Bucephalus and BTR-82A: conceptual confrontation in Ukraine

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Source: www.wpristav.ru

The best "Bucephalus" is a dead "Bucephalus"


Before comparing Russian and Ukrainian armored personnel carriers, it is necessary to understand what place the Bucephalus occupies in the Bandera army. On the side of Ukrainian nationalism, a wide range of outright junk is involved. We offer a small selection of the most ancient equipment, the losses of which are documented.

So, by the beginning of the summer, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had lost at least four BTR-60s out of six available, and they were captured intact. Most likely, the vehicles were either abandoned by the crew during the retreat, or abandoned in disrepair. Interestingly, out of 15 lost vehicles of the next generation BTR-70, three were destroyed. The rest ended up with the allied forces in an untouched state. Due to the greater distribution of the BTR-80, the share of losses in battle is already almost 50% or 19 vehicles out of 41. Twenty-two armored personnel carriers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were thrown onto the battlefield in good condition. In the future, the machines replenished the fleet of allied troops.



It is curious that Bandera lost most of the equipment in the first two months of the special operation, and the BTR-60 and BTR-70 by the end of March. And if the modest stocks of the "sixty" are exhausted, then the number of BTR-70 in Ukraine reaches two hundred. Approximately the same number of vehicles of the eightieth series are in the reserve of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Guard. Another question is what condition these machines are in and whether they are capable of conducting combat work at all.






Ancient armored vehicles are still found in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Source: postimg.cc

The modern BTR-3, a further development of the concept of Soviet armored vehicles, is quite rightly used at the forefront, which is why it suffers the greatest losses. Bandera lost at least 17 armored vehicles, of which 11 were destroyed. This is a lot - in total there are no more than a hundred such armored personnel carriers in Ukraine. Note that these statistics are based solely on photo and video evidence presented in the public domain. Therefore, the losses of Ukrainian nationalists in light armored vehicles can be much higher. But definitely no less.







Bucephalus and BTR-82A: conceptual confrontation in Ukraine




Destroyed and captured "Bucephali". Source: postimg.cc

Now about the main character of today stories - armored personnel carrier "Bucephalus" (BTR-4E). The machine was adopted by Ukraine in 2012 and since then has been sold in the army with a circulation of 100-110 copies. It is authentically known that 39 "Bucephalus" Bandera lost irretrievably. At the same time, only 14 copies were destroyed, the rest were captured by the Allied forces. And, by the way, they are quite effectively used against the former owners. In addition, one BSEM-4K ambulance was destroyed, and one armored "medic" BMM-4S passed into the hands of the allied forces intact. This special equipment was created on the basis of "Bucephalus".

Favorite horse of Macedonian


There is one very important point in the conceptual comparison of the domestic BTR-83A and the Ukrainian BTR-4/4E Bucephalus. In fairness, the combat capabilities of the Russian armored personnel carrier should be compared with the Bandera BTR-3. These are machines of the same class, which are a continuation of the concept of the Soviet BTR-80. And it’s more logical to combine Bucephalus with the latest Russian Boomerang, which, by the way, they dreamed of putting into production back in 2015.

In this confrontation, the domestic machine is completely preferable to the Bandera counterpart. But we see the Boomerang platforms so far only at parades, and in the Military Acceptance program. But the BTR-4E "Bucephalus" is fighting, and quite well. Restrainedly positive reviews about this car and the new owners of the allied forces.

A little about the design of the armored personnel carrier. Sadly, but the Ukrainian car is a step forward in comparison with the Russian BTR-82A. First of all, in terms of layout solutions. Engineers of the Kharkov Design Bureau of Mechanical Engineering radically changed the filling of the armored personnel carrier, the roots of which go back to the Soviet "eighties". The armored car was brought as close as possible to the BMP, the engine was moved to the center of the body, and hinged doors were designed at the stern. This is a fundamental improvement that allows infantry to safely leave the Bucephalus.

For comparison: the BTR-82A retained hatches for landing on the sides of the hull. Given the specifics of the modern use of armored personnel carriers, when they and Tanks support with fire, and city buildings are stormed, it looks like an anachronism. However, who now uses the troop compartment of armored personnel carriers for its intended purpose? At the same time, the placement of the engine compartment in the middle of the Bucephalus forces you to carry air with you in the so-called passageway.

The advantages of the armored personnel carrier include the convenience of the control compartment, which the Ukrainians copied from the German TPz 1 Fuchs. The workplaces of the commander and driver are equipped with hinged doors and panoramic armored glazing. The most interesting thing is that such amenities were abandoned in the promising BTR-4MV, which was supposed to become the successor to the Bucephalus.






BTR-4E "Bucephalus". Source: btvt.info


Location of the BTR-4E chassis compartments.
1 - department of management; 2 - passageway; 3 - fighting compartment; 4 - engine-transmission compartment. Source: btvt.info

An important advantage of the Ukrainian armored personnel carrier can be considered the engine of the 3TD series. This is a two-stroke turbo piston diesel engine with a capacity of 500 hp. With. performed by 3TD-3 and 600 l. With. in version 3TD-4. The engine was developed in the famous Kharkov design bureau for engine building on the basis of the tank 5TDF.

Recall that this unique engine with two crankshafts and counter-moving pistons was created in the Soviet Union in parallel with the T-64 tank. The design raised many questions related to low reliability, operational features and cost. Nevertheless, the Ukrainian engine builders did not abandon this concept and slowly completed the 5TDF in Kharkov. Two out of five cylinders were removed from the engine and a whole line of 3TDs was received. By the way, work on this project was going on back in Soviet times, but it was only possible to bring the engines to serial fitness only by the beginning of the 2000s.

The plans included the total replacement of Soviet engines with the Ukrainian series - 3TD-1 (280 hp) was intended for the BTR-70, BTR-80; 3DT-2 (400 hp) - for BMP-2, "Shilka"; 3DT-3 (500 hp) was considered for artillery tractors and even for the American M113; 3DT-4 (600 hp) - potentially for BMP-3 and 2S3 Acacia self-propelled guns. For "Bucephalus" borrowed the last two models of 500 and 600 liters. with., which are unified by the cylinder-piston group with tank engines 5TDF and 6TD.

If we compare the Russian 300-horsepower diesel KamAZ-740.14-300, which is installed on the BTR-82A, with Ukrainian counterparts, then the 3DT-3 / -4 look more perfect. At least on paper. First of all, “suitcases” (the slang name for Kharkov motors) are much more powerful and take up less space. The overall power of the 3TD-3 is 762 hp. s. / m3, 3TD-4 is already 915 liters. s./m3.

