Benefits and expectations. Finland chooses F-35A fighter

77

HX program logo and its participants. Finnish Defense Ministry graphics

On December 10, Finland officially announced the results of the HX Fighter Program, the purpose of which was to select a new fighter-bomber for the Air Force. The winner of this competition was the American Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II aircraft. In the near future, the Finnish and American sides will clarify the conditions and conclude contracts, in accordance with which the construction and delivery of equipment will be carried out.

Update program


Currently fighter aviation Finland is represented only by American-made F / A-18C / D Hornet aircraft in the amount of about 60 units. Despite its obsolescence, this technique will remain in service for the time being. It is planned to operate until the end of the decade, but after 2025, the old Hornets will gradually be replaced with new aircraft.



Taking into account the future needs of the Air Force, in 2015 the Finnish Defense Ministry launched the HX program. Its goal was to find and select the best modern fighter that would meet the requirements of the Finnish army. As a result of the competitive part, it was supposed to sign a contract for 64 aircraft, weapons, maintenance, etc.

At the beginning of 2018, the final circle of participants in the competition was determined. Lockheed Martin offered Finland its F-35A aircraft, and Boeing entered the competition with the F / A-18E / F and EA-18G aircraft. The European industry was represented by the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale F4 and Saab JAS-39E / F fighters.

After studying the documentation on projects and various simulations, in early 2020, demonstration tests were held with the participation of equipment of all five types. Then the competition committee proceeded to analyze all the collected data, based on the results of which it was supposed to determine the winner. These works were noticeably delayed, and their results became known only now.


[Center]F-35 in flight. US Department of Defense Photo

In early December, the Finnish media, referring to their sources in the Ministry of Defense, reported that the F-35A Block 4 fighter became the winner of the HX competition. The official press release on this topic appeared on December 10. The military department confirmed the information already published, and also clarified the reasons for the choice made. It is reported that the American Lightning II has bypassed competitors in technical, combat and economic qualities.

Reasons for choosing


As reported, the competition committee used a rather complex system for comparing technology. The various parameters and characteristics of each of the aircraft were included in a complex formula from which an overall rating was derived. To get a chance to win the program, the applicant had to score at least 4 points. The F-35A received a rating of 4,47 and became the only one that managed to overcome the given barrier. The closest competitor scored only 3,81 points.

According to the Ministry of Defense, when evaluating and comparing the aircraft, various parameters were taken into account in four directions: the combat potential of the sample, its availability, supply issues and the participation of the Finnish industry in production.

In the context of combat use, the F-35A was completely satisfied with the Finnish Air Force. Tests and simulations have shown that he fully corresponds to the intended role and is able to solve all the issued tasks. At the same time, the tactical and technical characteristics, the composition of equipment and weapons will ensure effective combat work both immediately after entering service and in the distant future.

Finland plans to be most actively involved in the production of aircraft. At its enterprises, the assembly of the nose of the fuselage and, possibly, other components and assemblies of the airframe will be mastered. In addition, Finnish factories will take over the final assembly of the engines. Direct production will create a lot of jobs with a total workload of 4500 man-years. Another 1500 man-years will be required in related areas.


Lightning in winter. Lockheed Martin Photos

Also, the Finnish side plans to undertake most of the work on the maintenance, repair and modernization of aircraft. Finland will have new sites for such work, integrated into the general international network of services for F-35 aircraft. With their help, they are going to increase the reliability and stability of the operation of equipment.

It is curious that the F-35A was called the most cost-effective. It differs from other HX participants in the lowest purchase price and operating cost. Calculations have shown that the operation of the entire fleet of 64 aircraft will cost less than 254 million euros per year - approx. 4 million euros per board. The operation of other proposed fighters would be significantly more expensive.

Purchases and costs


In the near future, Finland is going to hold the remaining negotiations and conclude contracts with several contractors. First of all, there will be a contract with the Lockheed-Martin company directly for the supply of aircraft. They will also agree on the transfer of technology and the launch of the production of units at Finnish sites. There will also be contracts with suppliers of units, weapons, etc.

In total, they plan to spend 2030 billion euros on the Air Force rearmament program until 10, or 156 million for each new aircraft. 21 million have already been used for competition events. The rest of the funds will now be spent on the main tasks of the program.

Directly on 64 fighter F-35A Block 4 will spend 4,703 billion euros - less than 73,5 million apiece. The related equipment, the planned volume of spare parts, personnel training, technical support until 2030 will cost another 2,92 billion euros.

A large number of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons will be purchased for the new aircraft. These will be missiles AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-120 AMRAAM, AGM-158 JASSM, etc., as well as bombs JDAM, GBU-39 SDB, GBU-53 SDB II, etc. At the first stage, only AMRAAM and Sidewinder, and will spend 754,6 million euros on them. Further purchases will be determined by the development of aviation weapons and the needs of the Air Force. They will allocate 823,8 million.


The fighter is taking off. US Department of Defense Photo

Finland will have to prepare its own production facilities for participation in the construction, prepare the airfield infrastructure, establish a service system, etc. 777 million euros will be spent on these processes.

According to Finnish plans, the preparatory work will take several years. The direct construction of fighters will begin only by the middle of the decade, and the first machines will be handed over to the Air Force in 2026.The last batch is going to be accepted no later than 2030.The operation of the new Lightning II will continue until at least 2060.

Victory factors


The Finnish Air Force not only made their choice, but also explained it. The official announcement of the completion of the HX competition contains all the basic information about the advantages of the selected aircraft, and it is of great interest. In addition, this data has the potential to influence the international combat aircraft market.

Commenting on its choice, the Finnish Ministry of Defense points to the high tactical, technical, combat and operational characteristics of the American fighter. This is quite understandable and understandable, since The F-35A does have certain technical advantages, although it is not without its drawbacks. Advantages of this kind have already helped this aircraft to get into the Air Force of a number of foreign countries.

