Should I say thank you to Churchill for the super battleships?

120

This material will be devoted not so much to battleships as to their guns. Indeed, studying the actions of cruisers, these eternal companions and opponents of battleships, one involuntarily begins to think about the question: why is this all?

The era of battleships... Huge super-dreadnoughts, armed with no less huge guns capable of smashing a destroyer-type ship to pieces.



When the era of battleships ended, all lovers of the marine theme know. It ended on April 7, 1945, when a plume of smoke rose into the sky to a height of about 6 km, marking the end of the Yamato, a Japanese super battleship armed with nine 460 mm caliber guns.


The most interesting in stories "Yamato" is that he didn't fight his classmates. The superlinkor generally took part in one battle, in the Sibuyan Sea, and did not prove itself in any way. And the last trip of the Yamato became an extreme point for the deck aviation, which destroyed the superlinkor at the cost of losing 5 aircraft.

After that, not a single country in the world came up with the idea of ​​​​building battleships and dreadnoughts with the prefixes "over" and "super".

And, probably, a smaller number of readers know the date of the beginning of the era of dreadnought battleships. She, the date, is highly controversial. For the starting point, you can take the laying or launching of the first Queen Elizabeth superdreadnought, for example. But I would prefer another date: October 23, 1911. It was on this day that British Prime Minister Herbert Henry Asquith replaced the First Lord of the Admiralty (analogous to the Secretary of the Navy) Reginald McKenna to Winston Churchill.


It was Churchill who came up with the idea of ​​increasing the main caliber of battleships to 381 mm. Sir Winston was well aware that the German guns had certain advantages over the British and therefore considered it necessary to compensate for this lag with an increase in caliber and range.

And yes, through the efforts of Churchill, the first British (and the first in the world) superdreadnought "Queen Elizabeth" was laid down, a ship of a huge displacement (33 tons) for those times and a very decent speed (000 knots).


But the main difference from the ships of that time was the artillery of the main caliber. The Queen Elizabeth carried eight 381 mm guns in four turrets. These barrels threw projectiles at a distance of up to 21 km with simply excellent accuracy.

The idea of ​​installing large-caliber guns on ships infected the entire maritime world. Already no one in the shipbuilding powers wanted to build battleships with a main caliber of 305 mm. It was old and out of date.

All countries in the world (who could afford this) wanted something like the Queen Elizabeth, a ship capable of inflicting fatal damage on any battleship or dreadnought due to its guns or, with a clear advantage of the enemy, use its speed in order to calmly get away from pursuit.

The British entered World War I with five Queen Elizabeth-class battleships, and five more battleships of the next Rivege class were built while the war was in full swing.

The eternal rivals of the British, the Germans, also did not sit idly by. They built a series of Baden-class battleships, their own superdreadnoughts of somewhat smaller displacement (32 tons) and speed (000 knots), also armed with eight 22-mm guns.


The German guns fired further than the British, at 37 km.

This race gave birth to another strange class of artillery ships - battlecruisers. Armed with the "battleship" caliber of 305-mm, British ships of the "Invisible" type had greater speed. In response, the Germans built their battlecruiser Von Der Tann, armed with 281 mm guns, but heavily armored. The quintessence of the class was the German Derflinger, the best representative of this class of ships.

Should I say thank you to Churchill for the super battleships?

But the battlecruisers did not survive the First World War and remained only in the British navy.

On the wave of battleship mania, the British came up with the idea of ​​another class of ships. They were called very funny: "big light cruisers." A sort of "fat-free" battlecruisers: the size of a battlecruiser, fast, practically unarmored and with powerful artillery.

Three such ships were built. The names of those who know will cause smiles. These are Furies, Korejges and Glories.

Those who do not fully know will now say: what does aircraft carriers have to do with it? Yes, despite the fact that these ships became aircraft carriers after the First World War, and they got into service precisely as “large light cruisers”. The Korages and Glories were armed with four 381mm guns in two turrets, while the Furies, even worse, were armed with two 457mm guns and four 140mm guns.


Koreyges. Indeed, it is not very intelligible.

At the same time, almost without armor, when compared with the ships of the senior classes. Considering that the two single-gun turrets of the Furies could fire once a minute each, the broadside was small. And if we talk about the fight on the retreat or vice versa, catching up with someone, given the need for shooting, everything generally looked sad.


Furies Tower

The conversion to aircraft carriers turned out to be very logical. A large caliber of guns did not always make sense if there were few trunks. Moreover, the class of monitors already existed, but the monitors were much more heavily armored.


British monitor "Erebus"

The third in the caliber race were the Americans. Starting new projects almost in parallel with the British, the Americans chose a slightly different path for the development of ships.

In 1911, almost simultaneously with their colleagues, the Americans laid down, and already in 1914 put into operation the Texas and New York, battleships of a new generation. The displacement of the ships was 28 tons, the speed was 400 knots, and the armament consisted of 21 10-mm guns in five turrets and 356 21-mm guns.


The idea of ​​a superdreadnought, bristling with trunks, was to the taste in the USA, and then battleships of the Nevada type followed, also armed with 10 356-mm guns, but in four towers.


By the way, the Americans were the first to start using three-gun turrets. The Nevada had two three-gun turrets and two two-gun turrets.

From here to four towers with three guns each was one step, and the Americans made it by 1916, on battleships of the "Pennsylvania" class.


The armament of these ships consisted of 12 356-mm guns.


And such battleships, having got a taste, the Americans made seven pieces.

The French, who found themselves in the role of catch-up, created their superdreadnoughts of the Brittany class.


These were ships with a displacement somewhat smaller than their classmates, about 25 tons. Travel speed is about 000 knots. The armament consisted of 20 10-mm guns in five turrets and 340 22-mm guns.

The Italians, who had even worse money than the French, responded by building two battleships of the Andrea Doria class.


The displacement of these ships was 22 tons, the speed was 900 knots, and the armament initially consisted of 21 13-mm guns, which were replaced with 305-mm guns during modernization. In general, 320 mm were obtained by boring 320 mm barrels, so in fact - a way out for the poor.

Japan also acquired its own superdreadnoughts. On the basis of the battle cruiser Congo, developed by the British, two battleships of the Fuso class were completed in 1916.


Displacement 34 tons, speed 700 knots, armament consisted of 24,7 British-made 12-mm guns and 356 14-mm guns.

By the end of the First World War, the class of superdreadnoughts was finally formed. In fact, all the world's maritime powers had superdreadnoughts in their composition, and more precisely, those countries that had such ships in the fleet were maritime powers.

Things went so that it was necessary to introduce restrictions. Immediately after the end of the First World War and the division, the winners, Great Britain and the United States, it was proposed to everyone else to limit the number of battleships in the fleets.

In February 1922, as part of the Treaty on the Limitation of Naval Armaments, the five leading maritime powers, Great Britain, the United States, France, Japan and Italy, signed up to observe the following proportions in the size of battle fleets:

USA: England: Japan: France: Italy - 5:5:3:1,75:1,75.

The total tonnage of battleships of the participating countries, which could be subject to replacement (due to loss or obsolescence of ships), should not exceed: for the USA and England - 525 tons, for Japan - 000 tons, for France and Italy - 315 tons each .

In addition to observing the size of the tonnage, the parties also pledged not to build themselves and not to order third parties (I wonder where they would get them) battleships with a displacement of more than 35 tons and not to arm them with guns larger than 000 mm.

