Three squadrons - three AUG

131

We have already talked more than once about what China is doing in terms of creating fleet day of tomorrow and how it turns out for a country led by the Chinese Communist Party. It turns out just excellent, such a pace of ship construction can be the envy of all countries of the world.

And if you consider that for this China does not have to go on a hungry ration, then in general things are going just fine. For China and its navy, of course. For many in the world, it is true, what China is doing causes a real gnashing of teeth, but today no country in the world is able to build ships at such a pace.



At present, the powerful construction of the fleet from new ships and the parallel modernization of old ones can be clearly traced. And the main thing in naval construction is the formation of squadrons / AUG. The quantity, as it becomes clear, is three units.

It took the Chinese naval command 15 years to go through a fairly decent path: to form the first AUG, albeit half of a training nature, to build its own first aircraft carrier on its own, and to lay down the third. Plus, active work is underway to develop a fifth-generation carrier-based fighter and, in addition to it, a deck-based strike unmanned aerial vehicle.

Probably the only fleet that could match in terms of pace and quality is the Japanese. The United States today is preoccupied with maintaining its huge fleet in a combat-ready state, and new ships there are not as frequent as those of the Chinese and Japanese.


However, even the USA and Japan, which are on the same scale, are not yet able to outweigh the dynamics of China's "dispersal". Yes, the US has an inherently intimidating fleet, but ... but there are so many nuances that it is always considered separately.

But the United States has an excellent aircraft carrier group. American aircraft carriers are indeed a force, albeit a little limited.


Why can't China follow the path of the Americans and create such a group of ships?

And China is coming. The fact that aircraft carrier forces are being created in the country can be seen with the naked eye. Moreover, they are created with an eye on the American (as the best in the world) system.

Naturally, the presence of aircraft-carrying strike groups will allow China a lot: to defend its interests, territorial claims, which China has more than enough, will expand China's ability to project power to other regions of the world.

In general, everything is the same as that of the United States, but with an eye on the growing fleet of new ships behind its back. Is it quite? Indeed, yes.

And China has where to apply its new fleet. It is obvious that the region of the South China Sea, where the exercises of the Chinese Navy are so actively conducted today, can easily become an area where China will begin to defend its interests.

So the teachings are just the beginning. In the future, there is a permanent presence of Chinese warships in the South China Sea, and in case of a very ugly scenario, the interests of several countries will collide there.

And then it turns out who will have the advantage in the air - that will have the advantage on the water.


So, in principle, the South China Sea is a springboard for educational work with a perspective. And when my studies are over, I won't be very surprised if China begins to defend its interests around the world. For example, in Africa, where recently the presence of China has been noticeable with the naked eye.

And everything goes according to plan ... And the plan is being traced. At least three stages can be seen, after the completion of which the PRC will have a fleet capable of fully solving any tasks in any area of ​​the World Ocean, without looking back at possible opposition.

The first stage has already been implemented. As part of this stage, a training AUG was created as part of the Liaoning aircraft carrier, three destroyers and three escort frigates, a helicopter carrier and two nuclear submarines.


A decent grouping for any fleet other than the American one. And this AUG has already performed training tasks, preparing both the personnel of the ships, and the pilots of aircraft and helicopters, to work as part of a single strike group.

The second stage will be the construction and commissioning of the second full-fledged aircraft carrier "Shandong" and the preparation of a group of surface and submarine ships for it. The work with Shandong is planned to be completed by 2025, and then the Chinese fleet will have TWO strike groups of ships, which will include an aircraft carrier, a helicopter carrier, 6-8 destroyers and frigates, 2 submarines and 2-4 support vessels.

Considering that Japan's main regional competitor will be able to deploy approximately the same groupings, but the air wing of the Japanese aircraft carrier will be half that of the Chinese, certain conclusions can be drawn now. The aircraft carrier, converted from the Japanese Akagi-class destroyer-helicopter carrier, is no match for the Shandong, which, although lightweight. But a full-fledged aircraft carrier. And its 40-wing wing is definitely stronger than the 12 F-35B on the Japanese ship.

The second stage will actually be completed by about 2025. And immediately start the third stage.

The third stage in China is planned to be carried out until 2030-2035. The whole snag in the developed project of an aircraft carrier with a nuclear power plant. Plans for the construction of the first such ship are constantly being adjusted, but certain work is being carried out.

An aircraft carrier with a nuclear power plant will be more independent than its predecessors, in addition, aircraft are planned to be launched using electromagnetic catapults, which will actually allow more aircraft to be taken on board.

In general, the Chinese are very good at keeping silent about their plans, but a certain amount of information that was gleaned from the Chinese media today allows us to conclude that the plans of the Chinese command are worth 70 aircraft on board the new aircraft carrier.

These will be fighters, helicopters, and unmanned aerial vehicles. In addition, in China, work is in full swing on the creation of new aircraft AWACS and electronic warfare, focused on deck-based.

AWACS and EW aircraft on the deck of an aircraft carrier are such a necessary component of modern warfare that we simply will not talk about their usefulness. I will only note that when new machines (exactly when, and not if) land on the decks of Chinese aircraft carriers, a new era will begin in stories the Chinese fleet.

China already has in service quite decent AWACS and RTR aircraft based on the AN-12. When it becomes possible to place the equipment from the same KJ-200 kit into the volume of an aircraft capable of taking off and landing on the Shandun deck, China will get a very tangible advantage over all the participants in the Asia-Pacific region, except the United States. But even so - everything will be very impressive.


So the first flight of the Xian KJ-600 prototype, which took off not so long ago, is just the beginning.

It is planned that the KJ-600 will be able to operate from the decks of the new aircraft carriers. When this happens, it will add additional detection range to the AUG and provide target designation to the aircraft of the aircraft carrier's wing. And from coastal airfields, ship groups can serve all the same KJ-500, which, in terms of their dimensions, will not be able to fit on the decks of aircraft carriers.

So, if you dream a little, then: by 2030, in just 9 years, China may have three aircraft carriers. And even four, if everything goes as the Chinese command would like.

Using these ships, three AUGs will be formed, which will enhance the capabilities of the Chinese fleet and put the fleet into new orbits. The fleet will be able to protect the interests of China in any area of ​​the World Ocean.

If by that time the Chinese can actually build two new aircraft carriers, then the first, Liaoning, will remain a training class for naval pilots. aviation... By the way, the former "Varyag" copes with this role quite well, for the first regiment of naval pilots has already been trained with the help of this ship.

In general, it should be said that the purchase and completion of the Liaoning greatly helped the Chinese fleet in terms of personnel training and pilot training, in fact, recouped the construction costs.


Moreover, it was on the Liaoning that the issues of naval interaction and many other issues were worked out.

The Chinese command took a very big risk buying the unfinished Varyag. The Chinese had too many problems, because no one canceled the embargo on military technology. Therefore, the Chinese laid the foundation for the development of the aircraft carrier fleet on their own, but they succeeded.

Many experts in the world do not express doubts that China will be able to build the next generation aircraft carriers. Work is going on, albeit not at the pace that the Chinese command would like, but it is going on.

In the event that the plans come true, China will have at its disposal three strike groups of ships with aircraft carriers. Of course, this is not the American fleet with its resources, but in this situation, the PLA Navy comes out on top in the Asia-Pacific region and in the coastal zone of Asia will be able to resist even the American fleet, subject to support from the coast.

Three squadrons - three AUG

In principle, this is not even a fantasy, but a fairly well-made plan.
131 comment
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  1. +3
    7 November 2021 05: 29
    Survived ... smile The novel dreams of three four AUG China.
    Alas, our country is not represented in the club of aircraft carrier owners ... there are no ambitions, no money, no plans for their construction.
    1. +28
      7 November 2021 05: 36
      So here the community decided once and for all - why do we need aircraft carriers, we are a land power and we are not going to attack anyone. And aside from the words of Peter Alekseevich: “... the land army has, it has one hand. And which the fleet has, has both hands) for the sake of this Maritime Naval Regulations they imposed, so that everyone would know their position, and nobody would be discouraged by ignorance. "
      1. +20
        7 November 2021 05: 43
        Well, this is a battle of concepts) for and against. Who is right, time will tell. Both sides have reasonable arguments, as for me now the aircraft carriers are less important than the construction of shipyards on which they could actually be built)
        1. +4
          8 November 2021 13: 01
          Quote: carstorm 11
          as for me now the aircraft carriers are less important than the construction of shipyards on which they could actually be built)

          as for me, the production of high-quality and not insanely expensive rolled metal, from which it will be possible to build both!
          1. +2
            8 November 2021 14: 56
            He's all dear now. This is reality now
      2. +21
        7 November 2021 06: 28
        Quote: Crowe
        So here the community decided once and for all - why do we need aircraft carriers, we are a land power and are not going to attack anyone ...

        The only problem is that Smolensk will no longer have a secondary plan for Barbarossa and tank groups ... But multipurpose flocks of submarines, aircraft carrier strike forces, thousands of enemy missile launchers and UAVs is a reality that is not very customary to talk about ...
        1. 0
          8 November 2021 07: 40
          The Chinese command took a very big risk buying the unfinished Varyag. The Chinese had too many problems, because no one canceled the embargo on military technology. Therefore, the Chinese laid the foundation for the development of the aircraft carrier fleet on their own, but they succeeded.