Naturally, powerful motors provide Bucephalus with a similar level of armor protection with high mobility. Specific power can reach an impressive 28 hp. s. / t, for the BTR-82A - no more than 20 liters. s./t. An important advantage of the Ukrainian armored personnel carrier is its Parus combat module, which, in addition to a 30-mm cannon and a 7,62-mm machine gun, is equipped with a 40-mm grenade launcher and a Barrier ATGM with four missiles.

For this reason, some experts call "Bucephalus" a wheeled infantry fighting vehicle. This may be true if you do not take into account the bulletproof armor of the vehicle. The conditional "volley mass" and its lethal effect will be much more serious than the effectiveness of the Russian 30-mm gun with a 7,62-mm machine gun from the BTR-82A. Imagine a hypothetical confrontation between machines on the battlefield. Of course, Bucephalus will have a slight advantage due to the length of the ATGM arm, but in most cases everything will depend on the reaction of the crews.

Both cars are actually protected from bullets, and whoever first fires a burst of cannon at the enemy is guaranteed to be the winner. The main caliber of the BTR-4E is a pirated copy of the Russian 2A72 cannon, made at a completely different technological level. This increases the likelihood of jamming and failure, which has happened more than once during the fighting. If we compare fire control systems, then here the machines have approximate parity.

A few spoons of tar


The reader may get the false impression that "Bucephalus" is a real "wunderwaffe" (miraculousweapon) of the Kyiv regime. Actually it is not. Any technique, especially combat, is a set of compromises. And the BTR-4E is the most striking confirmation of this. Even during the development of the armored personnel carrier, a lot of serious shortcomings were revealed. The high-tech 3TD-3 engine with excellent liter power consumes oil mercilessly - the average consumption is 1–1,2 l / h.

The resource of the engine, created on the basis of the tank, barely reaches 1 hours, and the gearbox is designed for only 000 thousand kilometers. Kharkiv engine builders are not able to produce such a complex engine in the required quantity and, most importantly, with high quality. The products of the KMDB plant were rejected on average in half of the cases. That is why a German Deutz diesel engine and an Allison automatic transmission were installed on the Bucephalus part. Engine power 20 l. with., but the resource is much larger, and the unit requires less maintenance.


BTR-82A. Source: shraibikus.com

If 3TD-3 is unified with tank diesel engines, and this is presented as an achievement of the Ukrainian defense industry, then there are even fewer problems with the repair of the above-mentioned and proven KamAZ-740.14‑300. Spare parts for the engine can be found at any auto repair shop.

The whole history of Bucephalus is an attempt to bring outdated equipment closer to NATO standards with little bloodshed. Despite the complete reconfiguration, the armored personnel carrier did not receive adequate mine protection. Only in the troop compartment, the chairs were attached to the ceiling, but the legs of the fighters were left on the floor, which is fraught with injuries during explosions. The problem is the insufficient height of the body of the armored vehicle.

The mass of the BTR-4E exceeds 20 tons, which affects the patency of the vehicle. During the special operation, especially in the initial period, several Bucephalus simply got stuck in the mud, from which the lighter BTR-82A would have got out without difficulty. Due to the heavy front axles, the Ukrainian armored personnel carrier buries its nose in soft soils and is then unable to get out on its own.








A few more Bucephalus from the special operation zone. The date on the photo marks the day of death/captivity. Source: postimg.cc

The buoyancy of the armored personnel carrier also leaves much to be desired. The waterline runs just below the upper edge of the body, which eliminates the use of the slightest disturbance on the water. The BTR-82A swims much better, but, like its opponent, it has serious problems when it comes ashore from the water. The Bucephalus suspension, unified with the predecessor of the BTR-80, was not ready to withstand the large mass of the vehicle. Since 2014, the repair of suspension units in combat conditions has become a headache for the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Guard.


Approximately this should be the armored personnel carrier of the special operation "Z". The photo shows an experimental Russian BTR-87. Source: missiles.ru

And finally, the main thing is the manufacturing quality of the BTR-4E. The fact is that at the Malyshev Plant, almost 100% of the equipment dates back to the times of the USSR. Plus chronic lack of money and greed management. As a result, some of the Bucephalus hulls were welded with cracks, and some were generally assembled from the BTR-60 hulls. Evil tongues claim that such cannibalism has become the norm after 2014. The Iraqis, who dared to purchase a batch of Ukrainian armored personnel carriers, simply flooded the design bureau with complaints, and some of the vehicles were simply returned.

However, the shortcomings of the BTR-4E in no way set off the total obsolescence of the BTR-82A. The Russian armored vehicle, although assembled from proven solutions, is completely unsuitable for the role of the workhorse of the Z special operation.

It is interesting that in 2017 we could have our own Bucephalus - this is an experimental BTR-87, in many respects similar in layout to the BMP-1. But it was decided to abandon the project, obviously in favor of the more promising Boomerang. The result of such castling is visible to all.
109 comments
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  1. +7
    18 June 2022 04: 54
    But it was decided to abandon the project, obviously in favor of the more promising Boomerang. The result of such castling is visible to all.
    Well, yes, a stronger Boomerang is more valuable on the battlefield. But expensive and you need to move. Yes, and do not go on foot, there is an obsolescence of the BTR-82A. But these are our losses in people ..... angry
    1. +6
      18 June 2022 13: 28
      Bucephalus is the favorite horse of Alexander the Great.
      Out of fear for his life, Bucephalus was not allowed to fight; Alexander the Great went to battle on other horses.
      Bucephalus died in India, unable to withstand the heat and stuffiness

      what
      Somehow the name for a combat vehicle is not very suitable.
      Here for parades - yes. The name is perfect
  2. +11
    18 June 2022 05: 29
    For me, the cars of the front line should be with automatic transmission. And it is more convenient for the driver, and any driver will be able to cope in a crisis situation.
    1. KCA
      +2
      18 June 2022 05: 40
      What are the problems of driving an armored personnel carrier with a manual transmission? I, without a license, having one-time rides on passenger cars behind me, taxied 60 and 80 crossroads without any problems, even the 60th allowed me to drop the clutch and start from 1st gear without touching the gas pedal
      1. +2
        18 June 2022 05: 47
        So I went to 66m).
        And I already flew on 4320, the convenience is different.
    2. -5
      18 June 2022 06: 03
      And if the automatic transmission pierces with a bullet and the oil flows out ... how will the car move after that?
      1. +7
        19 June 2022 06: 52
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        And if the automatic transmission pierces with a bullet and the oil flows out ... how will the car move after that?
        And if the manual transmission is pierced by a bullet and the oil leaks out, the wedge of the box after overheating (from increased friction) of the parts is 100% guaranteed.
        And if an armored personnel carrier with an automatic transmission, or a manual transmission catches a 152mm mine in the frontal projection - from which checkpoint will it leave further?
        Conclusion: laughing
        movement is possible (with "dry" manual transmission, or automatic transmission)
        1. towing on a rigid hitch (while preventing the transmission of rotation to the secondary shaft of the gearbox)
        2. towing on a flexible hitch (while preventing the transmission of rotation to the secondary shaft of the gearbox)
        3. towing with partial loading (when preventing the transfer of rotation to the secondary shaft of the gearbox)
        4. evacuation with full loading
  3. +38
    18 June 2022 05: 34
    They say they dig in Ukraine, it looks like they dig even cooler here. Neither "Boomerang" nor drones in the required number. . It's time to restore SMERSH.
    1. -5
      19 June 2022 06: 16
      Yes, it wouldn’t hurt to check the author himself for puffiness
      It is authentically known that 39 "Bucephalus" Bandera lost irretrievably. At the same time, only 14 copies were destroyed, the rest were captured by the allied forces ... In addition, one BSEM-4K ambulance was destroyed, and one armored "medic" BMM-4C passed into the hands of the allied forces intact.

