Yak-152 vs UTS-800: Russia chooses "flying desk"

114

Photo: fotografersha.livejournal.com

Transition difficulties


The recent International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2021" was remembered for many novelties, but a special place in it was occupied by the UTS-800 from the Ural Plant of Civil aviation... A promising trainer aircraft can serve the armed forces well, or, as a project, it can end in nothing.

However, first things first.



Now for the initial training of Russian cadets, Austrian aircraft Diamond DA40 Diamond Star and DA42 Twin Star are used. Cars for the Ministry of Defense are produced under license at the Ural Civil Aviation Plant. As of 2021, 150 DA40 aircraft were manufactured in Russia.

After them, the pilots are trained on such machines as the famous Czechoslovak combat training aircraft L-39 Albatros and the more modern Russian Yak-130. Experts have repeatedly said that this plane is too complicated and expensive, but no one plans to abandon it. Moreover, the great potential of the vehicle allows it to be used as a light attack aircraft.


Photo: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

History Russian piston trainer aircraft of initial training, which are to be replaced by foreign ones, is no less remarkable: this is all the more important given that their fate is being decided right now.

According to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, a competition is currently being held to find a replacement for the fleet of training vehicles. Participation in it is accepted Yak-152 and UTS-800.

According to Shoigu, at least 700 well-trained graduate pilots are needed per year to effectively use the potential of existing and prospective airline complexes. For this, the material base of universities must include at least 500 modern training aircraft and two hundred helicopters.

Yak-152


Developed by the Yakovlev Design Bureau and manufactured by PJSC Irkut Corporation, the Yak-152 made its first flight on September 29, 2016, but over all these years, only three prototypes were produced.


Photo: Anna Zvereva / flickr.com

Nevertheless, at first glance, everything looks good. As part of the Yak-130 combat training complex, the Yak-152 received a cockpit information and control field that was completely unified with the Yak-130. The combined use of two machines should significantly facilitate the training of flight personnel. The Yak-152 has a tandem arrangement of crew members, the maximum take-off weight is 1480 kilograms, and the maximum speed of the Yak-152 is 500 kilometers per hour (at a cruising speed of 380 kilometers per hour).

The aircraft received an aviation 12-cylinder V-shaped diesel engine RED A03Т V12 (takeoff power is 500 horsepower) of the German company RED Aircraft. It is financed by the Russian holding Finam. On the territory of Russia, these products are assembled and serviced by the Russo-Balt company.

Yak-152 vs UTS-800: Russia chooses "flying desk"
Source: wikipedia.org

Despite attempts to establish licensed production at the Russian site and partial elimination of dependence on imports, the production of diesel engines for Yak, apparently, remains the weak point of the project. In favor of this, in particular, says the statement of the general director of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after Baranov, Mikhail Gordin.


Source: youtube.com

According to him, the Yak-152 trainer aircraft may receive a domestic engine. True, it is still considered not as a replacement for the RED engine, but as an "analogue". The specialist admits the extremely successful layout of the RED A03Т V12 and the presence of components in it that Russia does not produce. One way or another, so far all this is nothing more than plans and the subject of "separate experimental design development."

UTS-800


Difficulties with the Yak-152 diesel engine open the way for the brainchild of the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA) - the UTS-800 aircraft. It should receive the Russian VK-800S turboprop engine with a capacity of 800 horsepower. The turboprop modification was developed on the basis of the Russian gas turbine aircraft engine VK-800 manufactured by the Plant named after V.I. V. Ya. Klimov. Within the framework of the program of the Ministry of Trade and Industry of Russia, the development of the turboprop version has been carried out by UZGA since 2017.


Photo: Mikhail Zherdev

The task set for the UTS-800 is the same as for the Yak-152. But these are still completely different machines. The maximum takeoff weight of the "800" exceeds 2000 kilograms. The empty weight of the car is 1706 kilograms. The Yak-152 has a maximum take-off weight, as mentioned above, - 1480 kilograms.

The maximum horizontal flight speed of the UTS-800 is 460 kilometers per hour, and the cruising speed is 360 kilometers per hour. As a propeller, we chose a product from Aerosila, which has four blades. According to the chief designer of the UTS-800 Dmitry Tinyakov, the aircraft has two types of refueling. One is designed for aerobatics, the other acts as a multipurpose one. Depending on the type of refueling, the car is either suitable for aerobatics, or gets a longer duration in the air.


Photo: Mikhail Zherdev

According to Tinyakov, the price of the aircraft in operation will be five times lower than in the case of the Yak-130. According to various sources, it will amount to either 25 thousand rubles per flight hour, or 32. In any case, the comparison with the Yak-130 is not entirely correct: the machines are in different classes, although they are designed to solve similar problems. But if we compare the price of UTS-800 and Yak-152, then the indicators will clearly not be on the side of the first machine.

In addition, one of the complaints about the UTS-800 was that the car was a "copy" of the Austrian DART-450. But this is not entirely true. The Russian aircraft has a larger cockpit that allows the pilot to be rescued at zero altitude at zero speed, and the installation of a second seat significantly higher than the first improves visibility. In addition, the air intake on the Russian car was taken out slightly lower than in the case of the DART.