          Oh yes, here on VO they wrote:
          1. "The Chinese will never make a power plant on the Varyag." Made.
          2. "The Chinese will never be able to land a system." Made.
          3. "The Chinese will never make a carrier-based aircraft." Made.
          And about the renaming of "Varyag" into "Liaoning" they did not say anything at all and wiped themselves out. Let me remind you that Liaoning is a province in Manchuria, which was under the rule of the Russian Empire, it was there that Port Arthur and Dalny were located, it was there that the CER was built.
          This is a direct hint, for those who did not understand.
      3. +7
        7 November 2021 16: 31
        Well, vooot, again "obshestvennost decided" ... It is proposed to wait a bit. Now, the 3rd and 4th UDCs will be built up, they will go into the 22350M2 series, and as soon as at least three for the first two aircraft carriers appear immediately in Severodvinsk and on "Zvezdochka" and they will lay down one at a time, and then one more, and by 2040 we will already be in the club. How about without an escort? How without shipbuilding facilities? And the PLA can not be sacrificed, there is nothing else besides them. And in fact there is no airplane on the deck. Or maybe they will make a super VTOL aircraft, not a Lokhovsky F35B? Then the UDC will be suitable for a full-fledged floating airfield. It's a pity you can't put "Hunters" on them. Yes, there are many nuances. And don't go around them. You can't go crazy about aircraft carriers, but we will build that, of course ...
      4. 0
        April 25 2022 23: 49
        and when the northern sea route finally melts and the battle for the shelf begins, will you also tell that we are a land power ?? I am silent about Pacific interests. no need to write that we are a land power, just write that there is no money for the fleet, but our priority is the Strategic Missile Forces, tanks and planes ... although this is all the trouble
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. -9
      7 November 2021 06: 18
      Naturally, the aircraft carrier is too easy a target in modern realities, and its loss is too economically unprofitable. Everything is very simple.
      1. +20
        7 November 2021 07: 41
        Novel! Respect again!
        In the first messages, the concern of the website users about the fate and development of the Russian fleet is encouraging. the historical excursion into the "Peter's times" is especially pleasant ...
        However, in all honesty ... Let's be honest:
        It took the Chinese naval command 15 years to go a pretty decent way.

        And the new Russian government (since the EBN) took only 30 years to "drive" all Soviet achievements at a speculative price, and turn the economy and production into a cooperative society of deaf and blind mediocrities who continue to do their business through the "vulgar designation of the buttocks." ...
        Are there really still blind people who do not see these "shoals", which can no longer be hidden by weak attempts to justify the failures of the backward Soviet economy and the hatred of the West for Russia ...
        1. -4
          7 November 2021 19: 08
          Probably the only fleet that could match the pace and quality is the Japanese.

          IMHO, the Chinese fleet, in terms of quality, is very far from the Japanese.
          1. +1
            8 November 2021 15: 38
            On the contrary, the quality of Japan is much inferior to that of China, including radar, gas turbine and missiles.
        2. -1
          9 December 2021 16: 20
          Yes, while the Soviet communists ruined their economy, opposed the West and educated people and blacks all over the world for free, the Chinese communists held back the USSR, allied with the West and hunched over to it, adopting technologies, best practices and business ethics, traded in consumer goods for the shirnarmass ...
      2. +14
        7 November 2021 10: 07
        Well, and Nakhimov and any large ship, without air support (and where will it come from?), In the conditions of the overwhelming advantage of the enemy - is it a death star? After all, many billions were thrown into Nakhimov. And as a result, he will be so alone. At the same time, China already has 4x055 in its fleet, 112 missiles each, and 20+ 052Ds - 64 missiles each. What is more stable than a single Soviet cruiser with a new filling or a squadron from destroyers + an aircraft carrier?

        By the way, the Chinese threw a couple of pictures at the last exercises, like 30 years ago and today, someone turned the wrong way.

        1. +4
          7 November 2021 13: 34
          Quote: donavi49
          a lot of billions were thrown into Nakhimov. And as a result, he will be so alone.

          Maybe Peter will be modernized later ...
          Still, 055 and 1144 are in different weight categories.
      3. +7
        8 November 2021 01: 31
        Quote: Runner2022
        Naturally, the aircraft carrier is too easy a target.

        Well, you will amuse the American AUG with this, or tell about their excessive "lightness" to the veterans of the Soviet MPA. laughing
        An aircraft carrier is always AUG, always an escort, always on duty AWACS forces in the air, performed by air defense systems on destroyers and escort cruisers, and air defense on distant lines by air wing forces.
        How many MPA regiments relied on one AUG in a raid?
        Here we are, if we decide to build this will not be avoided.
        And the creation of a naval aircraft carrier complex is included in the plans of the Ministry of Defense and has been announced by the Supreme Command.
        1. +2
          8 November 2021 03: 35
          I must say that both "Gorshkov" and "Kuznetsov" (aka "Varyag who left for China) are not such bad projects if they are brought to mind. As the Chinese did with" Varyag "by buying from Ukraine and from the Indians with" Gorshkov "by buying it from Russia, where they made candy from it - even the asbestos mats were removed from the insulation of pipes and boilers, they say, it is harmful for Indian sailors.
          Now there are already those who regret the sale of "Gorshkov". They say it was necessary to send him to the Pacific Ocean.
          Both the Chinese and the Indians are not overjoyed with these ships. And in fact, they will become the basis for the development of new aircraft carriers.
          And "Kuznetsov" was simply stupidly unlucky with the bosses in the country. There was no interest in him. That's why the ship was launched. The Su-33UB project (it could be like a mini-AWACS, refueller, training, missile-carrying and strike) was drowned at Poghosyan when it was ready for production - KnaaPO already produced samples that were later lying there.
          Yes, and the Su-33 fleet does not even reach the regiment, although at the plant there could still be a reserve for 5-6 vehicles.

          The Chinese have brought to mind both the Su-33 and Su-33UB. And both (J-15) are already in the series. Fortunately, the Su-33 of Timur Apakidzda helped that in 1992 it did not fly to the North from the Crimea due to a malfunction and so remained there, being declared the property of Ukraine.
          In 2004, the long-forgotten and abandoned fighter jet was bought by the Chinese and taken to their home across the entire territory of Russia.
          Now China and India have carrier-based aircraft and aircraft carriers. We don't have them.
          And given what the fleet has done with its aviation, most likely it will not.
          1. +5
            8 November 2021 03: 52
            The need has appeared ... and even the need for such ships - the merchant fleet is growing and will continue to grow, and therefore they started talking again, this time in an applied manner. If it works out with two UDCs in Kerch, the next will be aircraft carriers. In the same place.
            The main thing is to get on with the propulsion systems. With the turbines, everything has already worked out, the issue with the gearboxes so as not to delay ... If "Golovko" comes out on the chassis and confirms the reliability of the new power plants, it will work.
            Enough time.
            As for Vikromaditya, even when friction with India began due to the rise in the cost of work, many insisted on a buyback for the Navy, especially since it really turned out then. At the Pacific Fleet it would hardly have been worth it - they would have been ditched there. But the substitution of "Kuznetsov" for the Northern Fleet is quite possible. You look, and "Kuznetsov" could have been modernized in a timely manner, and there would now be two combat-ready AVs in service, while one could be kept in Mediterranean on a permanent basis ... We missed this opportunity ... We missed too much of everything.
            It's time to collect stones.
            1. +2
              8 November 2021 15: 14
              In fact, there are no places in Russia where aircraft carriers can be based. If, in essence, it is only the Crimea and the Krasnodar Territory. Due to their subtropical climate, infrastructure for training deck pilots, ship repair base.
              Yes, the Black Sea is small and isolated.
              Yes, there cannot be ships with a nuclear power plant.
              Yes, there can only be an aircraft carrier and not an aircraft carrier.
              According to the Montreux convention.
              But in higher latitudes, aircraft carriers are not based anywhere in the world.
              "Kuznetsov" in the North really rotted and deteriorated. As soon as winter is approaching, they tried to drive him to the Mediterranean Sea.
              He could not enter Severomorsk in size, he was based in Murmansk on the territory of the SRZ.
              And to keep such a whopper there in winter is to supply it from the shore with air, steam, hot water and electricity. And a lot of this is needed.
              Otherwise, the ship will become unusable. Its boilers and systems will have to be used. And the resource will go away as if it were continuously at sea.
              What happened to him.
              Such ships as "Kuznetsov" (where he was hastily hijacked to the North from the claims of Ukraine) in the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, the Soviet Navy did not plan to keep at all.
              Only nuclear-powered aircraft carriers (full-fledged) of the Ulyanovsk type were supposed to be in the ocean-going fleets. When everything needed was built there.
              And these only on the Black Sea - in fact, the same missile cruiser "Moskva" but with a regiment of fighters on board. As a training aircraft carrier / missile cruiser.
              Something like that. A former naval officer told me this 20 years ago.
              What we actually saw.
              1. +3
                8 November 2021 17: 24
                Quote: Osipov9391
                In fact, there are no places in Russia where aircraft carriers can be based.

