Strange help: possible delivery of MBT Leopard 1 to Ukraine

126

Main tank Leopard 1A5

In Germany, the possibility of transferring various types of armored vehicles to the Ukrainian army is being considered. The other day it became known that one of the leading companies in the military industry is ready to offer and supply several dozen tanks Leopard 1 and other armored vehicles. If such a proposal can be negotiated with Berlin, deliveries could begin within the next few weeks.

New offer


The possibility of deliveries of German tanks to Ukraine on Monday, April 11, was reported by the German publication Handelsblatt. Information about such plans was personally revealed by the head of the Rheinmetall concern, Armin Papperger. According to him, the concern is ready to supply the Ukrainian army with several dozen tanks and infantry fighting vehicles of old types.



First of all, it is proposed to transfer 50 Leopard 1 main tanks; modification is not specified. This technique was built by the German industry several decades ago and was in service with various foreign countries. Subsequently, obsolete MBTs returned to Germany and became the property of Rheinmetall.

It is alleged that at the moment the concern's specialists are checking the existing tanks and determining their condition. Whether repairs and restoration are planned if any problems are found is not reported. After the completion of these activities, it is possible to start deliveries.


To start deliveries, you must obtain permission from the German government. If such a document appears, the transfer of equipment can be completed within a limited time frame. According to A. Papperger, the first Leopards will be able to go to Ukraine in six weeks. It will take up to three months to transfer all the tanks.

In addition to fifty Leopard 1 tanks, Rheinmetall storage sites have 50-60 old Marder infantry fighting vehicles. They are also ready to hand over to the Ukrainian army. As in the case of MBT, the first infantry fighting vehicles can be exported in a month and a half.

Details of the organization of such deliveries are not reported. In particular, it is not specified whether assistance in the form of MBT and infantry fighting vehicles will be free of charge or will require payment for it. At the same time, it is reported that deliveries may not go directly, but through an intermediary represented by a subsidiary of Rheinmetall Italia.

Deprecated Sample


MBT Leopard 1 has been developed since the mid-fifties and entered service with the German army in 1965. The production of such equipment lasted almost two decades and was completed by the mid-eighties. During this time, the German industry has produced more than 4700 tanks for its army and for foreign customers. In addition, on the basis of Leopard-1, several auxiliary and special machines for various purposes were created, which were also produced in a large series.


The first and main customer of the Leopard-1 tanks was the Bundeswehr. The German army was armed with MBTs of all major modifications and all special vehicles based on them. Already in the sixties, the export of equipment was established. Tanks and unified vehicles were supplied to various countries of Europe and both Americas. In total, they were operated by approx. 15 armies.

By the beginning of the nineties, Leopard 1s were morally and physically obsolete, which is why the process of replacing them began in several countries. Germany was the first in this case, and then other countries followed. Decommissioned tanks often changed owners, and a significant part of them returned to Germany. Now the equipment is located at long-term storage sites owned by the army and private enterprises. "Leopards-1" remain in service with only five countries. A few more armies continue to use equipment based on them.

Technical difficulties


At the time of its appearance, the Leopard-1 was a completely modern tank with fairly high performance. However, almost 60 years have passed since then, and it has long been obsolete. Various upgrades made it possible to improve certain characteristics, but it was not possible in principle to get rid of some shortcomings.

Leopard 1 of all modifications have homogeneous hull and turret armor up to 60-70 mm thick, and overhead armor elements were introduced in later modernization projects. Such armor has limited characteristics and actually protects only from small-caliber artillery. Any modern tank gun can easily break through this defense in almost the entire range of practically possible ranges.


"Leopards" of the first version were equipped with a 105-mm rifled gun L7 with a barrel length of 52 klb and unitary loading. Like the tank as a whole, for its time it was a successful weapon, but later it became obsolete. Now the L7 can only effectively deal with light armored vehicles that do not have reinforced anti-ballistic armor.

As it developed, the tank received more advanced means of observation and fire control, which increased its combat characteristics. However, the latest modification of the Leopard 1A5 was created back in the late eighties, and its equipment remained at the level of that time. Accordingly, competition with modern tanks is out of the question.

Depending on the modification, the Leopard-1 had a combat weight of 40 tons or more. The power plant was built on an MTU multi-fuel engine with an HP 820 power. It provided a maximum speed of up to 65 km / h with a power reserve of up to 600 km, as well as acceptable mobility and maneuverability on different landscapes.

In the context of the transfer of tanks to Ukraine, additional difficulties should arise, directly related to their technical features. First of all, it is the need to train the crew and technical staff. The Ukrainian army operates Soviet-style tanks, and imported equipment will have to be mastered almost from scratch. In addition, there is the problem of supplying ammunition. There are no 105-mm unitary shots in the arsenal of Ukraine, and they can only be obtained from abroad.


Questionable benefit


The situation around the possible deliveries of German Leopard 1 tanks to the Ukrainian army is becoming quite concrete. In the emerging picture, there are certain benefits for Germany, but there is virtually no benefit for Ukraine. Moreover, along with tanks, Kyiv may even get additional problems.

