Marksmanship Weapon: Baker's 1800 Infantry Rifle

167

Marksman Sharpe with a Baker rifle. A still from one of the many films about his adventurous life

“Well, let’s prove now, in the face of all this tribe of Delaware, which of us is the best shooter!” shouted the scout, striking the muzzle of his gun with the finger that had pulled the fatal trigger so many times. “Do you see, Major, the gourd bottle that hangs on that tree over there? If you're a border guard shooter, you'll beat her.
The Last of the Mohicans by James Fenimore Cooper

History firearms weapons. The cycle on the history of the uniform aroused great interest among the VO readership. But - and this is natural, during the discussion of this topic by readers, questions arose related to the weapons of the same British "red coats". About the murderous "darkie" - the most productive flintlock gun in the history of wars, that is, the Brown Bess gun, on our website material has already been, about the Fergusson rifle (a rifle with a "hole in the treasury") we also wrote. Now, of course, it turns out that we need to talk about the Baker rifle. That's what we're talking about today...


1805 Baker Rifle (1800-1830) Participated in the Battle of Waterloo. Length: 1167 mm, barrel length: 747 mm, weight: 3,78 kg. Old Tower Collection, London

And it so happened that the wars in the North American colonies (1775-1783), about which James Fenimore Cooper spoke so poetically and picturesquely in his novels, as well as the Franco-British war (1793-1802), showed the British military that they can't do without rifled weapons. Therefore, the British government in 1798 decided to develop and adopt a regular rifled gun. At the same time, in 1800, the first regiment of the Rifle Brigade was created, the soldiers of which were fully armed with new rifles with rifled barrels.




The same rifle. Front view

Its official name was: "Pattern 1800 Infantry Rifle" (infantry rifle of the 1800 model of the year), but more often it was called simply "Baker Rifle" or "Baker's rifle".

This weapon was made by the master Ezekiel Baker, who had previously been engaged in custom-made rifled guns for English gentlemen and even wrote a book called: “Notes on Rifles”. The rifle was tested, found to meet all the requirements, and, although its price was very decent, it was immediately put into service. So the British army received the most modern rifled gun for those years.

“In 1800, the Board of Ordnance commissioned the chief arms manufacturers in England to manufacture the best rifle for use in the Rifle Corps (95th Regiment) set up by the government. Among those who were chosen for this occasion, they also wished to see me. A committee of field officers was appointed to review and draw up a report in accordance with their opinion. Many rifles came from America and Europe, and they were all tried out at Woolwich. After which my barrel, which had only a quarter-turn thread in the rifle, was approved by this committee.

“It was noted that the barrel of my rifle was less prone to fouling from frequent shots than full-turn, three-quarter or half-turn rifle barrels, which was considered a great advantage for the Rifle Corps, especially in combat, since they would not require frequent cleaning. . Moreover, he had all the advantages of other guns in terms of accuracy and fighting power at a distance of three hundred yards. For all these reasons, the committee gave preference to my barrel, and recommended to the Board of Ordnance that my rifle be accepted into service.
Ezekiel Baker

Indeed, Baker only claimed the rifling system as his own. Outwardly, his rifle had much in common with the rifles of that time, which were in service for up to twenty years or more. Basically, they had seven grooves in the trunks, and the trunks themselves were 30 inches long and caliber from 0,60 inches to 0,70 inches. One rotation of the bullet for 30 inches gave the bullet a faster rotation, which in theory should have provided better accuracy. However, such barrels required frequent cleaning, which, for example, in the same battle was completely unacceptable.


Baker rifle 1800-1820 View from the left. Length: 1160 mm, barrel length: 766 mm. The barrel is cut, so that the rifling along it is clearly visible. Collection of the old Woolwich arsenal. London

Baker's first rifle was musket-sized and caliber and was rejected as too bulky. The first of many improvements was a reduction in barrel length and overall size, as well as a reduction in caliber to .0,625 (the "standard" rifle bore for the time, given that the standards then were not held in the same way as they are now).


Baker rifle 1800-1820 Right view. The door of the container for ... "salty rags" is clearly visible. Collection of the old Woolwich arsenal. London

“When the 95th was first formed, I made some guns the size of muskets so that they could be supplied with ammunition, if necessary, from any infantry regiment that might be near them. The commander, Colonel Manningham, as well as all the officers of the regiment, objected to this, since heavy guns required too much effort when shooting and bothered people because of their excessive weight on the campaign.
Ezekiel Baker

I must say that structurally, the Baker rifle was not much different from traditional infantry rifles with a smooth barrel. Moreover, he took the gun of the German rangers "Jäger rifle" as the basis for the rifle. However, it was quite noticeably different from the same Brown Bess musket, primarily in its compactness and some external changes and improvements, so it was completely impossible to confuse them when picking up.


A rifle with a split barrel. Front view. Old Tower Collection, London

Because it was a rifle, the bore was rifled and had seven right-handed, spiraling rifling along which the bullet could make a quarter turn before leaving the barrel. As for the firing mechanism and flintlock, they were standard for the time when all European military rifles were equipped with French “battery-type” locks.

Although the rifle was intended for particularly accurate shooting, the sights on it were the most primitive and consisted of a rear sight with a triangular slot and a pointed front sight.


Shooter Sharpe again with a Baker rifle in his hands

The stock of the rifle and the buttstock were distinguished by the high quality of the workmanship, and the walnut wood was a match for him. A semi-hidden chute for a ramrod was made in the forearm, which was inserted into two tubes. A characteristic feature of the buttstock was a container cut out on it on the right side, covered with a hinged lid on a latch, intended for storing salted pieces of fabric needed to wrap a bullet in them before hammering it into the barrel. One belt swivel was located in front of the forearm, and the second was placed on the trigger guard (which had a protrusion under the fingers for greater ease of holding), in front of it.

The bayonet of this rifle differed from the needle bayonets adopted in England. This was a long cleaver with a 61 cm long blade and a characteristic D-shaped handle. A scabbard worn on a waist belt relied on a bayonet. A special bracket was provided for attaching the bayonet to the muzzle of the barrel on the right. The blade of the bayonet mounted on the barrel was located vertically, which was an ill-conceived decision, in this case it could get stuck between the ribs. It was necessary to fasten it to the back of the handle, with the blade horizontal. But Baker didn't think of that for some reason.


Bayonet for Baker rifle. Pay attention to the saw on the back of the blade. Collection of the old Woolwich arsenal. London

The barrel and flint lock, as well as the ramrod, and both swivels were made of steel. Details such as the trigger guard, both ramrod tubes, the butt plate, the butt cap, as well as individual elements of the “fittings”, were traditionally made of brass.

Baker's rifle was supposed to be muzzle loaded. In this case, the lead bullet was placed on an oiled wad, and then it had to be flattened with a ramrod and a special wooden mallet, which was originally included in the shooter's equipment. However, they soon decided to abandon the hammer, considering that just a heavy ramrod would be enough, since the bullets were made of very soft lead!