Information on the economic advantages of the selected aircraft is of great interest. Finnish experts have found that of all the participants in the competition, it is the F-35A that is the most profitable in terms of the cost of production and operation. This is unexpected, especially considering that the aircraft belong to different generations and differ significantly in the complexity of their design and equipment.


One of the first F-35A for the Norwegian Air Force. Probably, in the future, this machine will interact with Finnish aircraft. Photo by the Norwegian Ministry of Defense

An important competitive advantage was the readiness of the Lockheed-Martin company not only to sell finished equipment, but also to attract the customer to its production. Thanks to this, the Finnish side receives a kind of guarantee of meeting its needs, and the American side acquires a new lucrative contract.

Political issues should not be forgotten either. The USA and Finland are interested in mutually beneficial cooperation in various fields, incl. in the field of defense and security. The pending contract for the F-35A will allow the two countries to improve such relations - and to obtain known benefits. At the same time, plans to launch production at Finnish sites show the possibility of long-term fruitful cooperation.

The purchase of the F-35 will facilitate interaction with other countries within the framework of existing international military programs. A number of European NATO countries are planning or are already in the process of switching to such aircraft. Accordingly, in international operations, the Finnish F-35A will interact with the same type of foreign aircraft, which will give obvious advantages.

Airplanes of the future


Thus, Finland chose a new fighter, and at the same time determined the future of its Air Force for the next 40 years. In the coming years, it will carry out the necessary preparatory measures, and in the second half of the decade, a full-fledged process of rearmament will begin with the development of serial F-35A aircraft. Their operation will continue until the early sixties or beyond.

Whether it will be possible to carry out all these plans without difficulties and problems will become known in the future. In the meantime, it is clear that Finland intends to continue the development of its armed forces in general and combat aviation in particular. In the absence of its own engineering and production capabilities, it turns to third countries for help and at the same time tries to get the maximum benefits in all areas. Now hopes of this kind are pinned on the American fighter, and it is quite possible that it will justify them.
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  1. -28
    14 December 2021 18: 16
    We must ask our Foreign Ministry to give them 20 large boxes of condoms. And with a note: oh, you will be tormented with him!
    1. -27
      14 December 2021 18: 35
      They will suffer even without condoms, if at all they get to them.
  2. -21
    14 December 2021 18: 17
    When it falls somewhere in the shallow Baltic, it will be much easier for Russian special forces to dive in and hook a cable hook to Varshavyanka than in the Mediterranean ...
    1. +1
      14 December 2021 18: 29
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      When it falls somewhere in the shallow Baltic, it will be much easier for Russian special forces to dive in and hook a cable hook to Varshavyanka than in the Mediterranean ...

      Why go to Varshavyanka? You can go straight to the cart with horses recourse
      1. -14
        14 December 2021 18: 36
        Yes, you can just steal from the airfield.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. +7
      14 December 2021 18: 30
      Quote: impostor
      The neutral status of the Chukhonts is a noodle for those who are glad to be deceived. The degree rises from all sides. Illusion prevails over reason. And maybe the only way to bring it to life is to undermine all three stages with an output of 150 megatons. So that the seismic wave went around the ball 10 times, so that the crystal chandeliers swayed in unison at Beadon and Jens.

      Are they themselves mentally ready to sit out a nuclear winter in a bunker and even eat with toads? Or "what about us?" wassat
      1. -8
        14 December 2021 18: 35
        The gorilka on the beet simply MUST have a snack, the aftertaste is terrible. After testing on Novaya, no one went down to the bunker for the winter.
        1. +5
          14 December 2021 19: 50
          Quote: impostor
          The gorilka on the beet simply MUST have a snack, the aftertaste is terrible. After testing on Novaya, no one went down to the bunker for the winter.

          I don’t know, I haven’t tried it, I don’t drink alcohol at all)
          Do you exclude the possibility of retaliation? Do you think we can carry out the first disarming preemptive nuclear strike with complete impunity?
          1. -7
            14 December 2021 21: 25
            I don't think you can even create a dirty one. By the way, I started talking about a ground test on a sovereign territory.
      2. -6
        15 December 2021 15: 12
        And what do we lose? There is no gender equality, there is no democracy, it can go on for a long time. As in the old joke about admission to the party.
    2. -15
      14 December 2021 18: 30
      Hike, Zhytomyr boys are not satisfied with this option. They pass in silence, give them Konotop and Tsushima
      1. -15
        14 December 2021 18: 45
        Quote: impostor
        Hike, Zhytomyr boys are not satisfied with this option. They pass in silence, give them Konotop and Tsushima


        Yes, let them pass. Maybe diarrhea from fear that Russia will attack in January will pass. laughing
        1. -8
          14 December 2021 21: 19
          The level of Bendera's presence on this resource is simply off the charts.
    3. -14
      14 December 2021 18: 36
      Not just Can and Jens.
      150 megatons each and Erdogau, Scholz, Sanna Marina .... Justin Trudeau .... Ingrida Simonyte ... all 150 mgt.
    4. -9
      14 December 2021 18: 39
      Quote: impostor
      with an output of 150 megatons


      Our 50 megatons blew up. They thought that they had crossed the critical limit and an irreversible reaction began. Carried away.
      And you mean 150 megatons.
      1. -7
        14 December 2021 18: 45
        Chain deuterium in the world's oceans is a myth that has been refuted more than once.
      2. +1
        15 December 2021 12: 21
        They thought that they had crossed the critical limit and an irreversible reaction began. Carried away.