                Yes, there are problems with the basing - both with the infrastructure and with the climate.
                But there is one proposal - to base the aircraft carriers built in Kerch (if they are built) in Tartus. smile , and for services to drive around Europe to the North Atlantic, to the Norwegian and Barents Seas. Drive to Mediterranean for the winter (anyway, ice).
                To carry out services in the north on a rotational basis, replacing one with another, and the other with a third, ensuring a constant presence.
                And at the Pacific Fleet, it seems, they found an ice-free bay for a possible new base for the Pacific AB, which in winter (the appearance of floating ice) could move to Cam Ranh.
                If the Vietnamese do not refuse.
                And I think they will not refuse, because they themselves do not need a base, and the presence of such forces will be their reinforcement and greater self-confidence. For us, the base in Cam Ranh will not hurt us very much to ensure the freedom of navigation of our tankers, gas carriers and dry cargo ships to the Indian Ocean.
                But again - if such ships appear, and appear quickly enough.
                1. +1
                  8 November 2021 18: 41
                  The ideas are good. I remember about 20 years ago one old sailor came to my father and they talked. I heard this conversation about "Kuznetsov".
                  That they say this ship will rot in the North and become unusable very quickly.
                  And he was right. It happened. But this is not all the trouble and problems.
                  In winter, there is a polar night in those parts, low clouds, cloudy, sometimes snowfalls.
                  The problems of preparing carrier-based aviation became acute - if the ship did not go on a voyage to the Mediterranean Sea, then the aviation was relocated to Crimea / Yeisk.
                  The subtropical climate of these regions, warm all year round, sunny weather, the availability of simulators ideally affected the preparation.
                  But when returning to the North, I had to fly in terrible, completely opposite conditions.
                  So preparation was more often than not for the sake of preparation. Or it was good for flying over the Mediterranean.
                  There is no point in talking about the Pacific Fleet at all. Such ships can and can be based in Kamchatka, but carrier-based aircraft (for any other good half of the year) will not be able to operate due to volcanic emissions and ash. It's very difficult to fly there.
                  In Primorye, an aircraft carrier is locked in the Sea of ​​Japan. And it took him more than one day to cover the SSBN in Kamchatka.
                  Although there would be no problems with the basing of carrier-based aircraft.
                  1. +2
                    8 November 2021 19: 36
                    Quote: Osipov9391
                    In winter, there is a polar night in those parts, low clouds, cloudy, sometimes snowfalls.

                    For this period, AB can generally be withdrawn in Middle-earth, for it is unlikely that in such conditions the work of AB is generally possible, or it will hardly be effective.
                    Therefore, it is best to choose Tartus (repair base - Kerch, Sevastopol) as the main base for AB in the western waters, from where it is possible to deploy them both in the Mediterranean Sea itself and in the Western Atlantic, the Norwegian and Barents Seas, and, if necessary, quickly set out on a hike in Atlantic and Indian Oceans as part of AUG and KUG.
                    Quote: Osipov9391
                    There is no point in talking about the Pacific Fleet at all.

                    Quote: Osipov9391
                    In Primorye, an aircraft carrier is locked in the Sea of ​​Japan. And it took him more than one day to cover the SSBN in Kamchatka.

                    For the future AV Pacific Fleet, it seems, they have picked up a convenient non-freezing bay on the coast of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, this is not Primorye, but a little to the north. How the sea does not freeze there - God knows, perhaps they do not give currents from the south. But all infrastructure and logistics will need to be created from scratch. However, this can be very useful in the sense of the appearance of a new "rear" base of the Pacific Fleet, which will be farther from Japan, better protected and from there it will be convenient to deploy Pacific Fleet forces both in the Kamchatka region and in the Sea of ​​Japan, as well as on duty forces to the torrential zones of the Kuril ridge.
                    It will cost money and a lot of effort, but ... in the existing conditions, Vladivostok can hardly be called a convenient place for basing and deploying the forces of the fleet. Yes, and there are rumors in recent years that Vladivostok will become a commercial port, and the Pacific Fleet base will be built in a new location. Maybe it's better.
                    In any case, the new base of the Black Sea Fleet in Novorossiysk definitely did not become superfluous.
                    But we have gained experience in building a naval base for a modern fleet.
                    Novorossiysk and Tartus are examples of this.
                    In Vladivostok, light and advanced formations of the Pacific Fleet may remain, and the main forces, AV, UDC and first rankings, are better based in a new, more convenient and safe naval base.
                  2. 0
                    26 December 2021 19: 43
                    Under capitalism, "Kuznetsov" on the Northern Fleet, before entering the shipyard in Rostu (Murmansk), was driven into Ura-Guba (Vidyaevo village). It's surprising that he was not killed there then. In Soviet times, the "Kiev" was driven to Severomorsk and there he hung out all the time on the roadstead on barrels. The same thing happened with the "Minsk" at the Pacific Fleet. They did not even bother to make berths for these TAKRs. Russia, of course, is a sea power, but not an ocean power. The Black, Baltic and Sea of ​​Japan are traps for the ocean-going fleet. The North and Kamchatka are also not suitable for the basing of aircraft carriers, and keeping them abroad (such as in Tartus in Syria) will be very costly. So does Russia need aircraft carriers then?
                    1. 0
                      26 December 2021 23: 58
                      And in the North, the pilots from Kuznetsov practically did not fly because of the weather and the polar night? Both from the ship and from the coastal airfield.
                      Well, they told me so. At the first opportunity we tried to fly to the Crimea (Saki) or Krasnodar Territory with their subtropical climate where the weather is clear all year round.
                      "Kuznetsov" was driven to the North during the collapse of the USSR, fearing that Ukraine would declare him its own.
                      So he was supposed to serve in the Black Sea Fleet. It is not designed for ocean-going fleets. A nuclear power plant was not made for him and the missile armament was supplied so that he was a non-nuclear aircraft carrier cruiser and could be based in the Black Sea.
                      The next nuclear "Ulyanovsk" was supposed to be real. But even if they had built - neither the air group, nor the pier, nothing would have been created for it.
                2. 0
                  8 November 2021 18: 49
                  And yes, even American aircraft carriers practically never go to the regions of Norway and Kamchatka - they generally do not go to these latitudes.
                  And if they go in passing, then aviation does not work with them. Only off the coast of Norway, in clear weather in summer, they sometimes flew a year or two ago, and that was not enough.
                  This is extreme life-threatening.
                  And we must remember that there is no emergency barrier on "Kuznetsov". If the cable breaks, the pilots will have to leave the serviceable car and it will fall into the sea.
                  This has already happened 3 times on that ship. 2 last times off the coast of Syria.
                  And if out of a dozen aircraft on board 2 are lost, God forbid the pilots - this is a disaster. The air group will not be able to carry out the assigned tasks.
                  So Kuznetsov was not a full-fledged combat unit.
                  Ek sorry for the Su-33UB. Such a project, Poghosyan would have broken off his hands for it ...
                  1. 0
                    8 November 2021 21: 29
                    Quote: Osipov9391
                    And yes, even American aircraft carriers in the regions of Norway and Kamchatka

                    We need AV in those places to counter submarines and enemy strike aircraft, to cover the deployment of surface forces of the fleet and NSNF. Here the need is worse than bondage.
                    Another thing is that it will be extremely difficult and expensive to base the AB group in those latitudes - they will have to be heated in the bases for more than six months.
                    But on a rotational basis from the Mediterranean Sea is another matter. Regular runs will also cost money, but this can be combined with training programs and with other services. But on the other hand, they will be based in warm regions, not far from repair bases (in the Black Sea) and perform a whole range of tasks in Middle-earth itself, strengthening our southern flank in the western direction.
                    Quote: Osipov9391
                    And if out of a dozen aircraft on board 2 are lost, God forbid the pilots - this is a disaster. The air group will not be able to carry out the assigned tasks.

                    On Kuznetsov, in addition to a dozen Su-33s, a couple of dozen MiG-29K \ KUB are based, which are much younger and lighter, which means they will create less load on the finisher and rarely tear it ... And one such AB will not make special weather a-priory . But as a training desk for carrier-based aviation, for training pilots for future AB - quite to itself.
                    Well, the main task of the Air Defense of the Fleet in the DMZ is not removed from it.
                    Quote: Osipov9391
                    Ek sorry for the Su-33UB. Such a project, Poghosyan would have broken off his hands for it ...

