ACS PzH 2000 for Ukraine. Now from the Netherlands

45

PzH 2000NL of the Netherlands Army


Not so long ago, information appeared in the foreign press about the possible transfer of PzH 2000 self-propelled artillery mounts to the Ukrainian army. Germany could provide equipment of this type. However, it soon became clear that the German army was not going to give up their armored vehicles. At the same time, another possible supplier was found. According to recent reports, it could be the Netherlands.



First try


On the upcoming delivery of Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled guns to Ukraine on April 9, the German edition of Welt Am Sonntag reported. From unnamed sources, it learned that the German company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann offered the Ukrainian leadership to purchase 100 self-propelled guns. Ukraine showed interest in such a proposal and sent a corresponding request to the German Ministry of Economics.

It was alleged that Kyiv was offered to purchase a hundred PzH 2000 products, along with spare parts, training services, etc. The total cost of such "aid" was estimated at 1,7 billion euros. At the same time, the start of deliveries was delayed for 30 months - the first batches of equipment and spare parts could arrive in Ukraine only in the fall of 2024.


However, such news have not received official confirmation. In the following days, German officials repeatedly talked about this or that assistance for Ukraine, but never once mentioned self-propelled guns. Moreover, some statements can be considered as a veiled or even explicit refusal to supply the PzH 2000 and some other classes of vehicles.

So, on April 20, German Foreign Minister Annalena Berbock announced that the German government approved the transfer of some armored vehicles to the Ukrainian army. However, Germany does not have any machines that could be transferred immediately. At the same time, the German side is ready to support third countries that will supply equipment to Ukraine from the presence of their armies.

Also, the Bundeswehr does not have the ability to send artillery systems to Ukrainian colleagues. At the same time, A. Burbock pointed out that German assistance in this area would be limited only to the preparation of Ukrainian crews and maintenance of their weapons.


Thus, the news about the possible transfer or sale of the PzH 2000 self-propelled guns from the presence of the Bundeswehr did not reflect the real situation. Germany has a fundamental opportunity to share such equipment, but is not going to use it. Due to this, Berlin protects itself from possible political consequences, and its army from a reduction in the active fleet of armored vehicles.

According to new data


On April 20, the American news agency Bloomberg published new data on the possible deliveries of PzH 2000 to Ukraine. From an unnamed source in the German government, it learned that Germany had found a way to help Kyiv and keep its armored vehicles in service. To do this, it is proposed to involve a third party. At the time of the appearance of such news, negotiations were underway between the participants in this scheme.

It is reported that the PzH 2000 self-propelled guns to help Ukraine will be allocated not by the Bundeswehr, but by the armed forces of the Netherlands. In this case, Germany will not stand aside. It will provide a large amount of ammunition, as well as organize training for Ukrainian crews. The educational process will be carried out on the territory of Germany or Poland - the use of Ukrainian bases is excluded due to unacceptable risks.

Other details of the scheme involving Germany, the Netherlands and Ukraine are not specified. In particular, the number of self-propelled guns for transfer, the timing of their appearance on Ukrainian territory, the financial and commercial aspects of the agreement, etc. are unknown.


Aid volumes


The armed forces of the Netherlands are now being considered as a possible supplier of PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzers for Ukraine. In theory, they are able to allocate a certain number of combat vehicles for help. However, for objective reasons, such assistance will be limited both in quantitative and qualitative terms.

The Netherlands began purchasing PzH 2000 self-propelled guns at the beginning of the 2002s. In 2004, an agreement was signed for the supply of equipment, and in 2000 the manufacturer shipped the first batch. Under the terms of the agreement, these were new self-propelled guns in a slightly modified form, this version of the machine is sometimes referred to as the PzH 2009NL. Deliveries continued until 57, and in total the Dutch army received XNUMX combat vehicles and a corresponding amount of support equipment.

The resulting equipment was mastered and actively used in exercises and at training grounds. However, later PzH 2000, along with other equipment, fell under the reduction provided for by the next reform of the armed forces. Less than half of the available self-propelled guns were left in operation, and the rest were put into reserve.


At the moment, the army of the Netherlands has only one artillery unit - the 41st artillery battalion. It consists of four batteries, three of which are equipped with self-propelled PzH 2000. Two batteries retain their staff with nine vehicles each. The third is reduced to 6 units, but it is reported that it can be increased to normal numbers. Two more armored vehicles are used as training.

