Politics, economy and fears: problems of military-technical assistance for Ukraine

96

Slovenian BMP M-80A are going to Ukraine. Photo Telegram / BMPD

Over the past few months, foreign countries have been constantly transferring various military products to Ukraine, incl. weapons and equipment. It was assumed that such assistance would help the Kyiv regime to successfully resist the Russian army, but such predictions did not come true. The reasons for this are quite simple and are related to the peculiarities of supplies due to the specific policies of foreign states.

Deliveries from stock


For obvious reasons, almost all foreign supplies in recent months have come from the presence of armies. The necessary weapons and equipment are taken from combat units or from storage bases and, after some preparation, are sent to Ukraine. Exceptions are extremely rare and so far concern only the simplest and cheapest systems.



It is easy to see that most foreign countries are in no hurry to dismantle their combat units for the sake of helping Ukraine. Desired products for shipment are often taken from storage, where they were previously transferred. It is quite natural that products at such sites are not distinguished by novelty, high performance and acceptable technical condition.


FH-70 gun, presumably supplied by Italy. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

However, such a material part will do to help a foreign "ally". At the same time, the army solves political issues and demonstrates its commitment to the notorious ideals of democracy and loyalty to "world leaders", and also frees up space for modern technology and weapons. In this case, the disposal of unnecessary objects is carried out by foreign forces. The fact that morally and physically obsolete products will not benefit Ukraine is actually ignored.

What we don't like


In recent months, it has been possible to repeatedly observe exactly how such "assistance" is carried out. So, already in late February and early March, a number of European states shipped a lot of infantry weapons and ammunition to Ukraine. These deliveries included old-fashioned Kalashnikov assault rifles, FAL rifles, and several types of anti-tank grenade launchers, some of which were morally and physically obsolete.

In the future, deliveries of other products began, up to armored vehicles, but the existing trends continued. Thus, several countries have provided Ukrainian formations with M113 armored personnel carriers and their modifications, various variants of the BMP-1 and similar vehicles, as well as other old armored vehicles. Artillery guns and rocket systems of the Soviet and foreign type, which are distinguished by their great age, were supplied.

Politics, economy and fears: problems of military-technical assistance for Ukraine

SAM Spada / Skyguard Aspide - Spain will ship several of these items. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of Spain

In addition, plans are being made to transfer other obsolete designs. For example, Germany recently confirmed the imminent shipment of Gepard anti-aircraft self-propelled guns, which have long been withdrawn from service. The other day, France announced the delivery of VAB armored personnel carriers, the production of which was completed in the late eighties. In the recent past, the possibility of transferring to Ukraine tanks Leopard 1 and other equipment that has not met current requirements for a long time.

Modern Alternative


However, in the form of assistance and under commercial contracts, modern weapons and equipment are also being transferred. Some of them can even be attributed to the advanced representatives of their class. However, even in this case, there are specific factors and problems that limit the usefulness of supplies.

First of all, the problem of quantity manifests itself: supplier countries cannot transfer a large number of modern products. They have to be taken from their own units, which leads to a reduction in combat capability and an increase in risks to their own security. At the same time, there are examples of what excessive enthusiasm in deliveries leads to. Thus, several countries are already talking about the absence of "free" weapons. Even the wealthy in the United States faced similar problems.


One of the Mastiff armored cars transferred by the UK. Photo Telegram / ChDambiev

The way out of this situation may be the production of new products specifically for the provision of military-technical assistance. For example, earlier in the United States, taking into account Ukrainian needs, they developed a new loitering ammunition. Germany, in turn, is launching the production of air defense systems specifically for the Ukrainian army.

In the case of modern products, the problem of secrecy and preservation of technology also arises. The Russian army successfully destroys and takes Ukrainian materiel as trophies, incl. foreign production. Third countries are afraid that Russia in this way can gain access to their most modern developments, which should be kept secret. For this reason, Kyiv has already been denied the supply of the latest UAVs and a number of other samples.

At different scales


Nevertheless, deliveries continue, although they have a different scale. Thus, several countries have allocated tens of thousands of RPGs and ATGMs, as well as ammunition for them, including advertised Javelin products. Hundreds or thousands are transmitted drones different types, incl. loitering ammunition. Deliveries of modern radar equipment, communication systems, etc. are of great importance. It should also be noted 120 British armored cars of several types.

Deliveries of other products of particular interest to the recipient are not large. For example, Kyiv rejoiced in the transfer of M777 howitzers, but just over a hundred of such guns were received. For several months, the deliveries of German self-propelled guns PzH 2000 were discussed, and as a result of these processes, only 12 vehicles were allocated. In the same or smaller quantities, French CAESAR howitzers arrived in Ukraine. In small numbers, American-made M270 / MARS2 and M142 MLRS are transferred. At the same time, multiple launch rocket systems are not equipped with the most long-range missiles.


The Swedish army was supposed to supply Ukraine with RBS-17 anti-ship missiles. Photo by the Swedish Ministry of Defense

It is curious that the supply of some modern foreign samples remains in question or is generally excluded for objective reasons. So, back in April, Canada promised to send its LAV III armored personnel carriers, but so far has not done so. Discussions continue on the possibility of transferring German Leopard 2 tanks in modern versions. Special mention deserves dubious plans to restore the Ukrainian military aviation with the help of F-16 fighters or other foreign equipment.

Negative Factors


Along with military-technical assistance from foreign countries, Ukraine receives a number of characteristic problems. Thus, a wide range of supplies leads to disunification, which complicates the development, operation and supply. In addition, the supply volumes do not correspond to the current situation, and most of the assistance is obsolete products with minimal combat value.

With all this, the Ukrainian army creates some problems on its own. The quality of personnel training leaves much to be desired and is constantly deteriorating. The fighters cannot properly master the incoming samples and fully use them. Because of this, it is not possible to realize the potential of the products obtained, and in addition, additional risks arise.


After discussions, the US refused to supply the MQ-9C UAV. Photos of General Atomics

As a result, Ukrainian units and subunits suffer material losses. Retreating, they abandon weapons and equipment, not only disabled, but also serviceable. In addition, a significant part of the products is simply destroyed by the fire of the advancing armies of Russia and Donbass. Allied forces have, demonstrate and confirm all the possibilities for the timely detection and destruction of enemy targets. Demilitarization by all available means of fire continues and yields new results.

