Military Review

Rocket complex Club-K. Criticism and perspectives

56
Rocket complex Club-K. Criticism and perspectives

... the battle was inevitable. In 17: 28, the flagmen lowered the Dutch flag, and a cloth with a swastika hoisted on the gaff - at the same time, the Cormoran raider (German cormorant) fired a volley from its six-inch and torpedo tubes.

The mortally wounded Australian cruiser "Sydney" with the last effort drove three projectiles into the German gangster and, engulfed in flames from bow to stern, left the battlefield. The situation on the raider was also bad - shells were thoroughly requested by Cormoran (the former diesel-electric ship, Steiermark) and the GEM transformers were disabled. The raider lost his turn, there were extensive fires. At night, the Germans had to leave the ship, at that time the glow of the dying Sydney was still on the horizon ...

317 German sailors landed on the coast of Australia and, observing exemplary order, surrendered; the fate of the Sydney cruiser is unknown - no one escaped from the 645 man. Thus ended the unique naval battle of 19 on November 1941, in which an armed civilian ship sank a real cruiser.

Where does the smart hide the sheet? In the woods

Rocket Container Complex weapons Club-K externally is a set of three standard 20- or 40-foot freight containers, in which are located a universal starting module, a combat control module and a module for power supply and auxiliary systems. The original technical solution makes the "Club" almost undetectable until its use. The cost of the kit is half a billion rubles (frankly, not so little - the Mi-8 helicopter costs as much, for example).

The Club uses a wide range of ammunition: X-35 Uran anti-ship missiles, 3М-54Т, 3М-54ТЭ1 and 3М-14Т missiles of the Caliber complex for defeating surface and ground targets. The “Club-K” complex can be equipped with coastal positions, surface ships and vessels of various classes, railway and automobile platforms.

Analogues

In a broad sense, the practice of disguising weapons has been known since the birth of humanity.
In the narrow sense - analogs of the “Club” complex do not exist.

ABL at the stern of the USS Mississippi nuclear missile cruiser

Of the systems closest in purpose, I managed to recall only the Armored Box Launcher (ABL) armored launcher for launching Tomahawks. ABL were installed in 80-e years on the destroyers of the type "Spryuens", battleships, as well as on the heliports of nuclear cruisers of the type "Virginia" and "Long Beach". Of course, no universality was foreseen - the ABL was a compact box-type launcher and was used exclusively on warships. ABL was retired after the appearance of the new Mark-41 DPS.

Club-K for attack

If a samurai takes the sword out of the scabbard on 5 centimeters - he should stab him with blood. Special chic was the ability to kill the enemy in one motion, only for a moment showing the weapon and hiding it back. These ancient rules are best suited for describing the Soviet "special purpose trains." The strategic missile rail-based complex RT-XNUMHUTTH "Molodets" guaranteed to provide the enemy with a "one-way ticket".

The developers of the “Club” complex often draw an analogy between their product and the PT-23UTTH. But here there is the following “nuance”: the “Well done” ICBM railway complex is intended for a preventive / retaliatory nuclear strike in the event of a global war; it is understood that the re-shot is no longer required. Such a weapon should be hidden and masked as far as possible, so that at the right moment you suddenly “snatch it out of its sheath” and hit the enemy on the other end of the Earth with one blow.

Unlike the truly formidable RT-XNUMHUTTH, the “Club” complex is a tactical weapon and its power is not so great that with one, ten, or even a hundred launches to do away with the enemy forces.

During the Desert Storm, the US Navy fired 1000 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Iraqi positions. But the use of a colossal amount of Tomahawks did not decide the outcome of the local war - another 70 sorties were needed to “consolidate” the effect obtained aviation!
What, in fact, prevented the Coalition forces to continue bombarding the Iraqi positions with Tomahawks? The exorbitant price of cruise missiles - 1,5 million dollars! For comparison: the cost of one hour of flight of the F-16 fighter-bomber is 7 thousand dollars. The cost of a laser-guided bomb is from 19 thousand dollars. Aircraft combat sorties are ten times cheaper than a cruise missile, while the tactical bomber performs its “work” better, more efficiently and can strike from the “airborne alert” position.

The use of cruise missiles for normal purposes is too inefficient and wasteful: "Tomahawks" are always used only in conjunction with aviation and ground forces, as an aid to suppressing air defense and destroying critical objects in the early days of the war. Therefore, during local operations, the rocket complex “Club” loses its advantage - secrecy. What is the point of disguising a PU as a cargo container, if within a few months thousands of armored vehicles, a million soldiers and hundreds of warships are transferred to the entire world in front of the world’s eyes (this is how much force was needed to carry out the Desert Storm). It is pointless from a military point of view simply to install several sets of “Club” on a container ship, and to organize a march to the shores of a “likely enemy”.

Club-K in defense

Concern Morinformsystem-Agat specialists position their Club missile system on the world market as an ideal weapon for developing countries - simple, powerful, and most importantly, the principle of “asymmetry”, so beloved by Russian designers, is used, for example, the annual traffic volume China makes over 75 million standard containers! It is impossible to find three containers with a “surprise” in such a traffic flow.
The unprecedented secrecy of the “Club” complex allows, in theory, to equalize the chances of strong and weak armies. In practice, the situation is somewhat more complicated: a set of three "standard 40-foot containers" is not a weapon in itself, since The rocket complex "Club" is acutely faced with the problem of external targeting and communication.