The reasons for the proposal from the Rheinmetall concern are obvious. He wants to get rid of unnecessary property that occupies space and does not have any prospects on the market. At the same time, it is possible not only to get rid of obsolete tanks, but also to make money on it - if the Leopards are transferred on a commercial basis.

The idea of ​​supplying old MBTs is also beneficial to the German leadership. It promises Kiev all-round support, incl. supply of heavy weapons and equipment. It makes no sense to transfer modern samples, and "illiquid assets" will allow you to fulfill promises and do without unnecessary expenses.

With all this, the possible supply of Leopard 1 tanks is meaningless and useless for Ukraine. She may have to pay for the equipment or get a loan for its purchase, which in the current conditions becomes a separate problem. Then it will be necessary to train the crews and prepare the operation, taking into account all the requirements and foreign standards. And only after that the tanks will have a chance to get to the front line.


However, the implementation of all these measures, not to mention the full-fledged combat use and obtaining the desired results, is in question. German tanks can be detected and destroyed at any time after crossing the Ukrainian border. If they manage to get to the battlefield, obsolescence will contribute to a quick failure or complete destruction.

Strange Help


In recent days, Germany's military-technical assistance to Ukraine has begun to take on a specific form. For several weeks, the German side sent various light weapons to the Kiev regime free of charge, incl. modern types. Now approaches to help are changing. Kiev is offered armored vehicles, but they do not forget about their interests and even more actively promote them. So, the Ukrainian army can be transferred or sold long-obsolete tanks that are not needed by the current owners. Newer vehicles, such as the PzH 2000 self-propelled guns, according to the latest news, are ready to deliver only on a commercial basis and only in 2024.

Thus, it becomes clear that the current German aid to Ukraine has several goals. Germany seeks to gain political benefits from assistance in the fight against "Russian aggression". And at the same time, she is looking for ways to make money on the needs of a partner who finds herself in a difficult situation. They plan to make money in such a situation on everything, incl. on the supply of obsolete and unnecessary tanks.
126 comments
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  1. +11
    April 13 2022 04: 24
    since the time of Alexander Nevsky, nothing has changed ... the Teutons again strive to get a sip and settle down for a hundred years.
  2. +7
    April 13 2022 04: 32
    Loch is not a mammoth. It won’t die out. They’ll sell second-hand junk to Kiev suckers. Turkish leopards burned like candles from old babies, and that’s enough RPG recourse
    1. +5
      April 13 2022 04: 58
      Yes, and leo2 also somehow did not shine in Yemen
      Arabs were unhappy
      Well, this metal will be sold there already. The barn and the hut burned down. belay
      1. +10
        April 13 2022 07: 01
        There has never been "Leo" in Yemen.
        1. 0
          27 May 2022 07: 34
          Abramki and leklers burned there
          1. -1
            27 May 2022 17: 29
            Not a single Leclerc was lost.
    2. +11
      April 13 2022 04: 59
      Almost 60 years have passed, and it has long been morally obsolete.
      They wanted to sell the Panther, but they couldn’t find it anymore .... No.
      1. +1
        21 May 2022 02: 47
        almost 60 years have passed, and it has long been obsolete

        It became morally obsolete immediately after its appearance. In 1967, the T-64 nullified all past heavy armored vehicles. Homogeneous armor, not the best, besides, the best and thickest, rifled gun ... this is the level of t-62 and m-60 at best.
  3. +6
    April 13 2022 04: 58
    Three months for delivery, three months for crew training ... by that time the special operation will be completed ... and who needs tanks with 60-70 mm armor now?
    1. +14
      April 13 2022 06: 30
      . and who needs tanks with 60-70 mm armor now?


      Someone needs. Now the leading countries are developing, producing and adopting light tanks with bulletproof armor (they hold a maximum of 12,7 mm).
      "Octopus" Russia.


      "Stingray" USA.


      And our colleague spoke correctly about the use below
      Tucan (Vasily)
      "Leopard-1" is quite capable of fighting effectively in defensive operations as a lightly armored tank destroyer.
      1. +1
        April 13 2022 07: 00
        Actually, they have nothing more to supply there - Abrams 61 tons, the second Leoperd 70 tons. Not for this theater at all. There is nothing to say about British trash.
        Leclerc would fit (I personally think it's the best Western tank), but as they say "you need such a cow yourself"
        1. +7
          April 13 2022 07: 36
          There is nothing to say about British trash.

          "Scorpio" they seem to be not bad, at least in service with another 18 armies, except for Britain itself. But this, of course, is a reconnaissance vehicle, not an open battle.

        2. +7
          April 13 2022 10: 33
          Quote: El Barto
          Actually, they have nothing more to supply there - Abrams 61 tons, the second Leoperd 70 tons.

