Military Review

About man forgot

48

Man and combat vehicle. At different stages of the development of civilization, science in its own way interprets this combination, which forms a single anthropotechnical system. The catastrophes of the second half of the 20th century made us think about the interaction of people and the machines they created. It turned out that often in the design of the machine itself there is a need to adapt to its functions in spite of the physical and psychological capabilities of a person. This contradiction was especially clearly manifested in military technology.

Indeed, only the firepower, security and mobility of military equipment (military equipment) objects are still being evaluated. Some experts suggest adding a reliability factor. It is not difficult to notice that the person from this list “fell out”, turned out, as the saying goes, in the role of the fifth wheel in the cart.
It would seem that the general line of improvement of military equipment confirms what has been said: electronic devices already perform many of the functions of a human operator, and combat robots are being developed. However, the practice of the daily activities of the troops, and especially combat experience, suggests the opposite. In modern war, the role of man increases, and ignoring this leads to disasters in peacetime and heavy losses in wartime.
It is no coincidence that when developing new weapons abroad, the most serious attention is paid to improving the habitability of the OVT and the protection of the crew. For example, in tanks third generation (M1 "Abrams", "Leopard-2", "Merkava"), these indicators are improved in comparison with the previous models several times.

In the Soviet Army, the “human factor” in words was always assigned a decisive role in the armed struggle. Dozens of scientific papers have been written on this topic. However, as often happens here, in practice, the interests of the people in creating military equipment were ignored. In particular, the requirements for habitability of COT were developed and adopted only in the 1980-s. They are set out in twelve medical and technical requirements of the Ministry of Defense (MP MO), 28 regulatory and technical documents, and 48 State Standards.

As you can see, there are enough papers. However, in the samples of combat vehicles in service with the Ground Forces, their requirements are by no means fully met. As a result, a lot of occupational diseases of military personnel were obtained as a result of the use of dangerous equipment to health.
According to one of the documents, “the habitability of military equipment is the living conditions, combat activities and life of the personnel, created during the development (modernization) and production of the facility, ensuring the preservation of health and human health in order to effectively operate the combat weapons and technical equipment of military weapons in specified conditions and climatic conditions. zones (areas). " The above definition gives a general biological (more precisely, medical) presentation. The military-technical aspect of the problem associated with the implementation of medical requirements for the means of ensuring habitability (TSA) and life support (LSS), remained outside the framework of quotations, and the document as a whole. At the same time, it is precisely it that can be considered predominant. Let us try to analyze the main reasons that adversely affect the conditions of the activities of people in military equipment.

First and main can be called appearance weapons mass destruction. Today, despite a number of political statements, the idea of ​​the possibility of using nuclear and chemical weapons is still vivid. This is reflected in the equipment, both here and abroad, of ground forces vehicles using anti-nuclear and chemical protection systems (ESD, PCP). They provide sealing machines, include filtering installations, display devices and automatic control.

In complete isolation from the external environment, the crew and the internal equipment are placed in a limited volume. Equipment whose elements are sources of intense emission of thermal, electromagnetic (including microwave), light and other types of radiation, as well as air pollution (powder, waste, battery gases). The impact on the body of noise, shaking, vibration, harmful impurities in the air, according to numerous studies, adversely affect the combat effectiveness of the weapons complex as a whole.

Tests have shown that with an unsatisfactory microclimate of habitable space, the driving speed decreases by 19 percent, the execution time of the firing mission increases by 35, and the number of misses - by 40 percent. Work in a sealed enclosure, devoid of access to natural light and having a high reflectance of sound, causes mental fatigue in people, which has further negative consequences of a different nature. According to the data obtained at the exercises, due to the deterioration of the condition of people operating in sealed objects, every day an offensive operation leads to a decrease in the combat capability of troops by 7-10 percent.

The second reason. Designers are constantly striving to reduce the vulnerability of military weapons on the battlefield by reducing the size and increasing the thickness of the armor. In particular, the Soviet tank builders brought these parameters to the limit beyond which a person is simply not able to be in a tank.