Great Britain suffered the most from the treaty, which usually preached the principle of having as many ships as the combined fleet of the other two naval powers has.


Germany was not included in this treaty. It is quite natural, since the Versailles Treaty was a priority for the Germans, according to which Germany practically could not have a fleet at all. Therefore, as soon as Hitler gave a damn about the Treaty of Versailles, Bismarck and Tirpitz were built, which were completely not provided for by the agreements.

Patriotically, a few words can be said about Russia.

Russia was also not included in the agreements, therefore, theoretically, it could do what it wanted. However, “willing” and “being able” are completely different things. Therefore, Russia did not get into the race of superdreadnoughts. It did not qualify because the newest Russian ships of the Sevastopol and Empress Maria types were armed with 305-mm guns, which was the height of the capabilities for the domestic military industry. But these ships were really inferior to ships with 356-mm and 381-mm artillery.


Therefore, the Naval Ministry decided to increase the caliber of the guns, and then (why not?) And lay down new ships with larger caliber artillery. And on December 19, 1913, four battlecruisers of the Borodino type were laid down with a total displacement of 36 tons, armed with 646 guns of 12-mm caliber each.

But the revolution of 1917 made its changes and Soviet Russia could not complete the construction of battlecruisers. The 406-mm gun, copied from the product of the British company Vickers, also remained in the project.

Meanwhile, in Japan, not entirely friendly to Russia, in 1917 the Nagato battleship, armed with eight 410-mm guns, went into operation ...


In general, everyone who could only set up expensive and beautiful toys. Naturally, in the interval between the First and Second World Wars, everyone was quietly building superships.

The States built the North Carolinas and South Dakotas with nine 406-mm guns, the Germans Bismarck and Tirpitz with eight 381-mm guns, the British Duke of York with ten 356-mm guns, the French built the Richelieu " with eight 381-mm guns, the Italians - "Littorio" with nine 381-mm guns.

The Japanese outdid everyone by building the Yamato and Musashi with nine 460-mm guns each.


What's the point? And it turned out to be a little.

Let's take a little history. And according to history, super-battleships and super-dreadnoughts did not have much to fight.

During the First World War, a single Battle of Jutland took place, in which the British took part in four ships of the Queen Elizabeth class. The German superdreadnought "Bayern" did not have time to start the battle, and the German fleet made do with old battleships.


But the German 305-mm shells flew and hit more accurately and heavier than the British 381-mm ones. Therefore, the losses were not in favor of the British. The British Navy lost 14 ships with a total tonnage of 111 tons and 000 sailors and officers killed against 6784 German ships with a total displacement of 11 tons and 62 personnel.


The debut of the superdreadnoughts was not "super".

In the Second World War, and in general, the caliber of artillery ceased to play any significant role. Of course, a projectile weighing more than 500 kg was very impressive. On paper or exercises. An aircraft carrying the same weight of bombs or a torpedo flew further and threw more accurately.

Therefore, it is not surprising that the main number of battleships and battle cruisers was lost as a result of aviation attacks, but not in any way by super-battleship shells.


There are exceptions, but they are just exceptions. The Bismarck, which sank the Hood and the Duke of York in an artillery battle, which sank the Scharnhorst. All other capital ships were lost as a result of air or submarine action. Even the sinking of the Bismarck without a torpedo that jammed the rudders seems very doubtful.


"Musashi" under attack aircraft

Moreover, battleships turned out to be very expensive toys, and many countries simply tried not to use them for their intended purpose. This also applies to the Tirpitz, which did not participate in any battle, and Japanese battleships. And still, fate overtook these super-expensive toys.


"Tirpitz" in the Norwegian fjords

And "Yamato" and "Musashi" - and in general were used once: in the battle near the island of Samar, where their shells weighing almost one and a half tons did not bring absolutely any effect.


As a result, we can say that Sir Winstron Churchill revived the activities of the leading countries of the world there in terms of creating new artillery systems, which gave rise to the emergence of new ships. The only thing that the British Minister of Marine and the future Prime Minister did not take into account was the growing power of aviation.

However, this is already such a hackneyed topic ...

The appearance of super-caliber guns 356, 381, 406 and 460 mm and, accordingly, new ships, did not bring anything new to the tactics of naval combat. The only pleasant bonus was the appearance of radars, according to which the ships could fire at night, in fog, and in rain.

But, as the practice of using artillery ships of the linear class showed, World War II completely ruled out squadron artillery combat. And the projectile really gave way to an aerial bomb and a torpedo.


I emphasize that this concerned only the class of battleships. As can be seen from the history of that war, cruisers and destroyers still staged battles, in intensity exceeding anything that happened during the First World War. Fights between Japanese and American, British and Australian cruisers and destroyers - these were very intense events of that war.

And battleships went into the background, if not into the background, and were used very sporadically. Too expensive to lose, better to regret.

The exception here is the Americans. They used battleships during operations to clear the occupied territories by the Japanese as artillery support ships for landings. And this was sometimes even more profitable than air strikes, since it did not expose the pilots to air defense fire. The battleships started first, plowing through the Japanese defenses, and then the planes flew in and finished off what was left. A very reasonable tactic aimed at minimizing losses.


In general, the class of battleships, regardless of the power of the main caliber guns, turned out to be beautiful and formidable ships in peacetime, really capable of exerting political pressure on the situation in a particular area of ​​the world.

The same Tirpitz attracted the attention and forces of the British army and navy by its very existence. And the British “exhaled” only when they finally finished off the battleship, which had not fired a single shot at enemy ships throughout the war.

The growth of the main caliber of battleships could not prevent the decline in the usefulness of these ships and eventually led to the disappearance of the class as a whole.


But you must admit that the ships were simply gorgeous in their beauty. But is the unfolding artillery arms race worth it and should we be grateful to Sir Winston for organizing all this?
120 comments
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  1. +4
    8 October 2021 18: 11
    In response, the Germans built their Derflinger-class battlecruisers, armed with 281mm guns, but more heavily armored.

    I think it's a typo. Although strange.
    1. +3
      8 October 2021 18: 26
      well, at least 283 German caliber of both world
      1. +2
        8 October 2021 19: 12
        "The eternal rivals of the British, the Germans, did not sit idly by either. They built a series of Baden-class battleships, their own superdreadnoughts of somewhat smaller displacement. (2 tons) and speed (22 knots), also armed with eight 381-mm guns"- from the text - a typo, 2500 tons - this is a destroyer, that's right - with a displacement of 25000 tons.
        1. +5
          8 October 2021 19: 28
          "German 305 mm flew and hit more accurately and heavier" is also a strong pearl laughing
          1. +3
            8 October 2021 21: 25
            Quote: Niko
            "German 305 mm flew and hit more accurately and heavier" is also a strong pearl

            more precisely, they can ... no more weighty
      2. +1
        8 October 2021 21: 05
        At 28 cm, as the Germans classified their guns, only 280 mm.
    2. +1
      9 October 2021 08: 16
      Confused Derflinger with Von Der Tann
  2. +15
    8 October 2021 18: 17
    the larger the article, the more blunders (the derflinger has caliber 305)
    1. +5
      8 October 2021 18: 24
      Removed from the tongue))) I would like to ask what the German 280 - mm. was better than the British 305 - mm., as of 1910? And what did the populist and demagogue - Churchill, understand in naval artillery?
      1. +25
        8 October 2021 18: 39
        Quote: TermNachTER
        And what did the populist and demagogue - Churchill, understand in naval artillery?

