The technical potential of the MLRS / HIMARS MLRS and the fight against them

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The technical potential of the MLRS / HIMARS MLRS and the fight against them

M270 firing an unguided missile. Photo by the US Department of Defense

Over the past few weeks, the possibility of supplying American multiple launch rocket systems to Ukraine has been discussed. At the very end of May, it became known that the United States nevertheless decided to take such a step, and now other countries are going to do the same. The MLRS offered for delivery have good technical and combat potential, which is why they pose a certain danger.

foreign helpers


The possibility of sending American MLRS to Ukraine has been discussed since February-March, but until recently everything remained at the level of general conversations. It was only on June 1 that it was officially announced that a certain number of M142 HIMARS systems and their “battlefield” ammunition would be included in the next package of military-technical assistance from the United States. Volumes and terms of deliveries have not yet been called.



Almost simultaneously with the United States, Great Britain announced its plans. She is also going to help the Kyiv regime with rocket artillery. Its immediate deliveries will include a certain number of M270 MLRS MLRS and ammunition of unnamed types.

Also on the first day of June, the German press reported that Berlin had similar plans. Germany is going to provide MARS 2 systems, which are a European version of the upgrade of the original M270, as assistance. The necessary equipment will be taken from Krauss-Maffei Wegmann. The volumes of delivery attract attention - as many as four combat vehicles.


Launch of the M30/31 guided missile. Photos Lockheed Martin

The number of MLRS and ammunition planned for transfer is still unknown. In addition, it is not clear if the US, UK and Germany will remain the sole suppliers of the M270 and M142. Such equipment is in service with a number of other countries that have already provided their assistance to Ukraine. These states can also share their MLRS.

Together with self-propelled launchers, a number of types of ammunition intended for use in the volley fire mode will be transferred. At the same time, the United States limits the range of ammunition supplied and is not going to transfer products with the greatest range, incl. tactical missiles. In addition, Washington will demand not to use missiles on targets in Russia in order to avoid escalation.

Universal platforms


Consider the main technical features and combat qualities of two American MLRS, which determine the characteristics and combat value of such equipment. We will also try to find ways and means of its prompt neutralization or complete destruction.

MLRS M270 is made in the form of a tracked vehicle with a pronounced cabin and a launcher for unguided missiles. The chassis of this type is built on the BMP M2 Bradley units and has high mobility and cross-country characteristics. The maximum speed on the highway reaches 64 km / h, the cruising range is 480 km.


Launcher M270 without containers. Photo Missilery.info

The hull, cockpit and launcher have anti-bullet / anti-fragmentation armor. The launcher with remotely controlled drives accommodates two standard transport and launch containers, each of which carries from 1 to 6 missiles of one type or another. TPK is loaded onto the installation using its own lifting device.

The MLRS fire control systems have been repeatedly upgraded. The latest versions of the SLA are equipped with satellite navigation devices and digital computers. There are also devices for programming corrected missiles. The MARS 2 modification received the original EFCS FCS, made on European components. It is curious that the development of EFCS took into account the existing convention on cluster munitions, and it does not allow the use of missiles with such a load.

The M142 system is built on a wheeled chassis, which offers mobility advantages. It develops a speed of up to 85 km/h and can make long marches on roads without the use of a tanker. At the same time, booking the cabin and launcher is again provided.

HIMARS uses the original reduced launcher for one TPK. Especially for this MLRS in the 270s, a new SLA was developed that ensures the use of all existing ammunition and is suitable for integrating new ones. Subsequently, such a system was used to upgrade MXNUMX products.


The design of the M26A1 / A2 shells. Missilery.info graphics

Ammunition Nomenclature


A wide range of unguided and guided missiles of 227 mm caliber has been developed for the MLRS and HIMARS. At different times, products with different ranges, combat load and capabilities were offered and adopted. In addition, an ATACMS or PrSM tactical missile can be placed in a unified TPK, but such products can not be considered in the context of deliveries to Ukraine.

The first ammunition for the M270 was the M26 rocket. She had a range of 32 km and carried a cluster warhead. The latter contained 677 M77 HEAT-fragmentation submunitions. On the basis of the M26, upgraded M26A1 / A2 were made with other combat elements. They also developed training missiles of the M28 and M28A1 series. The first was distinguished by the use of an inert warhead, and the second also received a lightweight engine charge. The range dropped to 9 km, and the requirements for firing ranges were also reduced. In Germany, based on the M26, they created the AT2 remote mining missile, it carries 28 anti-tank mines of the same name.

A later development is the GMLRS (Guided MLRS) sub-series ammunition. It includes an M30 projectile with a range of 60 km, equipped with a trajectory correction system. The base variant of the M30 carries a cassette with 404 M85 submunitions. Modifications of the M30A1 / A2 were also developed, which received monoblock high-explosive fragmentation warheads.

A further development of the M30 is the M31 rocket. Such a product received a 90-kg monoblock high-explosive fragmentation warhead and retains controls. The flight range was increased to 70 km. Various upgrade options for the M31 were proposed, incl. with the introduction of new combat units.


MLRS M142. The guide pipes for the missiles are clearly visible. Photo by the US Department of Defense

To date, work has been completed on the next ammunition, designated as GMLRS-ER (Extended Range). It is another modification of the M30/31 rocket and features a new engine with an increased charge of solid propellant. Due to this, the firing range was increased to 150 km. The accuracy remained the same.

Elimination of the threat


American MLRS and their missiles pose a significant threat to our troops and civilian facilities in the liberated territories. The elimination of such a threat is fundamentally possible, and our army has all the necessary means and methods. Moreover, they have already been demonstrated in practice, albeit in different contexts.

Foreign combat vehicles and ammunition can be destroyed before entering the combat zone. Our army has repeatedly shown its ability to detect and destroy military cargo at the stage of transportation. The existing reconnaissance and strike systems are quite capable of coping with new cargoes in the form of MLRS / HIMARS.

The target for new strikes will also be discovered parking lots of equipment and storage of ammunition in the near rear. Some samples can be intercepted already when entering the firing position or when leaving it. It is quite possible that the vehicles received will be destroyed even before the first attempt at combat use.


Shooting HIMARS. Photo by the US Department of Defense

M270 and M142 are highly mobile, which complicates the work of reconnaissance. At the same time, it should be taken into account that the previously destroyed Ukrainian MLRS could also quickly move along the roads and change positions. Such opportunities did not help them and did not save them from detection and subsequent destruction.

The process of destroying American MLRS can be hampered by the availability of reservations. However, a massive artillery strike with a high probability of a direct hit or guided weapons solve this problem. In addition, anti-fragmentation armor does not exclude the possibility of damage to certain units with a loss of progress or combat capability.

However, the enemy will do everything possible so that the combat vehicles can enter the firing positions and fire. By launching missiles, artillery reconnaissance will be able to detect the position of the MLRS and issue target designation to fire weapons. With sufficient speed of these systems, the first launch will be the last.

In addition, military air defense will join the work, which will have to shoot down launched shells. In terms of technical and ballistic characteristics, missiles for MLRS / HIMARS are similar to the shells of the Uragan and Smerch systems. In recent months, Russian anti-aircraft gunners have repeatedly demonstrated their ability to detect and shoot down such targets. Accordingly, the M26, M30 and M31 products can also be shot down, and the likelihood of a breakthrough to the target is reduced to a minimum.


European modification of the M270 - MARS 2. Photo by the German Ministry of Defense

Predictable future


Thus, the prospects for the current situation around the American-made MLRS in Ukraine are generally clear. Foreign countries will give the Kyiv regime a certain number of combat vehicles of various types and a supply of missiles for them. Ukraine will try to use them, but will not achieve anything - and soon the received products will simply run out, and a new supply will be needed.

The types of weapons planned for transfer pose a certain danger to the Russian and Republican troops, as well as to the population in the controlled territories. However, it can be eliminated in various ways with the help of available and utilized funds. In fact, the American MLRS will only affect the workload and intensity of the work of our crews and specialists.

It should be noted that the Russian army will receive some benefits from American supplies. Thus, our military will have the opportunity to meet with real MLRS from the United States and work out in practice the issues of countering them. In addition, missiles and even combat vehicles can become our trophies - and this will also be of great benefit.
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  1. +7
    3 June 2022 05: 05
    I hope intelligence works ahead of the curve.
    1. 0
      6 June 2022 19: 30
      Scipio (Igor), June 3, 2022 05:05, NEW - "... I hope intelligence works ahead of schedule..."

      And the "partner" Western media will report that the undereducated, oh, Krainsky calculation, with the participation of a drunken (at the wrong time) unknown (American) instructor, accurately hit the targets in Kyyava (the buildings of the embassies of the USA, England and other "fraternal" O,kraine countries). Peremoga with a fight, not a single MISS!!! Tremble, enemy forces.... bully
    2. -2
      7 June 2022 01: 31
      is this how it works?
  2. Eug
    +6
    3 June 2022 05: 14
    Damn hard target. I don’t see any other methods of struggle, except for sabotage at storage sites and during the transportation of ammunition (possibly with the involvement of the Air Force from the “air watch” position).
    1. +10
      3 June 2022 05: 42
      If there is a pure MLRS, then all right, but if in the version of the OTRK ATACMS it will be sour - this is not Tochka-U, there is up to 270 km range with HE warheads of 200 kg, especially since the M270 is capable of launching 2 missiles .. .
      1. 0
        3 June 2022 07: 54
        The transfer of tactical missiles is a completely different level. And the consequences. And I'm not talking about punches or anything. I'm talking about the consequences. Just imagine that after any opponent of Europe and the states we will sell Iskanders. To open this little chest, even a little Baidenovna will be afraid. The same DPRK may suddenly have a weapon like its development of a similar plan with performance characteristics very similar to ours, etc.
        1. +19
          3 June 2022 09: 23
          Quote: carstorm 11
          The same DPRK may suddenly have a weapon like its development of a similar plan with performance characteristics very similar to ours, etc.

