Correct move underwater

125

Just recently, considering the plans of the Japanese military department to modernize the Izumo destroyers-helicopter carriers into full-fledged aircraft carriers, I thought about who the Japanese would be friends with along with the Americans, who so kindly helps the Japanese self-defense forces (funny even, to be honest) becomes full-fledged fleet... It is clear that these are China and Russia. You can add someone else, such as South Korea, with which the Japanese have territorial disputes, but the Americans are unlikely to allow the Japanese and South Koreans to grapple.

I have said more than once and I will repeat myself again: today Japan has just a wonderful, and most importantly, fleet consisting of new ships. In the future - 2 aircraft carriers, 2 helicopter carriers, 37 destroyers, 21 submarines, 3 landing dock ships. Considering that 12 submarines also have an independent VNEU, this is a very, very decent force.



Our Pacific Fleet is a very modest force in terms of naval strength.

1 old missile cruiser, 1 old destroyer, 4 old large anti-submarine ships. All are Soviet-built. 3 new frigates. 3 nuclear submarines with cruise missiles and 2 more under repair. 1 nuclear submarine "Shchuka-B" and 3 more under repair. And 8 diesel-electric submarines of the type "Halibut" and "Varshavyanka".

Strategic missile cruisers are not included in this list, they have slightly different, specific tasks. Of course, if it comes to washing away militaristic aspirations from Japan with a large amount of sea water, then it will be possible to recall the "Boreyah". But not before.

So news that the new diesel-electric submarine Magadan has joined the Pacific Fleet is good news. If we consider that the plans until 2024 are to equip the Pacific Fleet with six more submarines of Project 636.3, then this will significantly strengthen the naval grouping in the Pacific Ocean and, accordingly, the defense capability of Russia.


Six "Varshavyanka" - is it a lot or what?

If you study the opinions of many experts, the "Varshavyanka" in their combat characteristics surpass all diesel-electric boats in service with the countries of the region.

Project 636.3 is a modernized and improved project 877 "Halibut", which was created in the USSR at the end of the 70s of the last century.

The project was named "Varshavyanka" with a hint that this boat will be supplied to the countries of the Warsaw Treaty Organization. Indeed, "Varshavyanka" was a simplified export version of "Halibut", which was supplied, although not to the "allies" in the ATS, but was sold to China, India, Vietnam and Algeria.

"For myself" "Varshavyanka" went in a slightly different configuration. They worked well on the boat, it became somewhat longer than the "Halibut", the displacement, speed and depth of diving increased. "Varshavyanka" dives a little deeper than, for example, the Japanese "Soryu", and its speed is higher, either above water or underwater.

Of course, these figures are not a complete indication of how relevant Varshavyanka is as a means of defense or attack.

An important component is the optimal combination of acoustic stealth and the ability to detect targets at maximum range, navigation systems, combat systems control systems and the capabilities of the boat's missile and torpedo armament itself.

The only difference between the Russian submarine and the same "Soryu", and indeed from the advanced non-nuclear submarines, is the absence of VNEU. This, of course, gives advantages to foreign samples, and the problem of Russian VNEU is a big problem for an indefinite time.

However, the boats of Project 636.3 in their characteristics are not much inferior to imported boats, albeit equipped with air-independent installations. But the missile armament of the "Varshavyanka", consisting of "Calibers" is significantly superior to the armament of the same "Soryu", consisting of the American UGM-84 "Harpoon".

The Harpoon is, of course, a very decent rocket, but the Caliber is vastly superior. And in this regard, "Varshavyanka" is a very universal weapon, even if it does not have independence from surfacing.

In addition, the "Varshavyanka" were nicknamed "Black Holes" for a reason, they are really very secretive and quiet boats. Modern means of noise suppression and noise reduction give the submarine a real opportunity to detect an enemy ship outside the zone of its detection and attack it with cruise missiles from under the water.

At the same time, "Caliber" is a universal missile, which can attack not only surface targets, but also objects on the shore.

The quiet running of the Varshavyanka, so quiet that even the most modern hydroacoustic stations have problems detecting Russian boats.


"Varshavyanka" is a very real weapon that can significantly cool the ardor of the Japanese militarists. Six new submarines guarding the Russian borders is, on the one hand, not as many as we would like, but also not as few as it could be.

The presence of nuclear submarines in the Pacific Fleet is excellent. But there are not as many of them as we would like. The Japanese may well be able to deploy two AUG in the near future. Initially oriented, most likely to the west and north. To China and Russia.


Have to answer. And here there are two options: either in quantity, building ships that can neutralize the strength of the Japanese fleet, or in quality, due to technologies that will provide Russian boats with an advantage over the enemy and weapons, the attacks of which the enemy cannot parry.

The strike group of the Japanese fleet from an aircraft carrier, helicopter carrier and destroyers is a reality that will cut the waves in a couple of years. Destroyers' planes, helicopters and missile weapons are a serious force. And, given the capabilities of our Pacific Fleet, the best way to enlighten such groups may be "Calibers" launched from under the water, beyond the guaranteed detection limit, from submarine torpedo tubes.

You can dream as much as you like of naval battles, of naval groupings that shower each other with missiles, shells and torpedoes. But it would be more effective, and most importantly - with the least losses in personnel, to strike with missile weapons from under the water.

We will still have to deal with the containment of Japan's growing interests in the region, especially given the presence of the Japanese behind the American fleet.

We need Varshavyanka. Especially in the Pacific Ocean. Today it is perhaps the hottest region in the world.

The first submarine of project 636.6 "Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky" was transferred to the fleet in November 2019.
The second Varshavyanka was commissioned in October 2020.
The third, "Magadan" - in October 2021.

Correct move underwater

The fact that 2019 years have passed since the laying of the Magadan (November 2021) to its commissioning (October 2) can be viewed in different ways. We will look in the position that 2 years for a submarine is not so much. In the end, this is a rather complicated technique and rush is not really unnecessary here, it is just dangerous. Better quality.

So three more "Varshavyankas" are a good help, but ... Yes, we have the Northern, we have the Baltic and Black Sea fleets. But in the Pacific Ocean we have, perhaps, the most serious opponents, both in terms of aspirations, in terms of quantity and quality. So the more new ships the Pacific Fleet gets, the better it will affect the country's security.

And yet, our fleet really needs a modern submarine with VNEU.
125 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -6
    22 October 2021 05: 27
    The presence of nuclear submarines in the Pacific Fleet is excellent.

    And what is so beautiful for us? smile
    This is a threat to us.
    Interestingly, American Seawulf will be able to discover Varshavyanka unnoticed by her?
    1. +8
      22 October 2021 06: 45
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Interestingly, American Seawulf will be able to discover Varshavyanka unnoticed by her?

      Of course it can, Varshavyanka is a project developed 40 years ago in the Soviet Union with the energy of the Second World War. If you look at what is happening with the submarine at the Pacific Fleet, you will recall a tube American film from the 90s.
      1. +15
        22 October 2021 07: 26
        1. We survived ... The Pacific Fleet of the USSR opposed the US fleet in the Pacific Ocean (3,7 and as echelon 5 OE), and now we do not know how to neutralize the Japanese fleet ...
        But the missile armament of the "Varshavyanka", consisting of "Caliber" is significantly superior to the armament of the same "Soryu", consisting of the American UGM-84 "Harpoon"

        Author, how will Caliber fight Harpoon? Duel?
        1. +9
          22 October 2021 07: 39
          Quote: Civil
          We survived ... the USSR Pacific Fleet opposed the US fleet in the Pacific Ocean (3,7 and as echelon 5 OE), and now we do not know how to neutralize the Japanese fleet ...

