SAM "Buk": what Ukraine lacks so much

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Today, in reports from Ukraine, without exaggeration, we hear this name more often than any other related to air defense. Moreover, on both sides of the front.


The Buk anti-aircraft missile system, work on which began exactly 50 years ago, is still successfully fulfilling the tasks assigned to it. And it is, without exaggeration, one of the most effective means of air defense of our army. And Ukrainian too, so it is not surprising that the hunt for the Buk is on both sides.



Of course, during all this time, the Buk did not stand still. And from the air defense system that was put into service in 1980, what is today in service with the Russian army, namely the Buk-M3, put into service in 2016, are very different from each other.

36 years is still quite a lot. The fact that in these years five fundamental modifications that increase the capabilities of the complex “fit in” indicates that the work was carried out very, very hard.

"Buk" in the armies


Today we will not consider all modifications of the Buk, but only those that take part in the special operation on the territory of Ukraine. These are the Buk-M1 of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the air defense systems of the Russian army, that is, the Buk-M2 and Buk-M3.

In principle, so much has already been said about these complexes that almost everything will be a repetition to a certain extent. However, it is quite a reasonable question: why after 50 years (almost 50 years) the complex has not only not become obsolete and retired, but, on the contrary, its relevance is still great.

In general, it is worth noting that the air defense system, if it is a decent complex, is a very long-playing thing. The same American Hawk has gone through so many wars and is still a competitor to our S-125 in countries with a limited military budget.

So the main thing here is timely upgrades and modifications.


Actually, with the "Buk" came out the same story.

Back in 1980, a slightly different Buk, which is in operation today, was put into service. More precisely, such a "Buk" is at the disposal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (which does not make it less dangerous). But in fact, this is an air defense system of the last century.

It is clear that today, on our part, Buk of previous generations are also participating in the special operation, and even (possibly) Buk M1-2, a certain number of vehicles are still in service. But even the Buk M2 has as much a clearer advantage over the Buk M1 as the T-90 tank will be better tank T-54.

Different technological generations, different hardware base.

It is clear that we cannot compare the Buk M3 100% with the rest, simply because many performance characteristics have the corresponding necks. However, what is there is enough for a calm understanding of the issue.

SAM "Buk": what Ukraine lacks so much

"Buk-M3" is "Buk" in name only. Actually a new car. The evolution of the same command post from 9S470 to 9S510M is an eternity. From 18 channels to 36. That is, KP M-3 can "lead" up to 36 targets.

The Buk-M3 division (an air defense brigade has 2-4 divisions in its structure), as well as divisions armed with older models, consists of a command post, a surveillance radar and three anti-aircraft missile batteries. The battery, in turn, consists of two self-propelled firing systems (SDA) and one launcher-loader.

But everything in the division is different from the divisions with Buk M-1 and M-2.

New command post 9S510M. New radar 9S18M3. The detection range of air targets with an EPR of 1 square meter increased from 120 km (at the Buk M-1 radar) to 160 km, and the transition to a new element base significantly (according to the developers) increased the noise immunity of the radar.

So, we see further, we see more, we operate faster.

Further changes in the SOU. A few words about the M1: it all started with the 9S18 Dome radar, a very slow radar with a very small field of view, from 30 to 40 degrees. And in the all-round view mode, the time rate of the view reached 18 seconds, which is actually an eternity. Plus, with its own M1 radar, it can track only one target, pointing two out of four missiles at it.

Extremely inefficient without a command post and a base radar battery. How can one not remember the Malaysian Boeing once again ...

The new SOU 9A317M is much better. The radar is modern, with a phased antenna array, a viewing angle of 90 degrees in azimuth and 70 degrees in elevation. And to conduct independently "M3" can up to 6 targets.

In addition, the new smaller 9M317M2 missiles made it possible to increase the number of launchers from 4 to 6. And the 9A316M launcher contains 12 more missiles (instead of 8 for its predecessor ROM). That is, a pair of SOU and PU is capable of launching 18 missiles in combat mode. It is clear that the launcher does not have its own radar, therefore the guidance and control of missiles is carried out by the SDA and the command post.


