Guns and machine guns. Outdated weapons of the Ukrainian army as a trend

109

Army units have modern weaponsbut not everyone is so lucky. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

Ukraine is preparing for a mythical Russian attack and is trying to urgently rearm. Some of the necessary products and samples come from abroad, while others are taken from our own warehouses. At the same time, all available weapons are used, including those that have long been obsolete and decommissioned. Such processes provide some restoration of defense capability, but indicate the presence of serious problems.

Machine gun problems


With the start of the civil war in 2014, the Ukrainian army found that the available stocks of small arms, created back in the days of the USSR, had noticeably depleted during the years of independence. Because of this, the mobilization and formation of new structures and units faced the characteristic problem of a lack of modern weapons. Machine guns and machine guns were used not only with the latest modifications, but also with older weapons.



Now Ukraine is conducting yet another preparation to repel the mythical Russian aggression - and again faces the problem of a lack of weapons. This time, specific, ambiguous and outdated arsenals are being formed for the newly created "territorial defense" recruited from civilians.


"Maxim" in the dugout. Photo Twitter.com/RALee85

Vivid examples of the lack of weapons could be observed already in 2014-15, during the active phase of the civil war. Thus, long-discontinued Maxim machine guns were repeatedly seen at Ukrainian positions and training grounds. At the end of January, such a machine gun once again hit the lens - and became the reason for publications in the foreign press.

"Maxim" has long been outdated and has a number of serious drawbacks. However, army units often have no choice and are forced to use what they have. At the same time, they are trying to get maximum results from old machine guns. So, they are placed on stationary firing points, where long-term shooting is required and it is possible to provide a tray of cartridges and water.

Also in 2014, another curious outdated sample was spotted in the “ATO zone”. A fighter or fighters of one of the Ukrainian formations used a DP-27 light machine gun. The exact circumstances of the return to service of this weapon are unknown, but it is clear that it was used due to a lack of newer models.


Training lesson on the topic of the DP-27 machine gun for territorial defense. Frame from Youtube video / sapeurgalanet

At the end of January, a video recording of a training session of the territorial defense unit of the city of Brovary (Kyiv region) was published. Volunteers called upon to defend the metropolitan region were taught to handle Degtyarev. Probably, now such a machine gun is regularly in service with the unit.

Scarce samples


It is reported that the lack of weapons in the territorial defense can be partially covered by the personal weapons of the participating citizens. The “militias” are already showing off their rifles and carbines, mostly modern models. At the same time, it cannot be ruled out that over time, “grandfather double-barreled shotguns” will appear in the units, incl. archaic models.

In recent days, Ukraine has been regularly showing training of the civilian population, and often such news cause laughter. More successful units have the opportunity to conduct "exercises" with real machine guns and other weapons. Others use visually and ergonomically similar airsoft systems. However, the "contour models" of army weapons, neatly sawn out of plywood, attract the most attention.


Training with simulators is safe and fun. Photo voennoedelo.com

Plywood "machine guns" and other substitutes for real weapons make it possible to train new personnel and even ensure the safety of classes. However, their appearance may be associated not only with security, but also with the lack of full-fledged weapons. What, in this case, the volunteers will have to fight is a big question for the structures responsible for supply. However, the answer to this question has already been proposed. The "militia" plan to transfer weapons from the stocks of the army.

Anti-tank difficulties


Ukraine has its own production of anti-tank missile systems, and the army has a fairly large number of such weapons. However, in recent years, the Ukrainian leadership has paid much more attention to foreign designs. By all means, Kiev tried to get American portable anti-tank systems and eventually achieved its goal. In recent weeks, there have been new deliveries of foreign-made anti-tank weapons in the amount of hundreds or thousands of pieces.

Despite receiving a large number of modern missiles, the Ukrainian army continues to use old artillery systems. The other day, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine showed the exercises of the ground forces at one of the training grounds. Together with other means, the MT-12R Ruta anti-tank gun was used in the event. This is a 100 mm gun with a 1A31 radar sight, capable of using various types of projectiles and 9M117 or Stugna missiles.


MT-12R gun during a recent exercise. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

The MT-12 entered service in the early seventies, and for its time, the gun and its missiles were a very successful model, capable of hitting existing Tanks. However, to date, "Ruta" is morally obsolete and cannot fully solve the previous tasks. Why it is still used in full-fledged exercises is unclear. Perhaps this is due to the lack of the desired number of more modern weapons.

General obsolescence


It should be noted that "Maxim" or "Ruta" are only the most striking examples of the problems of the Ukrainian army. The overwhelming majority of the materiel of the Ukrainian army of all classes is still of Soviet origin or goes back to it. Accordingly, these products are older and often do not meet modern requirements. These trends are observed in the field of small arms, artillery, aviation and, with some exceptions, in armored vehicles.

The reasons for this are quite simple. From the USSR, independent Ukraine received a fairly developed military industry and connections with enterprises of other states. They could not be used in an optimal way, which is why the full development of the army on its own was not carried out. The modernization of the armed forces through bulk purchases of imports also proved impossible due to limited economic potential.

Guns and machine guns. Outdated weapons of the Ukrainian army as a trend

British NLAW grenade launchers from a recent delivery. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

As a result, the Ukrainian army, throughout the three decades of its independent existence, relied mainly on stocks of weapons and equipment left over from Soviet times. If necessary, stocks of newer products were used and spent, and in addition, existing samples were traded quite actively. As a result, stocks of late samples were gradually reduced, which in the future should have led to problems along the line of rearmament. And the regular results of these processes have been observed since 2014.

It is easy to see that the situation has not fundamentally changed over the past eight years. Attempts to establish domestic production of the necessary products have largely failed, and opportunities for the purchase of foreign products remain limited. Nevertheless, it is possible to get help from foreign partners in the form of direct deliveries or purchases on preferential terms.