As the German magazine Soldat und Technik magazine, which analyzed the layout of the T-64 and T-72 tanks in one of its articles, “Russians will be forced to grow a special breed of stunted and strong people for their crews”. In fact, in the seventies, growth restrictions were imposed on the replenishment of tank forces.

There is an increase in the intensity of OBE with various instruments, which leads to a sharp decrease in the free space in the combat vehicle. According to S. Bogdanov, in a modern tank there are about the same number of controls and information display devices as on a spacecraft — more than 200. Only devices aiming and observation - dozens of items. Not easier and driver-mechanics. For example, 13 devices record only the current parameters of the power plant.

Small volumes of workplaces (see table below), prolonged forced stay in cramped conditions in a static posture lead to overstrain of certain muscle groups and nerve cells that innervate them - therefore, fatigue is rapidly progressing. For example, the limitation of mobility for three days leads to a decrease in the performance of the crew by 30 percent. After long marches, most drivers complain of general fatigue and severe pain in the calf muscles.

Third reason due to the growth of firepower (caliber and rate of fire) weapons. Gunpowder changed, and the concentration of highly toxic components in the composition of the powder gases increased. As a result, the crew was simply in an intolerable environment. Shooting from all types of weapons of infantry fighting vehicles in sealing conditions after a minute can cause poisoning of half of the personnel. Experience in hostilities in Afghanistan showed that after 10-15 152-mm self-propelled howitzer shots, some calculations were difficult to shoot because of the high concentration of toxic substances. According to our data, for the period from 1982 to 1984, the year in the Armed Forces there were 1225 only officially registered cases of poisoning with powder gases.
From the editors. There are even isolated cases of poisoning by the powder gases of the crews of the T-64 tanks when firing from a loose barrel.

Next reason associated with the creation of powerful engines and the further growth of the mobility of OBE. Technically advanced machines have the potential to march 1500 kilometers or more. However, the greater the pace of the march and its duration, the more intense the noise and shaking effect on the crew. The level of stable acoustic noise in armored vehicles exceeds the standards for 10-35, and in the cabs of engineering vehicles - at 20 decibels. Speech intelligibility in a tank intercom is reduced by 5-25 percent.

Quite unusual effect on the central nervous system is the fact of the movement of AHT in space. Under the action of inertial forces, alternating accelerations, vibrations, shocks, the organs and tissues of a person are subjected to displacements and shocks. Increases the load on the vascular system. Sometimes it causes changes in the regional circulation.

Workplace vibration may be close to one of the vibrational frequencies of our internal organs. 11 range ... 35 hertz (especially 16 hertz) people endure with difficulty. They have involuntary urination, pain in the internal organs, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, they lose consciousness, the rhythm is disturbed, or even the heartbeat stops. Here are the usual effects of low-frequency vibrations characteristic of tracked vehicles. With the systematic effects of vibration, individual soldiers form sand and stones in the kidneys and bladder.

Finally, the last of the reasons under consideration associated with the multifunctionality of OVT, the need to solve a large number of tasks in a short time. The development of built-in automated control systems has led to the complication of algorithms and the growth in the volume of functions performed by crews. There are information overload. The complexity of information models and the number of display facilities with which they are implemented are not always adequate to the capabilities of a person.

When there is an excess of information, emotional tension is exacerbated due to the need to quickly perceive it, recode it and implement response actions. As a result, attention is dulled, the functional mobility of nervous processes decreases, the effect on hormonal mechanisms and vegetative reactions increases.

Mental labor, which is today the main one for the overwhelming majority of military specialists, is characterized by hypokinesia, physical inactivity and nervous tension. This leads to functional disorders of the cardiovascular and central nervous systems, contributes to the development of coronary heart disease.