We see that a modern Buk M3 battalion has an ammunition load of 72 missiles. A similar division on the Buk M1 - 48 missiles. And at the same time, the M3 division can fire at 36 targets, not 18.

In addition, new missiles do not require radar tracking throughout the entire flight path. The active homing head of the 9M317M2 missile makes it possible to capture a target at a distance of about 35 km and self-correct the flight. At distances from 70 to 35 km, until the moment of confident capture of the target, the missile will go according to the commands emanating from the command post and radar.

In fact, there was a certain division into “before” and “after”. After the Buk-M3, the advantage of the new complex and the new 9M317M and 9M317MA missiles became obvious. "Old" missiles from modifications M1 and M2 new "Buk" can not use.

Well, the main difference between Buk-M3 and Buk-M2. The speed of targets for which the air defense system can effectively work out. For the Buk-M2, the maximum target speed is 1100 m/s, which makes it possible to hit ballistic missiles with a launch range of up to 200-250 km, and the Buk-M3 can intercept targets flying at speeds up to 3000 m/s, which corresponds to ballistic missiles with a launch range of up to 1000-1100 km.
As they say, feel the difference.



And here is the practice


Of course, here the word “finally” is not entirely ethical, we could easily do without such a check. However, the planes and UAVs shot down in Ukraine confirm the high reputation of the Buk air defense system.

However, the Buk-M2E quite successfully showed its capabilities in repelling cruise missile attacks in Syria. And, despite the "high" level of training of the Syrian air defense, a sufficiently large number of missiles did not reach their goals.

Reports from Ukraine also include reports that Russian anti-aircraft gunners regularly shoot down a few aircraft and Drones APU. Naturally, not only Buks are operating, but this complex makes a significant contribution to the protection of airspace from Ukrainian aircraft.

At the same time, the Ukrainian side does not indulge its citizens with more or less confirmed victories, despite the fact that it had a fairly decent amount of Buk-M1 at its disposal. It turns out that "Fedot, but not the one?".

Exactly. The 9M38M1 rocket was very good for its time, but by now it is still radically outdated. The criticism of the Buk-M1, which was expressed by many Russian military experts, was justified, but for Ukraine it was fatal.

In fact, all components of the complex were Russian-designed and manufactured in Russia. OKB "Innovator" named after Lyulyev, part of the Almaz-Antey concern, the developer of these systems, went further and further in their work. The Ukrainian side was deprived of the opportunity to improve its air defense systems, since it did not have access to technical documentation, its specialists and material and technical base.

Well, everything was not very good with money in Ukraine.

As a result, a very sad situation has developed.

Therefore, the old Buk-1Ms of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were forced to try to oppose something to the Russian Su-30s and Su-34s, while the Ukrainian MiG-29s and Su-27s did not feel very well under the guns of the Buk-M2 and M3 ".

Hence the not-so-happy reports. Of course, if you just indiscriminately lie in the style of Dr. Goebbels, then yes, the losses of the Russian Aerospace Forces are simply stunning. One "Ghost of Kyiv" was worth something. But if we talk about losses seriously, then everything is sad for the Ukrainians.

The old Buk missiles and no less old S-300PS cannot intercept the more advanced Caliber and Iskanders (especially the latter), and because of this they are simply destroyed. Next comes the move aviation, which performs its tasks, being completely unconstrained by air defense actions, with the possible exception of low altitudes, where it is possible to get hit by a Stinger.

At the same time, the more modern air defense systems of Russia (and not only the Buks) quite calmly cope with all the attacks that the Ukrainian military is trying to carry out.


And today we can say that the “invincible and invulnerable” Turkish “Bayraktar” is, in principle, from the same airfield with the “Ghost of Kyiv”. It goes very well, especially since the device turned out to be stupid and often flies, even after it falls under the radiation of the radar antenna.