No special prospects


Thus, despite all the attempts and processes of recent years, the overall situation with the materiel in the Ukrainian army remains difficult and generally does not encourage optimism. Stocks of armaments, ammunition and materiel are gradually being used up, and replenishment in the required volumes is impossible. Foreign aid also does not allow us to solve this problem.

In connection with such problems, the army and other armed structures are forced to get from warehouses and return to operation long-obsolete samples. In addition, in some situations it is necessary to use not a weapon, but its replacement. So far, all this can be considered isolated cases, but in the near future such cases may develop into a real trend. The only question is the timing of such a transformation.
109 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +1
    9 February 2022 04: 47
    However, the most attention is drawn to the "contour models" of army weapons, carefully cut out of plywood.

    ***
    Macron during yesterday's visit promised Zelensky to arrange supplies of plywood from Paris and jigsaws...
    ***
    1. -2
      9 February 2022 07: 02
      And sticks for bows and arrows and elastic bands from shorts for slingshots wassat lol
      1. -10
        9 February 2022 07: 10
        Ukraine is preparing for a mythical Russian attack and is trying to urgently rearm.

        Yesterday on TV they said that the Sumerian military was preparing to attack the LDNR. And only in response will RA attack.
        Thus, despite all the attempts and processes of recent years, the overall situation with the materiel in the Ukrainian army remains difficult and generally does not encourage optimism. Stocks of armaments, ammunition and materiel are gradually being used up, and replenishment in the required volumes is impossible. Foreign aid also does not allow us to solve this problem.

        And again yesterday, the media wrote about arming the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the latest military equipment by the West and the threat of an attack by Ukraine.
        In the end, who is lying?
        1. +3
          9 February 2022 08: 43
          Well, you are right, how small! Definitely VV Putin is lying! And the Armed Forces of Ukraine and Western partners always and everywhere speak exclusively the truth!
          1. -13
            9 February 2022 10: 43
            Quote: avg avg
            Well, you are right, how small! Definitely VV Putin is lying! And the Armed Forces of Ukraine and Western partners always and everywhere speak exclusively the truth!

            You affirmatively stated that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief President of Russia Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin lied. That is, you have committed a criminal offense under Article 128.1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
      2. -2
        9 February 2022 08: 30
        and rubber bands from shorts for slingshots

        Panties - only lacy!
        1. +1
          9 February 2022 13: 02
          Briefs are worn over the rest of the clothing and have a color differentiation according to the hygienic table drinks
    2. +2
      9 February 2022 15: 48
      So maybe an illusion is specially created, they say, a weak, defenseless, poorly armed country in the face of an aHressor ????? Maybe it's intended for the public commercials. Help who than can. We are the victim!!!! This is how the image of the victim is created from the aggressor .... drinks
      1. -3
        15 February 2022 09: 54
        Quote: zloybond
        So maybe an illusion is specially created, they say, a weak, defenseless, poorly armed country in the face of an aHressor ????? Maybe it's intended for the public commercials. Help who than can. We are the victim!!!! This is how the image of the victim is created from the aggressor .... drinks

        That's right. The information war is bearing fruit. Just don't forget that until 2014 Ukraine was not going to fight with anyone. Accordingly, everyone was kept to a minimum
    3. +6
      9 February 2022 22: 47
      Quote: Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov

      ***
      Macron during yesterday's visit promised Zelensky to arrange supplies of plywood from Paris and jigsaws...
      ***
      Macron sold on credit to Ukraine (Zelensky) 130 Alstrom locomotives и 370 units of fire and rescue equipment.
      Credit 1,2 billion - 900 million euros for locomotives, 300 million for fire equipment.
      bully
      1. -5
        15 February 2022 09: 57
        Quote: cat Rusich
        Quote: Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov

        ***
        Macron during yesterday's visit promised Zelensky to arrange supplies of plywood from Paris and jigsaws...
        ***
        Macron sold on credit to Ukraine (Zelensky) 130 Alstrom locomotives и 370 units of fire and rescue equipment.
        Credit 1,2 billion - 900 million euros for locomotives, 300 million for fire equipment.
        bully

        And? The equipment didn’t arrive? Well, maybe it’s still being manufactured. Over time, all loans will be written off. By the way, do you know that the average salary in Ukraine has almost caught up with the Russian one?
  2. +8
    9 February 2022 05: 05
    Well, thank God it is!
    "God did not give horns to a vigorous cow!"
    "Maxim" in the embrasure of the Bandera bunker of a very old model (still produced before 1939), without a wide neck on the barrel casing.
    In order to correctly and smoothly operate the Maxim machine gun, you need to know and be able to do a lot, and this, in the case of the semi-literate Rogul contingent of "heroes", is unlikely ...
    The training "Degtyarev infantry" (exactly like our school one, produced in 1942, from the office of the NVP) is also still a pre-war model, with an underbarrel reciprocating mainspring, very prone to thermal precipitation during intense shooting.
    There have always been problems with the "DP-27" disk magazine, as well as with the transverse break of the shells (and the scarce extractor for them) ...
    It is very good that the bloodthirsty Banderva lacks reliable Soviet PCs (PKMs), Kalashes and ammunition, almost completely squandered by klepto-hucklers (in uniform and without) over the years of Deriban "independence"!
    PS. According to the burnt marks on the contours of the plywood "Kalash" (for "training" small-town gangs of "patriots"), they are most likely made by laser cutting, and not "cut out" with a jigsaw ?!
    1. +2
      9 February 2022 05: 38
      Quote: pishchak
      It's good that the bloodthirsty Banderva lacks reliable Soviet PCs

      Grabs them. Ukraine had the largest warehouses in the USSR.
      1. +11
        9 February 2022 05: 57
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: pishchak
        It's good that the bloodthirsty Banderva lacks reliable Soviet PCs

        Grabs them. Ukraine had the largest warehouses in the USSR.

