Harpoon and NSM missiles for Ukraine. Unresolved issues and doubtful prospects

Harpoon Rocket Transport

Recently it became known that the United States is considering the possibility of transferring modern coastal systems with anti-ship missiles to the Ukrainian army. With the help of such weapons it is planned to push Russian ships away from the ports of Ukraine and ensure the free export of agricultural products. Several options for such assistance are being considered, but all of them face technical or organizational difficulties.

Anti-ship aid

On the current discussion of possible deliveries of anti-ship missiles on May 19, Reuters reported. It received information in this regard from three unnamed officials and two representatives of Congress. According to them, the very possibility of transferring missiles, the optimal type of weapons and the method of their delivery are now being discussed in Washington.

Anti-ship missiles are considered as a means of countering the Russian Black Sea the fleet. With their help, it is proposed to push Russian ships away from Ukrainian ports, which will allow the restoration of merchant shipping. As a result, it will be possible to deliver various cargoes to Ukraine, incl. military purposes, as well as to export agricultural products.

According to Reuters, two RCC models are currently being considered as potential assistance. This is the Harpoon product from Boeing and the newer NSM rocket from Kongsberg and Raytheon. While the comparison of these missiles continues, their features are being studied and prospects are being determined as an aid to Ukraine.

Loading "Harpoon" on the carrier submarine

At the same time, there are significant difficulties of various kinds that prevent the immediate start of deliveries and the speedy deployment. So, Ukraine needs a coastal missile system, and the Harpoon anti-ship missile actually does not have a suitable land-based launcher. The possibility of transferring the ship installation to a land platform is being explored, but the timing of such a project and its success are in question.

The situation with the NSM rocket is simpler. Several launchers have already been developed for it, incl. ground. This RCC is also distinguished by a certain ease of development and operation. There is also a fundamental possibility of the earliest delivery of the complexes: they could be provided by one of the operating countries.

Deliveries and concerns

It is curious that the United States has so far only considered the possibility of supplying missiles - its own or from the presence of friendly armies. Several countries can become suppliers in such a scheme at once. However, none of them has yet been in a hurry to start shipping. Apart from technical factors, the allocation of aid is hampered by political risks. Potential suppliers are actually afraid of the consequences.

At the time of the article in Reuters, none of the countries capable of providing their anti-ship missiles wanted to become the first and / or only supplier of such weapons. They were afraid that the successful use of missiles would lead to a reaction from Russia. What it will be, and whether assistance to Ukraine will justify such risks is a big question.

Harpoon rocket launch

A possible solution for such a problem has already been proposed. A Reuters source claims that one of the countries is ready to be the first to send Harpoon missiles to Ukraine. It will set a positive example for other states, and they will also start deliveries from the presence of their armed forces. At the same time, it was not specified which country would become the “leader”.

The situation cleared up the day before. On May 23, US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin announced that the first supplier of missiles had been found. Denmark is ready to provide a certain amount of ammunition and a launcher for them. Probably, we are talking about self-propelled coastal complexes, which were in service with the Danish coastal forces until the beginning of the XNUMXs.

The supply of NSM complexes is still in question. According to Reuters, Norway can provide them. It is reported that such a proposal from the American side has already found support from the Norwegian parliamentarians. However, the Norwegian Ministry of Defense does not comment on any new deliveries of its weapons to Ukraine.

Missile threat

Harpoon and NSM products are subsonic anti-ship missiles suitable for use on different platforms. Two anti-ship missiles have different dimensions and weight, which leads to a serious difference in performance characteristics and combat capabilities.

Launch of anti-ship missiles NSM from the ship

The Harpoon missile was developed in the mid-seventies and has since been repeatedly upgraded. It is intended to arm warships, submarines and naval aircraft. aviation. A land launcher also existed and was used to a limited extent. Compatibility with different platforms contributed to the widespread use of "Harpoons". Anti-ship missiles of this type are in service with more than 30 countries.

Depending on the launch method, Harpoon has a length of 3,8 or 4,6 m with a weight of up to 690 kg. The missile is equipped with a sustainer turbojet engine, with which it can reach speeds of up to 865 km/h. The main part of the flight takes place at a height of several meters above the water. The range of the ship modification of the missile reaches 125-140 km.

Rockets "Harpoon" are equipped with a combined guidance system. The flight to the target area is carried out using an autopilot with navigation aids. The search and defeat of the target is carried out due to the active radar homing head. The missile carries a 221-kg high-explosive warhead.

Norwegian anti-ship missiles NSM is used on ships and land launchers. It is curious that it is the coastal direction that is receiving special development - several variants of such complexes have already been created and new ones are expected. An aviation modification of the JSM rocket is also being developed. To date, NSMs have entered service with three countries, and orders from several more fleets are being carried out.

One of the land launcher options for NSM

The NSM rocket is smaller and lighter than the Harpoon. Its length does not exceed 3,95 m, weight - 410 kg. The anti-ship missile is equipped with a small-sized turbojet engine, which gives it a high subsonic speed. The flight is made along one of the selected profiles with different heights. Depending on the profile, the flight range reaches 185 km.

The product is equipped with an autopilot with inertial and satellite navigation, as well as an infrared seeker with a database of typical targets. A 125-kg high-explosive warhead with a multi-mode fuse is used.

Retaliatory measures

Foreign anti-ship missiles pose an obvious threat to our ships, and the emergence of such weapons in Ukraine will lead to retaliatory measures. As the practice of recent months has shown, the Russian armed forces have all the means and capabilities to neutralize such threats, and at different stages.

Imported NSM or Harpoon missiles, as well as launchers for them, can be destroyed almost at any time after they enter Ukrainian territory. With the help of long-range means, they can be knocked out at the stage of transportation or during preparation for service. In addition, the missile system can be destroyed right at the firing position.

One of the means for the destruction of Ukrainian coastal complexes can be ship-based Kalibr missiles. They can be launched far beyond the NSM or Harpoon kill zone. This circumstance alone actually makes the supply of foreign anti-ship missiles useless.

However, the enemy may get a chance to use their new missiles and attack our fleet. In this case, the entire responsibility lies with the defense systems available on board each ship. So, to counter the GOS of the Harpoon missile, electronic warfare should be used, and the NSM guidance can be thwarted with decoys.

Also, all warships have anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems. Depending on the type of ship, an incoming missile can be hit by medium or short-range air defense systems at a distance of tens of kilometers, or by artillery in the near zone.

Deliveries in question

At the moment, the situation with possible deliveries of foreign anti-ship missiles to Ukraine looks ambiguous. Kyiv's main ally, the United States, is seriously considering such a measure and has even determined which anti-ship missiles should be included in the aid program. However, later technical and organizational problems arose.

Some of these issues appear to have been resolved. Denmark is ready to provide long-decommissioned land-based launchers and missiles of their day. Whether other countries will follow is unknown. However, given the experience of recent months, it can be expected that the supply of foreign anti-ship missiles will not be massive and will not have a significant impact on the situation as a whole - as has been repeatedly the case with other advertised foreign weapons.

Comments

[Uncle lee]

Harpoon and NSM missiles for Ukraine.

And this is a real threat to our fleet ....

[bayard]

With a high degree of probability, these missiles have already been delivered to / on and may already be deployed / deployed in the Odessa region.
And the threat to our Fleet is very serious, the only question is target designation, which will be handled by American reconnaissance aircraft, UAVs and satellites. The lesson of "Moscow" should not disappear for us in vain - a amphibious landing operation in such conditions becomes extremely unlikely, or at least extremely risky.
And this makes the ground / land operation to liberate the Odessa and Nikolaev regions extremely topical. Otherwise, such missiles can also fly at ships in the Sevastopol roadstead.
And the control of extremely low altitudes in the vicinity of Crimea becomes extremely important.

[Slon1978]

Neither Harpoon nor NSM will reach the Sevastopol raid, the shortest distance from the Odessa region is about 290 km, if you put launchers on the shore. I agree that anti-ship missiles, most likely, have already been delivered. As the experience of this special operation shows, first comes the delivery, and then the statement, and this is a reasonable approach on the part of the enemy. The main danger from these anti-ship missiles lies not at all in "pushing our ships back to unblock the ports of Odessa and Nikolaev for the export of grain and the supply of weapons," but in blocking the supply of Fr. Serpentine. You can block the supply and export of something from Odessa by (1) an official statement by the RF Armed Forces that the territorial waters of Ukraine are a war zone and without inspection by the RF Armed Forces, the admission of any ships and vessels to the territorial waters and ports of Odessa and Nikolaev is prohibited and an unauthorized access attempt will be treated as a target. (2) any ship or ship can be sunk by the Bastion SCRC (range about 300 km) or by an air strike or a submarine attack. Pushing our ships back from somewhere will not help prevent such an attack. Also, a very intriguing move and a powerful hint will be our statement on the supply of anti-ship missiles to the coastal defense forces of the DPR.