At that time, it was a very light, very durable, comfortable, and in all respects very high-quality weapon, which, compared with smooth-bore guns, was distinguished by both a greater firing range and accuracy. True, only very few shooters could make more than two aimed shots per minute out of it, but this was quite enough. Well, her lead bullet weighing 31 grams (where is the famous “nine grams in the heart” before her!) Not only delivered a strong stopping blow when it hit, but also led simply to terrifying wounds, which, due to gangrene, almost always led to death. exodus.

It is known that from 1800 to 1810, the Baker rifle underwent minor changes in the design of the stock, flintlock four times, and the length of its barrel was increased from 762 to 813 mm.


Baker's carbine. Length: 892 mm, barrel length: 495 mm, weight: 2,72 kg. Old Tower Collection, London

At the same time, in 1801, a shortened model (cavalry carbine) was also created with a barrel length of only 480 mm and an original latch for the ramrod, which did not allow it to fall out from shaking. This carbine was not equipped with a bayonet. There was no bracket on his trunk for mounting it.

Baker originally made the rifle chambered in .65 (16,5 mm). In 1807, a .75 (19,5 mm) caliber army model was made, but in 1830 it was decided to return to .65 caliber. The recommended weight of gunpowder is from 4,5 to 5,5 grams.

The rifle proved itself so well that both regular British troops and various military formations of states friendly to Great Britain began to arm it. Rifle regiments armed with this rifle fought in the Iberian Peninsula and participated in the Battle of Waterloo in 1815.

The performance characteristics of the Baker rifle were as follows:
Length: 1162 mm
Barrel length: 762 mm
Weight: 4,1 kg
Muzzle velocity: 304 m/s
Rate of fire: 1-2 rds / min
Sighting range: 200 m

Despite the fact that the rifle performed well in battle, the bulk of the British infantry continued to be armed with the Brown Bess. There were two main reasons: a complete rearmament would be too expensive, and besides, many senior officers simply did not see the point in increasing the accuracy of shooting. Volley fire and the moral shock that it produced on the enemy - these are the main trump cards of the trained infantry, they believed. At that time, a trained British soldier could reload a Brown Bess every 15 seconds, that is, four shots per minute!


Baker's Cavalry Carbine 1827. Total length: 904 mm, barrel length: 504 mm, weight: 2,82 kg. Old Tower Collection, London

Tests conducted in 1811, when shooting at a target in the form of a wooden wall imitating an infantry line, showed that at a distance of 100 yards (91,44 m) this target accounts for 53% of hits, at 200 yards (182,88 m) - 30% hits, 300 yards (274,32 m) gives only 23% hits. Taking into account the psychological burden on a soldier in combat, we can reduce the accuracy of combat by 20% at all distances, which will give us 100% at 33 yards, 200% at 10 yards and 300% at 3 yards. From this, the conclusion was drawn, firstly, about the advantage of the first salvo, and secondly, that ... the very first salvo would somehow disable 30% of the enemy’s infantry, and his return fire would, accordingly, weaken! That is, a correctly chosen firing time in just one minute could decide the fate of the battle! Therefore, the extra time needed to load rifled weapons was considered by most British officers as wasted.


Experienced primer rifle Baker, 1815-1825. Length 1161 mm, barrel length 767 mm. Old Tower Collection, London

That is why, despite the excellent fighting qualities, relatively few Baker rifles were produced: for the entire time, about 22 rifles and carbines. Nevertheless, she remained in service with the regular army of Great Britain for 000 years. Until it was replaced with the Brunswick rifle in 37.
167 comments
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  1. +7
    30 January 2022 05: 30
    Thank you for the article. Very interesting.. Write more. hi
    1. +7
      30 January 2022 08: 02
      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
      Write more.

      That's all I do. You can read the second article in the WEAPONS section
    2. +5
      30 January 2022 12: 07
      Sharp shooter series of my childhood
      1. +2
        30 January 2022 13: 50
        Quote: Clever man
        Sharp shooter series of my childhood

        At one time, the series about Sharp was not included, and therefore ignored books about him. At the same time, it is very good for other works of Bernard Cornwall.
        In fact, I opened a book about Arrow Sharp after reading all the other works of the author. The impression remains ambiguous. Compared to Starbuck, King Arthur and the 100 Years War, it's rubbish.
        Bernard's works like Agincourt and Stonehenge are as different as diamonds from cobblestones.
        So you can read the Sharpe saga, after all, 21 books, but I sincerely would like to see the continuation of the story of Nat Starbuck from Bernard's pen! Unless, of course, the author dares to continue it !!!
        1. +3
          31 January 2022 11: 52
          In the series with Sharpe, the fat man was still hanging out, his friend. The fat man had a more impressive multi-barrel system) who knows what it is?
          1. 0
            31 January 2022 17: 12
            I have disclosed the information below.
  2. +11
    30 January 2022 06: 43
    Good morning everyone! smile
    I sincerely thank Vyacheslav for this article. smile She is in his style, interesting, beautiful, informative, in general, what you need for a weekend morning. good
    1. +7
      30 January 2022 08: 02
      Kostya, welcome. Didn't Springfield charm you?
      B O understood this and got it, hid it under the counters, Baker
      1. +5
        30 January 2022 08: 08
        Baker is history, and Springfield is expensive junk. smile
        1. +3
          30 January 2022 08: 18
          Poor V. O spent so much effort on advertising, and you: "expensive consumer goods."
          Actually, I like old guns better too. It's interesting to see how guns have evolved.
          The ramrod mount resembled the "three-ruler"
          1. +4
            30 January 2022 08: 26
            This Three-ruler reminded Baker. laughing
  3. +6
    30 January 2022 08: 06
    "left view. The trunk is cut" V. Oh, it seems to me more appropriate to say: "top view"
    1. +5
      30 January 2022 08: 14
      Quote: vladcub
      more appropriate

      More appropriate. We see an error.
  4. +7
    30 January 2022 08: 06
    The blade of the bayonet mounted on the barrel was located vertically, which was an ill-conceived decision, in this case it could get stuck between the ribs. It was necessary to fasten it to the back of the handle, with the blade horizontal. But Baker didn't think of that for some reason.

    A strange reproach to Baker, on almost all rifles from the end of the XNUMXth century to the present day, the bayonet blade is located vertically. Although, perhaps, the matter is in the too large size of the Baker bayonet?




    1. +4
      30 January 2022 08: 10
      Well, this is wrong! So the bayonet can get stuck between the ribs. If horizontal, then WILL NOT STOP! Now SO the bayonets are set to maintain alignment. The main thing is shooting! No one is walking around. But then even the shooters had to walk with hostility ... and the location of the bayonet mattered.
      1. +10
        30 January 2022 08: 25
        In World War I, everyone went to bayonet attacks regularly, however -



        1. +5
          30 January 2022 10: 02
          Reproach!
          And where are the native rifles of the "model of 1891"?
          1. +5
            30 January 2022 10: 09
            And there is a needle bayonet, and it doesn’t matter how to fix it.
            But please. smile
            1. +4
              30 January 2022 10: 19
              Good morning!
              Still, on the Western Front, they relied more on artillery. But it turned out that she was not omnipotent.
              And they started to invent various special stages for defense or storming an enemy trench.
              Batons, trench knives.
              With a long rifle, you won't turn around much.
              In the East, there was more "movement" - they either advanced or retreated.
              There was less artillery in the RIA, fewer shells.
              Same with machine guns.
              The generals had one hope - For the miracle hero and his bayonet-well done!
              At the same time, the Russian carbine was not equipped with a bayonet ...
              Only rifles!
              And the allies had "any firing" with a bayonet. The same "shorties" from Berthier!
              1. +6
                30 January 2022 10: 26
                Batons, trench knives.
                With a long rifle, you won't turn around much.