        What kind of "irreversible reaction"? The reaction of nuclear fusion requires a combination of enormous pressure and temperature (several million degrees Kelvin). As soon as these conditions cease to operate, the thermonuclear reaction also stops.
        Even the actual reaction of the deuterium charge itself in the bomb lasts for a few moments. As long as the detonation of the initiating nuclear charge provides the required pressure and temperature. Then - everything. A "thermonuclear chain reaction" in the atmosphere ... not that there can never be, but to create the necessary conditions, the impact on the planet of a supernova explosion close to this planet is required. Then something like this can happen and it can happen.
        1. 0
          20 December 2021 06: 05
          Quote: Terran Ghost
          What kind of "irreversible reaction"? The reaction of nuclear fusion requires a combination of enormous pressure and temperature (several million degrees Kelvin). As soon as these conditions cease to operate, the thermonuclear reaction also stops.
          Even the actual reaction of the deuterium charge itself in the bomb lasts for a few moments. As long as the detonation of the initiating nuclear charge provides the required pressure and temperature. Then - everything. A "thermonuclear chain reaction" in the atmosphere ... not that there can never be, but to create the necessary conditions, the impact on the planet of a supernova explosion close to this planet is required. Then something like this can happen and it can happen.

          Don't be so sure, comrade! Moreover, you are not a physicist. At one time, when thermonuclear weapons were developed and tested in the atmosphere, on water and underground, there was an idea to arrange an underwater thermonuclear explosion. But .... did not dare. And the problem was just the fear that the ocean waters could enter into a reaction. Whether it is true or not, physicists cannot reliably guarantee. Who will take responsibility from physicists that “we say we know everything in the physics of thermonuclear reactions, and that nothing will happen”? Are there such "experts"? Or maybe you will undertake to "guarantee"? There is a risk that the underwater explosion of a 150-megaton bomb will create sufficient temperature and pressure for short moments for some of the ocean's seawater to react. The entire ocean will certainly not explode, but several thousand tons of water may well enter into a thermonuclear reaction. Who is ready to prove otherwise? And several thousand tons of water is like several hundred 150-megaton bombs. And maybe several thousand of these bombs. How do you imagine such "consequences" for the Earth? Are we there, "we'll sit out in Siberia," even if it happens in the United States? How do you think?
          1. 0
            20 December 2021 09: 47
            There is a risk that the underwater explosion of a 150-megaton bomb will create sufficient temperature and pressure for short moments for some of the ocean's seawater to react. The entire ocean will certainly not explode, but several thousand tons of water may well enter into a thermonuclear reaction. Who is ready to prove otherwise? And several thousand tons of water is like several hundred 150-megaton bombs.

            By the time the 50-megaton bomb was tested on Novaya Zemlya in 1961, a whole series of tests had already taken place, during which nuclear charges were detonated not even over the surface of the water, but directly UNDER the water.
            No fears of this kind, which is typical, did not arise.
            In the case of "item 602" (the bomb that was supposed to have a power of a hundred megatons, but was tested in 1961 at half power), everything was much more prosaic. Half of the design (100 megaton) power of this charge was the third stage of the bomb - a shell of uranium-238, which, under the influence of a thermonuclear explosion occurring directly nearby, would first absorb neutrons, turning into plutonium isotopes, and then undergo a chain reaction of decay, releasing energy. The problem was that the above process is extremely "dirty" and takes place with the release of a large amount of radioactive decay products. The explosion of "item 602" in its "original" 100-megaton design threatened to "cover" populated areas of the European part of the Soviet Union with radioactive fallout, which was, of course, unacceptable. Therefore, the "third stage" was removed from the warhead, and the power was reduced to 50-57 megatons in TNT equivalent.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. -15
    14 December 2021 18: 31
    Russia already has both S-350 and S-400 in areas bordering Finland, so it's okay
    1. +4
      15 December 2021 00: 28
      Watch until enlightenment! Until it becomes a little scary:

      1. KCA
        -2
        15 December 2021 06: 31
        In the opinion of these analysts, is one radar worth it for the S-400? NuNu
      2. -5
        15 December 2021 08: 25
        Good morning. It takes quite a long time to prepare a modern aircraft for a COMBAT flight. Even if (as you believe yourself) air defense systems cannot detect F 35 at long distances (I will not try to upset you), there are many opportunities to see the preparation for departure in real time. to launch, you need to take off and gain a certain altitude and speed. Will our military sit and wait? Remember the parable "in the first place, not a lieutenant, but a lieutenant general." And how many Russians live in Finland, and what is their rank))))))
        1. +3
          15 December 2021 09: 12
          It takes quite a long time to prepare a modern aircraft for a COMBAT flight.

          - They are cooked in caponiers.
          Even though (as you believe yourself) air defense systems cannot detect F 35 at long distances (I will not try to upset you)

          - I will not be upset: I am aware of WHAT and HOW ... laughing lol
          To launch the aircraft, it is necessary to take off and gain a certain altitude and speed.

          - I saw a group of generals-second-leitnants, crawling on their belly around the airbase, that an F-35 squadron took off and flew away somewhere. We quickly called the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces: "So they say and so! We took off and flew away! Where - ХеЗ?? Wait. "
          What's next? lol

      3. +2
        16 December 2021 04: 08
        Murderous evidence.
        I wash my hands.
        You can.
        You know how.
        Bravo.
  6. +4
    14 December 2021 18: 34
    Eh, bean-club-log-log! But there was a time when the Finnish Air Force had "nashenskie" MiG-21s!
  7. -15
    14 December 2021 18: 48
    There was no trouble for the woman (in the sense of Finland), she bought herself a pig. lol
    1. 0
      20 December 2021 06: 13
      Quote: Ros 56
      There was no trouble for the woman (in the sense of Finland), she bought herself a pig.