      Those. the author publicly declares that the units of the Republic of Armenia and the people's militia, in violation of the Geneva Convention of 12.08.01949, which is included in the customary norms of international law, which makes it mandatory for execution not only for the signatory countries, but for all other countries involved in the military conflicts, firing at ambulances??? belay fool The author is aware that the Hague Tribunal shines for this act and that this, in principle, discredits the RF Armed Forces? Or him as a deputy state. thoughts, you can make such statements and Art. 280.3 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation does not apply to him?
      1. +3
        19 June 2022 17: 13
        Quote: Dante
        Those. the author publicly declares that the units of the Republic of Armenia and the people's militia, in violation of the Geneva Convention of 12.08.01949, which is included in the customary norms of international law, which makes it mandatory for execution not only for the signatory countries, but for all other countries involved in the military conflicts, firing at ambulances???

        The rally is around the corner. ©
        The ambulance could simply burn out as a result of the shelling of the location. Like this BMM-70 "Saint Nicholas" at Azovstal:
        1. 0
          19 June 2022 21: 50
          The ambulance could simply burn out as a result of shelling of the location

          And this is for the prosecutor to figure out what the deputy of the state, who is not respected by me, wanted to say. thoughts)))
      2. 0
        23 June 2022 21: 36
        Quote: Dante
        The author is aware that the Hague Tribunal shines for this act

        The International Criminal Court (proto-people, the Hague Tribunal, abbreviated as the ICC) is the first permanent international body of criminal justice, whose competence includes the prosecution of those responsible for genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, as well as crimes of aggression. Established under the Rome Statute, adopted in 1998. Russia, the US and many other countries have not ratified the Rome Statute. Well, what side to us is the ICC? That's right - none. And the "nurse" could be destroyed at night or in conditions of poor visibility.
      3. +1
        24 June 2022 11: 27
        Or him as a deputy state. thoughts, you can make such statements and Art. 280.3 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation does not apply to him?

        Exactly. Officially and openly, deputies have immunity, the deprivation of which is a separate procedure.
  4. +4
    18 June 2022 05: 45
    Approximately this should be the armored personnel carrier of the special operation "Z". The photo shows an experimental Russian BTR-87.
    As for me, about the same.
    1. +3
      18 June 2022 11: 08
      as for me, how to constantly increase the mass and dimensions of equipment,
      it’s easier to equip a fighter with at least a passive exoskeleton and hang armor (boron carbide)
      it will definitely be smaller and more maneuverable
      ATGMs and even MANPADS can’t be enough to destroy such infantry
      But, these are already wars of the 2030s, how Ratnik-3 will be brought at least to trial operation
      .
      when 100% protected from 7,62x54 and 122 mm fragments, at least 50/50 from 152 mm fragments
      - it will be another war, not a cheat for the current infantry

      ,
      example: assault suit "Voin-KM" 35 kg., for the FSB, the previous "Warrior" weighed 72 kg
      protects against bullets 7,62x54, small fragments up to 550 m / s. 100% round
      - even here to integrate the exoskeleton and add armor - Terminator
  5. +13
    18 June 2022 05: 54
    here the BTR-4E "Bucephalus" is fighting, and quite well

    There is a video where our infantry and armored vehicles were poured with fire from his cannon ... a very unpleasant video.
    My heart skipped a beat for the lives of our fighters hiding behind cover.
    1. +1
      18 June 2022 08: 39
      How could the BTR-82, for example, be watered, it is not clear how a separate random combat situation can affect the overall assessment of the project.
      1. +8
        18 June 2022 16: 21
        Aiming the cannon of the Ukrainian BTR-4E is an order of magnitude more convenient, as is the search for a target, which gives it an advantage.
    2. +7
      18 June 2022 09: 08
      Unfortunately, there, at the BMP-1, the turret was turned to the side and the gunner-operator missed the appearance of the armored personnel carrier. The more advanced BMP-3 has two forward machine guns, and enhanced armor, and in a similar situation the outcome could be different.
      1. +11
        18 June 2022 16: 26
        There is a video where the BTR-4E destroys our armored personnel carrier and the tank on board.

        Plus, the Ukrainian BTR-4E in the fire control system, there is a large monitor where the picture from the multi-channel sight is displayed, it is convenient to detect targets and hit them and control the battlefield, everything is much easier than in the BTR-82, watching through a tank sight resting on it with a headset.

        The advantage may be in a few seconds, but it decides.
        1. -6
          18 June 2022 22: 14
          This is a return to the almost eternal dispute, which is better, a manned module with a tank sight or a remotely controlled one with a monitor. So, the conclusion about the indisputable advantage of a monitor with a picture is somewhat premature. The picture from the monitor is good at night, and during the day it would be better to have a confident orientation in space, looking directly into the optics, which is not always observed when looking at the monitor.
          1. +1
            19 June 2022 11: 40
            All videos about the combat use of the BTR-4E were filmed during the day and, judging by them, the weapon operator has no problems with finding targets at all, even despite the battle situation and a bunch of fires around, using a multi-channel sight, the operator instantly detected both the infantry and the armored personnel carrier and the tank, and all this struck and no one fired back.

            There is only one minus of the BTR-4E with an uninhabited module - it is a little more expensive, but all this pays off with a victory in battle.

            Fortunately, Ukraine does not have many of these armored personnel carriers.
        2. -2
          19 June 2022 09: 34
          as soon as a person learns to distinguish binoculars from an optical sight, and an optical sight from an arithmetic divider lens ... he is an "expert". Were you in both "devices"? Still - size is not the main thing, often in war
  6. +29
    18 June 2022 06: 06
    I lower the water about the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Industry and directly into the drawbar:
    But it was decided to abandon the project, obviously, in favor of the more promising "Boomerang". The result of such castling is visible to all.