The flying man will master the road


UTS-800, with all its theoretical pluses and minuses, has never been in the sky, while the Yak has been flying for a long time (even if we are talking about a very small number of machines). If nothing changes, the Ural Civil Aviation Plant will be able to lift the UTS-800 into the sky by the end of the year. After that, the car will have a long way of testing, which the Yak has already partially passed. Serial production of the UTS-800 is scheduled for 2024.

It should also be said that the very concept of a propeller-driven trainer is sometimes criticized, since it is far from a modern fighter in terms of control, speed, maneuverability, and so on.

As an alternative, they sometimes offer a relatively inexpensive CP-10 trainer equipped with an AI-25TL turbojet engine (it is Ukrainian, so the aircraft should go into production with the Russian AL-55). The car made its first flight in 2015. One prototype has been built to date.
114 comments
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  1. -31
    9 September 2021 04: 59
    The Russian aircraft has a larger cockpit that allows the pilot to be rescued at zero altitude at zero speed,

    belay how is it to save the flyer on the ground? ...
    1. -32
      9 September 2021 05: 16
      Ahhh! !! Got it! This is when he is going to fly drunk and can be easily pulled out of the cockpit! laughing Vesch!
      good
      1. +2
        9 September 2021 15: 57
        Tell me, in the history of aviation there were cases when it was necessary to save a pilot of a SIMILAR aircraft at zero speed and zero altitude?

        Were there any cases when a cadet had to be evacuated from an aircraft standing on the ground?

        Were there cases when a piston aircraft standing on the ground was mortally dangerous for a cadet sitting in a piston aircraft?

        Or everything that is written in the quotes below is the usual verbiage and the desire to put minuses to a person who doubted the adequacy of the journalist's note.

        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        In general, for ejection seats, the requirement of "zero altitude and speed" has long been put forward and even implemented


        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Do you think that, for example, a training aircraft cannot catch fire if it fails to land?


        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Indeed, why am I, after all, only in fairy tales the lantern wedges, only in terrible dreams during a disorderly fall, the pilots cannot leave the cockpit, the engine does not fail, and so on.


        Babay Atasovich writes the case, but those who believe that ejection seats need to be urgently installed in the corn makers are minus it.

        1. +1
          11 September 2021 05: 10
          who doubted the adequacy of the journalist's note.
          Here you are a colleague Right wink For example, in the article:
          As a propeller, we chose a product from Aerosila, which has four blades.

          And I can't understand - or Skis don't go or what?
          1. +1
            15 October 2021 01: 58
            Nuuuu, the author in the study of tokma arichmetic reached 4 ... laughing 5 haven't passed yet ... request
          2. 0
            27 November 2021 14: 49
            Quote: Guru
            And I can't understand - or Skis don't go or what?

            To do this, I created a special emoticon so that they would not be banned:
            lol
        2. 0
          27 November 2021 13: 50
          Yes, that's not the point. In 93m, with this lightweight chair, one retired lieutenant colonel was worn, God forbid, Barykin, he sniffed the money and tried to stick sports on Sushka and Yak. In my opinion, they stuck a couple of dryers on the connections. Then he poked his head into the GA - on the An-2 with "chemistry", but there they sent it at once and bezpovorotno! Well, figs on the same yak-52 catapult, if the standard of leaving is 3 seconds ?? But "if the lantern gets stuck", "if the kerosene was not brought up", it is from the same epic as "the gunpowder got wet", "the hairpin hit. ... I am not offended - there are a lot of specialists here, they just smile) )))
        3. 0
          27 November 2021 14: 43
          Quote: For example
          Babay Atasovich writes the case, but those who believe that ejection seats need to be urgently installed in the corn makers are minus it.

          Thank you, of course, for your support. All these plus-minuses are on my side. The flyers will always understand me, the urya-patriots definitely not. I had fun with the "innovators" and my life lasted a bit. Good luck and health to you!
    2. +23
      9 September 2021 05: 24
      Quote: Babay Atasovich
      how is it to save the flyer on the ground?

      In general, for ejection seats, the requirement of "zero height and speed" has long been put forward and even implemented, apparently the cabin allows you to install such seats.
      1. -17
        9 September 2021 05: 32
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Quote: Babay Atasovich
        how is it to save the flyer on the ground?

        In general, for ejection seats, the requirement of "zero height and speed" has long been put forward and even implemented, apparently the cabin allows you to install such seats.

        On the piston? laughing
        1. +20
          9 September 2021 05: 36
          Quote: Babay Atasovich
          On the piston?