Of course, the above-discussed causes and factors of the negative impact of existing OBE samples on a person do not determine the whole list of issues to be studied on the problem of habitability. New harmful factors of military labor (radiation, non-ionizing radiation, fuel components, infrasound, seismic waves, laser radiation, etc. .), previously known are becoming increasingly harmful.

Unfortunately, these trends were not opposed to a targeted program to improve the habitability of military equipment. Designers seem to have forgotten that when creating specific samples, it is necessary to take into account the capabilities and needs of the human body.

Until now, in the sealed objects there are no elementary devices for heating food, boiling water, and sending natural necessities. It is not possible to rest lying down, there are no jobs in the reclining position. It should be emphasized that this is where many causes of occupational diseases of military personnel lie.

According to the medical service of the USSR Armed Forces, in the Soviet Army 1975 cases of occupational diseases were registered in 254, 1976 in 292, 1977 in 315, and 1978 in 340. During the period from 1975 to 1978, the number of retired people due to occupational diseases increased fivefold. Until now, a fatal outcome occurs in acute radiation injuries, accidents of military facilities, poisoning by technical fluids.

Obviously, the safety of military labor should become the dominant criterion in the development of habitable objects. It is for this indicator that domestic military equipment (especially ground equipment) is inferior to foreign models. So, although during two years of active military service tankers are only 12-15 percent of working time (and only 3-5 percent of the time is directly in the tank), the effect of negative environmental factors on the body often leads to such diseases as nephritis and cystitis, sciatica and myositis, diseases of the upper respiratory tract and the cardiovascular system.

In addition, the large potential capabilities of technology, achieved at the cost of enormous material costs, are not fully realized by personnel, and not by their fault. In particular (according to B. Borisov, I. Kudrin, M. Tikhonov), the effectiveness of using artillery guns is reduced by 40 percent, some types of anti-aircraft missile systems on 20-30, and tanks - on 30-35 percent. On average, the real rate of return of samples of AAT is precisely because of. the fact that human capabilities are not taken into account is 20-30 percent lower than the potential.

Scientific and technical progress in military affairs is only a material prerequisite for the improvement of military equipment. Its effectiveness is not limited only to the advanced level of installed weapons, control bodies, power plant, etc. The main thing is the person, his physical and mental health. Existing TSOO armored vehicles do not fully meet this requirement. The production of their promising samples does not go beyond the scope of individual experiments.

The implementation of medical-technical requirements for habitability of OVT is a complex problem that requires joint active actions of interested organizations. Practically, it can be solved only with the simultaneous elaboration of the whole set of questions of design, production, operation and repair. We consider it necessary to supplement the standard definition of habitability with the concept of normative habitability, i.e., the environment of AHT artificially created and maintained by special measures, means and systems. In a broad sense, it is a system of scientifically based norms, requirements and rules, unified methods and programs for the assessment, control, development, production, operation and medical-technical examination of SAT.

In our opinion, in order to ensure a unified approach to normative habitability, it would be worthwhile to develop a Regulation on medical and technical support of the life cycle of OVT that lists organizational, technical and sanitary requirements for all participants in the development, production and operation of military equipment. Regulatory habitability should be the same subject of attention of developers and customers, as well as fire power, security, mobility.

About man forgot
Author:
Originator:
http://otvaga2004.ru
48 comments
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  1. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 1 October 2012 08: 15
    +1
    That's how it is, but just sitting at the computer is more than harmful!
    I don’t quite understand - the authors hint at additional research grants? Like to sit and develop new pieces of paper? And everything at work?
    1. Tirpitz
      Tirpitz 1 October 2012 09: 50
      +5
      And where are the pieces of paper? It is necessary to increase the conditions of habitability and comfort!
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 1 October 2012 09: 55
        +2
        It is just about the pieces of paper - "it would be worth developing a Regulation on medical and technical support for the life cycle of OVT, which would list the organizational, technical and sanitary and hygienic requirements for all participants in the development, production and operation of military equipment."
        1. Tirpitz
          Tirpitz 1 October 2012 10: 11
          +1
          Let our people sit down at the papers - they will develop and rewrite them for about 20 years, the bureaucracy is still the same. Can European or American norms be taken as a basis and finalized to fit your needs?
        2. Sergl
          Sergl 1 October 2012 10: 20
          +1
          Quote: Brother Sarich
          It would be worth developing the Regulation


          I don’t see anything wrong with this, first you need to set the bar for the designers, which they cannot fall behind, and then strictly ask.