          The Soviet Pacific Fleet resisted not without the help of the Japanese, who, in particular, by order of the Soviet Union, built the BPD-41, a huge floating dock. In addition, the Japanese sold Toshiba high-precision machine tools to the Soviet Union through dummy firms, after which the noise of the Soviet boats dropped sharply. There was a big scandal in the West. The machines remained at the Baltic plant and Zvezdochka.
      2. +4
        22 October 2021 14: 08
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Interestingly, American Seawulf will be able to discover Varshavyanka unnoticed by her?

        Of course it can, Varshavyanka is a project developed 40 years ago in the Soviet Union with the energy of the Second World War.

        And what does energy have to do with it? And Seawulf, sorry, when was it developed? Not 40 years ago. Varshavyanka most likely has an advantage in terms of noise on a quiet run.
      3. AUL
        +12
        22 October 2021 14: 23
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        Varshavyanka is a project developed 40 years ago in the Soviet Union with the energy of the Second World War.

        Interestingly, Roman read the article the day before yesterday here, on the branch "Armament"? There is a slightly different view of Varshavyanka!
        "Suicide bombers" of the "Black holes" project 877 and 636
        October 20 2021
        1. +1
          22 October 2021 14: 29
          Quote from AUL
          Roman read the article the day before yesterday here, on the branch "Armament"?

          Yesterday, Roman apparently published this publication.
      4. -1
        22 October 2021 17: 05
        do you have any evidence or do you just think so
    2. +14
      22 October 2021 08: 41
      An article by a person who understands the subject has just come out, and he calls these boats "mass graves for the crews," gives reasons. And then there was a novel with another opus about nothing.
      1. -10
        22 October 2021 09: 44
        An article by a person who understands the subject has just come out, and he calls these boats "mass graves for the crews," gives reasons.

        Are you sure ? )))
        I met old that Klimov, at one specialized military forum, was blown to smithereens by the acting captain of the submarine.
        1. -1
          22 October 2021 09: 52
          Has Klimov ever praised anything at all?
          1. -5
            22 October 2021 12: 27
            Quote: Angry Troll
            Has Klimov ever praised anything at all?

            It depends on the fee!
            1. +5
              22 October 2021 16: 11
              Don't lalya, Sergei. This is not true.
              1. -3
                25 October 2021 08: 10
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                This is not true

                But as? Can you provide Mr. Klimov's income statement?
                1. +3
                  25 October 2021 13: 11
                  The burden of proof lies with the accuser.
                  You voted about the fee.
                  Prove it.
                  1. -2
                    25 October 2021 13: 27
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    The burden of proof lies with the accuser

                    laughing Eco you are not in trend of modern realities! Although no ... you laid out your vision of events in the article and ask us to refute them. I laid out my opinion, refute! wink
                    1. +2
                      25 October 2021 16: 03
                      You can go further and start accusing you of homosexuality, for example, launder yourself.
                      laughing
                      1. 0
                        26 October 2021 07: 37
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        You can go further

                        What you do in your articles, pass your fantasies as reality! And you accuse those in power that they are not guided by your fantasies! laughing
                      2. 0
                        26 October 2021 09: 56
                        Can you give an example?
                      3. 0
                        26 October 2021 12: 17
                        Sash, you don't even have to go far!
                        with a corrupt state administration, controlled by the fifth column in power, an openly brainless state apparatus and near-zero economic development rates - Russia.

                        This is the same Russia, which, without a single shot, put almost all of Europe in the pose of a supplicant!
                        Do you remember that Vangov said that Project 20380 was covered with a copper basin? Now you are vanging for Japan ... and what will happen if Russia in the place of hostilities redraws the tap with gas and coal to Japan?
        2. +25
          22 October 2021 09: 56
          There are no captains on submarines
          There are commanders.
          And they have no time to sit on the forums and smash the Klimovs.
          Can I link to a specialized forum?
        3. -6
          22 October 2021 12: 26
          Quote: lucul
          Met inf

          From Klimov himself ???
        4. +7
          22 October 2021 16: 43
          On the boat Commander.
          Not the captain.
          And ... Actors don't sit on forums. They stupidly have no time to engage in boltology.
          1. +2
            23 October 2021 18: 54
            Quote: Serge-667
            Actors do not sit on forums. They stupidly have no time to engage in boltology.

            Yes you? here on the VO there is also an adviser to Putin, and the one who dismembered Europe and the General Staff of the Russian Federation, and you will not believe, this is one person .......
            1. +2
              23 October 2021 19: 43
              I am aware of this)) he is an exception.
    3. -1
      22 October 2021 09: 47
      And yet, our fleet really needs a modern submarine with VNEU.
      Our fleet, in principle, needs modern submarines and nuclear and diesel-electric. As for VNEU, there is no need to overestimate these fashionable toys. VNEU will by no means replace the diesel engine, but only supplement it. The reason is the extremely low efficiency of these motors. Submarines can reach speeds of no more than 4-5 knots on this engine. So for comparison, the boat K-162 of the project 661. She could develop a speed in the submerged position of 80,4 km / h! fellow The Americans are well aware of this, and they never got a single boat with these engines.
      1. -3
        22 October 2021 10: 00
        Learn the story
        Project 617 boat under water 14 knots. And this is the 50s: a boat with a steam-gas turbine.
        1. -1
          22 October 2021 12: 23
          Quote: Leha667
          Learn the story
          Project 617 boat under water 14 knots. And this is the 50s: a boat with a steam-gas turbine.

          What are you carrying!? In 1970, the K-162 submarine of the "Anchar" project boosted up to the speed that I gave above. Why your writing about project 617 is not clear.
        2. +2
          22 October 2021 13: 02
          Quote: Leha667
          And this is the 50s: a boat with a steam-gas turbine.

          Walter's turbine ... 1943!
      2. 0
        22 October 2021 11: 05
        Quote: Proxima
        And yet, our fleet really needs a modern submarine with VNEU.
        Our fleet, in principle, needs modern submarines and nuclear and diesel-electric. As for VNEU, there is no need to overestimate these fashionable toys. VNEU will by no means replace the diesel engine, but only supplement it. The reason is the extremely low efficiency of these motors. Submarines can reach speeds of no more than 4-5 knots on this engine. So for comparison, the boat K-162 of the project 661. She could develop a speed in the submerged position of 80,4 km / h! fellow The Americans are well aware of this, and they never got a single boat with these engines.

        Sooooo convincing. Especially considering that the United States does not build diesel, and generally no other than nuclear
      3. -1
        23 October 2021 00: 45
        As for VNEU, there is no need to overestimate these fashionable toys. VNEU will by no means replace the diesel engine, but only supplement it. The reason is the extremely low efficiency of these motors. Submarines can develop a speed of no more than 4-5 knots on this engine.