          Do you think that, for example, a training aircraft cannot catch fire if it fails to land?
          1. -11
            9 September 2021 05: 59
            Even in DOSAAF, before the first flight, they practice leaving for a while. On figs to weight the piston with a chair, if without it it is easy to leave the car without a stepladder and without fear of a screw ?!
            1. +22
              9 September 2021 06: 12
              Quote: Babay Atasovich
              On figs to make the piston heavier with a chair, if you can easily leave the car without it ?!
              Indeed, why am I, after all, only in fairy tales the lantern wedges, only in terrible dreams during a disorderly fall, the pilots cannot leave the cockpit, the engine does not fail, and so on. What for on KK combat aircraft are put on such a time, because for sure there are standards for leaving the cockpit.
              1. -19
                9 September 2021 06: 30
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Indeed, why am I, after all, only in fairy tales the lantern wedges, only in terrible dreams during a disorderly fall, the pilots cannot leave the cockpit, the engine does not fail, and so on.

                laughing good And also the parachute has an overlap and a break in the lines, even at the reserves! The leg of the stool breaks off! And you can die choking on a barbecue! Yes
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                What for on KK combat aircraft are put on such a time, because for sure there are standards for leaving the cockpit.

                When did they begin to put catapults on PISTON Yaks, even on combat ones ??? wassat ... I don’t follow the news at all. what
                1. +7
                  9 September 2021 06: 39
                  Quote: Babay Atasovich
                  And also the parachute has an overlap and a break in the lines, even at the reserves! The leg of the stool breaks off! And you can die choking on a barbecue!
                  More vodka to choke on and all this in a burning plane! laughing


                  Quote: Babay Atasovich
                  When did they begin to put catapults on PISTON Yaks, even on combat ones ??? wassat ... I don't follow the news at all.
                  Do not follow, exactly, but not about the Yak:

                  one of the claims to UTS-800 was that the machine is a "copy" of the Austrian DART-450. But this is not entirely true. Russian aircraft has a larger cockpit that allows the pilot to be rescued at zero altitude at zero speed, and the installation of the second seat significantly higher than the first improves, in turn, the view.
                  1. -8
                    9 September 2021 07: 15
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    The Russian aircraft has a larger cockpit, which allows the pilot to be rescued at zero altitude at zero speed, and the installation of a second seat significantly higher than the first improves, in turn, the view.

                    Glasses must be worn .... Where is the "catapult" written here?
                    1. +4
                      9 September 2021 07: 20
                      Quote: Babay Atasovich
                      Glasses must be worn .... Where is the "catapult" written here?
                      Those. Does the emphasis on the possibility of escape from the cockpit from two zeros bother you in any way?
                      Quote: Babay Atasovich
                      a cockpit that allows you to rescue the pilot at zero altitude at zero speed,
                      For some reason, it is precisely this opportunity that stands out in the article when comparing the UTS-800 with the Yak-152 and DART-450. Why is that? Is it really some kind of special stepladder?
                    2. +8
                      9 September 2021 14: 30
                      Uv. Babay Atasych, I also share your skepticism (why is there a catapult on the propeller motor?). but Vladimir 2U turned out to be right. UZGA -Tovtsy put on the UTS-800 exactly the K-93 chair (ejection lightweight K-36 L-39) what You can find out here:
                      https://aviation21.ru/uts-800-uchebno-trenirovochnyj-kompleks-pervonachalnoj-podgotovki-lyotchikov/
                      Quote from this article: "The aircraft is equipped with a bird-resistant canopy of the cockpit canopy and equipped with K-93 ejection seats that allow you to leave the aircraft in the entire range of altitudes and speeds, including on the ground."
                      I had to pretty much climb on the Internet, and here at the Zvezda Design Bureau I found something on the K-93:
                      aircraft with a speed of up to 950 km / h - K-93 (Fig. 11), lead designer VI Kiselev. In 1995 there were
                      factory tests started. State tests were carried out in 1999. At the final stage
                      state tests in the K-93 chair, an air force test paratrooper was ejected
                      I.E. Tarelkina... As a result of these works, a modern, cheap, easy-to-use and lightweight
                      ejection seat with an installation weight of 68 kg (with NAZ, oxygen and parachute systems. "Taken from here: http://physicsbooks.narod.ru/Other/Zvezda.pdf
                      PS: I personally know the tester Igor Tarelkin. At the joint training camp I changed parachutes with him. He gave me a factory commercial from "Zvezda" called "Master-Hit", and I gave him my homemade modified serial Po-16.
                      By the way, in another article I found ( https://military.wikireading.ru/53237 ) it is mentioned that especially for propeller driven (hence, low-speed lol ) on "Zvezda" the super-speed ejection system SKS-94 was developed and introduced into production. From the article: "The ejection system has passed comprehensive factory and state tests with the ejection of test parachutists V.G. Severin and I.E. Tarelkina, installed on Su-31M aircraft, and its modification SKS-94M - on Su-26, Su-29 and Su-31 aircraft. One of the planes of this type delivered abroad in Italy underwent an emergency ejection with a successful outcome, as evidenced by a letter of thanks from the surviving pilot. "
                      Why UZGA-tovtsy preferred K-93, apparently only they know.
                      For sim hi
                      1. 0
                        27 November 2021 14: 11
                        I dropped out of the forum a little with this coronavirus .... And then my friend, Alexander Shapochnikov, wound up on a turntable near Moscow. When I sent him a link to this page, he laughed for a long time. He was a member of the national team in pilot training, passed the annual “got a card for bread”. He was an aerobatic pilot from God - yak-50, yak-55, su-26 and others. So he also contemptuously treated the drying with an armchair. "Excess weight and sense by 5%" - you have to be an idiot to make the piston heavier for the sake of 1% of cases.
                2. +7
                  9 September 2021 06: 46
                  By the way, here's a very light piston for you:
                  Su-26M3 is one of the few sports aircraft equipped with a pilot ejection system [1]. Earlier Su-26 aircraft did not include it either. In the event of an emergency, the pilot has the ability to leave the aircraft using the SKS-94M ejection system.
                  1. Eug
                    +4
                    9 September 2021 07: 03
                    As Babay correctly noted, anything can happen. And the COP is definitely not superfluous, especially if there is an assault version of the UTS-800 (like Tucano).
                    1. +4
                      9 September 2021 07: 10
                      Quote: Eug
                      As Babay rightly pointed out, anything can happen.