                The Italians in the 15-0th year came up with such a thing.
                1. +3
                  30 January 2022 10: 35
                  Trench cut?
                  The Italians are still "inventors".
                  What the Russian will explain with a couple of "capacious phrases" to the Italian is "wave and wave your hands."
                  1. +8
                    30 January 2022 10: 40
                    Nevertheless, they, "waving their hands", were the first with p / n, and the Russians, with "a couple of capacious phrases", were somehow not very good.
                    True, Fedorov was with his machine gun, but I had in mind specifically p / p.
                    1. +4
                      30 January 2022 10: 46
                      RI did not produce pistols and partons for them!
                      Where does the idea of ​​PP come from?
                      The idea of ​​your own light machine gun did not "emerge", but you, Konstantin "about the PP" burn "!
                      And the Italians could see it was "tense" to drag their "machine guns" through the mountains, so they came up with an "ersatz machine gun" on pistol cartridges.
                      And the Russians through the fields, swamps, mountains with an infantry rifle and a "maxim" on wheels - they are "wonderful heroes"!
                      1. +6
                        30 January 2022 10: 53
                        RI did not produce pistols and partons for them!


                        Wow, what are we talking about. laughing

                        Italians ..... so they came up with an "ersatz machine gun" on pistol cartridges.


                        The Germans, they also came up with everything out of laziness. wink



                        True, three years later than the Italians.

                        Then it came to the Russians, only even later. belay

                      2. +1
                        30 January 2022 11: 27
                        Konstantin!
                        You forgot the prototype of the PP on the cartridges from the "Nagant".
                        And he was before PPD-34.
                      3. +9
                        30 January 2022 11: 50
                        By the way, you won't forget that. wassat I just meant already quite serial samples.
                        And then, you can get to this guy.
                      4. +1
                        30 January 2022 15: 35
                        If they had not established the production of TT and cartridges for it!
                        They could well have set up small-scale production of PP on a cartridge from the Nagant.
                        As the first self-loading rifle Degtyarev.
                      5. +2
                        30 January 2022 17: 07
                        Lyosh, I'm sorry, this doesn't even sound like a Jewish joke. Sori. smile
                      6. +1
                        30 January 2022 18: 03
                        And the attempts of intelligence of the young state of Israel to arrange "riots in Egypt" in 1954 are drawn to a Jewish anecdote?
                      7. +4
                        30 January 2022 18: 11
                        This is no longer a joke, but politics, and if I am not mistaken, we are talking about the production of submachine guns for a cash cartridge.
                        And then it turns out - "There is an elderberry in the garden, and an uncle in Kiev."
                        By the way, I liked Kiev, but khokhly are stubborn people, even though my father is a khokhol myself, it was difficult to talk to them, and this was the beginning of the seventies.
                      8. +1
                        30 January 2022 18: 23
                        Then why don't you like the PP on the Nagant cartridges?
                        Difficult to manufacture. Expensive in terms of money. But in small batches they could well master its production.
                        But of course it’s good that they took care of the production of their own pistol and the production of cartridges for it!
                        PPD-34/38 were not cheap. But they were released. And then they launched a competition for software of a simpler design.
                        And the Red Army received PPSh-41.
                      9. +4
                        30 January 2022 18: 31
                        Then why don't you like the PP on the Nagant cartridges?

                        I don't like it at all. Imagine a pouch with magazines full of Nagan cartridges in battle, fighters on the run, dust, dirt, whatever - in what condition is the whole economy? This is not a revolver, where one muscular strength is enough. It will clog everything with mud, sand, or other rubbish, and the Nagan cartridge seems to be specially adapted for this.
                        As you like, but this idea has no life in the line troops.
                      10. +2
                        30 January 2022 18: 54
                        "Cancer is a red fish swimming with its tail forward"!
                        First, they would release a certain number. And then they could take care of a pistol and cartridges. Everything depends on the restoration of the economy and the resistance of the "bourgeois forces"!
                        Perhaps it helped that another economic crisis erupted in the world and the "heat of passions" on the borders of the USSR subsided a little.
                      11. +3
                        30 January 2022 19: 22
                        With regard to cancer, the question is simple - either she agrees, or she likes a different position, and the color is not important here, the question is in mutual understanding. laughing drinks
                      12. +2
                        30 January 2022 19: 28
                        If standing, then a woman standing, if about cancer, then fatal ...
                        From an old vulgar joke. drinks
                      13. +3
                        30 January 2022 19: 38
                        It doesn't matter, what matters is what you need. The rest is all lyrics - let the poets write poetry, the prose of life is always more relevant. A woman must be loved, otherwise everything does not make any sense.
                      14. 0
                        1 February 2022 23: 04
                        ... If lying - then positive ..
                        - Listen, Gogi, if you fucked me for a bag of raisins, does that mean I'm an amazing man ???
                        And if on the topic, then the first PPDs were with carob stores, but then there was the Finnish War, where Dates used their PPs with tambourines very effectively. And it was decided to make PP with tambourines - at least they used dates, so that from the bushes, in a partisan way. shoot at our soldiers .. I don’t remember the exact title of the book (and there’s no way to ask without calling the deceased), something like “Unknown War in Documents and Decisions”.
                      15. 0
                        30 January 2022 18: 56
                        Then why don't you like the PP on the Nagant cartridges?

                        The fact that it is not suitable for PP as much as possible - it is flanged, and the bullet is recessed into the sleeve, which will greatly complicate the supply of a cartridge from the magazine to the chamber - the edge of the sleeve will rest against the edge of the chamber.
                      16. 0
                        30 January 2022 19: 20
                        F. V. Tokarev managed to cope with this problem.
                        It was not accepted into service, but WikiWiki reports the release of a batch of 300 to 600 pieces.
                        And allegedly some copies of the bvli were used on the Kalinin front in 1942.
                      17. +1
                        31 January 2022 17: 23
                        it’s a pity that self-loaders based on the PPT-27 did not go into series, a good carbine for the price of two pistols was cool
                      18. +2
                        30 January 2022 11: 14
                        Not only in RI there was no PP. The French or Britons also did not have PP
                        It's just that the "pasta" was the first to think of it
                      19. +4
                        30 January 2022 11: 32
                        The French or Britons also did not have PP

                        Romanians and Papuans didn’t have them either, it’s not about that, but about who said “meow” first. Yes
                      20. +3
                        30 January 2022 11: 41
                        The first "meowed" Italian
                      21. +5
                        30 January 2022 11: 49
                        The Italians originally invented it for the aircraft for use on the machine

                        And only then they tried to adapt it for the ground, on bipods, while leaving the easel in design. You can imagine what accuracy was without emphasis on the shoulder and without a machine tool!
                      22. +5
                        30 January 2022 11: 54
                        All right smile
                        You can imagine what accuracy was without emphasis on the shoulder and without a machine tool!