          With Leo-2, the problem, PMSM, is not in weight, but in availability. When in 2016 it was decided to increase the tank fleet of the Bundeswehr from 225 to 320 vehicles with the modernization of 104 tanks in the 2A7V version, there was not enough equipment from the Krau-Maffei Wegmann storage site for this and had to buy more leftovers around the world.
          Of the 104 "new" tanks planned for modernization according to the Leopard 2A7V variant, 68 should be Leopard 2A4 vehicles, redeemed by KMW from the presence of the Swedish army, 16 - Leopard 2A6 tanks, similarly redeemed from the presence of the Dutch army, and another 20 - planned for completion 20 Leopard 2A7 tanks of the Bundeswehr. 155 Leopard 2A6 and 50 Leopard 2A6M tanks will remain unmodernized [the difference in the number of 11 tanks to the number of "320" is not explained, but, according to one of the earlier sources, these should be Leopard 2A5 tanks returned from KMW storage, which are supposed to be used in test purposes - bmpd].
          © bmpd
      2. +8
        April 13 2022 08: 32
        To begin with: the Octopus is not a tank, and it was adopted for the Airborne Forces, since there can be no other alternative. Light tanks are made either for the poor, or for operations in specific areas, such as in the mountains. Can also be used against tribes in Africa that don't have anti-tank missiles. Using a light tank in the steppe, and even against the T72 and with the complete superiority of enemy aircraft, as in Ukraine, is a murder for the crews, although who considered them there as people.
        1. +8
          April 13 2022 08: 42
          . To use a light tank in the steppe, and even against the T72 and with the complete superiority of enemy aircraft, as in Ukraine, this is a murder for the crews,

          And who spoke about this?

          And our colleague spoke correctly about the use below
          Tucan (Vasily)
          "Leopard-1" is quite capable of fighting effectively in defensive operations as a lightly armored tank destroyer.
          1. +4
            April 13 2022 09: 17
            In modern times, "Leopard 1" is "an ambush beast."
            And it is desirable to have shells of the latest developments.
            Only "whether those cucumbers will be fresh"?
            1. +6
              April 13 2022 09: 28
              Only "whether those cucumbers will be fresh"?

              This is unlikely, only from warehouses, but I think they did not have a shelf life, otherwise what was the point of keeping these tanks in storage.
              1. +4
                April 13 2022 09: 34
                Swedes, Danes, Israelis and Chinese have similar ammunition ...
                The Danes in 1994, firing from their L-1A5 guns, destroyed or knocked out 4 Serbian T-55s.
                Having spent about 93 shells. Perhaps this number includes the OFS. Serbian tanks were supported by infantry.
                1. +7
                  April 13 2022 09: 40
                  The T-55 is an excellent machine for its time, but as far as I know, we don’t even have them in storage.
                  1. +4
                    April 13 2022 09: 51
                    You can ask China. They probably keep a lot of "clones" of the T-54. Even armed with a copy of the L7.
                    1. +4
                      April 13 2022 10: 27
                      You can ask China.


                      "Zist then he zist, so who will give him." laughing
                  2. 0
                    21 May 2022 02: 56
                    The T-55 is an excellent machine for its time, but as far as I know, we don’t even have them in storage.

                    Come on!?
            2. +1
              April 13 2022 12: 44
              And there are no modern ones, why invent to junk?
              1. +5
                April 13 2022 12: 59
                Has the Turkish army abandoned the use of M-60 tanks?
                Only in the Taiwanese army there are 565 tanks with a 105 mm M68 gun (an American copy of the L7)!
        2. +6
          April 13 2022 08: 46
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          To use a light tank in the steppe, and even against the T72 and with the complete superiority of enemy aircraft, as in Ukraine, this is a murder for the crews,

          use the same t-64 bv - the same against aviation and in the steppe .. and in settlements and shelters, they can drink blood normally ..
          1. +1
            April 13 2022 12: 45
            Well, the T64 can argue with the T72, but the Leopard 1 is only if it is well hidden and hammered point-blank into the side.
            1. +5
              April 13 2022 12: 54
              105 mm and T72 on the forehead is not bad so it can be taken with luck. And almost all options, look at the tables for 105 mm BC.
              There, questions with T80 and T90 on penetration begin; and then - full-scale experiments have not yet been.
      3. +2
        April 13 2022 09: 32
        Someone needs. Now the leading countries are developing, producing and adopting light tanks with bulletproof armor (they hold a maximum of 12,7 mm).