                      Strange, Babay is actually against the COP on a light piston.
                      1. Eug
                        -3
                        9 September 2021 07: 36
                        I mean that, as for me, he draws the wrong conclusion from absolutely correct initial data - again, as for me - about the uselessness of the COP.
                      2. 0
                        27 November 2021 15: 06
                        Have you ever flown a low level piston? ... so ... for the interest of the question? At least on the An-2 2 meters above the culture?
                      3. -1
                        7 December 2021 06: 18
                        Quote: Babay Atasovich
                        Have you ever flown a low level piston? ... so ... for the interest of the question? At least on the An-2 2 meters above the culture?

                        You might think you were leaving any plane in an emergency at any altitude and speed.
                        And to leave the cockpit on their own, even with the lantern dropped (is it on the An-2? laughing ) at speeds above 300 km / h. and problematic in itself and even dangerous.
                      4. 0
                        7 December 2021 15: 59
                        There is a resettable flashlight. There is even a red stop valve. Apparently for the close-minded comedians they did it on purpose. But no catapult will help you at low level! wassat
                  2. -12
                    9 September 2021 07: 16
                    On the doge, why is it not in the series? wassat
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                    1. +2
                      10 September 2021 00: 43
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      SKS-94

                  4. 0
                    10 September 2021 00: 47
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    ejection system SKS-94M.


                    1. +1
                      10 September 2021 01: 15
                      Sorry for the duplicate, I looked request
                3. +1
                  9 September 2021 12: 33
                  That's when the number of pilots became few, and we learned to value their life, then they began to install ejection seats. Regarding zero speed, except for a flat spin, let me remind you of cases of ejection during maintenance. Either the technician screwed up (we had a case), or even the automation will fail. Not so long ago, Tu-22M3 pilots died. Bailout on the ground.
                  1. +3
                    10 September 2021 04: 08
                    Quote: URAL72
                    I will remind you of cases of bailout during service.

                    All the same, the chairs saved more than killed.
                    Quote: URAL72
                    and even the automation will fail. Not so long ago, Tu-22M3 pilots died
                    Specifically, the automatics of the chairs are very reliable, so negligence is almost always the fault of one's own or someone else's. So on the Tu-22, the main version is the erroneous inclusion of forced bailout.
            2. +3
              9 September 2021 14: 30
              What if the plane caught fire on takeoff? Or did the engine fail on takeoff?
              At one of the airshows, our pilot, at the exit from the descending figure, made a blow with the tail section of the MiG-29 on the ground. Gained an altitude of 20 meters and ejected from a burning plane. He remained alive and well. Both altitude and speed were close to zero.
            3. +1
              10 September 2021 00: 10
              Quote: Babay Atasovich
              On figs to make the piston heavier with a chair, if without it it is easy to leave the car without a stepladder and without fear of a screw ?!

              The sporting Su-26 catapult, if I'm not mistaken, weighs 15 kg.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  2. +2
    9 September 2021 05: 24
    Again, a German engine on the desk ... we don't have enough Mistrals and Siemens ... the Germans will put a pig at some point again by banning the supply of spare parts and the engines themselves.
    1. -2
      9 September 2021 05: 40
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Diamond DA40 Diamond Star

      import substitution in action ... request
    2. +15
      9 September 2021 06: 09
      The German engine was created for our money and, as stated, they have been produced (not assembled) with us since the 20th year. The creation of an "analogue" is most likely nothing more than a "russification" of REDa, those components that we do not produce and adjustment to 27V according to our standards, because it is not only present in the Yak-152 program, but also in " Altair ", for example.
      At a very "bad" end, you can install the VK-650, it will still be faster than the VK-800 from a competitor. But the competitor has one important advantage - daddy Manturov.
      1. +7
        9 September 2021 06: 50
        Quote: mark1
        as stated produced (not assembled)

        Once again I made inquiries - according to Aviaport.ru, it is still a SKD, so far I could not find direct information.
    3. +5
      9 September 2021 08: 31
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Again, a German engine on the desk ... we don't have enough Mistrals and Siemens ... the Germans will put a pig at some point again by banning the supply of spare parts and the engines themselves

      The engine was developed by a graduate of the Kazan Aviation. It produces it in Germany, assembly and service are localized here. In small quantities. He offered localization in Russia, but the small volume of production makes localization unprofitable. Will go en masse for training, light-engine and UAV, then another matter.
  3. +2
    9 September 2021 06: 09
    There is no story sadder in the world than about our light aircraft. In general, it’s not at all.
    1. +7
      9 September 2021 11: 02
      There is no story sadder in the world than about our light aircraft.