20-foot container Club-K with PU for launching Uran anti-ship missiles

The NATO armies are well aware that target designation and communications are stumbling blocks to the developers of any weapons, so they take unprecedented measures to destroy enemy communications — in areas of local conflict, the sky is buzzing with electronic reconnaissance and EW aircraft. Radars, radio towers, command centers and communications centers are the first to be hit. Aviation, using special ammunition, disables electrical substations and de-energizes entire areas, depriving the enemy of the opportunity to use mobile and telephone communications.
It’s naive to rely on the GPS system - NATO experts know how to spoil the enemy’s life: during the aggression in Yugoslavia, GPS was turned off around the world. The US Army can easily do without this system - “Tomahawks” are induced using TERCOM, a system that independently scans relief; Aviation can use radio beacons and military radio navigation systems. This situation was corrected only with the appearance of Russia's own global positioning system "Glonass".

Qualitative data for the development of a combat mission of a cruise missile can only be obtained from spacecraft or reconnaissance aircraft. The second point is eliminated immediately - in a local war, air supremacy will immediately shift to the stronger side. All that remains is to receive data from the satellite, but here the question arises about the possibility of receiving information in the conditions of hard electronic suppression, and the working electronics unmasks the position of tactical missiles.

An important factor is that the turnover of standard 40-foot containers in the Third World countries (namely, they are promising customers of the Club complex) is quite limited. The above 75 million figure applies only to China with its super-industry and billion people. The USA, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, and the Eurozone countries are the main operators of “standard 40-foot containers”.

Container Terminal in New Jersey


Three containers standing among the slums of Africa immediately arouse suspicion, given that the processing and analysis of satellite images is performed by a computer that instantly notes all the nuances. 12-meter containers themselves can not appear in the right place - trailers and a truck crane are needed - such a fuss will immediately attract attention. Moreover, now any military specialist in the world knows that the “Club” complex can be in containers (in principle, any weapon can be in suspicious containers, so they should be destroyed).

And the third question - against what targets in a defensive operation can the "Club" complex be used? Against the advancing tank columns? But the loss of one or two tanks will in no way affect the offensive of the aggressor. Against enemy airfields? But they are far away, and the maximum firing range of the Caliber missiles is 300 km. Strikes at coastal landings? It's a good idea, but, even without taking into account the probability of a breakthrough by a military defense, several missiles with a 400 kg warhead will not cause serious damage.

Club-K as an anti-ship weapon

The most realistic option for the use of the missile complex. Several containers on the coast can provide control of territorial waters and pouring zones; protection of naval bases and coastal infrastructure, as well as provide cover for land-dangerous areas.
The problems are all the same - shooting at the maximum range is possible only with the use of external target designation. Under normal conditions, the detection range of surface targets is limited by a radio horizon (30 ... 40 kilometers).

But then what is the difference between the “Club” complex and the Bal-E mobile coastal missile systems that have already been adopted? The only difference is stealth. But visual secrecy is not the most reliable means. In combat conditions, the radar included unambiguously unmasks the location of the missile position, and radio electronic reconnaissance aircraft can detect the operation of the electronic equipment of the complex.

On the other hand, self-propelled Bal-E on the chassis of high traffic can be made up for anything and hide in any port hangar. Bal-E, like the Club, can use X-35 Uran anti-ship missiles. In principle, the experience of the original camouflage of missile positions has been known since the days of Vietnam, and it does not require buying a launcher for half a billion rubles.

To guess which containers Club-K will have to sink a beautiful ship

As for the idea of ​​installing containers on small ships and container ships, using them in the ocean as ersatz missile carriers to destroy the “likely enemy” Navy ships, the practice of placing weapons on merchant ships has been known since the days of the Columbus caravels. At the beginning of the article, a case was presented of the successful use of the civil vessel “Cormoran” by the Germans, using the surprise factor and the carelessness of the Sydney crew, delivered a preemptive strike and destroyed a large warship.
But ... with the development of aviation and radar facilities, the idea of ​​a "raider" disappeared into oblivion. Equipped with modern electronics, deck and base patrol aviation aircraft check in an hour hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of ocean surface - the lone raider will not be able to just disappear in the vast expanses of the sea.

Dreaming about a “shock container ship”, in one of the containers of which the Club’s “Club” puffer lurked, the following problems need to be solved: first, who will target the container ship at 200 kilometers? Secondly, a container ship that has appeared in a combat zone can be easily put on board or destroyed, as a potential threat. For the US Navy, this is a familiar event - the 1988 of the year, American sailors shot down Air Iran's passenger Airbus and did not even apologize. Do not forget, there are no means of self-defense on the container ship (and their installation immediately unmasks the civilian ship), and during Operation Storm in the Desert the US Navy and the Royal Navy of Great Britain for nothing just shot in the combat zone the boats were larger than the boat - especially the British “Lynx” helicopters, which destroyed with Sea Skua miniature rockets, many of the patrol boats and trawlers converted into minesweepers.

Conclusion

The wise Lao Tzu once said: “To send unprepared people into battle means to betray them.” I am categorically against any "asymmetric" means. In modern conditions, their use leads to even greater human losses, because no “cheap asymmetric means” can withstand well-equipped and trained armies, aircraft and the fleet. I am entirely for the development of real military systems and the construction of real military ships, and not "container ships with missiles."