[bayard]

About anti-ship missiles (DBK) for the DPR ... yeah, it’s such a fart monocle ... but it can cheer up and bring intrigue - they say it’s not us, it’s the miners who are angry at your destroyer.
The fact that the Black Sea coast is in / on is a war zone has been stated more than once, and the prohibition zones have been cut. The question is - how to keep this blockade?
And how far from the coast?
185 km. ?
Or 280?
You can also find yourself under the Bosphorus.
And worst of all, we don’t have a ship in the Black Sea Fleet with sufficiently reliable air defense against such missiles. You can’t hang the A-50 there in a constant mode, keeping fighters on duty is also another option.
So it must be identified and destroyed.
And do not delay the land operation.

[max702]

Quote: bayard

You can’t hang A-50 there in constant mode

But why? The A-50 has a range of 7500 km, having taken off from the Crimea, you can hang 6-2 aircraft on 3/24 for 7 hours, and that's it .. The question is desire ..

[bayard]

Quote: max702

you can hang 6-2 planes for 3/24 for 7 hours, and that's it.

And how many of them do we have? For the whole Endless?
eight ? Including non-modernized ?
So it turns out that in order to hang a 24/7 AWACS aircraft there, you have to strip it.

[Sandor Clegane]

Quote: bayard

The lesson of "Moscow" should not disappear for us in vain - a amphibious landing operation in such conditions becomes extremely unlikely, or at least extremely risky.

it is for this reason that Odessa must be decomposed into molecules, it hurts me a lot to say that, I have a friend there, BUT we need to show how cities can be taken and what happens to them .....

[bayard]

Quote: Sandor Clegane

for this reason, Odessa must be decomposed into molecules

To lay it out, you first need to reach it. And you will have to go through Nikolaev, so you should not delay with such a journey.
And in general, the most desirable example for "decomposition" looks like another (no less odious city) - on the Dnieper. But it will most likely remain for dessert.

Meanwhile, in Odessa, catacombs are being prepared for a long sitting.

[uRRY]

There is no reception against a concrete mixer

[Bratkov Oleg]

They also planned to sit at Azovstal until help arrived.

[lucul]

The lesson of "Moscow" should not be wasted for us

Do you have a 100% guarantee that the cruiser "Moskva" was damaged by anti-ship missiles?

[bayard]

Yes, I saw two inlets of these anti-ship missiles - one under the helicopter hangar, the other in the middle part of the side above the waterline. Both to the left side.
Perhaps there was another one at the antenna post.

[max702]

Did you see it in person or somewhere? And yes, give at least some proof of your words ..

[bayard]

On the site "The Boy in the Mask" (funny name), Klimov and the presenter analyzed the situation for three and a half hours, including a photograph of the Moskva cruiser left by the crew with a good zoom. Two hits are clearly visible there - one under the helicopter hangar (moreover, the warhead did not seem to explode), the second in the middle part of the hull just above the waterline, and a fire broke out from it. The antenna sheets seem to have also been demolished, but it is not clear whether there was a third rocket, or the result of a fire and detonation of the BC. In general, the cruiser had to stay afloat, for this two missiles are not fatal, but either from excitement it began to flood not only holes, but also windows that were open for some reason, or just panic ... Look, evaluate it better yourself.
But we will not hear the official version for a long time.
Minus is not mine.

[Osipov9391]

But what if we assume that the attack on "Moscow" was from the air? Launching a PRR to blind the ship, then launching a pair of anti-ship missiles?
There has never been any information about the use of such weapons by the Ukrainian Air Force, and they probably do not have them at all. In the sense of X-58 and X-35. although the Su-24M is for this.

The fact that the "Harpoon" is the standard armament of the US Navy circling "Poseidon" in the district does not surprise anyone.
Theoretically, suppose that a couple of anti-ship missiles flew from it.
But could he carry the PRR Harm? Is such an opportunity provided for by the SLA?
According to the suspensions, they are the same, "Hornets" are carried on aircraft carriers by both.
But we are talking about anti-submarine aircraft.

[bayard]

Quote: Osipov9391

But what if we assume that the attack on "Moscow" was from the air? Launching a PRR to blind the ship, then launching a pair of anti-ship missiles?

Klimov allowed such a version, but I don’t believe in Ukrainian planes.
They have neither X-35 nor X-31. Although there were Su-24s, but the KR, which he could use, have too short a range and low warhead power. To launch a missile launcher from a distance of several tens of kilometers (let's say 50 km.), The plane must gain some altitude - to capture the target and just so that the rocket can start (you can’t launch such a rocket from a PMV of 20 - 50 m), and hence would have been discovered by the cruiser and shot down.
The cruise missiles were launched from a fairly large distance and approached the cruiser in the WWI at 3 - 5 m (drive layer), invisible to its "dm" radar.
So most likely the missiles were Norwegian-American, brought in by England, launched from the shore on target designation from a naval reconnaissance aircraft. Warheads did not have radar, most likely optical-thermal imaging. And warheads had a capacity of about 100 - 140 kg.

If all the details were made public, MI6 would shrug their shoulders and say that it was the Sumerians who indulged in their "Neptune".

[max702]

Klimov? I have no questions!

[BastaKarapuzik And]

The photo there is almost the same as everywhere else. There is no particularly good zoom there, in the Yandex image search, almost the same thing is found.
Noteworthy - the helicopter deck was shot down, it was warped.
Suspicion of a crack in the hull in the area of ​​​​the S-300 launchers, but nothing can be confirmed. Maybe it's just a leak.
What at first glance looks like ammunition inlets are actually fire-smoky portholes.

[bayard]

Do you think it's just a fire?
Or a fire as a result of an unsuccessful launch of the Forta rocket?
Let's say in case of absenteeism after launch or destruction of its launch container with subsequent ignition of neighboring ones?
I'm afraid in this case, the detonation could have broken the cruiser in half.

[huntsman650]

Do you have that this is not RCC?

[TermNachTer]

To the "Shtil" air defense system, which are available on project 11356, it is necessary to add "Tors" installed on the stern of patrol ships, project 22160, dimensions and displacement allow. Make paired "combos", where project 11356 works on distant targets, and project 22160 "goalkeeper" - finishes off what broke into the near zone.

[bayard]

The 22160 has poor seaworthiness, large limitations in range, and the air defense system (Thor) is not native and the antenna post is low ... It’s better to put the Tor frigate on a helipad ... but its radar will have a decent dead zone.
It is possible on about. Serpentine to put "Shell", "Thor" and 19Ж6 ... not centimeters (extreme decimeters), but at least something.
And P-18.
But who will drag them there?
We need a ground operation. And close this question once and for all.

[TermNachTer]

The ground operation is still delayed.

[Osipov9391]

Now NATO Eurofighter fighters, AWACS and some kind of RTR reconnaissance aircraft, apparently Italian, are flying on the border with the Odessa region.
They fly very actively, as it were, over the Danube.
And don't forget Serpentine. But they do not fit closer than 20 km.

[bayard]

Most likely, bulk carriers with grain are grazing, indicating their presence and insuring against interception ... They are hungry - they are saving bread.

[Osipov9391]

And the Romanians, to put it bluntly, do not have modern combat aviation? What is deep antiquity, 2-3 generation.
And several new F-16s that seem to have not yet been mastered.
Therefore, they attract the Germans, the British, the Italians within the framework of NATO.
Surely the German AWACS does not interact badly with the Eurofighter fighters of the German Air Force?

[bayard]

The usual concern for their assets is that bulk carriers carry grain, they bomb Odessa, the Russian fleet guards, the Russian Aerospace Forces flies.
So NATO flies side by side, looking after its good.

[ratcatcher]

Land needed. But. First you need to take Nikolaev. And then, go around the estuaries from above, they are perpendicular to the coast line. Because of them, it is practically impossible to get from Nikolaev in a straight line to Odessa. Therefore, it would be ideal to combine a ground operation and an amphibious landing from one side or the other of Odessa on the coast. But it is difficult and risky.

[bayard]

It is better to land troops under the Romanian border itself - away from the DBK in Odessa, and from there develop the offensive. But large forces cannot be landed there, and it will be more of a safety net, whose task is to stop the supply of Odessa from Romania.
And advance through Nikolaev.

[ratcatcher]

Yes, landing in the Izmail area is, of course, easier, but there is also a water barrier on the way to Odessa. Just a bridge across the creek, which we destroy regularly. And near the Moldovan border, there is also no normal passage, there is also water and narrow passages. As supporting strikes, it is apparently possible to land troops. If you forge the Odessa defense from the north side. Advance only through Nikolaev, nothing else. It's time to take it, of course ...