        As much as the author of this article :)
        1. -4
          8 October 2021 19: 53
          and 10 pieces of AB for 100 VI ......... Putin does not build remembering Churchill's demagoguery ... and Clemenceau

          ............... ha ha flea ... in the barrel 381mm
        2. +2
          8 October 2021 20: 21
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          As much as the author of this article :)

          I double...
          1. +1
            8 October 2021 21: 25
            Quote: Macsen_Wledig
            I double...

            triple
        3. +3
          8 October 2021 21: 47
          I strongly disagree, the author is much less laughing
      2. -1
        14 October 2021 21: 56
        Quote: TermNachTER
        I would like to ask what the German 280 - mm. was better than the British 305 - mm.

        Well, it's not like it's a secret. wink the German one was better in caliber (long barrel), higher muzzle velocity and better gunpowder. in chemistry at that time the Germans were ahead of the rest. that is, despite the fact that the Germans had 28cm against 305mm, the German guns had better characteristics and, as a result, were equal to the British 305mm, and were superior in range.
        1. 0
          14 October 2021 22: 38
          I want to note that the British also had good chemistry. A long barrel length is also not always good, internal ballistics is a rather capricious thing. British 12 - dm., 52 caliber - turned out to be very bad.
          1. 0
            15 October 2021 00: 04
            Quote: TermNachTER
            I want to note that the British also had good chemistry.

            well, how "not bad" ... enough to build dreadnoughts and better than the Japanese Yes but their armor on the KCA battleships was wink
            Quote: TermNachTER
            A long barrel length is also not always good, internal ballistics is a rather capricious thing.

            agree. but here, as it were, "you do not know how, do not take it." they did not work with electric drives either.
            Quote: TermNachTER
            British 12 - dm., 52 caliber - turned out to be very bad.

            and the Germans got it right good the fact that the British were not very good with artillery could be judged by how much they landed on Bismarck until he drowned. the Germans managed to shoot the entire BC GK and claim that they themselves drowned him when there was nothing to shoot with. But with Hood, it was completely different. and in the Battle of Jutland too. no, of course I understand that the battlecruisers were sunk not so much because the Germans have super guns and super shells, but because the LKR has no armor, but the British ammunition costs definitely indicate that the guns are mediocre, and the training of the crews is not very good, and shells with black powder as explosives bully
            1. 0
              15 October 2021 12: 26
              I don't know about the Germans. Nowhere, in trustworthy sources, did I find information about what their dispersion in a salvo was. The Italians, with close parameters, with a spread, there was just darkness, it’s good that the Mediterranean Sea is quite large.
              1. 0
                15 October 2021 14: 17
                Quote: TermNachTER
                Nowhere, in trustworthy sources, did I find information about what their dispersion in a salvo was.

                there is circumstantial evidence. there are enough clashes between the Germans and the British. there are reports about who and how many hit and from what distance. there are also reports on the spent ammunition. True, this is of course not only the quality of the guns, but also the quality of the crews. even probably the quality of the crews in the first place. the accuracy of the guns themselves is plus or minus the same, but if the crew mows down, then the accuracy of the gun will not help.
                1. 0
                  15 October 2021 15: 56
                  That's just the point, that there are many indirect factors. The quality of the PUAO, the training of the crews, the tactical literacy of the commander on the spot, the weather - the location of the sun, the strength and direction of the wind, visibility, etc. All this together significantly affects the outcome of the battle as a whole.
                  1. 0
                    15 October 2021 17: 39
                    also a share of luck as with Hood wink
                    1. 0
                      15 October 2021 19: 54
                      Yes, the factor is absolutely not scientific, but it has a place to be.
      3. 0
        12 December 2021 00: 07
        Churchill may not have understood, but he knew how to listen to those who understood, in particular Admiral Fischer.
        1. 0
          12 December 2021 11: 09
          Fischer, of course, knew a lot about artillery, at one time he was even the Controller of the fleet. But he could be wrong too.
    2. +8
      8 October 2021 18: 37
      Quote: Ryaruav
      the larger the article, the more blunders (the derflinger has caliber 305)

      In response, the Germans built their Derflinger-class battlecruisers, armed with 281-mm guns, but heavily armored. The quintessence of the class was the German Von der Tann, the best representative of this class of ships.

      It is clear that the author confused the names of the ships, but this can be understood if you know the history of the Navy, but if you don’t know? The output will be "hilarious".
      1. +16
        8 October 2021 19: 42
        the author confused "everything in the world")))) "Von der Tann" is the first German, far from the best battlecruiser. Then, like the "Derflinger", many experts in naval battles of the PVM consider one of the best in the class of battlecruisers.
        1. +5
          8 October 2021 19: 53
          Quote: TermNachTER
          the author confused "everything in the world")))) "Von der Tann" is the first German, far from the best battlecruiser. Then, like the "Derflinger", many experts in naval battles of the PVM consider one of the best in the class of battlecruisers.


          Dear Nikolay. I know what you wrote, I perfectly understand that the article is "oh-oh-oh", but if the author had not published it, what would we be discussing now. I'm used to posts like this.
          1. +6
            8 October 2021 19: 57
            No, well, maybe it’s purely neighing, then yes))) but in general, I would like to discuss (discuss) more serious things, and not the 1st grade of the parochial school))) I have been seriously interested in the history of the fleet for 30 years, now with writing , somehow it does not work)))
            1. +2
              8 October 2021 20: 02
              Quote: TermNachTER
              I have been seriously interested in the history of the fleet for 30 years, but with writing, somehow it does not work))

              The same story.
        2. +6
          8 October 2021 20: 01
          Quote: TermNachTER
          the author confused "everything in the world"

          I just "pulled" from the sites of a bunch of battleships and generalized, without going into details, without knowing the history.
      2. +3
        9 October 2021 00: 53
        Quote: 27091965i
        It is clear that the author confused the names of the ships, but this can be understood if you know the history of the Navy, but if you don’t know? The output will be "funny"

        So with the history of aviation, the author has the same problem, his knowledge on these topics is zero ...
  3. +9
    8 October 2021 18: 25
    When the era of battleships is over, all fans of the nautical theme know. It ended on April 7, 1945
    Why all of a sudden? A more suitable date is when the Japanese aircraft sank the English battleship with the LCR, or when Iowa was sent to the museum.
    And, probably, a smaller number of readers know the date of the beginning of the era of dreadnought battleships.
    Again, the Dreadnought bookmark date is more suitable here.
    But the battlecruisers did not survive the First World War and remained only in the British Navy.
    But what about Dunkirk and Scharnhorst?
    1. +5
      8 October 2021 19: 45
      And "Hood", "Ripals", "Rhinaun"? Japanese "Congo". Although the samurai retrained them into battleships, they, as they were battle cruisers, remained)))) American type "Alaska".
      1. +1
        10 October 2021 00: 11
        Quote: TermNachTER
        American type "Alaska".