                    Then the fate of the "Kuznetsov" was decided in general, they tried to let him scrapped so many times ... Before the new planes were there ...
                    But Poghosyan did a lot of harm, you can't argue with that.
                    hi
                    1. 0
                      8 November 2021 23: 57
                      In fact, when Kuznetsov was on the campaigns, there were never more than 11-15 aircraft on board. It doesn't matter which ones. But it was not. There is also a Su-25UTG there, there are a bunch of helicopters providing anti-aircraft missiles, reconnaissance and more.
                      Some of the fighters are always on the shore. In fact, there they are the only maneuverable aircraft covering Murmansk. After all, the nearest base with the MiG-31 is in Monchegorsk.
                      The prospects for this ship to come out of repair are very vague. They are postponed for 2 years unless something else happens to him.
                      This also applies to the Su-33, this is the basis of the ship's air group. The oldest is already 30 years old, the youngest is 22 years old.
                      Their combat capabilities are about the same as the Su-27S. Of course they can lay bombs.
                      But guided missile weapons are not. Such modernization has not been carried out.
                      And the manufacturer stopped repairing them for 5 years already. They are doing it at ARZ. And there is not always the right quality. And they can't even paint normally.
                3. +1
                  12 November 2021 03: 46
                  Quote: bayard
                  the Pacific Fleet seems to have found an ice-free bay for a possible new base for the Pacific AV

                  God, damn sofa experts! Do you have any idea what the Far East is? That, for example, Primorsky Krai is not the extreme north and tigers do not walk around Vladivostok drowning in the snow? We have a completely southern region. For information - on the coast of the Primorsky Territory, regularly freezing bays can be counted on the fingers of one hand. As a rule, these are shallow bays, unsuitable for the base of the fleet, like the Amur bays. And even if they freeze, this is rather thin ice, which is chipped off by an ordinary port icebreaker in a couple of hours. Probably the only exception is the already mentioned Amur Bay, in its shallow part. Yes, there by February it freezes up to half a meter and you can safely drive a car. But this is an exception. On the heavily indented coast of Primorsky Krai, there are more than enough non-freezing deep-water bays. Suffice it to mention the Gulf of Vladimir near Olga, where in Soviet times there was a base for nuclear submarines. The huge non-freezing waters of Strelok Bay, under the cover of about. Putyatin. In Soviet times, this was the main base of the surface forces of the Pacific Fleet. Yes, the entire coast of Primorsky Krai, it does not freeze! I am amazed by Muscovites who, judging on the couch, talk about the Far East. At the same time, for you, that Vladivostok, that Magadan - about somewhere in the same place. If anything we have in the summer, the water temperature reaches 30 degrees and the swimming season is guaranteed until the end of September, and in recent years until mid-October. And the specialist says "it seems that they have found an ice-free bay"! Have you been looking for a long time?
                  1. 0
                    12 November 2021 08: 38
                    Quote: Dmitry Zhuravko
                    God, damn sofa experts!

                    The comment is not an expert opinion. This is a common question-and-answer communication.
                    Quote: Dmitry Zhuravko
                    Do you have any idea what the Far East is? That, for example, Primorsky Krai is not the extreme north and tigers do not walk around Vladivostok drowning in the snow?

                    I have two friends for half their lives in Vladivostok / Primorye have served. One of them even took part in the military council of the Pacific Fleet, as an invited specialist in combat interaction.
                    The question is not only to find an ice-free bay, but to move the fleet base farther - to the north, because now Vladivostok is very vulnerable to a surprise attack and is close to the US bases in Japan and South Korea.
                    So in such an aspiration two in one fit - to transfer the main base of the Pacific Fleet to a safer place where it is possible to provide reliable protection against air strikes and underwater threats, and to make Vladivostok a powerful trade hub for container shipping, leaving only the light forces of the fleet there for basing.

                    If the hands and means reach all this, it will still take a lot of time.
                    Quote: Dmitry Zhuravko
                    I am amazed by Muscovites who, judging on the couch, talk about the Far East.

                    Donetsk, the eighth year, I am typing while sitting in a chair.
                    Quote: Dmitry Zhuravko
                    If anything we have in the summer, the water temperature reaches 30 degrees and the swimming season is guaranteed until the end of September, and in recent years until mid-October.

                    And what are the cyclones ... It was not for nothing that our ships left for the winter in Japan until the RYAV, and Port Arthur was chosen as the main base of the fleet.
                    1. 0
                      12 November 2021 19: 02
                      There is some information that in the recent past the climate of the Far East was subtropical and warmer than in Sochi ...
                      Therefore, tigers have taken root there since that time, although they were thermophilic cats from the beginning.
                      The fact is that almost from the equator in the Pacific Ocean there is some kind of very warm current that covers the Japanese islands and turns a little to the side. But apparently earlier it also warmed the Far East.
                      And apparently a weak branch from it is nailed somewhere in Primorye where it does not freeze in winter.
                      1. 0
                        12 November 2021 21: 41
                        There is such a flow (currents), and their speeds are known. Even under Nikolai-2, there was such a project - a fill dam in a narrow part of the strait, up to Sakhalin. Which was supposed to delay and loop a branch of the warm current and make the climate of Primorye softer, and all ports and bays - ice-free.
                        Stalin also considered this project after the war ... But he decided to build a tunnel on Sakhalin. They did not have time to finish building.
                        When they again started talking about the bridge to Sakhalin (after the Crimean one), they again recalled that project, but decided that it would be more expensive and complicate navigation and fleet maneuvers.
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        There is some information that in the recent past the climate of the Far East was subtropical and warmer than in Sochi ...

                        There is clear evidence that the subtropical climate was even on the southern coast of the Arctic Ocean. And not so long ago. Peaches, trees and grasses grew, which are found in the subtropical zone. Some travelers and ... the military ate peaches frozen in ice.
                        And local aborigines have been feeding their dogs with frozen mammoth meat for a long time.
                        And the mammoth is the same elephant, and there is not so much wool on it. But he eats a LOT. And in their stomachs freshly eaten herbs are just the climatic zone from the Krasnodar Territory and to the south.

                        And the climate is now such because of the "permafrost", which is tens and hundreds of meters under the taiga - a cold accumulator ... When it melts, there will be swamps, as in modern Western Siberia, it melted there earlier.
                      2. 0
                        13 November 2021 00: 17
                        The current is called the Kuroshio. In terms of parameters, it is analogous to the Gulf Stream or even more serious. It carries warm waters from the equator past China, Korea, Japan and further branches to Sakhalin, Primorye, Kamchatka. But not like it used to be. Turns off to the east somewhere. Perhaps because of the meeting with the cold current of Chukotka. But if you turn it to the West, then winter will disappear almost in the entire Far East.
                      3. 0
                        13 November 2021 00: 28
                        Turn? ... What do you have to create?
                        And they will not build a dam ... or maybe they will change their minds.
                      4. 0
                        13 November 2021 02: 45
                        I mean if nature itself turns it. For example, a cold current will disappear and a warm one will stop deviating.
                        And the Gulf Stream warms North-Western Europe. It may be a discovery, but thanks to it palms and subtropical rainforests grow in Ireland.
                        Approximately at the latitude of our Far East.
                      5. 0
                        13 November 2021 03: 48
                        They don't have Permafrost. And here it stretches up to Mongolia inclusive.
                        And the permafrost will begin to melt - in Eastern Siberia, such a hell will begin ... and the swamps are worse than those in Western Siberia.
                        It would be nice to take care of the drainage system ahead of time. With a discharge into the Arctic Ocean.
                        But it will be for a long time.
                        And while the ice is melting, cold bottom currents will take place.
                        But it would be nice to loop a warm current. But then, instead of a bridge, you have to build a dam ... and there - depths. And leave only the passage for navigation in the deepest part. Maybe then it will get warmer.
                        Or just global warming will do its job ... at least in Primorye.
                      6. 0
                        13 November 2021 15: 03
                        And in the European part of Russia (now I have + 120C and rain north of 5 km from Moscow) is it so warm thanks to the Gulf Stream, or does the Mediterranean Sea warm from where does the cyclone after the cyclone go to Moscow and further?
                        And they are very much afraid of stopping the Gulf Stream in Europe.
                        From Sochi to Abkhazia and even to Batumi, the climate becomes already tropical if the average annual temperature is above + 16C? Although humid subtropics are considered. Or the climate was tropical there in the past.
                        Rainforests (for example Colchis) with lianas are very rare for the subtropics.
                        And the hurricanes that hit Sochi this summer are more typical for the Caribbean, but not for the Black Sea ...
                        Perhaps there is a sharp climate change at a much higher rate than in the rest of Russia.
                      7. 0
                        13 November 2021 17: 46
                        The climate is gradually changing, returning to its natural state, but the melting of the "permafrost" will continue for a long time and everything can float in Eastern Siberia. But in the European part, the Urals, Western and Southern Siberia, the climate will be milder.
                        This is a natural process of the end of the ice age.
                        And yes, the level of the World Ocean will most likely rise ... If "global warming" does not lead to the evaporation of large masses of water and the restoration of the water-vapor envelope.
                      8. 0
                        13 November 2021 23: 57
                        That is, the warming in the European part of Russia will be much faster than in the regions of "permafrost"? And it doesn't depend on the Gulf Stream anymore?
                        What then will the climate be in the strip from Sochi to Batumi if there are already humid subtropics there? Will it remind something of Florida and the Caribbean with hurricanes, tropical downpours and a complete lack of winter? Although there is none from Tuapse and further south. There is simply a time when deciduous trees are bare.
                        And in the Crimea on the coast there are ... dried coral reefs! Now they do not live in the Black Sea due to its low salinity.
                        By the way, Greenland is translated as green land or green island. But not icy. And a mammoth weighing over 10 tons needs to gobble up about a ton of greens a day. But where to get it on the glaciers?
                        In Yakutia, when opening frozen carcasses, greens were found in the stomachs that cannot grow in permafrost.
                        It turns out that the mammoths did not starve. And it was believed that the hooves hollowed out the moss, as deer do today.
                      9. 0
                        14 November 2021 01: 10
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        That is, the warming in the European part of Russia will be much faster than in the regions of "permafrost"?