As for the prospects of the original Club-K missile system (“affordable strategic weapons” in the opinion of its creators), I have no right to draw any conclusions here. If Club-K will be successful in the world market, then this will be the best refutation of all military theories, although these are already problems of the Concern Morinformsystem-Agat Open Joint-Stock Company.

Much nicer is the fact that cruise missiles of the Caliber family have a diameter of 533 mm, which means they are adapted to launch from the torpedo tubes of the Russian nuclear Shchuk. This is the real Russian combat system!

Note. The German auxiliary cruiser Cormoran was a large ship with a total displacement of 8700 tons. The fuel supply allowed him to go around the globe four times (without any atomic reactors!). Raider armament - 6 x 150 mm guns, 6 torpedo tubes, 2 seaplane, a hundred nautical mines.
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56 comments
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  1. Sakhalininsk
    Sakhalininsk 14 September 2012 09: 04
    +13
    At the right time, in the right place and with skillful hands, these installations can bring a lot of benefit to our country, and at the same time those who do not want to live at the direction of Fushington.
    1. Gym teacher
      Gym teacher 14 September 2012 13: 41
      +1
      Life has already put everything in its place.
      Despite the artificially created hysteria and screams about "affordable strategic weapons", since 2009 NOT A SINGLE foreign order for the "Club" missile system has been received

      Another bluff of the Russian military-industrial complex exists in the amount of ... two prototypes laughing After this, it just doesn't make sense to talk about "worldwide distribution of the Club"
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 14 September 2012 14: 45
        0
        Gym teacher,
        The military is not very enthusiastic about the concept, suddenly !!!.
        I think that so far they are only curious who will decide for themselves how to use them and order them.
        So it turns out that if it was presented only now, then the first information on the contracts will not be earlier than October
        1. Gym teacher
          Gym teacher 14 September 2012 14: 53
          -5
          The development of the Club complex was announced in 2009
          The model was presented at the international exhibition IMDS-2011. To no avail - no one wants to pay half a billion for a useless system with dubious characteristics
          1. carbofo
            carbofo 14 September 2012 17: 43
            +2
            Gym teacher,
            While they will test, until they work out, only then orders and not everyone openly talks about their interest.
          2. MURANO
            MURANO 14 September 2012 17: 51
            +5
            Quote: Fizruk
            - no one wants to pay

            No one wants to pay for a complex that is not accepted for service.
            Your dislike of ours is known .. But there would be more reasons.
            Quote: Fizruk
            with dubious characteristics

            Can you reveal doubts? smile
            1. lelikas
              lelikas 14 September 2012 19: 42
              +5
              Quote: MURANO
              Your dislike of ours is known ..
              - it's five .
            2. Gym teacher
              Gym teacher 15 September 2012 18: 54
              +2
              Quote: MURANO
              No one wants to pay for a complex that is not accepted for service.

              Is anyone really going to take this nonsense for half a billion into the arsenal of the Russian Army ?? belay
              Quote: MURANO
              Can you reveal doubts?

              Tomahawk. Mass - 1,5 tons. Warhead - 450 kg. Range - 1500..2500
              Club. Weight> 2 tons. Warhead 400 kg. Range - 300 km
  2. Igarr
    Igarr 14 September 2012 09: 21
    +5
    The most is to drown pirates. At a distance.
    But, expensive, bli-and-and-and-and-n.
    Where it is cheaper - Basalt or AGS-17.
    And more reliable.
    ..
    Funny little thing.
    It’s good to put it on the roof of the garage.
  3. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 14 September 2012 09: 50
    +3
    interesting fact development
  4. Civil
    Civil 14 September 2012 10: 07
    +2
    Well ... and I liked this idea so much ... and the author debunked everything
    1. Trailer
      Trailer 14 September 2012 11: 15
      +4
      Well no! The author just gave the developers the idea to mask the complex also under sheds (land), whales (sea). Only one thing bothers me - will the barn transported on KAMAZ or the whale lying on the deck of a container ship confuse the enemy? But in general, during the conflict it will be possible to launch a disinformation that our box is installed on one of the enemy civilian vessels. it will be fun!
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 14 September 2012 16: 50
        +4
        Or you can install it on barges.
        A couple of three - on the yacht Abramovich.
        We have a lot of cauldrons .. tie them in ten - you can also pile up the container.
        The latest IAC in the Caspian (Volgodonsk, Dagestan) ... a masker for container ships.
        ..
        ".. A peaceful Soviet tractor was plowing collective farm fields on the border with China. Shots were fired from the Chinese side. In response, massive artillery fire from the tractor ... the adjacent territory was burned out over a length of 20 km and a depth of 5 meters. After that, through 10 minutes the tractor went into orbit and made a massive release of planning special bombs. Bombs are jumping for the second week. "
        Do not remember such an anecdote.
        It was very popular in the USSR.
        ...
        Come back. To your own circles.
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 14 September 2012 17: 34
          +6
          Igarr,
          This is a joke about the territorial conflict on Damansky Island, in 1968, it seems.
          Then the BMZO BM-21 was used, in the amount of a regiment, and a blow was struck on the territory of the whale to remove up to 5 kilometers from the border, up to 5000 Chinese servicemen were killed.
      2. Santa Fe
        14 September 2012 17: 15
        +3
        Quote: Karavan
        The author just gave the developers the idea to mask the complex also under sheds (land), whales (sea).