Predictable future


Over the past few months, foreign countries have been transferring weapons, equipment and other military products to Ukraine. However, such assistance does not give the desired effect and almost does not prevent the Russian army from moving forward. The reasons for this lie both in the complete superiority of our armed forces, and in the specifics of foreign supplies for the Ukrainian army.

Foreign states seek to help Ukraine and hinder Russia, but at the same time they intend to solve additional tasks of a political and other nature. They take the right political position, but they are looking for opportunities to save on supplies, not worsen the condition of their own armies and find an excuse to rearm and develop military budgets. All this excludes the possibility of more extensive and useful assistance to the Kyiv regime.

The first signs of such a situation could be noticed already in the first weeks of the Russian Special Operation, when foreign deliveries to Ukraine began. In the following months, the situation evolved, but its key features remained the same. And we can expect that in the foreseeable future there will be no fundamental changes. Foreign countries will continue to support the Kyiv regime, but real steps in this direction will be modest and ineffective.
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  1. +24
    1 July 2022 05: 12
    Foreign countries will continue to support the Kyiv regime, but real steps in this direction will be modest and ineffective

    Kiril, as I understand it, the events on Zmein Island did not bring you to your senses with ineffective help?
    1. +19
      1 July 2022 06: 32
      Kiril, as I understand it, the events on Zmein Island did not bring you to your senses with ineffective help?

      And such a circle of God's dew. Everything is going according to an unknown plan. Recently, Naryshkin (whatever one may say, but not a stupid person, maybe not urapatriotic) declared (by the way, once again) that in Poland they are ready to saw Ukraine and count on a piece not much less than Russia. But do we have Putin and Shoigu not a word, not a half-word, or is it according to plan? Here on the site they began to bawl about the fact that the Poles would choke ... And it never occurred to anyone to take a sober look at what the Poles should choke on? Probably Western Ukraine, in which they (Poland) did not bomb Ukrainians, did not kill the relatives of the Westerners, but on the contrary they gave weapons to fight the aggressor and murderer of relatives - Russia, they gave ... The Ukrainians, in response, gave Poland the opportunity to participate in the administrative authorities in this way Poland became a participant in all social programs, more precisely at the stage of their distribution. And Russia, even in the reclaimed lands, did not even organize any temporary leadership. Even the border service in the section with the Ukrainian border has not been transferred to a special regime for the passage of goods and persons across the border (probably because no one even thought about it). What should Poland choke on, and probably the transport and industrial infrastructure of western Ukraine, which we have carefully preserved, where road maps are already being drawn up for injecting money from Europe and the USA, or should Poland marvel and choke on possible rollbacks on this help? And what are they doing here and in general for Russia? At first they entered and went almost to Kyiv, then they came to their senses, saw that they were met without flowers ... they moved away. Azovstal was torn apart for about a month, and already when, as I understand it, the Nazis themselves were tired of this circus and they went out after taking everything and everyone who could be of interest to the Russian Federation from the territory of the plant, we were told that everyone had surrendered (and who, by the way, said that the downed turntables over Azovstal had all the previous nights didn’t fly back and forth like minibuses, and that after that others didn’t continue the same flights?)
      A cruiser was sunk behind the island, and now this is a gesture of goodwill about which there was no announcement after it was made. Konashenko reported to the Russians. I understand everything, there are failures, but reasonable people at least pretend that everything will be fine, and after all, a lieutenant general received a person precisely for working with the media on behalf of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, that is, such a blunder for everyone to see.
      1. +11
        1 July 2022 07: 08
        However, such assistance does not give the desired effect and almost does not prevent the Russian army from moving forward.

        Doesn't it interfere? At all?
        1. +13
          1 July 2022 13: 27
          Quote: Civil
          However, such assistance does not give the desired effect and almost does not prevent the Russian army from moving forward.

          Doesn't it interfere? At all?

          Even cheap Chinese drones throwing self-made PSUs from VOG-17 kill soldiers. There are already a bunch of videos about it. And the author is still tryn-grass.
          We are waiting for articles from him on the topic: "why the island of the Snake is useless." Why the island is useful, the author already wrote:
          It is important to take control of Serpentine. In the past, it housed air defense facilities that controlled a significant part of the Black Sea. Also, the island is an advantageous position for anti-ship, anti-aircraft or other fire weapons. However, now the appearance of enemy weapons on it is excluded, and there is no threat to our ships and aircraft.
          1. +6
            1 July 2022 13: 47
            We are waiting for articles from him on the topic: "why Snake Island is useless"

            Something broke after leaving this accursed island...
            1. +9
              1 July 2022 14: 42
              Quote: Civil
              Something broke after leaving this accursed island...

              Repeat three times a day after meals the phrase: "The special military operation is proceeding in strict accordance with the schedule, according to the plan." At night, before going to bed, read one or two articles by Ryabov or Staver. You can also watch Yuri Podolyak, it also helps a lot, but there is a big risk of addiction, and then painful breaking when compared with reality. Sharia or Strelkov, as sources of information, must be completely excluded. And so for about a week and a half.
              It should help you restore the fracture and strengthen patriotic immunity.
              1. +4
                1 July 2022 14: 53
                Quote: Hyperion
                Quote: Civil
                Something broke after leaving this accursed island...

                Repeat three times a day after meals the phrase "Special military operation is proceeding in strict accordance with the schedule, according to the plan." At night, before going to bed, read one or two articles by Ryabov or Staver. You can also watch Yuri Podolyak, it also helps a lot, but there is a big risk of addiction, and then painful breaking when compared with reality. Sharia or Strelkov, as sources of information, must be completely excluded. And so for about a week and a half.
                It should help you restore the fracture and strengthen patriotic immunity.

                The Lord is with you, the bond is stronger than ever. Especially since I remember Lenin's principles regarding the war of 1914. Therefore, my support for the NWO is wholeheartedly and extremely disinterested. The above text just wanted to emphasize the general tone of the patriots. Our unimaginable pain at the onset of awareness of reality.
                1. +2
                  1 July 2022 15: 51
                  Quote: Civil
                  Our unimaginable pain at the onset of awareness of reality.

