Military Review

Project "Cedar". Waiting for a promising missile system

58

In the interests of the strategic missile forces, several research and development work is currently being carried out or planned at once to modernize existing complexes or create new ones. This year it was announced about the upcoming development of the project with the cipher "Cedar". A missile of this type will enter service by the end of the decade, but flight tests have already been reported.


Future news


The first statements that can be linked to the Kedr project were made in December last year. Then the commander of the Strategic Missile Forces, Colonel-General Sergei Karakaev, said that in the short and medium term, the development of new missile systems would begin. At the same time, the main goals of such works were announced, although no details were given. In addition, specific names and indexes were not announced.

On March 1, the TASS agency, referring to its source, announced the start of research and development with the code "Kedr", aimed at creating a new generation strategic missile system. The work involves unnamed enterprises of the military-industrial complex. No details were given due to the fact that the project was at an early stage - “it will be possible to speak substantively” only after the transition of R&D to R&D.


In early April, TASS published new information about the plans for the "Cedar". It was argued that this project is included in the current State Armaments Program, calculated until 2027. The transition to the stage of development work is planned for 2023-24. All work on the project, including flight tests, will be completed by the end of the decade. At the turn of the twenties and thirties, the first "Cedars" will enter the troops. The developer of the project remains unknown, but TASS tried to get a comment from the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering.

In April, for the first time, some technical details of the project were revealed. According to a TASS source, the Kedr complex will receive a solid-propellant rocket. It is planned to be used in silo and mobile launchers. Thanks to this, the new product will be able to replace the current Yars ICBMs. However, this information has not received official confirmation.

Trials and confusion


The next time the project "Kedr" hit the pages of the press at the end of June. He was remembered in connection with the news on flight tests of a promising rocket. However, it quickly became clear that the latest news had nothing to do with current research and development.

Project "Cedar". Waiting for a promising missile system

TASS reported on flight tests of an unknown type of missile at the end of June. According to his source, in the middle of the month at the Plesetsk test site, the launch of the "newest intercontinental ballistic missile" developed at MIT took place. The event was successful. Details of these trials were not reported. The organization-developer and the Ministry of Defense did not comment on the news.

In a note about the launch, TASS recalled previous news on the topic of R&D "Cedar" - without indicating any connection between this project and the latest tests. However, soon in the specialized media, Russian-speaking and foreign, publications appeared in which the prototype for recent tests was identified with the Kedr ICBM. However, some of these publications have an ambiguous reputation, which explains the appearance of such "sensations".

Obviously, the Kedr missile system could not be tested in June. Development work on this product will begin no earlier than 2023, and, therefore, flight tests will start only in the second half of the decade. Testing new ideas and solutions for the Kedr research and development project using an experimental rocket of the existing model is also unlikely.


Also, in the wake of the TASS report, other versions appeared. More authoritative publications and blogs suggested that a missile of one of the modernized types could pass the tests. Mentioned ROC with codes "Osina-RV" and "Sirena-M". However, these versions have not received official confirmation.

At the time,


Thus, reports of the recent start of flight tests of the "Kedr" product were premature and ahead of the schedule by about half a decade. Nevertheless, a promising project has already been launched. In the coming years, it will go through a research stage, and no later than 2024, a full-fledged development is expected to start, followed by the manufacture and testing of prototype rockets.

The Kedr project is being carried out with an eye to the medium and long term, and therefore the Strategic Missile Forces and industry have the opportunity not to rush things. The timing of the project and the adoption of missiles into service is determined taking into account the capabilities of the industry, as well as the current and future needs of the troops. In other words, "Kedr" will go into series production and enter the troops in due time - at the time when the Strategic Missile Forces will need it.


Currently, the Russian Strategic Missile Forces operate several types of solid-propellant ICBMs. The oldest is the RT-2PM Topol product, which was put into service at the end of the eighties. Recently, the domestic press reported that in 2024 the last complexes of this type will be removed from service due to the development of a resource and replacement with modern models.

In 2000, the modernized "Topol-M" complex in a mine design entered service. The mobile version began to enter the troops later. According to known data, at the beginning of the tenth years, the army stopped purchasing Topol-M ICBMs and launched full-scale production of newer RS-24 Yars products for mine and mobile complexes. Deliveries of Yars are still ongoing, and now these missiles are one of the main weapons of the Strategic Missile Forces.

It is easy to calculate that by 2030 the age of the newest Topol-M missiles and the oldest Yarsov will reach the level of 20 years. In this regard, measures will be needed to extend the resource or complete replacement of obsolete products. And it is during this period, as reported, that the promising complex "Kedr" of the same class will be ready for the series.


Accordingly, at the beginning of the next decade, the Strategic Missile Forces will be able to completely abandon the outdated Topol-M and begin the process of replacing not the newest Yars. As a result of these measures, the newest Kedr will become the main light missile in the troops. It will have advantages, at least in the form of novelty and the ability to remain in service for the next several decades.

In addition, by the time the "Cedar" appears, the R & D work on the "Sarmat" theme will be completed. Thanks to this, new ICBMs of a heavy class, capable of carrying conventional warheads and hypersonic gliding blocks, will begin to arrive in the Strategic Missile Forces. As a result, over the next 15-20 years, a full-fledged and full-scale rearmament of the missile forces with modern models for that period will be carried out.

Planned development


News of the start of work on a promising strategic missile naturally attracted attention and even caused some excitement, both in our country and abroad. In addition, they triggered the emergence of messages that could only be expected in a few years. It should be noted and numerous attempts to predict what the new missile system will be.