        The author gave the idea to build normal warships and submarines. instead of "container ships with missiles"
        1. Trailer
          Trailer 14 September 2012 19: 58
          +1
          So be it!
  5. DUTCH
    DUTCH 14 September 2012 10: 36
    +4
    Flush, flush aircraft carriers !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. viruskvartirus
      viruskvartirus 14 September 2012 11: 12
      0
      ) it is intended to 5000 t.
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 14 September 2012 16: 57
        +1
        So, let’s empty 10 containers.
        The key word is to drown.
        10x4 = 40.
        40x5000 = 200 000.
        Enough for the eyes.
        ..
        Container terminals are gigantic structures.
        10 boxes - pah, and grind.
    2. Konrad
      Konrad 20 September 2012 19: 56
      +1
      Quote: DUTCH

      Flush, flush aircraft carriers !!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Correctly! We do not have them, let others not!
  6. viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus 14 September 2012 10: 47
    +7
    Yes, the question of target designation is key ... "" We are demonstrating for the first time the Club-K complex with the Kh-35UE cruise missile, which differs from the previous versions by the presence target design and target detection systems", - said Atkov."

    X-35UE - export version of X-35UE - unified. In 2009, a significantly revised version of the X-35 rocket was introduced, which received the designation X-35UE. A new turbofan engine, half the size, was used, the design of the air channel was changed, which allowed to increase the fuel supply. These measures led to a doubling of the maximum range of rocket firing - up to 260 km. A new combined guidance system was used in the rocket, which, in addition to previously used andinertial and active radar homing systems also satellite navigation. Modernized active passive The Gran-K radar homing head allows you to capture targets at a distance of 50 km, against 20 km from the basic version. There is a variant of a missile with a thermal imaging seeker.
    The missile received fundamentally new qualities: four points of route change, the ability to bend around islands, attack targets in narrownesses, fjords and the coastal strip.
    Monitoring the condition of the rocket, entering the flight mission and launching operations are automated, the preparation time for launching from the cold state is 60 s.

    The main advantages of the X-35 missile include: a combined trajectory with a low-altitude section of an air defense breakthrough, small dimensions and mass of the product, a relatively powerful warhead, an anti-interference combined autonomous homing system, the possibility of multiple launch rocket, and a large modernization potential.

    In the west, the missile received the designation AS-X-20 Harpoonsky.

    "If the container is in the port or is transported on a railway or automobile platform, then for targeting it is enough to have access to the wireless Internet near the container. Wi-Fi, WiMAX, LTE or even GSM or GPRS - all these communication channels are already quite widespread are widespread and allow you to communicate with any equipment from anywhere in the world. In addition, you do not need a thick communication channel to transmit target coordinates. You only need to transmit a few 32-bit numbers. " you can just call the line))
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 14 September 2012 11: 15
      +15
      viruskvartirus,
      You can just by phone))

      Alle young lady, accept the order for the white house :)
      1. dr.barhan
        dr.barhan 7 December 2012 22: 45
        +2
        Or SMS ... And it’s better to encrypt in emoticons, this is where NATO’s head is broken over decryption - either we are stupid, or we are kidding - and the containers are already empty and winged messages are already knocking in the mailbox ...
  7. carbofo
    carbofo 14 September 2012 11: 04
    +1
    The author, in principle, expresses sufficient concerns about the issue of practical value.
    But we should not forget that the containers are everywhere inordinately, and if the army will strain for each container, which can be ambushed
    -Well, there are a couple of guys with PZRK, or the more powerful.
    -Mine everything if anyone is going to see.
    -Yes and the consumption of mattress and ammunition for an empty container will be colossal, not to mention the nerves.
    If in this case the negative sides
    -Civilians can arrange housing there, it’s too bad a container for this, 30 people can be accommodated with relative comfort.
    - Any transportation of the container will cause an acute reaction of the enemy.
    in general, many people will die.
    It would be nice to work out the option of deploying an air defense system in such an option. As an autonomous launcher with external target designation ..
  8. Old skeptic
    Old skeptic 14 September 2012 11: 36
    +4
    One should not also forget about the possibility of a surprise strike on the enemy's civil communications and large settlements. Such strikes can paralyze cargo transportation and cause serious moral damage to the enemy, remember the firing of Fau missiles on London. Imagine the shelling of New York during a "desert storm" (targets are known in advance), this can lead to large political resignations and the closure or paralysis of all communications on the US coast (as a result, very serious economic damage). In the United States, "democracy" i.e. "Give the people", and therefore the population should be fully responsible for the actions of their government. Toli business autocracy or dictatorship. wink
    1. Santa Fe
      14 September 2012 13: 29
      -4
      Quote: Old Skeptic
      the possibility of a surprise strike on enemy civilian communications and large settlements. Such strikes can paralyze cargo transportation and cause serious moral damage to the enemy, remember the shelling of Fau missiles in London. Imagine shelling New York

      For such strikes, nuclear weapons are needed, not a dozen rockets with 400 kg warhead
      1. MURANO
        MURANO 14 September 2012 16: 49
        +4
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        For such strikes, nuclear weapons are needed, not a dozen rockets with 400 kg warhead

        How to say .. The sensitivity threshold in many countries is very low.
        1. Santa Fe
          14 September 2012 17: 11
          -1
          Quote: MURANO
          How to say .. The sensitivity threshold in many countries is very low


          But why use a container ship for a suicide attack?
          1. carbofo
            carbofo 14 September 2012 17: 46
            +2
            SWEET_SIXTEEN,
            Because so many missiles can be launched from it (a container ship) that you can burn tens of kilometers even with conventional warheads, but the cost seems to me too high and not weak.
            That's just if he can get where he needs to.
          2. MURANO
            MURANO 14 September 2012 17: 47
            +1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            But why use a container ship for a suicide attack?