                  And the reality is that ahead is only victory and the fulfillment of all the conditions and requirements of the Russian Federation, which were announced even before, and practically did not change.
                  Good conquers evil. And who represents the good, it’s not even worth guessing. Has Ukraine ever demonstrated a gesture of goodwill? Here is something!
                  1. +3
                    1 July 2022 16: 23
                    At such a pace and forces as they are now involved in Ukraine, victory will be in 10 years.
                    1. 0
                      3 July 2022 17: 06
                      the main thing is to be
            2. +2
              1 July 2022 22: 04
              What broke it? The island is really not important to us, today anyway! It is important for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, though I don’t really understand why, they say to control the water area, which we now control!
              Therefore, it is important that Serpentine is not occupied by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but whether our troops are there or not at the present time does not matter! hi
              What really annoys is when the Ministry of Defense tries, instead of a normal, understandable explanation: "due to the appearance of long-range systems in the enemy, the defense of the Serpentine garrison becomes irrelevant due to the high risk of losses among personnel, so the garrison was evacuated from the island, to defend the island there will be a Navy and a Aerospace Forces.", And instead they carry a frank blizzard: "about a gesture of goodwill" without explaining what this gesture is connected with!
  2. +10
    1 July 2022 06: 32
    it can be expected that no fundamental changes will occur in the foreseeable future.

    Kissinger outlined three scenarios for the development of events in Ukraine... none of which is an unconditional victory for Russia. what
    That is, we should expect further pumping of the Nazis in Ukraine with weapons as events unfold ... there is a high probability of Poland's invasion of Galicia, followed by the occupation of the western regions of Ukraine.
    So the conflict is just beginning and when and how it will end, only God knows.
    With such a rate of advance of the allied forces and the surrender of the positions taken earlier, it is not clear how further denification and demilitarization will develop.
    Everything is shrouded in darkness.
  3. +11
    1 July 2022 06: 52
    It was assumed that such assistance would help the Kyiv regime to successfully resist the Russian army, but such predictions did not come true.


    Too bad, but for five months they have been holding on to this help that does not justify forecasts.
    The forecasts came true, Kyiv itself, dying, is killing Russian soldiers, there is a crisis in Europe, the United States is disposing of old weapons ....
    In the West, everyone expected that Kyiv would not last even a week.
    1. -2
      1 July 2022 22: 23
      Kyiv would not have lasted a week The question of the price of such a victory! The very status of a military operation does not imply the storming of the capital, but the imposition of conditions and coercion to fulfill the requirements! bully both sides are trying to create a situation for the enemy in which the enemy will be forced to agree to the demands! No one knows what Putin’s plan is for achieving his goals, and we don’t know what strength threshold Zelensky and the forces supporting him have, so we can only observe smile
  4. +12
    1 July 2022 07: 03
    Quote: Kozak Za Bugra
    The forecasts came true, Kyiv itself, dying, is killing Russian soldiers, there is a crisis in Europe, the United States is disposing of old weapons ....

    In this war game, the Anglo-Saxons will benefit the most ... the USA and England.
    These two vipers from where all the abomination against Russia comes from will take advantage of the weakening of Russia and the collapsed Ukraine.
    In no case should Russia ease pressure in the NVO.
    Losing the initiative of death is like.
    On the contrary, it is necessary to build up blows and achieve the set goals to the maximum harshly and efficiently.
    It is necessary to immediately include the liberated regions of Ukraine in the Russian economy ... we need effective managers, as it was in Stalin's times.
    1. +12
      1 July 2022 07: 10
      There is one problem, I hope to be wrong, but in the United States there is an opinion that if Russia has been messing with Ukraine for so long, then it will not cope with NATO, no matter how they pushed the European mongrels to rash action.
      1. +8
        1 July 2022 12: 42
        Also an open secret.
        Russia was not going to fight NATO with conventional weapons. They understand this very well, so the mongrels bark, but do not bite.
  5. Kim
    +1
    1 July 2022 07: 35
    "If you don't believe me, take it as a fairy tale", yes...
    -----------------------
    according to relatively recent data
    Ukrainians lose 3-5 of their own for one of ours, while "playing" from defense
    (counter) battery fight - one salvo for ten of ours
    ------------------------
    those. not so much "coverage, maneuver and cauldron" as unspectacular grinding
    EU-but, without Western help, it would be harder for them
    1. 0
      3 July 2022 13: 40
      The exchange of 5 territorial defense soldiers for one trained contract soldier is also, as it were, not in our favor. They fight with a mobilized army, we grind down a professional core of contracted and motivated volunteers.
      1. Kim
        0
        4 July 2022 05: 36
        and only the defense is fighting there? as far as I can understand, TO has practically no motivation, they are kicked out to the front line - with understandable efficiency
  6. +16
    1 July 2022 08: 07
    Kirill, apparently, has not yet finished the article "NASAMS - little, late, useless" and he posted some kind of intermediate summary of his series.

    Well, the author is partly right. For the Russian Federation, there is one good news and one bad.

    The good news is that no political decisions have been made in the West since November. How the special military operation should end and, accordingly, what resources and what format of participation is needed for this.

    The bad news is that since only one not quite healthy grandfather makes a political decision, it can be any and at any moment. Since the already available purely symbolic assistance turned out to be enough to create serious problems for the RF Armed Forces, the involvement of the aggressive NATO bloc in more systematic work, not to mention direct military participation, will be a bad surprise for the RF Armed Forces.
    1. Kim
      0
      4 July 2022 05: 39
      grandfather basically decides whether to say hello to ghosts today or not
      ---------------------
      in general, these are two "situations" - the USA / Britain at the hands of 404 and Russia, which is very sad, and Russian civilization against Western ...
  7. +6
    1 July 2022 08: 12
    The West does not even have "tactical mistakes", but temporary problems with the supply of weapons to Ukraine. Because it takes time to expand and reactivate its production capacities.

    Russia has a major global strategic mistake made by Yeltsin & Co. Creation of sovereign states-former republics of the USSR, instead of restoring order in the USSR. These states became colonies of the West.