        hi "over the years of Deriban "independence" almost completely squandered by kleptohucklers (in uniform and without)!" request
        After all, I wanted to write in my comment and words about "huge caches of weapons The Soviet Army, after 1991 inherited by the "square" not yet "burned out" after the total looting-sale, "but considered it already known to everyone, too banal" reminder "! Yes
        But, now I understand that, probably, it is necessary to explain everything in detail, without omitting anything, literally verbatim, to chew "for those who are in the armored train" ?! smile
        1. -3
          9 February 2022 06: 02
          Quote: pishchak
          it is imperative to chew everything in detail, without omitting anything, "for those who are in the armored train"

          Uh-huh, but how did our warehouses burn in the 90s, recall?
          1. +9
            9 February 2022 06: 22
            Well, in the gangster 90s ("saints" for the EBN organized crime group) throughout the post-Soviet space (it began under Shushkevich and in Belarus, but it seemed to stop under Lukashenka), such deribanism with artillery warehouses and other property of the Soviet Army was going on ..., and in the "Maidan derzhavi" is still going on ...
            1. -11
              9 February 2022 06: 27
              Quote: pishchak
              Well, in the gangster 90s

              Yes. Only now, in the gangster nineties, I received a salary, more than now.
              1. +13
                9 February 2022 06: 42
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                Quote: pishchak
                Well, in the gangster 90s

                Yes. Only now, in the gangster nineties, I received a salary, more than now.

                And we didn’t receive salaries for half a year or more in the “nezalezhnoy” - I remember those “holy 90s” as very hungry and poor ...
                Only in the early 2000s, already under the premiership of Yanukovych, it seemed that salaries began to improve, and even the “debt”, which had depreciated by an order of magnitude, was paid to us with a creak.
                In the summer of 2004, my Belarusian relatives were even jealous - salaries were at the level and products were cheaper than in Belarus ...
                So in the fall of 2004, the Zapadensky rogues and "Svidomites" from small-town educated people who came in large numbers, staged their first, "orange", Maidan coup d'état in Kiev and plunged the unfortunate "nezalezhna derzhava" into the abyss of decay and frenzied Russophobia ...
                1. +3
                  9 February 2022 06: 51
                  Quote: pishchak
                  And we in the "nezalezhnoy" salary for six months or more did not receive

                  So it depended on the boss. Our director himself did not steal, and did not give to others. When most of the chiefs were transplanted to geldings, he cut through the UAZ.
                  1. +7
                    9 February 2022 07: 11
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    Quote: pishchak
                    And we in the "nezalezhnoy" salary for six months or more did not receive

                    So it depended on the boss. Our director himself did not steal, and did not give to others. When most of the chiefs were transplanted to geldings, he cut through the UAZ.

                    hi I completely agree with you - everything depends on the decency of the immediate superiors (our "red director", appointed from the secretaries of the district committee of the CPSU who went wrong, was already an inveterate "shameful thief" under the Union, who surrounded himself with the same "tricks", and after the collapse of the USSR "pulled up" he also went to the factory with all his relatives and already stole and robbed without restraint, as on the last day, as a result, human tears poured out for him, then he died for a long time, dog, and the stolen did not help, his accomplices also did not lag behind ... ) also depended on the leadership of the country, on its exactingness in complying with labor laws (in the 90s we were desperately jealous of the Belarusians - their president Lukashenko did not hesitate to even personally call unscrupulous directors of enterprises and demand urgent repayment of wage arrears to employees, while ukroprezik Kuchman, constantly traveling "with visits" to foreign countries, in the intervals between his "business trips abroad", he only impotently "advised" us in a television interview that "on salary m" appealed to the courts, although he probably knew that it was completely useless and his accomplices, from the same "red party directors" as renegades like himself, wanted to spit on the "decisions of the courts" and laugh at them with impunity, in fact refusing to comply )!
                    With "panami presidents", even constitutional (not to mention the anti-constitutional "Maidan") Ukrainian residents were chronically unlucky and unlucky at all - they all turned out to be deceivers, dishonorable and incompetent rogues, only hypermercantile "cadenza serving", alas!
                    1. +3
                      9 February 2022 07: 24
                      We had a real communist. I take my hat off to him. Who else could make ordinary locksmiths an apartment of 80 squares each with pink toilet bowls and bathtubs.
                      1. +5
                        9 February 2022 07: 40
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        We had a real communist. I take my hat off to him. Who else could make ordinary locksmiths an apartment of 80 squares each with pink toilet bowls and bathtubs.

                        hi We also had such a director - both the people and the plant were in order, the queue for housing was minimal - he solved all problems!
                        Therefore, he, the Builder of the plant, was removed by the district committee in order to attach his colleague, a stupid performer, to a well-established and prosperous production ... and then the collapse of the USSR arrived in time, here is "it", the rotten inside of this "subchik", and "manifested in in all its glory!"
                        And at my first plant, too, just before 1991, the same stupid factory party organizer was appointed the "red director" as the odious Komsomol party organizer of the "Yuzhmashevsky Design Bureau", who suddenly became the "red director" almost at the same time as the finale of Gorbachev's "catastrophe" ...
                      2. 0
                        9 February 2022 07: 46
                        Quote: pishchak
                        Therefore, he, the Builder of the plant, was removed by the district committee,

                        They didn’t take it off from us ... He presented gifts in the form of knives to everyone. Kind of a hint. We have one worker doing just that, that he grinded knives for the director.
                      3. +5
                        9 February 2022 08: 15
                        In my area, two such problematic "knife and theft craftsmen" (from former conscripts) worked for the director's gang and their kids "knives were made" with "roses" on plexiglass overlays.
                        And, under this shop, "under the director's roof", "hacked" knives for sale.
                        For sale, knives with a blade "made of valves", and a "paid" director's gang "for a fool, for free" - from a simple stainless steel.
                        Behind their backs, the "cutlers" laughed at the director and his camarilla - they say, "they love fraer shine", and the fact that the cutting edge of such a blade is "wrapped" even from stale bread, so they will turn more often to sharpen them ...
                        Our district committee appointee did not give anything to anyone - the toad strangled, he rowed everything for himself, without a twinge of conscience, and his children are the same!
                      4. +2
                        9 February 2022 08: 21
                        Quote: pishchak
                        fraera shine love",