[Graz]

you don’t need to chew snot, but you need to say directly that anti-ship missiles will also be delivered to American enemies, to some frostbitten Hussites. or iran

[Stas157]

Don't Ukrainians have Neptune anti-ship missiles or what? And how did they get to Moscow then?
And there is only one way out - to cut off Odessa from Ukraine. And as soon as possible.

[Revolver]

There is a better way out - to cut off country 404 from the sea. Let them dig something new.

[Stas157]

Quote: Nagan

There is a better way out - to cut off country 404 from the sea.

Well, for this you need to take Odessa.

[Comrade]

Anti-ship missiles are considered as a means of countering the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

Why do they need "Harpoons" if there are "Neptunes"?
Listen to Ukrainian propaganda, there are no better missiles in the world. Of the latest fakes - the alleged hit of "Neptune" in "Admiral Makarov".
But if everything is so good, why are they asking NATO countries for anti-ship missiles?

[Toucan]

Quote: Comrade

Listen to Ukrainian propaganda, there are no better missiles in the world.

Do you listen to Ukrainian propaganda?

Quote: Comrade

But if everything is so good, why are they asking NATO countries for anti-ship missiles?

If Ukraine had limited opportunities to produce anti-ship missiles, now they do not. The Luch enterprise was destroyed by Russian missile strikes.

[alex neym_2]

It’s good to have one’s own, but it must be produced, and someone else’s is “tastier”, but it must be bought ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Comrade

Anti-ship missiles are considered as a means of countering the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

Why do they need "Harpoons" if there are "Neptunes"?
Listen to Ukrainian propaganda, there are no better missiles in the world. Of the latest fakes - the alleged hit of "Neptune" in "Admiral Makarov".
But if everything is so good, why are they asking NATO countries for anti-ship missiles?

If you are interested in military topics, you should have read the news that by May 2022, Ukraine planned to produce the required number of missiles and launchers to form the first Neptune DBK battery.
Accordingly, all that they could probably do was no more than 3-4 missiles and 1-2 mobile launchers.
After the KR was hit, Moscow - the production site for the Neptunes - was destroyed.
Accordingly, Ukraine now has no more than 2 Neptune missiles in the remnants.
therefore, they ask for any anti-ship missiles.

[tlauicol]

Everything is fine, we can destroy weapons at any moment! Let them deliver. And so in every article

[Graz]

the stick is always double-edged, after all, we can also deliver something to someone and drown not a cruiser, for example, but their gas carrier and not one

[tlauicol]

Quote: Graz

the stick is always double-edged, after all, we can also deliver something to someone and drown not a cruiser, for example, but their gas carrier and not one

No we can not. Double edged stick

[Proctologist]

important signs of all articles of the "hatted" series:
firstly, we can easily destroy it,
secondly, this weapon is completely useless (any, moreover).

[riwas]

Harpoon and NSM missiles for Ukraine. Unresolved issues and doubtful prospects

The option of passage of the NATO fleet to the Black Sea to directly counteract our ships is also being considered.
For us, there would be an optimal cardinal option - the liberation of the entire Black Sea coast, but we must first liberate the Donbass.

[Jose]

Direct opposition to our ships would be an act of war. That is a nuclear war.

[Ka-52]

The option of passage of the NATO fleet to the Black Sea to directly counteract our ships is also being considered.

no need to rebroadcast other people's nonsense. No NATO fleet will enter the Black Sea just like that, and even more so, it will not directly oppose the ships or the ground grouping of the Russian Federation.

[Negro]

The option of passage of the NATO fleet to the Black Sea to directly counteract our ships is also being considered.

Why the hell does the NATO fleet need to climb into the open sea? If there is a decision, aviation will sort it out in half a day. And not only with the fleet, but also with coastal units. including Novorossiysk.

[max702]

He won’t figure it out in half a day, because in 20-30 minutes there will be nowhere to land ..

[Negro]

Will you tug at the armagedulka again?

If you haven't noticed, at the official level there is a decision to somehow roll back from the armagedulka and focus on small gas dirty tricks. Otherwise, the hour before a preventive strike can be negotiated. It is in the publications of VO that the Minutemen have rotted long ago, but in fact, as it were, it did not turn out the other way around.

[Soldatov V.]

How many Harpoons can Norway or anyone else supply to Ukraine from their bounties? And how dangerous are missiles for the Black Sea Fleet? Maybe again the Americans will use electronic warfare and direct missiles at our next Black Sea Fleet frigate. And it’s not easier to warn potential suppliers that in the event of the destruction of our ships, it will strike retaliation against their territory. And don't be shy about talking to our Foreign Ministry about it.

[svoroponov]

Carry out dense mining of the water area by our minelayers in the areas of approach to Odessa and Nikolaev. The fleet should not be kept there, perhaps aviation and submarines will be enough, in extreme cases, speedboats. And no one will go there from civilian courts to export something. There, already one civilian ship from Estonia was blown up by a Ukrainian minelaying at the beginning of the operation. Others won't even flinch. There, even ours offered to leave the Turks, but they did not want to complete the trawling of the water area in the port area to neutral waters and further escort by minesweepers to the Bosphorus. Life is more precious.
The Pentagon also has not yet decided at this stage to introduce warships there.

[Andy_nsk]

The Pentagon also has not yet decided at this stage to introduce warships there.

Who would let the Pentagon ships into the World Cup. Turkey unequivocally announced the closure of the straits for all warships of non-Black Sea countries. Russian ships will miss, but only those assigned to the ports of the World Cup.

[bayard]

Quote: V.

And it’s not easier to warn potential suppliers that in the event of the destruction of our ships, it will strike retaliation against their territory.

And what will they get from such warnings?
The Supreme High Command has already warned several times "Just try to intervene ... we will show you THIS ...", if the shelling of the territory of the Russian Federation continues, then the decision-making centers will be attacked" ... So what?
There is nothing worse than unfulfilled threats.
The issue can only be resolved (!) by a land operation to liberate the Odessa and Nikolaev regions. And look for a needle in a haystack, when there are pins, and knitting needles, and nails ... so many - in this haystack ...
But for such an operation only in this direction (the southern Right Bank) a minimum of 100-150 thousandth grouping will be needed.
There is a possibility ?
"Trishkin caftan" is not to be offered to groups in Kharkov, Donetsk, Luhansk and Zaporozhye regions, and so there will be enough work until the end of the year ... At such a pace.
And solve the problem NECESSARY!

[Soldatov V.]

I agree with you. We do not want the outbreak of a world war. Yes, we scare, but we do not go further than threats, and NATO takes this as weakness. Although, to fulfill the threat, they could destroy the radar station on the border of Norway and Russia, which is watching the Northern Fleet.
I (personal opinion) see the issue in the liberation of the Odessa and Nikolaev regions in the absence of a Commander like Suvorov, Vatutin, Vasilevsky, Zhukov, Chernyakhovsky. We need a plan, thought out, calculated to the smallest detail.
It may be necessary to increase tension in the Black Sea, lay mines near the Bosphorus, and near the ports of Bulgaria and Romania. But in Odessa and Nikolaev, on the contrary, clear the fairways for their landings. A trip to Odessa should be started from the mouth of the Danube with access to Transnistria to ammunition depots and from there go north and east. This is of course my amateurish opinion.

[bayard]

The minus is not mine, but as I understand the minuser ...
You suggested this here ... that it’s easier to just inflict a preventive strike on the sponsors and curators of this disgusting than to beg for yourself like that.
No one was going to storm Odessa in the forehead with a landing force. But they created tension, looming on the horizon with landing ships. This is so that forces from Odessa are not transferred to other theaters of operations. And if there will be a landing, then on the right side of the Dniester, closer to the Romanian border - further from the artillery and MLRS of the Odessa group. And from there to develop offensives from the coastal direction.
But the main blows should be from land - through and bypassing Nikolaev. With the setting up of barriers in the direction of Krivoy Rog and Vinnitsa, leaving at the same time one grouping on the northern face of Transnistria, the other directly on Odessa, cutting it off from Moldova and Romania.
After that, give the choice to the Nazis of the Odessa garrison - either it will be like in Mariupol, or like in Kherson.
Perhaps by that time Nikolaev will also become an instructive example.
In case of the wrong choice of the Nazis, you should not be too embarrassed and restrained by thoughts and destruction of the "beautiful city" ... The city can be rebuilt more beautifully than before, but the Nazis need to be wiped out to zero, like cockroaches - so as not to breed again.
Such an operation will require a lot of forces and means, it is not worth delaying it. The sooner we start, the sooner we will finish, having solved all the problems with the security of the Black Sea Fleet, the danger to navigation from Odessa "sowers of mines" and ... the problem of food security for the World Community.
At a good price, but not to the detriment of the population.