        Well, you compared, the "Octopus" is positioned as a self-propelled gun for landing, it is lightened for the possibility of being transferred by aircraft, as a tank for ground troops is not even considered.
        As for using the Leopard as a tank destroyer - in my opinion, not the best idea, he has a weak 105 mm cannon by modern requirements, which is practically powerless against modern Russian tanks. On the "Octopus" is, as far as I remember, a 125 mm gun, much more powerful.
        1. +1
          April 15 2022 03: 25
          Quote from Andy_nsk
          As for using the Leopard as a tank destroyer - in my opinion, not the best idea,

          Yes, it is obvious that no one in Ukraine will use Leopard1 as a tank. The name "tank" means nothing here. They will just use it as something like an infantry fighting vehicle. That's all. For lack of a better one, this will do. Weakly armored "iron", and even without a 105 mm gun, are still used a lot by both sides. Do not fight "on foot" ...
      4. +1
        April 13 2022 15: 29
        Whom will he destroy? T-72? Older tanks are not in service.
      5. +1
        April 18 2022 07: 01
        Don't confuse the main battle tank with World War II armor and specially designed airborne vehicles.
      6. 0
        21 May 2022 02: 51
        like a lightly armored tank destroyer

        not able to. The gun is not good. The same octopus has a better cannon and swims. Some superiority in armor does not solve (if you add an infinitesimal value to an infinitesimal value, you still get an infinitesimal value ...) IMHO the worst version of NATO tanks of that time
      7. +1
        2 June 2022 09: 52
        Well, for example, I would not classify Leo-1 as a light armored vehicle.
        When booking it, it will calmly survive the fragments from the 152mm OFS.
        Yes, even compared to the tanks of the 70s, his armor is not very good. But the BMP does not have 45-60mm armor ..
        And the gun. Well, here I finally don’t understand why some comrades speak disparagingly about her !!! This fluff is good even now. 5500 atm of pressure in the barrel is a normal indicator, and in the 60s it’s so super. With due luck, she will be able to take the forehead of a modern tank, or at least damage it.
        So this will be an ambush tank, it can really work as a fighter.
    2. +3
      April 13 2022 08: 47
      Quote from Andy_nsk
      and who needs tanks with 60-70 mm armor now?

      For action in the Carpathians
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  4. +5
    April 13 2022 05: 22
    "Leopard-1" is quite capable of fighting effectively in defensive operations as a lightly armored tank destroyer. But in an offensive battle, where modern MBTs and anti-tank systems will confront him, he has no prospects.
    1. -5
      April 13 2022 06: 39
      And how will he exterminate with his fart????
      1. +8
        April 13 2022 06: 49
        Quote: garri-lin
        And how will he exterminate with his fart????

        MBT in the sides, the rest of our armored vehicles anywhere, on the fly.
        The question is in the supplied modification, if the latter, then the leopards have an advantage in the SLA and, accordingly, in the first shot.
        1. -8
          April 13 2022 08: 34
          For starters, 105 mm will most likely not be taken on board the T72B3. But the main thing is that this tank still needs to be brought to the enemy’s equipment, and given our superiority in aviation and reconnaissance equipment, the Leopard will turn into a target, although of course there will be some losses from it, from ambushes.
          1. +10
            April 13 2022 08: 53
            the side of the t-72 is 70-80 mm - so think from what distance a projectile with tungsten from 105 mm will take ..
            1. -4
              April 13 2022 12: 43
              And besides the board, nothing else? Well, there is a type of Relic, hinged screens?
              1. +2
                April 13 2022 14: 27
                and for Relict, caliber 105 or 120 is not important .. it will either work or not, if yes, then it will withstand 120, if not, then it will break through 105 .. you see, in the end we came to the conclusion that the gun on them is quite normal for defeat sides and it’s not about her, but about Relic ... In addition, on most t-72s it’s not Relic, but Contact ..
                1. +1
                  April 13 2022 17: 23
                  And to substitute a whole disposable tank for a return shot for the sake of hitting the side ???? Given that the answer will break through from any angle ???
                  1. +1
                    April 13 2022 21: 05
                    your logic is strange, as if I were arguing somewhere that it is better than the t-90 .. of course the t-90 is better than a disposable tank .. but when is there no t-90? is it better to have such a tank or an RPG-7 in your hands? a fighter even with a Javelin from all sides and a rifleman breaks through, but they shoot and hit? I don't understand what you want to prove..
                    1. +1
                      April 13 2022 23: 34
                      That there is only one fighter with a javelin and not four from the tank crew. And that it is much easier for him to hide before a shot than to hide a whole tank.
                      1. +1
                        April 14 2022 06: 12
                        I agree with you, but I'm talking about the fact that such a tank can knock out a modern tank (I'm not talking about what will happen to it later), is one of us wrong?
                      2. +1
                        April 14 2022 20: 46
                        That's just the point that the probability of such "can" is very small. Although after the incident with the cruiser Moscow, I am ready to believe in everything.
          2. +2
            April 13 2022 16: 25
            Quote: Victor Sergeev
            For starters, 105 mm will most likely not be taken on board the T72B3.

            armor-piercing - 120 - 200mm, sub-caliber - up to 500mm at a distance of 2km, and this is not counting the FALARICK 105 - 500mm ATGM up to 5km ...
        2. +1
          April 13 2022 17: 20
          Modification as it were indicated. So don't. As a tank destroyer will not work.
      2. +7
        April 13 2022 08: 30
        Quote: garri-lin
        And how will he exterminate with his fart????