What will be the results of the current R&D "Kedr" and the subsequent R&D is not yet known. At the same time, it is clear that this project is being worked out with an eye to the distant future - the new type of missile systems will have to serve since the thirties and, at least, until the middle of the century. This imposes special requirements on the project and poses complex tasks for its developers, which take a lot of time to solve. But such efforts and expectations will fully justify themselves, and the planned development of the Strategic Missile Forces will continue.
Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. andr327
    andr327 28 October 2021 06: 22
    +2
    The development of the Strategic Missile Forces technology is good. "Cedar" is a distant future. but from what sources did the author slow down Sarmat
    by the time of the appearance of "Cedar" will be completed R&D on the topic "Sarmat"
    As previously reported, Sarmat was already at the stage of flight tests.
  2. KCA
    KCA 28 October 2021 07: 07
    +3
    So maybe Yars-S was launched, about which the author, for some reason, did not mention
  3. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 28 October 2021 07: 10
    -12
    It should be noted and numerous attempts to predict what the new missile system will be.

    I do not know what will be new in Cedar, but the cut should be impressive, and in order not to be unfounded, I cite the facts (directly from the article):
    In 2000, the modernized "Topol-M" complex in a mine design entered service. The mobile version began to enter the troops later. According to known data early tenths army stopped purchasing ICBMs "Topol-M" and launched a full-scale production of newer RS-24 Yars products for mine and mobile complexes. Deliveries of Yars are still ongoing, and now these missiles are one of the main weapons of the Strategic Missile Forces.

    Thus, in Russia in 2000, they put into service the Topol, ten years later it turns out that the Topol no longer corresponds to the purpose and they start producing the Yars ... It takes a little more than ten years and it turns out. that all these "Topol" and "Yars" were "fooled". The real, really newest, effective in operation and destruction of targets - "Cedar" ... Here even the name breathes with warmth: pine nuts (warheads), pine cones (rocket), etc.
    And, as it would seem:
    The party is surrounded by care
    They are moving towards new heights (Strategic Missile Forces).
    Yes, this is what confuses me against the backdrop of urgent novelty and rampant modernization:
    The service life of the UR-100UTTKh (SS-19 Stiletto according to NATO classification) intercontinental ballistic missiles has been extended until at least 2023. This type has become a long-lived missile - it has been on alert for over 35 years.
    - By order of the Ministry of Defense, we annually extend the service life of missiles. These works are also planned for 2022, - Alexey Leonov, Director General of NPO Mashinostroyenia, told RIA Novosti. He noted that the task of such a long-term use of ICBMs while maintaining their combat and technical characteristics was solved for the first time in the world.
    The factory service life of "Stiletto" is 10 years. These missiles were produced from 1979 to 1985.

    I just want to end the message with the well-known phrase of Comrade Sukhov:

    But such efforts and expectations will fully justify themselves, and the planned development of the Strategic Missile Forces will continue.

    hi
    1. fiv
      fiv 28 October 2021 07: 41
      +4
      UR-100UTTKh liquid-propellant rocket, Topol and Yars - light solid-propellant. That is, completely different machines with completely different operating conditions. They have the same cross-section only - they are round in this projection.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 28 October 2021 08: 17
        -2
        Quote: fiv
        UR-100UTTKh liquid-propellant rocket, Topol and Yars - light solid-propellant.

        Thank you, of course, for the educational work, but if in varieties of potatoes types of missiles I understand at the level of unclassified sources of information, then in peel types of propellant and purpose is known from the sources "For Official Use" and "Secret".
        This is in a principled position with regard to missile systems for the Strategic Missile Forces. Isn't it too wasteful to change women like gloves types of missiles that, even in the long term, have not developed a resource, every ten years? Don't feel sorry for the money? Or is it a shame to ask the "inventors" why suddenly "good thoughts come after" ten years of operation?
        1. fiv
          fiv 28 October 2021 10: 28
          -2
          "then in the skin the types of propellants and the purpose are known from the sources" For internal use "and" Secret "." And the information about what knowledge you received from secret documents is also secret. belay It didn't turn out well.
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 28 October 2021 12: 13
            -3
            Quote: fiv
            And the information about what knowledge you received from secret documents is also secret. It didn't turn out well.

            Everything is fine, everything is in accordance with the terms of the nondisclosure subscription. Here's what I will show and tell you, my close colleagues (because they are close ones), please - everything in order:


            Today, out of all the joy, two are left - two joys of waiting:
            1. The deputies froze payments of compensation for the savings of Russians again - until 2025;
            (it would be a hell of a thing with them, but it's a shame to donate crumbs in the amount of 15 rubles to muzzle speculators - he himself had views on them and spent his health ...)
            2. As you know, the State Duma now has a bill №1258305-7 "On the suspension of the second part of Article 43 ...", in other words - a bill to increase the reduction coefficient for calculating military pensions from 73,68% to 74% ...
            (In simple words, this can be expressed with a phrase from Boris Grebenshchikov's song "They were deceived", but in a complex one it sounds like: "It's not a dermal purlo worthy of a pension, calculated from 100% of earnings - not deputies, tea ..."
            ==========
            But, you will still be fully satiated with all the promises, projects, plans, developments, innovations, manipulations and other actions of the state prestigious ...
        2. Yaroslav Zhigulin
          Yaroslav Zhigulin 28 October 2021 10: 42
          0
          Well, as if yars is the same poplar m only completely on domestic components.
        3. Alex777
          Alex777 28 October 2021 16: 16
          -4
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Or is it a shame to ask the "inventors" why suddenly "good thoughts come after" ten years of operation?

          Those who need to know exactly why the replacement took place.
          An informed lieutenant general told me that the interception of Poplar is a solvable task for the US missile defense.
          Of course, I'm not going to give you details here.
          Therefore, and not because of your nonsense about kickbacks, there was a replacement for new types of BR.
          When they were able to get rid of external management (and EBNa), then they began to change.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 28 October 2021 10: 29
        -2
        Quote: fiv
        They have the same cross-section only - they are round in this projection.