          North Korea has long had much more serious systems. They are generally turned on missiles and MLRS, if you are not in the know.
          Quote: carstorm 11
          Just imagine that after any opponent of Europe and the states we will sell Iskanders

          No problem. In general, rockets of this class, self-made or sawn from Elbrus / Scud, are not available only to the lazy. The extremely lazy Ukraine, by the way, had about a hundred - Yushchenko sawed them all. An earthly bow to Viktor Andreevich from Moscow and Muscovites.

          I have been saying for a long time - God forbid everyone such an enemy as Ukraine. It's scary to think what kind of star a minimally sane army, some Houthis, would break. The Houthis, by the way, have Scuds.

          Under the treaties on the limitation of missile weapons, there is only one threshold: less than 300 km and more than 300 km. Less than 300 can be sold freely - Ukraine, but unlike, not under sanctions. Unless, of course, the American side has a decision on escalation. Above 300 you can use yourself, but you can not sell. So PrSM missiles of the "Moscow" range can only appear there with the USArmy, with official military participation.

          PS. On the other hand, for air-to-surface missiles, the restrictions are much softer. So it is politically easier to give Ukraine air missiles if the issue with the carrier is resolved. When the Americans really need it, they resolve such issues incredibly quickly.
          1. -1
            3 June 2022 09: 32
            I clearly indicated about the performance characteristics) I focused on this
          2. +5
            3 June 2022 10: 08
            1. It all depends on the ammunition, of course.
            2. Kyiv is 100% dependent on the West, which means it will follow the instructions. They will say to hit Voronezh, they will hit, they will say fu - they will not hit.
            1. +6
              3 June 2022 12: 02
              This Voronezh was given to you. Shaikovka, Kursk-Vostochny, Baltimore, Millerovo, Novofedorovka. Well, if there is a solution to scare - Kurchatov.
              1. +2
                3 June 2022 12: 34
                Quote: Negro
                Well, if there is a solution to scare - Kurchatov.

                And Novovoronezh - since we are talking about Baltimore.
                1. 0
                  3 June 2022 13: 10
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  and Novovoronezh

                  Kurchatov and Desnogorsk. But if you do not play the fool, then you can dispose of such opportunities much more efficiently.
          3. -1
            3 June 2022 10: 39
            Quote: Negro
            So PrSM missiles of the "Moscow" range

            They are still being tested in the States themselves and are unlikely to be put into service.
            1. -1
              3 June 2022 10: 56
              Quote: Krasnodar
              They are still being tested in the States themselves and are unlikely to be put into service.

              Yes it is. Therefore, 500 km missiles can be excluded from consideration for the time being.
            2. +3
              3 June 2022 14: 58
              Quote: Krasnodar
              unlikely to be put into service.

              Funds allocated for the purchase of 23 products for the 140rd financial year
              1. 0
                3 June 2022 15: 03
                That is, the States themselves will appear in a year.
            3. Eug
              +1
              7 June 2022 12: 01
              The transfer of trained instructors to Ukraine on a "business trip" may just be one of the testing stages.
              1. 0
                7 June 2022 13: 28
                Theoretically, yes, but it is very unsafe for the testers and the product.
          4. +1
            3 June 2022 18: 05
            In general, rockets of this class, self-made or sawn from Elbrus / Scud, are not available only to the lazy.

            1. They are actually liquid, they require other personnel (in terms of quantity), a mobile gas station, a maintenance hangar, and almost an hour (I exaggerate) to enter a flight mission.
            2 is practically gone from the lazy. Age☝️
            Under the treaties on the limitation of missile weapons, there is only one threshold: less than 300 km and more than 300 km.

            There is no such agreement.
            There is a missile technology control regime (MTCR)
            Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR)
            И
            International Code of Conduct (ICP) for the Prevention of Ballistic Missile Proliferation.
            Today, the Technical Annex consists of two parts - a list of goods subject to Category I restrictions and a list of goods subject to Category II restrictions.

            Category I (consists of 2 sections) actually prohibits the transfer of missiles to other states in general with a maximum range of 300 km ☝️ or more with a payload weight of 500 kg or more ☝️ (it is possible to convert payload weight to range and vice versa). It is also prohibited to transfer completed systems (engines, control systems, software, technologies) used for completed delivery vehicles.

            Category II is a fairly structured restrictive list, where all products are divided into 18 sections with numerous, extremely important notes, incl. making exceptions to the general rule. Each section of this Category refers to one or another element of rockets, to one or another process of their creation. Each position (element) of the section should contain an answer to the question about:

            equipment, assembly unit and composition of the element;
            test and production equipment;
            materials;
            software;
            technology

            American data on the characteristics of missiles already available or being developed in countries that make up, as they call in the USA, the "axis of evil" (for 2006, it seems data)

            So for common development
            Washington admitted Ukraine to the MTCR only in 1998, and then only after Kyiv refused a major deal for the supply of turbines from Kharkov for the construction of a nuclear power plant in Iran, in Bushehr.
            1. -3
              3 June 2022 19: 14
              That is, if you remove the details, then a rocket with a 500-pound warhead does not fall under the restrictions, and Zelensky can call LM even now? OK, let's take your position.
              1. +3
                3 June 2022 20: 29
                Category I - Everything is written there.
                500 kg and not "500 feet".
                I don't know what "LM" is.
                This is not my position but a quote from
                Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR)
                Read, study for yourself:
                https://mtcr.info/
                1. 0
                  3 June 2022 23: 33
                  Quote from TreeSmall
                  Read, study for yourself:

                  Studying the normative is usually a good idea, but it's not that interesting to me. So I will accept your retelling as the truth.
                  Quote from TreeSmall
                  500 kg and not "500 feet".
                  I don't know what "LM" is.

                  500 pounds (200+kg) weighs warhead MGM-140. LM, Lockheed Martin, recently issued a 500 km version for testing, the first serial products were planned next year. From your words, it turns out that since the warhead is relatively light, it can be delivered anywhere without fawn.
                  1. +2
                    4 June 2022 15: 36
                    I repeat: the words are not mine, but from MTCR.
                    "LM" can insert any BG without a fawn: at least 500, at least 59 or 100500 pounds.
                    They and when a MTCR thriller.
                    And since they left the INF Treaty, in general, a drum.
                    Sell ​​to Ukraine, for example. Yes, that's another question. But at the present time: only the threat to oneself will be concerned about.
                    No one in their right mind could have imagined a year ago that MANPADS would be handed out to everyone who wanted them, like shovels. More than 4500 roam the region of Ukraine.
                    It's propane rockets for 300+ miles and 500lb bg.
                    Now anyone in bloomers can get close to any civilian airport with MANPADS
                    1. 0
                      4 June 2022 16: 08
                      Yes?

                      It's very nice that you are concerned about the problem of MANPADS. The supply of stingers to Afghanistan did not cause any special problems, and then suddenly there was trouble for civil aviation. It seems that you are neutral about bathrobes, but for some reason you can’t stand bloomers.

                      As for the discussion of Lockheed, once again: I stated that the Americans can only export ballistic missiles up to 300 km. From your words, it turns out that you can sell longer-range missiles if their warhead is lighter than 1000 pounds. Maybe so, I will not go deep. Although it would be strange - I am not aware of the export of 300+ km missiles even with lighter warheads, on the contrary, all countries carefully cut the range to this value - both for ballistic missiles and cruise missiles.
          5. +2
            4 June 2022 10: 24
            And where did you get the idea that in the current time the contract of 300 km will be observed during the sale? What kind of heavenly punishment for its non-observance will fall on us? In the light of the supply of everything to Russia’s opponents, our hands are completely free, and if earlier we could threaten with a nuclear club, and only now in the era of hypersound there is a lot of interesting things .. The same transfer of modern anti-ship missiles to Iran and the DPRK, Venezuela will greatly complicate the life of the American fleet throughout to the world, Iskanders to whom over with a range of 1.5-2.5 thousand km and everything will sparkle with new colors .. You can play these games together, which the West has pretty much forgotten about ..
            1. 0
              4 June 2022 11: 00
              Quote: max702
              And where did you get the idea that in the current time the contract of 300 km will be observed during the sale?

              Who, the Americans? Since they have not yet changed their laws on this topic. Believe it or not, most countries follow their own laws. If they are no longer relevant, you need to change them, and not be lazy.

              Quote: max702
              What kind of heavenly punishment for its non-observance will fall on us?