We will talk about the collapse of the Bayraktar legend in the next article, but today we can say with confidence that this is really a legend.

Tell me, what about the last skirmish between Armenia and Azerbaijan in Karabakh? And everything is simple there. There were no Buks. None. Moreover, both sides confirm this. And what the air defense of Karabakh had at its disposal was, in the worst case, the ancient "Wasp", "Circle" and "Cube", it is not known in what condition.

Who hit then? "Tor-M2KM" of the Armed Forces of Armenia. And if the Armenian side introduced Buk-M2E into Karabakh, then I'm afraid Azerbaijan would not get off with one downed plane.

***


If you look at everything as a whole, then the picture is as follows: the Russian army has a solid and modern anti-aircraft missile system "Buk-M2 / M3", capable of solving the problem of protecting units and subunits both on the march and in the front line, moreover , do this over the entire range of heights.

However, the presence in the air defense of the Russian army of a large number of frankly outdated Buk-M1 systems, which in modern conditions, as shown by the Ukrainian side, cannot effectively protect their troops, they cannot protect themselves should be considered a minus in the situation. And something needs to be done about it. And what - only one thing: the re-equipment of all brigades that are armed with obsolete air defense systems for more modern equipment.

This is the case, by the way, when greed and economy are not appropriate.

If you look globally, then the development of air defense systems in Russia is moving in the right direction. In general, when development does not stand still, it's great. And when it is standing, then on the example of Ukrainian soldiers, in the sky you see only other people's planes, which does not bring anything good.
57 comments
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  1. +21
    28 March 2022 04: 08
    Of course, if you just indiscriminately lie in the style of Dr. Goebbels, then yes, the losses of the Russian Aerospace Forces are simply stunning.

    Ukraine said that XNUMX out of XNUMX cruise missiles launched in one day were allegedly shot down yesterday. The percentage of cruise missiles shot down is declared to be unprecedentedly high, so Goebbels nervously smokes on the sidelines.

    By the way, there is data from a friend from Vinnitsa.
    A couple of days ago, the headquarters of the Ukrainian Air Force was hit by six cruise missiles. Ukraine said it shot down "some of them." There are rumors in the city that the APU was allegedly shot down:
    a) three missiles;
    b) two rockets.
    There was no evidence that at least one was shot down by the Ukrainian side. Neither according to Vinnitsa news, nor according to the central ones. The Air Force headquarters was located in one of the shops of the Vinnitsa aircraft repair plant (still Soviet).
    1. +16
      28 March 2022 04: 32
      There is such news in the course - one hostess shot down a Russian drone with a can of pickles. I went out onto the balcony, then a drone flies by, she puts a jar of tomatoes into it. He fell, with already jumped out and trampled on him.
      And these choppers KR five pieces at a time.
      In general, language is also a weapon.
      1. +23
        28 March 2022 04: 58
        Quote: YOUR
        In general, language is also a weapon.

        As well as painkillers for those who are afraid of real life.
        I have my former employer in Ukraine, a serious businessman, on Facebook he praises everything about the "Phantom of Kyiv".
        I write to him in the comments, they say, turn on your brain, think about why Zelya asks NATO on her knees to close the sky, if in this very sky the "Ghost of Kyiv" reigns supreme? So let him "close the sky."
        In response, mats and threats, apparently, there is nothing more to say.
        1. +8
          28 March 2022 06: 17
          In response, mats and threats, apparently, there is nothing more to say.

          smile
          It is very easy to communicate with such people if you look at mate and threats from a scientific point of view ... as a rule, narrow-minded people have a mate language at a very low level and use various variations of mate extremely weakly, and there are a great many of them.
          Therefore, turn on composure, open the great and mighty Russian language and shut up your opponent with a salvo fire of informal expressions.
          I am sure a couple of such lessons will put an impolite opponent in his place.
          1. +1
            28 March 2022 09: 21
            But even the Buk M2 has as much a clearer advantage over the Buk M1 as the T-90 tank will be better than the T-54 tank.