    For the past three decades, Russia has only been abandoning some "promising" projects in favor of others - "more promising", the purpose of which is to splurge on parades in front of a draped mausoleum.
    Yes, good technology is expensive. But VVP does not drive Lada-Kalina, but chose Aurus for himself ...
    Do you know why the RF Armed Forces pass expensive weapons with such a creak? The costs are high, the responsibility is high, and for manipulating quality (replacing it with Chinese counterparts) or playing b / g undermining, they can simply pull up the testicles (clamp in a vise in the shed, remove the clamping handle, leave the bow saw on the workbench and set fire to the shed together with content)...
    And in a country where the phrase:
    “I led you, I will answer for everything” - it’s right in the throat with a stake ...

    There are few who want to answer. That is why they are “forcibly retained” in government positions with high salaries until their final flight from the country (the names of the defendants who unexpectedly left the country and bearers of state secrets in the UK).
    *****
    When I see such welded gratings, suspended logs on Russian armored vehicles, something hot obscures my eyes, and my hands reach for the club...
    1. -16
      18 June 2022 08: 42
      What are you carrying?
      GDP moves on a Mercedes. In Kurganets and Boomerang, as well as in KAMAZ, the main units of foreign production, however, no one is going to pull anyone up :)
      1. +2
        19 June 2022 11: 47
        What Mercedes, what year do you live in, comrade?
    2. +1
      27 June 2022 14: 09
      well, yes, instead of the btr-90 they began to take the btr-82a, although the btr-90 on the SVO would be a child prodigy .. Now, normally, you need to switch to the btr-87 as a multifunctional vehicle and the armored personnel carrier is still finishing an incomprehensible new armored personnel carrier
  7. -9
    18 June 2022 06: 31
    It seems to me that BMP 1 Busurmanin, in fact, is the BMP 87. And also participates in a special operation
    1. +6
      18 June 2022 06: 36
      How is the BMP-1 a replacement for the BTR87?
      1. +8
        19 June 2022 11: 46
        BTR-87 is the last century, we need a heavy armored personnel carrier, the armor of which holds a 30-mm cannon and fragments from a 155-mm projectile + various modules from 12,7 to 30-mm and 57-mm cannons, including a module from Derivation-Air Defense and mortars.

        But as practice shows, it is not necessary to swim for him.

        Let not the entire motorized rifle battalion or regiment be on such heavy armored personnel carriers, let a part - for example, for shock companies and battalions, and let everything on floating armored personnel carriers be reconnaissance.

        Let the reconnaissance battalion seize the bridgehead and, together with the engineers, provide a pontoon crossing, and attack battalions on heavy armored personnel carriers with tanks and air defense systems, electronic warfare and everything else will develop the offensive.

        We don't need cardboard armor!!!
        1. +2
          19 June 2022 16: 30
          If there was an opportunity, I gave you 10 pluses.
        2. +1
          27 June 2022 14: 10
          the problem is that by the time such an armored personnel carrier is developed and implemented, all enemies will switch to 40/45 mm guns.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +5
    18 June 2022 06: 39
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    here the BTR-4E "Bucephalus" is fighting, and quite well

    There is a video where our infantry and armored vehicles were poured with fire from his cannon ... a very unpleasant video.
    My heart skipped a beat for the lives of our fighters hiding behind cover.

    I also came across a similar video several times and it was insanely painful for ours.
  10. +9
    18 June 2022 06: 42
    Many thanks for the detailed analysis of both the armored personnel carrier and the losses.
    Unfortunately, only now more balanced opinions have begun to appear on the Ukrainian defense industry, which before the war was mostly only criticized or not taken seriously at all. Bucephalus turned out to be a very unpleasant enemy, our fighters repeatedly mark the shaft of fire created by his automatic guns.
    1. +11
      18 June 2022 07: 45
      our fighters repeatedly mark the shaft of fire created by his automatic guns.

      Thanks to the additional stiffening frame, the 30 mm autocannon has better fire accuracy in automatic mode. And the presence of AGS-17 allows you to fire from closed positions or cover the enemy behind shelters. This is the right decision in the choice of weapons, versatility and simplicity.
  11. +8
    18 June 2022 06: 49
    The author forgot to mention another drawback of the BTR-4 with a 3TD engine, this is its great noise, which is why it is called the "roaring cow" ...
  12. IVZ
    +3
    18 June 2022 07: 08
    Yes, the intellectual potential of Kharkiv residents has not gone away. Fortunately, the state of the Ukrainian economy does not allow it to be used. But this is not a reason for the Russian Federation to delay the development and implementation of new technology. Our main enemy is not the Ukrainian Nazis.
  13. +1
    18 June 2022 07: 25
    This is a two-stroke turbo piston diesel

    Hey, author, did they come up with a new type of engine? Maybe just a turbocharged diesel? And then it gets scary...
    1. +11
      18 June 2022 09: 33
      Quote: Konnick
      Hey, author, did they come up with a new type of engine?

      No, not the author.
      Kharkov Design Bureau for Engine Building calls them that





      Source: manufacturer's website.
      http://hkbd.com.ua/dizeli-dlya-tankov

      Research Institute of Engines as part of Uralvagonzavod also produces turbo piston engines


      Look for information about the M-305 engine of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors.
      It is also called a turbo piston.

      Hey, Konnick reader.
      I recommend that you first study the issue, then comment.
      Shame only in vain
      1. +7
        18 June 2022 09: 54
        Two-stroke turbocharged diesel engines cannot be turbo-piston, since in a turbo-piston, the piston compressor serves as a supercharger for the turbine, which is the main source of power, and not vice versa, like in a conventional turbodiesel, where air is forced into the cylinders of a diesel engine by a turbine that uses the power of the exhaust gases from the diesel. I worked at a factory that repaired diesel engines D-6, D-12 and of course 2D100 with turbochargers and counter pistons. And no one called this hundredth turbo piston. Diesel turbocharged from a turbocharger should not be confused with a turbo piston engine with a supercharger from a reciprocating compressor driven by a gas turbine engine. And I don’t need to talk about CIAM, I was there, in Lytkarino, several times last year, a pitiful sight. And I have a specialized education, unlike journalists who write about engines and call engines whatever they like.
        1. +1
          18 June 2022 13: 15
          And I don’t need to talk about CIAM, I was there, in Lytkarino, several times last year, a pitiful sight.
          I also occasionally go there, in Turaevo, but more and more on aircraft engines. Didn't see any particular breakdown.
        2. 0
          18 June 2022 16: 33
          Your opinion about the engines of the UTD-20 series and subsequent ones is interesting, as a control system for wheeled chassis.
          1. +1
            19 June 2022 11: 16
            I didn’t particularly encounter it, once the city authorities asked to evaluate it for repair with a subsequent installation on Ikarus, those had run out of their opponents. There were a lot of infantry fighting vehicles at the military base and they wanted to move them to urban transport. Our "counsel" concluded that they are of little use for repair. We refused this order, although for some reason they praised its reliability on the Internet.
            1. +2
              23 June 2022 15: 19
              Quote: Konnick
              Once the city authorities asked to evaluate it for repair with the subsequent installation on Ikarus, they ran out of their opponents.