        Is it very difficult for you to google the armor penetration of the 105-mm L7 tank gun?
        1. 0
          April 13 2022 17: 26
          Googled it. So what?? Leopard 1 has a chance in a duel with t 72 ???? Scrap up to 500.
  5. +4
    April 13 2022 05: 31
    I will continue ... We need a MTO base, maintenance technicians, consumables ... As a result, these leopards turn out to be an unforgettable "rubber product No1", you can even not supply an additional BC
    1. +3
      April 13 2022 08: 53
      About the additional BC, I think no one thinks. He would have to shoot the regular one until it burns out.
    2. +2
      April 13 2022 11: 58
      You wanted to say rubber product number 2, because number 1 is a gas mask!
  6. +6
    April 13 2022 05: 46
    Nuuu ... They run fast, the gun is even nothing. Consider no armor. Sell ​​at least some money, good business.
    1. +6
      April 13 2022 09: 56
      Consider no armor.

      Pobol than any modern armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle

      Rolled homogeneous armor + optional, hinged MEXAS modular protection kits
      40+ tons of weight did not just form
  7. +2
    April 13 2022 05: 53
    Are there shells left for them?
    1. 0
      April 13 2022 06: 40
      But why? laughing everything is one on the metal
    2. +3
      April 13 2022 08: 34
      I think like our warehouses are full.
    3. +6
      April 13 2022 09: 16
      Quote: BARKAS
      Are there shells left for them?

      The L7 cannon is put on new and promising light tanks, shells for it are piled up in warehouses and their mass production is underway, nothing needs to be restored.
      There are also ATGMs for him. Ukraine has its own version of Falarik 550 homogeneous armor behind dynamic protection, Israeli Lahat ~ 700 mm, like other countries have ATGMs.
  8. We need such an exhibit, I see it like this, the T-72 runs into the stern of the German reptile, the gun barrel is directed down to the ground.
  9. +2
    April 13 2022 06: 27
    Leopard 1 is needed in museums of military glory. So be careful with the exhibits.
  10. -1
    April 13 2022 06: 29
    In the 2nd World War we burned Panthers .... in the 3rd we will burn Leopards!
  11. +1
    April 13 2022 06: 30
    Germany's offer to Ukroreyhu "Leopards" is a ticket to an erotic journey.
  12. +1
    April 13 2022 06: 42
    It is possible that the Germans, having calculated the costs, and now they have problems with gas, decided that the transfer to the outskirts would be cheaper than cutting at home. And after all, for sure, the Ukrainian army will rip off more money than just for scrap metal! And eat the fish and not freeze the tail! lol
    but the marder, within its competence, is now a rather unpleasant machine.
  13. +1
    April 13 2022 07: 01
    Strange, moreover, Germany cannot advertise its weapons on such a delivery, rather get anti-advertising, because the photos will subsequently disperse around the world. The loss of face, in every sense, seems to be of no importance either to the concern or to the FRG itself. Throwing a dirty and holey RF glove is not a shame.
  14. -1
    April 13 2022 07: 02
    But what about the act of surrender signed by Nazi Germany in 1945?
  15. +5
    April 13 2022 07: 12
    Even such tanks in their position are better than none. I still remember the 2014 reports about the nascent militia of Donbass, when they rolled out the T-55 from the museum and stole the IS-3 from the pedestal, and Nona was the main artillery. By the way, there was a report that the militias captured a serviceable Su-25, but then it somehow died out, and there was no information about the actions of the LDNR aviation.
    Of course, these newest (at the time of their release: waat:) tanks will not survive meetings with the T-72 of any modification, but they can spoil the blood of infantry and light armored vehicles.
    1. +4
      April 13 2022 09: 52
      Even such tanks in their position are better than none.

      The tanks are different - there are big and scary, there are small, but also scary.

      42 tons on tracks, sounds funny only from the couch
      For example, a wheeled armored personnel carrier weighs three times less, and this difference is primarily due to security. How the Leo-1 combat vehicle has its own tactical niche in the conduct of hostilities
  16. 0
    April 13 2022 07: 15
    And the decision-making on the supply of weapons to the Outskirts, does not belong to the very "decision centers" for which our "principled" answer can be given?
  17. -2
    April 13 2022 08: 02
    They would also have tigers with panthers and pasiks 4, they offered to give Krajina.
  18. -2
    April 13 2022 08: 25
    Yes, it's a pity the Tigers disposed of, it could be sold.
  19. +7
    April 13 2022 08: 34
    I don’t understand why there are so many letters on an obvious topic?
    As a mobile firing point, even the heavy tanks of the Second World War have a right to exist. At least the same IS-3, if you put a decent sight on it. And the leopard-1 is no worse than the same T-72, before its modernization. As an offensive weapon - of course not. But there we are not talking about any offensive operations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. There, the main task is to prolong the conflict as much as possible and leave the most destroyed country to the winner.