                        And it didn’t matter, it was important that the number of bullets fired by this machine per minute was designed for this.
                      23. +1
                        30 January 2022 19: 04
                        No one expected sniper fire from him, but should he shoot at least approximately at the enemy?
                        Initially, the design for the machine for the plane, and without changing it, they simply screwed the bipod, leaving the bundles, like Maxim
                      24. +1
                        30 January 2022 19: 18
                        So that's what I'm talking about, what am I arguing? smile
                      25. +3
                        30 January 2022 12: 20
                        Quote: Avior
                        The Italians originally invented it for the aircraft for use on the machine


                        And only then they tried to adapt for the earth

                        On the contrary, it was
                      26. +1
                        30 January 2022 19: 01
                        Please correct me if something is wrong
                        Villar Perosa aircraft submachine gun

                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villar_Perosa_aircraft_submachine_gun
                      27. +3
                        30 January 2022 19: 36
                        Quote: Avior
                        if something is wrong

                        The plant in Villar Perosa was the supplier of bicycles for bersaglieri bicycle parts.
                        This PP was created according to their application for a light machine gun that can be transported on a bicycle. So he was born



                        With the start of the war, the army experienced an acute shortage of classic machine guns and it was decided to use this device as an ersatz replacement. They created various prototypes for military branches, including aviation. : training calculations, developing tactics for use, exercises and testing at ranges, etc. Logistics for use in aviation was much simpler in this regard.
                        Hence the false opinion that the device was born as an aviation one.

                        In the linear units of the army, it was not very successfully used because it absolutely did not pull in terms of performance characteristics to the main machine gun. But on the other hand, it showed itself perfectly as a trench broom of the Arditi assault units created in 17. They modified it for themselves - they removed the shield, developed the "bipod ", special belt, etc.

                        The Austrians were also impressed by the machine gun and, on the basis of several captured ones, they created their own samples for attack aircraft




                        If you're interested, here's a lot of detail and lots of photos.
                        http://firearms.96.lt/pages/Villar_Perosa.html
                      28. +1
                        31 January 2022 01: 45
                        Your link is interesting.
                        As far as I understand, the link does not exactly describe this situation. It says that the myth is that the weapon was originally intended exclusively for aircraft. But in fact, from the very beginning, its use on the ground was also taken into account, including for Berceleri bicycles. Actually, the development of this weapon was not a plant in Villar Perosa, a branch of Fiat, but the designer Abiel Revelli, who positioned him, and behind him the army, as a universal tool.
                        Berceliers really tried to order different rapid-fire weapons for bicycles, and this PP too. But it seems that in order to shoot from it, you had to have not feathers, but four hands - otherwise it’s difficult to shoot and hold the bike at the same time :))
                        Better quality photo version.

                        That is, the berselers ordered the installation of a bicycle machine gun :) with an existing machine gun, and not the development of a machine gun for their own needs. As is aviation.
                        There were other versions of its application.

                        smile
                        And its first real application is in aviation.
                        That is, it turns out, the truth is in the middle
                        drinks
                      29. +1
                        30 January 2022 19: 17
                        But as? Interesting to hear.
                    2. +4
                      30 January 2022 11: 23
                      "a couple of capacious phrases" somehow not very "out of harm, but who believed that the PP: "police weapon". Probably V.K. Nikolai Nikolaevich or Marshal Petain?
                      1. +6
                        30 January 2022 11: 46
                        By the way, not only Kulik considered p / p police weapons, in many countries there was exactly the same attitude towards him, the Finns then convinced everyone.

                        Yes, and in some places the p / n was just considered an ANTI-police weapon. laughing
                      2. +2
                        30 January 2022 12: 30
                        Remember Bonnie and Clyde. Although they didn’t have Thomson, but still one period
                      3. +3
                        30 January 2022 16: 08
                        The Yankees "tested" their "Tommy Guns" on the Nicaraguans.
                        With the "democratization" of the latter in the 30s of the 20th century.
                        And more seriously, PP was used by the Bolivians against the Peruvians. And the Germans commanded the Bolivians.
                        Returned later to Vaterland.
                        Their "notes" on the use of PP were studied and taken into account!
                        Soviet border guards used "tommy guns". Limited, but applied.
                        But fighting on the plains is very different from fighting in the forest or mountains. Also, "Suomi" was not armed with every Finn.
                        Rifles and only rifles!
                        PP for DRG and officers.
                      4. +3
                        30 January 2022 17: 05
                        Soviet border guards used "tommy guns".

                        I know.
                        During the "second jihad" the Basmachi also had these cars, they called them - "Tapson". I have no idea where they got the ammo from.
                        Also, "Suomi" was not armed with every Finn.

                        Just like not every German MP-38/40.

                        "Rifles and only rifles!" (c))))))
                      5. Alf
                        -1
                        30 January 2022 23: 12
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Rifles and only rifles!

                        But in the Red Army and the US Army, SELF-LOADING rifles, and not ordinary ones, were made the main weapon.
                      6. +1
                        30 January 2022 23: 40
                        And when, from what year did self-loading weapons become the main weapon in the Red Army? Can you provide comparative data on the number of SVT and ABC in relation to the Three-rulers?
                        Garand, by the way, in terms of quantity, has not surpassed the usual Springfield.
                      7. Alf
                        -1
                        31 January 2022 00: 07
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        And when, from what year did self-loading weapons become the main weapon in the Red Army?

                        PLANNED since the 38th.
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Can you provide comparative data on the number of SVT and ABC in relation to the Three-rulers?

                        Who is to blame that the eighth-grader in the USSR before the war was in the minority? For 40-41 years, SVETOK produced 1,6 million pieces. And they all went to the First Echelon, and it was the SVT that was taken as the main weapon of the infantry with the cessation of the release of the Mosinka.
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Garand, by the way, in terms of quantity, has not surpassed the usual Springfield.

                        Wrong.
                        There have been 3,2 million of all Springfields produced since 1904. By the time WW2 began, there were 1,5 million of them, which means that from 41 to 45, 2,7 million Springfields were made.
                        Garand was adopted only in the 41st year and before the 45th they were made by 4 million. Now the question is, in which parts of the US Army was Garand the main weapon and which parts were armed with Springfields? Personally, I almost did not come across a photo where parts of the first echelon ran from the M1903.
                      8. +1
                        31 January 2022 05: 54
                        Do the Philippine units of the US Army belong to the first echelon?
                      9. Alf
                        +1
                        31 January 2022 19: 02
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Do the Philippine units of the US Army belong to the first echelon?