              yeah boss...
              but Deutz is very cool, even in the Hungarian version
              runs on Ikarus in 2 million km were not uncommon
        3. +3
          19 June 2022 10: 59
          More than once I "faced" with the definition: "turbocharged diesel", "turbocharged engine" ...! But I don’t remember (!) that I previously “met” with the concept of “turbo-piston engine / diesel engine”, although I do not completely exclude the possibility of such a “meeting” in the past ... I consider the name “turbocharged engine / diesel engine” technically more correct and logical! By the way, in NATO, using a gas turbine and a compressor from the turbocharging system of auto engines, turbojet mini-engines are designed for relatively small-caliber missiles!
        4. +3
          23 June 2022 15: 14
          yes, it is: mechanical boost (many options) and gas turbine, sometimes they use both - then they talk about combined boost
          but no turbocharged, turbo piston engines, as they say today - no
      2. 0
        18 June 2022 10: 30
        It is also called a turbo piston.


        Aw Konnick reader.
        I recommend that you first study the issue, then comment.
        Shame only in vain


        Shame on those who call a conventional turbocharged diesel "turbo-piston diesel". Once again, a turbo piston engine is a gas turbine engine with a piston supercharger. Shame on you, repeating this for half-educated journalists.
        1. -2
          18 June 2022 11: 03
          Quote: Konnick
          Shame on you, repeating this for half-educated journalists.

          I gave you data from official sites.

          Why don't you call the Engine Research Institute and discuss the terms directly with them from their website?
          1. +5
            18 June 2022 11: 38
            Sites are not written by engineers, here is the correct description of this engine. By the way, Uralvagonzavod is not a criterion for me.

            I'm not sure that the site you are referring to is a KB site, and not some IT specialists. No engine specialist would call a supercharged diesel engine a turbo piston diesel engine. Even the name on the website is 6TD-3, although it is called 3TD, 3-cylinder TurboDiesel.
            1. -6
              18 June 2022 16: 28
              Quote: Konnick
              I'm not sure that the site you are referring to is the KB site

              And I'm not sure that your screen above is not from some IT specialists.

              Here is a link to my source.
              Study, send them requests
              https://www.niidmsk.ru/o-nas-2
            2. +2
              18 June 2022 16: 36
              Quote: Konnick
              Sites are not written by engineers, here is the correct description of this engine.


              Did you come across this book?
              Год издания: 1958
              Before the invention of the Internet and IT specialists.
              And in order to publish a book in those years ...

              Or for you and comrade. Rustle is not a criterion, like Uralvagonzavod?

              1. +2
                19 June 2022 16: 26
                Or for you and comrade. Rustle is not a criterion, like Uralvagonzavod?

                Completely agree with the picture. Turbine output shaft, reciprocating compressor without crankshafts, fuel injection chamber into compressed air from a diesel driven reciprocating compressor. Now look at the pictures in your previous posts. It's just a diesel engine with crankshafts and turbochargers for boosting, and with two crankshafts.
                1. -2
                  19 June 2022 16: 55
                  Quote: Konnick
                  Completely agree with the picture.

                  What about the title of the book?
  14. +4
    18 June 2022 07: 32
    What is there in Ukraine is purple to me. Putin has been in power for 20 years and is still engaged in the modernization of Soviet galoshes. So he got his "galoshes" on. But palaces, yachts and high fences are definitely of the Putin era!
  15. +4
    18 June 2022 08: 09
    Something like this should be an armored personnel carrier - Banderovoz am
    ][
  16. +5
    18 June 2022 08: 22
    It would be better if they didn’t close the BTR-90 project at one time and produced it instead of the BTR-82A
    1. +1
      19 June 2022 11: 50
      Instead of instead of
  17. -3
    18 June 2022 08: 37
    For an attempt to be put into service in the Russian Federation, an armored personnel carrier with a front MTO should definitely be put against the wall. The best armored personnel carrier is the BTR-90. You just need to supplement this type with a support vehicle with a 152 mm mortar-PU ATGM, UAV and loitering ammunition + support vehicles with a medium location MTO and weakened armor and weapons (medical, supplies).
    The front-engine layout has the following fatal flaws:
    1. Mass center shifted to the front axles - low cross-country ability, handling, high tire and suspension wear.
    2. Unsatisfactory booking - since it is impossible to increase the mass of armor on the front of the hull.
    3. Relatively large mass, and small useful internal volume.
    4.Low mobility.
    5. Low reliability of uninhabited modules in combat conditions - any malfunction cannot be eliminated from the inside, some of the weapons do not have protection against bullets and shrapnel (PU ATGMs).
    Actually, all of the above was confirmed in practice during the SVO.
    1. +5
      18 June 2022 11: 46
      The front-engine layout has the following fatal flaws:

      How about Strikers, Boomerangs??
      Now no one in the world produces armored personnel carriers of a medium-engined layout.
      1. +2
        18 June 2022 12: 38
        Quote: 3danimal
        Now no one in the world produces armored personnel carriers of a medium-engined layout.

        Previously produced BTR Ratel. Actually - Bucephalus. We stamp - Typhoon-6x6.
        1. -4
          18 June 2022 18: 54
          So Typhoon is just a slightly altered BTR-80.
          I meant new, designed from scratch.
          The layout of Stryker and others is definitely more profitable.
          1. +4
            18 June 2022 19: 50
            Quote: 3danimal
            So Typhoon is just a slightly altered BTR-80.

            Are you serious now? Maybe they meant BTR-82A?
            Because here is Typhoon-K 6x6:


            Quote: 3danimal
            The layout of Stryker and others is definitely more profitable.

            Exactly until it gets into trouble (especially in the city and on a narrow road): there is only one way out and it is completely shot through. Side exits give more chances for the survival of the landing. Actually, the same Ratel has 3 exits - 2 side and 1 aft.
            The aft layout is good only in a head-on collision. That's just no one in their right mind will parachute from a car in battle if it is possible to do it in advance.
            1. 0
              18 June 2022 20: 46
              I think it's about
              https://ria.ru/20130829/959535646.html

              The armored car resembles a KAMAZ, with an engine under the driver's cab request
              Exactly until it gets into trouble (especially in the city and on a narrow road): there is only one way out and it is completely shot through.

              Place the armored personnel carrier with the most protected part in the direction of fire. Do not stick it on an untested street (squeezed between the houses and the tank will be burned to you).
              The aft layout is good only in a head-on collision. That's just no one in their right mind will parachute from a car in battle if it is possible to do it in advance.