      So thoughtlessly copied the allegedly American training system.
      There, on the piston, not training, but actually prof. selection. A month of "science", two dozen flights with export flights. And the verdict - go nafig. And the enrolled are taught on the reactive training. And further by type.
      And the presence of a competition forces candidates to use their own money to learn to fly in private offices - there are more chances to get through.

      "Parta" is a machine of the SR-10 type. To replace the Czech "Elke".
      Moreover, it was developed by its own enthusiasts. Continuation of the famous Yak-30. And the fate is the same - their nafig is not needed.
      1. +5
        9 September 2021 11: 29
        Looking at this opupey with training aircraft, I do not understand at all what our military needs. So many years to train pilots, and then one thing, then another. Most likely you need a mind.
        1. +7
          9 September 2021 11: 46
          So many years to train pilots, and then one thing, then another. Most likely you need a mind.


          This is the result of an unnatural mixture of the new capitalist order with the old school of training from the USSR. In everything, not only in the training of pilots. There are well-functioning mechanisms for selecting both "for money" and talented children. Moreover, it is quite tough on state education - a preliminary contract with compensation for losses if he is going to fade.
          And the separation of the functions of a private teaching office and a public one, which checks the quality of graduates. They pay for tuition, but a diploma (or rather a license, it is more important) cannot be bought - surprising, but true.
      2. -1
        9 September 2021 12: 19
        Quote: dauria
        So thoughtlessly copied the allegedly American training system ...
        And the presence of a competition makes candidates use their own money to learn to fly in private offices.

        If copied, then not to the end - the cat cried out of private offices
  4. +24
    9 September 2021 06: 12
    As a propeller, we chose a product from Aerosila, which has four blades.


    Does the author have vision problems or arithmetic problems?
    1. +9
      9 September 2021 06: 26
      For the localized version of the L-410UVP-E20 aircraft, Aerosila developed a new five-bladed AV-410 propeller. For the UTS-800 this propeller was adapted, and to ensure compliance with the required thrust characteristics, the number of blades was reduced to four while maintaining the profile and design blades, propeller control systems and hub designs .... At the same time, the UTS-800 prototype, which was presented as part of the static exposition of the Army-2021 forum - in the photo in the title of the article - is equipped with a five-blade propeller, from which you can make the conclusion that there is no final decision on the appearance of the power plant yet.
      1. +9
        9 September 2021 06: 34
        I quoted from the above article. And you are citing information from a third source. If the author used the same quotes as you, then the number of blades and photos coincided. But the author is a writer. He doesn't even read his own articles before publishing.
        1. +8
          9 September 2021 06: 42
          Well, excuse me, for some reason I decided that you were interested in the reason for the mismatch.
    2. +9
      9 September 2021 06: 34
      Fifth - spare laughing
      1. +1
        9 September 2021 07: 06
        Precisely, to whack the author on the back of the neck to learn how to count. laughing laughing
    3. +1
      9 September 2021 06: 36
      Quote: Nafanya from the couch
      Does the author have vision problems or arithmetic problems?

      Most likely the author and not the author at all.
      And I used text from other sources.
      And I was too lazy to double-check.
      It has been said that time is money.

      And you are fussy.
      Could have "not noticed"
      Well, think about it, a blade is larger - a blade is smaller wink
      1. +8
        9 September 2021 06: 49
        And you are fussy.
        Could have "not noticed"
        Well, think about it, a blade is larger - a blade is smaller

        I am old. And when I read such articles, at first I think about myself: either I see poorly, or I think poorly. Then I rejoice. No, not yet me. drinks
    4. -1
      9 September 2021 06: 36
      This is a photo montage Yes
    5. 0
      9 September 2021 07: 14
      Does the author have vision problems or arithmetic problems?
      One spare blade wassat
      1. +5
        9 September 2021 08: 04
        Quote: abrakadabre
        One spare blade

        Do not confuse people, it should then be small and orange!
    6. +4
      9 September 2021 08: 04
      Here is the installed screw and the power plant from the L-410. Look at the screw, see the sealed areas with gray tape? Below them is the logo of the Czech Aero.
    7. The comment was deleted.
    8. +1
      10 September 2021 00: 14
      I wanted to publish it right away! But I preferred to read the comments! And he was right!
  5. +8
    9 September 2021 06: 16
    Is it difficult to open a new department at MAI, piston engines? And finally, learn how to build modern piston engines! And for cars as well! Turbines are much more complicated, and space ones too, and after all, we are doing better, or almost better, than everyone else. It's like a walking lesson, and now we will never catch up?
    1. -6
      9 September 2021 06: 35
      Not difficult, but ... expensive. Well, you need money somewhere from the "rolled rollback" and a new scheme to come up with, work out ...
    2. +1
      9 September 2021 11: 28
      Is it difficult to open a new department at MAI, piston engines? And finally, learn how to build modern piston engines! And for cars as well! Turbines are much more complicated, and space ones too, and after all, we are doing better, or almost better, than everyone else.