            Well, a lot depends on the level of training of the "crew" ... as the same Syrian experience shows.
            1. +2
              28 March 2022 11: 08
              Well, everything was not very good with money in Ukraine.
              Yes, but it’s normal with money there, billionaires are born like pies are baked. Well, billionaires don’t cut at all in air defense systems. request
          2. 0
            29 March 2022 02: 40
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Therefore, turn on composure, open the great and mighty Russian language and shut up your opponent with a salvo fire of informal expressions.

            Thank you for the useful advice, dear colleague, I will cook this for him for dessert.
            In the meantime, in response to threats, I politely asked if he had already taken a photo in a kosovorotka (he is a city deputy, and in the photo he is wearing an embroidery)? To understand the situation - he is a bandit from the 90s, eventually got rich, began to gain respectability, went into politics. First I had to change my tracksuit for trousers and a jacket, and then the jacket for an embroidered shirt.
        2. +5
          28 March 2022 11: 50
          Quote: Comrade
          In response, mats and threats, apparently, there is nothing more to say.

          Matyuki, I hope, on the sovereign move? wink
          And then after all, at one time in Ukraine they actively forced the rejection of the mat.

          But in fact, it turned out that at the slightest excitement, the whole language is instantly forgotten, and the Russian mat climbs. Moreover, in the most primitive form - like small children.
          1. 0
            29 March 2022 02: 28
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Matyuki, I hope, on the sovereign move?

            No matter how. He scratches in Russian, as he breathes.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            climbs Russian mat And in the most primitive forms

            That's right, things don't go beyond the three-letter message.
            I also thought, why are you, Seryoga, cursing, you stop being a European and become a "Muscovite".
      2. 0
        29 March 2022 09: 17
        It's coming out that the media only fights with fakes, and what else remains for them, only to lie brazenly and cynically.
    2. +6
      28 March 2022 06: 19
      My friend is sadly silent, no one knocked anything down ..., it didn’t work out for a holiday, I would have jumped, I would have immediately found out about the win! And they have such a military expert Zhdanov, who finally said that someone shot down a rocket from a machine gun!
    3. +3
      28 March 2022 15: 56
      From any Ukrainian "Buk" Russia will make "BAM-Buk" ..
  2. +7
    28 March 2022 04: 36
    The Buk-M3 is a fine car, that's true. However, there are still relatively few of them in our troops. "Aunt Vika" suggests that "at least 60 units", so the previous models remain workhorses. Although, they seem to do a pretty good job.

    Well, I would also like to wish a good cover for these complexes from the air defense of the SV. All the same, the fight against small drones and loitering ammunition is rather their area of ​​​​responsibility. It will be expensive to spend an expensive Buk rocket on this trifle.
    1. +1
      29 March 2022 09: 23
      And where are our modernized "SM Pantsirs", have they already begun to enter our troops, or are they still not there ???
      1. 0
        April 3 2022 15: 58
        Quote: sgrabik
        And where are our modernized "SM Pantsirs", have they already begun to enter our troops, or are they still not there ???

        The question is very timely.

        In addition, at one time a lot was written about Derevatsiya-Air Defense, while it was emphasized that it was imprisoned just against UAVs.
        That would be to test it in combat conditions!
  3. +8
    28 March 2022 05: 05
    Yeah ... It’s enough to understand who the author is after reading a couple of lines ... Especially if such a generalist, as always, shines with knowledge. Though it can and "apichatki".
    Different technological generations, different hardware base.
    Maybe ELECTRONIC? No, of course, if the equipment and the electronic base in the current realities are now one and the same ... Well, then oh. Read a couple more lines
    The battery, in turn, consists of twoself-propelled firing systems (SDI)
    For some reason, Wikipedia says self-propelled firing system (SOU) , well, it’s clear they wrote Romin’s article without even really understanding what they were writing. They are so funny on wikis ... In general, after reading a couple of paragraphs of Romina's article, I realized that for real knowledge about the BUK air defense system, it is better to read the original material, and not in retelling, especially of such a "well-known specialist". For those who are really interested, I found https://missilery.info/missile/bukm3, I recommend it. By the way, I just started reading the article here at this link http://nevskii-bastion.ru/buk-m3/#:~:text=%D0%92%20%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%81%D1% 82%D0%B0%D0%B2%20%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%20( %D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0)%209%D0%9A317%D0%9C,9% D0%90316%D0%9C%20%D1%81%2012%20%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%BC% D0%B8%20%D1%83%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BB%D1%8F%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B%D0%BC% D0%B8 . What I recommend to others...
    1. +4
      28 March 2022 06: 22
      Maybe ELECTRONIC?