          It’s another matter that developing bridges for years is not a state approach.
      2. borisst64
        borisst64 1 October 2012 15: 16
        +4
        Quote: Tirpitz
        It is necessary to increase the conditions of habitability and comfort!


        Compare the German T-III, T-IV and TV Panther. The former are replete with hatches and doors (to make it more convenient), square shapes for space. And the panther lacks this. Hull integrity and better armor protection are more important. It is better to fight in cramped conditions than to die in comfortable conditions.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 1 October 2012 15: 29
          +1
          We are talking about a slightly different situation and a slightly different time.
        2. carbofo
          carbofo 1 October 2012 19: 11
          0
          borisst64,
          Everything is much simpler, why do we need a door in an armor of 50-80 mm weighing, say, a kilo of 30-50, it makes little sense and the armor resistance, as you rightly noticed, falls.
          Especially on the early tanks were not particularly sophisticated with ventilation.
  2. DIMS
    DIMS 1 October 2012 08: 27
    +5
    Correct article, I had to think about it for a long time
  3. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 1 October 2012 09: 31
    +3
    Interesting article. There should be a healthy compromise in everything. Decreased living space should not adversely affect the crew. However, improved habitability should lead to increased crew productivity.
    1. Tirpitz
      Tirpitz 1 October 2012 09: 52
      +4
      All right. + But then on the forum, many make fun of air conditioners in leopards and abrams, they say you need to fight and not cool.
      1. Recon
        Recon 1 October 2012 11: 31
        +2
        I think these are people once long who served the term.
  4. Drappier
    Drappier 1 October 2012 09: 36
    0
    Everything is correctly written, a person should be above all.
  5. Sheva777
    Sheva777 1 October 2012 11: 42
    +2
    Everything should be in moderation
  6. igor67
    igor67 1 October 2012 12: 35
    +3
    It’s good to become, I have already posted pictures and videos here where, in the Centurion tank, I walk inside the tank with a height of 177 and barely hang in domestic cars, we have an engineer he is 197 height, he was a tank commander Merkava, interestingly he’ll fit in t72

    It’s good to become, I have already posted pictures and videos here where, in the Centurion tank, I walk inside the tank with a height of 177 and barely hang in domestic cars, we have an engineer he is 197 height, he was a tank commander Merkava, interestingly he’ll fit in t72
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 1 October 2012 15: 06
      +8
      Quote: igor67
      we have an engineer he has growth 197 he was a tank commander Merkava, interestingly he will fit in t72


      My mechanic was such a height. True, his shoulders were hefty, he first squeezed one shoulder into the hatch of a mechanic, then the second, and he sat as in gynecology, but refused to be translated flatly.
      1. igor67
        igor67 1 October 2012 15: 16
        +5
        vorobey,
        He probably dreamed of being a tanker, so why abandon her. My classmate was 149, on the registration commission and already dreamed of not joining the army, but in 10th grade I grew up by a centimeter and in T62 as a mechanic driver, I left for Mongolia in 84
        1. dom.lazar
          dom.lazar 2 October 2012 01: 05
          +1
          I had the same
          their name was Edik the Red - we were nicknamed him - the last soldier of the Reich
          I drove a GAZ 53 while driving a car, laying a pillow and all the same, some glasses stuck out from behind the wheel
          so in 86 grew up on the put centimeter and thundered in the bus
  7. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 1 October 2012 13: 15
    +6

