Samurai revive carrier-based aviation

74

Modernization of the second Kaga helicopter carrier has begun. Now it is a complete re-equipment into a light aircraft carrier, which, in general, was originally intended, since its positioning as a PLO helicopter carrier or landing, to put it mildly, did not inspire confidence, since the very concept of a PLO helicopter carrier cruiser or simply converting an ordinary cruiser into a helicopter carrier - wrong.

The cruisers "Moscow" and "Leningrad" had excessively large air groups for anti-aircraft defense purposes, but quite decent missile weapons, both anti-aircraft defense and air defense. Unsuccessful conversions from conventional cruisers had small air groups, an average of 6-10 helicopters, but in reality there were fewer of them on board. However, the fashion for such extravagant ships quickly passed. Although they served for a long time, they performed completely different functions than originally intended.



The scope of work will be greater than at Izumo. They are going to remake the bow of the flight deck into a rectangular shape (at Izumo it is trapezoidal). It is difficult to say what improvements this will bring, perhaps the increase in deck area will facilitate the work of the deck crew.

Nothing was said about the installation of a springboard, as on the British Invincible, as well as about catapults. That is, the Lightings will have to take off in the usual way - from a short takeoff, which immediately reduces the payload. Landing vertically, which lengthens the landing time, compared with an arrester. The time for servicing the Lightning during landing increases, especially in fresh weather. The second, very topical issue is early warning radar. Since the dimensions do not allow to place a "hokai", it means that it will be necessary to purchase British AWACS helicopters, which again worsens the situation for the Japanese.

I won’t even delve into this issue - all comrades who already know all the shortcomings of AWACS helicopters, both Soviet (Russian) and British, in the subject. The only question is, how many will there be - two or three? Alas, the size of the hangar will not allow taking on board many of these "turntables", since space is required for both Lightings and PLO helicopters, they are also search and rescue. Based on the size of the hull and, accordingly, the hangar, the air group, even if the hangar is expanded in the new part, will hardly exceed 20 aircraft.

Expediency


Having discussed news, I would like to comment on the very expediency of such aircraft carriers. It is my deep conviction, which, however, I do not impose on anyone, that the Falklands War showed their complete failure, despite the fact that the Hermes was originally a completely normal aircraft carrier - 24 tons of standard displacement, 000 tons of full displacement, against 29/000 19 tons from his Japanese colleagues. By the way, such a ratio of the standard and full displacement of the Japanese raises certain suspicions - the Japanese "cheated" something during the "Washington" restrictions.

Even he, in the role of the carrier of the Sea Harriers, was not very successful; it is generally better to remain silent about Invincible. The victory in the war for the British was ensured by the geography and the "captive" attitude of the top Argentine military-political leadership. Again, I will not go into the vicissitudes of the "Hundred Day War", a lot has been written and said about this, including it was discussed more than once on this resource.

Well, as a summary - against whom and how will this very “light” aircraft carrier be used?

The French came to the conclusion that their "Charles de Gaulle" does not correspond to reality, so the promising aircraft carrier will already have quite a serious 60 tons of displacement. Chinese and Indian aircraft carriers under construction will have approximately the same displacement. Even the Vikrant, largely an experimental ship, on which the Indians practiced a smooth transition from the Gorshkov to a normal aircraft carrier, and that one is 000 tons.

The question of who and how the Japanese are going to fight remains open. I would like to hear the opinion of all caring comrades, especially since such a strengthening of the Japanese fleet directly and directly concerns Russia.
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  1. -12
    6 June 2022 04: 46
    Having discussed the news itself, I would like to comment on the very expediency of such aircraft carriers.

    It is doubtful not only the availability, but also the very production of such ships in the presence of modern anti-ship missiles.
    They will be seen until the first salvo. The fate of RK "Moscow" is a confirmation of this.
    1. +11
      6 June 2022 05: 08
      In order to use the most modern anti-ship missiles. The ships must approach at an appropriate distance, plus there must be reconnaissance and control facilities.
      The tactics of application, first to suppress everything on the coast with the help of missile and bomb strikes, and only after that enter the anti-ship missile strike zone.
      If the cruiser Moskva was hit by anti-ship missiles, then we did not comply with the first principle, to suppress everything on the coast. Which is not done for a known reason.
      1. -7
        6 June 2022 06: 31
        Japan in good weather is visible from the island in the Kuril Islands .. and our Zircons reach targets at ranges up to 1000 km, according to official reports.
        So the use of Japanese helicopter carriers near our shores is doubtful ... rather, they are preparing for a war with China or North Korea.
        Let's see how far the Japanese will go in reformatting their Self-Defense Forces into full-fledged armies and navies. what
        1. -6
          6 June 2022 10: 42
          Well, as we take Nikolaev, we will begin to build a series of new aircraft carriers.
          1. +3
            6 June 2022 11: 33
            Quote: Civil
            Well, as we take Nikolaev, we will begin to build a series of new aircraft carriers.