      Old designs have tubes, triodes, pentodes... tube blocks, amplifiers, frequency blocks... smile
      1. 0
        28 March 2022 09: 57
        Magnetron amplifiers...
      2. +1
        28 March 2022 10: 25
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Old designs have tubes, triodes, pentodes... tube blocks, amplifiers, frequency blocks...

        Quote: Not the fighter
        Magnetron amplifiers...

        Of course, I will surprise you a little, well, this is radio electronics, although earlier, in the distant 60-70s, they were simply called radio components. Then, already in the 80s, I remember how the word radio-electronic parts was introduced in our country - I ask you to issue the below-named radio-electronic parts from the warehouse to replenish spare parts ... But the various products that they include can be called equipment. Well, even if anything, it was not the hardware base that changed, but the elementary one when transistors, microcircuits and others began to take the place of triodes, pentodes and other things.
  4. +3
    28 March 2022 05: 29
    SAM "Buk": what Ukraine lacks so much

    In 2008, Ukraine transferred the Buk-M1 air defense systems repaired with the help of Russia to Georgia. At least one complex was captured by Russian troops. Now probably elbows bite.
  5. +8
    28 March 2022 06: 23
    At the same time, the more modern air defense systems of Russia (and not only the Buks) quite calmly cope with all the attacks that the Ukrainian military is trying to carry out.

    Just a tip... ok so... think before you write.
    BUK copes with its tasks ... but, POINTS U, they fly and kill, not only on the territory of the republics, but also in Russia. A couple of times, just ... but it was.
    So the air defense has or had some flaws ... I hope the experts are working on / correcting this.
    1. +4
      28 March 2022 07: 30
      Quote: rocket757
      BUK copes with its tasks ... but, POINTS U, they fly and kill, not only on the territory of the republics, but also in Russia. A couple of times, just ... but it was

      According to the sources that are available, they are more likely to shoot down "in the wrong places", and too late. Missile fragments fall on buildings, and cluster warheads also fly where they should not. Cassette warheads generally open at an altitude of more than 2 km, which is why they need to be shot down as early as possible.
      1. +2
        28 March 2022 07: 54
        That's why I wrote that FAULTS.
        Something with intelligence, airspace control, early warning.
        High-velocity, ballistic missile, difficult target... that's understandable. Moreover, launched from a relatively close distance, with a short flight time, the target is difficult ... no one knows how to defend against them 100% ... i.e. there is a goal / task for our designers, because our opponents have such weapons.
        1. 0
          29 March 2022 00: 33
          That's for sure !!!
          Our problems with AWACS !!!!
          There is no control over the territory of Ukraine - there is nothing to control!!!
          There are no proper AWACS aircraft that could provide timely detection of OTR launches ....
          This is our weak point.
          1. +1
            29 March 2022 07: 46
            Let's just say that the problems did not appear yesterday, everyone knows about them, the process of correction is underway ... now, we need to level the problem with the means that are available.
  6. +1
    28 March 2022 06: 24
    Scholz and Duda should think - if m1 is replaced by m3, then we follow them. Ask about the absence of genocide of the Russian people.
    dogdogdeath
  7. +2
    28 March 2022 06: 44
    At the same time, the Ukrainian side does not indulge its citizens with more or less confirmed victories, despite the fact that it had a fairly decent amount of Buk-M1 at its disposal. It turns out that "Fedot, but not the one?".