              Ok, but fighting in the fields is a top priority.
              And you can land faster through the aft exit, along the ramp. Now the number of different body kit on the fighters has greatly increased (if the ensign did not take care of this reduction body kit).
              You can book a Stryker against 30mm guns in front and 14,5mm on the sides.
              And what will happen to the fighters in the BTR-82a, or in the Typhoon when fired from the KPVT? Will it make a difference whether they are on the armor or inside?
              1. 0
                19 June 2022 00: 51
                Quote: 3danimal
                And you can land faster through the aft exit, along the ramp. Now the number of different body kit on the fighters has greatly increased (if the ensign did not take care of this reduction body kit).
                You can book a Stryker against 30mm guns in front and 14,5mm on the sides.
                And what will happen to the fighters in the BTR-82a, or in the Typhoon when fired from the KPVT? Will it make a difference whether they are on the armor or inside?

                1. You are partly right. But, the problem is that with a "frontal" meeting, there is a landing line, and if you get into an ambush, the main thing is to get out faster.
                2. Typhoon with additional booking protects from 30 mm.
                3. BTR-82 with additional booking - unknown. Now his forehead holds from 12.7 mm.
  18. +4
    18 June 2022 09: 09
    Comments from people who have exploited "bucephalus" are mostly obscene. A heavy module at the stern, a very heavy load on the last two axles - shock absorbers and other parts of the suspension "fly". The model itself is large and lightly armored - it fails even when fired upon by a light "shooter". The stabilization system is also very so-so.
  19. +3
    18 June 2022 09: 50
    Quote: TermNachTER
    Comments from people who have exploited "bucephalus" are mostly obscene. A heavy module at the stern, a very heavy load on the last two axles - shock absorbers and other parts of the suspension "fly". The model itself is large and lightly armored - it fails even when fired upon by a light "shooter". The stabilization system is also very so-so.

    The Hohlobanderites also complain that after the turn of their guns, the sight goes away and it is necessary to shoot.
  20. +3
    18 June 2022 10: 26
    Thank you. Competent sensible assessment.
  21. +7
    18 June 2022 10: 29
    For comparison: the BTR-82A retained hatches for landing on the sides of the hull. Given the specifics of the modern use of armored personnel carriers, when they support tanks with fire and storm city buildings, this looks like an anachronism.

    It's nonsense to use armored personnel carriers instead of infantry fighting vehicles. They have different levels of armor protection and different tasks.
  22. +5
    18 June 2022 10: 52
    The Ukrainian engine is two-stroke, so it consumes not only oil but also fuel, and you can’t do anything about it, the new one still runs, and if it’s not an engine with mileage, but one big problem!
  23. -3
    18 June 2022 11: 43
    Bandera army

    So now it’s not the national battalions that are fighting against the Russian Armed Forces, but the whole Bandera army?
    Or is it the Armed Forces of Ukraine, to which the president addressed with a proposal to carry out an armed seizure of power?
    Eternal scatter in wording negative
  24. +2
    18 June 2022 12: 21
    Quote from: New-pechkin
    How is the BMP-1 a replacement for the BTR87?

    Yes, apparently the person was just in a hurry and did not indicate that we are talking about the Epoch combat module. Why blame him for this. We all rush sometimes.
  25. +11
    18 June 2022 12: 23
    1.
    For comparison: the BTR-82A retained hatches for landing on the sides of the hull. Given the specifics of the modern use of armored personnel carriers, when they support tanks with fire and storm city buildings, this looks like an anachronism

    It's hard to agree. It is in the city / on a narrow road that the ability to quickly leave a car that has come under fire or a wrecked car, through an impenetrable hatch from the side, is much better than climbing through the only hatch in the stern, which is shot through from the flank.

    2.
    Of course, Bucephalus will have a slight advantage due to the length of the ATGM arm

    This is not a "small", but a serious advantage.

    3.
    Only in the troop compartment, the chairs were attached to the ceiling, but the legs of the fighters were left on the floor, which is fraught with injuries during detonation

    The author, unfortunately, did not voice that the BTR-82A holds 1,5 kg under the bottom (confirmed by tests).

    4.
    If we compare fire control systems, then here the machines have approximate parity.

    No. Not parity. The pighorse has a teplok, our BTR-82A does not have a teplok.

    5.
    Both cars are actually protected from bullets, and whoever first fires a burst of cannon at the enemy is guaranteed to be the winner.

    Yes and no. The pighorse is regularly equipped with lattice screens and earlier there were cases when they saved the car. Another thing is that for an armored personnel carrier with its large internal space, an anti-tank system is a little less dangerous than for a tank (where there is a crew, and a b / c, and equipment).
    The BTR-82A did not have time, but now they hastily began to equip it with neither bars nor screens - "women give birth."

    6.
    However, who now uses the troop compartment of armored personnel carriers for its intended purpose?

    But this is an important point. For the love of riding on armor is caused not only by the fear of undermining (undermining when riding ON armor is no less dangerous than when riding in a car, if not more), but also by the fact that nothing is visible inside the box, deaf.

    Something like this should be an armored personnel carrier of the special operation "Z"

    And also, like the BTR-90, BTR "Boomerang", Typhoon-K 6x6, etc., etc.
    In fact, the "workhorses" are the BTR-82A and typhoons. In addition, the tasks of the armored personnel carrier are also performed by Patrols (it’s a pity that the army version of 6x6 did not have time), tigers and ordinary Pokemon. It is possible to dream of an armored personnel carrier with tank and anti-shell armor, but this is pointless because:
    1. The armored personnel carrier performs a huge range of tasks, where combat is just the tip of the iceberg.
    2. As a consequence, the armored personnel carrier should be massive and, accordingly, relatively cheap and relatively light.
    3. The Ministry of Defense does not purchase either new BMPTs (10 units, which are now used to the maximum at the front and with a fat crew of 5 people - that's nothing), or new BMPs on a tank chassis (BMO-T is no more than BMPT). But the topic of heavy infantry fighting vehicles and infantry fighting vehicles is a separate song and BMPT fans now have new arguments and arguments.
    4. The main disadvantage of our armored personnel carriers, as well as armored personnel carriers 404, is that the landing force does not want to travel under the cover of armor. Despite the fact that from fragments of artillery, shelling and mines, armor gives at least some chance to survive. Even a tiger, as recent events have shown, when hit by a mortar mine, gives at least some chances than riding on armor. Accordingly, at least some, but massive armor is better than its absence.
    It is possible and necessary to solve this problem by revising the concept of the machine, providing a large number of troops, giving the troops a greater level of ergonomics (as a result, people will be less tired), some visibility and increasing the level of survivability and security of the machine (I increase protection against small arms and fragments and mines by installing systems fire markings (associated with the smoke/aerosol jamming system).