    An ideal tanker, just fabulous as a rearmament of the Russian Army.
    Okay, jokes are good, but seriously:
    With the current development of tanks, the dimensions no longer have special values, the tank can fall from a maximum distance into a square with an area of ​​1m ^ 2, and this could still be T-72, and accordingly T-64 and T-80 since they had the same gun .
    So why do we cling to the old? even now, thoughts are heard to put a new uninhabited tower on the T-90 and release them, well, this machine has already outlived its own, it does not have a modification resource, it ended back in the 90s! We must take this into account and make a normal car, of course, with the growth of dimensions, the weight will also increase, but there are no engines. Here, as they say, the last hope for the ghostly "Armata", but there is no trust in it, since the old cannon was left, and it can no longer fight modern modifications of enemy armored vehicles. Now, if they had put at least 135mm, it would have been cool, but these Gs all want to save on their pocket, OOOOOOO !!! G! Well, X is with them, the time will come to "Collect stones".
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 1 October 2012 15: 20
      +3
      Quote: cth; fyn
      Here, as they say, the last hope for the ghostly "Armata", but there is no more trust in it, since the cannon was left old, and it can no longer fight modern modifications of enemy armored vehicles


      Where does this opinion come from?

      Quote: cth; fyn
      Now, if you had set at least 135mm it would have been cool, but these Gs all want to save in their pocket,


      And why not 140 mm, not 152, on the contrary, in R&D, it is possible to steal more for these puffs.

      for the opinion plus, but for the knowledge of the materiel minus.
    2. borisst64
      borisst64 1 October 2012 15: 24
      +2
      Quote: cth; fyn
      the tank can get from a maximum distance into a square of 1m ^ 2


      This is possible, but consider it a guaranteed option, at least naively. Even in ideal conditions, when shooting from a place, without interference, on a clearly visible target, there are a lot of factors that can affect. This is the wind, and the failure of the sight, and the wear of the barrel, and the defect b / p, etc. etc. And most importantly, there is a human unpredictable factor.
    3. carbofo
      carbofo 1 October 2012 19: 14
      +4
      cth; fyn,
      Well, hit HE shell 125-155 mm with a high degree of damage to the tank and to put it mildly shakes the soul out of the crew. Even if the gap is a few meters.
      While small dimensions are still in price.
    4. Per se.
      Per se. 2 October 2012 16: 36
      +3
      Quote: cth; fyn
      With the current development of tanks, the dimensions no longer have special values,


      Quote: cth; fyn
      make a normal car, of course, with the growth of dimensions, the mass will increase
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 2 October 2012 16: 41
        +2
        Does size really matter, and is a bio-toilet needed in a modern tank, or else you look, and showers?
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 4 October 2012 12: 37
          -1
          Per se.,
          I forgot the bed, and where the lads will have a rest, this is a violation of rights.
  8. Pimply
    Pimply 1 October 2012 13: 36
    +1
    One of the advantages of the Israelis in tank battles was considered to be the ability to live and work in tanks for up to several days due to the greater space and comfort in Western tanks, while in Soviet tanks the tankers spent several hours.
    1. borisst64
      borisst64 1 October 2012 15: 27
      +6
      Our tankers in World War II lived in tanks and fought for days and won. Rather, it’s not so much in tanks as in people. When you need to fight, and they take out rugs and get up on their knees. This factor provides some advantages.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 October 2012 15: 35
        +3
        If you want to live, you will not be so heated. (from)