            For??? Is there a strategic line for their use, or will we start, following the example of the Americans, to shake military power anywhere?
          2. +6
            6 June 2022 14: 20
            I want to upset you. Firstly, the factories themselves are in a dead state. Secondly, workers from these, as well as from Kherson shipyards, are now working in Europe. Whether they want to come back is a big question.
            1. +3
              6 June 2022 23: 51
              Quote: TermNachTER
              Firstly, the factories themselves are in a dead state

              The value of Nikolaev for USC and the Navy is primarily not in shipbuilding plants, but in Zarya-Mashproekt, a manufacturer of power plants for a wide range of ships and vessels. Look at their price list, there are SUCH gas turbines and power plants on them that build at least an aircraft carrier, at least a cruiser, at least jambs of destroyers.
              And to the objection that "we ourselves have a mustache" I will answer - to show off with such a mustache ... it's better to shoot yourself. And the problem is not even in the gas turbines themselves (I’m generally silent about marine diesel engines), but in the running gears for them.
              Even on Kolomna diesel engines, we are unable to produce more than one power plant for corvettes a year !!
              And how much torment from the power plant for frigates pr. 22350 ... it's just a poem about ... the king, the yard, the stake and the bast. The other day, AGAIN, they cheerfully reported that the GEM was launched into mass production. angry And at the same time, there is NO (!) Information about the beginning and course of sea trials of the Admiral Golovko. Even though it's already summer 2022!! And it follows from this that there is no practical evidence that the UEC has succeeded in this power plant ... One such power plant (the very first) for this frigate has already been ruined. So there is nothing to brag about either the UEC or USC yet - we don’t have a single ship with a domestic power plant (this is not about corvettes, which I already mentioned).
              Quote: TermNachTER
              workers from these, as well as from the Kherson shipyards, are now working in Europe. Whether they want to come back is a big question.

              And CVDs are more interesting for their infrastructure and location. It will take longer to restore them than the Kerch "Zaliv", and to train specialists from scratch in general - the former specialists, if anyone is alive, are definitely not workers. So the shipyards will not work there soon.
              But the GEM would be useful.
              But they won't be either - the equipment is being taken out of the factory, and after the storming of the city, there will be less enterprises left than Mariupol.

              But there is nothing to be sad about when everything is in such reliable and strong hands - Gref will bring "Danya Milokhin", Peskov's daughter will return ... and they will raise the shipbuilding industry ... and they will build the Fleet.
              And they will be born from an aspen ... golden oranges.
              1. +2
                7 June 2022 14: 20
                At Zarya, out of 10 employees, 000 remained, their qualifications raise certain doubts. In what volumes they will be able to produce gas turbines is a big question. There is information that after the arrival of the "caliber", those two gas turbines for India were destroyed. The production of new ones will be delayed for an unknown time. Something like this, so, most likely, "Dawn" will have to be raised practically from "4".
                1. +3
                  7 June 2022 20: 16
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  At Zarya, out of 10 employees, 000 remained, their qualifications raise certain doubts.

                  I don’t know who, but the Chinese and Indians have no doubts about their qualifications. For the turbines of the entire Chinese fleet, ZMP supplied the most critical components until very recently. The assembled power plants were supplied to the Hindus for all ships under construction.
                  Or is there something better in Russia?
                  Especially for travel gears?
                  And if turbines and diesel engines in the Russian Federation are somehow done through a stump-deck, then with gearboxes ... it’s bad with them.
                  And the ZMP provided the entire Soviet Fleet of the power plant, despite the fact that for the last 15 (!!!) last years of the existence of the USSR, the Americans and I went head to head in the pace of building warships (according to the total VI).
                  And in terms of the number of ships and turbines on them, we outnumbered the Americans.
                  That's what ZMP is.
                  If the Russian Federation had such, since 2008 we would have already rebuilt SUCH an ocean fleet ... And there was money, and there were plans ... there was no plant.
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  There is information that after the arrival of the "caliber", those two gas turbines for India were destroyed.