      Our enemies are hefty cunning, and in all strategic areas (machine tools, electronics, motor construction) they put a spoke in the wheels sparing no money. And their lobby is almost absolute.
    3. +1
      9 September 2021 12: 11
      You can stupidly buy a license for an engine ........ this is not a scramjet engine ..... you can adapt a car engine ..... there are many options, but it is better to master the money and take them offshore. Here KAMAZ approached the issue of the new K5 as pragmatically as possible. There is a result. Both the tractor and the new diesel engine 400-750hp ..
  6. Eug
    +1
    9 September 2021 07: 15
    One sees a line of aircraft with VK-800S - training and combat aircraft of the Tucano type, for local airlines of the Baikal type - with one engine, of the L-x10 type - with two. Training in this case - initial training at the TCB, advanced - at the Yak-130, then "fine-tuning" in Lipetsk. Fighting pilots should come to the regiments. Leave the pistons to flying clubs (with a domestic engine) and private traders (an engine of your choice).
  7. 0
    9 September 2021 08: 14
    The Russian aircraft has a larger cockpit, which allows the pilot to be rescued at zero altitude at zero speed, and the installation of a second seat significantly higher than the first improves visibility. In addition, the air intake on the Russian car was taken out slightly lower than in the case of the DART.


    This is just localization. The larger cabin is:
    - So that instead of compact Martin-Baker, we can shove in domestic catapults.
    - To meet the requirements for visibility.

    The air intake generally comes out from the power one, which has a small Ukrainian engine and a DART propeller from the MC, and here is a huge (by the standards of the TCB) gluttonous monster.
  8. +1
    9 September 2021 08: 59
    The situation with TCB is complicated. To be immune to sanctions (and also to provide as many related jobs as possible), it must be domestic to the last screw. And also a good TCB should be a training one only formally, its true role is a light bomber. Like Tucano. This opens up the possibility of exporting it, bypassing all weapons restrictions.
    1. +6
      9 September 2021 09: 25
      No. Tucano he is alone and thanks to the lobby, as well as inclusion in the American assistance program (when the United States pays for the plane / gives credit guarantees - and supplies it to allies, important countries for the United States) - he feels so good.

      At the same time, as a TCB, he is so-so. Expensive, because the engine for 1600 forces, many systems that are superfluous on the TCB. The Divine 9ka from Pilatus has diverged three times more than Tucano.


      The Koreans have a cool plane, though not new. They are now riveted in Peru under license.



      If you take a drummer, then you need a more powerful engine. For example, a Turk also has 1500 forces (let me remind you that the VK-800 has 800 takeoff forces). This time. The two need light, manageable ASPs. Again, if you take a Turk:
      - this is UMTAS as on Bayraktars, Anki and other UAVs.
      - this is Cyrit, controlled by the NARs turning on the mark.
      - these are gliding bombs of the KGK-82 type, which can fly over 40 km from such an aircraft.
      - cheap beam bombs like MAM.
      This is not an attack aircraft like the Il-2. This is actually the same UAV now, which loiters in the square for a long time and, outside the threat of the MZA, delivers pinpoint strikes, directs other forces. Therefore, we need an ASP + a powerful multi-mode optical station.
      1. +3
        9 September 2021 11: 07
        In reality, if you bother with an attack aircraft, then you need unification with attack helicopters in terms of weapons, systems and .... theater of operations. One TV3-117, the weight can always be increased with fuel or armor.
        1. 0
          9 September 2021 21: 19
          2500hp this is overkill for TCB. A pair of VK-800 is optimal.
          1. 0
            10 September 2021 09: 20
            Quite successful WWII aircraft had a piston engine power of 2-2,5 tp.
            1. +1
              10 September 2021 09: 58
              I doubt the WWII piston litak dog dumps will be revived, where power is needed. Now their destiny is to bomb the guerrillas and teach young people.
              1. 0
                10 September 2021 10: 01
                I'm talking about shock options ..... Il10, FV190, Douglas A-1 Skyraider 2700 hp. Attack aircraft, and the theater is smaller and lighter and not much different in size from the VK800 ...
                1. +1
                  10 September 2021 11: 12
                  There probably won't be any IL-10. Donbas and Karabakh showed it. VK800 is a theater, isn't it?
                  1. 0
                    10 September 2021 11: 14
                    Yes ... I'm talking about the fact that the size / power of TVLs are not so different as piston ones .... 2000os and more piston ones are already monsters of 36 liters in volume
                  2. 0
                    13 September 2021 11: 59
                    Attack helicopters are now receiving "long-range" weapons ...
                    1. 0
                      13 September 2021 13: 04
                      Well, stupid Americans. Expensive high-precision ASPs are ordered. Or Norden aka Hephaestus could have taken and throw cast iron over the slippers.
                      1. 0
                        13 September 2021 13: 12
                        Everyone's income is different ..... Take the war in Syria .... what targets there require precision bombs and missiles? Units ..... and in Afghanistan? 90% of targets in Syria would be completely solved by theater attack aircraft ...
                      2. 0
                        13 September 2021 13: 25
                        I doubt that Hephaestus is analogous in accuracy to the same Spike. Collateral losses and all that
                      3. 0
                        13 September 2021 13: 56
                        Of course not ..... but if the goal is a building. and you need 100kg / 250/500 explosives ?! or an accumulation of fuel trucks. Moreover, all reconnaissance and control comes from the UAV.
      2. 0
        9 September 2021 11: 10
        Isn't it better to place all this sighting stuff in the ventral container? And the plane itself will be an ordinary cheap carrier.
        1. +3
          9 September 2021 12: 32
          It is possible, but there is no escape from a powerful engine, if we are talking about a shock-reconnaissance-patrolling anti-partisan aircraft. This, in turn, dramatically increases the cost of a flight hour, which is bad for TCB. Two engines are also not cheap to make (such as TCB - 800 and attack aircraft 2200-2400 if you start from the real capabilities of the minders). For this will pull the fuel system, the power set (for the 2200-2400 engine will tear the frame designed for 800), the miscalculation of the aerodynamics, different contours.