              On you? If you are writing on behalf of the Russian Federation, then this position is beneficial to the Russian Federation in the first place - after all, Russia, to put it mildly, has problems with half of its neighbors. With the abolition of this regime, Korean Iskanders can (theoretically) appear in the Sumy region ON MONDAY, and new Pershings - converted, for example, from SM-3 - by the end of the year at most, or maybe much earlier. The problem of short-range missiles should worry the United States much less - at the present time, you won’t even divorce Cuba for such nonsense, not to mention Canada and Mexico.
              Quote: max702
              The same transfer of modern anti-ship missiles to Iran and North Korea, Venezuela will greatly complicate the life of the American fleet around the world

              In the modern world, only those countries that specifically refuse to have them do not have anti-ship missiles - in particular, Ukraine. Iran and North Korea have them, Venezuela will, if such a desire suddenly arises. However, Venezuelan drug addicts have not yet lost their sanity - the less attention they draw to themselves, the easier it is for them to live.
              Quote: max702
              Iskanders to whom over with a range of 1.5-2.5 thousand km and everything will sparkle with new colors ..

              Iskander with a range of 2.5 thousand km is an ordinary cruise missile, which, again, anyone has. Except for Ukraine, which for 30 years purposefully ruined its army and military-industrial complex.
              1. -2
                4 June 2022 12: 42
                Do you seriously want to scare us with Sumy Iskanders? Tired of living? Here the question is different, how can someone dictate at least something to a nuclear power capable of destroying civilization on planet earth? We have nothing to lose, they besieged us and are slowly putting pressure on us trying to kill and not suffer much at the same time, but Western society has something to lose and a lot .. Even if we not only supply our missiles to anyone, but burn Ukraine and half of Europe in a nuclear the fire will have no consequences for us! There will be an understanding that the jokes are over and enough for everyone! And the West is absolutely not going to die for some kind of Europe, or even more so Ukraine! In our country, a large population does not live densely like in Europe or the United States, so conventional weapons do not particularly threaten us, unlike, but the US fleet and comrades of anti-ship missiles are modern very much like the Kyrgyz Republic (which we and the West can do) can cause irreparable damage and you know this, it is precisely for us today that we don’t care deeply about the spread of rocket technologies, because we were sentenced a long time ago, about which the commander-in-chief told us why a world in which there is no Russia? And don’t talk nonsense about the presence of CR for everyone, because those who wish, that is, but there are no such technologies ...
                1. 0
                  4 June 2022 15: 45
                  Quote: max702
                  Do you seriously want to scare us with Sumy Iskanders? Tired of living?

                  Who is tired? Do you also hate Muscovites?
                  Quote: max702
                  Here the question is different, how can someone dictate at least something to a nuclear power capable of destroying civilization on planet earth?

                  Not capable. And giving lyuley to a nuclear power has never been a problem - it was the USSR that was the first to run into a preemptive strike already in the 48th year. And then there were dozens of conflicts involving all members of the nuclear club. Who just got into such fornications.
                  Quote: max702
                  We have nothing to lose, they surrounded us and slowly crush us trying to kill and at the same time not suffer much

                  It's strange, I don't remember such statements under the drunk Yeltsin. It is clearly seen that medicine has been destroyed just in the last decade. Psychiatry first.
                  Quote: max702
                  we will burn Ukraine and half of Europe in a nuclear fire, there will be no consequences for us!

                  Yes? Still, it's bad that instead of psychiatry, all the money went to TV.
                  Quote: max702
                  In our country, a large population does not live densely like in Europe or the USA, so conventional weapons do not particularly threaten us, unlike,

                  Yes? I have always been struck by the complete lack of interest in Russia in patriots like you. Russia is an archipelago. Despite the very large territory on paper, the population lives crowded on a few "islands". Or, more accurately, desert oases.
                  This we do not even touch on the topic "Surviving without centralized heating in January in California / Krasnoyarsk."
                  Quote: max702
                  here is the US fleet about the comrades of the anti-ship missiles, very modern, just like the missile defense systems (which we and the West can do) can cause irreparable damage and you know it

                  You will be surprised, but the US Navy has been preparing to repel an anti-ship missile attack for 50 years. And it is much more convenient for any Khattabychs to hit some container ship / tanker. And most of all from such events on trade routes will suffer, surprise, China.
                  Quote: max702
                  don’t talk nonsense about the presence of CR for everyone, because those who wish, that is, but there are no such technologies ...

                  Just like the dirt of such technologies. Even my beloved Yemeni Houthis thought of firing at a couple of ships.
                  1. -2
                    4 June 2022 22: 05
                    Delirium further ipsoshnik if the Hussites shoot with their anti-ship missiles, yeah ..
                2. -2
                  13 June 2022 01: 11
                  Now, if it comes to a direct nuclear confrontation with the West, then in my opinion the game is not in our favor, the exchange of our ten to twenty (most likely there will be no more) largest cities starting with Moscow and the exchange of 20 and even 30-40 large cities of the West will lead to that the West will stand, and Russia will disappear from history.
          6. -1
            5 June 2022 20: 48
            North Korea has long had much more serious systems

            The DPRK has no more "serious" or equal simtem to Eskander. Did you have the prudence to leave the nuclear arsenal for a bunch?
            I have been saying for a long time - God forbid everyone such an enemy as Ukraine.

            ...
            At the beginning of the NMD, Ukraine had the most combat-ready army in Europe. They have more troops in almost all types of equipment than Europeans in a compartment. Huge reserve potential. Rich experience of conducting this particular type of war. Faith in their government, bitterness and cruelty. Here the Russian Federation is also like this, "Why are they there, we'll take them out from the floor of a drink" And now your "enemy of the dream" has been standing for 3 months, when any army in Europe would have already ended.
            some Houthis

            ...
            The Houthis are not stronger than the same ISIS. Well, yes, a couple of working Scuds. And ISIS had a huge base of human resources from all over the world.

            P.S. And this is the top comment on the "pluses" ...
        2. +3
          3 June 2022 13: 02
          Quote: carstorm 11
          Just imagine that after any opponent of Europe and the states we will sell Iskanders.

          Well, what kind of enemy is this, which is able to strike at Europe or the states, provoking a full-fledged war with them. Well set, so what
          ? Who suddenly dares to apply out of dislike?
      2. +3
        3 June 2022 09: 01
        Quote: PSih2097
        If there is a pure MLRS, then all right, but if in the version of the OTRK ATACMS it will be sour - this is not Tochka-U, there is up to 270 km range with HE warheads of 200 kg, especially since the M270 is capable of launching 2 missiles .. .

        They have already stated that they will supply missiles with a range of up to 70 km + Ukraine guarantees that they will not be used against Russian territory (Crimea is questionable, but I think not either). In general, the thing is very serious, but the author is again ready to throw hats, albeit by strangers, he himself is not at the forefront and not even in the frontline zone, it is easy for him to shoot down missiles, destroy and capture equipment with proxy ...
        1. +2
          3 June 2022 09: 21
          Exactly. Whoever is on the front lines is definitely not happy about this news.
          Many shaposhniks say all the time: residents of Baghdad, sleep in peace, this is just a rszo.
          About the fact that this MLRS is only formal (RSZO hits targets with an avalanche of shells), but in fact a full-fledged high-precision tactical missile system is usually silent.
          Look at the contracts, Poles, Romanians, Finns and everyone else buy only high-precision missiles for this system. All the tales about what they will equip with unguided projectiles are complete garbage. They have enough hurricanes and tornadoes.
          They will give shells with a range of 70 km.
          With careful use, at a distance of 30 km from the front line, they will be able to shoot up to 40 km behind the front line.
          1. +2
            3 June 2022 10: 00
            Quote: Beetle1991
            Exactly. Whoever is on the front lines is definitely not happy about this news.
            Many shaposhniks say all the time: residents of Baghdad, sleep in peace, this is just a rszo.
            About the fact that this MLRS is only formal (RSZO hits targets with an avalanche of shells), but in fact a full-fledged high-precision tactical missile system is usually silent.
            Look at the contracts, Poles, Romanians, Finns and everyone else buy only high-precision missiles for this system. All the tales about what they will equip with unguided projectiles are complete garbage. They have enough hurricanes and tornadoes.
            They will give shells with a range of 70 km.
            With careful use, at a distance of 30 km from the front line, they will be able to shoot up to 40 km behind the front line.

            As one military blogger on YouTube said, it doesn’t matter if your AK is in a body kit or in a factory tree, one fig will most likely kill you with Grad, only cannon artillery from the frontline zone can reach the hail of the enemy, but this American thing is no longer ... considering that the Americans can later deliver missiles with a range of up to 299 km (300 are already not allowed by American laws), and our planes most likely will not reach their bases even with a 70 km range of missiles ... one thing pleases - so far only 4 cars, but I think the fleet will only expand...
            1. +6
              3 June 2022 11: 23
              one thing pleases - so far only 4 cars, but I think the fleet will only expand ...


              Minimum 8:
              4 Himars
              4 MLRS MARS from Scholz - he announced this "Germany will also send 4 MLRS MARS Systems to Ukraine." Scholz still hopes to get out of this without impeachment and spend his old age like Schroeder on Gazprom's pension.
              The UK MoD also said they would supply their upgraded M270B1s with missiles for 43 miles, but did not give a number.
              Britain is also send to Ukraine the M270B1 multiple launch rocket system, which uses a 200lb high explosive warhead to hit targets as far away as 43 miles.