                  And this is already a "pig" to a strategic partner. Hopefully unintentional.
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  most likely "Dawn" will have to be raised almost from "0".

                  Judging by the state of the city and enterprises after the assault, yes, they will have to be raised almost from scratch.
                  And if in due time UM and prudence were applied, then Nikolaev could well have been taken in the first jerk ... The city is (for us) strategic.
                  But what is not, is not.
                  Therefore, there is no GEM.
                  1. 0
                    7 June 2022 20: 59
                    China has not been buying Nikolaev gas turbines for a long time, back in the 90s, all the necessary technologies were transferred. The Indians also adopted technology, so that in a few more years the Indians would also have abandoned the Nikolaev gas turbines.
                    1. +4
                      7 June 2022 23: 15
                      Quote: TermNachTER
                      China has not been buying Nikolaev gas turbines for a long time, back in the 90s, all the necessary technologies were transferred.

                      This is true . But the technical process was not immediately debugged, so a number of components continued to come from Nikolaev. And until recently, ZMP continued to supply some critical components to China - components for almost every turbine.
                      There is such a thing as a debugged technical process, and there it is debugged.
                      And if you look at their price list - a list of all the proposed gas turbines and travel gears, then you just want to howl - everything is there ... EVERYTHING we need for the construction of the Ocean Fleet. Including the same gas turbines that are now on Chinese aircraft carriers and "destroyers" of the type. 055 . There are power plants for all types of ships from boats and corvettes to AB and cruisers. And production facilities capable of satisfying ANY demand of ALL domestic shipyards. Indeed, now such a low rate of construction of ships is ONLY due to the lack of a power plant. If the industry gives birth to ONE (!!!) power plant for a corvette per year (!!!), then this is just a disaster. And all the assurances of defective managers that "we can, we will replace imports" after 8 years with zero results ... look unconvincing.
                      ZMP - until very recently, was one of the flagships of military engine building, and the FOUNDER of gas turbine power plants. Yes, yes - the USSR was the first to install gas turbines on warships.
                      The modern Russian Federation has nothing to boast of in this field.
                      Until now - nothing.
                      And if so, then we must return the Soviet legacy to ourselves and continue to do everything ourselves.
                      1. -1
                        7 June 2022 23: 19
                        There is practically nothing to return there - the plant is half-killed, there are no new developments, junk was riveted. "Dawn" was in a shitty position, it is state-owned. The director was appointed by Kuev, and this director thought for his own pocket, and not for the plant.
                      2. +3
                        8 June 2022 00: 57
                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        no new developments, junk riveted.

                        Have you seen this old one?
                        The entire Chinese fleet runs on their developments. Do you think the GTU 055 is junk?
                        In this case, the entire American fleet goes to junk - their gas turbines are both on the "Tics", and on the "Burks" the same - junk.
                        We can only dream of such "junk".
                        Moreover, it is not even the turbines themselves that are critical for Russia, we can somehow do them with sin in half. We are critical of running reduction gears with torque addition.
                        We don't have one like that. But it looks like they are preparing the first one for pr. 22350M with the addition of M70FRU and M90FR ... and so far it seems that the result has not been achieved.
                        And the ZMP has gearboxes in its assets, on which they managed to add not two, but three, and even four turbines per shaft !! Look at the power plant of the cruiser "Moskva", this is a masterpiece - 4 turbines, at the same time: one marching gas, the second marching steam (!!!), and two of the same type of afterburner. And all four are flattened onto one shaft! And after all, how long the cruiser has served with such a unique power plant (sisterships seem to be simpler).
                        Look at the power plant pr. 1155 ...
                        It is impossible to repeat this today in the Russian Federation.
                        And ZMP riveted such power plants as hot cakes for the USSR Navy, and until recently they have not lost their competencies. Such industries in the world can be counted on the fingers of one hand. And in terms of the complexity of some of the produced power plants, perhaps there are no equals.
                        Yes - the former specialists are no longer there (as in the Russian Federation), but the plant did not stand without orders, it worked. The same China, although it still localized (not without problems) the production of power plants at home, but until the last moment did not disdain to order part of the critical components specifically for the ZMP.
                        And in our country, if Rybinsk is still somehow capable of turbines, then the Zvezda-Reductor brings down all orders ... just ALL orders.
                        And ZMP makes (did) more complex orders routinely and with the usual quality.
                        If Russia needs a Fleet, then it simply NEEDs Nikolaev and his ZMP.
                        If Russia needs transport aviation, helicopters in its entire range and turboprop aircraft, then it simply needs Zaporozhye.
                        These are our Soviet pearls of engine building. It is almost impossible to repeat this in modern education and government. And this has been proven by time and long unsuccessful attempts.
                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        The director was appointed by Kuev, and this director thought for his own pocket, and not for the plant.