        How long? Have you not noticed that now there is a craving for "quadraticism" in the world ?! TPK! And the next stage of "quadratism" is the appearance of "square" missiles! It seems that development is already underway! For example, in Russia, the "first swallow" is the Kh-59MK2 RVP ...

        wink
        1. ja-ja-vw
          ja-ja-vw 28 October 2021 12: 35
          +2
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Haven't you noticed that now there is a craving for "quadraticism" in the world?

          this, that would not roll on the deck or the airfield!
          ICBMs will definitely not be square (triangular too), neither solid-fuel nor liquid.
          any angle is a stress concentrator, and even for solid propellants to ensure normal combustion, without breaking off pieces in a square profile, is an unsolved problem, to create any parasitic volume, which is stupid
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 28 October 2021 20: 26
            +1
            Quote: ja-ja-vw
            this, that would not roll on the deck or the airfield!

            Once again I am convinced. How stupid the "people" on the VO! fool It has become very difficult to "introduce" such "components" as a joke, sarcasm, irony into comments on VO ...! request
            1. ja-ja-vw
              ja-ja-vw 28 October 2021 21: 03
              -1
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Once again I am convinced. How stupid the "people" on the VO!

              I agree 100%. Only one who is completely stupefied in writing for a topvar will perceive this
              Quote: ja-ja-vw
              this, that would not roll on the deck or the airfield!

              as a serious statement
              hi
              1.square section - worse in aerodynamics, but for internal compartments it compensates for the lost (due to length) useful volume

              optimized for placement in the internal bays of aircraft carriers

              2.the idea was to use the arrangement of the dipoles in the orthogonal plane (the formation of the zeros of the electric field)


              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              to "introduce" such "components" as a joke, sarcasm, irony into comments ..

              I will take into account your wishes fool
              shl. I have never met any information that "round rockets" would roll on the deck or the gdp, because
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 28 October 2021 21: 26
                0
                I was not at all interested in how you roll "round" or "square" on the deck or airfield! My comment was just a response to those "minusists" who began to zealously minus my joke about the "perspective of square configurations"!
                I understood what your trouble is. You are too serious. A clever face is not yet a sign of intelligence, gentlemen. All nonsense on Earth is done with this facial expression. You smile, gentlemen. Smile!(Quotes from Munchausen / Jankowski ...) hi
                1. ja-ja-vw
                  ja-ja-vw 28 October 2021 22: 10
                  -3
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  My comment was just a response to those "minusists" who began to zealously minus my joke about the "perspective of square configurations"!

                  I didn’t minus! why should I answer?
                  not logical.
                  I only minus three (I already identified one as an animal, oh, what amazing verses he writes to me in a personal, you will read it) sexual status.
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  I understood what your trouble is

                  it’s not so bad, especially since my face is stupid.
                  shl. There was a line in the script: “Serious face", but Oleg Yankovsky made a reservation when dubbing and said: "Smart face."
                  1. Nikolaevich I
                    Nikolaevich I 28 October 2021 22: 15
                    0
                    Quote: ja-ja-vw
                    I didn’t minus! why should I answer?

                    Well, it happened so! Well, I accidentally turned up your comment "under the key"! request
                    1. ja-ja-vw
                      ja-ja-vw 28 October 2021 23: 52
                      -2
                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      Well, yours turned up inadvertently

                      - Gentlemen! Are you going to beat us?
                      - And how!

                      Gentlemen, just don't kick with your feet! I have fragile health and I am good (even if only in my soul)
          2. Maikcg
            Maikcg 1 November 2021 22: 54
            0
            this, that would not roll on the deck or the airfield!

            The old army wisdom says: "round - drag, square - roll"
      3. ja-ja-vw
        ja-ja-vw 28 October 2021 12: 32
        -1
        Quote: fiv
        UR-100UTTKh liquid-propellant rocket, Topol and Yars - light solid-propellant. That is, completely different cars

        goals and objectives of these missiles WHAT? Also "different"?
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Today, out of all the joy, two are left - two joys of waiting:

        You do not follow the news!
        25.10.21/XNUMX/XNUMX Putin conferred Russian citizenship Uruguayan actress and singer Natalia Oreiro and her offspring
        http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/0001202110250016?index=1&rangeSize=1
        Adopt the following persons into Russian citizenship: <...> Oreiro Iglesias Natalia Marisa, born on May 19, 1977 in Uruguay, with son Molio Oreiro Merlin Atahualpa, born January 26, 2012 in Argentina


        recourse
    2. Moore
      Moore 28 October 2021 08: 53
      +9
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Thus, in Russia, in 2000, they put into service the Topol, ten years later it turns out that the Topol no longer corresponds to its purpose and they start producing the Yars ... It takes a little more than ten years and it turns out. that all these "Topol" and "Yars" were "fufile". The real, really new, effective in operation and destruction of targets - "Kedr" ...

      1. "Topol-M" (not "Topol") is the brainchild of the 90s, when MIT was required to create a product that would be completely enclosed in the production facilities of the Russian Federation. Well, partly Belarus, if we also take the PGRK. It was developed, in fact, for the PGRK and, in accordance with the current START-1 treaty, carried one warhead. People began to stick into the Topol-M mines out of despair and lack of money.
      2.In 2009, after the end of START-1, it became possible to stick several warheads on Topol-M, which was done under the Yars index. The structural differences between the first and the second are minimal - the designer and the production base are the same.
      3. "Kedr" will replace "Yars" in due time - calmly and evolutionarily, as the "Poplar" came in due time (development began in the late 70s with the presence of "Pioneer" - that's the budget saws, right?) change to the same "Pioneer".
      Conclusion: you shouldn't immediately shout "Help, sawmakers rob!". Replacing one DBK with another is a completely natural process, especially if you consider that the industry gives only 10 years of a warranty period of operation - then there are tricks of white and black magic with the extension of terms.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 28 October 2021 09: 07
        -7
        Quote: Moore
        Conclusion: not worth it immediately shout "Help, sawmakers rob!"

        Not worth it? laughing It's all just useless! Air shake and CPU load ...
        Quote: Moore
        Replacing one DBK with another is a completely natural process.