    IMHO, it generally makes sense to go more to the concept of which the cannon-airborne typhoon is a vivid example. Fortunately, there is Typhoon-K 6x6, and more technologically advanced Patrol and Ural-VPK. To rearm and re-equip them with protective equipment and the task of safely transporting infantry, supporting it with fire, these vehicles will be able to perform. And entrust the first line to tanks, BMPTs and BMPs, but at the expense of more "fat" infantry squads, provide them with more support.

    For all that, we must not forget about the advantages of 82A - and this is a "good" gun 2A82. And in no case should this "plus" be abandoned on new machines (we recall the parade boomerang with a machine gun).
    1. -6
      18 June 2022 17: 01
      Quote: Blackgrifon
      Yes and no. The pig horse is regularly equipped with lattice screens and earlier there were cases when they saved the car

      There were no such cases. Americans from Iraq write that these gratings catch missiles flying by .. Help from modern ammunition from these gratings is zero.
      1. +5
        18 June 2022 19: 48
        Quote: Saxahorse
        There were no such cases. Americans from Iraq write that these gratings catch missiles flying past ..

        Were. Too lazy to search. Then LDNR got one car. The Yankees also praised their bars. And in addition to ATGMs, there are RPGs and Carl Gustavs.
        1. -7
          20 June 2022 00: 10
          Quote: Blackgrifon
          Were. Too lazy to search.

          And you strain your fat and look for it .. We are not joking, but we are talking about people's lives. Lattices are completely useless against modern ammunition and this is well known to specialists. But talkers are too lazy to look at reports ..
          1. +2
            20 June 2022 09: 35
            You will give your husband CU.
            If instead of slurry there is a brain, then you can read these very reports carefully. There is such a thing as letters, they form words. And there is often a table. And conclusions. Now strain the convolutions, connect the letters into words and look at the table.

            If you were told in "Military Acceptance" that the bars do not protect against anything, then this is not a reason to be clever. I might have wondered why both the United States and Russia (not only on the T-72B3, but also on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles), and Western European countries put on "inefficient lattices" for armor.

            And further. Carefully, schoolboy, read what I wrote - "in addition to ATGMs, there are, after all, RPGs and Carl Gustavs." If you have enough brains, what does it mean - report back. If it's not enough, sit quietly on the 5th point and keep quiet.
    2. +3
      18 June 2022 22: 25
      Do not approach the problem of "armored" travel in such a simplistic way. The point is also in the hatches that we open towards the center (to the axis) of the vehicles and do not cover the landing force, the only exception is the BMP-3, where you can hide behind the open shields.
      1. +5
        19 June 2022 00: 57
        Yes. You're right. Moreover, our designers had the opportunity to study the option with a more convenient door / hatch. The same ratel came across among the trophies and, at a minimum, military advisers examined them:


        BMP "Ratel" of the 61st Mechanized Battalion of the South African Army, captured by the Cubans on June 27, 1988. The picture shows the 1st Deputy GVS in Angola, advisers to the Chief of the FAPLA General Staff, Lieutenant General Valery Belyaev and his translator, Captain Sergei Antonov. 1988
        Source - veteranangola.ru
        1. +2
          22 June 2022 18: 37
          Not about that. This refers to the upper hatches, their design is unsuccessful. When riding on armor, hatches cannot be covered, they do not rotate and open from the side, not allowing them to hide behind when riding on armor.
    3. -1
      19 June 2022 11: 53
      Dear commentator, did you yourself ride inside an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier with an ostpel and in a convoy?
      1. +1
        19 June 2022 17: 19
        Thank God no..
        1. +1
          19 June 2022 19: 27
          Here .. Then they would have written differently
          1. +1
            19 June 2022 20: 56
            I will be happy to hear why riding ON armor is better than riding UNDER armor and why going out under the COVER of armor is better than the reverse.
            1. +1
              19 June 2022 21: 18
              Dear, I’ll tell you over a glass of tea, but think for yourself .. Yes, and I don’t like these memories,
              1. 0
                19 June 2022 21: 26
                I have stated my position to you. It is partly based on my inference, partly on the stories of those who visited, partly on the study of available material.
                1. -2
                  19 June 2022 22: 35
                  I understand, but I didn’t read it in books
            2. +3
              21 June 2022 13: 43
              Sorry for interfering, but according to the stories of those who traveled (I didn’t have to myself), on the armor of an armored personnel carrier there is a higher chance of staying alive, no matter how absurd it may sound.
              Inside, for landing, little is visible, narrow hatches for an emergency exit from the cabin .. So it turns out that when shelling with a grenade launcher, ATGM, undermining a mine - almost everyone dies inside. Those who sit outside will suffer from the explosion, but there is a high chance of staying alive.
              (There was a case with my colleague during the second Chechen one. The MONK worked - those who rode on the armor were boldly blasted, slashed with shrapnel, shell-shocked, but EVERYONE survived! Those who were inside the armored personnel carrier, all died ... the armored personnel carrier failed sideways into a ditch, it caught fire).
              It’s the same when shelling with small arms - you won’t get out quickly from the inside. From above there is a chance to have time to jump ..
              Something like this..
              1. +2
                21 June 2022 17: 42
                Yes, my sappers also told me about this - undermining any bombeshka is the dead. With chariots, how lucky (and they are lucky more often). But riding on armor is also not good - the same shelling with artillery, a well-planned ambush. Even your example with MONK - the guys were incredibly lucky. I myself can give an example in addition - it happened for many years the so-called. to watch a trophy video of how our box with a landing on armor on a narrow road on a serpentine was thrown into a cliff by a land mine - a terrible sight.

                But if the landing force (and this is you and me, because we have a VUS and are liable for military service) is afraid of its armor (to ride in a deaf and cramped coffin, waiting for an explosion or not, and not seeing anything - such a pleasure), then we will ride armor, hoping for good luck. Therefore, in the first comment, I wrote that:
                “The main disadvantage of our armored personnel carriers, like the 404 armored personnel carriers, is that the landing force does not want to travel under the cover of armor. Despite the fact that armor gives at least some chance to survive from fragments of artillery, shelling and mines. Even a tiger, as recent events have shown, when hit by a mortar mine, it gives at least some chances than riding on armor.Accordingly, at least some, but massive armor is better than its absence.
                It is possible and necessary to solve this problem by revising the concept of the machine, providing a large number of troops, giving the troops a greater level of ergonomics (as a result, people will be less tired), some visibility and increasing the level of survivability and security of the machine (I increase protection against small arms and fragments and mines by installing systems fire markings (associated with the smoke / aerosol jamming system)".