                        So after all, they shine from the valves.
                        Here are my crafts. From valves.
                      5. +5
                        9 February 2022 08: 38
                        In the sense that with a simple stainless steel it is much easier, easier and faster to manage and "brilliance" than with forged blanks made of strong steel (and not only from exhaust valves)! smile
                        Well, yes, and "meat hatchets" also made all such "crap" - we had no problems with stainless steel, duralumin and titanium.
                        My handicrafts all dispersed "to the people." request
                        And for his own he did it with simple wooden handles (made of beech and walnut soaked in hot oil), before having spoiled himself with a "type-setting" color complex and painted "roses". smile
                        And I noticed that if you sharpen a kitchen knife too sharply, then someone from the household will definitely cut himself ...
                      6. +1
                        9 February 2022 08: 46
                        Quote: pishchak
                        In the sense that with a simple stainless steel it is much easier, easier and faster to manage

                        We didn't do that kind of bullshit. Valve, or from the chemical plant 3x95 got.
                      7. +1
                        15 February 2022 15: 17
                        With a dull blade, cut yourself, much easier. Sorry!
                2. +5
                  9 February 2022 07: 46
                  Quote: pishchak
                  And we in the "nezalezhnoy" salary for six months or more did not receive

                  Well so ...
                  And I also didn’t receive it for half a year while I worked at a defense research institute.
                  And the director did not really steal, on the contrary, he tried to save the research institute from bankruptcy with all sorts of "tricks" - still, such a tidbit, real estate in the very center of the city.
                  And he saved, though not all. For which he was then almost imprisoned,
                3. -1
                  15 February 2022 10: 02
                  Quote: pishchak
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Quote: pishchak
                  Well, in the gangster 90s

                  Yes. Only now, in the gangster nineties, I received a salary, more than now.

                  And we didn’t receive salaries for half a year or more in the “nezalezhnoy” - I remember those “holy 90s” as very hungry and poor ...
                  Only in the early 2000s, already under the premiership of Yanukovych, it seemed that salaries began to improve, and even the “debt”, which had depreciated by an order of magnitude, was paid to us with a creak.
                  In the summer of 2004, my Belarusian relatives were even jealous - salaries were at the level and products were cheaper than in Belarus ...
                  So in the fall of 2004, the Zapadensky rogues and "Svidomites" from small-town educated people who came in large numbers, staged their first, "orange", Maidan coup d'état in Kiev and plunged the unfortunate "nezalezhna derzhava" into the abyss of decay and frenzied Russophobia ...

                  Kamrad, so we didn’t receive it for half a year in the 90s. Gaidar said we’ll buy everything, but who wouldn’t think about buying
              2. +1
                9 February 2022 07: 03
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                in the gangster nineties he received a salary, more than now.

                Oh, it started again ..., hehe ..., it remains to mention about "Putin's palaces, yachts and billions" stored no one knows where ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. The comment was deleted.
              3. -1
                9 February 2022 08: 45
                Did bandos pay extra for harmfulness?
                1. -1
                  9 February 2022 09: 41
                  Quote: avg avg
                  Did bandos pay extra for harmfulness?

                  No, I was an ordinary locksmith. What bandos?
              4. +1
                9 February 2022 16: 44
                Only now, in the gangster nineties, I received a salary, more than now.

                Alas, not everyone managed to be bandits in the 90s and on a good salary. But in the "holy nineties" we were given fuel exactly to Japan and back, without taking into account weather conditions. If you want to go home, you will find a diesel engine in the sea, they probably thought so.
                1. -1
                  9 February 2022 16: 58
                  Quote: Stepan S
                  Only now, in the gangster nineties, I received a salary, more than now.

                  Alas, not everyone managed to be bandits in the 90s and on a good salary. But in the "holy nineties" we were given fuel exactly to Japan and back, without taking into account weather conditions. If you want to go home, you will find a diesel engine in the sea, they probably thought so.

                  How did you get with this stereotype that in the 90s only bandos lived normally. My dad got an apartment in 93 for 80 square meters, I, working as a mechanic, received five times more than my mother, I could go to Paris for one vacation. Or for a salary with a bonus, he could take a good five in a seven-year-old state. And we all got it. Novomoskovsky auto repair plant. What kind of bandits are we? As for fuel, ask your management a question. He probably got rich, I'm 99 percent sure.
              5. -1
                18 February 2022 08: 27
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                Quote: pishchak
                Well, in the gangster 90s

                Yes. Only now, in the gangster nineties, I received a salary, more than now.

                They didn’t live sickly ... interestingly, the type of activity, do not tell me? And then after all, most of the country did not see salaries and payments for six months
      2. +1
        9 February 2022 14: 30
        The key word was "were, but everyone left.
        1. 0
          9 February 2022 14: 40
          Quote from: warlock77
          The key word was "were, but everyone left.

          I doubt. In any case, in the 90s they constantly wrote about how the warehouses with weapons in Primorye were burning, but I didn’t read anything like that about Ukraine.
      3. 0
        10 February 2022 15: 05
        keyword WERE
      4. The comment was deleted.
    2. +4
      9 February 2022 06: 40
      Good morning buddy! smile
      "DP-27" has always had problems, as with the transverse breakage of shells (and a scarce extractor for them) ...

      The same problem was with Goryunov (SGMT), regular ruptures of the sleeve. But for some time now I have become a happy owner of my own case extractor and life has become more fun. wink
      1. +3
        9 February 2022 06: 51
        hi Good Morning, my Unforgettable Senior Comrade Konstantin, aka Sea Cat! Yes
        Sleeve breakage is the trouble of all machine guns with an unadjusted "bolt mirror" clearance (especially with such a locking scheme - expanding lugs and a skewed bolt, as in DP and SG).
        There was the same "scarce story" with cartridge case extractors and for our tank PKTs, which is why I always remember about this "cherished item"! smile
    3. +3
      9 February 2022 08: 44
      Quote: pishchak
      PS. According to the burnt marks on the contours of the plywood "Kalash" (for "training" small-town gangs of "patriots"), they are most likely made by laser cutting, and not "cut out" with a jigsaw ?!