    It's not just modifications. The organization of air defense as a whole is important, when the Buk is only a part of other systems. Gaining air superiority. The presence of high-precision weapons that can hit enemy air defense systems at a distance.
    1. +1
      28 March 2022 10: 11
      Quote: riwas
      It's not just modifications. The organization of air defense as a whole is important, when the Buk is only a part of other systems. Gaining air superiority. The presence of high-precision weapons that can hit enemy air defense systems at a distance.

      I will support, the point is not in an outdated complex, but in the absence of an integral system, first of all, radar detection. And even so, the outdated complexes remain quite dangerous, they drank our blood during the action from ambushes. The Su-34 seems to have been shot down just from the Buk. Not without reason, even on a single launcher, Buk was hit by Iskander. They cannot be underestimated. But first of all, take out the radar.
  8. 0
    28 March 2022 06: 52
    "It is clear that today the Buk of previous generations, and even (possibly) the Buk M1-2, are also participating in the special operation on our part"

    M3 is definitely there. Met on.photo.
  9. +4
    28 March 2022 06: 53
    Hmm.
    The trouble is, since the shoemaker bakes pies.
    Maybe let people write articles about technology, at least not specialists, but who understand what they are writing about?
  10. +5
    28 March 2022 06: 58
    And if, in essence, then the old Ukrainian Buks also manage quite well for themselves - our aircraft does not fly beyond the Dnieper. Yes, and we have to spend expensive Iskanders on the launchers themselves.
    1. +3
      28 March 2022 09: 14
      I think so, Iskander's strike on Buk, most likely not even a military necessity, but a flick on the nose and a warning to our Western "partners". The destruction of a highly mobile point target by a ballistic missile is not khukhr-mukhr.
  11. -1
    28 March 2022 07: 01
    SAM "Buk": what Ukraine lacks so much
    Maybe they don't have enough money?
  12. +3
    28 March 2022 07: 34
    A UAV is good that it shoots down a BUK, but the price is different, it makes no sense to shoot down a penny UAV with an expensive missile.
    1. +1
      28 March 2022 08: 20
      Quote: andrey))))))
      it makes no sense to shoot down a penny UAV with an expensive missile.

      And if you use the "old" 9M38 against UAVs? "Repair" ... and in business!
      PS Is "Bayraktar" worth a "penny"? what stop
    2. +5
      28 March 2022 10: 09
      UAV is good that shoots down BUK but the price is different
      The lives of soldiers not killed by this UAV are more expensive.
  13. 0
    28 March 2022 08: 00
    Beech under the cover of Thors and Shells is an excellent complex, even M1, especially against fairly old Ukrainian aircraft.
  14. +1
    28 March 2022 09: 14
    ..... at the same time, the Ukrainian MiG-29 and Su-27 did not feel very well under the guns of the Buk-M2 and M3.
    And how will they be targeted, are they fans of listening to open source software? Didn't they confuse anything with the scope? With Su-24m, Su-25? Do we read the tactics of the Air Force IA of the Armed Forces of Ukraine? It has not changed since the times of the USSR, because tactics are rewritten when new aircraft are adopted, or when their performance characteristics change. Moreover, if there were improvements to the radar, then the detection range of the CC is clearly increasing, the air defense missile system is shifting, and not decreasing. I went to VK to Roman Skomorokhov. He hides his / education, if any. Favorite TV shows: Dom-2 (both on love ), Activities: moderator of the site topwar.ru. You have fun in VO.
    1. 0
      28 March 2022 12: 02
      Quote: lusya
      It has not changed since the days of the USSR, because tactics are rewritten when new aircraft are adopted, or when their performance characteristics change.