Then it is necessary to deal with Western Ukraine, cutting off the supply routes of the Nazis to Europe - from Belarus to the south with the cleansing of the hotbed of the Bandera spirit.

And the Middle Dnieper region is best left "for sweets" - there are cities with a million inhabitants, hydroelectric dams, nuclear power plants, bridges across the Dnieper ... They need to be digested - for dessert.

I think so .

[Soldatov V.]

Good plan. I thought, maybe I'm wrong, SALT follows the mentality of the FSB and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Trade. Some sort of intrigues to reshuffle commanders, some kind of incomprehensible troop movements, some incomprehensible negotiations with the enemy, deliveries of strategic raw materials across the front line. We supply oil to Poland and that gasoline from it supplies to Ukraine.
Who is in principle responsible for the SVO? Who is Kutuzov, Zhukov.
If the Supreme, then why not form like Comrade Stalin? What are these meetings on TV with ministers and heads of regions broadcast throughout the country?
Why are there no landings for non-fulfillment of plans that do not cope with their duties?

[Revolver]

Quote: V.

Why are there no landings for non-fulfillment of plans that do not cope with their duties?

Because Stalin, alas, cannot be raised from the dead.

[bayard]

Quote: V.

Who is in principle responsible for the SVO?

The one who announced it is the Supreme High Command, aka PR, aka GDP.

Quote: V.

What are these meetings on TV with ministers and heads of regions broadcast throughout the country?

PR!

Quote: V.

Why are there no landings for non-fulfillment of plans that do not cope with their duties?

They don’t abandon their own - we don’t have socialism. Not for that they "jumped on the Maidan" in 1991.
Well, there is no personal responsibility in the Russian Federation. And they plant only those who violate internal corporate rules.
But... Hope dies last. The very course of events forces us to take the right measures ... otherwise they will die.

[3danimal]

The city can be rebuilt more beautifully than before

Who will build it and with whose money?

which is easier just to deliver a preventive blow to the sponsors and curators of this disgusting

Are you talking about the USA? Great idea, it's high time to start fighting directly with the US Armed Forces. There is only one division in Poland, we have one left (we must believe in this).

[bayard]

Quote: 3danimal

Who will build it and with whose money?

Prisoners of war of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, like the German ones after 1945
"Do you remember the captured fascists?
Wehrmacht destroyed - Wehrmacht system."

Quote: 3danimal

Are you talking about the USA? Great idea, it's high time to start fighting directly with the US Armed Forces

"Fight"?
No, I'm talking about the simultaneous destruction of the causes of chaos and disorder on this cozy planet.

Quote: 3danimal

There is only one division in Poland,

No, a little more, the mobilization was carried out in anticipation of the "return of the Eastern crosses". Are you their fan?

We have enough Armed Forces of fraternal Belarus for Poland with some (small) reinforcement from the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation

Quote: 3danimal

we have her one left (you have to believe in it)

Well, really, see for yourself - in the "second phase of the operation" we almost without leaving the spot, with a hundred BTGs (plus or minus), we ground a large (and better) part of the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And a bunch of Volkssturm sent by him to reinforce.
- Why not leaving the place?
- And not to chase them through the territory of the largest country in Europe.
And this is when a 100 thousandth group is fighting against our 700 thousand (plus or minus). And together with the losses already incurred (killed, wounded, prisoners), the total number ... about a million (up to 300 thousand killed and wounded).
And you tell me about some ... 160 thousand mobilized Poles.
Forgot whose city was Warsaw?
Russian.
And will be .
For Poland is SCREAMING about a new partition.
I think the GDR will also not mind.

[3danimal]

Wehrmacht destroyed - Wehrmacht system."

Here it is somewhat different: we will destroy. To paraphrase: "Russian destroyed, h..hol - system."
But whose money?

No, more sensitive, mobilization

I'm talking about the US division in Poland.

Are you their fan?

What is your desire to hang a label?

We have enough Armed Forces of fraternal Belarus for Poland with some (small) reinforcement from the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation

How many days? 3,7?
And how far? Chicherina now proposes to advance to the Atlantic.

Forgot whose city was Warsaw?
Russian.
And will be .
For Poland is SCREAMING about a new partition.
I think the GDR will also not mind.

Do you have similar views with this lady?
To fight with Germany and Poland, the entire structure of NATO?
I remember: the majority of the inhabitants of Germany and Austria-Hungary, on the eve of the defeat in the First World War, believed that the victory had almost been achieved.
Do you seriously think that our 100 thousand "terminators" (with Bao Feng walkie-talkies) will "roll out" the whole of Europe together with the US military?
I suggested more modestly: to strike at warehouses in Poland, as an option - at that US division (to see, so to speak, what they are good for).
Excessive greed (and even in the heat of militarism) is useless.

[bayard]

Quote: 3danimal

: "Russian destroyed, h..hol - system."

Have you heard the stories of the inhabitants of Mariupol? Who destroyed their houses?
Who was hiding behind them?
Who is hiding behind the backs of civilians now?
Who destroyed Donbass for 8 years?
Who plunged a prosperous and quite decent country into this chaos since the beginning of 2014?
These are the ones who will build / restore.
Atone for guilt and make amends for the damage they have caused.

Quote: 3danimal

What is your desire to hang a label?

You have labeled yourself, but it is your choice.

Quote: 3danimal

We have enough Armed Forces of fraternal Belarus for Poland with some (small) reinforcement from the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation

How many days? 3,7?
And how far? Chicherina now proposes to advance to the Atlantic.

They will bring troops into / on, we'll see, we're not in a hurry.
And to the Atlantic, you have to VERY ask for it.

Quote: 3danimal

Do you have similar views with this lady?

She is an artist - that's how she sees it. But in general, he sees correctly.
Like an artist.

Quote: 3danimal

To fight with Germany and Poland, the entire structure of NATO?

If they insist on it.
And why are you talking about Germany?
I'm on the contrary to them - I propose to return part of their territories, which Comrade Stalin presented to Poland in 1945.
And to yourself - to return yours.
And not so much because of the fact that you really want it, but for the sake of peace and order.
So that the Gehenna of Europe does not spoil under the door, does not covet someone else's.

Quote: 3danimal

I remember: the majority of the inhabitants of Germany and Austria-Hungary, on the eve of the defeat in the First World War, believed that the victory had almost been achieved.

Here, in Kuev, they believe that they have almost won - Zelensky and Arestovich will not let you lie.

Quote: 3danimal

Do you seriously think that our 100 thousand "terminators" (with Bao Feng walkie-talkies) will "roll out" the whole of Europe together with the US military?

Are you taking mind-expanding drugs?
Be careful with them.
We do not need to roll Europe with "Terminators".
But you can glaze.
If they insist.
At the so-called. There is no "state" of Ukraine at all. Do you know about it?
Legally, they have no territory.
For the demarcation of the borders was not carried out.
And the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR / RI. So this pseudo-state is located on the Russian Land. On the property of the Russian State.
So Russia is in its legal rights.
But the Kyiv Junta - no.
Impostors, terrorists and usurpers.
So everything is done right.

Quote: 3danimal

I suggested more modestly: to strike at warehouses in Poland, as an option - at that US division (to see, so to speak, what they are good for).

Every meal must be served on time. If now the troops of the Russian Federation were near Kyiv, then such a blow could be justified. But now they are in the Donbass and the Lower Dnieper.
The turn will reach Poland. In the meantime, the war (which is a special operation) dictates its own laws and schedules.
And why hit the American base (after all, they didn’t hit ours)?
It is better to hit Galicia - from Belarus to the south along the border. And cut off all supply lines.
What is more important to us - checkers or to go?
I propose to go, that is, to solve our problems in the most convenient way for us, and the least expensive method.
Do you want to take revenge on the USA?
And we are already taking revenge. But in other ways.
Now their entire financial system is cracking and collapsing, there is a shortage of goods in the country ... there is NO baby milk (!!!), prices for gasoline and diesel have flown into space, the Arabs are withdrawing money from the FRS (!) ... and agreed with the Russian Federation (Arabs) about FURTHER REDUCTION OF OIL PRODUCTION.
Look how they are twisted by their own dope ... and you offer them an easy and familiar way out?
No, let them enjoy.

You look at what Bidon was brought to ... they refuse to talk to him on the phone, then they force him to apologize / justify what he said - about the intention to fight China ... . And after all, it was not China that forced him to apologize, although he immediately stood up, but ... Japan.
The RF is now behaving like that bull, which is very slowly going down the hill ... to the astonished herd. So why rush?
Enjoy the moment.