        VNEU allows the submarine Soryu to travel 6000 nautical miles in a submerged position, at a speed of 6,5 knots, while Soryu can develop 20 knots under water.
        For comparison, our Diesel Varshavyanka can go underwater no more than 400 miles at three nodes. If you turn on the diesel and go in the RDP mode, then Varshavyanka will be heard throughout the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.
        So, for comparison, the project 162 K-661 boat could develop a speed in the submerged position of 80,4 km / h! fellow

        This project was named Goldfish because this nuclear submarine cost as an aircraft carrier. For comparison, the aircraft carrier Nimets, the same cost as the K-162 and built at the same time, still serves, and the K-162 was cut long ago.
        Nuclear submarines are effective, but Russia is not the United States, we need both modern nuclear submarines and modern diesel-electric submarines equipped with VNEU. The USSR, which was a country of a completely different order, also built diesel-electric submarines.
        1. -1
          25 November 2021 08: 01
          Quote: ramzay21
          VNEU allows the submarine Soryu to travel 6000 nautical miles in a submerged position, at a speed of 6,5 knots, while Soryu can develop 20 knots under water.

          don't believe, they love to lie too
      4. 0
        29 October 2021 04: 34
        And who needs these crazy underwater speeds? Even when I was a cadet, our teacher from the department of tactics, a former chief officer of the PLA, very aptly expressed himself about such moves: "put a bucket on your head and run screaming into the ocean."
    4. +3
      22 October 2021 09: 59
      - either take in quantity, building ships that can neutralize the strength of the Japanese fleet, or quality, due to technology,
      No either, only I. New technologies AND MODERN ships of the ocean zone.
      And corvettes.DEPL is, excuse me. "For the support of the pants."
      .As a forced, temporary measure.
      I forgot to add - modern minesweepers are also needed. And full-fledged MARINE aviation,
      For the Japanese have an almost THREE-TIME superiority in their planes.
    5. -13
      22 October 2021 10: 17
      Judging by the latest events, near Fr. Hainan, "Sea Wolf" is a good advertisement, but as a boat, not really))))
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 16: 14
        And how does the incident characterize SeaWolfe's shortcomings?
        1. -5
          22 October 2021 17: 08
          poor sonar equipment
        2. +1
          22 October 2021 17: 51
          If you believe the mattress advertisements, the "wolf" is equipped with the latest and greatest underwater lighting systems. If the boat collided with something, what does it mean?))))
          1. 0
            22 October 2021 22: 32
            So they worked in a passive mode, that's all.
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 23: 01
              What does it matter in what mode they worked? In the passive, they were out of order, the crew did not know how to use them. The result, as they say, is on the face and on the face, in the sense of the bow of the nuclear submarine. The boat was blind and deaf, in the event of a real war - they are dead, who cares for what reason.
              1. +2
                23 October 2021 04: 14
                You are insane.
                Passive mode means that the GAS does not emit, but only "listens". Do you think you can hear a motionless obstacle?

                They didn't crash into the submarine.
                1. -2
                  23 October 2021 10: 57
                  What did they hit? You know? Excuse me, what was the boat commander thinking if he was leading the boat and did not know where he was leading? Or did he lead the boat "on a pack of" Belomor "?))) And what difference does it make for the crew to die from what?
                  1. +4
                    25 October 2021 13: 18
                    Yes I know.
                    They crashed into the unmarked passive stationary bottom antenna of the Chinese hydroacoustic reconnaissance complex.
                    They are now trying to smear themselves in the "profile" media that, due to volcanic activity, the heights of some seamounts have changed, and they lightly clung to the influx of solidified lava, which is not on the map.
                    But we know.

                    And you stop carrying your heresy already.
                    1. -3
                      25 October 2021 17: 34
                      Did the Chinese and the mattress covers tell you this? You are talking nonsense - why should the nuclear submarine come close to the Chinese antenna - that would be detected for sure?)))
      2. 0
        23 October 2021 00: 53
        Judging by the latest events, near Fr. Hainan, "Sea Wolf" is a good advertisement, but as a boat, not really))))

        The human factor has not been canceled, and in accidents with nuclear submarines, we are ahead of the rest, unfortunately.
        As for the SeaWolves and Virginias, the Americans just have them, but we practically don't have Ash.
        1. -3
          23 October 2021 10: 59
          It's just that the mattress makers only voice those emergency situations that cannot be hidden, as an extreme case. All that is possible is kept secret.
    6. 0
      23 October 2021 09: 14
      They have different tasks and "habitat!")))
  2. +15
    22 October 2021 05: 32
    And yet, our fleet really needs a modern submarine with VNEU.

    Novel! Well, let's go to Red Square in front of the Kremlin and say it out loud in chorus ... Will something change? No reliable installation ... DON'T !!!
    As for Japan and its naval ambitions, it’s time to focus on the priority task of destroying naval bases with missile strikes. So that the ships that have fished out have nowhere to dock. And then you will need to look at the samurai behavior ...
    Chasing each other on and under water is stupid.
    1. +12
      22 October 2021 06: 25
      As for Japan and its naval ambitions, it’s time to focus on the priority task of destroying naval bases with missile strikes.
      And this is facilitated by the proximity of Japan. It is not for the US to hammer through a large part of the globe. Everything is close by. But, accordingly, the likely response is very large, almost guaranteed. Taking into account the defense strategy of Russia, also the first massive strike behind the enemy. That is, in addition to strike capabilities in the Far East, a full-fledged air defense positional area and especially missile defense are required. Perhaps no less rich in funds and BC than the capital.
      So that the ships that have fished out have nowhere to dock.
      The samurai will also be able to stick to the ports / bases of the allies - the USA, etc. Taking into account the unification of weapons, ammo will be able to replenish in the same place. Therefore, you will have to knock out the pennants. As much as I would not like to confine myself mainly to bases and industrial purposes.
    2. -1
      22 October 2021 17: 10
      there was news (like even here on topvar) that they created an outside, suitable for installation on a pl
  3. Aag
    +10
    22 October 2021 06: 01
    About "Correct move under water", about the situation at the Pacific Fleet, I think, it is worth listening to the opinions of people more immersed in the topic. I mean the dear comrade. Klimov.
    hi
  4. +18
    22 October 2021 06: 33
    I want to correct the data on the Pacific Fleet in the article. The destroyer "Bystry" is under permanent repair, the BOD "Admiral Vinogradov" is also under repair. And it is completely unclear what three new frigates are mentioned in the article? There is only one former BOD Marshal Shaposhnikov that has undergone modernization and has become a frigate. It is difficult to call it new, but it is even worse with the other two new frigates named in the article - they simply are not on the Pacific Fleet.
    1. +18
      22 October 2021 06: 51
      hi Roman is rewriting, there in the original three corvettes of the project 20380 are indicated as frigates. "Fast" at Dalzavod is used as a floating barracks, the crew is disbanded and will soon be disposed of.
      1. +5
        22 October 2021 06: 54
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        hi Roman is rewriting, there in the original three corvettes of the project 20380 are indicated as frigates. "Fast" at Dalzavod is used as a floating barracks, the crew is disbanded and will soon be disposed of.

        Thanks for the clarification. I forgot to indicate 5 corvettes of pr.20380 and 20385 to the Pacific Fleet. Here they are really new.
    2. -8
      22 October 2021 09: 51
      Quote: Lair
      it is completely unclear what three new frigates are mentioned in the article?

      perhaps the author has run into the future a little, it is three new frigates, according to my assumptions, that the Pacific Fleet will receive until 2030
    3. -7
      22 October 2021 13: 06
      Quote: Lair
      There is only one former BOD Marshal Shaposhnikov that has undergone modernization

      Tributs doesn't count?
      1. +3
        22 October 2021 16: 10
        Has he been upgraded?
        1. 0
          25 October 2021 08: 11
          Did he die ????
    4. +1
      22 October 2021 16: 51
      Sarich is safely written off on needles, according to the latest data, the Varyag goes there too.
      1. 0
        25 October 2021 08: 12
        Quote: Serge-667
        according to the latest data, the Varyag is also leaving there.

        Can you provide the data?
        1. -1
          25 October 2021 14: 59
          Contact the headquarters of the 36th division of the NK KTOF.
          1. -1
            26 October 2021 07: 39
            Those. your words
            Quote: Serge-667
            Varyag goes to the same place

            At the OBS level?
            1. -3
              26 October 2021 10: 12
              Again; contact 36th Division headquarters.
              If you think that grandmothers are sitting there, your right.
              1. -1
                26 October 2021 11: 14
                Quote: Serge-667
                Again; contact 36th Division headquarters.
                If you think that grandmothers are sitting there, your right.