              Other European countries also have the M270 and the go-ahead is given, so a chain reaction is possible:
              Among the potential suppliers of Italy - Draghi is actively collecting the supply of heavy weapons and PR on this, for him it is a matter of keeping in power. They have 22 such systems. Conditional 4 is quite realistic to convey.

              Norway, they give away all their M109A3G. They have 12xM270 in storage. I will bet that they will give it, perhaps they will bargain with the United States for replacement supplies and give it back.

              France - they have 12 pieces and wanted to sell them to Finland, but did not agree, as a result, Finland bought from the Netherlands and Denmark. That is, they may well be transferred now, since there is no place for them in the modern French Armed Forces, they are actually in storage, and for the same Mali they were pulled out of warehouses and trained in l / s, as much as 1 battery.

              1. +1
                3 June 2022 12: 07
                Quote: donavi49
                one thing pleases - so far only 4 cars, but I think the fleet will only expand ...


                Minimum 8:
                4 Himars
                4 MLRS MARS from Scholz - he announced this "Germany will also send 4 MLRS MARS Systems to Ukraine." Scholz still hopes to get out of this without impeachment and spend his old age like Schroeder on Gazprom's pension.
                The UK MoD also said they would supply their upgraded M270B1s with missiles for 43 miles, but did not give a number.
                Britain is also send to Ukraine the M270B1 multiple launch rocket system, which uses a 200lb high explosive warhead to hit targets as far away as 43 miles.

                Other European countries also have the M270 and the go-ahead is given, so a chain reaction is possible:
                Among the potential suppliers of Italy - Draghi is actively collecting the supply of heavy weapons and PR on this, for him it is a matter of keeping in power. They have 22 such systems. Conditional 4 is quite realistic to convey.

                Norway, they give away all their M109A3G. They have 12xM270 in storage. I will bet that they will give it, perhaps they will bargain with the United States for replacement supplies and give it back.

                France - they have 12 pieces and wanted to sell them to Finland, but did not agree, as a result, Finland bought from the Netherlands and Denmark. That is, they may well be transferred now, since there is no place for them in the modern French Armed Forces, they are actually in storage, and for the same Mali they were pulled out of warehouses and trained in l / s, as much as 1 battery.

                We’re talking specifically about highmars, because so far there are only 4, but there is an “enlarged” version of the M-270, but there (except for the M270A2, which are only in the states), only missiles are common (and not all of them, European M270s are not able to in gum BCs). And this means a slightly different training course for crews is needed. On the other hand, the M270s have some common nodes with the Bradleys and, in theory, the training of technical personnel will allow in the future to further train specialists for servicing the M2 and M3 (although why, the BMP-1/2 and their options are still enough in NATO, now Greece plans to put them out) ...
                Regarding supplies from Germany - the German leadership does not really want to participate in all this - they have already promised cheetahs and martens and leopards, but they have not given anything ...
                1. -2
                  3 June 2022 16: 32
                  How are we going to fight with NATO, if we are afraid of 4 or 8 or 16 or ... Himars?
                  1. +2
                    3 June 2022 18: 44
                    Quote: Artyom Palyonny
                    How are we going to fight with NATO, if we are afraid of 4 or 8 or 16 or ... Himars?

                    And who, besides Solovyov on TV, was going to fight with NATO? ... I have always said and will say - without a nuclear club, Russia has no chance to survive in the war with NATO. A nuclear club will not allow you to defeat or destroy everyone, but it allows you to inflict monstrous unacceptable damage, therefore there will be no direct conflict with NATO
                    1. -1
                      3 June 2022 20: 50
                      Quote: parma
                      without a nuclear club, Russia has no chance

                      Yah? Truth? And who and how long will hold out against the Russian Federation in the European TVD? And if theoretically they advance, how far will they advance? Think well.
                      1. +5
                        4 June 2022 07: 56
                        Quote: konstantin68
                        Quote: parma
                        without a nuclear club, Russia has no chance

                        Yah? Truth? And who and how long will hold out against the Russian Federation in the European TVD? And if theoretically they advance, how far will they advance? Think well.

                        Hmm... let's say Ukraine... has been holding on for 3 months already, and there are still no hints of its complete defeat... and Ukraine doesn't even really have aviation and navy (and it wasn't against our background).
                      2. 0
                        4 June 2022 08: 33
                        Quote: parma
                        Hmm... let's say Ukraine... has been holding on for 3 months

                        3 months and 20% of the territory. Hm.
                        And who is stronger than Ukraine (which everyone pumps with weapons) in the European TVD?
                      3. mva
                        0
                        7 June 2022 14: 50
                        Would you like to see Turkey, Britain or France? Ukraine was no match for them in terms of military power, until February 24, now it has already been pumped up a little, but it is still far from the leading countries. In general, Turkey has the largest army in Europe.
                    2. 0
                      4 June 2022 10: 28
                      Well, in general, the commander-in-chief announced the borders of NATO for 1997 .. And by what methods, time will tell ..
            2. +1
              3 June 2022 20: 55
              Quote: parma
              and this American thing is no longer there ... given that the Americans can later supply missiles with a range of up to 299 km

              Prodigy? Yah? Truth?
              Why don’t Ukrainians give up, because the Russian Federation has 9K720?
          2. +7
            3 June 2022 10: 27
            Quote: Beetle1991
            About the fact that this MLRS is only formal (RSZO hits targets with an avalanche of shells), but in fact a full-fledged high-precision tactical missile system is usually silent.

            Speaking specifically, we are talking about the following.

            The most ancient M26 of the times of the GSVG. 227 mm / 32 km, cluster rounds. Approximately analogous to the Hurricane. This in itself is not so funny. Moreover, if the partners find this ammunition in a distant storage room, then they can give at least everything to the Ukrainians - they themselves have not used them for a long time.
            M26 upgraded. 45 kilometers. Hello to any artillery and any MLRS. The appearance of this right now near Kharkov will create a threat of shelling of Kupyansk - and this is the main communication center of the Izyum group. Not to mention the famous Chernobaevka or Zmein.

            M30/31 - tactical missile, range 70 km, ZhPS. Russia has no analogues. It is this ammunition that is now massive and relatively inexpensive. A lot of interesting applications, and one of them is working against large air defense systems. Try to intercept a packet even from 6 missiles. Hello reasoning about the "useless reaper".
            GLSDB and GMLRS-ER. 150 km. Test samples are not in service. The appearance is still possible only theoretically, there were no statements about deliveries.
            MGM-140 ATACMS. This is a separate conversation. In particular, the fact that hypothetical promises "not to shoot at the territory of Russia" may well mean "Russia within internationally recognized borders" - and this greatly changes the matter.
            1. +1
              3 June 2022 11: 58
              Quote: Negro
              M30/31 - tactical missile, range 70 km, ZhPS. Russia has no analogues.

              Tornado-S has corrective missiles.
              1. +3
                3 June 2022 12: 14
                Mythical 9M542? Nobody saw him, unlike the massive M30. And it seems to be not controlled, but corrected - it just takes into account the rocking of the car at startup.
                1. +1
                  3 June 2022 12: 19
                  Quote: Negro
                  And it seems to be not controllable, but adjustable - it just takes into account the rocking of the car at startup.

                  Naturally correctable, how can you shoot at 120 kilometers without correction? Yes, and there is no fundamental difficulty, there is Krasnopoli, etc. There is nothing difficult in creating an adjustable GLONASS MLRS projectile.
                  1. +7
                    3 June 2022 13: 14
                    Quote: Lt. air force reserve
                    There is nothing difficult in creating an adjustable GLONASS MLRS projectile.

                    Have you confused the theses "there is nothing difficult to create" and "available in the troops"? Here I am reading from Murzik about the crisis of toilet paper in the 35th army. There is nothing complicated, you say?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. +10
                      3 June 2022 14: 35
                      hi
                      Hmm, well, the fact that half the forum is banned, I understand that - hard times. Type "they" is not enough "Hurrah".

                      But the fact that the posts with the texts of Murza are rubbing - I can’t understand this. I'm off to another self-exile.
                      request
                      1. +3
                        13 June 2022 02: 11
                        But this is you in vain! If it goes like this, only "luculas" will remain in VO. wassat
                      2. +3
                        13 June 2022 23: 50
                        hi
                        Hello!
                        I'll get out of self-exile for a while feel .
                        only "luculas" will remain in VO
                        that's probably where it's headed... Several interesting authors and commentators are no longer posting here.

                        If before the well-known events it was safe and interesting to read the sections "History" and "Armament", now, for example, even Mitrofanov AKA "turbine in the butt", "landing between Zhytomyr and Rovno" made his way into the Armament. Have you seen his article "Questions of AWACS ..."?
                        And 90% of the comments on VO are "generally hard", IMHO.

                        Thank you for your interesting articles! Little to read here! hi
                      3. +3
                        14 June 2022 10: 58
                        Sorry, very sorry!
                        Still, I dare to hope that your self-exile will not last too long.
                    3. -2
                      3 June 2022 18: 32
                      Quote: Negro
                      Have you confused the theses "there is nothing difficult to create" and "available in the troops"? Here I am reading from Murzik about the crisis of toilet paper in the 35th army. There is nothing complicated, you say?