        "Alaska" and "Guam" were classified not as battlecruisers, but as "Large cruisers" or "super cruisers". They, like Dunkirk with Strasbourg and the unfinished Soviet "big cruisers" of the Kronstadt type, were created as part of the concept of combating heavy cruisers in communications. Unlike classic battlecruisers as a high-speed wing in a column of battleships, reconnaissance, starting a battle or finishing off an enemy .... Well, something like this request
        1. 0
          10 October 2021 00: 14
          You can call it whatever you like. GK - 305 - mm., Like battlecruisers.
          1. 0
            10 October 2021 00: 19
            Of course, you can call it whatever you like. For example, "Kongo" can be called a battleship (which the Japanese did after two upgrades) with a GK 14 ", although it was a typical battlecruiser.
            1. 0
              10 October 2021 00: 22
              "Congo" with an armored belt of 203 - mm., I would hesitate to call a battle cruiser. Even the "Lion" - "Tiger" was 229 - mm.
              1. 0
                10 October 2021 00: 28
                For that, the Civil Code is 356 mm ... Didn't you just indicate?
                Quote: TermNachTER
                GK - 305 - mm., Like battlecruisers.
                Well, after the upgrades, the installation of boules, hanging an additional 3 "armor in the area of ​​boiler rooms, additional protection of the cellars. what
                1. 0
                  10 October 2021 00: 35
                  How does placing booleans strengthen the booking? Additional 3 - dm. against the new British 356 - mm., French 380 - mm. and American 406 - mm. - it's not even funny.
                  1. +1
                    10 October 2021 00: 44
                    Are we talking about battlecruisers, the claims to which were precisely that the characteristics of defense and attack were not balanced? And compare with full-fledged battleships? I didn't really understand what it was all about. We talked about LKR, jumped to the artillery caliber, to defend against 14", 15", 16" shells .... What is there to talk about. request
                    1. 0
                      10 October 2021 14: 35
                      So on "Hood" and "Repulse" also 380 - mm. And the article is about battleships in general, and not about a subclass of battlecruisers. Near Guadalcanal, it turned out that the "Hiei" met with the American 406 - mm.
              2. 0
                10 October 2021 08: 33
                But high speed.
                Which helped them, as well as the British "Repulse" and "Rinaut" to stay in the subject.
                In fact, the Kongos were used as heavy cruisers.
    2. +2
      8 October 2021 20: 23
      Quote: bk0010
      But what about Dunkirk and Scharnhorst?

      Battleships...
      That according to the agreements, that the classification of the countries of the designers - the rest is from the evil one.
      1. +1
        9 October 2021 23: 49
        Quote: Macsen_Wledig
        That according to the agreements, that the classification of the countries of the designers - the rest is from the evil one.

        According to the Washington and London Naval Treaty - yes. According to the designing countries, how to say ... "Dunkirk" was classified precisely as a battlecruiser, or rather a "super cruiser" - a fighter of heavy cruisers. In the performance characteristics of the task, it was said so - protection of trade in Southeast Asia and the Mediterranean, armor from 203 mm shells, and at a distance of about 100 kb and from German 283 mm shells, speed - to maintain fire contact with heavy cruisers, speed about 29-30 knots. The concentration of the main battery in the bow just corresponded to the concept of the "fighter". "Scharnhorst" and "Gneisenau" were built as an "improved" version of "Admiral Count Spee", i.e. classified as "battleships". Only in 1935, when the Versailles restrictions were denounced and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement concocted, the "battleships" "D" and "E" were relaid according to a new project and were reclassified into battleships. They carried battleship armor for themselves, but the main gun caliber remained 11 ". But the project included the replacement of 3 11" gun turrets with two-gun 15" ones like the Bismarck. Everything depended on the capabilities of the Krupp concern, which, before the return of factories from the demilitarized Rhineland region could not produce more than one barrel with a caliber of 15 "per year. In February 1942, Gneisenau was put in for repairs in Gdynia with a possible replacement of the main gun with 15", but this never happened. Scharnhorst fought until its death on December 26.12.1943, 11 with a main battery of XNUMX "
        1. 0
          10 October 2021 11: 53
          Quote: Vladislav 73
          "Dunkirk" was classified precisely as a battle cruiser, or rather a "super cruiser" - a fighter of heavy cruisers.

          Maybe, of course, I’m not good friends with French, but it’s written a little differently ...


          Quote: Vladislav 73
          "Scharnhorst" and "Gneisenau" were built as an "improved" version of "Admiral Count Spee", ie. classified as "battleships".

          At the first bookmark - yes ... :)
          And after the conclusion of the Anglo-German agreement of the 35th year, everything changed a little.


          Quote: Vladislav 73
          But the project included the replacement of 3-gun 11 "towers with two-gun 15" like the "Bismarck".

          It was not laid ... The question was purely political. Raeder was wrapped up with a proposal to put at least 3x2-355 mm.
  4. +12
    8 October 2021 18: 26


    This is not a photo of a real ship.
    1. +3
      8 October 2021 18: 39
      you're right it's more of a photo collage
    2. +14
      8 October 2021 18: 41
      This is a mock-up from the 1960 movie Sink the Bismarck.
      1. +6
        8 October 2021 21: 29
        Quote: Crowe
        This is a mock-up from the 1960 movie Sink the Bismarck.

        I like the sabaton better

        -briefly
        -impressive.
        -starts.
        I often run under it...
        or under a clone from Tapka
  5. +16
    8 October 2021 18: 28
    Maybe I did not understand something, but as for me this is a strange article, to be honest. Battleships and super battleships are a product of their time, the pinnacle of technical thought of that era. It is us, from the height of our time, having afterknowledge, that we can sit and spit on them, considering them almost useless, in the end, toys. Only then everything was completely different. And things that are obvious now might not have been obvious then.
    1. +1
      8 October 2021 23: 54
      Quote: Fanur Galiev
      Maybe I did not understand something, but as for me this is a strange article, to be honest. Battleships and super battleships are a product of their time, the pinnacle of technical thought of that era. It is us, from the height of our time, having afterknowledge, that we can sit and spit on them, considering them almost useless, in the end, toys. Only then everything was completely different. And things that are obvious now might not have been obvious then.

      Quite right. Then our descendants will laugh at us.
  6. +6
    8 October 2021 18: 32
    The most interesting thing in the history of "Yamato" is that he did not fight with classmates. The superlinkor took part in one battle in general, in the Sibuyan Sea, and did not show itself in anything like that.


    At the Shibuyan Sea, Yamato fought the US Air Force, as he did during the Okinawa cruise. The battles against the ships of the US Navy took place near the island of Samar
    1. +2
      8 October 2021 19: 48
      And why would the Americans risk their battleships + possible large losses in crews, if they could be safely sunk by aviation? "Musashi" sunk, than "Yamato" is better?
      1. 0
        8 October 2021 19: 50
        The Americans (and Admiral Spurance) wanted this, but it was Mitcher's arbitrariness that prevented the naval battle from starting.
        1. +1
          8 October 2021 20: 13
          Judging by Spruance's actions since Midway, he has been a very cautious commander. For which he was criticized both then and after the war.
      2. +2
        8 October 2021 20: 06
        Quote: TermNachTER
        And why would the Americans risk their battleships + possible large losses in crews, if they could be safely sunk by aviation? "Musashi" sunk, than "Yamato" is better?