        Who would doubt and welcome this?
        Quote: Moore
        that the industry gives only a 10-year warranty period

        For the whole complex, mechanics, transport base, chassis, electronic filling, or for a rocket?
        We have household TVs and refrigerators for 25 years, but what about the launchers and transport-loaders? Two times going to the exercises, a couple of launches and scrapping?
        Something, but we have learned from the modernization process - Soviet technology of the 70s at the level of world models, and some old (modernized) models "make" modern ones "at once":

        If anything, sorry for the quality of the shooting. Technologies and principles of disclosing species from the Moon were used ...
        laughing
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 28 October 2021 13: 30
          0
          Quote: ROSS 42
          For the whole complex, mechanics, transport base, chassis, electronic filling, or for a rocket?
          The fuel definitely needs to be changed. Previously, there were also gyroscopes, but it seems that this issue has been resolved.
        2. Moore
          Moore 28 October 2021 14: 50
          +2
          For the whole complex, mechanics, transport base, chassis, electronic filling, or for a rocket?
          We have household TVs and refrigerators for 25 years, and what about the starting and transport-charging

          For the whole complex. Do you think someone will let you leave the system on alert without warranty service, such as your refrigerator? No, but what? It works ...
          Well, "Topol" stood for about 25 years on duty with constantly extended periods - is that from a good life or what?
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 28 October 2021 16: 32
            0
            "Topol-M" (not "Topol") is the brainchild of the 90s, when MIT was required to create a product that would be completely enclosed in the production facilities of the Russian Federation. Well, partly Belarus, if we also take the PGRK. It was developed, in fact, for the PGRK and, in accordance with the current START-1 treaty, carried one warhead. They began to stick into the Topol-M mines out of despair and lack of money.

            All of you write correctly. hi
            Besides despair and lack of money, there were other problems.
            I hope there will be no repetition of such a time during my lifetime.
        3. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 28 October 2021 16: 50
          0
          Quote: ROSS 42
          sorry for the quality of the shooting.

          Yu.V. what does computer graphics have to do with "shooting" !? lol
          These are "cartoons" for the gullible and those who think at the level of "tanks", as well as shooters and jump ropes ... yes
          If the Penguin made radar contact (not even visual!), Then all hope is on the electronic warfare and Mikhail Archangel onboard complex ...
          This will be confirmed by any pioneer from aviation or air defense who is versed in "sausage scraps". bully
          AHA.
      2. Aag
        Aag 28 October 2021 12: 35
        +1
        Quote: Moore
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Thus, in Russia, in 2000, they put into service the Topol, ten years later it turns out that the Topol no longer corresponds to its purpose and they start producing the Yars ... It takes a little more than ten years and it turns out. that all these "Topol" and "Yars" were "fufile". The real, really new, effective in operation and destruction of targets - "Kedr" ...

        1. "Topol-M" (not "Topol") is the brainchild of the 90s, when MIT was required to create a product that would be completely enclosed in the production facilities of the Russian Federation. Well, partly Belarus, if we also take the PGRK. It was developed, in fact, for the PGRK and, in accordance with the current START-1 treaty, carried one warhead. People began to stick into the Topol-M mines out of despair and lack of money.
        2.In 2009, after the end of START-1, it became possible to stick several warheads on Topol-M, which was done under the Yars index. The structural differences between the first and the second are minimal - the designer and the production base are the same.
        3. "Kedr" will replace "Yars" in due time - calmly and evolutionarily, as the "Poplar" came in due time (development began in the late 70s with the presence of "Pioneer" - that's the budget saws, right?) change to the same "Pioneer".
        Conclusion: you shouldn't immediately shout "Help, sawmakers rob!". Replacing one DBK with another is a completely natural process, especially if you consider that the industry gives only 10 years of a warranty period of operation - then there are tricks of white and black magic with the extension of terms.

        I agree with you.
        The only thing I would like to note about: "... calmly and evolutionarily, as Popol came in due time (development began in the late 70s with the presence of Pioneer ...", everything was not unambiguous there, planned ... "Pioneers" sawed themselves to the hooting in the media, fired back under the control of amers. "Poplars" were taken, put on duty in a wild haste. Sometimes in the field, because BSPs were not ready, not to mention the barracks, officer housing ...
        1. Moore
          Moore 28 October 2021 14: 58
          +3
          I would like to note, in turn, that by the beginning of the barbaric destruction of the Pioneers, the Topol was already ready as a complex, and the one with the “dot” was already on duty in two, if I’m not mistaken, divisions. To be honest, I did not notice the wild haste. Three regiments from different divisions underwent retraining at once, passed the theory, rolled back on training equipment, received combat equipment, and decreased on the PPD. When the turn came to us, the equipment was sent to the arsenal for a month so that it would not interfere with the PPD, then they went, received and began to prepare for experimental combat duty. Without any excitement ... Well, and housing ... We managed to build a couple of new houses before 91, then that's it.
          1. Aag
            Aag 28 October 2021 20: 41
            0
            Quote: Moore
            I would like to note, in turn, that by the beginning of the barbaric destruction of the Pioneers, the Topol was already ready as a complex, and the one with the “dot” was already on duty in two, if I’m not mistaken, divisions. To be honest, I did not notice the wild haste. Three regiments from different divisions underwent retraining at once, passed the theory, rolled back on training equipment, received combat equipment, and decreased on the PPD. When the turn came to us, the equipment was sent to the arsenal for a month so that it would not interfere with the PPD, then they went, received and began to prepare for experimental combat duty. Without any excitement ... Well, and housing ... We managed to build a couple of new houses before 91, then that's it.