                Does the headquarters of the 36th division give prereleases on the decommissioning of staff units for free access?
  5. +4
    22 October 2021 08: 27
    Is this the answer to the article that the women of Warsaw are absolutely defenseless in front of the new boats of the enemy? And this. The Japanese are being armed against the Chinese. Point.
  6. -15
    22 October 2021 09: 48
    Undoubtedly, anyone at least an adequate specialist will agree with the respected Roman Skomorokhov, the future belongs to the submarine, and the main thing is not the promoted VNEU, but missiles and stealth! We need more submarines and we don't need aircraft carriers!
    1. +8
      22 October 2021 11: 50
      Any self-respecting specialist will not even listen to your nonsense.
  7. -8
    22 October 2021 10: 22
    The entry into the Pacific Fleet of the first pr. 949, rearmed with "calibers", will radically change the situation. "Oscar" with 72 "calibers", comes from the Pacific Ocean and a distance of 1000 miles, where it is difficult to detect and even more to destroy a samurai anti-aircraft defense, can shoot both military bases and critical infrastructure. And if there are two of them, and if some of the "calibers" have special warheads, then it is better for the samurai to immediately go to do hara-kiri)))
    1. +12
      22 October 2021 10: 33
      Quote: TermNachTER
      "Oscar" with 72 "calibers", comes from the Pacific Ocean and a distance of 1000 miles, where it is difficult to detect and even more to destroy a samurai anti-aircraft defense, can shoot both military bases and critical infrastructure. And if there are two of them, and if some of the "calibers" have special warheads, then it is better for samurai to immediately go to do hara-kiri)))

      Well, my friend, cut the sturgeon, a maximum of 48 missiles will be at "Irkutsk". Moreover, according to the latest reports, only "Irkutsk" is being upgraded, the remaining 949A will undergo a restoration of technical readiness at best. If the ship was in the water all the time, then there is an effect of corrosion on the hull and outboard fittings. But in our country, due to the wild terms of repairs, "Irkutsk" was on the slipway for almost 20 years, where there were no influences other than dirt and dust before the actual start of work. Therefore, it is being modernized. Moreover, the time when he was on the shore will not be counted, there this moment was somehow smoothed out. And the rest of the loaves are maximum VTG and on needles. Project 949 / 949A is a highly specialized ship, it is already outdated, 949 years have passed since the adoption of the lead 40. The two-body architecture combined with the two-shaft is a dead end in terms of noise reduction up to modern requirements.
      1. -2
        22 October 2021 10: 56
        And 48 calibers, if some of them are with special warheads - is that not enough? About two-body and two-shaft, one can argue. There are both positive and negative points.
        1. 0
          22 October 2021 11: 09
          Quote: TermNachTER
          48 calibers, if some of them are with special warheads - is that not enough?

          Most likely there will be "Onyxes" and "Calibers". In what proportion it is up to the admirals to decide.
          1. -5
            22 October 2021 11: 20
            If the "baton" is in the configuration of striking ground targets, then the "onyx" will be the minimum for self-defense. But getting it 1000 miles off the Japanese coast is not easy. Taking into account how many nuclear power plants and other critical infrastructure facilities in Japan, 30 will be enough, subject to the use of special warheads. And etc. 949 will not be alone, others will also participate. "Caliber" can shoot pr. 636 and NK. There is also aviation and ground-based missile systems. So, in the case of a serious "hack" - samurai, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, will seem like a New Year's party, in the younger group of kindergarten)))
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 21: 57
              no one will dare to use nuclear weapons against the samurai. the more so the samurai do not.
              even such irresponsible countries as India and Pakistan cannot go for it)
              conventional weapons for limited purposes yes. Maybe.
              for example, the Japs land on 4 islands. what proportional answer can you give them?
              1. -2
                22 October 2021 22: 57
                The man who ordered the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima was neither foolish nor irresponsible. Although he had a very peculiar sense of humor.
            2. +1
              23 October 2021 01: 03
              But getting it 1000 miles off the Japanese coast is not easy.

              This is the only thing that this nuclear submarine can do, only you read what is Japan's PLO. And keep in mind that the total salvo of destroyers, frigates and corvettes of Japan exceeds ours by tens of times. Also, keep in mind that they have an overwhelming superiority in aviation.
              1. -4
                23 October 2021 11: 24
                PLO Japan will not be able to control the floor of the Pacific Ocean. Because no one knows when and where the "loaf" will emerge for a volley. Look on the map which part of the ocean needs to be controlled.
                1. +3
                  24 October 2021 21: 12
                  PLO Japan will not be able to control the floor of the Pacific

                  And they don’t need it, but they know the launch lines of our missiles better than we do. Let me remind you that Japan's PLO was created to counter the Soviet submarine fleet, which included more than 150 nuclear submarines alone, and was built very seriously. After the collapse of the USSR, the Japanese continued to improve and strengthen their PLO, and our fleet, including the Pacific Fleet, only degraded for 30 years.
                  The ASW forces include 70 Orion aircraft, capable of detecting all our boats, except for Ash, which are not on the Pacific Fleet and Boreyev. They also already have 33 Kawasaki P-1 aircraft, which surpasses even the American Poseidon PLO aircraft, capable of detecting all submarines, regardless of the noise level.
                  They also have 6 frigates, 29 destroyers, 8 URO destroyers, and 4 helicopter carriers. All these forces are combined into a single information system, and if any buoy, plane or ship detects our boat, everyone will know it.
                  These are very serious forces, against which our only loaf with Caliber has nothing to oppose.
                  1. -1
                    24 October 2021 21: 59
                    Which Soviet sea-based KR had a range of 2500 km?
                    1. +3
                      25 October 2021 04: 19
                      Do we have a quiz?
                      1. 0
                        25 October 2021 11: 40
                        No - this is a question for your approval. If you refute me with such arguments, do not consider it a work - name the Soviet sea-based CD with a flight range of 1300 miles.
              2. -4
                23 October 2021 16: 33
                Quote: ramzay21
                But getting it 1000 miles off the Japanese coast is not easy.

                This is the only thing that this nuclear submarine can do, only you read what is Japan's PLO. And keep in mind that the total salvo of destroyers, frigates and corvettes of Japan exceeds ours by tens of times. Also, keep in mind that they have an overwhelming superiority in aviation.