      Not only. Tactics can also change while maintaining the types of their aircraft and their performance characteristics - due to a change in tactics by the enemy or the appearance of new types of weapons. A classic example is Vietnam, when US aviation had to drastically change tactics after the advent of air defense systems. The Yankees' cars remained the same, but the tactics changed.
      And in the same regions, they had to change tactics even without changing the types and performance characteristics of cars (their own and the enemy) - the famous return of the Yankees to the BVB with massive retraining of pilots.
      1. 0
        28 March 2022 16: 49
        What samples? Vietnam got Soviet air defense. Which ("ON" "NG", Hawk S-75, 25, Cube, Krug) was already at the CE large-diameter pipeline for both NATO and the Department of Internal Affairs, and even echeloned, with already painted tactics for overcoming it, breaking through ..... The bicycle was invented and worked out not in the regions of Papuan, but in "civilian" theaters. I'm actually talking about IA. And there is no reception against scrap, at least change it, don’t change it. It only remained to do, to adopt something better. Or carry out PPR. Example. There was a brochure in the early 80s on the methodology for maintaining the MiG-23MLD and F-16 VB, in which it was written in garlic that the MiG-23 was inferior to the F-16, except at supersonic speeds. And at the end it is written that, given the high moral and psychological qualities of the Soviet MiG-23MLD pilot, it is possible to successfully conduct airborne combat with ..... APU is not Toyota carts with DShK, KPV, ZGU, MANPADS, and not Vietnam, although ancient.
        1. 0
          28 March 2022 18: 16
          Quote: lusya
          The bicycle was invented and worked out not in the regions of Papuan, but in "civilian" theaters. I'm actually talking about IA.

          Since the IA in Vietnam had a scrapping of tactics worked out in civilian theaters. When it suddenly became clear that the generally accepted tactics of the RVV operation from medium distances does not work in practice. And the previously rejected BVB suddenly became relevant, so they had to start mass retraining of crews for new tactics.
          At the same time, Vietnam did not have any new types of equipment - everything was the same as on the ETTD, even a generation older.
          1. 0
            30 March 2022 21: 45
            What? Topic ЗRK "Buk": hUkraine misses him so much. And not VB MiG-21PF, 15,17, F-4, 100,102. Do not crumble a loaf there. This is generally neither to the village nor to .... << ..... at the same time, the Ukrainian MiG-29 and Su-27 did not feel very well at gunpoint "Buk-M2" and "M3">>
            1. 0
              31 March 2022 00: 51
              Quote: lusya
              What? The topic of the Buk air defense system: what Ukraine lacks so much. And not VB MiG-21PF, 15,17, F-4, 100,102. Do not crumble a loaf there.

              Let me remind you of your thesis:
              Quote: lusya
              It has not changed since the days of the USSR, because tactics are rewritten when new aircraft are adopted, or when their performance characteristics change.