          Well, and most importantly, is it necessary? It's just that the Tucano market has already been mastered by Tucano and it will be difficult to get in there. The second problem is the large and large role of the UAV. By the time there is a platform (that is, a shock-reconnaissance-patrolling anti-guerrilla aircraft), the drones will jump for another generation.
        2. 0
          10 September 2021 10: 02
          Tucano has it ...
  9. 0
    9 September 2021 09: 30
    UTS-800 has a five-bladed propeller, not a four-bladed one. Is it hard to count?
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. +1
    9 September 2021 10: 29
    In the 80s, in flight schools, cadets began to fly on L 29/39, then for a moment 21u, and in Chernigov and for a moment 23ub.yak 18/52 flew in DOSAAF and GA schools, so why do we need a propeller-driven trainer now ??
    1. 0
      9 September 2021 10: 53
      And if you look at the civil aviation students as well?
      1. 0
        9 September 2021 11: 01
        Here we are talking about TCB for the Air Force. Civil Aviation School and so they began to fly on diamonds. By the way, where did the yak 112, yak 58, or 103 go? Did they die without getting on the wing?
        1. 0
          9 September 2021 11: 03
          Well, is it logical to make one TCB? ...... There is still no engine ...
          1. 0
            9 September 2021 11: 11
            The Yak 58 had a domestic engine
            1. 0
              9 September 2021 11: 13
              And on La 5 there was a domestic engine ..... there are some requirements for weight, resource, power, ecology ........ The USSR and the Russian Federation are not strong in piston engines for aircraft.
              1. +3
                9 September 2021 11: 37
                All our motors from the Second World War are pedigree from beyond the hill. Shvetsovskie Ash-development of the Wright cyclone, Klimovsky VK (105/107-French Spanish suzy. Then they were able to copy and improve and master it in a series. But now they are not able to? And it is not necessary to talk about dashing 90. and lack of cadres. no main thing - political will!
                1. 0
                  9 September 2021 11: 46
                  They were not copied, but a license was bought ... these are different things. And even with all this, they could not achieve a resource like the original. Neither Li2, Tu4 La5, etc. Americans with star-shaped engines flew until the 80s ... and attack aircraft regularly bombed the entire Vietnamese.
              2. 0
                10 September 2021 11: 21
                Quote: Zaurbek
                And on La 5 there was a domestic engine ..... there are some requirements for weight, resource, power, ecology ........ The USSR and the Russian Federation are not strong in piston engines for aircraft.


                Well, if you consider the crankcase your own, and so the CPG is completely Wright's.
                1. 0
                  10 September 2021 11: 50
                  It was bought on a lease there. But we have never reached the resource of the American Wright Cyclone.
                  1. 0
                    10 September 2021 12: 11
                    Quote: Zaurbek
                    It was bought on a lease there. But we have never reached the resource of the American Wright Cyclone.


                    The ASh-82T reached 800 hours of flight time before the assembly - my father flew the Il-12 Il-14 on which these engines were installed. But the reliability lagged behind the American ones - no doubt about it.
                    By the way, American double "stars" also had problems with resource and premature CPG production - they worked for a long time on the composition of the oil so that it would not coke at high temperatures.
                    And the production culture in the USA was high and the quality and reliability of the engines were undeniably better.
                    1. 0
                      10 September 2021 13: 42
                      Moreover, the reliability lagged behind the American times of WWII ...
                      1. 0
                        13 September 2021 12: 01
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        Moreover, the reliability lagged behind the American times of WWII ...


                        An illustrative episode is Stalin's flight to the Tehran conference.
                        For the leader, they chose brand new American-made C-47s, although a licensed Li-2 with licensed rights was produced in the country.
                        Which is better than any words, it shows that no one in the leadership and the Air Force experienced delusions about domestic technology and engine building.
                      2. 0
                        13 September 2021 12: 09
                        There was also an article about after the Second World War, service in the air defense La 7 or La11 ..... two years and all the resource came to "O". Aerocobras were specially left for air defense.
                      3. 0
                        13 September 2021 12: 14
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        There was also an article about after the Second World War, service in the air defense La 7 or La11 ..... two years and all the resource came to "O". Aerocobras were specially left for air defense.