                Summarized volley of what, Ancient Harpoons? Anti-aircraft missiles? Maybe torpedoes? In order to implement this salvo, the Japanese fleet will need to approach ours at least at a distance of several tens of kilometers. The Japanese fleet does not have attack ships with analogues of Tomahawks or Calibers, they just have a bunch of ships with good air defense and PLO.Pro aviation is also not needed, the vast majority of their aircraft are ancient anti-submarine Orions, and the F-15 with Air-to-Air missiles. Of modern aircraft, there is only the F-35 squadron, and that is incomplete, since not so long ago one Penguin for some unknown reason, I decided to swim. In aviation, they also do not have tactical missiles to strike the coast. They have nothing to suppress our air defense and coastal defense systems. To implement Harpoons, they need to approach our fleet / coast at a distance of 100-150 km. And at this distance all aviation will already be shot down by our air defense, and the fleet has been sunk by our DBKs, which, by the way, are given a new missile with a range of 500+ km. Japanese fleet will not even be able to approach its Hokkaido, let alone to our territorial waters. And their aircraft comes under attack by Calibers at their airfields. This will be the same conflict when our ships, even from the raid, do not need to withdraw to destroy the Japanese fleet, since we completely destroy the fleet, aviation and half of the territory of Japan without leaving the cover of its air defense, anti-aircraft missile defense and anti-aircraft missile systems. I am already silent about the fact that within a few hours after the start of the conflict (if we consider that intelligence will sleep through all the preparations), the entire territory of Japan will be under the attacks of operational-tactical missiles of our long-range aviation, which will strike again from their own airspace.
                1. +2
                  24 October 2021 21: 56
                  These bravura speeches were already heard in 1904, but the Japanese fleet then looked at least equal to ours, the truth ended in 1905 with Port Arthur and Tsushima.
                  And now our Pacific Fleet is a fleet of a completely different level, it is approximately equal to the Vietnamese Navy and we are not in a position to resist either the 6th Fleet of the US Navy, or the MTR of Japan, or the Chinese Navy.
                  In order to be able to resist the Japanese, we need to have at least 30 frigates 22350 in the Pacific Fleet, 60 refined corvettes 20385, at least 12 Ash trees, three dozen diesel-electric submarines Lada with VNEU, 50 PLO aircraft similar to the American Poseidons, a couple of hundred Su- 30SM2, 50 Su-57 and at least 10 A-100 AWACS aircraft. Plus, sane amphibious forces, with several UDCs. We don't even have any of this in the project.
                  The Japanese navy does not have attack ships with analogs of Tomahawks or Calibers, they just have a bunch of ships with good air defense and anti-aircraft missile defense. Aviation is also not needed, the vast majority of their aircraft are ancient anti-submarine Orions, and F-15s with Air-to-Air missiles

                  The Japanese fleet has only 8 URO destroyers, analogues of Arleigh-Burk, with 91-slot Mk-90 UPV, in which you can put Tomahawks, and no one knows if they are there or not. And 4 of their helicopter carriers and 29 destroyers are also equipped with exactly such UPVs.
                  As for their ASW aircraft, in addition to 70 old Orions, which are nevertheless capable of detecting all submarines of our Pacific Fleet, except for Boreyevs, they also have 33 modern Kawasaki P-1 ASW aircraft capable of detecting everything. These aircraft are sufficient to provide reliable PLO.
                  They have nothing to suppress our air defense and coastal defense systems.

                  They have F-35s, which are very well suited for destroying our air defense and coastal defense systems, and the worst thing is that our S-300 and S-400 will be able to detect the F-35 at a distance of 50 km at best, and they are not the distance won't fit.
                  In addition, they can load Tomahawks into their UPVs and launch 500 missiles from a distance of 1500 km, no air defense system is capable of repelling such a launch, and we have neither the strength nor the means to detect Japanese destroyers at such a distance from the coast.

                  the entire territory of Japan will be under the blows of our long-range aviation tactical missiles, which will strike again from their own airspace.

                  There are so few aircraft left in our long-range aviation that it will not even be able to concentrate for strikes against Japan. Strikes against spirits that do not have air defense look beautiful, but strikes against a country that has powerful air defense, while the Japanese have powerful ones, are doubtful.
                  The Americans will immediately notice the activity of our aviation and put it under control, informing the Japanese about it, the Japanese will raise AWACS aircraft and will also control our airspace, simultaneously raising the F-35 to intercept.
                  1. 0
                    27 October 2021 12: 47
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    These bravura speeches were already heard in 1904, but the Japanese fleet then looked at least equal to ours, the truth ended in 1905 with Port Arthur and Tsushima.
                    And now our Pacific Fleet is a fleet of a completely different level, it is approximately equal to the Vietnamese Navy and we are not in a position to resist either the 6th Fleet of the US Navy, or the MTR of Japan, or the Chinese Navy.
                    In order to be able to resist the Japanese, we need to have at least 30 frigates 22350 in the Pacific Fleet, 60 refined corvettes 20385, at least 12 Ash trees, three dozen diesel-electric submarines Lada with VNEU, 50 PLO aircraft similar to the American Poseidons, a couple of hundred Su- 30SM2, 50 Su-57 and at least 10 A-100 AWACS aircraft. Plus, sane amphibious forces, with several UDCs. We don't even have any of this in the project.
                    The Japanese navy does not have attack ships with analogs of Tomahawks or Calibers, they just have a bunch of ships with good air defense and anti-aircraft missile defense. Aviation is also not needed, the vast majority of their aircraft are ancient anti-submarine Orions, and F-15s with Air-to-Air missiles

                    The Japanese fleet has only 8 URO destroyers, analogues of Arleigh-Burk, with 91-slot Mk-90 UPV, in which you can put Tomahawks, and no one knows if they are there or not. And 4 of their helicopter carriers and 29 destroyers are also equipped with exactly such UPVs.
                    As for their ASW aircraft, in addition to 70 old Orions, which are nevertheless capable of detecting all submarines of our Pacific Fleet, except for Boreyevs, they also have 33 modern Kawasaki P-1 ASW aircraft capable of detecting everything. These aircraft are sufficient to provide reliable PLO.
                    They have nothing to suppress our air defense and coastal defense systems.

                    They have F-35s, which are very well suited for destroying our air defense and coastal defense systems, and the worst thing is that our S-300 and S-400 will be able to detect the F-35 at a distance of 50 km at best, and they are not the distance won't fit.
                    In addition, they can load Tomahawks into their UPVs and launch 500 missiles from a distance of 1500 km, no air defense system is capable of repelling such a launch, and we have neither the strength nor the means to detect Japanese destroyers at such a distance from the coast.

                    the entire territory of Japan will be under the blows of our long-range aviation tactical missiles, which will strike again from their own airspace.

                    There are so few aircraft left in our long-range aviation that it will not even be able to concentrate for strikes against Japan. Strikes against spirits that do not have air defense look beautiful, but strikes against a country that has powerful air defense, while the Japanese have powerful ones, are doubtful.
                    The Americans will immediately notice the activity of our aviation and put it under control, informing the Japanese about it, the Japanese will raise AWACS aircraft and will also control our airspace, simultaneously raising the F-35 to intercept.

                    Everyone knows that the Japanese do not and cannot have Tomahawks. The only country with which the Americans have shared them is Great Britain, their full-fledged ally, the other allies are not worthy of this, since the Americans only need their territory from them for their bases. the moment to have such missiles for the Japanese is prohibited by the constitution. And no, they cannot change it. In any case, while ordinary Japanese are well-fed and satisfied. Well, a well-fed and contented person will not change their usual life for privation and war. And, accordingly, they will not support the government, which So while this is all from the realm of fantasy. And we already have it. And you don't need to prepare for the past wars and remember Tsushima. Then Japan was a giant Empire with vast territories and the strongest fleet. And we had a pitiful handful of troops, since we lost the war not only at sea, but also on land. Even the Trans-Siberian Railway, launched on time a year earlier, could have settled the issue in our favor. the transfer of troops in those days took months, but now it is only a few hours.
                2. -2
                  24 October 2021 22: 02
                  Taking into account the fact that Japan's air defense is focused on repelling a strike from the north and east, it is quite possible that there will be no one at all to strike from the west at a low altitude.
                  1. +3
                    25 October 2021 03: 08
                    In the Japanese headquarters, they are not fools at all and are always ready to fend off a threat from any direction.
                    In addition to 70 Orions and 33 Kawasaki of them, there are 4 modern AWACS aircraft based on B-767 and 17 Hokkaevs, this is enough to control the entire coast of Japan.
                    For comparison, for the entire Pacific Fleet, which is supposed to protect the coastline ten times longer than the coastline of Japan, there are only 3 Il-38Ns, not a single modern PLO aircraft, not a single AWACS aircraft and not a single reconnaissance aircraft.
                    1. -2
                      25 October 2021 11: 42
                      I didn’t say that they couldn’t find it. I was talking about - what will they shoot down with? Massive raid of low-altitude, small-sized RCs.
                      1. +4
                        25 October 2021 13: 13
                        UR explosives from a fighter.