Thus, at the moment, 26 PzH 2000 self-propelled guns out of 57 received are in operation. In the near future, their number may increase to 29. Accordingly, there are 31 self-propelled guns in storage with the prospect of reducing to 28. Such a reserve can be used to provide assistance to Ukraine. Sending equipment from storage will allow you to solve urgent political problems, but at the same time not leave your army without the necessary armored vehicles.

Doubtful prospects


The potential supplier of the PzH 2000 self-propelled guns for Ukraine has changed, but this will not fundamentally change the prospects for such military-technical assistance. Regardless of the sending country, the transfer of armored vehicles to the Ukrainian army faces a number of difficulties and threats that drastically reduce its potential.

First of all, the real amount of equipment that can be transferred is questionable. There are three dozen self-propelled guns in the reserve of the Netherlands, and not all of them can be of help to Ukraine. At the same time, even 31 armored vehicles are unlikely to significantly affect the course of battles and the situation as a whole. With the transfer of a smaller number of self-propelled guns, the effect of deliveries will be even lower.


Germany is ready to organize crew training, but this process will take at least several months. The Kyiv regime simply does not have such a margin of time, and trained crews will not have time to get to the front in time. In theory, this problem can be solved by transferring equipment along with foreign crews, but this leads to political and military risks.

The next problem is the risk of losing equipment. Self-propelled guns can easily be delivered to the Ukrainian border, but after crossing it, they can be destroyed at any time. Only the luckiest vehicles will make it to the war zone. How long they will be able to participate in the battles is unclear. Apparently, they will become a priority target and will also be quickly hit or become a trophy for the advancing troops.

Useless plans


In terms of performance and operational characteristics, the PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzer is considered one of the best modern examples in its class. In this regard, such equipment is of great interest to the Ukrainian army, and foreign countries are ready to help with its production. Previously, it was about the supply of equipment from Germany, and now the Netherlands is ready to act as a supplier.

However, the replacement of the supplier country will not affect the overall situation in any way. Ukraine, having received the most modern foreign self-propelled guns, simply will not be able to use the full potential of such equipment due to a lack of its own competencies, due to the superiority of the enemy, etc. Is it worth the Netherlands to give its serviceable equipment to such an “ally” is a big question.
45 comments
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  1. +14
    April 24 2022 05: 54
    55,3 tons of weight, 60 shells, 155 caliber cannon, firing range 30-40 km, 420 km of travel at one gas station, a thousand horses engine ... what
    Not all bridges can withstand this elephant, only NATO shells, you need fucking 3 tanks of fuel ... who will serve in the event of a breakdown? ... you can’t take Dutch technicians to the battlefield ... only NATO shells.
    But all the same, a serious weapon ... long-range ... the supply should be stopped before the front.
    1. +11
      April 24 2022 07: 53
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      55,3 tons of weight,

      This is the most significant drawback of this combat vehicle. In the realities of Ukraine, this will require constant engineering support, that is, they will be used by units no less than a battery, otherwise too much engineering equipment will have to be attached to them ...
      And yes, this is perhaps the best "acquisition" of the APU at the moment.
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      But still, a serious weapon ... long-range ...

      And also fast...
      1. 0
        April 25 2022 17: 34
        This is the most significant drawback of this combat vehicle.

        For tanks, this indicator is already, to put it mildly, more. But something no one refuses to use tanks even with such a mass.
        1. 0
          April 26 2022 04: 50
          Quote: Bogalex
          For tanks, this figure is already, to put it mildly, more.

          Which tanks? Western ones? Yes. But this is their "headache". Our tanks are still within 45 ... 47 tons. As they say, feel the difference
          1. 0
            April 26 2022 09: 05
            And whose PzH-2000 is it, isn't it Western? With whom does she move along the same roads and bridges, with the T-72B3 or with Leopards and Abrams? What is the point of comparing it with the weight of our tanks?
            1. 0
              April 26 2022 10: 20
              Quote: Bogalex
              And whose PzH-2000 is it, isn't it Western? With whom does she move along the same roads and bridges, with the T-72B3 or with Leopards and Abrams?