      In short, as I understand it, only Russia has the right to have some kind of weapons ... The rest either "don't need", or "everything is useless for you" ... A man with an ax ... The rest are sheep ...
      1. 0
        20 December 2021 12: 30
        Yes, even if they buy a whole aircraft carrier together with these airplanes, I don't care from a high mountain. I'm talking about where the Finns are aiming and what it will cost them in terms of finance.
  8. -5
    14 December 2021 19: 08
    What does not take away from the Yankees is the ability to conduct business (although not in very honest ways).
    Again, gay Europeans, including the French, were shown where they belong, even in their own European market.
    1. +7
      15 December 2021 00: 26
      - Everything is much simpler and more prosaic: Rafale (for example) is an excellent fighter! The best among generation 4+, including in terms of maneuverability - no matter how strange it may seem to fans of super-maneuverability (with maneuverability has practically nothing to do with it! lol).
      It's just that the F-35 is better than any 4th generation fighter. (including Rafale) because it belongs to the 5th generation, - no matter how much he is "branded with shame" for low speed ("only" 1.67M) "sofa hamsters" ... laughing
  9. +9
    14 December 2021 19: 12
    We can say a logical choice.
    The plane of the new generation, not without jambs, but they will not receive it tomorrow, by that time they will understand how to fix it. In addition, in production and service, they have bargained for themselves some preferences ...
    In general, according to the totality of the advantages and the existing disadvantages, we decided that it would be more profitable this way.
    Were miscalculated or won ... the question may become clearer only with time.
  10. Eug
    +5
    14 December 2021 19: 58
    I understand - operation is cheaper than F-18, Rafale and EF-2000, but cheaper than JAS-39 ?! Doesn't fit in my head ..
    1. -7
      14 December 2021 21: 20
      So I beg you! Finnish guys are big fans of vodka. And if it is used correctly ...........
  11. +9
    14 December 2021 20: 36
    Cool tender, all information on prices is straightforward. And the block is indicated.
    Finland will spend 64 billion euros on 35 F-4A Block 4,703 fighters - less than 73,5 million apiece. In dollars 83 million per unit. In principle, the transition from block 3 to 4 does not give a serious rise in price.
    Calculations have shown that the operation of the entire fleet of 64 aircraft will cost less than 254 million euros per year - approx. 4 million euros per board. That is, $ 4,5 million.
    1. +12
      14 December 2021 22: 30
      Cool tender, all information on prices is straightforward.

      Obviously confirms the high quality of the F35! Lightnig clearly outperforms the competition in complex metrics!
  12. +6
    14 December 2021 20: 41
    The hike is a normal tarantass, since the Finns take it, and they are tight-fisted guys.
    Although they are not in NATO, we understand that in the case of a big shooter, they will not be left on the sidelines.
  13. +8
    14 December 2021 21: 07
    60 F35 for neutral Finns and 52 F35 for Norway, a NATO member country, probably the Americans and the Finns have discussed the exchange of intelligence received from the Finnish F35, and he can, according to the wiki, detect the launch of a ballistic missile 1500 km away, in Europe this plane are also exploited by the Air Forces of Great Britain, the Netherlands, Italy, the Poles still seemed to want to buy, in short, a serious enemy
    1. -18
      14 December 2021 23: 52
      All his danger lies in attacking from under the tishka. A plus for us is that the variety of aircraft is decreasing. Accordingly, if you find a way to counteract it, then the entire system will be vulnerable. And yet, the f-35 has a very low speed, the MiG-31 is twice as fast, which means that it cannot escape retribution. And besides, as the military assures, our air defense systems see their invisibility. In general, any weapon can cause problems if it is skillfully used.
      1. +10
        15 December 2021 00: 15
        And besides, as the military assures, our air defense systems see their invisibility.

        - Oh, these "your military"! laughing The chief strategist is Senior Lieutenant Shoigu.
        Any radar station sees any stealth - the only question is: at what distance ?! am If, at a range less than the F-22 / F-35, they can use their small-diameter gliding bombs - then this does not matter in the least. And from a height of 11 km, GBU-0.9 bombs dropped on 39M are planned at a distance of 110 kilometers. And no one ever sees them.


        And yet, the f-35 has a very low speed, the MiG-31 is twice as fast, which means that it cannot escape retribution.

        - If the poor MiG-31 decides to "hunt" the F-35, then the F-35 will crash it in 10 cases out of 10, in 20 cases out of 20, in 50 cases out of 50 , - because the frontal RCS of the MiG-31 is 25 m², and the frontal RCS of the F-35 is 0.0001 m². The MiG-31 pilot will never know who killed him ...
        1. +1
          15 December 2021 19: 51
          will never know who killed him

          People forget that the irradiated plane sees the direction to the plane that irradiates it almost before it is discovered. And no lpi will really save you from this.

          And if a head-to-head meeting does not take off, then by a moment you will have to sweep about 40 kilometers. Otherwise, in pursuit or from the side, but at a target of 20 km with three swings, the rackets fly far not at the nominal range.

          And it's better to leave the mythical 0.00000000m for magazines altogether.
          1. -1
            20 December 2021 06: 19
            Quote: Versager
            People forget that the irradiated plane sees the direction to the plane that irradiates it almost before it is discovered. And no lpi will really save you from this.

            Well, so they both radiate. The MIG also needs to see what lies ahead. It's another matter who will see whom further and earlier ...
            1. +1
              21 December 2021 20: 44
              "who will see whom further and earlier"
              Well, I saw the Awax moment 50-100 km earlier. So what is next? A minute later, a moment at the launch distance. And the escort of the Awax has another 200 kilometers to scratch.
              And for a moment, then you don't need to keep the goal to the end - in a minute the subsonic big man will not go very far - there the arlgsn and ins can be quite enough for the rocket.
              The only but - patrols from something inconspicuous, between the drlo plane and the interceptor.
  14. +11
    14 December 2021 22: 03
    Just buying F35, they immediately take 2 to 1m. Fighter and bomber, with all their electronics, etc.
    They don't write about it, purely out of politeness.