    In general, rubbing graters about how outdated the tanks of the late 60s and early 70s, in the context of the situation, seems pointless. But to scold the Germans, you can more briefly and specifically.
    1. +1
      April 14 2022 05: 11
      As an infantry escort tank, it will do quite well, especially since it has more ammunition than 125 mm.
  20. +1
    April 13 2022 08: 35
    Logistics, ammunition, spare parts, repairs, crews. Are they really going to fight for a year? By that time, there will be nothing left of the Ukrainian economy, there will be no country.
    1. +5
      April 13 2022 10: 08
      hi
      Are they really going to fight for a year?
      hmm, a year IMHO, not enough.
      Moreover, the Armed Forces of Ukraine believe that it has been fighting for eight years. And there are no plans to finish by 2023 yet.
      1. +1
        April 13 2022 12: 37
        Yes, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are ready to fight, but is Ukraine ready to fight, or rather the scraps of its economy? Winter is coming, but there is no gas, no coal, no fuel oil with a diesel engine, and there will be trouble with food, but actually there is nothing.
        1. +5
          April 13 2022 12: 50
          A couple of years quietly in this mode will stretch.
          Fuel will be given. There will be no problems with products. Industry - yes, will slowly disappear. With Lend-Lease, military needs will be closed (and they didn’t close that).
          But the problem with unemployment is that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will become a normal job.
  21. -1
    April 13 2022 08: 40
    The conceptually light and mobile tank of the Leo-1 and AMX-30B type did not justify itself in the end already during the Cold War. Yes, and in WoT too. It turned out that the tank in the first place should, all of a sudden, tank.

    But Rheinmetall must understand that the war will end sooner or later, and Germany will cancel self-sanctions, and they will go back to the Russian market, and then everyone who helped dill clog the fields of Little and New Russia should already be under our sanctions. Earned a cent on the sale of scrap metal, now lose a whole euro.
  22. +6
    April 13 2022 09: 34
    You have to repeat again. If Europe began defiantly supplying military equipment to Ukraine, why do we continue to supply gas and oil to Europe. Our soldiers are dying from NATO weapons. The jokes are over. The gas needs to be turned off. Doesn't the President understand this?
    1. +2
      April 13 2022 14: 50
      Quote: Bogdanov
      Our soldiers are dying from NATO weapons. The jokes are over. The gas needs to be turned off.

      First of all, it is necessary to block the delivery routes of weapons. And we have some kind of icy silence on this topic. Even Solovyov (!), They talked about this more than once. And then some more wonder why people write bad comments and scold the authorities.
      1. +1
        April 14 2022 05: 13
        How? Throw troops on the Polish border?
        1. +1
          April 14 2022 05: 48
          Launch a missile attack on railway stations on the border with Poland. Also on bridges.
          1. +1
            April 15 2022 05: 44
            Quote: Third District
            Launch a missile attack on railway stations on the border with Poland. Also on bridges.

            Rail tracks can be restored within a few hours. What about bridges? Have you seen many rivers there?
        2. +2
          April 15 2022 03: 37
          Quote: VSO-396
          How? Throw troops on the Polish border?

          Yes, there is already no one to "throw away" .. In the bottom of the barrel, they already collect just anyone. Maybe we’ll just get together from the sofas and “rush” to Berlin? Let's show you how to fight...
  23. +6
    April 13 2022 09: 35
    Pure publicity stunt. "meaningless and useless for Ukraine."

    What is better - to have armor, even outdated, (above the BMP, but below the T90), or have nothing.
    1. +1
      April 13 2022 12: 05
      For modern PTS, there is no difference in the armor of an armored personnel carrier, infantry fighting vehicle or 70mm vld and ~ 200mm spaced armor of the Leopard turret, the tank is for that and the tank must be resistant to the most common enemy fire weapons, di warriors are all oak - it's a tank, let it go on the attack !
      1. +2
        April 13 2022 14: 21
        Nobody refuses light armor because of PTS.

        And the old, but the tank, against the new, but the machine ....
  24. +3
    April 13 2022 09: 51
    We must not forget that a tank is a tank, even if the Shermans or Stuarts would fit them, then our infantry will have a bad time without reinforcement.
    But do not forget that it is unlikely that anyone served them in a timely manner in storage, and it will be a miracle if any tank starts up without dancing with a tambourine.
    1. +1
      April 15 2022 03: 40
      Quote: the47th
      But do not forget that it is unlikely that anyone served them in a timely manner in storage, and it will be a miracle if any tank starts up without dancing with a tambourine.