                        In the early 00s, I knew one director of the most unique production, the author of unique technologies and technical processes ... without the products of his enterprise it would be impossible to build nuclear reactors, liquid rockets, aircraft of almost all types.
                        This man saved his production in the 90s from bankruptcy and privatization, kept it in state ownership, kept a unique team (at that time at least).
                        And there was this enterprise in Ukraine.
                        And his products were needed in Russia.
                        And there were a lot of people who wanted to prevent Russia from getting such a production.
                        But such production was still acquired thanks to this wonderful person. And although the "new authorities of the Russian Federation" did not treat him very nicely ... and even due to their stupidity they did not receive the entire range of his developments, but ... Ros-Atom is now the most successful company in the world, in this industry. And we are now building submarines again, and heavy liquid rockets, and combat aircraft.
                        If the enterprise, which remained state-owned, was not bankrupt, plundered and did not degrade to the level of a "carpentry workshop", this is the merit exclusively of its director.
                        And ZMP has not lost its competencies until recently. And it is not the fault of the enterprise or its director that the politicians deprived him of profitable contracts.
                      3. -1
                        8 June 2022 09: 20
                        Nothing new has been done. For 30 years after the collapse of the Union, no new developments. Yes, it still works, but they are already far behind, and now it seems even more until everything is over.
                      4. +3
                        8 June 2022 20: 00
                        Quote: TermNachTER
                        Nothing new has been done. For 30 years after the collapse of the Union, no new developments.

                        This is not true . And the Chinese categorically disagree with this.
                        Those GTUs that are today on their destroyers (both types) and aircraft carriers, the development of Zarya-Mashproekt is already in the post-Soviet period.
                        Have you seen the power of those GTUs?
                        35 l \ s, 000 l \ s + ... Do you even understand that we can only dream of such turbines?
                        By the way, turbines of such and similar power are being developed in the Russian Federation now. Do you believe in quick success?
                        And at ZMP, not only all the technical documentation for these masterpieces, but also the entire technical process - these turbines are in their price list, they offer them to customers. The same India.
                        And they were ready to produce and supply the entire previous line of gas turbines and gearboxes for them (and this line is oh so long and diverse) until very recently.
                        And in general - it’s worthless so about the pearl of the Soviet engine building. Especially when in the modern Russian Federation they still have not been able to repeat a single product of this wonderful production. For the readiness, reliability and simply operability of the power plant by 22350 has not yet been confirmed in practice.
            2. -1
              9 June 2022 10: 49
              Dear author, in the case of us, the cross-eyed will be roasted in a nuclear fire. They understand this when Hiroshima is remembered. If only the balls would be steel at the leadership hi
              1. +2
                9 June 2022 14: 12
                Well, a nuclear meat grinder is already the most extreme option, I hope that it will not come to it.
        2. +1
          6 June 2022 20: 29
          And who will stop them?
        3. +1
          6 June 2022 22: 31
          It is unlikely that China, the fleet has a different weight category there.
        4. 0
          10 August 2022 18: 19
          So look at life in good weather. That's just bombing ..... a dream?
      2. +3
        7 June 2022 09: 42
        Absolutely agree. The use of any long-range missiles against sea targets requires clear target designation. And this is either AWACS aircraft or ships or satellites. At the end of the 90s, I remember, our satellite constellation practically collapsed, which led to a sharp limitation in the possibility of using project 949a submarines. They just stopped seeing the enemy. There is no DPLO aviation, and the multi-purpose boats that were supposed to be used for aiming at the target went to the AFI.
    2. for
      +1
      6 June 2022 05: 22
      Quote: ROSS 42
      The fate of RK "Moscow" is a confirmation of this.

      Probably there is no reason for RCC, something else. My opinion is an underwater defeat. Yes, and the Struggle for Vitality failed, they obviously were not going to save him.

      https://topwar.ru/195090-v-seti-pojavilis-foto-predpolozhitelno-s-krejserom-moskva-vo-vremja-pozhara.html
      1. +7
        6 June 2022 07: 02
        Quote: for
        Probably there is no reason for RCC, something else.