            Dear Moore, Colleague!
            The third time I try to answer you, it flies ...
            I did not divulge anything secret ...))).
            You can take a look at the Wiki, the story is 345rp 25rd .... I added only a few vital, everyday "pictures" from myself ...
            Sorry, four hours later to get up for work ... It is impossible to retire the MO, even with a disability, to sit, and even more so, swing in a rocking chair (I hope you know such an anecdote about a military pensioner?).
            "... When the turn came to us, the equipment was sent to the arsenal for a month so that it would not interfere with the PPD, then we went, got it and began to prepare for experimental combat duty ..."
            As I understand it, they passed the Pioneer, studied, reorganized, received, completed, took over ...
            Ours, about which he wrote, was somewhat more vite ...
            They shot (the first in the world (!)), Reformed (both the OS and the Pioneers - all in a bunch). And, exactly 33 years ago, they rushed to Plesetsk. Echelon, with l / s, transport equipment ... Two weeks on the way ... Of course, part of the l / s (officers, warrant officers sometimes) accompanied the remnants of the "Pioneers" for delivery. .. A part of them traveled around in heating cars with new "Topols", a part - with other equipment, units ...
            And the newly formed regiment underwent training in Plesetsk ... Well, they got in the winter: there was no gnat. From the snow in the face, through the missing window, you can escape by covering yourself with a mattress ...
            ... We learned to save money, - in the canteen of the training center, breakfast cost 10 (I don't remember, - rubles, or kopecks): 6-semolina porridge, 2-tea, 2-bread ...
            No! Not everything was so dull. On the contrary, there was a swimming pool (it seems even free, well, or, almost) ... Three km through a blizzard ...
            Well, etc ... You can remember for a long time.
            He promised to be laconic, - could not))).
            He did not say the main thing, apparently, it was different everywhere ...
            I think we'll "cross" again ... hi
        2. Aag
          Aag 28 October 2021 17: 01
          0
          Quote: AAG
          Quote: Moore
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Thus, in Russia, in 2000, they put into service the Topol, ten years later it turns out that the Topol no longer corresponds to its purpose and they start producing the Yars ... It takes a little more than ten years and it turns out. that all these "Topol" and "Yars" were "fufile". The real, really new, effective in operation and destruction of targets - "Kedr" ...

          1. "Topol-M" (not "Topol") is the brainchild of the 90s, when MIT was required to create a product that would be completely enclosed in the production facilities of the Russian Federation. Well, partly Belarus, if we also take the PGRK. It was developed, in fact, for the PGRK and, in accordance with the current START-1 treaty, carried one warhead. People began to stick into the Topol-M mines out of despair and lack of money.
          2.In 2009, after the end of START-1, it became possible to stick several warheads on Topol-M, which was done under the Yars index. The structural differences between the first and the second are minimal - the designer and the production base are the same.
          3. "Kedr" will replace "Yars" in due time - calmly and evolutionarily, as the "Poplar" came in due time (development began in the late 70s with the presence of "Pioneer" - that's the budget saws, right?) change to the same "Pioneer".
          Conclusion: you shouldn't immediately shout "Help, sawmakers rob!". Replacing one DBK with another is a completely natural process, especially if you consider that the industry gives only 10 years of a warranty period of operation - then there are tricks of white and black magic with the extension of terms.

          I agree with you.
          The only thing I would like to note about: "... calmly and evolutionarily, as Popol came in due time (development began in the late 70s with the presence of Pioneer ...", everything was not unambiguous there, planned ... "Pioneers" sawed themselves to the hooting in the media, fired back under the control of amers. "Poplars" were taken, put on duty in a wild haste. Sometimes in the field, because BSPs were not ready, not to mention the barracks, officer housing ...

          Really, I wonder who is minus?
          Those who did not find it? So rejoice.
          Those who hate to hear this? So reality, it is! Not the same as the newly created blogger-psychotheapavts are broadcasting - "think about the good, and it will appear!" ...
      3. bk0010
        bk0010 28 October 2021 13: 29
        +2
        Quote: Moore
        how did "Topol" come in due time (development began in the late 70s with the presence of "Pioneer" - after all, budget sawmakers, right?) to replace the same "Pioneer".
        Pioneer is a medium-range missile, another weight category.
        1. Moore
          Moore 28 October 2021 15: 03
          +2
          "Pioneer" is a derivative of "Temp-2S" - PGRK with ICBMs. One designer for all, one production base, one design solutions. This is not the exotic machinery of the Yuzhny Design Bureau.
      4. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 October 2021 16: 37
        0
        Quote: Moore
        especially if you consider that the industry gives only 10 years of a warranty period of operation - then there are tricks of white and black magic with the extension of terms.

        "Listen! You argue apaly, yeah ..." (c)
        And if you take a closer look at the warranty period, it turns out that there is no magic at all:
        ... Head of the NPO Mashinostroyenia Department Leonid Shelepin:
        "The design of the PC-18 is very reliable. In 1999 it is planned to bring the service life up to twenty five years old. In the future, this period may be extended. up to thirty years. Operational warranty supervision is successful. Now minor routine maintenance is being carried out once every three months, large routine maintenance - every three years"Taking into account the intention of the NPO Mashinostroyenia team to bring the missile's guaranteed service life to 25 years, its combat duty can continue until 2010.
        http://www.uhlib.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2000_07/p5.php
        1. Aag
          Aag 28 October 2021 17: 19
          0
          Quote: BoA KAA
          Quote: Moore
          especially if you consider that the industry gives only 10 years of a warranty period of operation - then there are tricks of white and black magic with the extension of terms.

          "Listen! You argue apaly, yeah ..." (c)
          And if you take a closer look at the warranty period, it turns out that there is no magic at all:
          ... Head of the NPO Mashinostroyenia Department Leonid Shelepin:
          "The design of the PC-18 is very reliable. In 1999 it is planned to bring the service life up to twenty five years old. In the future, this period may be extended. up to thirty years. Operational warranty supervision is successful. Now minor routine maintenance is being carried out once every three months, large routine maintenance - every three years"Taking into account the intention of the NPO Mashinostroyenia team to bring the missile's guaranteed service life to 25 years, its combat duty can continue until 2010.
          http://www.uhlib.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2000_07/p5.php

          Dear (based on a number of other comments), KAA!
          You, please, either indicate irony in the comments, or ... Comrade. Moore has already "subtly" hinted about "black", "white" in extending the service life. Well, profonation? By the way, it is also not cheap (edrit-madrit, he also began to monetize everything!). Extended (with the last bit of strength)! In order to ensure the maximum number of delivery vehicles (stipulated by the START Treaty).
          IMHO: Once again (after the 90s), the Strategic Missile Forces becomes the only restraining factor for the West (sorry, so in general, you can develop a whole discussion, therefore, about. Another time ..)
          And the fact that something is being done in the interests of the Strategic Missile Forces is only welcome.
          I am also glad that these developments are not particularly presented, they are promoting, - the export potential, thank God, is zero so far!))) hi
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 28 October 2021 17: 33
            0
            Quote: AAG
            these developments are not particularly present, they are promoting, - the export potential, thank God, is zero so far!