      Of course, with a laser. And they can be stacked - it depends on the laser. laughing
  3. Cat
    +1
    9 February 2022 05: 31
    It is easy to see that the situation has not fundamentally changed over the past eight years.

    How has it changed! New uniform, new ranks, new insignia fellow
    And weapons and MTO are something like that ... wassat
  4. -9
    9 February 2022 05: 34
    What a blizzard....
    Plywood machines were given to children back in the USSR. Then what, too, there were not enough real ones?
    No. Just for the purposes of learning to run, they are quite enough.
    1. +2
      9 February 2022 05: 59
      I graduated from high school in 1988! what plywood? Normal AKM 1954! yes, the barrel is propylene, there is no drummer! but everything else is fine! You have a jacket in stock, but they didn’t take me at all! but I can still make out the AKM with my eyes closed!
      1. -4
        9 February 2022 06: 15
        Quote: serg.shishkov2015
        Normal AKM 1954!

        Yes Yes.
        To each?
        Maybe your school was so rich, but we had 3 or 4 AKMs.
        The rest are pieces of wood.
        1. 0
          9 February 2022 07: 01
          Class 30 people, half guys! enough for everyone! I also had PPSh with horns - I myself stood with him at the Eternal Flame, and earlier I saw DP and SGM among high school students!
          1. +3
            9 February 2022 08: 38
            Class 30 people, half guys! enough for everyone!

            This is in Sarov. In 1968, in Orenburg, we made wood for "Zarnitsa" at labor lessons.
          2. +2
            9 February 2022 10: 30
            Quote: serg.shishkov2015
            Class 30 people, half guys! enough for everyone! I also had PPSh with horns - I myself stood with him at the Eternal Flame, and earlier I saw DP and SGM among high school students!

            hi In our Soviet high school, in the office of the NVP, we had dipped DP-27s, 7,62-mm AKs of the first issues, with milled receivers (three different versions), SKS and PPSh carbines with a disk magazine (released in 1942) .. .
            Then I was already turning with might and main, so I noticed that the outer surface of the barrel of our school PPSh was not smooth (like the "Kalash"), but coarsely "screw-ribbed", from turning with a large cutter feed ("in appearance" where - something 1, 25 ÷ 1,5 mm per one revolution of the workpiece).
            This, in addition to a significant reduction in machine time for the manufacture of the PPSh barrel, also improved its air cooling.
            1. +1
              10 February 2022 06: 03
              Thanks for the interesting details! I studied at the Criminal Procedure Code for 1,5 years as a turner! although with my eyesight I am a turner,,, the machine was 1K62, 1957, 16 speeds, levers like a tractor! but the master is cool - Van Vanych Sofeikin! pedagogical genius!
              1. +1
                10 February 2022 07: 45
                Quote: serg.shishkov2015
                Thanks for the interesting details! I studied at the Criminal Procedure Code for 1,5 years as a turner! although with my eyesight I am a turner,,, the machine was 1K62, 1957, 16 speeds, levers like a tractor! but the master is cool - Van Vanych Sofeikin! pedagogical genius!

                hi Similarly, also the same, from the first models, 1K62 in the Code of Criminal Procedure (it was still without accelerated mechanical feed, with a handwheel)). Yes
                And he started turning with TV-4 at labor lessons and then in all school and interschool city Olympiads in labor ... smile
                And now I survive in the post-Maidan devastation with this turning craft. winked
                1. +2
                  10 February 2022 08: 04
                  On my self-propelled was! but the speed 315 did not work - the most necessary! 500 is a little scary, but 200 is not a lathe, but so-so! but for threading low speeds - a complete set! we are mostly hardware and turners!
      2. 0
        20 February 2022 18: 57
        AKM was put into service in 1958, our 226 UPDP appeared only in 1963, so in 1954 there could only be AK.
    2. +6
      9 February 2022 06: 10
      In the USSR, at labor lessons, for the school Zarnitsa, we made full-size (and not flat plywood "outlines") models of Kalashnikov assault rifles from wood and painted them in the appropriate colors.
      Our wooden "AK" from a distance looked like real from any angle (and the butt could be "knocked" like a real one))! Yes
      1. +1
        9 February 2022 10: 01
        The sidekick had one. His grandfather worked at school, gave. And I did not suffer from envy and cut out my own machine gun from plywood. Clumsy of course, but your own!
    3. -1
      18 February 2022 08: 31
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      What a blizzard....
      Plywood machines were given to children back in the USSR. Then what, too, there were not enough real ones?
      No. Just for the purposes of learning to run, they are quite enough.

      What plywood? There were real machine guns, but instead of live ammunition, there was a blank. And shoot "little things" and "air" in the school shooting range.
  5. -3
    9 February 2022 06: 03
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Quote: pishchak
    it is imperative to chew everything in detail, without omitting anything, "for those who are in the armored train"

    Uh-huh, but how did our warehouses burn in the 90s, recall?
  6. +10
    9 February 2022 06: 24
    The overwhelming majority of the materiel of the Ukrainian army of all classes is still of Soviet origin or goes back to it. And don't we? Or do we have all the T 90 tanks of the latest modifications, and even a couple of thousand Armats in addition? Recently, Mr. Ryabov wrote an article about the modernization of the BMP 1. Probably this is no longer the legacy of the USSR, but how many Coalition self-propelled guns do we have? Yes, there are many other examples that can be given. In someone else's eye, a log ..., damn it, you need to solve your problems, and not look out for flaws in others.
    1. +2
      9 February 2022 08: 49
      Why are you killing yourself like that! You will never die like that!
      1. +3
        9 February 2022 09: 42
        made fun of laughing laughing laughing as they say, don't wait!
  7. -5
    9 February 2022 07: 05
    ... We have sunk .... Squander such an arsenal and production ((((...
    1. +1
      9 February 2022 16: 13
      They squandered something - but they created something, they deliver it to the Armed Forces of Ukraine
  8. -1
    9 February 2022 07: 28
    They are armed! in the photo, women and children are trained in handling weapons! This is our loss! This is an unacceptable degree of hatred in a neighboring state! I believe that the only way to fight will be ideological weapons: - the nationalization of enterprises, a tax on luxury for the oligarchs or even their destruction, a course towards social justice. You need to become an example, and a successful example, then fraternal feelings will wake up
    1. +1
      9 February 2022 07: 39
      Quote: aybolyt678
      nationalization of enterprises, a tax on luxury for the oligarchs or even their destruction, a course towards social justice.