        Probably ... Fires arise due to a violation of the fire safety regulations and oiled rags scattered here and there.
        And this version is the most correct, if the RK itself is at the bottom, and information about the place of defeat is not available ... As with the Kursk, it drowned and tried ...
        We believe where we go ... wassat
    3. +8
      6 June 2022 11: 09
      Quote: ROSS 42
      It is doubtful not only the availability, but also the very production of such ships in the presence of modern anti-ship missiles.

      The combat radius of deck-based IS and the range of modern air-launched missiles make it possible not to enter the reach of coastal anti-ship missile systems. Plus - the complexity of target designation for a distant and moving target. Of course, such ships are a compromise, because the Japanese do only what the democrats allow. But it will no longer be possible to discount them, because 40 vehicles can seriously affect the balance of power in a local conflict.

      To Article:
      The cruisers "Moscow" and "Leningrad" had excessively large air groups for PLO purposes ...

      Quite the opposite, project 1123 had an air group that was too small (14 aircraft), which did not satisfy the sailors, there were also complaints about seaworthiness, so they decided to increase the size of the ship, increase the air group - and so project 1143-Kyiv was born.
      The Falklands War showed their complete failure ...

      40 years have passed ... Harrier and the 35th are, to put it mildly, not the same thing ...
      Well, as a summary - against whom and how will this very “light” aircraft carrier be used?

      Against all opponents of the "world hegemon". The United States is systematically strengthening all its vassals, because one can no longer pull against "daring Russia" and "rebellious China" ...
      1. +3
        6 June 2022 14: 23
        I agree that the "Harier" is already far behind the F - 35, well, so the air defense and the RT have stood still for these years, they have also developed. But in this case, we are not talking about specific performance characteristics of aircraft or air defense systems, but about the concept of a "small aircraft carrier" itself.
        1. +6
          6 June 2022 15: 16
          The concept of a small aircraft carrier is flawed, who would argue with that. But if finances do not allow or there are political restrictions on the construction of full-fledged ones, then it is better to have a couple of lungs with three dozen IB than to have nothing ...
      2. 0
        6 June 2022 15: 18
        project 1123 had a too small air group (14 aircraft)
        I agree.
        and so the project 1143-Kyiv was born.
        And then the Yak-38 appeared and a good ship was turned into an under-aircraft carrier with under-fighters.
        1. +5
          6 June 2022 15: 31
          Quote: Vadmir
          And then the Yak-38 appeared and a good ship was turned into a non-aircraft carrier

          Well, yes, I don’t exactly agree with a “good” ship. A huge helicopter carrier with mediocre air defense, very expensive for the goals originally set. But I completely agree with the "non-aircraft carrier".
          1. +2
            7 June 2022 00: 19
            Quote: Doccor18
            But I completely agree with the "non-aircraft carrier".

            In fact, the Yak-141 was being prepared for the Krechetov, which was unacceptably late (due to the engine). If they had waited for this rearmament and received AWACS helicopters on board, everything would have sparkled with completely different colors. Such air defense / anti-aircraft carriers (do not forget about 12 anti-aircraft defense helicopters on board) could become the core of the KUG, providing aerial reconnaissance and air defense in the far zone, and most importantly, protection against low-flying anti-ship missiles such as "Harpoon" and "Tomahawk" in the PC- performance.
            After all, initially Yakovlev promised the Yak-141 almost to the commissioning of "Kyiv", and the Yak-38 was a temporary crutch - an "attack aircraft" and a training desk for future aces of carrier-based aviation.
            Not fused.
    4. +2
      6 June 2022 20: 27
      And why did you decide that your opinion is the only true one, for example, I consider it nonsense and the Yapis are doing everything right, strengthening the fleet.
    5. 0
      7 June 2022 09: 14
      Not a fact of anti-ship missiles horror for ships. In 2016, the Yemeni Houthis fired on the American destroyer of the Chinese anti-ship missiles a couple of times, they just had electronic warfare dealt with them automatically. So the question is the modernity of the ship, Moscow is still a ship from the past. He was sharpened to fight against anti-ship missiles, and not with the missiles themselves.
  2. 0
    6 June 2022 06: 06
    The entire fleet in the current realities, when UAVs are everywhere and see everything, even submarines, this is just a huge cost for target ships.
  3. +4
    6 June 2022 06: 08
    The article is not signed. Who is the author? Who to contact?
    1. +7
      6 June 2022 14: 24
      Apparently the moderator missed it - Nikolai Yevtushenko.
  4. +1
    6 June 2022 06: 33
    Quote: for
    My opinion is an underwater defeat.