            You are wrong, because export potential our ICBMs are the highest!
            But we are definitely not going to sell, transfer or somehow "lend" clients and those who are eager to get a two-handed missile sword. There is a missile technology nonproliferation treaty, which we are adhering to unswervingly.
            Secondly. These are only the first 18 cars that were refueled in mines. And then everyone switched to the ampulization of MCT, so the warranty period increased to 30 years. KRV gives a 10-year guarantee for missiles in TPK with argon under pressure 1a. ICBMs have slightly different parameters.
            Therefore, I will keep your remark in mind, but the fact remains.
    3. Illanatol
      Illanatol 29 October 2021 08: 54
      0
      Thus, in Russia, in 2000, they put into service the Topol, ten years later it turns out that the Topol no longer corresponds to its intended purpose and they start producing Yars ... It takes a little more than ten years and it turns out. that all these "Topol" and "Yars" were "fooled".


      Why are they not fit for purpose? We just managed to develop a better RK, so what? Nobody sends "Poplar" and "Yarsy" to a landfill. What does their "foolery" follow from?
      The potential adversary is busy developing missile defense. This means that we also need to develop and improve the RK, so that they are more likely to be able to overcome missile defense.
    4. ABC-schutze
      ABC-schutze 29 October 2021 13: 34
      0
      "Thus, in Russia, in 2000, they put into service the Topol, ten years later it turns out that the Topol no longer corresponds to its purpose and they start producing Yarsov ..."
      *
      If I'm not mistaken, in the mentioned year, the aforementioned Soviet "Topol", which served 15 years, are not "put", "removed" ... But the Russian "Topol-M" are being adopted ...

      And Yars, since the United States is withdrawing from the ABM Agreement in the same period. Didn't you notice? ..

      Thus, your message is already initially false and carries the character of "general watering", followed by a sharp departure from the "rocket" theme to the "social" theme.

      From which the Strategic Missile Forces, allegedly "sawing" the budget, are "unreasonably deprived" of something there ...

      And at the expense of "fufelnorsti" Topol and Yarsov, if not difficult, more specifically, pl. What kind of woods do you have? ..

      And what does "unrestrained" modernization mean? .. modernization of weapons and military equipment is a natural and normal, CONTINUOUS process ... and for the Kalashnikov assault rifle, and not only for Russian ICBMs, where the Strategic Missile Forces solve the BASIC scope of tasks to ensure strategic deterrence ...
    5. Alexander Popov_1963
      Alexander Popov_1963 29 October 2021 23: 24
      0
      Let's do this: if in the years preceding our exchange of views, the global thermonuclear fusion did not happen, then the "cut", about which you probably know more than me, has fulfilled its function of nuclear deterrence. And if so, then I personally do not mind.
    6. Barberry25
      Barberry25 1 November 2021 14: 36
      -2
      only one thing can be said ...
  4. Tugarin
    Tugarin 28 October 2021 07: 25
    +20
    in the wake of the TASS report, other versions appeared. More authoritative publications and blogs suggested that a missile of one of the modernized types could pass the tests. Mentioned ROC with codes "Aspen-RV" and "Sirena-M"
    reports of the recent start of flight tests of the Kedr product turned out to be premature and ahead of schedule by about half a decade

    Spirited the foe's head. They do not cherish at all ...
  5. PPD
    PPD 28 October 2021 08: 55
    0
    And it would be nice to first develop the technique, check how it works, and only then give the names. And then announcements in style - as we will create right now and everyone will tremble ... feel
    1. AUL
      AUL 28 October 2021 10: 10
      +1
      And this is so that the enemies would not guess. Such ringing in the media is worth it - the brains are melting!
      This year it was announced coming development of a project with the code "Cedar". A missile of this type will enter service by the end of the decade, however, it has already been reported about the beginning of its flight tests.
      What is it like? Development is still only is coming, and the rocket is already flying? Yes, the enemies will definitely fall into the wrong, trying to figure it out. And we are not threatened, we are familiar! laughing
      1. Aag
        Aag 28 October 2021 12: 20
        0
        Quote: AUL
        And this is so that the enemies would not guess. Such ringing in the media is worth it - the brains are melting!
        This year it was announced coming development of a project with the code "Cedar". A missile of this type will enter service by the end of the decade, however, it has already been reported about the beginning of its flight tests.
        What is it like? Development is still only is coming, and the rocket is already flying? Yes, the enemies will definitely fall into the wrong, trying to figure it out. And we are not threatened, we are familiar! laughing

        "... How is it? Development is still coming, and the rocket is already flying? ..."
        The fact is that the RK, PGRK, is not only a rocket, but also many units, systems, structures. And there is a lot to improve there.
        1. AUL
          AUL 28 October 2021 15: 42
          0
          Quote: AAG
          The fact is that the RK, PGRK, is not only a rocket, but also many units, systems, structures. And there is a lot to improve there.

          Who would argue with the multiplication table! Yes, only you have not answered the question - where did this flying rocket come from, if the project has not yet been opened? Have you taken an old one and shoot? What for? She's old, proven. And the new one is not yet - the project is not yet open. And outside the project, on their own initiative, no one will allow the rocket to be made before flight tests - who, you son of a dog, allowed you to spend finances, material and human reserves on an undiscovered topic ?! And on the hat, on the hat ...
          1. Aag
            Aag 28 October 2021 17: 54
            0
            Quote: AUL
            Quote: AAG
            The fact is that the RK, PGRK, is not only a rocket, but also many units, systems, structures. And there is a lot to improve there.