                        But in fact, everything is simpler. Having such anti-submarine forces as Japan has, you don't have to take a steam bath at all, but simply destroy the carrier.
                      2. -3
                        25 October 2021 18: 00
                        So yes))) having such excellent nuclear submarines, like those of mattress makers, you can not take a steam bath - they will destroy themselves)))) I think with Japanese submarines there will be somewhere as well)))
                      3. 0
                        26 October 2021 08: 11
                        I didn’t say that they couldn’t find it. I was talking about - what will they shoot down with? Massive raid of low-altitude, small-sized RCs.

                        Japan has a highly developed and effective air defense system. It is operated by one of the world's best automated control systems and relies on numerous radar posts operating around the clock, providing a multiple overlap radar field. Interception of air targets on long approaches is entrusted to a solid fleet of modern fighters, and a powerful ground-based air defense system, including Patriot long-range air defense systems, Type 03 medium-range air defense systems, and Type 81 and Type 11 short-range air defense systems, protects the near lines.
                        They also have a naval air defense component, consisting of 29 destroyers and 8 URO destroyers. Also, I repeat, they have 4 E-767 AWACS and 17 Hokkaevs, all of which are combined into a single information exchange system.

                        Everything will look something like this.
                        The Japanese will be aware of all the movements of our fleet and aviation, the Americans will share intelligence with them, who are aware of which ship went where, with what weapons on board, and who is the captain of this ship. If Calibers are loaded onto nuclear submarines and ships, American nuclear submarines and Japanese PLO aircraft will keep track of them with weapons.
                        In the patrol area of ​​our forces, the Japanese will deploy URO destroyers, patrol aircraft and AWACS aircraft, and will track the carriers. In the event of a missile launch, the carrier will be immediately attacked, and the released missiles will track the AWACS aircraft and direct fighters with explosive missiles at them, at the same time the air defense of the URO destroyers will enter into action, the anti-aircraft missiles of which will again direct the AWACS aircraft. Then the Patriot air defense system will enter into action, the missiles of which will also be guided by AWACS aircraft, as well as ground radars. The remaining missiles will be dealt with by medium and short-range air defense systems.

                        At this time, our defenseless ship or nuclear submarine will sink together with the crew, the stock of un-fired missiles, without causing serious damage to the enemy. This is exactly what Klimov and Timokhin are talking about, and the balance of power for us is much worse than in 1905.
                      4. 0
                        26 October 2021 11: 37
                        Even mattress mats cannot keep a bunch of planes in the air and a bunch of ships in the sea, for a number of reasons. The Pacific Ocean is very large - and this is a huge plus for the nuclear submarine. Timokhin and Klimov are famous storytellers and vsepalschiki who cleverly juggle science-like figures))) the territory of Japan is small, the saturation of critically important infrastructure elements (nuclear power plants, hazardous industries, dams, etc.) is prohibitive, you cannot put an air defense system near each object and it is not a fact that he will intercept a "caliber" going at an extremely low altitude.
                      5. 0
                        30 October 2021 19: 46
                        There is such a thing as intelligence. We have only two bases in the Pacific Fleet, and the Americans track them with different reconnaissance means, and therefore they know which nuclear submarine is going to sea, which weapons are loaded, and they know who the commander is. When our nuclear submarines leave, American nuclear submarines and Japanese Soryu are waiting for it, and given the almost complete absence of PLOs at the Pacific Fleet, they remain undetected and begin tracking our nuclear submarines. In case of loss of contact, their PLO planes come to their aid. Destroyers can also be connected to such tracking. At the same time, the crew of our nuclear submarine in most cases only guesses that it is under observation, the noise levels of our loaf and Virginias, not to mention Sorya, are very different, as well as the capabilities of the GAS, therefore, no one will give our nuclear submarine to the launch line unnoticed, it is a giveaway to play no one will either. In the event of the launch of the first missiles, our boat will be immediately destroyed, and information about the launch of missiles, which will be intercepted, will be transmitted to the air defense posts.
                        Patrol aircraft, AWACS aircraft patrol in any case, like the destroyers and frigates of the MTR of Japan.
                        In terms of saturation with radar detection and air defense systems, Japan occupies one of the first places in the world, and yes, all serious objects they have are covered with air defense systems, this is not for the barmaley without air defense in Syria to shmish.
                      6. 0
                        30 October 2021 20: 06
                        A whole group of ships and aircraft are engaged in the withdrawal of nuclear submarines into the sea, including the Varshavyanka diesel-electric submarines, which in terms of noise may be slightly worse than the Soryu, but definitely better than the Virginia. Although there are not many "virginias", so it could very well be "moose". So everything is not so bad for the Russians and not so good for the enemy. And then, in the ocean, at great depths, there can be a lot of options.
                      7. 0
                        31 October 2021 04: 55
                        So it was when the USSR was, a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since that time.
                        Let's start with aviation. There are 3 Il-38Ns left at the Pacific Fleet, they are not in Kamchatka, but in Vladivostok, and their equipment does not allow detecting either Virginia or Sorya. The PLO Mi-14 helicopters were written off long ago.

                        Of the surface ships in Vladivostok, there are 4 IPC Albatros without upgrades, which are not like Virginia and Soryu, they will not be able to detect Salmon, and there is one corvette 20385, which in theory can detect something, but not Virginia at low speed and do not litter.

                        Submarines. Diesel-electric submarine Varshavyanka has long been outdated and can oppose something to Salmon, in the battle against Virginia and Soryu there is no chance. And most importantly, these boats are in Vladivostok. Of the nuclear submarines capable of withdrawing SSBNs or a loaf, there is only Shuka-B Kuzbass, but it will not be able to detect either Virginia or Soryu. Good news soon M. Ash will be at the Pacific Fleet.

                        SSBN base SSBNs provide 4 Albatrosses and one corvette 20385, plus one Pike B and soon one Ash M. Such forces are virtually unable to provide SSBN base and ensure a safe exit SSBNs against modern boats.