              Depending on where they are, it happens that they drive along the same roads with the T-72 ...
    2. -7
      April 24 2022 10: 24
      Yes, nonsense of a piece of iron, the question is: where are the shells from? And also spare parts, I think the requirement for fuel will be the same. They will not bring it from the assembly line, most likely they were in the hangars, they will sprinkle as soon as they arrive.
      1. +3
        April 24 2022 13: 13
        155mm shells from the same Europe, the USA and Canada, already under 200000, want to put together 72 M 777 howitzers.
    3. +1
      April 24 2022 12: 32
      According to the law of Ukraine, foreigners can serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
      1. -1
        April 24 2022 13: 46
        foreigners can serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
        Do they need it?
        1. +1
          April 24 2022 14: 31
          I also don't think they need it. But through federal channels they say that up to 7 foreign mercenaries are already in Ukraine. Probably got lost.
          1. +1
            April 24 2022 22: 22
            up to 7 thousand foreign mercenaries.
            There are a certain number of foreigners there, but they are mostly adventurers, not professionals. And 7 thousand is an exaggeration, I think. Uckers generally declare about 20 thousand.
  2. +2
    April 24 2022 05: 54
    With sane processing of bridges (destruction), all Western howitzers will be able to at least somehow effectively be used only in the defense of western Ukraine (UGIL), because the supply of self-propelled guns and guns is one thing, and the massive supply of ammunition is somewhat different!
  3. +14
    April 24 2022 06: 12
    Christ is Risen you Orthodox.
  4. KCA
    +1
    April 24 2022 06: 24
    I looked at the old topic about the PzH-2000, does it really have an automatic machine only for shells, and does the charge fit manually? Somehow not ice
    1. 0
      April 24 2022 19: 41
      Quote: KCA
      does she really have an automatic machine only for shells, and does the charge fit manually? Somehow not ice
      The projectile is heavy, so the machine is in place here. And howitzers have different charges (different amounts of gunpowder) and an automatic machine for this case should be more difficult than for shells.
      Although the Germans have options with a full automatic.
      - RCH 155 (on "Boxer" chassis)