      And what about "extremism"? Aren't you afraid to get under the article?
      1. 0
        9 February 2022 08: 06
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        And what about "extremism"? Aren't you afraid to get under the article?

        I do not call by force! we delegated our right to govern the state to special people - deputies, presidents .... so let them do it !!! laughing
        Moreover, in the preamble of the Constitution there is a provision on social justice, so let them bring it into line!
    2. 0
      20 February 2022 19: 00
      It was the nationalization of enterprises that caused the devastation of the 1920s. Are you bored?
      1. 0
        21 February 2022 06: 25
        Quote: ch28k38
        It was the nationalization of enterprises that caused the devastation of the 1920s. Are you bored?

        This is a long conversation ... but first I will say that it is not necessary to nationalize everything in a row .. Enough only energy raw materials and industry-forming enterprises ...... and the rest is a tax on luxury
  9. 0
    9 February 2022 07: 58
    Well, the meaning of all these gestures with plywood machine guns, the appeal of women and territorial defense is to create a media picture for the Western audience and hysteria for the domestic consumer. So don’t giggle, some exalted juvenile personality, resembling such classes, will really be imbued with the spirit of Svidomo Ukrainianism, the goal is not to put them in the field against Russian tanks, but to educate a new type of personality Ukrainian vulgaris, although you can put them in the field, free for the picture and proud people against Putin's Mordor.
  10. +8
    9 February 2022 08: 09
    It is easy to see that the situation has not fundamentally changed over the past eight years. Attempts to establish domestic production of the necessary products have largely failed, and opportunities for the purchase of foreign products remain limited. Nevertheless, it is possible to get help from foreign partners in the form of direct deliveries or purchases on preferential terms.

    Actually, in addition to the Soviet legacy, Ukraine itself makes weapons, ranging from copies of Tavors to large-caliber rifles. Plus there are foreign deliveries.
    It would be interesting to read about production volumes / deliveries and models, but Ukrainians are unlikely to write about it, and there is no time to look for it yourself.

    The article is so-so. Well, they laughed at the wooden machine guns on the NVP - and that's okay, in modern times, this will pass for an article about weapons.
  11. -3
    9 February 2022 08: 30
    Guns and machine guns. Outdated weapons of the Ukrainian army as a trend

    Not only this. The entire army of Ukraine is outdated and handouts from abroad and instructors do not save the situation, but only give false hope.
  12. +9
    9 February 2022 08: 42
    Full-time and freelance propagandists - agitators are working, even the keyboards are on fire. Every day a series of identical, as if carbon-copied, empty articles and the same comments from the same characters, how in Ukraine they die of hunger and vegetate with a cold death, that it will never be accepted into NATO and the EU, that all allies have abandoned it, there are no weapons and what doesn’t - doesn’t shoot, because it’s old and rusty, but what shoots - shoots in the wrong direction and not like that, and so on and so forth ...
    Just some kind of propaganda hysteria. Are they trying to convince themselves?
    1. +5
      9 February 2022 09: 49
      hi

      Civil (Vadim)
      Today, 07: 10
      Yesterday on TV they said that the Sumerian military was preparing to attack the LDNR. And only in response will RA attack.
      - "Keyboards are on fire", people don't even know what to expect. IMHO, the people are already ready for the Sumerian chariots in Ukraine, as they say, but Pasaran, Gilgamesh and Enkidu will not pass!

      And it’s not about the Russian Federation to write news, in the morning you open RBC, and there “the main thing for the night”:
      "1. In 2021, state contracts for a total amount of 1,01 trillion rubles were canceled in the construction sector, according to the National Association of Builders, which represents the interests of more than half of the country's construction companies. This is 26% of the total of all state construction contracts concluded last year, and almost 20% - by the number of such contracts.
      The main reason is the rising cost of building materials, due to which contract estimates no longer correspond to market realities: it became simply unprofitable for contractors to perform work at the price specified in the contract.
      2. Russia's economy could be damaged even if it does not invade Ukraine, analysts at S&P and Fitch think. Both agencies, in the event of an escalation, warn of the risk of restrictions for non-residents to conduct transactions with Russian government bonds on the secondary market, restrictions for companies in the energy and mining sectors, as well as sanctions against large financial institutions in Russia.
      However, Fitch's base case assumes that a full scale invasion will not occur. Nevertheless, the agency notes that tensions around Ukraine have increased the risk of conflict and the imposition of more serious sanctions, which could be triggered by local military actions and cyber attacks.
      S&P also sees tough sanctions as a "very negative scenario". But even if they are not implemented, the threat of sanctions will affect long-term growth and weaken Russia's integration into the world economy."
      https://www.rbc.ru/ins/society/09/02/2022/62033fb59a7947be30a670a7?from=from_main_3