                        So yes. I consider units of the first echelon that were in direct contact with the Japanese in combat. But not drivers, gunners, signalmen.
                      10. 0
                        31 January 2022 20: 20
                        So these same Filipino units were 100% equipped with Springfields.
                      11. Alf
                        0
                        31 January 2022 20: 33
                        Quote: hohol95
                        So these same Filipino units were 100% equipped with Springfields.

                        Let's clarify. Are the Filipino units of the US Army, units manned by locals or units of the US Army located in the Philippines?
                      12. 0
                        31 January 2022 21: 33
                        Filipino units of the US Army staffed from the local population.
                        July 26, 1941 introduced into the US forces in the Far East.
                        Also, the "Springfield" M1903 was in service with the American units stationed in the Philippines.
                      13. Alf
                        0
                        31 January 2022 21: 49
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Filipino units of the US Army staffed from the local population.
                        July 26, 1941 introduced into the US forces in the Far East.
                        Also, the "Springfield" M1903 was in service with the American units stationed in the Philippines.

                        Well, there’s nothing to talk about the natives, just remember the Liberator pistol ...
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Also, the "Springfield" M1903 was in service with the American units stationed in the Philippines.

                        Before the start of the war? Garand entered service only in 1940.
                      14. 0
                        31 January 2022 23: 33
                        Natives... under the command of Yankee officers!
                        Why did the Marine Corps buy 30000 Johnson rifles from a Dutch order for colonial troops in Indonesia?
                        From love to M1 "Garand"?
                      15. Alf
                        0
                        1 February 2022 18: 57
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Aborigines... under the command of Yankee officers

                        And so it was always and everywhere - sepoys composition, white officers.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Why did the Marine Corps buy 30000 Johnson rifles from a Dutch order for colonial troops in Indonesia?

                        Again. Garand entered production in 1940, the war began at the end of 41. It is always difficult to sharply increase the production of weapons, but they were needed "yesterday ago." In addition, Jackson's rifle was also self-loading. So it happened, the KMP urgently needs to be armed, there is no time for production, Holland is occupied, the East Indies, the customer, too, the rifles have already been made and in terms of their performance characteristics they are no worse than Garand.
                      16. 0
                        1 February 2022 19: 48
                        The M1903 was discontinued in 1936.
                        M1 "Garand" began to be produced in September 1937! 10 pieces per month.
                        Since March 1938 - 20 pieces.
                        And in 1940, the ILC tested the M1 "Garand", the Jackson rifle, the M1903 "Springfield" and an experimental self-loading from Winchester.
                        "Garandas" have been produced for almost 3 years.
                        And all the reliability tests "proposed" by the ILC during landing or dousing with liquid mud M1 failed! Like the Winchester rifle.
                        And "Jackson" showed more acceptable reliability for the ILC. Like the M1903.
                        And at the time the USA entered the war, M1 and M1903 were about 50/50!
                        And in 1942, they again launched the production of the M1903 model A3 and produced it until 1945.
                      17. Alf
                        0
                        1 February 2022 19: 55
                        Quote: hohol95
                        M1 "Garand" began to be produced in September 1937! 10 pieces per month.
                        Since March 1938 - 20 pieces.

                        After that, the company drowned in a stream of complaints, and the finished model began to be produced precisely in the 40th year.
                        Quote: hohol95
                        And all the reliability tests "proposed" by the ILC during landing or dousing with liquid mud M1 failed! Like the Winchester rifle.
                        And "Jackson" showed more acceptable reliability for the ILC.

                        The disadvantages of the Johnson rifle were greater sensitivity to contamination due to automatic moving barrel, the impossibility of using a standard bayonet, and the lower availability of spare parts [3]. Also, the Johnson rifle proved to be less reliable and more prone to breakage than the M1 Garand.

                        Vika is lying?
                        On December 21, 1935, the creation of paramilitary formations under the command of American officers began here,

                        What I was talking about.
                        During World War II, Springfield rifles were the main small arms of the Philippine units of the US troops,

                        That's where they went.
                        And in 1942, they again launched the production of the M1903 model A3 and produced it until 1945.

                        There are two use cases.
                        1. Army snipers.
                        2. To Aboriginal units, rear services and the National Guard.
                      18. 0
                        1 February 2022 20: 03
                        "In search of an American-style rifle" warspot.ru.
                      19. Alf
                        0
                        30 January 2022 23: 11
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        By the way, not only Kulik considered p / p police weapons

                        Not true. It was Kulik who stood up for providing the Red Army with submachine guns.
                      20. 0
                        30 January 2022 23: 36
                        Yeah, only after the war with the Finns. Look at the date of your post, and then at the year of issue of the PPD.
                      21. Alf
                        +2
                        30 January 2022 23: 44
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Yeah, only after the war with the Finns.

                        I agree. Then bring me a document or a photo of a quote where Kulik calls the PP a police weapon and opposes it in the Red Army.
                        And now the fun part.
                        Yes, the document is dated December 3, 40. But ! The meaning of this document is not that PP is needed or not needed, but which one is better.
                        In addition, it seems like Tukhachevsky was against the PP, but not Kulik.
                        P.S. Are we like you?
                      22. +1
                        31 January 2022 17: 06
                        Vasily, hello! smile
                        give me a document or a photo of a quote where Kulik calls the PP a police weapon and opposes it in the Red Army.

                        Where can I find it now? So much has been read and re-read. request
                        By the way, you also sometimes stray into "YOU", so let's move on to a hard "poking". smile drinks
                      23. Alf
                        +1
                        31 January 2022 19: 00
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Where can I find it now? So much has been read and re-read

                        Good evening ! Bone, come on. I believe you, so your word that you saw will be enough for me. But just clarify what you saw - was it a photo of the document or did someone say somewhere?
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        By the way, you also sometimes get lost on "YOU",

                        I'm sorry, I'll fix it...
                      24. +1
                        31 January 2022 19: 44
                        As far as I remember, I read it from someone. For some reason, only A. Bolnykh comes to mind, but I can't vouch for the accuracy. request
                      25. Alf
                        +1
                        31 January 2022 19: 46
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        As far as I remember, I read it from someone. For some reason, only A. Bolnykh comes to mind, but I can't vouch for the accuracy. request

                        That's it ... How many times this question was asked to different people and no one was able to document it, everyone said "heard somewhere." No offense.
                      26. +1
                        31 January 2022 19: 54
                        No, what insults ... smile Here, as in that joke about a witness in court: "If I had known that there would be a court, I would have measured everything and recorded it ..." request
                    3. +3
                      30 January 2022 12: 38
                      And about the "main character" of the Baker rifle article - what could the Russian soldiers oppose to Sharpe's shooter?
                      Sharpe did not "brick" his rifle!
                      1. +2
                        30 January 2022 12: 53
                        "There is a Russian word in the world,
                        Well, how can you not know him,
                        There is a big Russian word,
                        It sounds "...." (c)
                        Further, to the extent of your own imagination. laughing
                        With which they have always fought.
                      2. +2
                        30 January 2022 15: 34
                        "what could Russian soldiers oppose Sharpe's arrow", and then they were allies, perhaps some units also had English weapons
                      3. +3
                        30 January 2022 16: 40
                        Quote: LisKat2
                        "what could Russian soldiers oppose Sharpe's arrow", and then they were allies, perhaps some units also had English weapons

                        For the war with Napoleon, the British sold us 100000 guns! For an entire army...
                      4. +3
                        30 January 2022 17: 24
                        ... which then had to be urgently repaired and not all reached the troops.
                      5. +1
                        30 January 2022 17: 40
                        I read in Rodina magazine about "what camultuks" the British sold to the Russians!
                        That's scrap metal!!!
                        Were the Baker rifles among those 100 British guns?
                      6. 0
                        30 January 2022 19: 09
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Were the Baker rifles among those 100 British guns?