                      No one will say what is and what is not, this is secret information. But according to all forecasts, Russia should have run out of the same calibers, but this is not so.
        2. -1
          3 June 2022 09: 46
          Quote: parma
          They have already stated that they will supply missiles with a range of up to 70 km + Ukraine guarantees that they will not be used against Russian territory (Crimea is questionable, but I think not either).

          well, they are gentlemen - "they wanted to give their word, they wanted to take it away" ...
          Quote: Beetle1991
          Many shaposhniks say all the time: residents of Baghdad, sleep in peace, this is just a rszo.

          and what is the difference between MLRS missiles and our Tornados / Hurricanes, which are used to hammer at our troops and non-combatants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other evil spirits?
          1. +1
            3 June 2022 10: 05
            Quote: PSih2097
            Quote: parma
            They have already stated that they will supply missiles with a range of up to 70 km + Ukraine guarantees that they will not be used against Russian territory (Crimea is questionable, but I think not either).

            well, they are gentlemen - "they wanted to give their word, they wanted to take it away" ...
            Quote: Beetle1991
            Many shaposhniks say all the time: residents of Baghdad, sleep in peace, this is just a rszo.

            and what is the difference between MLRS missiles and our Tornados / Hurricanes, which are used to hammer at our troops and non-combatants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other evil spirits?

            I think if the agreements are violated, the amount of assistance may decrease or change ...
            As for point-y, the missile is much more modern, more precisely, more diverse in terms of nomenclature, can be guided according to NATO surveillance equipment almost in real time and not with an almost expired shelf life ..
          2. +5
            3 June 2022 14: 12
            and what is the difference between MLRS missiles and our Tornados / Hurricanes, which are used to hammer at our troops and non-combatants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other evil spirits

            MLRS translates as MLRS
            Missiles for HIMARS differ from projectiles for domestic rocket launchers in high accuracy.
            1 volley of a tornado covers 67 hectares, there was such a MEM.
            In fact, the spread of shells from one salvo over an area of ​​67 hectares. (67 hectares is conditional.)
            Only cities to nightmare.
            QUO several hundred meters.
            HIMARS lays down rockets with an error of literally 3-5 meters.
            1. 0
              4 June 2022 10: 31
              As if the main purpose of the MLRS is to work by area) That is why they are made multi-barreled and used for several machines at once. No one ever tries to subdue the point target of the MLRS. For this, there are cannon artillery, OTR, and other guided munitions. MLRS work precisely by area and evaluate them precisely by this indicator. 67 hectares is excellent. 40 Hurricane missiles at a point with a radius of 4 meters is ridiculous))) MLRS in cities are usually not used, they were developed to work on clusters of equipment in open areas. Although you can cover the column on the march. But in the cities it is still used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the Arabs with the Jews. But, it is already on their conscience. When asked how to destroy MLRS data (which is rather not MLRS, but OTR), it is clear that cruise missiles, OTR and aviation. Ideally, IMHO, so X-29 and Caliber 3M14.
            2. 0
              5 June 2022 00: 41
              MLRS are compared precisely by the covered area. In a volley, they hit many targets, and not one "with accuracy." A volley and a company stronghold to hell. 20 seconds for everything.
        3. +3
          3 June 2022 18: 07
          Ukraine guarantees that they will not be used against Russian territory (Crimea is in question, but I also think not).

          They have already stated that they consider Crimea to be Ukrainian territory, and an attack on Crimea will not be a missile attack on the territory of the Russian Federation.
          1. +1
            3 June 2022 20: 25
            Quote from TreeSmall
            Ukraine guarantees that they will not be used against Russian territory (Crimea is in question, but I also think not).

            They have already stated that they consider Crimea to be Ukrainian territory, and an attack on Crimea will not be a missile attack on the territory of the Russian Federation.

            Legally, from the point of view of most of the planet, yes, Crimea is Ukraine. But I don’t think that the United States is interested in these formalities… most likely, the United States will not allow the Ukrainian Armed Forces to strike at Crimea, the latter will not be ready to return captivity by force (they almost never)… if the issue of Crimea is raised, then most likely only at peace negotiations , through diplomatic means and the complete retreat of the RF Armed Forces from the territory of Ukraine ... yes, this is possible, but only in the event of an energy embargo against Russia and the supply of everything and everything to Ukraine. This option is practically unrealistic for two reasons - our current government will rather put all the inhabitants of Russia than allow this (a military defeat not to Ukraine is exactly the death of the authorities) and of course this is a severe crisis for the West itself
      3. +4
        3 June 2022 12: 51
        Amazingly, the American rocket and rockets are significantly shorter than our counterparts and have a smaller volume for fuel, but in terms of performance characteristics they are not inferior to our Tornadoes and Iskander.
        1. +3
          3 June 2022 20: 36
          The fuel is more energetic, so Isp is greater. We never reached their results (Mace and Trident d2)
          Body material: with the same strength, it has less weight
          Electronics, steering machines, cable network
          So little by little it comes out
        2. +2
          4 June 2022 10: 44
          And this is because we are comparing Soviet missiles of the 70s of the last century with Western missiles of the last decade. So nothing strange. 50 years is a long time. About Iskander. It has more payload. In addition, Iskander-M uses a high-altitude (flight altitude - 50 km) super-maneuverable (overloads - 20-30 g) quasi-ballistic missile with stealth technologies, a dropped electronic warfare module and false targets in order to bypass missile defense systems and destroy objects protected by them at a distance up to 500 km. It didn’t just fly from point A to point B. In the west, they don’t bother with missile defense systems on such missiles. They do not have a guaranteed defeat of the target in the first place, but still the main thing is profit and export potential. Well, a type of missile with a range of 500 km sounds more attractive to many than a missile with a range of 350 km. Therefore, what for overweight, all these stray to overcome missile defense. Nafig strength and power-to-weight ratio for maneuvering at 20g, 5g is enough (the body comes out less durable and lighter, the power drives are also weaker and lighter). That's the whole secret of the lower weight of Western missiles. Someone will say, another type of couch expert, and I agree. But I am a couch expert who defended his diploma at the Makeev Design Bureau).
          1. +2
            4 June 2022 11: 10
            Quote: Technical Engineer
            Iskander-M uses a high-altitude (flight altitude - 50 km) super-maneuverable (overloads - 20-30 g) quasi-ballistic missile with stealth technologies, a drop-down electronic warfare module and false targets in order to bypass missile defense systems

            What you can't hear.

            If this were so, then the orders of Bohdan Khmelnitsky should be given to gentlemen engineers. Russian Knipcamps.
      4. Urs
        -2
        3 June 2022 16: 04
        Accept the objection to the statement "this is not your point at".
        Foreign ammunition is not much superior to the Soviet version.
        The mass overall characteristics are similar, the striking capabilities are also the same, the only thing is that the range of the foreign variant is higher. Otherwise, it’s a very real target for air defense.
        Everything rests on the early warning and surveillance systems "Nebo T" copes with this. So our sworn partners will not present anything new to us, but they will throw in reconnaissance and air defense calculations at all levels.
    2. -10
      3 June 2022 05: 52
      Determine areas of application and send DRGs to them to mine movement routes.
      It’s better, of course, to slow them down on the border with Poland ... but all this is written with a pitchfork on the water.
      War is an unpredictable thing ... where and when they emerge is unknown. what
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. 0
      3 June 2022 20: 48
      Quote: Eug
      Damn hard target

      What is more difficult, for example, "Hurricane"? or "Smercha"?
    5. 0
      5 June 2022 00: 25
      Ordinary goal. Similar to Hurricane. If you need to add range, please have Tornado.
  3. +11
    3 June 2022 05: 29
    let him consider me cruel, but an army trained only in exercises at training grounds is weaker than an army that had to test and improve its skills, capabilities and abilities in a military conflict, and even test its skills in front of enemy equipment. I wish the victory of the Russian army and as few casualties among the military as possible, but the opportunity to improve oneself and the opportunity to test one’s abilities in front of specific NATO weapons and real systems and be able to counteract and destroy them is the most valuable experience.
    1. Urs
      +1
      3 June 2022 16: 09
      The war is actually a very dirty aunt, covered in blood and dirt.
      But NATO and the aunt army to put this bitch on a leash.
      And he is a soldier that he is an army worker, someone needs to delve into this dirt.
      There is such a profession - to defend the Motherland. soldier
  4. -2
    3 June 2022 06: 08
    The technical potential of the MLRS / HIMARS MLRS and the fight against them

    We already have experience in using MLRS as a counter-battery weapon. We can also use it to fight HIMARS. But it is better to use aviation for this.
  5. +2
    3 June 2022 06: 35
    These weapons should not get to Ukraine, the premonition is bad.
  6. +17
    3 June 2022 06: 44
    Quote: Negro
    Shtosh. So the article about the useless self-propelled guns 155/52 arrived in time. We are waiting for an article about useless highmars.

    Ryabov Kirill did not disappoint.
    1. +6
      3 June 2022 11: 28
      According to V. A. Shamanov, who:
      Commander of the Airborne Forces (from May 24, 2009 - October 5, 2016).
      Colonel General (2012).
      Hero of the Russian Federation (1999).
      Governor of the Ulyanovsk region (2000-2004).
      Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Committee on the Development of Civil Society, Issues of Public and Religious Associations.
      Yes, and also an Honorary Citizen of the Ryazan Region, -
      then there will be many such articles for another five to ten years.