      Do not confuse the Germans and ours, regarding "storage" ... The Germans will have everything quite clearly, do not worry.
      1. 0
        April 15 2022 11: 48
        It can be seen.
  25. +1
    April 13 2022 09: 56
    I talked at work with two colleagues (they are Germans ..) One on Marder served as a machine gunner with MG ... he said that the car was extremely unreliable and was constantly under repairs (at that time) .... And about Leo (1 or 2 not zanyu) Our head of the IT department (also Friyts) told. He says he was surprised that in the tank "Brains" and software are IBM
  26. 0
    April 13 2022 09: 57
    . Leo currently only shows himself well in World of Tanks. Excellent indicators of dynamics and disguise. Accurate penetrating gun with good stabilization and mixing. But there is practically no armor.
    1. +3
      April 13 2022 12: 13
      There are a lot of versions ..... quite like our T62-72 and T90 and a lot of modifications.
  27. +4
    April 13 2022 10: 04
    As the smart man said

    The same with armored vehicles, even if it is "grandfather" Leo1.
    Now the Armed Forces of Ukraine have received 100 Т72 "for current expenses", if they give Leo1 and Marders, they will be able to bring another hundred armored objects into brigades. And that's not it.
    "Cutting" with armored brigades is not driving jihadmobiles around Syria.
    It's time to cover up the "combat sofas" and "hat-throwing launchers" and start studying the equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine so that, in the event of a call to the RF Armed Forces, they can identify it and have time to make an adequate decision.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      28 May 2022 14: 42

      something like that.
    3. 0
      28 May 2022 14: 44

      visual material
  28. -1
    April 13 2022 10: 24
    Do the Nemchura Tigers or M-IVs restored from the war not remain in warehouses? Well, what can you find in museums? Khokhlov will do, any rubbish, and even decently pay for it)))
    1. +1
      April 13 2022 10: 46
      well, you can even start a tiger from a crooked one, at least there is some kind of plus.
  29. +2
    April 13 2022 10: 44
    Leo 1 is old, it’s not entirely clear how ... the last photos are Canadian leos, hung with protection. The Germans are businessmen after the Second World War. deliveries of weapons to any country in the world. As one of my acquaintances said, the loot will defeat evil) This is a plus in finance, but at the same time it creates problems.
  30. +2
    April 13 2022 10: 45
    There is nothing strange in this ... there is no "help" - it takes money and time to dispose of this junk, otherwise they will dispose of dill on the territory and they will pay more money for it, and along the way also with Ukrainians - this is also in the plans of the Germans ...
  31. +1
    April 13 2022 12: 05
    Forgive me, maybe I'm biased, but these machines are only good as a way to dispose of personnel ... They are essentially just big bulky targets.
  32. +1
    April 13 2022 12: 15
    Polish T72s will also be added there ..... international and the supplier’s dream will be Polish BMP1s.
  33. 0
    April 13 2022 12: 24
    Business and nothing personal. Tanks can be sold, but the fact that they can simply remain at the border as scrap metal is already a problem 404. On the wave of "help" to Ukrainians, Europe drains all unnecessary trash.
  34. +3
    April 13 2022 12: 27
    Quote: Zhevlonenko
    Forgive me, maybe I'm biased, but these machines are only good as a way to dispose of personnel ... They are essentially just big bulky targets.

    Alas, in capable hands, before destruction, these "targets" can do a lot of trouble.
    Any artillery system, especially a mobile one, for example, the same T-34s from pedestals, this is armor and very significant damage.
  35. +1
    April 13 2022 12: 33
    ACS PzH-2000 have already crossed the Polish (Slovak)-Ukrainian border. There is a video on youtube. On the platforms, 18 SGs and 3 more armored personnel carriers were captured.
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. -1
    April 13 2022 12: 38
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzVBi5k--Tw - поставка PzH-2000 на Украину
    1. 0
      April 13 2022 14: 47
      this video is not available
      1. +1
        April 13 2022 22: 02
        Unfortunately it is so. There is such a fight on the forum, not without my participation. After my answers, the video ceased to exist. In fairness, I was mistaken there, at least 3 American armored personnel carriers M113 and 18 SG M109A were shown at the echelon. So the PzH-2000 SG was not there
  38. 0
    April 13 2022 12: 58
    The reasons for the proposal from the Rheinmetall concern are obvious. He wants to get rid of unnecessary property that occupies space and does not have any prospects on the market. At the same time, it is possible not only to get rid of obsolete tanks, but also to make money on it - if the Leopards are transferred on a commercial basis.


    ... about increasing the "combat power of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" is not even worth talking about .... who is war - who is business ...
  39. +1
    April 13 2022 13: 23
    Help is certainly strange, but obsolete tanks are better than none. Leoperds will settle somewhere in Galicia, and from there they will transfer the T-64 and T-72. And you don’t need to repair it, and it seems that the tanks are available. Therefore, everything that passes the border of Ukraine should be destroyed immediately at the stations, preferably in western Ukraine.
  40. -1
    April 13 2022 13: 54
    Quote: Tucan
    Leopard-1" is quite capable of fighting effectively in defensive operations as a lightly armored tank destroyer.


    Where, when and against whom did he successfully fight in defensive actions, let me ask you?
  41. +6
    April 13 2022 15: 21
    Now the L7 can only effectively deal with light armored vehicles that do not have reinforced anti-ballistic armor.

    Well, the darlings have arrived. Both the L7 and the M68 are even today good guns for which there is good ammunition, like the M900A1 and OFL 105 F2. The American takes almost 600 mm. And this is more than the resistance of the VLD T-72B 1989, not to mention the T-72B 1984.
    So I would not write off the Leopard-1, it poses a real threat to our tanks, in the forehead!
    But this is if modern ammunition is given.
    Most likely they will give a Frenchman. Also a dangerous BOPS.

