacement and with an "unloaded" BC. In appearance, it should be quite stable with a good margin of unsinkability.
      In general, it seems to me likely that the project was launched in an "incomplete" form in order to speed up the time for creating a group of forces at sea and in the future it will be modernized, and in the development of the project - more saturated modifications that have greater opportunities for integration into the Navy system and others .
      1. 0
        11 August 2022 14: 19
        A modern warship is, first of all, a floating weapons platform. If you have excellent seaworthiness, but from weapons - one 76-mm fart and a pair of missiles from MANPADS, then all seaworthiness will be lost in vain.
        The Chinese did not just buy Project 956 destroyers and Project 1135 patrol boats from us, and a couple of Maestrale-class frigates from the Italians, which were decommissioned. All these ships were distinguished by very good seaworthiness.
        Plus, before the 055 project, the Chinese built at least 24 destroyers of the 052D project, which also had very good performance.
        So the PRC is consistently following the path of increasing the capacity of its Navy with more and more high-quality ships.
        1. ada
          0
          12 August 2022 01: 56
          Undoubtedly, I agree with you.
          "Sarych" I still like it.
          However, it is necessary to adapt to the influence of "habitat" environments, here was the case. Attached to us "Perry", scurrying around the warrant, the helicopter lifted and flies around us from all sides. And everything would be fine, and the weather is good, the sun is shining, when suddenly the breeze freshened ahead of time according to the forecast and went in gusts. The helicopter is going to the ship, but they won’t be able to land, and it’ll do just that, but it won’t. Then he sat down and didn’t take off anymore, I don’t remember what exactly the ship’s commander did, whether he increased the speed or something else, but the “bird” landed, or it might not have landed. That seems to be serviceable weapons, the crew is trained, and not very bad weather did not allow us to realize our potential.
  29. +1
    14 August 2022 07: 53
    We are simply silent about the two Project 1164 cruisers remaining at the disposal of the Russian Navy. The story with the "Moscow" perfectly showed everyone what the combat value of the former Soviet ships, financed all their lives according to the residual principle, is.
    So just be quiet, and do not write all sorts of nonsense. What has history shown? Can you be specific? And not like a liberal riff-raff to suck out "stories".
    This is not visible on the pictures, which means that the cells are really universal and allow you to launch missiles of both types. Yes, you have to pay for it
    And what about sizes? How does this even correlate with the launch type? Can you do a hot start for a 1 meter rocket and a cold start for a 1 meter one, can you do it for an 8 meter one? Some kind of "water" in this alleged article. I wrote for idiots, it's a pity there are no diz.
  30. -1
    27 September 2022 09: 39
    Who knows how it will all end, but today China is demonstrating such a development of its military-industrial complex that it will not be surprising if either a destroyer or a cruiser of the PLA Navy becomes an example to follow.
    Or maybe it won't. Yet no one saw them in battle. On paper, you can think of a lot of things, but the Chinese have not used them anywhere.
  31. TIR
    0
    13 October 2022 09: 51
    It would not be bad to create a universal destroyer, where there would be ~ 100 universal vertical cells. And charge them depending on the tasks. So that there are missile defense / air defense, and ship / ground, anti-ship and anti-submarine missiles. Guidance systems will not take up so much space. And you need a couple of helicopters in the hangar to work against submarines. Yes, and create a single network for guidance and detection of targets for the entire group of ships. Moreover, the flagship so that it can decide from which ship to attack targets, preferably in the mode of this network. It might even be easier to give AI to control combat
    1. 0
      18 October 2022 08: 53
      In nature, there are no universal and effective things at the same time, shovels are also divided into specialized bayonet and shovel, not to mention the tool, the same wrenches, or narrow specialists in medicine, and a generalist is more of an assistant than a professional, and a universal a destroyer for all cases is no exception, it is a very expensive "helper" ship of dubious value. And about the size of the ship, a proportional increase in size leads to a disproportionate increase in cost and, most importantly, to a disproportionate increase in construction time. There is another serious factor that is not remembered, an increase in the length of the hull leads to a decrease in its resistance to explosions under it, where a short one survives, a long one will simply break in half
  32. 0
    19 October 2022 12: 59
    Explain to me what is "112 cells of the Nanchang vertical launch system" ???
    In the picture, I see 64 mines (hatch) or is this not the right photo ???