                        To support the ASW of our bases and the withdrawal of SSBNs, nuclear submarines and surface ships to the BS, as well as to protect the patrol areas at the Pacific Fleet, at least 40 PLO aircraft are needed, analogues of American Poseidons, for which the low noise of the boat is not important, 10 AWACS A-100 aircraft, 40-50 refined corvettes 20385 and 20 frigates 22350, plus 20 diesel-electric submarines Lada with VNEU and 10 torpedo nuclear submarines, plus at least the Su-30SM2 air division.
      2. +3
        22 October 2021 22: 49
        I think he's right. TPK will be shoved into the disassembled launchers of Granites, Onyxes by two, Calibers by three. UKSK a la councilIk.
    2. +3
      22 October 2021 22: 48
      And how many "Soryu" and "Taigei" will he have to sink before leaving Avacha Bay?
  8. +7
    22 October 2021 10: 29
    It smells of a custom-made little piece .... The difference between Varshavyanka and Soryu is only in VNEU! Come on! The element base and equipment in Japan is very advanced, but we are rather weak with this, and I think the Americans have helped. Plus the overwhelming superiority in aviation and PLO ships, and the United States will help with their capabilities. A very difficult situation for us at the Pacific Fleet. And if you look at the capabilities of Japan, then they are now not enough for countering or offensive operations against China, but quite enough for the return of the disputed islands (basing aviation on the mainland, the proximity of bases for the fleet, infrastructure, support of the world community, the insignificance of the conflict for the use of nuclear weapons, etc. ). All this is not in the article))) ZATO praises of the submarine design 40 years ago by definition inferior to the Japanese.
  9. +5
    22 October 2021 10: 33
    I, of course, am not an expert in shipbuilding.
    But if we get good nuclear reactors - small-sized, then why not "build" them into our electric, not diesel, submarines? Remove the diesel engine, increase the battery capacity. batteries and "insert" add. weapons - missile silos. Let the reactor be of relatively low power - but it will be able to constantly charge the batteries and, thereby, provide the electric motors and other current electrical needs ...
    And it will really be an air-independent power plant!
    Constant speed under water will be lower than on a "pure" nuclear submarine. But nothing prevents short-term acceleration in forced mode. And the "waiting-sneaking" move may not be high. In this case, recharging can also be carried out. The noise level in comparison with the nuclear submarine will be reduced due to the significantly reduced power of the nuclear power plant.
    The displacement of such submarines should not differ significantly from diesel ones - due to the rejection of such archaic propellers.
    These should be ideal submarines for the protection of coastal (in the area of ​​several thousand km) territories.
    Unlike any supposedly "air-independent" Western / Japanese idiots.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 14: 12
      Dollezhal's eggs?
    2. 0
      22 October 2021 15: 06
      This approach has been discussed for a long time, and it seems reasonable to me.
    3. -1
      22 October 2021 17: 09
      But if we get good nuclear reactors - small-sized ...


      So far, we have not been able to build them. There is an "order" for them. And what will happen at the exit, time will tell.
      In any case, a nuclear reactor is additional cooling systems, additional circulation pumps, a lot of additional units that reduce noise, increase the complexity of operation and entail a lot of problems.
      It is easier and more profitable to deal with the reduction of diesel noise and modernization of the battery.
  10. +2
    22 October 2021 11: 03
    It is not realistic to compete with the Japanese fleet, they have only one, but we have 4. Tactical nuclear weapons, ready for use, both technically and in terms of military-political will - this is quite a sufficient argument and the Japanese fleet will not sail in our direction even into dream. It is important to convey to the partners that if anything, we will apply it, but in ports and bases, in groups, and not in cities, of course, we are not Americans, but we will definitely apply. Guaranteed. And then all this floating variety will end, along with the crews, materiel, and so on. They will not float. As for the Pacific Fleet, one of its most important tasks is to ensure the stability of our strategic forces. This task will be more difficult. Because there are no japs, but the Americans appear and our Borei must be resistant to shoot in the states, in which case. To date, this task has not been completely solved, new ships with anti-submarine capabilities, submarine submarines and MAPLs, and naval aviation are needed. And this must be purchased and put into service.
  11. +4
    22 October 2021 11: 11
    > we need a modern submarine with VNEU.

    And we need it the day before yesterday. I will note, based on a recent article, that the situation with torpedoes, acoustics and counter-torpedoes is terrible, i.e. we cannot consider the boat in isolation from this. At the moment, there is a noticeable gap in quantity and quality, but we are still resolving the gap.
  12. -1
    22 October 2021 11: 41
    knn54 (Nikolay), 202% right about minesweepers and naval aviation, alas ...
    In the East, they fight not only with damask steel, but also with gold. Dear Bashkirkhan wrote everything correctly about the basis of the SVOP (Specialized Screw Processing Production) "Zvezdochka" machines - Japan and Czechoslovakia. Japan needs liquefied gas? Undoubtedly! The Russian Federation has it, in Yamal! Offer Japanese private companies, and on the sweetest terms, with a financial investment in the development of production and delivery of LNG by sea, to increase their share in the shares of our joint-stock companies, such as subsidiaries of Gazprom and Novatek. There will be a scandal in the Japanese media, but then, later, and not in all, as was the case with the machines in the last century for "Zvezdochka" ... Thank you very much Roman for the photo (last in the article) of your dear "Zvezdochka". In the background I recognized Kaluga. And what kind of steamer of India is in the foreground - I don't remember. Definitely not killed in the port of Mumbai "Sindurakshak" - he had a different shark on his nose and the name of the boat on the yellow stripe ...
  13. +4
    22 October 2021 12: 03
    Here and from 636 there is also a "question for iron" - do all Varshavyank women have calibers? Infa came across that not all.
    1. +3
      22 October 2021 16: 09
      New 6363 - everything.
      Old 877 - none
  14. +7
    22 October 2021 12: 08
    Hooray. Hooray. Hooray.
    Some sound the alarm about the toothlessness of the torpedo anti-submarine (and anti-torpedo) weapons, the deaf-blindness of the search equipment.
    The second - "Hurray, we'll throw in calibers," as I understand it, come to a point of controversy, and the Zircons will be remembered.
    I would like to believe the second, but life experience tells me to listen to the first.
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 17: 13
      but the truth is most likely somewhere in the middle, closer to the second, there are still calibers
  15. +3
    22 October 2021 16: 09
    What a mess, huh ...
  16. -2
    22 October 2021 17: 16
    And why, when comparing our fleet, they always take into account that the ships are under repair, and in the Japanese fleet they give the total number of ships, only the Russian fleet is repaired ships?
  17. +2
    22 October 2021 18: 25
    the other day there was an article where a Warsaw woman was butchered like a god a tortoise and where in an article about torpedoes and counter-torpedoes? well, yes, of course we will shower all the calibers, the author apparently reads other people's articles poorly
  18. -1
    22 October 2021 19: 18
    2 aircraft carriers, 2 helicopter carriers, 37 destroyers, 21 submarines, 3 landing dock ships.
    But most of these destroyers are like our frigates, if not corvettes.
    1. 0
      23 October 2021 00: 22
      Quote: Dart2027
      But most of these destroyers are like our frigates, if not corvettes.

      If. No. In 1993, the Maritime Self-Defense Forces received the destroyer URO "Congo", which is an analogue of the American destroyer URO of the "Arleigh Burke" type. In 1998, the Maritime Self-Defense Forces already had four such destroyers. The Atago-class destroyers (2 units), which entered service in 2007 and 2008, are a further development of the Congo-class destroyers and are equipped with the updated Aegis BIUS (AWS Baseline 7). On March 19, 2020, at the Japan Marine United shipyard in Yokohama, the ceremony of introducing the destroyer Maya (pr. 27DDG) into the Japanese Navy took place - the first Japanese ship armed with SM-3 Block IIA anti-missile missiles, with an improved Aegis system (AWS Baseline 9C) and AN / SPY-7.19 radar On March 2021, XNUMX, the second Maya-class destroyer Haguro entered service. Unfortunately, we have nothing of the kind. request
      1. -1
        23 October 2021 06: 41
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        If.

        I did not say that they do not have any at all, but most of the 37 are not destroyers.
      2. 0
        23 October 2021 16: 40
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        Quote: Dart2027
        But most of these destroyers are like our frigates, if not corvettes.