        The Japanese also fought, they were the very first to start a war against the United States with the destruction of battleships at Pearl Harbor and British battleships at Kuantan by aviation.
        1. -1
          12 October 2021 22: 03
          Yes, the Japanese did not really drown anything there, the shatters stamped ships like pies, and the Japanese had no resources for such stamping at all from the word
  7. +2
    8 October 2021 18: 32
    When the era of battleships ended, all lovers of the marine theme know. It ended on April 7, 1945, when a column of smoke rose into the sky to a height of about 6 km, marking the end of the Yamato.

    The era of battleships ended on December 7, 1941, when the Japanese "like Tuzik a hot-water bottle" tore 4 American aircraft carriers. This was followed by confirmation when on December 10, 1941 - His Majesty's battleship Prince of Wales and battle cruiser Ripals were sunk by aircraft of the Japanese Navy.
    And not in a battle with enemy ships, they were sunk, not a single shot was fired at them, they were drowned by aircraft. And "Yamato" was the last point of this era, when bloodless Japan threw into battle everything that was left in her "gasket".
    1. +7
      8 October 2021 18: 52
      the era of battleships ended only after the shelling of Beirut, and this is while they are on conservation
      1. -1
        8 October 2021 19: 26
        Quote: Ryaruav
        the era of battleships ended only after the shelling of Beirut, and this is while they are on conservation

        This is no longer the Age of Battleships, but the era of gunboats, the era of the strong to crush the weak, the era of neo-colonialism in the heyday of its perniciousness. The battleship is at war with the battleship, and does not shoot the city, and the civilian population from the sea.
        1. +1
          9 October 2021 18: 53
          The battleship as a "battleship" will not return. But mega-long-range artillery is actually already with us again - it’s just that for now a projectile for an electromagnetic gun is expensive, but high-tech things tend to fall in price very quickly, depreciate, which any economist will confirm.
    2. +1
      8 October 2021 19: 22
      And a couple of days before that, Soviet soldiers finally tore the Barbarossa plan on the British flag))
    3. +4
      8 October 2021 21: 35
      Quote: tihonmarine
      The era of battleships ended on December 7, 1941, when the Japanese "like Tuzik a hot water bottle" tore 4 aircraft carrier the americans.

      An aircraft carrier (probably a battleship)?
      Ochipyatka?
      Three. "Utah" training and.
      So they stood, and without fighter cover, in fact
      Quote: tihonmarine
      shot, they were drowned by aircraft. And "Yamato" was the last point of this era

      And if they:
      - were they covered by aircraft from aircraft carriers? (as expected)
      That era did not have the current sea-based missiles and air defense systems.
      Maybe everything will come back.
      Modern tin cans - do not inspire confidence.
      1. +3
        9 October 2021 11: 47
        Quote: ja-ja-vw
        An aircraft carrier (probably a battleship)?

        The unclean beguiled - of course LINCORA !!!
    4. +1
      9 October 2021 08: 51
      Quote: tihonmarine
      "like Tuzik a heating pad" was torn by 4 American aircraft carriers

      This is when it was?
    5. The comment was deleted.
  8. +5
    8 October 2021 18: 39
    After that, not a single country in the world came up with the idea of ​​​​building battleships and dreadnoughts with the prefixes "over" and "super".


    This statement could be argued because of the USSR.

    Other countries, although they did not build new ships, decided to complete the built ones - for example, "Jean Bart", and the rest for some reason were not immediately removed from service.

    Their role and place in the fleet is simple
  9. +1
    8 October 2021 18: 53
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    As much as the author of this article

    The word of a husband and a seaman.
  10. +2
    8 October 2021 18: 55
    It turns out that the Soviets turned out to be the most reasonable: they changed their minds in time and did not begin to complete the construction of the huge and super-expensive Soviet Unions, but took up the Sverdlov cruisers, which were much more useful.
    1. +2
      8 October 2021 19: 09
      Although before the war in the USSR it was not possible to build battleships of project 23, after the war it was planned to build new battleships based on project 24 and even ships with 457-mm guns!

      In addition to this, by adding the "Cruiser" project 82
      1. +2
        8 October 2021 19: 22
        In this case, one can, surprisingly, thank the post-revolutionary backwardness and industrial weakness. They did not allow to fully commit one of the stupidest shipbuilding mistakes.
        1. +3
          8 October 2021 19: 25
          Rather, the decisive factor here was the death of Stalin and Khrushchev's dislike for the fleet and everything that is not missiles.

          and the super-cruiser Stalingrad, in my opinion, were of much greater value than the absolutely outdated Sverdlovs.
          1. +6
            8 October 2021 19: 34
            Quote: Constanty
            and Khrushchev's dislike for the fleet

            Yes, it's not about "love", but about the lack of sufficient education and intelligence ... Because of this, all subsequent "corn" reforms ...
          2. +1
            10 October 2021 08: 37
            More precisely, the British curators, after the assassination of Stalin and Beria, slowed down the Soviet naval policy.
            1. +1
              10 October 2021 11: 54
              Quote: ignoto
              More precisely, the British curators, after the assassination of Stalin and Beria, slowed down the Soviet naval policy.

              Where can I read about it?
    2. +2
      8 October 2021 19: 19
      cruisers of the 68 bis series are not the most useful, for this money it was possible to build so much advanced
      1. +2
        8 October 2021 21: 58
        They built what had been developed before the war. They made adjustments to the projects and launched them into series, it was necessary to urgently restore the ship's composition. The destroyers of the project 30 are also pre-war development, with the changes they went into series as 30bis.
      2. +2
        8 October 2021 23: 52
        Quote: Ryaruav
        cruisers of the 68 bis series are not the most useful, for this money it was possible to build so much advanced

        What was better at the time?
  11. +6
    8 October 2021 19: 02
    I read it to the end with the confidence of the authorship of Oleg Kaptsov ... I'm getting old !!!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  12. +9
    8 October 2021 19: 07
    In response, the Germans built their Derflinger-class battlecruisers, armed with 281-mm guns, but heavily armored. The quintessence of the class was the German Von der Tann, the best representative of this class of ships.


    This is utter nonsense.

    The Von der Tann was not only the first weakest battle cruiser in Germany, but the Derflingers, being the best battle cruisers of the First World War, were armed with 305 mm guns.

    The author is known for his sloppy approach to facts and copying other articles, but he is clearly having a very bad day right now. The longer I read, the more blatant mistakes I get!
    1. +7
      8 October 2021 19: 50
      To put it mildly, the article is bullshit))) the author pulled information from "Wikipedia", somehow "blinded to a heap" and presented it as the ultimate truth)))
    2. +2
      8 October 2021 20: 13
      Quote: Constanty
      but now he was clearly having a very bad day. The more I read, the more egregious mistakes!

      In addition to errors, the very assessment of views on battleships of the WWII era is also very inaccurate.
  13. +10
    8 October 2021 19: 17
    But the battlecruisers did not survive the First World War and remained only in the British Navy.

    "Kongo" "Haruna" "Hiei" "Kirishima", "Yavuz Sultan Selim" disagree with this statement
  14. +4
    8 October 2021 19: 23
    Thanks to Roman for the article, but you can make small additions:
    When the era of battleships ended, all lovers of the marine theme know. It ended on April 7, 1945, when a column of smoke rose into the sky to a height of about 6 km, marking the end of the Yamato ...

