BDK project 11711: is the mine layer option needed?

30

Source: Wikipedia.org

The Russian media last week published information that the new Project 11711 large landing craft of the Ivan Gren type could be used as minelayers. The information, I must say, was presented unambiguously, as "be afraid of us, we are out there."

However, here it is worth taking and figuring out whether this is really so.



In fact, the ships of project 11711 of the Ivan Gren type and 11711u of the Vladimir Andreev type may well be used as minelayers. This was originally laid down during the development of the project. Ever since Soviet times, large landing ships had the ability to plant mines through the aft ramp, and project 11711 large landing ships were no exception.


Source: mil.ru

Mina, despite the apparent simplicity of the design, is still relevant as a means of destroying ships, blocking straits and water areas.

There is nothing better than a quiet and almost innocent device on the approaches to, say, a port or harbor. Mines are still difficult to find, you still need to have specialized ships for search and neutralization.

And still, a mine is the easiest and cheapest way to destroy a ship. Here's a look at a snapshot of San Diego Harbor. One of the most famous US Navy bases.


Or Pearl Harbor.


Agree, it is very tempting to slowly throw mines at the exit from the harbor and then wait for the results. Naturally, the Americans also understand the essence of such temptations and regularly conduct mine-finding exercises in their waters.

And what could arrange a minefield set up, say, in the Persian Gulf? If one tanker, running aground, caused a small oil crisis, then what can two or three ships do when half a ton of explosives exploded under their bottoms?

We are simply silent about the narrow straits of the Sulu Sea or the Sulawesi Sea.

In general, the mine is not at all obsolete, despite its long history... It's still fatal to the ship weaponcapable of destroying or fatally damaging a ship of any class.


Mines became more sensitive, acquired "brains", formed several deadly families: magnetic, acoustic, hydrodynamic, induction. Or combining several principles of work at once.

Naturally, minelayers, that is, ships capable of placing mines in any area of ​​the World Ocean, seem to be relevant as well.

The BDK of project 11711 can take on board several hundred sea mines, it is a rather large ship capable of solving such a problem as setting up an obstacle capable of blocking not only a port or a strait, but also a vast area of ​​the sea.

“Can accept” and “can deploy” are still different things, and here's why: the large landing craft “Ivan Gren” is able to take on board a cargo of sea mines from setting off. Where is the question.

At a speed of 16 knots, the Ivan Gren is capable of covering 3500 miles. Is it a lot or a little? We use a calculator. 3500 miles is 6500 km. That is, 3250 km one way without refueling.

If Ivan Gren leaves Murmansk (and Gren and Morgunov are part of the Northern fleet), then 3500 km is in the UK region. Yes, there is where the minelayer can turn around, but the question arises: will he be allowed to do this?

Definitely not.

NATO intelligence will find the ship even when it crawls past the territorial waters of NATO member Norway.


And it is doubtful that the landing ship, confidently going somewhere in the direction of Great Britain, will not arouse suspicion. A landing ship is an amphibious assault ship. And he can go either to where the landings will be practiced or the landing forces will actually land, or ...

Or it is a minelayer disguised as an amphibious assault ship.

Of course, there may be options, but NATO is not stupid either. Therefore, it is doubtful that the Grenoux will be given the opportunity to slowly gurgle mines into the English Channel. The threat is too great that it will work out. And planting mines in the middle of the ocean is nonsense.

"Gren" or "Morgunov", which will be loaded with mines, say, in Kronstadt, will be able to block the Baltic Sea anywhere. But the Baltic, filled with mines, is already such an old story that it’s even unpleasant to remember. In any case, a mine war in the Baltic Sea is leading to the isolation of Russian ships.

And it is doubtful that the combined fleets of Germany, Denmark, Poland and other countries will provide an opportunity for such an operation. Project 11711 is too visible to be able to plant several hundred mines and not get in the field of view of NATO allies. A bit of a wrong time, you must agree.

Orbital satellites, patrol and reconnaissance aircraft, more modern radars - all this will play against the BDK in the role of a mine-loader.