                        On the contrary, even today in Yakutia and Eastern Siberia in general, summer temperatures have increased much more than in the European part. It is warming up there much faster than it might have been expected. That is why I say that soon Eastern Siberia may float and we simply will not recognize it - there are hundreds of meters of ice under it, which is covered with a "blanket" of clay and sand, and Taiga - pine and larch - grows from above ... All this can turn into continuous swamps.
                        But in the middle lane, it will soon be possible to grow pineapples in the beds.
                        They were grown earlier.
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        By the way, Greenland translates as green land

                        And it was like this quite recently - 200 - 300 years ago. Her maps have survived without ice. And the name so inconsistent with the realities would not have lasted long.
                        In the next 30-50 years, the climate may change dramatically.
                        For the better .
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        And a mammoth weighing over 10 tons needs to gobble up about a ton of greens a day.

                        Well, this is a reservation for such a noble animal to devour a tenth of its weight per day ?? belay But a kilogram of 300, or even 500 is quite.
                        And they ate WELL!
                        Therefore, they multiplied and multiplied in the open, roamed in huge herds, were used as pack and draft animals, rolled the children ...
                        And they called them simply - ELEPHANT.
                        Russia in general is the homeland of elephants. The elephant is a Russian animal and the self-word ELEPHANT is Russian.
                        LEANING (how do elephants sleep?).
                        LEAKS.
                        And Turgenev, in the "Notes of a Hunter", described a man in mammoth bast shoes (made of mammoth skin).
                        It just got colder later.
                        And in the frozen wave, whole herds of mammoths (elephants), woolly rhinos, bison and other animals were frozen.
                        But the ice age is coming to an end.
                        Soon in the suburbs and in Germany, palm trees will bloom again. Yes
                      10. 0
                        14 November 2021 16: 31
                        A mammoth could reach a weight of up to 15-20 tons, that's what it needs from a ton of grass per day.
                        It was believed that moss and lichen were hollowed out. Like deer.
                        But in the stomachs, grass and plants are by no means characteristic of even temperate climates.
                        There are in Siberia and the East of the East the names of villages like Slonovka and others. So the truth is not so close?

                        Pineapple, native to the West Indies and Central America, came to Europe in the Middle Ages, around the time of Peter it came to Russia
                        And it was believed that he was grown in greenhouses. They just didn’t say how the telplitsy were heated.
                      11. 0
                        14 November 2021 17: 14
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        And it was believed that he was grown in greenhouses. They just didn’t say how the telplitsy were heated.

                        You can simply in a greenhouse on a manure bed - cow dung that has rotted over the winter in a manure heap is suitable for fertilization, if you make a garden out of it and cover it with a film / glass cover, it HEATS and nourishes. In the Urals, I used to grow gorgeous cucumbers.
                        And pineapples were also grown on dung beds. it is written about this in old books as well. And in the villages too. They seemed to be fermented in barrels ... Perhaps like pickled apples.
                        There are old cookbooks about this.
                      12. 0
                        14 November 2021 17: 28
                        And in the South, he could grow (pineapple) without any insulation at all? For example, in the strip from Tuapse to Abkhazia.
                        And what kind of climate will there be in the future? After all, evaporation from the Black Sea increases in summer, winds carry hurricanes and downpours to the mainland.
                        Will it be like in the Caribbean?
                      13. 0
                        14 November 2021 20: 45
                        I think the climate will settle down over time, especially since there is no ocean coast at all.
                        Greater evaporation of water masses during warming should contribute to the restoration of the water-vapor envelope of the planet. It will turn out to be a wonderful greenhouse effect (what kind of bastard scares the people), which will equalize the temperature on the planet. its heat capacity (atmosphere) will increase. At the equator, the climate will become milder, in the polar regions - warmer.
                        And there will be eternal summer - palm trees in St. Petersburg, Kaliningrad and Hamburg, deciduous forests in Greenland and Magadan ... In Norilsk, apricots and peaches ... and ELEPHANTS in herds across Siberia ...
                        Beauty .

                        Due to the increased density of the atmosphere and the greenhouse effect, there will be no such strong temperature changes, and hence ... hurricanes, tornadoes, tornadoes. There will be just a TROPICAL (and subtropical) PARADISE.
                      14. 0
                        14 November 2021 23: 58
                        That is, those hurricanes that excite Florida, Cuba, Central America are formed in the Atlantic Ocean where trade winds drive warm air at the equator.
                        Well, and the Mediterranean Sea is not so powerful in this regard? There are trade winds in its southern part, but they, on the contrary, drive evaporation into the Atlantic blowing from east to west.
                        So the residents of Abkhazia and the Krasnodar Territory have nothing to fear? Well, the climate there will become even warmer.
                        In Kaliningrad, as in Sweden, palm trees are privately eaten and grow in the ground. But there are only two types of them. And even in Rostov they are. But also only two types.
                      15. 0
                        15 November 2021 00: 46
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        In Kaliningrad, as in Sweden, palm trees are privately eaten and grow in the ground. But there are only two types of them. And even in Rostov they are. But also only two types.

                        smile Down and Out trouble started . From two types of palms and cacti to a tropical paradise - like from the Russo-Japanese War to the Victory in 1945. The whole of Yakutia has gone like hillocks - the permafrost is swollen with gases, the Yakut desert has blossomed (someone poured sand there, and it took and blossomed), poplars and flowers sprout.
                        And Kaliningrad, Peter and Syzran will have to switch captively from cabbage to pineapples. Cockatoo and peacocks will arrive, crocodiles will start in the rivers ...
                        Beauty .
                        And no heating.

                        But the whole of Siberia will spill over with a swamp, so it is now desirable to dig drainage.
                        And they are picking copper and coal there.

                        In my childhood in the South Urals, tomatoes never ripened - they did not have time. They were harvested green and ripened at home on window sills, on cabinets, tables, etc. But they are ripening for 20 years already - for sure.
                        And since then in Arkhangelsk, zucchini and eggplants have been growing and "spike" from the ground.
                        "Global Warming"?
                        No - the glacier is receding. The earth is warming up.
                      16. 0
                        15 November 2021 02: 11
                        This is how crocodiles used to live in the Far East. Small Chinese alligator. For the winter hibernates.
                        Now he only stayed in China. We have died out.
                        And in Antarctica, in ice-free areas, bones of marsupials, spores of plants, fungi, traces of a subtropical climate are found.
                      17. 0
                        15 November 2021 02: 56
                        Here the planet will unfreeze, and again there will be a climatic paradise.
                      18. 0
                        15 November 2021 03: 27
                        How much will the ocean level rise? Arkhangelsk, Petersburg, Kaliningrad, Taganrog, etc. What will happen to them?
                        Even if Greenland flows.
                      19. 0
                        15 November 2021 13: 38
                        Quote: Osipov9391
                        Even if Greenland flows.

                        You can't even imagine how much of this water is in the "Permafrost".
                        And then there is Antarctica, which is also melting.
                        And there are kilometer thick layers of ice. On the South Pole up to 4 kilometers.
                        But these waters - now frozen, were formerly in the water-vapor shell of the planet. So, most likely, they will also evaporate and provide a uniform tropical-subtropical climate.
                      20. 0
                        15 November 2021 17: 39
                        And if you look at 300 million years ago, then Antarctica, being part of Gondwana (all southern continents, and the South Pole was in Africa) was also frozen.
                        The Gondwana glaciation covered all the southern continents. And the huge glacier reached 35 S latitude.
                        At that moment, Donbass, the Urals, North America, Svalbard and Siberia were located at the equator, and luxurious fern forests grew there.
          2. 0
            12 November 2021 21: 09
            In general, it should be said that the purchase and completion of the Liaoning greatly helped the Chinese fleet in terms of personnel training and pilot training, in fact, recouped the construction costs.