    The second strategic mistake: since 2014, relying on the Minsk Agreements, which turned out to be only a guarantee that Russia will not interfere in the process of creating the most powerful military force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near its borders for some time.

    Third strategic mistake:
    An offensive in all directions in February 2022. It led to the fact that Donetsk is still being shelled. I had to leave both Kyiv and Serpentine. The offensive must go in the narrow direction of the main attack, which does not change until complete success is achieved on it.
    1. +6
      1 July 2022 08: 19
      Quote: ivan2022
      temporary problems with the supply of weapons to Ukraine. Because it takes time to expand and reactivate its production capacities.

      The West has no problems with weapons - its mountains. But so far there is no desire to deliver it. Political declarations about Ukraine's military victory are still declarations.
    2. +2
      1 July 2022 20: 13
      KMK, it was the NWO that was planned with the capture of Kyiv, everything else was for distraction. Which "almost" turned out (((. Well, there was no plan "B".
  8. -9
    1 July 2022 08: 18
    Politics, economy and fears: problems of military-technical assistance for Ukraine

    The possibilities of the West for the supply of weapons are not unlimited, so the stocks of weapons are limited. Somewhere by the end of September, presumably, these opportunities will run out. Is that the United States will begin to supply, taking away weapons from its troops.
    1. +5
      1 July 2022 08: 23
      Quote: riwas
      Somewhere by the end of September, presumably, these opportunities will run out

      )))
      Never mind deliveries you have planned for July-September.
    2. +1
      1 July 2022 08: 34
      There is no unity of opinion. One writes that the West has mountains of weapons, the other that the stocks will run out, and I write that the West needs time to start production.
      Historically, this was the case during the Second World War, the USSR won, because by the end of 1942 it began to produce more weapons than the Reich. And he held the lead until the end of the war.
      The winner is not the one who has more losses, but who produces more weapons.
      1. +8
        1 July 2022 08: 36
        The West needs time to start producing the latest designs. To the west are mountains of weapons from the 80s. There is no contradiction here.
      2. -1
        1 July 2022 16: 58
        Quote: ivan2022
        The winner is not the one with the most loss.

        Well, yes ... as a rule - on the contrary laughing
    3. +16
      1 July 2022 08: 54
      Run out? Are you okay there? In Nevada, there are 5000+ M113s and 1000+ Abrams of various early models. And another 500-700 M109, starting with the A2, which fought in Vietnam, ending with the early A5.



      From Europe, you can recruit another 300-500 artillery systems and self-propelled guns 155 mm (in addition to the Caesars, France has the same 52 caliber guns in a towed version and as a tracked installation - 100+ each).


      Yes, they do not have a computerized FCS, they do not shoot with various smart projectiles. But this is a 52 caliber installation, which even Hyacinth will shoot down.

      Spain has similar towed guns in storage and is being removed. More massive chassis, but also 155/52.


      Italy has 60+ M109s with upgrades from Leonardo in storage, while Germany has up to 400 M109s of different versions in storage.

      If we take air defense SV - Asrad, Roland, Aspid, MIKA, Rapier 2 (from 5 km ceiling). That's all been scolded enough. Conventional Hawks, in general, in theory, you can assemble 100-150 batteries with a decent amount of missiles, and even a stale Impruved Hawk from the late Nixon times = 40/20 km.
      1. -15
        1 July 2022 09: 01
        Quote: donavi49
        donavi49

        The more different equipment in the troops, the more headache with its maintenance. Unmaintained equipment quickly becomes incapacitated.

        And, yes - do you have enough inhabitants for all this good? Or at least half? wink laughing
        1. +9
          1 July 2022 09: 09
          Unmaintained equipment quickly becomes incapacitated.


          I’ll tell you a secret - in a war, any equipment quickly becomes incapacitated. And not only because of the destruction, but also because of various breakdowns that cannot be repaired on the spot. The best example is the mass pestilence of the BMP-3. Which are transported to factories by trains. All of them, but not because they were damaged in battle, but because the resources flew away.


          Therefore, this factor can be overlooked.

          As for logistics and other things, NATO standards work just like that. American oils and liquids are superbly pumped into the French Caesar. Canadian and Australian 155 mm shells are fired from German and Norwegian howitzers, etc.

          The main difficulty and load on logistics are calibers (Britain will probably transfer a new 105 mm caliber in July - 50 L119 howitzers, which are being trained in Salisbury).


          As well as new serviceable chassis, especially tracked ones.
          1. -12
            1 July 2022 09: 30
            Quote: donavi49
            I’ll tell you a secret - in a war, any equipment quickly becomes incapacitated. And not only because of the destruction, but also because of various breakdowns that cannot be repaired on the spot.

            I know this, and this is what I wrote about. When the diversity of technology begins to ripple in the eyes (and it already, in practice, it is in the Armed Forces of Ukraine), this zoo becomes unrepairable in principle.

            Quote: donavi49
            The best example is the mass pestilence of the BMP-3. Which are being transported to factories by trains

            Is it on the principle of "the fool himself"? It's a shame for you, I understand ... but I won't even try to sympathize - for "your" equipment - and the factories are further away, and its range is much larger. What is good at the exhibition, but not at war request

            PS: my question about "whether there will be enough inhabitants" seems to have disappeared in vain. What is symptomatic Yes laughing
        2. +12
          1 July 2022 09: 54
          Quote: Repellent
          The more different equipment in the troops, the more headaches with its maintenance

          It's not entirely clear what's bothering you? If the same Caesar, then his task is to make 2000 shots and go to the factory to replace the barrel. This is several months with heavy use. I wouldn't worry too much about running gear in this situation.
          Quote: Repellent
          enough inhabitants, for all this good?

          If the RF Armed Forces continue to operate with a group of 150-200 thousand people, then 500-600 thousand l / s, which the Armed Forces of Ukraine have already put under arms, is quite enough, including for the rotation of units.
          1. -14
            1 July 2022 10: 03
            Quote: Negro
            It's not entirely clear what's bothering you?

            Are you also from Ukraine?