[3danimal]

But you can glaze

Somehow you really want to kill me and my children
In response, it will fly. Or "us for what"?
The second point: if the Russian Federation and the United States come to an agreement, then they can jointly turn the entire territory of France into a zone of continuous and medium destruction.
So the reasoning about “we will destroy life on Earth”, fortunately, is untenable. IMHO, even the complete disappearance of man as a species is not worth the abolition of the existence of the planet.
Perhaps one day it will have a less aggressive and silly sentient look.

Now their entire financial system is cracking and collapsing, there is a shortage of goods in the country

First of all - don't care. What matters is what happens to our economy.
The second point is whether these "catastrophic" news are analogous to the victory of the North Korean team in the World Cup, or the sending of gum by the same rich state. assistance to the starving in the United States (according to local TV, which cannot be distrusted ).
You can trust numbers, not emotional assessments. Our pre-war share in world GDP is 1,7%, the share of the United States and those who have joined is 60%. So, if we fall by 30%, they are less than one (on average, someone more than someone less).

[bayard]

Quote: 3danimal

Somehow you really want to kill me and my children

What are you, I am a very peaceful person, but not me and not We have chosen the path of war - we live in the world that exists, and the "masters of this world" want to eat us.
I'm against it .
And with the idea that "Why do we need this world if there is no Russia in it," I agree.
It just so happened that for the last 8 years of my life I have been living in a war, it is practically outside my window - I hear artillery duels regularly. And this sets a certain vector of understanding of the world. It's just that the war is closer to me.
And you have not yet realized that the war has already come into our lives seriously and for a long time. But it will come soon.

Quote: 3danimal

So the reasoning about “we will destroy life on Earth”, fortunately, is untenable.

That's right - the nuclear warhead, it's just a PSU of especially high power. And today there are an order of magnitude fewer of them in the world than it was 30 years ago, and in terms of their combined power - by two orders of magnitude. Here in the 80s - YES, the whole world into dust was quite real.

Quote: 3danimal

spit. What matters is what happens to our economy.

And interesting things are happening in our economy. Somehow casually and almost imperceptibly, the message passed that a decision was made to make our economy more monetized to 70%, and then to the "universal" norm - 95 - 100%. And this is very serious. This can and should ensure a long period of growth of our economy of the order of 7% (or even 10%) per year. As already happened in the period from 2005 to 2014, when monetization in the country was raised from a monstrous 4% to 40%.
Remember that period?
When the average level of well-being of citizens (wages and income of entrepreneurs) grew at a faster pace, about 10% per year. These are the statistics of that period. It was then that the citizens of Russia once again got used to living well.
This will be both a tangible and constant growth in the circulating money supply. And against the backdrop of a stronger ruble, this can and should produce a synergistic effect.
And this is without taking into account the fact that world prices for literally ALL categories of Russian export goods have grown over the past year (and continue to grow) AT TIMES. Gas, oil (to a lesser extent), metals, grain, etc., food, coal, minerals ... This alone, without taking into account domonetization, can give a huge increase in export earnings.
Have we been sanctioned?
So much the worse for Europe and the USA. And they themselves have already seen this. They have already become very ill. Just read their periodicals or listen to our compatriots living in these countries, many of them keep their blogs in Russian, it's available.
Have we lost the European markets and the US market ?
Well, we don’t have such a big trade with the USA to grieve about, especially since our exports to the USA are critically important for them, and we ... we will find and are already finding other markets.
Europe abandoned our coal?
As soon as India found out about this, it immediately contracted all the volumes destined for Europe. And he also asks ... For the prospect of developing our Yakut deposits.
Europe wants to abandon our gas?
Firstly, this is unrealistic, and because of her unrealistic ambitions, she is already paying 5-6 times more for our gas than before ... and it's not autumn yet.
And our LNG will be gladly bought by India Southeast Asia and Latin America.
And amazing things are happening in the Arab world - Saudi Arabia agreed with the Russian Federation (literally the other day) on a FURTHER REDUCTION OF OIL PRODUCTION! And this is in response to US requests to increase these volumes.
And India and China are buying back all of its volumes, freed from us from deliveries to Europe.
And more about the war. Not so long ago, a Fatwa was issued - to the entire Muslim World. About the fact that now the period of the last battle of the world Evil with Good has come. And therefore, ALL Muslims of the world are ordered to FIGHT ON THE SIDE OF RUSSIA.
This is not a joke or hyperbole.
And it was from here that the "Muslims for Russia" movement, which is gaining momentum, began ... This is a military volunteer movement.
For today, in the eyes of all Muslims, it is Russia that is the last stronghold of the fight against World Evil.
And the evil in the Fatwa is called ... Ukraine and all the countries that support and supervise it.
Really interesting?

Quote: 3danimal

You can trust numbers, not emotional assessments. Our pre-war share in world GDP is 1,7%

Well, how do you count. If at face value, yes in dollars, then yes, it's sad.
And if according to PPS?
And in PPP it is already 4% at once.
Already more fun, but it's in dollars.
And if you remember HOW MUCH the ruble has strengthened in recent days?
At the last auction ... how much ?
58 per dollar.
And before the war?
It's just that if the ruble has strengthened 1,5 times, then even in denomination and in dollars the same our economy, then 1,7 must be multiplied by 1,5.
And if also in the teaching staff?
And if we also take into account the current inflation, which is projected at 1,2 - 1,8% for the whole of this year, and in the USA and Europe this figure is already double-digit? In projections , based on inflation for the first months of this year . But the forecasts for our opponents may turn out to be too optimistic...
You see, an economy of 1,7% cannot be a monopoly in a whole range of highly scarce export goods.
First place in the export of grain (25% of the market).
Second in oil exports.
The first in the export of gas.
Coal.
aluminum.
Black metals .
A range of rare earths.
A literal monopolist in neon and microchip substrates.
On nuclear fuel and fuel assemblies.
By Aviation Titanium.
... And if we consider that all or most of the former Ukraine will soon return to Russia?
Add the first and third place in the world in terms of grain exports ... what will happen?
What about vegetable oil?
What about the export of ferrous metals?

Do you understand that all these factors need to be at least plused?
And as an optimum - take into account synergy.
Under such conditions, even the most stupid government will not miss its chance ... And in our country, although it is not ideal, it is not stupid.

And I also forgot that with the transfer of payment for rubles, such a concept as the quiet glanders began to be forgotten ... The "Budget Rule" is the "holy of holies" of domestic colonial dependence ... The law on the obligatory and rigorous Tribute of the Russian Federation to world banksters .
And this noose seems to have also been removed from the neck of the economy ...

So what will happen to these "60%" if they are unfastened from our resources?
With these economies of makeup artists and dog groomers?
And with them ALREADY - it's coming ...
What will happen to their crops without our fertilizers?
Are there factories of such fertilizers in Europe?
And because of the latest gas prices, they are all stopped.
What will happen to their aviation industry without our aviation titanium and aluminum?
But they also had a snack with China ... they even threaten it with a war.
It was possible to mock us one by one. But now, when we are in the same boat - the first economy of the world (INDUSTRIAL economy) and the first energy \ resource \ and military economy ... and with us the whole Arab world with their oil and money ... when the military volunteer movement "Muslims for Russia" overshadowed by the Fatwa is also in our boat ... When India and Latin America are also - gently, carefully, but with us. Not with them...
What kind of "60%" can we talk about?
These are no longer "world leaders", but world bankrupts.

[3danimal]

and the "masters of this world" want to eat us.

Nobody wanted to eat me: neither in the 90s, nor in the 00s, nor now.
No one attacks countries that possess nuclear weapons.

And with the idea that "Why do we need this world if there is no Russia in it," I agree.

In the event of a nuclear war, the world of people will be completely preserved.
For example, in South America nothing will bang at all.

It just so happened that for the last 8 years of my life I have been living in a war, it is practically outside my window - I hear artillery duels regularly.

So are you from LDNR? And I was born and have always lived in the USSR/RF. Lived well, by the way. Before your Ukrainian showdowns in 2014 and before the outbreak of the war.
Did you have problems and you wanted to bring them into the life of Russians? Congratulations, your dreams have come true

And you have not yet realized that the war has already come into our lives seriously and for a long time. But it will come soon.

Take the war you adore into your body, but deeper. Good luck.

norms - 95 - 100%. And this is very serious. This can and should ensure a long period of growth of our economy of the order of 7% (or even 10%) per year.

Kudrin and Nabiullina will not agree with you in their forecasts.
What about aircraft parts? Cannibalism, but then what?
Auto parts have increased in price by 2-3 times, but not salaries.