      - AGM "Donar" 155mm
      Well, one more, Rheinmetall L52 howitzer in a turret with a full automatic, on the chassis of Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicles
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. 0
    April 24 2022 06: 44
    When it comes to a self-propelled howitzer, the word "armored vehicle" cuts the ear.
    1. 0
      April 25 2022 17: 39
      In vain you are. They can even be armored (not entirely, but the most important units and assemblies, crew locations, ammunition stowage, etc.), and up to protection against 12,7 mm caliber, or even more.
  7. +5
    April 24 2022 06: 58
    Arms deliveries are reminiscent of Soviet deliveries of modern technology to the Arabs in the XNUMXs and XNUMXs, when modern equipment was destroyed/thrown/broken due to unskilled and unmotivated personnel.
    The problem of Ukraine is not in the absence of artillery, but in the absence of ammunition and crews (I can’t understand how Ukraine managed to fall in love with gigantic reserves, even taking into account the sale).
    1. +6
      April 24 2022 08: 12
      The problem of Ukraine is not in the absence of artillery, but in the absence of ammunition and crews (I can’t understand how Ukraine managed to fall in love with gigantic reserves, even taking into account the sale).
      yeah simple.
      Firstly, the war has been going on for 8 years, just let the shells fly.
      Second, the warehouses were on fire.
      Thirdly, in Balakleya alone, our millions of shells were immediately cut off from the supply.
      But there is no production of its own, so ....
      Although they are not particularly hungry, their artillery is working and working ....
      1. +1
        April 24 2022 08: 47
        Does it work and work with what it has or with what it would like? Even HE shells have big differences in firing range. And this is not remembering the bottom generators.
        Plus, a change (or rather a spread) in the properties of gunpowder from storage (in the Russian Federation, it seems that all ammunition older than the seventieth or eightieth year was disposed of). Arta with a firing range of more than 25-27 km in Ukraine has actually ended. Single Hyacinths and Peonies do not count, mass character decides. Plus a regular supply of ammunition.
    2. +2
      April 24 2022 14: 27
      The bottomlessness of gigantic reserves is greatly exaggerated, it concerns both sides.
      1. 0
        29 May 2022 03: 54
        Uh-huh, only we have the whole range of weapons and shells for it, but the Ukrainians?
  8. +1
    April 24 2022 07: 19
    You can’t bring such a monster on a truck, by rail transport, they will immediately open and destroy it!
    1. +5
      April 24 2022 08: 14
      railway transport - immediately open and destroy
      yeah?
      And how many have been destroyed?
      The tanks are already in the troops.
      1. 0
        23 June 2022 05: 15
        You can’t track everything, but something is covered hidden in the workshops of factories, in the terminals of transport companies and at railway stations
        And artillery on the ground constantly gets in the counter-battery fight. We arrived, got up and flew.
        But this self-propelled gun, along with ammunition, would be nice to have a whole trophy, even with a dead cart.
  9. -6
    April 24 2022 08: 12
    how, HOW, itit, they can deliver it?! this should be immediately destroyed on the border with psheks. where are our Mongol and other multi-star ones looking? ...
    1. +1
      April 24 2022 13: 17
      Just like everything else, they put it on Ukraine - the border with Poland and Romania is several hundred kilometers long, and we don’t have reconnaissance UAVs like the Global Hawk to constantly reconnoiter the border at high altitudes of what and where it’s coming from so that you can immediately direct missiles at weapons transfer points.
      1. -2
        April 24 2022 14: 59
        three (conditionally) railway branches and three (again conditionally) roads. what are the ... in the UAV ?! sit and shoot. some kind of bullshit
        1. +4
          April 24 2022 17: 35
          Three branches! - there are several hundred roads to the border that are asphalt and unpaved flat terrain anywhere you can cross the border on your own and transport weapons with everything you want, from trucks to bicycles. You advice in reality come back.
  10. -6
    April 24 2022 10: 22
    I hope the metal is good, after all, then we will have to melt them down.
  11. +8
    April 24 2022 10: 28
    "however, this process will take at least several months. The Kyiv regime simply does not have such a margin of time" - and what margin of time is there?) Otherwise, 2 months have already passed, and the RF Armed Forces somehow did not particularly advance beyond those lines that were occupied in first week. And some where so and did have to leave.
  12. +2
    April 24 2022 10: 56
    And what can we oppose to this howitzer, except for virtual destruction at the border? Because it’s not worth it to run into problems with training and maintenance. These are not Afghan and Chechen tribes.
    1. 0
      April 25 2022 17: 48
      Alas, but in terms of artillery - almost nothing ... It remains to destroy them with aircraft, long-range large-caliber MLRS and naval OTRK
      and ground based. Under these conditions, one cannot but rejoice at the small number of deliveries.
      1. +1
        April 26 2022 00: 59
        True OPEN is running out
  13. -1
    April 24 2022 12: 07
    It's worth it, it's not worth it, what's the difference? There is a different order from the Washington Regional Committee, so they will put it.
  14. +2
    April 24 2022 22: 20
    The Western "partners" have grown bolder slowly. So, soon, they will reach completely "limitless" systems.
    1. 0
      April 25 2022 13: 06
      Quote: Lena Petrova
      The Western "partners" have grown bolder slowly. So, soon, they will reach completely "limitless" systems.

      So already. Apparently "Moscow" and "Saratov" were sunk not without their participation.
  15. +1
    April 25 2022 09: 57
    It is hard to believe that the Netherlands will give at least something. Too little by ourselves.
  16. 0
    April 25 2022 13: 01
    Now it’s clear where these bastards got their equipment from. Ukraine has every chance of becoming a testing ground for NATO equipment and weapons. The bloody clown will wash away, and the rest will be scorched earth with destroyed cities.
  17. 0
    April 25 2022 14: 56
    The attempt of a mediocre assassination attempt by the insidious fascists on the precious life of the heroic V. Solovyov failed. The next assassination attempt will be to use a unitary charge from this NATO howitzer direct fire into the studio during the Sunday Evening TV program. "..flies, a tired wedge flies across the sky ..." straight to Paradise.
  18. 0
    April 25 2022 17: 32
    Self-propelled guns can easily be delivered to the Ukrainian border, but after crossing it, they can be destroyed at any time. Only the luckiest vehicles will make it to the war zone.

    Well, let's not overdo it! How much have you heard about the echelons of military equipment destroyed somewhere near Lvov or Ivano-Frankivsk?
  19. 0
    April 26 2022 02: 53
    No wonder why Ruia is bombing railway stations now.
  20. 0
    29 May 2022 03: 50
    And how will 3-5-10 sau help Khokhls? Even very good ones.
  21. -1
    14 July 2022 20: 29
    Another story about a worthless and untimely-useless supply of weapons. How you spank under a blueprint. Another pack of noodles for hanging on the ears.