                        I do not know.
                      7. 0
                        30 January 2022 19: 10
                        Quote: hohol95
                        "what kamultuki"

                        Where did the military receivers look?
                      8. +2
                        30 January 2022 19: 22
                        The military receivers looked into the purses given to them by the British arms dealers.
                        This is my personal opinion!
                      9. -1
                        30 January 2022 20: 53
                        Quote: hohol95
                        This is my personal opinion!

                        Then it has nothing to do with the quality of the guns! As they say - there is nothing to blame on the mirror, if the face is crooked!
                      10. +2
                        30 January 2022 21: 02
                        So in WWI, the "crooked face" helped some to enrich themselves.
                        And in Russian-Japanese.
                        Some purchases of rotten canned meat in the United States cost many state rubles!
                      11. +1
                        31 January 2022 07: 14
                        Quote: hohol95
                        So in WWI, the "crooked face" helped some to enrich themselves.
                        And in Russian-Japanese.
                        Some purchases of rotten canned meat in the United States cost many state rubles!

                        When there is a lot of money, there will always be 20% of people for whom patriotism is an empty phrase. It has always been so. And will be. The build doesn't matter.
                      12. +2
                        31 January 2022 07: 45
                        Was there a lot of money in RI?
                        Why then were they not allocated for the development of a high-explosive fragmentation projectile for the "three-inch"?
                        And they didn’t load arms factories with work, but forced them to reduce production?
                        First, NO money.
                        Then a LOT of money.
                        "Weird design..."
                      13. +4
                        30 January 2022 17: 48
                        Because it was sorely lacking. It got to the point that the guns were taken away from the dragoons and given to the militia. From that moment on, dragoons in the Russian army ceased to exist as a type of cavalry.
                      14. +1
                        30 January 2022 19: 25
                        So they left melee weapons.
                        And they left the horses.
                        Why not cavalry!
                        Why do they even need carbines.
                        And then they were awarded the "dragoon three-ruler model"!
                      15. +1
                        30 January 2022 19: 34
                        Why do they even need carbines.
                        Because dragoons, by definition, are a branch of the armed forces trained to operate on horseback and on foot. Much could be fought on foot with one edged weapon in this era?
                      16. +1
                        30 January 2022 19: 38
                        The horses were not taken away!
                        All questions to those who were responsible for the domestic military-industrial complex!
                        Then they remembered something similar in WWI. Only then they took away the "three-rulers", and gave out Arisaki or other rifles that would not particularly help on the front line.
                      17. +2
                        30 January 2022 21: 46
                        Once again, Alexey!
                        The value of the dragoons lay in the dualism of their use on the battlefield. After the expropriation of guns, the result was "medium cavalry". Even under Nikolai Palych, they were notably mocked at them.
                      18. +2
                        30 January 2022 20: 04
                        Quote: LisKat2
                        "what could Russian soldiers oppose Sharpe's arrow", and then they were allies, perhaps some units also had English weapons

                        At least domestic hussars were armed with fittings. Only in 1812 they were transferred from the cavalry to the militia.
                        Separate teams of rangers and mounted dragoons had rifled weapons. A certain number was also assigned to infantry skirmishers.
                        So there were rifled weapons in the Russian army of the 1812 model.
                        By the way, unlike the French.
                      19. +3
                        30 January 2022 20: 10

                        Jaeger fitting.
                      20. +1
                        30 January 2022 21: 10
                        There were fittings.
                        Just now I came across information - since 1808, failed fittings were replaced with simple infantry rifles!
                        It turns out that the industry could not establish production and repair.
                      21. +1
                        1 February 2022 04: 27
                        Quote: hohol95
                        There were fittings.
                        Just now I came across information - since 1808, failed fittings were replaced with simple infantry rifles!
                        It turns out that the industry could not establish production and repair.

                        In the "fairy tales" from 1790 about the supply of the garrisons of the Chebarkul and Chelyabinsk fortresses, the Swedish fuzes of the beginning of the Northern War are mentioned. Ridiculously and sinfully, our domestic "peers" took place in the field regiments back in the first decade of the 19th century.
                      22. +1
                        1 February 2022 15: 09
                        During the "advent" of Napoleon and Co., the Russian army had small arms of 28 different calibers !!!
                        And not only domestic.
                        Prussian, Austrian, British...
                      23. +1
                        31 January 2022 21: 40
                        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

                        Jaeger fitting.

                        Good for those times!
                      24. +1
                        30 January 2022 21: 21
                        The French are out of luck.
                        Technical problems in the production of threaded fittings have not been overcome.
                        But they released 12000 pieces.
                        And how many rifled fittings and non-commissioned officer screw cutters were released in the Republic of Ingushetia arr. 1805?
                2. 0
                  3 February 2022 10: 39
                  Common sense itself suggested not very convenient Pitchfork / Steam locomotives to dismember in half and limit the bed. It would be nice to make a descent ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. +1
            30 January 2022 18: 22
            I think that you are right, and that is why bayonets began to be attached to rifles the way they are still attached to them, without any regard for "the blade getting stuck in the ribs."
      2. +1
        30 January 2022 18: 19
        Quote: kalibr
        Well, this is wrong! So the bayonet can get stuck between the ribs.

        Actually, it depends on how the fighter strikes. If you poke forward with your eyes closed, then there is probably such a problem. But in those days, fighters were taught bayonet fighting for a reason.
        1. Alf
          +2
          30 January 2022 23: 16
          Quote: Saxahorse
          But in those days, fighters were taught bayonet fighting for a reason.