            It is more logical to appeal to this Chinese experience when implementing a series of export aircraft-carrying ships. Everyone saw and appreciated the experience. To make such a product of domestic shipbuilding as the "basic basis of an aircraft carrier", which has the minimum of filling, but reliable critical components and, most importantly, is cheap and functionally efficient and has a full resource and does not have accumulated aging. Filling with non-critical parts can be done together with the buyer, after the sale of such a "technical base".
      4. 0
        9 November 2021 12: 30
        aircraft carrier too easy target
        If it comes to the point that an aircraft carrier becomes a target, then the entire continents of the planet will automatically become a target !!! This option is not even considered as an argument for refusing to build aircraft carriers.
    4. +11
      7 November 2021 07: 36
      I remember in those distant years when ... well, etc. They say this pearl belongs to the commentator Ozerov - a report from the World Ice Hockey Championship - we only need a victory, only a victory of the Swedes over the Czechs. And our courageous hockey players have achieved it.
      Very similar to the meaning of the article.
      1. kig
        +5
        7 November 2021 08: 56
        Quote: YOUR
        belongs to commentator Ozerov
        Ozerov did not say this. This joke sounded on KVN in those years.
        1. +1
          7 November 2021 09: 07
          It may very well be. I do not pretend to be the first.
    5. +10
      7 November 2021 07: 47
      And so far we do not have engines for promising destroyers, and the basis of the fleet is made up of fifteen-day "buyanrkarakurt" rickets, at most these are frigates with poor defense against enemy air defense and anti-aircraft defense.
      1. -23
        7 November 2021 08: 28
        Do you know that the Hunter UAV has a range of up to 6000 km?) Questions?)
        1. +9
          7 November 2021 09: 12
          Runner2022-do you know that rockets can fly thousands of kilometers? Questions ???? What does the Hunter have to do with it ????
        2. +3
          7 November 2021 14: 34
          this figure was announced by the GDP, but it did not become real because of this, even if we take the most optimistic figure of the average fuel consumption of 2.5 tons per hour, then it will need 6000 tons to overcome 18.7 km, it will not fit so much, half of it is unlikely to enter , and if we assume that its empty weight is 12-13 tons, and the normal take-off weight is 20 (25 maximum), then it is generally not clear where the range of 6000 came from (even from a tanker, it cannot take so much fuel)
        3. +3
          7 November 2021 14: 37
          Please. answer the questions:
          What weapons does the Hunter have?
          Can a hunter fly over the sea?
          Has the hunter passed the acceptance test?
          Is the hunter adopted?
    6. -16
      7 November 2021 07: 54
      Fools are pouring a lot of money into aircraft carriers, in Russia they have long been saying that the range of an aircraft from an aircraft carrier is 800 km, 400 km in one direction, even if these figures have changed, but not by much, and the range of anti-ship missiles is up to 3000 km. In addition, hypersonic missiles can theoretically destroy an aircraft carrier with their kinetic energy, i.e. without a charge. So, to be sure, load the missile with tactical nuclear ammunition and there is no aircraft carrier. So Lech think you do not need an aircraft carrier and are you ready to go on a hunger ration so that Russia would have these huge coffins.
      1. +1
        7 November 2021 12: 49
        range of anti-ship missiles up to 3000 km

        And how can you see an aircraft carrier at such a distance?
        Or do you propose to shoot missiles in all directions, in the hope that somewhere and yes and meet an aircraft carrier?
      2. +3
        7 November 2021 14: 38
        What kind of rocket flies 3000 km?
      3. +4
        7 November 2021 14: 49
        aircraft range from an aircraft carrier 800 km, one way 400

        the range is already 1000 km in one direction. and with refueling much more
        1. -3
          7 November 2021 16: 28
          you need to consider the patrol range, and this already goes 600-700 km no more
      4. +6
        7 November 2021 14: 57
        Quote: Yuldash Niyazov
        the range of the aircraft from the aircraft carrier is 800 km, in one direction 400 km, even if these numbers have changed, but not by much

        And the Yankees did not even know, considering it a typical task for the 80s of the last century to hit the KUG at a distance of 600 miles. smile
      5. -7
        7 November 2021 16: 42
        That's it. As an instrument of the "big war", AV is unnecessary and even harmful, as a grave for thousands of sailors. Even the AUG and those with the main instrument of influence determine the CR of escort ships for ground targets (and on the sea side they have already forgotten how they shoot in principle, of course they didn’t forget lying). Deck aircraft have not played a single major fiddle in "global events" since 1991. The aircraft carrier component in the fleet is pure politics. Do you need? Well, most likely yes. Moreover, taking into account the expanding "Wagner's symphony" on a global scale.
    7. +1
      7 November 2021 08: 49
      Not represented and thank God.
    8. -1
      7 November 2021 16: 24
      there are ambitions as well as plans, but there is enough sense not to drive horses.
    9. +1
      11 November 2021 14: 36
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Alas, our country is not represented in the club of aircraft carrier owners ... there are no ambitions, no money, no plans for their construction.

      Well, money is like a fool's candy wrappers ... But they are there, from where they will never go to build ships for the fleet. I've been waiting for the appearance of an aircraft carrier yacht of some oligarch for a long time! It is more realistic to see this "aircraft carrier" in our country than as part of the Navy.
    10. 0
      12 November 2021 22: 24
      And it’s not necessary.
    11. 0
      13 November 2021 15: 41
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Survived ... smile The novel dreams of three four AUG China.
      Alas, our country is not represented in the club of aircraft carrier owners ... there are no ambitions, no money, no plans for their construction.

      With such a long land border as ours, it is cheaper and easier to solve everything with the unsinkable aircraft carriers of the "Crimea" project soldier !
    12. 0
      27 January 2022 14: 15
      There are 4 amendments to the content of the article.
      Firstly, China can build ships, but it does not have the necessary experience in using the fleet, there is no network of bases on which it can rely. And it will still be 20-30 years before the moment when the Chinese fleet will not only look cool, but also become really strong.
      Secondly, the Japanese fleet is radically misrepresented. It develops much more slowly, the focus of the Japanese now is no longer quantitative, but qualitative growth and the development of the filling.
      Thirdly, with the development of missiles, the advantage of the AUG has already become far from being so obvious. The same arly burks can deliver a massive strike with 70 tomahawks at a distance of 2k kilometers, and they can also be used as air defense ships that can fire a whole cloud of missiles at aircraft at distances of 70-100 km.
      And the last moment. The Americans have 3-4 AUGs operating at the same time, the rest are under repair and maintenance to ensure continuous rotation. The same applies to China. Now China, creating 3 AUGs, in reality creates only one continuously operating one. And therefore the scale of his fleet is somewhat more modest in reality.
      geopolitically, it is desirable for China to have at least 2 active AUGs. To do this, you need to form at least 5 in total - 2 shifts and one educational and experimental. This means that China is only halfway through the development of its fleet and there is still much to be done. I will also add that China has powerful patrol and coastal forces, but it still has very few full-fledged squadron ships - for example, in fact, the first series of such ships type 055 is in full swing. Satellite images show at least 7 ships under construction.
      But this is the first series, with its inevitable childhood illnesses. And I think that only the second one, based on the operation of the 055 series, will be really combat-ready.
      one more thing is the frankly weak PLO of the Chinese fleet, and it is not at all accidental that both the United States, Japan and Australia are now investing heavily in equipping the most modern submarines on this theater of operations. Moreover, the submarines rely on serious American intelligence forces - both UAVs and satellites, and more trivial ones. And until this problem is satisfactorily resolved, there is no need to talk about any effectiveness of the Chinese AUGs.
  2. +3
    7 November 2021 05: 48
    Fleet of the DNA of tomorrow)) I suspect that the author unwittingly became Cassandra. But the article is quite interesting.
    1. +3
      7 November 2021 06: 01
      But where will this bottom be? In the South China Sea? In the Coral Sea?
      In Pearl Harbor? Under Midway? San Diego?
      The strait "Iron Slot" is waiting for scrap metal.
      1. +6
        7 November 2021 07: 45
        Quote: Alexey Brylev
        Fleet of the BOTTOM OF TOMORROW

        Quote: Private SA
        But where will this bottom be?

  3. -8
    7 November 2021 06: 45
    Sufferers have already come running, and where are the Russian aircraft carriers? Of course they are here.

    Look at the map of the location of the population of China and the Russian Federation. China has both production and population of 60-80 percent located two or three hundred kilometers from the coast. In the Russian Federation, a fair share of the population lives 200-300 kilometers from the land borders with the NATO countries. This will be counted at a time.

    The population of China is ten times more than the population of the Russian Federation. That is, it would be logical to assume that the Russian fleet will be equal to 1/10 of the Chinese one, with commensurate spending on all other weapons. And the Russian Federation has a fleet of about 1/5 of the Chinese, and we started mass construction later, that is, we will reach normal rates, respectively, too. These are two.

    The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are most conveniently compared with the Armed Forces of Japan, the population and incomes of states are plus or minus equal. The total navies of both states are comparable, although the Japanese have a better surface fleet, but there are no nuclear submarines in general, and strategists in particular. Japan has a weaker Air Force, there is no point in comparing the Land Forces, and Japan has no Strategic Missile Forces.
    1. +5
      7 November 2021 06: 51
      Quote: demiurg
      The RF Armed Forces are most conveniently compared with the Japanese Armed Forces

      Japan is generally prohibited from having an army.
      1. -2
        7 November 2021 07: 05
        Well, let's compare the Armed Forces of France + Great Britain against the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. It will even be clearer.
        Will the British Navy + French Navy be able to defeat all four Russian fleets in a fist somewhere in the Norwegian Sea? And let's not measure the payroll, but what is really on the go.
        1. +8
          7 November 2021 07: 23
          I even theoretically cannot imagine 4 fleets of the Russian Federation against the Navy of England and France in some kind of sea.
          1. -2
            7 November 2021 07: 29
            I understand perfectly well that this is an absolutely elastic spherical horse in a vacuum.
            But the sizes of the fleets are quite comparable. Because the tasks are about the same.
      2. +3
        7 November 2021 15: 07
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Japan is generally prohibited from having an army.