This can and should ensure a long period of growth of our economy of the order of 7% (or even 10%) per year. As already happened in the period from 2005 to 2014, when monetization in the country was raised from a monstrous 4% to 40%.
Remember that period?

It looks like the work of marginal economists, like Khazin.
I read it in the 00s. He kept promising the collapse of the dollar and the US economy soon.
Since then, however, it has grown, there were companies like Tesla with a trillion-dollar capitalization.
Yandex and a number of other IT companies had great chances to become global companies. But for now, they will probably remain regional.

So much the worse for Europe and the USA. And they themselves have already seen this. They have already become very ill.

Gasoline has risen in price by 1,5 times? They spent a little on fuel as a percentage of the average salary. And these are just minor inconveniences, in comparison with us.
Ask about car prices: in the US, Mazda is almost half the price now than in the Russian Federation.

Europe abandoned our coal?
As soon as India found out about this, it immediately contracted all the volumes destined for Europe. And asks for more

Asks for a 30% discount (the biggest in the world). And even so, now a huge amount of our, for example, oil floats in tankers due to marketing problems.

And our LNG will be gladly bought by India Southeast Asia and Latin America.

There are no capacities for liquefying such gas.
Everything was focused primarily on Europe, pipeline gas.
The terminal for gas liquefaction, which is still under construction, has a maximum capacity of 38 billion cubic meters per year, the Power of Siberia - 10.
180 billion cubic meters were delivered to Europe last year.
New pipelines and terminals will be built over 10 years (in conditions of constantly updated and intensifying sanctions, when all loopholes are “caulked” in real time).

Fatwa issued - to the entire Muslim World. About the fact that now the period of the last battle of the world Evil with Good has come.

Where do you find something like this?
Many people wrote something, addressed to the same Israel. Empty.

And if according to PPS?
And in PPP it is already 4% at once.

IMHO, GDP PPP - in many ways, shenanigans with numbers. For example, in the Russian Federation, the EU and India, Hyundai Solaris cost about the same money in $ / €. But when calculating the PPP for the EU, it was Solaris that was taken, and for India, a locally produced bucket with nuts on wheels. There are negligibly cheap services, they will cut your hair 10+ times cheaper than in the EU or the Russian Federation. Etc.
But all imports, often critical ones, come at the same prices.
As a result, China, with a budget of $ 2,5 trillion, can buy many more German scanners than India with a budget of $ 300 billion, with +/- the same population.
In my opinion, GDP per capita (not PPP) and comparison of countries' budgets are more informative.

By Aviation Titanium.

From which the same Boeing refused at the beginning of the war.

So what will happen to these "60%" if they are unfastened from our resources?

They will sink up to 5-10% in a few years, then they will begin to recover. Rebuild. They have technology first of all, and not makeup artists and hairdressers.

What will happen to their crops without our fertilizers?

What will happen to our seedless grains (60+% dependency) potatoes (90% dependency)? The remaining stocks will quickly degenerate, yields will fall by 1,5-2 times.
Shall we create our own? It's decades of work.

What will happen to their aviation industry without our aviation titanium and aluminum?

What will my family and I fly on vacation without Airbus and Boeing spare parts in a year or two? And how safe will it be?
Boeing suspiciously easily abandoned titanium, maybe they have backup sources?
And most importantly - technology, modern production lines.

But now, when we are in the same boat - the world's first economy (INDUSTRIAL economy) and the first energy \ resource \

Would you like to see China as an ally?
Their companies de facto joined the sanctions. Huawei does not enter into new contracts. Let me remind you that their largest sales markets are the USA and the EU. Even Chinese goods are transported by sea to European ports, and then a small part is shipped for us. Small, you know?
Are we Russians going to suddenly get rich and start consuming more?
The same Haval tritely raised prices, and being a monopolist, their models will turn into cars for the rich

[bayard]

Quote: 3danimal

Nobody wanted to eat me: neither in the 90s, nor in the 00s

What a score . Or they weren't appetizing enough.
And I have seen enough of those who did not disdain.

Quote: 3danimal

No one attacks countries that possess nuclear weapons.

What do you consider an attack?
Was the USSR attacked?
Or "themselves"?
"Hurrah, you don't need a knife
You'll give him a little podoesh
And do with it
WHAT YOU WANT."
Such a blue sky.

Quote: 3danimal

In the event of a nuclear war, the world of people will be completely preserved.
For example, in South America nothing will bang at all.

That's right.
But the "Whole World" considers itself exclusively the West. But in the event of a conflict, it will definitely not remain.
And it's not about rockets.

Quote: 3danimal

So are you from LDNR?

The last 8 years - Donetsk.

Quote: 3danimal

And I was born and have always lived in the USSR/RF.

And I was born in the Urals.
He graduated from school with the Ukrainian SSR.
He received his military education in the Baltic states.
And he served in the Caucasus.
My homeland is the Soviet Union.

Quote: 3danimal

Lived well, by the way. Before your Ukrainian showdowns in 2014

And I lived quite well.
Only the showdowns in / on were not about "Ukraine".
But exclusively about and for the sake of Russia. And Sumeria is just a tool.

Quote: 3danimal

Did you have problems and you wanted to bring them into the life of Russians? Congratulations, your dreams have come true

No, for the sake of our problems the Kremlin would not lift a finger. Problems directly crept into "Russia" (actually the Russian Federation), and even then I had to reluctantly get upset.
And willy-nilly, begin to take some kind of adequate measures.
If they could not react, they would not raise an eyebrow.

Quote: 3danimal

Take the war you adore into your body, but deeper. Good luck.

No, this is YOUR war now.
And exclusively for your jambs - something that could be solved once or twice in 2014, today only through blood, sweat and full exertion of strength.
There is always a price to be paid for showing weakness.

Quote: 3danimal

Kudrin and Nabiullina will not agree with you in their forecasts.

They disagree with many things, so others will do it.
Although ... in the period from 2005 to 2014. it seems like they were wondering at the posts ... No?

Quote: 3danimal

What about aircraft parts? Cannibalism, but then what?

And then the MS-21, Tu-214 and SSJ-100 will fly in domestic configuration.
In the meantime, fly on Turkish airlines.
They will transfer.

Quote: 3danimal

It looks like the work of marginal economists, like Khazin.

You should not call Mikhail a marginal, and the fact that he has not been in the clip for a long time was his choice.
By the way, I also have something to remember - in the summer of 1992, it was my program that made it possible to avoid a collapse in the oil industry. And then Gazprom introduced it at home, though in a pirated way, but I'm not offended - it still came in on behalf of another person I respected very much, he then headed the brainstorming group at the ministry and this task was assigned to his group.
And in NTTM they called me "a very smart guy in macroeconomics."
But it was a long time ago.
And I also had a chance to vote for the creation of the Sharapov Russian Economic Society.
In your opinion, they are also marginalized, but there is a real understanding of the economy ... and not Economics.

Quote: 3danimal

Yandex and a number of other IT companies had great chances to become global companies. But for now, they will probably remain regional.

How to know, how to know. After a big redistribution, anything can happen. And the redistribution has already begun.

Quote: 3danimal

Gasoline has risen in price by 1,5 times?

Is it?
Well, this is definitely not the limit.
What about gas?
Electricity?
Heating ?
Transport ?
Products of energy-intensive industries.
You are looking at a complex picture, otherwise you are all separate pebbles in a mosaic.

Quote: 3danimal

The terminal for liquefaction of gas, which is still under construction, has a maximum capacity of 38 billion cubic meters per year,

This is not the last terminal under construction, there will be many more. For it is more convenient and profitable to transport gas carriers, but from those fields there is no other way.
And Yakut coals are just beginning to be developed, and they already have promising orders through the roof.

Quote: 3danimal

180 billion cubic meters were delivered to Europe last year.
New pipelines and terminals will be built over 10 years

Europe has nowhere else to get gas. Will take with a surcharge through Turkey. And by the autumn he will howl and go to confession.

Quote: 3danimal

IMHO, GDP PPP - in many ways, shenanigans with numbers.

E no. This is just a more or less sound methodology that allows you to really assess the economy. And it was not intended by us, but exactly by those very banksters and their international structures.
And what is sadness about?
Will we sell less gas? (not a fact - in Europe the storages are empty)
At 30%? (let's say)
But 5-6 times more expensive than before.
As a result, with 30% lower costs, we will receive 4 times more money.
And in rubles.
Which one way or another will join the economy as credit or investment resources, as social programs and infrastructure projects ... And they will continue to rotate in their native economy, reviving it and ensuring growth.
Previously, all profits were withdrawn abroad and worked for other people's economies or were sterilized in "reserve funds".

Quote: 3danimal

In my opinion, GDP per capita (not PPP) and comparison of countries' budgets are more informative.