              I just noted that tactics can be rewritten without adopting new aircraft or changing performance characteristics.
  15. 0
    28 March 2022 09: 18
    Enough with these banderlogs, they've already given up, they won't get anything in the near future. Well, we just have to analyze the work of our air defense and draw conclusions for the future and carry out modernization.
  16. 0
    28 March 2022 09: 20
    "Beech ... lead ... maybe" yes, at least 100500. to fire as much as he can - that's the main question. "such and such on purpose, such and such guidance." the writer of the note needs to tighten up the materiel.
    1. 0
      28 March 2022 12: 26
      shoot as much as he can - that's the main question
      As the article explicitly says:
      We see that a modern Buk M3 battalion has an ammunition load of 72 missiles. A similar division on the Buk M1 - 48 missiles. And at the same time, the M3 division can fire at 36 targets, not 18.
      and the developer's website confirms these figures, albeit with a different total number of missiles:
      At the same time, the development of a new multifunctional radar station, the introduction of new technical solutions in the radar information processing system made it possible to increase the number of target channels of the complex to 36 and significantly increase noise immunity. The possibility of simultaneous shelling of 36 targets required an increase in the transportable ammunition, which for the new complex is 120 missiles ready for launch: six missiles are now located on the SDA, and 12 on the launcher (in two independent packages with a fixed launch angle of 45 degrees).
  17. +1
    28 March 2022 09: 46
    This is the case, by the way, when greed and economy are not appropriate.
    One can agree with the inappropriateness of saving on security. And greed, by the way, is inappropriate in general, and even more so in this text. Or is it a hint that the Buk-M1 remains in the army due to the fact that someone has a personal benefit from this, then it would be necessary to turn around: this is an article about air defense, and not about flirting with hints.
  18. 0
    28 March 2022 18: 08
    On the video of our military, I have repeatedly noticed the Strela-10 air defense system, is it relevant today? I thought it was removed from service, is it a modernized arrow?
  19. 0
    28 March 2022 20: 02
    bravo to the author, accessible, reasoned, with a good style
  20. 0
    28 March 2022 21: 36
    "SAM "Buk": what Ukraine lacks so much" And thank God that is not enough! There are now such ur ... dy in power that they cannot be given any sharp objects at all. Just a straitjacket and enhanced drug therapy. What our army has to do now.
  21. 0
    30 March 2022 08: 01
    The author swims in Buki like a wild boar in oranges.
    Buk-M1 is in service and takes part in the NWO, watch the video in the VK/MORF telegram and the media.
    There are also a lot of mistakes with TTX.
  22. 0
    April 2 2022 12: 57
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: lusya
    What? The topic of the Buk air defense system: what Ukraine lacks so much. And not VB MiG-21PF, 15,17, F-4, 100,102. Do not crumble a loaf there.

    Let me remind you of your thesis:
    Quote: lusya
    It has not changed since the days of the USSR, because tactics are rewritten when new aircraft are adopted, or when their performance characteristics change.

    I just noted that tactics can be rewritten without adopting new aircraft or changing performance characteristics.

    And I wrote that the tactics (this is not a brochure) were written a long time ago, and they don’t change them (as they once did, hundreds of inserts in the MiG-21bis RLE), but they apply what has been written, starting from the planning stage of the database, depending on the opposition of the opposing side. Again. Vietnam in the 60s and 70s is not Europe. It's like comparing the Air Force and Air Defense of Israel with Ukraine now, in relation to the written tactics. It would be dreary to fight with the Jews, but according to the same textbook. Therefore, in the prescribed tactics, in order to achieve knowledge base when maintaining a database with the Israeli Armed Forces, with given values ​​of probabilities and mathematical expectations, it is necessary to plan the use of a tactical, operational-tact. Nuclear weapons, that is, to sit "on the priest evenly, having washed with mud", gritting your teeth, without crossing the borders. I originally commented on the topic not what you are focusing on. In Vietnam, I had to change both tactics and weapons on the F-4, yes, but this is another (topic).
  23. 0
    April 4 2022 13: 08
    Good people, tell me how effective the AWACS aircraft of the RF Armed Forces are in Ukraine and should they be afraid of something in the sky over Ukraine?
    1. +1
      April 8 2022 08: 35
      Judging by the number of Russian planes and captured pilots shot down in the Ukrainian sky, one should be afraid of MANPADS, SAMs and air-to-air missiles from Ukrainian fighters ... Which for some reason are still flying ...
      1. 0
        April 15 2022 00: 26
        Shoot down AWACS with MANPADS?
  24. +1
    April 8 2022 08: 33
    And today we can say that the “invincible and invulnerable” Turkish “Bayraktar” is, in principle, from the same airfield with the “Ghost of Kyiv”. Fits great, especially since the device turned out to be dull and often flies, even after it falls under the radiation of the radar antenna.

    - Decipher the highlighted? It is completely incomprehensible! lol
  25. 0
    27 May 2022 20: 38
    "what is so lacking in Ukraine" Maybe aside from the topic.
    Beech is a wonderful complex. And thank God that is not enough. However, whatever you give there, they gave them such a country. Gas, oil at preferential prices, orders to enterprises, etc.. And as a result - complete ... Not "complexes" are obviously missing there - something else. Maybe they will receive from our aircraft.