                And of all our serial infantry armor, only new typhoons (6x6, 4x4) and patrols have more or less comfortable ergonomics and good (especially Typhoon 6x6) protection from mines and riflemen. The BTR-82A has both its advantages and serious disadvantages.

                The story with the tiger in the comment, by the way, is real and fresh.
  26. Owl
    +2
    18 June 2022 15: 02
    The Kamaz-740 turbocharged engine was installed on the BTR-80, on the BTR-82, a different engine is installed, more powerful, according to the sights - I don’t know, I don’t want to compare, but everything burns the same, it all depends on the commanders and crew training ...
  27. +2
    18 June 2022 15: 26
    It is interesting that in 2017 we could have our own Bucephalus - this is an experimental BTR-87, in many respects similar in layout to the BMP-1. But it was decided to abandon the project, obviously in favor of the more promising Boomerang.

    Alas, exactly the same situation developed in the artillery, when, for the sake of the "Coalition-SV", they abandoned the 2S33 "Msta-SM" self-propelled gun, which had already passed the stage of the technical project.
  28. -5
    18 June 2022 16: 29
    Quote: 3danimal
    The front-engine layout has the following fatal flaws:

    How about Strikers, Boomerangs??
    Now no one in the world produces armored personnel carriers of a medium-engined layout.

    Will we also adopt the victim of the transgender cargo cult?
  29. 0
    19 June 2022 17: 08
    Quote: Mister X
    Quote: Konnick
    Completely agree with the picture.

    What about the title of the book?

    Of course, I didn’t deny it, only that in Bucephalus it’s not a “turbo piston diesel”, but just a supercharged diesel engine, and a turbo piston engine is a gas turbine engine with a piston compressor-supercharger, there is a big difference between a diesel engine and a gas turbine.
    1. +1
      21 June 2022 14: 14
      Quote: Konnick
      I didn't deny

      Then why is this question?
      It sounds like they don't exist in nature.
      Right?
      1. +1
        21 June 2022 15: 20
        Then why is this question?
        It sounds like they don't exist in nature.
        Right?


        Because there is no two-stroke TURBODIESEL, there is a GAS ENGINE, where a two-stroke diesel compressor without a crankshaft is used as a supercharger, in contrast to a turbocharged dual-circuit engine, where the supercharger is also a turbine. The main thing in a gas piston engine is TURBINE, and not DIESEL, it is from the turbine shaft that power is removed. The Bucephalus has a turbocharged diesel, power is taken from the crankshaft. Do you understand the difference? Why are you so stubborn?
        1. 0
          21 June 2022 18: 17
          Quote: Konnick
          Why are you so stubborn?

          I am inquisitive
          I can work with material for weeks.
          I won't bother you anymore.
          Good evening
          1. 0
            21 June 2022 20: 24
            I won't bother you anymore.
            Good evening

            Could you apologize for

            Hey, Konnick reader.
            I recommend that you first study the issue, then comment.
            Shame only in vain
            1. -1
              21 June 2022 20: 49
              Quote: Konnick
              Could you apologize for

              Have you apologized to the author?
              Quote: Konnick
              Hey, author, did they come up with a new type of engine?

              He certainly checked with the official data.
              I showed them to you, and not from one source.
              Look for what the "rule of three confirmations" is in journalism.
  30. +1
    19 June 2022 17: 11
    Quote: 3danimal
    You can book a Stryker against 30mm guns in front and 14,5mm on the sides.
    And what will happen to the fighters in the BTR-82a, or in the Typhoon when fired from the KPVT? Will it make a difference whether they are on the armor or inside?

    If it weren’t for the lovers of the cargo cult in the Moscow Region, then the BTR-90 would have long been in service, which can withstand -30mm ammunition hit in the forehead and has a full-fledged two-seater turret. But if you book the striker, then the front suspension will fly out after 500 km, calm down already...
  31. 0
    19 June 2022 17: 37
    wink Real btr says hello
    1. 0
      20 June 2022 19: 55
      what kind of apparatus is this?
      1. +2
        21 June 2022 09: 11
        Patria AMV (XA-360) - Finnish armored personnel carrier
  32. -1
    23 June 2022 18: 29
    The fact that the rear ramp increases the security of the landing force is highly doubtful. And in urban battles, exactly the opposite. It is enough for the machine gunner to be behind and it will be impossible to enter or dismount. With side doors, when one door is blocked by fire, you can use another. This is especially true when driving down the street, one of which is ours, the other is the enemy.
  33. -3
    24 June 2022 19: 19
    I read, read this "material". I would like to wish the author long life and health. Here is "By God". Who will dispute that armored personnel carriers 4 are modern than our armored personnel carriers -80 (aka 82 A, the same 80 weave, only instead of a KPVT gun 20 mm). Hitler's "Tiger" was also, in all respects, more powerful than the T - 34, Sherman. Fact? Fact. But, with all this, the result of the Great Patriotic War is known to everyone.
  34. 0
    26 June 2022 19: 26
    The motor is powerful, but the quality is . Armor too. the turret doesn't have good servos. Heavy. In general, the car is raw. Highly. BTR-82 looks more organic. More balanced. It is not clear why the author should compare these two armored personnel carriers if he declared the BTR-82 to be rubbish in advance?
  35. 0
    26 June 2022 22: 10
    The boomerang stands like a tank. Expensive and not clear how practical. It's one thing to go to parades, but to fight, this, excuse me, is another.
  36. -1
    27 June 2022 00: 29
    Attempt analysis counted))). One thing I can’t understand is why everyone is so rested against these aft doors, and if the fire is fired from the flank or from above, then why should the doors be placed on the bottom? This I mean that the location of the doors on the BTR-80/82 has the right to life. And now about getting stuck in the mud, look at the pictures of Ukrainian armored personnel carriers - almost everything is on rubber from the 131st zil, and on trucks in general the tires are bald.
    1. 0
      27 June 2022 08: 52
      The tradition of placing the driver in front of the car came from those times when there were no television cameras, and today they have visibility and optics they have much better than just the human eye, so the engine with the transmission must be in front, and the driver, commander, with the operator and the landing force in the back of the car, this will greatly simplify the design, logistics, and will strengthen the crew's booking.
  37. 0
    24 July 2022 09: 31
    "Bucephalus" is well "lined" with anti-cumulative screens, to be honest - I like it. I can’t judge the effectiveness of the gratings - we’ll wait until the end of this war, we’ll see there. Perhaps in the future we will be surprised to observe the disappearance of gratings from our armored vehicles.
  38. 0
    28 July 2022 08: 27
    In 2017, we could have our own "Bucephalus" - this is an experimental BTR-87, in many respects similar in layout to the BMP-1. But it was decided to abandon the project, obviously in favor of the more promising Boomerang. The result of such castling is visible to all.

    There was another castling: the BTR-90 adopted for service did not get into the troops.