    But a small single-engine Istr.bomb. The F drags almost as much as the large 2-engine SU.
    1. -8
      14 December 2021 23: 40
      Yes, it will. If the fuel is underfilled.
      1. +3
        15 December 2021 09: 27
        This is a common thing for everyone. And the SU with underfilling drags maybe more, and the rest
  15. +5
    15 December 2021 00: 08
    - And how did this leadership of the Finnish Air Force not consult with the current couch X-perd populizers before ?! laughing lol I didn’t look at the wonderful super-duper-vidosik of an advanced zombie who, in the tail and in the mane, irritated all the notorious stealth, which does not even exist at all! wink
    Enjoy it!

  16. -14
    15 December 2021 00: 15
    But I.O. US Secretary of Defense in 2019, Patrick Shanahan, at his next speech in Congress, could not stand it and said that the F-35 aircraft program had completely failed and this was not an airplane ... but a piece of shit. There was a scandal. Good luck to the Finns to lie under the United States in purchasing this creation.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      20 December 2021 06: 22
      Quote: Skipper
      But I.O. US Secretary of Defense in 2019, Patrick Shanahan, at his next speech in Congress, could not stand it and said that the F-35 aircraft program had completely failed and this is not an airplane ... but a piece of shit.

      Yes, that's right ... Everyone who buys this fighter has become "victims of deception" ... Everyone is making a fool of them and making a fool ... ... They would ask us.
  17. +3
    15 December 2021 08: 10
    More and more orders. Indeed, the F-16 receiver.
  18. +3
    15 December 2021 09: 21
    Quote: KCA
    In the opinion of these analysts, is one radar worth it for the S-400? NuNu

    - Three. But they have different functions. Tu shows the one that is engaged in the detection of targets.
  19. -4
    15 December 2021 17: 47
    I want to protect Finland to some extent. Did the Finns have any other choice of aircraft? In addition to the fact that the F-35 is really an advanced aircraft of the latest generation, it is also highly publicized. And the government tells its people - we bought the best that is on the market and we also give a disguised bribe to the United States.
    Another question is whether this aircraft in these quantities will save from a hypothetical attack from Russia?
    I think no. If they have no money to go to, then let them buy. Let our air defense and aviation communicate and touch the F-35 from all sides, since they are behind the fence, as they say. But in the event of an attack by NATO, and its support by Finland, it can also lose a piece of territory. I'm talking about Russia's withdrawal to the Gulf of Bothnia, and the return of the Aland Islands. Gradually, we are moving along the path of resolving the issue of Russia's security like our ancestors. Let's remember the wars with Sweden, Germany, Poland, France.
    Here we are rubbing ourselves with the SU-57, SU-75, but we could sell them to Finland as they sold the MiG-21. soldier
    1. 0
      16 December 2021 02: 11
      - Of course, they had a choice, and as a non-aligned country - the choice is the largest possible in the world! smile
      The Finns could buy anything they wanted: Su-30SM, Su-35S, Rafal, Eurofighter, Gripen, F-16 Block 70/72, F-15EX, J-16. But they chose the F-35, because according to the criterion efficiency / cost he has no equal, he is the best.
    2. 0
      20 December 2021 06: 25
      Quote: V.
      Here we are rubbing ourselves with the SU-57, SU-75, but we could sell them to Finland as they sold the MiG-21.

      Where is this Su-57? Which will not be "finalized" in any way? And even in their arsenal ... two pieces ... Where are the planes, Shura?
  20. 0
    16 December 2021 13: 56
    Finland is closely connected with Russia! How can they sell this fighter, because its secrets will immediately end up in the hands of the Russian special services! Where is the logic? The United States refuses to sell this fighter to its closest allies such as the United Arab Emirates, but sells it to countries that work closely with Russia! NATO has repeatedly stated that Russia is the enemy! Maybe the US should immediately sell the F-35 to China?
  21. 0
    16 December 2021 14: 00
    The Finns will immediately pass on the secrets of this fighter to Russia! Key technologies will leak! Where are the US and NATO looking? You can't sell these fighters to Finland!
  22. -1
    16 December 2021 19: 36
    Quote: Outsider
    And besides, as the military assures, our air defense systems see their invisibility.

    - Oh, these "your military"! laughing The chief strategist is Senior Lieutenant Shoigu.
    Any radar station sees any stealth - the only question is: at what distance ?! am If, at a range less than the F-22 / F-35, they can use their small-diameter gliding bombs - then this does not matter in the least. And from a height of 11 km, GBU-0.9 bombs dropped on 39M are planned at a distance of 110 kilometers. And no one ever sees them.


    And yet, the f-35 has a very low speed, the MiG-31 is twice as fast, which means that it cannot escape retribution.

    - If the poor MiG-31 decides to "hunt" the F-35, then the F-35 will crash it in 10 cases out of 10, in 20 cases out of 20, in 50 cases out of 50 , - because the frontal RCS of the MiG-31 is 25 m², and the frontal RCS of the F-35 is 0.0001 m². The MiG-31 pilot will never know who killed him ...