    The devil knows what happened there ... the official version of a spontaneous fire does not inspire confidence. request
    1. +2
      6 June 2022 14: 26
      The ship has a lot of fire - and explosive materials, placed very compactly. Short circuit or human factor, as it was on the Admiral Vingradov BOD.
      1. +4
        6 June 2022 15: 24
        Quote: TermNachTER
        Short circuit or human factor...

        Perhaps, but confuses that in several places.
        1. +1
          6 June 2022 16: 21
          How many places are known only to those who were on board. The rest is guesswork.
  5. +8
    6 June 2022 06: 34


    The cruisers "Moscow" and "Leningrad" had excessively large air groups for PLO purposes

    Quite the contrary - insufficient! 14 helicopters with a very limited flight duration simply did not allow for an effective round-the-clock search.
    1. 0
      6 June 2022 14: 27
      I myself did not serve at Project 1123. The conclusion is purely mine, plus reviews of individual comrades from various forums such as "Balancer".
  6. -4
    6 June 2022 06: 36
    Quote from Nauru
    The entire fleet in the current realities, when UAVs are everywhere and see everything, even submarines, this is just a huge cost for target ships.

    There are also underwater and surface unmanned vehicles. smile
    Also a hemorrhoid and a headache for naval commanders.
    1. +4
      6 June 2022 08: 24
      They are just concepts and nothing more.
  7. +4
    6 June 2022 07: 33
    I love these ships. Price-quality, great versatility, fairly simple maintenance, speed. They can be used both to protect the disputed islands with China, and to land troops on the Kuril Islands. Suitable for ship F-35. Can be used for peacekeeping operations. Also good for PLO operations, especially against diesel-electric submarines.
    By and large, this is a creatively redesigned "Mistral"
    We would not interfere with such a ship in the Pacific Fleet.
    After the modernization of "KAGA" and trial operation, I think Japan will order a couple more of these ships.
    1. 0
      6 June 2022 15: 04
      By and large, this is a creatively redesigned "Mistral"
      Mistral is UDC. And this ship has nothing to do with landing. He was originally a PLO helicopter carrier.
      Suitable for ship F-35.
      As an aircraft carrier, he will be weak, too small an air group. The absence of an AWACS aircraft.
      1. +4
        6 June 2022 16: 57
        Quote: Vadmir
        The absence of an AWACS aircraft.

        Heh heh, not really.

        Penguin himself can work as an AWACS aircraft for a strike group. Awesome car.
  8. -8
    6 June 2022 08: 05
    The question of who and how the Japanese are going to fight remains open.


    If they want to fight with Russia, then the Zircon missile will reduce all attempts from helicopter carriers to zero, and the Dagger will easily cope, the pretty ones will drown.
    1. +3
      6 June 2022 11: 16
      Quote: Maximus196723
      If they want to fight with Russia

      If they start, it will be only when they are at the peak of their strength, and Russia is in weakness, but definitely not now.
      Quote: Maximus196723
      the Zircon rocket will nullify,

      If they solve all the problems with target designation ...
      Quote: Maximus196723
      The dagger will easily cope,

      With complete air supremacy of Japanese aviation? Doubtful...
      1. -6
        6 June 2022 11: 53
        Quote: Doccor18
        With complete air supremacy of Japanese aviation? Doubtful...

        It is doubtful that Japanese aviation has complete air supremacy.
        Japan - a country located on the islands, like GB, like a number of other "small land" countries, has one weakness: it cannot withstand a missile strike for a long time and has a chance to get out of world history before their aircraft begin to "dominate" the air.
        *****
        As for the opposition, which considers the aircraft carrier an unsinkable target ... Too lazy to explain. If the UAV was taught to do without the help of satellite navigation ... If the missiles hit the window at a distance of THOUSAND kilometers ... If the same "Caliber" is able to fly 2 km ... I SUPPOSE that the RCC will pass this distance and even hit a moving target , no matter how it rests ... For every target OUTSIDE the access zone there is its own "Caliber" or "Zircon" ... Moreover, there are also Tu-500 (m160) strategists ...
        Yes, where will the Japanese fleet go to be beyond the reach of Russian missiles? Do they have operational space? And what will they return to AFTER...
        I don't even bother coming up with a counter-strategy to the samurai.
        They hardly dare...
        1. +6
          6 June 2022 15: 08
          Quote: ROSS 42
          It is doubtful that Japanese aviation has complete air supremacy.