            Quote: Negro
            If the same Caesar, then his task is to make 2000 shots and go to the factory to replace the barrel. This is several months with heavy use. I wouldn't worry too much about running gear in this situation.

            Well, you are an optimist. And I'll tell you that you can break any device ... yes, just out of the blue, easily. But how to fix it later - yes, it's a problem.

            Quote: Negro
            If the RF Armed Forces continue to operate with a group of 150-200 thousand people, then 500-600 thousand l / s, which the Armed Forces of Ukraine have already put under arms, is quite enough, including for the rotation of units

            It's clear. Well, as you say -

            A fool with a thought, a radiance, a wine and a richness

            Good luck Yes laughing
            1. +5
              1 July 2022 10: 32
              Quote: Repellent
              Are you also from Ukraine?

              I load from Abrams, and in Ukraine so far there are only Soviet cars with AZ.
              Quote: Repellent
              And I'll tell you that you can break any device ... yes, just out of the blue, easily

              You are certainly right. I'm just like you dissatisfied with this zoo. SPGs alone - Msta, Gvozdika, Acacia, Hyacinth, Peony, Susanna, Crab, AS-90, M109, Caesar, Paz2000. The mythical Bogdana is still somewhere supposedly, one thing. This is not a job, but a scam.
              Naturally, translation into one or two systems is required. Of the modern ones, there is only K-9 in such quantity, it is unlikely to be given, the rest are not massive enough. So for now, the best option is the M109.
              1. -4
                1 July 2022 10: 43
                Quote: Negro
                Quote: Repellent
                Are you also from Ukraine?

                I'm loader with Abrams, uh in Ukraine so far only Soviet cars with AZ

                Well if in Ukraine... clear.
          2. 0
            1 July 2022 10: 47
            "If the same Caesar, then his task is to fire 2000 shots and leave for the factory"
            This is if the gun lives on a poly6on and is properly maintained.
            In war, everything does not go according to plan and always in the direction of reducing the resource
            1. +5
              1 July 2022 11: 13
              Yes, that's right.

              What is the thesis? Is the world-by-string approach right for building an army? Of course not. Are systems supplied in the amount of one battery or one division completely useless? Not quite.
          3. -1
            1 July 2022 11: 58
            And the question of the quality of this personnel ??
            1. 0
              1 July 2022 12: 20
              What's wrong with quality?
      2. +4
        1 July 2022 09: 28
        AMX did not seem to be reworked, the old barrel is 39klb.

        But in general, you are right, the obvious decision: if the era of mass armies in the West ended in 92, then Ukraine needs to be pulled up to the NATO level of 92 with selective relatively cheap improvements. It does not seem that the modern RF Armed Forces are ready to meet the army of Desert Storm.
      3. -4
        1 July 2022 11: 30
        Quote: donavi49
        Run out? Are you okay there? In Nevada, there are 5000+ M113s and 1000+ Abrams of various early models. And another 500-700 M109, starting with the A2, which fought in Vietnam, ending with the early A5.

        So they still need to be delivered, and these are real funds and real money. I'm not saying that they need to be put in order after conservation
        1. +2
          1 July 2022 11: 48
          Quote: APASUS
          these are real funds and real money. I’m not saying that they need to be put in order after conservation

          Where do you see the problem? Storage by the way is different, including the performance of routine maintenance.
          1. -5
            1 July 2022 12: 32
            Quote: Negro
            Where do you see the problem?

            I don’t see any problems with the country that prints dollars, to be honest. The problem is that giving away a used tank costs nothing, but delivering it from the USA to Ukraine will cost 10 thousand real dollars, per piece
            Quote: Negro
            Storage by the way is different, including the performance of routine maintenance.

            Americans don’t store like that, they tritely hope for a desert climate, then re-opening and let’s go .............
            1. +6
              1 July 2022 13: 42
              Quote: APASUS
              to deliver it from the USA to Ukraine will cost 10 thousand real dollars, per piece

              Would that confuse people who are airlifting howitzers from the US and armored cars from Australia? Quite by accident, the United States has such a sickly shipping command.
              Quote: APASUS
              they tritely hope for a desert climate, then reopening and let's go

              If all of a sudden the Americans really get down to business in earnest, then 500 SEPv2 Abrams from the presence of the army will go to Poland, the vehicles from storage will go to the army, they still have to be converted to M1A2C, so the Americans can afford to trample on old modifications. In the meantime, a heart-to-heart conversation is being held with the Spaniards, Finns and Swiss - this is 400+ Leo2a4 from storage, which no one really needs. In Poland, there are rear services for them and 200+ Polish PT-92s and 250 Polish Leopards, which can be given away in such cases. It’s quite serious, it is provided with repairs behind a ribbon and quite quickly. The Poles, of course, are worried about what is happening and do not want to be left without tanks, but they definitely have time to master new technology.
              1. -2
                2 July 2022 10: 47
                Quote: Negro
                Quite by accident, the United States has such a sickly shipping command.

                You can easily see how much freight, insurance, fuel cost. I think I was wrong +/- 5%
                Quote: Negro
                In the meantime, a heart-to-heart conversation is being held with the Spaniards, Finns and Swiss - this is 400+ Leo2a4 from storage, which no one really needs. In Poland, there are rear services for them and 200+ Polish PT-92s and 250 Polish Leopards, which can be given away in such cases.

                The conversation has already begun about what should be reimbursed to the countries that transferred their equipment to Ukraine for a new one.
                There was a particularly revealing briefing for journalists at the Pentagon. To put it briefly,
                This is your decision to help Ukraine!!! If you want new equipment - buy
                1. 0
                  2 July 2022 12: 06
                  Quote: APASUS
                  You can safely see how much freight, insurance, fuel cost

                  Why do nonsense? Let's assume that the delivery of 1000 tanks costs $10 million, so what?
                  Quote: APASUS
                  If you want new equipment - buy

                  You see, no one is obliged to disinterestedly love Ukraine more than the government of Ukraine. However, in this scenario, Abrams come to Poland (by the way, the Poles seem to have already bought half of the 500 cars), and as for Leo2a4, this is scrap metal, which no one will buy now anyway. Just right for gestures of goodwill. By the way, it's one thing to say "no" to Ukraine, and another thing to say "no" to the Americans.