    Again, couch hamsters with unrealistic numbers climbed. EPR Fu-35 = 0,2-0,3 sq. m. Fu-22 is a bit smaller. EPR MIG-31 is large, BUT there are methods to drastically reduce it. One of these is used in the SU-57. And since the modernization of the MiG-31 has been announced, the EPR will also be reduced. There are many stations that see Fu-35 and we have them, both active and passive. And also there are jamming complexes and other various equipment. In general, the best air defense is our tactical nuclear warheads at enemy airfields!
    1. +1
      17 December 2021 01: 40
      In general, you can immediately see a monkey with a nuclear club.
      "And we will bang with nuclear warheads at your airfield !!!"
      Well, in response, they will fire nuclear warheads at you. What's next ? Hello new world - a nuclear dump?
      1. 0
        26 February 2022 17: 24
        Farewell to the old world and hello to those who will come after us. Mutants
  23. 0
    17 December 2021 12: 58
    Some kind of rainbow material, Americans do not do charity work, they earn money ......................... and then everything is free for Finland
    1. 0
      20 December 2021 06: 34
      Quote: APASUS
      Some kind of rainbow material, Americans do not do charity work, they earn money ......................... and then everything is free for Finland

      Nothing for nothing. The Americans have been working on this F-35 for a decade. At first, this plane was really expensive and disastrous. There was too much new, they did not pull with the quality and manufacturability. There was even a question about closing the program. But there, the developers were able to bring it to mind over these decades. We set up production, cooperation, the price went down. That is why it turned out to be the best ... The Su-57 was probably also developed on the basis of normal ideas, but "bring it to mind" ... This is still the same task ... But simply "finding fault" will not help the business. It has already been recognized as good. Not perfect, but not bad. Therefore, the Finns have been “taxing” with the competition for a long time ... So far, they have determined that he is still better than others. Well, not surprising. While 500-600 units were produced, many questions and problems on this fighter were "tightened up" ...
  24. 0
    17 December 2021 20: 41
    Quote: DeFalco
    In general, you can immediately see a monkey with a nuclear club.
    "And we will bang with nuclear warheads at your airfield !!!"
    Well, in response, they will fire nuclear warheads at you. What's next ? Hello new world - a nuclear dump?


    I'm not a monkey, but a rocket scientist. And I'm used to solving problems the way they taught. What do you think that the planes of dates and Norwegians will fly without atomic bombs in the event of a conflict? They just modernized them recently ..
    1. 0
      20 December 2021 06: 40
      Quote: Dzafdet
      I'm not a monkey, but a rocket scientist. And I'm used to solving problems the way they taught. What do you think that the planes of dates and Norwegians will fly without atomic bombs in the event of a conflict? They just modernized them recently ..

      And only we have the right to "hammer" with atomic bombs? They have nothing? As that, we remind them that we are fucking with atomic weapons, but as for them, "they can still use atomic bombs against us" ...
  25. 0
    20 December 2021 16: 41
    Quote: onstar9
    Quote: Dzafdet
    I'm not a monkey, but a rocket scientist. And I'm used to solving problems the way they taught. What do you think that the planes of dates and Norwegians will fly without atomic bombs in the event of a conflict? They just modernized them recently ..

    And only we have the right to "hammer" with atomic bombs? They have nothing? As that, we remind them that we are fucking with atomic weapons, but as for them, "they can still use atomic bombs against us" ...

    They do, but we will rename them anyway. We have a lot of tactical charges, as well as their delivery vehicles.
    1. +1
      4 January 2022 11: 01
      “The problem is getting the delivery vehicles to their targets. This is a serious problem ...
  26. 0
    4 January 2022 00: 05
    Quote: Dzafdet
    Again, couch hamsters with unrealistic numbers climbed.

    - Look in the mirror ?! There he is, your hamster! wink lol
    EPR Fu-35 = 0,2-0,3 sq. m. Fu-22 is a bit smaller.

    - Did the guys on the Global Adventure tell you that? They all lie ...
    EPR MIG-31 is large, BUT there are methods to drastically reduce it. One of these is used in the SU-57.

    - And what is this so interesting method ??
    And since the modernization of the MiG-31 has been announced, the EPR will also be reduced.

    - Never. Because it is unnecessary for him - this is not a front-line fighter, but an interceptor, whose purpose is to work in the depths of his country, hunting for enemy missile carriers. And they are not dangerous for the MiG-31.
    There are many stations that see Fu-35 and we have them

    - Any radar station sees the F-35. The only question is: at what distance ?! I was bothered to put pictures:






    ... both active and passive.

    - As for the passive ones, you "got excited"! lol The boys deceived you again ...
    And also there are jamming complexes and other various equipment.

    - Canesna-canesna!
    In general, the best air defense is our tactical nuclear warheads at enemy airfields!

    - Dream ...
  27. 0
    4 January 2022 00: 14
    Quote: Dzafdet
    Quote: DeFalco
    In general, you can immediately see a monkey with a nuclear club.
    "And we will bang with nuclear warheads at your airfield !!!"
    Well, in response, they will fire nuclear warheads at you. What's next ? Hello new world - a nuclear dump?

    I'm not a monkey, but a rocket scientist.

    - Javdet, missilemen are very different. (As well as pilots, as well as sailors, as well as tankers). There are literate and educated ones - and there are not very well. There are sensible ones - there are not very good ones. There are smart ones - there are not very ...
    And I'm used to solving problems the way they taught.

    - And this is who learned how! laughing lol It happens that in one classroom there are two excellent students, four good students and ten "so-so" ... lol They teach everyone the same, but not everyone learns the same ...
    What do you think that the planes of dates and Norwegians will fly without atomic bombs in the event of a conflict?

    - Of course - for a start. The political officer told you that "if there is a war, it will definitely be nuclear." laughing И "the whole world is in dust"? laughing
    They just modernized them recently ...

    - And what of it?! Now they don't even take off without a nuclear bomb ?? lol
  28. 0
    7 January 2022 09: 50
    Quote: Outsider
    Quote: Dzafdet
    Again, couch hamsters with unrealistic numbers climbed.

    - Look in the mirror ?! There he is, your hamster! wink lol
    EPR Fu-35 = 0,2-0,3 sq. m. Fu-22 is a bit smaller.

    - Did the guys on the Global Adventure tell you that? They all lie ...
    EPR MIG-31 is large, BUT there are methods to drastically reduce it. One of these is used in the SU-57.