      IMHO, one of the final articles of this cycle will be the article "Journalist Ryabov Kirill, or How I stopped worrying and fell in love with the atomic bomb."
      1. +5
        3 June 2022 12: 37
        Quote: Wildcat
        IMHO, one of the final articles of this cycle will be the article "Journalist Ryabov Kirill, or How I stopped worrying and fell in love with the atomic bomb."

    2. +1
      3 June 2022 17: 04
      Quote: Negro
      Quote: Negro
      Shtosh. So the article about the useless self-propelled guns 155/52 arrived in time. We are waiting for an article about useless highmars.

      Ryabov Kirill did not disappoint.

      On the other hand, he is true to himself, all the weapons that the yellow-blakyt have at their disposal are a little more dangerous than the spear of an ancient man, they don’t change shoes, but in general ...
    3. +1
      4 June 2022 15: 38
      Ryabov Kirill did not disappoint.

      good
      Whether isho will be. Klava stomp it you don't it
  7. +11
    3 June 2022 07: 33
    E mine, as on the first channel, I got to the "experts". Well, there are already some advantages, from the supply of Western weapons are described. Of course, they don’t care about the dead civilians, children, and warriors. It’s not for them to sit under the blows. We will kill them with aviation. I wonder how, if she doesn’t fly over the front line either. And 777 shells are already arriving in Donetsk and other cities. This is up to 30 km, not up to 300.
    1. -9
      3 June 2022 12: 48
      And 777 shells are already arriving in Donetsk and other cities.

      did you just fall off the moon? Shells flew over Donetsk for 8 years. And for this, the usual D-20, D-20, Msta, etc. were quite enough.
      Well, there are already some advantages, from the supply of Western weapons are described. Of course, they don’t care about the dead civilians, children, and warriors.

      don't give a damn. But we are discussing military equipment not from the point of view of its ability to kill, but from the point of view of the effectiveness of its use for combat missions. From the point of view of the war, the supply of foreign equipment today is not very effective. Because no matter how great the MLRS system is, its small number at the front will not bring any significant results. What is the density of artillery systems per km of the front to explain to you or guess yourself? Can you calculate what is the use of 4 RZSO installations per 1000 km of the front? So no need to vote, everyone understands everything here
      1. 0
        5 June 2022 02: 14
        A huge benefit if she kills at least ONE of our soldiers. Do you know why? Simply because without their supplies, tens, hundreds, no, without the West, thousands of soldiers would be alive. Tankers, pilots, swimmers, divers, sailors, National Guardsmen, ordinary fighters. Yes, they would have been alive without these javelins and other anti-tank systems, grenade launchers, without stingers, and lesser-known air defense systems, without radars, hundreds of tanks from Poland, ammunition for MLRS, artillery, and other military "loot". And all this AFFECTS the situation at the front, because it all slowed down the offensive, turns cities into dust, not western, not central, but the cities of Donbass. This affects morally, because the death of comrades exerts psychological pressure. And turning a blind eye to all these deliveries, saying that this is garbage, is at least criminal. Want to discuss "Military" moments? So discuss? Or is it necessary to enter with rudeness? I will go down to your "corkscrew". Purely military. There is something in response to: it is not acceptable to cut them down by aviation. 300km behind the front line now do not fly. No, now, according to all sources, they don’t cross it at all. And even flying close, there is a possibility of losses. Su25 PMC recently shot down as an example. From 60-70 km, they may well hit any targets with impunity very accurately. If they give out, it's 300. Is it a lot of 4 installations? A trial batch, and no one said that there would always be 4 of them. They started with the supply of broniks, reached the PKR, and here are the first OTRK / MLRS. The first, but they may well be transferred by Poland, Germany.
        Therefore, they influence.
        1. -4
          6 June 2022 05: 13
          Great value if she kills at least ONE of our soldiers.

          you carry pathos and populist whining. Why are you here? This is a military public. That is, a public forum discussing everything related to the war. And I have never met
          good, merciful war. In any war, they kill the enemy and incur their own losses. The enemy will ALWAYS have weapons capable of killing our military personnel or civilians in our cities. It is necessary to talk about it. Mourn too. But there is no need to crow, yell and whine about "everything is lost," about every gun mount that came to Ukraine. How are you, idlers, tired (((at the time the war began in Ukraine 81 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) installation 9K58 "Smerch", 70 9P140 "Hurricane" (which in principle is comparable to Himarsami) and 185 BM-21 "Grad"! That is, more than 330 RZSO installations. And you and people like you here whined because of 4 American ones. I repeat the question: how much will be the density of artillery systems per 1 km of the front, if there are 4 systems in total, and the front is about 1000 km? I graduated from school, can I count????
          It affects morale.

          moral support affects, and whining and "everything is gone"
          300km behind the front line now do not fly.

          alarmist, from which bay-floundering were born 300 km? Or maybe 3000 km? So a little more and Himars will shoot at Donbass right from Washington. A regular MFOM flies 45km in standard and 70km in GMLRS M30 variant. It doesn’t work out for you on “purely military issues”, it’s better not to push, don’t disgrace yourself.
          Su25 PMC recently shot down as an example

          in any war, planes are shot down. I do not understand this emphasis on the Su-25.
          From 60-70 km, they may well hit any targets with impunity very accurately

          if you weren’t an empty-headed balabol, you would probably know that 9M534 from 9K58 flies to the same 90 km. And if you use 9H142, then you don’t need to aim especially. So all your exhaust is a stupid rumble from the couch in the style of "everything is gone, kill."
          Is 4 installations a lot? A trial batch, and no one said that there will always be 4 of them.

          that is, for you, for all-propellers, the concept of "waste" does not exist. You probably still think that the ukrovoyany do not have a loss in manpower and equipment? How many Hymars will remain in service for the next delivery?
          1. 0
            6 June 2022 08: 54
            Quote: Ka-52
            How many Hymars will remain in service for the next delivery?

            How many they want. M270 and other vehicles compatible with its containers, about 2 thousand. How reasonably they will be used and, accordingly, what will be the "loss" - life will show.
            1. 0
              6 June 2022 10: 14
              How many they want. M270 and other vehicles compatible with its containers, about 2 thousand.

              only a stupid person can write like that. Since, firstly, any assistance to Ukraine is 80% reimbursable, i.e. within the framework of either loans or lend-lease (actually the same loan). Accordingly, blurting out "as much as they want" means that if Ukrainians want to get 2 thousand. RZSO installations, it will cost $ 40 billion, not even counting ammunition, spare parts, etc. for them.
              How reasonably they will be used and, accordingly, what will be the "loss" - life will show.

              4 unfortunate HIMARS installations have not even managed to cross the borders of Ukraine yet, and in the Russian runet a mass death of all-propellers has begun. Who will be responsible for this genocide of the sofa-expanding mass?
              1. +1
                6 June 2022 10: 21
                Quote: Ka-52
                Accordingly, blurting out "as much as they want" means that if Ukrainians want to get 2 thousand. RZSO installations, it will cost $ 40 billion, not even counting ammunition, spare parts, etc. for them.

                By "want" I meant the Wishlist of non-Ukrainians.
                Quote: Ka-52
                4 unfortunate HIMARS installations

                More to come, stay tuned. But you are right, of course, these systems are still promises, not deeds. Let's wait.
                1. -1
                  21 June 2022 07: 09
                  That's not a promise anymore. The first strikes were launched against Donetsk. And something often became pointwise, (this had not been observed before) to tear up warehouses with ammunition, in different places, burned down a part of the Ministry of Emergencies, and a lot of very strange things. At the same time, 8 more installations will arrive in the near future, and hundreds of missiles to them. And these are the bits of information that we know. Well, local boors, like k52, continue to mumble about "lies, lies", it doesn't work, etc. And by the way, the United States, he didn't talk about Britain and others.
                  1. -1
                    21 June 2022 07: 15
                    At the same time, 8 more installations will arrive in the near future, and hundreds of missiles to them.