And most importantly, in war / conflict conditions, the BDK is an excellent target for anyone, a ship or an attack aircraft. AK-630M-2 "Duet" is, of course, a weapon, but designed to work at the closest distance. Igla-V is also a good MANPADS, but you understand, not for long range.

That is, the patrol aircraft will "lead" the Gren with complete impunity, and the same (for example) frigates "Baden-Württemberg" will launch their "Harpoons". The Duet may or may not knock down the Harpoon.

What is all this for? "Ivan Gren" needs cover. From planes, from ships, submarines, from the same mines. That is, it is no longer a single ship, but a compound. And already there is absolutely no question of disguise.

Total: BDK as a minelayer can only be good when it comes to laying mines in their waters, at a short distance from their bases. Only then can a more or less secretive setting of mines be ensured.

And not secretive is not interesting to anyone. It makes sense to risk the crew and the ship if it immediately becomes clear that Gren is laying mines in the area and to stop it in any way, from a rocket to a torpedo. And the mine setting itself will be uncovered, and its price will be zero.

Placing mines at a distance from bases is not a matter for the project 11711 large landing craft. The fact that some of our media have voiced the possibility of using amphibious ships as mine layers is not a bad thing. The BDK can be used to distract the enemy's attention from real performances.

And the real setting of mines can not be done with the help of surface ships, which yell at the whole ocean that they are laying mines.

Submarines or airplanes are used for hidden mine installations, which are really very dangerous precisely because they are placed secretly.

The mines that the submarine put out of their torpedo tubes are so dangerous that no one knows about their presence in the area. Especially if the boat is not "lit up" anywhere.

An airplane flying at low altitude and dropping mines is also a very, very unpleasant phenomenon. And both methods of laying mines can be much more effective than dropping mines from a surface ship.

The fact that in the functions of the Ivan Gren-class ships there is such an option as setting mines from the stern ramp is not bad. But ships can only use this function in their own waters, under reliable protection. aviation and other ships. Any other attempt to lay mines will be unambiguously stopped by enemy means.
30 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -7
    4 November 2021 06: 08
    The Grens can, for example, cover the northern position of the Boreis with mines.
    In the area of ​​the mother's ball or the Kara gate.
    And in the Pacific Ocean, tightly sealing the gulf of Shelikhov.

    Only this possibility justifies their construction. The delivery of the troops is a nice bonus.
    1. +7
      4 November 2021 09: 14
      Quote: demiurg
      sealing the gulf of Shelikhov

      Why "seal" this bay?
      1. 0
        4 November 2021 16: 51
        Don't go yourself and we won't give it to others.
  2. +5
    4 November 2021 06: 34
    There is someone to put mines, but with mine and airborne assault vehicles, sadness ...
  3. +5
    4 November 2021 07: 11
    There are no modern mines in the fleet yet, all the mines are still of the Soviet model, which in the majority are already outdated, and the "surface" complex has not yet been finished, they promise that the mines from the "surface" are able to determine the type of target by physical fields. The AI ​​of the control unit must process the incoming signals. Due to this, it is possible to increase both the combat effectiveness of the obstacle and its survivability. Having identified a minesweeper, the complex will be to some extent protected from its means of dealing with mines. Accordingly, the likelihood of successful preservation of the obstacle increases with the subsequent defeat of real targets. We are waiting for news from the Fleet on the tests and the date of acceptance of the complex for service, if it passes them
    1. +6
      4 November 2021 08: 24
      Mines with intellectual stuffing, this is just for the piece-setting of mines off the coast of the enemy, where there are many minesweepers, and you need to understand the goals. But they are expensive and will not become widespread. Not a single state on the planet will take out the setting of a large field. It is more of an offensive weapon.

      But to block the strait 100-200-300 miles near their shores, these are just relatively cheap mines that have hardly changed since the 30s of the last century. Nobody will let them trawl, you cannot pass unnoticed without active sonars.
    2. +1
      4 November 2021 09: 29
      Quote: Codett
      There are no modern mines in the fleet yet, all the mines are still of the Soviet model, which in the majority are already outdated

      Why are you dissatisfied with SMDM, MDM? The same "Skif"?
    3. +2
      4 November 2021 11: 48
      In general, it seems to me rational to plant mines by an underwater drone.