    - And what is this so interesting method ??
    And since the modernization of the MiG-31 has been announced, the EPR will also be reduced.

    - Never. Because it is unnecessary for him - this is not a front-line fighter, but an interceptor, whose purpose is to work in the depths of his country, hunting for enemy missile carriers. And they are not dangerous for the MiG-31.
    There are many stations that see Fu-35 and we have them

    - Any radar station sees the F-35. The only question is: at what distance ?! I was bothered to put pictures:






    ... both active and passive.

    - As for the passive ones, you "got excited"! lol The boys deceived you again ...
    And also there are jamming complexes and other various equipment.

    - Canesna-canesna!
    In general, the best air defense is our tactical nuclear warheads at enemy airfields!

    - Dream ...



    Well . if Poghosyan is a kid, then of course ... tongue

    I don’t need to bring funny pictures. The plane alone does not fight in the sky. If you don't understand this. then what to talk to you about?

    As for the rest of the nonsense: the Americans very skillfully advertise their equipment, BUT it successfully fights only against the enemy, who has nothing else besides small arms ..

    Dream? For three years I conditionally delivered tactical nuclear strikes on the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. So I know what I'm writing about ...
    1. 0
      9 January 2022 09: 54
      Well . if Poghosyan is a kid, then of course .... tongue

      - Poghosyan is a "businessman from business", it was he who "buried" about one billion dollars in the ground, creating an absolutely useless Su-47 (rotting in the parking lot in one copy for many years), chopping off money from the MiG company, ruining it and depriving the country of the MiG-1.41 (now the glider from this MiG flies in China in the form of a J-20!). Then he spent an unclear how many billions (dollars), creating a completely sloppy and useless Su-57, with shameful characteristics (for those who understand):


      Only a dilettante layman (or an ignorant dilettante) can compare this "crap" with a 22-year-old F-25.
      I don’t need to bring funny pictures.

      - They are not funny. They are dramatic and even tragic (for those who understand this).
      The plane alone does not fight in the sky. If you don't understand this. then what to talk to you about?

      - This stupid mantra "has already eaten the whole bald patch": before letting in a pair against a pair, a flight against a flight, a squadron against a squadron with RTR and electronic warfare aircraft, AWACS and tankers - first of all they look at personal flight characteristics of the fighter... And if the F-22 in a duel situation, one-on-one, without any external support, beats the Su-57 with a zero score when the number of battles is 10, 20, 50, it is a "no brainer", and any "support" to him it won’t help to win, BECAUSE THE F-22 AND ALL SUPPORT AIRCRAFT HAVE MUCH BETTER FEATURES!! These are all "branches of the same tree"! There are better AWACS aircraft, there are better RTR aircraft, there are better electronic warfare aircraft, there are tankers - better! Not to understand this elementary stuff and tryndet that "at least" one-on-one "he sucks, but with a Caudal he will take everyone away" - and from whom to form this Caudle ?? From the same planes 40 years ago, with hopelessly lagging technology ?!
      As for the rest of the nonsense: the Americans very skillfully advertise their equipment, BUT it successfully fights only against the enemy, who has nothing else besides small arms ..

      - This is nonsense, illiterate and stupid: CONSTANTLY international exercises of the highest degree of complexity are held, where all equipment is compared and tested, where Rafali are fighting the F-22, where Eurofighters are fighting the F-35, together and separately, with a wide variety of types of support, on a number of exercises involve HUNDREDS of combat aircraft "of all kinds and stripes" and tens of thousands of personnel at the same time ...
      Dream? For three years I conditionally delivered tactical nuclear strikes on the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. So I know what I'm writing about ...

      - Has anyone already died of laughter in Germany? Or at NATO headquarters in Brussels?
      Yes, you don't know a damn thing, you can "win" while sitting at the table, even the united fleet of aliens from Alpha Centauri and Tau Ceti - only all this is bullshit and children's toys, have nothing to do with reality... What have you been doing all your life, fooling the high party bosses (although the name of the party has changed).
  29. 0
    7 January 2022 09: 52
    Quote: Outsider
    Quote: Dzafdet
    Quote: DeFalco
    In general, you can immediately see a monkey with a nuclear club.
    "And we will bang with nuclear warheads at your airfield !!!"
    Well, in response, they will fire nuclear warheads at you. What's next ? Hello new world - a nuclear dump?

    I'm not a monkey, but a rocket scientist.

    - Javdet, missilemen are very different. (As well as pilots, as well as sailors, as well as tankers). There are literate and educated ones - and there are not very well. There are sensible ones - there are not very good ones. There are smart ones - there are not very ...
    And I'm used to solving problems the way they taught.

    - And this is who learned how! laughing lol It happens that in one classroom there are two excellent students, four good students and ten "so-so" ... lol They teach everyone the same, but not everyone learns the same ...
    What do you think that the planes of dates and Norwegians will fly without atomic bombs in the event of a conflict?

    - Of course - for a start. The political officer told you that "if there is a war, it will definitely be nuclear." laughing И "the whole world is in dust"? laughing
    They just modernized them recently ...

    - And what of it?! Now they don't even take off without a nuclear bomb ?? lol



    The apotheosis of the USE victim in all its glory. As soon as a conflict with NATO begins, it will immediately enter the phase with the use of nuclear weapons. All the experts understand this: both excellent students and trials ...
    1. -1
      9 January 2022 10: 07
      The apotheosis of the USE victim in all its glory. As soon as a conflict with NATO begins, it will immediately enter the phase with the use of nuclear weapons. All the experts understand this: both excellent students and trials ...