            So I'm not talking about that. smile
            An excellent complex. All the advantages of the Tomahawk to which camouflage was added. It's good. And for many camps it will be a really weapon of deterrence-defense.
            And for us, as you rightly noted, the main thing is the ability to use it with submarines and NK. The bottom line is in missiles.
          3. Old skeptic
            Old skeptic 14 September 2012 19: 03
            +5
            Then, the container ship, with the correct organization of the operation, can be chartered, so that the crew or part of it would be their own, and the ship was a stranger. After the salvo, the crew leaves the ship in a high-speed boat and leaves there from where they will take her, and let the enemy sink their own container ship. And then he inspects all the ships that go to its ports. Can you imagine what a problem this is for shipping (constant inspections + the possibility of being sunk on the way to or from the UWB), the cost of transportation will jump several times, and if we take into account that all oil enters the UWB by sea, the effect will be pleasant (drown a couple of three supertankers and the price of oil will skyrocket).

            This is the asymmetric answer.
            Ala Ger, com Ala Ger.
            1. Konrad
              Konrad 20 September 2012 19: 59
              0
              Quote: Old Skeptic
              This is the asymmetric answer.

              You can still draw a red cross on board, let the suckers think that this is a hospital! It's all right ? Corresponds to our morality?
              1. Old skeptic
                Old skeptic 21 September 2012 23: 19
                +2
                The red cross is a bust, and raiders have always existed. The impudent Saxons empire never disdained raiding and piracy. For example: Vice Admiral Sir Francis Drake was a very famous pirate.
                And submarines on trade routes ....
                Moralism is good when an equal fights with an equal, and when pin-ss are piled on a small country, then there is no time for moralism.

                When a million Iraqis are killed, knowingly knowing that their population will not be affected, is it moral?
  9. yanus
    yanus 14 September 2012 11: 52
    +8
    The best use is to buy a bunch of such containers, paint them in the right color, add markings, postings, and cut down the door. And scatter them all over the country, let the tomahawks spend on empty containers.

    And if they bomb, then you can leave the TOP in an ambush with the electronics turned off. The container exploded, turn on the radar. For a bomber, an unexpected person. wink
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 14 September 2012 17: 36
      0
      yanus,
      http://topwar.ru/18852-raketnyy-kompleks-club-k-kritika-i-perspektivy.html#comme
      nt-id-586113 repeats.
    2. Trailer
      Trailer 14 September 2012 20: 00
      0
      The ministers of defense of one big country do not want?
  10. Very smart
    Very smart 14 September 2012 12: 17
    +4
    This missile system is a deterrent! The cost is not small, but the price is much higher. None of the aggressors wants to receive a large number of coffins with home delivery. And with the use of this system - that's exactly it. And two or three high-profile victories in the course of a local conflict will certainly lead to the desire to stop it and begin to negotiate. Nobody canceled the public outcry and anti-war sentiment. Especially with high-profile promotions.
    Two cases are recalled: the English destroyer during the war with Argentina, and, oddly enough, on September 11 with twin towers.
    In the first case, Argentina did not have enough technical capabilities to put the squeeze on. Preparations started late, they did not acquire an air-to-air refueling system and several large air-to-surface missiles. Otherwise, the alignment would have changed a lot. And Marusya (M.T.) would not have survived the showdown with her democrats at numerous funerals.
    Well, September 11th is a clear victory for the Islamists. 2-0 in one wicket.
    So with the Club system. Rarely but aptly. And beware of everything, knowing that a potential enemy has such weapons. Especially Western crap .... democracies spreading this thing around the world!
  11. understudy
    understudy 14 September 2012 13: 04
    -1
    Quote: Very smart
    Especially Western crap .... democracies spreading this thing around the world!

    And then it suddenly turns out that several containers were "forgotten" in railway dead ends in Russia during the transfer of Amerov's property through Ulyanovsk. Can this be? Quite. If even in the USSR, spy reconnaissance equipment traveled across the country. However, the "return" also has the right to life. feel
    1. Very smart
      Very smart 15 September 2012 19: 21
      +1
      Dubbler
      You can forget anything, anywhere. There are plenty of goats and bunglers everywhere. The sale of such systems to NATO countries is not envisaged. As for the return, the "forgotten" in Central Park, a special small-sized knapsack ammunition has the right to exist in the same way.
      And the Clubs bought for decent money will be taken care of by buyers as the apple of an eye, as the last hope for sovereignty.
  12. iwanniegrozny
    iwanniegrozny 14 September 2012 14: 04
    +2
    In the 1960s. in the USA and the USSR, projects were being worked out to build "hidden" missile carriers with nuclear missiles on board.
    http://www.atrinaflot.narod.ru/81_publications/scorpion.htm

    It’s good that they weren’t built
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 14 September 2012 17: 38
      +1
      iwanniegrozny,
      The Americans also experimented with launching ballistic missiles from a military transport aircraft.
      And quite successfully, but it didn’t find application, but who knows, maybe the topic was frozen for a look, because the aircraft’s additional equipment is minimal.