And this is also an important indicator. But it must also be calculated according to PPP.
For the purchasing power of the currency in different countries is different.
Different cost of electricity and automobile fuel, different cost of "eating" (the same "Big Mac coefficient"), different cost of utilities, medical care, transport, intrinsic cost of raw materials ...
Russia, of course, is not a leader here, but there is a very good potential, which in crisis conditions (and we have a crisis, and even a global one) can be used.
An example of what methods?
Yes, VAT reduction. For several years, 2-3 times.
And it is better to cancel altogether over time.
And the economy will take off.
- And what about filling the budget?
- Fine . We already have a chronically surplus, and with the new prices for our exports, it will completely choke on money.
Need an upswing and growth of the economy?
Do you need to make investments work, and the payback has decreased?
Is it necessary that goods of a large redistribution become competitive in foreign markets?
Reduce VAT and discount rate.
To the minimum.
And the economy will take off.
Need technology?
Copy ! Duplicate! Throw in the rules established by someone, and so no one, except us, observes them.
We just have to do whatever we need to do.
Does the WTO interfere?
Get out of it. For all the countries of the West have already violated his rules.

[3danimal]

No, I'm talking about the simultaneous destruction of the causes of chaos and disorder on this cozy planet.

Missed this pearl
Doesn't this mean "one-time destruction" of me, you, the majority of Russians at least?
Missiles fly for half an hour, what will stop the other side from launching all silo ICCBMs, in parallel with the transfer of commands to SSBNs and the rise of strategic aviation?
Let me also remind you of the existence of a strategic missile defense system capable of intercepting some (even so) of our missiles.
Irresponsible fantasies.

[bayard]

Quote: 3danimal

Doesn't this mean "one-time destruction" of me, you, the majority of Russians at least?

And I'm not talking about rockets at all.
All our missiles can safely remain in the mines. Or at worst, some of them can be used to destroy their most splintery bases.
And for the USA , England and Western Europe there are other means .
Radical.
With wet cleaning.
But not with "super torpedoes", as journalists frolic.

[3danimal]

there are other means.
Radical.
With wet cleaning.
But not with "super torpedoes", as journalists frolic.

So you believe in the wunderwaffe?
The use of which will not be answered by their nuclear weapons?

[bayard]

Quote: 3danimal

So you believe in the wunderwaffe?

Faith is a religious area.

[Ka-52]

And it’s not easier to warn potential suppliers that in the event of the destruction of our ships, it will strike retaliation against their territory. And don't be shy about talking to our Foreign Ministry about it.

For threats to work, at least some of them must be implemented. We will not make any strike of "retribution" on the territory of Denmark. Until an armed conflict arises between the forces of the NATO bloc and the Russian Federation. But that, as they say, is another story.

[3danimal]

It's high time: a strike on warehouses in Poland, and even better, on the US division located there (like - let them sweep out).

[Negro]

Quote: V.

in the event of the destruction of our ships, it will strike retaliation against their territory. And don't be shy about talking to our Foreign Ministry about it.

You see, the role of the clown with the atomic bomb is already taken by Kim. He may be offended - and it is dangerous to offend militarily stronger countries. If Kim opens a second front, there is nothing stupid to fight with him, this is not Zelensky for you.

[Sergey Kuzmin]

and the Harpoon RCC does not actually have a suitable land-based launcher

and then they will begin to be offended that after they deliver their missiles to the Ukronazis, it suddenly happens that their own ship will be hit by their own missile ... And the one who delivered these missiles to the Ukronazis will be to blame ...

[Jose]

For surface ships, this is a threat. But if they want to break through the blockade of Odessa in order to export grain, then this is a fixed idea. Because anti-ship missiles are useless against aircraft and submarines.

[sawic1]

It seems like the United States wanted to restore order in Somalia, it is necessary that in which case the local guys on inflatable boats have interesting complexes against our partners)

[Revolver]

Local guys on inflatable boats even managed to bring the AKM to an inoperable state. Where are they "interesting complexes"?

[Negro]

Quote: sawic1

It seems like the United States wanted to restore order in Somalia

After the UN with the Americans (and, by the way, with the participation of the Russian Navy) staged an extremely expensive farce there, everyone abruptly turned off the sound and crawled away. After that, the UAE drove up with PMCs and quietly and efficiently put things in order. 10 years about Somali pirates nothing is heard.

[Gunther]

It is necessary to improve our MTRs, the special forces of the Navy, Denmark supplied weapons to the pans - its frigate ran into a WWII mine (optionally - somehow swollen with a banderlodge), by accident.
An attempt on the forces of Light who went over to the side of the Forces of Light - the head of Nikolaev, the fascist kim, died of a volvulus of the intestines, there must always be an answer.

[Negro]

It's amazing, but even Kirill Ryabov shows the correct time twice a day.

Naturally, for Ukraine, having RCC is better than not having RCC. The anti-ship missiles will finish their fantasies about the landing - but the landing would initially be a great success for Ukraine with the minimum adequate work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. However, if we are talking about starving blacks in Africa, then neither anti-ship missiles, nor even the complete demilitarization of the Black Sea by NATO forces, will solve the problem - the threat to the ships of the Black Sea Fleet is far from equal to the resumption of trade traffic, even Tu-95 from the Amur region can stop the work of ports. A political decision is required.

[Zaurbek]

It seems to me that the Russian Federation itself is to blame ...... such an island country as Denmark, a great maritime power ... Its logistics companies go and work all over the world, and, among other things, refuse to transport goods to the Russian Federation .... I think that we need to think about and announce some kind of responsibility for the supply of weapons against us ..... and tie it up in the heads of such countries - put such a serious weapon - came under attack.
A container ship will not reach its destination a couple of times and the leadership of Denmark or Sweden will think about neutrality ....

[Negro]

Quote: Zaurbek

A container ship will not reach its destination a couple of times and the leadership of Denmark or Sweden will think about neutrality ....

This will skyrocket shipping rates and deal a huge blow to globalization - especially to China. After such antics, the most reasonable and cheapest solution would be a complete naval blockade of the Russian Federation.

[Zaurbek]

Well, if you shoot from Admiral Kuznetsov ..... then yes. And if you also sell anti-ship missiles in Somalia or Yemen .... to the rebels ?!

[Negro]

There is nothing to catch in Somalia, but Yemen already has anti-ship missiles. And there is even an BRMD. No one is stupid, running into serious trouble because of penny geshefts.

[Zaurbek]

You can create your own PMC from the natives .... and let them shoot.
As for the "penny gesheft" ... is the cruiser Moscow like that? And they will shoot at everything and they will be given any control center. And the countries that supply such weapons (PKR, KR, BR) ... must clearly understand that they will fly too.

[Orsis338]

Those. you propose to start piracy against a NATO country, most likely the entire Russian military and merchant fleet will sit in ports and not stick out if you try to do this

[Zaurbek]

Those. the country deliberately transfers the Kyrgyz Republic to Ukraine. What would she shoot at our ship or city ...... there is nothing more to do with this CD. Arrives in Belgorod, Voronezh .... Some kind of ship ... .. cry .... the next stage is universal launchers with tomahawks?

[Orsis338]

There are no universal launchers with tomahawks yet, they are in development. Well, what is it that will be handed over, there was nothing to attack, how many missiles have already arrived in Ukraine, and what did you want. Quickly take over the largest European country and get nothing for it?

[Zaurbek]

Absolutely not. My idea is that a third country (if it is not the USA, which can also answer), a small European country, must understand that it is transferring such weapons that will harm (kill people) in the Russian Federation ..... (I don’t say about the weapons of the battlefield). And such a country now feels complete security and impunity .... but there should be a direct connection between the transfer of the Kyrgyz Republic against the Russian Federation with the hit of the same Kyrgyz Republic on your assets. Here is the question for us, what is the best way to do this politically....and what is the right goal? Who should shoot: a soldier of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, a PMC of the Russian Federation, a PMC of another country, a rebel of a third country ......?

[Zaurbek]

what do American cruisers shoot from?

[3danimal]

Are you proposing to start an all-out naval war: to sink the ships of NATO countries in neutral waters?
Question: who will run out of warships and submarines first?

[Zaurbek]

I propose to link - the transfer of the CD to kill us with the transfer of the CD from us to a third party to kill them! Not about the transfer of small arms and art weapons and equipment for the war with the Russian army.

[Soldatov V.]

I’m sitting and wondering what to do to them (Bandera’s people) so that they surrender?
And if they arrange St. Bartholomew's Night 2.0? Prepare everything promptly - tactical missile troops, artillery of all calibers, aviation and deliver a one-time strike throughout Ukraine so that they think hard. Inflict two thousand missiles on all cities where there are garrisons and other troops. Won't give up again. We have rockets like Pedro in Brazil, you can't count them.
In Kyiv especially, in all ministries, the Rada, military registration and enlistment offices and electrical substations.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: V.