                        La-7 had "tails falling off" - half a year a set of moisture, decay, loss of strength.
                        Veneer layering.
                        Delta wood - requires storage in a hangar, but here field airfields - La-7 were decommissioned very quickly for this reason.
                        Well, for another year they fought with the stepped development of cylinders in the M-82FN - there is a detailed article on this topic.
  12. +1
    9 September 2021 10: 50
    As far as I read: YAK130 - can save the resource of combat Su and MiGs and is suitable for imitating large ones. And pilots in the routine can train on the Yak ... that's why it's expensive.
  13. 0
    9 September 2021 11: 04
    On the Yak18, they are still testing a gasoline V12 4turbo 6,6L from Aurus; they want to create an aviation version.
  14. +2
    9 September 2021 12: 04
    This is how we degraded, that we cannot create an engine and a fighter of the La-5FN type.
    1. 0
      9 September 2021 12: 15
      In fact, they did not degrade ..... competencies at the same level and remained ... The USSR switched to theater of operations and "forgetting" about the piston and they were made without much progress for An and Yak .....
    2. +1
      9 September 2021 19: 53
      The relevant leaders have degraded, morally ... Austrian aircraft are released under license, and the Yak-152 has been pushed further ... Budget money is deposited into their accounts in Austrian banks, as an official kickback. Previously, such "enemies of the people" were called, but now "effective managers" ...
      1. 0
        10 September 2021 10: 04
        In 1991, domestic design bureaus lost a buyer in the form of the Ministry and Aeroflot .... abruptly. It is quite logical.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. 0
    10 September 2021 10: 24
    The build quality can be seen in the last photo. Aerodynamics will be ATAS.
  17. 0
    10 September 2021 10: 45
    An old song: the glider would have been done with a bang, but with the motors a complete Zopa, denyushki sawing, and things are still there. Hayali at one time AI-450, he flies at least ...
  18. 0
    10 September 2021 11: 20
    UTS-800 is a turboprop, in contrast to the piston Yak-152.
    The service life of a turboprop aircraft is several times less than a piston aircraft, maintenance is more expensive and more complicated, and the qualifications of those personnel are more demanding.
    While the Yak-152 service intervals are many times longer, the operation is cheaper, the resource is higher.
    Fuel economy (RED uses aviation kerosene) - not comparable.

    The problems with the RED engine are far-fetched - the owner (a former Russian engineer, financing the FINAM investment holding) agrees to localization.
    All problems are contrived!
    The UTS-800 is only better in thrust-to-weight ratio than the Yak-152, it loses to everyone else, by the peculiarity of the cost of an hour of operation.
    1. 0
      10 September 2021 11: 54
      Not everything is so bad ..... the economy has long ago put all the engines in their places. Due to progress, the segments are changing: the turbojet engine presses from above on the turbine engine, and the turbine engine on the piston internal combustion engines. The lot of the Piston is small aircraft for private traders for whom the service of a jet engine is expensive ..... the border between the internal combustion engine and the theater is at the 500-800 hp border above the theater of operations dominates in all indicators
  19. -1
    10 September 2021 16: 08
    I don't understand what the Yak-130 has to do with these almost sporty propeller-driven aircraft? And why constantly negotiate its purchase value and cost of ownership? Incomparable machines in terms of training for combat pilots. First of all, the onboard equipment and avionics of the Yak-130 can "simulate" the behavior of various real combat aircraft (roughly speaking, by changing presets in the onboard computer). He was sharpening exactly for this. From here and the price.
    With regards to his role as an attack aircraft, this is nothing more than a free bonus for an aircraft on which one learns, among other things, to work with real weapons at training ranges.
    What will they not write, just to cut down the cabbage, for an extra printed sign ...)))
  20. 0
    14 September 2021 12: 29
    It is clear that the military will be behind an airplane with a theater of operations.
  21. 0
    25 October 2021 21: 18
    It's all about the engine, you need to stupidly copy the piston Lycoming or Continental, the PT6 turbine. Everything is cheaper and faster than it is to squirm. And how many excellent airplanes for these engines have been designed and it is also possible to quickly establish construction. No, everyone is wise, this is the answer to all the sanctions, we will not sell, we will steal.
  22. 0
    17 August 2023 21: 36
    The new Ural aircraft is being prepared for the first flight of the UTS-800. What is especially important: the UTS-800 will have a domestic VK-800PS engine, which is very timely. The machine will be significantly larger (one and a half times) than the Yak-152, which means it will have great opportunities for modernization, and therefore better prospects, there will be more use cases. It is possible that the operation of the UTS-800 will be somewhat more expensive (although the helicopter pilots did not complain about their turboprop engines), but the promising design redeems this. https://www.zhukvesti.ru/articles/detail/46951/ Not everything is as bleak as it seems to others.