      You can’t know if the possibility of a quick alteration of civilian vessels for carriers is inherent.
      It is not necessary that the mines be installed, it is enough that the ship's design has such an opportunity, and you can redo it in a few days.
      I cut out a dozen cabins and put TPK with mortar launch rockets and voila.
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 14 September 2012 20: 14
        -1
        Ballistics from a transport plane?
        What kind of ballista ... are these?
        Although .. without getting down from the couch .. I can offer - a counter-anti-launch .. ballistic missiles ... from an aircraft carrier.
        The corps will be intact ... fly to the airfield.
        Where they will write it off ... if it remains, what to write off.
        ..
        Well, such an idea ... affigeto !!!!
        Read ... how?
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 15 September 2012 23: 31
          0
          Igarr,
          http://www.popmech.ru/article/8922-strategicheskoe-oruzhie-buduschego/
          http://forums.airbase.ru/2011/01/t78531--ballisticheskie-rakety-vozdushnogo-zapu
          ska.html
          Less emotions, look and read, critics divorced!
  13. Per se.
    Per se. 14 September 2012 20: 12
    +1
    An interesting article, I personally liked it, the author is a plus. What would you like to add on the topic, or, as Boris Grebenshchikov used to sing, "Sitting on a beautiful hill, I look from it and, that's what I see ...". Speaking about containers, we must remember that there are three of them in the complex (the launch module itself with missiles, the control module, the power supply and auxiliary systems module). The photo of the transport with the upper deck lined with containers in several rows is impressive, but the containers with the "Club" modules must be nearby, they must be accessible, at least the starting container must be the top one. Containers buried in the lower rows are useless, as well as scattered across the deck. I share here the author's doubts about the combat effectiveness of this transport method of camouflage. But, nevertheless, the main and indisputable plus of the complex and the idea itself is MODULARITY, in which, if necessary, you can make a warship from any civilian ship. No, not disguising himself and being afraid of inspections, but under the St. Andrew's flag, with a combat team, with a ship's hull, repainted in a "ball" color. Here my views differ from the author - mobilized ships have not become obsolete. An auxiliary cruiser with modular weapons (modules like "Club", "Pantsir", an armed team and a pair of KA-52s on board) can also drive the same pirates in the Gulf of Aden. The specialization of such converted vessels can be different, both patrol, anti-submarine or reconnaissance. Dual-use ships helped Russia on the Black Sea after the Crimean War, and can help now. We have to be realistic, we cannot build more frigates, destroyers, cruisers and aircraft carriers than the United States, and there is nothing to it, to have auxiliary and converted ships is not a sign of weakness, but a reasonable addition to the ships that are currently being designed and under construction.
    1. beard999
      beard999 14 September 2012 21: 32
      +7
      Quote: Per se.
      Speaking about containers, we must remember that they are in the THREE complex

      And where did you get that container in the "THREE" complex? Repeat for the author of the article? So the author himself, judging by what was written in the article, understands the topic very poorly ...
      We go to the developer's site http://www.concern-agat.ru/products/defense-products/81-concern-agat/189-club-k. There, firstly, the following is literally said: “The Club-K complex is housed in a standard 40-foot sea container.” It is clear that the "container" is named in the singular, and it includes a functionally complete complex. Secondly, what this complex (ie container) consists of is further described - “Functionally, the Club-K complex consists of a Universal Launch Module (USM), a Combat Command Module (MOBU) and a Power Supply and Life Support Module (MEP)” . It is unclear who invented the bike, that the "module" is a separate container? Not a single official source speaks of “three” containers. At the same time, the manufacturer’s website further explicitly states: “MOBU and MEPH can be structurally designed and manufactured as separate standard sea containers”. The key word - “CAN” be designed and manufactured in the form of SEPARATE standard sea containers. That is, at the moment, they are executed differently, namely, all functional modules are in the same container:
      МоБУ http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5306/94845085.74/0_67f7b_a59f73fd_orig
      МЭЖ - http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5307/94845085.74/0_67f7c_48ad2983_orig
      Well, where is the trigger and so it’s quite obvious ...
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 14 September 2012 22: 56
        +2
        I regret that I did not double-check, although I had previously seen a commercial, they confused the cables and connectors to the container in the photo. If there is only one container, this undoubtedly simplifies the combat use, but, in any case, the container should not be blocked during transportation with others. I repeat, the idea is good, there is no doubt that it can be used.
        1. Santa Fe
          15 September 2012 00: 12
          -1
          Quote: Per se.
          If there is only one container, this undoubtedly simplifies combat use.

          Do you think that the control module (pictured) can be placed in one container with the launcher?
          Quote: beard999
          Not a single official source speaks of “three” containers

          Of course, because it immediately spoils the impression of the system
          Quote: Per se.
          No, not disguising himself and being afraid of inspections, but under the St. Andrew's flag, with a combat team, with a ship's hull, repainted in "ball" color

          Send people to slaughter?
          Quote: Per se.
          An auxiliary cruiser with modular weapons (modules of the "Club" type) can also drive the same pirates in the Gulf of Aden.