      But it seems that no one in Russia is interested in Russia. But the Sumerians in Ukraine and the Maxim / DP27 machine gun in the same place - yes, interesting news. request
  13. +3
    9 February 2022 09: 19
    And why, in fact, is it bad to distribute old weapons to the auxiliary units? For many auxiliary units (like a vokhra or a construction battalion), revolvers and Berdanks, in general, are enough, because the gun is there only for status.
  14. -1
    9 February 2022 09: 43
    Well, then the Americans sent a whole board of machine guns and cartridges to them .... they will not let the "militia" disappear ...
  15. +11
    9 February 2022 10: 21
    Reserves are being prepared. For them, at first, weapons are not necessary. Tactics of action can be worked out in this way. Live firing exercises are the highest level of combat training; at least six months later, training is carried out.
    The MT-12 guns are also in service with us. Yes, they are outdated, but they will hit the side, it won’t seem enough to anyone. And not every ATGM will take a modern tank in the forehead.
    A weapon, even a three-ruler or "Maxim" shoots with real bullets, brings death. What difference does it make to a fighter if he dies from the latest M4 or DP-27 centenary?
    I want to remind you that the Wehrmacht began to conduct exercises when it had nothing yet. Officers gathered in a tent, received tasks, carried them out. There weren’t even telephones to call aviation, and there was no aviation yet, but there were exercises. When the technique appeared, people already knew how to use it and what to do. We know the result.
    So there’s no need to make jokes about this. We need to sound the alarm, show that Ukraine is being militarized, impose some kind of sanctions. However, we probably can’t influence anything. Many chances have been missed. My sister in Ukraine, her husband serves in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Somehow I don’t want to fight with relatives. Yes, and there’s no point in fighting. But this is so, by the way. Full of stoned Natsiks who will be happy to kill people under Nazi slogans.
    1. 0
      20 February 2022 19: 03
      In addition to tactics, there is also such an important discipline for training as fire. For purely civilians, I decipher: confident handling of weapons and the ability to shoot accurately.
      1. 0
        20 February 2022 19: 10
        What are you talking about?
  16. +2
    9 February 2022 10: 29
    It's not clear who is in the photo.
    This photo is from last year, and the territorial defense has just begun to form this year.
    Someone in civilian clothes, someone in camouflage, the insignia is not visible. If these are civilians, then it is clear that they could not give weapons.
  17. +4
    9 February 2022 11: 24
    I don’t know about “maxims”, but for a second the MT 12 is still in service with the Russian army. Pieces 500 according to open data at least. And how many storage bases ....
    Not so old by the way. A very useful item.
    1. 0
      9 February 2022 13: 15
      Quote: ian
      I don’t know about “maxims”, but for a second the MT 12 is still in service with the Russian army. Pieces 500 according to open data at least. And how many storage bases ....
      Not so old by the way. A very useful item.

      "Maxim" with water cooling in a stationary position in defense is also not bad.
      1. +1
        11 February 2022 16: 18
        Yes, even Lewis or Thomson. In any case, this is a fairly reliable and serious automatic weapon.
        Near Moscow in December 41 museum 6 inch guns of 1877 were used. With a close gap, German tanks turned over, and when they hit the forehead, they pierced through.
        I don’t think the Germans laughed at their antiquity ...
        1. 0
          20 February 2022 19: 07
          6-inch - this is 152 mm in a modern way, by definition during the war - not even divisional, but corps artillery with a projectile weighing about 60 kg.
      2. 0
        20 February 2022 19: 05
        And if there is no water in the tap and a stream nearby?
    2. +4
      9 February 2022 16: 02
      And the American is still armed with a large-caliber Browning 0.5. He is over 100 years old.
      Stitches bulletproof armor. As 100 years ago, so now. The machine gun is simple, accurate, reliable
      1. 0
        9 February 2022 20: 46
        Something suggests that these machine guns are already in service with Ukraine.
  18. 0
    9 February 2022 12: 36
    What caliber wooden machine guns do they have there? And then I want to send cartridges, but I don’t know the caliber crying
  19. +3
    9 February 2022 14: 18
    And, for breaking news, everything will do.
    People have a short memory, they don’t remember that for 5-6 years the same media stated that they didn’t have weapons at all and would never have them (as well as visa-free travel, and then bacon, vodka, sugar, seeds, gas, and so on ...)
  20. +1
    9 February 2022 14: 37
    Not a single smart comment. The invisible hand of the exam is felt. That is, stocks of obsolete weapons in warehouses in the Russian Federation are for the antique dealer shop. It is necessary to know tritely what military structures are in Ukraine and what they are armed with, respectively. And do not confuse the armament system of the mobilized herd in 14-15 years and contract soldiers now. Before the war, the Germans also ran with plywood mock-ups, then they ran to Moscow, probably, is there something in this?
    1. +3
      9 February 2022 16: 49
      Of course, there will be no smart comments on the situation with which there is nothing more to take except for neighing. And there is no need to compare with pre-war Germany, where Hitler was primarily concerned with restoring the industrial potential, and in Ukraine they are concerned about finding what else to steal. The lessons of history must be remembered, but it is also necessary to analyze the current situation.
      1. 0
        9 February 2022 21: 58
        The main lesson of history is where the Germans suddenly got a large cadre army. From such funny courses.
        1. 0
          10 February 2022 11: 27
          And where did she (a large cadre army) disappear after the First World War? In my opinion, everything is simple, it was enough for the idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbnational revenge and distribute weapons. And the youth behind their fathers, inspired by the "eastern hectares" and the first victories, stood in line at the military registration and enlistment offices on their own. But where did so many modern weapons come from, the question is much more interesting.
          1. 0
            12 February 2022 09: 32
            You're not right. After the First World War, they created an analogue of DOSOAF and carried out mass training of youth with German meticulousness. The soldiers of the First World War have grown old in 20 years.
            1. 0
              12 February 2022 16: 29
              Are you old? Men 38-44 with combat experience, do you think these are old men? Which are no good compared to the younger ones trained in courses like DOSOAF? Seriously? laughing
              1. 0
                13 February 2022 10: 02
                There is nothing to think here. Who will run 100 meters faster - a young guy or a man in his forties with a beer belly and kidney stones? The practical value of running 100 meters is either to throw in an attack or to run to cover when firing. For example, a Grad projectile gives 7 seconds. You can check yourself for survival))))
                1. 0
                  13 February 2022 10: 53
                  Did you run a lot of hundred meters on the front line? laughing
                  1. 0
                    13 February 2022 18: 18
                    It's not about the number of times or the length of the distance, but in time and you can joke on the Internet with "experts" or not in time, and then everything is very sad.
  21. 0
    9 February 2022 16: 06
    "In connection with such problems, the army and other armed structures are forced to get out of storage and return to operation long-obsolete samples. In addition, in some situations it is necessary to use not weapons, but their replacement. So far, all this can be considered isolated cases, but in the near future such cases can develop into a real trend." In a year, the West can completely re-equip them with relatively new models of rifles to supply tens and hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition, like thousands of anti-tank missiles and grenade launchers, as well as clothing equipment, optics equipment and everything else. All this is already being brought to Ukraine by Western transport aviation at full speed.
  22. +1
    9 February 2022 16: 40
    Quote: glory1974
    It is necessary to sound the alarm, show that the militarization of Ukraine is taking place, impose some kind of sanctions