      This is either the mine itself with an engine, which goes to a given point and stands there, with the possibility of returning or self-destruction in time. This is for places where you don't need much, but it is very critical, and she can also paddle up to the enemy's ship herself.

      Or it is a large returnable "torpedo" of the "Poseidon" type, on which, instead of special warheads, several classic mines are fixed (on the sides or inside). I'm not talking about Poseidon by accident, because there are already carriers of it in the form of modernized boats. Stealth can be the key here, because it is easier to bring a relatively small drone to the enemy base than a huge nuclear-powered ship. And its loss during mining is not as critical as the carrier.
      1. +1
        4 November 2021 15: 25
        Quote: RealPilot
        This is either the mine itself with an engine, which goes to a given point and stands there, with the possibility of returning or self-destruction in time.

        This is called a self-transporting mine. MDS, SMDM, Mk67 SLMM.
  4. +14
    4 November 2021 08: 11
    Agree, it is very tempting to slowly throw mines at the exit from the harbor and then wait for the results. Naturally, the Americans also understand the essence of such temptations and regularly conduct mine-finding exercises in their waters.
    The Americans experienced the effectiveness of mine-laying in their own skin. This is how A. Shirokorad described it.

    October 1950. An armada of American ships, which included battleships and aircraft carriers, moved to the North Korean port of Wonsan to land an assault force as part of a corps in order to encircle the North Korean army. By that time, North Korea had neither warships nor aircraft, and the USSR and the PRC had not yet intervened in the conflict. The landing operation went smoothly, as in an exercise. Suddenly the Pentagon was shocked by an incredible telegram from Rear Admiral Smith: "The American Navy has lost its dominance at sea in Korean waters ..." The Americans began intensive trawling. Five minesweepers were killed by mines, several minesweepers and two destroyers were seriously damaged.

    But the main thing was different: the landing was delayed for more than 10 days. All this time, the ships with the landing party dangled in the sea near Wonsan. At a distance of only 300 km from them were in full combat readiness regiments of Tu-4 and Il-28 bombers, which could be covered by hundreds of MiG-15s. The airborne formation could be done away with in a few hours. But the order was not followed ... But the American marines, who were packed on ships literally like herring in a barrel, were overtaken by another enemy - dysentery. Only on one ship "Marine Phoenix" 750 people fell ill with severe dysentery. During these 10 days, the North Korean army managed to withdraw relatively calmly, and the Americans entered the empty city with a delay of two weeks.
  5. +20
    4 November 2021 09: 18
    We are waiting for the next articles.
    Ivan Gren-Does he need an anchor.
    Project 11711 - why does the captain need a cap, or not everything is so simple.
    1. +2
      4 November 2021 18: 43
      Your comment made my day! Class! good
  6. +15
    4 November 2021 09: 31
    Gren goes to mine the English Channel ... Roman, how lucky Russia is that you are not an admiral of the Russian Navy !!!!
  7. +5
    4 November 2021 10: 39
    The Grens also have the opportunity to throw mines, so it's a blessing!
    To condemn such a ship's versatility is like condemning a multitool knife for having scissors in it.
  8. +4
    4 November 2021 10: 39
    ... Nobody is positioning these BDKs as minelayers. The very possibility of placing mines is just mentioned as an additional option.
  9. +5
    4 November 2021 10: 44
    The article is, of course, tough. Quietly, in passing, options for a mine war are being considered, from which the sea wolves would have both the first and the second world spirit would have captured. I remember that ours dabbled in this on foreign shores in the First World War, and the Germans in the Great Patriotic War. From surface carriers. Mines from 636 and 877 boats are, yes, this is customary. But a surface minesag in war paint? And, in principle, hidden mine laying on foreign shores in a war is the business of aviation and submarines, and in peacetime it is pure terrorism. 11711 will be able to effectively set up barrage fields even in the Barents or Kara Seas, closing the straits on Novaya Zemlya and blocking decent sea areas, including mine traps-packets. It is quite a necessary function for the defense of its own waters and shores.
  10. +5
    4 November 2021 11: 34
    the article is empty, the moment when the article for the sake of bukof
  11. PPD
    +1
    4 November 2021 12: 02
    Any other attempt to lay mines will be unambiguously stopped by enemy means.