    It ended on March 31, 1992, when the battleship Missouri was decommissioned...
    The eternal rivals of the British, the Germans, also did not sit idly by. They built a series of Baden-class battleships, their own superdreadnoughts of somewhat smaller displacement (2 tons) and speed (500 knots), also armed with eight 22-mm guns.

    The total displacement of Baden-class battleships was 32125 tons, armed with 8 (4 × 2) 380 mm/45 "38 cm SK L/45"
    But the battlecruisers did not survive the First World War and remained only in the British Navy.

    German Heisenau can be attributed to the last battle cruiser, in 1938. Objectively, he did not pull on the battleship ...
    Considering that the Furies' two single-gun turrets could fire once per minute each, the side volley was small.

    457 mm. The BL 18-inch Mark I were very good, too good for the Furious‍ hull, which was simply too weak for such powerful guns ...
    The United Kingdom suffered the most from the treaty.

    Most of all, in my opinion, everyone suffered, except for the cunning United States. Without that treaty, Chponia and Britain could put into operation more powerful battleships and dominate the world (despite the fact that at that time they had signed a mutual assistance treaty). The United States understood that the union of Britain and Japan was a real threat to their pestilence dominance, and brilliantly carried out this action ...
    Germans "Bismarck" and "Tirpitz" with eight 381-mm guns

    380 mm. SK/C34.
    Therefore, it is not surprising that the majority of battleships and battle cruisers were lost as a result of air attacks.

    Of the 7 Japanese battleships destroyed by the Americans, only 3 were killed by carrier-based aircraft. Of the two battleships destroyed by Britain 1 to 1, and only both battleships destroyed by Japan, carrier-based aircraft distinguished themselves. So it's not all clear...
    1. +3
      8 October 2021 23: 50
      The Japanese Congo is also not a battleship, but a battlecruiser. The author does not know the topic and is trying to pull the owl on the globe. Coming up with some of his own conjectures and interpreting what he heard out of the corner of his ear somewhere.
    2. +1
      10 October 2021 08: 47
      Great Britain was already weary of an alliance with Japan.
      Japan grown from scratch (precisely from scratch, since the entire ancient history of Japan is fake and written off from English history) has already fulfilled its mission: it allowed to break the alliance between Russia and Germany, and then it only interfered.
      The real adversary of Great Britain is the United States, with which Great Britain could not compete in fair combat, and therefore a treaty on the limitation of naval weapons was needed.
      In general, during WWI, Britain has already overstrained itself.
      Studies after WWII, or rather an audit, honest and for their own, showed that the British Empire was a completely unprofitable enterprise. More was invested in the colonies than received from them.
      A similar situation was with the French colonial empire.
      Only the Americans found a way out of this situation. passing to neo-colonialism.
  15. +6
    8 October 2021 19: 30
    By the way, the Americans were the first to start using three-gun turrets. The Nevada had two three-gun turrets and two two-gun turrets.


    Every paragraph is a compromising error.

    Apparently, the author has not heard of ships like "Tegetthoff" or "Dante Alighieri". request
  16. +3
    8 October 2021 19: 43
    All other capital ships were lost as a result of air or submarine action.


    I would add "Kirishime" ""Bretagne"
  17. +8
    8 October 2021 20: 38
    The 406-mm gun, copied from the product of the British company "Vickers", also remained in the project.
    Only exactly the opposite. The gun was developed by the Obukhov plant and after the WWII, the Britons made their 406 mm guns for the Nelson based on it. The author is better to write to Popular Mechanics, they love such verbiage as yours. Whatever the article, the anecdote.
    1. +1
      10 October 2021 08: 51
      But wasn't the Nelson's gun made according to the wire technology traditional for the British?
      If I am not mistaken, the British made the first large-caliber gun using the so-called "German" technology, that is, bonding with cylinders, for the King George V-class battleships.
  18. +7
    8 October 2021 20: 45
    World War II completely ruled out squadron artillery combat

    Tell the Fuso and Yamashiro teams that came under fire from battleships about this
    Oldendorf in the Surigao Strait.
  19. +4
    8 October 2021 20: 53
    type "Baden", armed with eight guns 381-mm.
    The German guns fired further than the British, at 37 km.

    Roma needs to be cut down on the sturgeon, the offshore installations had an elevation angle of 20 ° and fired at 23000m.
    Therefore, it is not surprising that the main number of battleships and battle cruisers was lost as a result of aviation attacks, but not in any way by super-battleship shells.
    There are exceptions, but they are exactly what the exceptions are. The Bismarck, which sank the Hood and the Duke of York in an artillery battle, and the Scharnhorst.

    And where did the "exceptions" "Brittany", "Kirishima" and "Bismarck" go?
  20. +5
    8 October 2021 23: 18
    Should I say thank you to Churchill for the super battleships?

    Stupid question. Answer: no, you don't need to say thank you to Churchill for the super battleships. Didn't even read the article.
    1. +4
      8 October 2021 23: 47
      Quote: Mole13
      Should I say thank you to Churchill for the super battleships?

      Stupid question. Answer: no, you don't need to say thank you to Churchill for the super battleships. Didn't even read the article.

      Same thing, I read the first paragraph and that's it.
  21. +6
    8 October 2021 23: 46
    So many mistakes, what a hodgepodge of everything and everything. Especially delivered at the beginning
    And, probably, a smaller number of readers know the date of the beginning of the era of dreadnought battleships. She, the date, is highly controversial. For the starting point, you can take the laying or launching of the first Queen Elizabeth superdreadnought, for example. But I would prefer another date: October 23, 1911. It was on this day that British Prime Minister Herbert Henry Asquith replaced the First Lord of the Admiralty (analogous to the Secretary of the Navy) Reginald McKenna to Winston Churchill.
    The beginning of the era of dreadnoughts, this is the descent of the Dreadnought itself, and what does Queen Elizabeth have to do with it? And "Superdreadnoughts" are Iron Duke class battleships. The author is probably not in the subject?
  22. +7
    9 October 2021 03: 23
    In this opus errors and blunders are generously scattered.
    Since we are not talking about higher matters, but about mundane things, there is a reasonable suspicion that this was done intentionally. The goal is prosaic and visible to the naked eye - to provoke readers to refute all this rubbish in order to increase the number of "clicks". Everyone earns the best they can.

    For example, Skomorokhov writes:
    The British entered World War I with five Queen Elizabeth-class battleships.

    And as we all know, none of the Queen Elizabeth-class superdreadnoughts was handed over to the customer as of the beginning of the First World War.
    The head entered service in December 1914, the last - "Malaya" - at the beginning 1916 Mr.

    There are exceptions, but they are just exceptions. The Bismarck, which sank the Hood and the Duke of York in an artillery battle, which sank the Scharnhorst. All other capital ships were lost as a result of air or submarine action.

    The author "forgot" that during the Catapult operation, British battleships sank the French battleship Bretagne, and the American battleships South Dakota and Washington severely damaged the Japanese battleship Kirishima, which soon sank.

    By the way, the Americans were the first to start using three-gun turrets. The Nevada had two three-gun turrets and two two-gun turrets.

    The Italian battleship "Dante Alighieri" carried four three-gun turrets. Was laid down in June 1909 was put into operation in January 1913 Mr.

    American battleship Nevada was laid down in November 1912 entered service in March 1916 Mr.
    Etc.