        And when the sons of Yamato were stopped by some gaijin inventions? wink


        Is this a prohibited aircraft carrier? No, what are you, how can you - it's just a destroyer-helicopter carrier ... with a displacement of 19,5 kt.
        1. 0
          7 November 2021 15: 12
          These are the self-defense forces. Like in Chechnya there were, only more high-tech.
    2. +10
      7 November 2021 09: 48
      Sufferers)). Valera is an optimist. You probably drive a Chinese car and put food in a Chinese refrigerator. Think about what will happen in another 15 years. With such rates of development of China and rates of degradation as in our army, in the navy, in industry, in mechanical engineering. We have all the advanced equipment in the oil industry - China, it does not yet reach the United States, but in terms of price and quality it is already optimal. At best, our industry reproduces equipment of the 20-25-year-old generation, and then with the use of foreign components. I have little doubt that it is the same in other industries.
      we are still strong and competitive in some ways - space, nuclear power, something else in pharmaceuticals, but we are marking time or rolling downhill, and our "partners" are progressing.
      so suffering now is much better than a cap-and-go mood.
      1. DMi
        -5
        7 November 2021 23: 10
        Degassing in the army ??? Have you been in hibernation for the last 10 years? It's time to wake up, however.
      2. -1
        9 December 2021 17: 46
        "Our industry, at best, reproduces equipment of the 20-25-year-old generation, and then with the use of foreign components."
        Our industry has always been like this ... When the USSR annexed the Drohobych "cluster" to the Ukrainian SSR in 1939, even the ancient Austro-Hungarian technologies were suitable for both oil refineries and drilling rigs ...
    3. IC
      -1
      7 November 2021 11: 13
      We must also take into account and compare the population and economy of Russia in the Pacific region with China, Japan and South Korea.
    4. +6
      7 November 2021 13: 43
      state revenues plus minus are equal.
      Japan's GDP is more than three times that.
      1. 0
        9 December 2021 17: 47
        Moreover, the GDP has been greater since 1982 ...
    5. 0
      12 November 2021 19: 33
      The RF Armed Forces are most conveniently compared with the Japanese Armed Forces

      The total navies of both states are comparable

      The Japanese have only 8 modern URO destroyers, which have no analogues in our fleet and cannot be expected, and these are the main attack ships.
      There is no modern anti-submarine aviation, as well as AWACS aircraft in our fleet, but the Japanese do, and this is the most important component of a modern fleet, without which all long-range anti-ship missiles are just a piece of scrap metal.
  4. +1
    7 November 2021 08: 03
    Yes, everything is quite logical ...
  5. -18
    7 November 2021 08: 30
    Amateurs: Crying for Aircraft Carriers

    Pros: drool over the range of the UAV ,, Hunter ,,
    1. +11
      7 November 2021 14: 59
      Quote: Runner2022
      Amateurs: Crying for Aircraft Carriers

      Pros: drool over the range of the UAV ,, Hunter ,,

      Realists: turning away from the numbers drawn in the tablets, they look with sadness at the domestic industry.
  6. -6
    7 November 2021 09: 37
    it is obvious that AB are useless in the South China Sea, but Kivai needs aircraft carriers in remote areas off the African coast where the PRC has many economic interests
  7. Eug
    0
    7 November 2021 09: 46
    In realizing its ambitions in Southeast Asia, China will face a serious struggle with a group of states, which practically all (except for Vietnam, which is also by no means a friend of China) are under the serious influence of the Anglo-Saxons. In addition, the United States and its allies have as many as two lines of containment of the PRC fleet (along the "chains" of islands) in the coastal seas. As for me, these factors - not to mention the clearly defined strategy of "strangling" China - will prevent the Chinese fleet from achieving the desired dominance in the short term, maximum in the coastal seas, and that is questionable. You can, of course, start "gnawing" the islands one by one and in small groups, but this is already an open war. It is not a fact that the Anglo-Saxons will decide on it, they will, as always, fight with someone else's hands, in this case - non-nuclear countries, so that a global violent conflict does not arise, but economic actions will become much harder, right up to a naval blockade. Of course, I am an ignoramus in naval strategy, but, as for me, the US and its allies' fleets are quite capable of blocking the "entrances and exits" to the Chinese seas.
    1. 0
      7 November 2021 10: 07
      Namely, these AUGs will be corked in the bases in 24 hours, the rest will be flooded like Siamese kittens.
  8. +12
    7 November 2021 10: 21
    By the way, a fresh photo 003. The descent is planned to the Chinese NG.


    AWACS is already the second plane flying.

    And here is the Maksarovskoe photo of the plant with two shipborne AWACS in the frame.


    Well, the destroyer column works without failures, this year 2x055 (105 - Dalian already and 106 - Yanan will be adopted in November-December) and 5 052D. Even Grachat in the Navy overcame the pace.


    Well, but modernization is the case. For example, a unique destroyer from the 00s Shenzhen was made in terms of time as the destroyer 052D - as a result, of course, they delivered YJ-12 (supersonic anti-ship missiles), but in terms of combat qualities it is like this (frigate set of 32 Calm + Radar Fregat + 8-16 anti-ship missiles YJ-12 + two helicopters, this is its only plus in fact). ...
  9. +1
    7 November 2021 10: 22
    Well, there is no doubt about what the Chinese will do, but we, as always, do not have enough resources, not human resources, not financial ones, until our time has come, it is clear that it may be too late, but we are not the USSR, and we are not China.
  10. -2
    7 November 2021 10: 46
    Well, good fellows are the Chinese for the Chinese. And we are waiting for articles about the icebreaker fleet. Why don't we compare the world's icebreaker fleets to find out who is the leading icebreaker power and who is the hopeless outsider.
    1. IC
      +1
      7 November 2021 11: 16
      And also in the field of ballet ...
      1. -3
        7 November 2021 23: 14
        You shouldn't laugh! Do you think America is protected on all sides by oceans? Our icebreakers will lead caravans with armored troops. Here is the argument, not 30 airplanes !!!
        soldier soldier soldier soldier soldier soldier soldier
  11. 0
    7 November 2021 12: 42
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Japan is generally prohibited from having an army.

    Self-defense forces only. But, I repeat once again - I vividly imagine
    sea ​​wolf from k.f. "Yamato" in the cockpit of the missile frigate "Marine
    Japan Self-Defense Forces. "
  12. -8
    7 November 2021 17: 42
    Three squadrons, three AUG = three new coral = reefs ...
  13. -8
    7 November 2021 17: 49
    Oh, Mr. Skomorokhov, you are such an um ... expert, it is already getting scary, or rather funny .. The PRC is extending the trade war and will waste the "hot" one. Do you know what happens when a 3-year-old who has become obnoxious rushes at a seasoned leader, they gnaw his throat, here one difference will not break China x = rebet, but only bite off his paws, he will be able to crawl, but no more.
    And another question why, as far as the PRC is concerned, do you admire their AV so much, as our fleet, you are their principal enemy, in other words "whose money is Billy"?
  14. -11
    7 November 2021 20: 31
    To be honest, the whiners "Russia does not have AUG" are already bored! By placing the strike systems in orbit, you can keep the entire earth's surface in sight. And while there are no effective systems to counter threats from space, you can turn the moon into an almost impregnable fortress! Moreover, you can act preventively. If you destroy the launch sites at Cape Canaveral, the Vanderberg base and the Kuru cosmodrome for a while, you can protect yourself from unpleasant surprises.
  15. DMi
    0
    7 November 2021 23: 27
    And on the Chinese forums they whine that they do not have such a bomber as the TU160. And the Russian Federation is building a ballistic missile launch detection station for China, because they do not know how. They cannot copy AL31. Whining, and the desire to measure the size of the neighbor, is a favorite pastime of the homosapiens.
    I just thought, tomorrow the Russian Federation has the same fleet as in China. Well, by magic. And what will our admirals and general staff do with him ?? Where will they stick? What will they do ?? And most importantly, what to support? The same fleet of 300 pennants and three or four aircraft carriers every day will suck money, and not very small.
  16. +5
    8 November 2021 07: 03
    So, if you dream a little, then: by 2030, in just 9 years, China may have three aircraft carriers. And even four, if everything goes as the Chinese command would like.

    Using these ships, three AUGs will be formed, which will enhance the capabilities of the Chinese fleet and put the fleet into new orbits. The fleet will be able to protect the interests of China in any area of ​​the World Ocean.


    Why not three strike formations of missile ships with support aircraft carriers?
    Why not one carrier formation with three aircraft carriers?

    People, stop thinking in templates!
    Although the article is otherwise correct.

    But templates!
    1. 0
      8 November 2021 18: 15
      China has 18 thousand km of coastal line, many convenient bays that do not freeze in winter, the coast has the highest population density, heavy engineering facilities are also mainly concentrated along the coast, so China has all the conditions for building a strong fleet with aircraft carriers.
      1. +2
        8 November 2021 22: 16
        Russia has all serious enemies somewhere overseas, the biggest military threat is a nuclear strike from under water, a war in an overseas theater of operations and extreme dependence on export supplies by sea.