          Will it come out a little expensive? It’s easier to lift a helicopter and to solve a boat with a machine gun
          Quote: beard999
          CAN ... That is, at the moment, they are executed differently, namely, all functional modules are in one container:

          Do not make people laugh, no one will sit in the launcher.
          Quote: beard999
          “CAN” be designed and manufactured as SEPARATE standard sea containers

          This phrase indicates that the control module and electrical equipment can also be made up under the container. At the inset they stood in a separate pavilion
          Quote: Per se.
          to have auxiliary and converted ships is not a sign of weakness, but a reasonable addition to the ships that are being designed and under construction

          Sailors will beat you
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 15 September 2012 01: 17
            +2
            SWEET_SIXTEEN,
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Sailors will beat you

            Yes, okay, SWEET SIXTEEN, don't exaggerate. I did not suggest to shoot at pirates with rockets, but if the St. Andrew's flag is raised on the ship, equipping the ship with weapons, the containers with the "Club" will not be superfluous. Pirate boat, who argues, it is better to catch up and destroy from a helicopter, which can be based on an auxiliary ship. Taking phrases out of context can be fun. Naturally, a combat ship is better than an auxiliary one, but what is the current state of the fleet, and what to do if the ships of the ocean zone have not been built for so many years, but they rotted and sold for scrap. It is better to go on an armed "steamer", to gain experience, to train crews, than to sit at the pier and wait while our new nuclear destroyers are designed and built. Fools can also "send people to slaughter" on the latest warships, without experience and training - there is no need for war, so that losses occur in the form of the same fires.
            1. Santa Fe
              15 September 2012 02: 36
              -2
              Quote: Per se.
              Naturally, a warship is better than an auxiliary one, but in what state is the fleet now, and what if the ships of the ocean zone have not been built for so many years

              So far, the Russian Navy has the opportunity to allocate two ships a year for patrolling in the Horn of Africa.
              The situation is slowly (slowly) going to incrimination - yesterday they laid down a new frigate, etc. 11356
              Quote: Per se.
              but in what condition is the fleet now, and what to do if the ships of the ocean zone

              The problem is not so much the number of ships, but the lack of funds for combat training and maintenance. here the container ship will not solve the problem
              Quote: Per se.
              Fools can also "send people to slaughter" on the latest warships, without experience and training - there is no need for war, so that losses occur in the form of the same fires.

              Without a doubt. The human factor is key in any situation.
              But voluntarily sending people to slaughter is overly
          2. beard999
            beard999 15 September 2012 15: 53
            +2
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Of course, because it immediately spoils the impression of the system

            Did I understand you correctly, do you want to say that the complex for any in any configuration consists of three containers, and the developers hide this? So no? Can you provide supporting links or is it your personal speculation?
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Do not make people laugh, no one will sit in the launcher

            In fact, it is you who are ridiculous with such naive statements. The Club-M BKRO has all three members of the SPU calculation (the SPU commander is a specialist in a missile weapon control system, a radio systems maintenance specialist and the driver is located inside the machine during launches. The same for Club-K is the SPU commander and OPC specialist are located in MoBU.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            This phrase indicates that the control module and electrical equipment can also be made up under the container.

            Well, that’s what I wrote about that MAY, and now all three modules are executed in a single container.
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            At the inset they stood in a separate pavilion

            All modules are inside the same container:
            http://s019.radikal.ru/i630/1209/01/2520548116f9.jpg
            http://s58.radikal.ru/i162/1209/f2/f78fbf7cc56e.jpg
            http://s008.radikal.ru/i303/1209/8d/bf8ea357427c.jpg
            Moreover, at TVM-2012 I went to the representative of the concern and directly asked where the modules are in the container - they literally poked me with my finger - on the right is the MBU, on the left is the MEP, in front of them is the trigger. This is done so that even one container would be a functional combat unit. But in case of group use of the complex, in each container all three modules are not needed and they CAN (!!!) be executed as separate 20 and 40 foot containers. It depends on the customer.
            What kind of exhibition are you talking about? In which “separate pavilion” did you see the modules? There is a photo?
            1. carbofo
              carbofo 15 September 2012 23: 39
              +1
              beard999,
              It seems to me that TPK missiles are longer than 20 feet long? or I'm wrong.
              Actually, even on a warship, you can put a couple of launchers and a command module in the stern, which will greatly increase the attacking capabilities of the ship, and after use, the launcher can be dropped into the sea.
              1. beard999
                beard999 16 September 2012 15: 33
                0
                Quote: carbofo
                It seems to me that TPK missiles are longer than 20 feet long? or I'm wrong.
                Actually, even on a warship, you can put a couple of launchers and a command module in the stern