        It’s possible to get used to swimming in shit. But pure water is better, right?
      2. dom.lazar
        dom.lazar 2 October 2012 01: 07
        0
        the tankers in our tanks lived several battles
        then usually either the tank burned out or the tankers died
    2. Per se.
      Per se. 2 October 2012 17: 03
      -1
      Quote: Pimply
      One of the advantages of the Israelis in tank battles was considered to be the ability to live and work in tanks for up to several days due to the greater space and comfort in Western tanks, while in Soviet tanks the tankers spent several hours.
      The Israeli "Merkava" is a very good tank, but for its geographic region and for the specifics of the war in the Middle East. I don’t know where you got the information about the time spent in the tanks of Soviet tankers, but the tank is, first of all, equipment for combat, and not a tourist trailer with a refrigerator for beer. Miracles do not happen if it arrives in one, decreases in another. Comfort and convenience in combat are not the same.
  9. Patos89
    Patos89 1 October 2012 14: 34
    +1
    Yes, the article is interesting
  10. plump
    plump 1 October 2012 15: 00
    +3
    I was always interested in the question: what about the tank in winter?
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 1 October 2012 15: 12
      +11
      Quote: chubby
      I was always interested in the question: what about the tank in winter?


      In different ways, it is sad, it is cold, it is hot, it is sad (if you shot poorly) and it is fun.
      1. Pinochet000
        Pinochet000 2 October 2012 00: 55
        +3
        Quote: vorobey
        I was always interested in the question: what about the tank in winter?

        A regular heater doesn’t ... do, you make a gut out of tarpaulin and cling to the blinds, direct the commander into the hatch, warm it up, close it .... for a couple, three hours is enough. It can be used on the march, in case of a battle it (the gut) can be easily thrown back.
      2. Prohor
        Prohor 2 October 2012 21: 48
        0
        It turns out that the whole range of emotions is present? If so, then you can live in our tank! wink
  11. vorobey
    vorobey 1 October 2012 15: 10
    +4
    The author is Lieutenant General of the Medical Service P. VYAZITSKY, professor, doctor of medical sciences, laureate of the USSR State Prize; Colonel of the medical service I. KUDRIN, professor, doctor of medical sciences; Colonel of the Medical Service M. DYAKONOV, Doctor of Medical Sciences; Colonel M. TIKHONOV

    they’ll find a bunch of sores with the doctors. and in general it’s harmful to fight, and to serve in the army too.
  12. strannik595
    strannik595 1 October 2012 15: 47
    +4
    in war, as in war ...... in a resort, as in a resort ....
  13. kov
    kov 1 October 2012 16: 18
    +2
    I do not understand why the T-54 is also given in the plate when it is no longer used in any conflicts. Judging by the recent military operations of Syria and Libya, it is there that they use tanks from the t-55 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMSUZKCAcI8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= DkgZ13AgNKw)
    Human life has always been less valued in battle than the survival of technology.
  14. leon-iv
    leon-iv 1 October 2012 16: 29
    +7
    Divov has a book of weapons of retribution. There is an interesting addition there. So of course at the level of kitsch but generally true.
    "Russian weapons are the best"
    For the countries of the "third world" for sure. Russian weapons, which I had to deal with, were tailored according to one principle: a good idea, good hardware and nothing else good. And he could fight - wow! But this is like the unique cross-country ability of Camel Trophy cars, which was explained not so much by the off-road qualities of the Land Rover Discovery as by the willingness of the teams to carry jeeps on themselves through the swamps.
    A typical Russian weapon speculates on the user's ability to dodge. If you don’t reach there, and you don’t pull it with all your strength, it won’t go. If you don’t stick the little one out of ten options, it will not charge. Kick this thing with your boot, pull it gently, and it’s better not to touch it at all ... And when you do everything right, then your Russian weapon will go, load and shoot. Catch up and overtake the Jewish, crush the American and give a light to German. Exclusively at the expense of your nerves and health. It is traditionally strong at its core, Russian weapons. But you have to be even stronger.
    Do not turn on the heater; Do not attach the last section of the antenna, it will fall off. Unfasten the hood, otherwise you will regularly receive from the back of the head with a hatch. The seat is hard, find yourself a pillow. You can’t turn this thing around with gloves. We have all the pliers open. Tear it off, but do not throw it away, suddenly a check, then we will attach it back. Inconvenient? Inconvenient to shit in the mailbox! Sorry my french!
    You should be proud that a normal Swedish tank has a coffee maker and a dry closet. Because you are a Russian warrior, a descendant of the Vikings, and you don't need this stuff. A coffee maker still won't make a moonshine still. And you will shit with radioactive armor - on the scorched Swedish soil! And proudly wipe yourself with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.
    There is only one knot in the "Tulip" loading system - I was just ready to bite it. It was precisely designed by an enemy saboteur. And after all, until you plug it in properly, the car is dead. And go and stick it right in the hustle and bustle, but when the armor is slippery. No, you go and stick it in! armless!
    Those who drove the GAZ-66 and got used to the legendary Shishigi gear lever will understand me.
    The only example of Russian weapons known to me that is distinguished by decent ergonomics is the Kalashnikov. My AKS-74 was just a toy.
    Well, a shovel is also a convenient thing.