    PS
    It is a pity that there is no longer an opportunity to put a "minus" for the material, the author of this spam honestly deserved it.
    1. +7
      9 October 2021 04: 14
      Quote: Comrade
      It is a pity that there is no longer an opportunity to put a "minus" for the material, the author of this spam honestly deserved it.


      https://topwar.ru/about.html

      Department "Armament"

      Head of Department: Roman Skomorokhov

      Correspondent: Roman Krivov

      Reviewer: Kirill Ryabov

      Expert: Alexander Staver

      Browser: Sergey Linnik

      Reviewer: Sergey Yuferev

      Judge: Yuri Apukhtin
    2. +2
      9 October 2021 09: 42
      Quote: Comrade
      It is a pity that there is no longer an opportunity to put a "minus" for the material, the author of this spam honestly deserved it.

      But to his surprise, he got 18 pluses.
      1. +6
        9 October 2021 11: 07
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Comrade
        It is a pity that there is no longer an opportunity to put a "minus" for the material, the author of this spam honestly deserved it.

        But to his surprise, he got 18 pluses.

        There are enough lazy ignoramuses everywhere... :)
    3. 0
      10 October 2021 08: 54
      Such a literary device really exists.
      Deliberately make mistakes in order to understand how carefully and thoughtfully they read you.
      But, such a technique is effective only if there is feedback.
      1. 0
        10 October 2021 11: 56
        Quote: ignoto
        Deliberately make mistakes in order to understand how carefully and thoughtfully they read you.

        But not so massively: when the number of errors exceeds the number of facts presented ...
  23. The comment was deleted.
    1. +4
      9 October 2021 10: 36
      Quote: Victor Masyuk
      The author is illiterate both in the presentation of facts and in banal grammar.

      The head of the "Armament" department should not be distracted by such trifles lol
  24. +5
    9 October 2021 09: 11
    illiterate article
  25. +2
    9 October 2021 14: 19
    There are exceptions, but they are just exceptions. The Bismarck, which sank the Hood and the Duke of York in an artillery battle, which sank the Scharnhorst. All other capital ships were lost as a result of air or submarine action.

    Reasons for the death of battleships and battlecruisers in World War II:

    From aviation: Oklahoma, Arizona, Repulse, Prince of Wales, Hiei, Roma, Musashi, Tirpitz (finally), Yamato, Ise (although by that time he was no longer quite a battleship, but rather a semi-aircraft carrier), Haruna. Total: 11. You can add more Cavour (it was only damaged, but it never came out of repair until the end of the war). Let 12. Let's not count Yuta (was demoted to an artillery training ship), Marat (he survived), Hyuga (like Ise: half-battleship-half-aircraft carrier, also survived) and aircraft carriers laid down as battleships.

    From submarines: Royal Oak, Barham, Congo. Total 3. Sparsely.

    From surface ships: Brittany, Hood, Bismarck, Kirishima, Scharnhorst, Fuso, Yamashiro. Total: 7. And only in the case of Fuso, the case did not involve the participation of enemy battleships (there were enough destroyers). It can be argued that without aviation they would not have coped with Bismarck. But then you have to agree that without surface ships it would not have been possible to "work out" Hiei - aviation rather became the "last straw" for him. Yes, and still they finished him off. So there is a "fighting draw" between Bismarck and Hiei.

    For other reasons: Dunkirk (exploded by his own) Strasbourg, Provence (flooded by their own) Mutsu (explosion of the cellars in the parking lot), Gneisenau (flooded by his own).

    Bottom line: 12 aircraft, 6 battleships, 3 submarines, 1 destroyers, 5 non-combat ships.
    It is unlikely that the actions of battleships can be called an "exception". Solid second place.
    1. 0
      23 October 2021 00: 10
      Considering that Oklahoma, Arizona and Tirpitz died not on the move and not at all in battle, that Repulse and Prince died from ground aviation (Repulse did not have air defense), and that Yamato was subjected to such an air strike that simply will not happen again in history, and then it’s stupid to record these 6 ships in losses from aviation ...
  26. +1
    9 October 2021 16: 23
    For some reason, the author forgot the British battleships NELSON and RODNEY, with 9 406mm guns. RODNEY participated in the sinking of the BISMARKS.
  27. 0
    9 October 2021 19: 02
    Quote: sibiryouk
    For some reason, the author forgot the British battleships NELSON and RODNEY, with 9 406mm guns. RODNEY participated in the sinking of the BISMARKS.

    The author forgot a lot of things, especially what contradicts his writings.
  28. 0
    10 October 2021 19: 39
    "In response, the Germans built their Derflinger-class battlecruisers, armed with 281-mm guns, but heavily armored." - Derflinger and Lutzow were armed with 305 mm guns. "The quintessence of the class was the German Von der Tann, the best representative of this class of ships." - The best German battlecruiser was just the Derflinger, with guns in the diametrical plane, in linearly elevated towers.
  29. 0
    13 October 2021 19: 12
    What is the article about? The first superdreadnoughts were the Orions, with 13,5" guns.
    Russia could not copy anything from the English project, due to the fact that the British had wire guns, and fastened in Russia.
    At 37 km, or whatever the author wrote there, Bayern's cannons could not shoot, since their elevation angle was at first 16 and after Jutland 20 degrees. Maximum 20-23 km.
    In general, as usual, people mixed up in a bunch of horses!
  30. 0
    18 October 2021 09: 59
    One problem, the USA and Japan after 1942 are already incomparable in strength. And what would happen if it was impossible for the United States to completely win the air war over the Pacific Ocean is difficult to say, but after the exchange of carrier-based aviation, rapprochement and art. fights would be quite possible.
  31. 0
    23 October 2021 00: 03
    I must honestly admit that although I do not wish to offend the author of this article, I cannot describe it otherwise as sensibly composed, non-fantastic nonsense.
    Probably, I will read similar articles for some time, but my patience will run out - and I will have to write it myself - such as tables about the fact that 2 + 2 turns out to be just 4, and 15 * 15 - exactly 225 ...
    Readers, tell me, have you not completely lost respect for yourself because of your habitual agreement with such nonsense based on "everyone knows" and "as everyone knows"? Or are you not yet tired of hiding from a fundamental issue behind a discussion of particulars such as 6 millimeters of the Civil Code?
    As if the idea of ​​a battleship was vicious and independent of the political and economic situation ...
  32. 0
    7 November 2021 21: 52
    And the fuel and gunpowder of the Entente and the Germans were very different, and the compositions, especially the fuel mixtures of naphtha or pure oil, fuel oil in addition to coal. it became explosive, that is, not "lethal", they immediately came up with a larger diameter, and not increased the length of the barrel. By the way, how much time did it cost for the Englishman to engage in battle with the German, including the exit from the port water area if the German was already on heating. Britons beat with their minds, cardiff in their belly.
  33. 0
    15 November 2021 18: 59
    The author confuses ships, calibers and facts. In particular, the calibers and time of creation of the Derflingers and Von der Tan. However, the author does not want to make changes to the article, while deleting comments indicating illiteracy in the field of presenting facts.
    1. +1
      19 November 2021 12: 18
      Quote: Victor Masyuk
      The author confuses ships, calibers and facts. In particular, the calibers and time of creation of the Derflingers and Von der Tan. However, the author does not want to make changes to the article, while deleting comments indicating illiteracy in the field of presenting facts.