    Is not a fact. Why bully yourself? They say it's not even worth trying - they will find, kill, zEzhut. This position is flawed. We are weak, Syria, poor - the enemy controls every millimeter. Under each wave a boat, behind each cloud a bomber.
    This is all the same position - "there is no beast worse than a cat." With such a mood, no forces and means will be enough.
  12. +4
    4 November 2021 12: 25
    It's a pity that when Gren was being built, Skomorokhov was not asked.
  13. +3
    4 November 2021 12: 52
    I did an internship on the cruiser "Alexander Nevsky". On the poop, on the starboard and starboard sides, there were rails for laying mines. Mister Skomorokhov cruiser fools built?
    1. +2
      4 November 2021 13: 52
      Minzag "Kushka" DKBF. "Fin"
      I had a chance to take part in its conversion into
      floating communications center of the fleet and the transition to Swinoustye (1972).
      By the way, together with BDK.
      Riveted, draft 8 m, at low tide in the channel "leaned" against the wall.
  14. +4
    4 November 2021 14: 07
    The article does not take into account two aspects:
    1) Perhaps the main one is the BDK, this is a weapon, so to speak, of the second echelon of an offensive war at sea, and in the event of a defensive war, they become dead tonnage. But if they have the ability to be used as a minelayer, then this is just wonderful - after all, a mine is, first of all, a defensive weapon, and quite heavy and oversized, and such a ship can block the approaches to the naval base or an amphibious assault area of ​​the coast in one run. Moreover, with the correct installation of modern mines, their danger to their own navigation is minimal, and is determined mainly by navigational errors when setting mines and cases of breakage of anchor mines.
    2) Mines can also be deployed to protect the bridgehead captured by the landing party, without distracting, or distracting in a smaller number of warships for this task. Even the simplest trough, on which a 76mm marine machine gun is stuck, cruising 5-6 miles from the coast, is capable of causing trouble. Moreover, for all marines' firepower, it will be almost invulnerable. But if you set mines in such a way as to force the enemy to approach the coast, under fire from tanks, artillery and anti-tank systems, or, on the contrary, move away from the sea, beyond the range of cannon artillery, this is a completely different matter.
  15. +1
    4 November 2021 14: 45
    In modern realities, it is a matter of laying mines behind aircraft and submarines. In the near future, and submarine drones.
  16. +1
    4 November 2021 14: 58
    after the first paragraph, I scrolled through the article to see the author, I guessed it !!!!
  17. 0
    4 November 2021 14: 59
    An option that will be unclaimed in reality.
    1. +1
      5 November 2021 20: 04
      Why is it not in demand? Mine laying is carried out both for offensive purposes, and Gren is not suitable for this, and for defensive purposes, and for these purposes Gren will even be very useful, and in the event of a big war, perhaps this is the only thing he can do! It is unlikely that he will be given troops in Britain to land wassat
  18. 0
    4 November 2021 15: 15
    There are no mines, so you need to train different directors. BDK are good, of course, aviation is better, but it is not.
  19. -2
    4 November 2021 16: 04
    We have had a "funny fleet" for a long time. What tasks can the fleet perform? None. Mines and torpedoes of the 60-70 level of the last century. And then recently they swung at the revival of the MPA. In short, props with caps are everywhere ...
  20. +1
    4 November 2021 16: 50
    And not secretive is not interesting to anyone.
    Interesting: so that all sorts of Defenders do not violate, for example.
  21. 0
    4 November 2021 18: 48
    Such ships should be armed with a naval version of the 152-mm howitzer "Coalition" to support the landing, and this has not yet been observed. If anything, it will be possible to equip ammunition of special power.