      - No, sir, excellent students (me, for example), unlike C students (you, for example) understand perfectly well that with a full-scale nuclear strike between Russia and the United States, nightmarish things happen for both sides: the United States falls into a complete insignificance and becomes a vassal of China until the end of the century, and China will simply swallow the remnants of Russia, occupying at least those territories that have been spelled out in its school atlases for many years - from the Pacific Ocean to the Urals... But after a thermonuclear war, everything else will rake in. The Kremlin understands this very well, Washington understands it very well, - therefore, the chatter of stupid C-grade students "and here we are in Washington now" is like childish babble, moreover, of children with mental retardation. fool lol
  30. 0
    13 January 2022 18: 46
    Quote: Outsider
    The apotheosis of the USE victim in all its glory. As soon as a conflict with NATO begins, it will immediately enter the phase with the use of nuclear weapons. All the experts understand this: both excellent students and trials ...

    - No, sir, excellent students (me, for example), unlike C students (you, for example) understand perfectly well that with a full-scale nuclear strike between Russia and the United States, nightmarish things happen for both sides: the United States falls into a complete insignificance and becomes a vassal of China until the end of the century, and China will simply swallow the remnants of Russia, occupying at least those territories that have been spelled out in its school atlases for many years - from the Pacific Ocean to the Urals... But after a thermonuclear war, everything else will rake in. The Kremlin understands this very well, Washington understands it very well, - therefore, the chatter of stupid C-grade students "and here we are in Washington now" is like childish babble, moreover, of children with mental retardation. fool lol



    Learn history It was China that was the territory of Great Tartary, and not vice versa. And do not consider the specialists from the General Staff to be fools. If anything will be left on China with a makeweight.
  31. 0
    17 January 2022 09: 31
    Quote: Outsider
    Well . if Poghosyan is a kid, then of course .... tongue

    - Poghosyan is a "businessman from business", it was he who "buried" about one billion dollars in the ground, creating an absolutely useless Su-47 (rotting in the parking lot in one copy for many years), chopping off money from the MiG company, ruining it and depriving the country of the MiG-1.41 (now the glider from this MiG flies in China in the form of a J-20!). Then he spent an unclear how many billions (dollars), creating a completely sloppy and useless Su-57, with shameful characteristics (for those who understand):


    Only a dilettante layman (or an ignorant dilettante) can compare this "crap" with a 22-year-old F-25.
    I don’t need to bring funny pictures.

    - They are not funny. They are dramatic and even tragic (for those who understand this).
    The plane alone does not fight in the sky. If you don't understand this. then what to talk to you about?

    - This stupid mantra "has already eaten the whole bald patch": before letting in a pair against a pair, a flight against a flight, a squadron against a squadron with RTR and electronic warfare aircraft, AWACS and tankers - first of all they look at personal flight characteristics of the fighter... And if the F-22 in a duel situation, one-on-one, without any external support, beats the Su-57 with a zero score when the number of battles is 10, 20, 50, it is a "no brainer", and any "support" to him it won’t help to win, BECAUSE THE F-22 AND ALL SUPPORT AIRCRAFT HAVE MUCH BETTER FEATURES!! These are all "branches of the same tree"! There are better AWACS aircraft, there are better RTR aircraft, there are better electronic warfare aircraft, there are tankers - better! Not to understand this elementary stuff and tryndet that "at least" one-on-one "he sucks, but with a Caudal he will take everyone away" - and from whom to form this Caudle ?? From the same planes 40 years ago, with hopelessly lagging technology ?!
    As for the rest of the nonsense: the Americans very skillfully advertise their equipment, BUT it successfully fights only against the enemy, who has nothing else besides small arms ..

    - This is nonsense, illiterate and stupid: CONSTANTLY international exercises of the highest degree of complexity are held, where all equipment is compared and tested, where Rafali are fighting the F-22, where Eurofighters are fighting the F-35, together and separately, with a wide variety of types of support, on a number of exercises involve HUNDREDS of combat aircraft "of all kinds and stripes" and tens of thousands of personnel at the same time ...
    Dream? For three years I conditionally delivered tactical nuclear strikes on the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. So I know what I'm writing about ...

    - Has anyone already died of laughter in Germany? Or at NATO headquarters in Brussels?
    Yes, you don't know a damn thing, you can "win" while sitting at the table, even the united fleet of aliens from Alpha Centauri and Tau Ceti - only all this is bullshit and children's toys, have nothing to do with reality... What have you been doing all your life, fooling the high party bosses (although the name of the party has changed).


    MIG and SU - aircraft of different weights and different classes. And they have different missions.
    Amateurs like you have been talking about the "sucky" SU-57 for many years. Practice refutes this.
    Most recently, an F-35 crashed after the pilot lost consciousness in the Sea of ​​Japan. This nicely characterizes this aircraft.
    Only the F-117 has 10 cm thick coating plates, which really allows you to realize those pictures. which you brought. The rest - no.
    Numerous exercises have shown that Rafali is easily detected and targeted by the F-35 in any situation. The Rafal OLS system takes the F-35 for escort for 95 km (!!!).
    About technology is also stuffing. They match perfectly. Our MIG-21s calmly shoot down F-16s ...
  32. 0
    3 February 2022 16: 34
    When I join a discussion, my post is always marked with a "minus". I'm a foreigner, that's how it should be. But now the guys will be hard. Here, however, I would like to mention your struggles in 1919-1920 and especially the Winter War of 1939-40. Sometimes a little modesty is required. am
  33. 0
    26 February 2022 17: 16
    Finland is an enemy and behaves like an enemy and will continue to be an enemy, no doubt
  34. 0
    3 March 2022 13: 25
    Well, if the budget allows, why not?
    Eurofighter gripen irafal is not necessary?
    It is sad.
    But not for the US military-industrial complex.
    It looks like all European fighters will go first to Southeast Asia and then to Africa.
    Well it's just business baby!
  35. +1
    April 9 2022 06: 57
    - Dzafdet (Sergey), have you already revised some of your views on military aviation?