          In the Kuril region, they will be able to operate all their aircraft (about 300 aircraft). And how many of us will be in that area? From Primorye and Kamchatka to the limit ... Purely quantitatively, we will be in the minority.
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Japan - a country located on the islands, like GB, like a number of other "small land" countries, has one weakness: it cannot withstand a missile strike for a long time and has a chance to get out of world history before their aircraft begin to "dominate" the air.

          If you immediately start a massive missile attack on the capital of the adversary. The whole question is, shall we start ..? Or everything will be limited to a local conflict in the South Kuriles ...
          Quote: ROSS 42
          considering the aircraft carrier an unsinkable target ..

          And who considers him an "unsinkable target"? You can drown everything. All the difficulties are in the details and the availability of funds.
          Quote: ROSS 42
          I don't even bother coming up with a counter-strategy to the samurai.

          Oh well...

          Quote: ROSS 42
          They hardly dare..

          For now, yes. They are waiting. Getting ready. It is dangerous to underestimate the enemy, and such as Japan is doubly dangerous.
          1. -3
            6 June 2022 15: 25
            Quote: Doccor18
            In the Kuril region, they will be able to operate all their aircraft (about 300 aircraft).

            They can ... Only the Russian Federation can use nuclear weapons against Japan in accordance with military doctrine ...
            Quote: Doccor18
            ok, yes. They are waiting. Getting ready.

            So let them wait ... Either the Second Coming, or the Apocalypse ...
            1. +2
              6 June 2022 15: 38
              Quote: ROSS 42
              They can ... Only the Russian Federation can use nuclear weapons against Japan in accordance with military doctrine ...

              Well, yes, purely hypothetically, all in radioactive dust ...
              Quote: ROSS 42
              Either the Second Coming or the Apocalypse...

              They are waiting for the weakening (or change) of political power in the country, when the new one does not have enough will to give the order for a massive missile attack on enemy cities, because it is unlikely that it will be possible to repel an attack on the island chain in another way ...
              1. -1
                6 June 2022 15: 46
                Quote: Doccor18
                They are waiting for the weakening (or change) of political power in the country, when the new one does not have the will to order a massive missile attack on enemy cities

                It is unlikely that the new Russian government will be better than the previous one ... I do not want to move on to another topic.
    2. 0
      6 June 2022 11: 55
      In terms of mentality, religion and state structure, Japan has no friends and allies. Around all the enemies and potential slaves. Remember WWII, no morality and philanthropy. They used Germany for their own purposes, and not out of friendly sympathy. And they use us as they need, Sakhalin 1,2 shows this.
      1. +3
        6 June 2022 14: 30
        The ideology of even 2000 years ago tends to change. The Japanese society of the WWII period functioned in conditions of isolation, although it was officially canceled. Now the situation is somewhat different.
        1. -2
          6 June 2022 15: 00
          I don’t know, the topic is very controversial, Japan is too peculiar a country. And we don’t know at all what is in the minds of the Japanese, but it’s for sure that she considers her nation above all, and everywhere at all times she brought the nearby tribes and peoples to the root.
          1. +2
            6 June 2022 15: 12
            I agree, but then the samurai were the leading and guiding force. Now the situation has changed somewhat.
  9. +2
    6 June 2022 09: 37
    Samurai revive carrier-based aviation

    So Japan is not sure that the United States will not hand them over to China over time, and therefore they are arming themselves.
    1. -3
      6 June 2022 11: 57
      Quote: riwas
      So Japan is not sure that the United States will not hand them over to China over time, and therefore they are arming themselves.

      Being OUTSIDE of US interests (only as military bases or an unsinkable aircraft carrier), Japan should reconsider its priorities. The Russian Federation, the PRC, the DPRK are putting on all Japanese aggression ... And they are arming themselves because it is customary in our world.
  10. +3
    6 June 2022 11: 03
    I am interested in one question - where do they get so much metal, if none! no deposit. In addition to metal, there is a lot more needed. There are no reserves of our own, even there is not enough land (they began to build cities on bulk soil), but go ahead, they are also preoccupied with large projects. A magnificent nation! We would, with our national mineral reserves, learn this!
    1. 0
      6 June 2022 11: 59
      Quote from sofa
      We would, with our national mineral reserves, learn this!