                    You're great at creating a panic. You're like a trolley on the payroll
                  2. 0
                    21 June 2022 08: 34
                    Quote: TerraSandera
                    The first blows were sent to Donetsk

                    Well, in Donetsk, only the lazy does not start. Now, if they begin to seriously put pressure on artillery and supplies, then yes, it will be noticeable.
          2. 0
            10 June 2022 21: 41
            In addition to rudeness, I did not really see anything. Well, it's not fate, apparently. Please don't comment on my posts anymore. Just because it's disgusting. I don't see the point in posting an answer.
            1. -2
              20 June 2022 06: 30
              please do not write nonsense in the comments and do not embarrass other gullible commentators with it. And if next time you want to shout from the fence about "everything is gone, akhtungubi", then be prepared for the fact that they can always poke your nose
              1. -1
                20 June 2022 19: 15
                For those who do not understand, once again I ask you not to write answers under my comments, and not to switch to rudeness. If you are not satisfied with something specifically my personality, or my opinion, pass by. I hope this is the last time.
                1. -1
                  21 June 2022 04: 38
                  I need your personality as much as last year's snow. As well as advice on where to write and where not to write. If you don't want to read, you have two options. First - stop writing lies and nonsense. Second (in the event that you cannot overcome all the irrepressible desire to lie), then simply delete your account from this public. Then no one will bother you laughing The choice is yours
                  1. -1
                    21 June 2022 07: 03
                    Lies and nonsense is your prerogative. So not on the way. And evaluate posts by forum users, and not by local "city madmen"
                    1. -1
                      21 June 2022 07: 08
                      resentment, the campaign of all your brains is enough only to put minuses laughing
                      Lies and nonsense is your prerogative

                      you've been disgraced several times in a lie. For example, when he wrote about the range of cannon artillery and rocket launchers. when I poked your nose into your lies, then you just merged into a dull "crow" about "write mine" lol
                      1. 0
                        21 June 2022 08: 05
                        There are no lies there. Poke your friends, if any. And learn to quote without mistakes. About ammunition striking up to 300 km, this is not fiction and nonsense. Google to the rescue, I hope you mastered it. The fact that America said that it would not transfer them, well, do you believe their gentlemen's word? Good luck. In the meantime, America has agreed to transfer the next 8 installations to those "there will be no total of 4 units" + Britain will transfer / gave several, and other countries are at the stage.
                        In the meantime, warehouses with ammunition and fuel and lubricants began to be taken out in Donetsk and not only, this is in addition to heavy shelling of civilians.
                      2. -1
                        21 June 2022 08: 22
                        ahahaha, you decided to show off your ability to click on wikipedia again? Well then, let me tell you the news: the M142 HIMARS system has two classes of ammunition: 1. the conventional M26 rocket and its modifications with a range to 70km. 2. ATACMS operational-tactical missile with a range of up to 300 km. So, not a single NATO country, which is armed with the M142, will not supply Ukraine with OTRK ATACMS! Only ordinary ammunition, albeit with increased range and accuracy. Buddy, you fell face down in the kaku again laughing I already feel sorry for you crying
                      3. -1
                        21 June 2022 21: 34
                        What I wrote about. Therefore, I did not lie, but you. Ammunition still exists, but they will either supply it or not, it’s up to the Americans to decide. And I wrote above that neither you, nor me, nor even Shoigu "gentlemen" will ask permission. They signed with blood that they did not and would not supply any lethal weapons before the conflict, only helmets and armor, but alas, they changed their minds, and then the javelins decided, and that's it, nothing more. But damn it, they changed their minds again, now it’s understood that tanks are also possible, and MLRS / otrk, MANPADS, drones, anti-tank systems in the hundreds and the count has already gone into the thousands. And you continue to believe the "gentlemen." And of course, they did not attack the territory of Russia. She herself, And their turntables just thought it was Donbass?
                        This question is closed, you yourself admitted that shells for the system exist. Exactly what I wrote about. And to assure that I lied, at least stupid.
                      4. -1
                        22 June 2022 04: 38
                        don't write nonsense. Do not compare an operational-tactical ballistic missile and conventional weapons. Ballistic missiles from a range of 500 km generally already fall under START3. This is a serious weapon, the spread of which all countries want to avoid. OTP ATACMS in the Block 1A variant, namely those that fly 300 km, in general, only 2 countries have in the world, despite the fact that 142 countries have the M270 and M16 installations themselves.
                        So let's not try to hang noodles on my ears with these horror stories. War is war. It gets shot and killed, it's inevitable. We feel sorry for our fighters, and even more sorry for the civilians. But if the front is 15 km from the millionth city, it is impossible to avoid them. And yelling "everything is lost" is useless here.
                      5. -1
                        23 June 2022 01: 16
                        Lord, merged, calm down already. Just back off. I proved, no, you yourself have already proved that my words that it can shoot up to 300 is TRUE. And all your attempts to accuse of lies debunked himself. And this is an otrk, or a MLRS, which they charge, it will fly to them, because K is a universal launcher. And what will be given to them, no one knows. Their promises not to transfer can be multiplied by 0, just like now, that they were before, about the non-flying car. The question is finally closed.
                      6. -1
                        23 June 2022 04: 51
                        don't whine. You enriched yourself by claiming that now the forelocks will start to figure out for 300 km. And at such a range, they will only be able to shoot with your snot, which you dissolved here. In fact, we summarize: the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have ammunition for firing at a distance of 300 km. In the future, their delivery to Ukraine is extremely doubtful, at the level of the delivery of nuclear weapons to Ukraine. You're just another Internet balabol on the payroll. Most likely some kind of adept of Navalny, a lover of squabbles "Putils leaked, everything is gone!". People like you whip up hysteria in society, supposedly soldiers are killed, then innumerable committees of soldiers' mothers appear with interviews with sobbing old women on the central channels, then the Kovalevs appear with calls on the soldiers to lay down their arms and surrender .... we went to Chechenskaya, we know ...
                      7. -1
                        23 June 2022 18: 48
                        Clearly, you continue to be rude, because there is nothing to say. Good luck, tin lumberjack. There is nothing to say on the topic - an agent of the State Department / Navalny / etc. stamps. Many times he offered to lag behind, but apparently he likes to spoil. Failure.
                      8. -1
                        24 June 2022 04: 41
                        if you wanted to be left behind, you would have shut up a long time ago. But I see you have a love for self-humiliation and you have been writing to me for the third day. And for the third day I poke your face into your own liquid embarrassment laughing
                      9. -1
                        24 June 2022 06: 54
                        Shame on the nickname, mediocrity. It’s you who can’t fall behind, like a bath sheet.
                      10. -1
                        24 June 2022 06: 58
                        hahaha, I told you that you are a masochist and love to be humiliated laughing laughing laughing
                        leave me alone, LGBT, you made a mistake with the site. Here your sexual inclinations are not in use stop
                      11. -1
                        24 June 2022 22: 21
                        PPC, I didn’t think that such ghouls live on a respected military forum. A typical sofa anmaner masquerading as a connoisseur. sofa humiliator)
                      12. -1
                        27 June 2022 06: 25
                        yes, I didn’t think that ladies with low social responsibility like you live on a respected military forum. Why are you selling your homeland, skin?
                      13. The comment was deleted.
  8. +3
    3 June 2022 07: 34
    Uryaya! We will win! By the way, today is the anniversary - 100 days since we win.
  9. +4
    3 June 2022 08: 58
    The question here is how much money Russia will spend to neutralize every cheap unguided missile fired from these bugbears ... after all, NURS are much cheaper and there are more of them than the expensive air defense system. And if the Americans supply thousands of NURSs, then how many missiles are needed to neutralize them all, they will only carry out these missiles and devastate the entire air defense force. so it is necessary to destroy these bugbears before use - to identify and destroy .. and not wait for use.
  10. -1
    3 June 2022 09: 18
    The United States, stating that they "immediately discussed with Kyiv the issue of the inadmissibility of strikes on the territory of the Russian Federation," practically agreed with strikes on civilian objects and the population! In addition, England stated that it would also supply these MLRS, but no one gave a guarantee that the shells would only be with a range of up to 80 km. It is quite possible that this is their coordinated move and such shells will appear in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    1. +4
      3 June 2022 12: 38
      Quote: Vladimir61
      The United States, stating that they "immediately discussed with Kyiv the issue of the inadmissibility of strikes on the territory of the Russian Federation," practically agreed with strikes on civilian objects and the population!

      In general, words agreement и Kiev in one sentence is an oxymoron. The Minsk agreements are an example of this.
      1. +1
        3 June 2022 17: 36
        Quote: Alexey RA
        In general, the words agreement and Kyiv in one sentence are an oxymoron. The Minsk agreements are an example of this.
        What is this for? I quoted a media post! So, bring down your intellectual potential on them ...
  11. +1
    3 June 2022 09: 31
    Ammunition Nomenclature
    A wide range of unguided and guided missiles of 227 mm caliber has been developed for the MLRS and HIMARS.

    MLRS translates as MLRS, in your case you need to specify M270 and HIMARS.
    227mm are unguided projectiles of the MFOM family.
    Managed GMLRS have a diameter of 240mm.
  12. +3
    3 June 2022 09: 34
    here you need to understand how such a technique works, having a long firing range, fired a charge of 12 missiles until they reach the target, there is time to calmly fold up and move to a safe place where no one will get you, it was also said before these events that the artillery systems 777 three sevens are not they will reach the front line, but we know that they have arrived and are already shooting at Donetsk and other cities, my opinion should have been warned that if these systems are delivered to Ukraine, we will bomb all the border cities of Lviv and others, no matter who dies there and where we will get it was I would think much more effectively if such a war is going on, you can call it an operation and in other words, it doesn’t change the essence, you need to be prepared for everything, even for the fact that Europe will take a direct part, for example, at the last stage, when we will already think that all Ukraine is already released and we will be at the target at the last fart, therefore, to act in connection with this situation, which are constantly being introduced more advanced samples of military equipment by the West and America need to be ahead of the curve and more harshly, showing our position at the same time that we will go to the end to bomb even American advisers in Lvov and Kyiv, not to make any flirtations with them, up to the use of nuclear weapons, if necessary, then in the USA, our people are already dying, and we are worried, for example, that Europe will be left without bread, otherwise supplies are difficult due to the war.
    1. -4
      3 June 2022 10: 23
      Absolutely agree. In my opinion, tactical nuclear weapons should have been loaded at the border bases in Poland. All deliveries would end on the same day.
  13. 0
    3 June 2022 09: 35
    It has long been proven that DRGs have the best results. Why don't we use . Maybe because it is necessary to train as many troops as possible. Syria is one thing, Europe is another. We need to add America to this. As the great Lenin bequeathed. Learn and so 3 times.
  14. -1
    3 June 2022 09: 40
    Quote: Negro
    on the other hand, for air-to-surface missiles, the restrictions are much softer. So it is politically easier to give Ukraine air missiles if the issue with the carrier is resolved.