    Moreover, the new requirements of the Ministry of Defense to BTT
    All new BTT series must have:
    1. Increased protection in all projections
    2. Increased firepower, including and, for some species, out of line of sight
    3. Protection against WMD or not worse, or slightly worse than the previous generation
    4. Increased autonomy, accelerated maintenance procedures, refueling and recharging (including automated, without leaving the car or with minimal participation)
    5. Improved habitability, allowing you to stay inside the machines for several days without any problems. (c) BS
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 October 2012 16: 34
      +1
      A wonderful remark. While Ak miracle of ergonomics was far from being 8)
  15. Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 1 October 2012 18: 26
    +2
    They are set out in twelve medical and technical requirements of the Ministry of Defense (MP MO), 28 regulatory and technical documents and 48 State standards.

    More paper is cleaner ...
  16. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 1 October 2012 19: 42
    +5
    In my opinion, some kind of mischievous article.
    It is assumed that a foreign tank is larger than ours, then there is more internal space for each crew member. Not for the first year I have been asking for a photo in support of these statements, but no one has provided photos from which it is all visible.

    The people are aware that all domestic military equipment is made on the basis that a soldier's height is 175cm? + adjustments if it is higher or lower. In "Leopard-2" the distance from the floor to the tower ceiling is 165 cm. That is, ideally, the loader should be a gnome, so that he does not hunch back during his main work. Let me remind you that our tank (from T-64 and above) has no loader, and the commander and gunner are sitting in armchairs, as in a passenger car. In the place of the commander, our Rogozin, with a height of one meter ninety, fits well.
    Incidentally, in Abrams, in the place of the loader, a person with normal height can stand inside the tank only with the hatch open.
    Gunner with commander in Abrams:
    And much there is spacious? especially with the gunner?
    The place of our commander (the gunner sits almost as well, only on the other side of the gun) Each crew member has his own hatch above his head:
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 1 October 2012 22: 02
      0
      Bad_gr,
      Well, all the same, they are somewhat more spacious, but because of this, the tank is very large.
      True, it seems to me part of the matter is the volume of equipment, in general, again everything rests on the elemental base.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 1 October 2012 22: 16
        +2
        Quote: carbofo
        Well, all the same, they are somewhat more spacious, but because of this, the tank is very large.
        That it is dimensional, and its internal volume is correspondingly larger - I agree, but we must still be able to intelligently manage this volume.
        Upper - Abrams,
        medium - Leopard
        bottom - teshka
        For example, more than half of the body volume at Abrams is occupied by the engine compartment. Compare with the layout of the cache.
      2. BlackCat
        BlackCat 8 October 2012 16: 31
        +1
        Quote: carbofo
        Well, all the same, they are somewhat more spacious, but because of this, the tank is very large.

        The red circle indicates the entire living space of 3 crew members (commander, gunner, loader) Abrams inside the hull

        + some space is added inside the tower itself (added space in the corners). In the photo, this living space (indicated in red) is inside the basket under the tower.