                  And once again, this should not be taken as a forecast - the foul language of respected partners is endless like the Universe. I'm just talking about the possibilities that currently exist.
            2. +1
              1 July 2022 20: 13
              Today, Ursula von der Leyen gave Ukraine 1 billion euros, which do not need to be returned, and the total package promised by the EU this year is 9 billion euros.

              And yes, how are the decision-making centers? The entire leadership was sitting in the Verkhovna Rada today, starting with Zelensky and Shmygal, ending with deputies.

              Another lard of non-refundable euros by the end of 22 or by the beginning of 23 was brought by the prime minister of Norway, and he also promises even more weapons (Norway is in the top in terms of supplies, especially in art - 22 M109 already, and the same number is being prepared).

              "I have come to express support for the people of Ukraine. Norway will transfer 1 billion euros by the end of this year or early 2023 for the needs of the people," he said.

              No one will let Ukraine go bankrupt while the fighting is going on. The same applies to weapons. Moreover, the states take on a significant part of the transportation (for them this is not a problem at all, they carried the most back and forth to Afghanistan, and now it’s even a useful raid) + Antonov’s airlines with Ilas and Ruslans.
              1. -1
                1 July 2022 20: 18
                Quote: donavi49
                Today, Ursula von der Leyen gave Ukraine 1 billion euros, which do not need to be returned, and the total package promised by the EU this year is 9 billion euros... Another lard of non-refundable euros by the end of 22 or by the beginning of 23 brought by the Prime Minister of Norway

                Any freebie basement?

                Well, nothing, you have a lot of right people up there. What is some pair of lards to them - so, for one tooth if.

                By the way, your "state" still has to live until the beginning of 2023 wink request
      4. +1
        1 July 2022 16: 57
        The Americans have an M60A3 shaft. The tank can still!

        It will be interesting to see him with Contact-1. Already seen with ERA.)
        1. +1
          1 July 2022 20: 04
          Well, yes, the reconstruction of the battle for Fulda - Leopards1 and M60 against T-72A and T-62!
          1. 0
            1 July 2022 20: 29
            Well, yes, the reconstruction of the battle for Fulda - Leopards1 and M60 against T-72A and T-62!

            If they hit each other head-on with ammunition, then at the filling level, I would single out the M60A3 (TTS). In 1978, he received a scope, and at the end of 1979 he went into series. Then he received an increase in the form of "TTS", i.e. - Tank Termal Sight (Tank Thermal Imaging Sight). The United States has more than five thousand of these machines in storage, namely in the TTS version.
            If there is a mahach 10 M60A3 TTS vs 10 T-72A, then I would bet on the M60A3.
            As they say: yes, I am old, but not useless.
  9. +11
    1 July 2022 09: 02
    Quote: Negro
    The West needs time to start producing the latest designs. To the west are mountains of weapons from the 80s. There is no contradiction here.

    And then there is a contradiction in the actions of Russia, which is leading the JI slowly. Several months will pass and our industry will not be able to provide the necessary volumes of supplies. Especially if Ukraine begins to widely use more powerful and new weapons. What will we do if we run into this? To win, we need a lightning war.
    1. +8
      1 July 2022 09: 40
      Some strange claims. Plan A, with little blood, with a mighty blow, failed, and plan B, something in the style of Arab-Israeli special military operations, is implemented through a stump and depends mainly on the actions of a third party.
    2. -8
      1 July 2022 12: 00
      We have so many stocks of pig iron since the times of the USSR that mom don’t cry, and the factories producing ammunition, missiles, etc. have switched to three shifts
  10. +1
    1 July 2022 09: 16
    Let's agree on concepts. (Descartes)
    Let's think and speak in adequate categories.
    This is not "help" - this is logistics.
    If the situation is reversed, then we should say that the Russian Federation provides military assistance to its active (professional, contract) army.
  11. +16
    1 July 2022 09: 24
    If the author or others like him make analytical reports for the leadership of the Defense Ministry or the Security Council, then there is nothing surprising in the underestimation of the enemy by decision makers ...
  12. +4
    1 July 2022 09: 24
    It would be better to effectively destroy ineffective means even at the border.
  13. +5
    1 July 2022 10: 59
    Kirill, everything looks in rainbow colors, in your opinion. Snake Island was a stumbling block, neither grain could be withdrawn, nor weapons could be brought .... Having processed long-range artillery and missiles, they started talking about the inexpediency of holding the island ... Now dry cargo ships with wheat will go there and weapons back ... And we have something to answer, even if today's deliveries have nothing to cover? .. In the meantime, X-22/32, developed in 1971, the latest version of 1998, flew to Kremenchug ...
    1. -6
      1 July 2022 12: 01
      Yes, the grain will not flow like a river, well, there is not physically so much of it and there is stupid noise and political dregs about grain
      1. Kim
        0
        4 July 2022 05: 51
        here is also a suspicion that there has been no grain for a long time
        ensign Nechiporenko - a weapon stronger than "Axes"
        ------------------
        China's silence is incomprehensible
        b. Ukraine - EMNIP - took loans from China backed by grain
    2. -2
      1 July 2022 16: 31
      More than 22 X 7000 missiles were fired that they lie idle in warehouses, and they would still let X 15 use steel aeroballistic missiles of which several thousand fired the same - all weapons that can cause significant damage to the enemy should be used.
      1. -1
        2 July 2022 12: 10
        Of course, especially if they fall in the wrong place ... After all, they were created to transport nuclear charges, and there 500 meters of deviation is not a miss ..
        1. Kim
          0
          4 July 2022 05: 52
          uh ... Are you sure that 500 meters is normal for nuclear weapons KVO?
          The wiki gives an upper bound: "The most accurate ballistic missiles have a CEP of less than 100 meters, even at intercontinental ranges."
  14. -5
    1 July 2022 11: 26
    In my opinion, the supply of weapons is slow due to the fact that Russia now has an impressive air superiority, and this equipment will be quickly knocked out without much effect, and air defense systems and combat aircraft cannot be delivered so easily. A long period of personnel training is needed. Most likely, it has already begun, but it takes at least a couple of years to do this, the retraining of existing personnel will certainly be faster, but there are few of them, a significant part has already been knocked out.
    1. +5
      1 July 2022 12: 36
      Quote: Herman 4223
      Russia has impressive air superiority, and this equipment will be quickly knocked out without much effect, and air defense systems and combat aircraft cannot be so easily delivered.