    2. +3
      30 January 2022 09: 09
      "too large", but was the bayonet for the Lebel rifle really small.? It's 90 years later!!
      I noticed that the bayonet with a saw. It is possible that the sappers used. I can’t remember similar bayonets of that time now.
      1. +4
        30 January 2022 09: 44
        similar bayonets of that time

        There were many, these are typical.
        1. +2
          30 January 2022 10: 48
          I don't see saws
          1. +2
            30 January 2022 11: 16
            And for the saw on the bayonet, when the owner was captured, he was immediately sawed off with this saw. request
            1. +2
              30 January 2022 11: 44
              Sharpe was not sawn off. Or were the shooters with the "Bakers" not captured?
              1. +4
                30 January 2022 11: 56
                I haven't seen the movie and don't know the details. But I have a negative attitude towards the British, although I love their literature. drinks laughing
                1. +5
                  30 January 2022 12: 25
                  The film is colorful. And the plot is good. The army of Wellington in Spain "waving" Sharpe is a dashing shooter, he achieves officer epaulets, but at heart he is a simple soldier.
                  Are the Germans better?
                  1. +5
                    30 January 2022 12: 40
                    Starring a good actor Sean Bean. I liked him in Patriot Games, the first Jack Ryan movie, based on the novels of anti-Soviet hawk Tom Clancy.
                    1. 0
                      30 January 2022 15: 00
                      Do not remember that. We read only the "correct" writers: Voynich: "The Gadfly", Ostrovsky's "Red Landing"
                      Sholokhov? Suspicious type: "Mish, you are a counter" (c) gi gi.
                      Seriously, I didn't look.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. +2
                        30 January 2022 23: 34
                        I fell for Sean Bean precisely after the show about Sharpe the shooter. His characters are constantly being killed.
                  2. +2
                    30 January 2022 12: 45
                    Cinema is also cinema in Africa. request
                    1. 0
                      30 January 2022 15: 02
                      Especially if there are beautiful girls
                      1. +3
                        30 January 2022 15: 30
                        They are all fresh there, not spoiled by civilization. smile

                      2. +1
                        31 January 2022 06: 31
                        Her face is pretty
                      3. +2
                        31 January 2022 17: 16
                        Yes, and in general everything is very good. wink
                      4. +2
                        31 January 2022 21: 45
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Yes, and in general everything is very good. wink

                        And this chicken is not bad!
                      5. 0
                        1 February 2022 15: 27
                        I agree. The bullshit is black. More specifically, it is dark brown.
                        I didn’t have any “interest” in black
                      6. 0
                        1 February 2022 15: 36
                        They are very different, on some "interest" arises at first sight. laughing
                      7. +1
                        31 January 2022 21: 44
                        Quote: vladcub
                        Her face is pretty

                        And a cool notch!
                      8. 0
                        31 January 2022 21: 52
                        "Rich" girl. laughing
                2. +1
                  30 January 2022 15: 20
                  Similarly, whiskey, but more Scottish, Guinness, English pipe, Irish tobacco, tweed, brogues, literature, Manchester United, but I don’t like the English since childhood.
                  1. +2
                    30 January 2022 15: 33
                    but I do not like the English since childhood.


                    1. +1
                      31 January 2022 21: 47
                      N-yeah! her face is very expressive...
                      roots are clearly middle eastern
  5. +4
    30 January 2022 09: 38
    Thanks Author. I did not know about such a massive use of rifles in the British army.
  6. +6
    30 January 2022 10: 22
    The bayonet of this rifle differed from the needle bayonets adopted in England. This was a long cleaver with a 61 cm long blade and a characteristic D-shaped handle. A scabbard worn on a waist belt relied on a bayonet.

    For all the time that the Baker rifle was in service with the British army, it was equipped with three types of bayonets.

    In this photo, the bayonet that the Baker rifles were originally equipped with is at the bottom. But he created problems when shooting, so he was replaced with a cleaver.
    The cleaver in 1815 was also replaced with the next sample.
    1. +1
      30 January 2022 11: 36
      And the bottom one, it seems, was attached just horizontally
      1. +4
        30 January 2022 12: 05
        Yes, it seems.

        By the way, it turns out that there was also a fourth type, of which about 2000 were made.
  7. +2
    30 January 2022 10: 23
    And I have Rifle firmly associated with jeans. Once upon a time, I was sitting in the reading room of the library, in front of me was a mamzel in jeans, you could see the label. I looked in the dictionary, Rifle, as well as robbery. guess what the name means. And the lady's legs turned out to be beautiful even without jeans.
    1. Alf
      0
      30 January 2022 23: 18
      Quote: Free Wind
      And I have Rifle firmly associated with jeans. Once upon a time, I was sitting in the reading room of the library, in front of me was a mamzel in jeans, you could see the label. I looked in the dictionary, Rifle, as well as robbery. guess what the name means. And the lady's legs turned out to be beautiful even without jeans.

      In the library, you need to think about books, not about legs. laughing
      Although, at the sight of beautiful legs, the thought moves from the upper intellectual center to the ZKP ...
  8. +5
    30 January 2022 10: 34
    Marksman Sharpe with a Baker rifle. A still from one of the many films about his adventurous life


    Only in this film, all rifles are modern replicas made specifically for this film by ACCESS HERITAGE Inc.
    1. +4
      30 January 2022 10: 54
      "modern replicas" Vic Nick, where do you get so many Bakers?
    2. +2
      30 January 2022 17: 54
      And during the filming of the feature film "Lord of War" military weapons were used. It turned out to be cheaper to buy it than to make dummies!
  9. +3
    30 January 2022 11: 39
    Regarding the film about Sharpe's shooter.
    I remember, if I am not mistaken, at some point his fighters were armed with multi-shot rifles (or guns), which were taken away from them, replaced with single-shot ones, as it was not supposed to.
    1. +3
      30 January 2022 12: 36
      Quote: Avior
      repeating rifles

      7 barrel?
      1. +6
        30 January 2022 16: 05
        In the British Navy, as I remember before the Napoleonic wars, they adopted a multi-barreled boarding gun. The book also featured a similar instance.
        I'm afraid to make a mistake, it seems Hawk's seven-barreled musket.
        1. +4
          30 January 2022 19: 05
          Why are there 7 trunks? The bigger, the better ! ...




          By the way ... the 7-barrel is not Hoka, but Noka!
        2. +2
          30 January 2022 23: 54

          Nock Volley Gun - Nock Volley Gun
          Perhaps my memory failed me too - they write that only Sergeant Harper had him, and not all the soldiers of Sharpe's company.
          hi
          1. 0
            31 January 2022 18: 05
            Thanks for the info
      2. +2
        30 January 2022 17: 07
        Yes, as far as I remember.
        1. +2
          30 January 2022 19: 47
          I usually write from memory, apparently I made a mistake.
        2. -1
          31 January 2022 09: 53
          I don't remember that detail anymore.
  10. +2
    30 January 2022 13: 53
    ... intended to store the greasy pieces of fabric needed to wrap the bullet in them before driving it into the barrel.

    As far as I know, pieces of leather were used to wrap the bullet in the beginning.
    1. +5
      30 January 2022 14: 25
      As far as I know, pieces of leather were used to wrap the bullet in the beginning.