        The crew (three people listed) is located inside the basket along with the breech of the gun and equipment for controlling the gun, communications equipment, etc.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 2 October 2012 20: 34
      +1
      By the way, our last tank, which had a loader, is the T-62. If we compare it with the modern Abrams tank, then Abrams loses outright in terms of comfort. From practice, I can say that two fighters can sleep on the floor at the workplace of the loader in our T-62.
      Here is the place of the charging Abrams:
      Of course, if you remove the seat, then sitting on the floor, you can take a nap, but this can not be compared with the space in the T-62, where on the floor you can stretch to the full height.
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 4 October 2012 12: 39
        0
        Bad_gr,
        Photo to the studio
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 4 October 2012 13: 07
          0
          http://tank-samolet.ru/technic/sale/tanks/t62_w.php вот нашел что-то
    3. Klim2011
      Klim2011 18 February 2013 23: 03
      0
      The photos are great! And the article you respected in vain called kosobokoy. Would you try the T80 mech water in place, after standing at the exercises at minus 30, press the starter or MZN :). In my memory, in this beautiful car, the fur had no stove water in principle. The article is correct, with all due respect to our own country and technology, we must recognize that they do not think about people.
  17. cooper
    cooper 1 October 2012 22: 11
    0
    Better to sit bad than to stand well. There is no dry closet, bad, but how much armor do you need for it to work? I'd rather be in the tank, but I knew that the dry closet armor was used for its intended purpose.
  18. Setrac
    Setrac 1 October 2012 23: 25
    +2
    Well, suppose you are a constructor, and you were given the task to improve the habitability of tanks, this can be done in several ways
    1. Due to other parameters, we reduce the caliber of the gun to 100 mm, the volume of ammunition decreases, the weight of the drive, etc., we reduce the size-mass and, as a result, the engine power, which will lead to a sharp decrease in maneuverability.
    2. It is possible to improve habitability by increasing the size, but it is necessary to increase the weight of the armor, which pulls the need to increase the power of the engines, in general a vicious circle.
    3. You can remove one crew member, but then the question will be, to spend the released resource on habitability, or to improve combat performance.
    So your choice?
  19. flanker7
    flanker7 2 October 2012 00: 39
    +5
    Comrades! A tank is a battle machine. Talk about where better habitability, where you can stay for several days, YES ANYWHERE. In the SV compartment, for a few days, you can sense what to say about the tank! He served on the T80, this is the best tank that we have, unfortunately so far ....
  20. Allegedly
    Allegedly 2 October 2012 00: 59
    +1
    RESPONSIBILITY without love makes a person UNCHAINLESS ...
  21. mind1954
    mind1954 3 October 2012 20: 26
    0
    Thank you for the article !
    Always surprised at a coffee maker in Abrams.
    He believed that we have, even severely, but they follow ergonomics, from the same
    combat readiness depends! Charger removal, air conditioning development,
    even the production showed it - the result of this!?

    But the article, apparently, is useful because the need has long ripened,
    explain on this topic! What is required in the article, in my opinion,
    can be satisfied in only one way: to do internal
    tank volume in the image and likeness of a capsule of a spaceship!
    The reckless design of the tank allows you to do something similar.

    But the general direction in overcoming the existing contradictions,
    I consider, EXTENSION OF ALL EQUIPMENT AS POSSIBLE
    FROM THE BATTLE DIVISION, after the gun and ammunition!
    Even if it will require a separate reservation.

    PERFECT, it would be, the presence in the fighting compartment only
    control bodies (indicators, screens) and controls !!!
    But to realize this, as I understand it, we need, first of all, ELECTRONICS !!!
  22. vitya29111973
    vitya29111973 1 February 2013 15: 52
    0
    Good and good article.
  23. ka5280
    ka5280 14 February 2013 06: 26
    -1
    At the expense of the air conditioner in the tank. The air conditioner uses very toxic refrigerants, in the case of fur. damage to the air conditioning installation, this rubbish will be in the lungs of the tankers. so tell me why the Conder in the tank?