            Who would argue with the multiplication table! Yes, only you have not answered the question - where did this flying rocket come from, if the project has not yet been opened? Have you taken an old one and shoot? What for? She's old, proven. And the new one is not yet - the project is not yet open. And outside the project, on their own initiative, no one will allow the rocket to be made before flight tests - who, you son of a dog, allowed you to spend finances, material and human reserves on an undiscovered topic ?! And on the hat, on the hat ...

            "... They took some old one and shoot? And why? ..."
            Dear AUL! Answering your question: I don’t know to know, but I can assume that in the light of the tendencies to overcome missile defense, the bets seem to be made either on hypersound (conditionally) or on maneuver (carrier, missiles; BB). The "old", "time-tested" operation, rocket launches, "introduced" the ability to maneuver on the acceleration section (and, or later), rebuilt the algorithm for the separation of BB, false blocks ... etc. After all, while the global missile defense system relies on, as archaic as it does not sound, ballistics. (Place of launch-trajectory-calculation of the place of "meeting" ..) the budget will not pull!
            I hope I answered your question. hi
            1. AUL
              AUL 28 October 2021 18: 18
              0
              Quote: AAG
              .I admit that they took the "old", "time-tested" operation, rocket launches, "introduced" the ability to maneuver on the acceleration section (and, or later), rebuilt the algorithm for the separation of the BB, false blocks ... etc.

              Again you are explaining to me something with which I did not argue. But what I am telling you, you do not want to hear at all. The fact that you "allow", pulls, at least, a very serious OCD (well, if you know what it is) within the framework of a project. And for OCD you need:
              - financial support;
              - material support (stands, materials and components, pilot production machinery park, etc.);
              - human resources that will deal with this ROC (at the expense of other work, of course);
              - loading of subcontractors (which this left, unscheduled work has not rested on anything);
              and much more.
              And how do you imagine solving these issues without opening a topic (now it is called a project), including it in work plans, allocating funding, etc.)?
              1. Aag
                Aag 28 October 2021 19: 48
                0
                Quote: AUL
                Quote: AAG
                .I admit that they took the "old", "time-tested" operation, rocket launches, "introduced" the ability to maneuver on the acceleration section (and, or later), rebuilt the algorithm for the separation of the BB, false blocks ... etc.

                Again you are explaining to me something with which I did not argue. But what I am telling you, you do not want to hear at all. The fact that you "allow", pulls, at least, a very serious OCD (well, if you know what it is) within the framework of a project. And for OCD you need:
                - financial support;
                - material support (stands, materials and components, pilot production machinery park, etc.);
                - human resources that will deal with this ROC (at the expense of other work, of course);
                - loading of subcontractors (which this left, unscheduled work has not rested on anything);
                and much more.
                And how do you imagine solving these issues without opening a topic (now it is called a project), including it in work plans, allocating funding, etc.)?

                Well, excuse me, please ... I answered your question "... where did the flying rocket come from ...". Expressed his assumption.
                What is ROC, I can only imagine as an operator (I am sure, you understand that communication is only through complaints, industry representatives ...) Funding schemes, especially modern ones, are not witches to me ...
                "... OCD requires:
                - financial support;
                - material support (stands, materials and components, pilot production machinery park, etc.);
                - human resources that will deal with this ROC (at the expense of other work, of course);
                - loading of subcontractors (which this left, unscheduled work has not rested on anything);
                and much more...."
                - I answered about financing, - I don’t know.
                - by mat. providing ... machines, stands ... And what, after each completed "theme" they are now destroyed?
                - subcontractors ... Sitting on salaries, orders are not needed, are they all sent out by the forest?
                No, I really don't know! It seems like in other areas of production they are fighting (!) For orders ...
                If suddenly, the order for such work did not shine on the State Purchases, then I am only FOR!
                IMHO: The Defense Ministry should have the right to an "intimate" life in iconic, non-export, commercial areas of the country's defense (alas, yes, we did not defeat corruption).
                1. AUL
                  AUL 28 October 2021 20: 50
                  0
                  The fact of the matter is that you see the situation through the eyes of the operator, and I look from the side of the developer and manufacturer. And this is the huge difference in grades.
                  - I answered about financing, - I don’t know.
                  The most dreary question. The topic (project) is included in the research institute plan for a reason - there is a stage of the so-called. protection of the topic (project) in the chapter. It is required to substantiate the necessity and economic efficiency of this topic, indicate potential users of the development, prove the possibility of carrying out this project by the forces of this research institute, indicating the subcontractors and co-executors, substantiate the requested funding and the timing of the topic, and much more. And, if everything goes well, the topic is included in the research institute's plan in two years (if funding is scrapped)
                  - by mat. providing ... machines, stands ... And what, after each completed "theme" they are now destroyed?
                  Stands, if they are versatile enough, certainly do not destroy. But most of the stands are intended for debugging / testing some specific nodes and blocks, they have unique functionality and most often it is not possible to reconfigure them. And the machines can simply be busy performing work on other topics.
                  In terms of software, it is often easier and faster to rewrite MO from scratch than to modify an old one written by someone. Unless he wrote it himself. And then, if the source code is written in C ++, then figs you will read what he wrote the day before yesterday. Trust the old programmer.
                  And another moment. You will not receive in the warehouse either a bearing or a lousy resistor without a document - a requirement or a fence card, which indicates the topic to which this value is written off.
                  So, alas, it will not work to "slightly modify" the rocket without opening a new project (or at least OCD)!
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 28 October 2021 21: 23
                    0
                    Quote: AUL
                    The fact of the matter is that you see the situation through the eyes of the operator, and I look from the side of the developer and manufacturer. And this is the huge difference in grades.
                    - I answered about financing, - I don’t know.
                    The most dreary question. The topic (project) is included in the research institute plan for a reason - there is a stage of the so-called. protection of the topic (project) in the chapter. It is required to substantiate the necessity and economic efficiency of this topic, indicate potential users of the development, prove the possibility of carrying out this project by the forces of this research institute, indicating the subcontractors and co-executors, substantiate the requested funding and the timing of the topic, and much more. And, if everything goes well, the topic is included in the research institute's plan in two years (if funding is scrapped)
                    - by mat. providing ... machines, stands ... And what, after each completed "theme" they are now destroyed?
                    Stands, if they are versatile enough, certainly do not destroy. But most of the stands are intended for debugging / testing some specific nodes and blocks, they have unique functionality and most often it is not possible to reconfigure them. And the machines can simply be busy performing work on other topics.
                    In terms of software, it is often easier and faster to rewrite MO from scratch than to modify an old one written by someone. Unless he wrote it himself. And then, if the source code is written in C ++, then figs you will read what he wrote the day before yesterday. Trust the old programmer.
                    And another moment. You will not receive in the warehouse either a bearing or a lousy resistor without a document - a requirement or a fence card, which indicates the topic to which this value is written off.
                    So, alas, it will not work to "slightly modify" the rocket without opening a new project (or at least OCD)!