    What is the anxiety? What are the sanctions? Our trade with Ukraine increased last year...
  23. 0
    9 February 2022 17: 30
    I have read this essay. Understood nothing.
    Dear editorial board of VO!
    Please advise me what to do:
    1. be proud of Ukraine
    2. rejoice that everything is so bad in Ukraine
    3. think about how to save traffic and your time without reading such "works" crying
    1. +1
      9 February 2022 18: 19
      hi
      Eco "pushed" you from the article ....
      Before it's too late, read from the site (advertising on VO) about American nervous breakdowns: https://warfiles.ru/236844-kak-russkie-istrebiteli-doveli-pilotov-nato-do-nervnogo-sryva.html?yrwinfo=1644419714755490 -5469110946124938753-sas2-0116-sas-l7-balancer-8080-BAL-6866

      And about the destruction of Ukrainian aviation: https://topwar.ru/191998-amerikanskij-obozrevatel-schitaet-chto-ukrainskim-vvs-povoevat-ne-dovedetsja.html?yrwinfo=1644419812207867-10626051179725151005-sas3-0990-dcd-sas- l7-balancer-8080-BAL-6421

      As soon as you start to rejoice at how bad everything is in Ukraine (item 2 of your list), stop reading (it means "let go").
      1. 0
        9 February 2022 18: 54
        I regret to inform you that you fall under point 3
        1. +1
          9 February 2022 19: 24
          I agree, sorry... feel
  24. 0
    9 February 2022 20: 07
    Let them dig in the fields near Poltava! There must still be Swedish guns left ...
  25. PPD
    0
    9 February 2022 20: 09
    Training with imitators is, hmm, an interesting form of training.
    As I understand it, the airball samples are over? Or did they join the troops?
  26. +2
    11 February 2022 20: 43
    "Ruta" is the name of the 1a31 radar sight, installed on the modification of the "Rapier" - MT-12R (2A29R), the RLPK is made on an outdated element base and is most likely faulty in most cases. I do not know the number of kits issued, but there is reason to believe that there are only a few of them in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    1. 0
      20 February 2022 19: 11
      I was also surprised by the name "Ruta", because during my service in the artillery, the MT-12 was called exactly "Rapier".
  27. 0
    12 February 2022 12: 15
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Quote: pishchak
    It's good that the bloodthirsty Banderva lacks reliable Soviet PCs

    Grabs them. Ukraine had the largest warehouses in the USSR.

    Then they were sold to third countries.
    So it's still missing...
  28. 0
    14 February 2022 23: 28
    Ragulis run here to throw minuses and then merge similarly, because on the merits of the issue they cannot object to anything
  29. 0
    12 March 2022 20: 01
    Anyone who calls Maxim, DP-27 or K98 or Lee Enfield "Obsolete" has never been under fire from these weapons. I'm speaking from personal experience. When your platoon or squad is armed with M4, M249 (or AK-74 and RPK74, there is no difference), and they open fire on you from 600-800 meters from Maxim or DP-27, you won’t do anything to them. Even if you reduce the distance to 400m. It will be difficult for you not only to hit, but also to break through those barriers behind which the enemy is hiding. But their K98 or, God forbid, MG3 (they came under fire from this one once ... Paul of the WIA or KIA platoon didn’t catch it, but I thought that everything, Khan, jumped. But you won’t be able to get them. Lee Enfield with 400m is much more powerful than AK74 or M4. And it doesn’t matter that you will answer 4-5 for each of his shots. You won’t corny pierce what he is hiding behind. But Lee Enfield will pierce your helmet with 400m, along with the head. And you yourself, on in the other world you will console that you were killed with a caliber 303 and not a brand new 308. It won’t be easier for you.About what kind of holes in the human body makes 7.92 or even 303 or 7.62x54 - look what such a bullet does with the femur and in general with the leg. I saw compared to what full-size rifle cartridges do with a person, 7.62x39 looks very weak.Given the tendency of 5.56 to ricochet off obstacles, and 7.92 breaks through these obstacles. from an old Garand (I saw it in Afghanistan) If you don’t know, don’t tell.
    No need to laugh at the T12 gun. She won’t take a tank in the forehead, but an armored car will take out an infantry fighting vehicle / armored personnel carrier to hell. Along with everyone who was there. I don't understand where this hatred comes from. You yourself are substituted for the question "If the Armed Forces of Ukraine are so bad with weapons, why did your offensive bog down?" And it choked, promotion is minimal. The question is - if the APU is so bad even with machine guns, why did you stop? There are no reasons for "grunting", from the word at all. Once again, your article puts you under the question "If you have ukroshvinen, everything is so bad with weapons, why did your offensive bog down?"
    Half of the articles about the war in Ukraine makes me remember an old drawing from the Chechen era, EMNIP. On which a distressed Hitler says "I never taught them anything." And I didn't learn :-(