    Leopard 1A5 was created back in the late eighties, and its equipment remained at the level of that time.

    Not news. The equipment of the T-72 is at the same level, except for the monitor of the thermal imaging sight (T-72B3).

    So the patient is more alive than dead.
    And in Ukraine, that T-72, that Leo-1 - they will not differ much in terms of defeat. And in terms of survival, they are the same.

    But don't forget about the tanks of the M-60 family with the M-68 gun. They can also be placed. However, like the armored personnel carrier - M-113.
    In the forests of Kyiv, one Humvee of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a DShK made a rustle.

    Do not underestimate the equipment that the Armed Forces can supply. All this will shoot at our soldiers, at our equipment.
    And whether it be Leopard-1, M-60, T-64 or T-72, this will not make life easier for soldiers.

    And pay with our own money. The ones that were stolen from us.
  42. +1
    April 13 2022 15: 26
    And only after that the tanks will have a chance to get to the front line.

    And die!
  43. +1
    April 13 2022 16: 55
    In Ukraine, after all, tanks are not the main problem. If there is no fuel (and there is already not enough of it and soon there will be no such pace at all) and there are no spare parts, then this is just scrap metal. It's more like an attempt to clean up unnecessary junk.
  44. +2
    April 13 2022 17: 02
    It is clear that they just want to shove unnecessary junk into the swine. More worrying, to be honest, is the promise of the mattress to supply the Taras with long-range complexes. If it really will be some kind of HIMARS or ATACMS, then this is rather disturbing news.
  45. 0
    April 14 2022 08: 42
    Quote: Bradley
    Do not underestimate the equipment that the Armed Forces can supply.


    Technique itself does not fight. Trained and coordinated crews are needed. It is not a fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will have enough time to recruit them.
    Several dozen tanks, not even obsolete, will not make the weather. How many MBTs did the Armed Forces have at the beginning of the conflict - so what? Now I have to beg from the "partners" laughing
    Tank duels are not the rule, rather the exception. With the dominance of the Russian Aerospace Forces in the sky, all these "panzirvagens" will not live long. They will turn into scrap metal at an accelerated pace, despite their modern ammunition.
  46. 0
    April 14 2022 10: 33
    The Germans will not officially supply anything, much less donate.
    Only if the supply is under contract. And then, if, as it were, privately (firms).
    Real politicians (as well as the authorities) have long stated that they will not do this.
    And the media and TV show clowns have a lot to say.
  47. The comment was deleted.
  48. 0
    April 14 2022 21: 59
    Diesel engines can then be used in the national economy
  49. 0
    April 15 2022 12: 26
    Yes, they hesitated - although Leo burns well
  50. 0
    April 15 2022 12: 43
    I wonder when the Messerschmidts will start delivering?
  51. 0
    April 15 2022 13: 16
    There is one unpleasant moment. Now Ukraine is legalizing foreign mercenaries as “its” soldiers. And German Nazis may well be familiar with “domestic” technology. Or it's easy to relearn. The same applies to everyone who served according to NATO standards. As for limited performance characteristics, the Su-76m did not shine with them either. But 1942 was largely pulled out thanks to her. In addition to tanks, our army has infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, jeeps, and trucks. There is infantry. Is it possible to use a “hopelessly outdated weapon” against them? What if you bury a leopard at a city crossroads? Will it be easy to knock it off? For humanitarian reasons, we are not destroying railway roads to the west. But in vain. It doesn’t matter how quickly and cheerfully the “crew of the combat vehicle” burns, if before that they manage to kill at least one Russian.
    1. 0
      6 June 2022 16: 56
      Are you kidding me now? What adequate German Tankist will go into battle on an obviously disastrous mission on a Leopard1. Even if he manages to fire the first shot, after a few seconds he will respond with a crowbar from another tank or, worse, an ATGM. And as far as I remember, Chrysanthemums were sent there too.
  52. The comment was deleted.
  53. 0
    April 18 2022 09: 41
    There will be metal to be melted down. Gayropean suckers.
  54. 0
    15 May 2022 09: 04
    The Leopard 1 MBT has been developed since the mid-fifties and entered service with the German Army in 1965.
    Yes, not that old, T-72 for example 1973
    quite a serious vehicle for supporting infantry, especially in capable hands. A lot of things can cause us trouble. Therefore, of course, it is better to destroy it along the way.
  55. 0
    19 May 2022 08: 54
    Ukrainians give an idea, for those mobilized, look through the profile of WoT and purple statues who have 60% of victories on Leo, put your Leopard on this. Let them drag...
  56. 0
    1 June 2022 09: 02
    I think there are old tankers here, give me an answer: starting the engine of a tank that was not serviced by you and firing a cannon “somewhere” is not the same thing as fighting, is it? How soon will an experienced user of Soviet technology be able to do this?