      Air superiority - to the front line. For the front line, ours, as I understand it, also do not particularly meddle. "Easy" - you can't put air defense systems and planes, but it's not easy - you can, if you really want to. Yes, even with Western specialist volunteers to boot.
      1. -1
        1 July 2022 13: 00
        “Simple” - you can’t deliver air defense systems and planes, but it’s not easy - you can, if you really want to. And even with Western volunteer specialists to boot.”
        In a small amount, yes, and the current composition can be retrained in a matter of months. But several air defense divisions and several dozen aircraft will not fundamentally change anything. This is enough to cover one area and not for long. They will be quickly ground and everything will return to normal. And in order to create a more or less reliable protection of their troops from the air, we need dozens of air defense brigades, and hundreds of combat aircraft. To do this, you need to train thousands of specialists, volunteers of all specialties in such numbers simply cannot be found.
        1. +1
          1 July 2022 13: 53
          Quote: Herman 4223
          But several air defense divisions and several dozen aircraft will not fundamentally change anything. This is enough to cover one area and not for long. They will be quickly ground and everything will return to normal.

          You greatly underestimate the prospects for such a development of events. Naturally, with cannon assaults on infantry positions in the style of IL-2, aviation will end quickly. But if it is used wisely, then the very fact of the appearance of aviation weapons in the theater of operations gives the enemy such opportunities that oh.
          1. -1
            1 July 2022 14: 34
            Quote: Negro
            the very fact of the appearance of aviation weapons on the theater of operations gives the enemy such opportunities that oh

            For an Abrams loader, you have a broad outlook. But, to your chagrin, so far Ukraine has managed to fall in love with all (well, almost) aviation that it had. Also, Ukraine managed to fall in love with all (well, almost) "777" delivered to it. In the same way, she will love the newly delivered aircraft.

            It's karma, buddy... how is it not dead yet? wink laughing
            1. +3
              1 July 2022 15: 24
              Quote: Repellent
              you have a broad outlook

              Thank you. Soviet American education is the best in the world.
              Quote: Repellent
              Also, Ukraine managed to fall in love with all (well, almost) "777" delivered to it.

              Seriously? Very interesting, keep watching.
              Quote: Repellent
              so far, Ukraine has managed to fall in love with all (well, almost) aviation that it had

              Of course, you are right - this is a disgrace. It seems that it is not so difficult to put Soviet caponiers in order in 8 years, as they say, not rocket science.

              On the other hand, the SVO showed that Soviet-type aviation is useless in any case. Even relatively numerous. Such as the Russian Aerospace Forces.

              On the third hand, you did not pay attention to the fact that I was interested in aviation from the point of view of the emergence of modern weapons. The emergence of the airborne AGM-84, AGM-88 and AGM-158 in the air can give a new dynamic to the special military operation.
              1. +3
                1 July 2022 15: 32
                Quote: Negro
                that I was interested in aviation from the point of view of the emergence of modern means of destruction. The emergence of the airborne AGM-84, AGM-88 and AGM-158 in the air can give a new momentum to the special military operation

                What can be said here? You have a rich imagination request

                Quote: Negro
                American education is the best in the world

                laughing good laughing

                I worked a lot with Americans ... rare idiots, with rare exceptions request

                And, yes, I did guess: [email protected] Yes
                1. +2
                  1 July 2022 16: 00
                  Quote: Repellent
                  You have a rich imagination

                  I have a broad outlook. Although the planning of special military operations on the basis that they won't dare to shoot at us has its advantages, of course.
                  Quote: Repellent
                  And yes, I did guess.

                  Glad you have so much free time.
                  1. 0
                    1 July 2022 16: 14
                    Quote: Negro
                    Quote: Repellent
                    And yes, I did guess.

                    Glad you have so much free time

                    It didn't cost me a minute, they helped me... Ukrainian American wink
            2. -1
              1 July 2022 20: 05
              "Also, Ukraine managed to fall in love with all (well, almost) "777" delivered to it" firstly, this is not at all the case. Secondly, they can still deliver.
              1. Kim
                0
                4 July 2022 05: 54
                "I propose to sow a thousand hectares next year! let this one finally get drunk and burst!"
  15. -2
    1 July 2022 11: 27
    I can’t understand where in Ukraine a couple of hundred thousand trained military men, programmers, weapons and radar operators, high-level technicians will come from at once?
    It's 30-40 percent can't even shoot
    1. 0
      1 July 2022 12: 03
      I can’t understand where in Ukraine a couple of hundred thousand trained military men, programmers, weapons and radar operators, high-level technicians will come from at once?

      From there, where did they come from in Iraq and Libya ... It gives something else, where do you get such a holy confidence that if the equipment was supplied to it, mercenaries were not supplied? And this despite the fact that news is regularly received from the front that they are present there in commercial quantities
      1. -1
        1 July 2022 12: 26
        Quote from kristal
        From there, where did they come from in Iraq and Libya ... It gives something else, where do you get such a holy confidence that if the equipment was supplied to it, mercenaries were not supplied? And this despite the fact that news is regularly received from the front that they are present there in commercial quantities

        I know how Afghan technicians landed the entire fleet of American helicopters in just 2 years.
        Therefore, confidence, full of information
    2. +3
      1 July 2022 15: 34
      But why is everyone writing about some necessary tens and hundreds of thousands of mercenaries?
      What forces does the RF Armed Forces carry out? And the West does not need a complete military victory over Russia in Ukraine, they no longer count on it.
      But to tighten the SVO, inflict critical damage to the RF Armed Forces and the militias, to destroy the economy as much as possible and thin out the population of the LDNR - this is their task. So that the population of the Russian Federation and the South-East would clutch their heads and begin to say: "Fuck it .. figs we need such an NWO and such a liberation !!!"
      Here is the West's task now.
      But then someone will overcome ... Here, rather, the population of Europe can not stand it and declare the same thing to their "presidents" ... somewhere in the fall.
      1. -2
        1 July 2022 15: 51
        Quote: fax66
        But then who can overcome ... Here, rather, the population can not withstand Europe