I’m sitting and wondering what to do to them (Bandera’s people) so that they surrender?
And if they arrange St. Bartholomew's Night 2.0? Prepare everything promptly - tactical missile troops, artillery of all calibers, aviation and deliver a one-time strike throughout Ukraine so that they think hard. Inflict two thousand missiles on all cities where there are garrisons and other troops. Won't give up again. We have rockets like Pedro in Brazil, you can't count them.
In Kyiv especially, in all ministries, the Rada, military registration and enlistment offices and electrical substations.

We no longer have missiles, everything that is produced is immediately fired.
If earlier up to 40 missiles were fired per day, now no more than 5.
and 3-4 goals have become common.
A couple of thousand missiles of all kinds have already been fired.

[Soldatov V.]

We still have at least 30 thousand, if there were less, then the NWO would not start. In which case we still need to shoot back in Western Europe.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: V.

We still have at least 30 thousand, if there were less, then the NWO would not start. In which case we still need to shoot back in Western Europe.

With the same success, you could write 70 thousand missiles and even 100 thousand.

And for beauty it was necessary to write 100500 .

Why - paper will endure everything.
Only now the mind must understand that the real pace of production, the real capacity utilization, the real number of employees of enterprises, the real government contracts for public procurement - have nothing to do with your Wishlist.

[Soldatov V.]

I write not my Wishlist but the information of an authoritative expert. You want to live and rivet 100 thousand. For Russia, this is not a problem, you Jews do not understand.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: V.

I write not my Wishlist but the information of an authoritative expert. You want to live and rivet 100 thousand. For Russia, this is not a problem, you Jews do not understand.

And you stupid people who don’t understand what it’s like to live in Samara from 1971 to 2022 won’t understand either ...
You always have someone to blame, because people like you cannot admit all your jambs, all your personal stupidity.
Blame it on anyone.
Even in his own Russian.
On a neighbor in a flight cage, or would be in his stupidity, but blame someone.


Your authoritative expert is your personal fantasy.
There are no such rates of missile production in the Russian Federation.
And it can’t be.
For many years I watched contracts for the production of missiles. We made missiles such as Caliber at a rate of 10 missiles per month for several years, then switched to a rate of 20 missiles per month.
A higher rate until the beginning of 2022 did not rise.
And you refer to some "authoritative" expert, though without naming it, you write about 30 thousand.

For Russia, this is precisely the problem, the problem of production has always been there since the 90s. And you are a man cut off from Russian life.
I personally know how they tried to restore the work of the 18th aviation plant in the very beginning of the 2000s. What would he start making planes again.
Was present at this.
2 years almost daily was at the plant.
Failed.

And you easily tryndit "not a problem."

Himself then at some factory, at least doing something?

Dreamer...

And as I understand it, it was you who went over all my messages in this topic - and earnestly put down your minus sign for each ...
you're so funny and petty...
Plus, he's an anti-Semite.
Almost in your opinion - do you immediately write down any Jews?
Do you like racism?

[Soldatov V.]

Engaged, deputy chief builder of ships.
30 thousand has been done and accumulated over 8-10 years.
No one starts a war without accumulated supplies first.
I don't remember the name of the expert, but I do remember his military-scientific work on the use of operational-tactical missiles in modern warfare.
Not a racist but an anti-Zionist, and in general Israel is now fighting on the side of the Bandera.
There are too many emigrants on this site, including Israelis, who are trying to teach us how to live and who consider themselves smarter than everyone else.
I put minuses only to anti-communists. If you are against the communists, I can put you.
You have your own experience, I have mine and we have different opinions, and I sign my name and do not hide behind ANYONE.

[3danimal]

Write a letter to the MoD and enlighten them fools

[Jacket in stock]

Another "useless" rocket.
The author is either an optimist or takes his readers for fools.
More like the second one.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Jacket in stock

.....
Or he is taking his readers for fools.
More like the second one.

exactly. The team of authors under the nickname Ryabov Kirill has been behaving this way for the last 3 months.
Which is just very revealing and fits into the concept:

[Center]

[Ryaruav]

Instead of marching on Kyiv, it was necessary to take Odessa and southern Bessarabia

[Dimon-chik-79]

They will and there is no doubt!

Foreign anti-ship missiles pose an obvious threat to our ships, and the emergence of such weapons in Ukraine will lead to retaliatory measures. As the practice of recent months has shown, the Russian armed forces have all the means and capabilities to neutralize such threats, and at different stages.

Hardly .. Only if you take control of the entire coast of Ukroreich

[ShM05]

With this author, all the weapons that the West supplies are old, ineffective, in small quantities, etc., will find a million different reasons for our inaction to destroy bridges and railways, everything reaches the front and shoots at our soldiers and, unfortunately, kills, such authors should be in first of all, send him to the trenches so that he feels this weapon on himself and then writes such articles

[Ryazan87]

We follow the flight of the author's thought:

So, Ukraine needs a coastal missile system, and RCC Harpoon actually does not have a suitable launcher land based.

more...

Denmark is ready to provide a certain amount of ammunition and a launcher for them. Probably, we are talking about self-propelled coastal complexes, which were in service with the Danish coastal troops until the beginning of the two thousandth.

and finally:

A ground launcher also existed and was used to a limited extent. Compatibility with different platforms contributed to the widespread use of "Harpoons".

some sort of Schrödinger harpoon.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Ryazanets87

We follow the flight of the author's thought:

So, Ukraine needs a coastal missile system, and RCC Harpoon actually does not have a suitable launcher land based.

more...

Denmark is ready to provide a certain amount of ammunition and a launcher for them. Probably, we are talking about self-propelled coastal complexes, which were in service with the Danish coastal troops until the beginning of the two thousandth.

and finally:

A ground launcher also existed and was used to a limited extent. Compatibility with different platforms contributed to the widespread use of "Harpoons".

some sort of Schrödinger harpoon.

In fact, in this context, "everything is almost true with the author" ...

For many years, the harpoon did not have a BRK.
It was the first to be officially put into service in Denmark, after Boeing made a kit for upgrading the Harpoon anti-ship missile control system.
After that, everything that is needed to test the rocket, form a flight mission, target designation, and conduct a launch - began to work from a regular laptop with a regular browser.
Accordingly, after such a "gift" it was the Danes who installed the Harpoon anti-ship missile launcher on a commercial truck chassis, because Denmark's place in geography - directly requires the presence of such DBKs.

[Yves762]

Rather, the story with the "Neptunes" is more interesting: where did they go completely; and why their production is not deployed.?.

[3danimal]

There were at least 8 of them before the start of hostilities (2 cars, 4 each) - they were demonstrated.

[value]

Well, thank God, the author reassured me. It turns out that Harpoons will not help Ukraine. Otherwise, I got nervous that other ships of our fleet would follow the cruiser Moscow.

[3danimal]

About here there were thousands of comments and dozens of articles reliably proving (in the spirit of “yes, I tell you”) the complete harmlessness of modern subsonic low-flying anti-ship missiles for Russian warships. Like, they will stray in tens and hundreds and will only contribute to the ruin of the military-industrial complex of the side using them.

[3danimal]

"Political risks" from the supply of anti-ship missiles are no more than from the supply of American 100+ towed howitzers and self-propelled guns from different countries.
The United States frankly shows that it will continue deliveries. Equipped one of the ships with a carrying capacity of 6000 tons ..
80 years ago, the Germans with alternating drowned American Lend-Lease convoys in the Atlantic. Will the leadership of the Russian Federation have the spirit for this? There are big doubts.

[3danimal]

By the way, the United States can remove the “risks” from the same Sweden by simply buying the coastal complexes and transferring them to Ukraine on its own behalf.

[3danimal]

Imported NSM or Harpoon missiles, as well as launchers for them, can be destroyed almost at any time after they enter Ukrainian territory

Yeah, just like the launchers from the Neptune anti-ship missiles, like a hundred American howitzers and everything else ..

[3danimal]

Coastal complex with anti-ship missiles "Harpoon":

[cooper]

So they run up against the promised blows to the decision centers. Who to start with? Wait-sir.

[APASUS]

I would not be very happy about the difficulties with the delivery. According to some reports, it was NSM that sank Moscow. So there were deliveries and there was a complete package, including reconnaissance, aiming and specialists.

[smaug78]

The author has not heard about Serpentine and target designation by means of NATO, and he forgot about "Moscow". Yes, and about the "Caliber" I remembered out of place, "Harpoon" on a wheeled chassis. Another capricious article...

[Seryoga Nemuslim]

As a result, pigs will be deprived of the Black Sea