      This is, of course, a blunder of blunders - to put Von der Tan with a 280 mm main battery with thinner armor and an early production year higher than Derflinger with 305 mm main battery artillery - does the author confuse the names?

      And judging by his pearl:
      On the wave of battleship mania, the British came up with the idea of ​​another class of ships. They were called very funny: "big light cruisers." A sort of "fat-free" battlecruisers: the size of a battlecruiser, fast, practically unarmored and with powerful artillery.

      Three such ships were built. The names of those who know will cause smiles. These are "Furies", "Korejges" and "Glories"

      the author did not read or "forgot" what these three ships were preparing for - not at all for a naval battle, but for the "Baltic project"
      The debate about Repulse and Rinaun had not yet ceased, when Fisher put forward the idea of ​​building 3 more battlecruisers. Officially, the Furies, Korages and Glories appeared as "large light cruisers". When you get acquainted with their tactical and technical data, it seems that Fischer decided to bring to its logical conclusion his concept of "the main weapon is speed." Korages and Glories had a displacement of 18 tons each, Furies -600 tons, could reach speeds of up to 19 knots and had very light armor - the side belt was only 100 mm. The named ships carried only a few, but the heaviest guns: the first two had four 35 mm guns, the last was armed with one 76 mm gun! (The original version called for two 381 mm guns to be installed on the Fiories, but one of them was withdrawn by General Haig for the needs of the front). The shallow draft of these battlecruisers - no more than 456 m - allowed them to enter the coastal areas of the shallow Baltic Sea.

      C. J. Dewar, who commanded one of the monitors in this series, later recalled: “These monitors were boats of an outlandish appearance. The aforementioned had two 14-inch guns in a turret in the bow and an anti-mine attachment sticking out along the hull like crinoline frills. She protected him from a torpedo attack, but reduced the maximum speed to 6 knots. They were originally built by Lord Fisher as part of a fleet intended for operations in the Baltic Sea, but god knows what they would do there if they got there, and I doubt Fisher himself knew it. Although the Baltic Project never materialized, it is responsible for the waste of money and labor. In addition to monitors, expensive anomalies like Furies and Glories were also intended for this purpose.
      The author simply knows little on this topic and writes gag.
      1. +1
        20 November 2021 14: 45
        Actually, I didn’t write that the author was confusing the names, I generally indicated that the author confused the ships and calibers, pointing to the older Von der Tann as the pinnacle of the development of battlecruisers, instead of the Derflinger, such a pinnacle in fact actually being, and at the same time attributing the 283 mm caliber to "Derflinger" instead of "Von der Tann" and vice versa ...
  34. -1
    17 November 2021 23: 57
    Good article!
  35. 0
    19 November 2021 11: 55
    It was Churchill who came up with the idea of ​​increasing the main caliber of battleships to 381 mm.

    We say Churchill, we mean Fisher ...
    Here is what Churchill himself reflected in his memoirs on this plot:

    Judging by the further steps taken by Churchill in building up British naval power, his Naples date with Fischer was fruitful. The influence of the old admiral largely affected the naval programs of 1912–1914. Back in 1909, Fisher made a revolutionary decision to install 305 mm guns with a length of 50 calibers instead of the traditional 343 mm guns of 45 calibers on Orion-type dreadnoughts. This dramatically increased the accuracy of artillery fire, and the weight of the projectile increased by 1,5 times.

    “I immediately decided to go an order of magnitude higher,” Churchill wrote. “During the regatta, I hinted at this to Lord Fisher, and he enthusiastically began to prove: “Not less than 15 inches for battleships and battlecruisers of the new program” 59. Thus was born the idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbcreating the famous “fast division” of battleships. The new dreadnoughts of the Queen Elizabeth type, the laying of which was envisaged by the 1913 program, had outstanding tactical and technical data for those times. With a displacement of 27 tons and solid armor, they had an unusually high speed for such large ships - 500 knots. Their main artillery consisted of eight 27 mm guns placed in 381 twin turrets 4. These guns were capable of hitting a target with their 60 kg projectiles at a distance of up to 800 km.

    The Queen Elizabeth-class battleships turned out to be extremely successful. These ships have passed with honor two world wars, having served in the British navy for over 30 years. It took great courage and perseverance from Churchill to convince the government of the need for such an expensive shipbuilding program. Moreover, the Minister of Marine took it upon himself to give the order to lay down the hulls of the battleships before the new 381 mm gun passed the necessary tests. Had they failed, the entire costly program would have been a total failure.. In Churchill's own words, he was "bloody sweating" at the mere thought of it. However, the risk paid off. Thanks to Churchill's determination, Queen Elizabeth-class dreadnoughts began to enter service as early as 1915. And the participation of the "fast division" in the Battle of Jutland predetermined its outcome

    D. V. LIKHAREV
    Era of Admiral Fisher. Political biography of the reformer of the British Navy
  36. +1
    19 November 2021 12: 34
    The author would have read more on the topic of "large light cruisers" ("Furies", "Koreyges" and "Glories") their purposes, he would not have to compose.
    Maintaining close contacts with Churchill, Fisher testified along the lines they had worked out, arguing that all the ships of the 1914-1915 naval program were intended for the "Baltic project". And the term "Baltic project" itself appeared only in September 1916.

    This should always be kept in mind when using The World Crisis and Fischer's memoirs as sources for the history of this issue. In his book, Churchill gladly addresses the topic of the Baltic expedition, writing a lot about Fisher's support for it, about plans to use Russian troops as a landing force, which he himself proposed back in August 1914. At the same time, Churchill clearly imposes his version on the reader.

    Churchill, in particular, wrote: “The biographer tries his best to present him as a brilliant naval strategist and military leader. We are reminded that he (Fischer) had an excellent plan to cross the straits and break through to the Baltic with the help of the British fleet in order to gain dominance on this sea, cutting off Germany from the Scandinavian sources of raw materials and freeing the Russian armies for a landing operation near Berlin . Really, Lord Fisher often spoke and wrote about this project, and he and I began the construction of many armored flat-bottomed ships for landing troops under fire (meaning both monitors and "white elephants", which were supposed to support a hypothetical Russian landing in Pomerania). I don't believe, however, that he ever had a specific and comprehensive plan of action."
    .
    D. V. LIKHAREV
    The era of Admiral Fischer.
  37. 0
    24 November 2021 14: 58
    1. The increase in caliber has fundamentally changed the balance of power at sea and the tactics of naval combat so much that it is comparable in influence to the "revolution of aircraft carriers".
    2. More British losses at Jutland are due not to the greater strength of the German artillery fire, but to tactical reasons.
    3. Despite all the minor annoyances of the British, the heavier guns of the British did their job and the inability of the German fleet to conduct a linear battle became obvious. That is why, after Jutland, the Gochseeflotte forever stopped trying to defeat the British fleet at Der Tag, break the blockade and seize dominance at sea.
  38. kig
    0
    16 December 2021 01: 17
    And I thought it was Kaptsov.
  39. 0
    2 January 2022 20: 56
    EEE - as it were, lankors and after 45 participated in wars, albeit not with the fleet, but with the coast, but even so. And besides the British fleet after WWI, there were also battlecruisers in other countries - for example, of the Congo type. Although it was renamed the Battleship :) But this does not change the essence. Well, how to forget the battle cruisers Alaska?