        If. No. In 1993, the Maritime Self-Defense Forces received the destroyer URO "Congo", which is an analogue of the American destroyer URO of the "Arleigh Burke" type. In 1998, the Maritime Self-Defense Forces already had four such destroyers. The Atago-class destroyers (2 units), which entered service in 2007 and 2008, are a further development of the Congo-class destroyers and are equipped with the updated Aegis BIUS (AWS Baseline 7). On March 19, 2020, at the Japan Marine United shipyard in Yokohama, the ceremony of introducing the destroyer Maya (pr. 27DDG) into the Japanese Navy took place - the first Japanese ship armed with SM-3 Block IIA anti-missile missiles, with an improved Aegis system (AWS Baseline 9C) and AN / SPY-7.19 radar On March 2021, XNUMX, the second Maya-class destroyer Haguro entered service. Unfortunately, we have nothing of the kind. request

        They are far from being analogues of Burke, since they carry only anti-aircraft missiles in their cells. They have nothing to attack with. The entire Japanese fleet is a good air defense of their country, and of American military bases, of course.
        1. +2
          24 October 2021 11: 14
          Quote: Xscorpion
          They are far from being Burke's counterparts, since they carry only anti-aircraft missiles in their cells.

          Until recently, there were no aircraft carriers in Japan either. It doesn't take long to load ship-to-ground missiles onto a finished ship. And they are all analogous, since they are equipped with the Aegis system and anti-missiles.
          1. 0
            27 October 2021 12: 38
            Quote: zyablik.olga
            Quote: Xscorpion
            They are far from being Burke's counterparts, since they carry only anti-aircraft missiles in their cells.

            Until recently, there were no aircraft carriers in Japan either. It doesn't take long to load ship-to-ground missiles onto a finished ship. And they are all analogous, since they are equipped with the Aegis system and anti-missiles.

            Only they do not have such missiles, and they will not be in the near future. So this is all for a long time and for a very long time. At the moment, their Constitution does not allow it. Yes, they can rewrite. Only hardly at the present time. The Japanese government is not alone. people, to come to an agreement will have to enlist the support of the people. And a well-fed people who live are unlikely to want to vote for the Government, which, instead of the usual well-fed life, will offer them a war. So this is not a matter for a year or two. Until the Japanese government even stutters about this, since it understands that in this case it will not sit in its chairs for a long time. that they are not prohibited from having such missiles, they have nowhere to get them. The Americans are very reluctant to share their Tomahawks, the only country with whom they have shared is Great Britain, their full-fledged ally. The rest of NATO does not have such a privilege. And even more so, Japan does not, from which the Americans only need their territory for air bases, to control Korea, China and Russia.
            1. +2
              29 October 2021 15: 30
              Quote: Xscorpion
              Only they do not have such missiles, and will not be in the near future.

              Yeah, SM-2 and SM-3 they also did not have, as well as VTOL aircraft.
              Quote: Xscorpion
              Americans are very reluctant to share their Tomahawks

              Yeah, just like the SM-2, SM-3 and F-35B missiles.
  19. +1
    22 October 2021 19: 44
    The war with Japan, if it happens, will begin in the traditional Japanese way - with a Japanese strike on our bases. The strike will be delivered primarily by aircraft. Hence, two conclusions:
    1. First of all, aviation is needed to fight Japan.
    2. It is better to place the strike forces outside the range of the Japanese aviation.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 22: 05
      the Chinese are testing a rocket that has flown around the globe. do you think if China did Japan will not be able to? It's just that China now has a priority in new weapons, while Japan does not. but if the Japanese are awakened, they will overtake both China and us together in five years. it is a very stubborn nation and very capable.
  20. -1
    23 October 2021 04: 02
    Strategic missile cruisers are not included in this list


    In this first part is implicit the answer to the second part.

    have to answer. And here there are two options: either in quantity, building ships that can neutralize the strength of the Japanese fleet, or in quality, due to technologies that will provide Russian boats with an advantage over the enemy and weapons, the attacks of which the enemy cannot parry.


    Russia answered to it. Even the Soviet Union answered to it at the time. And answered to it by the way of the quality, not the quantity. It is wrong to exclude from the count of the Pacific Fleet the SLBMs because they are just the quality answer that you are finding. The Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy is not a conventional force, like the Japanese Navy. The Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy is a nuclear force, and as a nuclear force, in overall terms is significantly superior to the Japanese Navy. Just by quality not by quantity. It is wrong to exclude from the count the main armament of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy designed, when the fleet has been around their SLBMs.

    Japan would be completely wrong if they think they would face only the conventional force of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy. This fleet is a nuclear force designed around its nuclear component. And who attacks a nuclear force like the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy must be ready for a nuclear answer.

    Also is wrong to think that Japan is an independent country finding expansion. No, Japan is not independent, Japan remains invaded in 2021 since 1945, and there is not data for the end of the occupation. Japan will do nothing out of the orders of the United States. The Japanese Navy is just a complement of the United States Navy, and is to be used in the interests of the United States, for the purpose for which was designed, that is the support and the escort of the United States Navy.

    South Korea same. Neither in South Korea there is any resistance to the occupation by the United States, just like in Japan. This is why, after the Anglo world plus Israel, Japan and south Korea are the most reliable followers of the United States. But it is necessary to understand it well, Japan and south Korea are unconditional followers, not leaders. The United States are not who support the ambitions of Japan or South Korea. Japan and South Korea are who support the ambitions of the United States.
    1. +1
      23 October 2021 06: 12
      Well, at least someone thinks normally.
      No one in their right mind would attack a nuclear power. This is suicide.
  21. 0
    9 December 2021 21: 38
    If you study the opinions of many experts, the "Varshavyanka" in their combat characteristics surpass all diesel-electric boats in service with the countries of the region.

    Thank you, neighing.
    "Varshavyanka" dives a little deeper than, for example, the Japanese "Soryu", and its speed is higher, either above water or underwater.

    project 636 - Operating depth 240 m
    t. Soryu - Working immersion depth 275 m
    20 meters is nothing at all. It is appropriate here to compare torpedo weapon systems and their capabilities.

    We will not even compare the speed of the underwater course, because Warsaw will be able to hold its 20 knots for an hour, then it will be necessary to surrender and Sorya - to put it mildly, A LITTLE longer. But the point is not in the maximum underwater speed, no one is going to arrange Formula 1 under water, but in the most effective one, which will allow for covert movement under water, with the optimal ratio: its own noise - the capabilities of the GAC. Illumination of the underwater environment, detection and covert tracking of targets, combined with high maneuverability and the ability to quickly take a firing position, in this regard, Project 636 hopelessly lags behind Soryu. And this is quite obvious, in view of the different hull system, different capabilities of power plants and GAK.
  22. 0
    15 December 2021 19: 08
    Well Roman!
    Klimov and Timokhin will come and criticize everything.
    1. 0
      24 December 2021 22: 11
      The correct move is underwater, and in what it is correct, we look at project 636
      Displacement (surface / underwater) 2 t / 350 t
      subtract the difference we get 1600t, that's 40%, forty percent Karl !!!
      that is, a boat carries 1600 tons of water across the ocean, but boats are not built for this. Due to the fact that the Central Design Bureau of Marine Engineering "Rubin" pumped so much water into the boat, it had to be 10m in diameter, the wetted surface of the hull naturally increased, and not much linearly (school geometry course 5th grade), and this hull wetted with water, it is also customary to call it light, but in fact it is heavy because it closes the boat from all sides, like a nesting doll, and it is the same steel and pulls the boat to the bottom, and its negative buoyancy has to be compensated for by an increase in the buoyancy of a strong hull, plus an even strong hull is divided by bulkheads into many compartments (many cables and pipelines pass through the bulkheads, which greatly complicates the design and further operation), in general, adding all the circumstances, it turns out that batteries for a boat are such dimensions are very small and therefore they are enough for 400 miles, "correct course" at a speed of 1.7 knots (3 km per hour,on foot faster) and the ammunition load is only 18 torpedoes (or missiles), that is, there is 219 tons of displacement per weapon unit. of which 88t is water.