        Nobody cares whether we have conditions or not.
  17. +3
    8 November 2021 20: 44
    In one country, the Communist Party is in power, which is NOT at war with its past, moreover, monuments to the generals of the Middle Ages are erected. In another country, a "young democracy with a 30-year history" is in power by former bandits who have now become "respected businessmen" and their protégés - political prostitutes. There is a war with the past, streets are renamed, history is being rewritten. It is not in China that the mausoleums are clogged with the flags of Nazi collaborators. Schools, colleges, polyclinics, factories are not being closed in China, but instead 3 churches are opening a day. Not in the Chinese media is the propaganda of the basest instincts. Not in Chinese films is the propaganda of "gangster romance". It is not in China that they pour mud on their own history and their own leaders. So the result is natural.
    1. -1
      9 December 2021 17: 41
      Turned out Lenin, Lunacharsky and Pokrovsky with their "damned past")))
  18. +2
    9 November 2021 03: 07
    China was just lucky with the country's leadership. They did not have Gorbachev and Yeltsin and there is no Putin and his gang, so the country is developing by leaps and bounds, as we once did.
    1. 0
      12 November 2021 12: 33
      Yes, they turned out to have wise leaders back in 78, they realized that it was enough to play don't understand, that it was necessary to urgently build a market economy.
      1. 0
        12 November 2021 19: 10
        Ours began to build a market economy in 1991, when the economy of our country was much more powerful than the Chinese, and where are the Chinese now and where are we, with a market economy?
        And by the way, in China, all mining enterprises, all heavy engineering, all aircraft manufacturing, all ports, airports, railways are state-owned, as well as communications, including mobile, and 80% of the banking sector is controlled by state-owned banks.
        The economy can be built in different ways. You can sell out working enterprises, which the new owners will demolish, drive people out into the street, the equipment will be handed over for scrap, and the land will be sold for building, like ours.
        Or it is possible like in China, where the state builds huge enterprises that ensure the sustainable development of the state, invests money in the development of the state, and not in the maintenance of the President and his oligarch friends, and shoots government officials-embezzlers and does not make them hero-patriots.
        1. -1
          9 December 2021 17: 39
          Why then began to build a market economy in our country in 1991, since the state one was so powerful and good?
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. 0
    12 November 2021 09: 45
    Quote: bayard
    And what are the cyclones ... It was not for nothing that our ships left for the winter in Japan until the RYA, and Port Arthur was chosen as the main base of the fleet.

    Cyclones are like cyclones. No better and no worse than the Black Sea. The coast of the Primorsky Territory is replete with bays, bays and islands. There are many closed deep-water bays in which no storm is terrible. Those are the same Vladimir and Strelok, Pavlovsk, not to mention Vladivostok. KTOF was based there in Soviet times, along with all ships of the first rank, including Lazarev and the Ural. And at the expense of "went to winter in Japan", that's a bike tales. What could be found in Japan, which is not in Vladivostok? Only if the girls are exotic. The bays are non-freezing, and we have them. And to hide from typhoons in Japan, excuse me, like from g ... on in the toilet. Well, as for the choice of Port Arthur puddle as the main base, who just did not walk, that this was the main stupidity of the tsarist command, which led to the catastrophe of the Russo-Japanese War, and to the revolution, in fact, too. So-so example. A brigade of Vladivostok cruisers operated from the slightly freezing Golden Horn, unlike the more successful Port Arthur squadron, from the non-freezing Port Arthur. Sorry, for Moskvich, but the majority, beyond the Urals, represent the Far East in approximately the same way - everyone is in about the same place - somewhere on the edge of the world, cold, cloudy, wild. The Far East is huge and different. And if about the Kuriles, or Magadan, what was said is relatively true. That Primorye is a southern and quite resort region. Donetsk is men!
  21. 0
    12 November 2021 09: 54
    Quote: bayard
    for now Vladivostok is very vulnerable to a surprise strike and is close to the US bases in Japan and South Korea

    The bases of Japan, where they were, remained there (although of course the Americans and Koreans also deliver). Nevertheless, the unique geography of Vladivostok, hiding behind a chain of islands, backed up by a perfect defense system, has always cooled hot Japanese heads from an attack, both in the RYA and in the Second World War.
  22. 0
    12 November 2021 09: 57
    Quote: bayard
    and make Vladivostok a powerful trading hub for container shipping

    Nakhodka / Vostochny has long been the main trading port of the Far East.
  23. 0
    12 November 2021 22: 29
    I get the feeling that Russia and China are in the process of replacing places, we are moving into the role of ... backward ones.
    1. -2
      9 December 2021 17: 37
      China has been a superpower for 2,5 years in a row ...
      If your personal childhood and the childhood of your parents fell on its short-term decline, this only speaks of the transience of a single human life, the experience of which is dangerous to overestimate and spread over long time periods ...
      1. -1
        9 December 2021 22: 45
        China has never been a superpower, it has always been under someone, it was conquered by all and sundry, and in passing.
        1. -1
          13 December 2021 16: 47
          Urgently to school ...
  24. 0
    3 December 2021 14: 49
    Only Russia sings mantras about its land and is building helicopter carriers of 40000 tons displacement. One gets the feeling that sabotage in the spirit of the Industrial Party is flourishing.
  25. 0
    27 December 2021 12: 22
    Quote: demiurg
    The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are most conveniently compared with the Armed Forces of Japan, the population and incomes of states are plus or minus equal. The total navies of both states are comparable, although the Japanese have a better surface fleet, but there are no nuclear submarines in general, and strategists in particular. Japan has a weaker Air Force, there is no point in comparing the Land Forces, and Japan has no Strategic Missile Forces.

    Why don't you compare with Great Britain or India, for example? Comparison in terms of population is not entirely correct. Then the USA should have 20% of the Chinese fleet, or vice versa, 3-5 times more than the USA!
  26. 0
    27 December 2021 12: 24
    Quote: 75Sergey
    I get the feeling that Russia and China are in the process of replacing places, we are moving into the role of ... backward ones.

    Retarded from whom?
  27. 0
    27 December 2021 12: 38
    Quote: ramzay21
    The economy can be built in different ways. You can sell out working enterprises, which the new owners will demolish, drive people out into the street, the equipment will be handed over for scrap, and the land will be sold for building, like ours.
    Or it is possible like in China, where the state builds huge enterprises that ensure the sustainable development of the state, invests money in the development of the state, and not in the maintenance of the President and his oligarch friends, and shoots government officials-embezzlers and does not make them hero-patriots.

    I wonder if you know with whose money the Chinese Economic Miracle was built? In the 50-60s for our money and technologies, and in the 80-90s for American, British and European. And only after 2000, the Chinese economy began to actively grow on its own, having significantly reduced investments in US government bonds. That allowed her to increase her own economic growth and start a large-scale rearmament of the army and navy, which so frightened the US government.
    Another insult to the authorities! How are we still alive, since everything was demolished and everyone was kicked out ?!
  28. 0
    27 December 2021 12: 47
    Quote: Dmitry Zhuravko
    However, the unique geography of Vladivostok, hiding behind a chain of islands, backed up by a perfect defense system, has always cooled hot Japanese heads from an attack, both in the RYA and in the Second World War.

    I agree with you, but the moment is only coming when it is necessary to create a fundamentally new military infrastructure. It is necessary to withdraw ships and vessels from Vladivostok to a normal naval base (for example, in Fokino and Danube: the Abrek, Robber and Nazimova Bay) with the construction of a normal naval base for ships of rank 1-2. For Vladivostok to develop as the capital of Primorye, a lot needs to be changed.
  29. 0
    27 December 2021 12: 52
    Quote: agond
    China has 18 thousand km of coastal line, many convenient bays that do not freeze in winter, the coast has the highest population density, heavy engineering facilities are also mainly concentrated along the coast, so China has all the conditions for building a strong fleet with aircraft carriers.

    Not only, but more than 200 dry docks with heavy crane equipment and dozens of shipbuilding companies, both their own and joint ones, which ultimately made it possible to enter the top 20 largest maritime powers in 3 years.
  30. 0
    27 December 2021 13: 02
    Quote: demiurg
    Well, let's compare the Armed Forces of France + Great Britain against the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. It will even be clearer.
    Will the British Navy + French Navy be able to defeat all four Russian fleets in a fist somewhere in the Norwegian Sea? And let's not measure the payroll, but what is really on the go.

    Well, try it, give this alignment in the article. It is interesting to read modern science fiction - the Anglo-French squadron against the Russian fleet. As far as I remember, the last time this happened in the Crimean War, and even then because of our stupidity. And to collect 4 of our fleets from Scandinavia, this can only dream of delirium!
  31. 0
    14 January 2022 14: 27
    in addition, it is planned to launch aircraft using electromagnetic catapults, which will actually make it possible to take on board more aircraft.


    how will the catapult allow you to take more aircraft?
    What kind of nonsense?

    Not only is the whole article sycophant-Chinese, but also nonsense is stuck.