                20 foot containers are used only for the modernized anti-ship missiles 3M-24 (aviation designation - X-35UE) from the Bal-U coastal complexes http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/VVT/Uran_CLUB-K.html. The use of 3M-54K / KE and 3M-14K / KE missiles of the Caliber / Club complex in 20 foot containers is really not possible.
                The most obvious (and probably the most easily implemented) method of combat use of a 20-foot variant of a container complex with anti-ship missiles of the 3M-24 type is to use them as part of the coastal anti-ship missiles of the “Ball” and “Caliber-M” (“Club-M”) types, which allows you to quickly increase their ammunition to the required level, in threatening directions. These complexes have their own information tools - “Harpoon-Ball”, “Mineral-M”, “Monolith-B”. For example, active-passive Mineral-M and Monolit-B radar in the export version allow surface targets to be detected in active mode at a distance of up to 250 km, and in passive up to 450 km. At the same time, the Monolith-B RLC (developed by the Morinformsystem-Agat concern) can interface with any Russian coastal anti-aircraft missile system - Bal, Caliber, Bastion.
                As for the strengthening of warships, by installing containers with anti-ship missiles, I can not say anything. I have not met official information about such use. As for the installation of 20 foot containers on civilian vessels (or auxiliary ships of the Navy), I see only two possibilities for such use of anti-ship missiles. This is either an action in their territorial waters and receiving an external control center, again from the above-mentioned coastal radar systems, or campaigns in escort of warships having the appropriate information systems and CMS, capable of issuing an external control system to container complexes.
                1. carbofo
                  carbofo 17 September 2012 16: 27
                  0
                  beard999,
                  For some reason, it seems to me that the launcher is able to integrate into ship target designation systems. Therefore, the ability to retrofit ships with missiles makes sense.
  14. Igarr
    Igarr 14 September 2012 20: 14
    0
    Ballistics from a transport plane?
    What kind of ballista ... are these?
    Although .. without getting down from the couch .. I can offer - a counter-anti-launch .. ballistic missiles ... from an aircraft carrier.
    The corps will be intact ... fly to the airfield.
    Where they will write it off ... if it remains, what to write off.
    ..
    Well, such an idea ... affigeto !!!!
    Read ... how?
  15. not good
    not good 15 September 2012 00: 16
    +3
    In the late 80s and early 90s, a universal combat platform was miscalculated. For example, an ekranoplane on which, depending on the combat mission, on the shore, a combat module-container was installed, in the shock version with anti-ship missiles, in the version of PLO or minesweeper with the corresponding equipment or without all in the landing version. The idea was promising, but I didn’t go, why I don’t know, the salary did not allow me to ask questions. But if there would be CLUB-like modules of PLO, air defense and other than non-modular ship. in the future.
  16. sergey261180
    sergey261180 15 September 2012 17: 18
    +1
    A good thing would be in the Yugoslav war of 1999. It could hit stationary objects in Europe: nuclear power plants, chemical plants, oil storage facilities, arsenals. Fuck knows how then the war would go. The range is really not enough. They did not reach the tomahawk.
    1. Konrad
      Konrad 20 September 2012 20: 06
      0
      Quote: sergey261180

      A good thing would be in the Yugoslav war

      Why should there be little things, stuff containers with plastid and anthrax, and send them all over Europe! I wish you were happy!
  17. Zomanus
    Zomanus 16 September 2012 05: 45
    +2
    The article is generally not bad. It is clear that the club has a lot of misunderstandings with use. It is clear that it should be applied in the echelon. By the way, it would also be nice to make the Shell under the container format. This is essentially a separate module. And then a vessel with such containers will perform a wider range of tasks.
  18. Forward
    Forward 16 September 2012 21: 04
    +2
    The necessary thing! Especially in the partisan struggle. request
  19. Sober
    Sober 17 September 2012 22: 52
    +1
    Well, they are somehow strange about tracking containers said! when tons of heroin pass, this is the norm .. and missiles will not pass! it’s just that no one will watch each container, they will replace 1 piece during loading, and go 1000 on the ship, go look for it! and if it’s winged with nuclear stuffing, then I'm sorry .. it will be bad when you call someone at the port! Yes, and 300km is a normal distance. Naval exercises are 200km away from them, there is a trade route, they can get banged, no one expects! In short, you can apply! when they first heard about Club K, the Americans were very worried and banned trade in this type of weapon .. why would it be if it is ineffective?
  20. borisst64
    borisst64 24 September 2012 15: 30
    +1
    All comments emphasize system stealth. I see an advantage in another. Each similar system has special chargers, or a truck crane plus special vehicles for transportation. A container has a size under sea, river, air, railway and auto transport. In every city with a railway station there is also a container station, there are no talks about ports. Mobility is fantastic !!
  21. Mister X
    Mister X 7 October 2012 18: 32
    +1
    Thanks to the author for an interesting article!

    As if developing the topic, I want to remind you that the Americans in the framework of the program "Advanced Combat Systems" created and tested the tactical missile system NLOS-LS with a range of up to 40 km.

    These are of course products of different "weight categories", but the common features are still visible.
  22. wizarden
    wizarden April 14 2014 13: 17
    0
    This complex is positioned primarily for export to the "banana republics" as a deterrent. What worries me is that these boxes fall into the wrong hands. You can really track them down and it is not clear whose port they will arrive, changing the second or third owner.
  23. Andrew3000
    Andrew3000 11 December 2014 16: 12
    0
    I’ll put this in my dacha
  24. Arkady Kharitonov
    Arkady Kharitonov 8 February 2018 14: 28
    0
    and if you put the gauges with nuclear charges in a container version in Cuba, just in case
  25. musorg
    musorg 31 October 2019 15: 38
    0
    So he can stand on pr.22160?