  11. +2
    30 January 2022 15: 16
    "They decided to abandon the hammer * I watched Sharpe and I remember how he changed his mind there in order to load these guns faster
    1. +1
      30 January 2022 19: 52
      Quote: LisKat2
      "They decided to abandon the hammer * I watched Sharpe and I remember how he changed his mind there in order to load these guns faster

      A feature of the Baker rifle was that it was possible to shoot extremely quickly - at the musket (without wrapping the bullet with oiled paper). In this case, it was enough to hit the ground with the butt.
  12. +1
    30 January 2022 18: 35
    Hmm ...! At all times in different regions there were "famous" guns, which are weapons symbols not just of a historical period, but also of a certain territory! Kentucky rifles, Brown Bess, Buccaneer guns, Siberian "Suzgunki", "Bur-303" ... And it would be very interesting to continue the list with the South African (Boer) "Babuyanbat" and the "Dutch" (Boer) "royer"! Very little is known about the "royer"! ... This is a Dutch rifled gun popular with the Boers with a 6-sided barrel (possibly with polygonal "rifling" ...) of the late 18th and first half of the 19th centuries, loaded from a muzzle of 12 mm caliber and , perhaps higher (12,7-15,24 mm ...) ... was also used during the Anglo-Boer wars, and was appreciated by the Boers! I think if any of the "gunsmith writers" can sensibly describe this gun ; thereby proving that he is not a "copycat from the Internet", but a "cool man"...!
    Better known is Bobbejaanboudt (Babuyanbet, "Baboon ham") with a caliber of 2,1-2,54 cm, loaded from the muzzle ... yes, it is smooth-bore, but very popular with the Boers! In addition, some of the guns had straight ("false") rifling, which is why some "weapon" historians even considered "baboonbets" rifled! Such guns became popular with the Boers in order to effectively resist the five "African monsters" (lions, buffaloes, elephants, hippos, rhinos)! Large caliber and increased hardness bullets due to tin (80% lead and 20% tin) left no chance for the impudent elephant! they preferred to load their guns 1,5 m long on horseback, resting the butt on the ground, "fortunately" that they were tall (1,42 m at the withers) ...
    1. +3
      30 January 2022 19: 16
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      I think if any of the "gunsmith writers" can sensibly describe this rouge;

      To sensibly describe, you need to hold it in your hands, and if there is no holding in your hands, then there will only be a description from the Internet!
      1. +2
        30 January 2022 19: 52
        Actually, I didn't mean you when I mentioned "Internet cheaters"! At that moment, some other "weapon authors" were recalled ... and not even only in VO! I somehow tried to collect information on the "royor" with the image, but it did not work out to the fullest! So he said that the one who collects the full information will demonstrate "aerobatics"! Moreover, apparently, the "echoes" of the impression from recently reading one "weapon" article had an effect! hi
        1. +2
          30 January 2022 20: 50
          The rhyme just came together, so I wrote it. By the way, I didn’t look for information on this gun anywhere ... and there is very little of it. And there are no good photos. You have to look in the museums of South Africa, and this is very troublesome.
      2. 0
        1 February 2022 10: 20
        Yes, you are a poet
    2. +2
      30 January 2022 21: 59
      Better known for Bobbejaanboudt

      There is nothing "legendary" about this flintlock musket. The products of local handicraftsmen, assembled from dissimilar locks and trunks brought from England and made from local wood stocks. Sometimes the trunks, however, were forged by local blacksmiths. Apparently, no two of them are the same.
      1. +2
        31 January 2022 00: 46
        Well, what can I say? Someone loves Krakow sausage, and someone loves pork cartilage! Do you think that there is "nothing "legendary" in this flintlock musket"; and someone on the Internet describes "the unique South African Boer gun" Baboon Ham" ...!

        Yes, the locks were "imported" ... and part (!) Of the trunks ... but the Boers bought what they needed ... and supplied them with the "import" that the Boers requested! And even now ... how many riflemen in the world are made according to the same principles; but different "manufacturers" have "their" weapons! (http://ursa-tm.ru/forum/index.php?/topic/397987-okorok-babuina-unikalnoe-ruzhe-yuzhnoafrikanskih-burovdzen/)
        1. +3
          31 January 2022 08: 02
          and someone on the Internet describes

          What is not described on the Internet. On the Internet, derivation with a bayonet is compensated in all seriousness, and they believe in Tartaria.
          1. -1
            31 January 2022 10: 00
            We have Tartararians and stubborn
          2. 0
            31 January 2022 11: 19
            1. And why is "Babuyanbet" especially worse than the "famous" "Brown Bess"? And there ... butt, flintlock, smooth barrel, muzzle loading! 2. You can call the "mass" of weapons where the same type of shutter is used, for example, longitudinally sliding ... only with variations ... but this does not prevent "classifying" weapons by country and "model"! 3. There are many examples when a weapon was developed in one country (and has its own model name (sample), but for its production it is necessary to order separate components, for example, barrels, in another country-state ...
            4. And the story (and portrait) of the president of the Boer Republic and the description of the battle between the Boers and the Zulus, is also a fiction of the writers of Tartaria?

            Paul Krueger.
            On December 16, 1838, the so-called. The battle on the Bloody River between the Zulus (10 thousand soldiers) and the punitive detachment of the Boers (464 white fighters and about 200 black servants) under the command of Andris Pretorius. On the night of December 15-16, the Zulus surrounded the Boer camp, and in the morning launched a mass attack with cold weapons.

            Pretorius built a huge Wagenburg from his 57 wagons, along the perimeter of which he placed shooters with loaders behind their backs. For each shooter with a team of assistants, there were about three guns, and in the hottest moments of the battle, they managed to release 1 charge every 5 seconds. It is believed that a significant part of the Boers’ shooting arsenal consisted precisely of “baboon hams.” Huge-caliber bullets at medium distances could cripple several soldiers at once, and at short distances of 2 cm, the barrels generously bombarded the shot, which mowed down the Zulus, preventing them from approaching the melee distance fight. The Boers, in addition to guns, also had a light cannon, but still the main role that day was played by small arms. As a result of 3 unsuccessful attacks, the Zulus retreated, losing about 3000 soldiers killed and wounded, the losses of the Boers amounted to only 4 people wounded.
            1. +2
              31 January 2022 11: 41
              And what is especially worse than "Babuyanbet" "famous" "Brown Bess"

              Yes, nothing worse. And no better. I cannot understand your excitement. Do you want to consider this elephant slayer some kind of legendary weapon? Am I against it. People don't believe in that.
              I just happened to be in those parts and there was no reverence around this musket.
            2. 0
              1 February 2022 10: 23
              I thought the Zulus were defeated by a drankel and a shrankel with their tank from a pun magazine?))
  13. +3
    30 January 2022 20: 39
    At that time, a trained British soldier could reload a Brown Bess every 15 seconds, that is, four shots per minute!

    Thanks for the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    I met information that Frederick the Great considered the norm to fire five - five and a half shots per minute. If this is so, then it turns out that the British did not shine with preparation ...
    Four shots is good, but not great fellow
  14. +1
    31 January 2022 00: 53
    The blade of the bayonet mounted on the barrel was located vertically, which was an ill-conceived decision, in this case it could get stuck between the ribs. It was necessary to fasten it to the back of the handle, with the blade horizontal.

    I do not know...
    The vertical location of the blade does not mean at all that it is impossible to plant it horizontally between the ribs.
    I remember training in bayonet fighting at the KMB at the school. This is a practical experience from the platoon commander - paratrooper. As I remember now, one cadet was cut well with a bayonet-knife during these trainings, but they managed to take him to the hospital. hi