        What is good for a Russian, a death for a German
    3. -2
      1 July 2022 16: 22
      Not at once. But in two years, if they are not finished, they will. Train the composition.
  16. 0
    1 July 2022 12: 17
    There was a good article on the site about the "help" of the West, it was calculated and what was transferred and what they plan to transfer. But that's not the point. The West finances Kyiv, that's where the main threat is. We can’t, moreover, they block us. In this situation, I personally don’t understand the Kremlin’s position at all. What sanctions have we introduced against countries that supply weapons and finance? Why, even at the Foreign Ministry level, we only declare, warn. Why are we, the Russian Federation, waging war with an "eye" to the West. For example, Poland said ... where is our position on this issue? Finns and Swedes are ready to join NATO, again "but we don't care." cunning plans.
    1. -1
      2 July 2022 10: 47
      Did "we" take all the relatives out of there or not? If not, then there they (relatives) can be made very uncomfortable. Therefore, as I think
      "... even at the level of the Foreign Ministry, we only declare, warn."
  17. +3
    1 July 2022 12: 26
    In my opinion, everything rests on the indecision of the West. If a decision is made in the USA, and the EU agrees that Russia needs to be squeezed by military means and it is better that she fights in Ukraine and with Ukraine, then they will find weapons, instructors, and volunteers ... Take at least Poland - it is quite possible , will readily get involved in a war on the territory of Ukraine, if the EU and the US behind the scenes promise it all kinds of support. And these are completely different layouts for counteraction - not Maxim machine guns and killed infantry fighting vehicles of the 60s.
    1. 0
      1 July 2022 16: 39
      Biden signed a Land Lease for Ukraine a few weeks ago and accepted funding for 40 billion for it, so in the future the Armed Forces of Ukraine may have Abrams and Bradley and Cobras and Strikers OTRK based on Himars thousands of artillery barrels and millions of ammunition for them and thousands of drones tens of thousands trucks and supply and transportation vehicles, as well as the same F 16 fighters and Apache attack helicopters in a simplified modification.
  18. +4
    1 July 2022 16: 32
    What we don't like

    Thus, several countries have provided Ukrainian formations with M113 armored personnel carriers and their modifications, various variants of the BMP-1 and similar vehicles, as well as other old armored vehicles.

    The author forgot that we ourselves are fighting on the BMP-1. But the BMP-1AM from the author of the BMP of the gods!

    In the recent past, the possibility of transferring Leopard 1 tanks and other equipment to Ukraine that has not met current requirements for a long time was discussed.

    And again, the author’s T62 is a tank of the gods, and Leo 1A5 is rubbish.
    Although Leo 1A5 is quite a good tank, even today. The gun is good, the SLA and communications are also on the level.
    OFL 105 F2 and M900A1 are nonsense, right? If anything, then our main OBPS is 3BM42, aka "Mango".
    1. 0
      1 July 2022 22: 41
      The T 62M has advantages, the first presence of shrapnel shells, the second KUV Sheksna with the Kastet missile, capable of penetrating 5 millimeters of armor at a distance of 850 kilometers, and its 115mm high-explosive fragmentation projectile is in no way inferior in power to the 122mm self-propelled gun Gvozdika, so the decision to equip volunteers and LDNR units with them is correct.
  19. 0
    1 July 2022 19: 24
    Everything again rests on half measures, no matter how you decorate it. There is a consumption of air defense systems / smart missiles / equipment / ammunition / software / people, finally. Why are we again trying to apply the noble dueling code of the 19th century to a drunken fight of the homeless. Us .... and we are getting stronger. Soon Luxembourg will present territorial claims to us. Or they will demand a corridor through Siberia for the delivery of ammunition to Ukraine. While we are carefully reclaiming village after village from Zelensky, various freaks from the EU are spitting in our faces. I don't know our secret plan, but we need to finish with nobility. It is in our power to leave Zelensky without electricity, communications, railway supplies.
    1. -3
      1 July 2022 22: 49
      The same would have been allocated by 1800 - 2000 OTRK missiles Caliber X 555 X 101 Kinzhalov and all the bridges of the railway station nodes in western Ukraine were most effectively destroyed and destroyed.
  20. 0
    1 July 2022 20: 00
    The author carefully convinces himself that everything is fine. Not convincing.
  21. -2
    2 July 2022 15: 10
    All this excludes the possibility of more extensive and useful assistance to the Kyiv regime.
    The first signs of such a situation could be noticed already in the first weeks of the Russian Special Operation, when foreign deliveries to Ukraine began. In the following months, the situation evolved, but its key features remained the same. And we can expect that in the foreseeable future there will be no fundamental changes. Foreign countries will continue to support the Kyiv regime, but real steps in this direction will be modest and ineffective.
    In fact, the reality is somewhat different from what is written: deliveries are intensifying, their range is expanding (more complex and advanced weapons systems appear), and intensive training of the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is taking place.
  22. -2
    2 July 2022 16: 12
    German self-propelled guns, which can be delivered only after 30 months, will no longer hit the battlefield.
    everything you need to know about the author's forecasts. He conscientiously kept silent about the reasons for leaving Serpentine ...
  23. 0
    4 July 2022 20: 08
    At least the old ones are supplied to them, no one helps us.
    So grinning at their supplies is at least not logical.
  24. 0
    20 August 2022 09: 03
    The Ukrainian army is able to stop any landings and deep breakthroughs of the Russian army, forcing us to conduct front-line operations of the type of the First World War.
    They are capable of hitting large columns, warehouses, headquarters, communication centers.
    They hold up well in urban areas.
    Our army has not solved the problem of storming or blockade of large cities.
    We have lost the initiative.
    Based on this, we can say that the supply of Western weapons was not useless.
    If they increase the pressure on our air defenses and communications centers, it will not be fun.

    Therefore, it is necessary to remove the pots from the heads, and maximize the mobilization of rear services, transfer industry to a war footing, and reduce the technological gap.