                    Thanks for the detailed answer! hi
                    It seems that you are very worried about your (put quotes, or not?) Business, your area of ​​work ... hi
                    Just welcome.
                    But! Of all that you have listed, if I understood correctly, only a small fraction of the work directly relates to the WORK. The rest, -steam, -prove that you can work, convince, -that you want to work, justify why it is you who should work, presented, -that you have everything for this ...
                    Did I understand you correctly?
                    IMHO: I always thought that excessive control harms business ... (on the other hand, how to defeat incompetence (carelessness), corruption (theft)?
                    1. AUL
                      AUL 28 October 2021 21: 33
                      0
                      Quote: AAG
                      But! Of all that you have listed, if I understood correctly, only a small fraction of the work directly relates to the WORK. The rest, -steam, -prove that you can work, convince, -that you want to work, justify why it is you who should work, presented, -that you have everything for this ...
                      Did I understand you correctly?

                      No, it’s wrong. All these hemorrhoids precedes the opening themes. And when the topic is approved and open, normal work on it begins. Naturally, with periodic reports by stages in front of the curator of the topic in the chapter and the final report-delivery of the project. And, of course, with periodic wicks for vivacity in the process.
                      1. Aag
                        Aag 28 October 2021 22: 35
                        0
                        Quote: AUL
                        Quote: AAG
                        But! Of all that you have listed, if I understood correctly, only a small fraction of the work directly relates to the WORK. The rest, -steam, -prove that you can work, convince, -that you want to work, justify why it is you who should work, presented, -that you have everything for this ...
                        Did I understand you correctly?

                        No, it’s wrong. All these hemorrhoids precedes the opening themes. And when the topic is approved and open, normal work on it begins. Naturally, with periodic reports by stages in front of the curator of the topic in the chapter and the final report-delivery of the project. And, of course, with periodic wicks for vivacity in the process.

                        Thanks for the clarifications!
                        Informative, interesting (true) ... Lying on the couch ... It's good that these problems didn't really concern me during my service (as an operator).
                        No, there were "misunderstandings" with the trades .... It's clear that the crooked handles of their idiots, forced violations (there were such times!) Tried to mask ... Most often they found a common language with industry representatives, - we saw how they work, they saw how we worked, - there was an understanding that we were doing one common thing ...
                        . Bow to the trades! - they suffered with us ... On the other hand, try to understand correctly, - sins, violation of operating instructions, - not always, far from always, - the fault of calculations (illiteracy, sloppiness).
                        You have your cockroaches, we have our ...
                        Order! (Well, if the chief engineer of the division, orally, refuses to give a written order, he demands to bring the density of the electrolyte in the battery to 1,3 by adding acid (the battery is no longer charged, even on time).
                        In short, - "Each hut has its own rattles ..."
                        But they did it somehow! I remember being a major with my own hands I sawed a 6ST-190 with a hacksaw in order to collect one of three batteries! (1998 ...).
  6. prior
    prior 28 October 2021 10: 09
    +1
    Russia does not intend to "green" Europe and America with "Topols" in the future.
    Let's plant them with "Cedars".
  7. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 28 October 2021 11: 01
    0
    Project "Cedar" ... And hazel grows in our forests!
    1. ja-ja-vw
      ja-ja-vw 28 October 2021 12: 40
      -1
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Project "Cedar" ... And hazel grows in our forests!

      ray aspen, stakes from it are specific.
      Although ours can be called plainly: DRYN, OGLOBLYA
      run drin on the adversary, give the shaft along the aggressor's ridge.
  8. Castro Ruiz
    Castro Ruiz 28 October 2021 11: 47
    -2
    Deep modernization, with modern electronics Rubezh will also be Cedar.
    1. ja-ja-vw
      ja-ja-vw 28 October 2021 12: 44
      -2
      Quote: CastroRuiz
      Deep modernization, with modern electronics Rubezh will also be Cedar.

      "Frontier" is a complex. ICBM there "Vanguard"
      There, and so all the electronics are relevant
  9. Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 28 October 2021 16: 33
    -1
    Quote: Alex777
    An informed lieutenant general told me that the interception of Poplar is a solvable task for the US missile defense.

    Well, we are also sitting here, so, with the men at the entrance, and the neighbor says ... And he, if anything, worked as a plumber all his life! He says, you know, in the current political situation it is better for us not to fly into space and make films there, but build new ICBMs! How! Where is your lieutenant general there! wassat
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. stankow
    stankow 21 December 2021 22: 58
    0
    Quote: ROSS 42

    to ask the “inventors” why suddenly “good thoughts come after” ten years of operation?

    So what kind of inventors, if after ten (!) Years there is no thought of improvement !?
  12. Apollo
    Apollo 13 January 2022 20: 25
    -1
    Then there will be Truffle, then some Pistachio ... and then everywhere. Russia plunged itself into an arms race, this is obvious, although the potential is no longer the same as that of the USSR. I am becoming more and more convinced that if this is not stopped, the Russian Federation will suffer the fate of the USSR in whose army I served for many years ...