    What's the point of air-to-surface missiles if there is no aircraft capable of carrying them? Is it possible to lift it up in a large balloon, and from there launch it from a slingshot ... wassat
    1. +6
      3 June 2022 10: 34
      As I already wrote "if the issue with the carrier is resolved." If the Americans suddenly need it badly - in a matter of days.
  15. +5
    3 June 2022 10: 32
    Oh, Ryabov has moved to a new level.
    It should be noted that the Russian army will receive some benefits from American supplies.
  16. +1
    3 June 2022 10: 56
    After reading the article, I want to say: "God forbid that it be so."
  17. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      3 June 2022 11: 43
      It seems that until the first rocket hits Moscow, they won’t wake up there

      Few of the VIPs live in Moscow anymore, and even rarely when someone appears.
      The most unfortunate - live in the near suburbs (Rublyovo-Uspenskoe highway and so on). Solovyov or some Skabeeva somewhere may be in Moscow, so there will be a topic on the first channel, "if anything."

      On May 9, or at the message of the President, VIPs in Moscow gather. And then, this year, something is not heard from the President’s message ... and it’s not even audible when it will be heard: “The President’s message to the Federal Assembly will definitely be this year, but the date has not yet been determined. , press secretary of the head of state Dmitry Peskov. https://rg.ru/2022/05/17/peskov-tochnoj-daty-poslaniia-prezidenta-eshche-net.html
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. 0
    3 June 2022 12: 21
    Strange, but "bald from Brazzers", in the sense of Colonel Markus Reisner, head of the research and development department of the Austrian Teresian Military Academy (an analogue of the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian Federation) is not sure that the MLRS MLRS / HIMARS will be in Ukraine (from 13.51)


    A lot of interesting things: "combat fatigue of the Armed Forces of Ukraine", the benefits of the T62, "pitting" in the Donbass, MLRS are needed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to "solve the issue of artillery" of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, and where and how the NMD can develop further.
  20. BAI
    +1
    3 June 2022 12: 42
    In addition, Washington will demand not to use missiles on targets in Russia in order to avoid escalation.

    And in the Crimea - you can. From all points of view of the "international community" he is Ukrainian. And if Ukraine does not strike at Crimea with them, then it agrees that Crimea is Russian. Those. must hit.
    And what will we do?
    1. 0
      9 June 2022 23: 33
      I met an interview with some Ukrainian military expert, he said there that all the equipment received from the allies is immediately delivered to the front in complex ways, without being stored anywhere (to avoid detection of the warehouse and shelling).
      There is only one way out: it is necessary to hit the Polish airfields where American transport workers land. Warehouses, bases where this equipment accumulates.
      GI is a coward, having received on the forehead, GI will turn away. Then the victory over the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be within a year, maybe less.
      Either way, it's worth a try, even if it doesn't work.
  21. +1
    3 June 2022 16: 09
    Our army has repeatedly shown its ability to detect and destroy military cargo at the stage of transportation. The existing reconnaissance and strike systems are quite capable of coping with new cargoes in the form of MLRS / HIMARS.

    Well, if 10 percent were destroyed. And so basically everything safely reaches the front line. The same 777 howitzers or T-72 tanks, as a vivid example of this.
  22. +2
    3 June 2022 16: 33
    [With sufficient speed of these systems, the first launch will be the last.]
    What about not fast enough? After starting, this contraption takes off after 2 minutes and leaves. Who in the Aerospace Forces or in the RF SV is so sharp as to detect, determine coordinates, give target designation, and work out the means of destruction and shoot at it accurately? So this wagon is very, very dangerous.
  23. -1
    3 June 2022 19: 03
    In terms of technical and ballistic characteristics, missiles for MLRS / HIMARS are similar to the shells of the Uragan and Smerch systems

    In general, nothing new. This will also move. There will be flour, well, or ashes.
  24. -1
    4 June 2022 08: 56
    It is quite possible that the vehicles received will be destroyed even before the first attempt at combat use.


    That would be ideal, I wish you success in intelligence to identify the location of this technique. And there is already the case of high-precision weapons. Go guys!
  25. +1
    4 June 2022 19: 56
    The range of projectile missiles is only theoretically large. Only 3 modifications, m25/30/142 which can be supplied because the rest only exist as patterns. And do not tell my slippers that a rocket with a diameter of 227mm, a length of 3930mm has a range of 270 - 500 km. A frank star from fans. One thing is not clear - do people really not understand that in addition to a missile of such a small size, a guidance system and target designation are also needed. This is an advertisement for weapons, as always, with added performance characteristics. Let me remind you that the Tornado Smerch rocket projectile diameter is 300mm, length is 7m. There is a modification of correctable up to 200 m with increased accuracy, and mainly areal from 40 to 120 km, depending on the modification.
    1. 0
      6 June 2022 21: 46
      I don't understand why these unguided missiles are considered very accurate? The wind is there. And at different heights it is different and demolishes the rocket. There will be an ellipse of dispersion. They say that straight accuracy is 5-7 meters. Is it that all 12 unguided, uncorrected MLRS missiles at a distance of 30-70 km will fall into a circle with a radius of 5-7 meters? Something unbelievable. It is the same with cannon artillery. Shells are also affected by environmental factors and barrel shot.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  26. 0
    4 June 2022 20: 12
    Syria was not enough for them, now they decided to test their new weapons in Ukraine? It's not so easy to make trophies out of him - if only the partisans from the other side help, or the sabotage reconnaissance groups do their best. Yes, one installation on a heroic star with a huge bonus will pull. In this case, the question is: How does the Russian Federation help in combat operations with the presence of one hundred and twenty billion dollars? Something seems, in vain they have bred so many, they can neither fight nor work well. They just need a little help.
  27. 0
    5 June 2022 09: 57
    Destroy on the way
    1. The comment was deleted.
  28. mva
    0
    7 June 2022 14: 19
    Dear author, please explain why, if "Our army has repeatedly shown its ability to detect and destroy military cargo at the transportation stage", the special operation has already been going on for more than 3 months? What is the percentage of this very detection and destruction? If the percentage was close to at least 90, then the special operation would have ended long ago, however.
  29. 0
    9 June 2022 23: 27
    By launching missiles, artillery reconnaissance will be able to detect the position of the MLRS and issue target designation to fire weapons. With sufficient speed of these systems, the first launch will be the last.

    Wishes for the sake of wishes.
    How long will it take to launch 1-6 missiles and immediately change position? - Clearly less than it will take to identify the position of "Himars", especially at ranges of 70-290 km.
    And how to get in response, Iskander? But the target is already gone.
    As the experience of the last war in Karabakh shows, Bayraktar can be effective for hunting for artillery and MLRS, and even better is Avenger.
    But they are fighting (soon to be fighting) on ​​the other side.
  30. AML
    +1
    10 June 2022 22: 09
    Quote from TreeSmall
    The fuel is more energetic, so Isp is greater. We never reached their results (Mace and Trident d2)

    But nothing that the Trident is 2 times heavier? And with all this, it flies over shorter distances.
  31. 0
    12 June 2022 16: 31
    These MLRS/HIMARS did not appear yesterday. Haven't we come up with ways to deal with them? It’s good that we are fighting with the Ukrainian army, which has mainly Soviet weapons, but what if we have to fight with a country where these MLRS are in service en masse? In general, the news about the superiority of NATO cannon artillery over ours is shocking. These are M777, Caesars, Polish Crabs. Russian artillery was praised so much on TV, but it turns out that in Western countries the standard for firing conventional OFS has long been 30-40 km, and we still have a standard of 20 km. If NATO has such superiority in these types of weapons, then probably there are no "analogues" from our side in other weapons either?
  32. -2
    1 July 2022 10: 57
    these are all consequences of the policy of slow grinding. soon the bones will be ground to us so that it won’t seem enough
    1. +1
      6 July 2022 00: 03
      Demoted to the rank and file, for such speeches ... !!!
  33. +1
    6 July 2022 00: 00
    Haven't been for a few years...
    - Demoted from lieutenant colonel to Mamlei ...))
    1. 0
      6 July 2022 00: 12
      Quote: GRIGORIY1957
      Haven't been for a few years...

      There was a "reform of the stars" here, they "raised in price" a lot.

      Quote: GRIGORIY1957
      Demoted from lieutenant colonel to Mamlei ...))

      Lieutenant colonel now from 70000 request
  34. 0
    27 July 2022 10: 14
    Himars proved to be the usual average. To Tornado-With them far away
  35. 0
    28 July 2023 14: 50
    I read this post on July 28, 2023. Roughly a year later. And I see that it turned out far from what the author wrote. HIMARS brought a lot of trouble to our troops. During the shelling, many people died, both among the military and among the civilian population. Quite a few objects, both civilian and military, have been destroyed. And despite the statements of the RF Ministry of Defense, I have not seen evidence of the destruction of at least one HIMARS or MLRS launcher.