      If we just get rid of the bullshit...
    2. +4
      6 June 2022 12: 00
      Yes, this is a paradox) The Japanese fatten having nothing but hands and brains (and the climate is somewhat better than our European one), well, theoretically having access to rare earths (even purely theoretically so far), and we, having the entire periodic table and a carload of food and renewable resources up to is still not the first (and not even the fifth) economy of the world.
      Here it cannot be said unequivocally that we work poorly (but not ideally), because the Japanese as workers are also far from perfect. Rather, the problem is in the level of education of officials, in the perfection of the legislative framework.
  11. +3
    6 June 2022 11: 52
    Considering the advanced state of Japanese robotics and computer technology, and in general their approach to the robotization of technology, I would not be surprised if these ships are specifically considered as carriers of low-profile strike UAVs, which in principle would be very logical.
    A drone carrier is generally a very attractive direction, given the progress in satellite information transmission (the same Starlink), the ability to track an image from orbit almost online, maps of the earth's surface in high resolutions, etc. This opens up the possibility of making the UAV at least partially autonomous, with the prospect of reaching directive control. Such a ship, as a carrier of these devices, would turn into a mobile platform for collecting information and launching at targets - and already manned aircraft from other carriers (larger) would cover it and provide an addition to target designation.
    1. 0
      6 June 2022 14: 31
      theoretically - it is quite possible, but so far it has not been voiced in any way.
  12. -2
    6 June 2022 14: 14
    As far as I know, following the results of the Second World War, Japan is FORBIDDEN to have its own armed forces, including offensive weapons! Only self-defense troops!
    What has changed in the world...???
    1. +3
      6 June 2022 15: 10
      Japan is FORBIDDEN to have its own armed forces
      They forbade it to themselves, but that is in the past. It is enough to have the United States as an ally and everything is possible.
      What has changed in the world...???
      Have you been in lethargy since 1945? Then yes, everything has changed.
    2. +1
      6 June 2022 20: 41
      And what was it said for, can you personally ban it?
  13. 0
    6 June 2022 20: 40
    Quote: Doccor18
    Against all opponents of the "world hegemon". The United States is systematically strengthening all its vassals, because one can no longer pull against "daring Russia" and "rebellious China" ...

    I don’t agree, they’ll pull it, but if you hit the road with a friend ...
  14. +2
    6 June 2022 21: 24
    A few years ago, I said that the yapps were stirring up something with these "destroyers". That most likely they will be converted into light aircraft carriers. Taking into account the type of defense doctrine and the type of rejection of offensive structures, this couple was directly asked for re-equipment. And do not forget that getting here and now at least some, but aircraft carriers is in any way more expedient than waiting for a dozen years, taking into account the development of a project for a full-fledged aircraft carrier and its construction. Moreover, this couple will serve as training stands for pilot training.
    Something like this
    1. 0
      7 June 2022 14: 33
      The fact that the Japanese have a weakness on ships for everything flying has been noticeable for a long time. I am sure that I will make complete order with the fleet. For them. But for us.... No.
  15. +2
    6 June 2022 21: 53
    "from a short takeoff, which immediately reduces the payload." ///
    ---
    A short takeoff of the F-35B takes place with a full load.
    But vertical takeoff - with about half the load.

    A vertical landing is much better than an arrester.
    It is safe and simple - fully automatic.
  16. 0
    7 June 2022 00: 51
    It goes without saying that Japanese small aircraft carriers are sharpened against Russia. But one must understand that Japan is going to act together with the United States. Therefore, the Japanese aircraft carriers will play a supporting role in the American AUG, where their relatively small air wing will complement the Americans. Therefore, do not treat them too dismissively. The Japanese are quite thoughtful guys and do not do stupid things.
  17. 0
    7 June 2022 14: 31
    What is there is remade. And then they do what they want. Already the Japanese were fumbling in aircraft carriers. Their shipbuilding is powerful. There is access to the very best weapons. There is money too. They know how to work.
  18. 0
    10 June 2022 08: 57
    When he turned his back on Japan for just a couple of minutes:



    You know, in this situation, I would prefer not to blink, because who knows what I will see when I open my eyes.
  19. 0
    18 July 2022 19: 40
    I don't have to worry too much as the price of the Japanese yen is plummeting and the current population of old, conservative, slowly innovating Japanese are digging their own graves.
    Me ne nuzhno sli